And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.
We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.
There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.
First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.
There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
The other thing about Buddhism. Unlike most other religions it doesn't encourage anyone to actively say they are one. There is no confirmation or baptism or ceremony. You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist. Following the perfection of Moral Discipline. Which is a pretty high bar. I had to give it serious thought before answering
yes on the census. Not lying is part of the criteria for inclusion. And I go to 2-3 meditation/prayer
sessions a week.
One wonders how Suella Braverman qualifies.
Well quite Ask the Triratnas. Lineage.
She sure seems to be building up a lot of bad Karma!
She could be purifying her bad karma right now. I am not a Buddha so can't know. Which makes it tricky. She could also be a Buddha teaching us patient acceptance of course
There must be a few Buddhists out there as they are building a temple (albeit rather slowly) here in the Flatlands...
I find the idea that being a Buddhist makes you morally superior interesting.
Given the historical record of peoples and countries where Buddhism is a major religion.
The belief in its nobility seems to one of those occasions where Westerners find something foreign and declare it superior, just because it is different. And fail to notice that it is just the same.
Scenes. In spite of all careful precautions, the First Minister has been accidentally exposed to some freedom of speech. Heads will surely roll. (If nobody's yet sent that heckler a crate of whatever her favourite tipple is, do please send me her details 🍾🔥🎉)[VIDEO]
And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.
We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.
There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.
First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.
There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to
me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
Isn’t the old adage that the Church of England is for Christians that don’t believe in god?
Not all of the CoE but the Sea of Faith movement fits the bill in someways:
Off topic (thank christ!), at least some of all that money that Zuckerberg is spending on the metaverse is teaching AI to play Diplomacy, quite well by the sound of things…
I'm willing to bet she will now face a torrent of abuse for being 'a coconut, an apologist for slaving, anti-trans,' etc etc.
Which will rather prove her point...
The bowlerising of authors will have an effect that the “cleansers” don’t seem to have considered. I previously mentioned that I’ve met people who are quite adamant that Kipling wasn’t racist - because the hard core racist works are no longer published.
EDIT: just imagine a version of the Cornerstone Speech, with the racist pro-slavery stuff taken out. That’s exactly what the Lost Cause low key racists want….
Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....
You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
Quite. If the stories are even half true, the ‘golden generation’ that humbled Germany 5-1 and was destined to never reach past a quarter final, was accustomed to fighting like rats in a sack, and split down club lines. The current bunch all seem to get on. Makes a huge difference.
Therein lies the vast majority of the battle. Management is about getting a bunch of disparate characters to co-operate rather than feud.
Player feuds are the achillies heel of the Netherlands and Belgium. Spain seems to have finally shed them, after years of undrperformance.
The greatness of the 2016 Leicester City team was it's team ethos. The team was far greater than the sum of its parts.
But not a patch on what Cloughie got out of a team featuring Larry Lloyd, Peter Withe, Kenny Burns....
For some reason you seem to have forgotten those 70's footballing nobodies: Peter Shilton, Archie Gemmil and Martin O'Neill from that team.
You also missed off John Robertson, arguably the most brilliant player in that team. He looked quite lumbering, but I have never watched anyone remotely as good at dribbling the ball. It was like his boots were made of chewing gum, such was the way he kept control.
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
I'm willing to bet she will now face a torrent of abuse for being 'a coconut, an apologist for slaving, anti-trans,' etc etc.
Which will rather prove her point...
Given who are praising it, I’d say that’s a dead cert.
Don’t forget to tune into @BBCRadio4 at 9am GMT today, to hear Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie @ChimamandaReal give the first Reith lecture, on freedom of speech. I was very lucky to hear her recording it. It’s brilliant amd so is she - you do not want to miss.
And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.
We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.
There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.
First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.
There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to
me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
Isn’t the old adage that the Church of England is for Christians that don’t believe in god?
Not all of the CoE but the Sea of Faith movement fits the bill in someways:
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
She is utterly brilliant. Half of a Yellow Sun is probably the best book I've read in the last decade, haunting, beautifully written and completely heartbreaking. I think she has a lot of very intelligent things to say on this and other subjects and is always worth listening to.
And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.
We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.
There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.
First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.
There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to
me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
Isn’t the old adage that the Church of England is for Christians that don’t believe in god?
Not all of the CoE but the Sea of Faith movement fits the bill in someways:
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
Her short stories in "The thing around your neck" are a good place to start, especially "Jumping Monkey Hill"
There are some great writers coming out of Africa nowadays, but she is particularly strong.
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
The descendants of those Eastern Europeans will become white British pretty quickly.
The descendents of immigrants tend to get assimilated into the native population eventually. Lots of "white British" people have non-British ancestry from past immigration and imperial adventures. My wife's family are Sri Lankan but one of our children could already "pass" as white and I imagine all of our children's children would be able to if they marry white people as, statistically, they are likely to. Not that we would encourage them to ditch their heritage.
Two crypto industry leaders die and they ask was I behind it?
The death of a Russian billionaire in a helicopter crash in Monaco has prompted speculation over possible sabotage after the sudden deaths of two other cryptocurrency industry leaders in the past month.
Vyacheslav Taran, 53, was killed when the helicopter he had chartered to fly him from Lausanne hit a French hillside overlooking the Mediterranean at Villefranche-sur-Mer as it was making its approach to the Monaco heliport. The 35-year-old pilot of the Monacair H-130 helicopter, the only other person on board, was also killed in the crash early last Friday afternoon.
The pilot, who was said by his employers to be an experienced local man, had not reported an emergency and there was no indication of what had caused the aircraft to hit the hillside as it descended in good visibility after the 90-minute flight. A second passenger had been due to board the helicopter, an almost new machine, but cancelled shortly before it took off...
...Last month Nikolai Mushegian, 29, the crypto-entrepreneur behind the MakerDAO project, drowned in Puerto Rico. He had tweeted that he feared that the CIA, Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service and “paedophiles” were plotting to murder him. “They are going to frame me with a laptop planted by my ex [girlfriend] who was a spy. They will torture me to death,” he tweeted.
Identity has so many facets. I could have been white English, white British, or white other, or not answered at all, but I plumped for white European in the end. All true, but all incomplete.
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
Her short stories in "The thing around your neck" are a good place to start, especially "Jumping Monkey Hill"
There are some great writers coming out of Africa nowadays, but she is particularly strong.
Jumping Monkey Hill was published by Granta on the web:
The England squad, including captain Ben Stokes, has been affected by a virus on the eve of the first Test against Pakistan in Rawalpindi.
Around 14 members of the travelling party of players and coaches were advised to rest at the hotel on Wednesday.
About half of the playing squad of 16 has been hit, with only five taking part in an optional training session.
The first match in the three-Test series begins on Thursday (05:00 GMT).
Lancashire all-rounder Liam Livingstone is due to make his Test debut for England, while opener Ben Duckett has been recalled to play his first Test in six years.
Joe Root, Zak Crawley, Harry Brook, Ollie Pope and Keaton Jennings were the players at training on Wednesday, while head coach Brendon McCullum was also in attendance.
All of the squad, except for the injured Mark Wood, took part in training the previous day.
The symptoms of those affected are not related to Covid-19 and the hope is there will be a recovery within 24 hours.
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....
You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
He’s the best England manager who isn’t Sir Alf, and even he was pretty lucky.
What I don’t get with the Southgate-out lot is: who do they think will come in and do a better job? England have a half decent set of players, but not as strong as France, Spain or Brazil, and while Italy and Germany seem to be between eras at the moment, they typically have stronger squads too.
We’re a second tier nation - getting to a semi and a final in the last two tournaments is impressive. Southgate’s pretty much getting the best out of these players.
Hmm... we got fortunate at the last WCup with the draw which got us through to the semi-final without playing anyone all that good. We had a better side than Croatia on paper, and I think Southgate's lack of experience as a top-level manager cost us.
Similarly in the euros, we beat Germany but otherwise got a fortunate draw through to the final. Again in the decisive match the team showed they had the capability to win, but poor management cost us.
You obviously can't replace Southgate now... but I don't genuinely believe he's the best person for the job.
As for the England squad, I think it's probably the second or third-best in the tournament after France and possibly Brazil.
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
The descendants of those Eastern Europeans will become white British pretty quickly.
The descendents of immigrants tend to get assimilated into the native population eventually. Lots of "white British" people have non-British ancestry from past immigration and imperial adventures. My wife's family are Sri Lankan but one of our children could already "pass" as white and I imagine all of our children's children would be able to if they marry white people as, statistically, they are likely to. Not that we would encourage them to ditch their heritage.
There was a Guardian article a while back wibbling about Black people moving out of London to the shires and “assimilating”.
Two crypto industry leaders die and they ask was I behind it?
The death of a Russian billionaire in a helicopter crash in Monaco has prompted speculation over possible sabotage after the sudden deaths of two other cryptocurrency industry leaders in the past month.
Vyacheslav Taran, 53, was killed when the helicopter he had chartered to fly him from Lausanne hit a French hillside overlooking the Mediterranean at Villefranche-sur-Mer as it was making its approach to the Monaco heliport. The 35-year-old pilot of the Monacair H-130 helicopter, the only other person on board, was also killed in the crash early last Friday afternoon.
The pilot, who was said by his employers to be an experienced local man, had not reported an emergency and there was no indication of what had caused the aircraft to hit the hillside as it descended in good visibility after the 90-minute flight. A second passenger had been due to board the helicopter, an almost new machine, but cancelled shortly before it took off...
...Last month Nikolai Mushegian, 29, the crypto-entrepreneur behind the MakerDAO project, drowned in Puerto Rico. He had tweeted that he feared that the CIA, Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service and “paedophiles” were plotting to murder him. “They are going to frame me with a laptop planted by my ex [girlfriend] who was a spy. They will torture me to death,” he tweeted.
The problem with the census is that it doesn't allow for people who feel culturally Christian (or other religions) but are non-practising. Every 10 years I hope they'll include an option for "non-practising" but they don't.
but non -practising does not mean non-believing - I am non-practising in the sense of not going to Church that often (4 times a year?) but certainly believe in Jesus and a higher being even if not literally all the bible
Up to you how you define yourself of course, but I would say going to church 4 times per year while believing in Jesus makes you practising.
Going every year at Christmas makes you a regular churchgoer!
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
Farage though did win a number of European elections on an anti immigration platform.
In 1970 Heath won the West Midlands seats partly with Powell's support and lost them when that went in 1974. Boris also won in 2019 on a cut immigration platform and failure of the points system to really do that has lost the Tories the redwall.
Javid's response 'so what' to Farage's post on some major cities now majority non white may be fair but got plenty of hostile below the line comments
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
A more measured response than I feel like giving. I'm fine with some of my friends having voted Brexit, and accept that they didn't do it in order to promote racial preferemce. Murray is doing them an outrageous disservice by assuming otherwise.
Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....
You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
He’s the best England manager who isn’t Sir Alf, and even he was pretty lucky.
What I don’t get with the Southgate-out lot is: who do they think will come in and do a better job? England have a half decent set of players, but not as strong as France, Spain or Brazil, and while Italy and Germany seem to be between eras at the moment, they typically have stronger squads too.
We’re a second tier nation - getting to a semi and a final in the last two tournaments is impressive. Southgate’s pretty much getting the best out of these players.
Hmm... we got fortunate at the last WCup with the draw which got us through to the semi-final without playing anyone all that good. We had a better side than Croatia on paper, and I think Southgate's lack of experience as a top-level manager cost us in that semi-final.
Similarly in the euros, we beat Germany but otherwise got a very fortunate draw through to the final. Again in the decisive match the team showed they had the capability to win, but I would say poor management cost us.
You obviously can't replace Southgate now... but I don't genuinely believe he's the best person for the job.
As for the England squad, I think it's probably the second or third-best in the tournament after France and possibly Brazil.
Yes, England has some great players, but the England team very rarely beats anyone good (partly, it should be said because, due to the number of football-playing nations, matches against top teams rarely crop up.) There are basically around 10 teams in the world who, by dint of population, economy, and the importance of football compared to other sports, you would expect to normally be there or therabouts - of which England is one. You would expect all of these teams to make the quarter finals most of the time and the semi finals almost every other tournament. Even with the current talented crop, England under Gareth Southgate is doing no better than par. (Which, granted, is a step up from the serious underperformance of the last three or four managers.)
Wins against Wales and Iran and a draw with the USA shouldn't be a cause for too much excitement for a team with pretensions to top 10 status.
This isn't an 'England are shit' post: just a reminder that in a 32 team tournament, the early stages necesarily include matches against teams with far fewer resources.
Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....
You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
He’s the best England manager who isn’t Sir Alf, and even he was pretty lucky.
What I don’t get with the Southgate-out lot is: who do they think will come in and do a better job? England have a half decent set of players, but not as strong as France, Spain or Brazil, and while Italy and Germany seem to be between eras at the moment, they typically have stronger squads too.
We’re a second tier nation - getting to a semi and a final in the last two tournaments is impressive. Southgate’s pretty much getting the best out of these players.
Hmm... we got fortunate at the last WCup with the draw which got us through to the semi-final without playing anyone all that good. We had a better side than Croatia on paper, and I think Southgate's lack of experience as a top-level manager cost us in that semi-final.
Similarly in the euros, we beat Germany but otherwise got a very fortunate draw through to the final. Again in the decisive match the team showed they had the capability to win, but I would say poor management cost us.
You obviously can't replace Southgate now... but I don't genuinely believe he's the best person for the job.
As for the England squad, I think it's probably the second or third-best in the tournament after France and possibly Brazil.
Yes, England has some great players, but the England team very rarely beats anyone good (partly, it should be said because, due to the number of football-playing nations, matches against top teams rarely crop up.) There are basically around 10 teams in the world who, by dint of population, economy, and the importance of football compared to other sports, you would expect to normally be there or therabouts - of which England is one. You would expect all of these teams to make the quarter finals most of the time and the semi finals almost every other tournament. Even with the current talented crop, England under Gareth Southgate is doing no better than par. (Which, granted, is a step up from the serious underperformance of the last three or four managers.)
Wins against Wales and Iran and a draw with the USA shouldn't be a cause for too much excitement for a team with pretensions to top 10 status.
This isn't an 'England are shit' post: just a reminder that in a 32 team tournament, the early stages necesarily include matches against teams with far fewer resources.
If England beat France in the quarter finals, then that surpass anything they've achieved under Southgate so far. I know they beat Germany, but that was at Wembley and the Germans weren't great. Beating France would be very impressive.
This is an opinion no one asked for any no one cares about (like 99% of the Internet) but can I just place on record how much this Ipswich fan hates the World Cup and dreads its return every 4 years. Sorry, just had to vent. Do carry on.
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
Farage though did win a number of European elections on an anti immigration platform.
In 1970 Heath won the West Midlands seats partly with Powell's support and lost them when that went in 1974. Boris also won in 2019 on a cut immigration platform and failure of the points system to really do that has lost the Tories the redwall.
Javid's response 'so what' to Farage's post on some major cities now majority non white may be fair but got plenty of hostile below the line comments
BREAKING: Jailed Belarusian opposition leader Maria Kolesnikova is in intensive care...
Kolesnikova played an important role in the 2020 Belarusian election protests
Unlike Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, she refused to go into exile and ripped up her passport. The result was an 11-year prison sentence and a health collapse for "unknown reasons"
Time to draft in some of the travelling Press to play as stand-ins?
Does sound like we all have to expect a bit more in the way of minor viral complaints for the next year or so. RSV is raging across Ireland. I'm shortly travelling back to London to work a day in a couple of different offices and have a Christmas party, so I guess there's a decent chance I'll pick up anything circulating at the time.
I keep on meaning to check whether the airlines still insist on mask use, but haven't bothered yet.
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
She is utterly brilliant. Half of a Yellow Sun is probably the best book I've read in the last decade, haunting, beautifully written and completely heartbreaking. I think she has a lot of very intelligent things to say on this and other subjects and is always worth listening to.
Two crypto industry leaders die and they ask was I behind it?
The death of a Russian billionaire in a helicopter crash in Monaco has prompted speculation over possible sabotage after the sudden deaths of two other cryptocurrency industry leaders in the past month.
Vyacheslav Taran, 53, was killed when the helicopter he had chartered to fly him from Lausanne hit a French hillside overlooking the Mediterranean at Villefranche-sur-Mer as it was making its approach to the Monaco heliport. The 35-year-old pilot of the Monacair H-130 helicopter, the only other person on board, was also killed in the crash early last Friday afternoon.
The pilot, who was said by his employers to be an experienced local man, had not reported an emergency and there was no indication of what had caused the aircraft to hit the hillside as it descended in good visibility after the 90-minute flight. A second passenger had been due to board the helicopter, an almost new machine, but cancelled shortly before it took off...
...Last month Nikolai Mushegian, 29, the crypto-entrepreneur behind the MakerDAO project, drowned in Puerto Rico. He had tweeted that he feared that the CIA, Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service and “paedophiles” were plotting to murder him. “They are going to frame me with a laptop planted by my ex [girlfriend] who was a spy. They will torture me to death,” he tweeted.
What they don't mention is that the location the helicopter crashed into is a public exercise park much loved by dog walkers and the occasional keep fit fanatic. That no one on the ground went the way of the crypto currencyist is just good fortune
Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....
You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
He’s the best England manager who isn’t Sir Alf, and even he was pretty lucky.
What I don’t get with the Southgate-out lot is: who do they think will come in and do a better job? England have a half decent set of players, but not as strong as France, Spain or Brazil, and while Italy and Germany seem to be between eras at the moment, they typically have stronger squads too.
We’re a second tier nation - getting to a semi and a final in the last two tournaments is impressive. Southgate’s pretty much getting the best out of these players.
Hmm... we got fortunate at the last WCup with the draw which got us through to the semi-final without playing anyone all that good. We had a better side than Croatia on paper, and I think Southgate's lack of experience as a top-level manager cost us in that semi-final.
Similarly in the euros, we beat Germany but otherwise got a very fortunate draw through to the final. Again in the decisive match the team showed they had the capability to win, but I would say poor management cost us.
You obviously can't replace Southgate now... but I don't genuinely believe he's the best person for the job.
As for the England squad, I think it's probably the second or third-best in the tournament after France and possibly Brazil.
Yes, England has some great players, but the England team very rarely beats anyone good (partly, it should be said because, due to the number of football-playing nations, matches against top teams rarely crop up.) There are basically around 10 teams in the world who, by dint of population, economy, and the importance of football compared to other sports, you would expect to normally be there or therabouts - of which England is one. You would expect all of these teams to make the quarter finals most of the time and the semi finals almost every other tournament. Even with the current talented crop, England under Gareth Southgate is doing no better than par. (Which, granted, is a step up from the serious underperformance of the last three or four managers.)
Wins against Wales and Iran and a draw with the USA shouldn't be a cause for too much excitement for a team with pretensions to top 10 status.
This isn't an 'England are shit' post: just a reminder that in a 32 team tournament, the early stages necesarily include matches against teams with far fewer resources.
The "big" one is Brazil, then the sextet of medium sized nations of which we're a part. Obviously the big shock this world cup was Italy not qualifying and Belgium being unlikely to qualify from the group stages, but Italy did win the Euros and Belgium have been stronger in recent previous euros and WCs. Then a bunch of smaller nations.
Pop = 214 million Brazil, Pop 45- 83 million Germany, France, Italy, England, Spain, Argentina. Pop 10 - 18 million Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal
After that there's a whole host of small nations that punch above their weight for population - I note Croatia and Denmark then Switzerland are 9th, 10th and 11th most likely winners and Uruguay has the 11th strongest team according to 538 SPI.
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
A more measured response than I feel like giving. I'm fine with some of my friends having voted Brexit, and accept that they didn't do it in order to promote racial preferemce. Murray is doing them an outrageous disservice by assuming otherwise.
I didn't read it as a reference to the Brexit vote, to be honest. I just think that a lot of the anti-immigration debate, at least with reference to historical commonwealth immigration, is conducted from a place of ignorance when it comes to our colonial history. Why did West Indian immigrants come here after ww2? Because they were taught at school that they were British. So coming to Britain was the most natural thing in the world for them to do. Especially as there were no jobs for them in the Caribbean as their entire economies were designed to be profitable only with slave labour. And guess what, nobody asked their ancestors if they wanted to be dragged over from Africa (or Scotland and Ireland) in bondage, either.
Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....
You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
He’s the best England manager who isn’t Sir Alf, and even he was pretty lucky.
What I don’t get with the Southgate-out lot is: who do they think will come in and do a better job? England have a half decent set of players, but not as strong as France, Spain or Brazil, and while Italy and Germany seem to be between eras at the moment, they typically have stronger squads too.
We’re a second tier nation - getting to a semi and a final in the last two tournaments is impressive. Southgate’s pretty much getting the best out of these players.
Hmm... we got fortunate at the last WCup with the draw which got us through to the semi-final without playing anyone all that good. We had a better side than Croatia on paper, and I think Southgate's lack of experience as a top-level manager cost us in that semi-final.
Similarly in the euros, we beat Germany but otherwise got a very fortunate draw through to the final. Again in the decisive match the team showed they had the capability to win, but I would say poor management cost us.
You obviously can't replace Southgate now... but I don't genuinely believe he's the best person for the job.
As for the England squad, I think it's probably the second or third-best in the tournament after France and possibly Brazil.
Yes, England has some great players, but the England team very rarely beats anyone good (partly, it should be said because, due to the number of football-playing nations, matches against top teams rarely crop up.) There are basically around 10 teams in the world who, by dint of population, economy, and the importance of football compared to other sports, you would expect to normally be there or therabouts - of which England is one. You would expect all of these teams to make the quarter finals most of the time and the semi finals almost every other tournament. Even with the current talented crop, England under Gareth Southgate is doing no better than par. (Which, granted, is a step up from the serious underperformance of the last three or four managers.)
Wins against Wales and Iran and a draw with the USA shouldn't be a cause for too much excitement for a team with pretensions to top 10 status.
This isn't an 'England are shit' post: just a reminder that in a 32 team tournament, the early stages necesarily include matches against teams with far fewer resources.
If England beat France in the quarter finals, then that surpass anything they've achieved under Southgate so far. I know they beat Germany, but that was at Wembley and the Germans weren't great. Beating France would be very impressive.
Yes, agreed. Hard to see that they will at the moment. France have looked quite impressive. And England need to get past Senegal first!
But to warm to an earlier point, the England football team very rarely get to play against anyone who can test them. In any given year, the England rugby team will play against, probably, at least 8 of the other top ten countries; the England cricket team will have a series against four of the top 8 teams. The England football team can often go for a couple of years between playing one of the other top ten countries. There are so few opportunities to be able to say that a given team is any good.
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.
The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.
London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
She is utterly brilliant. Half of a Yellow Sun is probably the best book I've read in the last decade, haunting, beautifully written and completely heartbreaking. I think she has a lot of very intelligent things to say on this and other subjects and is always worth listening to.
I haven't heard of her before and have only glanced through the comments this morning. But from what I have seen so far, I wonder if she is exactly the sort of liberal, measured critic of the excesses of what are called woke and cancel culture that Gardenwalker was hoping for a few days ago?
Slightly tangentially, it is always nice to be introduced to a new voice - writer, artist or commentator - that one hasn't heard of before. Even if, in the end, you end up disagreeing with them it is fab to see new takes on life and culture.
Haven't done much betting at all recently, between technical woe, domestic football drying up, and F1 coming to a seasonal close. Had a free bet, stuck it on Russell for the title next year, at 7. Probably wouldn't do that with my own cash (credible outcome but lots of things could go awry).
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
A more measured response than I feel like giving. I'm fine with some of my friends having voted Brexit, and accept that they didn't do it in order to promote racial preferemce. Murray is doing them an outrageous disservice by assuming otherwise.
There is plenty of evidence that the views of the majority of Brexiters was far from wholesome much of it exposed during the campaign. Even just knowing what we know about Farage should have been a signpost to those marching behind him.
(Though I also enjoyed the delicacy of the post by 'OnlyLivingBoy'
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
Her short stories in "The thing around your neck" are a good place to start, especially "Jumping Monkey Hill"
There are some great writers coming out of Africa nowadays, but she is particularly strong.
Jumping Monkey Hill was published by Granta on the web:
I think she does a wonderful job of being thoughtful, nuanced but not shy of saying uncomfortable things.
I'm halfway through her Americanah but must admit to struggling a bit - not becuase it's not reall well-written, but because the dilemmas of African-Americans dealing with dual heritage are so outside my frame of reference that I find it difficult to be interested. That's a self-indictment, of course - why shouldn't one be interested in a different cultural dilemma? But is there a different book that people here would recommend that's closer to the UK experience?
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
She is utterly brilliant. Half of a Yellow Sun is probably the best book I've read in the last decade, haunting, beautifully written and completely heartbreaking. I think she has a lot of very intelligent things to say on this and other subjects and is always worth listening to.
I haven't heard of her before and have only glanced through the comments this morning. But from what I have seen so far, I wonder if she is exactly the sort of liberal, measured critic of the excesses of what are called woke and cancel culture that Gardenwalker was hoping for a few days ago?
Slightly tangentially, it is always nice to be introduced to a new voice - writer, artist or commentator - that one hasn't heard of before. Even if, in the end, you end up disagreeing with them it is fab to see new takes on life and culture.
She may well be. I think she has a lot of interesting things to say, as well as being a sublimely talented novelist.
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
Her short stories in "The thing around your neck" are a good place to start, especially "Jumping Monkey Hill"
There are some great writers coming out of Africa nowadays, but she is particularly strong.
Jumping Monkey Hill was published by Granta on the web:
I think she does a wonderful job of being thoughtful, nuanced but not shy of saying uncomfortable things.
I'm halfway through her Americanah but must admit to struggling a bit - not becuase it's not reall well-written, but because the dilemmas of African-Americans dealing with dual heritage are so outside my frame of reference that I find it difficult to be interested. That's a self-indictment, of course - why shouldn't one be interested in a different cultural dilemma? But is there a different book that people here would recommend that's closer to the UK experience?
Half of a Yellow Sun is a better book. It's about the Biafran conflict and famine, so again completely outside one's normal frame of reference but it completely drew me in. It is very harrowing.
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
Farage though did win a number of European elections on an anti immigration platform.
In 1970 Heath won the West Midlands seats partly with Powell's support and lost them when that went in 1974. Boris also won in 2019 on a cut immigration platform and failure of the points system to really do that has lost the Tories the redwall.
Javid's response 'so what' to Farage's post on some major cities now majority non white may be fair but got plenty of hostile below the line comments
I agree with @hyufd here. In General Elections, due to our fptp system that lends itself to the 2 party system, the repatriation/zero immigration vote gets squeezed but it is certainly still there as evidenced by the examples hyufd gave.
From an anecdotal point of view, as I have mentioned before, my father voted leave 'because there were already too many black people here' regardless of how irrational that sentiment might be.
And as hyufd has said previously if we have a proportional system a Farage style party would probably win seats. Much as I disagree with Farage style party winning any seats, if we want democracy we have to accept that is a cost of having it.
Time to draft in some of the travelling Press to play as stand-ins?
Does sound like we all have to expect a bit more in the way of minor viral complaints for the next year or so. RSV is raging across Ireland. I'm shortly travelling back to London to work a day in a couple of different offices and have a Christmas party, so I guess there's a decent chance I'll pick up anything circulating at the time.
I keep on meaning to check whether the airlines still insist on mask use, but haven't bothered yet.
Planes extensively filter the air that recirculates, the bigger risk is in the departure lounge.
Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....
You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
He’s the best England manager who isn’t Sir Alf, and even he was pretty lucky.
What I don’t get with the Southgate-out lot is: who do they think will come in and do a better job? England have a half decent set of players, but not as strong as France, Spain or Brazil, and while Italy and Germany seem to be between eras at the moment, they typically have stronger squads too.
We’re a second tier nation - getting to a semi and a final in the last two tournaments is impressive. Southgate’s pretty much getting the best out of these players.
Hmm... we got fortunate at the last WCup with the draw which got us through to the semi-final without playing anyone all that good. We had a better side than Croatia on paper, and I think Southgate's lack of experience as a top-level manager cost us in that semi-final.
Similarly in the euros, we beat Germany but otherwise got a very fortunate draw through to the final. Again in the decisive match the team showed they had the capability to win, but I would say poor management cost us.
You obviously can't replace Southgate now... but I don't genuinely believe he's the best person for the job.
As for the England squad, I think it's probably the second or third-best in the tournament after France and possibly Brazil.
Yes, England has some great players, but the England team very rarely beats anyone good (partly, it should be said because, due to the number of football-playing nations, matches against top teams rarely crop up.) There are basically around 10 teams in the world who, by dint of population, economy, and the importance of football compared to other sports, you would expect to normally be there or therabouts - of which England is one. You would expect all of these teams to make the quarter finals most of the time and the semi finals almost every other tournament. Even with the current talented crop, England under Gareth Southgate is doing no better than par. (Which, granted, is a step up from the serious underperformance of the last three or four managers.)
Wins against Wales and Iran and a draw with the USA shouldn't be a cause for too much excitement for a team with pretensions to top 10 status.
This isn't an 'England are shit' post: just a reminder that in a 32 team tournament, the early stages necesarily include matches against teams with far fewer resources.
The "big" one is Brazil, then the sextet of medium sized nations of which we're a part. Obviously the big shock this world cup was Italy not qualifying and Belgium being unlikely to qualify from the group stages, but Italy did win the Euros and Belgium have been stronger in recent previous euros and WCs. Then a bunch of smaller nations.
Pop = 214 million Brazil, Pop 45- 83 million Germany, France, Italy, England, Spain, Argentina. Pop 10 - 18 million Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal
After that there's a whole host of small nations that punch above their weight for population - I note Croatia and Denmark then Switzerland are 9th, 10th and 11th most likely winners and Uruguay has the 11th strongest team according to 538 SPI.
Those 538 predictions look a bit suspect to me... Brazil has the same chance of winning the tournament as France and Spain combined? That doesn't seem right...
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
A more measured response than I feel like giving. I'm fine with some of my friends having voted Brexit, and accept that they didn't do it in order to promote racial preferemce. Murray is doing them an outrageous disservice by assuming otherwise.
I didn't read it as a reference to the Brexit vote, to be honest. I just think that a lot of the anti-immigration debate, at least with reference to historical commonwealth immigration, is conducted from a place of ignorance when it comes to our colonial history. Why did West Indian immigrants come here after ww2? Because they were taught at school that they were British. So coming to Britain was the most natural thing in the world for them to do. Especially as there were no jobs for them in the Caribbean as their entire economies were designed to be profitable only with slave labour. And guess what, nobody asked their ancestors if they wanted to be dragged over from Africa (or Scotland and Ireland) in bondage, either.
Not sure if that is right or if it is the opposite- the unlovely human characteristic of disliking people to whom one has done a wrong
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
I'll admit I've never heard of her, but if that piece is typical of her articulacy, I'm not surprised to hear her books are good.
Her short stories in "The thing around your neck" are a good place to start, especially "Jumping Monkey Hill"
There are some great writers coming out of Africa nowadays, but she is particularly strong.
Jumping Monkey Hill was published by Granta on the web:
I think she does a wonderful job of being thoughtful, nuanced but not shy of saying uncomfortable things.
I'm halfway through her Americanah but must admit to struggling a bit - not becuase it's not reall well-written, but because the dilemmas of African-Americans dealing with dual heritage are so outside my frame of reference that I find it difficult to be interested. That's a self-indictment, of course - why shouldn't one be interested in a different cultural dilemma? But is there a different book that people here would recommend that's closer to the UK experience?
Half of a Yellow Sun is a better book. It's about the Biafran conflict and famine, so again completely outside one's normal frame of reference but it completely drew me in. It is very harrowing.
I agree. Very readable and tolerably harrowing and more culturally understandable than many of those with an American backdrop
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
A more measured response than I feel like giving. I'm fine with some of my friends having voted Brexit, and accept that they didn't do it in order to promote racial preferemce. Murray is doing them an outrageous disservice by assuming otherwise.
I didn't read it as a reference to the Brexit vote, to be honest. I just think that a lot of the anti-immigration debate, at least with reference to historical commonwealth immigration, is conducted from a place of ignorance when it comes to our colonial history. Why did West Indian immigrants come here after ww2? Because they were taught at school that they were British. So coming to Britain was the most natural thing in the world for them to do. Especially as there were no jobs for them in the Caribbean as their entire economies were designed to be profitable only with slave labour. And guess what, nobody asked their ancestors if they wanted to be dragged over from Africa (or Scotland and Ireland) in bondage, either.
Anti "multiculturalism" can be a veneer for racism and sometimes with Murray things pop out that make you think it might be in his case.
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
A more measured response than I feel like giving. I'm fine with some of my friends having voted Brexit, and accept that they didn't do it in order to promote racial preferemce. Murray is doing them an outrageous disservice by assuming otherwise.
I didn't read it as a reference to the Brexit vote, to be honest. I just think that a lot of the anti-immigration debate, at least with reference to historical commonwealth immigration, is conducted from a place of ignorance when it comes to our colonial history. Why did West Indian immigrants come here after ww2? Because they were taught at school that they were British. So coming to Britain was the most natural thing in the world for them to do. Especially as there were no jobs for them in the Caribbean as their entire economies were designed to be profitable only with slave labour. And guess what, nobody asked their ancestors if they wanted to be dragged over from Africa (or Scotland and Ireland) in bondage, either.
Anti "multiculturalism" can be a veneer for racism and sometimes with Murray things pop out that make you think it might be in his case.
Are there multi cultural Old Etonians? Perhaps but I doubt their parents felt the same.
BREAKING: Jailed Belarusian opposition leader Maria Kolesnikova is in intensive care...
Kolesnikova played an important role in the 2020 Belarusian election protests
Unlike Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, she refused to go into exile and ripped up her passport. The result was an 11-year prison sentence and a health collapse for "unknown reasons"
I'm willing to bet she will now face a torrent of abuse for being 'a coconut, an apologist for slaving, anti-trans,' etc etc.
Which will rather prove her point...
I’ve just listened to that.
It’s excellent.
I fear it’s futile, though. Reads like a speech from ten years ago. Perhaps rather naive, too. A point which she addresses and unconvincingly encourages us to embrace.
I think the strongest argument is, perhaps, one she doesn’t make strongly enough. It’s to read political history as a battle of powerful elites and their constituencies who inevitably seek to crush dissent from the out groups, until they’re overthrown - often with violence - by a different group who pursue the same strategy - against different out groups.
Who could forget the great skin colour vote? Dougie obviously backed the photoshopped pinky-beige candidate.
People had the opportunity to vote for far right candidates standing on a platform of repatriation and zero immigration in every general election and they chose not to. So I think it's wrong to say that there was no vote on this. Or at least, it's only true in the sense that it's true of any issue over which we have never had a single issue referendum. The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
A more measured response than I feel like giving. I'm fine with some of my friends having voted Brexit, and accept that they didn't do it in order to promote racial preferemce. Murray is doing them an outrageous disservice by assuming otherwise.
I didn't read it as a reference to the Brexit vote, to be honest. I just think that a lot of the anti-immigration debate, at least with reference to historical commonwealth immigration, is conducted from a place of ignorance when it comes to our colonial history. Why did West Indian immigrants come here after ww2? Because they were taught at school that they were British. So coming to Britain was the most natural thing in the world for them to do. Especially as there were no jobs for them in the Caribbean as their entire economies were designed to be profitable only with slave labour. And guess what, nobody asked their ancestors if they wanted to be dragged over from Africa (or Scotland and Ireland) in bondage, either.
Not sure if that is right or if it is the opposite- the unlovely human characteristic of disliking people to whom one has done a wrong
Might be an element of that but I think profound ignorance about the Empire, including what Britain's imperial subjects were taught about their relationship to Britain, is definitely in the mix. I only know about this stuff because I lived in a commonwealth country for a number of years and my wife's parents were born as British subjects in another one. I didn't really learn anything about it at school.
Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....
You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
He’s the best England manager who isn’t Sir Alf, and even he was pretty lucky.
What I don’t get with the Southgate-out lot is: who do they think will come in and do a better job? England have a half decent set of players, but not as strong as France, Spain or Brazil, and while Italy and Germany seem to be between eras at the moment, they typically have stronger squads too.
We’re a second tier nation - getting to a semi and a final in the last two tournaments is impressive. Southgate’s pretty much getting the best out of these players.
Hmm... we got fortunate at the last WCup with the draw which got us through to the semi-final without playing anyone all that good. We had a better side than Croatia on paper, and I think Southgate's lack of experience as a top-level manager cost us in that semi-final.
Similarly in the euros, we beat Germany but otherwise got a very fortunate draw through to the final. Again in the decisive match the team showed they had the capability to win, but I would say poor management cost us.
You obviously can't replace Southgate now... but I don't genuinely believe he's the best person for the job.
As for the England squad, I think it's probably the second or third-best in the tournament after France and possibly Brazil.
Yes, England has some great players, but the England team very rarely beats anyone good (partly, it should be said because, due to the number of football-playing nations, matches against top teams rarely crop up.) There are basically around 10 teams in the world who, by dint of population, economy, and the importance of football compared to other sports, you would expect to normally be there or therabouts - of which England is one. You would expect all of these teams to make the quarter finals most of the time and the semi finals almost every other tournament. Even with the current talented crop, England under Gareth Southgate is doing no better than par. (Which, granted, is a step up from the serious underperformance of the last three or four managers.)
Wins against Wales and Iran and a draw with the USA shouldn't be a cause for too much excitement for a team with pretensions to top 10 status.
This isn't an 'England are shit' post: just a reminder that in a 32 team tournament, the early stages necesarily include matches against teams with far fewer resources.
If England beat France in the quarter finals, then that surpass anything they've achieved under Southgate so far. I know they beat Germany, but that was at Wembley and the Germans weren't great. Beating France would be very impressive.
Following earlier comments on Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, I've just listened to her Reith lecture on freedom of speech, and the Q&A session following it.
She's absolutely brilliant, and does indeed provide a 'liberal' critique of self-censorship that many on the left (e.g. me) can agree with entirely, and I hope some on the right would also accept. Well worth a listen. Without using the 'woke' word, she debunks various aspects of 'cancel culture' such as 'sensitivity readers' in universities. At the same time, she acknowledges that freedom of speech can't be absolutist if, for example, it is used to advocate physical violence. In answering a direct question, she argues that while both the right and the left are to blame for the current malaise, the right should carry the heavier burden. particularly for using social media to spread 'untruths'. (She argues strongly that there is an objective truth, and that the relativist position is liable to end up with subjective opinions).
Okay, I guess she's arguing a case that aligns absolutely with my own views - but she does it so much better than I ever could. Strongly recommended to all those with an open mind.
The England squad, including captain Ben Stokes, has been affected by a virus on the eve of the first Test against Pakistan in Rawalpindi.
Around 14 members of the travelling party of players and coaches were advised to rest at the hotel on Wednesday.
About half of the playing squad of 16 has been hit, with only five taking part in an optional training session.
The first match in the three-Test series begins on Thursday (05:00 GMT).
Lancashire all-rounder Liam Livingstone is due to make his Test debut for England, while opener Ben Duckett has been recalled to play his first Test in six years.
Joe Root, Zak Crawley, Harry Brook, Ollie Pope and Keaton Jennings were the players at training on Wednesday, while head coach Brendon McCullum was also in attendance.
All of the squad, except for the injured Mark Wood, took part in training the previous day.
The symptoms of those affected are not related to Covid-19 and the hope is there will be a recovery within 24 hours.
Comments
Given the historical record of peoples and countries where Buddhism is a major religion.
The belief in its nobility seems to one of those occasions where Westerners find something foreign and declare it superior, just because it is different. And fail to notice that it is just the same.
(If nobody's yet sent that heckler a crate of whatever her favourite tipple is, do please send me her details
🍾🔥🎉)[VIDEO]
https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1597668739222474753
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.207047227
https://ai.facebook.com/research/cicero/
There’s a research paper published in Science but it is $$ and I haven’t found another way to access it yet
(And I speak as a US resident and massive LAFC fan.)
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Author warns about 'epidemic of self-censorship'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63797087
I'm willing to bet she will now face a torrent of abuse for being 'a coconut, an apologist for slaving, anti-trans,' etc etc.
Which will rather prove her point...
EDIT: just imagine a version of the Cornerstone Speech, with the racist pro-slavery stuff taken out. That’s exactly what the Lost Cause low key racists want….
https://twitter.com/GuardianBooks/status/1597109418847797249?t=XMw2_SiYMMCE4xUlGqzZ3A&s=19
I have read a few of her books. She has quite interesting ideas, and her writings on racism, American culture, feminism and neo-colonial attitudes in approaches to Africa are well crafted parts of her stories. Her books are quite a pleasure to read, with interesting and complex characters that engage the reader with these ideas, without being force-fed them.
I shall listen in later, there should be something to challenge everyone.
Don’t forget to tune into @BBCRadio4 at 9am GMT today, to hear Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie @ChimamandaReal give the first Reith lecture, on freedom of speech. I was very lucky to hear her recording it. It’s brilliant amd so is she - you do not want to miss.
https://twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1597853788576305152
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/29/uk-census-christians-now-minority-england-wales-first-time/
Cambridge only 35% Christian, Oxford only 38% Christian, both well below the 46% Christian average in England and Wales
There are some great writers coming out of Africa nowadays, but she is particularly strong.
Two crypto industry leaders die and they ask was I behind it?
The death of a Russian billionaire in a helicopter crash in Monaco has prompted speculation over possible sabotage after the sudden deaths of two other cryptocurrency industry leaders in the past month.
Vyacheslav Taran, 53, was killed when the helicopter he had chartered to fly him from Lausanne hit a French hillside overlooking the Mediterranean at Villefranche-sur-Mer as it was making its approach to the Monaco heliport. The 35-year-old pilot of the Monacair H-130 helicopter, the only other person on board, was also killed in the crash early last Friday afternoon.
The pilot, who was said by his employers to be an experienced local man, had not reported an emergency and there was no indication of what had caused the aircraft to hit the hillside as it descended in good visibility after the 90-minute flight. A second passenger had been due to board the helicopter, an almost new machine, but cancelled shortly before it took off...
...Last month Nikolai Mushegian, 29, the crypto-entrepreneur behind the MakerDAO project, drowned in Puerto Rico. He had tweeted that he feared that the CIA, Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service and “paedophiles” were plotting to murder him. “They are going to frame me with a laptop planted by my ex [girlfriend] who was a spy. They will torture me to death,” he tweeted.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-crypto-billionaire-killed-helicopter-crash-monaco-b668tsbkt
https://granta.com/jumping-monkey-hill/
The England squad, including captain Ben Stokes, has been affected by a virus on the eve of the first Test against Pakistan in Rawalpindi.
Around 14 members of the travelling party of players and coaches were advised to rest at the hotel on Wednesday.
About half of the playing squad of 16 has been hit, with only five taking part in an optional training session.
The first match in the three-Test series begins on Thursday (05:00 GMT).
Lancashire all-rounder Liam Livingstone is due to make his Test debut for England, while opener Ben Duckett has been recalled to play his first Test in six years.
Joe Root, Zak Crawley, Harry Brook, Ollie Pope and Keaton Jennings were the players at training on Wednesday, while head coach Brendon McCullum was also in attendance.
All of the squad, except for the injured Mark Wood, took part in training the previous day.
The symptoms of those affected are not related to Covid-19 and the hope is there will be a recovery within 24 hours.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/63799572
The reality is that we had free movement with the Empire/Commonwealth for centuries on the assumption that the traffic would be one way. As soon as the traffic reversed we started tightening up the rules in successive stages. We could have tightened more or faster but our democratically elected governments chose not to. Personally I am very happy with where we are now, but I get it that some people aren't, that's their choice.
Similarly in the euros, we beat Germany but otherwise got a fortunate draw through to the final. Again in the decisive match the team showed they had the capability to win, but poor management cost us.
You obviously can't replace Southgate now... but I don't genuinely believe he's the best person for the job.
As for the England squad, I think it's probably the second or third-best in the tournament after France and possibly Brazil.
In 1970 Heath won the West Midlands seats partly with Powell's support and lost them when that went in 1974. Boris also won in 2019 on a cut immigration platform and failure of the points system to really do that has lost the Tories the redwall.
Javid's response 'so what' to Farage's post on some major cities now majority non white may be fair but got plenty of hostile below the line comments
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1597696442801741826?s=20
Wins against Wales and Iran and a draw with the USA shouldn't be a cause for too much excitement for a team with pretensions to top 10 status.
This isn't an 'England are shit' post: just a reminder that in a 32 team tournament, the early stages necesarily include matches against teams with far fewer resources.
Farage is due in Llandudno this week but he is not revealing where he is speaking
His comments on English cities were just wrong and divisive and the sooner he returns to England the better
Kolesnikova played an important role in the 2020 Belarusian election protests
Unlike Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, she refused to go into exile and ripped up her passport. The result was an 11-year prison sentence and a health collapse for "unknown reasons"
https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1597671942529482753
Does sound like we all have to expect a bit more in the way of minor viral complaints for the next year or so. RSV is raging across Ireland. I'm shortly travelling back to London to work a day in a couple of different offices and have a Christmas party, so I guess there's a decent chance I'll pick up anything circulating at the time.
I keep on meaning to check whether the airlines still insist on mask use, but haven't bothered yet.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/29/stewart-rhodes-oath-keepers-verdict-00071248
Then a bunch of smaller nations.
Pop = 214 million
Brazil,
Pop 45- 83 million
Germany, France, Italy, England, Spain, Argentina.
Pop 10 - 18 million
Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal
After that there's a whole host of small nations that punch above their weight for population - I note Croatia and Denmark then Switzerland are 9th, 10th and 11th most likely winners and Uruguay has the 11th strongest team according to 538 SPI.
Hard to see that they will at the moment. France have looked quite impressive. And England need to get past Senegal first!
But to warm to an earlier point, the England football team very rarely get to play against anyone who can test them.
In any given year, the England rugby team will play against, probably, at least 8 of the other top ten countries; the England cricket team will have a series against four of the top 8 teams. The England football team can often go for a couple of years between playing one of the other top ten countries. There are so few opportunities to be able to say that a given team is any good.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3754872-progressives-cool-on-finding-an-alternative-to-biden/
It's amusing that the biggest issue the liberal side of the Democrats find with Biden is his policy rather than his age.
Slightly tangentially, it is always nice to be introduced to a new voice - writer, artist or commentator - that one hasn't heard of before. Even if, in the end, you end up disagreeing with them it is fab to see new takes on life and culture.
Haven't done much betting at all recently, between technical woe, domestic football drying up, and F1 coming to a seasonal close. Had a free bet, stuck it on Russell for the title next year, at 7. Probably wouldn't do that with my own cash (credible outcome but lots of things could go awry).
(Though I also enjoyed the delicacy of the post by 'OnlyLivingBoy'
I'm halfway through her Americanah but must admit to struggling a bit - not becuase it's not reall well-written, but because the dilemmas of African-Americans dealing with dual heritage are so outside my frame of reference that I find it difficult to be interested. That's a self-indictment, of course - why shouldn't one be interested in a different cultural dilemma? But is there a different book that people here would recommend that's closer to the UK experience?
From an anecdotal point of view, as I have mentioned before, my father voted leave 'because there were already too many black people here' regardless of how irrational that sentiment might be.
And as hyufd has said previously if we have a proportional system a Farage style party would probably win seats. Much as I disagree with Farage style party winning any seats, if we want democracy we have to accept that is a cost of having it.
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/306860855?preservedReferrer=https://www.google.co.uk/
It’s excellent.
I fear it’s futile, though. Reads like a speech from ten years ago. Perhaps rather naive, too. A point which she addresses and unconvincingly encourages us to embrace.
I think the strongest argument is, perhaps, one she doesn’t make strongly enough. It’s to read political history as a battle of powerful elites and their constituencies who inevitably seek to crush dissent from the out groups, until they’re overthrown - often with violence - by a different group who pursue the same strategy - against different out groups.
Free speech for all is our way out of that cycle.
She's absolutely brilliant, and does indeed provide a 'liberal' critique of self-censorship that many on the left (e.g. me) can agree with entirely, and I hope some on the right would also accept. Well worth a listen. Without using the 'woke' word, she debunks various aspects of 'cancel culture' such as 'sensitivity readers' in universities. At the same time, she acknowledges that freedom of speech can't be absolutist if, for example, it is used to advocate physical violence. In answering a direct question, she argues that while both the right and the left are to blame for the current malaise, the right should carry the heavier burden. particularly for using social media to spread 'untruths'. (She argues strongly that there is an objective truth, and that the relativist position is liable to end up with subjective opinions).
Okay, I guess she's arguing a case that aligns absolutely with my own views - but she does it so much better than I ever could. Strongly recommended to all those with an open mind.