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Defection watch – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    It is the internet, it is entertaining , in all his guises and he is a real character. Of course there have to be some rules and a sin bin but the last thing we need is for all the colourful characters to be banned and just leave the boring farts, OGH is not daft and the site needs a good mix of opinions , types , etc to reflect reality.
    No point in an echo chamber and tough for the "Outraged Turnbridge Wells / modern day Mary Whitehouse types". This site is very genteel compared to the general rubbish on the internet and controlled with just the necessary steel , in my humble opinion having had the ban hammer many times.
    I doubt you could have read a single post of mine if you think I'm after genteel.
    I just don't know what the rules are here.
    Just pretend you're trying to be MP for Morningside, or Kelvinside if you prefer. Though I don't know how you type SSE into a chat site.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    edited October 2022
    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    It’s not just him. Other posters have been deservedly banned here but come back with a new username. Their forum their rules but it’s bizarre that abusive posters can simply get a new handle and come back and carry on like they never left. As obnoxious and abusive as before.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405

    Seems I have missed another @leon banning.

    Was it the holiday snaps again or did we have AI back?

    The N word.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    It is the internet, it is entertaining , in all his guises and he is a real character. Of course there have to be some rules and a sin bin but the last thing we need is for all the colourful characters to be banned and just leave the boring farts, OGH is not daft and the site needs a good mix of opinions , types , etc to reflect reality.
    No point in an echo chamber and tough for the "Outraged Turnbridge Wells / modern day Mary Whitehouse types". This site is very genteel compared to the general rubbish on the internet and controlled with just the necessary steel , in my humble opinion having had the ban hammer many times.
    I doubt you could have read a single post of mine if you think I'm after genteel.
    I just don't know what the rules are here.
    I have read most of your posts indeed. They are not written in stone for sure , you post and take your chances.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Starry said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If you defect from the Conservatives to Labour questions have to be asked why you ever joined the Tories in the first place, let alone became a candidate. You could just about understand a Conservative MP defecting to the LDs or RefUK but going to Labour just means they are careerists with no ideology beyond what furthers their career.

    Same would apply to a Labour candidate defecting to the Conservatives

    Not necessarily. What about Rosie Duffield who has a major issue with Labour's gender politics, or Graham Stringer who is as close to the definition of a RedWall Tory as one could get?

    Let's talk about Lee Anderson. A lifelong Labour activist supporting Gloria Del Piero until his defection to the Tories in 2018 and victory in 2019, and now one of Boris Johnson's most loyal lapdogs (yourself not withstanding).
    Rose Duffield is a social democrat even if she does not always agree with Labour gender politics.

    Lee Anderson was always ideologically a Conservative, he joined Labour because it was the best way to get ahead in Ashfield. Once the Tories looked like they could win it under Boris he swiftly defected
    Personally, I can't see how someone can support parties all the way through, even though they range from the Europhile One Nations in one government to the Hard Brexiteers the next, the Clause 28-ers then become the ones to allow gay marriage etc etc. Same with Labour. Voting with a party,
    even though that party and it's core
    policies are radically different, seems crazy to me.
    As a floating voter, I vote for whoever seems best (at a tactical voting level). Quite obviously that's not the Tories now. It's a government, not a football team.
    Yes but you are a floating voter. If you are an ideological Conservative then you cannot consistently then join the Labour Party, same as if you are an ideological Socialist/Social Democrat you cannot then consistently join the Conservative Party
    Let's take my old MP, Peter Temple-Morris, Conservative MP for Leominster for decades and the son of a Conservative MP. He crossed the floor, first to Independent then to Labour. Blair made him a Life Peer and he finished his days writing papers for Labour under Corbyn's Leadership.

    By the way he was a thoroughly decent man in every way. My late father knew him quite well.

    In some ways also a careerist, he
    defected right at the nadir of the 1990s Tories and the heights of Blairism.

    Let us say had Corbyn been leader 20 years earlier not Blair he would almost certainly not have defected
    Indeed. Those who go on a political ‘journey’ just so happen to always move to more popular positions/parties
    TBF to Liz Truss she joined the Tories at their nadir in 1997. Okay, they were admittedly bigger than the LDs she left, but for a true careerist there was only one way to go in ‘97.
    100% the Tories - always buy at the bottom. Higher risk, higher return

    And may be she enjoyed Blair dominating the political landscape?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    It is inexplicable.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    I cannot think why it is tolerated.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Starry said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    I see the the new CEO of Twitter has repeated the Pelosi rumour on Twitter.

    Regulate that shit.

    Out of interest, what is the Pelosi rumour? That the attack on her husband was staged I take it.
    American politics - and media - are in such a state it is possible to believe any of the many versions of this story. From left or right. And it is impossible to know which is correct

    That’s a grave place to be
    Maybe a moment of reflection from you before posting arch "more to this than meets the eye" comments?
    Come on it's Leon, he's going to repost any old far right transparently false tweets so long as they fit with his ugly prejudices.
    The reflex naivety on here is absurd

    A surprising level of self-awareness expressed in that post.
    The position of the PB left seems to be: the American left never lies, the FBI never lies, social media never lies (except now it does because Elon has bought Twitter)

    This despite now-accepted stories like this:


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62688532

    The more sophisticated analysis is that truth in American politics is increasingly hard to secure on all sides. And you can accept this even as you acknowledge that Trump really is a madman, january 6 really was an attempted coup, etc

    There are, I think, two stories where that is somewhat true:

    One is the Hunter Biden story.

    Two is (to a lesser extent) the lab leak theory.

    But I'm struggling with any others.

    And in the former case, it was a case of junkie doing stupid thing. In the latter case, the 'conspiracy' consisted of people being sceptical of something.

    It's rather a leap from that to the Pelosis hiring an actor to pretend for months to be MAGA supporting, QAnon believer, and then for him to break into the Pelosi household and attack Mr Pelosi with a hammer.

    Said actor then being willing to go to jail for a couple of years is also pretty impressive.

    From what I have read around the story, the man concerned is a drug addict and a sometime nudist, living a very ramshackle and somewhat sad and disjointed life. This seems like a sad story of crime and drug addiction in San Francisco to me, and the attempt to make it into a MAGA assassination attempt seems premature if not positively specious. You don't have to believe the theory that he was the man's gay lover to see that.
    ...who just happens to write a blog containing a load of references to MAGA and QAnon.
    Who also happens to attend nude protests and have an extremely chequered relationship history, lives in a squat/bus/homeless commune, and is addicted to psychadellic drugs. Not the archetypal Trumpian, just seems drug-addled and mental.
    Psychedelic, and there are no psychedelic drugs which are addictive.
    I suspect he means “habitual user” rather than physically addicted
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Farooq said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    Surely no way back after dropping the Hard R. Unless Dark Elon buys the site.
    Whats the hard R?
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard R
    Oh dear
    Yeah, still, "he bought the drinks" eh
    He did yes and i predict he will be back within a week despite him using the N word


    As I say its not up to us we are mere guests and I say that as someone who has been attacked brutally by Sean on a couple of occasions
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Taz said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    It’s not just him. Other posters have been deservedly banned here but come back with a new username. Their forum their rules but it’s bizarre that abusive posters can simply get a new handle and come back and carry on like they never left. As obnoxious and abusive as before.
    Rather like bankruptcy, though. If it's good enough for double glazing salesmen, it's good enough for PB folk who are mostly on a much higher moral plane. Presumably.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If you defect from the Conservatives to Labour questions have to be asked why you ever joined the Tories in the first place, let alone became a candidate. You could just about understand a Conservative MP defecting to the LDs or RefUK but going to Labour just means they are careerists with no ideology beyond what furthers their career.

    Same would apply to a Labour candidate defecting to the Conservatives

    Not necessarily. What about Rosie Duffield who has a major issue with Labour's gender politics, or Graham Stringer who is as close to the definition of a RedWall Tory as one could get?

    Let's talk about Lee Anderson. A lifelong Labour activist supporting Gloria Del Piero until his defection to the Tories in 2018 and victory in 2019, and now one of Boris Johnson's most loyal lapdogs (yourself not withstanding).
    Rose Duffield is a social democrat even if she does not always agree with Labour gender politics.

    Lee Anderson was always ideologically a Conservative, he joined Labour because it was the best way to get ahead in Ashfield. Once the Tories looked like they could win it under Boris he swiftly defected
    I look forward to Lee's return journey in that case.
    Lee Anderson won't be returning, he's gone full on right-wing with the zeal of a convert.

    Just read his wiki.
    Afternoon all.

    "Lee Anderson always ideologically a Conservative" doesn't quite ring true, given his background in pretty much the poorest area of a down-at-heel mining village. I can't say what turned him, if anything - but I might punt at his being 17-18 at college in 1984 when Scargill sent his hundreds of flying pickets into Nottinghamshire after a democratic vote was denied being part responsible for turning him to the more moderate wing of Labour - say the EETPU tradition from the late 80s/90s.

    I tend not to listen to wiki entries for hate figures for the soft left such as Anderson - they tend to be lists of selected -ve points with a lot of stuff left out. There's plenty missing from that one. Might take a look at that to see if I can fix some details, however in that kind of piece Wiki normally migrates back to partisan content.
    His voting recorded gives an unbiased indication of his political views.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25894/lee_anderson/ashfield/votes

    Such data isn’t exhaustive, but it’s verifiable fact.
    I'd question whether Parliamentary votes are a strong indicator of personal views (and these are low numbers of votes) due to party lines and whipping, and auto-voting against motions from the opposite party from both sides. Though some of those are quite interesting (and one or two not what I would expect tbh):

    >Consistently voted for raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices
    >Voted a mixture of for and against a reduction in spending on welfare benefits
    >Consistently voted against reducing the rate of corporation tax
    >Almost always voted against transferring more powers to the Senedd/Welsh Parliamen
    >Consistently voted against a right to remain for EU nationals already in living in the UK
    >Generally voted against strengthening the Military Covenant
    >Generally voted against more EU integration
    >Consistently voted against higher taxes on bank
    >Almost always voted for stronger enforcement of immigration rules
    >Consistently voted for a stricter asylum system
    >Consistently voted against raising the threshold at which people start to pay income tax

    The Military Covenant one was a surprise to me - its a biggish military area.
    Clearly they have to be read in the context of party lines, and the extent or otherwise of whipping on particular votes, but they are are still a pretty decent way of getting an idea of where MPs you know nothing about sit on the spectrum.
    I tend to discount the records a little - as some of it is elephant traps, so we get "X voted against supporting Y, so s/he is a $%^%^&**" political adverts, when actually X was voting against Y as a govt / opposition motion on a govt / opposition day.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    malcolmg said:

    Bit turnipy on here tonight

    We could do with a Russian troll to tease. That seems to bring out the best in people.
    We could use one of the cabbages on here as the Russian troll, plenty of choice.
    Is cabbage higher or lower than turnip on the rutabaga scale?

    I would posit they should be equivalently ranked

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    malcolmg said:

    Bit turnipy on here tonight

    We could do with a Russian troll to tease. That seems to bring out the best in people.
    We could use one of the cabbages on here as the Russian troll, plenty of choice.
    Is cabbage higher or lower than turnip on the rutabaga scale?

    I would posit they should be equivalently ranked

    Cabbage definitely higher up. It grows on top. Look at any allotment. Rutabaga is sort of in between.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    It is the internet, it is entertaining , in all his guises and he is a real character. Of course there have to be some rules and a sin bin but the last thing we need is for all the colourful characters to be banned and just leave the boring farts, OGH is not daft and the site needs a good mix of opinions , types , etc to reflect reality.
    No point in an echo chamber and tough for the "Outraged Turnbridge Wells / modern day Mary Whitehouse types". This site is very genteel compared to the general rubbish on the internet and controlled with just the necessary steel , in my humble opinion having had the ban hammer many times.
    @Leon is a gifted troll. He’s having fun and pushing the edges of the acceptable. Sometimes he transgresses and spends time in the sin bin.

    But overall he helps keep the discourse on here from becoming too worthy

  • May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173

    malcolmg said:

    Bit turnipy on here tonight

    We could do with a Russian troll to tease. That seems to bring out the best in people.
    We could use one of the cabbages on here as the Russian troll, plenty of choice.
    Is cabbage higher or lower than turnip on the rutabaga scale?

    I would posit they should be equivalently ranked

    Isn't lettuce the current political vegetable?

    Wilted Artisan Borsch will go down a storm in Islington.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bit turnipy on here tonight

    We could do with a Russian troll to tease. That seems to bring out the best in people.
    We could use one of the cabbages on here as the Russian troll, plenty of choice.
    Is cabbage higher or lower than turnip on the rutabaga scale?

    I would posit they should be equivalently ranked

    Cabbage definitely higher up. It grows on top. Look at any allotment. Rutabaga is sort of in between.
    So when Cabbage mated with Turnip to produce Rutabaga she was dallying on the other side of the tracks?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    malcolmg said:

    Bit turnipy on here tonight

    We could do with a Russian troll to tease. That seems to bring out the best in people.
    We could use one of the cabbages on here as the Russian troll, plenty of choice.
    Is cabbage higher or lower than turnip on the rutabaga scale?

    I would posit they should be equivalently ranked

    Both well above lettuce?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    I’m surprised that the water behind a dyke was hot…
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Farooq said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    Surely no way back after dropping the Hard R. Unless Dark Elon buys the site.
    Whats the hard R?
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard R
    Oh dear
    Yeah, still, "he bought the drinks" eh
    He did yes and i predict he will be back within a week despite him using the N word


    As I say its not up to us we are mere guests and I say that as someone who has been attacked brutally by Sean on a couple of occasions
    With Sean he sees it all as some huge post-modernist joke. The post he got banned for was a reply to me suggesting his Hitler themed screenshots the other month we’re not a wind up. For what it’s worth, they probably were, but his tiresome layering of irony and “satire” on ostensible reality means we’re all just part of his personal joke. So I decided to accept them as real. And it was, in a double dose of irony, his “ironic” use of the vilest word that got him banned.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited October 2022

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    malcolmg said:

    Bit turnipy on here tonight

    We could do with a Russian troll to tease. That seems to bring out the best in people.
    We could use one of the cabbages on here as the Russian troll, plenty of choice.
    Is cabbage higher or lower than turnip on the rutabaga scale?

    I would posit they should be equivalently ranked

    rhapophobia?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    I’m surprised that the water behind a dyke was hot…
    Or indeed water in a dyke. Very context dependent word.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited October 2022
    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    And in geological terms, and quite separatel Scotland and NE farming.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    Leon said:

    Ahahahaha

    “I also think that your travel photos are taken of other people's IG accounts”.

    Banned again? So 24 hours without holiday snaps from exotic shores, oh joy!
    If you are missing them, there’s a great account on twitter you can follow…

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox
    Some of those photos look strangely familiar. Was @Leon just a plagiarist?
    I see by astonishing coincidence Mr Thomas is in Iceland and on a tour with a guide claiming a polar bear ate his ancestor. What are the odds of that?
  • MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    It is the internet, it is entertaining , in all his guises and he is a real character. Of course there have to be some rules and a sin bin but the last thing we need is for all the colourful characters to be banned and just leave the boring farts, OGH is not daft and the site needs a good mix of opinions , types , etc to reflect reality.
    No point in an echo chamber and tough for the "Outraged Turnbridge Wells / modern day Mary Whitehouse types". This site is very genteel compared to the general rubbish on the internet and controlled with just the necessary steel , in my humble opinion having had the ban hammer many times.
    @Leon is a gifted troll. He’s having fun and pushing the edges of the acceptable. Sometimes he transgresses and spends time in the sin bin.

    But overall he helps keep the discourse on here from becoming too worthy

    He is often witty and interesting.

    Unfortunately, deep down, there is always a nasty little racist trying to get out.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Ahahahaha

    “I also think that your travel photos are taken of other people's IG accounts”.

    Banned again? So 24 hours without holiday snaps from exotic shores, oh joy!
    If you are missing them, there’s a great account on twitter you can follow…

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox
    Some of those photos look strangely familiar. Was @Leon just a plagiarist?
    I see by astonishing coincidence Mr Thomas is in Iceland and on a tour with a guide claiming a polar bear ate his ancestor. What are the odds of that?
    Some of this is like being sat in a tube carriage when some guy's having a J Arthur in public.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    malcolmg said:

    Bit turnipy on here tonight

    We could do with a Russian troll to tease. That seems to bring out the best in people.
    We could use one of the cabbages on here as the Russian troll, plenty of choice.
    Is cabbage higher or lower than turnip on the rutabaga scale?

    I would posit they should be equivalently ranked

    rhapophobia?
    That’s a dirty move. Such a rubbish thing to suggest.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited October 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Starry said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If you defect from the Conservatives to Labour questions have to be asked why you ever joined the Tories in the first place, let alone became a candidate. You could just about understand a Conservative MP defecting to the LDs or RefUK but going to Labour just means they are careerists with no ideology beyond what furthers their career.

    Same would apply to a Labour candidate defecting to the Conservatives

    Not necessarily. What about Rosie Duffield who has a major issue with Labour's gender politics, or Graham Stringer who is as close to the definition of a RedWall Tory as one could get?

    Let's talk about Lee Anderson. A lifelong Labour activist supporting Gloria Del Piero until his defection to the Tories in 2018 and victory in 2019, and now one of Boris Johnson's most loyal lapdogs (yourself not withstanding).
    Rose Duffield is a social democrat even if she does not always agree with Labour gender politics.

    Lee Anderson was always ideologically a Conservative, he joined Labour because it was the best way to get ahead in Ashfield. Once the Tories looked like they could win it under Boris he swiftly defected
    Personally, I can't see how someone can support parties all the way through, even though they range from the Europhile One Nations in one government to the Hard Brexiteers the next, the Clause 28-ers then become the ones to allow gay marriage etc etc. Same with Labour. Voting with a party,
    even though that party and it's core
    policies are radically different, seems crazy to me.
    As a floating voter, I vote for whoever seems best (at a tactical voting level). Quite obviously that's not the Tories now. It's a government, not a football team.
    Yes but you are a floating voter. If you are an ideological Conservative then you cannot consistently then join the Labour Party, same as if you are an ideological Socialist/Social Democrat you cannot then consistently join the Conservative Party
    Let's take my old MP, Peter Temple-Morris, Conservative MP for Leominster for decades and the son of a Conservative MP. He crossed the floor, first to Independent then to Labour. Blair made him a Life Peer and he finished his days writing papers for Labour under Corbyn's Leadership.

    By the way he was a thoroughly decent man in every way. My late father knew him quite well.

    In some ways also a careerist, he
    defected right at the nadir of the 1990s Tories and the heights of Blairism.

    Let us say had Corbyn been leader 20 years earlier not Blair he would almost certainly not have defected
    Indeed. Those who go on a political ‘journey’ just so happen to always move to more popular positions/parties
    TBF to Liz Truss she joined the Tories at their nadir in 1997. Okay, they were admittedly bigger than the LDs she left, but for a true careerist there was only one way to go in ‘97.
    Blair was first elected on Foot's "longest suicide note in history" 1983. Just sayin'.
    Cameron was also first elected in 2001 in Blair's landslide year, as was Boris.

    In some respects better to get elected in opposition when your party is at its lowest and the only way is up if you want to be a future PM and long term PM.

    Michael Howard by contrast was elected in the Thatcher landslide of 1983 and Hague in 1989 when the Tories were only just over halfway through their period in office and both ended up defeated Leaders of the Opposition when the pendulum swung the other way. Same with Ed Miliband, elected in 2005 when Blair was re elected. Starmer was elected in 2015 when Cameron won his majority by contrast
    Cameron and Johnson weren't exactly.elected against the run of play. Weren't they Witney and Henley respectively? Donkeys and blue rosettes, and all that....
    Neither was Blair in Sedgefield (at least until 2019). The ideal therefore to become a long serving PM is to win a safe seat in a year your party is heavily defeated nationally, so your time comes when the pendulum turns
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Ahahahaha

    “I also think that your travel photos are taken of other people's IG accounts”.

    Banned again? So 24 hours without holiday snaps from exotic shores, oh joy!
    If you are missing them, there’s a great account on twitter you can follow…

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox
    Some of those photos look strangely familiar. Was @Leon just a plagiarist?
    I see by astonishing coincidence Mr Thomas is in Iceland and on a tour with a guide claiming a polar bear ate his ancestor. What are the odds of that?
    What odds will you give me? This is a betting site after all
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Farooq said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    Surely no way back after dropping the Hard R. Unless Dark Elon buys the site.
    Whats the hard R?
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard R
    Oh dear
    Yeah, still, "he bought the drinks" eh
    He did yes and i predict he will be back within a week despite him using the N word


    As I say its not up to us we are mere guests and I say that as someone who has been attacked brutally by Sean on a couple of occasions
    Used to be you were a nobody if you had not been insulted by him. I was lucky enough to have a good few of them and enjoyed the banter in return. Far better to ban the boring knobs that whine all the time.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    I think the nearest I came to a ban was when I revealed the Strictly Spoiler

    Tonights evictee is





    Not going to be revealed by me
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    If Leon is considered a gifted troll then internet culture and the fine art of trolling has degraded to a point where it cannot be saved.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    And in geological terms, and quite separatel Scotland and NE farming.
    Used in Ayrshire as well , I think in relation to farming.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    It is the internet, it is entertaining , in all his guises and he is a real character. Of course there have to be some rules and a sin bin but the last thing we need is for all the colourful characters to be banned and just leave the boring farts, OGH is not daft and the site needs a good mix of opinions , types , etc to reflect reality.
    No point in an echo chamber and tough for the "Outraged Turnbridge Wells / modern day Mary Whitehouse types". This site is very genteel compared to the general rubbish on the internet and controlled with just the necessary steel , in my humble opinion having had the ban hammer many times.
    @Leon is a gifted troll. He’s having fun and pushing the edges of the acceptable. Sometimes he transgresses and spends time in the sin bin.

    But overall he helps keep the discourse on here from becoming too worthy

    He is often witty and interesting.

    Unfortunately, deep down, there is always a nasty little racist trying to get out.
    Hence - on balance - I think that time outs are still an acceptable approach - think of it as disciplining a toddler
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
    You need to decide whether it is tactical outrage / virtue signalling, or whether someone is genuinely upset. IMO.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Ahahahaha

    “I also think that your travel photos are taken of other people's IG accounts”.

    Banned again? So 24 hours without holiday snaps from exotic shores, oh joy!
    If you are missing them, there’s a great account on twitter you can follow…

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox
    Some of those photos look strangely familiar. Was @Leon just a plagiarist?
    I see by astonishing coincidence Mr Thomas is in Iceland and on a tour with a guide claiming a polar bear ate his ancestor. What are the odds of that?
    Er... 1.00?
  • malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    It is the internet, it is entertaining , in all his guises and he is a real character. Of course there have to be some rules and a sin bin but the last thing we need is for all the colourful characters to be banned and just leave the boring farts, OGH is not daft and the site needs a good mix of opinions , types , etc to reflect reality.
    No point in an echo chamber and tough for the "Outraged Turnbridge Wells / modern day Mary Whitehouse types". This site is very genteel compared to the general rubbish on the internet and controlled with just the necessary steel , in my humble opinion having had the ban hammer many times.
    @Leon is a gifted troll. He’s having fun and pushing the edges of the acceptable. Sometimes he transgresses and spends time in the sin bin.

    But overall he helps keep the discourse on here from becoming too worthy

    He is often witty and interesting.

    Unfortunately, deep down, there is always a nasty little racist trying to get out.
    It's perfectly fine to be a provocative gadfly. Plenty of hacks make a good living from it.

    What isn't OK is to use the same voice for utterances that are meant to be taken seriously.

    Otherwise everyone gets confused and you end up with government by postmodern joke.

    As we have seen.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Alistair said:

    If Leon is considered a gifted troll then internet culture and the fine art of trolling has degraded to a point where it cannot be saved.

    He’s better than the Russians!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    I’m surprised that the water behind a dyke was hot…
    I blame global warming...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Ahahahaha

    “I also think that your travel photos are taken of other people's IG accounts”.

    Banned again? So 24 hours without holiday snaps from exotic shores, oh joy!
    If you are missing them, there’s a great account on twitter you can follow…

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox
    Some of those photos look strangely familiar. Was @Leon just a plagiarist?
    I see by astonishing coincidence Mr Thomas is in Iceland and on a tour with a guide claiming a polar bear ate his ancestor. What are the odds of that?
    Er... 1.00?
    Do you suppose he took a bottle of calvados?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    We always say melted like snaw aff a dyke , you must have been in wokeshire among quinoa munching snowflakes.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
    You need to decide whether it is tactical outrage / virtue signalling, or whether someone is genuinely upset. IMO.
    I’d say - in all seriousness - that “dyke” is equivalent to “faggot”. A word that used to be acceptable and merely descriptive but is now seen as hostile.

  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Lula has drifted to 1.47 at Betfair.

    First polls close 62 minutes from now. Last ones 3 hours later.

    Smarkets have a market on whether Lula will get under or over 52.5%. (They phrase it for Bolsonaro.) Current price 2.44 for Lula beating that figure.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    It is the internet, it is entertaining , in all his guises and he is a real character. Of course there have to be some rules and a sin bin but the last thing we need is for all the colourful characters to be banned and just leave the boring farts, OGH is not daft and the site needs a good mix of opinions , types , etc to reflect reality.
    No point in an echo chamber and tough for the "Outraged Turnbridge Wells / modern day Mary Whitehouse types". This site is very genteel compared to the general rubbish on the internet and controlled with just the necessary steel , in my humble opinion having had the ban hammer many times.
    @Leon is a gifted troll. He’s having fun and pushing the edges of the acceptable. Sometimes he transgresses and spends time in the sin bin.

    But overall he helps keep the discourse on here from becoming too worthy

    He is often witty and interesting.

    Unfortunately, deep down, there is always a nasty little racist trying to get out.
    It's perfectly fine to be a provocative gadfly. Plenty of hacks make a good living from it.

    What isn't OK is to use the same voice for utterances that are meant to be taken seriously.

    Otherwise everyone gets confused and you end up with government by postmodern joke.

    As we have seen.
    Talking aboiut postmodern joke, have you seen this?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/30/liz-truss-rider-out-of-the-blue-book

    "When she was foreign secretary, orders were sent to embassies around the world of what Truss would expect to be served [...] Truss would expect double espressos served in a flat-white-sized takeaway cup, and the coffee had to be sourced from independent stores, a serialisation of the book printed in the Sunday Times says. Truss placed a ban on big-brand coffee except when she was in the UK, when she would accept coffee from Pret a Manger."
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
    You need to decide whether it is tactical outrage / virtue signalling, or whether someone is genuinely upset. IMO.
    I was threatened with a ban were I to use the word again.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
    You need to decide whether it is tactical outrage / virtue signalling, or whether someone is genuinely upset. IMO.
    I was threatened with a ban were I to use the word again.
    The pub or PB?
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
    You need to decide whether it is tactical outrage / virtue signalling, or whether someone is genuinely upset. IMO.
    I’d say - in all seriousness - that “dyke” is equivalent to “faggot”. A word that used to be acceptable and merely descriptive but is now seen as hostile.
    Don't tell Brixton Dykes on the Rampage. Or the Rebel Dykes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
    You need to decide whether it is tactical outrage / virtue signalling, or whether someone is genuinely upset. IMO.
    I’d say - in all seriousness - that “dyke” is equivalent to “faggot”. A word that used to be acceptable and merely descriptive but is now seen as hostile.

    Occasionally, like "queer" is can be repossessed as a word.

    In such circumstances generally only by people describing themselves, of course.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    Channel 4 said 3 hours from now.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited October 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2022

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction . Above all though he revels in life and does not find the worthy accepted view of how life should be lived or expressed especially interesting or correct
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
    You need to decide whether it is tactical outrage / virtue signalling, or whether someone is genuinely upset. IMO.
    I’d say - in all seriousness - that “dyke” is equivalent to “faggot”. A word that used to be acceptable and merely descriptive but is now seen as hostile.

    Occasionally, like "queer" is can be repossessed as a word.

    In such circumstances generally only by people describing themselves, of course.
    Sure and @DJ41 posted some examples but I don’t think it’s there yet
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
    You need to decide whether it is tactical outrage / virtue signalling, or whether someone is genuinely upset. IMO.
    I’d say - in all seriousness - that “dyke” is equivalent to “faggot”. A word that used to be acceptable and merely descriptive but is now seen as hostile.

    Also in all seriousness, I'd say that dyke has been reappropriated, whilst faggot has not.

    I'd be quite at ease using it in a verbatim third party quote, but not in general usage myself. But that's based more on my view that tying yourself up in knots to avoid saying an offensive word when it is necessary to talk about it is absurd - as when eg the Today Programme has a fit of PC and comes up with a 5 minute story about an offensive quote that no one knows what it is, but they won't repeat it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
    But The Messiah is Bolosonaro's middle name
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    I reckon "Leon" needs PB more than PB needs Leon.
  • Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    well at the risk of going into semantics I would define the opposite of fascism as being not conforming to powerful leadership (usually state) and being a free thinker. I think Leon's instinct is this
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
    ForgottenGenius
    @ExStrategist
    The sheer narcissism of Jeremy Corbyn, one of the most unpopular politicians among working class voters in history believing he would be an asset to Lula is remarkable.
    Esp given his role as a useful idiot for the regime which dispersed 5m Venezuelan refugees around S.America.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    More interested in the idea he has brains. He certainly hides it well!
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 888
    edited October 2022
    Brazil

    Evening all, polls close 8pm UK, 5pm Brasilia

    https://resultados.tse.jus.br/oficial/app/index.html#/eleicao/resultados

    https://g1.globo.com/politica/eleicoes/2022/apuracao/presidente.ghtml

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq2B49ltg8M

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlNjH_NvBVY

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.180434883

    Gut feel is Lula with 51-52% but wouldn't be totally amazed if Bolsonaro pulls it off.

    Note that when Rousseff won with 51.4% in 2014, she was behind for the first 80%+ of the count.

    Denmark and Israel vote on Tuesday.

    Thanks,

    DC
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2022

    I reckon "Leon" needs PB more than PB needs Leon.

    Obviously either can live perfectly well without either but he does brighten the place up a bit from bein a bit of a nerdy groupthink worthy group who debate at the margins . He is also brave enough to post when we all know who he is in real life -
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    well at the risk of going into semantics I would define the opposite of fascism as being not conforming to powerful leadership (usually state) and being a free thinker. I think Leon's instinct is this
    Leon absolutely adores “powerful” leadership; it is one of his core topics alongside what 3 words, UFOs, and teenage sex.

    I agree he is a free thinker, but that’s not the get of jail free card you think it is.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I was not applying the label to anyone myself - but reporting remarks made by others.
    You need to decide whether it is tactical outrage / virtue signalling, or whether someone is genuinely upset. IMO.
    I’d say - in all seriousness - that “dyke” is equivalent to “faggot”. A word that used to be acceptable and merely descriptive but is now seen as hostile.

    Depends on how used and if person you are talking to is a woke halfwit. I would use it in any rural setting for any stone structure enclosing land. Not as appropriate to use in a pub in a city in relation to a person however.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    I reckon "Leon" needs PB more than PB needs Leon.

    I am surprised he has time for it , he leads a busy life.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited October 2022

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    well at the risk of going into semantics I would define the opposite of fascism as being not conforming to powerful leadership (usually state) and being a free thinker. I think Leon's instinct is this
    Nah, he is not really strong on free-thinkers who disagree with him, e.g. 'remainers, 'wokists', alien-sceptics (aka sane people), anyone-with-an-open-mind-about-the-source-of-covid, etc., etc.

    Putin though, now there is a 'free thinker' @Leon can get behind.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405

    I reckon "Leon" needs PB more than PB needs Leon.

    Yup, there’s a few here who live their lives through this forum. I guess that’s a good thing as it gives them some social interaction. Most of us dip in and out and have real world relations.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2022
    Alistair said:

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction . Above all though he revels in life and does not find the worthy accepted view of how life should be lived or expressed especially interesting or correct
    Not a fascist but reads them extensively on social media, repeatedly posts about how he finds their arguments "interesting" and "extremely persuasive" and reguritates their propaganda verbatim on PB.
    Isnt that the argument to ban extremist views , that they can be persuasive to a lot of people because they are "interesting " (in the sense its an alternative to the "worthy" view). I think Leon is not afraid to think about this and provoke reaction on here (PB does have a very irritating collective view of itself as being "right") . Leon notices this and attacks it - he is not a fascist in any way by his actions or deeds but not afraid to challenge the orthodoxy (hence actually being the opposite of a fascist which by definition is a dictator ship based on state power )
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    edited October 2022
    Ishmael_Z said:

    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
    ForgottenGenius
    @ExStrategist
    The sheer narcissism of Jeremy Corbyn, one of the most unpopular politicians among working class voters in history believing he would be an asset to Lula is remarkable.
    Esp given his role as a useful idiot for the regime which dispersed 5m Venezuelan refugees around S.America.
    Tim is obssessed with Corbyn

    I believe Corbyns lawyers contacted him about one post about 6 months ago re Corbyn and AS which disappeared
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I have a killer joke to which the punchline is "Dick Van Dyke" but it does not get aired these days.

    People getting offended over slurs in reported speech are being prissy, with the possible exception of the n-word. Of course, we would need the full context to judge...
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    malcolmg said:

    kamski said:

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    More interested in the idea he has brains. He certainly hides it well!
    Hmm if you have read his posts over the years it is very obvious that he is very intelligent indeed.
    Mostly seen posts where he blindly repeats stuff that he has clearly neither checked (even rudimentarily), nor understood.
    Plus some abuse. I admit his abuse is occasionally more original than your repetitive stuff, but that's a very low bar.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    He's slowly being radicalised by Way-Rightwing Twitter. It was kind of sad knowing exactly what topic he would be ranting about in 2 weeks time after it first emerges from the usual suspects on Twitter.

    He's got a social media bubble feeding him exactly what he wants to hear and pulling him in tighter and tighter. A year ago he wouldn't have posted the gay sex cocaine orgy gone wrong Pelosi rumours but now he's so deep in that's just a normal thing for him to see on his feed.

    The irony of him being described as a free thinker as he hewed ever and ever closer to full on Alt-Right Twitter is not lost on me.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    DougSeal said:

    Leon's banned. Oh well. Stunningly ironic way to go.

    Leon is often banned but seems to operate under different rules to everyone else in that he will be allowed back again in 48 hours or reappears under another name and lies about it. Does anyone believe that Leon is not Sean T (and Byronic, LadyGaga. Eadric etc etc)?

    I shall enjoy the hiatus but will be off the moment he materialises again
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Ishmael_Z said:

    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
    ForgottenGenius
    @ExStrategist
    The sheer narcissism of Jeremy Corbyn, one of the most unpopular politicians among working class voters in history believing he would be an asset to Lula is remarkable.
    Esp given his role as a useful idiot for the regime which dispersed 5m Venezuelan refugees around S.America.
    Lula drifting like a barge

    Out to 1.58 Bols in from 3 to 2.76
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    Surely no way back after dropping the Hard R. Unless Dark Elon buys the site.
    Whats the hard R?
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard R
    Oh dear
    Yeah, still, "he bought the drinks" eh
    He did yes and i predict he will be back within a week despite him using the N word


    As I say its not up to us we are mere guests and I say that as someone who has been attacked brutally by Sean on a couple of occasions
    With Sean he sees it all as some huge post-modernist joke. The post he got banned for was a reply to me suggesting his Hitler themed screenshots the other month we’re not a wind up. For what it’s worth, they probably were, but his tiresome layering of irony and “satire” on ostensible reality means we’re all just part of his personal joke. So I decided to accept them as real. And it was, in a double dose of irony, his “ironic” use of the vilest word that got him banned.

    At least it's easy to find out where he lives - credulous.offensive.twat surely zeroes in on his front door?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I have a killer joke to which the punchline is "Dick Van Dyke" but it does not get aired these days.

    People getting offended over slurs in reported speech are being prissy, with the possible exception of the n-word. Of course, we would need the full context to judge...
    I grew up (in the 60s and 70s) believing that all Irish people were stupid, Jews were miserly, etc. etc.

    That is the danger of slurs and lazy stereotypes being repeated unchallenged.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    Evening all :)

    The dark evenings are closin' in and the pre-Halloween excitement that is three kids on bikes knocking on people's doors.

    Back to important matters and the latest Danish opinion poll ahead of Tuesday's poll is from Epinion and they've split the vote by gender and the results of interest but not surprise:

    Among men the centre-left parties poll 36.3% and the centre-right bloc 48.8% with the Moderates on 9%

    Among women the centre-left parties poll 53.6% and the centre-right parties 37.5% with the Moderates on 7.7%

    We've seen it in many other countries and under all electoral systems - men "tend" to vote for centre-right parties and women "tend" to vote centre-left. It's not a universal truth and I suspect someone will quickly find an exception but this is as obvious as it gets.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    kamski said:

    malcolmg said:

    kamski said:

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    More interested in the idea he has brains. He certainly hides it well!
    Hmm if you have read his posts over the years it is very obvious that he is very intelligent indeed.
    Mostly seen posts where he blindly repeats stuff that he has clearly neither checked (even rudimentarily), nor understood.
    Plus some abuse. I admit his abuse is occasionally more original than your repetitive stuff, but that's a very low bar.
    F off you boring nasty arsehole. It is totally boring judgemental clowns like you the site could do without
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Off to Cinema shortly to see Trick R Treat which i believe is an old film but never seen it.

    Its only 84 mins so should be home well before we know how its going in Brazil
  • Off to Cinema shortly to see Trick R Treat which i believe is an old film but never seen it.

    Its only 84 mins so should be home well before we know how its going in Brazil

    just been out to see Triangle of Sadness - which was very good and darkly funny and ironic
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    May I ask how offensive is use of the 'Dyke' word? A few months ago I got into hot water in a pub when I used the word in the context of Indirect - ie Reported -Speech. I was taken aback by the reaction.

    It's allowed in East Anglia and the Netherlands.

    I do have a favourite dyke anecdote, which I had better keep to myself if the ban hammer is out and about.
    I have a killer joke to which the punchline is "Dick Van Dyke" but it does not get aired these days.

    People getting offended over slurs in reported speech are being prissy, with the possible exception of the n-word. Of course, we would need the full context to judge...
    I grew up (in the 60s and 70s) believing that all Irish people were stupid, Jews were miserly, etc. etc.

    That is the danger of slurs and lazy stereotypes being repeated unchallenged.
    It is both better and worse in our new information age. On the one hand, exposure to a wide variety of views should prevent some of those sterotypes taking hold; on the other, it is easy to become quickly radicalised online.
  • Benjamin Fogel
    @BenjaminFogel
    I don't want to sound alarmist, but there is a serious attempt at a coup happening in the open right now in Brazil. The Federal Traffic Police along with state police and elements of the army are trying to suppress the vote across the country.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Off to Cinema shortly to see Trick R Treat which i believe is an old film but never seen it.

    Its only 84 mins so should be home well before we know how its going in Brazil

    just been out to see Triangle of Sadness - which was very good and darkly funny and ironic
    Right i might watch that tomorrow then but i notice its at the other end of the film times scale at 150 mins and I will have to go to Sheffield to see it.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2022

    Off to Cinema shortly to see Trick R Treat which i believe is an old film but never seen it.

    Its only 84 mins so should be home well before we know how its going in Brazil

    just been out to see Triangle of Sadness - which was very good and darkly funny and ironic
    Right i might watch that tomorrow then but i notice its at the other end of the film times scale at 150 mins and I will have to go to Sheffield to see it.
    well worth it especially if you like power politics (with a small p)- a sort of modern animal farm (but with humans)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Benjamin Fogel
    @BenjaminFogel
    I don't want to sound alarmist, but there is a serious attempt at a coup happening in the open right now in Brazil. The Federal Traffic Police along with state police and elements of the army are trying to suppress the vote across the country.

    FFS
  • Eduardo Rodrigo
    @Eduardo48824458
    Replying to
    @BenjaminFogel
    The operations are all focused on places on wich Lula wins! There are much more people affected than these 3 million. Many will not take the risk to leave their homes to be locked up on traffic!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    A Bolsanaro win will lead to environmental devastation in the Amazon.

    This election is bloody important.

    Most important election this year
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    kamski said:

    malcolmg said:

    kamski said:

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    More interested in the idea he has brains. He certainly hides it well!
    Hmm if you have read his posts over the years it is very obvious that he is very intelligent indeed.
    Mostly seen posts where he blindly repeats stuff that he has clearly neither checked (even rudimentarily), nor understood.
    Plus some abuse. I admit his abuse is occasionally more original than your repetitive stuff, but that's a very low bar.
    Whatever else he is, he is clearly one very bright cookie. What a striking coincidence that you should save up your allegation of him not understanding things, for one of the still infrequent gaps where you have no need to fear him taking you up on it. What are the odds?


  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    well at the risk of going into semantics I would define the opposite of fascism as being not conforming to powerful leadership (usually state) and being a free thinker. I think Leon's instinct is this
    Leon absolutely adores “powerful” leadership; it is one of his core topics alongside what 3 words, UFOs, and teenage sex.

    I agree he is a free thinker, but that’s not the get of jail free card you think it is.
    If he was a genuine "free-thinker" his thoughts wouldn't always lead him in the same direction.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    The world seems to be an increasingly dark place. And I don’t mean that the clocks have gone back.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Ishmael_Z said:

    kamski said:

    malcolmg said:

    kamski said:

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    More interested in the idea he has brains. He certainly hides it well!
    Hmm if you have read his posts over the years it is very obvious that he is very intelligent indeed.
    Mostly seen posts where he blindly repeats stuff that he has clearly neither checked (even rudimentarily), nor understood.
    Plus some abuse. I admit his abuse is occasionally more original than your repetitive stuff, but that's a very low bar.
    Whatever else he is, he is clearly one very bright cookie. What a striking coincidence that you should save up your allegation of him not understanding things, for one of the still infrequent gaps where you have no need to fear him taking you up on it. What are the odds?


    Yes , green cheese to put it mildly given the mince he posts. A yellow belly lowlife.
This discussion has been closed.