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The establishment cost PBers a 250/1 winner – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 3 in General
The establishment cost PBers a 250/1 winner – politicalbetting.com

Side note – this is the same Cabinet Secretary who has decided 'Leaky Sue' isn't worth investigating?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    edited October 30
    Good morning all.

    Astonishing story.

    @TSE is right to be so angry. Like Braverman's appointment, this is a disgrace.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    edited October 30
    I don't usually pay much attention to the Daily Mirror or the Sunday version. In fact this is the first time I've ever quoted a story from them. But this is serious.

    Rishi Sunak accepted cash (£141,000) from fossil fuel investors in campaign to become PM

    Donations from supporters with links to oil and gas helped fund new Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's Ready4Rishi leadership campaign - as he says he's too busy to attend the COP27 climate summit in Egypt

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-accepted-cash-fossil-28361452

    I'm afraid that I'm beginning to think Rishi is yet another sleaze bag.

    When the press start getting their knives out, which they will, his ratings will plummet. This COP27 boycott is pretty disgusting in the context.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    Next time Andrew Sullivan is on the BBC telling us about left wing domination of US media, they might ask him about the Fox reaction to the Pelosi story.
    And the lack of interest of some of the 'liberal' media.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jesseltaylor/status/1586496754408644608
    Pretty sure the NYT will end up having devoted more time and resources to Sarah Huckabee Sanders being asked to leave a restaurant than an assassination attempt on the Speaker of the House
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    Note also that the net cost to the UK of Truss's month and a half in office was probably in the order of several billion pounds.

    So it's not just those with the 250/1 bets who lost out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042
    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    Is he running for Pope?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    Is he running for Pope?
    I certainly think the Republican movement as a whole need to get themselves off the pills.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604
    Wake up. Yet more Tory nonsense. 🙄 At least they’re better than the GOP for the time being.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855
    Jonathan said:

    Wake up. Yet more Tory nonsense. 🙄 At least they’re better than the GOP for the time being.

    That is a bar so low even a limbo dancing ant couldn’t get under it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620
    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    Perhaps he just wants to put a cap on it.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,855
    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    Does Kemp actually say he is open to it? Or mention the "next session"?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,930
    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604
    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855
    edited October 30
    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    You are I fear rather assuming he thinks women should be allowed to do so.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,670
    Betting Post

    F1: backed Hamilton to lead lap 1 at 5.25.

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2022/10/mexico-pre-race-2022.html
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    And published at the time in Finland, yet never made its way back into British politics in any way? No pointed questions from the opposition or cryptic comments in the media; no journalists either in the UK or elsewhere in the world willing to touch the story? Amazing.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    IanB2 said:

    And published at the time in Finland, yet never made its way back into British politics in any way? No pointed questions from the opposition or cryptic comments in the media; no journalists either in the UK or elsewhere in the world willing to touch the story? Amazing.

    So it IS the Finland story? Serious but defintely not the sexy scandal some seemed to be implying.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,855

    IanB2 said:

    And published at the time in Finland, yet never made its way back into British politics in any way? No pointed questions from the opposition or cryptic comments in the media; no journalists either in the UK or elsewhere in the world willing to touch the story? Amazing.

    So it IS the Finland story? Serious but defintely not the sexy scandal some seemed to be implying.
    Still waiting for a link to anything published in Finland
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Heathener said:

    I don't usually pay much attention to the Daily Mirror or the Sunday version. In fact this is the first time I've ever quoted a story from them. But this is serious.

    Rishi Sunak accepted cash (£141,000) from fossil fuel investors in campaign to become PM

    Donations from supporters with links to oil and gas helped fund new Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's Ready4Rishi leadership campaign - as he says he's too busy to attend the COP27 climate summit in Egypt

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-accepted-cash-fossil-28361452

    I'm afraid that I'm beginning to think Rishi is yet another sleaze bag.

    When the press start getting their knives out, which they will, his ratings will plummet. This COP27 boycott is pretty disgusting in the context.

    "It includes £15,000 from ex-Tory treasurer Lord Michael Farmer, a hedge fund trader with shareholdings in Royal Dutch Shell and BP."

    "And two businessmen linked to a wealth management fund that invests in the oil and gas sectors made donations of £30,000."

    A pathetic non-story, because who doesn't have shares in BP? You do if you have a pension or a ftse100 tracker or a mainstream investment trust or quite possibly a direct holding.

    My contempt for a press which publishes this sort of drivel and simultaneously sits on stories about Truss is unbounded.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    pigeon said:

    ping said:

    Sorry to be critical, @tse but I think you trivialise the issue, linking it to your 250/1 bet.

    I agree with your main point, though. A complete disaster for our national security.

    Why do the tories not take this shit seriously?

    The Tories take precisely one thing seriously: filling the pockets of themselves and their key backers (elderly homeowners in Southern England, and the very rich) by fucking over the rest of the population. The next round of cuts to services and rising taxes (targeted mainly at incomes, not assets,) is already on the way.

    The latest, highly plausible, rumour doing the rounds is that they plan to extend the freeze on income tax thresholds for an additional two years, so as to try to turn as many people of working age as possible into higher rate income tax payers. I'm frankly astonished that they've not unpicked the Truss repeal of the Health and Social Care Levy to boot - although I imagine that NI rises will also be back, in one form or another, before very much longer.

    The Conservative Party exists for one purpose and one purpose only: the redistribution of wealth upwards. What have, amongst other things, defence, security, the environment and schooling to do with that? Why should we expect them to care about any of it? They don't. End of story.
    Spot on. The only reason this is not more widely understood among the wider population is the compliant media. Much of the media is as corrupt as the Conservative & Unionist Party.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
    Do you really believe that a law to ban contraceptives will be enacted in the USA? Really? I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU more likely.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    The Sunday Rawnsley, via damp Greenwich just a stone’s throw from Loopy’s London pad:

    At the most recent meeting of the shadow cabinet, Sir Keir Starmer warned his colleagues to expect a significant Tory bounce in the polls…. says one senior Labour frontbencher: “I think we’ll get back to where we were four or five months ago.” If she’s correct, Tory morale ought to improve and some Labour people will get windy. [And] “We’ve got to be careful that we don’t look like we’re willing him to fail.”

    The shrewder people in Labour’s ranks grasp that their framing of Mr Sunak can’t be identical to the narratives they told about feckless Mr Johnson and reckless Ms Truss. The new Tory leader is a different character and Labour won’t do itself any favours by pretending otherwise. [Labour does] not want to repeat what happened under Neil Kinnock in the early 1990s when Labour thought it had mastered how to beat Margaret Thatcher only then to founder when the Tories replaced her with John Major.

    Character attacks can backfire by negatively defining the attacker. Lambasting him as Rishi the Rich will be a bad idea for Sir Keir’s party if it makes Labour seem anti-aspirational and hostile to success. Labour strategists say that what comes up in their focus groups is “everything from the designer clothes to the expensive coffee cup to not knowing how to use a debit card in a petrol station”.

    A critical priority for Labour is to thwart Mr Sunak’s attempts to represent himself as a new broom. “We cannot possibly allow him to present himself as the change we need,” says a senior member of Sir Keir’s team. “We’ve got to pin the Tory record on him.”

    [Economic] Misery made in the Kremlin. Misery made in Downing Street. There you have the rival stories. Which of these narratives proves most compelling to the public will, more than anything else, determine who prevails.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,154
    edited October 30
    the 250/1 missed bet angle is an aside and only worth a footnote ( you pay your money and take your chances especially in political betting ) but this is a really serious story especially given the danger the world faces with the Russia/Ukraine dispute.
    This is so serious there surely has to be a criminal investigation regarding the Official Secrets Act. I am sure recklessly handling top secret information is an offence even if not deliberately leaking it, as is covering up such leaks.
    Why are the current crop of top politicians so ignorant of these rules ? Is it that they were promoted too quickly and lost the sense of importance of these roles and that its not the individual in these roles that is important but the role itself?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,220
    Mr Eagles,

    Forgive me for having a few doubts. The Mail on Sunday is a newspaper you trust? Really? Where are the details that can be checked? It makes good copy, and no newspaper would turn it down, but when did you become so gullible.

    Liz Truss was never my idea of an ideal PM, but a pinch of salt is required sometimes with our press. Next, you'll be believing that Putin always tells the truth.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    pigeon said:

    ping said:

    Sorry to be critical, @tse but I think you trivialise the issue, linking it to your 250/1 bet.

    I agree with your main point, though. A complete disaster for our national security.

    Why do the tories not take this shit seriously?

    The Tories take precisely one thing seriously: filling the pockets of themselves and their key backers (elderly homeowners in Southern England, and the very rich) by fucking over the rest of the population. The next round of cuts to services and rising taxes (targeted mainly at incomes, not assets,) is already on the way.

    The latest, highly plausible, rumour doing the rounds is that they plan to extend the freeze on income tax thresholds for an additional two years, so as to try to turn as many people of working age as possible into higher rate income tax payers. I'm frankly astonished that they've not unpicked the Truss repeal of the Health and Social Care Levy to boot - although I imagine that NI rises will also be back, in one form or another, before very much longer.

    The Conservative Party exists for one purpose and one purpose only: the redistribution of wealth upwards. What have, amongst other things, defence, security, the environment and schooling to do with that? Why should we expect them to care about any of it? They don't. End of story.
    Extending the freeze is politically clever, because it takes money away from people in the future that they won’t notice because it’s a freeze, yet enables the government to have more spending room right now. Economic and fiscal cleverness are another matters.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808

    IanB2 said:

    And published at the time in Finland, yet never made its way back into British politics in any way? No pointed questions from the opposition or cryptic comments in the media; no journalists either in the UK or elsewhere in the world willing to touch the story? Amazing.

    So it IS the Finland story? Serious but defintely not the sexy scandal some seemed to be implying.
    That surely depends on what kind of messages were on her phone?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    "It cost PBers a win" is not just irrelevant but downright weird. Get a grip.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,176
    pigeon said:

    ping said:

    Sorry to be critical, @tse but I think you trivialise the issue, linking it to your 250/1 bet.

    I agree with your main point, though. A complete disaster for our national security.

    Why do the tories not take this shit seriously?

    The Tories take precisely one thing seriously: filling the pockets of themselves and their key backers (elderly homeowners in Southern England, and the very rich) by fucking over the rest of the population. The next round of cuts to services and rising taxes (targeted mainly at incomes, not assets,) is already on the way.

    The latest, highly plausible, rumour doing the rounds is that they plan to extend the freeze on income tax thresholds for an additional two years, so as to try to turn as many people of working age as possible into higher rate income tax payers. I'm frankly astonished that they've not unpicked the Truss repeal of the Health and Social Care Levy to boot - although I imagine that NI rises will also be back, in one form or another, before very much longer.

    The Conservative Party exists for one purpose and one purpose only: the redistribution of wealth upwards. What have, amongst other things, defence, security, the environment and schooling to do with that? Why should we expect them to care about any of it? They don't. End of story.
    If the Conservative Party was the caricature you make out then it would have lost power, permanently, some time in the 1830s.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808

    pigeon said:

    ping said:

    Sorry to be critical, @tse but I think you trivialise the issue, linking it to your 250/1 bet.

    I agree with your main point, though. A complete disaster for our national security.

    Why do the tories not take this shit seriously?

    The Tories take precisely one thing seriously: filling the pockets of themselves and their key backers (elderly homeowners in Southern England, and the very rich) by fucking over the rest of the population. The next round of cuts to services and rising taxes (targeted mainly at incomes, not assets,) is already on the way.

    The latest, highly plausible, rumour doing the rounds is that they plan to extend the freeze on income tax thresholds for an additional two years, so as to try to turn as many people of working age as possible into higher rate income tax payers. I'm frankly astonished that they've not unpicked the Truss repeal of the Health and Social Care Levy to boot - although I imagine that NI rises will also be back, in one form or another, before very much longer.

    The Conservative Party exists for one purpose and one purpose only: the redistribution of wealth upwards. What have, amongst other things, defence, security, the environment and schooling to do with that? Why should we expect them to care about any of it? They don't. End of story.
    If the Conservative Party was the caricature you make out then it would have lost power, permanently, some time in the 1830s.
    We can only dream!
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Farooq said:

    "It cost PBers a win" is not just irrelevant but downright weird. Get a grip.

    And there were PBers on the roundabouts as well as the swings
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    - “Character attacks can backfire by negatively defining the attacker.”

    One day Scottish Tory MSPs will learn that lesson.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,540

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to see marital rape decriminalised. There doesn't seem to be any limit to their assault on women's rights.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    Farooq said:

    "It cost PBers a win" is not just irrelevant but downright weird. Get a grip.

    You must be new around here.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,540

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
    Do you really believe that a law to ban contraceptives will be enacted in the USA? Really? I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU more likely.
    You are naive and complacent.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to see marital rape decriminalised. There doesn't seem to be any limit to their assault on women's rights.
    Maybe they thought The Handmaid's Tale was an instruction manual?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    And published at the time in Finland, yet never made its way back into British politics in any way? No pointed questions from the opposition or cryptic comments in the media; no journalists either in the UK or elsewhere in the world willing to touch the story? Amazing.

    So it IS the Finland story? Serious but defintely not the sexy scandal some seemed to be implying.
    That surely depends on what kind of messages were on her phone?
    FFS given what is generally accepted about a very senior politician's penchant for promiscuous unlubed buggery can we just agree that sex scandals are as archaic a concepts as 8 track audio tapes? Unless children or animals feature.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Forgive me for having a few doubts. The Mail on Sunday is a newspaper you trust? Really? Where are the details that can be checked? It makes good copy, and no newspaper would turn it down, but when did you become so gullible.

    Liz Truss was never my idea of an ideal PM, but a pinch of salt is required sometimes with our press. Next, you'll be believing that Putin always tells the truth.

    Sky News and BBC have the story front page, and we are not seeing any denials.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,540
    Ukrainians claiming to have killed 950 Russians soldiers yesterday. Apparently mostly in the area of Donetsk (where the Russians advanced somewhat to the SW of Avdiivka) and Lyman.

    This might be a consequence of the Russians throwing large numbers of recently mobilised soldiers into large-scale assaults.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GeneralStaffUA/status/1586621423379947520
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,328
    My wife, who is on their panel, got a Yougov almost entirely about Scotland this morning. Not just independence but detailed questions on what the SG should do if the SC says no, what the priorities of the SG should be, what functions she thought that the SG was actually responsible for in whole or in part, whether devolution was a good idea etc etc.

    I wonder who that was for.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,540

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to see marital rape decriminalised. There doesn't seem to be any limit to their assault on women's rights.
    Maybe they thought The Handmaid's Tale was an instruction manual?
    I think the causality is the other way round. Atwood saw what was happening in the US and could see where it was heading.
  • Bloody namby pamby Tofo-eating wokeraty remoaners. Just because the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth and Development and no getting hacked by the KGB Office got her phone hacked by the KGB.

    There is literally no story here.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    And by the way this is not primarily a story about Truss or Case it's a JOHNSON story with Truss in the Paterson/Pincher role, bearing out the argument that they could never have kept him on or had him back because the stories would just keep coming.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 37,446

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    They are in the UK and they are greedy barstewards to boot
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    edited October 30

    Ukrainians claiming to have killed 950 Russians soldiers yesterday. Apparently mostly in the area of Donetsk (where the Russians advanced somewhat to the SW of Avdiivka) and Lyman.

    This might be a consequence of the Russians throwing large numbers of recently mobilised soldiers into large-scale assaults.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GeneralStaffUA/status/1586621423379947520

    This prompted me to search out the deadliest day of WWI for comparison and I stumbled across a "fun" factoid

    The deadliest day for the Siamese Expeditionary Force was... February 7, 1919! The "battle" listed is "Base Hospital No. 57". I presume this means two previously injured soldiers being treated at that hospital died on the same day, and that this was the only day of the "war" when two Thai soldiers died.
    A useless nugget of info, but a nugget nonetheless.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_single_days_of_World_War_I
  • Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    May the Lord open. Gilead is at hand.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Farooq said:

    "It cost PBers a win" is not just irrelevant but downright weird. Get a grip.

    I think you may be on the wrong website.
    But it's not like you can even do anything with the information. You can't be sure it would have changed the result. You can't guard future bets against the possibility of an unknown unknown being suppressed. It's just bleating.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    EXCL: Suella Braverman was investigated over claims she leaked sensitive details about the Northern Ireland protocol earlier this year.

    It's the third leak inquiry into the Home Sec this year.


    https://twitter.com/thejonnyreilly/status/1586422183576109056?s=46&t=h95SjZmK99II4t_wyyjrHw
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,220
    edited October 30
    Mr Z,

    "Sky News and BBC have the story front page, and we are not seeing any denials."

    They are reporting the newspaper story, and that there are calls for an inquiry, they are not backing the gist of the story. If there's any truth in it, I'll have to revise my view of the press.

    So, there really was a red, London bus discovered on the moon?

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
    Do you really believe that a law to ban contraceptives will be enacted in the USA? Really? I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU more likely.
    Do you really believe that the President of the US would encourage a violent mob to storm Congress? That once seemed utterly implausible, yet it then happened.
    I’ll give you that one, but note that it failed and law and order won. To go back to my suggestion, I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU is more likely than a ban on contraception in the USA. I made no mention of marital rape.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,328
    Pakistan are about to get a tremendous boost to their NRR. It is increasingly becoming a lottery who is going to make the semifinals with weather likely to prove decisive.

    Having seen what NZ did to Sri Lanka (as well as Australia) England are going to have to be at their absolute best to win that one. NZ look to me the form team in the tournament.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    "It cost PBers a win" is not just irrelevant but downright weird. Get a grip.

    I think you may be on the wrong website.
    But it's not like you can even do anything with the information. You can't be sure it would have changed the result. You can't guard future bets against the possibility of an unknown unknown being suppressed. It's just bleating.
    So you are new around here.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,301
    pigeon said:

    ping said:

    Sorry to be critical, @tse but I think you trivialise the issue, linking it to your 250/1 bet.

    I agree with your main point, though. A complete disaster for our national security.

    Why do the tories not take this shit seriously?

    The Tories take precisely one thing seriously: filling the pockets of themselves and their key backers (elderly homeowners in Southern England, and the very rich) by fucking over the rest of the population. The next round of cuts to services and rising taxes (targeted mainly at incomes, not assets,) is already on the way.

    The latest, highly plausible, rumour doing the rounds is that they plan to extend the freeze on income tax thresholds for an additional two years, so as to try to turn as many people of working age as possible into higher rate income tax payers. I'm frankly astonished that they've not unpicked the Truss repeal of the Health and Social Care Levy to boot - although I imagine that NI rises will also be back, in one form or another, before very much longer.

    The Conservative Party exists for one purpose and one purpose only: the redistribution of wealth upwards. What have, amongst other things, defence, security, the environment and schooling to do with that? Why should we expect them to care about any of it? They don't. End of story.
    The LibDems should make more of their policy of raising the threshold for income tax when there is any money to do so. This policy was so popular in the coalition years that that the Tories trumpeted it.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nick-clegg/10455206/Tories-ready-to-adopt-Nick-Cleggs-pledge-to-cut-income-tax-for-lower-earners.html
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    CD13 said:

    Mr Z,

    "Sky News and BBC have the story front page, and we are not seeing any denials."

    They are reporting the newspaper story, and that there are calls for an inquiry, they are not backing the gist of the story. If there's any truth in it, I'll have to revise my view of the press.

    So, there really was a red, London bus discovered on the moon?

    Don't you start the bloody pointless not quoting thing.

    Yes they are reporting the story not its substance but no they wouldn't be doing that unless they thought it had legs. They would not be doing this about bus on the moon stories.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    May I ask: why are Truss, Case and The Oaf not under police investigation?

    Oh wait. I think I know the answer to this one.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,151
    Apart from the USA…..(which the tweeter acknowledges would break the scale if it was on the chart)

    Europe’s security is being paid for by the UK and Poland and on a per capita basis Denmark and Estonia and Lithuania.




    https://twitter.com/danielkorski/status/1586622730920673280
  • Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to see marital rape decriminalised. There doesn't seem to be any limit to their assault on women's rights.
    I can understand male shitkickers wanting to take southern Murica back to the civilization stone age. What I don't understand is female shitkickers voting to enslave themselves to these neanderthals. What is in it for them?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
    Do you really believe that a law to ban contraceptives will be enacted in the USA? Really? I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU more likely.
    Do you really believe that the President of the US would encourage a violent mob to storm Congress? That once seemed utterly implausible, yet it then happened.
    I’ll give you that one, but note that it failed and law and order won. To go back to my suggestion, I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU is more likely than a ban on contraception in the USA. I made no mention of marital rape.
    It’s good but irrelevant to the point that it failed. It was utterly implausible and then it happened.

    I don’t think all contraception will be banned throughout the US either… but the morning after pill? Contraceptive methods that are partially abortifacient? In certain states?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644

    May I ask: why are Truss, Case and The Oaf not under police investigation?

    Oh wait. I think I know the answer to this one.

    On what charge? It’s a newspaper story.
  • May I ask: why are Truss, Case and The Oaf not under police investigation?

    Oh wait. I think I know the answer to this one.

    Careful now. Remember that giving contemporaneous opinions honestly held about stories in the public realm and definitely on the public interest is almost certainly libel...
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    Ishmael_Z said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Z,

    "Sky News and BBC have the story front page, and we are not seeing any denials."

    They are reporting the newspaper story, and that there are calls for an inquiry, they are not backing the gist of the story. If there's any truth in it, I'll have to revise my view of the press.

    So, there really was a red, London bus discovered on the moon?

    Don't you start the bloody pointless not quoting thing.

    Yes they are reporting the story not its substance but no they wouldn't be doing that unless they thought it had legs. They would not be doing this about bus on the moon stories.
    +1
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855
    edited October 30

    May I ask: why are Truss, Case and The Oaf not under police investigation?

    Oh wait. I think I know the answer to this one.

    As they were over something else, not that long ago, I would guess the answer from the police would be 'nobody told us.'

    But this would hardly be ordinary police, would it? It would have to be something like Counter Terrorism Command.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 16,467

    the 250/1 missed bet angle is an aside and only worth a footnote ( you pay your money and take your chances especially in political betting ) but this is a really serious story especially given the danger the world faces with the Russia/Ukraine dispute.
    This is so serious there surely has to be a criminal investigation regarding the Official Secrets Act. I am sure recklessly handling top secret information is an offence even if not deliberately leaking it, as is covering up such leaks.
    Why are the current crop of top politicians so ignorant of these rules ? Is it that they were promoted too quickly and lost the sense of importance of these roles and that its not the individual in these roles that is important but the role itself?

    Having done IT security stuff it's never easy to get higher-ups to follow the security rules. The problem is that they tend to be quite petty and bureaucratic-seeming, and they really get in the way of getting actual immediate work done.

    The situation here is that it's not really possible to secure someone's Android phone or iPhone against an attacker with a sufficient budget, because with enough money you can buy exploits that nobody else yet even knows about. The normal solution is to compartmentalize, so they'd use one phone for stuff that doesn't need to be very secure and a different device for stuff that does. But compartmentalization is really hard to apply in practice, especially when the user is dealing with the same people for different purposes, and they have to remember to use this device to ask about the party and this other device to talk about the urgent issue they're going to have a meeting about before they go to the party.

    I'm sure it doesn't help that Brexit and the general state of the Conservative Party has selected for con artists and dim-wits and they've literally kicked the other people out of the party, but the fundamental problem of securing communications without destroying productivity is genuinely hard.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to see marital rape decriminalised. There doesn't seem to be any limit to their assault on women's rights.
    I can understand male shitkickers wanting to take southern Murica back to the civilization stone age. What I don't understand is female shitkickers voting to enslave themselves to these neanderthals. What is in it for them?
    Being roughly buggered by disgusting shits seems to be a hobby not confined to prime ministers.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Not safe to handle the economy.

    Not safe to handle our security.

    Time to get them out.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
    Do you really believe that a law to ban contraceptives will be enacted in the USA? Really? I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU more likely.
    Do you really believe that the President of the US would encourage a violent mob to storm Congress? That once seemed utterly implausible, yet it then happened.
    I’ll give you that one, but note that it failed and law and order won. To go back to my suggestion, I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU is more likely than a ban on contraception in the USA. I made no mention of marital rape.
    It’s good but irrelevant to the point that it failed. It was utterly implausible and then it happened.

    I don’t think all contraception will be banned throughout the US either… but the morning after pill? Contraceptive methods that are partially abortifacient? In certain states?
    Which is a long way from Gilead, which is my main point in all this. Maybe I’m wrong and in ten years most women in the US will be sterile and breeding women will be the privilidge of the elite. Or more realistically abortion will be banned, contraception banned and sex outside marriage illegal.
    I just don’t think it will happen. There are serious, religious, political nuts out there in the states, but the tide of human progress is against them. See also Iran right now.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
    Do you really believe that a law to ban contraceptives will be enacted in the USA? Really? I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU more likely.
    Strong "Supreme Court will never overturn Roe" energy in this comment.

    If you don't think Griswold is in the GOP sights you haven't been paying attention to the most trad fascist members of the Supreme Court have been publicly saying.

    Griswold was only 1965, there are people very much alive today who lived in a USA where the purchase of contraception was illegal
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,151
    After yesterday’s shocker in the Guardian a much more balanced piece in the Observer:

    There is an ugly strain of leftwing thinking that posits that having Conservative values is not really compatible with being brown or black. It is most evident in the Labour MP Rupa Huq’s comment last month that the former chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is only “superficially black” (for which she has since apologised). This is not an isolated instance; in 2019, a Labour candidate said that Sajid Javid, then home secretary, “definitely orders lemon and herb Nando’s” in response to the jibe he “100% cooks boil-in-the-bag rice”; a modern version of the old “coconut” insult that he isn’t truly Asian.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/30/rishi-sunak-politics-wretched-but-as-british-indian-i-see-why-his-rise-to-top-matters

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245

    Not safe to handle the economy.

    Not safe to handle our security.

    Time to get them out.

    Not safe without lubricant.

    Get it out!!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660

    Apart from the USA…..(which the tweeter acknowledges would break the scale if it was on the chart)

    Europe’s security is being paid for by the UK and Poland and on a per capita basis Denmark and Estonia and Lithuania.

    https://twitter.com/danielkorski/status/1586622730920673280

    One thing to pay attention to is that Germany is doing a lot of "Indirect" aid which graphs like these may or may not capture. They are providing replacement kit to Eastern European nations who transfer stuff to Ukraine.

    So Slovenia transfer a bunch of M-55S (shite tank but Ukraine will take it) and Germany then supply Slovenia with equipment as replacement.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to see marital rape decriminalised. There doesn't seem to be any limit to their assault on women's rights.
    I can understand male shitkickers wanting to take southern Murica back to the civilization stone age. What I don't understand is female shitkickers voting to enslave themselves to these neanderthals. What is in it for them?
    how can you go back to somewhere you've never left?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,094
    Ishmael_Z said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Z,

    "Sky News and BBC have the story front page, and we are not seeing any denials."

    They are reporting the newspaper story, and that there are calls for an inquiry, they are not backing the gist of the story. If there's any truth in it, I'll have to revise my view of the press.

    So, there really was a red, London bus discovered on the moon?

    Don't you start the bloody pointless not quoting thing.

    Yes they are reporting the story not its substance but no they wouldn't be doing that unless they thought it had legs. They would not be doing this about bus on the moon stories.
    Unless it was a Boris Brexit Bus, of course, in which case he wouild be busily making cardboard buses to swamp Google searches.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,154
    edited October 30

    the 250/1 missed bet angle is an aside and only worth a footnote ( you pay your money and take your chances especially in political betting ) but this is a really serious story especially given the danger the world faces with the Russia/Ukraine dispute.
    This is so serious there surely has to be a criminal investigation regarding the Official Secrets Act. I am sure recklessly handling top secret information is an offence even if not deliberately leaking it, as is covering up such leaks.
    Why are the current crop of top politicians so ignorant of these rules ? Is it that they were promoted too quickly and lost the sense of importance of these roles and that its not the individual in these roles that is important but the role itself?

    Having done IT security stuff it's never easy to get higher-ups to follow the security rules. The problem is that they tend to be quite petty and bureaucratic-seeming, and they really get in the way of getting actual immediate work done.

    The situation here is that it's not really possible to secure someone's Android phone or iPhone against an attacker with a sufficient budget, because with enough money you can buy exploits that nobody else yet even knows about. The normal solution is to compartmentalize, so they'd use one phone for stuff that doesn't need to be very secure and a different device for stuff that does. But compartmentalization is really hard to apply in practice, especially when the user is dealing with the same people for different purposes, and they have to remember to use this device to ask about the party and this other device to talk about the urgent issue they're going to have a meeting about before they go to the party.

    I'm sure it doesn't help that Brexit and the general state of the Conservative Party has selected for con artists and dim-wits and they've literally kicked the other people out of the party, but the fundamental problem of securing communications without destroying productivity is genuinely hard.
    so why allow them personal phones in these roles? Personal sacrifice is needed in these roles and this should be one of them- Obama never was allowed on when President (as he referenced on Bear Grylls show that he did with him).
    I have been extremely shocked by the arrogance generally of the current crop of high office holders (not in policy proposals - thats just politics ) but in their general arrogance - Kwasi Kwarteng was so full of self importance that he even could keep still and serious at the Queens Funeral ,seemingly checking his phone for instance, Boris of course started it with ignoring his own covid rules
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,922

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
    Do you really believe that a law to ban contraceptives will be enacted in the USA? Really? I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU more likely.
    Do you really believe that the President of the US would encourage a violent mob to storm Congress? That once seemed utterly implausible, yet it then happened.
    I’ll give you that one, but note that it failed and law and order won. To go back to my suggestion, I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU is more likely than a ban on contraception in the USA. I made no mention of marital rape.
    It’s good but irrelevant to the point that it failed. It was utterly implausible and then it happened.

    I don’t think all contraception will be banned throughout the US either… but the morning after pill? Contraceptive methods that are partially abortifacient? In certain states?
    Which is a long way from Gilead, which is my main point in all this. Maybe I’m wrong and in ten years most women in the US will be sterile and breeding women will be the privilidge of the elite. Or more realistically abortion will be banned, contraception banned and sex outside marriage illegal.
    I just don’t think it will happen. There are serious, religious, political nuts out there in the states, but the tide of human progress is against them. See also Iran right now.
    The tide of human history depends a lot on the political hegemons of the day. If the US becomes a fundamentalist religious state it would be quite unsurprising to see that exported to much of the rest of the democratic world over a decade or two, leaving Northern Europe and the odd holdout elsewhere the exception rather the forerunners of history.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,922

    the 250/1 missed bet angle is an aside and only worth a footnote ( you pay your money and take your chances especially in political betting ) but this is a really serious story especially given the danger the world faces with the Russia/Ukraine dispute.
    This is so serious there surely has to be a criminal investigation regarding the Official Secrets Act. I am sure recklessly handling top secret information is an offence even if not deliberately leaking it, as is covering up such leaks.
    Why are the current crop of top politicians so ignorant of these rules ? Is it that they were promoted too quickly and lost the sense of importance of these roles and that its not the individual in these roles that is important but the role itself?

    Having done IT security stuff it's never easy to get higher-ups to follow the security rules. The problem is that they tend to be quite petty and bureaucratic-seeming, and they really get in the way of getting actual immediate work done.

    The situation here is that it's not really possible to secure someone's Android phone or iPhone against an attacker with a sufficient budget, because with enough money you can buy exploits that nobody else yet even knows about. The normal solution is to compartmentalize, so they'd use one phone for stuff that doesn't need to be very secure and a different device for stuff that does. But compartmentalization is really hard to apply in practice, especially when the user is dealing with the same people for different purposes, and they have to remember to use this device to ask about the party and this other device to talk about the urgent issue they're going to have a meeting about before they go to the party.

    I'm sure it doesn't help that Brexit and the general state of the Conservative Party has selected for con artists and dim-wits and they've literally kicked the other people out of the party, but the fundamental problem of securing communications without destroying productivity is genuinely hard.
    so why allow them personal phones in these roles? Personal sacrifice is needed in these roles and this should be one of them- Obama never was allowed on when President (as he referenced on Bear Grylls show that he did with him)
    Who is there to say no you can't have one? Boris? Hehe.....
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
    Do you really believe that a law to ban contraceptives will be enacted in the USA? Really? I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU more likely.
    Do you really believe that the President of the US would encourage a violent mob to storm Congress? That once seemed utterly implausible, yet it then happened.
    I’ll give you that one, but note that it failed and law and order won. To go back to my suggestion, I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU is more likely than a ban on contraception in the USA. I made no mention of marital rape.
    It’s good but irrelevant to the point that it failed. It was utterly implausible and then it happened.

    I don’t think all contraception will be banned throughout the US either… but the morning after pill? Contraceptive methods that are partially abortifacient? In certain states?
    Which is a long way from Gilead, which is my main point in all this. Maybe I’m wrong and in ten years most women in the US will be sterile and breeding women will be the privilidge of the elite. Or more realistically abortion will be banned, contraception banned and sex outside marriage illegal.
    I just don’t think it will happen. There are serious, religious, political nuts out there in the states, but the tide of human progress is against them. See also Iran right now.
    The Handmaid's Tale considered the reaction to a sterility crisis. The GOP don't care about that bit, they just like the idea of a white patriarchy where men of power command all that they see, the womenfolk know their place and the minorities go away.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 16,467

    the 250/1 missed bet angle is an aside and only worth a footnote ( you pay your money and take your chances especially in political betting ) but this is a really serious story especially given the danger the world faces with the Russia/Ukraine dispute.
    This is so serious there surely has to be a criminal investigation regarding the Official Secrets Act. I am sure recklessly handling top secret information is an offence even if not deliberately leaking it, as is covering up such leaks.
    Why are the current crop of top politicians so ignorant of these rules ? Is it that they were promoted too quickly and lost the sense of importance of these roles and that its not the individual in these roles that is important but the role itself?

    Having done IT security stuff it's never easy to get higher-ups to follow the security rules. The problem is that they tend to be quite petty and bureaucratic-seeming, and they really get in the way of getting actual immediate work done.

    The situation here is that it's not really possible to secure someone's Android phone or iPhone against an attacker with a sufficient budget, because with enough money you can buy exploits that nobody else yet even knows about. The normal solution is to compartmentalize, so they'd use one phone for stuff that doesn't need to be very secure and a different device for stuff that does. But compartmentalization is really hard to apply in practice, especially when the user is dealing with the same people for different purposes, and they have to remember to use this device to ask about the party and this other device to talk about the urgent issue they're going to have a meeting about before they go to the party.

    I'm sure it doesn't help that Brexit and the general state of the Conservative Party has selected for con artists and dim-wits and they've literally kicked the other people out of the party, but the fundamental problem of securing communications without destroying productivity is genuinely hard.
    so why allow them personal phones in these roles? Personal sacrifice is needed in these roles and this should be one of them- Obama never was allowed on when President (as he referenced on Bear Grylls show that he did with him)
    If you don't allow them personal phones they'll do all their personal stuff on the work phone and you're back where you started.

    Alternatively if you're going to lock down the work phone to the point where they can't use Whats App, and you can somehow force them to accept this despite the fact that they're nominally in charge of you not the other way around, they'll be instantly out-plotted and you'll have to start again with a new minister.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    It’s the ones who think it’s a manifesto that we need to worry about.
    You mean the loons and fruitcakes? Every society has them. We do too. They are not in power.
    Look up thread.
    Do you really believe that a law to ban contraceptives will be enacted in the USA? Really? I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU more likely.
    Do you really believe that the President of the US would encourage a violent mob to storm Congress? That once seemed utterly implausible, yet it then happened.
    I’ll give you that one, but note that it failed and law and order won. To go back to my suggestion, I think the U.K. rejoining the full fat EU is more likely than a ban on contraception in the USA. I made no mention of marital rape.
    It’s good but irrelevant to the point that it failed. It was utterly implausible and then it happened.

    I don’t think all contraception will be banned throughout the US either… but the morning after pill? Contraceptive methods that are partially abortifacient? In certain states?
    Which is a long way from Gilead, which is my main point in all this. Maybe I’m wrong and in ten years most women in the US will be sterile and breeding women will be the privilidge of the elite. Or more realistically abortion will be banned, contraception banned and sex outside marriage illegal.
    I just don’t think it will happen. There are serious, religious, political nuts out there in the states, but the tide of human progress is against them. See also Iran right now.
    The tide of human progress argument collapsed the day the Supreme Court overturned Roe vs Wade.

    Here’s a US “pro-life” group taking aim at the Pill: https://www.hli.org/resources/abortifacient-brief-birth-control-pill/

    Here’s a serious law article talking about the threat to some contraceptive methods: https://www.law.georgetown.edu/gender-journal/abortion-trigger-ban-statutes-impacts-on-plan-b-birth-control-and-ivf-treatments/

    That doesn’t mean this is going to happen, but the “nuts” are in control of the Republican Party and they’re clear about the direction they want to go in.

  • Farooq said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to see marital rape decriminalised. There doesn't seem to be any limit to their assault on women's rights.
    I can understand male shitkickers wanting to take southern Murica back to the civilization stone age. What I don't understand is female shitkickers voting to enslave themselves to these neanderthals. What is in it for them?
    how can you go back to somewhere you've never left?
    Hmmm. I think a slave state can be described as the civilization stone age. And they still pine for it.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    Are you saying if you don't own your own business or work in "higher professional jobs" then that's failure?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,328
    It seems to me that there could be good reasons to keep such a leak secret. It would be an opportunity to transfer false information, for example. There may be assets which the Russians know about but would sweep up when the leak was discovered who might be given some sort of a chance to run.

    But it is also significant that this leak seems to have been on a private phone. If there was top secret material on a private phone Truss would have been guilty of what Braverman resigned for. The blazing row that allegedly took place between her and Truss comes back to mind: sacking her for something that Braverman knew Truss had been equally guilty of would cause rancor. And given leaky Sue's reputation is this why the story is public now?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,220
    Mr Z,

    If there is truth in the story, I'm all in favour of it being investigated, and the miscreants punished. But you have to ask 'cui bono'. The newspaper gets publicity, and Truss's opponents gain traction, even if it's too late to affect anything.

    It might turn out to be true, but evidence would be nice, rather than the words of someone with an axe to grind or newspapers to sell.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,204
    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    Are you saying if you don't own your own business or work in "higher professional jobs" then that's failure?
    Yes.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Farooq said:

    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) said he is open to banning contraception “depending on where the legislatures are” during the next session....
    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1570447074252197892

    If you ban the sale of contraception, the only legal route left to women is withholding sex. Not sure this is the vote winner he thinks it is.
    That’s the next thing they’ll ban. Have you read the Handmaids Tale?
    You know that’s fiction, right? I think too many seem to think it’s a bloody documentary.
    I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to see marital rape decriminalised. There doesn't seem to be any limit to their assault on women's rights.
    I can understand male shitkickers wanting to take southern Murica back to the civilization stone age. What I don't understand is female shitkickers voting to enslave themselves to these neanderthals. What is in it for them?
    how can you go back to somewhere you've never left?
    Hmmm. I think a slave state can be described as the civilization stone age. And they still pine for it.
    The south didn't leave the stone age the day the slavery ban was forced upon it.

    You can take the states out of the Confederacy, but you can't take the Confederacy out of the states.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    So, it begins...



    Amanda Akass
    @amandaakass
    ·
    11m
    Labour says the alleged hack raises “serious security questions” which need urgent investigation. Lib Dems questioning why the details were not made public earlier. Tobias Elwood, Tory Chair of Defence Committee, tells Sky News Intelligence & Security Committee should investigate
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,631

    the 250/1 missed bet angle is an aside and only worth a footnote ( you pay your money and take your chances especially in political betting ) but this is a really serious story especially given the danger the world faces with the Russia/Ukraine dispute.
    This is so serious there surely has to be a criminal investigation regarding the Official Secrets Act. I am sure recklessly handling top secret information is an offence even if not deliberately leaking it, as is covering up such leaks.
    Why are the current crop of top politicians so ignorant of these rules ? Is it that they were promoted too quickly and lost the sense of importance of these roles and that its not the individual in these roles that is important but the role itself?

    Having done IT security stuff it's never easy to get higher-ups to follow the security rules. The problem is that they tend to be quite petty and bureaucratic-seeming, and they really get in the way of getting actual immediate work done.

    The situation here is that it's not really possible to secure someone's Android phone or iPhone against an attacker with a sufficient budget, because with enough money you can buy exploits that nobody else yet even knows about. The normal solution is to compartmentalize, so they'd use one phone for stuff that doesn't need to be very secure and a different device for stuff that does. But compartmentalization is really hard to apply in practice, especially when the user is dealing with the same people for different purposes, and they have to remember to use this device to ask about the party and this other device to talk about the urgent issue they're going to have a meeting about before they go to the party.

    I'm sure it doesn't help that Brexit and the general state of the Conservative Party has selected for con artists and dim-wits and they've literally kicked the other people out of the party, but the fundamental problem of securing communications without destroying productivity is genuinely hard.
    so why allow them personal phones in these roles? Personal sacrifice is needed in these roles and this should be one of them- Obama never was allowed on when President (as he referenced on Bear Grylls show that he did with him)
    If you don't allow them personal phones they'll do all their personal stuff on the work phone and you're back where you started.

    Alternatively if you're going to lock down the work phone to the point where they can't use Whats App, and you can somehow force them to accept this despite the fact that they're nominally in charge of you not the other way around, they'll be instantly out-plotted and you'll have to start again with a new minister.
    Give them burner phones like they do in The Wire.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    Are you saying if you don't own your own business or work in "higher professional jobs" then that's failure?
    Yes.
    I see.
    Well, I'm sure "White British families" will be eager for more of your lessons. Any day now.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,204
    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    Are you saying if you don't own your own business or work in "higher professional jobs" then that's failure?
    Yes.
    I see.
    Well, I'm sure "White British families" will be eager for more of your lessons. Any day now.
    They should be, not mine, the Hindu community that has gone from having nothing when arriving in the 60s and 70s to being the second highest earning religious group, the first non white PM and quite simply the backbone of the NHS. If people don't want to learn from that then more fool them.
This discussion has been closed.