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The establishment cost PBers a 250/1 winner – politicalbetting.com

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,577
    The Bank of England is poised to unveil the biggest hike in interest rates for 33 years next week as the central bank continues its efforts to tame inflation.

    The key Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) meeting comes amid warnings that spending cuts and tax hikes under new Prime MinisterRishi Sunak could lead to a deeper and more enduring recession.

    Most economists think that the MPC is likely to rise interest rates by 0.75 percentage points to 3 per cent at the meeting on Thursday November 3.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/business/bank-of-england-interest-rate-rise-cost-of-living-mortgage-b1036234.html
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    Liz Truss’s investment zones “under review” by Gove as he draws red line on environment - Sky News
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,061

    Taz said:

    If we know they are Albanian, why can’t they be deported back to Albania?

    Why should they be ? Most will have genuine reasons for coming here.
    But not a genuine right. Would help if we set up places to claim asylum overseas, rather than trying to shut up shop (and failing).
    I agree, and something I have said here before.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,577

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    1,000 yesterday. Well done, Leaky Sue, you've really got a grip on this.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63446010


    And we’re spending £7m a DAY to put Albanians in hotels. Fucking ridiculous


    Send some to Rwanda and they will stop coming to England
    "Albanians"
    Yes, Albanians


    “Home Office officials told the Home Affairs Committee the nationality of those crossing the Channel was changing, with Albanians now the biggest group“

    Channel migrants: Nearly 1,000 people cross in single day https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63446010
    What does that mean, though? They make up 8%, and it's 7% Somalis, 6% Afghans, 6% Eritreans, etc? They aren't all "Albanians".
    “The Home Affairs Committee was told that "one to two percent" of the entire male population of Albania - around 10,000 men - arrived on small boats this year alone.”
    Which I think even you described as an exaggeration*

    *bollocks
    The source is a UK government official- Dan O'Mahoney, who's the government's clandestine channel threat commander.

    The numbers check out for 18-40 year old Albanian males as a % of the population.

    You can either do the maths yourself, and admit you're wrong, or we can chalk you up as a libtard.

    Your choice.
    The entire population of Albania is 3 million people? 1% of 3 million is 30,000? The article says that about 30,000 have tried to cross the channel in 2021/2022. So for it to work all the crossers have to be Albanian and the entire population of Albania has to me male surely?
    It's 1% of the male population, specifically those aged between 18-40.

    51.7% are male using birth metrics so you get 1.6 million Albanian males (all ages) and it would only take 16,000 men (1% of that overall male population) for the numbers to be correct. And that would include for under 15s and over 65s too, which would be ludicrous, so the threshold is even lower.

    He is right. The rest is nitpicking or denialism to avoid engaging with the problem.
    It’s £350 million on a bus all over again….
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    The Bank of England is poised to unveil the biggest hike in interest rates for 33 years next week as the central bank continues its efforts to tame inflation.

    The key Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) meeting comes amid warnings that spending cuts and tax hikes under new Prime MinisterRishi Sunak could lead to a deeper and more enduring recession.

    Most economists think that the MPC is likely to rise interest rates by 0.75 percentage points to 3 per cent at the meeting on Thursday November 3.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/business/bank-of-england-interest-rate-rise-cost-of-living-mortgage-b1036234.html

    Because inflation expectations have risen since the last meeting?

    Sure, BoE, OK, whatever.
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,478
    Farooq said: "Wait til you find out what happened to life expectancy under Trump."

    Actually, I already know. Obama and Trump share many faults -- both, for example, are extreme narcissists -- so I am not surprised to see them fail in similar ways. (I am proud to say I never voted for either man.)
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,853
    It’s like all the tourists are dutifully taking the path so as to hurl themselves in


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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,966
    DavidL said:

    Tres said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    There was a time when Scotland was like that, with a massive emphasis on education and a huge desire to "get on". It's tragic how far we have fallen away from those cultural values to those of envy and bitterness. I really don't know how it happened but it is in my lifetime. My parents and my wife's parents would recognise and endorse the values you espouse in a heartbeat.
    But Hinduism is growing in Scotland. I don't get it. How can Max's heralds of right living be on the up at the same time it's all going to rack and ruin? At least one of you must be wrong.
    That is nonsense. Hindus are very much on the up because their cultural values give them an edge over the indigenous population but one is not incompatible with the other. In the 20 years we had kids at DHS we saw Hindus go from a tiny minority to a significant presence in the school. Their parents were completely up for sacrifices to ensure that their kids got a proper education. They are the doctors, lawyers and accountants of the next generation. Already they are disproportionately more professional and earn significantly more than the average.

    The problem Scotland has is that there are not enough Hindus, or people who share those values, to carry the rest. And we have a government whose main focus is finding reasons to whine about the Union and how unfair everything is.
    David, you trying to say the small Tory contingent of absolute losers in Holyrood would benefit Scotland in any way shape or form. Better we shoot one foot off rather than let the Tories ahck both feet off and come back for our eyeballs.
    No Malcolm, I have already accepted that the Unionists are no better than the nationalists about this, both focus on blaming someone else and don't accept the consequences of their actions.

    I am bemoaning the lack of drive in Scotland, the ambition to succeed and build a new business, to get wealthy. People like that are no longer admired in our society as they once were. They are regarded as exploiters who think that they are somehow better than the rest and, to the extent that they do succeed, should be paying a lot more in taxes.

    It is a major problem for us, whether as part of the UK or as an independent nation. The generations of Scots who went out there and changed the world are a distant memory indeed. We need to rediscover our Calvinist work ethic without the loony religion that came with it.
    Not a Grand Theft Auto fan?

    Actually no I am not but my son played it and the graphics were impressive. But the company that makes it is tiny compared to the companies we once had in Dundee where several thousand would work in a single jute works. We need companies that create jobs and opportunities for our society and they are thin on the ground.
    I expect you are nostalgic for the good old days.

    They fairly mak ye wark for your ten and nine.
    https://www.springthyme.co.uk/1030/cd30_13.htm
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,380
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    If we know they are Albanian, why can’t they be deported back to Albania?

    Why should they be ? Most will have genuine reasons for coming here.
    But not a genuine right. Would help if we set up places to claim asylum overseas, rather than trying to shut up shop (and failing).
    I agree, and something I have said here before.
    There's a huge opportunity for Labour to outflank the Tories here and win themselves 15-20 years in power here by solving this problem.

    Are they smart enough to take it?
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Leon said:

    It’s like all the tourists are dutifully taking the path so as to hurl themselves in


    If you're standing at the other end of the path, I can understand why
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,977

    Bloody namby pamby Tofo-eating wokeraty remoaners. Just because the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth and Development and no getting hacked by the KGB Office got her phone hacked by the KGB.

    There is literally no story here.

    Every senior politician gets their phones hacked. We do it to the Russians as well.

    And the discovery should not have been disclosed to the public. Why would you do that?

    The only issue is Ms Truss’s apparent carelessness when it comes to security. But there would be little to be gained from kicking her at this point. She’s done.

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Bloody namby pamby Tofo-eating wokeraty remoaners. Just because the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth and Development and no getting hacked by the KGB Office got her phone hacked by the KGB.

    There is literally no story here.

    Every senior politician gets their phones hacked. We do it to the Russians as well.

    And the discovery should not have been disclosed to the public. Why would you do that?

    The only issue is Ms Truss’s apparent carelessness when it comes to security. But there would be little to be gained from kicking her at this point. She’s done.

    If the public shouldn't know these things, why are you telling us?
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    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339
    Anyone found a good source to give a sense of the feeling in Brazil, or indeed speak good enough Portuguese themselves?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,853
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s worth repeating

    £7m a DAY putting dinghy people in hotels. That’s £2.5 BILLION a year. Absolutely insane. We cannot afford this. We are broke. It’s time to grow a pain of cullions, tell the lefty lawyers to fuck off, leave the ECHR, change the law on asylum, send these gaming gangsters back home to Tirana

    If you Google "problems with asylum" you will get lots of hits from NGO, UN and think-tank sites all saying how it isn't really a problem or we don't make it easy enough/take enough of them.

    When people talk about libtard establishment conspiracy (which is overdone) this is the sort of thing that gives credence to it.

    And it is also self harming. Sweden and Denmark now have far right parties in government, or near it, precisely because liberal elites purposely ignored or diminished a problem like this for far too long

    The UK is not immune to this law of politics. Eventually the voters will enable a party that WILL tackle such a problem. And not in a way that pleases liberals

    Why not, for once, get ahead of the curve?
    Do you really think with FPTP that is likely here ? Surely it’s more likely the top two parties will get the majority of the seats but simply lose vote share.
    No, what happens is that a fringe party exploits the issue until they are getting 10% of the vote and deeply damaging one of the main parties. Then the main party is forced to adopt the policy of the fringe party, to see off the threat

    UKIP and Brexit is the classic example, of course
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,577
    edited October 2022
    The Pelosi attack may not be the convenient “MAGA nutter” on first sight:

    The media are portraying the suspect in the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband as a man fundamentally driven by right-wing ideology. But it's obvious to anyone who looks that what drove David DePape to violence was drug-induced paranoid psychosis.

    https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/1586372835844333568
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    Bloody namby pamby Tofo-eating wokeraty remoaners. Just because the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth and Development and no getting hacked by the KGB Office got her phone hacked by the KGB.

    There is literally no story here.

    Every senior politician gets their phones hacked. We do it to the Russians as well.

    And the discovery should not have been disclosed to the public. Why would you do that?

    The only issue is Ms Truss’s apparent carelessness when it comes to security. But there would be little to be gained from kicking her at this point. She’s done.

    Liz Truss should face prosecution. We now know from her biography that she regarded ignoring Civil Service advice and breaching official protocols as nothing more than a jolly wheeze. This is negligence of the highest order. Anyone else would be looking at a prison term.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    The Pelosi attack may not be the convenient “MAGA nutter” on first sight:

    The media are portraying the suspect in the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband as a man fundamentally driven by right-wing ideology. But it's obvious to anyone who looks that what drove David DePape to violence was drug-induced paranoid psychosis.

    https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/1586372835844333568

    What, at this point, is the difference?

    Astonishingly (or it should be), it is not hard to find Republicans making threats of violence to Nancy Pelosi.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,966
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s worth repeating

    £7m a DAY putting dinghy people in hotels. That’s £2.5 BILLION a year. Absolutely insane. We cannot afford this. We are broke. It’s time to grow a pain of cullions, tell the lefty lawyers to fuck off, leave the ECHR, change the law on asylum, send these gaming gangsters back home to Tirana

    If you Google "problems with asylum" you will get lots of hits from NGO, UN and think-tank sites all saying how it isn't really a problem or we don't make it easy enough/take enough of them.

    When people talk about libtard establishment conspiracy (which is overdone) this is the sort of thing that gives credence to it.

    And it is also self harming. Sweden and Denmark now have far right parties in government, or near it, precisely because liberal elites purposely ignored or diminished a problem like this for far too long

    The UK is not immune to this law of politics. Eventually the voters will enable a party that WILL tackle such a problem. And not in a way that pleases liberals

    Why not, for once, get ahead of the curve?
    Do you really think with FPTP that is likely here ? Surely it’s more likely the top two parties will get the majority of the seats but simply lose vote share.
    No, what happens is that a fringe party exploits the issue until they are getting 10% of the vote and deeply damaging one of the main parties. Then the main party is forced to adopt the policy of the fringe party, to see off the threat

    UKIP and Brexit is the classic example, of course
    The main party could always call the extremists’ bluff, of course.
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    Bloody namby pamby Tofo-eating wokeraty remoaners. Just because the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth and Development and no getting hacked by the KGB Office got her phone hacked by the KGB.

    There is literally no story here.

    Every senior politician gets their phones hacked. We do it to the Russians as well.

    And the discovery should not have been disclosed to the public. Why would you do that?

    The only issue is Ms Truss’s apparent carelessness when it comes to security. But there would be little to be gained from kicking her at this point. She’s done.

    Liz Truss should face prosecution. We now know from her biography that she regarded ignoring Civil Service advice and breaching official protocols as nothing more than a jolly wheeze. This is negligence of the highest order. Anyone else would be looking at a prison term.
    Section Two of the Official Secrets Act does have a slightly higher bar for prison time than that….
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Liz Truss’s investment zones “under review” by Gove as he draws red line on environment - Sky News

    Giving in to RSPB England is wise.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    The Pelosi attack may not be the convenient “MAGA nutter” on first sight:

    The media are portraying the suspect in the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband as a man fundamentally driven by right-wing ideology. But it's obvious to anyone who looks that what drove David DePape to violence was drug-induced paranoid psychosis.

    https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/1586372835844333568

    What, at this point, is the difference?

    Astonishingly (or it should be), it is not hard to find Republicans making threats of violence to Nancy Pelosi.
    Quite. Extreme political ideologies influence the mentally ill as well as the mentally well. The boundary between "MAGA nutter" and "nutter who happens to hate Democrats" is not really so clear.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    Farooq said:

    The Pelosi attack may not be the convenient “MAGA nutter” on first sight:

    The media are portraying the suspect in the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband as a man fundamentally driven by right-wing ideology. But it's obvious to anyone who looks that what drove David DePape to violence was drug-induced paranoid psychosis.

    https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/1586372835844333568

    What, at this point, is the difference?

    Astonishingly (or it should be), it is not hard to find Republicans making threats of violence to Nancy Pelosi.
    Quite. Extreme political ideologies influence the mentally ill as well as the mentally well. The boundary between "MAGA nutter" and "nutter who happens to hate Democrats" is not really so clear.
    Surprised to see Carlotta fall for it too.
    She is usually more artful.
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    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,136

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
    This is an enormous dead cat. I'll wager there was nothing national security related, just some *ahem* and some 'apres Boris, c'est moi'
    Its been tweaked to achieve a goal
    You are so desperate for this not to be a real and substantial story as it clearly is, you are replying to your own posts about it.

    All stories are from sources so what is your point?
    I meant to reply to Luckyguy but there you go, im a tool.
    My point is if this was being suppressed via D Notice by Case then it wouldn't now be out, and if the info retrieved was of blackmail/national security level it absolutely eould be under D notice. That not being the case and a mystery 'source' briefing the Mail then its clearly a much lesser issue being used for a purpose - probably to distract from Suella issues.
    There is no way a source is annonymously briefing the Mail on something with massive national security implication and the government not be in utter panic and 'blackout everything to do with this' mode.
    The opposition also would be very careful if there were proper, serious implications.
    Im not 'desperate for it not to be a big story', im trying to identify the actual story/issue
    BBC

    "There are immensely important national security issues raised by an attack like this by a hostile state which will have been taken extremely seriously by our intelligence and security agencies," said shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper.

    "There are also serious security questions around why and how this information has been leaked or released right now which must also be urgently investigated."

    The Mail on Sunday reported agents suspected of working for Russia had been responsible for the alleged hacking, citing unnamed sources, but the BBC has not been able to verify this."

    That last sentence implies to me that the BBC *has* independently verified the other elements of the story.
    Well, yes, the Foreign secretary's phone bring hacked by 'whoever' is a serious matter, but my thought is that now the story is 'out' security services must have concluded national security was not compromised or they wouldnt be allowing speculative journalism like this (a D notice or equivalent would surely apply?)
    So we are left with Liz being embarrassed and the story deflecting from Suella, with the wider implication being a 'werent Liz and Boris and co chaotic and rubbish and embarassing? Thank God Rishi is here' or at least thats what they want.....
    If im reading this wrong im reading it wrong but there doesnt seem to me to be the urgency from anyone opposition or govt or press that would suggest this was a major breach of national security, its Liz's cringingly embarassing messages being read by 'someone'
    I may be wrong but thats my reading of it.
    I think it is much better for the opposition to raise this as a broad narrative of incompetence and questionable national security.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,853

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s worth repeating

    £7m a DAY putting dinghy people in hotels. That’s £2.5 BILLION a year. Absolutely insane. We cannot afford this. We are broke. It’s time to grow a pain of cullions, tell the lefty lawyers to fuck off, leave the ECHR, change the law on asylum, send these gaming gangsters back home to Tirana

    If you Google "problems with asylum" you will get lots of hits from NGO, UN and think-tank sites all saying how it isn't really a problem or we don't make it easy enough/take enough of them.

    When people talk about libtard establishment conspiracy (which is overdone) this is the sort of thing that gives credence to it.

    And it is also self harming. Sweden and Denmark now have far right parties in government, or near it, precisely because liberal elites purposely ignored or diminished a problem like this for far too long

    The UK is not immune to this law of politics. Eventually the voters will enable a party that WILL tackle such a problem. And not in a way that pleases liberals

    Why not, for once, get ahead of the curve?
    Do you really think with FPTP that is likely here ? Surely it’s more likely the top two parties will get the majority of the seats but simply lose vote share.
    No, what happens is that a fringe party exploits the issue until they are getting 10% of the vote and deeply damaging one of the main parties. Then the main party is forced to adopt the policy of the fringe party, to see off the threat

    UKIP and Brexit is the classic example, of course
    The main party could always call the extremists’ bluff, of course.
    How does that work? That’s not how it works

    The fringe party - by gaining a steady 10% of the vote - deprives the main party of many seats at an election. That’a not a bluff you can “call”
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    Liz Truss’s investment zones “under review” by Gove as he draws red line on environment - Sky News

    Giving in to RSPB England is wise.
    In terms of “supply side reforms”, the Tories seem to have given up on fracking, planning reform, and now the investment zones.

    Now, I’m skeptical of much of this, but I must admit I’m VERY depressed that the UK has just decided to press the “decline” button because everything else looks too scary.
  • Options

    NEW THREAD

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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s worth repeating

    £7m a DAY putting dinghy people in hotels. That’s £2.5 BILLION a year. Absolutely insane. We cannot afford this. We are broke. It’s time to grow a pain of cullions, tell the lefty lawyers to fuck off, leave the ECHR, change the law on asylum, send these gaming gangsters back home to Tirana

    If you Google "problems with asylum" you will get lots of hits from NGO, UN and think-tank sites all saying how it isn't really a problem or we don't make it easy enough/take enough of them.

    When people talk about libtard establishment conspiracy (which is overdone) this is the sort of thing that gives credence to it.

    And it is also self harming. Sweden and Denmark now have far right parties in government, or near it, precisely because liberal elites purposely ignored or diminished a problem like this for far too long

    The UK is not immune to this law of politics. Eventually the voters will enable a party that WILL tackle such a problem. And not in a way that pleases liberals

    Why not, for once, get ahead of the curve?
    Do you really think with FPTP that is likely here ? Surely it’s more likely the top two parties will get the majority of the seats but simply lose vote share.
    No, what happens is that a fringe party exploits the issue until they are getting 10% of the vote and deeply damaging one of the main parties. Then the main party is forced to adopt the policy of the fringe party, to see off the threat

    UKIP and Brexit is the classic example, of course
    The main party could always call the extremists’ bluff, of course.
    How does that work? That’s not how it works

    The fringe party - by gaining a steady 10% of the vote - deprives the main party of many seats at an election. That’a not a bluff you can “call”
    Sure it is. You make the case for what you believe in and you win or lose on that basis.
    If your values are flexible then sure, you can change your ideology. If your values are better defined you fight your ground.

    Personally I prefer the latter type of politician. I'd rather lose an election than win on a program I disagreed with. Either way, it's a choice.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Betting Post

    F1: Bottas at 3.5 to be winner without the big 6 looks good. Ladbrokes.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s worth repeating

    £7m a DAY putting dinghy people in hotels. That’s £2.5 BILLION a year. Absolutely insane. We cannot afford this. We are broke. It’s time to grow a pain of cullions, tell the lefty lawyers to fuck off, leave the ECHR, change the law on asylum, send these gaming gangsters back home to Tirana

    If you Google "problems with asylum" you will get lots of hits from NGO, UN and think-tank sites all saying how it isn't really a problem or we don't make it easy enough/take enough of them.

    When people talk about libtard establishment conspiracy (which is overdone) this is the sort of thing that gives credence to it.

    And it is also self harming. Sweden and Denmark now have far right parties in government, or near it, precisely because liberal elites purposely ignored or diminished a problem like this for far too long

    The UK is not immune to this law of politics. Eventually the voters will enable a party that WILL tackle such a problem. And not in a way that pleases liberals

    Why not, for once, get ahead of the curve?
    Do you really think with FPTP that is likely here ? Surely it’s more likely the top two parties will get the majority of the seats but simply lose vote share.
    No, what happens is that a fringe party exploits the issue until they are getting 10% of the vote and deeply damaging one of the main parties. Then the main party is forced to adopt the policy of the fringe party, to see off the threat

    UKIP and Brexit is the classic example, of course
    The main party could always call the extremists’ bluff, of course.
    How does that work? That’s not how it works

    The fringe party - by gaining a steady 10% of the vote - deprives the main party of many seats at an election. That’a not a bluff you can “call”
    Sure it is. You make the case for what you believe in and you win or lose on that basis.
    If your values are flexible then sure, you can change your ideology. If your values are better defined you fight your ground.

    Personally I prefer the latter type of politician. I'd rather lose an election than win on a program I disagreed with. Either way, it's a choice.
    Theresa May tried to do this over social care costs, and ultimately lost her job.

    Which is not to disagree with you, but the current media set up is profoundly hostile to such things.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,966
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s worth repeating

    £7m a DAY putting dinghy people in hotels. That’s £2.5 BILLION a year. Absolutely insane. We cannot afford this. We are broke. It’s time to grow a pain of cullions, tell the lefty lawyers to fuck off, leave the ECHR, change the law on asylum, send these gaming gangsters back home to Tirana

    If you Google "problems with asylum" you will get lots of hits from NGO, UN and think-tank sites all saying how it isn't really a problem or we don't make it easy enough/take enough of them.

    When people talk about libtard establishment conspiracy (which is overdone) this is the sort of thing that gives credence to it.

    And it is also self harming. Sweden and Denmark now have far right parties in government, or near it, precisely because liberal elites purposely ignored or diminished a problem like this for far too long

    The UK is not immune to this law of politics. Eventually the voters will enable a party that WILL tackle such a problem. And not in a way that pleases liberals

    Why not, for once, get ahead of the curve?
    Do you really think with FPTP that is likely here ? Surely it’s more likely the top two parties will get the majority of the seats but simply lose vote share.
    No, what happens is that a fringe party exploits the issue until they are getting 10% of the vote and deeply damaging one of the main parties. Then the main party is forced to adopt the policy of the fringe party, to see off the threat

    UKIP and Brexit is the classic example, of course
    The main party could always call the extremists’ bluff, of course.
    How does that work? That’s not how it works

    The fringe party - by gaining a steady 10% of the vote - deprives the main party of many seats at an election. That’a not a bluff you can “call”
    They infiltrate the main party from within ,e.g. Labour - Corbynites, Tories - ERG, SNP - Stonewall.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,068
    ...

    Bloody namby pamby Tofo-eating wokeraty remoaners. Just because the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth and Development and no getting hacked by the KGB Office got her phone hacked by the KGB.

    There is literally no story here.

    Every senior politician gets their phones hacked. We do it to the Russians as well.

    And the discovery should not have been disclosed to the public. Why would you do that?

    The only issue is Ms Truss’s apparent carelessness when it comes to security. But there would be little to be gained from kicking her at this point. She’s done.

    Liz Truss should face prosecution. We now know from her biography that she regarded ignoring Civil Service advice and breaching official protocols as nothing more than a jolly wheeze. This is negligence of the highest order. Anyone else would be looking at a prison term.
    I remember way back in the days of the last Labour Government if a military attache lost a CD Rom containing classified information on the Clapham Omnibus or on the back seat of a Royal Navy staff car, which was later found abandoned on bricks in the Elephant and Castle, Conservative front bench Shadow Ministers were quite rightly demanding the heads of a Secretary of State or two. Now it seems it's OK over the last year or three, for the FS or HS to be grade A security risks.

    As you were.
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    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s worth repeating

    £7m a DAY putting dinghy people in hotels. That’s £2.5 BILLION a year. Absolutely insane. We cannot afford this. We are broke. It’s time to grow a pain of cullions, tell the lefty lawyers to fuck off, leave the ECHR, change the law on asylum, send these gaming gangsters back home to Tirana

    If you Google "problems with asylum" you will get lots of hits from NGO, UN and think-tank sites all saying how it isn't really a problem or we don't make it easy enough/take enough of them.

    When people talk about libtard establishment conspiracy (which is overdone) this is the sort of thing that gives credence to it.

    And it is also self harming. Sweden and Denmark now have far right parties in government, or near it, precisely because liberal elites purposely ignored or diminished a problem like this for far too long

    The UK is not immune to this law of politics. Eventually the voters will enable a party that WILL tackle such a problem. And not in a way that pleases liberals

    Why not, for once, get ahead of the curve?
    It's the Tories who have been governing the UK for the last 12 years.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,738
    edited October 2022

    The Pelosi attack may not be the convenient “MAGA nutter” on first sight:

    The media are portraying the suspect in the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband as a man fundamentally driven by right-wing ideology. But it's obvious to anyone who looks that what drove David DePape to violence was drug-induced paranoid psychosis.

    https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/1586372835844333568

    Desperate spin by shellen.

    Why would DePape decide to go after Pelosi? . Are we supposed to believe he just randomly chose her?

    His postings do show he was a conspiracy theorist and Trump supporter who believed the big lie and thought journalists who refused to push the big lie should be dragged into the street and shot .

    That’s not to say he wasn’t unhinged but there’s a desperate attempt by the GOP death cult to try and deflect from the fact they are partly culpable for what happened .
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,208

    The Pelosi attack may not be the convenient “MAGA nutter” on first sight:

    The media are portraying the suspect in the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband as a man fundamentally driven by right-wing ideology. But it's obvious to anyone who looks that what drove David DePape to violence was drug-induced paranoid psychosis.

    https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/1586372835844333568

    there it is, the mental health klaxon
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,061

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    If we know they are Albanian, why can’t they be deported back to Albania?

    Why should they be ? Most will have genuine reasons for coming here.
    But not a genuine right. Would help if we set up places to claim asylum overseas, rather than trying to shut up shop (and failing).
    I agree, and something I have said here before.
    There's a huge opportunity for Labour to outflank the Tories here and win themselves 15-20 years in power here by solving this problem.

    Are they smart enough to take it?
    Unlikely.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,977
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Disappointing lack of attractive women. Your standards are slipping. :)
    It’s too frigging cold to think about sex

    Impressive place. Two mighty tectonic plates ripping apart - creating these deep dark lava rock ravines, where they used to hurl witches. Perfect
    The only place in the world where a tectonic plate boundary is above a hot spot. Elsewhere, @Leon, you would be standing on the ocean floor.
    And the only place which is also: an incredibly ancient Parliament, an execution ground, the site of a national religious conversion, the witch burning field, and a sacred pool where incestuous
    girls were put in weighted sacks and thrown in the geothermal water to drown

    Wouldn’t you boil before you drown?
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,977

    Maybe it's just me. But when I worked for the Civil Service, having signed the Official Secrets Act, I didn't find it at all difficult to make a clear distinction between my work phone and work email, and my private phone and private email.

    It's really not difficult, unless a) you're a bit thick, or b) you're willfully breaking the rules. And if a) and/or b) apply, you shouldn't be in the job anyway.

    The subjects overlap though in a way that yours probably didn’t

    Let’s say the PM is chatting to the FS and Chief Whip about the political aspects of a development. They are doing it on their personal phones because you are not allowed to use governments devices for party matters. And they accidentally across the line forgetting which device they are on?

    Perhaps we should soften the rules on senior ministers using work phones for party matters? Top up Short funding if you think it creates an unfair advantage
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,977
    Leon said:

    The peculiar non-emergence of The Finland Rumour is perhaps now explained

    It was pretty obvious it had a D-notice on it
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    1,000 yesterday. Well done, Leaky Sue, you've really got a grip on this.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63446010


    And we’re spending £7m a DAY to put Albanians in hotels. Fucking ridiculous


    Send some to Rwanda and they will stop coming to England
    "Albanians"
    Yes, Albanians


    “Home Office officials told the Home Affairs Committee the nationality of those crossing the Channel was changing, with Albanians now the biggest group“

    Channel migrants: Nearly 1,000 people cross in single day https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63446010
    What does that mean, though? They make up 8%, and it's 7% Somalis, 6% Afghans, 6% Eritreans, etc? They aren't all "Albanians".
    “The Home Affairs Committee was told that "one to two percent" of the entire male population of Albania - around 10,000 men - arrived on small boats this year alone.”
    Which I think even you described as an exaggeration*

    *bollocks
    The source is a UK government official- Dan O'Mahoney, who's the government's clandestine channel threat commander.

    Why hasn't this fucker with the ridiculous job title been sacked?
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,977
    franklyn said:

    Much to my astonishment and delight, my book 'LIFELINE' has just won in this year's British Medical Association medical book awards ('Good Medical Practice' category).
    The book analyses the reason's for the collapse of the NHS, and given how much health has become a political 'hot potato' might be of interest to readers of pb.com. Some of the book will make you laugh and some will reduce you to tears of rage. There were a few occasions when I was writing when I had to stop because I was so upset.
    It's available on Amazon, Waterstones, etc.

    Well done!

  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,977
    Leon said:

    That’s worth repeating

    £7m a DAY putting dinghy people in hotels. That’s £2.5 BILLION a year. Absolutely insane. We cannot afford this. We are broke. It’s time to grow a pain of cullions, tell the lefty lawyers to fuck off, leave the ECHR, change the law on asylum, send these gaming gangsters back home to Tirana

    Extraordinary that we are actually paying rack rate. Unless we aren’t and some journalist has actually just calculated the amount that rack rate would have cost
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,977

    If we know they are Albanian, why can’t they be deported back to Albania?

    I was told on pb because they claim asylum based on blood feuds etc.
    Genuine question - I thought asylum was meant to protect against oppression *by state actors*

    “Some nutter wants to kill me” would give grounds for asylum far wider than originally intended
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    1,000 yesterday. Well done, Leaky Sue, you've really got a grip on this.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63446010


    And we’re spending £7m a DAY to put Albanians in hotels. Fucking ridiculous


    Send some to Rwanda and they will stop coming to England
    "Albanians"
    Yes, Albanians


    “Home Office officials told the Home Affairs Committee the nationality of those crossing the Channel was changing, with Albanians now the biggest group“

    Channel migrants: Nearly 1,000 people cross in single day https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63446010
    What does that mean, though? They make up 8%, and it's 7% Somalis, 6% Afghans, 6% Eritreans, etc? They aren't all "Albanians".
    “The Home Affairs Committee was told that "one to two percent" of the entire male population of Albania - around 10,000 men - arrived on small boats this year alone.”
    Which I think even you described as an exaggeration*

    *bollocks
    The source is a UK government official- Dan O'Mahoney, who's the government's clandestine channel threat commander.

    Why hasn't this fucker with the ridiculous job title been sacked?
    And replace him with whom?

    His hands are tied. All he can do in the job is ensure boats don't land unescorted.

    He can do nothing else.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,977
    Farooq said:

    Bloody namby pamby Tofo-eating wokeraty remoaners. Just because the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth and Development and no getting hacked by the KGB Office got her phone hacked by the KGB.

    There is literally no story here.

    Every senior politician gets their phones hacked. We do it to the Russians as well.

    And the discovery should not have been disclosed to the public. Why would you do that?

    The only issue is Ms Truss’s apparent carelessness when it comes to security. But there would be little to be gained from kicking her at this point. She’s done.

    If the public shouldn't know these things, why are you telling us?
    I’m not telling you anything that a reasonably intelligent member of the public can’t figure out for themselves… oh…
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    1,000 yesterday. Well done, Leaky Sue, you've really got a grip on this.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63446010


    And we’re spending £7m a DAY to put Albanians in hotels. Fucking ridiculous


    Send some to Rwanda and they will stop coming to England
    "Albanians"
    Yes, Albanians


    “Home Office officials told the Home Affairs Committee the nationality of those crossing the Channel was changing, with Albanians now the biggest group“

    Channel migrants: Nearly 1,000 people cross in single day https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63446010
    What does that mean, though? They make up 8%, and it's 7% Somalis, 6% Afghans, 6% Eritreans, etc? They aren't all "Albanians".
    “The Home Affairs Committee was told that "one to two percent" of the entire male population of Albania - around 10,000 men - arrived on small boats this year alone.”
    Which I think even you described as an exaggeration*

    *bollocks
    The source is a UK government official- Dan O'Mahoney, who's the government's clandestine channel threat commander.

    Why hasn't this fucker with the ridiculous job title been sacked?
    The clue is in his comedy surname.
    One step removed from Captain Darling.
This discussion has been closed.