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New R&W poll: Just 19% support local fracking – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Who really gives a flying fuck about fracking right now? We are inches from Apocalypse

    “If Russia faces destruction of their army and utter defeat by NATO, they will use nukes, then NATO will respond with nukes and civilization is over”

    “But, hey, look on the bright side! At least Russia doesn’t get Crimea in that scenario, so you can be comforted by that thought, while watching the mushroom clouds rise.”

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1581999825339699201?s=46&t=1bJFP8rvix7V_P6lYoE7pA

    How does he know? He is just some tech billionaire airing his opinions on twitter.



    Given that he has been accused of talking directly to Putin I am guessing he is better informed than most

    Of course this makes him a “fucking appeaser” etc etc

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Spoke to a Conservative MP this week who said they would struggle to back Truss if it came to a confidence vote in the Commons… 👀

    Think maybe Number 10 underestimating how mentally checked out some Tory MPs are - some resigned to losing their seats, they feel like they’ve got nothing to lose. So threat of whip withdrawal not as powerful as it once was.


    https://twitter.com/wizbates/status/1582749028315717632
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    I think it's clear from Musk's tweets that Starlink has basically been commandeered by the Pentagon and there's nothing he can do about it if he wants to keep launching rockets in the USA ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723
    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    ·
    37m
    As said earlier, there's talk that the threshold for nominations to be leader be lifted to 100 MPs, even third of party (c120) in order to try to force through a unity candidate. Who in shot of that - right now MPs saying Sunak/Hunt/Mordaunt
  • Leon said:

    Who really gives a flying fuck about fracking right now? We are inches from Apocalypse

    “If Russia faces destruction of their army and utter defeat by NATO, they will use nukes, then NATO will respond with nukes and civilization is over”

    “But, hey, look on the bright side! At least Russia doesn’t get Crimea in that scenario, so you can be comforted by that thought, while watching the mushroom clouds rise.”

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1581999825339699201?s=46&t=1bJFP8rvix7V_P6lYoE7pA

    Does Elon Musk know that Nato per se is not involved?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Starmer's rating of 48%, an 11pt rise from last month, is his highest ever figure (previous high 41%, July 2022), and Truss' score of 20% is a drop of 15pts since September and lower than Boris Johnson ever achieved (previous low for a Conservative leader 26%, July 2022). https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1582749293013700608/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Most Conservative party members say Jeremy Hunt was right to cancel most of the tax cuts from the mini-Budget

    Right decision: 57%
    Wrong decision: 36%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/19/conservative-members-say-cancelling-kwartengs-tax- https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1582749137669222406/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    BoE deputy governor says the Bank was given no briefing/forewarning on the contents of Kwarteng's mini-budget before it was announced
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    U
    Leon said:

    Who really gives a flying fuck about fracking right now? We are inches from Apocalypse

    “If Russia faces destruction of their army and utter defeat by NATO, they will use nukes, then NATO will respond with nukes and civilization is over”

    “But, hey, look on the bright side! At least Russia doesn’t get Crimea in that scenario, so you can be comforted by that thought, while watching the mushroom clouds rise.”

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1581999825339699201?s=46&t=1bJFP8rvix7V_P6lYoE7pA

    We’re too busy watching Liz Truss surprise on the upside to worry about the twitterings of a tech bro stoner (even an astronomically rich one) with his tongue further up Putin’s arse than even you.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    But it's not a hypothecated tax now, it's just a tax like any other. You're proposing to increase taxes on the working poor so you can keep your inheritance. Do you not see how immoral that is, as a church going person I think your reverend would have words with you. Impoverishing those without so you can enrich yourself with your parents wealth one day is morally wrong.

    Well it should be a hypothecation insurance/tax as it was set up to be.

    It was not the working poor who Sunak raised National insurance on to fund social care but higher earners, indeed the very poor don't pay National insurance at all.

    Proper Tories, including High Tory Anglicans would support preservation of inherited wealth. Don't you try lecturing me on what is morally wrong just because proper Tory values are not you libertarian agenda, tough!!!!
    But it's not and hasn't been for decades.

    They may support preservation of inherited wealth, yet do they support it at the expense of the working poor? Should someone earning £15k face higher taxes so you can "preserve your wealth" I'd suggest that your local vicar may have a different answer to what you expect. Having sat through seven years of weekly sermons at school I'm pretty sure the school chaplain would be firmly opposed to making poor people pay for your wealth preservation.
    Yes it has, the Tory core vote almost all supports preservation of assets.

    No it is not the working poor either, anyone earning under £35k actually if anything saw a fractional NI cut by Sunak. It was higher earners like you who saw the biggest rise in NI to pay for social care.

    So don't try and pretend you don't have any interest in ensuring NI is not increased for higher earners to fund social care!
    But that's been reversed, so we're starting from a base of any NI increase hitting people earning £12.57k or more.

    Even at the time I suggested it should be paid for by decreasing the additional rate threshold and adding 2p to the basic and higher rates. Ideally not at all and the state takes a charge on estate values.

    You want poor people to subsidise your inheritance. I don't.
    10% on all estates to pay for social care seems entirely sensible to me, but politicians always shoot it down in concert with the rightwing tabloids.

    No, just make NI payable on pension income. Hyfud wants it to be an insurance scheme again, well it can be an insurance for healthcare and social care for older people and healthcare and pensions for working age people. It's stupid but maybe he'll agree to it. I doubt it because NI on pension income would hurt his core voters.
    I don't oppose NI on pension income no in return for keeping the £86k care costs cap. Most state pensioners would not be much affected anyway
    I've got a good Tory policy idea for you: People's inheritances are being eroded by spending on necessities like food and heating, so there should be a cap, with any spending above a certain lifetime limit covered by the state. You could manage it by issuing everyone with a government credit card, and that way your inheritance will be safe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Still, no need to worry


    “It now seems likely Putin will detonate some sort of nuclear device in or around Ukraine. That will precipitate the biggest global crisis since Cuba. This morning ministers and Tory MPs are saying the only person they can find to lead us through that crisis is Liz Truss.”

    https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1582627095486038016?s=46&t=1KENNfcwOvbWPl8-mRg2Ew

    I love how everyone treats Hodges saying Brady has zillions of letters in as gospel but they'll poo poo this.
    Reading between the lines “Russia drops a tactical nuke” now seems as likely as not

    There is no other way Putin can win. If his army is not capable of a second invasion from Belarus, he is out of options
    Towards the end of the Second World, Hitler was in his bunker, moving around imaginary armies to defeat the invasion of the Fatherland.

    Putin isn't watching CNN, or looking at Oryx, he's hearing what his Generals tell him.

    And they're probably telling him that Yes, losses have been high, but they've been even worse for the Ukrainians. The current attack means that the last of the Ukrainian reserves will have been committed. And the Ukrainian spirit is close to broken with our targeted infrastructure attacks. With our 300,000 fresh soldiers and a broken and battered enemy, we just need one more push and Zelenskky will sue for peace.
    That’s exactly the end of Red Storm Rising. The Central Committee start telling themselves -

    - nukes will divide/panic NATO
    - our untrained reservists are a brilliant army just waiting to win
    - the other side must have taken even heavier casualties than us.
    I reread it about a year ago. It's a terrific book.

    Of course, he overestimated the abilties of the Soviet/Russian army. He thought it would take NATO to stop them, rather than a ragtag bunch of Ukrainians mostly using captured Russian kit.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Who really gives a flying fuck about fracking right now? We are inches from Apocalypse

    “If Russia faces destruction of their army and utter defeat by NATO, they will use nukes, then NATO will respond with nukes and civilization is over”

    “But, hey, look on the bright side! At least Russia doesn’t get Crimea in that scenario, so you can be comforted by that thought, while watching the mushroom clouds rise.”

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1581999825339699201?s=46&t=1bJFP8rvix7V_P6lYoE7pA

    How does he know? He is just some tech billionaire airing his opinions on twitter.



    Given that he has been accused of talking directly to Putin I am guessing he is better informed than most

    Of course this makes him a “fucking appeaser” etc etc

    So Putin told him on the phone that he is not bluffing.

    He's already said that on live TV.

    US intel to date says no nukes have been moved from any of their storage areas.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Scott_xP said:

    Spoke to a Conservative MP this week who said they would struggle to back Truss if it came to a confidence vote in the Commons… 👀

    Think maybe Number 10 underestimating how mentally checked out some Tory MPs are - some resigned to losing their seats, they feel like they’ve got nothing to lose. So threat of whip withdrawal not as powerful as it once was.


    https://twitter.com/wizbates/status/1582749028315717632

    You aren't going to lose much by abstaining tonight - you've probably lost your seat at the next election but the opposition may welcome you.

    And if enough MPs abstain then it's not really possible for Truss to throw 100+ MPs out of the party..
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Who really gives a flying fuck about fracking right now? We are inches from Apocalypse

    “If Russia faces destruction of their army and utter defeat by NATO, they will use nukes, then NATO will respond with nukes and civilization is over”

    “But, hey, look on the bright side! At least Russia doesn’t get Crimea in that scenario, so you can be comforted by that thought, while watching the mushroom clouds rise.”

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1581999825339699201?s=46&t=1bJFP8rvix7V_P6lYoE7pA

    Elon is such a fucking pussy.

    What he's saying, and let's be very clear about this, is:

    We should submit to nuclear blackmail

    Because that's what this is. And if we submit this time, what are you going to say if China says "Taiwan is ours. We would regard any help to the regime there as an attack on us, and would respond with nuclear weapons."

    And - fwiw - everyone would now need nuclear weapons. Because the only way to avoid nuclear blackmail is to have your own nukes.

    If you really think that submitting to nuclear blackmail leads to a safer world, then you are genuinely retarded.
    Sometimes I think Elon thinks he is Leon (and not just with a typo spelling his own name), someone who can make these brash, sweeping calls, knowing some days he will be right and those days he is wrong, well, nothing happens. Except Elon does have an audience and consequences do follow.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Must admit I got confused when @Leon was quoting Elon - I thought those were his original thoughts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    But it's not a hypothecated tax now, it's just a tax like any other. You're proposing to increase taxes on the working poor so you can keep your inheritance. Do you not see how immoral that is, as a church going person I think your reverend would have words with you. Impoverishing those without so you can enrich yourself with your parents wealth one day is morally wrong.

    Well it should be a hypothecation insurance/tax as it was set up to be.

    It was not the working poor who Sunak raised National insurance on to fund social care but higher earners, indeed the very poor don't pay National insurance at all.

    Proper Tories, including High Tory Anglicans would support preservation of inherited wealth. Don't you try lecturing me on what is morally wrong just because proper Tory values are not you libertarian agenda, tough!!!!
    But it's not and hasn't been for decades.

    They may support preservation of inherited wealth, yet do they support it at the expense of the working poor? Should someone earning £15k face higher taxes so you can "preserve your wealth" I'd suggest that your local vicar may have a different answer to what you expect. Having sat through seven years of weekly sermons at school I'm pretty sure the school chaplain would be firmly opposed to making poor people pay for your wealth preservation.
    Yes it has, the Tory core vote almost all supports preservation of assets.

    No it is not the working poor either, anyone earning under £35k actually if anything saw a fractional NI cut by Sunak. It was higher earners like you who saw the biggest rise in NI to pay for social care.

    So don't try and pretend you don't have any interest in ensuring NI is not increased for higher earners to fund social care!
    But that's been reversed, so we're starting from a base of any NI increase hitting people earning £12.57k or more.

    Even at the time I suggested it should be paid for by decreasing the additional rate threshold and adding 2p to the basic and higher rates. Ideally not at all and the state takes a charge on estate values.

    You want poor people to subsidise your inheritance. I don't.
    10% on all estates to pay for social care seems entirely sensible to me, but politicians always shoot it down in concert with the rightwing tabloids.

    No, just make NI payable on pension income. Hyfud wants it to be an insurance scheme again, well it can be an insurance for healthcare and social care for older people and healthcare and pensions for working age people. It's stupid but maybe he'll agree to it. I doubt it because NI on pension income would hurt his core voters.
    I don't oppose NI on pension income no in return for keeping the £86k care costs cap. Most state pensioners would not be much affected anyway
    I've got a good Tory policy idea for you: People's inheritances are being eroded by spending on necessities like food and heating, so there should be a cap, with any spending above a certain lifetime limit covered by the state. You could manage it by issuing everyone with a government credit card, and that way your inheritance will be safe.
    The government is already halfway there anyway with the energy price cap the government has introduced subsidising rising energy bills so consumers don't have to
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Still, no need to worry


    “It now seems likely Putin will detonate some sort of nuclear device in or around Ukraine. That will precipitate the biggest global crisis since Cuba. This morning ministers and Tory MPs are saying the only person they can find to lead us through that crisis is Liz Truss.”

    https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1582627095486038016?s=46&t=1KENNfcwOvbWPl8-mRg2Ew

    I love how everyone treats Hodges saying Brady has zillions of letters in as gospel but they'll poo poo this.
    Reading between the lines “Russia drops a tactical nuke” now seems as likely as not

    There is no other way Putin can win. If his army is not capable of a second invasion from Belarus, he is out of options
    It is also not a way he can win.

    It's not impossible that he is mad enough to resort to a nuclear weapon, but it's certainly not 'as likely as not'.
    This from @ozymandias seems the best explanation for recent events


    “None. It's an opinion same as any other opinion about "what may happen" on this site. It does seem odd Wallace jetting off (and there are plenty of other ways of avoiding a commons vote), something obviously happened when Truss did her disappearing act (alternative being she was strapped down and given a heavy dose of Ketamine).

    Putin wouldn't go straight in with a full nuclear attack as that loses him his leverage. Nukes are tools of leverage. So the obvious path would be a detonation under the guise of an "exercise" to prove he's not mucking about. Informing the US would be a necessary step to avoid any misunderstanding.”

    It’s not nice. But that adds up
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Pulpstar said:

    I think it's clear from Musk's tweets that Starlink has basically been commandeered by the Pentagon and there's nothing he can do about it if he wants to keep launching rockets in the USA ?

    I would imagine the Pentagon are already figuring out ways of separating Musk from SpaceX, they must be getting very concerned that the a company they are highly dependent on is run by a loony parroting Russian talking points.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    Scott_xP said:

    BoE deputy governor says the Bank was given no briefing/forewarning on the contents of Kwarteng's mini-budget before it was announced

    Assuming that's true, isn't that just grossly negligent and irresponsible?

    Kwarteng should be sacked. Oh.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    24m
    I'm sorry. I got it wrong, & helped inflict Truss upon you.
  • Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    ·
    37m
    As said earlier, there's talk that the threshold for nominations to be leader be lifted to 100 MPs, even third of party (c120) in order to try to force through a unity candidate. Who in shot of that - right now MPs saying Sunak/Hunt/Mordaunt

    I'm sure the members will love that and feel democratically enfranchised
  • Elon Musk is turning into an appeasing fuckwit.

    If you give into nuclear blackmail here, then why would or should Putin stop here? The future will be nothing other than nuclear blackmail.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    edited October 2022
    If anyone needs me during these last hours before Armageddon, I’m on this train heading from Denver to Moab






    I’d like to think this gives me a slender chance of survival but unfortunately the tracks go right past a major NORAD HQ
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Not sure we are done for fireworks for the afternoon

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1582751384725700608
  • @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723
    Scott_xP said:

    Most Conservative party members say Jeremy Hunt was right to cancel most of the tax cuts from the mini-Budget

    Right decision: 57%
    Wrong decision: 36%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/19/conservative-members-say-cancelling-kwartengs-tax- https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1582749137669222406/photo/1

    Madness. They literally voted for these tax cuts in August.

  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me during these last hours before Armageddon, I’m on this train heading from Denver to Moab






    I’d like to think this gives me a slender chance of survival but unfortunately the tracks go right past a major NORAD HQ

    Catch up with you in the afterlife then. Take care.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Most Conservative party members say Jeremy Hunt was right to cancel most of the tax cuts from the mini-Budget

    Right decision: 57%
    Wrong decision: 36%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/19/conservative-members-say-cancelling-kwartengs-tax- https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1582749137669222406/photo/1

    Madness. They literally voted for these tax cuts in August.

    No they literally did not.

    They voted for National Insurance, which has gone ahead.

    The 1p tax cut, the 45p tax cut etc were never part of the leadership debate. Instead Kwarteng took the policy Truss was already accused of not being able to afford and decided to add his own rabbits in on top.
  • Cruella?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Oh no, are we back to Armageddon? I was rather enjoying the fact that we’ve gone a few days without it.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Braverman gone!
  • @rcs1000

    Tactiacal voting would certainly reduce the number of Tory MPs, probably down to single figures.

    The LDs might just become the official Opposition, but more likely it would be the SNP. Ian Blackwood must be having wet dreams at the possibility, and it certainly is possible.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Scott_xP said:

    Most Conservative party members say Jeremy Hunt was right to cancel most of the tax cuts from the mini-Budget

    Right decision: 57%
    Wrong decision: 36%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/19/conservative-members-say-cancelling-kwartengs-tax- https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1582749137669222406/photo/1

    Madness. They literally voted for these tax cuts in August.

    No they literally did not.

    They voted for National Insurance, which has gone ahead.

    The 1p tax cut, the 45p tax cut etc were never part of the leadership debate. Instead Kwarteng took the policy Truss was already accused of not being able to afford and decided to add his own rabbits in on top.
    Um Kwarteng claims that the 45p tax cut came from Truss as did some of the other items. Remember revoking IR35 was a Truss campaign commitment
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Home Secretary leaving her job… that’s two great offices of state thrown into chaos since Liz Truss became PM. https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1582753580746174465
  • AlistairM said:

    Braverman gone!

    I didn't know he was batting. Was he caught or bowled?

    And who is he? New selection?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    NEW: Rumour the Home Secretary will be departing shortly - no10 sources insisting she has not been sacked. No response from Home Office
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Kyiv is the birthplace of the Rus. Difficult to do.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me during these last hours before Armageddon, I’m on this train heading from Denver to Moab






    I’d like to think this gives me a slender chance of survival but unfortunately the tracks go right past a major NORAD HQ

    Have you seen Under Siege 2?
  • Cruella gone

    'Clever'ly next?
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Most Conservative party members say Jeremy Hunt was right to cancel most of the tax cuts from the mini-Budget

    Right decision: 57%
    Wrong decision: 36%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/19/conservative-members-say-cancelling-kwartengs-tax- https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1582749137669222406/photo/1

    Madness. They literally voted for these tax cuts in August.

    No they literally did not.

    They voted for National Insurance, which has gone ahead.

    The 1p tax cut, the 45p tax cut etc were never part of the leadership debate. Instead Kwarteng took the policy Truss was already accused of not being able to afford and decided to add his own rabbits in on top.
    Um Kwarteng claims that the 45p tax cut came from Truss as did some of the other items. Remember revoking IR35 was a Truss campaign commitment
    The members voted for Truss, but they did not "literally" vote for the 45p tax cut in any figurative or literal way.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    eek said:


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    NEW: Rumour the Home Secretary will be departing shortly - no10 sources insisting she has not been sacked. No response from Home Office

    He is behind the curve. the tofu eating wokerati have done the deed
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    It seems to me that the standout figure from the R and W survey in the header is not the one about fracking.

    It's the figure of only 16% opposition to further North Sea oil and gas permits. It looks as if support for broadly environmentalist 'Stop Oil', net zero etc stuff is flaky and wafer thin in the extreme when push comes to shove, and autumn and the Russian army arrive.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Braverman’s out
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    Wtf is going on

    What is the lifespan of a UK gov minister at the mo
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Looks like Big Tofu has claimed another victim in @SuellaBraverman #Lizaster
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    2m
    Multiple sources now saying Suella is off and HAS been fired.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me during these last hours before Armageddon, I’m on this train heading from Denver to Moab






    I’d like to think this gives me a slender chance of survival but unfortunately the tracks go right past a major NORAD HQ

    Armageddon outta here!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Hearing Suella hasn't resigned, but has been sacked as Home Sec this afternoon

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/20162025/suella-braverman-sacked-as-home-secretary/
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Grant Shapps is new Home Secretary apparently.

    Was Braverman leaking? In any case surely makes Truss even more unpopular with a certain grouping of Tory MPs.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    @rcs1000

    Tactiacal voting would certainly reduce the number of Tory MPs, probably down to single figures.

    The LDs might just become the official Opposition, but more likely it would be the SNP. Ian Blackwood must be having wet dreams at the possibility, and it certainly is possible.

    How can the Scottish Nationalists be His Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    MaxPB said:

    Onshore wind, and lots of it, please. Get manufacturing and building those turbines asap, the state should demand a 90% UK and UK owned supply chain as well to boost domestic manufacturing capability.

    Offshore wind is far more efficient and can be scaled in a way that onshore can't. It also won't get stuck in planning for 20 years.

    Dogger Bank III, IV and V please.

    Not Lake District I, Cairngorms I or even North Pennines I.
    I think the crisis we are in justifies an approach of doing everything we can, as quickly as we can, rather than worrying about how to optimise it.

    So, in March earlier this year, we should have pushed the big red button on going ahead with more onshore and offshore wind, and fracking, and gas storage, and tidal, and North Sea oil and gas, and modular nukes, and anything else that was vaguely plausible. It's an emergency, so you have an emergency response.

    That then gives us the best chance of not experiencing an emergency several winters in a row, and once we're past the emergency stage we can see what has worked, what hasn't, where we want to trim, and what we want to reinforce.

    Instead, we've done everything very slowly (even the simple decision to reopen Rough took many months), and we've backed off from pursuing all the options available to us.

    Nothing would have made much of a difference for this winter (except perhaps Rough) but if we have problems next winter it will be because of this sluggish and half-hearted response.
    None of those things would be ready by next winter. In the timescale of actually building stuff, there will be no difference between building onshore and offshore wind, for instance.

    Unless you want to try building the nukes Soviet style. I wonder if we could rent some Zeks from China?
  • "You can't fire me, I quit!" - Braverman to Hunt.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me during these last hours before Armageddon, I’m on this train heading from Denver to Moab






    I’d like to think this gives me a slender chance of survival but unfortunately the tracks go right past a major NORAD HQ

    Catch up with you in the afterlife then. Take care.
    You must have done some pretty terrible things in your past if you're going to be hanging out with @Leon in the afterlife.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    MaxPB said:

    Onshore wind, and lots of it, please. Get manufacturing and building those turbines asap, the state should demand a 90% UK and UK owned supply chain as well to boost domestic manufacturing capability.

    Offshore wind is far more efficient and can be scaled in a way that onshore can't. It also won't get stuck in planning for 20 years.

    Dogger Bank III, IV and V please.

    Not Lake District I, Cairngorms I or even North Pennines I.
    Travelled back from Pembrokeshire on monday (itself well populated by wind turbines). In the distance a forest of turbines on the Black Mountains. People will have different opinions, but at least they are non-polluting sources of power, and tbh, not unattractive.

    Like keeping the football world cup on free to air TV, there must be some locations that are kept free of turbines, but for bog standard farmland in much of the country I don't see an issue.

    That said, I suspect (but don't know) that North Sea turbines are less likely to be completely lacking in wind. They are also bigger (I think) and we have the tech to keep building them.
    I agree, they aren't that bad in a bog standard farmed landscape. From our local NNR in the Flatlands you can see well over 100 of the things and they aren't _that_ bad.

    In the uplands it is slightly more difficult. They are visible for miles and if built on peat soil may not actually be reducing CO2 emissions. New roads are required in places where there really shouldn't be roads.

    The offshore ones can be bigger, don't need new roads, are easier to get heavy equipment to, allow bigger blades and perform an additional service of protecting the sea bed from trawling.

    The only issue is sea birds but I don't know what the latest research is on that.

    I do look forward to West Burton Fusion Power though!
    No way seabirds should be allowed to stop progress on this. I've had enough of U-Terns.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    AlistairM said:

    Braverman gone!

    LBW?
  • AlistairM said:

    Grant Shapps is new Home Secretary apparently.

    Was Braverman leaking? In any case surely makes Truss even more unpopular with a certain grouping of Tory MPs.

    Wow, this is a putsch. Truss is a figurehead.
  • AlistairM said:

    Braverman gone!

    Braverman gone?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Most Conservative party members say Jeremy Hunt was right to cancel most of the tax cuts from the mini-Budget

    Right decision: 57%
    Wrong decision: 36%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/19/conservative-members-say-cancelling-kwartengs-tax- https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1582749137669222406/photo/1

    Madness. They literally voted for these tax cuts in August.

    No they literally did not.

    They voted for National Insurance, which has gone ahead.

    The 1p tax cut, the 45p tax cut etc were never part of the leadership debate. Instead Kwarteng took the policy Truss was already accused of not being able to afford and decided to add his own rabbits in on top.
    Um Kwarteng claims that the 45p tax cut came from Truss as did some of the other items. Remember revoking IR35 was a Truss campaign commitment
    The members voted for Truss, but they did not "literally" vote for the 45p tax cut in any figurative or literal way.
    My point was that Kwarteng did add the 45p as his rabbit from the hat - it came from Truss.
  • rcs1000 said:

    AlistairM said:

    Braverman gone!

    LBW?
    Caught behind.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Scott_xP said:

    Home Secretary leaving her job… that’s two great offices of state thrown into chaos since Liz Truss became PM. https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1582753580746174465

    Braverman and Kwarteng were key Truss allies, if Shapps joins fellow Sunak supporter Hunt as their replacements Truss is just paving the way for her ultimate replacement by Rishi
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Cole hinting maybe more to come...
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Most Conservative party members say Jeremy Hunt was right to cancel most of the tax cuts from the mini-Budget

    Right decision: 57%
    Wrong decision: 36%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/19/conservative-members-say-cancelling-kwartengs-tax- https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1582749137669222406/photo/1

    Madness. They literally voted for these tax cuts in August.

    No they literally did not.

    They voted for National Insurance, which has gone ahead.

    The 1p tax cut, the 45p tax cut etc were never part of the leadership debate. Instead Kwarteng took the policy Truss was already accused of not being able to afford and decided to add his own rabbits in on top.
    Um Kwarteng claims that the 45p tax cut came from Truss as did some of the other items. Remember revoking IR35 was a Truss campaign commitment
    The members voted for Truss, but they did not "literally" vote for the 45p tax cut in any figurative or literal way.
    My point was that Kwarteng did add the 45p as his rabbit from the hat - it came from Truss.
    Whoever's hat it came from, it wasn't "literally" voted for by the members now, was it?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    Oh no, are we back to Armageddon? I was rather enjoying the fact that we’ve gone a few days without it.

    'If it were done when 'tis done....'
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    eek said:


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    2m
    Multiple sources now saying Suella is off and HAS been fired.

    Good decision, Jeremy.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    They've been trying to do that since February...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    Shapps seems like a poor appointment, I'm surprised they didn't go for Priti Patel.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    rcs1000 said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me during these last hours before Armageddon, I’m on this train heading from Denver to Moab






    I’d like to think this gives me a slender chance of survival but unfortunately the tracks go right past a major NORAD HQ

    Catch up with you in the afterlife then. Take care.
    You must have done some pretty terrible things in your past if you're going to be hanging out with @Leon in the afterlife.
    Yes. Ideally you’d hang out with me in THIS life

    My view right now




  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    As I understand it @SuellaBraverman has been asked to resign over an issue relating to “security”. Resignation letter soon. Being replaced by @grantshapps

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1582755650672525313
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    ·
    1m
    As I understand it
    @SuellaBraverman
    has been asked to resign over an issue relating to “security”. Resignation letter soon. Being replaced by
    @grantshapps
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Scott_xP said:

    Cole hinting maybe more to come...

    Is she toast yet?
  • Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
  • MaxPB said:

    Onshore wind, and lots of it, please. Get manufacturing and building those turbines asap, the state should demand a 90% UK and UK owned supply chain as well to boost domestic manufacturing capability.

    Offshore wind is far more efficient and can be scaled in a way that onshore can't. It also won't get stuck in planning for 20 years.

    Dogger Bank III, IV and V please.

    Not Lake District I, Cairngorms I or even North Pennines I.
    Travelled back from Pembrokeshire on monday (itself well populated by wind turbines). In the distance a forest of turbines on the Black Mountains. People will have different opinions, but at least they are non-polluting sources of power, and tbh, not unattractive.

    Like keeping the football world cup on free to air TV, there must be some locations that are kept free of turbines, but for bog standard farmland in much of the country I don't see an issue.

    That said, I suspect (but don't know) that North Sea turbines are less likely to be completely lacking in wind. They are also bigger (I think) and we have the tech to keep building them.
    I agree, they aren't that bad in a bog standard farmed landscape. From our local NNR in the Flatlands you can see well over 100 of the things and they aren't _that_ bad.

    In the uplands it is slightly more difficult. They are visible for miles and if built on peat soil may not actually be reducing CO2 emissions. New roads are required in places where there really shouldn't be roads.

    The offshore ones can be bigger, don't need new roads, are easier to get heavy equipment to, allow bigger blades and perform an additional service of protecting the sea bed from trawling.

    The only issue is sea birds but I don't know what the latest research is on that.

    I do look forward to West Burton Fusion Power though!
    No way seabirds should be allowed to stop progress on this. I've had enough of U-Terns.
    It's a petrel saving policy for sure.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Truss might have done one thing I can support . If she’s sacked Braverman then good riddance to the stain on humanity .
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Leon said:

    @SamRamani2
    Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov calls for Ukraine's government to be "wiped off the face of the earth"


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1582751743469027331

    Well if the Russians want that, then @Leon will insist we let them do that, afterall we can't stand in the way of their nukes now, can we?
    You are SUCH a humongous dork

    You are such a humongous drunk.

    And an appeasing fuckwit.

    I'll take being a dork.
    I’m a drunk dork and am happy to act as peacemaker if so asked.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Scott_xP said:

    As I understand it @SuellaBraverman has been asked to resign over an issue relating to “security”. Resignation letter soon. Being replaced by @grantshapps

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1582755650672525313

    Security isn't a dirty word, Blackadder.
  • MaxPB said:

    Shapps seems like a poor appointment, I'm surprised they didn't go for Priti Patel.

    Shapps seems like quite a statement. Wasn't he supposed to be the ringleader seeking to oust Truss, and now he's Home Secretary?
  • eek said:


    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    ·
    1m
    As I understand it
    @SuellaBraverman
    has been asked to resign over an issue relating to “security”. Resignation letter soon. Being replaced by
    @grantshapps

    Best news of the day but better if Truss goes
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    If anyone needs me during these last hours before Armageddon, I’m on this train heading from Denver to Moab






    I’d like to think this gives me a slender chance of survival but unfortunately the tracks go right past a major NORAD HQ

    Catch up with you in the afterlife then. Take care.
    We carry on with PB in the afterlife, but without @HYUFD, who will be the only one allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven. The rest of us will have to hope that @TSE will allow us to join him in Jannah.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    eek said:


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    2m
    Multiple sources now saying Suella is off and HAS been fired.

    Good decision, Jeremy.
    Appointing Grant Shapps though - that isn't a great decision.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Multiple sources told me this avo that Braverman was being sacked - with some claiming at behest of Jeremy Hunt who they said was now “pulling the strings".

    (No 10 sources still denying she was "sacked" - and Hunt's people denying responsibility 🤨)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/19/suella-braverman-departs-as-uk-home-secretary-liz-truss
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    OK. You know how I said that Truss was going to keep her head down, hope for a resolution in Ukraine, and would see her ratings (and Tory polling) recover somewhat.

    I was wrong.

    Sacking Braverman (an I am no Suella fan) weeks into the job is madness, and pretty much guarantees an imminent challenge.
  • Scott_xP said:

    As I understand it @SuellaBraverman has been asked to resign over an issue relating to “security”. Resignation letter soon. Being replaced by @grantshapps

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1582755650672525313

    Doesn't being Home Secretary require you to pass an elevated background / security check....going to take the spooks ages to wade through all his past aliases.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    The ERG will be begging Farage to front a vehicle.
    Unsustainable chaos
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    edited October 2022
    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    ·
    53s
    Just to be clear, the Tory right already telling me Braverman has been stitched up by Truss. This will make it much harder for Truss to survive.

    Is that another 40-50 extra letters heading to Mr Brady in the next hour?
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Home Secretary leaving her job… that’s two great offices of state thrown into chaos since Liz Truss became PM. https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1582753580746174465

    Braverman and Kwarteng were key Truss allies, if Shapps joins fellow Sunak supporter Hunt as their replacements Truss is just paving the way for her ultimate replacement by Rishi
    Braverman sacking is very good news
  • @rcs1000

    Tactiacal voting would certainly reduce the number of Tory MPs, probably down to single figures.

    The LDs might just become the official Opposition, but more likely it would be the SNP. Ian Blackwood must be having wet dreams at the possibility, and it certainly is possible.

    How can the Scottish Nationalists be His Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
    Please correct me if I'm mistaken, OKC, but they would be second largest Party in Westminster, ...so they automatically become the official Opposition.

    No?
  • Leon said:

    If anyone needs me during these last hours before Armageddon, I’m on this train heading from Denver to Moab






    I’d like to think this gives me a slender chance of survival but unfortunately the tracks go right past a major NORAD HQ

    Didn't you say "Armageddon" last week?
  • Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha etc
  • kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    But it's not a hypothecated tax now, it's just a tax like any other. You're proposing to increase taxes on the working poor so you can keep your inheritance. Do you not see how immoral that is, as a church going person I think your reverend would have words with you. Impoverishing those without so you can enrich yourself with your parents wealth one day is morally wrong.

    Well it should be a hypothecation insurance/tax as it was set up to be.

    It was not the working poor who Sunak raised National insurance on to fund social care but higher earners, indeed the very poor don't pay National insurance at all.

    Proper Tories, including High Tory Anglicans would support preservation of inherited wealth. Don't you try lecturing me on what is morally wrong just because proper Tory values are not you libertarian agenda, tough!!!!
    It has nothing to do with libertarians or Tories. It is a straight moral issue. You want people poorer than your parents to fund their care through their taxes so you can inherit their wealth. That is a clear moral issue regardless of politics and I think Max is right in what your vicar might think
    It has everything to do with libertarians or Tories.

    Both you and Max are classical liberals, more in common with each other than traditional Tories.

    Scrapping the £86k cap hits average homeowners or less with £200k to £400k homes especially hard as most of their estate goes in care costs.

    The biggest rise in NI by Sunak by far was for those earning over £100k, lower earners even saw a slight NI cut.

    So don't give me this crap about NI hitting the poor most while the social care cap only protects the rich!!!
    That is the 2nd time now you have accused me of saying 'poor' when I actually said 'poorer' The words have very different meanings. Try reading what I say.

    You want people POORER (not the poor) than your parents to fund their care through their taxes so you can inherit their wealth.
    Twisters always twist. Grifters always grift.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Hunt getting his team in place
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Was saving the @SavantaComRes net favourability ratings for tomorrow, but may as well mention that Braverman's is -19 (14% favourable, 33% unfavourable, 29% neither, 24% DK).

    She ranks just below Cleverly, but higher than her predecessor (Patel, -40).

    https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1582756290278748166
  • Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Big Tofu has claimed another victim in @SuellaBraverman #Lizaster

    #Liztopia
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    @rcs1000

    Tactiacal voting would certainly reduce the number of Tory MPs, probably down to single figures.

    The LDs might just become the official Opposition, but more likely it would be the SNP. Ian Blackwood must be having wet dreams at the possibility, and it certainly is possible.

    How can the Scottish Nationalists be His Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
    Please correct me if I'm mistaken, OKC, but they would be second largest Party in Westminster, ...so they automatically become the official Opposition.

    No?
    I don’t see any other outcome

  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited October 2022
    Big Tofu wokerati at it again.
This discussion has been closed.