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Sunak remains favourite to succeed Truss as PM – politicalbetting.com

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,251

    Polly Mackenzie
    @pollymackenzie
    ·
    1h
    The good news is that no one will try libertarian bullshit again for at least 20 years.

    It was Truss’s spending profligacy that was her undoing. If this episode has killed anything off, it is the idea that the state doesn’t need to balance the books.
    Which buggers Labour's ability to fund its public sector clients.

    It's going to be fun watching that.
    Glad to hear you are looking forward to the next Labour government.
    You get your pleasures where you can these days.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    Scott_xP said:

    POLL EXCLUSIVE

    Tory members would vote for Rishi Sunak not Liz Truss as leader today

    60% Sunak
    40% Truss
    (From members who shared a view)

    Suggests the grassroots are turning.
    (Polling by @JLPartnersPolls)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/

    After the last few weeks, and the personal ratings of Truss right now, getting 40% suggests to me the members still really do not like Sunak.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Leon said:

    Interesting thread by that Belarus journalist that the entire Russian/Belarus build up is a feint. To attract Ukr troops from the south/east and weaken those fronts

    Could be

    However, I’m not sure I buy it (even as I respect his inside knowledge). Because Putin is losing the war and an all out direct-route attack on kyiv from the north is the last conventional throw of the die - or
    rather the last one that might win for Russia (tho I doubt Putin would win, but at least he’d have a chance)

    If it is however a feint, and Putin does not attack, I can’t see how Putin has ANY chance of winning. What other move is there? In that case he is condemning himself and Russia to a long grinding attritional winter that ends in defeat for him


    That’s not his style. He escalates

    I said it was a feint several days ago.

    This war is lost. It has been one military disaster after another. He has been lied to repeatedly and for decades about the reality of the Ru army machine and now the whole world knows.

    I wonder if he is surprised by what has happened or did he deep down know that everything his generals and aides were telling him was all lies?





  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,214
    Soft ball interview, too.
    Imagine what Andrew Neil or Paxman in their pomp would have done.
    Dreadfully sad.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,715
    dixiedean said:

    "I'll lead the Party into the next election."
    Yes, Liz.

    She might call one tommorow...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 18,013

    I'll lead Tories into next election, says embattled Liz Truss

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63293891

    An election before Christmas then.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,112
    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    I suppose the one thing Liz Truss can take from today is that if you add up all of Gordon Brown's terrible days - the Bigoted Woman incident, the orange blob, the address to the nation in which he was told to smile, the car crash ppb, farmy farm, phonegate, the day on which he started listing, alphabetically, every single person in the UK in order to explain that he hated everyone without discrimination*, Liz's day today wasn't quite as bad as all of that put together. But I don't think any PM has had such a bad, embarassing, weird single day as this that I can remember.

    *one or two things on this list may by mythical.

    Worse than Friday's then?
    In all honesty I was out on Friday (a nice day on the moors above Manchester) and only heard the odd snippet until I came home. I didn't get to see the shambles unfolding in the same way.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    darkage said:

    DavidL said:

    I was just coming down from the Isle of Skye when poor Mordaunt was answering the same question 30 times or more. Signal was happily extremely patchy at that point.
    I was nearer to Perth when Hunt gave his statement and got nearly all of it.

    He was good , I thought. After the pantomime of the last couple of weeks it was nice to hear an adult again. Reeves wasn’t great. It was almost as if she was befuddled by the number of points she wanted to make and she ended up somewhat scatter gun and incoherent.

    If the markets remain calm tomorrow it might be a good day to move Truss on and put together a real team.

    I thought this was a truly outstanding performance by Jeremy Hunt. He has mastered his brief over the course of a few days. Managed to project an image of economic competence from a near impossible starting point. If the tories had the will to win again they would make him PM. It is no good just having a 'good communicator', you need a good leader and he is it.
    I wouldn't get carried away, and the damage done feels terminal, but he has at least given the impression of having gotten on top of the detail quickly.

    With all respect to Truss and Kwarteng, who are probably very able people, their deer in the headlights act on the reaction to their plans, and attempts to avoid the OBR and the like, gave the impression they needed a lot more time to get on top of things, but hadn't bothered to wait.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    edited October 2022
    Chris Chope on Iain Dale show - "Stick with Liz."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5A6SjKNHIk

    This guy is a laugh riot!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,251
    Scott_xP said:

    POLL EXCLUSIVE

    Tory members would vote for Rishi Sunak not Liz Truss as leader today

    60% Sunak
    40% Truss
    (From members who shared a view)

    Suggests the grassroots are turning.
    (Polling by @JLPartnersPolls)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/

    "(From members who shared a view)"

    There are a very significant number of Truss voters who are still hiding behind the sofa, replying to nobody about anything.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,382

    Jonathan said:

    glw said:

    Jonathan said:

    Nobody cares. Why not have a go at dealing with reality rather than made up questions?

    No. Go on tell me what you think Corbyn would have been like from 2019 to 2022. I think you know damn well he'd have been a disaster.
    Nobody cares. I would rather think about how we can undo the current mess. Truss and Boris were actual disasters.
    Yes. Even in politics, actual undeniable disasters are WAY more than significant credible theoretical disasters.

    From the day that Truss & Kwarteng (remember him) tanked the Pound, Tory incantations of Corbyn! Corbyn! Corbyn! became worthless in appealing to anyone beyond paid-up Tory members.
    And it is not like Corbyn had exactly unalloyed support from the Labour Party. There was a sizeable rump (of which NickP of this parish is our local representative) who support his brand of Socialism, plus an assortment of arriviste 10 quidders who came from the SWP to do damage. But the bulk of Labour are still Co-ops and Fabians and that is why they have found it so easy to regroup post Corbyn.

    It is not clear that this is true of the post-Johnson Tory party.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,214
    edited October 2022
    "She's in a tricky spot" says Ben Riley-Smith on World Tonight.
    Indeed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    AlistairM said:

    I take this as Wallace being out the running. Very notable that he doesn't say he wants Truss to remain! Personally think he'll become NATO SG at some point in the future.

    NEW: Ben Wallace says he wants to remain as Defence Secretary

    He told @thetimes: “I want to be the secretary of state for defence until I finish. I love the job I do and we have more to do. I want the prime minister to be the prime minister and I want to do this job.”

    https://twitter.com/darrenmccaffrey/status/1582104016481562624

    It does feel like a signal - promise me this job, and I'll back whoever.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,163
    ...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,382
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Would you buy a quality used car from these people?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,214
    edited October 2022
    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    I suppose the one thing Liz Truss can take from today is that if you add up all of Gordon Brown's terrible days - the Bigoted Woman incident, the orange blob, the address to the nation in which he was told to smile, the car crash ppb, farmy farm, phonegate, the day on which he started listing, alphabetically, every single person in the UK in order to explain that he hated everyone without discrimination*, Liz's day today wasn't quite as bad as all of that put together. But I don't think any PM has had such a bad, embarassing, weird single day as this that I can remember.

    *one or two things on this list may by mythical.

    Worse than Friday's then?
    In all honesty I was out on Friday (a nice day on the moors above Manchester) and only heard the odd snippet until I came home. I didn't get to see the shambles unfolding in the same way.
    Nor I today.
    Friday was bad.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490

    Polly Mackenzie
    @pollymackenzie
    ·
    1h
    The good news is that no one will try libertarian bullshit again for at least 20 years.

    There'll be plenty of think tank jobs available for them, though lord knows what they do all day when they might as well release the same press release every time the government announces 'normal' things.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,279
    Two questions.

    What is the total number of people self employed in the UK?
    What is the number of people affected by IR35?

    From my own experience most self employed people have relatively modest earnings. I'm no expert on IR35 but I doubt it's a fraction of the self employed total in this country. To equate IR35 with a war on the self employed is ridiculous.

    Note: This is not a defence of IR35. Maybe it needs to go. But how many people does it affect?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Has there ever be a bigger bucket of ice cold water of reality pitched over a PM's head than Hunt delivered today? Voodoo Truss economics drowned like kittens in a sack in a single half hour.


    Look at the Telegraph:


  • mwadams said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Would you buy a quality used car from these people?
    Personally wouldn't hire 'em to carry a bucket of bullshit across a country road. OR a city street either.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,715
    kle4 said:

    darkage said:

    DavidL said:

    I was just coming down from the Isle of Skye when poor Mordaunt was answering the same question 30 times or more. Signal was happily extremely patchy at that point.
    I was nearer to Perth when Hunt gave his statement and got nearly all of it.

    He was good , I thought. After the pantomime of the last couple of weeks it was nice to hear an adult again. Reeves wasn’t great. It was almost as if she was befuddled by the number of points she wanted to make and she ended up somewhat scatter gun and incoherent.

    If the markets remain calm tomorrow it might be a good day to move Truss on and put together a real team.

    I thought this was a truly outstanding performance by Jeremy Hunt. He has mastered his brief over the course of a few days. Managed to project an image of economic competence from a near impossible starting point. If the tories had the will to win again they would make him PM. It is no good just having a 'good communicator', you need a good leader and he is it.
    I wouldn't get carried away, and the damage done feels terminal, but he has at least given the impression of having gotten on top of the detail quickly.

    With all respect to Truss and Kwarteng, who are probably very able people, their deer in the headlights act on the reaction to their plans, and attempts to avoid the OBR and the like, gave the impression they needed a lot more time to get on top of things, but hadn't bothered to wait.
    All Hunt did was to reverse the mini-budget, and to humiliate the PM by shredding every one of her promises. There were no new ideas, just an attempt to turn back the clock.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,588
    Scott_xP said:

    POLL EXCLUSIVE

    Tory members would vote for Rishi Sunak not Liz Truss as leader today

    60% Sunak
    40% Truss
    (From members who shared a view)

    Suggests the grassroots are turning.
    (Polling by @JLPartnersPolls)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/

    A bit late now. Idiots.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,251

    Leon said:

    Interesting thread by that Belarus journalist that the entire Russian/Belarus build up is a feint. To attract Ukr troops from the south/east and weaken those fronts

    Could be

    However, I’m not sure I buy it (even as I respect his inside knowledge). Because Putin is losing the war and an all out direct-route attack on kyiv from the north is the last conventional throw of the die - or
    rather the last one that might win for Russia (tho I doubt Putin would win, but at least he’d have a chance)

    If it is however a feint, and Putin does not attack, I can’t see how Putin has ANY chance of winning. What other move is there? In that case he is condemning himself and Russia to a long grinding attritional winter that ends in defeat for him


    That’s not his style. He escalates

    I said it was a feint several days ago.

    This war is lost. It has been one military disaster after another. He has been lied to repeatedly and for decades about the reality of the Ru army machine and now the whole world knows.

    I wonder if he is surprised by what has happened or did he deep down know that everything his generals and aides were telling him was all lies?

    He is probably genuinely surprised/impressed at just how much his klepto-buddies had skimmed off the military. Whole armies don't exist except on paper.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    AlistairM said:

    Scott_xP said:

    POLL EXCLUSIVE

    Tory members would vote for Rishi Sunak not Liz Truss as leader today

    60% Sunak
    40% Truss
    (From members who shared a view)

    Suggests the grassroots are turning.
    (Polling by @JLPartnersPolls)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/

    A bit late now. Idiots.
    That is genuinely fucking hilarious.

  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,708
    The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_xP said:

    POLL EXCLUSIVE

    Tory members would vote for Rishi Sunak not Liz Truss as leader today

    60% Sunak
    40% Truss
    (From members who shared a view)

    Suggests the grassroots are turning.
    (Polling by @JLPartnersPolls)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/

    Fuck the grassroots. Other than the Waffen SS I cannot think of a more loathsome contemptible and damaging group of individuals in the last 100 years.
    Johnson's last cabinet does it for me. Truly late stage Conservatism.

    Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Secretary – Dominic Raab
    Chancellor – Nadhim Zahawi
    Home Secretary – Priti Patel
    Foreign Secretary – Liz Truss
    Health Secretary – Steve Barclay
    Education Secretary – James Cleverly
    Defence Secretary – Ben Wallace
    Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster – Kit Malthouse
    Levelling Up Secretary – Greg Clark
    Transport Secretary – Grant Shapps
    Business Secretary – Kwasi Kwarteng
    COP26 President – Alok Sharma
    Trade Secretary – Anne-Marie Trevelyan
    Work and Pensions Secretary – Thérèse Coffey
    Environment Secretary – George Eustice
    Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Secretary – Nadine Dorries
    Northern Ireland Secretary – Shailesh Vara
    Scotland Secretary – Alister Jack
    Wales Secretary – Sir Robert Buckland
    Leader of the House of Lords – Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
    Minister for Brexit Opportunities and Government Efficiency – Jacob Rees-Mogg

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/who-new-cabinet-full-list-ministers-appointed-boris-johnson-1731738
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490

    Has there ever be a bigger bucket of ice cold water of reality pitched over a PM's head than Hunt delivered today? Voodoo Truss economics drowned like kittens in a sack in a single half hour.


    Look at the Telegraph:


    It is a rare case of political reporting not being hyperbolic enough. I mean, it's simply crazy when you break it down - the PM is sat there, tacitly endorsing the exact opposite of what she has been claiming for weeks.

    Yes, 'changing circumstances' and all that, difficult decisions, but she was essentially saying we could spend spend spend with less and less tax, because growth yo, and Hunt is one step from claiming people should eat their smallest child to get through the winter to come.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,438

    Leon said:

    Interesting thread by that Belarus journalist that the entire Russian/Belarus build up is a feint. To attract Ukr troops from the south/east and weaken those fronts

    Could be

    However, I’m not sure I buy it (even as I respect his inside knowledge). Because Putin is losing the war and an all out direct-route attack on kyiv from the north is the last conventional throw of the die - or
    rather the last one that might win for Russia (tho I doubt Putin would win, but at least he’d have a chance)

    If it is however a feint, and Putin does not attack, I can’t see how Putin has ANY chance of winning. What other move is there? In that case he is condemning himself and Russia to a long grinding attritional winter that ends in defeat for him


    That’s not his style. He escalates

    I said it was a feint several days ago.

    This war is lost. It has been one military disaster after another. He has been lied to repeatedly and for decades about the reality of the Ru army machine and now the whole world knows.

    I wonder if he is surprised by what has happened or did he deep down know that everything his generals and aides were telling him was all lies?





    So Putin is just going to accept the war is lost? If this is a feint that’s the implication. Because whats his other plan to turn all this around? Simply pouring more troops into the southern front means more Russians die in the meat grinder… and he still loses. And is likely deposed and maybe killed

    He needs a game changer - a whole new way this war is fought - and he needs it fast

    I stand by my prediction he will pound Ukraine with drones to degrade their energy supplies, then invade from the north

    Because he ain’t got any alternative (conventional)

    We shall see….

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    darkage said:

    DavidL said:

    I was just coming down from the Isle of Skye when poor Mordaunt was answering the same question 30 times or more. Signal was happily extremely patchy at that point.
    I was nearer to Perth when Hunt gave his statement and got nearly all of it.

    He was good , I thought. After the pantomime of the last couple of weeks it was nice to hear an adult again. Reeves wasn’t great. It was almost as if she was befuddled by the number of points she wanted to make and she ended up somewhat scatter gun and incoherent.

    If the markets remain calm tomorrow it might be a good day to move Truss on and put together a real team.

    I thought this was a truly outstanding performance by Jeremy Hunt. He has mastered his brief over the course of a few days. Managed to project an image of economic competence from a near impossible starting point. If the tories had the will to win again they would make him PM. It is no good just having a 'good communicator', you need a good leader and he is it.
    I wouldn't get carried away, and the damage done feels terminal, but he has at least given the impression of having gotten on top of the detail quickly.

    With all respect to Truss and Kwarteng, who are probably very able people, their deer in the headlights act on the reaction to their plans, and attempts to avoid the OBR and the like, gave the impression they needed a lot more time to get on top of things, but hadn't bothered to wait.
    All Hunt did was to reverse the mini-budget, and to humiliate the PM by shredding every one of her promises. There were no new ideas, just an attempt to turn back the clock.
    New ideas are not automatically better, as we have just seen amply demonstrated.

    It's been quite the demonstration of how there might be consensus the current path is not working well, but that doesn't mean that path heading over the cliff edge is a better alternative.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,382

    The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted

    I would have more sympathy if this was not entirely her own bloody fault. Nobody made her stand as leader, kiss hands, and tank the economy. She wanted all this, and now she's got it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,214

    The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted

    Which is why she can't stay even as a figurehead.
    Someone (everyone?) must have told her this interview was a bad idea. And yet she did it.
    A PM can do that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    dixiedean said:

    "She's in a tricky spot" says Ben Riley-Smith on World Tonight.
    Indeed.

    More fecked than Planet StepMums.

  • glwglw Posts: 8,869

    AlistairM said:

    Scott_xP said:

    POLL EXCLUSIVE

    Tory members would vote for Rishi Sunak not Liz Truss as leader today

    60% Sunak
    40% Truss
    (From members who shared a view)

    Suggests the grassroots are turning.
    (Polling by @JLPartnersPolls)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/

    A bit late now. Idiots.
    That is genuinely fucking hilarious.

    Basically it's taken the bomb going off for the average Tory member to see what pretty much everyone here figured out months ago.
  • eekeek Posts: 22,056

    Two questions.

    What is the total number of people self employed in the UK?
    What is the number of people affected by IR35?

    From my own experience most self employed people have relatively modest earnings. I'm no expert on IR35 but I doubt it's a fraction of the self employed total in this country. To equate IR35 with a war on the self employed is ridiculous.

    Note: This is not a defence of IR35. Maybe it needs to go. But how many people does it affect?

    Best estimate I’ve seen is 1 million or so, it’s based on multiple datapoints one of which was the 1.6million self employed and unable rot claim furlough money back in 2020.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    mwadams said:

    The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted

    I would have more sympathy if this was not entirely her own bloody fault. Nobody made her stand as leader, kiss hands, and tank the economy. She wanted all this, and now she's got it.
    That'll teach her to swear on a monkeypaw.
  • The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted

    Then let her quit, go home and take a nap.

    BTW, in tonight's interview, did she ever say where the heck she was when she wasn't where she damn well should have been?
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,588
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Interesting thread by that Belarus journalist that the entire Russian/Belarus build up is a feint. To attract Ukr troops from the south/east and weaken those fronts

    Could be

    However, I’m not sure I buy it (even as I respect his inside knowledge). Because Putin is losing the war and an all out direct-route attack on kyiv from the north is the last conventional throw of the die - or
    rather the last one that might win for Russia (tho I doubt Putin would win, but at least he’d have a chance)

    If it is however a feint, and Putin does not attack, I can’t see how Putin has ANY chance of winning. What other move is there? In that case he is condemning himself and Russia to a long grinding attritional winter that ends in defeat for him


    That’s not his style. He escalates

    I said it was a feint several days ago.

    This war is lost. It has been one military disaster after another. He has been lied to repeatedly and for decades about the reality of the Ru army machine and now the whole world knows.

    I wonder if he is surprised by what has happened or did he deep down know that everything his generals and aides were telling him was all lies?





    So Putin is just going to accept the war is lost? If this is a feint that’s the implication. Because whats his other plan to turn all this around? Simply pouring more troops into the southern front means more Russians die in the meat grinder… and he still loses. And is likely deposed and maybe killed

    He needs a game changer - a whole new way this war is fought - and he needs it fast

    I stand by my prediction he will pound Ukraine with drones to degrade their energy supplies, then invade from the north

    Because he ain’t got any alternative (conventional)

    We shall see….

    The drones used in the last couple of days have mainly been used as terror weapons. Seemingly they don't seem to have much else left.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,363
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ihunt said:

    i think this is what Farage means when he talks about a globalist coup

    Lots of chatter around in Tory circles speculating about the degree to which Sunakites with City links may have deliberately stoked the market run against Truss/Kwarteng.

    https://twitter.com/oflynnsocial/status/1582095411107414016?s=20&t=pAaHO2IC7bBRXlBMb8-fcQ

    Oh please,

    Sunak was a relatively junior guy at TCI, which deals solely in equities. The idea that he could affect the bond market for political purposes is utterly ridiculous.

    Why would the spivs prefer Sunak to Kwarteng? If anything you'd expect them to prefer Kwarteng's tax cutting for personal reasons. Ultimately they're capitalists who want to make money. Not lending at favourable rates of interest to a government that has no plan to bring down the debt burden and presumably would inflate/devalue it away.
    You make a good point: Kwarteng (Odey Asset Management) is at least as plugged into that world as Sunak.
    I think if there was a conspiracy afoot, Kwasi would have been at the heart of it. He's behaved like a remote operated IED device at the heart of the Truss project. Weird things like his meeting with Hedge Fund Managers too. What puzzles about the theory is whether there's sufficient reward in it for him to have also thrown his own reputation on the fire.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,869
    mwadams said:

    The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted

    I would have more sympathy if this was not entirely her own bloody fault. Nobody made her stand as leader, kiss hands, and tank the economy. She wanted all this, and now she's got it.
    This is like the idiot who has had too much to drink ending up wrecking his car, in A&E, and arrested. Sympathy is hard to conjure up.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,992
    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Any PM candidate is going to have to be a team player because Hunt isn’t going to be moveable from the Treasury now and has a clear grip on fiscal policy. So their role as PM is going to be presentational and tone-setting.

    For that reason I think Penny is the best fit for them. Has the best chance of giving them a 200-240 seat result IMHO.

    What does the 2024 manifesto say? Where's the vision for Britain? If it's all managerial with a token figurehead PR PM balancing an uneasy truce, that is unlikely to work.

    In my view the hack doesn't work, the Tories have to choose which way they want to go and deal with the consequences.
    Given that Hunt's original leadership platform was not a million miles away from Truss's, we might end up with Trussism by the back door, but with collegiate decision making and competent execution.
    He came 8th out of 8
    Which was, frankly, ridiculous. He has gone from the back benches to Chancellor in a time of genuine crisis and not even broken sweat. Not sure any of the other 7 could have done that. Maybe Rishi.
    I'm no great fan, but agreed.
    And I though he performed today far more convincingly than Mordaunt, FWIW.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,363
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_xP said:

    POLL EXCLUSIVE

    Tory members would vote for Rishi Sunak not Liz Truss as leader today

    60% Sunak
    40% Truss
    (From members who shared a view)

    Suggests the grassroots are turning.
    (Polling by @JLPartnersPolls)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/

    Fuck the grassroots. Other than the Waffen SS I cannot think of a more loathsome contemptible and damaging group of individuals in the last 100 years.
    The MPs Shirley?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    dixiedean said:

    The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted

    Which is why she can't stay even as a figurehead.
    Someone (everyone?) must have told her this interview was a bad idea. And yet she did it.
    A PM can do that.
    One thing we have learnt is that she is surrounded by some of the worst aides and advisors in the history of politics. Every step has been a disaster since the minute she took office.

  • glwglw Posts: 8,869
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Any PM candidate is going to have to be a team player because Hunt isn’t going to be moveable from the Treasury now and has a clear grip on fiscal policy. So their role as PM is going to be presentational and tone-setting.

    For that reason I think Penny is the best fit for them. Has the best chance of giving them a 200-240 seat result IMHO.

    What does the 2024 manifesto say? Where's the vision for Britain? If it's all managerial with a token figurehead PR PM balancing an uneasy truce, that is unlikely to work.

    In my view the hack doesn't work, the Tories have to choose which way they want to go and deal with the consequences.
    Given that Hunt's original leadership platform was not a million miles away from Truss's, we might end up with Trussism by the back door, but with collegiate decision making and competent execution.
    He came 8th out of 8
    Which was, frankly, ridiculous. He has gone from the back benches to Chancellor in a time of genuine crisis and not even broken sweat. Not sure any of the other 7 could have done that. Maybe Rishi.
    I'm no great fan, but agreed.
    And I though he performed today far more convincingly than Mordaunt, FWIW.
    Hunt would make a good leader of a party other than the Conservatives. I don't know what party, or if a suitable party even exists in the UK, but he's got the knack.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,708
    mwadams said:

    The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted

    I would have more sympathy if this was not entirely her own bloody fault. Nobody made her stand as leader, kiss hands, and tank the economy. She wanted all this, and now she's got it.
    Oh I agree. But that doesn’t stop the whole thing feeling horrible on a basic human level. She thought she was genuinely good. Her whole career built up to this moment. Now tarnished.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,163

    The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted

    True, but the pressure's off now.

    She never has to make another decision again without running it past other people.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,163
    ...
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited October 2022
    Six Russians have been arrested in Norway, apparently on suspicion of spying, following a number of alleged drone sightings near gas and oil infrastructure. They are

    * a Russian-Israeli man arrested at the Norwegian-Russian border with two drones "and several data storage units" in his car, 13 Oct
    * a Russian man arrested the next day
    * four Russian citizens arrested prior to those two "on suspicion of illegally photographing classified facilities", but whose arrests were not publicly announced until today.

    If we assume the above is true, there must be a reason why the first guy didn't dump the drones. And was there no better way of getting the data out than carrying it out in his car?


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,715
    edited October 2022
    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Interesting thread by that Belarus journalist that the entire Russian/Belarus build up is a feint. To attract Ukr troops from the south/east and weaken those fronts

    Could be

    However, I’m not sure I buy it (even as I respect his inside knowledge). Because Putin is losing the war and an all out direct-route attack on kyiv from the north is the last conventional throw of the die - or
    rather the last one that might win for Russia (tho I doubt Putin would win, but at least he’d have a chance)

    If it is however a feint, and Putin does not attack, I can’t see how Putin has ANY chance of winning. What other move is there? In that case he is condemning himself and Russia to a long grinding attritional winter that ends in defeat for him


    That’s not his style. He escalates

    I said it was a feint several days ago.

    This war is lost. It has been one military disaster after another. He has been lied to repeatedly and for decades about the reality of the Ru army machine and now the whole world knows.

    I wonder if he is surprised by what has happened or did he deep down know that everything his generals and aides were telling him was all lies?





    So Putin is just going to accept the war is lost? If this is a feint that’s the implication. Because whats his other plan to turn all this around? Simply pouring more troops into the southern front means more Russians die in the meat grinder… and he still loses. And is likely deposed and maybe killed

    He needs a game changer - a whole new way this war is fought - and he needs it fast

    I stand by my prediction he will pound Ukraine with drones to degrade their energy supplies, then invade from the north

    Because he ain’t got any alternative (conventional)

    We shall see….

    The drones used in the last couple of days have mainly been used as terror weapons. Seemingly they don't seem to have much else left.
    Today Putine droned a wineshop, killing a pregnant woman, her husband and cat. That ain't going to win him no war.

    The invasion route from Belarus has been turned into a kill zone that would make the last attempt look like a victory. The game is up Vlad
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,795
    glw said:

    I see we are back to the PB Tories luxuriating in their nostalgic fantasies about a bloke that is no longer a Labour MP.

    Funny old world.

    It's not nostalgia, it's genuinely interesting that Labour supporters won't even entertain the hypothetical quesion of what a Corbyn victory would have been like. After all they were cheering him on three years ago.

    The last 8 months of the Ukraine war have made me think a Corybn premiership would have been calamitous. It's the one thing I'll give Johnson some real credit for. Johnson is a lazy, dishonest idiot, but his instincts on the biggest issues were generally right.

    It would be a lot easier to believe Labour has changed if they could do some soul searching about such things, that they don't or won't makes me think the change is only skin deep. On here you might not see many "out" Corbyn supporters, but they still seem to be there in large numbers.
    Other than trying to deflect from the Tories current debacle what is the point of theorising about what a man who is no longer a Labour MP let alone Labour leader might do if he had been elected 3 years ago?

    I agree with you that that he would have made a very poor PM and that's why I didn't vote Labour in 2017 or 2019. However it's what Starmer would do that is relevant now and as far as I am concerned he would be a considerably better option that what I've seem from Johnson and Truss over the last few years. As things stand I would vote Labour if there were a GE tomorrow. Corbyn is no longer relevant to most voters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,977

    Polly Mackenzie
    @pollymackenzie
    ·
    1h
    The good news is that no one will try libertarian bullshit again for at least 20 years.

    It was Truss’s spending profligacy that was her undoing. If this episode has killed anything off, it is the idea that the state doesn’t need to balance the books.
    Which buggers Labour's ability to fund its public sector clients.

    It's going to be fun watching that.
    It is a very foolish to promote the not particularly hilarious notion that Labour, should they win the next election, will be unable to manage the economy because we (the Tories) have written off the nation''s finances and to quote Labour f***wit Liam Byrne there is no money left. What a laugh! It really shouldn't be a game.

    It makes no odds to the likes of you and me if inflation and mortgage rates hit double figures. It won't trouble you and me if energy becomes so expensive that some will turn the heating off. Such issues will be minor inconveniences. However there are plenty of people who will be affected. Children going hungry and the fearful elderly dying of hypothermia as they turn off their boilers. That is just plain wrong in 2022 Britain. Truss and her cabinet (until Hunt's arrival) viewed government as a joke (the anti- growth coalition) as did Johnson before her. We deserve better.

    I am sure you are right that Labour is **** but they are at least attempting to take things seriously after years of half-wittery. Labour deserved their spanking in the RedWall in 2019 and their drubbing (as the Party of Remain) in the EURef. for their decades of letting the poor and the dispossessed down, and throughout the UK. The Conservatives are not alone in their current casuality. I am watching Nippy talking utter bollocks on ITV news. The children of Britain deserve better. I am not sure another decade or two of hubristic Conservatives is the answer however.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,951
    Leon said:

    Interesting thread by that Belarus journalist that the entire Russian/Belarus build up is a feint. To attract Ukr troops from the south/east and weaken those fronts

    Could be

    However, I’m not sure I buy it (even as I respect his inside knowledge). Because Putin is losing the war and an all out direct-route attack on kyiv from the north is the last conventional throw of the die - or
    rather the last one that might win for Russia (tho I doubt Putin would win, but at least he’d have a chance)

    If it is however a feint, and Putin does not attack, I can’t see how Putin has ANY chance of winning. What other move is there? In that case he is condemning himself and Russia to a long grinding attritional winter that ends in defeat for him


    That’s not his style. He escalates

    That's very much the Fiona Hill view:

    Another hallmark of Putin is that he doubles down. He always takes the more extreme step in his range of options, the one that actually cuts off other alternatives. Putin has often related an experience he had as a kid, when he trapped a rat in a corner in the apartment building he lived in, in Leningrad, and the rat shocked him by jumping out and fighting back. He tells this story as if it’s a story about himself, that if he’s ever cornered, he will always fight back.

    But he’s also the person who puts himself in the corner. We know that the Russians have had very high casualties and that they’ve been running out of manpower and equipment in Ukraine. The casualty rate on the Russian side keeps mounting. A few months ago, estimates were 50,000. Now the suggestions are 90,000 killed and many more injured. This is a real blow given the 170,000 Russia troops deployed to the Ukrainian border when the invasion began.


    From the must read Politico interview - https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/10/17/fiona-hill-putin-war-00061894
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,708
    Jonathan said:

    Just seen the Truss interview. She is (quite understandably) not ok. At a human level and in the national interest, I hope she has someone close who is looking after her. I think she might have to resign for personal reasons.

    Exactly. She looks broken. For her sake. I hope she sails off into the distance, a permanently fixed feature upon many a pub quiz
  • RunDeepRunDeep Posts: 41
    For @rkrkrk - re the latest report on the Met: Mrs Free wrote what the Met needed to do last February - and is now reminding the Met:

    https://twitter.com/cyclefree2/status/1582116679512772608?s=61&t=FcrhzbWCKZSdu-hoMdowjQ
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,196
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    "It's time for the wise men and women of the Conservative Party to decide whether the loss of confidence in Ms Truss is terminal. If it is, they must come to a solution - and fast - that can command the support of MPs and the millions of Tory voters looking on in horror."

    Despite the slightly comical turns of phrase here ("wise men and women"? / "whether the loss of confidence.. is terminal"? . "millions of Tory voters"?) the fact the DM is publishing something like that should tell the party everything they need to know. She needs to go.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    "I'll lead the Party into the next election."
    Yes, Liz.

    She might call one tommorow...
    Then the sequence of Tory PMs would run

    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election in bid for strength and stability and loses seats
    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election for goodness knows what reason and loses seats
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,951


    dixiedean said:

    "I'll lead the Party into the next election."
    Yes, Liz.

    I thought she'd been told to stop engaging in wild fantasies?
    She's referring to next week's local byelection in Bournemouth.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,574
    What is Truss's blinking thing about? Is it just extreme stress?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,345
    edited October 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Not even the Mail is in her corner

    Her mps have to act and bring an end to this dreadful saga and not least for Truss's own mental health

    It needs to happen now
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Not even the Mail is on her corner

    Her mps have to act and bring an end to this dreadful saga and not least for Truss's own mental health

    It needs to happen now
    Wow. Incredible front page.

    It's over.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,074
    If Sunak does get it it will have to be by coronation and an attempt to save the furniture, rather like when Kevin Rudd replaced Julia Gillard before the 2013 Australian election
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    What is Truss's blinking thing about? Is it just extreme stress?

    What else could it be? Sending a message?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,074
    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    "I'll lead the Party into the next election."
    Yes, Liz.

    She might call one tommorow...
    Then the sequence of Tory PMs would run

    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election in bid for strength and stability and loses seats
    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election for goodness knows what reason and loses seats
    Or Old Etonian, state educated woman, Old Etonian, comprehensive educated woman, Wykehamist if Sunak gets it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    edited October 2022
    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    "I'll lead the Party into the next election."
    Yes, Liz.

    She might call one tommorow...
    Then the sequence of Tory PMs would run

    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election in bid for strength and stability and loses seats
    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election for goodness knows what reason and loses seats
    May was 20+ points ahead when she called for a GE, but ended up only a few points ahead.
    Truss is 20+ points behind (at least!) were she to call for a GE, so would end up only a few points behind?

    Would be a creative idea at least.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,917
    HYUFD said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    "I'll lead the Party into the next election."
    Yes, Liz.

    She might call one tommorow...
    Then the sequence of Tory PMs would run

    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election in bid for strength and stability and loses seats
    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election for goodness knows what reason and loses seats
    Or Old Etonian, state educated woman, Old Etonian, comprehensive educated woman, Wykehamist if Sunak gets it
    Mogg is ready and waiting.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,251
    Newsnight on Truss: "the dam could burst this week".
  • ihuntihunt Posts: 146
    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Interesting thread by that Belarus journalist that the entire Russian/Belarus build up is a feint. To attract Ukr troops from the south/east and weaken those fronts

    Could be

    However, I’m not sure I buy it (even as I respect his inside knowledge). Because Putin is losing the war and an all out direct-route attack on kyiv from the north is the last conventional throw of the die - or
    rather the last one that might win for Russia (tho I doubt Putin would win, but at least he’d have a chance)

    If it is however a feint, and Putin does not attack, I can’t see how Putin has ANY chance of winning. What other move is there? In that case he is condemning himself and Russia to a long grinding attritional winter that ends in defeat for him


    That’s not his style. He escalates

    I said it was a feint several days ago.

    This war is lost. It has been one military disaster after another. He has been lied to repeatedly and for decades about the reality of the Ru army machine and now the whole world knows.

    I wonder if he is surprised by what has happened or did he deep down know that everything his generals and aides were telling him was all lies?





    So Putin is just going to accept the war is lost? If this is a feint that’s the implication. Because whats his other plan to turn all this around? Simply pouring more troops into the southern front means more Russians die in the meat grinder… and he still loses. And is likely deposed and maybe killed

    He needs a game changer - a whole new way this war is fought - and he needs it fast

    I stand by my prediction he will pound Ukraine with drones to degrade their energy supplies, then invade from the north

    Because he ain’t got any alternative (conventional)

    We shall see….

    The drones used in the last couple of days have mainly been used as terror weapons. Seemingly they don't seem to have much else left.
    Russias plan is to pound ukrainian infrastructure i think so much of ukraine will have disruoted power during the winter
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,074
    edited October 2022
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_xP said:

    POLL EXCLUSIVE

    Tory members would vote for Rishi Sunak not Liz Truss as leader today

    60% Sunak
    40% Truss
    (From members who shared a view)

    Suggests the grassroots are turning.
    (Polling by @JLPartnersPolls)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/

    Fuck the grassroots. Other than the Waffen SS I cannot think of a more loathsome contemptible and damaging group of individuals in the last 100 years.
    The Labour members who twice elected Corbyn, didn't even change their mind until 2 general election defeats
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,992
    Overview of Russian equipment losses added on 17/10/2022

    3 pages - 279 entries to the list!

    Note: almost all of these are old losses - huge thanks to @naalsio26 and @oryxspioenkop
    for finding all this content!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Rebel44CZ/status/1582115008195928064
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,363
    Very hard for Truss. Control has very much gone from her, and the worse thing is that the somewhat inevitable poll recovery will be credited to the presence of rat eyes.

    She needs big policy announcements, and this will be tricky, given that Hunt and the Treasury penny-pinchers may try to scuttle such notions.

    Rees Mogg at BEIS is an ally and may work with her on some key announcements, particularly on energy liberalisation, which I think Hunt would struggle to interfere with in the current circs.

    I would suggest that firstly, she sticks to Hunt like glue. It's very hard that she'll be treated as the unwanted dinner guest, but she needs to monitor everything going on at the Treasury and be a part of anything positive. A wider reshuffle might help, to (carefully) attempt to install some of her own people there.

    She also needs to go out and meet the public and the media, even if she gets rotten tomatoes thrown at her. She is still a very new PM. The public respect guts.

    If she manages survival, she'll still be PM when Hunt is as popular as a dogshit sandwich, and she'll be able to sack him.
  • Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    "I'll lead the Party into the next election."
    Yes, Liz.

    She might call one tommorow...
    Then the sequence of Tory PMs would run

    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election in bid for strength and stability and loses seats
    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election for goodness knows what reason and loses seats
    Or Old Etonian, state educated woman, Old Etonian, comprehensive educated woman, Wykehamist if Sunak gets it
    Mogg is ready and waiting.
    Don't even joke about that pleaseeeeee
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,163
    "What the cockeyed hell is going on?"
    Brilliant BBC vox pop from Nuneaton on Tory chaos https://twitter.com/GraemeDemianyk/status/1582124253452722178/video/1
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,214
    HYUFD said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    "I'll lead the Party into the next election."
    Yes, Liz.

    She might call one tommorow...
    Then the sequence of Tory PMs would run

    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election in bid for strength and stability and loses seats
    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election for goodness knows what reason and loses seats
    Or Old Etonian, state educated woman, Old Etonian, comprehensive educated woman, Wykehamist if Sunak gets it
    Barely acceptable.
    Worse.
    Worse.
    Worse
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,917

    Newsnight on Truss: "the dam could burst this week".

    They will be writing textbooks about the past few weeks for years to come as THE example for how not to govern and how not to handle a crisis.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,074

    Polly Mackenzie
    @pollymackenzie
    ·
    1h
    The good news is that no one will try libertarian bullshit again for at least 20 years.

    Can I introduce you to Suella Braverman?
    Suella Braverman is a social conservative nationalist, not a libertarian other than on economics
  • pingping Posts: 3,282
    edited October 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Not even the Mail is in her corner

    Her mps have to act and bring an end to this dreadful saga and not least for Truss's own mental health

    It needs to happen now
    Lol the shamelessness of the Mail.

    Their front page the day after the budget;

    “At last, a true Tory budget!”

    Never wrong about anything. Ever.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,592
    ping said:

    Y

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Not even the Mail is in her corner

    Her mps have to act and bring an end to this dreadful saga and not least for Truss's own mental health

    It needs to happen now
    Lol the shamelessness of the Mail.

    Never wrong about anything. Ever.
    If Leon ever needs a new job….
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    The "I will lead us into next election" interview while looking broken is the final straw surely?

    The letters to Brady will be off the scale tomorrow.

    I will lead us to hold all three safest seats more like.
  • Very hard for Truss. Control has very much gone from her, and the worse thing is that the somewhat inevitable poll recovery will be credited to the presence of rat eyes.

    She needs big policy announcements, and this will be tricky, given that Hunt and the Treasury penny-pinchers may try to scuttle such notions.

    Rees Mogg at BEIS is an ally and may work with her on some key announcements, particularly on energy liberalisation, which I think Hunt would struggle to interfere with in the current circs.

    I would suggest that firstly, she sticks to Hunt like glue. It's very hard that she'll be treated as the unwanted dinner guest, but she needs to monitor everything going on at the Treasury and be a part of anything positive. A wider reshuffle might help, to (carefully) attempt to install some of her own people there.

    She also needs to go out and meet the public and the media, even if she gets rotten tomatoes thrown at her. She is still a very new PM. The public respect guts.

    If she manages survival, she'll still be PM when Hunt is as popular as a dogshit sandwich, and she'll be able to sack him.

    Truss is never going to be in the position you suggest - indeed she will be out of office very shortly
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,214
    edited October 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Not even the Mail is in her corner

    Her mps have to act and bring an end to this dreadful saga and not least for Truss's own mental health

    It needs to happen now
    Well, Daily Mail, by running Frosties wrecking ball on Mordaunt, you own this Trussterfuck.

    Fuck off - and take your peerage hopes with you.

    Well yes.
    The Tory Party needs to speak truth to the Mail, Express and Telegraph.
    It'll be like Callaghan to the Unions. And Kinnock to Militant. Not holding my breath, mind.
    A month ago this was a Budget for the Ages. Leading to a decade of prosperity. They are deluded. And need telt.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,251
    Labour bod on Newsnight is fucking awful.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,977

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Not even the Mail is in her corner

    Her mps have to act and bring an end to this dreadful saga and not least for Truss's own mental health

    It needs to happen now
    Well, Daily Mail, by running Frosties wrecking ball on Mordaunt, you own this Trussterfuck.

    Fuck off - and take your peerage hopes with you.

    You are very angry this evening. Why not try turning off GBNews?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,363

    mwadams said:

    The whole Truss interview is deeply uncomfortable. She is useless, yes, but I am not sure putting us all through this charade is fair on her. She must be absolutely exhausted

    I would have more sympathy if this was not entirely her own bloody fault. Nobody made her stand as leader, kiss hands, and tank the economy. She wanted all this, and now she's got it.
    Oh I agree. But that doesn’t stop the whole thing feeling horrible on a basic human level. She thought she was genuinely good. Her whole career built up to this moment. Now tarnished.
    I don't know whether you fancy yourself a subtle penman, but you're not. Nobody reading this is going to think you're feeling anything 'on a basic human level' - you're enjoying a victorious wank at what you perceive to be the humiliation of a political opponent. The same goes for the other multitude of posters 'feeling this on a basic human level' - I think it's fair to say 'fuck off' on Truss's behalf.
  • ihuntihunt Posts: 146

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Not even the Mail is in her corner

    Her mps have to act and bring an end to this dreadful saga and not least for Truss's own mental health

    It needs to happen now
    Well, Daily Mail, by running Frosties wrecking ball on Mordaunt, you own this Trussterfuck.

    Fuck off - and take your peerage hopes with you.

    Again though
    Think sunak or hunt as pm will split the party
    Mordaunt is untested
    Maybe JRM can be brought in for an ultra core vote strategy
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    edited October 2022

    The "I will lead us into next election" interview while looking broken is the final straw surely?

    As wikipedia (and stodge) could tell us, there are elections around the globe all the time. The Slovenian Presidential election is this Sunday, perhaps that is the election Liz means to lead the Tories up to.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    kle4 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    "I'll lead the Party into the next election."
    Yes, Liz.

    She might call one tommorow...
    Then the sequence of Tory PMs would run

    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election in bid for strength and stability and loses seats
    * Old Etonian
    * female who calls election for goodness knows what reason and loses seats
    May was 20+ points ahead when she called for a GE, but ended up only a few points ahead.
    Truss is 20+ points behind (at least!) were she to call for a GE, so would end up only a few points behind?

    Would be a creative idea at least.
    I don't understand why some people think there's a sizeable chance that Truss will call a GE in the near future. If she does, though, she will lose seats as May did but also hand a majority to Labour, as May didn't.
  • TOPPING said:

    It's a bit fucking bonkers that before anyone visits PB they first need to check the BBC News website just in case their first post is something along the lines of I expect her to go by next Feb only to be told that she actually resigned 45 minutes ago.

    Spot on - each time I log on and she remains I have this deep seated anger and hope that while I am posting Sky or BBC newsflash

    ' Truss has resigned '
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,196
    kle4 said:

    The "I will lead us into next election" interview while looking broken is the final straw surely?

    As wikipedia (and stodge) coudl tell us, there are elections around the globe all the time. The Slovenian Presidential election is this Sunday, perhaps that is the election Liz means to lead the Tories up to.
    I think Sunday is looking quite optimistic to be frank...
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,624

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Not even the Mail is in her corner

    Her mps have to act and bring an end to this dreadful saga and not least for Truss's own mental health

    It needs to happen now
    Well, Daily Mail, by running Frosties wrecking ball on Mordaunt, you own this Trussterfuck.

    Fuck off - and take your peerage hopes with you.

    The DM has a lot to answer for . It’s vomit inducing over the top support for Truss and hatchet job on Mordaunt .
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,917

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Not even the Mail is in her corner

    Her mps have to act and bring an end to this dreadful saga and not least for Truss's own mental health

    It needs to happen now
    Well, Daily Mail, by running Frosties wrecking ball on Mordaunt, you own this Trussterfuck.

    Fuck off - and take your peerage hopes with you.

    You are very angry this evening. Why not try turning off GBNews?
    I'm on Newsnight, pillock!

    And as a life-long Tory, if I can't be angry this week, then when???
    Probably in a couple of weeks when Mogg or Braverman challenge a more centrist candidate and win.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,363

    Very hard for Truss. Control has very much gone from her, and the worse thing is that the somewhat inevitable poll recovery will be credited to the presence of rat eyes.

    She needs big policy announcements, and this will be tricky, given that Hunt and the Treasury penny-pinchers may try to scuttle such notions.

    Rees Mogg at BEIS is an ally and may work with her on some key announcements, particularly on energy liberalisation, which I think Hunt would struggle to interfere with in the current circs.

    I would suggest that firstly, she sticks to Hunt like glue. It's very hard that she'll be treated as the unwanted dinner guest, but she needs to monitor everything going on at the Treasury and be a part of anything positive. A wider reshuffle might help, to (carefully) attempt to install some of her own people there.

    She also needs to go out and meet the public and the media, even if she gets rotten tomatoes thrown at her. She is still a very new PM. The public respect guts.

    If she manages survival, she'll still be PM when Hunt is as popular as a dogshit sandwich, and she'll be able to sack him.

    Truss is never going to be in the position you suggest - indeed she will be out of office very shortly
    Perhaps, perhaps not.

    I still rate her - her intentions anyway. Her biggest mistake was to install Kwarteng. We'll never know what lead to that, but Achilles heel doesn't come close.

    Can't think who she'd have had though. I'd maybe have gone for Hunt from the beginning, but move economic growth to a No. 10 unit as Badenoch proposed.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,751
    I note there's been an attempt by a handful of Tories tonight to shift the blame for the shambles we are in from Gordon Brown to Jeremy Corbyn.

    Worth a try, I guess, but reeks a bit of desperation.
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