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Sunak vs. Starmer – the polling trend – politicalbetting.com

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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I'm looking forward to the oncoming HE financial apocalypse. Oxford, Cambridge and Hull to survive.

    WTF position have we got to where channel engagement matters. Sod the lot of them. Wally Poly indeed.
    Only two of those are great universities.
    Cambridge is a complete dump.
    You are Gen. Melchett and I claim my 5 square yards of France.
    “What is the scale on the map?”
    “One to one sir”
    “So the total area captured is?”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Canada also missed a penalty against Belgium in a game they dominated for a fair while before losing 1-0.
    They also had a good go with a positive, vibrant attacking mindset in both games.
    I don't think many gave them much hope of going through either. They didn't go out wondering.
    Did anyone realistically expect Wales to progress? Scotland never have. Indeed that reminds me, how are things going in Scotlands group this World Cup?
    I think it was generally considered that they and the USA would fight for second. With Iran outside contenders too. Their chances certainly weren't completely dismissed beforehand.
    I may be wrong in my recollection of that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Qatar scored a goal against Senegal*, just saying.

    (*Kane & co. please note)
    I stand corrected. So Canada might rival Qatar...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    With by far and away the best squad....

    Anyone would think its the players that make the difference.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
    Take a player confident and in form every day of the week.
    Maddison...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
    Agreed. They have to play Sunday. Interesting that you have met him!

    Was before he got the England job, ended up spending a week with him with at a very small holiday resort. Compared to some other (ex) footballers he just seemed decent family guy, Mrs U and I chatted with him and his wife, played with the kids in the pool, etc most days.

    However, best football person I have spent any time with, hands down, Sean Dyche. He is absolutely top bloke and surprisingly extremely well versed in a lot of things. All the we eat wood, bricks and nails and run through brick walls is a bit of a façade.

    This is absolutely fascinating interview with him,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn9WXJBTijE
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    from previous threads: "I am a carer" is self defining, at least in scotland, so you can all get turned into hedgehogs if you want.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
    Really? This is the best team we've had in my lifetime. Foden is Gazza cubed. And this is the first time he has started....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Foxy said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
    Take a player confident and in form every day of the week.
    Maddison...
    Yes, I’d like to see him feature but today probably a game too soon after he picked up that knock. No need to risk him today.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406

    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
    Quite. If the stories are even half true, the ‘golden generation’ that humbled Germany 5-1 and was destined to never reach past a quarter final, was accustomed to fighting like rats in a sack, and split down club lines.
    The current bunch all seem to get on. Makes a huge difference.
    Therein lies the vast majority of the battle.
    Management is about getting a bunch of disparate characters to co-operate rather than feud.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    With by far and away the best squad....

    Anyone would think its the players that make the difference.
    “By far and away the best squad” is a massive overstatement. It’s arguably not even the best squad of my lifetime on paper.
  • Foxy said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
    Take a player confident and in form every day of the week.
    Maddison...
    Yes, I’d like to see him feature but today probably a game too soon after he picked up that knock. No need to risk him today.

    I thought Kalvin Philips looked surprisingly good to say he has hardly played all season.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Foxy said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
    Take a player confident and in form every day of the week.
    Maddison...
    He’ll get 10 mins against France when we are 2-0 down.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Sad though it is for Wales, 15 other sides are going out at the group stages. England did in 2014 then made the Semi final in 2018.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
    Quite. If the stories are even half true, the ‘golden generation’ that humbled Germany 5-1 and was destined to never reach past a quarter final, was accustomed to fighting like rats in a sack, and split down club lines.
    The current bunch all seem to get on. Makes a huge difference.
    Therein lies the vast majority of the battle.
    Management is about getting a bunch of disparate characters to co-operate rather than feud.
    Player feuds are the achillies heel of the Netherlands and Belgium. Spain seems to have finally shed them, after years of undrperformance.

    The greatness of the 2016 Leicester City team was it's team ethos. The team was far greater than the sum of its parts.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    With by far and away the best squad....

    Anyone would think its the players that make the difference.
    “By far and away the best squad” is a massive overstatement. It’s arguably not even the best squad of my lifetime on paper.
    'But footballers don't play on paper, Bob'
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
    Quite. If the stories are even half true, the ‘golden generation’ that humbled Germany 5-1 and was destined to never reach past a quarter final, was accustomed to fighting like rats in a sack, and split down club lines.
    The current bunch all seem to get on. Makes a huge difference.
    Therein lies the vast majority of the battle.
    Management is about getting a bunch of disparate characters to co-operate rather than feud.
    Player feuds are the achillies heel of the Netherlands and Belgium. Spain seems to have finally shed them, after years of undrperformance.

    The greatness of the 2016 Leicester City team was it's team ethos. The team was far greater than the sum of its parts.
    Just loved that season. The sense of disbelief. And in the end the inevitability. Amazing stuff.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
    Quite. If the stories are even half true, the ‘golden generation’ that humbled Germany 5-1 and was destined to never reach past a quarter final, was accustomed to fighting like rats in a sack, and split down club lines.
    The current bunch all seem to get on. Makes a huge difference.
    Therein lies the vast majority of the battle.
    Management is about getting a bunch of disparate characters to co-operate rather than feud.
    Player feuds are the achillies heel of the Netherlands and Belgium. Spain seems to have finally shed them, after years of undrperformance.

    The greatness of the 2016 Leicester City team was it's team ethos. The team was far greater than the sum of its parts.
    Just loved that season. The sense of disbelief. And in the end the inevitability. Amazing stuff.
    Not as much as I loved it, and not just for my £2 e/w at 3000/1 🙂
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    With by far and away the best squad....

    Anyone would think its the players that make the difference.
    “By far and away the best squad” is a massive overstatement. It’s arguably not even the best squad of my lifetime on paper.
    'But footballers don't play on paper, Bob'
    Yes, which is the whole point I’m making!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    The current England squad compared to past squads is massively imbalanced in terms of talent. We have near Brazilian levels of attacking midfielders and wingers, very good central midfielders, talented wing backs....but only one world class striker and one very good central defender and one so so defender (and no real strength in depth in those positions).

    If we look back it was common to defensively we had world class goalkeepers, plenty of options in defence and central striker, but didn't have much options in the creative midfield (and the best two midfielders of the generation hate one another and can't play together).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited November 2022
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
    Quite. If the stories are even half true, the ‘golden generation’ that humbled Germany 5-1 and was destined to never reach past a quarter final, was accustomed to fighting like rats in a sack, and split down club lines.
    The current bunch all seem to get on. Makes a huge difference.
    Therein lies the vast majority of the battle.
    Management is about getting a bunch of disparate characters to co-operate rather than feud.
    Player feuds are the achillies heel of the Netherlands and Belgium. Spain seems to have finally shed them, after years of undrperformance.

    The greatness of the 2016 Leicester City team was it's team ethos. The team was far greater than the sum of its parts.
    Clough's Forest. And Derby.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Qatar scored a goal against Senegal*, just saying.

    (*Kane & co. please note)
    I stand corrected. So Canada might rival Qatar...
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Qatar scored a goal against Senegal*, just saying.

    (*Kane & co. please note)
    I stand corrected. So Canada might rival Qatar...
    Canada are better than Qatar tbh.
    They could yet turn over Morocco
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    They got a goal!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Qatar scored a goal against Senegal*, just saying.

    (*Kane & co. please note)
    I stand corrected. So Canada might rival Qatar...
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Qatar scored a goal against Senegal*, just saying.

    (*Kane & co. please note)
    I stand corrected. So Canada might rival Qatar...
    Canada are better than Qatar tbh.
    They could yet turn over Morocco
    The Morocco that beat Belgium 2 nil?

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Sad though it is for Wales, 15 other sides are going out at the group stages. England did in 2014 then made the Semi final in 2018.

    And Wales still did better than Euro-champions, Italy!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    Later evening all :)

    Whatever happens from now on, the early rounds have confirmed the global reach of football. We've had wins for Australia, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Senegal breaking forever the domination of Europe and Latin America.

    As for England, we should score against Senegal though we may concede as well. After that, a quarter final with France (you'd think) would be a challenge followed by a semi with the winners of a Spain vs Brazil quarter final.

    It'll be a hard road but if we get to the end of it we'll deserve to party like it's on sale for £19.66.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Mortimer said:

    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
    Really? This is the best team we've had in my lifetime. Foden is Gazza cubed. And this is the first time he has started....
    Either you are 12 years old or you are suffering massively from the recency effect.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    Indeed and undefeated at this World Cup so far too, he is a better manager than he was a player
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    I don't hate him. I actually end up in the same holiday resort as him a few years back and he is a lovely chap. But he does have an issue with favouritism and a very conservative outlook.

    Lets see if he sticks with them. They were England's two best players this evening. Everybody and their dog can see that Foden is a world class player that provides a threat in multiple different ways (that no other England player can do) and it seems like Rashford has found this confidence and form.
    Rewatch the last 10 minutes on iPlayer. Listen to what the summarisers - English and Welsh - were saying. They were talking to people like you.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    edited November 2022

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
    Unarguable.

    As brilliant an actor as Ken Branagh is, he should have waited 10-15 years before taking on Poirot.

    If he'd watched the final moments of Murder on the Orient Express to see Suchet's silent portrayal of Poirot's inner turmoil even Branagh would have to concede he is not worthy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    Indeed and undefeated at this World Cup so far too, he is a better manager than he was a player
    10 year old me can never forgive him for 96, but he's turned out to be decent enough.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
    Quite. If the stories are even half true, the ‘golden generation’ that humbled Germany 5-1 and was destined to never reach past a quarter final, was accustomed to fighting like rats in a sack, and split down club lines.
    The current bunch all seem to get on. Makes a huge difference.
    Therein lies the vast majority of the battle.
    Management is about getting a bunch of disparate characters to co-operate rather than feud.
    Player feuds are the achillies heel of the Netherlands and Belgium. Spain seems to have finally shed them, after years of undrperformance.

    The greatness of the 2016 Leicester City team was it's team ethos. The team was far greater than the sum of its parts.
    But not a patch on what Cloughie got out of a team featuring Larry Lloyd, Peter Withe, Kenny Burns....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    FWIW this is my prediction wheel from Fotmob pre tournament, as per my twitter on 16 November.



    First two groups bang on, but I think it goes wrong after that.


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    I would say for whatever reason the biggest failure of the England system (I don't mean Southgate, I mean wider clubs etc) over the past 5-6 years is for whatever reason we had a whole load of young strikers that ripped it up at youth level, Abrahams, Solanke, Brewster, Lookman, Nelson, Nketiah, none are close to the England squad.

    Obviously its not uncommon for many to not make it, but these players were absolutely crushing it and not one looks like they will become a regular England player. And hence we have been left with a big gap.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited November 2022
    stodge said:

    Later evening all :)

    Whatever happens from now on, the early rounds have confirmed the global reach of football. We've had wins for Australia, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Senegal breaking forever the domination of Europe and Latin America.

    As for England, we should score against Senegal though we may concede as well. After that, a quarter final with France (you'd think) would be a challenge followed by a semi with the winners of a Spain vs Brazil quarter final.

    It'll be a hard road but if we get to the end of it we'll deserve to party like it's on sale for £19.66.

    All of those have won games before. We had S.Korea as a dubious semi finalist 20 years ago. As was earlier noted Cameroon came close to the semis in 1990.
    Yet still it is Europe and S America. We need a lot more evidence deep in the tournament to reach that conclusion.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    He’s the best England manager who isn’t Sir Alf, and even he was pretty lucky.

    What I don’t get with the Southgate-out lot is: who do they think will come in and do a better job? England have a half decent set of players, but not as strong as France, Spain or Brazil, and while Italy and Germany seem to be between eras at the moment, they typically have stronger squads too.

    We’re a second tier nation - getting to a semi and a final in the last two tournaments is impressive. Southgate’s pretty much getting the best out of these players.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wales the most disappointing team in the tournament thus far?
    I reckon you could make a serious case for that.

    Qatar: nil points and nil goals. Not great for a host.

    Canada (one of the next hosts) did at least manage one goal.
    Canada also missed a penalty against Belgium in a game they dominated for a fair while before losing 1-0.
    They also had a good go with a positive, vibrant attacking mindset in both games.
    I don't think many gave them much hope of going through either. They didn't go out wondering.
    Did anyone realistically expect Wales to progress? Scotland never have. Indeed that reminds me, how are things going in Scotlands group this World Cup?
    Up against USA and Iran, I thought that they had a decent chance before the tournament. After the draw with USA, more so.
    I doubt they’ll get a more favourable draw if they qualify again. This was their chance.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited November 2022

    I would say for whatever reason the biggest failure of the England system (I don't mean Southgate, I mean wider clubs etc) over the past 5-6 years is for whatever reason we had a whole load of young strikers that ripped it up at youth level, Abrahams, Solanke, Brewster, Lookman, Nelson, Nketiah, none are close to the England squad.

    Obviously its not uncommon for many to not make it, but these players were absolutely crushing it and not one looks like they will become a regular England player. And hence we have been left with a big gap.

    Although the injury travails of Calvert-Lewin are a mitigating factor. He was the one of them who had broken through to become the second in line behind Kane. But hasn't played half a dozen games in a row for eighteen months.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:

    Later evening all :)

    Whatever happens from now on, the early rounds have confirmed the global reach of football. We've had wins for Australia, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Senegal breaking forever the domination of Europe and Latin America.

    As for England, we should score against Senegal though we may concede as well. After that, a quarter final with France (you'd think) would be a challenge followed by a semi with the winners of a Spain vs Brazil quarter final.

    It'll be a hard road but if we get to the end of it we'll deserve to party like it's on sale for £19.66.

    All of those have won games before. We had S.Korea as a dubious semi finalist 20 years ago. As was earlier noted Cameroon came close to the semis in 1990.
    Yet still it is Europe and S America. We need a lot more evidence deep in the tournament to reach that conclusion.
    Saeed El-Owairan scored the goal of the tournament back in 1994 for Saudi.

  • dixiedean said:

    I would say for whatever reason the biggest failure of the England system (I don't mean Southgate, I mean wider clubs etc) over the past 5-6 years is for whatever reason we had a whole load of young strikers that ripped it up at youth level, Abrahams, Solanke, Brewster, Lookman, Nelson, Nketiah, none are close to the England squad.

    Obviously its not uncommon for many to not make it, but these players were absolutely crushing it and not one looks like they will become a regular England player. And hence we have been left with a big gap.

    Although the injury travails of Calvert-Lewin are a mitigating factor. He was the one who had broken through to become the second in line behind Kane. But hasn't played half a dozen games in a row for eighteen months.
    That's a fair point, although I am not sure Calvert-Lewin is world class and only really had one good season (obviously injuries not helped). He certainly be in ahead of Wilson if he had remained fit.

    But at youth level all those other players were just scoring for fun, won the U17 world cup etc. Now as I say, its hardly uncommon for players not to make it, but all of the strikers seem to be a bust. Where as midfield, Foden, Sancho, even Hudson-Odi they are either there or could be there. Smith Rowe has made it to England, as has Guehi.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
    Unarguable.

    As brilliant an actor as Ken Branagh is, he should have waited 10-15 years before taking on Poirot.

    If he'd watched the final moments of Murder on the Orient Express to see Suchet's silent portrayal of Poirot's inner turmoil even Branagh would have to concede he is not worthy.
    The KB films are awful. They must be making some money though, or they wouldn't keep being made.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Ghedebrav said:

    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:

    Later evening all :)

    Whatever happens from now on, the early rounds have confirmed the global reach of football. We've had wins for Australia, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Senegal breaking forever the domination of Europe and Latin America.

    As for England, we should score against Senegal though we may concede as well. After that, a quarter final with France (you'd think) would be a challenge followed by a semi with the winners of a Spain vs Brazil quarter final.

    It'll be a hard road but if we get to the end of it we'll deserve to party like it's on sale for £19.66.

    All of those have won games before. We had S.Korea as a dubious semi finalist 20 years ago. As was earlier noted Cameroon came close to the semis in 1990.
    Yet still it is Europe and S America. We need a lot more evidence deep in the tournament to reach that conclusion.
    Saeed El-Owairan scored the goal of the tournament back in 1994 for Saudi.

    Yeah. And they made the last 16 that year.
  • HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    Nope. The winner immigrants will discover the joys of godlessly getting their knobs out in a secular society, the no-mates loser allah enthusiasts will suicide bomb themselves to extinction. Let's face it, God does not hate queers, or not as much as He hates sanctimonious bigots.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    With by far and away the best squad....

    Anyone would think its the players that make the difference.
    “By far and away the best squad” is a massive overstatement. It’s arguably not even the best squad of my lifetime on paper.
    All this grudging nonsense about Southgate shows how he's raised the bar compared with what we'd got used to.
    The ‘Golden Generation’ (which was a stick the media invented to beat the players with) were probably a better group of players, or at least there were more genuinely outstanding players than today. But they didn’t play as a team, and and in some cases resented playing for England.

    Also Shteve McLaren was a terrible manager.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited November 2022

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
    Unarguable.

    As brilliant an actor as Ken Branagh is, he should have waited 10-15 years before taking on Poirot.

    If he'd watched the final moments of Murder on the Orient Express to see Suchet's silent portrayal of Poirot's inner turmoil even Branagh would have to concede he is not worthy.
    The KB films are awful. They must be making some money though, or they wouldn't keep being made.
    Murder on the Orient Express certainly did. From wiki

    Budget $55 million
    Box office $352.8 million

    Death on the Nile not so much

    Budget $90 million
    Box office $137.3 million

    In Hollywood terms, with marketing costs, that's probably a loss, so somewhat surprising it is getting a sequel, as Death on the Nile felt quite final to me.
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mortimer said:

    Under the leadership of billionaire Elon Musk, social media platform Twitter has abandoned its efforts to prevent the spread of dangerous COVID-19 misinformation on its platform, dismaying experts who say false and misleading health information can harm individuals and put lives at risk.

    "Effective November 23, 2022, Twitter is no longer enforcing the COVID-19 misleading information policy," the company noted in various places on its website.


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/musks-twitter-abandons-covid-misinfo-policy-shirking-huge-responsibility/

    Time for all serious scientists to abandon Twitter. Significant research is just going to get rubbished for the lolz.

    Dumbing down of the planet: Exhibit A - Twitter.
    Covid absurdities were largely confined to twitter. Those calling for perennial lock downs were big tweeters.

    The sensible 'ya what?' crowd were more confined to the cabinet, and the Tory benches.


    They still are. Gurdisani, Bar-Yam, Greenhalgh, Pagel, Felgl-Ding, Michie…all still at it although ostentatiously migrating to Mastodon as well. Indie SAGE still does an hour long briefing every Friday that attracts a massive 2k viewers.
    Bear in mind that UK universities HAVE to engage with the public as much as they can and do so on all the channels that they can, including Twitter (at least so far). It's not an option but a deadly serious matter of bureaucratic scoring. Who sets the standards? For most unis, HMG in London (not sure about the devolved admins in detail, I'm a little out of date thankfully).
    I'm looking forward to the oncoming HE financial apocalypse. Oxford, Cambridge and Hull to survive.

    WTF position have we got to where channel engagement matters. Sod the lot of them. Wally Poly indeed.
    Only two of those are great universities.
    Cambridge is a complete dump.
    What, with MIT and Harvard?

    I am bemused. Perhaps there is some wannabe town with the same name?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Off topic: According to the BBC headline writer, new "elements" have been found in a meteorite:
    "Joy as scientists find new elements in meteorite"
    source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/joy-as-scientists-find-new-elements-in-meteorite/ar-AA14HPsm?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=53610a9e66e642928124af4abff75142

    The article itself doesn't contain the mistake, and is moderately interesting.

    (MSN shouldn't have published it, with that error in the headline.)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406

    dixiedean said:

    I would say for whatever reason the biggest failure of the England system (I don't mean Southgate, I mean wider clubs etc) over the past 5-6 years is for whatever reason we had a whole load of young strikers that ripped it up at youth level, Abrahams, Solanke, Brewster, Lookman, Nelson, Nketiah, none are close to the England squad.

    Obviously its not uncommon for many to not make it, but these players were absolutely crushing it and not one looks like they will become a regular England player. And hence we have been left with a big gap.

    Although the injury travails of Calvert-Lewin are a mitigating factor. He was the one who had broken through to become the second in line behind Kane. But hasn't played half a dozen games in a row for eighteen months.
    That's a fair point, although I am not sure Calvert-Lewin is world class and only really had one good season (obviously injuries not helped). He certainly be in ahead of Wilson if he had remained fit.

    But at youth level all those other players were just scoring for fun, won the U17 world cup etc. Now as I say, its hardly uncommon for players not to make it, but all of the strikers seem to be a bust. Where as midfield, Foden, Sancho, even Hudson-Odi they are either there or could be there. Smith Rowe has made it to England, as has Guehi.
    I seriously hope DCL is being cossetted and got fully fit over this break.
    The mighty Everton will be surging to mid table if so.
    And. He can still be the future if properly looked after. He keeps being brought back early out of desperation.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    kle4 said:

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
    Unarguable.

    As brilliant an actor as Ken Branagh is, he should have waited 10-15 years before taking on Poirot.

    If he'd watched the final moments of Murder on the Orient Express to see Suchet's silent portrayal of Poirot's inner turmoil even Branagh would have to concede he is not worthy.
    The KB films are awful. They must be making some money though, or they wouldn't keep being made.
    Murder on the Orient Express certainly did. From wiki

    Budget $55 million
    Box office $352.8 million

    Death on the Nile not so much

    Budget $90 million
    Box office $137.3 million

    In Hollywood terms, with marketing costs, that's probably a loss, so somewhat surprising it is getting a sequel, as Death on the Nile felt quite final to me.
    The Orient Express movie was decent, and Johnny Depp made an excellent Ratchet.

    Death on the Nile was turgid rubbish.
  • mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
    Unarguable.

    As brilliant an actor as Ken Branagh is, he should have waited 10-15 years before taking on Poirot.

    If he'd watched the final moments of Murder on the Orient Express to see Suchet's silent portrayal of Poirot's inner turmoil even Branagh would have to concede he is not worthy.
    The KB films are awful. They must be making some money though, or they wouldn't keep being made.
    Agatha Christie is shit anyway, and when you have to cook down her quite complicated plots to a 2 hour time frame and the intelligence of the average movie goer, you have a situation where it doesn't matter which washed up old mime is going through the motions, it's all predictable shit from the opening credits to the denouement in ze ow you say, librareeee.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    Even Jesus on the cross cried out "why have you forsaken me?" Which in itself is a repeat of Psalm 22.

    Religious doubt and Agnosticism is part of the human condition, and there is quite a lot of religious precedent.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to

    me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    Isn’t the old adage that the Church of England is for Christians that don’t believe in god?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited November 2022
    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    The other thing about Buddhism. Unlike most other religions it doesn't encourage anyone to actively say they are one. There is no confirmation or baptism or ceremony.
    You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist. Following the perfection of Moral Discipline. Which is a pretty high bar.
    I had to give it serious thought before answering yes on the census. Not lying is part of the criteria for inclusion. And I go to 2-3 meditation/prayer sessions a week.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    edited November 2022

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to

    me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    Isn’t the old adage that the Church of England is for Christians that don’t believe in god?
    Not all of the CoE but the Sea of Faith movement fits the bill in someways:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Faith#:~:text=The Sea of Faith movement,Dean of Emmanuel College, Cambridge.

    It is perhaps rather simplistic to describe them as atheists though.

  • Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    Even Jesus on the cross cried out "why have you forsaken me?" Which in itself is a repeat of Psalm 22.

    Religious doubt and Agnosticism is part of the human condition, and there is quite a lot of religious precedent.
    Sure. If you have just been nailed to a cross are you more likely to say "why have you forsaken me?" as an elegant reference to a psalm, or because it's what you actually think?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    The other thing about Buddhism. Unlike most other religions it doesn't encourage anyone to actively say they are one. There is no confirmation or baptism or ceremony.
    You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist. Following the perfection of Moral Discipline. Which is a pretty high bar.
    I had to give it serious thought before answering


    yes on the census. Not lying is part of the criteria for inclusion. And I go to 2-3 meditation/prayer


    sessions a week.

    One wonders how Suella Braverman qualifies.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    Ghedebrav said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    With by far and away the best squad....

    Anyone would think its the players that make the difference.
    “By far and away the best squad” is a massive overstatement. It’s arguably not even the best squad of my lifetime on paper.
    All this grudging nonsense about Southgate shows how he's raised the bar compared with what we'd got used to.
    The ‘Golden Generation’ (which was a stick the media invented to beat the players with) were probably a better group of players, or at least there were more genuinely outstanding players than today. But they didn’t play as a team, and and in some cases resented playing for England.

    Also Shteve McLaren was a terrible manager.

    The big difference with the "Golden Generation" is that team was pretty much had to be Owen + Rooney / Gerrard / Lampard / Bechkam + A.N.Other shoved on the left. It was often Joe Cole shoved on that left hand side, which wasn't his position. I wouldn't say that's one-dimensional, but was limited flexibility.

    Now current England are still over-reliant on Kane, but outside of that gifted with a wide range of options with quite differing talents that can be called upon.

    The big difference is the defence. We don't have a line up like Neville, Ferdinand, Terry and Cole, with the likes of Carragher and Campbell bench warming. What we one would give for even Ferdinand and Campbell quality defenders to play central defence, and have Walker / Shaw playing RB / LB.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    edited November 2022
    pillsbury said:

    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    Even Jesus on the cross cried out "why have you forsaken me?" Which in itself is a repeat of Psalm 22.

    Religious doubt and Agnosticism is part of the human condition, and there is quite a lot of religious precedent.
    Sure. If you have just been nailed to a cross are you more likely to say "why have you forsaken me?" as an elegant reference to a psalm, or because it's what you actually think?
    I don't believe that Jesus was interrogated on that point, but the Gospel writers litter their accounts with references to the Old Testament.
  • pillsbury said:

    mwadams said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    The West Saxons struggling.

    You've lost me there.
    Stuart reminds me of some of the Manchester City supporting children I knew at school whose loathing for Manchester United was such they couldn't even bring themselves to use the term "Manchester United" and referred to them as Trafford Rangers or some such.
    A friend of mine won't say the word that begins Tot and ends ham.
    In the excellent series Elementary (modern day Sherlock Holmes in New York), when he meets Sebastian Moran, he discovers that he is an Arsenal supporter. Which noticeably deepens his loathing. Mass murdering contract killer is one thing, but....
    Elementary is an underrated show. I hope it will attract the millions of John Major fans who have now discovered Johnny Lee Miller.
    I thought it was great. Vastly better than Sherlock, and plenty of episodes to tell a narrative arc.
    Recent British writers of TV shows seem to have a tendency to turn the protagonist of their work into a Worshipped Hero. See Dr Who, Sherlock etc.

    Elementary avoided that, kept the actual detection via minutiae and Millers performance as hyper energetic and very quirky seemed somehow very Holmesian.

    The was only one true representation of Holmes on the screen, of course. Jeremy Brett in the early episodes (the quality fell off) - accompanied by the definitive Dr Watson.
    I agree on Brett. For me, along with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot, they are the definitive portrayals on the great detectives.
    Unarguable.

    As brilliant an actor as Ken Branagh is, he should have waited 10-15 years before taking on Poirot.

    If he'd watched the final moments of Murder on the Orient Express to see Suchet's silent portrayal of Poirot's inner turmoil even Branagh would have to concede he is not worthy.
    The KB films are awful. They must be making some money though, or they wouldn't keep being made.
    Agatha Christie is shit anyway, and when you have to cook down her quite complicated plots to a 2 hour time frame and the intelligence of the average movie goer, you have a situation where it doesn't matter which washed up old mime is going through the motions, it's all predictable shit from the opening credits to the denouement in ze ow you say, librareeee.
    Agatha Christie isn't shit! You have to avert your gaze from the Daily Mail politics (including casual antisemitism) but they are brilliantly crafted stories.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    The other thing about Buddhism. Unlike most other religions it doesn't encourage anyone to actively say they are one. There is no confirmation or baptism or ceremony.
    You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist. Following the perfection of Moral Discipline. Which is a pretty high bar.
    I had to give it serious thought before answering


    yes on the census. Not lying is part of the criteria for inclusion. And I go to 2-3 meditation/prayer


    sessions a week.

    One wonders how Suella Braverman qualifies.

    Well quite
    Ask the Triratnas.
    Lineage.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    The other thing about Buddhism. Unlike most other religions it doesn't encourage anyone to actively say they are one. There is no confirmation or baptism or ceremony.
    You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist. Following the perfection of Moral Discipline. Which is a pretty high bar.
    I had to give it serious thought before answering


    yes on the census. Not lying is part of the criteria for inclusion. And I go to 2-3 meditation/prayer


    sessions a week.

    One wonders how Suella Braverman qualifies.

    Well quite
    Ask the Triratnas.
    Lineage.
    She sure seems to be building up a lot of bad Karma!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist.
    No requirement to seek permission and obey the whims of mostly old men (in a formal hierarchy or otherwise) to live your life? Does that even count as religion?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to

    me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    Isn’t the old adage that the Church of England is for Christians that don’t believe in god?
    There was a quite good (to my memory) BBC play with Mel Smith and Griff Rhys Jones as two CoE ministers. Mel was a modernist, Jones as a traditionist. Both in the purgatory waiting room. In the end Mel gets into Heaven as 'I never really believed in hell anyway' and poor Griff...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited November 2022
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    The other thing about Buddhism. Unlike most other religions it doesn't encourage anyone to actively say they are one. There is no confirmation or baptism or ceremony.
    You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist. Following the perfection of Moral Discipline. Which is a pretty high bar.
    I had to give it serious thought before answering


    yes on the census. Not lying is part of the criteria for inclusion. And I go to 2-3 meditation/prayer


    sessions a week.

    One wonders how Suella Braverman qualifies.

    Well quite
    Ask the Triratnas.
    Lineage.
    She sure seems to be building up a lot of bad Karma!
    She could be purifying her bad karma right now. I am not a Buddha so can't know. Which makes it tricky.
    She could also be a Buddha teaching us patient acceptance of course
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    Best England tournament finishes in a half century says he is a decent manager. His play is rather predictable, but where he is streets ahead of other England managers is in instilling a team ethos amongst a bunch of arrogant sports millionaires. That is essential man-management that is rare indeed.
    Quite. If the stories are even half true, the ‘golden generation’ that humbled Germany 5-1 and was destined to never reach past a quarter final, was accustomed to fighting like rats in a sack, and split down club lines.
    The current bunch all seem to get on. Makes a huge difference.
    Therein lies the vast majority of the battle.
    Management is about getting a bunch of disparate characters to co-operate rather than feud.
    Player feuds are the achillies heel of the Netherlands and Belgium. Spain seems to have finally shed them, after years of undrperformance.

    The greatness of the 2016 Leicester City team was it's team ethos. The team was far greater than the sum of its parts.
    But not a patch on what Cloughie got out of a team featuring Larry Lloyd, Peter Withe, Kenny Burns....
    For some reason you seem to have forgotten those 70's footballing nobodies: Peter Shilton, Archie Gemmil and Martin O'Neill from that team.
  • England XI for first Test v Pakistan: Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (c), Ben Foakes (wk), Liam Livingstone, Jack Leach, Ollie Robinson, James Anderson.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    Were you not alive in 1990? From what I have seen Robson was a better manager than Southgate is. I hope to be proved wrong though.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Big question of the day: has the Archbishop of Canterbury issued a statement celebrating the fact that less than 50% of the population are Christians?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    England XI for first Test v Pakistan: Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (c), Ben Foakes (wk), Liam Livingstone, Jack Leach, Ollie Robinson, James Anderson.

    James Anderson has been in the England team longer than most England spin bowlers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    The other thing about Buddhism. Unlike most other religions it doesn't encourage anyone to actively say they are one. There is no confirmation or baptism or ceremony.
    You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist. Following the perfection of Moral Discipline. Which is a pretty high bar.
    I had to give it serious thought before answering


    yes on the census. Not lying is part of the criteria for inclusion. And I go to 2-3 meditation/prayer


    sessions a week.

    One wonders how Suella Braverman qualifies.

    Well quite
    Ask the Triratnas.
    Lineage.
    She sure seems to be building up a lot of bad Karma!
    She could be purifying her bad karma right now. I am not a Buddha so can't know. Which makes it tricky.
    She could also be a Buddha teaching us patient acceptance of course
    Yes, I get that. As someone once said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"

    I spent a fortnight once running a course in a hospital run by Buddhist monks. A nice enough bunch, but the philosophy leaves me rather cold.

    Attachments are not the cause of suffering in life, at least not attachments to people. They are the things that make life a joy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    Andy_JS said:

    Big question of the day: has the Archbishop of Canterbury issued a statement celebrating the fact that less than 50% of the population are Christians?

    Not the AOC, but the Second ranked Cleric said this:

    "Archbishop of York Stephen Cottrell, who serves as the second-ranking cleric in the Church of England, said the declining numbers of Christians were "not a great surprise," according to the Daily Telegraph, but noted that Christianity remains "the largest movement on Earth" and "still throws down a challenge to us not only to trust that God will build his kingdom on Earth, but also to play our part in making Christ known."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited November 2022
    The problem with the census is that it doesn't allow for people who feel culturally Christian (or other religions) but are non-practising. Every 10 years I hope they'll include an option for "non-practising" but they don't.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    eristdoof said:

    England XI for first Test v Pakistan: Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (c), Ben Foakes (wk), Liam Livingstone, Jack Leach, Ollie Robinson, James Anderson.

    James Anderson has been in the England team longer than most England spin bowlers.
    He started playing for England when Alec Stewart was still England wicketkeeper.
  • Andy_JS said:

    eristdoof said:

    England XI for first Test v Pakistan: Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (c), Ben Foakes (wk), Liam Livingstone, Jack Leach, Ollie Robinson, James Anderson.

    James Anderson has been in the England team longer than most England spin bowlers.
    He started playing for England when Alec Stewart was still England wicketkeeper.
    I believe the tv coverage was still in black and white ;-)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    eristdoof said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    Were you not alive in 1990? From what I have seen Robson was a better manager than Southgate is. I hope to be proved wrong though.
    I certainly was alive and remember that tournament all too well. I said Southgate has by far the best record. He does. His record is better than Robson’s even if we came slightly closer to a World Cup final on that unforgettable, heartbreaking night in Italy.

    (I still think Gazza is going to stretch his leg an inch further and score when I see it back today)

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Big question of the day: has the Archbishop of Canterbury issued a statement celebrating the fact that less than 50% of the population are Christians?

    Not the AOC, but the Second ranked Cleric said this:

    "Archbishop of York Stephen Cottrell, who serves as the second-ranking cleric in the Church of England, said the declining numbers of Christians were "not a great surprise," according to the Daily Telegraph, but noted that Christianity remains "the largest movement on Earth" and "still throws down a challenge to us not only to trust that God will build his kingdom on Earth, but also to play our part in making Christ known."
    His words were sensible 'We have left behind the era when many people almost automatically identified as Christian but other surveys consistently show how the same people still seek spiritual truth and wisdom and a set of values to live by.

    This winter - perhaps more so than for a long time – people right across the country, some in desperate need, will be turning to their local church, not only for spiritual hope but practical help.

    We will be there for them, in many cases, providing food and warmth. And at Christmas millions of people will still come to our services.'
    https://www.churchofengland.org/media-and-news/press-releases/we-are-here-you-archbishop-responds-census-findings

    Let us not forget too that globally there are 2.38 billion Christians, more than there have ever been and over 30 times the entire UK population. In global terms it is the UK and indeed wider West in relative decline, less so Christianity (even if Islam is growing fastest both Christianity and Islam are growing more than atheism worldwide with atheists and agnostics a declining share of the global population by 2050 as they are strongest in the West which is in overall population decline relative to the global average and especially religious Africa).

    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
  • HYUFD said:
    sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
  • Andy_JS said:

    The problem with the census is that it doesn't allow for people who feel culturally Christian (or other religions) but are non-practising. Every 10 years I hope they'll include an option for "non-practising" but they don't.

    but non -practising does not mean non-believing - I am non-practising in the sense of not going to Church that often (4 times a year?) but certainly believe in Jesus and a higher being even if not literally all the bible
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    HYUFD said:
    If a measure of each person's religiosity were used that could be anywhere between 0 and 1 inclusive, rather than only 0 or 1, I wouldn't be surprised if the average religiosity in Britain by that measure were increasing.

    Atheism in the west or post-west or ex-west by 2050 will probably be another word for the belief set of those who cling to the cult of AI and human beings as machines even after the cataclysm.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes."
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    Andy_JS said:

    The problem with the census is that it doesn't allow for people who feel culturally Christian (or other religions) but are non-practising. Every 10 years I hope they'll include an option for "non-practising" but they don't.

    but non -practising does not mean non-believing - I am non-practising in the sense of not going to Church that often (4 times a year?) but certainly believe in Jesus and a higher being even if not literally all the bible
    Up to you how you define yourself of course, but I would say going to church 4 times per year while believing in Jesus makes you practising.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    DJ41 said:

    HYUFD said:
    If a measure of each person's religiosity were used that could be anywhere between 0 and 1 inclusive, rather than only 0 or 1, I wouldn't be surprised if the average religiosity in Britain by that measure were increasing.

    Atheism in the west or post-west or ex-west by 2050 will probably be another word for the belief set of those who cling to the cult of AI and human beings as machines even after the cataclysm.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes."
    Designing the census so that "British" was the first option in England and "Welsh" was the first option in Wales seems like a deliberate strategy for reducing English identity.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    HYUFD said:
    sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
    Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.

    The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    DJ41 said:

    HYUFD said:
    If a measure of each person's religiosity were used that could be anywhere between 0 and 1 inclusive, rather than only 0 or 1, I wouldn't be surprised if the average religiosity in Britain by that measure were increasing.

    Atheism in the west or post-west or ex-west by 2050 will probably be another word for the belief set of those who cling to the cult of AI and human beings as machines even after the cataclysm.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes."
    The last quote is just another thing religious people tell themselves because it makes them feel good, even though they don't have any evidence for it.
  • Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    Have you included relegation to the 2nd tier of the European Nations League in 2022 in that record? Below 16 other European teams which will be playing in the 1st tier in the next series of matches? Almost none of which are blessed to have the quality and depth of squad available to the England manager to pick from.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
    Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.

    The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
    The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
  • eristdoof said:

    Mortimer said:

    Southgate.....Marcus, Phil....great games tonight....you have done well enough to be back on the bench on Sunday....

    You really do hate Southgate don’t you?
    TBF he's about as cautious as its possible to be. Couldn't keep Middlesborough up, or win the EC, with that attitude. And missed his penalty in '96, too.
    He has by far the best record of any England manager in my lifetime.
    Were you not alive in 1990? From what I have seen Robson was a better manager than Southgate is. I hope to be proved wrong though.
    I certainly was alive and remember that tournament all too well. I said Southgate has by far the best record. He does. His record is better than Robson’s even if we came slightly closer to a World Cup final on that unforgettable, heartbreaking night in Italy.

    (I still think Gazza is going to stretch his leg an inch further and score when I see it back today)

    That was under Venables, wasn't it? 1996.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    The other thing about Buddhism. Unlike most other religions it doesn't encourage anyone to actively say they are one. There is no confirmation or baptism or ceremony.
    You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist. Following the perfection of Moral Discipline. Which is a pretty high bar.
    I had to give it serious thought before answering


    yes on the census. Not lying is part of the criteria for inclusion. And I go to 2-3 meditation/prayer


    sessions a week.

    One wonders how Suella Braverman qualifies.

    Well quite
    Ask the Triratnas.
    Lineage.
    She sure seems to be building up a lot of bad Karma!
    She could be purifying her bad karma right now. I am not a Buddha so can't know. Which makes it tricky.
    She could also be a Buddha teaching us patient acceptance of course
    Yes, I get that. As someone once said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"

    I spent a fortnight once running a course in a hospital run by Buddhist monks. A nice enough bunch, but the philosophy leaves me rather cold.

    Attachments are not the cause of suffering in life, at least not attachments to people. They are the things that make life a joy.
    Ooohhh ooohhh I think I know that one:

    Was it Marjorie Taylor Greene?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
    Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.

    The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
    The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
    A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.

    London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11480799/Census-results-2021-Data-maps-religion-ethnicity-England-Wales.html


    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=p2mcHdN6ty85wLvDCVZnhQ
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    May do but by 2050 we will likely be over 50% non white anyway with more and more first generation immigrants every year so the trend is there, even if we stay plurality white
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    So with the USA through to the second round, this means they have better football history than either Wales or Scotland.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    sad to see less than half now identify as Christian
    Still the plurality however over non religious and other religions.

    The white population also in decline but excluding non Christian religions more whites class themselves as Christian than non religious (even with the small but rising Black British Christian population)
    The white population overall has declined less than I was expecting. 82% in England and Wales, so probably close to 85% once Scotland and Northern Ireland are included.
    A pretty significant 5% decline in the White population from 86% to just 81% in England and Wales. And only just over 70% of the White population British or Home Nations, the rest Eastern Europeans.

    London and Birmingham now majority non white as Farage commented

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11480799/Census-results-2021-Data-maps-religion-ethnicity-England-Wales.html


    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=p2mcHdN6ty85wLvDCVZnhQ
    The descendants of those Eastern Europeans will become white British pretty quickly.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage video on London, Leicester and Birmingham now all being minority white cities.

    He says ONS plans to hide the true stats in future

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1597626503432671233?s=20&t=jAJ0CAJLtPRuOSagpcLbOA

    And the whole country is now minority christian (even including the many who are just pretending!) for the first time. Rejoice!
    Christians still the plurality though and a majority of the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Islam or Judaism
    The trend is the key. Christians down from 72% to 46% in 20 years. No-Religion up from 15% to 37% in the same period.

    We will become a majority atheist country within another 20 years I suspect (and hope)
    Muslims however also up and white population down. Immigrants also far more religious than native whites so the higher immigration we have, Christians from Africa and Muslims and Hindus from Asia the less atheist we will be.

    There is also a distinction between atheists and non religious, plenty of non religious would classify themselves as agnostic not full on atheist
    I accept your point about agnostics and atheists but the key point is that neither group believes in Gods of any flavour.

    First generation immigrants may will stick with their various religions but second and third generation immigrants will probably follow the same trend towards atheism and agnosticism as the rest of us.

    There’s also the confusing point that in some religions it’s quite possible to be an atheist. Buddhism most obviously, but the old Rabbi at our (reform) synagogue basically admitted to me that he was agnostic, but for him the point was about keeping the traditions and the ‘peoplehood’ of Jewish folk going.
    The other thing about Buddhism. Unlike most other religions it doesn't encourage anyone to actively say they are one. There is no confirmation or baptism or ceremony.
    You're a Buddhist if you are currently behaving like a Buddhist. Following the perfection of Moral Discipline. Which is a pretty high bar.
    I had to give it serious thought before answering


    yes on the census. Not lying is part of the criteria for inclusion. And I go to 2-3 meditation/prayer


    sessions a week.

    One wonders how Suella Braverman qualifies.

    Well quite
    Ask the Triratnas.
    Lineage.
    She sure seems to be building up a lot of bad Karma!
    She could be purifying her bad karma right now. I am not a Buddha so can't know. Which makes it tricky.
    She could also be a Buddha teaching us patient acceptance of course
    There must be a few Buddhists out there as they are building a temple (albeit rather slowly) here in the Flatlands...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Protests against the opening of an accommodation centre for asylum seekers in East Wall in Dublin have been "hijacked" by far-right groups, according to a TD. The protests escalated overnight as traffic entering Dublin's Port Tunnel was blocked. Demonstrators stopped vehicles from entering and exiting the route."

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/east-wall-asylum-seeker-protests-hijacked-by-far-right-groups-td-says-1398650.html
This discussion has been closed.