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Defection watch – politicalbetting.com

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  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Jonathan said:

    The world seems to be an increasingly dark place. And I don’t mean that the clocks have gone back.

    Why would we think you did? Do you think changing the clocks affects net darkness?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Ishmael_Z said:

    kamski said:

    malcolmg said:

    kamski said:

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    More interested in the idea he has brains. He certainly hides it well!
    Hmm if you have read his posts over the years it is very obvious that he is very intelligent indeed.
    Mostly seen posts where he blindly repeats stuff that he has clearly neither checked (even rudimentarily), nor understood.
    Plus some abuse. I admit his abuse is occasionally more original than your repetitive stuff, but that's a very low bar.
    Whatever else he is, he is clearly one very bright cookie. What a striking coincidence that you should save up your allegation of him not understanding things, for one of the still infrequent gaps where you have no need to fear him taking you up on it. What are the odds?


    I'm sure he's very much enjoying us all talking about him.

    I've said the same directly to him too, on several occasions, and he has been pretty abusive to me too.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Ishmael_Z said:

    kamski said:

    malcolmg said:

    kamski said:

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    More interested in the idea he has brains. He certainly hides it well!
    Hmm if you have read his posts over the years it is very obvious that he is very intelligent indeed.
    Mostly seen posts where he blindly repeats stuff that he has clearly neither checked (even rudimentarily), nor understood.
    Plus some abuse. I admit his abuse is occasionally more original than your repetitive stuff, but that's a very low bar.
    Whatever else he is, he is clearly one very bright cookie. What a striking coincidence that you should save up your allegation of him not understanding things, for one of the still infrequent gaps where you have no need to fear him taking you up on it. What are the odds?

    The manner of his banning does not suggest the brightest bulb on the tree. Unless it was some further attempt at ironic hilarity
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    .

    Eduardo Rodrigo
    @Eduardo48824458
    Replying to
    @BenjaminFogel
    The operations are all focused on places on wich Lula wins! There are much more people affected than these 3 million. Many will not take the risk to leave their homes to be locked up on traffic!

    So if Bolsonaro wins, it's illegitimate?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    edited October 2022
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    The world seems to be an increasingly dark place. And I don’t mean that the clocks have gone back.

    Why would we think you did? Do you think changing the clocks affects net darkness?
    I don’t know. Had a busy, good weekend. Sat back on a Sunday evening to catch up with the world. Read the news, read PB and felt bleak. Then looked out of the window and saw the dingy, wind and rain and wasn’t particularly uplifted.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    I'm not betting at the moment, but I'm watching the betting markets closely all the same.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    A Bolsanaro win will lead to environmental devastation in the Amazon.

    This election is bloody important.

    I'm glad to see some people have the priorities in mind, in all seriousness.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    Surely no way back after dropping the Hard R. Unless Dark Elon buys the site.
    Whats the hard R?
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard R
    Oh dear
    Yeah, still, "he bought the drinks" eh
    He did yes and i predict he will be back within a week despite him using the N word


    As I say its not up to us we are mere guests and I say that as someone who has been attacked brutally by Sean on a couple of occasions
    With Sean he sees it all as some huge post-modernist joke. The post he got banned for was a reply to me suggesting his Hitler themed screenshots the other month we’re not a wind up. For what it’s worth, they probably were, but his tiresome layering of irony and “satire” on ostensible reality means we’re all just part of his personal joke. So I decided to accept them as real. And it was, in a double dose of irony, his “ironic” use of the vilest word that got him banned.

    At least it's easy to find out where he lives - credulous.offensive.twat surely zeroes in on his front door?
    I once posted a pic of his house on PB - completely unwittingly. He was overjoyed as it was from a lovely old print c. 1840.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Driver said:

    .

    Eduardo Rodrigo
    @Eduardo48824458
    Replying to
    @BenjaminFogel
    The operations are all focused on places on wich Lula wins! There are much more people affected than these 3 million. Many will not take the risk to leave their homes to be locked up on traffic!

    So if Bolsonaro wins, it's illegitimate?
    Bolsonaro will win. Lula will not. The oracle of Norwich has spoken. 51.5 to 48.5
  • Driver said:

    .

    Eduardo Rodrigo
    @Eduardo48824458
    Replying to
    @BenjaminFogel
    The operations are all focused on places on wich Lula wins! There are much more people affected than these 3 million. Many will not take the risk to leave their homes to be locked up on traffic!

    So if Bolsonaro wins, it's illegitimate?
    Depends on how much he has tried to, and succeeded in, suppressing the vote. It is one of the reasons we have independent observers, either national or international, at elections.

    It may well be that he wins legitimately but using force to suppress the vote will undermine that legitimacy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    A Bolsanaro win will lead to environmental devastation in the Amazon.

    This election is bloody important.

    Yes. Also the aftermath because I'll be surprised if Bolsonaro goes quietly.
  • Driver said:

    .

    Eduardo Rodrigo
    @Eduardo48824458
    Replying to
    @BenjaminFogel
    The operations are all focused on places on wich Lula wins! There are much more people affected than these 3 million. Many will not take the risk to leave their homes to be locked up on traffic!

    So if Bolsonaro wins, it's illegitimate?
    Bolsonaro will win. Lula will not. The oracle of Norwich has spoken. 51.5 to 48.5
    The oracle of Norwich being....? You? if so you've presumably backed him at 2.82?
  • Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    Surely no way back after dropping the Hard R. Unless Dark Elon buys the site.
    Whats the hard R?
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard R
    Oh dear
    Yeah, still, "he bought the drinks" eh
    He did yes and i predict he will be back within a week despite him using the N word


    As I say its not up to us we are mere guests and I say that as someone who has been attacked brutally by Sean on a couple of occasions
    With Sean he sees it all as some huge post-modernist joke. The post he got banned for was a reply to me suggesting his Hitler themed screenshots the other month we’re not a wind up. For what it’s worth, they probably were, but his tiresome layering of irony and “satire” on ostensible reality means we’re all just part of his personal joke. So I decided to accept them as real. And it was, in a double dose of irony, his “ironic” use of the vilest word that got him banned.

    At least it's easy to find out where he lives - credulous.offensive.twat surely zeroes in on his front door?
    I once posted a pic of his house on PB - completely unwittingly. He was overjoyed as it was from a lovely old print c. 1840.
    What Leon demonstrates to an uncomfortable degree is How To Be A Writer. Stringing words together in the right order is not sufficient. We can all do that.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    The reports coming out of Brazil about voter suppression are sickening. Bolsano knows he will lose if everyone who wants to vote, votes
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    ohnotnow said:

    mwadams said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    mwadams said:

    kjh said:

    @Leon - Fascinating looking at your pictures. Brings back my Iceland trip to me. Did everything you have done so far.

    Are you going to answer my question asked on the previous couple of threads re the economics of travel journalism? Would be grateful for the feedback. I used the @Leon reference so you should find it easily.

    And to anyone else can you give advice please: I have some medlars which have bletted and I have removed the flesh. I don't want to make jam. Any suggestions as to what to do with it?

    If you've got enough, why not medlar gin:
    https://www.buildthebottle.com/2019/08/23/medlar-gin-liqueur-recipe/
    That's great - same principle as slow gin.

    This set-custard medlar tart looks good. https://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/recipes/medlar-tart
    Fast gin and sloe women is my preference.

    Medlars are fantastic ornamentals for blossom fruit and autumn colour, as a food: if you play your cards *exactly* right you end up with something like a rotten pear, but not so nice. Discard.

    Much too much sugar in that recipe by the look of it, this is how people spoil sloe gin. And sloes are tart.
    My mate's slow gin is amazing (and not over-sweet). But I don't have the recipe. So that's an anecdote that goes nowhere.
    I made a nice gin (if I do say so myself) by flavouring it with some rose petals and a little sugar. Just a hint of turkish delight about it. I should probably do that again sometime.
    I missed most of these posts earlier. So in reply to all - thank you. The tart looks nice. If my medlar cheese does not set it will get re used in that tart, but I agree with less sugar. Just for reference it's sloes not slows.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Leon/SeanT/MissyG/whoever is a nasty, racist, horrible bully and when he comes on the site the quality drops quickly. I now actively avoid the site when he is around.

    Got to say I think you are comprehensively wrong in this assessment. I don't recognise any of what you claim about him. He is forthright and does a fine line in abuse but he is no bully. He doesn't expect anyone to be cowed by his postings and delights in people fighting back against him. I would suggest that it is undeniable that he is an asset to this site even though I disagree with him on the majority of what he posts.
    I've always found him reasonable online company alongside most people on here. There are one or two i wouldnt cross the street to say hello to (polite version) but id expect some to feel that way about me too, thats life. Dont take yourself too seriously and theres enough of a cross section of society and 'types' on here to entertain.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Leon/SeanT/MissyG/whoever is a nasty, racist, horrible bully and when he comes on the site the quality drops quickly. I now actively avoid the site when he is around.

    Got to say I think you are comprehensively wrong in this assessment. I don't recognise any of what you claim about him. He is forthright and does a fine line in abuse but he is no bully. He doesn't expect anyone to be cowed by his postings and delights in people fighting back against him. I would suggest that it is undeniable that he is an asset to this site even though I disagree with him on the majority of what he posts.
    I am sorry to say Richard, when he starts on with his autism narratives, I politely disagree on account of my son's ASD only to be bombarded with abuse regarding my humourless wokery. He is unbearably unpleasant when he rides that particular rodeo.

    I am convinced he is an internet troll. In reality, possibly a dreary Librarian and Lib Dem Parish Councillor called Colin from Bromyard, rather than the exotic travel writer and novelist he claims to be.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    DougSeal said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    kamski said:

    malcolmg said:

    kamski said:

    Leon is still - I think - a net asset, but he’s less interesting and more barely-concealed-fascist-sympathiser these days.

    I am interested in the psychology of it.
    Does one develop a fascination for the fuhrerprinciple with old age, or are you born with it?

    Leon has the brains to want to explore - both the geographical world but also the world of the mind and that involves sometimes provoking the status quo on here (which can get groupthinky) . He is not a fascist (from his instinct I would say more the opposite) but because he is unconventional in thought he provokes reaction .
    Interesting. What evidence can you offer to support your idea that @Leon is the opposite of a fascist? Indeed what do you think the opposite of a fascist is?
    More interested in the idea he has brains. He certainly hides it well!
    Hmm if you have read his posts over the years it is very obvious that he is very intelligent indeed.
    Mostly seen posts where he blindly repeats stuff that he has clearly neither checked (even rudimentarily), nor understood.
    Plus some abuse. I admit his abuse is occasionally more original than your repetitive stuff, but that's a very low bar.
    Whatever else he is, he is clearly one very bright cookie. What a striking coincidence that you should save up your allegation of him not understanding things, for one of the still infrequent gaps where you have no need to fear him taking you up on it. What are the odds?

    The manner of his banning does not suggest the brightest bulb on the tree. Unless it was some further attempt at ironic hilarity
    The various domain experts generally say that he is wrong/misinterpreting/using dodgy info.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Sounds like it might not be a fair fight in Brazil.

    I'm oot.
  • Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    Surely no way back after dropping the Hard R. Unless Dark Elon buys the site.
    Whats the hard R?
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard R
    Oh dear
    Yeah, still, "he bought the drinks" eh
    He did yes and i predict he will be back within a week despite him using the N word


    As I say its not up to us we are mere guests and I say that as someone who has been attacked brutally by Sean on a couple of occasions
    With Sean he sees it all as some huge post-modernist joke. The post he got banned for was a reply to me suggesting his Hitler themed screenshots the other month we’re not a wind up. For what it’s worth, they probably were, but his tiresome layering of irony and “satire” on ostensible reality means we’re all just part of his personal joke. So I decided to accept them as real. And it was, in a double dose of irony, his “ironic” use of the vilest word that got him banned.

    At least it's easy to find out where he lives - credulous.offensive.twat surely zeroes in on his front door?
    I once posted a pic of his house on PB - completely unwittingly. He was overjoyed as it was from a lovely old print c. 1840.
    What Leon demonstrates to an uncomfortable degree is How To Be A Writer. Stringing words together in the right order is not sufficient. We can all do that.
    yes and have read all his novels which are of course very much in his writing style on here !
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022

    Driver said:

    .

    Eduardo Rodrigo
    @Eduardo48824458
    Replying to
    @BenjaminFogel
    The operations are all focused on places on wich Lula wins! There are much more people affected than these 3 million. Many will not take the risk to leave their homes to be locked up on traffic!

    So if Bolsonaro wins, it's illegitimate?
    Bolsonaro will win. Lula will not. The oracle of Norwich has spoken. 51.5 to 48.5
    The oracle of Norwich being....? You? if so you've presumably backed him at 2.82?
    Naturally its me. No, its my opinion based on the first round and polling trend. Im not interested enough to waste one of my very occasional small bets on it.
    If im giving what i consider a solid betting tip ill say it is, anything else is opinion. This is an opinion
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited October 2022

    Leon/SeanT/MissyG/whoever [... ] when he comes on the site the quality drops quickly. I now actively avoid the site when he is around.

    Hi CHB.

    Whether or not everyone agrees with all of your adjectives, which I've edited out in the quote, there is no doubt in my mind that the quality can quickly drop when he's on the site. I too avoid the place when he is around.

    If someone disagrees with him he can quickly turn very nasty, with full-blown personal abuse.

    The thing about him though is that he is, above all else, an attention seeker. He was a well-known author but the world moved on from the portrayal of women and life he portrayed. Rather like Piers Morgan he is now left with nothing but to be drunk on provocation. As a result, it's often ugly.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    Driver said:

    .

    Eduardo Rodrigo
    @Eduardo48824458
    Replying to
    @BenjaminFogel
    The operations are all focused on places on wich Lula wins! There are much more people affected than these 3 million. Many will not take the risk to leave their homes to be locked up on traffic!

    So if Bolsonaro wins, it's illegitimate?
    Bolsonaro will win. Lula will not. The oracle of Norwich has spoken. 51.5 to 48.5
    The oracle of Norwich being....? You? if so you've presumably backed him at 2.82?
    I thought that was @bunnco ?

    I presume he's not in Brazil today, though.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Leon/SeanT/MissyG/whoever is a nasty, racist, horrible bully and when he comes on the site the quality drops quickly. I now actively avoid the site when he is around.

    Got to say I think you are comprehensively wrong in this assessment. I don't recognise any of what you claim about him. He is forthright and does a fine line in abuse but he is no bully. He doesn't expect anyone to be cowed by his postings and delights in people fighting back against him. I would suggest that it is undeniable that he is an asset to this site even though I disagree with him on the majority of what he posts.
    I am sorry to say Richard, when he starts on with his autism narratives, I politely disagree on account of my son's ASD only to be bombarded with abuse regarding my humourless wokery. He is unbearably unpleasant when he rides that particular rodeo.

    I am convinced he is an internet troll. In reality, possibly a dreary Librarian and Lib Dem Parish Councillor called Colin from Bromyard, rather than the exotic travel writer and novelist
    he claims to be.
    I don’t think he’s a travel writer. It’s all part of this online persona he’s constructed. And the terrible quality of his prose discounts the idea that he’s a published writer. He’s doubtless someone from somewhere dreary in the Home Counties living a fantasy.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    What a shit choice Brazil has.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Driver said:

    .

    Eduardo Rodrigo
    @Eduardo48824458
    Replying to
    @BenjaminFogel
    The operations are all focused on places on wich Lula wins! There are much more people affected than these 3 million. Many will not take the risk to leave their homes to be locked up on traffic!

    So if Bolsonaro wins, it's illegitimate?
    Bolsonaro will win. Lula will not. The oracle of Norwich has spoken. 51.5 to 48.5
    The oracle of Norwich being....? You? if so you've presumably backed him at 2.82?
    I thought that was @bunnco ?

    I presume he's not in Brazil today, though.
    @bunnco is your man on the spot!
    Hes also rather more reliable than me, even if i do provide occasional gold for those with ears
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    algarkirk said:

    Call me old fashioned, but if an MP decides to cross the floor shouldn't it be on a matter of profound political principle? Not simply because their lot are lagging in the polls and he or she is likely to get booted out at the next general election.

    No views on that; but there is overwhelmingly gigantic common ground between Labour and Tory, making the exaggerated difference absurd.

    Mainstream moderates in both parties support: NHS, free education 5-18, NATO, nuclear, state pensions, welfare for the poorer and needier, policing, justice systems, devolution, not currently being in EU, state managed expenditure at roughly current levels, regulated private enterprise, big corporate capitalism, private but regulated banks and financial sector, London as world class financial centre, a better than average HE/university system, government obedience to court orders, fairly progressive taxation, monarchy, a liberal social order, freedom of belief, multi- party democracy.

    The differences in truth are almost all about style, rhetoric, tinkering at the edges, small scale retail offers, and tiny amounts of state expenditure up and down the axis.

    The search which is really on is for a government who can deliver the agreed package competently. it is almost nothing to do with policies.

    You assume wrongly in my opinion that the agreed package can be delivered.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    DougSeal said:

    Leon/SeanT/MissyG/whoever is a nasty, racist, horrible bully and when he comes on the site the quality drops quickly. I now actively avoid the site when he is around.

    Got to say I think you are comprehensively wrong in this assessment. I don't recognise any of what you claim about him. He is forthright and does a fine line in abuse but he is no bully. He doesn't expect anyone to be cowed by his postings and delights in people fighting back against him. I would suggest that it is undeniable that he is an asset to this site even though I disagree with him on the majority of what he posts.
    I am sorry to say Richard, when he starts on with his autism narratives, I politely disagree on account of my son's ASD only to be bombarded with abuse regarding my humourless wokery. He is unbearably unpleasant when he rides that particular rodeo.

    I am convinced he is an internet troll. In reality, possibly a dreary Librarian and Lib Dem Parish Councillor called Colin from Bromyard, rather than the exotic travel writer and novelist
    he claims to be.
    I don’t think he’s a travel writer. It’s all part of this online persona he’s constructed. And the terrible quality of his prose discounts the idea that he’s a published writer. He’s doubtless someone from somewhere dreary in the Home Counties living a fantasy.

    The prose he wrote was not exactly Booker material.

    There are writers and writers. Some of the most successful are terriible.

    Anyway, I have better things to do than discuss Sean. Have a good evening everyone.

    xx
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Driver said:

    .

    Eduardo Rodrigo
    @Eduardo48824458
    Replying to
    @BenjaminFogel
    The operations are all focused on places on wich Lula wins! There are much more people affected than these 3 million. Many will not take the risk to leave their homes to be locked up on traffic!

    So if Bolsonaro wins, it's illegitimate?
    If he has cheated yes, if he hasn't no. What response do you expect?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    One thing is for sure: Sean will be smiling at the fact that he's one of the main topics of conversation even though he's not on...

    Which is exactly what feeds him. ;)
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    One thing is for sure: Sean will be smiling at the fact that he's one of the main topics of conversation even though he's not on...

    Which is exactly what feeds him. ;)

    Hi Sean! 👋
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    One thing is for sure: Sean will be smiling at the fact that he's one of the main topics of conversation even though he's not on...

    Which is exactly what feeds him. ;)

    I'm sure he will remain ever so 'umble though, he doesnt strike me as the sort with a large ego
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    What a shit choice Brazil has.
    Foxy said:



    Sounds like it might not be a fair fight in Brazil.

    I'm oot.

    Me too. I have cashed out.

    Bolsanaro has openly favoured dictatorship previously. Why shouldn't we believe him?
    Very wise.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    We finished watching Dopesick today. What a completely depressing show. It really, really gives an insight into American cultural obsessiveness of profit being more important than people and how the profit motive in pharma can result in diabolical results ending in misery and death for millions of people.

    I'm not a great fan of the NHS, yet when I see some of the results of the American system I'd rather have the NHS than what they have where doctors were incentivised to become drug dealers in lab coats, Purdue became a kingpin drug supplier that might fit better in The Wire than real life.

    I have no idea how American society moves on from this when somewhere around 3m Americans are addicted to opioids, and even that's potentially an underestimate, some have suggested that 7-10% of American working age adults have used opioid based drugs recreationally. America is a nation of addicts with no idea how to help these people come out of the other side of addiction and lead normal lives.

    Worse still is that the Sackler family has squirrelled away the billions of dollars they made from addicting millions of people to opiates and not a single one has gone to jail. It's completely disgusting.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    A Bolsanaro win will lead to environmental devastation in the Amazon.

    This election is bloody important.

    Yes. Also the aftermath because I'll be surprised if Bolsonaro goes quietly.
    If the rest of the world considers the Amazon to be important, the rest of the world ought to be buying it and holding it. It's not enough to simply say, sorry poor people of Brazil, you can't exploit this massive area of land on your doorstep to make yourself richer - we have to make it worth their while not to do so.
    In principle yes. In practice it isn’t the poor people of Brazil who are making the money
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    Heathener said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon/SeanT/MissyG/whoever is a nasty, racist, horrible bully and when he comes on the site the quality drops quickly. I now actively avoid the site when he is around.

    Got to say I think you are comprehensively wrong in this assessment. I don't recognise any of what you claim about him. He is forthright and does a fine line in abuse but he is no bully. He doesn't expect anyone to be cowed by his postings and delights in people fighting back against him. I would suggest that it is undeniable that he is an asset to this site even though I disagree with him on the majority of what he posts.
    I am sorry to say Richard, when he starts on with his autism narratives, I politely disagree on account of my son's ASD only to be bombarded with abuse regarding my humourless wokery. He is unbearably unpleasant when he rides that particular rodeo.

    I am convinced he is an internet troll. In reality, possibly a dreary Librarian and Lib Dem Parish Councillor called Colin from Bromyard, rather than the exotic travel writer and novelist
    he claims to be.
    I don’t think he’s a travel writer. It’s all part of this online persona he’s constructed. And the terrible quality of his prose discounts the idea that he’s a published writer. He’s doubtless someone from somewhere dreary in the Home Counties living a fantasy.

    The prose he wrote was not exactly Booker material.

    There are writers and writers. Some of the most successful are terriible.

    Anyway, I have better things to do than discuss Sean. Have a good evening everyone.

    xx
    His dad's book "The White Hotel" is very good. That did make the Booker shortlist.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    MaxPB said:

    We finished watching Dopesick today. What a completely depressing show. It really, really gives an insight into American cultural obsessiveness of profit being more important than people and how the profit motive in pharma can result in diabolical results ending in misery and death for millions of people.

    I'm not a great fan of the NHS, yet when I see some of the results of the American system I'd rather have the NHS than what they have where doctors were incentivised to become drug dealers in lab coats, Purdue became a kingpin drug supplier that might fit better in The Wire than real life.

    I have no idea how American society moves on from this when somewhere around 3m Americans are addicted to opioids, and even that's potentially an underestimate, some have suggested that 7-10% of American working age adults have used opioid based drugs recreationally. America is a nation of addicts with no idea how to help these people come out of the other side of addiction and lead normal lives.

    Worse still is that the Sackler family has squirrelled away the billions of dollars they made from addicting millions of people to opiates and not a single one has gone to jail. It's completely disgusting.

    Agree, but can we please not fall into the classic British debating fallacy trap of intimating there are only two possible healthcare system models: the NHS or the US?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    DougSeal said:

    One thing is for sure: Sean will be smiling at the fact that he's one of the main topics of conversation even though he's not on...

    Which is exactly what feeds him. ;)

    Hi Sean! 👋
    Yeah, the whole furry caveman persona was never credible…
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    Benjamin Fogel
    @BenjaminFogel
    I don't want to sound alarmist, but there is a serious attempt at a coup happening in the open right now in Brazil. The Federal Traffic Police along with state police and elements of the army are trying to suppress the vote across the country.

    FFS
    Man posts rubbish to Twitter.
    No the state police and "elements of the army" are not trying to "suppress the vote across the country".

    If the result is disputed Bolsonaro may try something, but that hasn't happened yet.

    If he does try something, it will probably be violent rather than judicial. He detests the Supreme Court and has called them friends of Lula. But I doubt there will be civil war in Brazil, which is what you would be talking about. Some commentators are being overdramatic.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    A Bolsanaro win will lead to environmental devastation in the Amazon.

    This election is bloody important.

    Yes. Also the aftermath because I'll be surprised if Bolsonaro goes quietly.
    If the rest of the world considers the Amazon to be important, the rest of the world ought to be buying it and holding it. It's not enough to simply say, sorry poor people of Brazil, you can't exploit this massive area of land on your doorstep to make yourself richer - we have to make it worth their while not to do so.
    Yes, and the fiscal transfers required to make ecological preserves very profitable would need to be in the tens of billions annually- if not more.

    A hard sell to electorates.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    MaxPB said:

    We finished watching Dopesick today. What a completely depressing show. It really, really gives an insight into American cultural obsessiveness of profit being more important than people and how the profit motive in pharma can result in diabolical results ending in misery and death for millions of people.

    I'm not a great fan of the NHS, yet when I see some of the results of the American system I'd rather have the NHS than what they have where doctors were incentivised to become drug dealers in lab coats, Purdue became a kingpin drug supplier that might fit better in The Wire than real life.

    I have no idea how American society moves on from this when somewhere around 3m Americans are addicted to opioids, and even that's potentially an underestimate, some have suggested that 7-10% of American working age adults have used opioid based drugs recreationally. America is a nation of addicts with no idea how to help these people come out of the other side of addiction and lead normal lives.

    Worse still is that the Sackler family has squirrelled away the billions of dollars they made from addicting millions of people to opiates and not a single one has gone to jail. It's completely disgusting.

    For what it is worth, over the years I’ve kept a very close eye on Purdue. The rest of the pharma industry regarded them with contempt

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    DJ41 said:

    Benjamin Fogel
    @BenjaminFogel
    I don't want to sound alarmist, but there is a serious attempt at a coup happening in the open right now in Brazil. The Federal Traffic Police along with state police and elements of the army are trying to suppress the vote across the country.

    FFS
    Man posts rubbish to Twitter.
    No the state police and "elements of the army" are not trying to "suppress the vote across the country".

    If the result is disputed Bolsonaro may try something, but that hasn't happened yet.

    If he does try something, it will probably be violent rather than judicial. He detests the Supreme Court and has called them friends of Lula. But I doubt there will be civil war in Brazil, which is what you would be talking about. Some commentators are being overdramatic.
    There other reports on Twitter. What is the truth? Who knows, but could be that the fix is in.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829

    MaxPB said:

    We finished watching Dopesick today. What a completely depressing show. It really, really gives an insight into American cultural obsessiveness of profit being more important than people and how the profit motive in pharma can result in diabolical results ending in misery and death for millions of people.

    I'm not a great fan of the NHS, yet when I see some of the results of the American system I'd rather have the NHS than what they have where doctors were incentivised to become drug dealers in lab coats, Purdue became a kingpin drug supplier that might fit better in The Wire than real life.

    I have no idea how American society moves on from this when somewhere around 3m Americans are addicted to opioids, and even that's potentially an underestimate, some have suggested that 7-10% of American working age adults have used opioid based drugs recreationally. America is a nation of addicts with no idea how to help these people come out of the other side of addiction and lead normal lives.

    Worse still is that the Sackler family has squirrelled away the billions of dollars they made from addicting millions of people to opiates and not a single one has gone to jail. It's completely disgusting.

    Agree, but can we please not fall into the classic British debating fallacy trap of intimating there are only two possible healthcare system models: the NHS or the US?
    No of course, I'm not suggesting the NHS shouldn't be reformed, it's more that having such a strong regulatory framework, a medical system that doesn't incentivise doctors and companies to maximise profits at the expense of patients. Whatever one thinks of the NHS, patient care is still one of the primary aims and something like the Purdue/oxycontin crisis could simply never happen here.

    What worries me is that drug dealers have successfully contaminated party drugs in America fentanyl and it won't be long until they do it here. I hope the government and police are ready to go in with life sentences for any drug dealers who do that and take an absolute zero tolerance approach when it happens. I have no doubt that my kids will do party drugs when they are at the right age, I don't want them to accidentally end up becoming smack addicts.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Foxy said:

    DJ41 said:

    Benjamin Fogel
    @BenjaminFogel
    I don't want to sound alarmist, but there is a serious attempt at a coup happening in the open right now in Brazil. The Federal Traffic Police along with state police and elements of the army are trying to suppress the vote across the country.

    FFS
    Man posts rubbish to Twitter.
    No the state police and "elements of the army" are not trying to "suppress the vote across the country".

    If the result is disputed Bolsonaro may try something, but that hasn't happened yet.

    If he does try something, it will probably be violent rather than judicial. He detests the Supreme Court and has called them friends of Lula. But I doubt there will be civil war in Brazil, which is what you would be talking about. Some commentators are being overdramatic.
    There other reports on Twitter. What is the truth? Who knows, but could be that the fix is in.
    Is this the Brazilian equivalent of our ‘huge queues suggesting high voter turnout’, that pops up every election?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    MaxPB said:

    We finished watching Dopesick today. What a completely depressing show. It really, really gives an insight into American cultural obsessiveness of profit being more important than people and how the profit motive in pharma can result in diabolical results ending in misery and death for millions of people.

    I'm not a great fan of the NHS, yet when I see some of the results of the American system I'd rather have the NHS than what they have where doctors were incentivised to become drug dealers in lab coats, Purdue became a kingpin drug supplier that might fit better in The Wire than real life.

    I have no idea how American society moves on from this when somewhere around 3m Americans are addicted to opioids, and even that's potentially an underestimate, some have suggested that 7-10% of American working age adults have used opioid based drugs recreationally. America is a nation of addicts with no idea how to help these people come out of the other side of addiction and lead normal lives.

    Worse still is that the Sackler family has squirrelled away the billions of dollars they made from addicting millions of people to opiates and not a single one has gone to jail. It's completely disgusting.

    I have been interested in the US opiod epidemic for some years, since reading Dreamland:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic-ebook/dp/B00U19DTS0?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=0810302d-96f5-4404-acf6-bda6173645e5

    Don't think it cannot happen here. It wasn't just the prescription opioids that have been a problem.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    DougSeal said:

    One thing is for sure: Sean will be smiling at the fact that he's one of the main topics of conversation even though he's not on...

    Which is exactly what feeds him. ;)

    Hi Sean! 👋
    Yeah, the whole furry caveman persona was never credible…
    ;)

    How about the long-distance-walker-now-runner-stay-at-home-dad-train-and-engineering-enthusiast persona?
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited October 2022

    Foxy said:

    DJ41 said:

    Benjamin Fogel
    @BenjaminFogel
    I don't want to sound alarmist, but there is a serious attempt at a coup happening in the open right now in Brazil. The Federal Traffic Police along with state police and elements of the army are trying to suppress the vote across the country.

    FFS
    Man posts rubbish to Twitter.
    No the state police and "elements of the army" are not trying to "suppress the vote across the country".

    If the result is disputed Bolsonaro may try something, but that hasn't happened yet.

    If he does try something, it will probably be violent rather than judicial. He detests the Supreme Court and has called them friends of Lula. But I doubt there will be civil war in Brazil, which is what you would be talking about. Some commentators are being overdramatic.
    There other reports on Twitter. What is the truth? Who knows, but could be that the fix is in.
    Is this the Brazilian equivalent of our ‘huge queues suggesting high voter turnout’, that pops up every election?
    Could be. I don't use Twitter. For starters, are any of these reports in Portuguese and what are the sources? Twitter is essentially a toilet wall. Friends in Brasilia tell me there has been a story about traffic police. Mountain and molehill. The Lula campaign has been super-fired up. There may have been one or two incidents but almost all of those who wanted to vote for Lula (or Bolsonaro) will have done so. "Elements of the army...across the country" - nope.

    Lula now at 1.58.
    $16.1m matched.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished watching Dopesick today. What a completely depressing show. It really, really gives an insight into American cultural obsessiveness of profit being more important than people and how the profit motive in pharma can result in diabolical results ending in misery and death for millions of people.

    I'm not a great fan of the NHS, yet when I see some of the results of the American system I'd rather have the NHS than what they have where doctors were incentivised to become drug dealers in lab coats, Purdue became a kingpin drug supplier that might fit better in The Wire than real life.

    I have no idea how American society moves on from this when somewhere around 3m Americans are addicted to opioids, and even that's potentially an underestimate, some have suggested that 7-10% of American working age adults have used opioid based drugs recreationally. America is a nation of addicts with no idea how to help these people come out of the other side of addiction and lead normal lives.

    Worse still is that the Sackler family has squirrelled away the billions of dollars they made from addicting millions of people to opiates and not a single one has gone to jail. It's completely disgusting.

    I have been interested in the US opiod epidemic for some years, since reading Dreamland:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic-ebook/dp/B00U19DTS0?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=0810302d-96f5-4404-acf6-bda6173645e5

    Don't think it cannot happen here. It wasn't just the prescription opioids that have been a problem.
    I just don't think the MHRA would allow it to be approved in the same manner with claims of only a 1% addiction rate and it being less addictive than other opioids. Doctors not being able to charge £250 for a prescription also makes it extremely unlikely. As I said, what worries me is drug dealers attempting to do what American ones have done and cut party drugs with fentanyl to create a more reliable customer market for themselves. That's when the state has to step up, legalise the party drugs and go absolutely mental and lock up any residual drug dealers with absolute impunity.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2022
    DJ41 said:

    Benjamin Fogel
    @BenjaminFogel
    I don't want to sound alarmist, but there is a serious attempt at a coup happening in the open right now in Brazil. The Federal Traffic Police along with state police and elements of the army are trying to suppress the vote across the country.

    FFS
    Man posts rubbish to Twitter.
    No the state police and "elements of the army" are not trying to "suppress the vote across the country".
    .
    How do you know?
  • DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    DJ41 said:

    Benjamin Fogel
    @BenjaminFogel
    I don't want to sound alarmist, but there is a serious attempt at a coup happening in the open right now in Brazil. The Federal Traffic Police along with state police and elements of the army are trying to suppress the vote across the country.

    FFS
    Man posts rubbish to Twitter.
    No the state police and "elements of the army" are not trying to "suppress the vote across the country".

    If the result is disputed Bolsonaro may try something, but that hasn't happened yet.

    If he does try something, it will probably be violent rather than judicial. He detests the Supreme Court and has called them friends of Lula. But I doubt there will be civil war in Brazil, which is what you would be talking about. Some commentators are being overdramatic.
    There other reports on Twitter. What is the truth? Who knows, but could be that the fix is in.
    Is this the Brazilian equivalent of our ‘huge queues suggesting high voter turnout’, that pops up every election?
    Could be. I don't use Twitter. For starters, are any of these reports in Portuguese and what are the sources? Twitter is essentially a toilet wall. Friends in Brasilia tell me there has been a story about traffic police. Mountain and molehill. The Lula campaign has been super-fired up. There may have been one or two incidents but almost all of those who wanted to vote for Lula (or Bolsonaro) will have done so. "Elements of the army...across the country" - nope.

    Lula now at 1.58.
    $16.1m matched.
    There are like 120m voters or something in Brazil. It would take quite the effort to achieve even a moderate swing that way.

    That being said, the race already looked pretty close.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Alistair said:

    DJ41 said:

    Benjamin Fogel
    @BenjaminFogel
    I don't want to sound alarmist, but there is a serious attempt at a coup happening in the open right now in Brazil. The Federal Traffic Police along with state police and elements of the army are trying to suppress the vote across the country.

    FFS
    Man posts rubbish to Twitter.
    No the state police and "elements of the army" are not trying to "suppress the vote across the country".
    .
    How do you know?
    From friends in Brasilia. They would know.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Ishmael_Z said:

    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
    ForgottenGenius
    @ExStrategist
    The sheer narcissism of Jeremy Corbyn, one of the most unpopular politicians among working class voters in history believing he would be an asset to Lula is remarkable.
    Esp given his role as a useful idiot for the regime which dispersed 5m Venezuelan refugees around S.America.
    Yes here is Corbyn on the Lula bus.

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1586748528600252422?t=lE521N4ujAcar2mLN3Ms8w&s=19

    What an awful choice for Brazilians in this runoff, the Trump or the Corbyn of the Tropics! Pity the more centrist Tebet did not get past the first round.

    Even the US at least had the reasonably moderate Biden v Trump in 2020
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited October 2022
    Ishmael_Z said:

    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
    ForgottenGenius
    @ExStrategist
    The sheer narcissism of Jeremy Corbyn, one of the most unpopular politicians among working class voters in history believing he would be an asset to Lula is remarkable.
    Esp given his role as a useful idiot for the regime which dispersed 5m Venezuelan refugees around S.America.
    Lula and his team would be better placed to make the judgement than a British politician and presumably did make the judgement. This is Lula's sixth presidential campaign.
  • Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Call me old fashioned, but if an MP decides to cross the floor shouldn't it be on a matter of profound political principle? Not simply because their lot are lagging in the polls and he or she is likely to get booted out at the next general election.

    No views on that; but there is overwhelmingly gigantic common ground between Labour and Tory, making the exaggerated difference absurd.

    Mainstream moderates in both parties support: NHS, free education 5-18, NATO, nuclear, state pensions, welfare for the poorer and needier, policing, justice systems, devolution, not currently being in EU, state managed expenditure at roughly current levels, regulated private enterprise, big corporate capitalism, private but regulated banks and financial sector, London as world class financial centre, a better than average HE/university system, government obedience to court orders, fairly progressive taxation, monarchy, a liberal social order, freedom of belief, multi- party democracy.

    The differences in truth are almost all about style, rhetoric, tinkering at the edges, small scale retail offers, and tiny amounts of state expenditure up and down the axis.

    The search which is really on is for a government who can deliver the agreed package competently. it is almost nothing to do with policies.

    You assume wrongly in my opinion that the agreed package can be delivered.
    I think you're both right. There is clearly consensus in most policy areas (being what most of the electorate want) but we are running out of money to pay for it with a reducing working population as a share of the overall population. Income taxes are at historically high levels (with many at the bottom no longer paying them), consumption taxes are high (any higher could suppress economic activity) and discussion is now moving to wealth taxes (the last option before everything collapses into unaffordability). We really are getting near to the state either lifting retirement age by 5-10 years or cutting spending really hard (no in-work benefits, no elective surgery, more palliative-only end of life care). It's going to be rough.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    Lula price seems to be moving in very narrow range, back to about 1.55 now, was 1.58.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
    ForgottenGenius
    @ExStrategist
    The sheer narcissism of Jeremy Corbyn, one of the most unpopular politicians among working class voters in history believing he would be an asset to Lula is remarkable.
    Esp given his role as a useful idiot for the regime which dispersed 5m Venezuelan refugees around S.America.
    Yes here is Corbyn on the Lula bus.

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1586748528600252422?t=lE521N4ujAcar2mLN3Ms8w&s=19

    What an awful choice for Brazilians in this runoff, the Trump or the Corbyn of the Tropics! Pity the more centrist Tebet did not get past the first round.

    Even the US at least had the reasonably moderate Biden v Trump in 2020
    Trump is not "reasonably moderate" on any scale you care to choose. Don't be silly!
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited October 2022

    Brazil

    Evening all, polls close 8pm UK, 5pm Brasilia

    https://resultados.tse.jus.br/oficial/app/index.html#/eleicao/resultados

    https://g1.globo.com/politica/eleicoes/2022/apuracao/presidente.ghtml

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq2B49ltg8M

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlNjH_NvBVY

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.180434883

    Gut feel is Lula with 51-52% but wouldn't be totally amazed if Bolsonaro pulls it off.

    Note that when Rousseff won with 51.4% in 2014, she was behind for the first 80%+ of the count.

    Thanks for that info about the Workers' Party candidate in 2014 who won with 51.6%.
    Very interesting from a betting POV. Makes me feel more relaxed about Lula's price drifting too. Although as I write he's coming in again - now at 1.49.

  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    My first 4 figure bet so would be nice if there wasn't a fix!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Balrog said:

    My first 4 figure bet so would be nice if there wasn't a fix!

    Made my own first 4 figure bet yesterday for Liz Truss next PM at 1000/1. Will retire on that
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    Now Lula into 1.4s...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    edited October 2022
    According to a Brazilian friend, Bolsonaro would have been easily beaten if the centre-left had managed to put up a younger, fresh-faced, less corrupt candidate than Lula. He reckons Lula should scrape it, but only because Bolsonaro is so poisonous. There's little love for Lula.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    DougSeal said:

    Balrog said:

    My first 4 figure bet so would be nice if there wasn't a fix!

    Made my own first 4 figure bet yesterday for Liz Truss next PM at 1000/1. Will retire on that
    That sounds a bit short...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    edited October 2022

    DougSeal said:

    One thing is for sure: Sean will be smiling at the fact that he's one of the main topics of conversation even though he's not on...

    Which is exactly what feeds him. ;)

    Hi Sean! 👋
    Yeah, the whole furry caveman persona was never credible…
    ;)

    How about the long-distance-walker-now-runner-stay-at-home-dad-train-and-engineering-enthusiast persona?
    Caveman-at-the-water-park is more convincing…

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
    ForgottenGenius
    @ExStrategist
    The sheer narcissism of Jeremy Corbyn, one of the most unpopular politicians among working class voters in history believing he would be an asset to Lula is remarkable.
    Esp given his role as a useful idiot for the regime which dispersed 5m Venezuelan refugees around S.America.
    Yes here is Corbyn on the Lula bus.

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1586748528600252422?t=lE521N4ujAcar2mLN3Ms8w&s=19

    What an awful choice for Brazilians in this runoff, the Trump or the Corbyn of the Tropics! Pity the more centrist Tebet did not get past the first round.

    Even the US at least had the reasonably moderate Biden v Trump in 2020
    Trump is not "reasonably moderate" on any scale you care to choose. Don't be silly!
    Harsh. I think the 'reasonably moderate' was intended to apply only to Biden.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished watching Dopesick today. What a completely depressing show. It really, really gives an insight into American cultural obsessiveness of profit being more important than people and how the profit motive in pharma can result in diabolical results ending in misery and death for millions of people.

    I'm not a great fan of the NHS, yet when I see some of the results of the American system I'd rather have the NHS than what they have where doctors were incentivised to become drug dealers in lab coats, Purdue became a kingpin drug supplier that might fit better in The Wire than real life.

    I have no idea how American society moves on from this when somewhere around 3m Americans are addicted to opioids, and even that's potentially an underestimate, some have suggested that 7-10% of American working age adults have used opioid based drugs recreationally. America is a nation of addicts with no idea how to help these people come out of the other side of addiction and lead normal lives.

    Worse still is that the Sackler family has squirrelled away the billions of dollars they made from addicting millions of people to opiates and not a single one has gone to jail. It's completely disgusting.

    I have been interested in the US opiod epidemic for some years, since reading Dreamland:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic-ebook/dp/B00U19DTS0?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=0810302d-96f5-4404-acf6-bda6173645e5

    Don't think it cannot happen here. It wasn't just the prescription opioids that have been a problem.
    I just don't think the MHRA would allow it to be approved in the same manner with claims of only a 1% addiction rate and it being less addictive than other opioids. Doctors not being able to charge £250 for a prescription also makes it extremely unlikely. As I said, what worries me is drug dealers attempting to do what American ones have done and cut party drugs with fentanyl to create a more reliable customer market for themselves. That's when the state has to step up, legalise the party drugs and go absolutely mental and lock up any residual drug dealers with absolute impunity.
    The same products are available in the UK from Napp Pharmaceuticals (a separate company also owned by the Sacklers). The UK made sure they could only be prescribed by hospital doctors - GPs were allowed to continuation prescriptions after consultation but these were strongly discouraged
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    DougSeal said:

    Balrog said:

    My first 4 figure bet so would be nice if there wasn't a fix!

    Made my own first 4 figure bet yesterday for Liz Truss next PM at 1000/1. Will retire on that
    Please tell me this is a joke.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    That is a pretty big rally - and looks larger than the one calling for Russian gas

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1586773168240427009
    10000s of Czechs rallied in Prague holding Czech, Ukrainian & NATO flags. Ukraine's first lady Olena Zelenska also spoke to the protesters via video

    2 days after the other rally called against the EU, for gas talks with Moscow.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    DougSeal said:

    Balrog said:

    My first 4 figure bet so would be nice if there wasn't a fix!

    Made my own first 4 figure bet yesterday for Liz Truss next PM at 1000/1. Will retire on that
    1000 pence?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,055

    According to a Brazilian friend, Bolsonaro would have been easily beaten if the centre-left had managed to put up a younger, fresh-faced, less corrupt candidate than Lula. He reckons Lula should scrape it, but only because Bolsonaro is so poisonous. There's little love for Lula.

    Any sense of there being a clear alternative they might have picked? I have the standard, pretty British, crappy understanding of news in Brazil but it has felt odd that the choice appears to be between a far right nutter who wants to destroy the rain forest; and a man with a “controversial” past.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Why do they keep letting him back? We've seen slurs against Black people, Asians, Catholics, and more. It happens with alarming regularity.

    He adds colour to the site, despite his crazy bouts he is and always was one of the best posters on the site. Mediocrity is to be avoided.
    They can do what they like ofc, but if there's a policy that this and that isn't allowed, then it's no policy at all when they keep enabling it. Doesn't really make sense to me.
    Surely no way back after dropping the Hard R. Unless Dark Elon buys the site.
    Whats the hard R?
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard R
    Oh dear
    Yeah, still, "he bought the drinks" eh
    He did yes and i predict he will be back within a week despite him using the N word


    As I say its not up to us we are mere guests and I say that as someone who has been attacked brutally by Sean on a couple of occasions
    With Sean he sees it all as some huge post-modernist joke. The post he got banned for was a reply to me suggesting his Hitler themed screenshots the other month we’re not a wind up. For what it’s worth, they probably were, but his tiresome layering of irony and “satire” on ostensible reality means we’re all just part of his personal joke. So I decided to accept them as real. And it was, in a double dose of irony, his “ironic” use of the vilest word that got him banned.

    At least it's easy to find out where he lives - credulous.offensive.twat surely zeroes in on his front door?
    I once posted a pic of his house on PB - completely unwittingly. He was overjoyed as it was from a lovely old print c. 1840.
    What Leon demonstrates to an uncomfortable degree is How To Be A Writer. Stringing words together in the right order is not sufficient. We can all do that.
    yes and have read all his novels which are of course very much in his writing style on here !
    All of the characters speak in exactly the same voice?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    The temptation, if betting on a market you don't know very much about, is to chase it.

    Don't.
  • novanova Posts: 692

    DougSeal said:

    Balrog said:

    My first 4 figure bet so would be nice if there wasn't a fix!

    Made my own first 4 figure bet yesterday for Liz Truss next PM at 1000/1. Will retire on that
    Please tell me this is a joke.
    I think the four figures are in the 1000 to 1
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Balrog said:

    My first 4 figure bet so would be nice if there wasn't a fix!

    Made my own first 4 figure bet yesterday for Liz Truss next PM at 1000/1. Will retire on that
    Please tell me this is a joke.
    I’m very confident.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207

    The temptation, if betting on a market you don't know very much about, is to chase it.

    Don't.

    I'm just seeing what happens. It's mainly winnings from Truss leaving this year anyway
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Balrog said:

    My first 4 figure bet so would be nice if there wasn't a fix!

    Made my own first 4 figure bet yesterday for Liz Truss next PM at 1000/1. Will retire on that
    Please tell me this is a joke.
    I’m very confident.
    Why? How?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Balrog said:

    Now Lula into 1.4s...

    He briefly touched 1.65 for a moment there
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,055
    edited October 2022

    The temptation, if betting on a market you don't know very much about, is to chase it.

    Don't.

    My French election night betting accounts support your point. And that’s quite close and we see a lot of the news. I’m steering well clear of Brazil for this reason.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Pretty good op-ed on biosecurity.
    The underestimated risk for the future is the ‘information risk’, IMO. And it’s a bit difficult to see how it might be controlled.

    I've written an essay with my views on how to balance risks & benefits in virology research: https://nytimes.com/2022/10/30/opinion/virology-safety.html

    Important to work together to arrive at regulations that maximize benefits of valuable research w/o creating new risks from potential pandemic viruses in lab.

    https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1586700660766289920

    FWIW, I think Bloom tends towards the lab leak hypothesis - but it too good of a scientist to suggest that there’s any certainty either way.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    edited October 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished watching Dopesick today. What a completely depressing show. It really, really gives an insight into American cultural obsessiveness of profit being more important than people and how the profit motive in pharma can result in diabolical results ending in misery and death for millions of people.

    I'm not a great fan of the NHS, yet when I see some of the results of the American system I'd rather have the NHS than what they have where doctors were incentivised to become drug dealers in lab coats, Purdue became a kingpin drug supplier that might fit better in The Wire than real life.

    I have no idea how American society moves on from this when somewhere around 3m Americans are addicted to opioids, and even that's potentially an underestimate, some have suggested that 7-10% of American working age adults have used opioid based drugs recreationally. America is a nation of addicts with no idea how to help these people come out of the other side of addiction and lead normal lives.

    Worse still is that the Sackler family has squirrelled away the billions of dollars they made from addicting millions of people to opiates and not a single one has gone to jail. It's completely disgusting.

    I have been interested in the US opiod epidemic for some years, since reading Dreamland:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic-ebook/dp/B00U19DTS0?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=0810302d-96f5-4404-acf6-bda6173645e5

    Don't think it cannot happen here. It wasn't just the prescription opioids that have been a problem.
    I just don't think the MHRA would allow it to be approved in the same manner with claims of only a 1% addiction rate and it being less addictive than other opioids. Doctors not being able to charge £250 for a prescription also makes it extremely unlikely. As I said, what worries me is drug dealers attempting to do what American ones have done and cut party drugs with fentanyl to create a more reliable customer market for themselves. That's when the state has to step up, legalise the party drugs and go absolutely mental and lock up any residual drug dealers with absolute impunity.
    Yes, that is what I meant about not just being prescription opiods that are the problem.

    30 years ago I was quite liberal about drugs, but I have seen too much of what they do to people and families now. I would favour the Portuguese approach of decrimialisation and treatment, but don't want the government to profit from dealers.
  • FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.



  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    This isn't something I'm confident on betting on without an @AndyJS polling and turnout model.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    DJ41 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Evening. What time do polls close in Brazil?

    See my post at 5.58pm.

    Are you invested in a Brazilian PE market, @Andy_JS? I am on Lula at an overall price of 1.45. First bought him at 1.52 I think.
    He is certain to win he has had the Messiah over there batting for him this week (not Noel Edmonds)
    ForgottenGenius
    @ExStrategist
    The sheer narcissism of Jeremy Corbyn, one of the most unpopular politicians among working class voters in history believing he would be an asset to Lula is remarkable.
    Esp given his role as a useful idiot for the regime which dispersed 5m Venezuelan refugees around S.America.
    Yes here is Corbyn on the Lula bus.

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1586748528600252422?t=lE521N4ujAcar2mLN3Ms8w&s=19

    What an awful choice for Brazilians in this runoff, the Trump or the Corbyn of the Tropics! Pity the more centrist Tebet did not get past the first round.

    Even the US at least had the reasonably moderate Biden v Trump in 2020
    Trump is not "reasonably moderate" on any scale you care to choose. Don't be silly!
    I never said he was, I said Biden was.

    The US equivalent would have been Bernie Sanders v Trump, with Corbyn on the Sanders bus and Farage at the Trump rallies
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished watching Dopesick today. What a completely depressing show. It really, really gives an insight into American cultural obsessiveness of profit being more important than people and how the profit motive in pharma can result in diabolical results ending in misery and death for millions of people.

    I'm not a great fan of the NHS, yet when I see some of the results of the American system I'd rather have the NHS than what they have where doctors were incentivised to become drug dealers in lab coats, Purdue became a kingpin drug supplier that might fit better in The Wire than real life.

    I have no idea how American society moves on from this when somewhere around 3m Americans are addicted to opioids, and even that's potentially an underestimate, some have suggested that 7-10% of American working age adults have used opioid based drugs recreationally. America is a nation of addicts with no idea how to help these people come out of the other side of addiction and lead normal lives.

    Worse still is that the Sackler family has squirrelled away the billions of dollars they made from addicting millions of people to opiates and not a single one has gone to jail. It's completely disgusting.

    I have been interested in the US opiod epidemic for some years, since reading Dreamland:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic-ebook/dp/B00U19DTS0?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=0810302d-96f5-4404-acf6-bda6173645e5

    Don't think it cannot happen here. It wasn't just the prescription opioids that have been a problem.
    I just don't think the MHRA would allow it to be approved in the same manner with claims of only a 1% addiction rate and it being less addictive than other opioids. Doctors not being able to charge £250 for a prescription also makes it extremely unlikely. As I said, what worries me is drug dealers attempting to do what American ones have done and cut party drugs with fentanyl to create a more reliable customer market for themselves. That's when the state has to step up, legalise the party drugs and go absolutely mental and lock up any residual drug dealers with absolute impunity.
    Yes, that is what I meant about not just being prescription opiods that are the problem.

    30 years ago I was quite liberal about drugs, but I have seen too much of what they do to people and families now. I would favour the Portuguese approach of decrimialisation and treatment, but don't want the government to profit from dealers.
    The cocaine 'dial-a-deal' dealers here (Glasgow) are already cutting with fentanyl. Luckily we have a great history of success dealing with opiodes.

    ...

    Oh.


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.



    It still looks like the Democrats will retain control about 50 50 with the GOP taking the House.

    If both the Senate and House go GOP that is a huge boost for Trump 2024 as he could then get a GOP controlled Congress to overturn even an EC loss unlike January 2021 when the GOP were not in full control
  • My model = very close
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    biggles said:

    According to a Brazilian friend, Bolsonaro would have been easily beaten if the centre-left had managed to put up a younger, fresh-faced, less corrupt candidate than Lula. He reckons Lula should scrape it, but only because Bolsonaro is so poisonous. There's little love for Lula.

    Any sense of there being a clear alternative they might have picked? I have the standard, pretty British, crappy understanding of news in Brazil but it has felt odd that the choice appears to be between a far right nutter who wants to destroy the rain forest; and a man with a “controversial” past.
    I don't know enough to be sure of the detail, but I'm told that there is intense frustration on the centre and left that Lula was the best they could come up with. The view is that Lula has such a strong power base that he couldn't be defeated by any alternative. But obviously in such a vast country it shouldn't be that hard to find a clean pair of hands. My friend tells me the political culture in Brazil is very different from here (he's been here a few years now). The cult of personality prevails. He reckons Boris would have done okay in Brazil.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Off topic, but soon to be relevant in American politics: Tomorrow the Supreme Court takes up affirmative action, the idea that it is OK for colleges and universities to discriminate by race, if they discriminate against the right races. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I think in the UK that is often called "positive discrimination".)

    George Will explains what it at stake, clearly: "The oral arguments the Supreme Court will hear Monday concern two cases that are momentous, even though the desirable outcomes would not prevent the losing parties from continuing reprehensible practices. The cases concern racial preferences in admissions to Harvard and the University of North Carolina. By holding that such preferences violate the Constitution’s guarantee of equal protection of the laws and the 1964 Civil Rights Act’s prohibition of racial discrimination by recipients of federal funding, the court can bolster the wholesome belief held by a large, diverse American majority: that the nation’s laws should be colorblind."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/28/college-racial-discrimination-affirmative-action-supreme-court/

    He's right to say that, no matter how the court rules, the colleges and universities will continue to discriminate, in spite of the illegality and unpoplarity of the practice: "In 1996, Californians voted 54.6 percent that the state “shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to,” any individual or group on the basis of race in public education. In 2020, a much bluer and more diverse California was asked to repeal the 1996 proposition. Instead, Californians endorsed it more emphatically (57.2 percent). A national Pew Research Center poll in April found 74 percent hostile to racial preferences, including Hispanics (68 percent), Asians (63), Blacks (59), Republicans (87) and Democrats (62). The sordid business of divvying us up by race has brought us together in opposition to it."

    In the rest of the newspaper, the editors come out in favor of affirmative action, and hope the Court can find some way to keep it going, and Roland G. Fryer Jr., an economcs professor at Harvard, says he benefited from affirmative action, but hopes his children never do -- and makes an argument for a "data-driven" replacement, where students who have mixed records but potential, are given a chance to realize that potential.

    (Full disclosure: Washington state, like California, has twice voted against affirmative action -- and I was in the majority both times. I beleive it is unconstitutional, illegal, and usually hurts most of those who are "favored" by it.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.

    I expect the Republicans will make gains, but struggle to see much betting value to tempt me.

    America is such a crazy place politically that I struggle to comprehend it now.

  • Counting looking quicker than Rd 1, over 3.1 million votes counted in 20 minutes.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    FYI re the betting for the midterms (which seems to be remarkably absent on this site), not good news for the Democrats

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fewer-young-people-are-voting-early-a-danger-sign-for-democrats/ar-AA13uVyI

    The warning signals are piling up here. My gut feel is the GOP will probably end up getting around 54 in the Senate (NV, AZ, GA eventually + 1 'shock' of NH/WA/CO), which is 8/1. If you don't want that, then the majority is 8/15 - a bit boring but probably safe-ish money given Johnson looks to be consolidating his lead in WI and Fetterman blew up last week in the PA debate so you would only need one win elsewhere.



    I completely agree that the smart bet is on the polls being wrong by 3-4%, but I'd caution that it could be the other way around.

    What I would bet against is a "soggy middle" result: i.e. 50/50 or the Republicans ending up 1-2. That's about 50% of the betting range and I think the last likely outcome.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Soneone shared and excellent site that had the previous election results on it along with the current live results. I failed to bookmark it. Anyone remember.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    If Republicans win the Senate this year, it will be more evidence -- not that any more is needed -- that they do better when he is not on the ballot, or even in office.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    Counting looking quicker than Rd 1, over 3.1 million votes counted in 20 minutes.

    Any exit poll?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Counting looking quicker than Rd 1, over 3.1 million votes counted in 20 minutes.

    Not a patch on Sunderland, though.
  • My model = very close

    Looks good enough for Lula. Just about...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    Lula dropping quite quickly now. 1.26
This discussion has been closed.