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New R&W poll: Just 19% support local fracking – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    @rcs1000

    Tactiacal voting would certainly reduce the number of Tory MPs, probably down to single figures.

    The LDs might just become the official Opposition, but more likely it would be the SNP. Ian Blackwood must be having wet dreams at the possibility, and it certainly is possible.

    How can the Scottish Nationalists be His Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
    Scottish *National* Party is not republican, as we amply saw last month, so what's the problem?
  • Deep Tofu state.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    @rcs1000

    Tactiacal voting would certainly reduce the number of Tory MPs, probably down to single figures.

    The LDs might just become the official Opposition, but more likely it would be the SNP. Ian Blackwood must be having wet dreams at the possibility, and it certainly is possible.

    How can the Scottish Nationalists be His Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
    They’re not republicans, so what’s the problem?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    NEW: what a tangled web they weave… Sources say Javid was in running for Home Sec after massive row between Suella and PM last night about relaxing visas - but forced out one of her closest advisers this morning so now likely to be Shapps
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1582756925132791810
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    rcs1000 said:

    AlistairM said:

    Braverman gone!

    LBW?
    Caught behind.
    At least it wasn't handling the ball!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’ve just discovered my train has unlimited free booze. This could get ugly




  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Speaking of the Ship of Theseus, Jacob Rees-Mogg has just suggested local referendums on fracking. The govt is now spending huge amounts of political capital to defend a pro-fracking policy under which no fracking will ever happen.
    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1582756953608294400
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’ve just discovered my train has unlimited free booze. This could get ugly




    As long as you have a data connection you are in the perfect place to watch the end of the world the end of Truss
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’ve just discovered my train has unlimited free booze. This could get ugly




    Put the phone down....repeat the phone down...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    @rcs1000

    Tactiacal voting would certainly reduce the number of Tory MPs, probably down to single figures.

    The LDs might just become the official Opposition, but more likely it would be the SNP. Ian Blackwood must be having wet dreams at the possibility, and it certainly is possible.

    How can the Scottish Nationalists be His Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
    Please correct me if I'm mistaken, OKC, but they would be second largest Party in Westminster, ...so they automatically become the official Opposition.

    No?
    Not disputing the numbers, Mr P, but how can a party which wants to leave His Majesty's realm be considered a Loyal Opposition?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    *social media manager for tofu brand fires up tweetdeck, deliberates over how to fire their one shot*

    hell hath no fury like a woman quorned

    etcetctetc
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited October 2022
    Even more reason to avoid the Tory membership now as they’re likely to vote for the most hideous candidate that being Braverman .
  • Good riddance to Braverman.
  • So was Suella
    (a) sacked by Truss
    (b) sacked by Hunt
    (c) flounced because her "Yoghurt-Knitting Tofu-Eating Wokerati" comments were see as piss funny for a student but not something that one of the great officers of state would say
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’ve just discovered my train has unlimited free booze. This could get ugly




    The bloke in the sunglasses looks as if he’s already taken advantage of the free booze.
  • rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shapps seems like a poor appointment, I'm surprised they didn't go for Priti Patel.

    211 members of the Conservative Parliamentary Party were asked to become Truss's Home Secretary, and Shapps was the one one to accept.
    Only because the other 210 were alter egos of Shapps.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Massive Downing St pile on against @sajidjavid . “If Saj hadn’t humiliated the PM” - by forcing her to suspend adviser Stein - “he’d probably be home secretary now, not Shapps”. Wow. Rome is burning https://twitter.com/peston/status/1582755650672525313
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shapps seems like a poor appointment, I'm surprised they didn't go for Priti Patel.

    211 members of the Conservative Parliamentary Party were asked to become Truss's Home Secretary, and Shapps was the one one to accept.
    Hunt's Home Secretary*
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’ve just discovered my train has unlimited free booze. This could get ugly




    So where is your choo-choo heading to? Guessing answer is NOT Chattanooga?

    EDIT - Just saw answer upthread - your heading to Utah, across the Front Range and Western Slope.

    Wonder IF the free booze ends at the state line?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    ·
    1m
    Massive Downing St pile on against
    @sajidjavid
    . “If Saj hadn’t humiliated the PM” - by forcing her to suspend adviser Stein - “he’d probably be home secretary now, not Shapps”. Wow. Rome is burning
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’ve just discovered my train has unlimited free booze. This could get ugly




    Put the phone down....repeat the phone down...
    Fret not. There is no wifi and the signal goes down when we hit the deserts and the Rockies

    You will be spared my running commentary on the Endtimes
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited October 2022

    @rcs1000

    Tactiacal voting would certainly reduce the number of Tory MPs, probably down to single figures.

    The LDs might just become the official Opposition, but more likely it would be the SNP. Ian Blackwood must be having wet dreams at the possibility, and it certainly is possible.

    How can the Scottish Nationalists be His Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
    Please correct me if I'm mistaken, OKC, but they would be second largest Party in Westminster, ...so they automatically become the official Opposition.

    No?
    Not disputing the numbers, Mr P, but how can a party which wants to leave His Majesty's realm be considered a Loyal Opposition?
    Not leave it, but remove part of it. As I said, the SNP is not a republican party. Think Commonwealth.
  • Email on a private phone why she has had to go.

    Suella Braverman is Hillary Clinton and I claim $5
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648

    Deep Tofu state.

    No more red meat for the base, only nut roast.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: what a tangled web they weave… Sources say Javid was in running for Home Sec after massive row between Suella and PM last night about relaxing visas - but forced out one of her closest advisers this morning so now likely to be Shapps
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1582756925132791810

    Utterly insane, if true.

    Presumably this is related to the Indian Free Trade Agreement. And presumably Braverman said "I can't support the visa element of the deal". And Truss said "I need this fucking deal for fucks sake. You're fucking fired."

    Or something like that.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Hunt getting his team in place

    After four slips, and a silly mid-on from Truss, Hunt pushes all the fielders back to the boundary.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    rcs1000 said:

    OK. You know how I said that Truss was going to keep her head down, hope for a resolution in Ukraine, and would see her ratings (and Tory polling) recover somewhat.

    I was wrong.

    Sacking Braverman (an I am no Suella fan) weeks into the job is madness, and pretty much guarantees an imminent challenge.

    rcs1000 said:

    OK. You know how I said that Truss was going to keep her head down, hope for a resolution in Ukraine, and would see her ratings (and Tory polling) recover somewhat.

    I was wrong.

    Sacking Braverman (an I am no Suella fan) weeks into the job is madness, and pretty much guarantees an imminent challenge.

    My feelings exactly.

    Until today, Truss survived until next year.

    Now, I'm not sure she survives as leader until November.....
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    The Conservative party is very publically and very fatally disintegrating. They need to put in place a team under Hunt, Mordaunt or Sunak by the weekend
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Chameleon said:

    Big Tofu wokerati at it again.

    Via their place man, "Quorn" Hunt.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Still, no need to worry


    “It now seems likely Putin will detonate some sort of nuclear device in or around Ukraine. That will precipitate the biggest global crisis since Cuba. This morning ministers and Tory MPs are saying the only person they can find to lead us through that crisis is Liz Truss.”

    https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1582627095486038016?s=46&t=1KENNfcwOvbWPl8-mRg2Ew

    I love how everyone treats Hodges saying Brady has zillions of letters in as gospel but they'll poo poo this.
    Reading between the lines “Russia drops a tactical nuke” now seems as likely as not

    There is no other way Putin can win. If his army is not capable of a second invasion from Belarus, he is out of options
    It is also not a way he can win.

    It's not impossible that he is mad enough to resort to a nuclear weapon, but it's certainly not 'as likely as not'.
    This from @ozymandias seems the best explanation for recent events


    “None. It's an opinion same as any other opinion about "what may happen" on this site. It does seem odd Wallace jetting off (and there are plenty of other ways of avoiding a commons vote), something obviously happened when Truss did her disappearing act (alternative being she was strapped down and given a heavy dose of Ketamine).

    Putin wouldn't go straight in with a full nuclear attack as that loses him his leverage. Nukes are tools of leverage. So the obvious path would be a detonation under the guise of an "exercise" to prove he's not mucking about. Informing the US would be a necessary step to avoid any misunderstanding.”

    It’s not nice. But that adds up
    I've been saying for a couple of weeks now that Putin escalates this by conducting some kind of nuclear test on his own soil. In one fell swoop, the markets will nosedive, precipitating a financial crisis in the west. Not to mention the total hysteria it will cause - a run on loo roll, baked beans, etc. He can and will inflict significant economic damage on the west in a way we can't do anything about.

    This is almost inevitably the next escalation. The only question is where it goes from there.

    (Sound of ominous blue teletype on a black screen, a la Threads)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    edited October 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    But it's not a hypothecated tax now, it's just a tax like any other. You're proposing to increase taxes on the working poor so you can keep your inheritance. Do you not see how immoral that is, as a church going person I think your reverend would have words with you. Impoverishing those without so you can enrich yourself with your parents wealth one day is morally wrong.

    Well it should be a hypothecation insurance/tax as it was set up to be.

    It was not the working poor who Sunak raised National insurance on to fund social care but higher earners, indeed the very poor don't pay National insurance at all.

    Proper Tories, including High Tory Anglicans would support preservation of inherited wealth. Don't you try lecturing me on what is morally wrong just because proper Tory values are not you libertarian agenda, tough!!!!
    It has nothing to do with libertarians or Tories. It is a straight moral issue. You want people poorer than your parents to fund their care through their taxes so you can inherit their wealth. That is a clear moral issue regardless of politics and I think Max is right in what your vicar might think
    It has everything to do with libertarians or Tories.

    Both you and Max are classical liberals, more in common with each other than traditional Tories.

    Scrapping the £86k cap hits average homeowners or less with £200k to £400k homes especially hard as most of their estate goes in care costs.

    The biggest rise in NI by Sunak by far was for those earning over £100k, lower earners even saw a slight NI cut.

    So don't give me this crap about NI hitting the poor most while the social care cap only protects the rich!!!
    That is the 2nd time now you have accused me of saying 'poor' when I actually said 'poorer' The words have very different meanings. Try reading what I say.

    You want people POORER (not the poor) than your parents to fund their care through their taxes so you can inherit their wealth.
    No I don't, the biggest increase in NI was for those earning over £100k who are certainly not poorer than my parents, anyone earning average income of £35k or less had no NI rise.

    You by contrast want average home owners with properties of £200k to £400k to lose most of their property value in care costs by scrapping the £86k care cap
    You are dissembling by picking on the recent changes.

    You want people who pay tax and NI say who earn, £20,000, or £30,000 or £50,000 and have mortgages on a small house to contribute to your parents care costs so that you can inherit their wealth.

    That is people who I am guessing are actually POORER than your parents.

    That is correct isn't it?

    Also I don't want people to lose their properties at all. I have never said that.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790
    edited October 2022
    I've just logged on to check the news and... oh ffs. Can they just stop. All of them, just stop. Now. And go away.
  • "An honest mistake involving a work e-mail on a private phone". That will be seen as a stitch-up by Braverman backers (probably correctly). I think Hunt's play is to split the right-wing vote in the MPs phase of any leadership contest.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    We’re being filmed


  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’ve just discovered my train has unlimited free booze. This could get ugly




    So where is your choo-choo heading to? Guessing answer is NOT Chattanooga?

    EDIT - Just saw answer upthread - your heading to Utah, across the Front Range and Western Slope.

    Wonder IF the free booze ends at the state line?
    Not track 29?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited October 2022
    Braverman going is the first sensible thing Truss has ever done. She was poison
  • Cruella Braverman ousted at the behest of Jeremy Hunt, I cannot even...

    Anyhoo, things will calm down by the weekend as Mike's holiday begins this weekend.

    I am expecting a quiet nine day stint as guest editor
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    Cruella gone

    'Clever'ly next?

    Is this, as rumoured this morning, Hunt making his own cabinet picks?
    If so, Truss is surely toast..... ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,635
    edited October 2022
    Sam Coates reporting that Braverman has gone for two reasons, one of which is because she shared secure information on a private phone.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1582759424296620032
  • MaxPB said:

    Shapps seems like a poor appointment, I'm surprised they didn't go for Priti Patel.

    You begin to wonder when Larry the Cat gets a seat in Cabinet.
    Yes. The claws are out!

    Sadly, NOT the clowns . . . yet . . .
  • Leon said:

    If anyone needs me during these last hours before Armageddon, I’m on this train heading from Denver to Moab






    I’d like to think this gives me a slender chance of survival but unfortunately the tracks go right past a major NORAD HQ

    Have you seen Under Siege 2?
    "Chance favours the prepared mind!"

    "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups!"
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2022
    Quick check of Wiki suggests she is not the shortest serving Home Secretary - technically beaten by the 1st Duke of Wellington who managed exactly 1 month?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    The Conservative party is very publically and very fatally disintegrating. They need to put in place a team under Hunt, Mordaunt or Sunak by the weekend

    Farage already calling it a Hunt led Remainer Globalist coup

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1582758463322873857?s=20&t=AyW4L4lLYXSvO54EX5g0Cw
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    MaxPB said:

    Shapps seems like a poor appointment, I'm surprised they didn't go for Priti Patel.

    You begin to wonder when Larry the Cat gets a seat in Cabinet.
    Yes. The claws are out!

    Sadly, NOT the clowns . . . yet . . .
    Take it Dylan the dog went with the Johnson's?
  • So was Suella
    (a) sacked by Truss
    (b) sacked by Hunt
    (c) flounced because her "Yoghurt-Knitting Tofu-Eating Wokerati" comments were see as piss funny for a student but not something that one of the great officers of state would say

    (a) Truss probably. Truss wants more immigrants to replace British idlers, whereas Suella wants to send everyone to Rwanda.
    I have a solution
    1. Send everyone to Rwanda. Suella can flip the bird at them for the Daily Mail cameraman.
    2. In Rwanda transfer their documents to the points based migration people. Stamp them in
    3. Fly the plane back to a different UK airport to welcome them to Britain

    Best value for the British taxpayer
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724

    Noa Hoffman
    @hoffman_noa
    ·
    7m
    Understand Suella was due to make a major announcement about slashing student visa numbers tomorrow
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,039
    Roger said:

    Braverman going is the first sensible thing Truss has ever done.

    You think Truss should have supported Putin?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Fuckin' hell. It's a shitshow. Would Labour just lay down a VoNC already?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    dixiedean said:

    Sam Coates reporting that Braverman has gone for two reasons, one of which is because she shared secure information on a private phone.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1582759424296620032

    The other being she's borderline certifiable.
    The second is because she is clearly suffering from terminally online brain and confusing the House of Commons for Twitter.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    HYUFD said:

    The Conservative party is very publically and very fatally disintegrating. They need to put in place a team under Hunt, Mordaunt or Sunak by the weekend

    Farage already calling it a Hunt led Remainer Globalist coup

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1582758463322873857?s=20&t=AyW4L4lLYXSvO54EX5g0Cw
    Kilroy Silk's Veritas would even be a better option than this shower
    Natural Law in the Blue Wall, Veritas in the Red
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    The Government is literally falling apart.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Honest mistake or not if you’re HS you know the rules . Regardless Braverman is a disgusting vile odious stain on humanity with zero empathy .
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668

    Sam Coates reporting that Braverman has gone for two reasons, one of which is because she shared secure information on a private phone.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1582759424296620032

    Hmmm.

    It could be that there is something coming that the government really really doesn't want to get out.
    Or a stitch up.

    I'm not sure which to believe any more.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Government of Theseus. Gonna slowly replace all of Truss's appointees until only Truss herself is left.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited October 2022

    MaxPB said:

    Shapps seems like a poor appointment, I'm surprised they didn't go for Priti Patel.

    You begin to wonder when Larry the Cat gets a seat in Cabinet.
    Shapps is a f*cking clown. Better than Cruella but that’s a low bar…

    Can Larry form a government with his mates? It will be better than this Tory filth…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Still, no need to worry


    “It now seems likely Putin will detonate some sort of nuclear device in or around Ukraine. That will precipitate the biggest global crisis since Cuba. This morning ministers and Tory MPs are saying the only person they can find to lead us through that crisis is Liz Truss.”

    https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1582627095486038016?s=46&t=1KENNfcwOvbWPl8-mRg2Ew

    I love how everyone treats Hodges saying Brady has zillions of letters in as gospel but they'll poo poo this.
    Reading between the lines “Russia drops a tactical nuke” now seems as likely as not

    There is no other way Putin can win. If his army is not capable of a second invasion from Belarus, he is out of options
    It is also not a way he can win.

    It's not impossible that he is mad enough to resort to a nuclear weapon, but it's certainly not 'as likely as not'.
    This from @ozymandias seems the best explanation for recent events


    “None. It's an opinion same as any other opinion about "what may happen" on this site. It does seem odd Wallace jetting off (and there are plenty of other ways of avoiding a commons vote), something obviously happened when Truss did her disappearing act (alternative being she was strapped down and given a heavy dose of Ketamine).

    Putin wouldn't go straight in with a full nuclear attack as that loses him his leverage. Nukes are tools of leverage. So the obvious path would be a detonation under the guise of an "exercise" to prove he's not mucking about. Informing the US would be a necessary step to avoid any misunderstanding.”

    It’s not nice. But that adds up
    I've been saying for a couple of weeks now that Putin escalates this by conducting some kind of nuclear test on his own soil. In one fell swoop, the markets will nosedive, precipitating a financial crisis in the west. Not to mention the total hysteria it will cause - a run on loo roll, baked beans, etc. He can and will inflict significant economic damage on the west in a way we can't do anything about.

    This is almost inevitably the next escalation. The only question is where it goes from there.

    (Sound of ominous blue teletype on a black screen, a la Threads)
    Yes. That’s my thinking

    People seem to think a tactical nuke will be just a miliitary/political problem

    It will by itself cause economic chaos across the world. Markets will explode with anxiety in every way

    People will flee cities etc

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited October 2022
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    But it's not a hypothecated tax now, it's just a tax like any other. You're proposing to increase taxes on the working poor so you can keep your inheritance. Do you not see how immoral that is, as a church going person I think your reverend would have words with you. Impoverishing those without so you can enrich yourself with your parents wealth one day is morally wrong.

    Well it should be a hypothecation insurance/tax as it was set up to be.

    It was not the working poor who Sunak raised National insurance on to fund social care but higher earners, indeed the very poor don't pay National insurance at all.

    Proper Tories, including High Tory Anglicans would support preservation of inherited wealth. Don't you try lecturing me on what is morally wrong just because proper Tory values are not you libertarian agenda, tough!!!!
    It has nothing to do with libertarians or Tories. It is a straight moral issue. You want people poorer than your parents to fund their care through their taxes so you can inherit their wealth. That is a clear moral issue regardless of politics and I think Max is right in what your vicar might think
    It has everything to do with libertarians or Tories.

    Both you and Max are classical liberals, more in common with each other than traditional Tories.

    Scrapping the £86k cap hits average homeowners or less with £200k to £400k homes especially hard as most of their estate goes in care costs.

    The biggest rise in NI by Sunak by far was for those earning over £100k, lower earners even saw a slight NI cut.

    So don't give me this crap about NI hitting the poor most while the social care cap only protects the rich!!!
    That is the 2nd time now you have accused me of saying 'poor' when I actually said 'poorer' The words have very different meanings. Try reading what I say.

    You want people POORER (not the poor) than your parents to fund their care through their taxes so you can inherit their wealth.
    No I don't, the biggest increase in NI was for those earning over £100k who are certainly not poorer than my parents, anyone earning average income of £35k or less had no NI rise.

    You by contrast want average home owners with properties of £200k to £400k to lose most of their property value in care costs by scrapping the £86k care cap
    You are dissembling by picking on the recent changes.

    You want people who pay tax and NI say who earn, £20,000, or £30,000 or £50,000 and have mortgages on a small house to contribute to your parents care costs so that you can inherit their wealth.

    That is people who I am guessing are actually POORER than your parents.

    That is correct isn't it?

    Also I don't want people to lose their properties at all. I have never said that.
    No I don't. As I said Sunak did NOT increase NI on anyone earning under £35k a year, only on higher earners, especially earning over £100k.

    You however want to force average home owners owning homes worth just £200 to £300k to lose most of their property value by selling it to pay for care costs. You want to take peoples' properties by scrapping the £86k cap!!!
  • If only somebody had warned that Liz Truss as PM would be a shitshow.

    If only somebody had advised she would be ousted by conference 2023.
  • Leon said:

    We’re being filmed


    Daaaaarling I hadn't realised the Flint Knappers Gazette had sent you over with a film crew. You're like Alan Whicker with bigger dildos.
  • dixiedean said:

    Sam Coates reporting that Braverman has gone for two reasons, one of which is because she shared secure information on a private phone.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1582759424296620032

    The other being she's borderline certifiable.
    Borderline?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    1m
    Suella Braverman was sacked: PM was advised that the ministerial code had been breached
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    This is getting so difficult to keep up with.

    In fact I must confess - this is embarrassing I know - that I had been thinking Floella Benjamin was Home Secretary.

    It just all seemed to fit in somehow.
    image
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Leon said:

    Who really gives a flying fuck about fracking right now? We are inches from Apocalypse

    “If Russia faces destruction of their army and utter defeat by NATO, they will use nukes, then NATO will respond with nukes and civilization is over”

    “But, hey, look on the bright side! At least Russia doesn’t get Crimea in that scenario, so you can be comforted by that thought, while watching the mushroom clouds rise.”

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1581999825339699201?s=46&t=1bJFP8rvix7V_P6lYoE7pA

    Didn't you say "Apocalypse" last week?
    That was Apocalypse Then.
    This is Now.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    The political journalists must be thinking all their Christmases have come over and over again this year. It just doesn't let up.

    I wonder who agrees to join the Cabinet now?
  • Has Leondarmus recently given his thoughts on Truss?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724

    Leon said:

    We’re being filmed


    Daaaaarling I hadn't realised the Flint Knappers Gazette had sent you over with a film crew. You're like Alan Whicker with bigger dildos.
    Is it a livestream?

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    If it's true that she's getting rid of all the c*nts in her Cabinet in the hope of not repulsing the public the good news is she's only got 20 more to go.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    HYUFD said:

    The Conservative party is very publically and very fatally disintegrating. They need to put in place a team under Hunt, Mordaunt or Sunak by the weekend

    Farage already calling it a Hunt led Remainer Globalist coup

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1582758463322873857?s=20&t=AyW4L4lLYXSvO54EX5g0Cw
    Never attribute to malice what might be otherwise explained by incompetence.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    But it's not a hypothecated tax now, it's just a tax like any other. You're proposing to increase taxes on the working poor so you can keep your inheritance. Do you not see how immoral that is, as a church going person I think your reverend would have words with you. Impoverishing those without so you can enrich yourself with your parents wealth one day is morally wrong.

    Well it should be a hypothecation insurance/tax as it was set up to be.

    It was not the working poor who Sunak raised National insurance on to fund social care but higher earners, indeed the very poor don't pay National insurance at all.

    Proper Tories, including High Tory Anglicans would support preservation of inherited wealth. Don't you try lecturing me on what is morally wrong just because proper Tory values are not you libertarian agenda, tough!!!!
    It has nothing to do with libertarians or Tories. It is a straight moral issue. You want people poorer than your parents to fund their care through their taxes so you can inherit their wealth. That is a clear moral issue regardless of politics and I think Max is right in what your vicar might think
    It has everything to do with libertarians or Tories.

    Both you and Max are classical liberals, more in common with each other than traditional Tories.

    Scrapping the £86k cap hits average homeowners or less with £200k to £400k homes especially hard as most of their estate goes in care costs.

    The biggest rise in NI by Sunak by far was for those earning over £100k, lower earners even saw a slight NI cut.

    So don't give me this crap about NI hitting the poor most while the social care cap only protects the rich!!!
    That is the 2nd time now you have accused me of saying 'poor' when I actually said 'poorer' The words have very different meanings. Try reading what I say.

    You want people POORER (not the poor) than your parents to fund their care through their taxes so you can inherit their wealth.
    No I don't, the biggest increase in NI was for those earning over £100k who are certainly not poorer than my parents, anyone earning average income of £35k or less had no NI rise.

    You by contrast want average home owners with properties of £200k to £400k to lose most of their property value in care costs by scrapping the £86k care cap
    You are dissembling by picking on the recent changes.

    You want people who pay tax and NI say who earn, £20,000, or £30,000 or £50,000 and have mortgages on a small house to contribute to your parents care costs so that you can inherit their wealth.

    That is people who I am guessing are actually POORER than your parents.

    That is correct isn't it?

    Also I don't want people to lose their properties at all. I have never said that.
    No I don't. As I said Sunak did NOT increase NI on anyone earning under £35k a year, only on higher earners, especially earning over £100k.

    You however want to force average home owners owning homes worth just £200 to £300k to lose most of their property value by selling it to pay for care costs. You want to take peoples' properties by scrapping the £86k cap!!!
    If they are going into care what use do they have of it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724

    If only somebody had warned that Liz Truss as PM would be a shitshow.

    If only somebody had advised she would be ousted by conference 2023.

    You mean "somebody" like 98% of the posters on this blog? That "somebody"??

  • dixiedean said:

    Sam Coates reporting that Braverman has gone for two reasons, one of which is because she shared secure information on a private phone.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1582759424296620032

    The other being she's borderline certifiable.
    Borderline?
    Her attitude to the lines of national borders (nobody should cross them at all) is certifiable, if popular.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Who really gives a flying fuck about fracking right now? We are inches from Apocalypse

    “If Russia faces destruction of their army and utter defeat by NATO, they will use nukes, then NATO will respond with nukes and civilization is over”

    “But, hey, look on the bright side! At least Russia doesn’t get Crimea in that scenario, so you can be comforted by that thought, while watching the mushroom clouds rise.”

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1581999825339699201?s=46&t=1bJFP8rvix7V_P6lYoE7pA

    How does he know? He is just some tech billionaire airing his opinions on twitter.

    Given that he has been accused of talking directly to Putin I am guessing he is better informed than most

    Of course this makes him a “fucking appeaser” etc etc

    Well he has been regurgitating Putin’s talking points in some detail.
    But that just makes him a bit silly.

  • Noa Hoffman
    @hoffman_noa
    ·
    7m
    Understand Suella was due to make a major announcement about slashing student visa numbers tomorrow

    For a while I have satirised the parochial bigotry of a section of the Tory/Brexit right who simply do not like the forrin. "Its too simplistic" etc. And yet here we are.

    Many of our universities are only financially viable with the mega £ that comes from students from China and similar. Yet Suella wanted to stop them coming here...
  • Sam Coates reporting that Braverman has gone for two reasons, one of which is because she shared secure information on a private phone.

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1582759424296620032

    Hmmm.

    It could be that there is something coming that the government really really doesn't want to get out.
    Or a stitch up.

    I'm not sure which to believe any more.
    I wonder if this is related to the reason that Truss couldn't attend the Commons yesterday? Mordaunt kept claiming there was a genuine reason, but nobody seemed to believe that. Wonder if this security-related sacking is related or pure coincidence?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Still, no need to worry


    “It now seems likely Putin will detonate some sort of nuclear device in or around Ukraine. That will precipitate the biggest global crisis since Cuba. This morning ministers and Tory MPs are saying the only person they can find to lead us through that crisis is Liz Truss.”

    https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1582627095486038016?s=46&t=1KENNfcwOvbWPl8-mRg2Ew

    I love how everyone treats Hodges saying Brady has zillions of letters in as gospel but they'll poo poo this.
    Reading between the lines “Russia drops a tactical nuke” now seems as likely as not

    There is no other way Putin can win. If his army is not capable of a second invasion from Belarus, he is out of options
    It is also not a way he can win.

    It's not impossible that he is mad enough to resort to a nuclear weapon, but it's certainly not 'as likely as not'.
    This from @ozymandias seems the best explanation for recent events


    “None. It's an opinion same as any other opinion about "what may happen" on this site. It does seem odd Wallace jetting off (and there are plenty of other ways of avoiding a commons vote), something obviously happened when Truss did her disappearing act (alternative being she was strapped down and given a heavy dose of Ketamine).

    Putin wouldn't go straight in with a full nuclear attack as that loses him his leverage. Nukes are tools of leverage. So the obvious path would be a detonation under the guise of an "exercise" to prove he's not mucking about. Informing the US would be a necessary step to avoid any misunderstanding.”

    It’s not nice. But that adds up
    I've been saying for a couple of weeks now that Putin escalates this by conducting some kind of nuclear test on his own soil. In one fell swoop, the markets will nosedive, precipitating a financial crisis in the west. Not to mention the total hysteria it will cause - a run on loo roll, baked beans, etc. He can and will inflict significant economic damage on the west in a way we can't do anything about.

    This is almost inevitably the next escalation. The only question is where it goes from there.

    (Sound of ominous blue teletype on a black screen, a la Threads)
    Yes. That’s my thinking

    People seem to think a tactical nuke will be just a miliitary/political problem

    It will by itself cause economic chaos across the world. Markets will explode with anxiety in every way

    People will flee cities etc

    sounds like you already have.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    Alistair said:

    Government of Theseus. Gonna slowly replace all of Truss's appointees until only Truss herself is left.

    The whole broom has been replaced, but somehow we're still left with Trigger.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Still, no need to worry


    “It now seems likely Putin will detonate some sort of nuclear device in or around Ukraine. That will precipitate the biggest global crisis since Cuba. This morning ministers and Tory MPs are saying the only person they can find to lead us through that crisis is Liz Truss.”

    https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1582627095486038016?s=46&t=1KENNfcwOvbWPl8-mRg2Ew

    I love how everyone treats Hodges saying Brady has zillions of letters in as gospel but they'll poo poo this.
    Reading between the lines “Russia drops a tactical nuke” now seems as likely as not

    There is no other way Putin can win. If his army is not capable of a second invasion from Belarus, he is out of options
    It is also not a way he can win.

    It's not impossible that he is mad enough to resort to a nuclear weapon, but it's certainly not 'as likely as not'.
    This from @ozymandias seems the best explanation for recent events


    “None. It's an opinion same as any other opinion about "what may happen" on this site. It does seem odd Wallace jetting off (and there are plenty of other ways of avoiding a commons vote), something obviously happened when Truss did her disappearing act (alternative being she was strapped down and given a heavy dose of Ketamine).

    Putin wouldn't go straight in with a full nuclear attack as that loses him his leverage. Nukes are tools of leverage. So the obvious path would be a detonation under the guise of an "exercise" to prove he's not mucking about. Informing the US would be a necessary step to avoid any misunderstanding.”

    It’s not nice. But that adds up
    I've been saying for a couple of weeks now that Putin escalates this by conducting some kind of nuclear test on his own soil. In one fell swoop, the markets will nosedive, precipitating a financial crisis in the west. Not to mention the total hysteria it will cause - a run on loo roll, baked beans, etc. He can and will inflict significant economic damage on the west in a way we can't do anything about.

    This is almost inevitably the next escalation. The only question is where it goes from there.

    (Sound of ominous blue teletype on a black screen, a la Threads)
    And tears up the test ban treaty. And probably puts the NPT up for grabs.

    China will love that…
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Had my head down working this afternoon... blink and minsters gone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’ve just discovered my train has unlimited free booze. This could get ugly

    Why, is someone fighting you for it ?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Alistair said:

    Quick check of Wiki suggests she is not the shortest serving Home Secretary - technically beaten by the 1st Duke of Wellington who managed exactly 1 month?

    And then he was given the boot?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Still, no need to worry


    “It now seems likely Putin will detonate some sort of nuclear device in or around Ukraine. That will precipitate the biggest global crisis since Cuba. This morning ministers and Tory MPs are saying the only person they can find to lead us through that crisis is Liz Truss.”

    https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1582627095486038016?s=46&t=1KENNfcwOvbWPl8-mRg2Ew

    I love how everyone treats Hodges saying Brady has zillions of letters in as gospel but they'll poo poo this.
    Reading between the lines “Russia drops a tactical nuke” now seems as likely as not

    There is no other way Putin can win. If his army is not capable of a second invasion from Belarus, he is out of options
    It is also not a way he can win.

    It's not impossible that he is mad enough to resort to a nuclear weapon, but it's certainly not 'as likely as not'.
    This from @ozymandias seems the best explanation for recent events


    “None. It's an opinion same as any other opinion about "what may happen" on this site. It does seem odd Wallace jetting off (and there are plenty of other ways of avoiding a commons vote), something obviously happened when Truss did her disappearing act (alternative being she was strapped down and given a heavy dose of Ketamine).

    Putin wouldn't go straight in with a full nuclear attack as that loses him his leverage. Nukes are tools of leverage. So the obvious path would be a detonation under the guise of an "exercise" to prove he's not mucking about. Informing the US would be a necessary step to avoid any misunderstanding.”

    It’s not nice. But that adds up
    I've been saying for a couple of weeks now that Putin escalates this by conducting some kind of nuclear test on his own soil. In one fell swoop, the markets will nosedive, precipitating a financial crisis in the west. Not to mention the total hysteria it will cause - a run on loo roll, baked beans, etc. He can and will inflict significant economic damage on the west in a way we can't do anything about.

    This is almost inevitably the next escalation. The only question is where it goes from there.

    (Sound of ominous blue teletype on a black screen, a la Threads)
    Yes. That’s my thinking

    People seem to think a tactical nuke will be just a miliitary/political problem

    It will by itself cause economic chaos across the world. Markets will explode with anxiety in every way

    People will flee cities etc

    Cities would not be targets of course, he would need to take out infrastructure, industry and military. City damage, London, NYC and Washington etc aside will be due to proximity to countermeasure targets. Not enough nukes and too much dsstruction from phase one to move on to countervalue strikes
  • kyf_100 said:

    Alistair said:

    Government of Theseus. Gonna slowly replace all of Truss's appointees until only Truss herself is left.

    The whole broom has been replaced, but somehow we're still left with Trigger.
    Alright, Dave?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Email on a private phone why she has had to go.

    Suella Braverman is Hillary Clinton and I claim $5

    Donald Trump, surely? After all, he faced consequences for breaking the same law that Clinton did, who didn't...
  • Email on a private phone why she has had to go.

    Suella Braverman is Hillary Clinton and I claim $5

    $5.50 after todays news surely?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Chris said:

    This is getting so difficult to keep up with.

    In fact I must confess - this is embarrassing I know - that I had been thinking Floella Benjamin was Home Secretary.

    It just all seemed to fit in somehow.
    image

    Floella would be bloody ace.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Point people are missing. Liz Truss clearly believed she can sack the Home Secretary less than a week after sacking her Chancellor, and carry on. Anyone who continues to argue she can stay in office has completely taken leave of their senses.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1582761620128034816
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’ve just discovered my train has unlimited free booze. This could get ugly




    Put the phone down....repeat the phone down...
    Fret not. There is no wifi and the signal goes down when we hit the deserts and the Rockies

    You will be spared my running commentary on the Endtimes
    By the time you’re back in civilisation, it might no longer exist.
    Ponder that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Point people are missing. Liz Truss clearly believed she can sack the Home Secretary less than a week after sacking her Chancellor, and carry on. Anyone who continues to argue she can stay in office has completely taken leave of their senses.

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Still, no need to worry


    “It now seems likely Putin will detonate some sort of nuclear device in or around Ukraine. That will precipitate the biggest global crisis since Cuba. This morning ministers and Tory MPs are saying the only person they can find to lead us through that crisis is Liz Truss.”

    https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1582627095486038016?s=46&t=1KENNfcwOvbWPl8-mRg2Ew

    I love how everyone treats Hodges saying Brady has zillions of letters in as gospel but they'll poo poo this.
    Reading between the lines “Russia drops a tactical nuke” now seems as likely as not

    There is no other way Putin can win. If his army is not capable of a second invasion from Belarus, he is out of options
    It is also not a way he can win.

    It's not impossible that he is mad enough to resort to a nuclear weapon, but it's certainly not 'as likely as not'.
    This from @ozymandias seems the best explanation for recent events


    “None. It's an opinion same as any other opinion about "what may happen" on this site. It does seem odd Wallace jetting off (and there are plenty of other ways of avoiding a commons vote), something obviously happened when Truss did her disappearing act (alternative being she was strapped down and given a heavy dose of Ketamine).

    Putin wouldn't go straight in with a full nuclear attack as that loses him his leverage. Nukes are tools of leverage. So the obvious path would be a detonation under the guise of an "exercise" to prove he's not mucking about. Informing the US would be a necessary step to avoid any misunderstanding.”

    It’s not nice. But that adds up
    I've been saying for a couple of weeks now that Putin escalates this by conducting some kind of nuclear test on his own soil. In one fell swoop, the markets will nosedive, precipitating a financial crisis in the west. Not to mention the total hysteria it will cause - a run on loo roll, baked beans, etc. He can and will inflict significant economic damage on the west in a way we can't do anything about.

    This is almost inevitably the next escalation. The only question is where it goes from there.

    (Sound of ominous blue teletype on a black screen, a la Threads)
    Yes. That’s my thinking

    People seem to think a tactical nuke will be just a miliitary/political problem

    It will by itself cause economic chaos across the world. Markets will explode with anxiety in every way

    People will flee cities etc

    etc
This discussion has been closed.