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Defection watch – politicalbetting.com

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  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited October 2022
    8.23pm GMT
    5.61% (7.0 million) counted so far.
    Bolsonaro on 53.2%.

    Lula in to 1.21 at Betfair.
    Lula will win this.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
  • Foxy said:

    Counting looking quicker than Rd 1, over 3.1 million votes counted in 20 minutes.

    Any exit poll?
    No there won't be one.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Wikiepedia will do for me.

    Bolsawood is only winning the Federal District 60/40 at the moment. He won it 70/30 in 2018. 72% counted so unless that's heavily skewed he'd down quite a bit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Between gerrymandering, voter suppression, Roe driven voting, and the level of general craziness endemic in America, it isn't a market that tempts me.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    If you count an irrelevant metric, then yes.

    Whatever it is, it's not gerrymandering - it's the system that has been in place for hundreds of years.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Popular vote winners in reverse chorological order
    Biden
    Clinton
    Obama
    Obama
    Bush
    Gore
    Clinton
    Clinton

    7/8
  • rcs1000 said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.



    I completely agree that the smart bet is on the polls being wrong by 3-4%, but I'd caution that it could be the other way around.

    What I would bet against is a "soggy middle" result: i.e. 50/50 or the Republicans ending up 1-2. That's about 50% of the betting range and I think the last likely outcome.
    I'd agree with the 'soggy middle' result bit. The mood at the moment doesn't feel very consensual at the moment.

    Re the polls being off the other way i.e. we could get a surprise Dem majority, entirely possible but the actions of both sides (GOP Super PACs putting money into AZ and NH that they had abandoned and Dem money going into NY / WA) suggests both sides are thinking the tide is moving the same way.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Popular vote winners in reverse chorological order
    Biden
    Clinton
    Obama
    Obama
    Bush
    Gore
    Clinton
    Clinton

    7/8
    Gore was a bit unlucky. Hillary Clinton was a bad enough candidate that she'd likely have contrived to lose no matter what the rules were.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Tocantins quite a bit better for Bolsohuricanrana 52% counted and it's 48/52 to the wannabe dictator. He lost it 49/51 in 2018.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited October 2022

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Though having said that I suspect McCain would have beaten Gore in the popular vote in 2000 and Kasich would have beaten Hillary in the popular vote in 2016


    So more rejecting moderate candidates costs the GOP the popular vote, if the EC did not exist they would have to pick more moderates, not just hardline Conservatives or rightwing populists.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    And big numbers out of Amazonas with 25% counted Bolsorandom is up 6pts
  • Brazil: I am measuring the swing from the first round to the second. I think there is on average a very small swing to Lula. He was 5.2% ahead so I predict 53.5 to 46.5.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    rcs1000 said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.



    I completely agree that the smart bet is on the polls being wrong by 3-4%, but I'd caution that it could be the other way around.

    What I would bet against is a "soggy middle" result: i.e. 50/50 or the Republicans ending up 1-2. That's about 50% of the betting range and I think the last likely outcome.
    I'd agree with the 'soggy middle' result bit. The mood at the moment doesn't feel very consensual at the moment.

    Re the polls being off the other way i.e. we could get a surprise Dem majority, entirely possible but the actions of both sides (GOP Super PACs putting money into AZ and NH that they had abandoned and Dem money going into NY / WA) suggests both sides are thinking the tide is moving the same way.
    Oh, I completely agree that the Republicans are definitely the ones with the momentum.

    But the odds being offered on Democrat outperformance are really attractive.

    Take them.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    This isn't something I'm confident on betting on without an @AndyJS polling and turnout model.

    It's difficult to come up with a spreadsheet for Brazil.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    Brazil’s going to be a contested election isn’t it?
  • TimS said:

    Brazil’s going to be a contested election isn’t it?

    If you mean Jair refusing to leave... possibly...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Argh. Shoulda bought back in at 1.65

    But, I had no real information
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Someone was asking for a definition of Woke-ism the other day.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1586676603823742981

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    "Woke" or radical progressivism erodes liberalism bc

    1 elevates group over individual, we are no more than fixed race/sex/gender ID groups
    2 elevates 'lived experience' over scientific method & curtails free speech
    3 not just critical but cynical of ways of life that unite us
    Quote Tweet
    John Pavlovitz
    @johnpavlovitz
    ·
    Oct 26
    Using "woke" as a pejorative term is an iron-clad tell that you lack human empathy and find other's suffering of no concern.

    Prove me wrong.
    11:09 AM · Oct 30, 2022
    ·Twitter Web App"
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    On the other hand with 30% counted Bolsonandos is down 7 pts in Acre. Small district but comfortably election losing numbers if replicated elsewhere.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459

    Counting looking quicker than Rd 1, over 3.1 million votes counted in 20 minutes.

    Not a patch on Sunderland, though.
    Newcastle has counted quicker than Sunderland the past few elections FYI
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748
    Leon banned? An election night coup in Brazil? Liz Truss to be next PM?

    What a lot of news. Now back to that Finland rumour. I’ve spent months dipping in and out of Google Translate to see if I can find it. And I can’t. I give up. Help. Please.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Popular vote winners in reverse chorological order
    Biden
    Clinton
    Obama
    Obama
    Bush
    Gore
    Clinton
    Clinton

    7/8
    More relevant to look at the House popular vote winners:
    D, D, R, R, D, R, D, D, R, R, R, R, D, R, D
    Over that period (I think)
  • Lula still in a better position than at this stage in the first round. He won that by 5.23%. The order of votes counted would have to be very different for him to lose now.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.



    I completely agree that the smart bet is on the polls being wrong by 3-4%, but I'd caution that it could be the other way around.

    What I would bet against is a "soggy middle" result: i.e. 50/50 or the Republicans ending up 1-2. That's about 50% of the betting range and I think the last likely outcome.
    I'd agree with the 'soggy middle' result bit. The mood at the moment doesn't feel very consensual at the moment.

    Re the polls being off the other way i.e. we could get a surprise Dem majority, entirely possible but the actions of both sides (GOP Super PACs putting money into AZ and NH that they had abandoned and Dem money going into NY / WA) suggests both sides are thinking the tide is moving the same way.
    Oh, I completely agree that the Republicans are definitely the ones with the momentum.

    But the odds being offered on Democrat outperformance are really attractive.

    Take them.
    That's true, I might nibble a bit
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.



    I completely agree that the smart bet is on the polls being wrong by 3-4%, but I'd caution that it could be the other way around.

    What I would bet against is a "soggy middle" result: i.e. 50/50 or the Republicans ending up 1-2. That's about 50% of the betting range and I think the last likely outcome.
    I'd agree with the 'soggy middle' result bit. The mood at the moment doesn't feel very consensual at the moment.

    Re the polls being off the other way i.e. we could get a surprise Dem majority, entirely possible but the actions of both sides (GOP Super PACs putting money into AZ and NH that they had abandoned and Dem money going into NY / WA) suggests both sides are thinking the tide is moving the same way.
    Oh, I completely agree that the Republicans are definitely the ones with the momentum.

    But the odds being offered on Democrat outperformance are really attractive.

    Take them.
    Has something just happened in the US?

    Ladbrokes have taken down their bets for the Senate / Gubernatorial races.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    TimS said:

    Brazil’s going to be a contested election isn’t it?

    It looks like Lula may be able to win decisively, based on the latest returns.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    edited October 2022

    TimS said:

    Brazil’s going to be a contested election isn’t it?

    If you mean Jair refusing to leave... possibly...
    Yep. Clear though close Lula win, but Bolsonaro will claim it was stolen.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Andy_JS said:
    I've bet NOM and Dem majority at long odds.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    edited October 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Someone was asking for a definition of Woke-ism the other day.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1586676603823742981

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    "Woke" or radical progressivism erodes liberalism bc

    1 elevates group over individual, we are no more than fixed race/sex/gender ID groups
    2 elevates 'lived experience' over scientific method & curtails free speech
    3 not just critical but cynical of ways of life that unite us
    Quote Tweet
    John Pavlovitz
    @johnpavlovitz
    ·
    Oct 26
    Using "woke" as a pejorative term is an iron-clad tell that you lack human empathy and find other's suffering of no concern.

    Prove me wrong.
    11:09 AM · Oct 30, 2022
    ·Twitter Web App"

    Goodwin is an exceptionally shallow thinker, isn't he? What a load of garbage. I thought standards at British universities were meant to be high.

    Example: he says woke 'elevates group over individual', then that it 'elevates 'lived experience over....'. I'd have thought 'lived experience' is pretty individual?
  • 1st round:

    16.0% counted, Lula's lead was -4.50%

    2nd round

    16.2% counted, Lula's lead is -3.4%

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Lula drifted to 1.3

    Not sure why
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2022

    Lula still in a better position than at this stage in the first round. He won that by 5.23%. The order of votes counted would have to be very different for him to lose now.

    Yeah, Bolsononono is doing slightly better in districts he lost compared to last time (but there is a vote count order affect) but much worse in districts he won.

    At the moment it looks like an easy clap for Lula.
  • 1st round:

    16.0% counted, Lula's lead was -4.50%

    2nd round

    16.2% counted, Lula's lead is -3.4%

    Lula won by 5.23% remember. He could afford to slightly underperform; at the moment, he's slightly overperforming.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited October 2022

    Lula drifted to 1.3

    Not sure why

    I'm projecting the vote shares not to change for another 10% counted. Lula could drift further.

    Could be profitable.
  • Lula drifted to 1.3

    Not sure why

    Yep there was a big move in for him down to 1.17 then out again, this market is a real rollercoaster.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    Not much move in tonight's Megafon poll in Denmark.

    The centre-left parties have 47.8% , the centre-right 43.3% and the Moderates 8.8%.

    The swing between the two blocs is negligible and both have lost 4 to 4.5 percent and you can see where it might have gone (though obviously there's a lot more churn going on than just that).
  • 1st round:

    20.0% counted, Lula's lead was -4.60%

    2nd round

    19.98% counted, Lula's lead is -3.1%



  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    Lula drifted to 1.3

    Not sure why

    I'm projecting the vote shares not to change for another 10% counted. Lula could drift further.

    Could be profitable.
    OK, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

    Rebuy at 1.36 for me.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Lula went out to 1.38, now in to 1.22 within about a minute.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone was asking for a definition of Woke-ism the other day.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1586676603823742981

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    "Woke" or radical progressivism erodes liberalism bc

    1 elevates group over individual, we are no more than fixed race/sex/gender ID groups
    2 elevates 'lived experience' over scientific method & curtails free speech
    3 not just critical but cynical of ways of life that unite us
    Quote Tweet
    John Pavlovitz
    @johnpavlovitz
    ·
    Oct 26
    Using "woke" as a pejorative term is an iron-clad tell that you lack human empathy and find other's suffering of no concern.

    Prove me wrong.
    11:09 AM · Oct 30, 2022
    ·Twitter Web App"

    Goodwin is an exceptionally shallow thinker, isn't he? What a load of garbage. I thought standards at British universities were meant to be high.
    He’s someone who defines himself against the prevailing norms. That can sometimes be valuable, but not when you just slip into the other lot of mirror image prevailing norms on the other side of the culture wars, which he does.

    On a very not related topic, having just listened twice through the Now 90s Dancefloor compendium I am confident that the greatest dance anthem of all time is, despite strong competition from the likes of Urban Cookie Collective, “Set You Free” by N-Trance. Transcendent.

    Said compilation album is a treasure trove. Dr Alban, Haddaway, Faithless, Underworld, 2 unlimited. They’re all there.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    DJ41 said:

    Lula went out to 1.38, now in to 1.22 within about a minute.

    I tapped that up at 1.36 - nick of time
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Might be a Trump/Brexit factor here where the market is hypersensitive to anything vaguely good for Bolsonaro
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone was asking for a definition of Woke-ism the other day.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1586676603823742981

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    "Woke" or radical progressivism erodes liberalism bc

    1 elevates group over individual, we are no more than fixed race/sex/gender ID groups
    2 elevates 'lived experience' over scientific method & curtails free speech
    3 not just critical but cynical of ways of life that unite us
    Quote Tweet
    John Pavlovitz
    @johnpavlovitz
    ·
    Oct 26
    Using "woke" as a pejorative term is an iron-clad tell that you lack human empathy and find other's suffering of no concern.

    Prove me wrong.
    11:09 AM · Oct 30, 2022
    ·Twitter Web App"

    Goodwin is an exceptionally shallow thinker, isn't he? What a load of garbage. I thought standards at British universities were meant to be high.
    He’s someone who defines himself against the prevailing norms. That can sometimes be valuable, but not when you just slip into the other lot of mirror image prevailing norms on the other side of the culture wars, which he does.

    On a very not related topic, having just listened twice through the Now 90s Dancefloor compendium I am confident that the greatest dance anthem of all time is, despite strong competition from the likes of Urban Cookie Collective, “Set You Free” by N-Trance. Transcendent.

    Said compilation album is a treasure trove. Dr Alban, Haddaway, Faithless, Underworld, 2 unlimited. They’re all there.
    Not so sure I agree with your first sentence. Surely Goodwin's anti-wokeism is in line with the prevailing norms, rather than against them?
  • Might be a Trump/Brexit factor here where the market is hypersensitive to anything vaguely good for Bolsonaro

    Sometimes they know something you don't. But mostly... they don't. Pleased you got the 1.36
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    edited October 2022

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Please engage your brain (meant in the nicest possible way). You, of course, know the results below:

    1976-80: Dem x1
    1980-92: GOP x3
    92-00: Dem x2
    00-08: GOP x2
    08-16: Dem x 2
    16-20: GOP x1
    20-24: Dem x1

    Unless you start claiming the electoral college doesn’t count and therefore the GOP are gerrymandering the claim doesn’t stand.

    I haven’t checked the popular vote numbers but I suspect that Hillary beating Trump on popular vote is the claim they are making.

    Assuming the electoral college and popular vote lines up in all other cases, the Dems win 6 out of the last 8 contests.

    Edit: h/t @Alistair Id forgotten Gore won the popular vote
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    In the following years, Republicans won the House of Representatives popular vote:

    2016
    2014
    2010
    2004
    2002
    2000
    1998
    1994
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections (and preceding years)

    Three comments: First, in the earlier years, gerrymandering tended to favor the Democrats since they had been the majority party in so many states, for so long.

    Second, in 2012, Republicans did keep control of the House in spite of losing the popular vote, 47.7-48.8 percent. (This is not surprising since Democrats are more likely to be in districts that are heavily Democratic. In a few suchdistricts there will not even be a Republican running, which reduces their total popular vote.)

    Third, I have been arguing since 2016 that Donald Trump was the beneficiary of "reverse coattails", that he won because of the popularity of other Republican candidates in a few key states. The Republican popular vote win in 2016 provides a little more evidence for my argument.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    Brazil

    Evening all, polls close 8pm UK, 5pm Brasilia

    https://resultados.tse.jus.br/oficial/app/index.html#/eleicao/resultados

    https://g1.globo.com/politica/eleicoes/2022/apuracao/presidente.ghtml

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq2B49ltg8M

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlNjH_NvBVY

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.180434883

    Gut feel is Lula with 51-52% but wouldn't be totally amazed if Bolsonaro pulls it off.

    Note that when Rousseff won with 51.4% in 2014, she was behind for the first 80%+ of the count.

    Denmark and Israel vote on Tuesday.

    Thanks,

    DC

    Do the cities come in first? I would have expected Lula to do better there and be ahead at the start but no, he’s behind.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    Might be a Trump/Brexit factor here where the market is hypersensitive to anything vaguely good for Bolsonaro

    Sometimes they know something you don't. But mostly... they don't. Pleased you got the 1.36
    Thanks. Not for a 17 million market.

    Too big.
  • Might be a Trump/Brexit factor here where the market is hypersensitive to anything vaguely good for Bolsonaro

    Sometimes they know something you don't. But mostly... they don't. Pleased you got the 1.36
    Thanks. Not for a 17 million market.

    Too big.
    I'd price it at 1.15.

    Obviously I could be wrong, but my money is where my mouth is.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone was asking for a definition of Woke-ism the other day.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1586676603823742981

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    "Woke" or radical progressivism erodes liberalism bc

    1 elevates group over individual, we are no more than fixed race/sex/gender ID groups
    2 elevates 'lived experience' over scientific method & curtails free speech
    3 not just critical but cynical of ways of life that unite us
    Quote Tweet
    John Pavlovitz
    @johnpavlovitz
    ·
    Oct 26
    Using "woke" as a pejorative term is an iron-clad tell that you lack human empathy and find other's suffering of no concern.

    Prove me wrong.
    11:09 AM · Oct 30, 2022
    ·Twitter Web App"

    Goodwin is an exceptionally shallow thinker, isn't he? What a load of garbage. I thought standards at British universities were meant to be high.

    Example: he says woke 'elevates group over individual', then that it 'elevates 'lived experience over....'. I'd have thought 'lived experience' is pretty individual?
    I think he means it tends to focus on lived experience of groups.

    Of course this is Goodwin's definition of 'woke.' Since there is no agreed definition of the term people seem to spend a lot of time arguing in the dark.
  • DavidL said:

    Brazil

    Evening all, polls close 8pm UK, 5pm Brasilia

    https://resultados.tse.jus.br/oficial/app/index.html#/eleicao/resultados

    https://g1.globo.com/politica/eleicoes/2022/apuracao/presidente.ghtml

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq2B49ltg8M

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlNjH_NvBVY

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.180434883

    Gut feel is Lula with 51-52% but wouldn't be totally amazed if Bolsonaro pulls it off.

    Note that when Rousseff won with 51.4% in 2014, she was behind for the first 80%+ of the count.

    Denmark and Israel vote on Tuesday.

    Thanks,

    DC

    Do the cities come in first? I would have expected Lula to do better there and be ahead at the start but no, he’s behind.

    As far as I know, smaller localities come in first. So Rousseff won 51.6% in 2014 but trailed for the first 80% or so of the vote count.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2022
    DavidL said:

    Brazil

    Evening all, polls close 8pm UK, 5pm Brasilia

    https://resultados.tse.jus.br/oficial/app/index.html#/eleicao/resultados

    https://g1.globo.com/politica/eleicoes/2022/apuracao/presidente.ghtml

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq2B49ltg8M

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlNjH_NvBVY

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.180434883

    Gut feel is Lula with 51-52% but wouldn't be totally amazed if Bolsonaro pulls it off.

    Note that when Rousseff won with 51.4% in 2014, she was behind for the first 80%+ of the count.

    Denmark and Israel vote on Tuesday.

    Thanks,

    DC

    Do the cities come in first? I would have expected Lula to do better there and be ahead at the start but no, he’s behind.

    Rural areas first. Cities well late.
  • 1st round:

    26.0% counted, Lula's lead was -4.20%

    2nd round

    26.04% counted, Lula's lead is -2.5%
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    Argh. Shoulda bought back in at 1.65

    But, I had no real information

    Remain disciplined. If you don’t have an edge you might be lucky. But you’re still a mug.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    Argh. Shoulda bought back in at 1.65

    But, I had no real information

    Remain disciplined. If you don’t have an edge you might be lucky. But you’re still a mug.
    Bored, is what I am.
  • Federal District is 96% counted, Bolsonaro on 59% v 70% 2018 Rd 2
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Might be a Trump/Brexit factor here where the market is hypersensitive to anything vaguely good for Bolsonaro

    Sometimes they know something you don't. But mostly... they don't. Pleased you got the 1.36
    Thanks. Not for a 17 million market.

    Too big.
    I'd price it at 1.15.

    Obviously I could be wrong, but my money is where my mouth is.
    This was an insane market. 3rd and 4th place both endorsed Lula, even if he picked up just half of their vote he wins.

    He almost hit evens between the two rounds. I cursed maxing my exposure at 1.5.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459

    Federal District is 96% counted, Bolsonaro on 59% v 70% 2018 Rd 2

    This is amateur hour vote rigging
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841

    Off topic, but soon to be relevant in American politics: Tomorrow the Supreme Court takes up affirmative action, the idea that it is OK for colleges and universities to discriminate by race, if they discriminate against the right races. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I think in the UK that is often called "positive discrimination".)

    George Will explains what it at stake, clearly: "The oral arguments the Supreme Court will hear Monday concern two cases that are momentous, even though the desirable outcomes would not prevent the losing parties from continuing reprehensible practices. The cases concern racial preferences in admissions to Harvard and the University of North Carolina. By holding that such preferences violate the Constitution’s guarantee of equal protection of the laws and the 1964 Civil Rights Act’s prohibition of racial discrimination by recipients of federal funding, the court can bolster the wholesome belief held by a large, diverse American majority: that the nation’s laws should be colorblind."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/28/college-racial-discrimination-affirmative-action-supreme-court/

    He's right to say that, no matter how the court rules, the colleges and universities will continue to discriminate, in spite of the illegality and unpoplarity of the practice: "In 1996, Californians voted 54.6 percent that the state “shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to,” any individual or group on the basis of race in public education. In 2020, a much bluer and more diverse California was asked to repeal the 1996 proposition. Instead, Californians endorsed it more emphatically (57.2 percent). A national Pew Research Center poll in April found 74 percent hostile to racial preferences, including Hispanics (68 percent), Asians (63), Blacks (59), Republicans (87) and Democrats (62). The sordid business of divvying us up by race has brought us together in opposition to it."

    In the rest of the newspaper, the editors come out in favor of affirmative action, and hope the Court can find some way to keep it going, and Roland G. Fryer Jr., an economcs professor at Harvard, says he benefited from affirmative action, but hopes his children never do -- and makes an argument for a "data-driven" replacement, where students who have mixed records but potential, are given a chance to realize that potential.

    (Full disclosure: Washington state, like California, has twice voted against affirmative action -- and I was in the majority both times. I beleive it is unconstitutional, illegal, and usually hurts most of those who are "favored" by it.)

    This issue was always going to arise. It's over 5 decades since the civil rights act and the US is now more of a multi-racial society than a bi-racial one.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Bolsonaro currently ahead 51% to 48% for Lula with 29% in

    https://resultados.tse.jus.br/oficial/app/index.html#/eleicao/resultados
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    Argh. Shoulda bought back in at 1.65

    But, I had no real information

    Remain disciplined. If you don’t have an edge you might be lucky. But you’re still a mug.
    Bored, is what I am.
    A bored mug doesn’t hold water
  • THEWHITERABBIT projects

    Lula wins by 7%, 53.5% to 46.5%.

    Okay, that's a joke, but that is my forecast at the moment.
  • Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Please engage your brain (meant in the nicest possible way). You, of course, know the results below:

    1976-80: Dem x1
    1980-92: GOP x3
    92-00: Dem x2
    00-08: GOP x2
    08-16: Dem x 2
    16-20: GOP x1
    20-24: Dem x1

    Unless you start claiming the electoral college doesn’t count and therefore the GOP are gerrymandering the claim doesn’t stand.

    I haven’t checked the popular vote numbers but I suspect that Hillary beating Trump on popular vote is the claim they are making.

    Assuming the electoral college and popular vote lines up in all other cases, the Dems win 6 out of the last 8 contests.

    Edit: h/t @Alistair Id forgotten Gore won the popular vote
    The electoral college IS a gerrymander - the smaller Republican states get far more electors per head of population.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    As more votes come in Bolsorefoot is now underperforming in the districts he lost
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone was asking for a definition of Woke-ism the other day.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1586676603823742981

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    "Woke" or radical progressivism erodes liberalism bc

    1 elevates group over individual, we are no more than fixed race/sex/gender ID groups
    2 elevates 'lived experience' over scientific method & curtails free speech
    3 not just critical but cynical of ways of life that unite us
    Quote Tweet
    John Pavlovitz
    @johnpavlovitz
    ·
    Oct 26
    Using "woke" as a pejorative term is an iron-clad tell that you lack human empathy and find other's suffering of no concern.

    Prove me wrong.
    11:09 AM · Oct 30, 2022
    ·Twitter Web App"

    Goodwin is an exceptionally shallow thinker, isn't he? What a load of garbage. I thought standards at British universities were meant to be high.
    He’s someone who defines himself against the prevailing norms. That can sometimes be valuable, but not when you just slip into the other lot of mirror image prevailing norms on the other side of the culture wars, which he does.

    On a very not related topic, having just listened twice through the Now 90s Dancefloor compendium I am confident that the greatest dance anthem of all time is, despite strong competition from the likes of Urban Cookie Collective, “Set You Free” by N-Trance. Transcendent.

    Said compilation album is a treasure trove. Dr Alban, Haddaway, Faithless, Underworld, 2 unlimited. They’re all there.
    Not so sure I agree with your first sentence. Surely Goodwin's anti-wokeism is in line with the prevailing norms, rather than against them?
    He defines himself against what he sees as the prevailing norms. To be fair in academia he will definitely be an outlier.

    But more importantly what about N-Trance?
  • Alistair said:

    Might be a Trump/Brexit factor here where the market is hypersensitive to anything vaguely good for Bolsonaro

    Sometimes they know something you don't. But mostly... they don't. Pleased you got the 1.36
    Thanks. Not for a 17 million market.

    Too big.
    I'd price it at 1.15.

    Obviously I could be wrong, but my money is where my mouth is.
    This was an insane market. 3rd and 4th place both endorsed Lula, even if he picked up just half of their vote he wins.

    He almost hit evens between the two rounds. I cursed maxing my exposure at 1.5.
    I was prepared to believe there might have been a swing to Bolsonaro between rounds, but we're 31% counted!!
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Brazil’s going to be a contested election isn’t it?

    If you mean Jair refusing to leave... possibly...
    Yep. Clear though close Lula win, but Bolsonaro will claim it was stolen.
    What is it with these far-right populists?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    Bolsonaro currently ahead 51% to 48% for Lula with 29% in

    https://resultados.tse.jus.br/oficial/app/index.html#/eleicao/resultados

    Ah, perfect for a 'I was ahead and then, magically as votes came in, I lost, this must be treachery' call.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    With 13% counted Rio de Janeiro is looking horrific for Bols
  • At this rate, Lula will take the lead with approx. 50% counted. In the first round, it was 68% counted.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Please engage your brain (meant in the nicest possible way). You, of course, know the results below:

    1976-80: Dem x1
    1980-92: GOP x3
    92-00: Dem x2
    00-08: GOP x2
    08-16: Dem x 2
    16-20: GOP x1
    20-24: Dem x1

    Unless you start claiming the electoral college doesn’t count and therefore the GOP are gerrymandering the claim doesn’t stand.

    I haven’t checked the popular vote numbers but I suspect that Hillary beating Trump on popular vote is the claim they are making.

    Assuming the electoral college and popular vote lines up in all other cases, the Dems win 6 out of the last 8 contests.

    Edit: h/t @Alistair Id forgotten Gore won the popular vote
    The electoral college IS a gerrymander - the smaller Republican states get far more electors per head of population.
    Gerrymandering is specifically changing the boundaries of electoral districts to benefit the party doing the drawing.

    Whatever the Electoral College is, it's not that.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Note: I should have added that Repubblicans kept control of the House in 1996 as well as 2012, in spite of losing the popular vote 48.15-48.22 percent. (The same argument I made for 2012 applies to 1996.)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    One thing is for sure: Sean will be smiling at the fact that he's one of the main topics of conversation even though he's not on...

    Which is exactly what feeds him. ;)

    Reading that Gremlins springs to mind, and is quite apposite I think.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Maybe it's going to be closer than we thought.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1586824630232391684
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone was asking for a definition of Woke-ism the other day.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1586676603823742981

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    "Woke" or radical progressivism erodes liberalism bc

    1 elevates group over individual, we are no more than fixed race/sex/gender ID groups
    2 elevates 'lived experience' over scientific method & curtails free speech
    3 not just critical but cynical of ways of life that unite us
    Quote Tweet
    John Pavlovitz
    @johnpavlovitz
    ·
    Oct 26
    Using "woke" as a pejorative term is an iron-clad tell that you lack human empathy and find other's suffering of no concern.

    Prove me wrong.
    11:09 AM · Oct 30, 2022
    ·Twitter Web App"

    Goodwin is an exceptionally shallow thinker, isn't he? What a load of garbage. I thought standards at British universities were meant to be high.

    Example: he says woke 'elevates group over individual', then that it 'elevates 'lived experience over....'. I'd have thought 'lived experience' is pretty individual?

    I don't think his three principles are all meant to be completely consistent with each other, they are just three examples of things going on that conflict with the principles of liberalism.

    Even if they are read together; under 'woke' thinking, a group could claim 'victim status' on the basis of their 'lived experience', despite actual 'evidence' to the contrary.

    The failure of 'liberals' to engage in this debate and curb the excesses of the 'radical progressives' and their march through the institutions will lead to people voting for right wing parties. It certainly appears to be boosting the Republicans in the US.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited October 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's going to be closer than we thought.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1586824630232391684

    Looks very close. Whoever wins Brazil split right down the middle

    @patrickjfl
    Brazil projection using municipality swings (24.48% counted)

    🔴 Lula: 50.5% (-0.2)
    🔵 Bolsonaro: 49.5% (+0.2)

  • Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's going to be closer than we thought.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1586824630232391684

    The latest from Patrick:

    Brazil projection using municipality swings in areas with 50%+ counted (36.3% of the vote in)

    🔴 Lula: 50.4% (-)
    🔵 Bolsonaro: 49.6% (-)

    My projection is a 6.5% win, btw.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So far the big states are a disasterzone for Bolsobalero

    2018
    Sao Paulo 68/32
    Minas Gerais 58/42
    Rio de Janeiro 68/32

    2022
    Sao Paulo 57/42 (23% counted)
    Minas Gerais 50/50 (26% counted)
    Rio de Janeiro 56/43 (22% counted)
  • 1st round:

    41.2% counted, Lula's lead was -2.8%

    2nd round

    41.75% counted, Lula's lead is -1.2%
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's going to be closer than we thought.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1586824630232391684

    The latest from Patrick:

    Brazil projection using municipality swings in areas with 50%+ counted (36.3% of the vote in)

    🔴 Lula: 50.4% (-)
    🔵 Bolsonaro: 49.6% (-)

    My projection is a 6.5% win, btw.
    What do we think is the Bolsonaro threshold to claim foul play? 51/49? 53/47?

    I’d imagine he might go for it even if thrashed but half heartedly, whereas if it’s close to 50:50 we’re talking full on 6 de Janeiro.
  • Put it another way, Lula's vote share ONLY INCREASED, right to the finish line, in the first round.

    It's currently 49.42%.

    It would take a re-ordering of results on a very grand scale.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's going to be closer than we thought.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1586824630232391684

    Something seems wrong about using the approach to project but I can't quite put my finger on it.

    EDIT: got it, it's going to favour the smaller Bolsonaro heavy areas for the moment which he is doing well in. I think this projection is going to swing heavily.
  • TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's going to be closer than we thought.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1586824630232391684

    The latest from Patrick:

    Brazil projection using municipality swings in areas with 50%+ counted (36.3% of the vote in)

    🔴 Lula: 50.4% (-)
    🔵 Bolsonaro: 49.6% (-)

    My projection is a 6.5% win, btw.
    What do we think is the Bolsonaro threshold to claim foul play? 51/49? 53/47?

    I’d imagine he might go for it even if thrashed but half heartedly, whereas if it’s close to 50:50 we’re talking full on 6 de Janeiro.
    53/47, I reckon. At that point, he complains, but leaves.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Please engage your brain (meant in the nicest possible way). You, of course, know the results below:

    1976-80: Dem x1
    1980-92: GOP x3
    92-00: Dem x2
    00-08: GOP x2
    08-16: Dem x 2
    16-20: GOP x1
    20-24: Dem x1

    Unless you start claiming the electoral college doesn’t count and therefore the GOP are gerrymandering the claim doesn’t stand.

    I haven’t checked the popular vote numbers but I suspect that Hillary beating Trump on popular vote is the claim they are making.

    Assuming the electoral college and popular vote lines up in all other cases, the Dems win 6 out of the last 8 contests.

    Edit: h/t @Alistair Id forgotten Gore won the popular vote
    The electoral college IS a gerrymander - the smaller Republican states get far more electors per head of population.
    No - a gerrymander is changing the boundaries of a voting district to favour one side or the other.

    The electoral college members are selected based on a formula that (I think) is the number of members of the House of Representatives plus the number of Senators. Because the number of Senators is always two regardless of size this favours the smaller states. But it’s not a gerrymander.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    So how low does Lula have to go before it's worth laying him to lock in some profit. 1.1? Or is it better to not lay and maximise the profit...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited October 2022
    Matt Goodwin is a spoof academic.

    Surely no-one on PB actually takes him seriously?
  • Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's going to be closer than we thought.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1586824630232391684

    Something seems wrong about using the approach to project but I can't quite put my finger on it.

    EDIT: got it, it's going to favour the smaller Bolsonaro heavy areas for the moment which he is doing well in. I think this projection is going to swing heavily.
    If it's swing based, surely that's less of a concern. For Bolsonaro to overtake Lula, he logically wins votes everywhere.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Balrog said:

    So how low does Lula have to go before it's worth laying him to lock in some profit. 1.1? Or is it better to not lay and maximise the profit...

    If you think it's going to be close then it's worth locking in.

    If not, let it ride.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Is there an English language channel on which I can watch the Brazilian election?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Nostalgia trip.

    A vintage “Encyclopedia Britannica” Commercial from 1988
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/58920207
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Please engage your brain (meant in the nicest possible way). You, of course, know the results below:

    1976-80: Dem x1
    1980-92: GOP x3
    92-00: Dem x2
    00-08: GOP x2
    08-16: Dem x 2
    16-20: GOP x1
    20-24: Dem x1

    Unless you start claiming the electoral college doesn’t count and therefore the GOP are gerrymandering the claim doesn’t stand.

    I haven’t checked the popular vote numbers but I suspect that Hillary beating Trump on popular vote is the claim they are making.

    Assuming the electoral college and popular vote lines up in all other cases, the Dems win 6 out of the last 8 contests.

    Edit: h/t @Alistair Id forgotten Gore won the popular vote
    The electoral college IS a gerrymander - the smaller Republican states get far more electors per head of population.
    No - a gerrymander is changing the boundaries of a voting district to favour one side or the other.

    The electoral college members are selected based on a formula that (I think) is the number of members of the House of Representatives plus the number of Senators. Because the number of Senators is always two regardless of size this favours the smaller states. But it’s not a gerrymander.
    Well, it is, but it was a gerrymander to get Slave States to sign up back at the founding. Many founding fathers wanted a straight popular vote for Presidency but slave states objected. Madison formulated the Electoral Collage and the 3/5ths abomination to get the Slave states on board.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Nigelb said:

    Nostalgia trip.

    A vintage “Encyclopedia Britannica” Commercial from 1988
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/58920207

    Wrong link? 🫤
  • Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Please engage your brain (meant in the nicest possible way). You, of course, know the results below:

    1976-80: Dem x1
    1980-92: GOP x3
    92-00: Dem x2
    00-08: GOP x2
    08-16: Dem x 2
    16-20: GOP x1
    20-24: Dem x1

    Unless you start claiming the electoral
    college doesn’t count and therefore the
    GOP are gerrymandering the claim doesn’t stand.

    I haven’t checked the popular vote numbers but I suspect that Hillary beating Trump on popular vote is the claim they are making.

    Assuming the electoral college and popular vote lines up in all other cases, the Dems win 6 out of the last 8 contests.

    Edit: h/t @Alistair Id forgotten Gore won the popular vote
    The electoral college IS a gerrymander - the smaller Republican states get far more electors per head of population.
    No - a gerrymander is changing the boundaries of a voting district to favour one side or the other.

    The electoral college members are selected based on a formula that (I think) is the number of members of the House of Representatives plus the number of Senators. Because the number of Senators is always two
    regardless of size this favours the
    smaller states. But it’s not a gerrymander.
    It's amazing it still needs to be explained re the Senate.

    Each state having two Senators was a deliberate move by the Founding Fathers to ensure that the smaller states had some sort of firewall against being dominated by the large populous states.

    So, yes, it's entirely designed to make sure it is NOT representative of population (the Senate not the EC votes).

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Please engage your brain (meant in the nicest possible way). You, of course, know the results below:

    1976-80: Dem x1
    1980-92: GOP x3
    92-00: Dem x2
    00-08: GOP x2
    08-16: Dem x 2
    16-20: GOP x1
    20-24: Dem x1

    Unless you start claiming the electoral college doesn’t count and therefore the GOP are gerrymandering the claim doesn’t stand.

    I haven’t checked the popular vote numbers but I suspect that Hillary beating Trump on popular vote is the claim they are making.

    Assuming the electoral college and popular vote lines up in all other cases, the Dems win 6 out of the last 8 contests.

    Edit: h/t @Alistair Id forgotten Gore won the popular vote
    The electoral college IS a gerrymander - the smaller Republican states get far more electors per head of population.
    No - a gerrymander is changing the boundaries of a voting district to favour one side or the other.

    The electoral college members are selected based on a formula that (I think) is the number of members of the House of Representatives plus the number of Senators. Because the number of Senators is always two regardless of size this favours the smaller states. But it’s not a gerrymander.
    Well, it is, but it was a gerrymander to get Slave States to sign up back at the founding. Many founding fathers wanted a straight popular vote for Presidency but slave states objected. Madison formulated the Electoral Collage and the 3/5ths abomination to get the Slave states on board.
    Nah - still missing the partisan element required from a gerrymander

    Your theory just makes it a sub optimal outcome from a negotiation
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Driver said:

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Please engage your brain (meant in the nicest possible way). You, of course, know the results below:

    1976-80: Dem x1
    1980-92: GOP x3
    92-00: Dem x2
    00-08: GOP x2
    08-16: Dem x 2
    16-20: GOP x1
    20-24: Dem x1

    Unless you start claiming the electoral college doesn’t count and therefore the GOP are gerrymandering the claim doesn’t stand.

    I haven’t checked the popular vote numbers but I suspect that Hillary beating Trump on popular vote is the claim they are making.

    Assuming the electoral college and popular vote lines up in all other cases, the Dems win 6 out of the last 8 contests.

    Edit: h/t @Alistair Id forgotten Gore won the popular vote
    The electoral college IS a gerrymander - the smaller Republican states get far more electors per head of population.
    Gerrymandering is specifically changing the boundaries of electoral districts to benefit the party doing the drawing.

    Whatever the Electoral College is, it's not that.
    People do tend to use it in a broader sense of a perceived institutional or procedural unfairness thesedays, but I think that can just confuse matters.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Nigelb said:

    Nostalgia trip.

    A vintage “Encyclopedia Britannica” Commercial from 1988
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/58920207

    Wrong link? 🫤
    Oops.
    https://twitter.com/fasc1nate/status/1586089226084524033

    :)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    Foxy said:

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

    I read that 8 out of the last 9 presidential elections (or perhaps 7 out of 8) were democratic majorities.

    It’s only gerrymandering that keeps the Republicans in power.
    Please engage your brain (meant in the nicest possible way). You, of course, know the results below:

    1976-80: Dem x1
    1980-92: GOP x3
    92-00: Dem x2
    00-08: GOP x2
    08-16: Dem x 2
    16-20: GOP x1
    20-24: Dem x1

    Unless you start claiming the electoral
    college doesn’t count and therefore the
    GOP are gerrymandering the claim doesn’t stand.

    I haven’t checked the popular vote numbers but I suspect that Hillary beating Trump on popular vote is the claim they are making.

    Assuming the electoral college and popular vote lines up in all other cases, the Dems win 6 out of the last 8 contests.

    Edit: h/t @Alistair Id forgotten Gore won the popular vote
    The electoral college IS a gerrymander - the smaller Republican states get far more electors per head of population.
    No - a gerrymander is changing the boundaries of a voting district to favour one side or the other.

    The electoral college members are selected based on a formula that (I think) is the number of members of the House of Representatives plus the number of Senators. Because the number of Senators is always two
    regardless of size this favours the
    smaller states. But it’s not a gerrymander.
    It's amazing it still needs to be explained re the Senate.

    Each state having two Senators was a deliberate move by the Founding Fathers to ensure that the smaller states had some sort of firewall against being dominated by the large populous states.

    So, yes, it's entirely designed to make sure it is NOT representative of population (the Senate not the EC votes).

    Sure. But most partisans who advance the popular vote argument are relying on the bulk of people not being aware of their constitutional history
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's going to be closer than we thought.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1586824630232391684

    Something seems wrong about using the approach to project but I can't quite put my finger on it.

    EDIT: got it, it's going to favour the smaller Bolsonaro heavy areas for the moment which he is doing well in. I think this projection is going to swing heavily.
    If it's swing based, surely that's less of a concern. For Bolsonaro to overtake Lula, he logically wins votes everywhere.
    I think it's Minas Gerais that highlights my issues

    B won it 58/42 in 2018. It's currently 50/50 which "logically" seems really bad for him.
    But at the start of the month he got 43.5% there so by patrickjfl that's really good for him.
This discussion has been closed.