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Sunak vs. Starmer – the polling trend – politicalbetting.com

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,995

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Certainly was a heavy one here. Freezing fog from 11am onwards too. Cold.
    Best of luck on the jury.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Also ITV must never be allowed to show England WC or Euro games again.

    Bad news, they are showing England v Senegal on Sunday.
    Have we ever lost to an African nation at a World Cup?
    Came mighty close in 1990. But not yet.
    I was watching that game in a bar in Magaluf.

    I used to DJ in a club called Bar Magaluf. It was not in Magaluf.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,448
    edited November 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:


    A Conservative/SNP alliance?

    Why would they deal with a bunch of small-minded xenophobes obsessed with one issue that was officially out to bed for good ages ago and are clapped out by a long time in office?

    Which party I am talking about there I leave to your imagination...

    I know, I know - I've been pilloried repeatedly for even daring to suggest such an idea as it seems the ultimate heresy but as the song goes, I can't get it out of my head.

    I've often said the status quo suits both the Conservatives and SNP quite well - would Sturgeon find it as easy to demonise a Labour Government in Westminster as she can a Conservative Government?
    No.

    Would she retain her leadership for five minutes or the SNP a single seat at the following election if they propped up the Tories?

    Also no.

    This would suit the SNP (and her) even less well.

    The minor detail that the SNP are very like the Tories in many crucial respects makes it all the more important to keep a healthy distance from them.
    Yes, you're right of course but what price would the Conservatives be willing to pay to remain in power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?

    What price would Labour be willing to pay to take power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?
    There is no price the Conservatives could offer that the SNP could afford. Not even an instant referendum, as their credibility would be so shattered who would believe their prospectus for independence (which wasn't notable for credibility to start with)?

    It would be the Liberal Democrats on crack, it really would.

    Starmer also therefore has the advantage that he can ask the SNP, very sweetly, if they are happy with a Tory Government and if not, why are they not voting to turf it out and put him in?
    OTOH Mr Starmer is rapidly becoming a sort of sensible boring Tory government, wearing more UJs than Mr Murray I and going on and on about preserving the heritage of Brexit. So ...
    So he has all the advantages of the Tories from the SNP point of view without the major drawback of actually being one?
    I think that's a bit too, erm, quixotic even from you.

    The real, underlying problem is not north of the border.

    It's the fact that under most - though not all - scenarios Labour dependence on the SNP would imply a situation where, in England or more so E&W, they'd be outnumbered by the Tories (a few LDs and others aside). I can't see how that is workable under EVEL or the SNP's much longer-standing doctrine of doing the same years before the Tories instituted it. It's going to be an absolute horror show with a de factor E or E&W parliament under a UK government of a different colour. But that's normal for the rest of the UK anyway. Just that the English aren't used to it.
    It's happened many times, just not recently. It happened in 1974, 1964 and 1950, for example.
    Yes, that's true, but the UK was much more of a 2 and a bit GB-wide-party state then, NI as usual apart. In those days, Slab was a pretty much integral part of UK Labour (still is, really, legally, only it pretends). Edit: And it owned many of the seats now occupied by the SNP. Same with the Tories.

    Anyway night all, don't get too pished everyone in victory or sorrow.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Driver said:

    tlg86 said:

    Driver said:

    Also ITV must never be allowed to show England WC or Euro games again.

    ITV has first pick of the second round games, BBC the first pick in the quarters and semis.
    No, ITV have first pick of quarters as well. England won’t be on the BBC again unless they make the semi finals.
    Do you have to a trustworthy source for that? The best I could find is https://www.totalsportal.com/football/worldcup/2022-bbc-itv-tv-schedule/
    Here you go:

    https://www.itv.com/presscentre/press-releases/itv-and-bbc-announce-world-cup-2022-coverage-schedule#

    ITV will show England’s group game against the USA and will have picks one and two of the round of 16 and first pick of the quarter-final stages.
  • Driver said:

    tlg86 said:

    Driver said:

    Also ITV must never be allowed to show England WC or Euro games again.

    ITV has first pick of the second round games, BBC the first pick in the quarters and semis.
    No, ITV have first pick of quarters as well. England won’t be on the BBC again unless they make the semi finals.
    Do you have to a trustworthy source for that? The best I could find is https://www.totalsportal.com/football/worldcup/2022-bbc-itv-tv-schedule/
    Plus, we [ITV] have picks one and two the round of 16 and pick one of the quarterfinals.

    https://www.itv.com/presscentre/sites/default/files/world_cup_picks_2022_bbc_and_itv.pdf
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,830
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Certainly was a heavy one here. Freezing fog from 11am onwards too. Cold.
    Best of luck on the jury.
    The thing that worries me a bit is if they try to select me for a long-running trial. I can't do that and manage the business especially as I'm also trying to sort out a family member's estate.

    But I gather the self employed can ask for an exemption on that basis.

    A nice two week trial would be fine. Longer than that and I have a problem.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,904
    edited November 2022

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter.
    I agree - serious scientists should be the only ones allowed to spread misleading information about COVID-19.

  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    tlg86 said:

    Driver said:

    Also ITV must never be allowed to show England WC or Euro games again.

    ITV has first pick of the second round games, BBC the first pick in the quarters and semis.
    No, ITV have first pick of quarters as well. England won’t be on the BBC again unless they make the semi finals.
    They’ve already got a particularly mournful Coldplay dirge lined up for the closing credits.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,830
    edited November 2022
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:


    A Conservative/SNP alliance?

    Why would they deal with a bunch of small-minded xenophobes obsessed with one issue that was officially out to bed for good ages ago and are clapped out by a long time in office?

    Which party I am talking about there I leave to your imagination...

    I know, I know - I've been pilloried repeatedly for even daring to suggest such an idea as it seems the ultimate heresy but as the song goes, I can't get it out of my head.

    I've often said the status quo suits both the Conservatives and SNP quite well - would Sturgeon find it as easy to demonise a Labour Government in Westminster as she can a Conservative Government?
    No.

    Would she retain her leadership for five minutes or the SNP a single seat at the following election if they propped up the Tories?

    Also no.

    This would suit the SNP (and her) even less well.

    The minor detail that the SNP are very like the Tories in many crucial respects makes it all the more important to keep a healthy distance from them.
    Yes, you're right of course but what price would the Conservatives be willing to pay to remain in power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?

    What price would Labour be willing to pay to take power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?
    There is no price the Conservatives could offer that the SNP could afford. Not even an instant referendum, as their credibility would be so shattered who would believe their prospectus for independence (which wasn't notable for credibility to start with)?

    It would be the Liberal Democrats on crack, it really would.

    Starmer also therefore has the advantage that he can ask the SNP, very sweetly, if they are happy with a Tory Government and if not, why are they not voting to turf it out and put him in?
    OTOH Mr Starmer is rapidly becoming a sort of sensible boring Tory government, wearing more UJs than Mr Murray I and going on and on about preserving the heritage of Brexit. So ...
    So he has all the advantages of the Tories from the SNP point of view without the major drawback of actually being one?
    I think that's a bit too, erm, quixotic even from you.

    The real, underlying problem is not north of the border.

    It's the fact that under most - though not all - scenarios Labour dependence on the SNP would imply a situation where, in England or more so E&W, they'd be outnumbered by the Tories (a few LDs and others aside). I can't see how that is workable under EVEL or the SNP's much longer-standing doctrine of doing the same years before the Tories instituted it. It's going to be an absolute horror show with a de factor E or E&W parliament under a UK government of a different colour. But that's normal for the rest of the UK anyway. Just that the English aren't used to it.
    It's happened many times, just not recently. It happened in 1974, 1964 and 1950, for example.
    Yes, that's true, but the UK was much more of a 2 and a bit GB-wide-party state then, NI as usual apart. In those days, Slab was a pretty much integral part of UK Labour (still is, really, legally, only it pretends).

    Anyway night all, don't get too pished everyone in victory or sorrow.
    Northern Ireland was not 'apart' until 1973, while technically the Scottish Unionists were a separate party from the Conservatives until 1965.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    USA win.
    Better team tonight. Second best in the group overall too.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,044
    tlg86 said:

    Driver said:

    tlg86 said:

    Driver said:

    Also ITV must never be allowed to show England WC or Euro games again.

    ITV has first pick of the second round games, BBC the first pick in the quarters and semis.
    No, ITV have first pick of quarters as well. England won’t be on the BBC again unless they make the semi finals.
    Do you have to a trustworthy source for that? The best I could find is https://www.totalsportal.com/football/worldcup/2022-bbc-itv-tv-schedule/
    Here you go:

    https://www.itv.com/presscentre/press-releases/itv-and-bbc-announce-world-cup-2022-coverage-schedule#

    ITV will show England’s group game against the USA and will have picks one and two of the round of 16 and first pick of the quarter-final stages.
    Ah, we're fucked.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,727
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    England are odd. It’s like they get bored, then wake up and do something excellent and then switch off again. Weird.

    Tournament football. No point playing three stunning games in the group, only to go out in the round of 16.
    Exactly. We have a certain amount of good stuff in us and need to use it efficiently. Otherwise it's like piling up the votes in your safe seats.

    3 goals now and that is enough. I do NOT want to see more in this match.
    I don't think it works like that.
    No amount of storing up excess goals on BBC matches is going to make them flow on ITV.
    It does but you're right to highlight the itv point as well. It's a problem. The Senegal match will be tense. Think we'll squeak it though. Then we have the beeb when we need them most v France in the quarters. Then after that you just need the breaks. This is on.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,727
    Driver said:

    I'd rather have England v Senegal on ITV and a potential England v France on BBC than vice versa...

    For sure.
  • Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    Don't forget Elvis Presley. He has a very welsh look and his name is from the Presseli Hills ( this is actually true ).
    But Presley is an Anglicisation of the German Bressler.
    Fwiw I think Elvis also had English, Scots, Irish and Cherokee heritage, but not Welsh afaik.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,448
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:


    A Conservative/SNP alliance?

    Why would they deal with a bunch of small-minded xenophobes obsessed with one issue that was officially out to bed for good ages ago and are clapped out by a long time in office?

    Which party I am talking about there I leave to your imagination...

    I know, I know - I've been pilloried repeatedly for even daring to suggest such an idea as it seems the ultimate heresy but as the song goes, I can't get it out of my head.

    I've often said the status quo suits both the Conservatives and SNP quite well - would Sturgeon find it as easy to demonise a Labour Government in Westminster as she can a Conservative Government?
    No.

    Would she retain her leadership for five minutes or the SNP a single seat at the following election if they propped up the Tories?

    Also no.

    This would suit the SNP (and her) even less well.

    The minor detail that the SNP are very like the Tories in many crucial respects makes it all the more important to keep a healthy distance from them.
    Yes, you're right of course but what price would the Conservatives be willing to pay to remain in power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?

    What price would Labour be willing to pay to take power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?
    There is no price the Conservatives could offer that the SNP could afford. Not even an instant referendum, as their credibility would be so shattered who would believe their prospectus for independence (which wasn't notable for credibility to start with)?

    It would be the Liberal Democrats on crack, it really would.

    Starmer also therefore has the advantage that he can ask the SNP, very sweetly, if they are happy with a Tory Government and if not, why are they not voting to turf it out and put him in?
    OTOH Mr Starmer is rapidly becoming a sort of sensible boring Tory government, wearing more UJs than Mr Murray I and going on and on about preserving the heritage of Brexit. So ...
    So he has all the advantages of the Tories from the SNP point of view without the major drawback of actually being one?
    I think that's a bit too, erm, quixotic even from you.

    The real, underlying problem is not north of the border.

    It's the fact that under most - though not all - scenarios Labour dependence on the SNP would imply a situation where, in England or more so E&W, they'd be outnumbered by the Tories (a few LDs and others aside). I can't see how that is workable under EVEL or the SNP's much longer-standing doctrine of doing the same years before the Tories instituted it. It's going to be an absolute horror show with a de factor E or E&W parliament under a UK government of a different colour. But that's normal for the rest of the UK anyway. Just that the English aren't used to it.
    It's happened many times, just not recently. It happened in 1974, 1964 and 1950, for example.
    Yes, that's true, but the UK was much more of a 2 and a bit GB-wide-party state then, NI as usual apart. In those days, Slab was a pretty much integral part of UK Labour (still is, really, legally, only it pretends).

    Anyway night all, don't get too pished everyone in victory or sorrow.
    Northern Ireland was not 'apart' until 1973, while technically the Scottish Unionists were a separate party from the Conservatives until 1965.
    Quite so, but only in a fairly academic sense. And you've gto Welsh Labour operating a distinct government in Wales, too, and so on, in a way that didn't happen then. Very different perceptions. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens in that situation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,830
    edited November 2022
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:


    A Conservative/SNP alliance?

    Why would they deal with a bunch of small-minded xenophobes obsessed with one issue that was officially out to bed for good ages ago and are clapped out by a long time in office?

    Which party I am talking about there I leave to your imagination...

    I know, I know - I've been pilloried repeatedly for even daring to suggest such an idea as it seems the ultimate heresy but as the song goes, I can't get it out of my head.

    I've often said the status quo suits both the Conservatives and SNP quite well - would Sturgeon find it as easy to demonise a Labour Government in Westminster as she can a Conservative Government?
    No.

    Would she retain her leadership for five minutes or the SNP a single seat at the following election if they propped up the Tories?

    Also no.

    This would suit the SNP (and her) even less well.

    The minor detail that the SNP are very like the Tories in many crucial respects makes it all the more important to keep a healthy distance from them.
    Yes, you're right of course but what price would the Conservatives be willing to pay to remain in power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?

    What price would Labour be willing to pay to take power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?
    There is no price the Conservatives could offer that the SNP could afford. Not even an instant referendum, as their credibility would be so shattered who would believe their prospectus for independence (which wasn't notable for credibility to start with)?

    It would be the Liberal Democrats on crack, it really would.

    Starmer also therefore has the advantage that he can ask the SNP, very sweetly, if they are happy with a Tory Government and if not, why are they not voting to turf it out and put him in?
    OTOH Mr Starmer is rapidly becoming a sort of sensible boring Tory government, wearing more UJs than Mr Murray I and going on and on about preserving the heritage of Brexit. So ...
    So he has all the advantages of the Tories from the SNP point of view without the major drawback of actually being one?
    I think that's a bit too, erm, quixotic even from you.

    The real, underlying problem is not north of the border.

    It's the fact that under most - though not all - scenarios Labour dependence on the SNP would imply a situation where, in England or more so E&W, they'd be outnumbered by the Tories (a few LDs and others aside). I can't see how that is workable under EVEL or the SNP's much longer-standing doctrine of doing the same years before the Tories instituted it. It's going to be an absolute horror show with a de factor E or E&W parliament under a UK government of a different colour. But that's normal for the rest of the UK anyway. Just that the English aren't used to it.
    It's happened many times, just not recently. It happened in 1974, 1964 and 1950, for example.
    Yes, that's true, but the UK was much more of a 2 and a bit GB-wide-party state then, NI as usual apart. In those days, Slab was a pretty much integral part of UK Labour (still is, really, legally, only it pretends).

    Anyway night all, don't get too pished everyone in victory or sorrow.
    Northern Ireland was not 'apart' until 1973, while technically the Scottish Unionists were a separate party from the Conservatives until 1965.
    Quite so, but only in a fairly academic sense. And you've gto Welsh Labour operating a distinct government in Wales, too, and so on, in a way that didn't happen then. Very different perceptions. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens in that situation.
    I am assuming it will be chaos unless the Liberal Democrats have a totally unexpected revival. But there are no circumstances I can see where the SNP would prop up or appear to prop up or even passively allow a Tory government to be propped up. You support them and I don't - if I'm wrong please enlighten me!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,727
    France quarter on ITV? - Oh.

    Let me have a think.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Andy_JS said:
    And so the hunt is on for the Whitest and least White places in the country...Workington and Ilford South.

    The former should be a Labour gain at the next GE even if Keir is not the second coming, they held it from 1979-2019.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,261
    edited November 2022

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    Don't forget Elvis Presley. He has a very welsh look and his name is from the Presseli Hills ( this is actually true ).
    But Presley is an Anglicisation of the German Bressler.
    Fwiw I think Elvis also had English, Scots, Irish and Cherokee heritage, but not Welsh afaik.

    Don't tell them in Pembrokeshire. There's a Welsh academic pointing out the very curious coincidence that in the Preseli Hills, there's a very old church of St Elvis. He apparently has good reason to think that the family was originally from there and handing down local names, rather than a Scottish Presley.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    ydoethur said:

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    How could you possibly have missed me out? :smile:
    You're Welsh?!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    ydoethur said:

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    How could you possibly have missed me out? :smile:
    Wait. You mean you're not Dr. Bassey after all? Shirley, you can't be serious?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Lots of chatter on the weather forums about the upcoming. Turning colder with a chance of much much colder (think 2010 - very cold late November into December). Certainly been mild up to now.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,263
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Certainly was a heavy one here. Freezing fog from 11am onwards too. Cold.
    Best of luck on the jury.
    The thing that worries me a bit is if they try to select me for a long-running trial. I can't do that and manage the business especially as I'm also trying to sort out a family member's estate.

    But I gather the self employed can ask for an exemption on that basis.

    A nice two week trial would be fine. Longer than that and I have a problem.
    I've had to do it once. First case, we were discharged after a few minutes after one of the jurors passed a note to the judge saying that she knew the defendant.

    Second case. Drugs. Dealing. Lasted a day and a half. Guilty. Lots of previous. Hot prosecuting barrister.

    That was it.
  • ydoethur said:

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    How could you possibly have missed me out? :smile:
    I don't like to troll fellow PBers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,830

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Lots of chatter on the weather forums about the upcoming. Turning colder with a chance of much much colder (think 2010 - very cold late November into December). Certainly been mild up to now.
    Then I need to make the rounds of local businesses and see if I can scrounge some surplus pallets to burn.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,830
    edited November 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    How could you possibly have missed me out? :smile:
    Wait. You mean you're not Dr. Bassey after all? Shirley, you can't be serious?
    No.

    But I am a brilliant pianist and organist, I have a gold finger...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,727

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    Don't forget Elvis Presley. He has a very welsh look and his name is from the Presseli Hills ( this is actually true ).
    But Presley is an Anglicisation of the German Bressler.
    Fwiw I think Elvis also had English, Scots, Irish and Cherokee heritage, but not Welsh afaik.

    Don't tell them in Pembrokeshire. There's a Welsh academic pointing out the curious coincidence that in the Preseli Hills, there's a very old church of St Elvis. He apparently has good reason to think that the family was originally from there and handing down local names, not a Scottish Presley.
    I can certainly imagine him covering The Green Green Grass Of Home. He'd do it brilliantly. In fact did he?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    England imperious.

    Senegal will be tough but let’s do it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,263
    dixiedean said:

    USA win.
    Better team tonight. Second best in the group overall too.

    They'll not be doing the Ayatollah in the streets of Cardiff or Tehran tonight.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    kinabalu said:

    France quarter on ITV? - Oh.

    Let me have a think.

    Amazing that there are Tories who want to get rid of the BBC.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    The curse of ITV was exorcised on 7 July 2021.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    The most Irish constituency? Islington North.

    I must say, the census results shows my recent experience with a racist taxi driver indicates he was, amazingly, completely off base about the ethnic makeup of his constituency.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    How could you possibly have missed me out? :smile:
    Wait. You mean you're not Dr. Bassey after all? Shirley, you can't be serious?
    No.

    But I am a brilliant pianist and organist, I have a gold finger...
    That must have cost a fortune, big spender!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    How could you possibly have missed me out? :smile:
    You're Welsh?!
    It’s well hidden
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
  • kle4 said:

    The most Irish constituency? Islington North.

    I must say, the census results shows my recent experience with a racist taxi driver indicates he was, amazingly, completely off base about the ethnic makeup of his constituency.

    That's odd. Racists are usually so well informed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited November 2022
    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,944
    edited November 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    How could you possibly have missed me out? :smile:
    I'm surprised you aren't hiding behind the sofa. Wales have been poor this world cup, eclipsed in their uselessness only by Mark Drakeford, and Wayne Pivac's squad. I don't blame Rob Page, he has had to work with donkeys, and for the most part old donkeys at that.

    Forget the 4/4 grandparents' Burry Port heritage, from the fiftieth minute, I was a Brummie, born and bred. INGERLAND!

    The biggest relief of the night was the cheating Iranians got their comeuppance.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Lots of chatter on the weather forums about the upcoming. Turning colder with a chance of much much colder (think 2010 - very cold late November into December). Certainly been mild up to now.
    Then I need to make the rounds of local businesses and see if I can scrounge some surplus pallets to burn.
    I would. No guarantees in weather forecasting but it looks pretty likely turning cold for a while now. Even the BBC have mentioned it, and they rarely do so unless they are pretty sure.
  • Scotland fans currently searching for the Senegal flag for their Twitter bios.

    https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1597698687316074496
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700

    The curse of ITV was exorcised on 7 July 2021.

    Did you not see Friday nights horror show?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Based on that I put £20 on England losing by 4 clear goals tonight at 350-1. He’s a bastard that one. I was spending the money.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
  • DougSeal said:

    Based on that I put £20 on England losing by 4 clear goals tonight at 350-1. He’s a bastard that one. I was spending the money.
    I hear that Thurrock Council are looking for someone new to run their finances.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807

    The curse of ITV was exorcised on 7 July 2021.

    Did you not see Friday nights horror show?
    I think the blame for that lies with England not ITV.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,830

    ydoethur said:

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    How could you possibly have missed me out? :smile:
    I'm surprised you aren't hiding behind the sofa. Wales have been poor this world cup, eclipsed in their uselessness only by Mark Drakeford, and Wayne Pivac's squad. I don't blame Rob Page, he has had to work with donkeys, and for the most part old donkeys at that.

    Forget the 4/4 grandparents' Burry Port heritage, from the fiftieth minute, I was a Brummie, born and bred. INGERLAND!

    The biggest relief of the night was the cheating Iranians got their comeuppance.
    Surprised? Given my total lack of interest in football?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,448
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:


    A Conservative/SNP alliance?

    Why would they deal with a bunch of small-minded xenophobes obsessed with one issue that was officially out to bed for good ages ago and are clapped out by a long time in office?

    Which party I am talking about there I leave to your imagination...

    I know, I know - I've been pilloried repeatedly for even daring to suggest such an idea as it seems the ultimate heresy but as the song goes, I can't get it out of my head.

    I've often said the status quo suits both the Conservatives and SNP quite well - would Sturgeon find it as easy to demonise a Labour Government in Westminster as she can a Conservative Government?
    No.

    Would she retain her leadership for five minutes or the SNP a single seat at the following election if they propped up the Tories?

    Also no.

    This would suit the SNP (and her) even less well.

    The minor detail that the SNP are very like the Tories in many crucial respects makes it all the more important to keep a healthy distance from them.
    Yes, you're right of course but what price would the Conservatives be willing to pay to remain in power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?

    What price would Labour be willing to pay to take power if joining forces with the SNP would provide a working majority?
    There is no price the Conservatives could offer that the SNP could afford. Not even an instant referendum, as their credibility would be so shattered who would believe their prospectus for independence (which wasn't notable for credibility to start with)?

    It would be the Liberal Democrats on crack, it really would.

    Starmer also therefore has the advantage that he can ask the SNP, very sweetly, if they are happy with a Tory Government and if not, why are they not voting to turf it out and put him in?
    OTOH Mr Starmer is rapidly becoming a sort of sensible boring Tory government, wearing more UJs than Mr Murray I and going on and on about preserving the heritage of Brexit. So ...
    So he has all the advantages of the Tories from the SNP point of view without the major drawback of actually being one?
    I think that's a bit too, erm, quixotic even from you.

    The real, underlying problem is not north of the border.

    It's the fact that under most - though not all - scenarios Labour dependence on the SNP would imply a situation where, in England or more so E&W, they'd be outnumbered by the Tories (a few LDs and others aside). I can't see how that is workable under EVEL or the SNP's much longer-standing doctrine of doing the same years before the Tories instituted it. It's going to be an absolute horror show with a de factor E or E&W parliament under a UK government of a different colour. But that's normal for the rest of the UK anyway. Just that the English aren't used to it.
    It's happened many times, just not recently. It happened in 1974, 1964 and 1950, for example.
    Yes, that's true, but the UK was much more of a 2 and a bit GB-wide-party state then, NI as usual apart. In those days, Slab was a pretty much integral part of UK Labour (still is, really, legally, only it pretends).

    Anyway night all, don't get too pished everyone in victory or sorrow.
    Northern Ireland was not 'apart' until 1973, while technically the Scottish Unionists were a separate party from the Conservatives until 1965.
    Quite so, but only in a fairly academic sense. And you've gto Welsh Labour operating a distinct government in Wales, too, and so on, in a way that didn't happen then. Very different perceptions. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens in that situation.
    I am assuming it will be chaos unless the Liberal Democrats have a totally unexpected revival. But there are no circumstances I can see where the SNP would prop up or appear to prop up or even passively allow a Tory government to be propped up. You support them and I don't - if I'm wrong please enlighten me!
    I can't see it either. Most that would happen would be voting on specific bills on their merits (or otherwise), or (indeed) not at all when they are on devolved matters not pertaining to Scotland. Like today in fact.

    The Scots have seen what happened not only to the LDs in Westminster in 2015 - but don't forget also what happened in Scotland as well: to Labour in the same elections after Better Together, and the LDs (previously) after their coalition with Slab. That's a lot more recent than 1974. And the DUP more recently jsut across the watter.

    Mr Starmer's recent shifts have made the same more likely to happen with Labour, it seems to me. And Slab are far more allied to the Tories in Scotland than to the SNP/SG side of matters than they were in the 1970s, so trying to go on about Mr Callaghan's fall won't avail them. It is ancient history for most of us.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,204

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Certainly was a heavy one here. Freezing fog from 11am onwards too. Cold.
    Best of luck on the jury.
    The thing that worries me a bit is if they try to select me for a long-running trial. I can't do that and manage the business especially as I'm also trying to sort out a family member's estate.

    But I gather the self employed can ask for an exemption on that basis.

    A nice two week trial would be fine. Longer than that and I have a problem.
    I've had to do it once. First case, we were discharged after a few minutes after one of the jurors passed a note to the judge saying that she knew the defendant.

    Second case. Drugs. Dealing. Lasted a day and a half. Guilty. Lots of previous. Hot prosecuting barrister.

    That was it.
    Mrs Foxy was once on a Jury where a major factor in an alleged assault was interpretation of the Offside Rule. Interesting case, but only lasted a few days.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Based on that I put £20 on England losing by 4 clear goals tonight at 350-1. He’s a bastard that one. I was spending the money.
    I hear that Thurrock Council are looking for someone new to run their finances.
    My CV’s on its way.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,448
    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    I have huge sympathy for the immune compromised. I think they have not been well served by some of their advocates though, such as the loudest voices on twitter. There are some who have not left their homes for three years. That’s not living, at best it’s surviving.
    Far too many of these scientists have thrived on the adulation of sycophantic fans, and have lost touch with reality.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,448
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Certainly was a heavy one here. Freezing fog from 11am onwards too. Cold.
    Best of luck on the jury.
    The thing that worries me a bit is if they try to select me for a long-running trial. I can't do that and manage the business especially as I'm also trying to sort out a family member's estate.

    But I gather the self employed can ask for an exemption on that basis.

    A nice two week trial would be fine. Longer than that and I have a problem.
    I've had to do it once. First case, we were discharged after a few minutes after one of the jurors passed a note to the judge saying that she knew the defendant.

    Second case. Drugs. Dealing. Lasted a day and a half. Guilty. Lots of previous. Hot prosecuting barrister.

    That was it.
    Mrs Foxy was once on a Jury where a major factor in an alleged assault was interpretation of the Offside Rule. Interesting case, but only lasted a few days.
    Kind of her to take it so Ydoethur didn't - that would have bored him to tears in half an hour.
  • dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    To be honest, there has been a number of disappointing teams.

    France and Brazil just look miles ahead of the rest.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I’m not sure twitter really counts as public engagement, although maybe I’m not trying hard enough? I’m not sure putting ‘I post lots on twitter’ will wash a5 the EPSRC.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Certainly was a heavy one here. Freezing fog from 11am onwards too. Cold.
    Best of luck on the jury.
    The thing that worries me a bit is if they try to select me for a long-running trial. I can't do that and manage the business especially as I'm also trying to sort out a family member's estate.

    But I gather the self employed can ask for an exemption on that basis.

    A nice two week trial would be fine. Longer than that and I have a problem.
    I've had to do it once. First case, we were discharged after a few minutes after one of the jurors passed a note to the judge saying that she knew the defendant.

    Second case. Drugs. Dealing. Lasted a day and a half. Guilty. Lots of previous. Hot prosecuting barrister.

    That was it.

    Mrs Foxy was once on a Jury where a major factor in an alleged assault was interpretation of the Offside Rule. Interesting case, but only lasted a few days.
    Yes. It’s a common law defence to assault that the attacker, when in the victim’s half, must have at least two potential victims, including goalkeeper, between him and the victim’s mouth when a punch is thrown, or the prosecution case fails.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    The migration to another platform has done wonders for my mental health. All the brick bats have flown, laden with their doom-mongering, to colder climes. Godspeed, brick bats....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Surely Qatar? Or are you suggesting higher expectation on Wales?
  • ydoethur said:

    Shirley Bassey, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Sheen, Alex Jones, Sir Tom Jones, Cerys Matthews, John Cale, Neil Kinnock, Charlotte Church, Bonnie Tyler, The Manic Street Preachers, and David Lloyd George can you hear me? your boys took one hell of a beating.

    How could you possibly have missed me out? :smile:
    I don't like to troll fellow PBers.
    Ha

    Ha
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,204
    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I'm looking forward to the oncoming HE financial apocalypse. Oxford, Cambridge and Hull to survive.

    WTF position have we got to where channel engagement matters. Sod the lot of them. Wally Poly indeed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,448

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I’m not sure twitter really counts as public engagement, although maybe I’m not trying hard enough? I’m not sure putting ‘I post lots on twitter’ will wash a5 the EPSRC.
    Can't see wht not. In the old days it was the odd article in New Sci (etc). Now it seems to be everything. Reports in the Graun or DM (had both myself in my time), systematic central PR teams with pres releases ...At least linking to your latest paper or preprint and saying a sentence or two on what is in it, or your blog about ditto, would certainly be seen as part of the wider effort, both in terms of central output, and in the general ambition of any thrusting modern VC to be seen to run a modern uni. Open Access is one thing but you need people to know about the paper.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    To be honest, there has been a number of disappointing teams.

    France and Brazil just look miles ahead of the rest.
    I meant in terms of expectations though.
    They were considered to be a possible last 16 chance. But they've been second best in all three games really.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,263
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Certainly was a heavy one here. Freezing fog from 11am onwards too. Cold.
    Best of luck on the jury.
    The thing that worries me a bit is if they try to select me for a long-running trial. I can't do that and manage the business especially as I'm also trying to sort out a family member's estate.

    But I gather the self employed can ask for an exemption on that basis.

    A nice two week trial would be fine. Longer than that and I have a problem.
    I've had to do it once. First case, we were discharged after a few minutes after one of the jurors passed a note to the judge saying that she knew the defendant.

    Second case. Drugs. Dealing. Lasted a day and a half. Guilty. Lots of previous. Hot prosecuting barrister.

    That was it.
    Mrs Foxy was once on a Jury where a major factor in an alleged assault was interpretation of the Offside Rule. Interesting case, but only lasted a few days.
    If it had lasted any longer the jurors would have been flagging.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Surely Qatar? Or are you suggesting higher expectation on Wales?
    The latter. No one seriously expected Qatar to progress from their group.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I'm looking forward to the oncoming HE financial apocalypse. Oxford, Cambridge and Hull to survive.

    WTF position have we got to where channel engagement matters. Sod the lot of them. Wally Poly indeed.
    Only two of those are great universities.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I’m not sure twitter really counts as public engagement, although maybe I’m not trying hard enough? I’m not sure putting ‘I post lots on twitter’ will wash a5 the EPSRC.
    Can't see wht not. In the old days it was the odd article in New Sci (etc). Now it seems to be everything. Reports in the Graun or DM (had both myself in my time), systematic central PR teams with pres releases ...At least linking to your latest paper or preprint and saying a sentence or two on what is in it, or your blog about ditto, would certainly be seen as part of the wider effort, both in terms of central output, and in the general ambition of any thrusting modern VC to be seen to run a modern uni. Open Access is one thing but you need people to know about the paper.
    What a load of balls. The sooner the faux HE system collapses the better.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,204
    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Certainly was a heavy one here. Freezing fog from 11am onwards too. Cold.
    Best of luck on the jury.
    The thing that worries me a bit is if they try to select me for a long-running trial. I can't do that and manage the business especially as I'm also trying to sort out a family member's estate.

    But I gather the self employed can ask for an exemption on that basis.

    A nice two week trial would be fine. Longer than that and I have a problem.
    I've had to do it once. First case, we were discharged after a few minutes after one of the jurors passed a note to the judge saying that she knew the defendant.

    Second case. Drugs. Dealing. Lasted a day and a half. Guilty. Lots of previous. Hot prosecuting barrister.

    That was it.

    Mrs Foxy was once on a Jury where a major factor in an alleged assault was interpretation of the Offside Rule. Interesting case, but only lasted a few days.
    Yes. It’s a common law defence to assault that the attacker, when in the victim’s half, must have at least two potential victims, including goalkeeper, between him and the victim’s mouth when a punch is thrown, or the prosecution case fails.
    I don't think there is a requirement that one of the defending players has to be a goalie, and the attacker has to be active:

    https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142

    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I'm looking forward to the oncoming HE financial apocalypse. Oxford, Cambridge and Hull to survive.

    WTF position have we got to where channel engagement matters. Sod the lot of them. Wally Poly indeed.
    Only two of those are great universities.
    Cambridge is a complete dump.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I’m not sure twitter really counts as public engagement, although maybe I’m not trying hard enough? I’m not sure putting ‘I post lots on twitter’ will wash a5 the EPSRC.
    Can't see wht not. In the old days it was the odd article in New Sci (etc). Now it seems to be everything. Reports in the Graun or DM (had both myself in my time), systematic central PR teams with pres releases ...At least linking to your latest paper or preprint and saying a sentence or two on what is in it, or your blog about ditto, would certainly be seen as part of the wider effort, both in terms of central output, and in the general ambition of any thrusting modern VC to be seen to run a modern uni. Open Access is one thing but you need people to know about the paper.
    Yes, I have the press team on my back about a paper (still not submitted). It’s an interesting point about twitter. One good thing is it is two way - engagement should be more than just dissemination of research. I am just not ready to write Twitter into my public engagement strategy, but perhaps I should be more open?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,263

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
    Suchet is a fine actor. I've seen him on stage. Excellent.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Canada also missed a penalty against Belgium in a game they dominated for a fair while before losing 1-0.
    They also had a good go with a positive, vibrant attacking mindset in both games.
    I don't think many gave them much hope of going through either. They didn't go out wondering.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited November 2022

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    To be honest, there has been a number of disappointing teams.

    France and Brazil just look miles ahead of the rest.
    I meant in terms of expectations though.
    They were considered to be a possible last 16 chance. But they've been second best in all three games really.
    Arguably they’ve had one good half out of six. I think the end of Bale and Ramsey can’t come soon enough. Time for a new generation.
    But I have to say this, the Welsh squad included at least one League 2 player (Swindon’s Jonny Williams). Not enough depth.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, while there was nothing interesting happening in the world, I checked my power usage for the last two months.

    Gas - down by 60% on last year this month, 95% for October.
    Electricity - down by 55% for this month, 50% last month.

    This is despite the fact I am now based at home five days a week, although the fact I had to spend a week elsewhere may have massaged the figures a bit.

    The real key is that this must have been the mildest autumn ever. It's been more like a spring.

    There is a certain grim irony that Russia, one of the worst polluters in the world, may be about to face a financial Armageddon and fail in its aim of hydrocarbon blackmail due to global warming.

    I take it you weren't standing at a bus stop in Northumberland at 7:30 this morning?
    It was brassick.
    That's next week (well, Cannock not Northumberland) when I'm doing jury service at Stafford Crown Court.

    It has been colder in the last few days, but we haven't had a single frost here yet. And as there won't be one tonight, that means no frost in October or November, which is utterly unheard of for this area (which is cold and exposed on a major hillside).
    Certainly was a heavy one here. Freezing fog from 11am onwards too. Cold.
    Best of luck on the jury.
    The thing that worries me a bit is if they try to select me for a long-running trial. I can't do that and manage the business especially as I'm also trying to sort out a family member's estate.

    But I gather the self employed can ask for an exemption on that basis.

    A nice two week trial would be fine. Longer than that and I have a problem.
    I've had to do it once. First case, we were discharged after a few minutes after one of the jurors passed a note to the judge saying that she knew the defendant.

    Second case. Drugs. Dealing. Lasted a day and a half. Guilty. Lots of previous. Hot prosecuting barrister.

    That was it.

    Mrs Foxy was once on a Jury where a major factor in an alleged assault was interpretation of the Offside Rule. Interesting case, but only lasted a few days.
    Yes. It’s a common law defence to assault that the attacker, when in the victim’s half, must have at least two potential victims, including goalkeeper, between him and the victim’s mouth when a punch is thrown, or the prosecution case fails.
    I don't think there is a requirement that one of the defending players has to be a goalie, and the attacker has to be active:

    https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside
    That’s the FA statutory interpretation. The common law defence still stands.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,204
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Canada also missed a penalty against Belgium in a game they dominated for a fair while before losing 1-0.
    They also had a good go with a positive, vibrant attacking mindset in both games.
    I don't think many gave them much hope of going through either. They didn't go out wondering.
    Did anyone realistically expect Wales to progress? Scotland never have. Indeed that reminds me, how are things going in Scotlands group this World Cup?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I'm looking forward to the oncoming HE financial apocalypse. Oxford, Cambridge and Hull to survive.

    WTF position have we got to where channel engagement matters. Sod the lot of them. Wally Poly indeed.
    Only two of those are great universities.
    Cambridge is a complete dump.
    You are Gen. Melchett and I claim my 5 square yards of France.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited November 2022
    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    I thought that started really well in series one but, like a lot of American TV, ran out of steam.
    In 140 ish episodes that will happen, but 100 are still good.

    Whilst I like a mini series, I find they tend to get much more overhyped than american length shows, even though good crime dramas - short and long - are extremely common, and many have excellent acting.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    The curse of ITV was exorcised on 7 July 2021.

    Did you not see Friday nights horror show?
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals.

    Fake news.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,988

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Manchester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    Who cares?
    Should we not worry that Sir Keir comes out in agreement for fear of Farage stealing his Red Wallers?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,674

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
    As a teenager I saw Brett on stage as Holmes, and got to meet him at the stage door. There are very few people I've met who are genuinely impressive. He was one of them.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
    But not a Conservative one.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I'm looking forward to the oncoming HE financial apocalypse. Oxford, Cambridge and Hull to survive.

    WTF position have we got to where channel engagement matters. Sod the lot of them. Wally Poly indeed.
    Only two of those are great universities.
    Cambridge is a complete dump.
    You are Gen. Melchett and I claim my 5 square yards of France.
    Only if you have Machine guns for Harrow full backs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,448

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I’m not sure twitter really counts as public engagement, although maybe I’m not trying hard enough? I’m not sure putting ‘I post lots on twitter’ will wash a5 the EPSRC.
    Can't see wht not. In the old days it was the odd article in New Sci (etc). Now it seems to be everything. Reports in the Graun or DM (had both myself in my time), systematic central PR teams with pres releases ...At least linking to your latest paper or preprint and saying a sentence or two on what is in it, or your blog about ditto, would certainly be seen as part of the wider effort, both in terms of central output, and in the general ambition of any thrusting modern VC to be seen to run a modern uni. Open Access is one thing but you need people to know about the paper.
    Yes, I have the press team on my back about a paper (still not submitted). It’s an interesting point about twitter. One good thing is it is two way - engagement should be more than just dissemination of research. I am just not ready to write Twitter into my public engagement strategy, but perhaps I should be more open?
    Some Twitter wotsits are completely innocuous - the things some museums do about their collections and work, ditto some universities and learned societies. Simply contributing a tweet or the info for someone else to tweet about a paper that is now out on open access is entirely proper. Like a PR sent to the newspaper about interesting research or discovery. It's a force multiplier esp if the uni has coughed up for one of those lump sum open access subscriptions. Buit having to reply ... of course, if it in an official institutional address it's not your problem!

    Though Mastodon might be an option, of course.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
    Agreed. They have to play Sunday. Interesting that you have met him!

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Yeah. Just think what we could have achieved if Sam Allardyce had stayed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
    Indeed - for both of those. David Suchet should get a special mention for (nearly) completing the entire canon.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
    Take a player confident and in form every day of the week.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Qatar scored a goal against Senegal*, just saying.

    (*Kane & co. please note)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,448
    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I’m not sure twitter really counts as public engagement, although maybe I’m not trying hard enough? I’m not sure putting ‘I post lots on twitter’ will wash a5 the EPSRC.
    Can't see wht not. In the old days it was the odd article in New Sci (etc). Now it seems to be everything. Reports in the Graun or DM (had both myself in my time), systematic central PR teams with pres releases ...At least linking to your latest paper or preprint and saying a sentence or two on what is in it, or your blog about ditto, would certainly be seen as part of the wider effort, both in terms of central output, and in the general ambition of any thrusting modern VC to be seen to run a modern uni. Open Access is one thing but you need people to know about the paper.
    What a load of balls. The sooner the faux HE system collapses the better.
    Beg to differ. There is considerable merit in it, not least because the students also learn a great deal about life and work (it's part of the wider outreach skills such as lecturing and presentation that they are taught more explicitly). And in publicly funded work being brought to public notice, certainly when it is of interest, e.g. a report on a major archaeological discovery or historical study or dinosaur or whatever.

    The trouble is all the unis trying to do it all at the same time for as much as possible - but that is another matter.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,263
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Canada also missed a penalty against Belgium in a game they dominated for a fair while before losing 1-0.
    They also had a good go with a positive, vibrant attacking mindset in both games.
    I don't think many gave them much hope of going through either. They didn't go out wondering.
    Did anyone realistically expect Wales to progress? Scotland never have. Indeed that reminds me, how are things going in Scotlands group this World Cup?
    Up against USA and Iran, I thought that they had a decent chance before the tournament. After the draw with USA, more so.
This discussion has been closed.