If Truss clings on until after Hunt delivers his list of eye wateringly difficult decisions, there will be a push for another boosterish anti austerity candidate who promises to undo his spending cuts and tax hikes, and we're back to square one.
I wonder how the 1922 committee intend to stop her from running for the leadership...
She could get there if it somehow goes to the membership. 28 is a good price. Then she would find herself in an infinitely worse position than Truss as PM. The key problem is that - after getting Brexit done - the tories don't have a clear idea what they are in power to do. Is it to provide strong and stable leadership? Or to destroy the woke?
Braverman's ambition and self-belief is W-A-Y more unwarranted than even that of Liz Truss.
The Tories have no-one who can take her to one side and say "Suella...no. Just...no! Look at Liz Truss - and learn." The lack of respected grandees who are listened to is a major (pun intended) problem for management of the party.
The trouble is, Westminster is full of people (within one's own faction, of course) who'll blow smoke up your own arsehole.
You learn to ignore the rest.
YouGov’s survey of members showed practically zero support for Suella, and that’s among the criminally insane, ie her natural constituency.
One fears that Suella’s ring piece is smoke-damaged beyond repair.
Braverman has no chance of being PM, she has a chance of being Leader of the Opposition to a Starmer government
Given the mistakes she's made recently (email, the spat with India, and generally idiotic posturing) and the childish tone of her departure letter I think she's not far off the worst possible choice.
Since at least 2016 the worst option has always prevailed in British politics.
In which case, Mark Francois should be curious to see why his turn to be PM has not (yet?) arrived.
The sad reality is that Mark Francois is actually far from the worst option on the table.
Who are your top (or bottom) three?
Good question. Hard to pick from such a rogues gallery but I'd probably go for Suella Braverman, Owen Patterson and Jacob Rees Mogg as the absolute worst Tory MPs.
I won't have Sir Christorher Chope left out. The guy is ga-ga.
And Owen Paterson isn't an MP.
I forgot he'd actually resigned as an MP. Doh! Substitute in Chope then. Or maybe Redwood. We really are spoiled for choice.
Which part of the UK has the strongest support for the Conservative Party?
Well, according to Deltapoll, the surprising answer is… wait for it… Wales!
Con VI:
Wales 32% Rest of South 27% North 24% London 19% Midlands 17% Scotland 9%
(Deltapoll, 13-17 October)
Midlands 17%
Just absorb that.
Midlands 17%
Of sweet lord.
This is where it would be particularly helpful to look at a few different polls in aggregate, because random variation in the subsamples will be large, and Wales is by far the lowest population area, so the size of the subsample will be smallest, and so the margin of error on that subsample will be largest - therefore, even if Tory support was even across the different regions, you would expect to see the highest score for the Tories in Wales if you looked at the scores across a few polls and picked the highest.
So you'd really want to check that this pattern was consistent across several polls.
You are of course completely correct.
But please don’t deny a weary old SNP activist his small pleasures in life. I’m in Schadenfreude heaven.
Midlands 17%
Just absorb that.
Midlands 17%
Of sweet lord.
Previously the last redoubt of pro Johnson, pro Brexit yamyammery.
The English Midlands are the key to governance in that country. If the Tories really are in the teens in that region then they are truly fucked. This is looking less and less like a Canada scenario and more like the demise of the once mighty Liberal Party. Yes, liberals still exist in English politics, but the movement is a pale shadow of its peak in the 19th and early 20th centuries. It is entirely possible that the Tories are heading for Lib Dem status: also-rans.
Taxi!
PB’s resident expert on all things English jets in from Sweden to opine.
If I held the opposite opinion, would my location undermine that opinion?
Well, that’s the view taken by Scottish posters on here when posters in England express any form of opinion on their country.
I believe Stuart has been seriously involved in Scottish politics from an early age, to the point of standing at one point if I'm not mistaken? I'll be happy to take seriously any 'posters in England' operating from a similar knowledge base on matters Scotch.
In fairness to the Chief Whip trying to whip the current Conservative party must make herding cats look like a walk in the park. So many factions, so little in common, so many loud mouth opinionated twats who want the world to know what they think and utter incompetence in the form of direction from the centre with no core beliefs or principles to guide anyone.
The Conservatives will undoubtedly benefit from a period in opposition to rediscover what they are actually for. The risk is that no one will actually care anymore.
‘In fairness to the Chief Whip trying to whip the current Conservative party must make herding cats look like a walk in the park. So many factions, so little in common, so many loud mouth opinionated twats who want the world to know what they think and utter incompetence in the form of direction from the centre with no core beliefs or principles to guide anyone.’
Akin to the role of PB moderator?
It worse than that. They can have whatever opinion they like of Radiohead.
Without reading the paywalled article the quote seems reasonable.
What's the thrust of the article - 'rampant wokism brainwashing our kids'?
Roughly yes.
He does have a point that much history as taught in schools is almost laughably bad, but there are two issues with this working group: (1) the real issue is the appalling mess that is the exam system, which is outside their remit. Unless that is reformed to something vaguely sane, any changes to the content are wasted effort and (2) as academies are free to set their own curriculum and the government's stated aim is to convert all schools to academies, there's very little point to a 'model curriculum' anyway.
I would add that in any case there's very little merit to curriculae imposed from the top, because it's not likely to be responsive to local needs. For example, round here you want to go big on Saxons and the Industrial Revolution because those are the key things that shaped the local area. In Gloucestershire I would want to teach about Romans, the Civil War and the slave trade for much the same reason.
Hmmm... Ok I am going to comment on something I know nothing about (as usual).
Two subjects there, surely? History and local history. Both have a place but imho everyone in this country should study all four of those topics you list to a reasonable level, under the History subject.
Local history study should be available for those with a particular interest.
What would it serve me to know everything about the Norman conquest and the Cinque Ports (I grew up in Hastings) but not much about the Industrial Revolution, once I left home and moved around the country/world?
One thing that is scandalously badly taught in England is 17th century history. Without understanding the results of the Civil War, Interregnum, “Glorious Revolution” and (stretching slightly over into the 18th) the Acts of Union you can’t understand the current constitution.
Speaking for myself I've always found that period rather boring.
(Btw, you can get round your issue with the 17C and Acts of Union by just calling it 'the Stuart era.')
But it is the absolute key to all the stuff we talk about all day - proroguing and dissolving parliament and stuff. Difficult to remember whether Chas or Olly binned more Long, Short, Rump etc parliaments.
This is how the Tories prevent total meltdown at the next election:
1) Appoint Mordaunt as titular leader 2) Hunt as Chancellor calling most of the shots 3) Sunak as FS or HS but part of the main decision-making triumvirate 4) Appoint Steve Baker as business sec to have one of the few intelligent Brexiteers on side 5)sack all the clowns such as JRM 6) Copy every good policy Labour suggests: windfall taxes etc. etc. 6a) Offer Labour an opportunity to work with Government to find centre ground policies in national interest 7)offer a serious path to a genuine once in a lifetime referendum on Scottish indy, but including devomax 8)Hope for some luck
If Jizzy Lizzy doesn't title her biography, "Close to Properly Crackers" she's really fucking up.
That might be a publisher issue of course. They often have very stupid ideas on what makes a good title, as JK Rowling and Nevil Shute both found out.
Worst missed opportunity though was the history of a certain bank, which is called 'Messrs C Hoare and Co.' When it could so easily have been 'Banking with Real Hoares.'
I’ve made a few posts on here, in recent years, about the epidemic of cyber fraud and online scamming - and the utter unwillingness of the government to do its job protecting the people from it. Going after the people who do this shite.
We have scammers actively impersonating the police, HMRC and other government agencies and no meaningful attempt is made to stop it and go after the scum.
Appointing Michael Green to home sec is a special level of cynical.
The Tories really, really, really don’t care about Little People.
As opposed to the SNP who really do believe in the fairies at the end of the garden
This is how the Tories prevent total meltdown at the next election:
1) Appoint Mordaunt as titular leader 2) Hunt as Chancellor calling most of the shots 3) Sunak as FS or HS but part of the main decision-making triumvirate 4) Appoint Steve Baker as business sec to have one of the few intelligent Brexiteers on side 5)sack all the clowns such as JRM 6) Copy every good policy Labour suggests: windfall taxes etc. etc. 6a) Offer Labour an opportunity to work with Government to find centre ground policies in national interest 7)offer a serious path to a genuine once in a lifetime referendum on Scottish indy, but including devomax 8)Hope for some luck
6 is a problem, since Labour refuse to announce policies.
7 is a problem, because the SNP will never accept defeat in a referendum.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Which part of the UK has the strongest support for the Conservative Party?
Well, according to Deltapoll, the surprising answer is… wait for it… Wales!
Con VI:
Wales 32% Rest of South 27% North 24% London 19% Midlands 17% Scotland 9%
(Deltapoll, 13-17 October)
Midlands 17%
Just absorb that.
Midlands 17%
Of sweet lord.
This is where it would be particularly helpful to look at a few different polls in aggregate, because random variation in the subsamples will be large, and Wales is by far the lowest population area, so the size of the subsample will be smallest, and so the margin of error on that subsample will be largest - therefore, even if Tory support was even across the different regions, you would expect to see the highest score for the Tories in Wales if you looked at the scores across a few polls and picked the highest.
So you'd really want to check that this pattern was consistent across several polls.
You are of course completely correct.
But please don’t deny a weary old SNP activist his small pleasures in life. I’m in Schadenfreude heaven.
Midlands 17%
Just absorb that.
Midlands 17%
Of sweet lord.
Previously the last redoubt of pro Johnson, pro Brexit yamyammery.
The English Midlands are the key to governance in that country. If the Tories really are in the teens in that region then they are truly fucked. This is looking less and less like a Canada scenario and more like the demise of the once mighty Liberal Party. Yes, liberals still exist in English politics, but the movement is a pale shadow of its peak in the 19th and early 20th centuries. It is entirely possible that the Tories are heading for Lib Dem status: also-rans.
Taxi!
PB’s resident expert on all things English jets in from Sweden to opine.
If I held the opposite opinion, would my location undermine that opinion?
Well, that’s the view taken by Scottish posters on here when posters in England express any form of opinion on their country.
I believe Stuart has been seriously involved in Scottish politics from an early age, to the point of standing at one point if I'm not mistaken? I'll be happy to take seriously any 'posters in England' operating from a similar knowledge base on matters Scotch.
Form a queue here lads.
I think you misread the thread. I was critiquing his expressed expertise in English politics in the same way that Scots posters get incredibly wound up if someone from England (spit on the name) has the temerity, the gall, to express a view on even the weather north of the border. Despite your continued insistence that I’m some sort of drooling idiot, clearly I live in your head rent free, I am at least aware of the difference between England and Scotland.
I’ve made a few posts on here, in recent years, about the epidemic of cyber fraud and online scamming - and the utter unwillingness of the government to do its job protecting the people from it. Going after the people who do this shite.
We have scammers actively impersonating the police, HMRC and other government agencies and no meaningful attempt is made to stop it and go after the scum.
Appointing Michael Green to home sec is a special level of cynical.
The Tories really, really, really don’t care about Little People.
As opposed to the SNP who really do believe in the fairies at the end of the garden
As long as they identify by their preferred not their cis gender.
If Jizzy Lizzy doesn't title her biography, "Close to Properly Crackers" she's really fucking up.
Will Mrs Truss be sane in twelve months time? I sincerely hope so. But if her mental health is robust enough to withstand this onslaught then she is a stronger person than most of the shitebags posting on this obscure blog.
@Peston Talking to member of the cabinet last night, it’s clear there is a collective will among ministers to try to keep Liz Truss in office till 31 October, so that the chancellor can determine which further taxes need to rise and what spending should be cut in that de facto budget, the medium term fiscal plan, without the instability of not knowing who will be next PM.
I’ve made a few posts on here, in recent years, about the epidemic of cyber fraud and online scamming - and the utter unwillingness of the government to do its job protecting the people from it. Going after the people who do this shite.
We have scammers actively impersonating the police, HMRC and other government agencies and no meaningful attempt is made to stop it and go after the scum.
Appointing Michael Green to home sec is a special level of cynical.
The Tories really, really, really don’t care about Little People.
As opposed to the SNP who really do believe in the fairies at the end of the garden
The fairies of Scottish independence look a lot more attractive than the trolls of British Nationalism.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Rats leaving the ship..
You were her number one fan, alongside the LuckyMan.
I wonder how the 1922 committee intend to stop her from running for the leadership...
She could get there if it somehow goes to the membership. 28 is a good price. Then she would find herself in an infinitely worse position than Truss as PM. The key problem is that - after getting Brexit done - the tories don't have a clear idea what they are in power to do. Is it to provide strong and stable leadership? Or to destroy the woke?
Braverman's ambition and self-belief is W-A-Y more unwarranted than even that of Liz Truss.
The Tories have no-one who can take her to one side and say "Suella...no. Just...no! Look at Liz Truss - and learn." The lack of respected grandees who are listened to is a major (pun intended) problem for management of the party.
The trouble is, Westminster is full of people (within one's own faction, of course) who'll blow smoke up your own arsehole.
You learn to ignore the rest.
YouGov’s survey of members showed practically zero support for Suella, and that’s among the criminally insane, ie her natural constituency.
One fears that Suella’s ring piece is smoke-damaged beyond repair.
Braverman has no chance of being PM, she has a chance of being Leader of the Opposition to a Starmer government
Given the mistakes she's made recently (email, the spat with India, and generally idiotic posturing) and the childish tone of her departure letter I think she's not far off the worst possible choice.
Since at least 2016 the worst option has always prevailed in British politics.
In which case, Mark Francois should be curious to see why his turn to be PM has not (yet?) arrived.
The sad reality is that Mark Francois is actually far from the worst option on the table.
Who are your top (or bottom) three?
Good question. Hard to pick from such a rogues gallery but I'd probably go for Suella Braverman, Owen Patterson and Jacob Rees Mogg as the absolute worst Tory MPs.
I won't have Sir Christorher Chope left out. The guy is ga-ga.
And Owen Paterson isn't an MP.
I forgot he'd actually resigned as an MP. Doh! Substitute in Chope then. Or maybe Redwood. We really are spoiled for choice.
It might not be the worst thing in the world for a Canada 1993 style wipeout of the Tories. Clear out the has-beens and never-were like Redwood and Chope etc and start again.
Worth noting the gap between the Tories in Canada getting reduced down to literally just 2 seats and when they regained the PM at another election was no worse than it was for the Tories in England following 1997.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Hey, the cock just crowed. Don't deny it. You were a fan. Just as you were of Johnson. Well done. You have backed the two worst and most damaging PMs in the history of this country. They have both probably ensured that we are stuck with Labour for the next 20 years and it is thanks to political illiterates such as you.
WASHINGTON — Federal Reserve researchers and officials quizzed experts from Wall Street and around the world last week about a pressing question: Could a market meltdown like the one that happened in Britain late last month occur here?
The answer they got back, according to four people at separate institutions who were in such conversations and who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private meetings, was that it probably could — though a crash does not appear to be imminent.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Anyway, naming and shaming like that is wrong and discourages the free interplay of ideas and principles.
I thought Gordon Brown would be a good PM, ffs. I'm not going to stand in a corner because of it.
She was eventually recorded as a No - some hours after the voting was reported. I suspect the numbers spoken in Parliament no longer correspond with the reported figures.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Hey, the cock just crowed. Don't deny it. You were a fan. Just as you were of Johnson. Well done. You have backed the two worst and most damaging PMs in the history of this country. They have both probably ensured that we are stuck with Labour for the next 20 years and it is thanks to political illiterates such as you.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Hey, the cock just crowed. Don't deny it. You were a fan. Just as you were of Johnson. Well done. You have backed the two worst and most damaging PMs in the history of this country. They have both probably ensured that we are stuck with Labour for the next 20 years and it is thanks to political illiterates such as you.
I still am. No regrets. The Health and Social Care Levy is axed, mission accomplished.
Bring on Labour, I don't care. I'm not a partisan shill. If the Tories are just going to be increasing National Insurance then I might as well vote Labour anyway - at least Labour are more liberal on social issues and don't have authoritarians wanting to restrict civil liberties or immigration.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Anyway, naming and shaming like that is wrong and discourages the free interplay of ideas and principles.
I thought Gordon Brown would be a good PM, ffs. I'm not going to stand in a corner because of it.
I suspect you might have put your case and opinions quite differently to the Bartman.
Which part of the UK has the strongest support for the Conservative Party?
Well, according to Deltapoll, the surprising answer is… wait for it… Wales!
Con VI:
Wales 32% Rest of South 27% North 24% London 19% Midlands 17% Scotland 9%
(Deltapoll, 13-17 October)
Midlands 17%
Just absorb that.
Midlands 17%
Of sweet lord.
This is where it would be particularly helpful to look at a few different polls in aggregate, because random variation in the subsamples will be large, and Wales is by far the lowest population area, so the size of the subsample will be smallest, and so the margin of error on that subsample will be largest - therefore, even if Tory support was even across the different regions, you would expect to see the highest score for the Tories in Wales if you looked at the scores across a few polls and picked the highest.
So you'd really want to check that this pattern was consistent across several polls.
You are of course completely correct.
But please don’t deny a weary old SNP activist his small pleasures in life. I’m in Schadenfreude heaven.
Midlands 17%
Just absorb that.
Midlands 17%
Of sweet lord.
Previously the last redoubt of pro Johnson, pro Brexit yamyammery.
The English Midlands are the key to governance in that country. If the Tories really are in the teens in that region then they are truly fucked. This is looking less and less like a Canada scenario and more like the demise of the once mighty Liberal Party. Yes, liberals still exist in English politics, but the movement is a pale shadow of its peak in the 19th and early 20th centuries. It is entirely possible that the Tories are heading for Lib Dem status: also-rans.
Taxi!
PB’s resident expert on all things English jets in from Sweden to opine.
If I held the opposite opinion, would my location undermine that opinion?
Well, that’s the view taken by Scottish posters on here when posters in England express any form of opinion on their country.
I believe Stuart has been seriously involved in Scottish politics from an early age, to the point of standing at one point if I'm not mistaken? I'll be happy to take seriously any 'posters in England' operating from a similar knowledge base on matters Scotch.
Form a queue here lads.
I think you misread the thread. I was critiquing his expressed expertise in English politics in the same way that Scots posters get incredibly wound up if someone from England (spit on the name) has the temerity, the gall, to express a view on even the weather north of the border. Despite your continued insistence that I’m some sort of drooling idiot, clearly I live in your head rent free, I am at least aware of the difference between England and Scotland.
I don't believe I've ever expressed an opinion on you idiocy or lack thereof (bit of projection going on there I think), but I am literally replying to your post going on about English posters expressing opinions on Scotland.
I think like a lot of English* you confuse 'ripping the pish' for 'incredibly wound up'.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
That's not principle it's personal priorities.
That we should not be increasing taxation on earned income while cutting taxation on unearned income is absolutely a matter of principle for me.
Taxes should be ideally low, but should be fair and consistently applied. That is a matter of principle.
We can all debate whether the tax burden needs to be higher or lower, but its more important that its fair and consistently applied. NI is neither fair nor consistently applied.
If you give me a forced choice of higher taxes, but consistently applied to all, or inconsistent taxes that are low for some and high for others on the exact same income, then I'd go for the higher but flat tax rate as the lesser evil.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.
I’ve made a few posts on here, in recent years, about the epidemic of cyber fraud and online scamming - and the utter unwillingness of the government to do its job protecting the people from it. Going after the people who do this shite.
We have scammers actively impersonating the police, HMRC and other government agencies and no meaningful attempt is made to stop it and go after the scum.
Appointing Michael Green to home sec is a special level of cynical.
The Tories really, really, really don’t care about Little People.
As opposed to the SNP who really do believe in the fairies at the end of the garden
The fairies of Scottish independence look a lot more attractive than the trolls of British Nationalism.
I am not aware of any British Nationalists on here. There are a few that probably backed UKIP, but you can't pin that one on me if that is your amoeba-brained attempt. Nationalism is the philosophy of the terminally braindead, which is clearly why you are an advocate. You love your country so much that you live in Sweden, while convincing yourself of your nationalistic credentials by thinly veiled Anglophobism of such racist mind-blowing stupidity and prejudice I suspect you make other slightly less hate-filled separatists wince with pain. Go and get some therapy and try and be a little more broadminded you sad little zealot.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
Always team Rishi here.
I recall saying her 'plan' was at least a clear plan, but it was a experiment, which 'might' work but was a risk.
And its clear we have the answer to the results of that experiment.
Interesting video (including a disagreement against my previous assertion, which may have been wrong, that, more or less black = sub-Saharan): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsTlb5a5LrY
Well that's just plain dumb - how can you punish MPs who saw conflicting reports if it was a confidence vote?
Even if it's a ploy as MikeL suggests re a vote of no confidence it would be too damaging.
and of course the 2019 Conservative manifesto was very clear on opposing fracking..... so although they did not vote with the govt (very much on naughty step) Fracking itself has no mandate.
I am on the fence about fracking - I have not looked into it deeply, and see conflicting views on here and elsewhere from people whose views I trust.
But given the energy crisis that has enveloped us, I think any 2019 manifesto commitments about energy can be broken. Manifestos are for ordinary times, and with respect to energy, these are not ordinary times.
I agree. The real question about fracking is whether our geology is actually suitable for economic extraction. If it is we should do it, just as we should be squeezing what we can from the North Sea, whatever those idiots on the QEII bridge think. The alternative is that we import the gas or oil from other places we would really rather not do business with (and our trade deficit gets even worse).
As an avowed environmentalist I reluctantly agree with this IFF combined with a coherent medium term plan to get out of gas and oil much faster than currently planned.
The lack of coherence about what follows it tops the scales back against it, currently, imo. We are just postponing a problem (decarbonising energy) which, the earlier we grapple with, the more we will benefit from (eg growth from expertise in alternative sources of energy)
There's no reason why we cannot both extract as much oil and gas from the North Sea and invest in alternative sources of energy.
That’s what I’m arguing for. But I fear at the moment we are doing the former in place of doing the latter at the scale we need. We should incentivise investment in alternatives far more than we are. It will pay itself back in droves.
I've no idea how much we are investing in energy production and development or how much we should be doing.
But there's many billions being invested in energy consumption.
Which is indicative of the underlying problem in this country - we think consumption is far more important than production and that consumption must be protected while production has to look after itself.
Piece on BBC news right now about large floating turbines that can be placed further out to sea. Looks good and they say we are world leaders in this. Lets stay in the lead.
But given the choice how many people would rather we invest in that or would prefer their house value to rise or would prefer another foreign holiday ?
The ratio towards the latter options ensuring that governments choose to boost wealth consumption and property prices.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Pick a day (almost) any day.
23rd August:
"A PM doesn't need to come up with every solution from scratch, they need to go through the proposed solutions (ideally reading them first) and choose the best options. Truss's critics have set the bar so low with all their OTT criticisms, that doing anything at all is going to seem dramatic in comparison."
"Truss may have played a blinder here. After people have been ramping up talk of £3k, £4k or £6k bills or higher, if this suggested proposal goes ahead and bills are frozen then that's possibly going to seek quite a significant step taken. Oh and if it's a loan, then possibly not a handout either. But the devil will be in the details of course. What's going to happen with SMEs will be as important as what happens with consumer bills and that doesn't seem to be getting discussed much yet if at all."
Edit: Tbf the '...dramatic in comparison' comment was pretty prescient.
Without reading the paywalled article the quote seems reasonable.
What's the thrust of the article - 'rampant wokism brainwashing our kids'?
Roughly yes.
He does have a point that much history as taught in schools is almost laughably bad, but there are two issues with this working group: (1) the real issue is the appalling mess that is the exam system, which is outside their remit. Unless that is reformed to something vaguely sane, any changes to the content are wasted effort and (2) as academies are free to set their own curriculum and the government's stated aim is to convert all schools to academies, there's very little point to a 'model curriculum' anyway.
I would add that in any case there's very little merit to curriculae imposed from the top, because it's not likely to be responsive to local needs. For example, round here you want to go big on Saxons and the Industrial Revolution because those are the key things that shaped the local area. In Gloucestershire I would want to teach about Romans, the Civil War and the slave trade for much the same reason.
Hmmm... Ok I am going to comment on something I know nothing about (as usual).
Two subjects there, surely? History and local history. Both have a place but imho everyone in this country should study all four of those topics you list to a reasonable level, under the History subject.
Local history study should be available for those with a particular interest.
What would it serve me to know everything about the Norman conquest and the Cinque Ports (I grew up in Hastings) but not much about the Industrial Revolution, once I left home and moved around the country/world?
One thing that is scandalously badly taught in England is 17th century history. Without understanding the results of the Civil War, Interregnum, “Glorious Revolution” and (stretching slightly over into the 18th) the Acts of Union you can’t understand the current constitution.
Which part of the UK has the strongest support for the Conservative Party?
Well, according to Deltapoll, the surprising answer is… wait for it… Wales!
Con VI:
Wales 32% Rest of South 27% North 24% London 19% Midlands 17% Scotland 9%
(Deltapoll, 13-17 October)
Midlands 17%
Just absorb that.
Midlands 17%
Of sweet lord.
This is where it would be particularly helpful to look at a few different polls in aggregate, because random variation in the subsamples will be large, and Wales is by far the lowest population area, so the size of the subsample will be smallest, and so the margin of error on that subsample will be largest - therefore, even if Tory support was even across the different regions, you would expect to see the highest score for the Tories in Wales if you looked at the scores across a few polls and picked the highest.
So you'd really want to check that this pattern was consistent across several polls.
You are of course completely correct.
But please don’t deny a weary old SNP activist his small pleasures in life. I’m in Schadenfreude heaven.
Midlands 17%
Just absorb that.
Midlands 17%
Of sweet lord.
Previously the last redoubt of pro Johnson, pro Brexit yamyammery.
The English Midlands are the key to governance in that country. If the Tories really are in the teens in that region then they are truly fucked. This is looking less and less like a Canada scenario and more like the demise of the once mighty Liberal Party. Yes, liberals still exist in English politics, but the movement is a pale shadow of its peak in the 19th and early 20th centuries. It is entirely possible that the Tories are heading for Lib Dem status: also-rans.
Taxi!
PB’s resident expert on all things English jets in from Sweden to opine.
If I held the opposite opinion, would my location undermine that opinion?
Well, that’s the view taken by Scottish posters on here when posters in England express any form of opinion on their country.
I believe Stuart has been seriously involved in Scottish politics from an early age, to the point of standing at one point if I'm not mistaken? I'll be happy to take seriously any 'posters in England' operating from a similar knowledge base on matters Scotch.
Form a queue here lads.
I think you misread the thread. I was critiquing his expressed expertise in English politics in the same way that Scots posters get incredibly wound up if someone from England (spit on the name) has the temerity, the gall, to express a view on even the weather north of the border. Despite your continued insistence that I’m some sort of drooling idiot, clearly I live in your head rent free, I am at least aware of the difference between England and Scotland.
I don't believe I've ever expressed an opinion on you idiocy or lack thereof (bit of projection going on there I think), but I am literally replying to your post going on about English posters expressing opinions on Scotland.
I think like a lot of English* you confuse 'ripping the pish' for 'incredibly wound up'.
*Is that racist? Sorry/not sorry.
My post was in response to Dickson, who is an avowed Anglophobe with admitted feelings of ill-will towards England and the English, few on here reciprocate with regard to Scotland, opining on English politics like an expert. He's expressing a double standard. I've no doubt he's an expert on Scottish politics but he can't expect to opine on English politics without getting called out in the same way, for the same reason, as you get your knickers in a wad if someone from "Ingerlandshire" (as you call it) says anything about Scotland.
@Peston Talking to member of the cabinet last night, it’s clear there is a collective will among ministers to try to keep Liz Truss in office till 31 October, so that the chancellor can determine which further taxes need to rise and what spending should be cut in that de facto budget, the medium term fiscal plan, without the instability of not knowing who will be next PM.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Anyway, naming and shaming like that is wrong and discourages the free interplay of ideas and principles.
I thought Gordon Brown would be a good PM, ffs. I'm not going to stand in a corner because of it.
I suspect you might have put your case and opinions quite differently to the Bartman.
He occasionally uses facts and reason. I don't bother, mate.
If Jizzy Lizzy doesn't title her biography, "Close to Properly Crackers" she's really fucking up.
Dear diary. I keep hearing people at Tory party dinners saying “oh, Jacob’s crackers, wonderful”. I can’t let that Victorian pipsqueek be PM. I’m going to make sure that when people think of crackers they think of me.
I don’t see the logic of keeping Truss in place till after the budget unless she’s going to remain well into next year . If she’s going to be used as a human shield for the cuts , the focus of the public anger and then a new leader comes in with a cleanish slate but really that means someone from outside the cabinet . Braverman v Sunak but the Tories surely wouldn’t let that go to the membership?
@Peston Talking to member of the cabinet last night, it’s clear there is a collective will among ministers to try to keep Liz Truss in office till 31 October, so that the chancellor can determine which further taxes need to rise and what spending should be cut in that de facto budget, the medium term fiscal plan, without the instability of not knowing who will be next PM.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
This 5 min segment from Russian TV is interesting. They admit to there being no good news to come from Kherson in the next 2 months, they have difficulty with supplies and are outnumbered 4 to 1. There is also the usual rubbish about how Ukraine wants to kill civilians and are going to use chemical weapons. However, on more than one occasion they also have dispensed with "Special Military Operation" in favour of "war".
Meanwhile in Russia: anger and disappointment fill the studio, as the viewers are being prepared for the loss of Kherson and other territories. Host Olga Skabeeva bitterly questions why Russia was so wrong in the beginning, believing that Zelensky would run & NATO wouldn't help. https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1582794925304729601
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
Always team Rishi here.
I recall saying her 'plan' was at least a clear plan, but it was a experiment, which 'might' work but was a risk.
And its clear we have the answer to the results of that experiment.
I had a fairly strong and negative reaction to her plan to fund tax cuts with borrowing, but I didn't expect the markets to do the same. I natively expected them to respond, "Yay, tax cuts!" and then to worry about the spending cuts later.
This is how the Tories prevent total meltdown at the next election:
1) Appoint Mordaunt as titular leader 2) Hunt as Chancellor calling most of the shots 3) Sunak as FS or HS but part of the main decision-making triumvirate 4) Appoint Steve Baker as business sec to have one of the few intelligent Brexiteers on side 5)sack all the clowns such as JRM 6) Copy every good policy Labour suggests: windfall taxes etc. etc. 6a) Offer Labour an opportunity to work with Government to find centre ground policies in national interest 7)offer a serious path to a genuine once in a lifetime referendum on Scottish indy, but including devomax 8)Hope for some luck
Agree with most of this. 6a will be hard/impossible.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Anyway, naming and shaming like that is wrong and discourages the free interplay of ideas and principles.
You old hippy. I'd ban brexiteers from entering public buildings or writing on public forums.
On the topic of the hour, hat-tip to the late Francis Pym who was sacked by Margaret Thatcher for opining "Landslides don't on the whole produce successful governments".
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
Always team Rishi here.
I recall saying her 'plan' was at least a clear plan, but it was a experiment, which 'might' work but was a risk.
And its clear we have the answer to the results of that experiment.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself . I don’t think even the ardent anti-Trussers in here thought she’d be as bad as what’s transpired .
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Hey, the cock just crowed. Don't deny it. You were a fan. Just as you were of Johnson. Well done. You have backed the two worst and most damaging PMs in the history of this country. They have both probably ensured that we are stuck with Labour for the next 20 years and it is thanks to political illiterates such as you.
I still am. No regrets. The Health and Social Care Levy is axed, mission accomplished.
Bring on Labour, I don't care. I'm not a partisan shill. If the Tories are just going to be increasing National Insurance then I might as well vote Labour anyway - at least Labour are more liberal on social issues and don't have authoritarians wanting to restrict civil liberties or immigration.
I do find it depressing though. I don't see a Labour front bench full of talent and their conference worried me with the desire to interfere everywhere. I support the LDs, but there are two problems there: a) They also don't have an inspiring group of MPs either and b) they aren't going to form a Govt.
The Today programme this morning had Max Hastings and Polly Toynbee on in surprise agreement on the lack of talent in the HofC (and making the point that they didn't think it was a case of old fogies with fond memories of the old days). Sadly I think they are correct.
This is how the Tories prevent total meltdown at the next election:
1) Appoint Mordaunt as titular leader 2) Hunt as Chancellor calling most of the shots 3) Sunak as FS or HS but part of the main decision-making triumvirate 4) Appoint Steve Baker as business sec to have one of the few intelligent Brexiteers on side 5)sack all the clowns such as JRM 6) Copy every good policy Labour suggests: windfall taxes etc. etc. 6a) Offer Labour an opportunity to work with Government to find centre ground policies in national interest 7)offer a serious path to a genuine once in a lifetime referendum on Scottish indy, but including devomax 8)Hope for some luck
6 is a problem, since Labour refuse to announce policies.
7 is a problem, because the SNP will never accept defeat in a referendum.
They have to announce some. And they will. The reality is that they know they can't announce any major change in spending, so anything they suggest Jeremy can agree with. He can tell the electorate there is no point in voting Labour. It will force their hand as they will be continually asked what their policies are.
Regarding 7. It is a risk. My guess is that the very sensible people of Scotland will go for devomax, in the same way as the UK as a whole would have voted for EEA instead of hard Brexit. It would be seen as compromise.
I’ve made a few posts on here, in recent years, about the epidemic of cyber fraud and online scamming - and the utter unwillingness of the government to do its job protecting the people from it. Going after the people who do this shite.
We have scammers actively impersonating the police, HMRC and other government agencies and no meaningful attempt is made to stop it and go after the scum.
Appointing Michael Green to home sec is a special level of cynical.
The Tories really, really, really don’t care about Little People.
As opposed to the SNP who really do believe in the fairies at the end of the garden
I switched from No at the last referendum to a Yes, if it was happening now. Imagine England being ruled by Scottish Nationalists, with no regard to any variation in core beliefs for England, including returning to the EU, even if it meant using the Euro and uniting Ireland, even when most English don't want to. Think there'd be a surge in English wanting a breakaway, regardless of economics? I'd rather have neither but better a Scottish Nationalist ruling Scotland, than English.
Interesting video (including a disagreement against my previous assertion, which may have been wrong, that, more or less black = sub-Saharan): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsTlb5a5LrY
Without reading the paywalled article the quote seems reasonable.
What's the thrust of the article - 'rampant wokism brainwashing our kids'?
Roughly yes.
He does have a point that much history as taught in schools is almost laughably bad, but there are two issues with this working group: (1) the real issue is the appalling mess that is the exam system, which is outside their remit. Unless that is reformed to something vaguely sane, any changes to the content are wasted effort and (2) as academies are free to set their own curriculum and the government's stated aim is to convert all schools to academies, there's very little point to a 'model curriculum' anyway.
I would add that in any case there's very little merit to curriculae imposed from the top, because it's not likely to be responsive to local needs. For example, round here you want to go big on Saxons and the Industrial Revolution because those are the key things that shaped the local area. In Gloucestershire I would want to teach about Romans, the Civil War and the slave trade for much the same reason.
Hmmm... Ok I am going to comment on something I know nothing about (as usual).
Two subjects there, surely? History and local history. Both have a place but imho everyone in this country should study all four of those topics you list to a reasonable level, under the History subject.
Local history study should be available for those with a particular interest.
What would it serve me to know everything about the Norman conquest and the Cinque Ports (I grew up in Hastings) but not much about the Industrial Revolution, once I left home and moved around the country/world?
One thing that is scandalously badly taught in England is 17th century history. Without understanding the results of the Civil War, Interregnum, “Glorious Revolution” and (stretching slightly over into the 18th) the Acts of Union you can’t understand the current constitution.
Good morning all; although it isn't, as it's raining quite hard here.
I've been interested in politics, and indeed active, since the 1950s and this is the third clusterfuck I've seen. The first was Suez, the second the dying days of Gordon Brown's government, but this is by far the worst. I really do fear for my country!
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Hey, the cock just crowed. Don't deny it. You were a fan. Just as you were of Johnson. Well done. You have backed the two worst and most damaging PMs in the history of this country. They have both probably ensured that we are stuck with Labour for the next 20 years and it is thanks to political illiterates such as you.
I still am. No regrets. The Health and Social Care Levy is axed, mission accomplished.
Bring on Labour, I don't care. I'm not a partisan shill. If the Tories are just going to be increasing National Insurance then I might as well vote Labour anyway - at least Labour are more liberal on social issues and don't have authoritarians wanting to restrict civil liberties or immigration.
I guess as you don't work or have a business you won't be too worried. And greater opportunity for more opinionated and ultimately pointless keyboard warriory
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself . I don’t think even the ardent anti-Trussers in here thought she’d be as bad as what’s transpired .
I don't mind being proved wrong by events. It happens. You can learn from it.
It's the people who think they've proven me wrong with faulty logic and misunderstood facts that is irksome.
Mr. Foremain, ha, thanks. It's important to be willing to modify a position when evidence points that way, especially with history, otherwise you end up with lies and propaganda.
And how else can we accurately learn the lessons of history? Imagine being wilfully blind to historical truth. It'd be like claiming Julius Caesar was a better general than Hannibal.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
Always team Rishi here.
I recall saying her 'plan' was at least a clear plan, but it was a experiment, which 'might' work but was a risk.
And its clear we have the answer to the results of that experiment.
I had a fairly strong and negative reaction to her plan to fund tax cuts with borrowing, but I didn't expect the markets to do the same. I natively expected them to respond, "Yay, tax cuts!" and then to worry about the spending cuts later.
In fairness to Kwasi and Truss (I'm in a generous mood today), I think they really believed their policies would work and be well-received. They must have been as shocked as any of us by the actual response.
Personally (for what very little it is worth) I thought she had the potential for disaster but might just possibly bear out Leondamus's prediction of surprising on the upside.
Even I'm surprised how far on the downside she turned out to be. And (in fairness again) I have to say I agree with NickP's view that the basic problem is that she is out of her depth, rather than malicious.
I’ve made a few posts on here, in recent years, about the epidemic of cyber fraud and online scamming - and the utter unwillingness of the government to do its job protecting the people from it. Going after the people who do this shite.
We have scammers actively impersonating the police, HMRC and other government agencies and no meaningful attempt is made to stop it and go after the scum.
Appointing Michael Green to home sec is a special level of cynical.
The Tories really, really, really don’t care about Little People.
As opposed to the SNP who really do believe in the fairies at the end of the garden
I switched from No at the last referendum to a Yes, if it was happening now. Imagine England being ruled by Scottish Nationalists, with no regard to any variation in core beliefs for England, including returning to the EU, even if it meant using the Euro and uniting Ireland, even when most English don't want to. Think there'd be a surge in English wanting a breakaway, regardless of economics? I'd rather have neither but better a Scottish Nationalist ruling Scotland, than English.
I am sorry to break this to you but "The English" are quite a diverse lot. Try and get some diversity training it might help you pigeonhole people a little less.
This is how the Tories prevent total meltdown at the next election:
1) Appoint Mordaunt as titular leader 2) Hunt as Chancellor calling most of the shots 3) Sunak as FS or HS but part of the main decision-making triumvirate 4) Appoint Steve Baker as business sec to have one of the few intelligent Brexiteers on side 5)sack all the clowns such as JRM 6) Copy every good policy Labour suggests: windfall taxes etc. etc. 6a) Offer Labour an opportunity to work with Government to find centre ground policies in national interest 7)offer a serious path to a genuine once in a lifetime referendum on Scottish indy, but including devomax 8)Hope for some luck
6 is a problem, since Labour refuse to announce policies.
7 is a problem, because the SNP will never accept defeat in a referendum.
They have to announce some. And they will. The reality is that they know they can't announce any major change in spending, so anything they suggest Jeremy can agree with. He can tell the electorate there is no point in voting Labour. It will force their hand as they will be continually asked what their policies are.
Regarding 7. It is a risk. My guess is that the very sensible people of Scotland will go for devomax, in the same way as the UK as a whole would have voted for EEA instead of hard Brexit. It would be seen as compromise.
Given 3 options - that means a complex voting system and it's very likely that Devomax would be knocked out first.
Good morning all; although it isn't, as it's raining quite hard here.
I've been interested in politics, and indeed active, since the 1950s and this is the third clusterfuck I've seen. The first was Suez, the second the dying days of Gordon Brown's government, but this is by far the worst. I really do fear for my country!
Mr. Foremain, ha, thanks. It's important to be willing to modify a position when evidence points that way, especially with history, otherwise you end up with lies and propaganda.
And how else can we accurately learn the lessons of history? Imagine being wilfully blind to historical truth. It'd be like claiming Julius Caesar was a better general than Hannibal.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Leon. Erm… That’s it.
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!
Excuse me, I never ramped her.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Hey, the cock just crowed. Don't deny it. You were a fan. Just as you were of Johnson. Well done. You have backed the two worst and most damaging PMs in the history of this country. They have both probably ensured that we are stuck with Labour for the next 20 years and it is thanks to political illiterates such as you.
I still am. No regrets. The Health and Social Care Levy is axed, mission accomplished.
Bring on Labour, I don't care. I'm not a partisan shill. If the Tories are just going to be increasing National Insurance then I might as well vote Labour anyway - at least Labour are more liberal on social issues and don't have authoritarians wanting to restrict civil liberties or immigration.
I do find it depressing though. I don't see a Labour front bench full of talent and their conference worried me with the desire to interfere everywhere. I support the LDs, but there are two problems there: a) They also don't have an inspiring group of MPs either and b) they aren't going to form a Govt.
The Today programme this morning had Max Hastings and Polly Toynbee on in surprise agreement on the lack of talent in the HofC (and making the point that they didn't think it was a case of old fogies with fond memories of the old days). Sadly I think they are correct.
I've been saying that for years. since the dawn of 24/7 news and especially the dawn of social media where everyone now things they have the right to hassle you all the time, no one sane wishes to be an MP.
There are a lot better and easier ways to earn more money and lot easier ways to do local good.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
Always team Rishi here.
I recall saying her 'plan' was at least a clear plan, but it was a experiment, which 'might' work but was a risk.
And its clear we have the answer to the results of that experiment.
I had a fairly strong and negative reaction to her plan to fund tax cuts with borrowing, but I didn't expect the markets to do the same. I natively expected them to respond, "Yay, tax cuts!" and then to worry about the spending cuts later.
In fairness to Kwasi and Truss (I'm in a generous mood today), I think they really believed their policies would work and be well-received. They must have been as shocked as any of us by the actual response.
Personally (for what very little it is worth) I thought she had the potential for disaster but might just possibly bear out Leondamus's prediction of surprising on the upside.
Even I'm surprised how far on the downside she turned out to be. And (in fairness again) I have to say I agree with NickP's view that the basic problem is that she is out of her depth, rather than malicious.
I can understand them thinking they would work, but why well received? There are things such as opinion polls, or listening to your colleagues. And if they were to somehow work it would be over timescales that would not have seen them through the winter regardless.
Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
Always team Rishi here.
I recall saying her 'plan' was at least a clear plan, but it was a experiment, which 'might' work but was a risk.
And its clear we have the answer to the results of that experiment.
I had a fairly strong and negative reaction to her plan to fund tax cuts with borrowing, but I didn't expect the markets to do the same. I natively expected them to respond, "Yay, tax cuts!" and then to worry about the spending cuts later.
In fairness to Kwasi and Truss (I'm in a generous mood today), I think they really believed their policies would work and be well-received. They must have been as shocked as any of us by the actual response.
Personally (for what very little it is worth) I thought she had the potential for disaster but might just possibly bear out Leondamus's prediction of surprising on the upside.
Even I'm surprised how far on the downside she turned out to be. And (in fairness again) I have to say I agree with NickP's view that the basic problem is that she is out of her depth, rather than malicious.
The fairness stops at the point you realise they actively went out of their way to avoid anyone scrutinising and sanity checking their mini-budget plans before they were announced.
I know HMRC's reaction was well we aren't going to focus on IR35 because we've spent the last 10+ years telling you we can't control it as it's currently legislated.
Without reading the paywalled article the quote seems reasonable.
What's the thrust of the article - 'rampant wokism brainwashing our kids'?
Roughly yes.
He does have a point that much history as taught in schools is almost laughably bad, but there are two issues with this working group: (1) the real issue is the appalling mess that is the exam system, which is outside their remit. Unless that is reformed to something vaguely sane, any changes to the content are wasted effort and (2) as academies are free to set their own curriculum and the government's stated aim is to convert all schools to academies, there's very little point to a 'model curriculum' anyway.
I would add that in any case there's very little merit to curriculae imposed from the top, because it's not likely to be responsive to local needs. For example, round here you want to go big on Saxons and the Industrial Revolution because those are the key things that shaped the local area. In Gloucestershire I would want to teach about Romans, the Civil War and the slave trade for much the same reason.
Hmmm... Ok I am going to comment on something I know nothing about (as usual).
Two subjects there, surely? History and local history. Both have a place but imho everyone in this country should study all four of those topics you list to a reasonable level, under the History subject.
Local history study should be available for those with a particular interest.
What would it serve me to know everything about the Norman conquest and the Cinque Ports (I grew up in Hastings) but not much about the Industrial Revolution, once I left home and moved around the country/world?
One thing that is scandalously badly taught in England is 17th century history. Without understanding the results of the Civil War, Interregnum, “Glorious Revolution” and (stretching slightly over into the 18th) the Acts of Union you can’t understand the current constitution.
In July I related how it was thought she would be a disaster and more recently how she would be turfed out. The same person now says that it is not long to go although that of course has now become the mainstream position.
Comments
Form a queue here lads.
I never thought she'd be popular or win the next election, but wanted her to win as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. #NoRegrets
1) Appoint Mordaunt as titular leader
2) Hunt as Chancellor calling most of the shots
3) Sunak as FS or HS but part of the main decision-making triumvirate
4) Appoint Steve Baker as business sec to have one of the few intelligent Brexiteers on side
5)sack all the clowns such as JRM
6) Copy every good policy Labour suggests: windfall taxes etc. etc.
6a) Offer Labour an opportunity to work with Government to find centre ground policies in national interest
7)offer a serious path to a genuine once in a lifetime referendum on Scottish indy, but including devomax
8)Hope for some luck
WilliamGlenn, previously vociferously pro-Remain, used to be a good guy.
LuckyGuy, the Martin Day or Pluto de nos jours. With friends like that, Liz needs no enemies.
Worst missed opportunity though was the history of a certain bank, which is called 'Messrs C Hoare and Co.' When it could so easily have been 'Banking with Real Hoares.'
7 is a problem, because the SNP will never accept defeat in a referendum.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
You were her number one fan, alongside the LuckyMan.
Worth noting the gap between the Tories in Canada getting reduced down to literally just 2 seats and when they regained the PM at another election was no worse than it was for the Tories in England following 1997.
The answer they got back, according to four people at separate institutions who were in such conversations and who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private meetings, was that it probably could — though a crash does not appear to be imminent.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/19/business/economy/uk-united-states-markets.html
Might account for Biden's intemperate remarks....
I thought Gordon Brown would be a good PM, ffs. I'm not going to stand in a corner because of it.
But very good at posting thousands of posts.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Bring on Labour, I don't care. I'm not a partisan shill. If the Tories are just going to be increasing National Insurance then I might as well vote Labour anyway - at least Labour are more liberal on social issues and don't have authoritarians wanting to restrict civil liberties or immigration.
I think like a lot of English* you confuse 'ripping the pish' for 'incredibly wound up'.
*Is that racist? Sorry/not sorry.
Taxes should be ideally low, but should be fair and consistently applied. That is a matter of principle.
We can all debate whether the tax burden needs to be higher or lower, but its more important that its fair and consistently applied. NI is neither fair nor consistently applied.
If you give me a forced choice of higher taxes, but consistently applied to all, or inconsistent taxes that are low for some and high for others on the exact same income, then I'd go for the higher but flat tax rate as the lesser evil.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
I recall saying her 'plan' was at least a clear plan, but it was a experiment, which 'might' work but was a risk.
And its clear we have the answer to the results of that experiment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsTlb5a5LrY
So, seems I may have been mistaken.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63300959
But given the choice how many people would rather we invest in that or would prefer their house value to rise or would prefer another foreign holiday ?
The ratio towards the latter options ensuring that governments choose to boost wealth consumption and property prices.
23rd August:
"A PM doesn't need to come up with every solution from scratch, they need to go through the proposed solutions (ideally reading them first) and choose the best options.
Truss's critics have set the bar so low with all their OTT criticisms, that doing anything at all is going to seem dramatic in comparison."
"Truss may have played a blinder here. After people have been ramping up talk of £3k, £4k or £6k bills or higher, if this suggested proposal goes ahead and bills are frozen then that's possibly going to seek quite a significant step taken.
Oh and if it's a loan, then possibly not a handout either.
But the devil will be in the details of course. What's going to happen with SMEs will be as important as what happens with consumer bills and that doesn't seem to be getting discussed much yet if at all."
Edit: Tbf the '...dramatic in comparison' comment was pretty prescient.
– History
https://libguides.ctstatelibrary.org/hg/colonialresearch/calendar
Meanwhile in Russia: anger and disappointment fill the studio, as the viewers are being prepared for the loss of Kherson and other territories. Host Olga Skabeeva bitterly questions why Russia was so wrong in the beginning, believing that Zelensky would run & NATO wouldn't help.
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1582794925304729601
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
.......and I'd flog the ringleaders
Problems coming down the road? (pun intended)
https://youtu.be/OpEB6hCpIGM?t=11
The Today programme this morning had Max Hastings and Polly Toynbee on in surprise agreement on the lack of talent in the HofC (and making the point that they didn't think it was a case of old fogies with fond memories of the old days). Sadly I think they are correct.
Regarding 7. It is a risk. My guess is that the very sensible people of Scotland will go for devomax, in the same way as the UK as a whole would have voted for EEA instead of hard Brexit. It would be seen as compromise.
https://www.history.com/news/henry-ford-antisemitism-worker-treatment
I've been interested in politics, and indeed active, since the 1950s and this is the third clusterfuck I've seen. The first was Suez, the second the dying days of Gordon Brown's government, but this is by far the worst. I really do fear for my country!
It's the people who think they've proven me wrong with faulty logic and misunderstood facts that is irksome.
And how else can we accurately learn the lessons of history? Imagine being wilfully blind to historical truth. It'd be like claiming Julius Caesar was a better general than Hannibal.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
Personally (for what very little it is worth) I thought she had the potential for disaster but might just possibly bear out Leondamus's prediction of surprising on the upside.
Even I'm surprised how far on the downside she turned out to be. And (in fairness again) I have to say I agree with NickP's view that the basic problem is that she is out of her depth, rather than malicious.
A difficult question...
There are a lot better and easier ways to earn more money and lot easier ways to do local good.
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.
What happened yesterday between Berlin and Paris is truly concerning, not just for Franco-German partnership but the entire EU.
Following growing tensions and the inability to agree on energy & defense, 🇫🇷 and 🇩🇪 postponed a long-planned summit. Macron cancelled Scholz [THREAD]
https://twitter.com/vonderburchard/status/1582991739702296577
Someone will have to drag the cable up from the sea floor to have a look.
Edit: The Faroese one went last week? Hmm.
Once is happenstance...
I know HMRC's reaction was well we aren't going to focus on IR35 because we've spent the last 10+ years telling you we can't control it as it's currently legislated.
In July I related how it was thought she would be a disaster and more recently how she would be turfed out. The same person now says that it is not long to go although that of course has now become the mainstream position.