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Rishi now odds on for the PM job – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.

    He's been listening to me, good. Obviously wants to avoid a three way split ambiguity.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,259
    ping said:

    Be cautious trusting Guido’s spreadsheet. He’s clearly batting for team Boris.

    The SS currently gives Boris 23 vs Sunak 18 & Penny 6

    Boris includes 2x “A whip” and 1x “1992 member” (?!)

    It's enough to learn that the dipshits have learnt nothing and forgotten nothing of the Boris Johnson experience, though.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,269
    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !

    The return of Johnson is the option with the greatest narrative and drama potential. I can understand why it would be catnip for the media.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    If the results are 250 Rishi, 101 Johnson, then members will go with Rishi.

    But if it’s something like 200 Rishi 151 Johnson, they will go with Johnson.

    Beg to differ. Members will go with Mr J either way.
    That's why Johnson would pull out imo.

    He cannot hope to lead the PCP through the coming economic turmoil if he doesn't have the support of at least a majority of them.
    Hmm, iswn't that a mere detail? But you might be right.
    Presumably in the (unlikely) event Boris became PM, Hunt would resign immediately.

    That wouldn't really soothe the markets.
    That would be quite petulant from Hunt and negate any goodwill he gained by steadying the ship after Kwarteng.
    Goodwill he needs because...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,259
    kle4 said:

    If the results are 250 Rishi, 101 Johnson, then members will go with Rishi.

    But if it’s something like 200 Rishi 151 Johnson, they will go with Johnson.

    I'm not sure Johnson can get to 100 MPs to nominate him.

    He might have a high floor but a low ceiling. I'd say about 80 MPs.
    Enough of a stitch up to anger some MPs to quit in disgust?
    Far bigger risk the other side of that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,476
    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.

    That is patently to get the person who comes second with MPs to withdraw. Members get no say.
  • MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.

    Yes. And if it is Sunak / Mordaunt then surely she accepts Foreign Secretary from him and it is done.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    There is, of course, the possibility that Sunak, Penny and Boris knock each other out in a weekend of bloodletting, handing the crown to Hunt or Wallace on Monday.

    Nothing would surprise me, with this shitshow.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.

    It is a recipe for making a bad situation worse. What does it achieve? Unless there is a secret subclause which says members get it right or get ignored.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.

    That is patently to get the person who comes second with MPs to withdraw. Members get no say.
    If Johnson comes second there’s no chance he’ll withdraw as the membership will vote for him .
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,259
    ping said:

    There is, of course, the possibility that Sunak, Penny and Boris knock each other out in a weekend of bloodletting, handing the crown to Hunt or Wallace on Monday.

    No. Sunak definitely has the noms in all scenarios.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.

    That is patently to get the person who comes second with MPs to withdraw. Members get no say.

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.

    That is patently to get the person who comes second with MPs to withdraw. Members get no say.
    Good.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,485
    edited October 2022
    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.



    "There will be an indicative vote of MPs once there are two candidates.

    The first ballot of MPs will then be held between 1530 and 1730 on Monday 24. If there are three candidates, the candidate with the fewest number of votes will be eliminated. The result will be announced at 1800hrs. If a second vote is needed (indicative), this will be held between 1830 and 2030 on Monday 24. The result will be announced at 2100."


    From the CCHQ statement. Fascinating - and designed to maximally push for no members vote.

    But knowing recent form the indicative vote will go 310-40 and the members will vote the other way by 50.1-49.9%
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !


    Correction: ... replace with a useless pathological liar PM
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288
    ping said:

    There is, of course, the possibility that Sunak, Penny and Boris knock each other out in a weekend of bloodletting, handing the crown to Hunt or Wallace on Monday.

    I take it if nobody gets the required 100 nominations, then they decide a candidate among themselves on Monday and have them acclaimed like in the good ol' days of the Magic Circle?

    That said, Sunak has one peerless advantage. He already has a hundred backers from the first round of the last election, and it's hard to see them switching away now.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    The media are trying to boost Johnson. It might be the best route to a General Election.

    There are many Conservatives who would sooner an election than having him back.
  • From a Labour point of view. I don't think we really care whether it's Sunak, Mordaunt or Johnson - much of a muchness, even though they're all quite different characters. Each of the three have strengths and weaknesses, and all are beatable. If you could be so good as to go for Braverman or JRM, though, I'd be even more confident.

    No, Al.

    You must apply the Richie Benaud test to this. Ask yourself what the opposing Captain would most like you to do, and do the opposite.

    Starmer would least like Sunak and/or Mordaunt. Boris would bring a broad grin to his face.

    The others are too ridiculous to contemplate.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,259
    algarkirk said:

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.



    "There will be an indicative vote of MPs once there are two candidates.

    The first ballot of MPs will then be held between 1530 and 1730 on Monday 24. If there are three candidates, the candidate with the fewest number of votes will be eliminated. The result will be announced at 1800hrs. If a second vote is needed (indicative), this will be held between 1830 and 2030 on Monday 24. The result will be announced at 2100."


    From the CCHQ statement. Fascinating - and designed to maximally push for no members vote.

    But knowing recent form the indicative vote will go 310-40 and the members will vote the other way by 50.1-49.9%
    If Sunak has any sense he should be heavily lobbying the Mail.

    They all read The Mail. They believe what they read in The Mail.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    edited October 2022
    algarkirk said:

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.



    "There will be an indicative vote of MPs once there are two candidates.

    The first ballot of MPs will then be held between 1530 and 1730 on Monday 24. If there are three candidates, the candidate with the fewest number of votes will be eliminated. The result will be announced at 1800hrs. If a second vote is needed (indicative), this will be held between 1830 and 2030 on Monday 24. The result will be announced at 2100."


    From the CCHQ statement. Fascinating - and designed to maximally push for no members vote.

    But knowing recent form the indicative vote will go 310-40 and the members will vote the other way by 50.1-49.9%
    It’s still a bit confusing. It says indicative vote of needed . Who decides if it’s needed ?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,369
    kle4 said:

    So, once her successor is elected, will Truss stay on in the Commons? A by-election to come in South West Norfolk?

    3 former PMs in the Commons? Fun stuff.

    Her career is finished, her legacy that of a punchline, she might as well stick out the parliamentary term and pick up the paycheck - she won't be getting the big bucks May and Boris get on the speaking circuit.
    It is quite sad for her because her fate is out of her control. To me she symbolises everything that is wrong: the flaws of Camerons A list, the absurdity in thinking that 'Thatcherism' is the answer to everything, the vacuity of the Instagram era, the deterioration of order and stability in Whitehall, the acquiescence of people who should know better with Boris Johnson and Brexit, and the fact that political parties have largely become the refuge of the mentally deranged.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    edited October 2022
    If Sunak wins the indicative vote he will win unless it is incedibly close.
  • Roger said:

    The media are trying to boost Johnson. It might be the best route to a General Election.

    There are many Conservatives who would sooner an election than having him back.

    Much as I would love it, I cannot see any route whatever to an early GE.

    It doesn't matter which pollster you take, just key in the numbers to Election Calculus and you will see why the Tories cannot allow it under any circumstances.
  • Boko already up to 25 Mps declaring for him...

    Jesus Christ
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    nico679 said:

    algarkirk said:

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.



    "There will be an indicative vote of MPs once there are two candidates.

    The first ballot of MPs will then be held between 1530 and 1730 on Monday 24. If there are three candidates, the candidate with the fewest number of votes will be eliminated. The result will be announced at 1800hrs. If a second vote is needed (indicative), this will be held between 1830 and 2030 on Monday 24. The result will be announced at 2100."


    From the CCHQ statement. Fascinating - and designed to maximally push for no members vote.

    But knowing recent form the indicative vote will go 310-40 and the members will vote the other way by 50.1-49.9%
    It’s still a bit confusing. It says indicative vote of needed . Who decides if it’s needed ?
    It's needed if there are still two candidates left.

    Candidate 2 may back out.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    nico679 said:

    algarkirk said:

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.



    "There will be an indicative vote of MPs once there are two candidates.

    The first ballot of MPs will then be held between 1530 and 1730 on Monday 24. If there are three candidates, the candidate with the fewest number of votes will be eliminated. The result will be announced at 1800hrs. If a second vote is needed (indicative), this will be held between 1830 and 2030 on Monday 24. The result will be announced at 2100."


    From the CCHQ statement. Fascinating - and designed to maximally push for no members vote.

    But knowing recent form the indicative vote will go 310-40 and the members will vote the other way by 50.1-49.9%
    It’s still a bit confusing. It says indicative vote of needed . Who decides if it’s needed ?
    Its needed if there were 3 in the first vote, if only 2 in the first it is itself the indicative vote
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288

    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !


    Correction: ... replace with a useless pathological liar PM
    Correction: replace with a useless drunken lazy incompetent pathological liar and criminal as PM.
  • MikeL said:

    If Sunak wins the indicative vote he will win unless it is incedibly close.

    But the members are degenerate giffers. They don't want him. And before HY posts another poll, I am talking about real world.

    Easy to say "yeah OK Sunak" a few days ago in Theory. But in practice...?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    edited October 2022
    ping said:

    Be cautious trusting Guido’s spreadsheet. He’s clearly batting for team Boris.

    The SS currently gives Boris 23 vs Sunak 18 & Penny 6

    Boris includes 2x “A whip” and 1x “1992 member” (?!)

    Amusingly it also has "Holly Mumbly-Croft" listed as a Johnson backer. Speak-up for Boris!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !


    Correction: ... replace with a useless pathological liar PM
    Correction: replace with a useless drunken lazy incompetent pathological liar and criminal as PM.
    Lloyd-George? He’d be great but I thought he was dead.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    And no candidate reaches 100 nominations .... titter.... :smiley:
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273

    Boko already up to 25 Mps declaring for him...

    Jesus Christ

    Guido can just make things up to suggest there’s momentum .
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,331

    From a Labour point of view. I don't think we really care whether it's Sunak, Mordaunt or Johnson - much of a muchness, even though they're all quite different characters. Each of the three have strengths and weaknesses, and all are beatable. If you could be so good as to go for Braverman or JRM, though, I'd be even more confident.

    No, Al.

    You must apply the Richie Benaud test to this. Ask yourself what the opposing Captain would most like you to do, and do the opposite.

    Starmer would least like Sunak and/or Mordaunt. Boris would bring a broad grin to his face.

    The others are too ridiculous to contemplate.
    Don't agree. Boris would win back many of the white male w/c. Mordaunt is highly risky and could backfire badly. Sunak I'm less sure about.

    Anyway, Richie Benaud, as a leg spinner, says - bowl them a googly! JRM.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,258
    edited October 2022

    nico679 said:

    algarkirk said:

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.



    "There will be an indicative vote of MPs once there are two candidates.

    The first ballot of MPs will then be held between 1530 and 1730 on Monday 24. If there are three candidates, the candidate with the fewest number of votes will be eliminated. The result will be announced at 1800hrs. If a second vote is needed (indicative), this will be held between 1830 and 2030 on Monday 24. The result will be announced at 2100."


    From the CCHQ statement. Fascinating - and designed to maximally push for no members vote.

    But knowing recent form the indicative vote will go 310-40 and the members will vote the other way by 50.1-49.9%
    It’s still a bit confusing. It says indicative vote of needed . Who decides if it’s needed ?
    It's needed if there are still two candidates left.

    Candidate 2 may back out.
    Were 3 candidates get 100 nominations if the one that comes second pulled out the one that came 3rd goes to the members as the other choice
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    Anyone know who @Tissue_Price will support?
  • Roger said:

    The media are trying to boost Johnson. It might be the best route to a General Election.

    There are many Conservatives who would sooner an election than having him back.

    Much as I would love it, I cannot see any route whatever to an early GE.

    It doesn't matter which pollster you take, just key in the numbers to Election Calculus and you will see why the Tories cannot allow it under any circumstances.
    The route to an immediate GE has closed, but early is still open.

    Whomever becomes PM will have no mandate and a mountain of cuts to implement. They will not be popular and will not be seen as legitimate.

    We are a representative democracy. When a retread of a retread of a PM is doing things that people didn't vote for and that people hate, and that polls show people Do Not Support, what do we say? That they have a majority so no election?

    A spring 2023 election once the ship has been stabilised is still likely. Especially as the Tory MPs will endlessly attack whoever wins.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !


    Correction: ... replace with a useless pathological liar PM
    Correction: replace with a useless drunken lazy incompetent pathological liar and criminal as PM.
    Lloyd-George? He’d be great but I thought he was dead.
    That's the very first time I've ever heard it suggested Lloyd George was a drunk.

    Or indeed, that he was incompetent.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,542

    MikeL said:

    If Sunak wins the indicative vote he will win unless it is incedibly close.

    But the members are degenerate giffers. They don't want him. And before HY posts another poll, I am talking about real world.

    Easy to say "yeah OK Sunak" a few days ago in Theory. But in practice...?
    43% voted for him last time. I think they would be the more internet savvy members too.

    He could well win a members vote.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    If the results are 250 Rishi, 101 Johnson, then members will go with Rishi.

    But if it’s something like 200 Rishi 151 Johnson, they will go with Johnson.

    Beg to differ. Members will go with Mr J either way.
    That's why Johnson would pull out imo.

    He cannot hope to lead the PCP through the coming economic turmoil if he doesn't have the support of at least a majority of them.
    Hmm, iswn't that a mere detail? But you might be right.
    Presumably in the (unlikely) event Boris became PM, Hunt would resign immediately.

    That wouldn't really soothe the markets.
    That would be quite petulant from Hunt and negate any goodwill he gained by steadying the ship after Kwarteng.
    What is petulant about refusing to work for a known liar?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,033
    nico679 said:

    algarkirk said:

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.



    "There will be an indicative vote of MPs once there are two candidates.

    The first ballot of MPs will then be held between 1530 and 1730 on Monday 24. If there are three candidates, the candidate with the fewest number of votes will be eliminated. The result will be announced at 1800hrs. If a second vote is needed (indicative), this will be held between 1830 and 2030 on Monday 24. The result will be announced at 2100."


    From the CCHQ statement. Fascinating - and designed to maximally push for no members vote.

    But knowing recent form the indicative vote will go 310-40 and the members will vote the other way by 50.1-49.9%
    It’s still a bit confusing. It says indicative vote of needed . Who decides if it’s needed ?
    If there's more than one candidate left :smile:
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    Early evening all :)

    As it's a quiet day in British politics, time to look at the latest polling from Denmark where polling day is just 12 days away.

    Three very interesting surveys starting with Kantar Gallup for the Berlingske Tidende (one of the main serious papers in Denmark):

    Centre-Left Bloc: (Social Democrats, Radikale Venstre, Socialist People's Party and Red/Green List): 48%
    Centre-Right Bloc: (Venstre, Conservatives, Liberal Alliance, Denmark Democrats, New Right, Danish People's Party) 41.7%

    Moderates: 7.3%

    Yougov:

    Centre-Left Bloc: 48.2%
    Centre-Right Bloc: 41.6%

    Moderates: 7.9%

    Voxmeter:

    Centre-Left Bloc: 46.8%
    Centre-Right Bloc: 39.4%

    Moderates: 9.2%

    In essence, the Social Democrats are polling above the last election and are closing on 30%. The centre-right bloc vote is fragmented with the Denmark Democrats between 6 and 8.5%. Yougov has Venstre down at 10.6% but at 14.5% with other pollsters.

    The Moderates are advancing and are polling an average 8% and Lars Lokke Rasmussen may yet lead his party above both the Denmark Democrats and the Conservatives.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    eek said:

    nico679 said:

    algarkirk said:

    MikeL said:

    Has this been posted yet?

    Brady said: MPs WILL VOTE ON THE FINAL 2 - so the members will know who the MPs prefer.

    That is surely key.



    "There will be an indicative vote of MPs once there are two candidates.

    The first ballot of MPs will then be held between 1530 and 1730 on Monday 24. If there are three candidates, the candidate with the fewest number of votes will be eliminated. The result will be announced at 1800hrs. If a second vote is needed (indicative), this will be held between 1830 and 2030 on Monday 24. The result will be announced at 2100."


    From the CCHQ statement. Fascinating - and designed to maximally push for no members vote.

    But knowing recent form the indicative vote will go 310-40 and the members will vote the other way by 50.1-49.9%
    It’s still a bit confusing. It says indicative vote of needed . Who decides if it’s needed ?
    It's needed if there are still two candidates left.

    Candidate 2 may back out.
    Were 3 candidates get 100 nominations if the one that comes second pulled out the one that came 3rd goes to the members as the other choice
    If candidate 2 pulls out before the MPs vote, I assume the MP indicative vote would be between 1 and 3, then on to the member vote if neither of those two pull out.

    If candidate 2 pulls out after the MPs vote, no need for a members vote - candidate 1 wins.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,453
    To spice things up, Conservative MPs who voted for Truss in the first two or three rounds of the last contest should be barred from voting this time. Their judgement is obviously highly flawed... ;)
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Roger said:

    The media are trying to boost Johnson. It might be the best route to a General Election.

    There are many Conservatives who would sooner an election than having him back.

    Much as I would love it, I cannot see any route whatever to an early GE.

    It doesn't matter which pollster you take, just key in the numbers to Election Calculus and you will see why the Tories cannot allow it under any circumstances.
    The route to an immediate GE has closed, but early is still open.

    Whomever becomes PM will have no mandate and a mountain of cuts to implement. They will not be popular and will not be seen as legitimate.

    We are a representative democracy. When a retread of a retread of a PM is doing things that people didn't vote for and that people hate, and that polls show people Do Not Support, what do we say? That they have a majority so no election?

    A spring 2023 election once the ship has been stabilised is still likely. Especially as the Tory MPs will endlessly attack whoever wins.
    WHOEVER

    Bin the relative bit, and what are you saying about this person? S/he becomes PM. He = who, him=whom.

    Whereas whomever the tories elect as PM...
  • IanB2 said:

    What happened to Finland btw?

    (The rumour not the country - calm down!)

    More guff from Leon.. "she'll surprise on the upside"..damus, I fear
    Think that you (and not just you) may be misinterpreting that quote?

    Could be Leon was referring to something OTHER than governmental/political performance?
  • novanova Posts: 690

    To spice things up, Conservative MPs who voted for Truss in the first two or three rounds of the last contest should be barred from voting this time. Their judgement is obviously highly flawed... ;)

    Amongst members that voted for Truss, Boris is miles ahead. Go figure.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    From a Labour point of view. I don't think we really care whether it's Sunak, Mordaunt or Johnson - much of a muchness, even though they're all quite different characters. Each of the three have strengths and weaknesses, and all are beatable. If you could be so good as to go for Braverman or JRM, though, I'd be even more confident.

    No, Al.

    You must apply the Richie Benaud test to this. Ask yourself what the opposing Captain would most like you to do, and do the opposite.

    Starmer would least like Sunak and/or Mordaunt. Boris would bring a broad grin to his face.

    The others are too ridiculous to contemplate.
    Don't agree. Boris would win back many of the white male w/c. Mordaunt is highly risky and could backfire badly. Sunak I'm less sure about.

    Anyway, Richie Benaud, as a leg spinner, says - bowl them a googly! JRM.
    Mordaunt is OK if she is a Vote Penny, get Hunt ticket. Otherwise not. Sunak is a boring technocrat which is OK in the circs. Loses me a ton but went to an OK school.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,605
    Daily Mail leading with the return of Boris. It’s happening.
  • To spice things up, Conservative MPs who voted for Truss in the first two or three rounds of the last contest should be barred from voting this time. Their judgement is obviously highly flawed... ;)

    And what punishment do you propose for the Members who voted for her?

    We have a set of stocks in Winchcombe High Street.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712
  • I don't think the indicative vote on the last two is going to make much difference in practice, given the nomination threshold. If they've got that far, each candidate must have at least 100+ backers, and either it will already be obvious that one of them is miles ahead, or more likely they'll both end up with a respectable chunk of the final indicative MP vote. It's only if there are three candidates each with around a third of the vote in the final elimination, and if the supporters of the eliminated candidate overwhelmingly transfer one way, that there would be a big steer from the indicative vote. That combination strikes me as fairly unlikely.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836

    IanB2 said:

    One thing we can guarantee - the return of the clown would ensure this story runs and runs, and isn't going to put a lid on anything!

    Which story?
    All of them! And more.
  • Anyone know who @Tissue_Price will support?

    He needs new trousers after soiling himself supporting La Truss.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Roger said:

    The media are trying to boost Johnson. It might be the best route to a General Election.

    There are many Conservatives who would sooner an election than having him back.

    Much as I would love it, I cannot see any route whatever to an early GE.

    It doesn't matter which pollster you take, just key in the numbers to Election Calculus and you will see why the Tories cannot allow it under any circumstances.
    The route to an immediate GE has closed, but early is still open.

    Whomever becomes PM will have no mandate and a mountain of cuts to implement. They will not be popular and will not be seen as legitimate.

    We are a representative democracy. When a retread of a retread of a PM is doing things that people didn't vote for and that people hate, and that polls show people Do Not Support, what do we say? That they have a majority so no election?

    A spring 2023 election once the ship has been stabilised is still likely. Especially as the Tory MPs will endlessly attack whoever wins.
    WHOEVER

    Bin the relative bit, and what are you saying about this person? S/he becomes PM. He = who, him=whom.

    Whereas whomever the tories elect as PM...
    Learn to talk proper like what I do
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a useless pathological liar !

    You missed out a word, CIFY
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288

    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712

    How? They gave up their nuclear weapons. In exchange, of course, for a guarantee of territorial integrity from (checks notes) Russia...
  • stodge said:

    Early evening all :)

    As it's a quiet day in British politics, time to look at the latest polling from Denmark where polling day is just 12 days away.

    Three very interesting surveys starting with Kantar Gallup for the Berlingske Tidende (one of the main serious papers in Denmark):

    Centre-Left Bloc: (Social Democrats, Radikale Venstre, Socialist People's Party and Red/Green List): 48%
    Centre-Right Bloc: (Venstre, Conservatives, Liberal Alliance, Denmark Democrats, New Right, Danish People's Party) 41.7%

    Moderates: 7.3%

    Yougov:

    Centre-Left Bloc: 48.2%
    Centre-Right Bloc: 41.6%

    Moderates: 7.9%

    Voxmeter:

    Centre-Left Bloc: 46.8%
    Centre-Right Bloc: 39.4%

    Moderates: 9.2%

    In essence, the Social Democrats are polling above the last election and are closing on 30%. The centre-right bloc vote is fragmented with the Denmark Democrats between 6 and 8.5%. Yougov has Venstre down at 10.6% but at 14.5% with other pollsters.

    The Moderates are advancing and are polling an average 8% and Lars Lokke Rasmussen may yet lead his party above both the Denmark Democrats and the Conservatives.

    Thanks Stodge.

    For those of us not entirely up to speed with Danish Politics can you just point out which of these Parties is proposing unfunded tax cuts for the rich?
  • What happens if no candidates reach the 100 nominations......that would be the most fitting result.....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    In the interests of parliamentary governance, the rules of all the main parties should limit the leadership electorate to MPs when the party is in power.

    In the interests of getting my vote again they should limit it thus all the time.
    Tbf, if a party's members elect a leader while they are in opposition then at least the electorate get a chance to reject said leader (and party). Compare and contrast J Corbyn and L Truss.
    Labour in theory could elect a Corbyn in power too. Once candidates are nominated by Labour MPs then Labour members, registered supporters and affiliated supporters get the final say. Labour MPs don't even get to pick the last 2.

    If the idea is the membership only chooses the leader in opposition and MPs alone choose the leader in power it needs to apply to both parties.

    In 2007 John McDonnell in theory could have become PM. He wanted to stand and it was only Brownites bullying Labour MPs not to nominate him and crown their man that stopped that
    Totally agree. That's why I was explicitly said: the rules of all the main parties should limit the leadership electorate to MPs when the party is in power.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    I'm sure we've all put the Redfield & Wilton numbers through Baxter and had a good giggle at the outcome.

    Step forward John Hayes, leader of the Conservative MP and a very busy man as the only Tory MP.

    Survation is slightly less dramatic - 29 Conservative MPs on the new boundaries with the Labour majority slashed to just 404 but apply the Redfield & Wilton tactical voting bias and the Conservatives drop to just 9 as Labour scrape home with an overall majority of 446 (compared to 1931 they're only just in).

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Foxy said:

    MikeL said:

    If Sunak wins the indicative vote he will win unless it is incedibly close.

    But the members are degenerate giffers. They don't want him. And before HY posts another poll, I am talking about real world.

    Easy to say "yeah OK Sunak" a few days ago in Theory. But in practice...?
    43% voted for him last time. I think they would be the more internet savvy members too.

    He could well win a members vote.
    Against Boris? Not a chance.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,605

    What happens if no candidates reach the 100 nominations......that would be the most fitting result.....

    Truss stays until they go again.
  • Anyone know who @Tissue_Price will support?

    He needs new trousers after soiling himself supporting La Truss.
    Will definitely not be Boris.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Oh I just realized I asked a really daft question re the indicative vote .

    Thanks for the replies and I need to go and take my meds now !
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !


    Correction: ... replace with a useless pathological liar PM
    Correction: replace with a useless drunken lazy incompetent pathological liar and criminal as PM.
    Lloyd-George? He’d be great but I thought he was dead.
    That's the very first time I've ever heard it suggested Lloyd George was a drunk.

    Or indeed, that he was incompetent.
    To be fair, he was teetotal, which is even worse!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Boris now has 31 backers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    Maybe the MPs will have a final vote on the top two, before they go to members? That would make sense of Brady’s comments earlier, and would allow the MPs to send a clear steer to members
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Boris now has 31 backers.

    Fresh out the blocks to try and force a narrative. Sunak/Mordaunt need to announce alliance soon.
  • Jonathan said:

    Daily Mail leading with the return of Boris. It’s happening.

    Lol! Well they've got to say something to distract their readers from noticing their disastrous support for the disastrous Truss.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933

    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712

    Oh balls. At some point you almost want to just send for Cameron, or Blair.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    IanB2 said:

    Maybe the MPs will have a final vote on the top two, before they go to members? That would make sense of Brady’s comments earlier, and would allow the MPs to send a clear steer to members

    That is indeed the idea.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    Wallace has come right in to 14.5 in last 5 mins.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    What happens if no candidates reach the 100 nominations......that would be the most fitting result.....

    Surely that means you become Tory leader?
  • PJHPJH Posts: 639
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !


    Correction: ... replace with a useless pathological liar PM
    Correction: replace with a useless drunken lazy incompetent pathological liar and criminal as PM.
    Lloyd-George? He’d be great but I thought he was dead.
    That's the very first time I've ever heard it suggested Lloyd George was a drunk.

    Or indeed, that he was incompetent.
    To be fair, he was teetotal, which is even worse!
    Nor was he lazy. You can make a case for the other two though.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    IanB2 said:

    Maybe the MPs will have a final vote on the top two, before they go to members? That would make sense of Brady’s comments earlier, and would allow the MPs to send a clear steer to members

    Yes if there’s 3 going forward then that’s what happens . I got there eventually ! Lol
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    biggles said:

    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712

    Oh balls. At some point you almost want to just send for Cameron, or Blair.
    You would really need to be as fuckwitted as a Tory party member to believe any nuclear explosion in Mykolayiv was undertaken by the Ukrainians.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288
    edited October 2022
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !


    Correction: ... replace with a useless pathological liar PM
    Correction: replace with a useless drunken lazy incompetent pathological liar and criminal as PM.
    Lloyd-George? He’d be great but I thought he was dead.
    That's the very first time I've ever heard it suggested Lloyd George was a drunk.

    Or indeed, that he was incompetent.
    To be fair, he was teetotal, which is even worse!
    There is a wonderfully withering passage in Blake's book on the Conservatives where he talks about Labour under Attlee as 'joyless puritans;'

    'This was epitomised by Sir Stafford Cripps, who was not a vegetarian and a teetotaller but looked like one too.'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288

    biggles said:

    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712

    Oh balls. At some point you almost want to just send for Cameron, or Blair.
    You would really need to be as fuckwitted as a Tory party member to believe any nuclear explosion in Mykolayiv was undertaken by the Ukrainians.
    We're talking about Putin. Your point is?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933

    From a Labour point of view. I don't think we really care whether it's Sunak, Mordaunt or Johnson - much of a muchness, even though they're all quite different characters. Each of the three have strengths and weaknesses, and all are beatable. If you could be so good as to go for Braverman or JRM, though, I'd be even more confident.

    No, Al.

    You must apply the Richie Benaud test to this. Ask yourself what the opposing Captain would most like you to do, and do the opposite.

    Starmer would least like Sunak and/or Mordaunt. Boris would bring a broad grin to his face.

    The others are too ridiculous to contemplate.
    Don't agree. Boris would win back many of the white male w/c. Mordaunt is highly risky and could backfire badly. Sunak I'm less sure about.

    Anyway, Richie Benaud, as a leg spinner, says - bowl them a googly! JRM.
    Lord Gower.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Today I learned there are two “Shaun Baileys” in the Conservative Party.

    (And 27 Grant Shappses).
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933

    biggles said:

    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712

    Oh balls. At some point you almost want to just send for Cameron, or Blair.
    You would really need to be as fuckwitted as a Tory party member to believe any nuclear explosion in Mykolayiv was undertaken by the Ukrainians.
    Well, obviously, but my point was around what came next. And Russia pushing such a false narrative is not completely insane given the Syria precedent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    The BBC seems to be desperate to big up Johnson’s return.

    So we lose a useless PM to replace that with a pathological liar !


    Correction: ... replace with a useless pathological liar PM
    Correction: replace with a useless drunken lazy incompetent pathological liar and criminal as PM.
    Lloyd-George? He’d be great but I thought he was dead.
    That's the very first time I've ever heard it suggested Lloyd George was a drunk.

    Or indeed, that he was incompetent.
    To be fair, he was teetotal, which is even worse!
    Hey now, nothing wrong with teetotallers! There's me, Gandhi, Trump...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,903
    nico679 said:

    Oh I just realized I asked a really daft question re the indicative vote .

    Thanks for the replies and I need to go and take my meds now !

    Don't worry, I do the same all the time.
  • kle4 said:

    Boris now has 31 backers.

    Fresh out the blocks to try and force a narrative. Sunak/Mordaunt need to announce alliance soon.
    1. Sunak / Mordaunt announce an alliance
    2. Its Boris vs Sunak Mordaunt in the final 2. Sunak wins comfortably
    3. Members overwhelmingly back Boris
    4. A run on popcorn.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952

    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712

    Yes. That could be kicking off quite soon

    This website seems mad but it is worth reading on Russian nukes

    https://www.the-paladins.com/post/russia-s-anticipated-use-of-neutron-bombs-in-ukraine

    TLDR: tactical/neutron bomb over Black Sea
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    MikeL said:

    Wallace has come right in to 14.5 in last 5 mins.

    “I didn’t want to be PM for myself, and indeed didn’t even stand last time. However, my friends and colleagues have forced me to reluctantly agree to stand”.

    “Do you not think the others are up to it”

    “You may think that….”
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,051
    Jonathan said:

    Daily Mail leading with the return of Boris. It’s happening.

    The hype is happening, yes. But the event isn't.
  • nova said:

    To spice things up, Conservative MPs who voted for Truss in the first two or three rounds of the last contest should be barred from voting this time. Their judgement is obviously highly flawed... ;)

    Amongst members that voted for Truss, Boris is miles ahead. Go figure.
    To paraphrase & alter the old Planter's Peanuts slogan:

    Sometimes you feel like a nut - and sometimes you ARE a nut!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    There as we all know 357 Tory MPs.

    You’d have to have balls of steel to be confident that Boris can’t get 100 of those.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    biggles said:

    MikeL said:

    Wallace has come right in to 14.5 in last 5 mins.

    “I didn’t want to be PM for myself, and indeed didn’t even stand last time. However, my friends and colleagues have forced me to reluctantly agree to stand”.

    “Do you not think the others are up to it”

    “You may think that….”
    Thought he'd ruled himself out already.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    We don’t have an “economic crisis” as Sky News keep telling us. We have an acute political crisis. And we are essentially at war. War time leader needed. Why isn’t Wallace running?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    MikeL said:

    Wallace has come right in to 14.5 in last 5 mins.

    “I didn’t want to be PM for myself, and indeed didn’t even stand last time. However, my friends and colleagues have forced me to reluctantly agree to stand”.

    “Do you not think the others are up to it”

    “You may think that….”
    Thought he'd ruled himself out already.
    Well he would do, wouldn’t he?
  • PJHPJH Posts: 639
    edited October 2022

    From a Labour point of view. I don't think we really care whether it's Sunak, Mordaunt or Johnson - much of a muchness, even though they're all quite different characters. Each of the three have strengths and weaknesses, and all are beatable. If you could be so good as to go for Braverman or JRM, though, I'd be even more confident.

    No, Al.

    You must apply the Richie Benaud test to this. Ask yourself what the opposing Captain would most like you to do, and do the opposite.

    Starmer would least like Sunak and/or Mordaunt. Boris would bring a broad grin to his face.

    The others are too ridiculous to contemplate.
    Don't agree. Boris would win back many of the white male w/c. Mordaunt is highly risky and could backfire badly. Sunak I'm less sure about.

    Anyway, Richie Benaud, as a leg spinner, says - bowl them a googly! JRM.
    If I was Starmer I would be laughing all the way to the election if Johnson was re-instated. The Tories would be a laughing stock - forcing one unsuitable PM out, only to replace him with someone incompetent, then immediately change their minds again? Hahaha! And a large chunk of MPs won't support him.

    Mordaunt is untested. I'd like to see her run a big department for more than a few months. On the evidence of the first leadership election I don't think she cuts it. Big risk. I don't think I'd worry.

    Sunak has shown he has the capability, but again he hasn't been tested in a big spending department. And a (different) large chunk of the party won't support him and will make life difficult for him. Probably the one Starmer would prefer not to have given the choice but even then I don't think he'll lose any sleep.

    (Edited - corrected accidentally deleted words on Mordaunt)
  • There as we all know 357 Tory MPs.

    You’d have to have balls of steel to be confident that Boris can’t get 100 of those.

    How many could he put on the paywall if he did get it? About the same number surely?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,033

    Russian media is pushing the conspiracy that Ukraine is launching a nuclear false flag explosion in Mykolaiv

    https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1583119636903923712

    It's a well known strategy - when you're successfully beating off an invader - to detonate a nuclear weapon on your own territory.

    Everyone knows this.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Hollobone makes it 32.

    It’s a veritable Who’s Poo of the parliamentary party.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Are the Bozo backers just ignoring the fact he’s still under investigation.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    Imagine if the Final is Boris v Sunak and Sunak does win with the members.

    Just think how strong a position that would put him in - and how much it would instantly improve the reputation of the Conservative Party with the wider public.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,288
    nico679 said:

    Are the Bozo backers just ignoring the fact he’s still under investigation. thick as mince.

    FTFY.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    The plan clearly is to get Boris Johnson "momentum" (not in the Labour sense) before either Sunak or Mordaunt formally declare.

    Reports Johnson is closing on half the number of nominations required may suggest he has the early momentum but the journey from 40 to 100 may not be straightforward.

    Could we have three runners - Sunak, Mordaunt and Johnson? Maybe but there will be huge pressure on those who finish second and third next Monday to drop out voluntarily so the victor can go to the King on Monday evening or Tuesday morning.

    The other thought - Wilson was Prime Minister twice as were Baldwin and MacDonald. Gladstone was Prime Minister four times but I presume in all the above examples they were removed by a General Election and re-elected following another election. Johnson would be the first to be removed by his own party and re-elected by his own party all within the one parliament.
This discussion has been closed.