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The establishment cost PBers a 250/1 winner – politicalbetting.com

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  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Has anyone considered that allowing Liz Truss to own a compromised phone would be an excellent way to feed misinformation to the Russians?

    Of course that is an option, or rather it was until some idiot leaker thought they knew best. Russia now knows that we know, and I haven't read the story but they might also be able to pin down the rough date of when it was discovered, which would be used to assess the veracity of any intelligence. The leaker(s) have put politics ahead of security.
    Give it up. That might fly if (a) that was what happened, and (b) the spooks had not relieved LizT of the compromised phone, and (c) the KGB was too thick to realise no-one was using said phone any more.
    Knowing when a phone was taken out of use is different from knowing when a phone was discovered to have been compromised. There are loads of intelligence cases where things have been allowed to carry on running as usual, or appearing so, whilst an investigation took place. Which is why people shouldn't be leaking such stories to presumably score political points.
    The story was leaked long after the phone was removed from Liz Truss.
    That's not the point at all. The details in the story like "the hack was discovered during the summer’s Tory leadership campaign" allow a timeline to be constructed by the Russian intelligence services. So from that statement you can say that anything that originated after 13th July is less likely to be true than the messages and calls before that date. They can also look at when the phone went offline to assess whether immediate action was taken or was there any attempt to feed false information.

    This might seem trivial, but that's all intelligence really is, lots of trivial details that build up a picture.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Disappointing lack of attractive women. Your standards are slipping. :)
    It’s too frigging cold to think about sex

    Impressive place. Two mighty tectonic plates ripping apart - creating these deep dark lava rock ravines, where they used to hurl witches. Perfect
    The only place in the world where a tectonic plate boundary is above a hot spot. Elsewhere, @Leon, you would be standing on the ocean floor.
    And the only place which is also: an incredibly ancient Parliament, an execution ground, the site of a national religious conversion, the witch burning field, and a sacred pool where incestuous
    girls were put in weighted sacks and thrown in the geothermal water to drown

  • glw said:

    Has anyone considered that allowing Liz Truss to own a compromised phone would be an excellent way to feed misinformation to the Russians?

    Of course that is an option, or rather it was until some idiot leaker thought they knew best. Russia now knows that we know, and I haven't read the story but they might also be able to pin down the rough date of when it was discovered, which would be used to assess the veracity of any intelligence. The leaker(s) have put politics ahead of security.
    I think this is clutching at straws - Feeding misinformation can be as deadly as feeding valid information in the nuclear age - nuclear stability relies on mutual trust to a large extent. Governments will know that- This is just lax arrogance - as i say it is quite unbelievable that high office holders have personal phones -
  • glw said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Has anyone considered that allowing Liz Truss to own a compromised phone would be an excellent way to feed misinformation to the Russians?

    Of course that is an option, or rather it was until some idiot leaker thought they knew best. Russia now knows that we know, and I haven't read the story but they might also be able to pin down the rough date of when it was discovered, which would be used to assess the veracity of any intelligence. The leaker(s) have put politics ahead of security.
    Give it up. That might fly if (a) that was what happened, and (b) the spooks had not relieved LizT of the compromised phone, and (c) the KGB was too thick to realise no-one was using said phone any more.
    Knowing when a phone was taken out of use is different from knowing when a phone was discovered to have been compromised. There are loads of intelligence cases where things have been allowed to carry on running as usual, or appearing so, whilst an investigation took place. Which is why people shouldn't be leaking such stories to presumably score political points.
    The story was leaked long after the phone was removed from Liz Truss.
    That's not the point at all. The details in the story like "the hack was discovered during the summer’s Tory leadership campaign" allow a timeline to be constructed by the Russian intelligence services. So from that statement you can say that anything that originated after 13th July is less likely to be true than the messages and calls before that date. They can also look at when the phone went offline to assess whether immediate action was taken or was there any attempt to feed false information.

    This might seem trivial, but that's all intelligence really is, lots of trivial details that build up a picture.

    Do the Russians read anything outside the UK press? The story was only embargoed here.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    There was a time when Scotland was like that, with a massive emphasis on education and a huge desire to "get on". It's tragic how far we have fallen away from those cultural values to those of envy and bitterness. I really don't know how it happened but it is in my lifetime. My parents and my wife's parents would recognise and endorse the values you espouse in a heartbeat.
    But Hinduism is growing in Scotland. I don't get it. How can Max's heralds of right living be on the up at the same time it's all going to rack and ruin? At least one of you must be wrong.
    That is nonsense. Hindus are very much on the up because their cultural values give them an edge over the indigenous population but one is not incompatible with the other. In the 20 years we had kids at DHS we saw Hindus go from a tiny minority to a significant presence in the school. Their parents were completely up for sacrifices to ensure that their kids got a proper education. They are the doctors, lawyers and accountants of the next generation. Already they are disproportionately more professional and earn significantly more than the average.

    The problem Scotland has is that there are not enough Hindus, or people who share those values, to carry the rest. And we have a government whose main focus is finding reasons to whine about the Union and how unfair everything is.
    You are doing the same thing that you condemn - blame the government for everything. A government that tries to support students more than the norm of the UKG settlement, within the limits of the devolution settlement.
    No I absolutely am not. The government is not helping but this is a much wider problem that existed long before an SNP administration was ever contemplated. In my lifetime Scots have switched from admiring those that get on and make something of themselves to resenting them and wanting to tax them out of existence. That is not an SNP thing although they seem to have those values too.

    And as for helping students more, well the SG funding is so poor that our Universities have become dependent upon foreign students and indeed English students to subsidise their education. Even then, the number of places are limited and becoming more so, closing the door to opportunity. We have utterly destroyed our college system replacing it with certificates for all, regardless of effort or attendance, the exact opposite of training people for the world of work. Our school standards have fallen so far against international standards the SG doesn't want to play anymore.

    A Scottish education was something to be proud of in my youth, If you did well in it you had worked hard and applied yourself. Sadly, that is no longer the case and it is not equipping our next generation to create and develop the economy we need.
    The devastation wreaked on Scottish, and the wider UK, society, by Thatcher destroyed hope and ambition in many places. Why try to improve when there are no jobs and no hope?
    Yet another myth and need to blame someone else. This is a chart of employment in the UK over time:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/281998/employment-figures-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

    What we see is that employment started to fall in the last 2 years of the Labour government and this continued until a point in 1983 after which employment rose consistently, considerably exceeding previous highs, until after she lost power.
    Eh? Am I looking at the wrong chart?
    Afaics employment rose in the last 2 years of the Labour government. The 2 most precipitous falls were under Conservative governments.

    There were of course lots of regional variations in these rises and falls, not least in Scotland.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Disappointing lack of attractive women. Your standards are slipping. :)
    It’s too frigging cold to think about sex

    Impressive place. Two mighty tectonic plates ripping apart - creating these deep dark lava rock ravines, where they used to hurl witches. Perfect
    The only place in the world where a tectonic plate boundary is above a hot spot. Elsewhere, @Leon, you would be standing on the ocean floor.
    And the only place which is also: an incredibly ancient Parliament, an execution ground, the site of a national religious conversion, the witch burning field, and a sacred pool where incestuous
    girls were put in weighted sacks and thrown in the geothermal water to drown

    Any info on what happened to the incestuous blokes?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    The simple truth is the massive gap in educational aspiration between white and non white working class communities. Not sure what the policy makers can do about it - it’s deeply embedded culturally.

    Visit any grammar school in London to see this fact in play.

    And between Indian and Chinese working class communities and the other non white communities too as well as the white working class.

    Although part of it is due to the fact immigrants tend to be more motivated
    Indeed. A large part of why people migrate is for better economic opportunities. By their very nature immigrants have a great deal of "get up and go".
    But there are huge variations between ethnicities. It's not the case that all immigrants are equally successful, eitger educationally or career wise.
    I wonder if it is the case that the immigrants we get from India and Afruca tend to come from better off backgrounds where education was more highly valued than those from Pakistan or the West Inidies? Just speculation - and of course I know there are always counterexamples.
    I think there were big differences in the social class origins of different immigrant groups, and what they were brought here to do. Mill worker or Doctor? Cleaner or PhD student?

    There is also the issue of where groups settled. For everyone there are more economic opportunities in London than Northern towns, which is why migrants want to move to London, whether from Nigeria, France or shire England.
  • glw said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Has anyone considered that allowing Liz Truss to own a compromised phone would be an excellent way to feed misinformation to the Russians?

    Of course that is an option, or rather it was until some idiot leaker thought they knew best. Russia now knows that we know, and I haven't read the story but they might also be able to pin down the rough date of when it was discovered, which would be used to assess the veracity of any intelligence. The leaker(s) have put politics ahead of security.
    Give it up. That might fly if (a) that was what happened, and (b) the spooks had not relieved LizT of the compromised phone, and (c) the KGB was too thick to realise no-one was using said phone any more.
    Knowing when a phone was taken out of use is different from knowing when a phone was discovered to have been compromised. There are loads of intelligence cases where things have been allowed to carry on running as usual, or appearing so, whilst an investigation took place. Which is why people shouldn't be leaking such stories to presumably score political points.
    The story was leaked long after the phone was removed from Liz Truss.
    That's not the point at all. The details in the story like "the hack was discovered during the summer’s Tory leadership campaign" allow a timeline to be constructed by the Russian intelligence services. So from that statement you can say that anything that originated after 13th July is less likely to be true than the messages and calls before that date. They can also look at when the phone went offline to assess whether immediate action was taken or was there any attempt to feed false information.

    This might seem trivial, but that's all intelligence really is, lots of trivial details that build up a picture.

    There is no evidence that Truss's phone was ever turned in the manner you suggest. For a start, she'd have needed a second, "true" phone.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Been there, done that. Is it necessary to fill the chasm with tourists? Does it stop working if they don't? Just have this vision of the earth gobbling them all up.

    PS @Leon can you reply to my questions yesterday re how this journalism stuff works. Genuinely interested in the finances as I don't have a clue, although another poster gave what appeared to be a very good reply. I linked the question to @Leon so it should be easy to see.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Disappointing lack of attractive women. Your standards are slipping. :)
    It’s too frigging cold to think about sex

    Impressive place. Two mighty tectonic plates ripping apart - creating these deep dark lava rock ravines, where they used to hurl witches. Perfect
    The only place in the world where a tectonic plate boundary is above a hot spot. Elsewhere, @Leon, you would be standing on the ocean floor.
    And the only place which is also: an incredibly ancient Parliament, an execution ground, the site of a national religious conversion, the witch burning field, and a sacred pool where incestuous
    girls were put in weighted sacks and thrown in the geothermal water to drown

    Any info on what happened to the incestuous blokes?
    Beheaded
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2022

    glw said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Has anyone considered that allowing Liz Truss to own a compromised phone would be an excellent way to feed misinformation to the Russians?

    Of course that is an option, or rather it was until some idiot leaker thought they knew best. Russia now knows that we know, and I haven't read the story but they might also be able to pin down the rough date of when it was discovered, which would be used to assess the veracity of any intelligence. The leaker(s) have put politics ahead of security.
    Give it up. That might fly if (a) that was what happened, and (b) the spooks had not relieved LizT of the compromised phone, and (c) the KGB was too thick to realise no-one was using said phone any more.
    Knowing when a phone was taken out of use is different from knowing when a phone was discovered to have been compromised. There are loads of intelligence cases where things have been allowed to carry on running as usual, or appearing so, whilst an investigation took place. Which is why people shouldn't be leaking such stories to presumably score political points.
    The story was leaked long after the phone was removed from Liz Truss.
    That's not the point at all. The details in the story like "the hack was discovered during the summer’s Tory leadership campaign" allow a timeline to be constructed by the Russian intelligence services. So from that statement you can say that anything that originated after 13th July is less likely to be true than the messages and calls before that date. They can also look at when the phone went offline to assess whether immediate action was taken or was there any attempt to feed false information.

    This might seem trivial, but that's all intelligence really is, lots of trivial details that build up a picture.

    There is no evidence that Truss's phone was ever turned in the manner you suggest. For a start, she'd have needed a second, "true" phone.
    Presumably the Security Services/Govt could have slapped a D-notice on the book/story if they had wanted to. Maybe it was actually discovered much later and the latest story is itself misinformation to try and limit the damage!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    BTW, horrific stuff in South Korea. Brings back memories of being in London at the Millennium, and how surely lucky London was back then.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    On the Truss story - surely the issue is not that a lightweight politician got her phone compromised? The issue is that No.10 covered it up.

    It is completely normal to keep quiet about such things. You don't let your enemy know what you know about their espionage. Usually we only hear about such things if a lot of time has passed, their is some action taken against the foreign power like arrests or sanctions, or in rare cases where it is in the public interest to raise the alarm like a large scale campaign where the public need to be warned.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    The peculiar non-emergence of The Finland Rumour is perhaps now explained
  • FF43 said:

    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?

    LizT was the last person to see the Queen alive.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    glw said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Has anyone considered that allowing Liz Truss to own a compromised phone would be an excellent way to feed misinformation to the Russians?

    Of course that is an option, or rather it was until some idiot leaker thought they knew best. Russia now knows that we know, and I haven't read the story but they might also be able to pin down the rough date of when it was discovered, which would be used to assess the veracity of any intelligence. The leaker(s) have put politics ahead of security.
    Give it up. That might fly if (a) that was what happened, and (b) the spooks had not relieved LizT of the compromised phone, and (c) the KGB was too thick to realise no-one was using said phone any more.
    Knowing when a phone was taken out of use is different from knowing when a phone was discovered to have been compromised. There are loads of intelligence cases where things have been allowed to carry on running as usual, or appearing so, whilst an investigation took place. Which is why people shouldn't be leaking such stories to presumably score political points.
    The story was leaked long after the phone was removed from Liz Truss.
    That's not the point at all. The details in the story like "the hack was discovered during the summer’s Tory leadership campaign" allow a timeline to be constructed by the Russian intelligence services. So from that statement you can say that anything that originated after 13th July is less likely to be true than the messages and calls before that date. They can also look at when the phone went offline to assess whether immediate action was taken or was there any attempt to feed false information.

    This might seem trivial, but that's all intelligence really is, lots of trivial details that build up a picture.

    There is no evidence that Truss's phone was ever turned in the manner you suggest. For a start, she'd have needed a second, "true" phone.
    That is probably correct, it still doesn't make leaking details such as when it was discovered a good thing to do.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    The peculiar non-emergence of The Finland Rumour is perhaps now explained

    That it was shit.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    There was a time when Scotland was like that, with a massive emphasis on education and a huge desire to "get on". It's tragic how far we have fallen away from those cultural values to those of envy and bitterness. I really don't know how it happened but it is in my lifetime. My parents and my wife's parents would recognise and endorse the values you espouse in a heartbeat.
    But Hinduism is growing in Scotland. I don't get it. How can Max's heralds of right living be on the up at the same time it's all going to rack and ruin? At least one of you must be wrong.
    That is nonsense. Hindus are very much on the up because their cultural values give them an edge over the indigenous population but one is not incompatible with the other. In the 20 years we had kids at DHS we saw Hindus go from a tiny minority to a significant presence in the school. Their parents were completely up for sacrifices to ensure that their kids got a proper education. They are the doctors, lawyers and accountants of the next generation. Already they are disproportionately more professional and earn significantly more than the average.

    The problem Scotland has is that there are not enough Hindus, or people who share those values, to carry the rest. And we have a government whose main focus is finding reasons to whine about the Union and how unfair everything is.
    You are doing the same thing that you condemn - blame the government for everything. A government that tries to support students more than the norm of the UKG settlement, within the limits of the devolution settlement.
    No I absolutely am not. The government is not helping but this is a much wider problem that existed long before an SNP administration was ever contemplated. In my lifetime Scots have switched from admiring those that get on and make something of themselves to resenting them and wanting to tax them out of existence. That is not an SNP thing although they seem to have those values too.

    And as for helping students more, well the SG funding is so poor that our Universities have become dependent upon foreign students and indeed English students to subsidise their education. Even then, the number of places are limited and becoming more so, closing the door to opportunity. We have utterly destroyed our college system replacing it with certificates for all, regardless of effort or attendance, the exact opposite of training people for the world of work. Our school standards have fallen so far against international standards the SG doesn't want to play anymore.

    A Scottish education was something to be proud of in my youth, If you did well in it you had worked hard and applied yourself. Sadly, that is no longer the case and it is not equipping our next generation to create and develop the economy we need.
    The devastation wreaked on Scottish, and the wider UK, society, by Thatcher destroyed hope and ambition in many places. Why try to improve when there are no jobs and no hope?
    Yet another myth and need to blame someone else. This is a chart of employment in the UK over time:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/281998/employment-figures-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

    What we see is that employment started to fall in the last 2 years of the Labour government and this continued until a point in 1983 after which employment rose consistently, considerably exceeding previous highs, until after she lost power.

    Employment:
    June 70: 24.6 (Mar 71 earliest available)
    Feb 74: 25.0 (+0.4 vs when Con took office)
    Oct 74: 25.1
    May 79: 25.1 (+0.1 under Labour)
    June 83 23.6
    June 87: 25.1
    April 92: 26.6
    May 97: 26.5 (+1.4 under Con)
    June 01: 27.7
    May 05: 28.8
    May 10: 29.1 (+2.6 under Labour)
    May 15: 31.1 (+2.0 under Coalition)
    June 17: 32.1
    Dec 19: 32.9 (+1.8 under Con)

    Striking the significant growth in more recent years and despite COVID current employment is level with Dec 19 (32.8).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited October 2022

    FF43 said:

    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?

    LizT was the last person to see the Queen alive.
    I think you’ll find her daughter, the Princess Royal was.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Disappointing lack of attractive women. Your standards are slipping. :)
    It’s too frigging cold to think about sex

    Impressive place. Two mighty tectonic plates ripping apart - creating these deep dark lava rock ravines, where they used to hurl witches. Perfect
    The only place in the world where a tectonic plate boundary is above a hot spot. Elsewhere, @Leon, you would be standing on the ocean floor.
    And the only place which is also: an incredibly ancient Parliament, an execution ground, the site of a national religious conversion, the witch burning field, and a sacred pool where incestuous
    girls were put in weighted sacks and thrown in the geothermal water to drown

    Any info on what happened to the incestuous blokes?
    Beheaded
    Typical, always the easy way out for the men.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    One thing I don’t get though is how we know what was actually on this phone. So her personal phone was hacked. Is that her fault? - possibly not. But are claims about what was on it reliable and it seems a bit of a serious breach of security to be leaking that if at all accurate.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,700
    FF43 said:

    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?

    torpedoed singapore-on-thames hahahahahahaha
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    glw said:

    On the Truss story - surely the issue is not that a lightweight politician got her phone compromised? The issue is that No.10 covered it up.

    It is completely normal to keep quiet about such things. You don't let your enemy know what you know about their espionage. Usually we only hear about such things if a lot of time has passed, their is some action taken against the foreign power like arrests or sanctions, or in rare cases where it is in the public interest to raise the alarm like a large scale campaign where the public need to be warned.
    The cover up happened here after the Finland story. The Russians knew but we still suppressed the story here. Why?

    So that LT could be PM.

    Why was that allowed? Because the selectorate were not to know, that is why. No.10 knew LT was the front runner and would keep Sunak out.

    They trashed the UK's already weakened reputation and cost the country billions, nearly wrecked pension schemes and for what? To protect a story that had already leaked out to the European press?

    It would make sense to cover up to maintain a secret, but this cover up was not about that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Disappointing lack of attractive women. Your standards are slipping. :)
    It’s too frigging cold to think about sex

    Impressive place. Two mighty tectonic plates ripping apart - creating these deep dark lava rock ravines, where they used to hurl witches. Perfect
    The only place in the world where a tectonic plate boundary is above a hot spot. Elsewhere, @Leon, you would be standing on the ocean floor.
    And the only place which is also: an incredibly ancient Parliament, an execution ground, the site of a national religious conversion, the witch burning field, and a sacred pool where incestuous
    girls were put in weighted sacks and thrown in the geothermal water to drown

    Any info on what happened to the incestuous blokes?
    Beheaded
    Typical, always the easy way out for the men.
    In an early example of typically Nordic gender equality, the 16th century Icelandics were, unusually, just as keen to burn male witches as female witches. And this also happened here at Thingvellir

    Non binary witch burnings!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    FF43 said:

    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?

    Gave libertarians and neo-liberals a bad name?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Tres said:

    FF43 said:

    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?

    torpedoed singapore-on-thames hahahahahahaha
    Torpedoed Labour's ability to borrow to fund its Manifesto.

    hur hur hur.....
  • TresTres Posts: 2,700

    Tres said:

    FF43 said:

    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?

    torpedoed singapore-on-thames hahahahahahaha
    Torpedoed Labour's ability to borrow to fund its Manifesto.

    hur hur hur.....
    gilts are right back to where they were before and Liz and Kwasi show.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Fun video:

    .@rabbitandcoffee reimagines the procession of U.K. prime ministers in the world of SUCCESSION.

    https://twitter.com/InsidersABC/status/1586493084644167681
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    FF43 said:

    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?

    torpedoed singapore-on-thames hahahahahahaha
    Torpedoed Labour's ability to borrow to fund its Manifesto.

    hur hur hur.....
    gilts are right back to where they were before and Liz and Kwasi show.
    But they won't be, if Labour tries to repeat the Kwasi and Liz Show.....

    Going to be a difficult task to manage TU expectations.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    Depends if the owner of the media concerned is looking for a peerage....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    FF43 said:

    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?

    To be fair, her unwittingly passing on state secrets was outside her time as PM.

    The FCO has secure systems of communication, but they are rather tiresome to our leaders.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Our Icelandic guide has just casually mentioned that his “great grandmother was eaten by a polar bear”
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,900
    edited October 2022

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    The so-called D-notice system (qv) exists for the government to suppress stories like this.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841
    If the story was only embargoed here why wasn't it reported anywhere else? Same with this 'Finland' rubbish.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Fun video:

    .@rabbitandcoffee reimagines the procession of U.K. prime ministers in the world of SUCCESSION.

    https://twitter.com/InsidersABC/status/1586493084644167681

    Brilliantly done :+1::+1::+1:
  • TresTres Posts: 2,700

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    FF43 said:

    So in just 40 days Liz Truss wrecked the public finances and unwittingly passed critical state secrets to the enemy. Any other achievements?

    torpedoed singapore-on-thames hahahahahahaha
    Torpedoed Labour's ability to borrow to fund its Manifesto.

    hur hur hur.....
    gilts are right back to where they were before and Liz and Kwasi show.
    But they won't be, if Labour tries to repeat the Kwasi and Liz Show.....

    Going to be a difficult task to manage TU expectations.
    But that was never on cards. Even when McDonnell was shadow Chancellor he knew his figures had to balance. Wrong-Daily perhaps you might have had a point.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Musk heading back to the courts, by the look of it.

    Saturday Night News: Musk fired the company’s entire senior staff “for cause,” an attempt to avoid paying out tens of millions of dollars in severance packages to the former CEO, CFO, GC and head of legal
    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/1586539695491624960
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSMA-Notice
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Been there, done that. Is it necessary to fill the chasm with tourists? Does it stop working if they don't? Just have this vision of the earth gobbling them all up.

    PS @Leon can you reply to my questions yesterday re how this journalism stuff works. Genuinely interested in the finances as I don't have a clue, although another poster gave what appeared to be a very good reply. I linked the question to @Leon so it should be easy to see.
    I think you've got it the wrong way around: the Tourists bubble up naturally from the centre of the earth. That's why there are so many tourists in Iceland.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

  • If the story was only embargoed here why wasn't it reported anywhere else? Same with this 'Finland' rubbish.

    If the Truss phone story was the Finland rumour then it was reported elsewhere.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    Depends if the owner of the media concerned is looking for a peerage....
    Such informal horsetrading seems unlikely given that Rupert Murdoch could not accept a peerage and probably doesn't want one anyway.

    I remember being told in no uncertain terms when all the pedo kerfuffle was being spoken about that a 'D-notice' (a Government imposed media blackout) didn't exist. But it seems from this story that they're relatively routine.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    Presumably they merely mean Case decided not to release any info and are dressing it up as shadowy conspiracy.
    Its not a D notice as it wouldnt be out now if it were and the mail are not able to provide any details of being 'leant on'.
    Its as convincing as Braverman 'being investigated' when she was just one of many, none of whom were found responsible, with a 'the source reckons' chucked in

    In both cases the story is not the story, the undertone and desired outcome is
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    There was a time when Scotland was like that, with a massive emphasis on education and a huge desire to "get on". It's tragic how far we have fallen away from those cultural values to those of envy and bitterness. I really don't know how it happened but it is in my lifetime. My parents and my wife's parents would recognise and endorse the values you espouse in a heartbeat.
    But Hinduism is growing in Scotland. I don't get it. How can Max's heralds of right living be on the up at the same time it's all going to rack and ruin? At least one of you must be wrong.
    That is nonsense. Hindus are very much on the up because their cultural values give them an edge over the indigenous population but one is not incompatible with the other. In the 20 years we had kids at DHS we saw Hindus go from a tiny minority to a significant presence in the school. Their parents were completely up for sacrifices to ensure that their kids got a proper education. They are the doctors, lawyers and accountants of the next generation. Already they are disproportionately more professional and earn significantly more than the average.

    The problem Scotland has is that there are not enough Hindus, or people who share those values, to carry the rest. And we have a government whose main focus is finding reasons to whine about the Union and how unfair everything is.
    You are doing the same thing that you condemn - blame the government for everything. A government that tries to support students more than the norm of the UKG settlement, within the limits of the devolution settlement.
    No I absolutely am not. The government is not helping but this is a much wider problem that existed long before an SNP administration was ever contemplated. In my lifetime Scots have switched from admiring those that get on and make something of themselves to resenting them and wanting to tax them out of existence. That is not an SNP thing although they seem to have those values too.

    And as for helping students more, well the SG funding is so poor that our Universities have become dependent upon foreign students and indeed English students to subsidise their education. Even then, the number of places are limited and becoming more so, closing the door to opportunity. We have utterly destroyed our college system replacing it with certificates for all, regardless of effort or attendance, the exact opposite of training people for the world of work. Our school standards have fallen so far against international standards the SG doesn't want to play anymore.

    A Scottish education was something to be proud of in my youth, If you did well in it you had worked hard and applied yourself. Sadly, that is no longer the case and it is not equipping our next generation to create and develop the economy we need.
    The devastation wreaked on Scottish, and the wider UK, society, by Thatcher destroyed hope and ambition in many places. Why try to improve when there are no jobs and no hope?
    Yet another myth and need to blame someone else. This is a chart of employment in the UK over time:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/281998/employment-figures-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

    What we see is that employment started to fall in the last 2 years of the Labour government and this continued until a point in 1983 after which employment rose consistently, considerably exceeding previous highs, until after she lost power.

    Employment:
    June 70: 24.6 (Mar 71 earliest available)
    Feb 74: 25.0 (+0.4 vs when Con took office)
    Oct 74: 25.1
    May 79: 25.1 (+0.1 under Labour)
    June 83 23.6
    June 87: 25.1
    April 92: 26.6
    May 97: 26.5 (+1.4 under Con)
    June 01: 27.7
    May 05: 28.8
    May 10: 29.1 (+2.6 under Labour)
    May 15: 31.1 (+2.0 under Coalition)
    June 17: 32.1
    Dec 19: 32.9 (+1.8 under Con)

    Striking the significant growth in more recent years and despite COVID current employment is level with Dec 19 (32.8).
    Thanks. When I went back to it I saw that I had misread the scale on the chart as @Theuniondivvie correctly pointed out. But the idea that there was mass unemployment or lack of opportunity through the Thatcher years is simply wrong and Scotland did better than most on the back of north sea oil.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Nigelb said:

    Musk heading back to the courts, by the look of it.

    Saturday Night News: Musk fired the company’s entire senior staff “for cause,” an attempt to avoid paying out tens of millions of dollars in severance packages to the former CEO, CFO, GC and head of legal
    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/1586539695491624960

    Well the bastards made him buy it, didn't they?
  • alex_ said:

    One thing I don’t get though is how we know what was actually on this phone. So her personal phone was hacked. Is that her fault? - possibly not. But are claims about what was on it reliable and it seems a bit of a serious breach of security to be leaking that if at all accurate.

    They probably figure that if the KGB knows, so does the CIA.

    You know what is missing from this tale, once you look past the faux indignation about press leaks? Any suggestion that every other government phone was immediately checked.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    franklyn said:

    Much to my astonishment and delight, my book 'LIFELINE' has just won in this year's British Medical Association medical book awards ('Good Medical Practice' category).
    The book analyses the reason's for the collapse of the NHS, and given how much health has become a political 'hot potato' might be of interest to readers of pb.com. Some of the book will make you laugh and some will reduce you to tears of rage. There were a few occasions when I was writing when I had to stop because I was so upset.
    It's available on Amazon, Waterstones, etc.

    Fantastic. Well done.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Disappointing lack of attractive women. Your standards are slipping. :)
    It’s too frigging cold to think about sex

    Impressive place. Two mighty tectonic plates ripping apart - creating these deep dark lava rock ravines, where they used to hurl witches. Perfect
    The only place in the world where a tectonic plate boundary is above a hot spot. Elsewhere, @Leon, you would be standing on the ocean floor.
    And the only place which is also: an incredibly ancient Parliament, an execution ground, the site of a national religious conversion, the witch burning field, and a sacred pool where incestuous
    girls were put in weighted sacks and thrown in the geothermal water to drown

    Any info on what happened to the incestuous blokes?
    Beheaded
    "Decaffeinated?"
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    franklyn said:

    Much to my astonishment and delight, my book 'LIFELINE' has just won in this year's British Medical Association medical book awards ('Good Medical Practice' category).
    The book analyses the reason's for the collapse of the NHS, and given how much health has become a political 'hot potato' might be of interest to readers of pb.com. Some of the book will make you laugh and some will reduce you to tears of rage. There were a few occasions when I was writing when I had to stop because I was so upset.
    It's available on Amazon, Waterstones, etc.

    Congratulations, great achievement.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    franklyn said:

    Much to my astonishment and delight, my book 'LIFELINE' has just won in this year's British Medical Association medical book awards ('Good Medical Practice' category).
    The book analyses the reason's for the collapse of the NHS, and given how much health has become a political 'hot potato' might be of interest to readers of pb.com. Some of the book will make you laugh and some will reduce you to tears of rage. There were a few occasions when I was writing when I had to stop because I was so upset.
    It's available on Amazon, Waterstones, etc.

    Wow - congratulations!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
    I dunno. The media seems pretty tame to me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,900
    edited October 2022
    franklyn said:

    Much to my astonishment and delight, my book 'LIFELINE' has just won in this year's British Medical Association medical book awards ('Good Medical Practice' category).
    The book analyses the reason's for the collapse of the NHS, and given how much health has become a political 'hot potato' might be of interest to readers of pb.com. Some of the book will make you laugh and some will reduce you to tears of rage. There were a few occasions when I was writing when I had to stop because I was so upset.
    It's available on Amazon, Waterstones, etc.

    Ah, I'd not realised Lifeline has a PB author (unless that is why I bought it in the first place, and I've forgotten it was already plugged here). Well done on the prize.

    ETA all the winners:-
    https://www.bma.org.uk/media/6336/bma-medical-book-awards-winners-2022.pdf
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    Surely because the current government wants to be straight with the British people? 😉
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Musk heading back to the courts, by the look of it.

    Saturday Night News: Musk fired the company’s entire senior staff “for cause,” an attempt to avoid paying out tens of millions of dollars in severance packages to the former CEO, CFO, GC and head of legal
    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/1586539695491624960

    Well the bastards made him buy it, didn't they?
    Looks as though they set themselves up with some fairly watertight employment contracts, too.
    $200m is pretty small change to Musk, but I feel that Twitter will turn out to be a costly distraction for him. He might surprise us all and develop a highly profitable web business out of it… but I know which of that, Tesla and SpaceX I’d rather invest in.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Musk heading back to the courts, by the look of it.

    Saturday Night News: Musk fired the company’s entire senior staff “for cause,” an attempt to avoid paying out tens of millions of dollars in severance packages to the former CEO, CFO, GC and head of legal
    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/1586539695491624960

    Well the bastards made him buy it, didn't they?
    That did a fantastic job of maximising shareholder value! Except for him of course ;)

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    franklyn said:

    Much to my astonishment and delight, my book 'LIFELINE' has just won in this year's British Medical Association medical book awards ('Good Medical Practice' category).
    The book analyses the reason's for the collapse of the NHS, and given how much health has become a political 'hot potato' might be of interest to readers of pb.com. Some of the book will make you laugh and some will reduce you to tears of rage. There were a few occasions when I was writing when I had to stop because I was so upset.
    It's available on Amazon, Waterstones, etc.

    Congratulations!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    edited October 2022
    franklyn said:

    Much to my astonishment and delight, my book 'LIFELINE' has just won in this year's British Medical Association medical book awards ('Good Medical Practice' category).
    The book analyses the reason's for the collapse of the NHS, and given how much health has become a political 'hot potato' might be of interest to readers of pb.com. Some of the book will make you laugh and some will reduce you to tears of rage. There were a few occasions when I was writing when I had to stop because I was so upset.
    It's available on Amazon, Waterstones, etc.


    Nobly done 🥂
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    Depends if the owner of the media concerned is looking for a peerage....
    Such informal horsetrading seems unlikely given that Rupert Murdoch could not accept a peerage and probably doesn't want one anyway.

    I remember being told in no uncertain terms when all the pedo kerfuffle was being spoken about that a 'D-notice' (a Government imposed media blackout) didn't exist. But it seems from this story that they're relatively routine.
    Who on earth said that?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSMA-Notice
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
    This is an enormous dead cat. I'll wager there was nothing national security related, just some *ahem* and some 'apres Boris, c'est moi'
    Its been tweaked to achieve a goal
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
    I dunno. The media seems pretty tame to me.
    Yeah they are helping Sunak help Suella
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Musk heading back to the courts, by the look of it.

    Saturday Night News: Musk fired the company’s entire senior staff “for cause,” an attempt to avoid paying out tens of millions of dollars in severance packages to the former CEO, CFO, GC and head of legal
    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/1586539695491624960

    Well the bastards made him buy it, didn't they?
    Looks as though they set themselves up with some fairly watertight employment contracts, too.
    $200m is pretty small change to Musk, but I feel that Twitter will turn out to be a costly distraction for him. He might surprise us all and develop a highly profitable web business out of it… but I know which of that, Tesla and SpaceX I’d rather invest in.

    Gives the lie, however, to the PB meme that Twitter is a worthless irrelevance. The opposite is the case

  • franklyn said:

    Much to my astonishment and delight, my book 'LIFELINE' has just won in this year's British Medical Association medical book awards ('Good Medical Practice' category).
    The book analyses the reason's for the collapse of the NHS, and given how much health has become a political 'hot potato' might be of interest to readers of pb.com. Some of the book will make you laugh and some will reduce you to tears of rage. There were a few occasions when I was writing when I had to stop because I was so upset.
    It's available on Amazon, Waterstones, etc.

    You must be very proud. Congratulations
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
    This is an enormous dead cat. I'll wager there was nothing national security related, just some *ahem* and some 'apres Boris, c'est moi'
    Its been tweaked to achieve a goal
    You are so desperate for this not to be a real and substantial story as it clearly is, you are replying to your own posts about it.

    All stories are from sources so what is your point?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Next time Andrew Sullivan is on the BBC telling us about left wing domination of US media, they might ask him about the Fox reaction to the Pelosi story.
    And the lack of interest of some of the 'liberal' media.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jesseltaylor/status/1586496754408644608
    Pretty sure the NYT will end up having devoted more time and resources to Sarah Huckabee Sanders being asked to leave a restaurant than an assassination attempt on the Speaker of the House


    You may well discover there are *reasons* this story is being underplayed
    What you mean is that the MAGA/right wing echo chamber has gone into overdrive to try to deflect blame from themselves, seizing on a couple of misreported and/or misrepresented “facts” in the initial aftermath (since debunked/withdrawn as inaccurate) to create a vast fantastical conspiracy which is a million miles from the highly likely and most obvious version of events.

    Because when the obvious version of events doesn’t paint MAGA and its followers in a good light they have to create an alternative version (or several for when each one falls by the wayside).
    Indeed. There’s already been a bot attack on Wikipedia trying to push a false flag narrative.

    Of course, Alex Jones made false flag claims about a different event and now owes nearly a billion dollars in libel damages. I hope no-one here is stupid enough to drag PB.com into similar difficulties.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022
    Ishmael_Z said:

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
    This is an enormous dead cat. I'll wager there was nothing national security related, just some *ahem* and some 'apres Boris, c'est moi'
    Its been tweaked to achieve a goal
    You are so desperate for this not to be a real and substantial story as it clearly is, you are replying to your own posts about it.

    All stories are from sources so what is your point?
    I meant to reply to Luckyguy but there you go, im a tool.
    My point is if this was being suppressed via D Notice by Case then it wouldn't now be out, and if the info retrieved was of blackmail/national security level it absolutely eould be under D notice. That not being the case and a mystery 'source' briefing the Mail then its clearly a much lesser issue being used for a purpose - probably to distract from Suella issues.
    There is no way a source is annonymously briefing the Mail on something with massive national security implication and the government not be in utter panic and 'blackout everything to do with this' mode.
    The opposition also would be very careful if there were proper, serious implications.
    Im not 'desperate for it not to be a big story', im trying to identify the actual story/issue
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Cookie said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Been there, done that. Is it necessary to fill the chasm with tourists? Does it stop working if they don't? Just have this vision of the earth gobbling them all up.

    PS @Leon can you reply to my questions yesterday re how this journalism stuff works. Genuinely interested in the finances as I don't have a clue, although another poster gave what appeared to be a very good reply. I linked the question to @Leon so it should be easy to see.
    I think you've got it the wrong way around: the Tourists bubble up naturally from the centre of the earth. That's why there are so many tourists in Iceland.
    So that's how I got here
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,965
    edited October 2022
    Alistair said:
    Lol!

    'The number of data points used to calculate April 2022 hotel price CPI inflation in NI was... two.'

    'Therefore it seems likely that the apparent jump in CPI in Northern Ireland in April 2022 was not caused by the Northern Ireland Protocol, but by Little Mix. Specifically, the concerts at the SSE Arena, which caused two hotels to increase their prices.'

    I guess the DUP have done their 'The NIP is destroying ouf fair land' on even flimsier shit, mind.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Next time Andrew Sullivan is on the BBC telling us about left wing domination of US media, they might ask him about the Fox reaction to the Pelosi story.
    And the lack of interest of some of the 'liberal' media.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jesseltaylor/status/1586496754408644608
    Pretty sure the NYT will end up having devoted more time and resources to Sarah Huckabee Sanders being asked to leave a restaurant than an assassination attempt on the Speaker of the House


    You may well discover there are *reasons* this story is being underplayed
    What you mean is that the MAGA/right wing echo chamber has gone into overdrive to try to deflect blame from themselves, seizing on a couple of misreported and/or misrepresented “facts” in the initial aftermath (since debunked/withdrawn as inaccurate) to create a vast fantastical conspiracy which is a million miles from the highly likely and most obvious version of events.

    Because when the obvious version of events doesn’t paint MAGA and its followers in a good light they have to create an alternative version (or several for when each one falls by the wayside).
    Indeed. There’s already been a bot attack on Wikipedia trying to push a false flag narrative.

    Of course, Alex Jones made false flag claims about a different event and now owes nearly a billion dollars in libel damages. I hope no-one here is stupid enough to drag PB.com into similar difficulties.
    I think the story is so ludicrous that we can safely recount it just to laugh at it. Hammer man was Paul Pelosi's gay lover on a cocaine bender.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,900
    edited October 2022

    Ishmael_Z said:

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
    This is an enormous dead cat. I'll wager there was nothing national security related, just some *ahem* and some 'apres Boris, c'est moi'
    Its been tweaked to achieve a goal
    You are so desperate for this not to be a real and substantial story as it clearly is, you are replying to your own posts about it.

    All stories are from sources so what is your point?
    I meant to reply to Luckyguy but there you go, im a tool.
    My point is if this was being suppressed via D Notice by Case then it wouldn't now be out, and if the info retrieved was of blackmail/national security level it absolutely eould be under D notice. That not being the case and a mystery 'source' briefing the Mail then its clearly a much lesser issue being used for a purpose - probably to distract from Suella issues.
    There is no way a source is annonymously briefing the Mail on something with massive national security implication and the government not be in utter panic and 'blackout everything to do with this' mode.
    The opposition also would be very careful if there were proper, serious implications.
    Im not 'desperate for it not to be a big story', im trying to identify the actual story/issue
    What security implications? The implications are that the government (whether that means HMG or MI5 or Liz Truss or anyone else) messed up. There are no great security implications (from the leak) because the KGB already knows what phones the KGB hacked. Official embarrassment is not the same as national security.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    Ishmael_Z said:

    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Next time Andrew Sullivan is on the BBC telling us about left wing domination of US media, they might ask him about the Fox reaction to the Pelosi story.
    And the lack of interest of some of the 'liberal' media.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jesseltaylor/status/1586496754408644608
    Pretty sure the NYT will end up having devoted more time and resources to Sarah Huckabee Sanders being asked to leave a restaurant than an assassination attempt on the Speaker of the House


    You may well discover there are *reasons* this story is being underplayed
    What you mean is that the MAGA/right wing echo chamber has gone into overdrive to try to deflect blame from themselves, seizing on a couple of misreported and/or misrepresented “facts” in the initial aftermath (since debunked/withdrawn as inaccurate) to create a vast fantastical conspiracy which is a million miles from the highly likely and most obvious version of events.

    Because when the obvious version of events doesn’t paint MAGA and its followers in a good light they have to create an alternative version (or several for when each one falls by the wayside).
    Indeed. There’s already been a bot attack on Wikipedia trying to push a false flag narrative.

    Of course, Alex Jones made false flag claims about a different event and now owes nearly a billion dollars in libel damages. I hope no-one here is stupid enough to drag PB.com into similar difficulties.
    I think the story is so ludicrous that we can safely recount it just to laugh at it. Hammer man was Paul Pelosi's gay lover on a cocaine bender.
    Oh, sure, we can recount nonsense to laugh at it. I worry about the one who believes it to be true.

  • Alistair said:
    Lol!

    'The number of data points used to calculate April 2022 hotel price CPI inflation in NI was... two.'

    'Therefore it seems likely that the apparent jump in CPI in Northern Ireland in April 2022 was not caused by the Northern Ireland Protocol, but by Little Mix. Specifically, the concerts at the SSE Arena, which caused two hotels to increase their prices.'

    I guess the DUP have done their 'The NIP is destroying ouf fair land' on even flimsier shit, mind.
    All economic statistics are rubbish, to a greater or lesser extent. At best they approximate whatever underlying concept researchers want to measure. Why were hotel room rates included in the first place? What about cat food or baked beans?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Leon said:

    Our Icelandic guide has just casually mentioned that his “great grandmother was eaten by a polar bear”

    Think s/he might be winding you up. Polar bears do not live in Iceland. They occasionally arrive by accident. Looked it up and it is about one every couple of years. You have really got to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to get eaten by one, or not be in Iceland of course.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090

    Alistair said:
    Lol!

    'The number of data points used to calculate April 2022 hotel price CPI inflation in NI was... two.'

    'Therefore it seems likely that the apparent jump in CPI in Northern Ireland in April 2022 was not caused by the Northern Ireland Protocol, but by Little Mix. Specifically, the concerts at the SSE Arena, which caused two hotels to increase their prices.'

    I guess the DUP have done their 'The NIP is destroying ouf fair land' on even flimsier shit, mind.
    All economic statistics are rubbish, to a greater or lesser extent. At best they approximate whatever underlying concept researchers want to measure. Why were hotel room rates included in the first place? What about cat food or baked beans?


    This one now has to have meds, which I have to give in her food, so she now has wet food twice as often. She’s happy, but it’s definitely contributed to cat food-related inflation in my household.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    There was a time when Scotland was like that, with a massive emphasis on education and a huge desire to "get on". It's tragic how far we have fallen away from those cultural values to those of envy and bitterness. I really don't know how it happened but it is in my lifetime. My parents and my wife's parents would recognise and endorse the values you espouse in a heartbeat.
    But Hinduism is growing in Scotland. I don't get it. How can Max's heralds of right living be on the up at the same time it's all going to rack and ruin? At least one of you must be wrong.
    That is nonsense. Hindus are very much on the up because their cultural values give them an edge over the indigenous population but one is not incompatible with the other. In the 20 years we had kids at DHS we saw Hindus go from a tiny minority to a significant presence in the school. Their parents were completely up for sacrifices to ensure that their kids got a proper education. They are the doctors, lawyers and accountants of the next generation. Already they are disproportionately more professional and earn significantly more than the average.

    The problem Scotland has is that there are not enough Hindus, or people who share those values, to carry the rest. And we have a government whose main focus is finding reasons to whine about the Union and how unfair everything is.
    David, you trying to say the small Tory contingent of absolute losers in Holyrood would benefit Scotland in any way shape or form. Better we shoot one foot off rather than let the Tories ahck both feet off and come back for our eyeballs.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022

    Ishmael_Z said:

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
    This is an enormous dead cat. I'll wager there was nothing national security related, just some *ahem* and some 'apres Boris, c'est moi'
    Its been tweaked to achieve a goal
    You are so desperate for this not to be a real and substantial story as it clearly is, you are replying to your own posts about it.

    All stories are from sources so what is your point?
    I meant to reply to Luckyguy but there you go, im a tool.
    My point is if this was being suppressed via D Notice by Case then it wouldn't now be out, and if the info retrieved was of blackmail/national security level it absolutely eould be under D notice. That not being the case and a mystery 'source' briefing the Mail then its clearly a much lesser issue being used for a purpose - probably to distract from Suella issues.
    There is no way a source is annonymously briefing the Mail on something with massive national security implication and the government not be in utter panic and 'blackout everything to do with this' mode.
    The opposition also would be very careful if there were proper, serious implications.
    Im not 'desperate for it not to be a big story', im trying to identify the actual story/issue
    What security implications? The implications are that the government (whether that means HMG or MI5 or Liz Truss or anyone else) messed up. There are no great security implications because the KGB already knows what phones the KGB hacked. Official embarrassment is not the same as national security.
    Well, that depends on the info retrieved doesnt it? We don't know what was retrieved. My point is, if it were 'official seecrets' stuff, this story would not have got out, thus its just 'embarassing for Liz' stuff and the story is being used to deflect from Suella.
    Im not sure whats so controversial about that? Its blatantly obvious thats what is going on here. Hence the Mail getting the scoop

    Edit - Cooper even says it 'this better not be to deflect from other stories' cos she knows it is
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    What security implications? The implications are that the government (whether that means HMG or MI5 or Liz Truss or anyone else) messed up. There are no great security implications because the KGB already knows what phones the KGB hacked. Official embarrassment is not the same as national security.

    Given that the state-of-the-art for malware is zero-click zero-day attacks the only sense that someone has messed up is in having a phone at all. So unless you literrally ban public officials from having phones you are going to have these sort of problems.
  • kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Our Icelandic guide has just casually mentioned that his “great grandmother was eaten by a polar bear”

    Think s/he might be winding you up. Polar bears do not live in Iceland. They occasionally arrive by accident. Looked it up and it is about one every couple of years. You have really got to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to get eaten by one, or not be in Iceland of course.
    Are up off to the geyser by chance next? Did it yesterday! Currently doing the hike to the volcano that isn't erupting
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Ishmael_Z said:

    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Next time Andrew Sullivan is on the BBC telling us about left wing domination of US media, they might ask him about the Fox reaction to the Pelosi story.
    And the lack of interest of some of the 'liberal' media.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jesseltaylor/status/1586496754408644608
    Pretty sure the NYT will end up having devoted more time and resources to Sarah Huckabee Sanders being asked to leave a restaurant than an assassination attempt on the Speaker of the House


    You may well discover there are *reasons* this story is being underplayed
    What you mean is that the MAGA/right wing echo chamber has gone into overdrive to try to deflect blame from themselves, seizing on a couple of misreported and/or misrepresented “facts” in the initial aftermath (since debunked/withdrawn as inaccurate) to create a vast fantastical conspiracy which is a million miles from the highly likely and most obvious version of events.

    Because when the obvious version of events doesn’t paint MAGA and its followers in a good light they have to create an alternative version (or several for when each one falls by the wayside).
    Indeed. There’s already been a bot attack on Wikipedia trying to push a false flag narrative.

    Of course, Alex Jones made false flag claims about a different event and now owes nearly a billion dollars in libel damages. I hope no-one here is stupid enough to drag PB.com into similar difficulties.
    I think the story is so ludicrous that we can safely recount it just to laugh at it. Hammer man was Paul Pelosi's gay lover on a cocaine bender.
    You've destroyed the mystique!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Alistair said:

    Apart from the USA…..(which the tweeter acknowledges would break the scale if it was on the chart)

    Europe’s security is being paid for by the UK and Poland and on a per capita basis Denmark and Estonia and Lithuania.

    https://twitter.com/danielkorski/status/1586622730920673280

    One thing to pay attention to is that Germany is doing a lot of "Indirect" aid which graphs like these may or may not capture. They are providing replacement kit to Eastern European nations who transfer stuff to Ukraine.

    So Slovenia transfer a bunch of M-55S (shite tank but Ukraine will take it) and Germany then supply Slovenia with equipment as replacement.
    Carlotta is not interested in a fair and balanced representation of the facts. The account is used purely for propaganda purposes.
    Tory Government mouthpiece , as you say pure propaganda and particularly anti Scottish to boot.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Thingvellir. Where two continents divorce and a chasm fills with tourists

    Been there, done that. Is it necessary to fill the chasm with tourists? Does it stop working if they don't? Just have this vision of the earth gobbling them all up.

    PS @Leon can you reply to my questions yesterday re how this journalism stuff works. Genuinely interested in the finances as I don't have a clue, although another poster gave what appeared to be a very good reply. I linked the question to @Leon so it should be easy to see.
    I think you've got it the wrong way around: the Tourists bubble up naturally from the centre of the earth. That's why there are so many tourists in Iceland.
    So that's how I got here
    Its a lot more believable than the stork thing, that's for sure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Our Icelandic guide has just casually mentioned that his “great grandmother was eaten by a polar bear”

    Think s/he might be winding you up. Polar bears do not live in Iceland. They occasionally arrive by accident. Looked it up and it is about one every couple of years. You have really got to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to get eaten by one, or not be in Iceland of course.
    Are up off to the geyser by chance next? Did it yesterday! Currently doing the hike to the volcano that isn't erupting

    18 seconds ago




  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724

    Shashank Joshi
    @shashj
    ·
    11m
    Russia’s abandonment of the grain deal and threat to cargo is going to hurt many of those sympathetic to Moscow. “almost half of exports have gone to middle- or low-income countries in Africa and Asia”

    https://twitter.com/shashj
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Ishmael_Z said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    There was a time when Scotland was like that, with a massive emphasis on education and a huge desire to "get on". It's tragic how far we have fallen away from those cultural values to those of envy and bitterness. I really don't know how it happened but it is in my lifetime. My parents and my wife's parents would recognise and endorse the values you espouse in a heartbeat.
    Welfarism, the state replacing the role of families in being a safety net. The drive to not fail in life diminishes when the state says it's no problem to fail. And our safety net is laughably generous. It's become a way of life for people who stack excuse upon excuse for why they can't work when the reality is that they don't want to.
    I can see why those tory party members thought you were "one of the good ones."

    I don't wanna sound unduly combative, but you have lucked in to a ludicrously overpaid job which adds zero to society and takes relatively little in the way of skill and aptitude, it's the kind of thing all the least interesting people I knew at Oxford do. The lucking in - I wouldn't normally make this point but it is thoroughly relevant to your claims - is thanks to this country, bond trading being less of a thing on the subcontinent - and your signature posting style is to shit on the old and poor for not being old and poor enough. If that's Hindu values, I have a suggestion as to where you can put them.
    His daddy got him it as well, was an old chum that interviewed him as he bragged on here many moons ago.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    This geyser is fucking brilliant
  • glw said:

    What security implications? The implications are that the government (whether that means HMG or MI5 or Liz Truss or anyone else) messed up. There are no great security implications because the KGB already knows what phones the KGB hacked. Official embarrassment is not the same as national security.

    Given that the state-of-the-art for malware is zero-click zero-day attacks the only sense that someone has messed up is in having a phone at all. So unless you literrally ban public officials from having phones you are going to have these sort of problems.
    If it was Truss and Truss only (and I've mentioned that no-one has reported checking all the other phones) then it was presumably targeted at Truss specifically, either by sophisticated spear-phishing or by someone who gained physical access to her phone. Now that is worrying, but reporting it would hardly endanger national security.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    Are you saying if you don't own your own business or work in "higher professional jobs" then that's failure?
    Yes.
    I see.
    Well, I'm sure "White British families" will be eager for more of your lessons. Any day now.
    They should be, not mine, the Hindu community that has gone from having nothing when arriving in the 60s and 70s to being the second highest earning religious group, the first non white PM and quite simply the backbone of the NHS. If people don't want to learn from that then more fool them.
    I'm sure there's lots to learn from them as there is from many people - it's always great to open your mind to how other people live. I do wonder whether at least as important as the specific cultural values of Hinduism is the fact that immigrant communities are a self selecting group with a predisposition to hard work, sacrifice and taking risks? After all, if Hindus as a group were the most devoted people in the world as far as education is concerned then presumably India wouldn't have a terrible public education system and be full of illiterates?
    I disagree with your view that anyone who doesn't earn big bucks or join a profession is a failure, BTW. That's a pretty small minded and narrow view of what constitutes success. Perhaps the learning process could go both ways?
    In general, I think Hindus were disproportionately drawn from professional classes when they arrived here, especially those who came from East Africa, so it was natural that they should do well. They seem to have avoided a lot of the problems that can afflict the children of professional people, too.

    Other groups that do well for similar reasons are Chinese and Nigerians.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    What is a 'news blackout' in this context, and how does the Head of the Civil Service go about imposing one? Does he just say to the media 'Oy lads, this Russia hacks Truss's phone story - No.'?

    I know about super-injunctions and I don't really approve, but that is at least some sort of legal process.

    Downthread there is also mention of the media sitting on stories about Bojo that may re-emerge if he runs for PM again. Why are they sitting on them, and at whos request? Why is that in the public interest?

    D-Notice.

    It wouldnt be out now if there were a D notice, the Mail arent that brave
    One assumes any blackout would now be rescinded because Truss is gone and negative stories about her suit the current Government.
    The story is from a 'source' though, not something that was clearly known but under suppression. Otherwise the Mail would say 'we found out about this in August but were prevented from running the story'
    This is an enormous dead cat. I'll wager there was nothing national security related, just some *ahem* and some 'apres Boris, c'est moi'
    Its been tweaked to achieve a goal
    You are so desperate for this not to be a real and substantial story as it clearly is, you are replying to your own posts about it.

    All stories are from sources so what is your point?
    I meant to reply to Luckyguy but there you go, im a tool.
    My point is if this was being suppressed via D Notice by Case then it wouldn't now be out, and if the info retrieved was of blackmail/national security level it absolutely eould be under D notice. That not being the case and a mystery 'source' briefing the Mail then its clearly a much lesser issue being used for a purpose - probably to distract from Suella issues.
    There is no way a source is annonymously briefing the Mail on something with massive national security implication and the government not be in utter panic and 'blackout everything to do with this' mode.
    The opposition also would be very careful if there were proper, serious implications.
    Im not 'desperate for it not to be a big story', im trying to identify the actual story/issue
    BBC

    "There are immensely important national security issues raised by an attack like this by a hostile state which will have been taken extremely seriously by our intelligence and security agencies," said shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper.

    "There are also serious security questions around why and how this information has been leaked or released right now which must also be urgently investigated."

    The Mail on Sunday reported agents suspected of working for Russia had been responsible for the alleged hacking, citing unnamed sources, but the BBC has not been able to verify this."

    That last sentence implies to me that the BBC *has* independently verified the other elements of the story.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360

    If the story was only embargoed here why wasn't it reported anywhere else? Same with this 'Finland' rubbish.

    If the Truss phone story was the Finland rumour then it was reported elsewhere.
    This story is very tame, compared to what I heard about Finland.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "Woke" or radical progressivism erodes liberalism bc

    1 elevates group over individual, we are no more than fixed race/sex/gender ID groups
    2 elevates 'lived experience' over scientific method & curtails free speech
    3 not just critical but cynical of ways of life that unite us


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1586676603823742981
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/192c94d8-56e9-11ed-8e9a-37443e2955cd?shareToken=c509b748a07df0b8f8748e90beefb95b

    Great article from The Times. Gives people a good background into the driving force of success for British Indians and Hindus. The UK could learn a lot from our cultural values, hopefully Rishi is able to impart some on the wider nation.

    In case anyone doesn't want to read it, the three keys are education, family and education. In that order. Every single one of my cousins is degree educated and all of them work in higher professional jobs or own and run businesses. There's simply no option of failure given to us as kids, parental support in education, high expectations and ongoing support after university are key to all of us being successful. White British families could learn a lot.

    There was a time when Scotland was like that, with a massive emphasis on education and a huge desire to "get on". It's tragic how far we have fallen away from those cultural values to those of envy and bitterness. I really don't know how it happened but it is in my lifetime. My parents and my wife's parents would recognise and endorse the values you espouse in a heartbeat.
    But Hinduism is growing in Scotland. I don't get it. How can Max's heralds of right living be on the up at the same time it's all going to rack and ruin? At least one of you must be wrong.
    That is nonsense. Hindus are very much on the up because their cultural values give them an edge over the indigenous population but one is not incompatible with the other. In the 20 years we had kids at DHS we saw Hindus go from a tiny minority to a significant presence in the school. Their parents were completely up for sacrifices to ensure that their kids got a proper education. They are the doctors, lawyers and accountants of the next generation. Already they are disproportionately more professional and earn significantly more than the average.

    The problem Scotland has is that there are not enough Hindus, or people who share those values, to carry the rest. And we have a government whose main focus is finding reasons to whine about the Union and how unfair everything is.
    David, you trying to say the small Tory contingent of absolute losers in Holyrood would benefit Scotland in any way shape or form. Better we shoot one foot off rather than let the Tories ahck both feet off and come back for our eyeballs.
    No Malcolm, I have already accepted that the Unionists are no better than the nationalists about this, both focus on blaming someone else and don't accept the consequences of their actions.

    I am bemoaning the lack of drive in Scotland, the ambition to succeed and build a new business, to get wealthy. People like that are no longer admired in our society as they once were. They are regarded as exploiters who think that they are somehow better than the rest and, to the extent that they do succeed, should be paying a lot more in taxes.

    It is a major problem for us, whether as part of the UK or as an independent nation. The generations of Scots who went out there and changed the world are a distant memory indeed. We need to rediscover our Calvinist work ethic without the loony religion that came with it.
This discussion has been closed.