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Should Rishi support onshore wind farms or oppose? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Well, there goes that UN job:

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls. @UNSRVAW
    Official account of Reem Alsalem, UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women and Girls its causes and consequences. A.K.A. “the person from the UN”


    https://twitter.com/UNSRVAW
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779
    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    "This is a battle for the future of civilization. If free speech is lost even in America, tyranny is all that lies ahead."

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1597405399040217088

    He's lost it.

    That implies he once had it.
    China is using government social media apps to enforce ultimate tyranny. This will become clearer over the next year as it faces down its own population.

    The US / Europe have a different economic tradition to China, namely one of private sector monopolies or oligopolies. But it should be very clear to anyone paying the slightest attention that social media in the West is at the top of the same slope that China has already descended down.

    People like to argue that it doesn’t impact free speech if Twitter or Facebook or Apple choose to block perfectly legal statements from their platforms. But that rather overlooks the monopolies they enjoy, especially when looked at as a Silicon Valley blob.

    If true that Apple has threatened to remove Twitter from the App Store that would be a pretty scary revelation indeed. And almost certainly a counterproductive one, given you really don’t want to give Musk the bit between his teeth to go after you. Hopefully Tim Cook realises this and calms his people down a bit.

    If Apple does ban Twitter from the App Store while carrying the apps for completely unmoderated chat systems, then I predict that will trigger the politics to break control of the App Store Waller Garden away from Apple.

    The most entertaining thing in that battle will be all the people who wanted the walled garden broken down, who will suddenly support it to the death.
    AIUI Apple has very stringent controls on what goes onto the app store, technically. If they think your app will break the OS, it won't go on or will be removed. They also have strict privacy don'ts. Given that Twitter have just got rid of a load of people who made the app, I would not be surprised if the app suddenly broke in weird and wonderful ways that would cause Apple to remove it.
    Maybe I am just a cynic but this strikes me as just posturing over fees. Musk has said several times he is not happy with the fees charged and even posted memes about it. He is looking to turn twitter into a cash generator. All of what he is doing is geared towards that.

    Parler and Gettr and Truthsocial are on Apple stores. Why wouldn't twitter be.
    Yes, the actual reason that Apple would ban Twitter is nothing to do with free speech, and everything to do with Apple ensuring they get their cut of all the $8 subscription fees.
    Twitter has charged for various services before, without Apple getting a cut.
    not really - previously the things that twitter charged for weren't part of the iOS app.

    The biggest thing this shows is how little Musk thought things through. Anyone who pays any attention to the online world would know of the rather large and bitter court battle over fees that Epic is waging (and mainly losing) against Apple.
    If that was the issue, simply putting the subscription via the web frontend at $8 and charging 1.3x as much via the app would fix it.

    Some others have done that - and been harassed by Apple for doing so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    No surprise lots of Black Pentecostals, Muslims, Hindus and Catholic and Anglican cathedrals.

    Overall in England and Wales less than half Christian now but Christians still a plurality. Just over a third non religious, Muslims growing as a percentage here
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited November 2022
    God's own county is disturbingly* godless.

    *If you're godly inclined

    ETA: And I do love the word 'choropleth', don't know why.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Selebian said:

    God's own county is disturbingly* godless.

    *If you're godly inclined
    The Greater Good.

    Yarp.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    And Norwich, the other way.
  • Not south London!
  • Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    “It’s very David Miliband that now we look like we might win he’s suddenly ‘ready’ to come back.”

    https://twitter.com/kevinaschofield/status/1597505299963064330

    I guess he's sounding out the Doncaster North CLP about challenging the incumbent for the nomination? :innocent:
    From this end, it looks more like that is all decided in Islington...

    I've never once seen Ed turn up to anything. Caroline Flint, yes, new Tory Boy, yes, Rosie Winterton, yes.
    I'd always assumed he'd be quite a good constituency MP, goes to show you can't tell from a distance, I guess.
    He might have turned up when I wasn't looking, of course...

    I don't actually live in his constituency although I have heard the same from other locals who do.

    It is a lot easier to garner complaints than praise so for all I know he may actually run a competent office.

    I'm not a big fan of parachuting, mind. He still lives in North London.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/sep/26/ed-miliband-doncaster-north-reaction
    Re parachuting, I guess with the demise of Robin Hood airport there aren't many other options :wink:

    Fair points though. Our own local MP (Nigel Adams) is seen a bit, particularly now he's no longer holding car doors open for the PM. I know that he did, some years ago, write a very detailed response to constituent on the subject of gay marriage (following his vote against; a postition he later changed and apologised for).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Since nearly all the things that Luther was banging on about (ha!) have been dealt with by the Catholic Church and the CoE is going out of business, I suggest the following.

    1) Catholic Church allows married priests
    2) A Papal Bull announcing that Kings and Queens of the UK get to marry anyone they damn well please.
    3) Reunification.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    Depends which churches, evangelical Church of England churches are pretty full as are Anglican cathedrals
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    What about the Church of Scotland?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    Depends which churches, evangelical Church of England churches are pretty full as are Anglican cathedrals
    The overall practicing rate for Catholic is 40% and CoE 20% or so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Absolutely not, stop the monarch being the supreme governor of the Church of England and in due course the Reformation will be reversed and the Pope will be head of our largest Christian denomination as Anglo Catholics return to Rome, some evangelicals become Pentecostal and Baptist etc.

    With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that is significant and would increase the Vatican's powerbase here again
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    One of @Roger's Russian neighbours has come a cropper.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11480711/Russian-billionaire-53-killed-helicopter-crash-near-Monaco-latest-crypto-mystery-death.html

    Crypto entrepreneur Vyacheslav Taran, 53, died after the helicopter plunged near the resort town of Villefranche-sur-Mer
  • Disgusting racism from the Welsh.

    Welsh pub bans England fans from watching World Cup clash

    https://metro.co.uk/2022/11/29/welsh-pub-bans-england-fans-from-watching-world-cup-clash-17843309/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    One of @Roger's Russian neighbours has come a cropper.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11480711/Russian-billionaire-53-killed-helicopter-crash-near-Monaco-latest-crypto-mystery-death.html

    Crypto entrepreneur Vyacheslav Taran, 53, died after the helicopter plunged near the resort town of Villefranche-sur-Mer

    IIRC there was an incident or 2 with helicopters and Russian citizens living in this country?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited November 2022
    To answer your question, it’s a no brainer - the less white and English speaking London is, the more religious and Christian and Muslim it becomes.

    In Irish, Poles and Romanians (that the Tories have let in the last 10 years) we are importing good Christians.

    ONS data shows number of Christians fall below half for the first time - down from 59% to 46% in just ten years!
    https://news.sky.com/story/census-2021-data-shows-number-of-christians-in-uk-fall-below-half-for-first-time-12757819

    As immigration brings more Christians, the problem is not immigration it’s quite clearly you numptys on PB thinking you are clever calling yourselves Jedi, Atheists and Agnostics because the historical outdated claptrap of Christianity doesn’t match how clever you are because scientists and brainy people like you can’t be Christian’s, it’s incompatible.

    Isn’t it?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022

    One of @Roger's Russian neighbours has come a cropper.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11480711/Russian-billionaire-53-killed-helicopter-crash-near-Monaco-latest-crypto-mystery-death.html

    Crypto entrepreneur Vyacheslav Taran, 53, died after the helicopter plunged near the resort town of Villefranche-sur-Mer

    Double whammy of Russian and crypto entrepreneur....both very dangerous traits at the moment.
  • ydoethur said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    What about the Church of Scotland?
    Merge it with the Catholic Church.

    It’ll end sectarianism overnight, I’m utterly confident in that.
  • Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    What about the aga khan? That seems an equally shiite arrangement.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    ydoethur said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    What about the Church of Scotland?
    Merge it with the Catholic Church.

    It’ll end sectarianism overnight, I’m utterly confident in that.
    Think bigger and better....

    I want to be there - behind 6 inches of armour glass - when they merge the Wee Free with the Church of Rome.

    Come to think of it, do it in a lead lined chamber at the bottom of a mine shaft - and use the waste heat from the explosion to run the country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    Depends which churches, evangelical Church of England churches are pretty full as are Anglican cathedrals
    The overall practicing rate for Catholic is 40% and CoE 20% or so.
    Though still more practicing C of E in terms of overall numbers.

    Stop the C of E being the established church though and yes Roman Catholics would again be the largest denomination in England and Wales, probably in self described as well as practicing terms. With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that then means a tougher line on LGBT issues, abortion etc supported by the growing number of socially conservative Muslims in England and Wales
  • GP ‘working from home’ more than 250 miles away from her surgery

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/28/gp-working-home-250-miles-away-surgery/

    I would say she is taking the piss, but quite hard to deal with urine samples when you are that far away.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Ratters said:

    Offshore wind strikes me as one where the answer should always be 'yes' to more. Combined with more gas storage.

    Excess capacity can always be exported. On days of less wind we can use gas saved up in storage

    One of the things you can do with 'excess' power from an offshore wind turbine would be electrolyse the seawater into Hydrogen and Oxygen
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    edited November 2022
    I've just been emailed about the Chester parliamentary by-election, this Thursday.

    The excitement is palpable. Has any parliamentary by-election ever attracted so little comment/speculation, on PB or elsewhere?
  • HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Absolutely not, stop the monarch being the supreme governor of the Church of England and in due course the Reformation will be reversed and the Pope will be head of our largest Christian denomination as Anglo Catholics return to Rome, some evangelicals become Pentecostal and Baptist etc.

    With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that is significant and would increase the Vatican's powerbase here again
    The reformation has brought hatred and bigotry to this country.

    A united Christian church would end bigotry and hatred in Northern Ireland.

    Time for the Bishop of Rome to be head of all Christians in the UK again.
  • ydoethur said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    What about the Church of Scotland?
    Merge it with the Catholic Church.

    It’ll end sectarianism overnight, I’m utterly confident in that.
    Think bigger and better....

    I want to be there - behind 6 inches of armour glass - when they merge the Wee Free with the Church of Rome.

    Come to think of it, do it in a lead lined chamber at the bottom of a mine shaft - and use the waste heat from the explosion to run the country.
    I think we might solve the energy crisis with this idea.
  • One of @Roger's Russian neighbours has come a cropper.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11480711/Russian-billionaire-53-killed-helicopter-crash-near-Monaco-latest-crypto-mystery-death.html

    Crypto entrepreneur Vyacheslav Taran, 53, died after the helicopter plunged near the resort town of Villefranche-sur-Mer

    Double whammy of Russian and crypto entrepreneur....both very dangerous traits at the moment.
    Read somewhere that Nassau airport car park is full of abandoned high end cars
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    ydoethur said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    What about the Church of Scotland?
    Merge it with the Catholic Church.

    It’ll end sectarianism overnight, I’m utterly confident in that.
    It would be as likely as merging Sunni and Shia Muslims
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Scott_xP said:

    Ratters said:

    Offshore wind strikes me as one where the answer should always be 'yes' to more. Combined with more gas storage.

    Excess capacity can always be exported. On days of less wind we can use gas saved up in storage

    One of the things you can do with 'excess' power from an offshore wind turbine would be electrolyse the seawater into Hydrogen and Oxygen
    Except that electrolysis is extremely inefficient, thermodynamically. And the hydrogen is a pig to store. Probably a giant stack of batteries would be cheaper to run.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Disgusting racism from the Welsh.

    Welsh pub bans England fans from watching World Cup clash

    https://metro.co.uk/2022/11/29/welsh-pub-bans-england-fans-from-watching-world-cup-clash-17843309/

    Very wise. Saves on all that paperwork when the undertakers call.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    To answer your question, it’s a no brainer - the less white and English speaking London is, the more religious and Christian and Muslim it becomes.

    In Irish, Poles and Romanians (that the Tories have let in the last 10 years) we are importing good Christians.

    ONS data shows number of Christians fall below half for the first time - down from 59% to 46% in just ten years!
    https://news.sky.com/story/census-2021-data-shows-number-of-christians-in-uk-fall-below-half-for-first-time-12757819

    As immigration brings more Christians, the problem is not immigration it’s quite clearly you numptys on PB thinking you are clever calling yourselves Jedi, Atheists and Agnostics because the historical outdated claptrap of Christianity doesn’t match how clever you are because scientists and brainy people like you can’t be Christian’s, it’s incompatible.

    Isn’t it?
    Yes globally of course Muslims are the fastest growing group followed by Christians, especially hardline evangelicals. Atheists are in decline globally as they are only growing in the West which population wise is also in relative decline
  • I've just been emailed about the Chester parliamentary by-election, this Thursday.

    The excitement is palpable. Has any parliamentary by-election ever attracted so little comment/speculation, on PB or elsewhere?

    Haltemprice & Howden in 2008.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    HYUFD said:

    To answer your question, it’s a no brainer - the less white and English speaking London is, the more religious and Christian and Muslim it becomes.

    In Irish, Poles and Romanians (that the Tories have let in the last 10 years) we are importing good Christians.

    ONS data shows number of Christians fall below half for the first time - down from 59% to 46% in just ten years!
    https://news.sky.com/story/census-2021-data-shows-number-of-christians-in-uk-fall-below-half-for-first-time-12757819

    As immigration brings more Christians, the problem is not immigration it’s quite clearly you numptys on PB thinking you are clever calling yourselves Jedi, Atheists and Agnostics because the historical outdated claptrap of Christianity doesn’t match how clever you are because scientists and brainy people like you can’t be Christian’s, it’s incompatible.

    Isn’t it?
    Yes globally of course Muslims are the fastest growing group followed by Christians, especially hardline evangelicals. Atheists are in decline globally as they are only growing in the West which population wise is also in relative decline
    My sect of Christianity - Extreme Militant Fundamentalist Unitarianism - will take off soon, I am sure.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63785351

    "People in China who attended weekend protests against Covid restrictions say they have been contacted by police, as authorities begin clamping down. (...) It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities."

    Maybe the police are holding séances, following in the footsteps of senior Italian politicians in the Aldo Moro case?

    Either that or people are carrying trackers, what they do on the internet is monitored, or - the most frighteningly unexpected possibility of all - both.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Except that electrolysis is extremely inefficient, thermodynamically.

    But that is the beauty of "renewable" energy.

    Efficiency is less of concern when the energy is "free"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    DJ41 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63785351

    "People in China who attended weekend protests against Covid restrictions say they have been contacted by police, as authorities begin clamping down. (...) It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities."

    Maybe the police are holding séances, following in the footsteps of senior Italian pols in the Aldo Moro case?

    Either that or people are carrying trackers, what they do on the internet is monitored, or - the most frighteningly unexpected possibility of all - both.

    "people are carrying trackers" - AKA smart phones.

    Or smart watches, these days.


    John Reese: Never understood why people put all their information on those [social networking] sites. Used to make our job a lot easier in the CIA.
    Harold Finch: Of course. That's why I created them.
    John Reese: You're telling me you invented online social networking, Finch?
    Harold Finch: The Machine needed more information. People's social graph, their associations. The government had been trying to figure it out for years. Turns out most people were happy to volunteer it. Business wound up being quite profitable, too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Scott_xP said:

    Except that electrolysis is extremely inefficient, thermodynamically.

    But that is the beauty of "renewable" energy.

    Efficiency is less of concern when the energy is "free"
    Pissing it away when you can sell it is a losing proposition. Which is why other storage methods will probably win. Batteries are extremely good at storage, by comparison - 90% efficient is possible.
  • DJ41 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63785351

    "People in China who attended weekend protests against Covid restrictions say they have been contacted by police, as authorities begin clamping down. (...) It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities."

    Maybe the police are holding séances, following in the footsteps of senior Italian pols in the Aldo Moro case?

    Either that or people are carrying trackers, what they do on the internet is monitored, or - the most frighteningly unexpected possibility of all - both.

    "people are carrying trackers" - AKA smart phones.

    Or smart watches, these days.


    John Reese: Never understood why people put all their information on those [social networking] sites. Used to make our job a lot easier in the CIA.
    Harold Finch: Of course. That's why I created them.
    John Reese: You're telling me you invented online social networking, Finch?
    Harold Finch: The Machine needed more information. People's social graph, their associations. The government had been trying to figure it out for years. Turns out most people were happy to volunteer it. Business wound up being quite profitable, too.
    And of course it goes further, installing listening devices and cameras that upload to central servers in their own homes....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    I've just been emailed about the Chester parliamentary by-election, this Thursday.

    The excitement is palpable. Has any parliamentary by-election ever attracted so little comment/speculation, on PB or elsewhere?

    Thanks for the reminder - we were in Chester the weekend before last.

    Of note a lot of Labour posters and 1 Green poster on white unrecyclable plastic corrugated sheeting.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    HYUFD said:

    To answer your question, it’s a no brainer - the less white and English speaking London is, the more religious and Christian and Muslim it becomes.

    In Irish, Poles and Romanians (that the Tories have let in the last 10 years) we are importing good Christians.

    ONS data shows number of Christians fall below half for the first time - down from 59% to 46% in just ten years!
    https://news.sky.com/story/census-2021-data-shows-number-of-christians-in-uk-fall-below-half-for-first-time-12757819

    As immigration brings more Christians, the problem is not immigration it’s quite clearly you numptys on PB thinking you are clever calling yourselves Jedi, Atheists and Agnostics because the historical outdated claptrap of Christianity doesn’t match how clever you are because scientists and brainy people like you can’t be Christian’s, it’s incompatible.

    Isn’t it?
    Yes globally of course Muslims are the fastest growing group followed by Christians, especially hardline evangelicals. Atheists are in decline globally as they are only growing in the West which population wise is also in relative decline
    The wave of new found faith has yet to wash over PB I fear - it’s a cell of rampant anti-faithism.

    The White, English born and bread are turning UK into a foreign land, because too many are too stupid to realise you can think yourself clever, or actually be clever, and have faith at the same time.

    It’s all there in the ONS statistics. Fact.
  • DJ41 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63785351

    "People in China who attended weekend protests against Covid restrictions say they have been contacted by police, as authorities begin clamping down. (...) It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities."

    Maybe the police are holding séances, following in the footsteps of senior Italian pols in the Aldo Moro case?

    Either that or people are carrying trackers, what they do on the internet is monitored, or - the most frighteningly unexpected possibility of all - both.

    "people are carrying trackers" - AKA smart phones.

    Or smart watches, these days.


    John Reese: Never understood why people put all their information on those [social networking] sites. Used to make our job a lot easier in the CIA.
    Harold Finch: Of course. That's why I created them.
    John Reese: You're telling me you invented online social networking, Finch?
    Harold Finch: The Machine needed more information. People's social graph, their associations. The government had been trying to figure it out for years. Turns out most people were happy to volunteer it. Business wound up being quite profitable, too.
    And of course it goes further, installing listening devices and cameras that upload to central servers in their own homes....

    Talking about Alexa



  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    To answer your question, it’s a no brainer - the less white and English speaking London is, the more religious and Christian and Muslim it becomes.

    In Irish, Poles and Romanians (that the Tories have let in the last 10 years) we are importing good Christians.

    ONS data shows number of Christians fall below half for the first time - down from 59% to 46% in just ten years!
    https://news.sky.com/story/census-2021-data-shows-number-of-christians-in-uk-fall-below-half-for-first-time-12757819

    As immigration brings more Christians, the problem is not immigration it’s quite clearly you numptys on PB thinking you are clever calling yourselves Jedi, Atheists and Agnostics because the historical outdated claptrap of Christianity doesn’t match how clever you are because scientists and brainy people like you can’t be Christian’s, it’s incompatible.

    Isn’t it?
    :smile: Yep, you got it - the circlejerking echo machine dwellers who know that each human being is a machine because they know lots of really deep stuff because they write complicated computer programs. Their minds are job-shaped, and strangely they're all male.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Scott_xP said:

    Ratters said:

    Offshore wind strikes me as one where the answer should always be 'yes' to more. Combined with more gas storage.

    Excess capacity can always be exported. On days of less wind we can use gas saved up in storage

    One of the things you can do with 'excess' power from an offshore wind turbine would be electrolyse the seawater into Hydrogen and Oxygen
    Except that electrolysis is extremely inefficient, thermodynamically. And the hydrogen is a pig to store. Probably a giant stack of batteries would be cheaper to run.
    Batteries...

    Extrapolating electric car & battery use & known lithium reserves & where those reserves actually are...
  • Scott_xP said:

    Ratters said:

    Offshore wind strikes me as one where the answer should always be 'yes' to more. Combined with more gas storage.

    Excess capacity can always be exported. On days of less wind we can use gas saved up in storage

    One of the things you can do with 'excess' power from an offshore wind turbine would be electrolyse the seawater into Hydrogen and Oxygen
    Except that electrolysis is extremely inefficient, thermodynamically. And the hydrogen is a pig to store. Probably a giant stack of batteries would be cheaper to run.
    What about StEnSEA?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored_Energy_at_Sea
  • Top tip for dealing with the Welsh: Ddim am lawer hirach is the courteous response to Yma o Hyd
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Selebian said:

    God's own county is disturbingly* godless.

    *If you're godly inclined

    ETA: And I do love the word 'choropleth', don't know why.
    Was surprised at Bath but it looks like its combined with Bristol, with a much higher minority population.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    Caroline Lucas says that supporting Sizewell C is "bone-headed & senseless" because it will take 13-17 years to deliver.

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1597557986234630146

    The same Caroline Lucas opposed Sizewell C in 2008 because "the earliest that a new nuclear power station could come on stream is around 2017".

    https://www.greenparty.org.uk/archive/news-archive/3431.html
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    DJ41 said:

    To answer your question, it’s a no brainer - the less white and English speaking London is, the more religious and Christian and Muslim it becomes.

    In Irish, Poles and Romanians (that the Tories have let in the last 10 years) we are importing good Christians.

    ONS data shows number of Christians fall below half for the first time - down from 59% to 46% in just ten years!
    https://news.sky.com/story/census-2021-data-shows-number-of-christians-in-uk-fall-below-half-for-first-time-12757819

    As immigration brings more Christians, the problem is not immigration it’s quite clearly you numptys on PB thinking you are clever calling yourselves Jedi, Atheists and Agnostics because the historical outdated claptrap of Christianity doesn’t match how clever you are because scientists and brainy people like you can’t be Christian’s, it’s incompatible.

    Isn’t it?
    :smile: Yep, you got it - the circlejerking echo machine dwellers who know that each human being is a machine because they know lots of really deep stuff because they write complicated computer programs. Their minds are job-shaped, and strangely they're all male.
    And they all post here. I feel like a missionary.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited November 2022
    glw said:

    I'm all in favour of onshore wind farms, but I don't know how much we'll actually need them. Once Doggerbank, Hornsea, East Anglia Three and others are completed the UK will have a huge amount of energy coming from wind turbines. Supply and cost is not going to be a problem for much longer, certainly by the 2030s the UK should have sufficient renewable electricity supply. What we do need is enery storage or clean alternatives to wind. That's the problem to crack IMHO, not arguing about the merits of onshore or offshore wind farms.

    I'd say we need to keep going at the current rate for a good long time.

    Adding all the phases of Dogger, Hornsea and East Anglia together - and there are 3 or 4 phases of each afaics, we get 20GW capacity, which is 10GW useable at 50% capacity factor, which is 87.6TWh per annum of energy.

    Current *electricity* usage is around 340 TWh per annum, and 87 TWh is only a quarter of that.

    Add in all the oil and gas use that we need to swap out for electricity, and therefore electricity growth, and we will need a lot more.

    Current total energy usage is 1900 TWh, and total wind generation is 169 TWh on 2021 numbers. So even for 1/3 of that total energy to come from wind we need we need 4x what we have now. That's production based numbers and consumption based numbers (ie trade weighted) make it 25% higher.

    Lot of work to do. Plus all the storage and other tech as you say.

    Personally I'd like to see wind energy generation / exports to some extent filling the hole from the decline of North Sea oil.

    Source: https://ourworldindata.org/energy-mix
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ratters said:

    Offshore wind strikes me as one where the answer should always be 'yes' to more. Combined with more gas storage.

    Excess capacity can always be exported. On days of less wind we can use gas saved up in storage

    One of the things you can do with 'excess' power from an offshore wind turbine would be electrolyse the seawater into Hydrogen and Oxygen
    Except that electrolysis is extremely inefficient, thermodynamically. And the hydrogen is a pig to store. Probably a giant stack of batteries would be cheaper to run.
    Batteries...

    Extrapolating electric car & battery use & known lithium reserves & where those reserves actually are...
    Oh dear. Not the "Proven reserves" thing again? There is no possibility of a shortage of lithium. It's one of the commonest elements.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    DJ41 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63785351

    "People in China who attended weekend protests against Covid restrictions say they have been contacted by police, as authorities begin clamping down. (...) It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities."

    Maybe the police are holding séances, following in the footsteps of senior Italian pols in the Aldo Moro case?

    Either that or people are carrying trackers, what they do on the internet is monitored, or - the most frighteningly unexpected possibility of all - both.

    "people are carrying trackers" - AKA smart phones.

    Or smart watches, these days.


    John Reese: Never understood why people put all their information on those [social networking] sites. Used to make our job a lot easier in the CIA.
    Harold Finch: Of course. That's why I created them.
    John Reese: You're telling me you invented online social networking, Finch?
    Harold Finch: The Machine needed more information. People's social graph, their associations. The government had been trying to figure it out for years. Turns out most people were happy to volunteer it. Business wound up being quite profitable, too.
    Yes, that's what I meant.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405

    DJ41 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63785351

    "People in China who attended weekend protests against Covid restrictions say they have been contacted by police, as authorities begin clamping down. (...) It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities."

    Maybe the police are holding séances, following in the footsteps of senior Italian pols in the Aldo Moro case?

    Either that or people are carrying trackers, what they do on the internet is monitored, or - the most frighteningly unexpected possibility of all - both.

    "people are carrying trackers" - AKA smart phones.

    Or smart watches, these days.


    John Reese: Never understood why people put all their information on those [social networking] sites. Used to make our job a lot easier in the CIA.
    Harold Finch: Of course. That's why I created them.
    John Reese: You're telling me you invented online social networking, Finch?
    Harold Finch: The Machine needed more information. People's social graph, their associations. The government had been trying to figure it out for years. Turns out most people were happy to volunteer it. Business wound up being quite profitable, too.
    Now that was a pretty decent series.
  • Taz said:

    DJ41 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63785351

    "People in China who attended weekend protests against Covid restrictions say they have been contacted by police, as authorities begin clamping down. (...) It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities."

    Maybe the police are holding séances, following in the footsteps of senior Italian pols in the Aldo Moro case?

    Either that or people are carrying trackers, what they do on the internet is monitored, or - the most frighteningly unexpected possibility of all - both.

    "people are carrying trackers" - AKA smart phones.

    Or smart watches, these days.


    John Reese: Never understood why people put all their information on those [social networking] sites. Used to make our job a lot easier in the CIA.
    Harold Finch: Of course. That's why I created them.
    John Reese: You're telling me you invented online social networking, Finch?
    Harold Finch: The Machine needed more information. People's social graph, their associations. The government had been trying to figure it out for years. Turns out most people were happy to volunteer it. Business wound up being quite profitable, too.
    Now that was a pretty decent series.
    Again the Chinese appeared to take that as an instructional documentary....
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Absolutely not, stop the monarch being the supreme governor of the Church of England and in due course the Reformation will be reversed and the Pope will be head of our largest Christian denomination as Anglo Catholics return to Rome, some evangelicals become Pentecostal and Baptist etc.

    With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that is significant and would increase the Vatican's powerbase here again
    The Pope is successor to St Peter. The monarch is successor to Henry VIII and we all know what he got up to!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Taz said:

    DJ41 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63785351

    "People in China who attended weekend protests against Covid restrictions say they have been contacted by police, as authorities begin clamping down. (...) It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities."

    Maybe the police are holding séances, following in the footsteps of senior Italian pols in the Aldo Moro case?

    Either that or people are carrying trackers, what they do on the internet is monitored, or - the most frighteningly unexpected possibility of all - both.

    "people are carrying trackers" - AKA smart phones.

    Or smart watches, these days.


    John Reese: Never understood why people put all their information on those [social networking] sites. Used to make our job a lot easier in the CIA.
    Harold Finch: Of course. That's why I created them.
    John Reese: You're telling me you invented online social networking, Finch?
    Harold Finch: The Machine needed more information. People's social graph, their associations. The government had been trying to figure it out for years. Turns out most people were happy to volunteer it. Business wound up being quite profitable, too.
    Now that was a pretty decent series.
    Again the Chinese appeared to take that as an instructional documentary....
    The important bit is not to be a Samaritan.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    Taz said:

    DJ41 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63785351

    "People in China who attended weekend protests against Covid restrictions say they have been contacted by police, as authorities begin clamping down. (...) It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities."

    Maybe the police are holding séances, following in the footsteps of senior Italian pols in the Aldo Moro case?

    Either that or people are carrying trackers, what they do on the internet is monitored, or - the most frighteningly unexpected possibility of all - both.

    "people are carrying trackers" - AKA smart phones.

    Or smart watches, these days.


    John Reese: Never understood why people put all their information on those [social networking] sites. Used to make our job a lot easier in the CIA.
    Harold Finch: Of course. That's why I created them.
    John Reese: You're telling me you invented online social networking, Finch?
    Harold Finch: The Machine needed more information. People's social graph, their associations. The government had been trying to figure it out for years. Turns out most people were happy to volunteer it. Business wound up being quite profitable, too.
    Now that was a pretty decent series.
    Again the Chinese appeared to take that as an instructional documentary....
    Thank goodness the West is so different.

    But...from the horse's mouth:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3gPgNOBWg8#t=9m40s

    :smile:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Absolutely not, stop the monarch being the supreme governor of the Church of England and in due course the Reformation will be reversed and the Pope will be head of our largest Christian denomination as Anglo Catholics return to Rome, some evangelicals become Pentecostal and Baptist etc.

    With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that is significant and would increase the Vatican's powerbase here again
    The Pope is successor to St Peter. The monarch is successor to Henry VIII and we all know what he got up to!
    The leader of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Monarch being Supreme Governor just prevents the Pope being Head of our largest Christian denomination again
  • HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Absolutely not, stop the monarch being the supreme governor of the Church of England and in due course the Reformation will be reversed and the Pope will be head of our largest Christian denomination as Anglo Catholics return to Rome, some evangelicals become Pentecostal and Baptist etc.

    With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that is significant and would increase the Vatican's powerbase here again
    The Pope is successor to St Peter. The monarch is successor to Henry VIII and we all know what he got up to!
    The leader of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Monarch being Supreme Governor just prevents the Pope being Head of our largest Christian denomination again
    What have you got against the Pope and the Catholic Church?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Scott_xP said:

    Ratters said:

    Offshore wind strikes me as one where the answer should always be 'yes' to more. Combined with more gas storage.

    Excess capacity can always be exported. On days of less wind we can use gas saved up in storage

    One of the things you can do with 'excess' power from an offshore wind turbine would be electrolyse the seawater into Hydrogen and Oxygen
    Except that electrolysis is extremely inefficient, thermodynamically...
    That need not remain the case with ideal electrolytes and catalysts, though ?
    And you need not confine it to hydrogen - CO from CO2 would provide a useful chemical feedstock.

    In the short to medium term, there will be a significant amount of renewable generation wasted - but that does mean a significant supply of essentially zero marginal cost electricity.
    There's therefore a big economic incentive for the development of cost effective storage (see, for example, Highview Power).

  • HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Does defending the faith entail sticking to your wedding vows?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Absolutely not, stop the monarch being the supreme governor of the Church of England and in due course the Reformation will be reversed and the Pope will be head of our largest Christian denomination as Anglo Catholics return to Rome, some evangelicals become Pentecostal and Baptist etc.

    With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that is significant and would increase the Vatican's powerbase here again
    The Pope is successor to St Peter. The monarch is successor to Henry VIII and we all know what he got up to!
    The leader of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Monarch being Supreme Governor just prevents the Pope being Head of our largest Christian denomination again
    What have you got against the Pope and the Catholic Church?
    I assume then you support the Roman Catholic Church's anti gay marriage, anti abortion, anti divorce, anti women priests, anti contraception position?

    I have nothing against the Roman Catholic Church but it is generally harder line than the Church of England and Anglicans
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ratters said:

    Offshore wind strikes me as one where the answer should always be 'yes' to more. Combined with more gas storage.

    Excess capacity can always be exported. On days of less wind we can use gas saved up in storage

    One of the things you can do with 'excess' power from an offshore wind turbine would be electrolyse the seawater into Hydrogen and Oxygen
    Except that electrolysis is extremely inefficient, thermodynamically...
    That need not remain the case with ideal electrolytes and catalysts, though ?
    And you need not confine it to hydrogen - CO from CO2 would provide a useful chemical feedstock.

    In the short to medium term, there will be a significant amount of renewable generation wasted - but that does mean a significant supply of essentially zero marginal cost electricity.
    There's therefore a big economic incentive for the development of cost effective storage (see, for example, Highview Power).

    The physics of electrolysis are really inefficient - stuff you can't change. Which is why there has been lots of interest in using catalysts and other methods for hydrogen generation.

    Hydrogen storage cycle is 20-40% efficient. Batteries can be 90% efficient. So you are getting more than double the amount of power back. Even at zero marginal cost for the electricity....

    Making green methane is better for storage, but takes yet more energy....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Irreligious is the fastest growing category, by a long way.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

    If not Charles, then almost certainly his successor will have to consider the faithless majority.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    GP ‘working from home’ more than 250 miles away from her surgery

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/28/gp-working-home-250-miles-away-surgery/

    I would say she is taking the piss, but quite hard to deal with urine samples when you are that far away.

    Without reading the story - there are a lot of useful things a GP can do remotely. Our GP practice uses online consults and it works really well. Then there are medication reviews etc.

    But yes, on the face of it, looks a bit off.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Caroline Lucas says that supporting Sizewell C is "bone-headed & senseless" because it will take 13-17 years to deliver.

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1597557986234630146

    The same Caroline Lucas opposed Sizewell C in 2008 because "the earliest that a new nuclear power station could come on stream is around 2017".

    https://www.greenparty.org.uk/archive/news-archive/3431.html

    Had experience of Hinkley C to draw on since then....
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Absolutely not, stop the monarch being the supreme governor of the Church of England and in due course the Reformation will be reversed and the Pope will be head of our largest Christian denomination as Anglo Catholics return to Rome, some evangelicals become Pentecostal and Baptist etc.

    With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that is significant and would increase the Vatican's powerbase here again
    The Pope is successor to St Peter. The monarch is successor to Henry VIII and we all know what he got up to!
    The leader of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Monarch being Supreme Governor just prevents the Pope being Head of our largest Christian denomination again
    What have you got against the Pope and the Catholic Church?
    I assume then you support the Roman Catholic Church's anti gay marriage, anti abortion, anti divorce, anti women priests, anti contraception position?

    I have nothing against the Roman Catholic Church but it is generally harder line than the Church of England and Anglicans
    The Pope is infallible. The Archbishop of Canterbury isn't .
    That's the difference.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Irreligious is the fastest growing category, by a long way.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

    If not Charles, then almost certainly his successor will have to consider the faithless majority.
    Still only 37% and depends on immigration too. The vast majority of switching to non religious are native British whites.

    British Asians are overwhelmingly
    Muslim, Hindu or Sikh. Black British are mainly Christians, especially Pentecostal. Poles in the UK tend to be Roman Catholic.

    London and Birmingham already now majority non white British born and more religious than the rest of the UK.

    So the more we get continued high immigration, the more the boats from Africa continue to come etc, the more religious we will continue to be
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Irreligious is the fastest growing category, by a long way.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

    If not Charles, then almost certainly his successor will have to consider the faithless majority.
    They could declare they are "Defender of Faith Position", given that in Newspeak atheism and agnosticism are faith positions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022

    GP ‘working from home’ more than 250 miles away from her surgery

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/28/gp-working-home-250-miles-away-surgery/

    I would say she is taking the piss, but quite hard to deal with urine samples when you are that far away.

    Without reading the story - there are a lot of useful things a GP can do remotely. Our GP practice uses online consults and it works really well. Then there are medication reviews etc.

    But yes, on the face of it, looks a bit off.
    If you read the report, it isn't in addition to, its instead of.

    My parents GP surgery is particular good at the hybrid service where as you say some things can be dealt with quickly over the phone / online, but the GP is always available to go and see in person.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    pillsbury said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Does defending the faith entail sticking to your wedding vows?
    One of the convenient distinctions between the supreme governor and pope is that there is no assertion of infallibility.
  • edbedb Posts: 66
    eek said:


    Thanks for the reminder - we were in Chester the weekend before last.

    Of note a lot of Labour posters and 1 Green poster on white unrecyclable plastic corrugated sheeting.

    still green if you plan to keep reusing it
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Caroline Lucas says that supporting Sizewell C is "bone-headed & senseless" because it will take 13-17 years to deliver.

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1597557986234630146

    The same Caroline Lucas opposed Sizewell C in 2008 because "the earliest that a new nuclear power station could come on stream is around 2017".

    https://www.greenparty.org.uk/archive/news-archive/3431.html

    Had experience of Hinkley C to draw on since then....
    Frankly the attitude of Green politicians to nuclear has always been poor, and ultimately misguided. Assuming we one day crack fusion (possible, but not guaranteed) or get enough renewables plus storage then we never need use fission again. Great. But until then we need energy now, can use fission (albeit with risks and legacy storage issues) and stop using fossil fuels (a finite resource and a threat through climate change).
    And yet the Greens hate it.

    Sometimes its hard not to think they would prefer us all to either (A) die or (B) regress back to the 16th century rather than use nuclear to help the current situation.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    mwadams said:

    pillsbury said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Does defending the faith entail sticking to your wedding vows?
    One of the convenient distinctions between the supreme governor and pope is that there is no assertion of infallibility.
    The Pope would be a useful contributor to PB with betting tips.
  • Cristiano Ronaldo's hairstyle in next match

    https://twitter.com/TrollFootball/status/1597530621907435520
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Absolutely not, stop the monarch being the supreme governor of the Church of England and in due course the Reformation will be reversed and the Pope will be head of our largest Christian denomination as Anglo Catholics return to Rome, some evangelicals become Pentecostal and Baptist etc.

    With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that is significant and would increase the Vatican's powerbase here again
    The Pope is successor to St Peter. The monarch is successor to Henry VIII and we all know what he got up to!
    The leader of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Monarch being Supreme Governor just prevents the Pope being Head of our largest Christian denomination again
    What have you got against the Pope and the Catholic Church?
    I assume then you support the Roman Catholic Church's anti gay marriage, anti abortion, anti divorce, anti women priests, anti contraception position?

    I have nothing against the Roman Catholic Church but it is generally harder line than the Church of England and Anglicans
    The Pope is infallible. The Archbishop of Canterbury isn't .
    That's the difference.
    Which pope? Didn't there used to be two of them? What if they disagreed?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ratters said:

    Offshore wind strikes me as one where the answer should always be 'yes' to more. Combined with more gas storage.

    Excess capacity can always be exported. On days of less wind we can use gas saved up in storage

    One of the things you can do with 'excess' power from an offshore wind turbine would be electrolyse the seawater into Hydrogen and Oxygen
    Except that electrolysis is extremely inefficient, thermodynamically...
    That need not remain the case with ideal electrolytes and catalysts, though ?
    And you need not confine it to hydrogen - CO from CO2 would provide a useful chemical feedstock.

    In the short to medium term, there will be a significant amount of renewable generation wasted - but that does mean a significant supply of essentially zero marginal cost electricity.
    There's therefore a big economic incentive for the development of cost effective storage (see, for example, Highview Power).

    The physics of electrolysis are really inefficient - stuff you can't change. Which is why there has been lots of interest in using catalysts and other methods for hydrogen generation.

    Hydrogen storage cycle is 20-40% efficient. Batteries can be 90% efficient. So you are getting more than double the amount of power back. Even at zero marginal cost for the electricity....

    Making green methane is better for storage, but takes yet more energy....
    I have to confess a large amount of ignorance in the topic. What can, and can't you change ?

    The point about chemical feedstocks from electrolysis is that it allows 100% renewable fuel which isn't capacity constrained and is deployable without the limitations of fixed plant.

    In global energy terms, battery storage is likely only to be useful for 24hour periods.

    Saudi Arabia, with costs around 1c per kWh, is likely to remain the energy superpower with the transition to renewables ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    edb said:

    eek said:


    Thanks for the reminder - we were in Chester the weekend before last.

    Of note a lot of Labour posters and 1 Green poster on white unrecyclable plastic corrugated sheeting.

    still green if you plan to keep reusing it
    Circular economy is better - creation, use and disposal (recycling).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Absolutely not, stop the monarch being the supreme governor of the Church of England and in due course the Reformation will be reversed and the Pope will be head of our largest Christian denomination as Anglo Catholics return to Rome, some evangelicals become Pentecostal and Baptist etc.

    With a plurality still Christian in England and Wales that is significant and would increase the Vatican's powerbase here again
    The Pope is successor to St Peter. The monarch is successor to Henry VIII and we all know what he got up to!
    The leader of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Monarch being Supreme Governor just prevents the Pope being Head of our largest Christian denomination again
    What have you got against the Pope and the Catholic Church?
    The Anglicans *are* Catholic. Just that they are the Brexit, or rather Engexit, kind.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    CoE will probably take a big hit early next year. If, as is likely, the "Living in Love and Faith*" stuff goes the way the liberals want, a lot of the evangelicals will be off out, either as individuals or entire churches. I'm on the PCC of an evangelical Anglican church that's currently within the CoE - the conversation at our meetings has moved on from "if this goes through should we leave?" to "what practical stuff do we need to do now to leave next year, and should we join AMiE or one of the other alternatives?"

    We're by far the largest Anglican church for miles - our main Sunday service is probably 3 times the congregations of the other five Anglicans churches in town put together.

    I'm not sure that the liberals will be as pleased with the husk of a church they will end up being left with as they currently expect.

    *basically permitting gay marriage in church
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Irreligious is the fastest growing category, by a long way.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

    If not Charles, then almost certainly his successor will have to consider the faithless majority.
    Still only 37% and depends on immigration too. The vast majority of switching to non religious are native British whites.

    British Asians are overwhelmingly
    Muslim, Hindu or Sikh. Black British are mainly Christians, especially Pentecostal. Poles in the UK tend to be Roman Catholic.

    London and Birmingham already now majority non white British born and more religious than the rest of the UK.

    So the more we get continued high immigration, the more the boats from Africa continue to come etc, the more religious we will continue to be
    Something like two thirds of teenagers are estimated to be irreligious, so I think your confidence misplaced.
  • mwadams said:

    pillsbury said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Does defending the faith entail sticking to your wedding vows?
    One of the convenient distinctions between the supreme governor and pope is that there is no assertion of infallibility.
    Popes are only infallible on matters of faith and doctrine, and the only substantive infallible pronouncement ever made is that the BVM was conceived free of original sin.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    edb said:

    eek said:


    Thanks for the reminder - we were in Chester the weekend before last.

    Of note a lot of Labour posters and 1 Green poster on white unrecyclable plastic corrugated sheeting.

    still green if you plan to keep reusing it

    GP ‘working from home’ more than 250 miles away from her surgery

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/28/gp-working-home-250-miles-away-surgery/

    I would say she is taking the piss, but quite hard to deal with urine samples when you are that far away.

    Without reading the story - there are a lot of useful things a GP can do remotely. Our GP practice uses online consults and it works really well. Then there are medication reviews etc.

    But yes, on the face of it, looks a bit off.
    I'm at a loss as to what the people complaining wish to see because the consequence of their complaints will be 1 extra GP working locally in near Falmouth and less GP dealing with the cases in Surrey.

    It really is an example of think very carefully about your complaint because there is zero change the result is going to be the one you are hoping for.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited November 2022
    theProle said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    CoE will probably take a big hit early next year. If, as is likely, the "Living in Love and Faith*" stuff goes the way the liberals want, a lot of the evangelicals will be off out, either as individuals or entire churches. I'm on the PCC of an evangelical Anglican church that's currently within the CoE - the conversation at our meetings has moved on from "if this goes through should we leave?" to "what practical stuff do we need to do now to leave next year, and should we join AMiE or one of the other alternatives?"

    We're by far the largest Anglican church for miles - our main Sunday service is probably 3 times the congregations of the other five Anglicans churches in town put together.

    I'm not sure that the liberals will be as pleased with the husk of a church they will end up being left with as they currently expect.

    *basically permitting gay marriage in church
    You sound very like what the Kirk of Scotland was like c. 1841-2, just before it split right down the middle in the Disruption. Though the basic issues were somewhat different.

    Edit: the effect was to permanently discredit the Established Church, and ultimately lead it to adopt effective independence from the state also as the price of reunion from half a century later onwards.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    HYUFD said:
    Though the Telegraph is, I suspect, overwhelmingly white.
  • To answer your question, it’s a no brainer - the less white and English speaking London is, the more religious and Christian and Muslim it becomes.

    In Irish, Poles and Romanians (that the Tories have let in the last 10 years) we are importing good Christians.

    ONS data shows number of Christians fall below half for the first time - down from 59% to 46% in just ten years!
    https://news.sky.com/story/census-2021-data-shows-number-of-christians-in-uk-fall-below-half-for-first-time-12757819

    As immigration brings more Christians, the problem is not immigration it’s quite clearly you numptys on PB thinking you are clever calling yourselves Jedi, Atheists and Agnostics because the historical outdated claptrap of Christianity doesn’t match how clever you are because scientists and brainy people like you can’t be Christian’s, it’s incompatible.

    Isn’t it?
    The number of Irish-born people living in Britain has been falling since 1961.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Irreligious is the fastest growing category, by a long way.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

    If not Charles, then almost certainly his successor will have to consider the faithless majority.
    Still only 37% and depends on immigration too. The vast majority of switching to non religious are native British whites.

    British Asians are overwhelmingly
    Muslim, Hindu or Sikh. Black British are mainly Christians, especially Pentecostal. Poles in the UK tend to be Roman Catholic.

    London and Birmingham already now majority non white British born and more religious than the rest of the UK.

    So the more we get continued high immigration, the more the boats from Africa continue to come etc, the more religious we will continue to be
    Something like two thirds of teenagers are estimated to be irreligious, so I think your confidence misplaced.
    White British native teenagers mainly, who will have fewer children than immigrants growing up.

    The more immigrants we get the more religious we get
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Love this quote from the suffering middle aged couple, as they finally escaped the pissed-up Scottish yobs -


    "We got off the flight and were like: "Oh my God, we need a drink""
  • theProle said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    CoE will probably take a big hit early next year. If, as is likely, the "Living in Love and Faith*" stuff goes the way the liberals want, a lot of the evangelicals will be off out, either as individuals or entire churches. I'm on the PCC of an evangelical Anglican church that's currently within the CoE - the conversation at our meetings has moved on from "if this goes through should we leave?" to "what practical stuff do we need to do now to leave next year, and should we join AMiE or one of the other alternatives?"

    We're by far the largest Anglican church for miles - our main Sunday service is probably 3 times the congregations of the other five Anglicans churches in town put together.

    I'm not sure that the liberals will be as pleased with the husk of a church they will end up being left with as they currently expect.

    *basically permitting gay marriage in church
    Mmm Romans 1 26-7, hey? Did it ever occur to you that Paul was a bigoted bully who just redirected his efforts after that whole Damascene thang?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    theProle said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    CoE will probably take a big hit early next year. If, as is likely, the "Living in Love and Faith*" stuff goes the way the liberals want, a lot of the evangelicals will be off out, either as individuals or entire churches. I'm on the PCC of an evangelical Anglican church that's currently within the CoE - the conversation at our meetings has moved on from "if this goes through should we leave?" to "what practical stuff do we need to do now to leave next year, and should we join AMiE or one of the other alternatives?"

    We're by far the largest Anglican church for miles - our main Sunday service is probably 3 times the congregations of the other five Anglicans churches in town put together.

    I'm not sure that the liberals will be as pleased with the husk of a church they will end up being left with as they currently expect.

    *basically permitting gay marriage in church
    I expect it will be a fudge like with women priests parishes which want to perform gay marriages will be able to, those which won't won't be forced to and given their own bishops.

    However if in the 21st century some leave the Church of England because even allowing priests who want to to conduct gay weddings is unacceptable to them, so be it. To remain the established church the C of E has to adapt
  • HYUFD said:

    theProle said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    CoE will probably take a big hit early next year. If, as is likely, the "Living in Love and Faith*" stuff goes the way the liberals want, a lot of the evangelicals will be off out, either as individuals or entire churches. I'm on the PCC of an evangelical Anglican church that's currently within the CoE - the conversation at our meetings has moved on from "if this goes through should we leave?" to "what practical stuff do we need to do now to leave next year, and should we join AMiE or one of the other alternatives?"

    We're by far the largest Anglican church for miles - our main Sunday service is probably 3 times the congregations of the other five Anglicans churches in town put together.

    I'm not sure that the liberals will be as pleased with the husk of a church they will end up being left with as they currently expect.

    *basically permitting gay marriage in church
    I expect it will be a fudge like with women priests parishes which want to perform gay marriages will be able to, those which won't won't be forced to and given their own bishops.

    However if in the 21st century some leave the Church of England because even allowing priests who want to to conduct gay weddings is unacceptable to them, so be it. To remain the established church the C of E has to adapt
    You could all move to Qatar.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lennon said:

    Noticeable how Luton and Leicester stick out on that map...
    When the churches are full - and quite a few Catholic churches are - they are full of people who recently came from the still very, very catholic countries. Like Peru.

    9% of the English population is Catholic (IIRC) - something like 20% are CoE

    But actual church attendance rates are double for Catholics, IIRC.

    Which means that we are close to a point where there will be more practising Catholics than practising members of the CoE, since CoE is shrinking and Catholicism is growing.
    The Monarch being Head of the CoE really is an anachronism.

    Time to get rid.
    Defender of the Faithless.
    Charles wants to be Defender of Faith rather than just Defender of the Faith. He can comfortably still be that given well over 50% of the population of England and Wales still described themselves as belonging to the Abrahamic religions ie Christianity, Judaism and Islam. More still have faith adding in Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Irreligious is the fastest growing category, by a long way.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

    If not Charles, then almost certainly his successor will have to consider the faithless majority.
    Still only 37% and depends on immigration too. The vast majority of switching to non religious are native British whites.

    British Asians are overwhelmingly
    Muslim, Hindu or Sikh. Black British are mainly Christians, especially Pentecostal. Poles in the UK tend to be Roman Catholic.

    London and Birmingham already now majority non white British born and more religious than the rest of the UK.

    So the more we get continued high immigration, the more the boats from Africa continue to come etc, the more religious we will continue to be
    Something like two thirds of teenagers are estimated to be irreligious, so I think your confidence misplaced.
    White British native teenagers mainly, who will have fewer children than immigrants growing up...
    There's a number of dubious assumptions there.

  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Support. You’ll have to once the Scots stop supplying free electricity.

    And by the way, Scotland leads the world in offshore wind. England doesn’t.

    There are 29 offshore wind farms in England, generating about 9.7 GW of electricity.

    There are seven in Scotland generating around 2GW of electricity.

    The balance is in Wales.

    If you’re going to tell lies to support your obsessive xenophobia at least try to make them intelligent ones.

    TBF, that does give Scotland (360kW) over twice as much per capita as England (175kW)
    Are you counting a Scot as the equal of an Englishman?
    As in " A Scotch Egg is like an english egg - only better"?
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