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Punters give Sunak a 23% chance of winning the general election – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Taz said:

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    I’m surprised, given how generally unfavourable the coverage of Rwanda has been in the MSM, especially on TV, the support is that high.
    The media and indeed the politically engaged are sometimes in a bubble and do not reflect the public's view
  • I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    If you live in Dover it probably feels like one.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    Rishi confirms 91,000 valuable civil service jobs will no longer be got rid of.

    https://twitter.com/the_tuc/status/1587468197019648001?s=61&t=4rOaQPm-NiGt6NrJrQyjag
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,765
    Taz said:

    Rishi confirms 91,000 valuable civil service jobs will no longer be got rid of.

    https://twitter.com/the_tuc/status/1587468197019648001?s=61&t=4rOaQPm-NiGt6NrJrQyjag

    The rest though?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
  • Taz said:

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    I’m surprised, given how generally unfavourable the coverage of Rwanda has been in the MSM, especially on TV, the support is that high.
    Because most are virtue signalling here.

    Rwanda and invasion is virtue signalling.

    Safe and legal routes and fighting far-right strawman is virtue signalling.

    Absolutely no-one is interested in pragmatic political solutions that bring people together.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Maybe this will lighten the mood? My view right now


    Looks pretty cold, what is the Temp.
    Bitterly cold. Allegedly 3C but with the wind chill more like -8C

    Actually hurting my hands (which are in special smartphone-friendly gloves)

    I have retreated to the coach and am yearning for hard Icelandic liquor

    Great day tho
    Are you on a Saga coach trip? Nothing wrong with that, but my mental image of your travel adventures is forever altered.
    Leon? On a Saga coach trip? With his reputation?
    He told us this trip would have him slogging up and down volcanoes in the Icelandic autumn. Being ferried here and there by coach doesn’t match up to the billing…
    I’m doing a fair bit of slogging. You can’t get a bus in here





    Is that a OO-scale model figure standing on a pebble?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    BBC Licence fee frozen for 2 years (ie no rise in April 2022 or April 2023) by Dorries but rising again in April 2024 in line with CPI.

    But for BBC LF, they always take average CPI for 12 months to previous Sept - so will be 12 months to Sept 23.

    But it's not the CPI for Sept 23, it's the average of CPI reported for each of previous 12 months - ie take CPI reported in Oct 22, Nov 22 ..... Sept 23 and average the 12 figures.

    Result is that BBC is going to get an enormous rise in Licence Fee in April 24 - close to 10%.

    Are Sunak, Hunt and Donelan on top of this? They need to be. When all other public services are facing real terms cuts and they are proposing public sector salary increases of 2% for 23/24 it would be totally absurd for the BBC to get close to a 10% rise in April 24.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    edited November 2022

    Taz said:

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    I’m surprised, given how generally unfavourable the coverage of Rwanda has been in the MSM, especially on TV, the support is that high.
    The media and indeed the politically engaged are sometimes in a bubble and do not reflect the public's view
    There is very much a tendency for politicians to tell the public what they should want as opposed to listening to what the public actually want. Labour did this in the red wall for years. Talked at the voters not to them.
  • nova said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    On best PM in the blue wall
    When asked which would be a better Prime Minister at this moment between Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer, 45% of Blue Wall voters choose Rishi Sunak, and 31% choose Keir Starmer. 25% say they don’t know.

    Sunak may still lose the redwall seats but it does look like he is at least shoring up more of the Home Counties Remain/soft Leave seats from the LDs threat
    I don't think that's how these numbers play out. I think these headline VI numbers reflect the anti-Tory vote, not the individual constituency tactical unwind.
    What could be advantageous to the Tories, is that many of these would have had Lib Dems in 2nd place, and so ripe for Labour + LD tactical voting, which would wipe them out in many seats.

    Obviously individual seats may vary massively, but the assumption was many of these might fall to Lib Dems. However with Labour being so far ahead in the polling I wonder if that confuses the tactical options, and the Tories might be more likely to sneak through the middle.
    Very unlikely.

    It means that people will feel it's safe to vote Liberal Democrat in places like Guildford and Winchester because Labour are unthreatening.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Maybe this will lighten the mood? My view right now


    Looks pretty cold, what is the Temp.
    Bitterly cold. Allegedly 3C but with the wind chill more like -8C

    Actually hurting my hands (which are in special smartphone-friendly gloves)

    I have retreated to the coach and am yearning for hard Icelandic liquor

    Great day tho
    Are you on a Saga coach trip? Nothing wrong with that, but my mental image of your travel adventures is forever altered.
    Leon? On a Saga coach trip? With his reputation?
    He told us this trip would have him slogging up and down volcanoes in the Icelandic autumn. Being ferried here and there by coach doesn’t match up to the billing…
    I’m doing a fair bit of slogging. You can’t get a bus in here





    Is that a OO-scale model figure standing on a pebble?
    Model of Gollum.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Danish election night begins at 7pm UK time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Maybe this will lighten the mood? My view right now


    Looks pretty cold, what is the Temp.
    Bitterly cold. Allegedly 3C but with the wind chill more like -8C

    Actually hurting my hands (which are in special smartphone-friendly gloves)

    I have retreated to the coach and am yearning for hard Icelandic liquor

    Great day tho
    Are you on a Saga coach trip? Nothing wrong with that, but my mental image of your travel adventures is forever altered.
    Leon? On a Saga coach trip? With his reputation?
    He told us this trip would have him slogging up and down volcanoes in the Icelandic autumn. Being ferried here and there by coach doesn’t match up to the billing…
    I’m doing a fair bit of slogging. You can’t get a bus in here





    Is that a OO-scale model figure standing on a pebble?
    It’s me. I do look like quite a twat

    Lol. The scientific team leader, Christian, led us to his favourite secret waterfall, then invited us all to do THAT

    TBF it was a lot of fun getting in, and the noise of that cataract pounding down into the ravine was awesome. Totes buzzology
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    On best PM in the blue wall
    When asked which would be a better Prime Minister at this moment between Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer, 45% of Blue Wall voters choose Rishi Sunak, and 31% choose Keir Starmer. 25% say they don’t know.

    Sunak may still lose the redwall seats but it does look like he is at least shoring up more of the Home Counties Remain/soft Leave seats from the LDs threat
    I think he has a good chance of holding those Red Wall seats with a significant majority. The ones with a small majority will probably go back to Labour.
    On current polls certainly every red wall seat in the top 100 Labour target seats would go though he might hold a few beyond that
    That will almost certainly change over the next few months IMO.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    The country is united!
  • That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Maybe this will lighten the mood? My view right now


    Looks pretty cold, what is the Temp.
    Bitterly cold. Allegedly 3C but with the wind chill more like -8C

    Actually hurting my hands (which are in special smartphone-friendly gloves)

    I have retreated to the coach and am yearning for hard Icelandic liquor

    Great day tho
    Are you on a Saga coach trip? Nothing wrong with that, but my mental image of your travel adventures is forever altered.
    Leon? On a Saga coach trip? With his reputation?
    He told us this trip would have him slogging up and down volcanoes in the Icelandic autumn. Being ferried here and there by coach doesn’t match up to the billing…
    I’m doing a fair bit of slogging. You can’t get a bus in here





    Is that a OO-scale model figure standing on a pebble?
    It’s me. I do look like quite a twat

    Lol. The scientific team leader, Christian, led us to his favourite secret waterfall, then invited us all to do THAT

    TBF it was a lot of fun getting in, and the noise of that cataract pounding down into the ravine was awesome. Totes buzzology
    You look like an unpainted World of Warcraft figure.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    MikeL said:

    BBC Licence fee frozen for 2 years (ie no rise in April 2022 or April 2023) by Dorries but rising again in April 2024 in line with CPI.

    But for BBC LF, they always take average CPI for 12 months to previous Sept - so will be 12 months to Sept 23.

    But it's not the CPI for Sept 23, it's the average of CPI reported for each of previous 12 months - ie take CPI reported in Oct 22, Nov 22 ..... Sept 23 and average the 12 figures.

    Result is that BBC is going to get an enormous rise in Licence Fee in April 24 - close to 10%.

    Are Sunak, Hunt and Donelan on top of this? They need to be. When all other public services are facing real terms cuts and they are proposing public sector salary increases of 2% for 23/24 it would be totally absurd for the BBC to get close to a 10% rise in April 24.

    They should be getting rid of the license fee and replacing it with a subscription model. Not rinsing the public for cash, especially when many people won’t be getting raises anywhere near that, to fund the BBC giving it an unfair advantage against its competitors.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    In 51st state news, the BBC website has been offering "live coverage of the tributes to Takeoff, who was shot dead early this morning in Houston, Texas".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/63471396

    The reach of BBC News probably means only 4 people watching know who Takeoff is.

    And 2 of them don't give a shiny shit.
    Should we know?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,765

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
    'A spade a spade' is actually not racist in it's history.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    TASS reports today that the Kremlin press office has reported that "it was stressed", meaning by Putin to Erdogan, that "the Kiev regime, with support from its Western patrons, used the humanitarian shipping corridor, created for the transportation of Ukrainian grain, to carry out strikes against the infrastructure and ships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol".

    Has the Ukrainian side denied this?

    They are being accused of a war crime here.
  • HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Taz said:

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    I’m surprised, given how generally unfavourable the coverage of Rwanda has been in the MSM, especially on TV, the support is that high.
    You're surprised that the media coverage is out of tune with what ordinaryu voters think? How bizarre.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
    The social grade split isn't as polarised as I had expected.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    I’m surprised, given how generally unfavourable the coverage of Rwanda has been in the MSM, especially on TV, the support is that high.
    The media and indeed the politically engaged are sometimes in a bubble and do not reflect the public's view
    There is very much a tendency for politicians to tell the public what they should want as opposed to listening to what the public actually want. Labour did this in the red wall for years. Talked at the voters not to them.
    They still are. Look at the way they piled on Braveman this week. May well have the opposite effect to that intended. Of course they cannot help themselves and are notably more vicious when it's someone they believe ought to be on their side.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited November 2022
    Taz said:

    Rishi confirms 91,000 valuable civil service jobs will no longer be got rid of.

    https://twitter.com/the_tuc/status/1587468197019648001?s=61&t=4rOaQPm-NiGt6NrJrQyjag

    That was always infeasible. Where would you find 91,000 valuable civil servants?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    The unspoken answer there given the low scores is that the public really don't want to face up to it.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
    It's nothing to do with class, and everything to do with whether you hate random other people. For example, having used the word 'libtard' suggests you hate a bunch of random other people.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited November 2022
    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    BBC Licence fee frozen for 2 years (ie no rise in April 2022 or April 2023) by Dorries but rising again in April 2024 in line with CPI.

    But for BBC LF, they always take average CPI for 12 months to previous Sept - so will be 12 months to Sept 23.

    But it's not the CPI for Sept 23, it's the average of CPI reported for each of previous 12 months - ie take CPI reported in Oct 22, Nov 22 ..... Sept 23 and average the 12 figures.

    Result is that BBC is going to get an enormous rise in Licence Fee in April 24 - close to 10%.

    Are Sunak, Hunt and Donelan on top of this? They need to be. When all other public services are facing real terms cuts and they are proposing public sector salary increases of 2% for 23/24 it would be totally absurd for the BBC to get close to a 10% rise in April 24.

    They should be getting rid of the license fee and replacing it with a subscription model. Not rinsing the public for cash, especially when many people won’t be getting raises anywhere near that, to fund the BBC giving it an unfair advantage against its competitors.
    I know.

    The thing is that Dorries spent all her time attacking the BBC and talking about getting rid of the Licence Fee - but she allowed the BBC to run rings round her and gave them an incredibly generous LF settlement without realising it.

    Osborne 2011: 6 year LF freeze, BBC takes over funding of World Service

    Dorries 2022 : 2 year LF freeze

    And this was after the BBC decided to charge over 75s which it had been anticipated the BBC would not do in the 2017 settlement. The BBC were entitled to do this but the result is that the 2017 settlement was even more generous - CPI every year, plus abolition of £150m per year broadband contribution, plus extension of LF to IPlayer.

    It's extraordinary that the BBC has got away with such a generous settlement - way more generous than most of the public sector.

    But are Sunak and Hunt on top of this? I fear not as they have much more important things to deal with. But they should be.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    DJ41 said:

    TASS reports today that the Kremlin press office has reported that "it was stressed", meaning by Putin to Erdogan, that "the Kiev regime, with support from its Western patrons, used the humanitarian shipping corridor, created for the transportation of Ukrainian grain, to carry out strikes against the infrastructure and ships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol".

    Has the Ukrainian side denied this?

    They are being accused of a war crime here.

    They're accused of them every day of the week. Some of them they're probably guilty of.

    I have to say though I would be extremely surprised if they had used the humanitarian corridor for such a purpose. Leaving aside morality arguments, they wouldn't have had much to gain from it while if any ships were hit in a counterattack their name would be absolute mud in the west.

    I suspect this claim by Russia is an example of Politicians' Logic in action.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    tlg86 said:

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
    The social grade split isn't as polarised as I had expected.
    That's the first time I've heard "social grade".
    Interesting that the view that the word "invasion" was used appropriately is even more prevalent among Tories (76-16) than among Leavers (73-16).
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,765
    You've got to be something of a chump if you're critisiscm of the BBC isn't valid.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    ydoethur said:

    DJ41 said:

    TASS reports today that the Kremlin press office has reported that "it was stressed", meaning by Putin to Erdogan, that "the Kiev regime, with support from its Western patrons, used the humanitarian shipping corridor, created for the transportation of Ukrainian grain, to carry out strikes against the infrastructure and ships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol".

    Has the Ukrainian side denied this?

    They are being accused of a war crime here.

    They're accused of them every day of the week. Some of them they're probably guilty of.

    I have to say though I would be extremely surprised if they had used the humanitarian corridor for such a purpose. Leaving aside morality arguments, they wouldn't have had much to gain from it while if any ships were hit in a counterattack their name would be absolute mud in the west.

    I suspect this claim by Russia is an example of Politicians' Logic in action.
    Well, the Ukrainians are Nazi Satanists. At least according to the Russians. I presume Zelensky is a Jewish Nazi Satanist.

    Breaking rules about using an agreed humanitarian corridor is just an extra sugar in the morning coffee, when you are rolling like that…..

    I think the Ukrainians are getting bored with the accusations of war crimes. Especially from people who are commuting so many themselves.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Pleased that Leon took my advice to visit Iceland.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    edited November 2022

    Taz said:

    In 51st state news, the BBC website has been offering "live coverage of the tributes to Takeoff, who was shot dead early this morning in Houston, Texas".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/63471396

    The reach of BBC News probably means only 4 people watching know who Takeoff is.

    And 2 of them don't give a shiny shit.
    Apparently his band were ‘the Beatles of their generation’ according to that BBC live feed.

    I guess that makes this unfortunate chap their John Lennon.
    You think anybody will know who he was in 40 years time?
    The BBC provided a helpful explanation of how repeating the brand name Versace sealed their greatness:

    imageMark Savage - Music correspondent

    Migos were one of the most influential groups of their generation, pioneering a style of rapping in choppy, staccato triplets known as the "Migos flow".

    You can hear it clearly on Versace, the band's breakout hit from 2013. The band repeat the song title in rapid bursts, placing emphasis on the middle syllable at the start of every bar. Like this:

    Ver | sac-e-Ver | sac-e-Ver | sac-e-Ver | sac-e
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 888
    edited November 2022
    Denmark & Israel

    You wait ages for an election...

    So after Brazil on Sunday night, and with the US midterms a week away, today it's Israel and Denmark.

    And indeed, there are one or two similarities - both have a fairly pure form of PR, both have lots of parties, and both have new parties featuring.

    Polls close at 7pm UK time in Denmark and 8pm UK time in Israel.

    Denmark links:

    https://www.dr.dk/drtv/kanal/20875

    https://kmdvalg.dk/Main

    https://politiken.dk/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Danish_general_election

    Will try and find some Israel links in a bit.

    Thanks,

    DC

    (and "Tusen tak" to Stodge for all the updates)

  • Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Maybe this will lighten the mood? My view right now


    Looks pretty cold, what is the Temp.
    Bitterly cold. Allegedly 3C but with the wind chill more like -8C

    Actually hurting my hands (which are in special smartphone-friendly gloves)

    I have retreated to the coach and am yearning for hard Icelandic liquor

    Great day tho
    Are you on a Saga coach trip? Nothing wrong with that, but my mental image of your travel adventures is forever altered.
    Leon? On a Saga coach trip? With his reputation?
    He told us this trip would have him slogging up and down volcanoes in the Icelandic autumn. Being ferried here and there by coach doesn’t match up to the billing…
    I’m doing a fair bit of slogging. You can’t get a bus in here





    Is that a OO-scale model figure standing on a pebble?
    OO-scale is rubbish! 1:76 gauge body shell on 1:87 gauge tracks!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Bolsonaro to address the nation tonight. Lets see how concedey hes feeling
  • Andy_JS said:

    Pleased that Leon took my advice to visit Iceland.

    good deals there.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    If people are supportive of the Rwanda policy, they are supportive of something that isn't working. The deal was signed six months ago. Thus far, zero refugees have gone to Rwanda. The prospects of that improving significantly look bleak. And it's costing a fair bit of taxpayers' money.

    Regardless of ideology, if you judge a policy on outcomes, then Rwanda is a poor policy. Not much more to say really, is there?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593

    nova said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    On best PM in the blue wall
    When asked which would be a better Prime Minister at this moment between Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer, 45% of Blue Wall voters choose Rishi Sunak, and 31% choose Keir Starmer. 25% say they don’t know.

    Sunak may still lose the redwall seats but it does look like he is at least shoring up more of the Home Counties Remain/soft Leave seats from the LDs threat
    I don't think that's how these numbers play out. I think these headline VI numbers reflect the anti-Tory vote, not the individual constituency tactical unwind.
    What could be advantageous to the Tories, is that many of these would have had Lib Dems in 2nd place, and so ripe for Labour + LD tactical voting, which would wipe them out in many seats.

    Obviously individual seats may vary massively, but the assumption was many of these might fall to Lib Dems. However with Labour being so far ahead in the polling I wonder if that confuses the tactical options, and the Tories might be more likely to sneak through the middle.
    Very unlikely.

    It means that people will feel it's safe to vote Liberal Democrat in places like Guildford and Winchester because Labour are unthreatening.
    I think Winchester is a very good bet for the orangey-yellow squad.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Maybe this will lighten the mood? My view right now


    Looks pretty cold, what is the Temp.
    Bitterly cold. Allegedly 3C but with the wind chill more like -8C

    Actually hurting my hands (which are in special smartphone-friendly gloves)

    I have retreated to the coach and am yearning for hard Icelandic liquor

    Great day tho
    Are you on a Saga coach trip? Nothing wrong with that, but my mental image of your travel adventures is forever altered.
    Leon? On a Saga coach trip? With his reputation?
    He told us this trip would have him slogging up and down volcanoes in the Icelandic autumn. Being ferried here and there by coach doesn’t match up to the billing…
    I’m doing a fair bit of slogging. You can’t get a bus in here





    Is that a OO-scale model figure standing on a pebble?
    OO-scale is rubbish! 1:76 gauge body shell on 1:87 gauge tracks!
    I thought you had left us for the red hot action over on Rail Forums?
  • If people are supportive of the Rwanda policy, they are supportive of something that isn't working. The deal was signed six months ago. Thus far, zero refugees have gone to Rwanda. The prospects of that improving significantly look bleak. And it's costing a fair bit of taxpayers' money.

    Regardless of ideology, if you judge a policy on outcomes, then Rwanda is a poor policy. Not much more to say really, is there?

    I thought it wasn't working because tofu eating lawyers had made a number of legal challenges to it
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    ydoethur said:

    DJ41 said:

    TASS reports today that the Kremlin press office has reported that "it was stressed", meaning by Putin to Erdogan, that "the Kiev regime, with support from its Western patrons, used the humanitarian shipping corridor, created for the transportation of Ukrainian grain, to carry out strikes against the infrastructure and ships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol".

    Has the Ukrainian side denied this?

    They are being accused of a war crime here.

    They're accused of them every day of the week. Some of them they're probably guilty of.

    I have to say though I would be extremely surprised if they had used the humanitarian corridor for such a purpose. Leaving aside morality arguments, they wouldn't have had much to gain from it while if any ships were hit in a counterattack their name would be absolute mud in the west.

    I suspect this claim by Russia is an example of Politicians' Logic in action.
    Russia just being mardy arses. Only the Black Sea Fleet can use the waters of the Black Sea for warfare, apparently.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    mwadams said:

    nova said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    On best PM in the blue wall
    When asked which would be a better Prime Minister at this moment between Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer, 45% of Blue Wall voters choose Rishi Sunak, and 31% choose Keir Starmer. 25% say they don’t know.

    Sunak may still lose the redwall seats but it does look like he is at least shoring up more of the Home Counties Remain/soft Leave seats from the LDs threat
    I don't think that's how these numbers play out. I think these headline VI numbers reflect the anti-Tory vote, not the individual constituency tactical unwind.
    What could be advantageous to the Tories, is that many of these would have had Lib Dems in 2nd place, and so ripe for Labour + LD tactical voting, which would wipe them out in many seats.

    Obviously individual seats may vary massively, but the assumption was many of these might fall to Lib Dems. However with Labour being so far ahead in the polling I wonder if that confuses the tactical options, and the Tories might be more likely to sneak through the middle.
    Very unlikely.

    It means that people will feel it's safe to vote Liberal Democrat in places like Guildford and Winchester because Labour are unthreatening.
    I think Winchester is a very good bet for the orangey-yellow squad.
    I would like to thank the Winchester LibDems for introducing me to the word coprophilia.

    Admittedly, I would probably be happier if I didn't know the word. But you can't have everything.
  • I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

  • tlg86 said:

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
    The social grade split isn't as polarised as I had expected.

    It's much more on age, isn't it? As ever, that seems to be the great divider.

  • ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Rishi confirms 91,000 valuable civil service jobs will no longer be got rid of.

    https://twitter.com/the_tuc/status/1587468197019648001?s=61&t=4rOaQPm-NiGt6NrJrQyjag

    That was always infeasible. Where would you find 91,000 valuable civil servants?
    There are some worrying signs emerging that Rishi is easily captured by establishment thinking.

    He needs to work on this. Become more political. More independent. More robust. Less naïve.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Maybe this will lighten the mood? My view right now


    Looks pretty cold, what is the Temp.
    Bitterly cold. Allegedly 3C but with the wind chill more like -8C

    Actually hurting my hands (which are in special smartphone-friendly gloves)

    I have retreated to the coach and am yearning for hard Icelandic liquor

    Great day tho
    Are you on a Saga coach trip? Nothing wrong with that, but my mental image of your travel adventures is forever altered.
    Leon? On a Saga coach trip? With his reputation?
    He told us this trip would have him slogging up and down volcanoes in the Icelandic autumn. Being ferried here and there by coach doesn’t match up to the billing…
    I’m doing a fair bit of slogging. You can’t get a bus in here





    Is that a OO-scale model figure standing on a pebble?
    OO-scale is rubbish! 1:76 gauge body shell on 1:87 gauge tracks!
    Dear god, that’s niche even for here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Andy_JS said:

    Pleased that Leon took my advice to visit Iceland.

    10% off for the over 60's on Tuesdays.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    DJ41 said:

    TASS reports today that the Kremlin press office has reported that "it was stressed", meaning by Putin to Erdogan, that "the Kiev regime, with support from its Western patrons, used the humanitarian shipping corridor, created for the transportation of Ukrainian grain, to carry out strikes against the infrastructure and ships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol".

    Has the Ukrainian side denied this?

    They are being accused of a war crime here.

    They're accused of them every day of the week. Some of them they're probably guilty of.

    I have to say though I would be extremely surprised if they had used the humanitarian corridor for such a purpose. Leaving aside morality arguments, they wouldn't have had much to gain from it while if any ships were hit in a counterattack their name would be absolute mud in the west.

    I suspect this claim by Russia is an example of Politicians' Logic in action.
    Russia just being mardy arses. Only the Black Sea Fleet can use the waters of the Black Sea for warfare, apparently.
    The Russian logic is that any attempt by Ukraine to defend themselves is a provocation or an escalation.
    A position shared by Stop the War, Lula, and all right thinking people everywhere.
  • EPG said:

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
    It's nothing to do with class, and everything to do with whether you hate random other people. For example, having used the word 'libtard' suggests you hate a bunch of random other people.
    It's certainly derogatory and offensive, but it does capture a certain behaviour and type: people whose Liberalism is engaged at an emotive level when certain issues come up such that it retards their ability to think rationally.
  • If people are supportive of the Rwanda policy, they are supportive of something that isn't working. The deal was signed six months ago. Thus far, zero refugees have gone to Rwanda. The prospects of that improving significantly look bleak. And it's costing a fair bit of taxpayers' money.

    Regardless of ideology, if you judge a policy on outcomes, then Rwanda is a poor policy. Not much more to say really, is there?

    But how many people who are supportive of the Rwanda policy actually know or care what it involves?

    They just don't like immigrants, and anything hostile to them must be good. That's all they care about and all they need to know.
  • RCP has marked up the GOP Senate total gains to +4 - now including NH.

    I've also put some money on Ladbrokes at 8/1 for the GOP to have 49 seats - don't think it will happen but it's good odds if you believe the polling is GOP biased.
  • Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Maybe this will lighten the mood? My view right now


    Looks pretty cold, what is the Temp.
    Bitterly cold. Allegedly 3C but with the wind chill more like -8C

    Actually hurting my hands (which are in special smartphone-friendly gloves)

    I have retreated to the coach and am yearning for hard Icelandic liquor

    Great day tho
    Are you on a Saga coach trip? Nothing wrong with that, but my mental image of your travel adventures is forever altered.
    Leon? On a Saga coach trip? With his reputation?
    He told us this trip would have him slogging up and down volcanoes in the Icelandic autumn. Being ferried here and there by coach doesn’t match up to the billing…
    I’m doing a fair bit of slogging. You can’t get a bus in here





    Is that a OO-scale model figure standing on a pebble?
    OO-scale is rubbish! 1:76 gauge body shell on 1:87 gauge tracks!
    Niche.
  • Interesting question from Opinium.


  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    RCP has marked up the GOP Senate total gains to +4 - now including NH.

    I've also put some money on Ladbrokes at 8/1 for the GOP to have 49 seats - don't think it will happen but it's good odds if you believe the polling is GOP biased.

    Poll out today has Bolduc (R) a point ahead of Hasan (D) 48 47 in NH, not sure what 'tilt' the pollster has (St Anselm College)
  • I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

    It doesn't alter the fact that the policy is not as unpopular with the public as many would have you believe, and of course it is legal challenges that are preventing its implementation
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405

    Taz said:

    In 51st state news, the BBC website has been offering "live coverage of the tributes to Takeoff, who was shot dead early this morning in Houston, Texas".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/63471396

    The reach of BBC News probably means only 4 people watching know who Takeoff is.

    And 2 of them don't give a shiny shit.
    Apparently his band were ‘the Beatles of their generation’ according to that BBC live feed.

    I guess that makes this unfortunate chap their John Lennon.
    You think anybody will know who he was in 40 years time?
    The BBC provided a helpful explanation of how repeating the brand name Versace sealed their greatness:

    imageMark Savage - Music correspondent

    Migos were one of the most influential groups of their generation, pioneering a style of rapping in choppy, staccato triplets known as the "Migos flow".

    You can hear it clearly on Versace, the band's breakout hit from 2013. The band repeat the song title in rapid bursts, placing emphasis on the middle syllable at the start of every bar. Like this:

    Ver | sac-e-Ver | sac-e-Ver | sac-e-Ver | sac-e
    How wonderfully pretentious.

    One for Pseuds corner.

    Mark Savage shares a name with the actor who played Gripper in Grange Hill.
  • EPG said:

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
    It's nothing to do with class, and everything to do with whether you hate random other people. For example, having used the word 'libtard' suggests you hate a bunch of random other people.
    It's certainly derogatory and offensive, but it does capture a certain behaviour and type: people whose Liberalism is engaged at an emotive level when certain issues come up such that it retards their ability to think rationally.
    Is it generically any diferent to the word 'redneck', which I take to be its opposite number?
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    DJ41 said:

    TASS reports today that the Kremlin press office has reported that "it was stressed", meaning by Putin to Erdogan, that "the Kiev regime, with support from its Western patrons, used the humanitarian shipping corridor, created for the transportation of Ukrainian grain, to carry out strikes against the infrastructure and ships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol".

    Has the Ukrainian side denied this?

    They are being accused of a war crime here.

    They're accused of them every day of the week. Some of them they're probably guilty of.

    I have to say though I would be extremely surprised if they had used the humanitarian corridor for such a purpose. Leaving aside morality arguments, they wouldn't have had much to gain from it while if any ships were hit in a counterattack their name would be absolute mud in the west.

    I suspect this claim by Russia is an example of Politicians' Logic in action.
    Russia just being mardy arses. Only the Black Sea Fleet can use the waters of the Black Sea for warfare, apparently.
    The Russian logic is that any attempt by Ukraine to defend themselves is a provocation or an escalation.
    A position shared by Stop the War, Lula, and all right thinking people everywhere.
    No - it's not hogging a sea area, denying Ukraine's right to defend itself, or trying to stop the war.

    No side is allowed to make use of the protection from hostile action that is afforded under a humanitarian agreement to which it is party to carry out acts of war.

    That's called perfidy and it's a war crime.

    This isn't barrack room lawyering. Cr*p all over humanitarian law or say you've got a right to do whatever you like to defend yourself and soon there won't be any humanitarian agreements - or in this case, grain shipments.

  • Our neighbour is putting up his Christmas lights

    Seems very early to be honest
  • 5 precincts already declared, the first one 10 mins after polls close:

    https://politiken.dk/indland/politik/folketingsvalg_2022/resultater/
  • Taz said:

    In 51st state news, the BBC website has been offering "live coverage of the tributes to Takeoff, who was shot dead early this morning in Houston, Texas".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/63471396

    The reach of BBC News probably means only 4 people watching know who Takeoff is.

    And 2 of them don't give a shiny shit.
    Apparently his band were ‘the Beatles of their generation’ according to that BBC live feed.

    I guess that makes this unfortunate chap their John Lennon.
    You think anybody will know who he was in 40 years time?
    Not sure anybody will know who he was in 40 minutes time.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Taz said:

    In 51st state news, the BBC website has been offering "live coverage of the tributes to Takeoff, who was shot dead early this morning in Houston, Texas".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/63471396

    The reach of BBC News probably means only 4 people watching know who Takeoff is.

    And 2 of them don't give a shiny shit.
    Apparently his band were ‘the Beatles of their generation’ according to that BBC live feed.

    I guess that makes this unfortunate chap their John Lennon.
    You think anybody will know who he was in 40 years time?
    I've heard of Migos, but only from a "which is the odd one out" question with ethos, logos and pathos...
  • RCP has marked up the GOP Senate total gains to +4 - now including NH.

    I've also put some money on Ladbrokes at 8/1 for the GOP to have 49 seats - don't think it will happen but it's good odds if you believe the polling is GOP biased.

    Poll out today has Bolduc (R) a point ahead of
    Hasan (D) 48 47 in NH, not sure what 'tilt' the pollster has (St Anselm College)
    Don't think they are particularly biased one way or the other.

    Biden is campaigning for the NM Governor apparently and there are articles saying if the Ds losing the NY Governorship, then you should blame Andrew Cuomo. It does feel the late break is heading one way.

  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    rcs1000 said:

    mwadams said:

    nova said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    On best PM in the blue wall
    When asked which would be a better Prime Minister at this moment between Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer, 45% of Blue Wall voters choose Rishi Sunak, and 31% choose Keir Starmer. 25% say they don’t know.

    Sunak may still lose the redwall seats but it does look like he is at least shoring up more of the Home Counties Remain/soft Leave seats from the LDs threat
    I don't think that's how these numbers play out. I think these headline VI numbers reflect the anti-Tory vote, not the individual constituency tactical unwind.
    What could be advantageous to the Tories, is that many of these would have had Lib Dems in 2nd place, and so ripe for Labour + LD tactical voting, which would wipe them out in many seats.

    Obviously individual seats may vary massively, but the assumption was many of these might fall to Lib Dems. However with Labour being so far ahead in the polling I wonder if that confuses the tactical options, and the Tories might be more likely to sneak through the middle.
    Very unlikely.

    It means that people will feel it's safe to vote Liberal Democrat in places like Guildford and Winchester because Labour are unthreatening.
    I think Winchester is a very good bet for the orangey-yellow squad.
    I would like to thank the Winchester LibDems for introducing me to the word coprophilia.

    Admittedly, I would probably be happier if I didn't know the word. But you can't have everything.
    It's been a while. Surely the nasty taste has gone by now?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    tlg86 said:

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
    The social grade split isn't as polarised as I had expected.

    It's much more on age, isn't it? As ever, that seems to be the great divider.

    Indeed, though it's worth remembering that the 50 to 64 year olds are the people who last put Labour in government.
  • Our neighbour is putting up his Christmas lights

    Seems very early to be honest

    Doesn't Christmas start in September now?!
  • DJ41 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    DJ41 said:

    TASS reports today that the Kremlin press office has reported that "it was stressed", meaning by Putin to Erdogan, that "the Kiev regime, with support from its Western patrons, used the humanitarian shipping corridor, created for the transportation of Ukrainian grain, to carry out strikes against the infrastructure and ships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol".

    Has the Ukrainian side denied this?

    They are being accused of a war crime here.

    They're accused of them every day of the week. Some of them they're probably guilty of.

    I have to say though I would be extremely surprised if they had used the humanitarian corridor for such a purpose. Leaving aside morality arguments, they wouldn't have had much to gain from it while if any ships were hit in a counterattack their name would be absolute mud in the west.

    I suspect this claim by Russia is an example of Politicians' Logic in action.
    Russia just being mardy arses. Only the Black Sea Fleet can use the waters of the Black Sea for warfare, apparently.
    The Russian logic is that any attempt by Ukraine to defend themselves is a provocation or an escalation.
    A position shared by Stop the War, Lula, and all right thinking people everywhere.
    No - it's not hogging a sea area, denying Ukraine's right to defend itself, or trying to stop the war.

    No side is allowed to make use of the protection from hostile action that is afforded under a humanitarian agreement to which it is party to carry out acts of war.

    That's called perfidy and it's a war crime.

    This isn't barrack room lawyering. Cr*p all over humanitarian law or say you've got a right to do whatever you like to defend yourself and soon there won't be any humanitarian agreements - or in this case, grain shipments.

    Rustard
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

    It doesn't alter the fact that the policy is not as unpopular with the public as many would have you believe, and of course it is legal challenges that are preventing its implementation
    Hanging is popular, but that doesn’t make it right.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Rishi confirms 91,000 valuable civil service jobs will no longer be got rid of.

    https://twitter.com/the_tuc/status/1587468197019648001?s=61&t=4rOaQPm-NiGt6NrJrQyjag

    That was always infeasible. Where would you find 91,000 valuable civil servants?
    There are some worrying signs emerging that Rishi is easily captured by establishment thinking.

    He needs to work on this. Become more political. More independent. More robust. Less naïve.
    Early signs?! The blob are laughing at the moment.

    Hunt and Sunak are absolutely not going to challenge the managed decline status quo.

    At least the Heathites will own the next defeat.
  • I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

    It doesn't alter the fact that the policy is not as unpopular with the public as many would have you believe, and of course it is legal challenges that are preventing its implementation
    Do people actually understanding the policy? Or just like the concept?

    Not sure that "we've spent £120m, its almost certainly illegal under English law on multiple fronts, and even if we get past that Rwanda won't actually accept any asylum seekers" will be as popular as you say.
  • Our neighbour is putting up his Christmas lights

    Seems very early to be honest

    Doesn't Christmas start in September now?!
    Certainly in some shops and was in M & S today and their food was very much stocked for Christmas
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    RCP has marked up the GOP Senate total gains to +4 - now including NH.

    I've also put some money on Ladbrokes at 8/1 for the GOP to have 49 seats - don't think it will happen but it's good odds if you believe the polling is GOP biased.

    Poll out today has Bolduc (R) a point ahead of
    Hasan (D) 48 47 in NH, not sure what 'tilt' the pollster has (St Anselm College)
    Don't think they are particularly biased one way or the other.

    Biden is campaigning for the NM Governor apparently and there are articles saying if the Ds losing the NY Governorship, then you should blame Andrew Cuomo. It does feel the late break is heading one way.

    I saw something earlier that factions within the NY Dems are blaming Hochul for holding back the rest of the ticket
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Jonathan said:

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

    It doesn't alter the fact that the policy is not as unpopular with the public as many would have you believe, and of course it is legal challenges that are preventing its implementation
    Hanging is popular, but that doesn’t make it right.
    Lockdowns too. And pretty much all of the liberty stripping covid legislation.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    Our neighbour is putting up his Christmas lights

    Seems very early to be honest

    We spotted several yesterday. Christmas lights on Halloween.

    It seems that the clocks going back has replaced December 1st.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    The Danish election doesn't seem to be causing much of a stir on here.
  • I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

    It doesn't alter the fact that the policy is not as unpopular with the public as many would have you believe, and of course it is legal challenges that are preventing its implementation
    Do people actually understanding the policy? Or just like the concept?

    Not sure that "we've spent £120m, its almost certainly illegal under English law on multiple fronts, and even if we get past that Rwanda won't actually accept any asylum seekers" will be as popular as you say.
    It is not me saying it - it is a YouGov poll

    As far as the law is concerned that is yet to be resolved but 42% support indicates that it is not as unpopular as some would hope
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    edited November 2022

    RCP has marked up the GOP Senate total gains to +4 - now including NH.

    I've also put some money on Ladbrokes at 8/1 for the GOP to have 49 seats - don't think it will happen but it's good odds if you believe the polling is GOP biased.

    Poll out today has Bolduc (R) a point ahead of Hasan (D) 48 47 in NH, not sure what 'tilt' the pollster has (St Anselm College)
    That's a good poll for Bolduc.

    Personally, I'd be surprised if the Republicans win NH, because they almost never evict sitting Senators (not sure it's happened since WW2).

    But in a Red Wave, it could well happen.

    Edit to add: my rough guesstimation is that (a) Republicans tend to outperform polls, and (b) incumbents tend to outperform polls. I'd add a new (c), which is that I would expect the Republicans to perform better in Hispanic-heavy states.

    Which means I'm pretty negative about the Dems in NV, on the fence in AZ, but would be surprised if they lost in NH.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Andy_JS said:

    The Danish election doesn't seem to be causing much of a stir on here.

    I was trying to think up some clever puns but meh. STREAKY!
  • Jonathan said:

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

    It doesn't alter the fact that the policy is not as unpopular with the public as many would have you believe, and of course it is legal challenges that are preventing its implementation
    Hanging is popular, but that doesn’t make it right.
    Hanging does not have 42% support
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    In 51st state news, the BBC website has been offering "live coverage of the tributes to Takeoff, who was shot dead early this morning in Houston, Texas".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/63471396

    The reach of BBC News probably means only 4 people watching know who Takeoff is.

    And 2 of them don't give a shiny shit.
    Apparently his band were ‘the Beatles of their generation’ according to that BBC live feed.

    I guess that makes this unfortunate chap their John Lennon.
    You think anybody will know who he was in 40 years time?
    I've heard of Migos, but only from a "which is the odd one out" question with ethos, logos and pathos...
    more of the oeuvre

    Man, fuck, my momma hear my phone. Twelve in my home, they won't leave me alone. My dubstep works, hit by the dirt, right in the zerp. There's a hundred on that quick truck. N---a you turn get outta here. Two two minutes, nice and seen it, grab. Man somebody tell the snakes. He gon tim bance syrup get set. What you mean? Hand you the pistol, hit a mack eleven. Sister car right now holdin n---a dead in seven. Got off the phone with Gucci he told us we on the new. We all over the channels, five five eleven and two. He said be sailor bros and hit me when you need some money. We takin different parts and planes we bout to leave the country.

    and, utterly bizarrely, a genuine California statute which expressly forbids prosecutors relying on lyrics of that kind as evidence against the author, if he is accused of drug dealing and gun violence, because Artistic Expression innit.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/california-bill-banning-rap-lyrics-as-evidence-heads-to-governor-1234579851/

    LOL @ Takeoff.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Our neighbour is putting up his Christmas lights

    Seems very early to be honest

    We spotted several yesterday. Christmas lights on Halloween.

    It seems that the clocks going back has replaced December 1st.
    I always start with some bits Nov 1 and add to the gaiety through to Dec 1
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    Evening all :)

    Exit polls coming out from Denmark - the early prediction is 85 seats for the centre-left parties, 73 for the centre-right and 17 for the Moderates.

    In vote shares, the Epinion exit poll which Danmarks Radio is using, as follows (changes from 2019):

    Social Democrats: 23.1% (-2.8)
    Venstre: 13.5% (-9.9)
    Green Left: 9.6% (+1.9)
    Moderates: 9.3% (new)
    Liberal Alliance: 9.0% (+6.7)
    Denmark Democrats: 6.9% (new)
    Unity List: 6.2% (-0.7)
    Conservatives: 5.5% (-1.1)
    Radikale Venstre: 4.7% (-3.9)
    Alternative: 3.9% (+0.9)
    New Right: 3.8% (+1.4)
    Danish People's Party: 2.5% (-6.2)

    As might be expected, with two new parties taking one sixth of the vote, quite a bit of churn in the shares but the only questions are which way will the Moderates jump and how close the centre-left will get to 90 seats?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    Jonathan said:

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

    It doesn't alter the fact that the policy is not as unpopular with the public as many would have you believe, and of course it is legal challenges that are preventing its implementation
    Hanging is popular, but that doesn’t make it right.
    Hanging does not have 42% support
    Neither does the government.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited November 2022
    Imagine if Labour said that asylum seekers to the UK would have their valuables confiscated in order to pay for their accommodation, and that no neighbourhood could have more than a certain percentage of migrants. That's the official policy of the Social Democrat government in Denmark AFAIK.
  • Andy_JS said:

    The Danish election doesn't seem to be causing much of a stir on here.

    It's probably not causing much of a stir in Denmark either.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    rcs1000 said:

    RCP has marked up the GOP Senate total gains to +4 - now including NH.

    I've also put some money on Ladbrokes at 8/1 for the GOP to have 49 seats - don't think it will happen but it's good odds if you believe the polling is GOP biased.

    Poll out today has Bolduc (R) a point ahead of Hasan (D) 48 47 in NH, not sure what 'tilt' the pollster has (St Anselm College)
    That's a good poll for Bolduc.

    Personally, I'd be surprised if the Republicans win NH, because they almost never evict sitting Senators (not sure it's happened since WW2).

    But in a Red Wave, it could well happen.
    I see the Libertarian has pulled out in Arizona and backed Masters. Might make the difference if Lake breaks through and carries Masters along cross ticket
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,718

    Our neighbour is putting up his Christmas lights

    Seems very early to be honest

    Doesn't Christmas start in September now?!
    Certainly in some shops and was in M & S today and their food was very much stocked for Christmas
    It'll be stale by then.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    DJ41 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    DJ41 said:

    TASS reports today that the Kremlin press office has reported that "it was stressed", meaning by Putin to Erdogan, that "the Kiev regime, with support from its Western patrons, used the humanitarian shipping corridor, created for the transportation of Ukrainian grain, to carry out strikes against the infrastructure and ships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol".

    Has the Ukrainian side denied this?

    They are being accused of a war crime here.

    They're accused of them every day of the week. Some of them they're probably guilty of.

    I have to say though I would be extremely surprised if they had used the humanitarian corridor for such a purpose. Leaving aside morality arguments, they wouldn't have had much to gain from it while if any ships were hit in a counterattack their name would be absolute mud in the west.

    I suspect this claim by Russia is an example of Politicians' Logic in action.
    Russia just being mardy arses. Only the Black Sea Fleet can use the waters of the Black Sea for warfare, apparently.
    The Russian logic is that any attempt by Ukraine to defend themselves is a provocation or an escalation.
    A position shared by Stop the War, Lula, and all right thinking people everywhere.
    No - it's not hogging a sea area, denying Ukraine's right to defend itself, or trying to stop the war.

    No side is allowed to make use of the protection from hostile action that is afforded under a humanitarian agreement to which it is party to carry out acts of war.

    That's called perfidy and it's a war crime.

    This isn't barrack room lawyering. Cr*p all over humanitarian law or say you've got a right to do whatever you like to defend yourself and soon there won't be any humanitarian agreements - or in this case, grain shipments.

    You seem to be commenting on the basis that is what Ukraine did - use the shelter of humanitarian convoys to move weapons. An assertion backed up by zero evidence as far as I can see.
  • Jonathan said:

    I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

    It doesn't alter the fact that the policy is not as unpopular with the public as many would have you believe, and of course it is legal challenges that are preventing its implementation
    Hanging is popular, but that doesn’t make it right.
    Hanging does not have 42% support
    Depends who you want to hang, doesn't it?
  • I blame the sick fucks who put pineapple on pizza for this insanity.


    🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮




  • EPG said:

    That's a much higher level for appropriate use of the word "invasion" than I'd thought.
    "Where are they all flocking from?"
    What the MSM and establishment don't realise is that the average working Joe neither recognises nor understands the complex rules around language that the upper-middle/professional classes subscribe to.

    They are baffled at the presumption that using the wrong ones must mean they are bigoted/racist because they themselves are not and they simply call a spade a spade.
    It's nothing to do with class, and everything to do with whether you hate random other people. For example, having used the word 'libtard' suggests you hate a bunch of random other people.
    It's certainly derogatory and offensive, but it does capture a certain behaviour and type: people whose Liberalism is engaged at an emotive level when certain issues come up such that it retards their ability to think rationally.
    Is it generically any diferent to the word 'redneck', which I take to be its opposite number?
    Nope.
  • I notice yougov have 42%/37% support Rwanda policy

    I think that may come as a surprise to some and not sure but Braverman may have hit a cord with her much criticised 'invasion'

    It is certainly divisive and not easily resolved

    Although strongly oppose is just ahead of strongly support - and both are in the mid-20s.

    It doesn't alter the fact that the policy is not as unpopular with the public as many would have you believe, and of course it is legal challenges that are preventing its implementation
    Do people actually understanding the policy? Or just like the concept?

    Not sure that "we've spent £120m, its almost certainly illegal under English law on multiple fronts, and even if we get past that Rwanda won't actually accept any asylum seekers" will be as popular as you say.
    It is not me saying it - it is a YouGov poll

    As far as the law is concerned that is yet to be resolved but 42% support indicates that it is not as unpopular as some would hope
    Thats literally my point - how many people polled have a clue about the detail or practicality?
This discussion has been closed.