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Rishi now odds on for the PM job – politicalbetting.com

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  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,906
    rcs1000 said:

    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712

    It's a well known strategy - when you're successfully beating off an invader - to detonate a nuclear weapon on your own territory.

    Everyone knows this.
    While I'm pretty sure that Putin could successfully beat off Zelensky, I'm fairly sure it would damage his macho man image.

    Unless the sixth Village Person is the look he is going for.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288
    edited October 2022
    stodge said:

    The plan clearly is to get Boris Johnson "momentum" (not in the Labour sense) before either Sunak or Mordaunt formally declare.

    Reports Johnson is closing on half the number of nominations required may suggest he has the early momentum but the journey from 40 to 100 may not be straightforward.

    Could we have three runners - Sunak, Mordaunt and Johnson? Maybe but there will be huge pressure on those who finish second and third next Monday to drop out voluntarily so the victor can go to the King on Monday evening or Tuesday morning.

    The other thought - Wilson was Prime Minister twice as were Baldwin and MacDonald. Gladstone was Prime Minister four times but I presume in all the above examples they were removed by a General Election and re-elected following another election. Johnson would be the first to be removed by his own party and re-elected by his own party all within the one parliament.

    Baldwin was Prime Minister three times, actually.

    But yes, they were all removed by elections and remained party leader (except Gladstone, who resigned in a huff in 1874 before returning in a bigger huff in 1878). The only party leader who ever came back for a second go in the twentieth century was Bonar Law in 1922, and he'd resigned for health reasons.

    Edit - I'm not including the early Labour leadership system where they didn't have a leader but one member of the party was elected as spokesman for one year. If you do include that MacDonald, Adams, Clynes and Henderson all had second goes.
  • stodge said:

    The plan clearly is to get Boris Johnson "momentum" (not in the Labour sense) before either Sunak or Mordaunt formally declare.

    Reports Johnson is closing on half the number of nominations required may suggest he has the early momentum but the journey from 40 to 100 may not be straightforward.

    Could we have three runners - Sunak, Mordaunt and Johnson? Maybe but there will be huge pressure on those who finish second and third next Monday to drop out voluntarily so the victor can go to the King on Monday evening or Tuesday morning.

    The other thought - Wilson was Prime Minister twice as were Baldwin and MacDonald. Gladstone was Prime Minister four times but I presume in all the above examples they were removed by a General Election and re-elected following another election. Johnson would be the first to be removed by his own party and re-elected by his own party all within the one parliament.

    Johnson would be the first to be removed by his own party and re-elected by his own party all within the one parliament season.

    He'll have been out of Downing Street for part of Autumn, and that's it. Ridiculous.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064
    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    In the interests of parliamentary governance, the rules of all the main parties should limit the leadership electorate to MPs when the party is in power.

    In the interests of getting my vote again they should limit it thus all the time.
    Tbf, if a party's members elect a leader while they are in opposition then at least the electorate get a chance to reject said leader (and party). Compare and contrast J Corbyn and L Truss.
    Labour in theory could elect a Corbyn in power too. Once candidates are nominated by Labour MPs then Labour members, registered supporters and affiliated supporters get the final say. Labour MPs don't even get to pick the last 2.

    If the idea is the membership only chooses the leader in opposition and MPs alone choose the leader in power it needs to apply to both parties.

    In 2007 John McDonnell in theory could have become PM. He wanted to stand and it was only Brownites bullying Labour MPs not to nominate him and crown their man that stopped that
    That might be your opinion, but the election is for party leader and there is no reason why all parties should have the same rules about electing their leaders. It's even worse if you mean "applies to both parties" as only Labour and Conservative, because there is no rule stating the the two largest parliamentary parties have to be Conservative and Labour.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    Look at those odds. Broken Starmer fully on the slide now.
  • EPG said:

    Look at those odds. Broken Starmer fully on the slide now.

    Good. No backtracking and introducing the Health and Social Care levy.

    #PM4PM
    #Boris4Bantz
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288
    Would be funny as fuck if May decided to let her name go forward and got more nominations than Johnson.

    That would be a humiliation he really couldn't explain away.
  • So it will be Boris. How many Tory MPs quit the party / parliament as a result?

    I will give you some ranges to consider
    <20
    20-40
    40+
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    The way to stop the farce of Boris returning is for Rishi Sunak, Penny Mordaunt, Jeremy Hunt, and Ben Wallace to declare a unifying approach viz:

    Sunak - PM
    Mordaunt - Foreign Secretary and Deputy PM
    Hunt - Chancellor
    Wallace - Defence Sec

    I think that should deliver the tories some sort of credibility to go into an election, probably next year.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712

    It's a well known strategy - when you're successfully beating off an invader - to detonate a nuclear weapon on your own territory.

    Everyone knows this.
    Especially when you don't have one. That makes it an even more cunning strategy.
    That just makes Ukraine's duplicitousness all the more mischievous. If countries without nukes can create false flags, then everyone's a threat and Russia will have to invade everyone because they're all going to nuke themselves ...
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    Heretical thought: I don't think Hunt is required as Chancellor unless the winner is in the right-wing camp, which seems to be a beaten docket this time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    ydoethur said:

    Would be funny as fuck if May decided to let her name go forward and got more nominations than Johnson.

    That would be a humiliation he really couldn't explain away.

    Since this is no time for amateurs and all, perhaps a Cabinet post at least beckons...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,485
    Heathener said:

    The way to stop the farce of Boris returning is for Rishi Sunak, Penny Mordaunt, Jeremy Hunt, and Ben Wallace to declare a unifying approach viz:

    Sunak - PM
    Mordaunt - Foreign Secretary and Deputy PM
    Hunt - Chancellor
    Wallace - Defence Sec

    I think that should deliver the tories some sort of credibility to go into an election, probably next year.

    Wallace would probably prefer Johnson as PM to Sunak.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    EPG said:

    Heretical thought: I don't think Hunt is required as Chancellor unless the winner is in the right-wing camp, which seems to be a beaten docket this time.

    Yes. Sunak doesn’t need Hunt.

    All the others do. Initially, at least.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Any Tory MP now supporting Johnson’s return should be tasered.
  • The ELE fail for the Tories is not stitching up a unity candidate. Scenarios:
    1. Boris doesn't get to 100 nominations. Choice of Sunak or Mordaunt. A "super-ERG" parliamentary group sabotage the "remainer elite" from day 1
    2. Boris does get to 100 nominations but loses. The Tory party channels the GOP and talks about stitch-ups and coups
    3. Boris wins. How many Tory MPs leave?

    Great fun.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    stodge said:

    The plan clearly is to get Boris Johnson "momentum" (not in the Labour sense) before either Sunak or Mordaunt formally declare.

    Reports Johnson is closing on half the number of nominations required may suggest he has the early momentum but the journey from 40 to 100 may not be straightforward.

    Could we have three runners - Sunak, Mordaunt and Johnson? Maybe but there will be huge pressure on those who finish second and third next Monday to drop out voluntarily so the victor can go to the King on Monday evening or Tuesday morning.

    The other thought - Wilson was Prime Minister twice as were Baldwin and MacDonald. Gladstone was Prime Minister four times but I presume in all the above examples they were removed by a General Election and re-elected following another election. Johnson would be the first to be removed by his own party and re-elected by his own party all within the one parliament.

    And Johnson will be far more motivated by stopping Sunak than in recovering the poisoned chalice of the top job.
  • PM - PM
    Chancellor - Hunt
    Home Secretary - Gove
    Foreign Secretary - Zahawi
    Defence - Wallace
    Business - Baker
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Who in the Truss Cabinet makes the cut under a new leader?

    I don't know what 'wing' people like Jayawardena, Donelan or Trevelyan are on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288
    EPG said:

    Heretical thought: I don't think Hunt is required as Chancellor unless the winner is in the right-wing camp, which seems to be a beaten docket this time.

    He's required as Chancellor because trying to explain away five chancellors in a year to the financial markets would be harder than my former Principal found it explaining his decision to punch that parent in the face.

    Whether that will save him if Johnson wins, bearing in mind that would send the markets into a tailspin anyway, I don't know.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,051
    PJH said:

    From a Labour point of view. I don't think we really care whether it's Sunak, Mordaunt or Johnson - much of a muchness, even though they're all quite different characters. Each of the three have strengths and weaknesses, and all are beatable. If you could be so good as to go for Braverman or JRM, though, I'd be even more confident.

    No, Al.

    You must apply the Richie Benaud test to this. Ask yourself what the opposing Captain would most like you to do, and do the opposite.

    Starmer would least like Sunak and/or Mordaunt. Boris would bring a broad grin to his face.

    The others are too ridiculous to contemplate.
    Don't agree. Boris would win back many of the white male w/c. Mordaunt is highly risky and could backfire badly. Sunak I'm less sure about.

    Anyway, Richie Benaud, as a leg spinner, says - bowl them a googly! JRM.
    If I was Starmer I would be laughing all the way to the election if Johnson was re-instated. The Tories would be a laughing stock - forcing one unsuitable PM out, only to replace him with someone incompetent, then immediately change their minds again? Hahaha! And a large chunk of MPs won't support him.

    Mordaunt is untested. I'd like to see her run a big department for more than a few months. On the evidence of the first leadership election I don't think she cuts it. Big risk. I don't think I'd worry.

    Sunak has shown he has the capability, but again he hasn't been tested in a big spending department. And a (different) large chunk of the party won't support him and will make life difficult for him. Probably the one Starmer would prefer not to have given the choice but even then I don't think he'll lose any sleep.

    (Edited - corrected accidentally deleted words on Mordaunt)
    I agree with this analysis.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    MikeL said:

    Imagine if the Final is Boris v Sunak and Sunak does win with the members.

    Just think how strong a position that would put him in - and how much it would instantly improve the reputation of the Conservative Party with the wider public.

    Except the ones who voted for Boris rather than the Tories and might have come back in 2024.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    The ELE fail for the Tories is not stitching up a unity candidate. Scenarios:
    1. Boris doesn't get to 100 nominations. Choice of Sunak or Mordaunt. A "super-ERG" parliamentary group sabotage the "remainer elite" from day 1
    2. Boris does get to 100 nominations but loses. The Tory party channels the GOP and talks about stitch-ups and coups
    3. Boris wins. How many Tory MPs leave?

    Great fun.

    Day ine of Sunak premiership 20 Spartans, Boris and Farage hold a press conference launching 'The New Boz Spartan Express Party'
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !


    Correction: ... replace with a useless pathological liar PM
    Correction: replace with a useless drunken lazy incompetent pathological liar and criminal as PM.
    Lloyd-George? He’d be great but I thought he was dead.
    I'll ask my dad.
    "BoJo knew my mother / Mother knew BoJo"

    (NOT a reference to ANY PBers mom!)
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    kle4 said:

    Who in the Truss Cabinet makes the cut under a new leader?

    I don't know what 'wing' people like Jayawardena, Donelan or Trevelyan are on.

    Whichever one is mostly about banging on about wokerati.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    EPG said:

    Heretical thought: I don't think Hunt is required as Chancellor unless the winner is in the right-wing camp, which seems to be a beaten docket this time.

    He's required as Chancellor because trying to explain away five chancellors in a year to the financial markets would be harder than my former Principal found it explaining his decision to punch that parent in the face.

    Whether that will save him if Johnson wins, bearing in mind that would send the markets into a tailspin anyway, I don't know.
    I was aiming for his dace, yeronner.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,074
    Sunak received 88 nominations in the first round last time with 8 proper candidates. 101 in the second round when down to 6.

    Given his general approach has been vindicated vs Truss, that can only go up.

    I think the other candidates will struggle unless the field is very narrow.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288
    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    EPG said:

    Heretical thought: I don't think Hunt is required as Chancellor unless the winner is in the right-wing camp, which seems to be a beaten docket this time.

    He's required as Chancellor because trying to explain away five chancellors in a year to the financial markets would be harder than my former Principal found it explaining his decision to punch that parent in the face.

    Whether that will save him if Johnson wins, bearing in mind that would send the markets into a tailspin anyway, I don't know.
    I was aiming for his dace, yeronner.
    Still sounds a bit fishy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,485
    @JM_Szuba
    JUST IN: White House NSC coordinator John Kirby says Iranian military personnel were on the ground in Crimea assisting Russian pilots who bombarded Kyiv with Iranian drones on Monday.

    "Iran is now directly engaged on the ground," Kirby says.


    https://twitter.com/JM_Szuba/status/1583152559144910848
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited October 2022
    If this does become Rishi vs Boris in parliament then the chaos is about to get a lot worse. Because Boris will refuse to step aside and we would probably end up with a repeat performance:

    A leader who doesn't command the confidence of his MPs.

    Plus potentially resignations, defections, and the possibility of tory MPs refusing to support the Gov't in a vote of no confidence.

    It will be one hell of a mess.

    I think the Conservative Parliamentary Party, and the wider membership, long ago pressed self-destruct. I can't see the factions uniting with a sensible plan in the space of one week.
  • Given the scope of UK national & political crisis, suggest that GONU is the best option.

    AND I repeat my suggest for a real (as opposed to "true') Government of All the Muppets.

    Lead of course by Kermit - the Grand Old Frog. (Whom I envision wearing a Gladstonian wing collar.)

    With Miss Piggy as Deputy PM and also Chief Whip. (She'd make current DPM look like a tobacco-flavored marshmellow.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Ratters said:

    Sunak received 88 nominations in the first round last time with 8 proper candidates. 101 in the second round when down to 6.

    Given his general approach has been vindicated vs Truss, that can only go up.

    Mordaunt and Wallace did back Truss after all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288

    @JM_Szuba
    JUST IN: White House NSC coordinator John Kirby says Iranian military personnel were on the ground in Crimea assisting Russian pilots who bombarded Kyiv with Iranian drones on Monday.

    "Iran is now directly engaged on the ground," Kirby says.


    https://twitter.com/JM_Szuba/status/1583152559144910848

    I'm surprised they have soldiers to spare. After all, there are all those girls to murder for daring to say that they are human.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Anyone not piling on Johnson at these odds is crazy. It’s free money.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,485
    Heathener said:

    If this does become Rishi vs Boris in parliament then the chaos is about to get a lot worse. Because Boris will refuse to step aside and we would probably end up with a repeat performance:

    A leader who doesn't command the confidence of his MPs.

    Plus potentially resignations, defections, and the possibility of tory MPs refusing to support the Gov't in a vote of no confidence.

    It will be one hell of a mess.

    I think the Conservative Parliamentary Party, and the wider membership, long ago pressed self-destruct.

    I think it would swing the other way. Conservative MPs would have far less scope to be disloyal and with isolated exceptions, would have to swallow any antipathy they have towards Johnson.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    DougSeal said:

    Anyone not piling on Johnson at these odds is crazy. It’s free money.

    What is really crazy is I genuinely don't know whether you mean back or lay.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,269

    The ELE fail for the Tories is not stitching up a unity candidate. Scenarios:
    1. Boris doesn't get to 100 nominations. Choice of Sunak or Mordaunt. A "super-ERG" parliamentary group sabotage the "remainer elite" from day 1
    2. Boris does get to 100 nominations but loses. The Tory party channels the GOP and talks about stitch-ups and coups
    3. Boris wins. How many Tory MPs leave?

    Great fun.

    The special thing about scenario 2 is that, because the vote is being run online, it probably wouldn't be that hard for the process to be compromised so that there was genuine doubt about the result.

    Having the member's vote be online is literally the worst option that could be chosen to run a leadership election. The most acceptable way to avoid that from happening is for one of the candidates to receive 258 nominations, so that they're the only one to reach the 100 MP threshold.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    If this does become Rishi vs Boris in parliament then the chaos is about to get a lot worse. Because Boris will refuse to step aside and we would probably end up with a repeat performance:

    A leader who doesn't command the confidence of his MPs.

    Plus potentially resignations, defections, and the possibility of tory MPs refusing to support the Gov't in a vote of no confidence.

    It will be one hell of a mess.

    I think the Conservative Parliamentary Party, and the wider membership, long ago pressed self-destruct.

    I think it would swing the other way. Conservative MPs would have far less scope to be disloyal and with isolated exceptions, would have to swallow any antipathy they have towards Johnson.
    No chance William. Too much history. Too much insider knowledge. It will cause mayhem.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288
    Ishmael_Z said:

    DougSeal said:

    Anyone not piling on Johnson at these odds is crazy. It’s free money.

    What is really crazy is I genuinely don't know whether you mean back or lay.
    With Johnson, always bet on a lay.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,944
    Heathener said:

    The way to stop the farce of Boris returning is for Rishi Sunak, Penny Mordaunt, Jeremy Hunt, and Ben Wallace to declare a unifying approach viz:

    Sunak - PM
    Mordaunt - Foreign Secretary and Deputy PM
    Hunt - Chancellor
    Wallace - Defence Sec

    I think that should deliver the tories some sort of credibility to go into an election, probably next year.

    Wallace just never gets involved in these things. He won’t now.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,745
    edited October 2022
    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited October 2022
    There has to be a crass joke somewhere about BJs being wonderful… but when you had one five minutes ago, another one is the last thing you want right now.

    I’m sorry.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,269

    @JM_Szuba
    JUST IN: White House NSC coordinator John Kirby says Iranian military personnel were on the ground in Crimea assisting Russian pilots who bombarded Kyiv with Iranian drones on Monday.

    "Iran is now directly engaged on the ground," Kirby says.


    https://twitter.com/JM_Szuba/status/1583152559144910848

    Does Ukraine get to pick a country to join in the war on its side?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited October 2022
    Could go up even more before too long - it's already out of date.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,485
    Another Boris backer not listed by Guido:

    @karlmccartney
    One of the main reasons for the largest majority I have achieved after various General Elections I have stood in, in Lincoln, is because @BorisJohnson was our Prime Minister & Leader of @Conservatives & promised to deliver Brexit.
    Many of my constituents want him back.
    I do too.


    https://twitter.com/karlmccartney/status/1583144223670697985
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650

    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Peelite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Peelite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Liz might not be done in cumulative tenure :smile:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,705
    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    EPG said:

    Heretical thought: I don't think Hunt is required as Chancellor unless the winner is in the right-wing camp, which seems to be a beaten docket this time.

    He's required as Chancellor because trying to explain away five chancellors in a year to the financial markets would be harder than my former Principal found it explaining his decision to punch that parent in the face.

    Whether that will save him if Johnson wins, bearing in mind that would send the markets into a tailspin anyway, I don't know.
    I was aiming for his dace, yeronner.
    Mullet, surely.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,269

    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Liz Truss - the only British Prime Minister whose tenure occurred wholly within one meteorological season.
  • PM - PM
    Chancellor - Hunt
    Home Secretary - Gove
    Foreign Secretary - Zahawi
    Defence - Wallace
    Business - Baker

    Business- Baker? Well I suppose he'd be good at cooking the books.....

    Ok, it's time for my coat.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 639

    The ELE fail for the Tories is not stitching up a unity candidate. Scenarios:
    1. Boris doesn't get to 100 nominations. Choice of Sunak or Mordaunt. A "super-ERG" parliamentary group sabotage the "remainer elite" from day 1
    2. Boris does get to 100 nominations but loses. The Tory party channels the GOP and talks about stitch-ups and coups
    3. Boris wins. How many Tory MPs leave?

    Great fun.

    Scenario 2 is the only one that gives the Tories a future, but is the least likely, IMO.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933

    @JM_Szuba
    JUST IN: White House NSC coordinator John Kirby says Iranian military personnel were on the ground in Crimea assisting Russian pilots who bombarded Kyiv with Iranian drones on Monday.

    "Iran is now directly engaged on the ground," Kirby says.


    https://twitter.com/JM_Szuba/status/1583152559144910848

    Does Ukraine get to pick a country to join in the war on its side?
    If the story is true, I think Ukraine just got Israel.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,381

    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Liz Truss - the only British Prime Minister whose tenure occurred wholly within one meteorological season.
    Less than this half-term.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    If the Guido list is correct in the number of Whips Boris has, then that’s significant. If.
  • TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Of above group, think Earl of Bute is closest to being political soulmate to Liz Truss.

    Though of course his Lordship famously had a close, personal relationship with KGIII.

    LT & KCIII? Not so much!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,751

    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Poor George Canning, knocked off his perch. Although his premiership was merely a short epilogue to the rest of his long and illustrious career - if the only thing you know about Canning was that he was, until this year, the shortest-tenured British PM then you really don't know him at all.
  • PJH said:

    The ELE fail for the Tories is not stitching up a unity candidate. Scenarios:
    1. Boris doesn't get to 100 nominations. Choice of Sunak or Mordaunt. A "super-ERG" parliamentary group sabotage the "remainer elite" from day 1
    2. Boris does get to 100 nominations but loses. The Tory party channels the GOP and talks about stitch-ups and coups

    3. Boris wins. How many Tory MPs
    leave?

    Great fun.

    Scenario 2 is the only one that gives the Tories a future, but is the least likely, IMO.
    My money is on Johnson although not much of it. I can't see him standing aside for a Rishi coronation given how much he loathes him and bears a grudge.

    The other consideration is just how much sentiment is turning very quickly against the rich. Andy Burnham was calling today for a wealth supertax and, with the luxury goods companies smashing it (Hermes smashed consensus today), the idea of a rich ex-hedge fund manager taking power is going to go down like a bucket of sick. Farage's comment about the global elites shows where things are heading.

  • PJHPJH Posts: 639
    Just reflecting that I was on holiday in early July when finally things came to a head and Boris was forced out. Since then the "government" has been in a constant state of either crisis or stasis and almost no actual governing has been going on, and they aren't finished yet.

    It's a good job nothing important has been going on...
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    7:06pm: One minister, asked who they want to take over as leader, says: “I don’t give a f*ck anymore. I’m going to find a bar.”

    7:27pm: Said minister is now in a bar.

    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1583157716528177153
    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1583163081365995520
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437

    Another Boris backer not listed by Guido:

    @karlmccartney
    One of the main reasons for the largest majority I have achieved after various General Elections I have stood in, in Lincoln, is because @BorisJohnson was our Prime Minister & Leader of @Conservatives & promised to deliver Brexit.
    Many of my constituents want him back.
    I do too.


    https://twitter.com/karlmccartney/status/1583144223670697985

    Who are these whoppers?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288

    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Poor George Canning, knocked off his perch. Although his premiership was merely a short epilogue to the rest of his long and illustrious career - if the only thing you know about Canning was that he was, until this year, the shortest-tenured British PM then you really don't know him at all.
    He tended to serve a duel purpose in government.
  • Lord Canning was insufferably woke. For example, in opposing the Holy Alliance - the nerve!

    from his wiki page

    Canning was Foreign Secretary (1807–1809) under the Duke of Portland. Canning was the dominant figure in the cabinet and directed the seizure of the Danish fleet in 1807 to assure Britain's naval supremacy over Napoleon. In 1809, he was wounded in a duel with his rival Lord Castlereagh and was shortly thereafter passed over as a successor to the Duke of Portland in favour of Spencer Perceval. He rejected overtures to serve as Foreign Secretary again because of Castlereagh's presence in Perceval's Cabinet, and he remained out of high office until after Perceval was assassinated in 1812.

    Canning subsequently served under the new Prime Minister the Earl of Liverpool as British Ambassador to Portugal (1814–1816), President of the Board of Control (1816–1821) and Foreign Secretary and Leader of the House of Commons (1822–1827). King George IV disliked Canning, and there were efforts to frustrate his foreign policies. Canning, however, successfully built wide public support for his policies. The historian Paul Hayes argues that he scored major achievements in diplomatic relations regarding Spain and Portugal, by helping to guarantee the independence of the American colonies of Portugal and Spain. His policies ensured a major trading advantage to British merchants and supported the Americans' Monroe Doctrine. The historian G. M. Trevelyan stated:

    For five years England had been guided by the genius of Canning, and seldom have so much brilliancy and so much wisdom combined to produce such happy results. The constitutional medium through which that genius worked was the loyal friendship of the prime minister, Lord Liverpool.[1]

    When Lord Liverpool resigned in April 1827, Canning was chosen to succeed him as Prime Minister, ahead of the Duke of Wellington and Sir Robert Peel. Both of them declined to serve under Canning, and the Tories split between Peel and Wellington's Ultra-Tories and the Canningites. Canning then invited several Whigs to join his cabinet. However, his health collapsed, and he died in office in August 1827, after 119 days in office, the second shortest tenure ever of any British Prime Minister to have completed their period in office, as of October 2022.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 639
    pigeon said:

    7:06pm: One minister, asked who they want to take over as leader, says: “I don’t give a f*ck anymore. I’m going to find a bar.”

    7:27pm: Said minister is now in a bar.

    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1583157716528177153
    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1583163081365995520

    Thank you for sharing that. I don't often laugh out loud at my laptop!
  • pigeon said:

    7:06pm: One minister, asked who they want to take over as leader, says: “I don’t give a f*ck anymore. I’m going to find a bar.”

    7:27pm: Said minister is now in a bar.

    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1583157716528177153
    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1583163081365995520

    Deputy PM? Perhaps a cigar bar?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    pigeon said:

    7:06pm: One minister, asked who they want to take over as leader, says: “I don’t give a f*ck anymore. I’m going to find a bar.”

    7:27pm: Said minister is now in a bar.

    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1583157716528177153
    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1583163081365995520

    At last, a minister achieving their promises.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    Heathener said:

    If this does become Rishi vs Boris in parliament then the chaos is about to get a lot worse. Because Boris will refuse to step aside and we would probably end up with a repeat performance:

    A leader who doesn't command the confidence of his MPs.

    Plus potentially resignations, defections, and the possibility of tory MPs refusing to support the Gov't in a vote of no confidence.

    It will be one hell of a mess.

    I think the Conservative Parliamentary Party, and the wider membership, long ago pressed self-destruct. I can't see the factions uniting with a sensible plan in the space of one week.

    Agreed. There's now a real risk of the party fragmenting, and even if it manages to row in behind one leader there's the small matter of the budget. Hunt will have to propose tax rises and spending cuts, but he's going to really struggle to find a combination of measures that will narrow the deficit enough and that his own MPs will also vote for. The strop over the triple lock is just the beginning.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    If Boris comes back then the Tories deserve everything they get. I used to be a Tory member. I have never voted Labour. This would probably push me to do it!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,033

    @JM_Szuba
    JUST IN: White House NSC coordinator John Kirby says Iranian military personnel were on the ground in Crimea assisting Russian pilots who bombarded Kyiv with Iranian drones on Monday.

    "Iran is now directly engaged on the ground," Kirby says.


    https://twitter.com/JM_Szuba/status/1583152559144910848

    Tough for the Trumpies as they hate Iran and love Russia.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    OGH predicts Johnson will struggle to get the 100
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    Reportedly, at least one Tory MP (Chope) has now gone so far as to call for a General Election, apparently branding his own party as "ungovernable." All the wheels have now come off the wagon and it's sinking into the mud.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    IanB2 said:

    OGH predicts Johnson will struggle to get the 100

    He’s at 39 already (including his fat self).
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732

    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Liz Truss - the only British Prime Minister whose tenure occurred wholly within one meteorological season.
    An autumn of discontent.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    OGH says the LibDems are poised to win in Warrington North
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    pigeon said:

    Reportedly, at least one Tory MP (Chope) has now gone so far as to call for a General Election, apparently branding his own party as "ungovernable." All the wheels have now come off the wagon and it's sinking into the mud.

    He’s also on the Boris list, though.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    Oops, sorry that last one was old news.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,649

    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Well Truss' place in history is at least assured.

    She will forever be the answer to that tricky pub quiz and Pointless question, who was the shortest serving PM in UK history?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,317
    IanB2 said:

    OGH says the LibDems are poised to win in Warrington North

    Is this a local byelection ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,306
    I know we are all back into Tory leadership election mode, but some important work is strongly suggesting @leon is right about the origins of sarsCOV2.
    https://twitter.com/WashburneAlex/status/1583145276151189504
  • IanB2 said:

    OGH predicts Johnson will struggle to get the 100

    The Truss MP vote consolidates around Johnson in likelihood

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,317

    IanB2 said:

    OGH predicts Johnson will struggle to get the 100

    He’s at 39 already (including his fat self).
    He seems to have some momentum at the moment.

    It beggars belief, given the reasons for his departure, Tory MPs would seriously want him back.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    HYUFD said:

    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Well Truss' place in history is at least assured.

    She will forever be the answer to that tricky pub quiz and Pointless question, who was the shortest serving PM in UK history?
    She might have lost the record by Christmas. It rather depends on whether your party picks a vaguely credible successor or a total nut.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,305
    ...
    stodge said:

    The plan clearly is to get Boris Johnson "momentum" (not in the Labour sense) before either Sunak or Mordaunt formally declare.

    Reports Johnson is closing on half the number of nominations required may suggest he has the early momentum but the journey from 40 to 100 may not be straightforward.

    Could we have three runners - Sunak, Mordaunt and Johnson? Maybe but there will be huge pressure on those who finish second and third next Monday to drop out voluntarily so the victor can go to the King on Monday evening or Tuesday morning.

    The other thought - Wilson was Prime Minister twice as were Baldwin and MacDonald. Gladstone was Prime Minister four times but I presume in all the above examples they were removed by a General Election and re-elected following another election. Johnson would be the first to be removed by his own party and re-elected by his own party all within the one parliament.

    Three months ago Johnson was persona non grata, now he is the returning prodigal son.

    It's a funny old game Saint.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 57% (+8)
    CON: 22% (-6)
    LDM: 7% (-3)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    RFM: 3% (+1)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 20 Oct.
    Changes w/ 13-14 Oct.


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1583171971944062976
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280

    TOP (BOTTOM?) TEN Prime Ministers by shortness of tenure in cumulative terms (after Wikipedia):

    Liz Truss - 45 days (Conservative resigned 2022)
    George Canning - 119 days (Tory (Canningite), died 1827)
    Viscount Goderich - 144 days (Tory (Canningite), resigned 1828)
    Bonar Law - 211 days (Conservative (Unionist), illness 1923)
    Duke of Devonshire - 225 days (Whig, replaced 1757)
    Earl of Shelburne - 266 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1783)
    Earl of Bute - 317 days (Tory, resigned 1763)
    Alec Douglas-Home - 364 days (Conservative (Unionist), lost election 1964)
    Lord Grenville - 1 year 42 days (Whig, replaced 1807)
    Duke of Grafton - 1 year 106 days (Whig (Chathamite), resigned 1770)

    Liz Truss - the only British Prime Minister whose tenure occurred wholly within one meteorological season.
    Exchange rate

    Truss 1p
    Canning 2p
    Shelburne 5p
    Grafton 10p
    Gordon Brown 20p
    Disraeli 50p
    Earl of Liverpool £1
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,369
    Looks like we are spared the possibility of another Braverman leadership campaign, she is out to 280.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,305
    AlistairM said:

    If Boris comes back then the Tories deserve everything they get. I used to be a Tory member. I have never voted Labour. This would probably push me to do it!

    Don't do it. Your private parts will fall off and you will no longer understand gender.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 639
    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    OGH predicts Johnson will struggle to get the 100

    He’s at 39 already (including his fat self).
    He seems to have some momentum at the moment.

    It beggars belief, given the reasons for his departure, Tory MPs would seriously want him back.
    It does indeed, and if so they are even madder than I already thought they were, and deserve to be cast into oblivion.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836

    IanB2 said:

    OGH predicts Johnson will struggle to get the 100

    The Truss MP vote consolidates around Johnson in likelihood

    Once bitten, twice bitten, thrice bitten, as the old saying goes.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    Deleted
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Boris 4/1
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Boris 3/1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,081
    pigeon said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 57% (+8)
    CON: 22% (-6)
    LDM: 7% (-3)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    RFM: 3% (+1)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 20 Oct.
    Changes w/ 13-14 Oct.


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1583171971944062976

    You have to roll the dice with Boris surely here ?
    Sunak won't hold your seat, not of you're North of Watford anyway
  • Breaking News!

    Jacob Rees-Moog announces his support for new general election in '22.

    A re-run of the general election of 1722. Given that the first vote was clearly rigged against the Tories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1722_British_general_election
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,369
    The odds on Boris are still good. It is this because of this phenomenon where people can't believe it will happen because it is so ridiculous, like Trump and Brexit.
  • Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    OGH predicts Johnson will struggle to get the 100

    He’s at 39 already (including his fat self).
    He seems to have some momentum at the moment.

    It beggars belief, given the reasons for his
    departure, Tory MPs would seriously want him back.
    Look at the other two (likely) choices:

    - Sunak - smug, rich ex-banker and hedge fund guy married to an Indian billionaire heiress who will come in talking about the need for cuts and for people to take the necessary pain. Plus he's 5'6"
    - Mordaunt - questionable relationship with the truth, seen as too pro-woke by many MPs, not particularly impressive in the hustings.

    Not exactly spoilt for choice .

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,485
    @CatNeilan
    Some mutterings about whether Boris Johnson can hit the 100 mark but both those in the pro and anti-Boris camps seem fairly convinced he'll sail through.

    One supporter says they're "looking to have 50 public tonight".

    One critic estimates he gets 💥140 💥 on first ballot


    https://twitter.com/CatNeilan/status/1583171589985562626
This discussion has been closed.