I can only speak from personal experience, but the rate of corporation tax never made a blind bit of difference to us when we were building our business and making investment decisions.
If the choice is between two countries which are absolutely identical, and one has a 40% corporate tax rate, and the other a 12.5% one, you choose the country with the 12.5% one.
But it's never just on tax rate.
What is the overall business environment like? The labour pool and wages? The social taxes? The airport? The ease of getting visas for temporary staff? The legal system?
There are lots of ways to make your country attractive to business investment apart from tax rate.
That is pathetic. I am sacking my chancellor for delivering the budget that I have shouted from the rooftops as being a fantastic new direction for my government and integral to our growth plans.
Ironically, since Rishi's plan did include tax allowances for research and investment, this is more likely to produce the growth Truss craves. Whether in time to save her job...
"The think tanks and forecasters who want taxes up tell us the deficit will otherwise be too big. If they have their way they will put us into a longer and deeper downturn which will mean a higher deficit, not a lower.
Over the last 2 years the OBR has massively over forecast the budget deficit and used these wrong forecasts to push a Chancellor into higher taxes. More accurate forecasting would conclude now that a lower business tax rate would be better for growth and for total tax revenue."
The last two decades has seen corporate tax rates slashed around the world. It has also seen the slowest GDP growth in the post WW2 era.
It is by no means clear that there is any correlation between corporate tax rates and growth.
Here you go...
Very selective selection.
It's the G7 + Spain.
That doesn't sound very selective to me.
it is indeed selective - since it eliminates small tax havens which appear to be @Luckyguy1983 's favoured model for economic policy.
Also the headline rates can be very deceptive. Only a clown, without access to vaguely competent lawyer and accountant, pays anything like the full US rate, for example.
Of course, and the US to some extent has its own internal tax havens.
The UK has a fair number of now foreign owned, large fairly low growth companies (utilities, for example), and gifting them low tax rates so that they can remit greater dividends overseas is not a very smart policy. And that bit of your proposed corporate tax cut certainly isn't going to grow the economy. Borrowing money to do so is nuts.
That is pathetic. I am sacking my chancellor for delivering the budget that I have shouted from the rooftops as being a fantastic new direction for my government and integral to our growth plans.
"The think tanks and forecasters who want taxes up tell us the deficit will otherwise be too big. If they have their way they will put us into a longer and deeper downturn which will mean a higher deficit, not a lower.
Over the last 2 years the OBR has massively over forecast the budget deficit and used these wrong forecasts to push a Chancellor into higher taxes. More accurate forecasting would conclude now that a lower business tax rate would be better for growth and for total tax revenue."
The last two decades has seen corporate tax rates slashed around the world. It has also seen the slowest GDP growth in the post WW2 era.
It is by no means clear that there is any correlation between corporate tax rates and growth.
Here you go...
Very selective selection.
It's the G7 + Spain.
That doesn't sound very selective to me.
it is indeed selective - since it eliminates small tax havens which appear to be @Luckyguy1983 's favoured model for economic policy.
Also the headline rates can be very deceptive. Only a clown, without access to vaguely competent lawyer and accountant, pays anything like the full US rate, for example.
Of course, and the US to some extent has its own internal tax havens.
The UK has a fair number of now foreign owned, large fairly low growth companies (utilities, for example), and gifting them low tax rates so that they can remit greater dividends overseas is not a very smart policy. And that bit of your proposed corporate tax cut certainly isn't going to grow the economy. Borrowing money to do so is nuts.
Raise the rates. If they want low Corp tax, give them huge allowances for investment in productivity - equipment and real training.
Oh dear, Comrade Greg Hands, who was on Today this morning demonstrating that he had been successfully re-educated to recant the things he said when he was a Rishi supporter, is going to have to be re-re-educated.
David Clark 🇺🇦 @David_K_Clark · 7m Replying to @DPJHodges Of course none of this is a surprise to those of us who said she was completely unfit for office. 😉
I would have thought that paying a fortune for a care home would protect against this kind of thing - you'd imagine the care staff would be on decent salaries and actually picked for wanting to do the job and having some ability to do it, but apparently not.
"The think tanks and forecasters who want taxes up tell us the deficit will otherwise be too big. If they have their way they will put us into a longer and deeper downturn which will mean a higher deficit, not a lower.
Over the last 2 years the OBR has massively over forecast the budget deficit and used these wrong forecasts to push a Chancellor into higher taxes. More accurate forecasting would conclude now that a lower business tax rate would be better for growth and for total tax revenue."
The last two decades has seen corporate tax rates slashed around the world. It has also seen the slowest GDP growth in the post WW2 era.
It is by no means clear that there is any correlation between corporate tax rates and growth.
Here you go...
Very selective selection.
It's the G7 + Spain.
That doesn't sound very selective to me.
it is indeed selective - since it eliminates small tax havens which appear to be @Luckyguy1983 's favoured model for economic policy.
Also the headline rates can be very deceptive. Only a clown, without access to vaguely competent lawyer and accountant, pays anything like the full US rate, for example.
Of course, and the US to some extent has its own internal tax havens.
The UK has a fair number of now foreign owned, large fairly low growth companies (utilities, for example), and gifting them low tax rates so that they can remit greater dividends overseas is not a very smart policy. And that bit of your proposed corporate tax cut certainly isn't going to grow the economy. Borrowing money to do so is nuts.
Raise the rates. If they want low Corp tax, give them huge allowances for investment in productivity - equipment and real training.
Or point them in the direction of Belize, which is somewhat likelier.
If their policies have been ridiculed and are in tattered, what does that say about ant principles and any mandate.
What can they do now?
Dura Ace can perhaps confirm but if you U-Turn too often and too fast, the wheels are likely to come off.
ABS doesn't work in reverse on a surprisingly large number of cars so bang limiter in reverse, then full lock while max effort braking. Very, very quick u turn and a gratifyingly large cloud of smoke. Best mastered in hire cars without spouse in the passenger seat (voice of experience).
Starmer should probably use that phrase at the next PMQs.
Hmmm.. I would be tempted. But that would be politicising a comment by the King. Why take the risk of creating such a row? It's not as if Starmer is exactly short of opportunities for attacking the government.
Additionally, he could go for "Serious politics" - #DearOhDear sounds like a Boris thing.
If their policies have been ridiculed and are in tattered, what does that say about ant principles and any mandate.
What can they do now?
Dura Ace can perhaps confirm but if you U-Turn too often and too fast, the wheels are likely to come off.
ABS doesn't work in reverse on a surprisingly large number of cars so bang limiter in reverse, then full lock while max effort braking. Very, very quick u turn and a gratifyingly large cloud of smoke. Best mastered in hire cars without spouse in the passenger seat (voice of experience).
Alternatively, a number of UK military vehicles from the 1950s have a reversing lever. Instead of reverse as a separate gear, this reverses the whole gear box. In the case of the Alvis Saracen, you can be trundling along in 4th gear (out of 6), take your foot off the gas. Then select reverse. and put your foot down. Only recommended if you own the vehicle and are not shy of taking it to bits, though.
LOL. The finances are somewhat obscure, since Starlink is still essentially in startup mode. It only becomes profitable when they achieve much greater scale. But it's probably true that it's quite costly (and something of a commercial distraction) for them to supply Ukraine at essentially consumer rates.
SpaceX is not asking to recoup past expenses, but also cannot fund the existing system indefinitely *and* send several thousand more terminals that have data usage up to 100X greater than typical households. This is unreasonable. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1580802376973230080
The more significant point it that the system is absolutely essential to the Ukraine war effort, and the amount of money in dispute is a rounding error in what the west is spending in Ukraine.
It needs sorting out asap.
If the history of these sort of services is a guide it will only become profitable when it goes bust and someone else gets the assets for a song.
The future profitability I think depends to quite a large extent on his getting the big rocket working, in order to be able to put larger constellation satellites (than the existing hardware) in orbit cheaply. He's unlikely to have any really serious competition until somewhen else gets reusable rockets working reliably. And the service is an excellent one for quite a large market segment.
The pitch is likely to be that the policies were right, but KamiKwaze didn't sell them well enough...
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 2m Will Liz Truss line be:
a) Kwasi didn’t show her his budget b) He showed her a pretend budget c) He showed her the actual budget, she said “this is a mistake”, and he replied “shut up you fool!” d) He showed her the actual budget, she said “great” then fell and hit her head
That is pathetic. I am sacking my chancellor for delivering the budget that I have shouted from the rooftops as being a fantastic new direction for my government and integral to our growth plans.
To me it signifies she's prepared to be a figurehead PM. The trouble with this is a figurehead needs good PR skills to justify their existence.
That is pathetic. I am sacking my chancellor for delivering the budget that I have shouted from the rooftops as being a fantastic new direction for my government and integral to our growth plans.
What did you expect?
What would have been more expedient politically (assuming she is sacking him) is a voluntary resignation, or hanging on to a bigger reshuffle.
"The think tanks and forecasters who want taxes up tell us the deficit will otherwise be too big. If they have their way they will put us into a longer and deeper downturn which will mean a higher deficit, not a lower.
Over the last 2 years the OBR has massively over forecast the budget deficit and used these wrong forecasts to push a Chancellor into higher taxes. More accurate forecasting would conclude now that a lower business tax rate would be better for growth and for total tax revenue."
The last two decades has seen corporate tax rates slashed around the world. It has also seen the slowest GDP growth in the post WW2 era.
It is by no means clear that there is any correlation between corporate tax rates and growth.
Here you go...
Very selective selection.
It's the G7 + Spain.
That doesn't sound very selective to me.
it is indeed selective - since it eliminates small tax havens which appear to be @Luckyguy1983 's favoured model for economic policy.
Also the headline rates can be very deceptive. Only a clown, without access to vaguely competent lawyer and accountant, pays anything like the full US rate, for example.
Of course, and the US to some extent has its own internal tax havens.
The UK has a fair number of now foreign owned, large fairly low growth companies (utilities, for example), and gifting them low tax rates so that they can remit greater dividends overseas is not a very smart policy. And that bit of your proposed corporate tax cut certainly isn't going to grow the economy. Borrowing money to do so is nuts.
Raise the rates. If they want low Corp tax, give them huge allowances for investment in productivity - equipment and real training.
Oh dear, Comrade Greg Hands, who was on Today this morning demonstrating that he had been successfully re-educated to recant the things he said when he was a Rishi supporter, is going to have to be re-re-educated.
Greg Hands now gets to drive the clown car for the day.....
LOL. The finances are somewhat obscure, since Starlink is still essentially in startup mode. It only becomes profitable when they achieve much greater scale. But it's probably true that it's quite costly (and something of a commercial distraction) for them to supply Ukraine at essentially consumer rates.
SpaceX is not asking to recoup past expenses, but also cannot fund the existing system indefinitely *and* send several thousand more terminals that have data usage up to 100X greater than typical households. This is unreasonable. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1580802376973230080
The more significant point it that the system is absolutely essential to the Ukraine war effort, and the amount of money in dispute is a rounding error in what the west is spending in Ukraine.
It needs sorting out asap.
If the history of these sort of services is a guide it will only become profitable when it goes bust and someone else gets the assets for a song.
The future profitability I think depends to quite a large extent on his getting the big rocket working, in order to be able to put larger constellation satellites (than the existing hardware) in orbit cheaply. He's unlikely to have any really serious competition until somewhen else gets reusable rockets working reliably. And the service is an excellent one for quite a large market segment.
All that is tangential to Ukraine, of course.
OneWeb has a fraction of the capacity, but is in the early stages of going into operation.
Bezos has bought virtually all the non-SpaceX launches for years to come, to loft his constellation. Except he hasn't produced a single satellite yet. Given the issues that SpaceX/Starlink had with getting the production line going for their satellites - simply throwing money at it is unlikely to be successful. Much as Bezos orbital launch plans have stagnated, despite vast sums of money expended.
I think Hunt should accept the job. Right now he's in no man's land and he still has ambitions to get the top job becoming chancellor isn't a bad shout.
The pitch is likely to be that the policies were right, but KamiKwaze didn't sell them well enough...
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 2m Will Liz Truss line be:
a) Kwasi didn’t show her his budget b) He showed her a pretend budget c) He showed her the actual budget, she said “this is a mistake”, and he replied “shut up you fool!” d) He showed her the actual budget, she said “great” then fell and hit her head
e) My energy support package, the most generous in Europe, means a typical bill will be capped at £2500 this year.
If you think about it - either they were going to face it down because that is what senior politicians do but ironically, by sacking Kwasi she has shown that senior politicians can actually be got rid of.
She herself has broken the spell of infallibility of her own government and of herself.
Oh dear, Comrade Greg Hands, who was on Today this morning demonstrating that he had been successfully re-educated to recant the things he said when he was a Rishi supporter, is going to have to be re-re-educated.
He's had plenty of experience under Boris defending the indefensible. Shouldn't be a problem.
Is that the shortest stint as Chancellor oE? Not including any emergency stop gap chancellors
I believe the shortest stint was the unfortunate George Canning, who held the role alongside being shortest serving PM (it wasn't that uncommon to hold both posts at the time).
The pitch is likely to be that the policies were right, but KamiKwaze didn't sell them well enough...
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 2m Will Liz Truss line be:
a) Kwasi didn’t show her his budget b) He showed her a pretend budget c) He showed her the actual budget, she said “this is a mistake”, and he replied “shut up you fool!” d) He showed her the actual budget, she said “great” then fell and hit her head
e) Kwasi's sacking is all Putin's fault and isn't the price cap great.
Maybe the IT reduction from 20% to 19% goes too? Maybe worth £5bn a year to the Treasury? Liz can say 'we have reversed the NI increase and we are helping you with energy'.
If there are to be more reversals of the mini budget then its best to get them over with in one go!
I think that's more of an anti-BJP vote - the Labour candidate was reported to be a bit too Narendra Modi-ish for some voters.
An Indian friend showed me a picture of the RSS marching. They were all wearing black shorts. I laughed so hard, that it took several minutes before I could explain why it was so brilliant.
I suspect voters will see that this move is desperate and unfair and it is her mess not his.
We shall see this weekend.
I think that, if it creates the sense that the moment of crisis has passed, then you'd see a slow drift back to the Tories as people's anger and panic cooled.
However, it also depends as to what other events occur over the next several weeks. Plenty more opportunity to make mistakes and upset the voters again.
I suspect voters will see that this move is desperate and unfair and it is her mess not his.
We shall see this weekend.
The trouble is that it may not fully calm the markets either. Once confidence has been lost, it's extremely hard to regain it.
Not sure that's right, Richard.
My understanding is that it was the lack of numbers that spooked the markets. Tax cuts were proposed without any plan to show how they were being paid for unless it was just more debt. I think once the city can see some credible numbers it will be calmed, even if doesn't particularly like the policies. As ever, it can cope with bad news, or good news, but it cannot cope with surprises and uncertainty.
Well if Kwasi Kwarteng is off, nothing could demonstrate the vitality of Liz Truss's premiership better than if she were to appoint the dessicated husk that is John Redwood as her new Chancellor of the Exchequer. https://twitter.com/PeterMannionMP/status/1580874238222684160
Was there ever an explanation as to why the tax cut package had to be announced a few weeks ago, and not at the budget where these sort of things should be announced?
If you think about it - either they were going to face it down because that is what senior politicians do but ironically, by sacking Kwasi she has shown that senior politicians can actually be got rid of.
She herself has broken the spell of infallibility of her own government and of herself.
Reports of Kwarteng sacking have not eased backbench fury at Liz Truss.
Tory MP to @SamCoatesSky: "The idea that the Prime Minister can just scapegoat her Chancellor and move on is deluded. This is her vision. She signed off on every detail and she defended it"
"The think tanks and forecasters who want taxes up tell us the deficit will otherwise be too big. If they have their way they will put us into a longer and deeper downturn which will mean a higher deficit, not a lower.
Over the last 2 years the OBR has massively over forecast the budget deficit and used these wrong forecasts to push a Chancellor into higher taxes. More accurate forecasting would conclude now that a lower business tax rate would be better for growth and for total tax revenue."
The last two decades has seen corporate tax rates slashed around the world. It has also seen the slowest GDP growth in the post WW2 era.
It is by no means clear that there is any correlation between corporate tax rates and growth.
Here you go...
Very selective selection.
It's the G7 + Spain.
That doesn't sound very selective to me.
it is indeed selective - since it eliminates small tax havens which appear to be @Luckyguy1983 's favoured model for economic policy.
Also the headline rates can be very deceptive. Only a clown, without access to vaguely competent lawyer and accountant, pays anything like the full US rate, for example.
Of course, and the US to some extent has its own internal tax havens.
The UK has a fair number of now foreign owned, large fairly low growth companies (utilities, for example), and gifting them low tax rates so that they can remit greater dividends overseas is not a very smart policy. And that bit of your proposed corporate tax cut certainly isn't going to grow the economy. Borrowing money to do so is nuts.
Raise the rates. If they want low Corp tax, give them huge allowances for investment in productivity - equipment and real training.
Which is to an extent what Sunak was proposing.
Higher corporation tax in other countries is a Biden demand. He demanded it clearly and unequivocally when he took office, and his Ministers pushed it in their visits to the UK and presumably elsewhere. We have ample evidence that the US is seeking to dictate not just our foreign policy but our domestic policy too; it is deeply problematical and it will need to be tackled (a challenge that makes Brexit look like a cake walk).
Maybe the IT reduction from 20% to 19% goes too? Maybe worth £5bn a year to the Treasury? Liz can say 'we have reversed the NI increase and we are helping you with energy'.
If there are to be more reversals of the mini budget then its best to get them over with in one go!
That one was baked in, so it'll probably stay. The only change on it is it was b/f a year.
He would be mad. Literally mad to saddle himself to this drowning wreck.
Not sure. It gets Hunt's name in the frame for the next leadership contest, and the Chancellor's salary for a month or so.
The first point is fine, but Jeremy Hunt is rich as Croesus mainly due to his involvement in Hotcourses. He was the richest cabinet member at one time. So the money is chump change.
Was there ever an explanation as to why the tax cut package had to be announced a few weeks ago, and not at the budget where these sort of things should be announced?
Comments
She has to go.
The UK has a fair number of now foreign owned, large fairly low growth companies (utilities, for example), and gifting them low tax rates so that they can remit greater dividends overseas is not a very smart policy. And that bit of your proposed corporate tax cut certainly isn't going to grow the economy.
Borrowing money to do so is nuts.
Edit: no odds with Smarkets, 1.33 with BF.
Can't lay Reeves either. I'm kicking myself for not being quicker off the mark with this.
What are they now?
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
6m
Liz Truss has gone mad.
Edited!
@David_K_Clark
·
7m
Replying to
@DPJHodges
Of course none of this is a surprise to those of us who said she was completely unfit for office. 😉
https://twitter.com/David_K_Clark/status/1580870402733379584
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/13/ann-king-video-abuse-reigate-grange-care-home-surrey
I would have thought that paying a fortune for a care home would protect against this kind of thing - you'd imagine the care staff would be on decent salaries and actually picked for wanting to do the job and having some ability to do it, but apparently not.
North Evington (Leicester) council by-election result:
CON: 49.6% (+32.7)
GRN: 25.8% (+20.0)
LAB: 22.5% (-49.8)
LDEM: 1.4% (-3.5)
TUSC: 0.6% (+0.6)
Votes cast: 6,934
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Or could it be Rees-Mogg!?
I suspect voters will see that this move is desperate and unfair and it is her mess not his.
We shall see this weekend.
Favourable 15%
Unfavourable 27%
Neutral 27%
Don’t know 31%
NET Favourability -12
The @SavantaComRes team have given me a 3pm deadline to decide whether to include him in October's or not.
https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1580872458508255232
It's just getting more and more strange and stupid by the day.
Additionally, he could go for "Serious politics" - #DearOhDear sounds like a Boris thing.
It may be a while before the polls also respond though.
Being Ukrainian actually in the topic of StarLinks, I want to tell you some based facts re starlinks in Ukraine.🧵
https://twitter.com/dim0kq/status/1580827171903635456?s=20&t=MkaXBQY-DL9hkbdQ5rgJfA
Too far gone.
He's the fall guy, and takes some of the blame, but its her policies which he carried out.
She's the problem, not him.
I need to mop up the coffee I spat out
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1580872968225185796
You put the Rees-Mogg in
Out, in, out, in
Economy in the bin
You do the hokey cokey
And u-turns all round
That's what Truss's all about
Or is that beyond repair?
He's unlikely to have any really serious competition until somewhen else gets reusable rockets working reliably. And the service is an excellent one for quite a large market segment.
All that is tangential to Ukraine, of course.
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
2m
Will Liz Truss line be:
a) Kwasi didn’t show her his budget
b) He showed her a pretend budget
c) He showed her the actual budget, she said “this is a mistake”, and he replied “shut up you fool!”
d) He showed her the actual budget, she said “great” then fell and hit her head
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1580873391371739136
My contact wrt Kwasi: "Won't save her".
Bezos has bought virtually all the non-SpaceX launches for years to come, to loft his constellation. Except he hasn't produced a single satellite yet. Given the issues that SpaceX/Starlink had with getting the production line going for their satellites - simply throwing money at it is unlikely to be successful. Much as Bezos orbital launch plans have stagnated, despite vast sums of money expended.
She herself has broken the spell of infallibility of her own government and of herself.
She's out. Or will be.
Shouldn't be a problem.
He may be relieved of both his records shortly.
Is Kwarteng getting sacked
If there are to be more reversals of the mini budget then its best to get them over with in one go!
However, it also depends as to what other events occur over the next several weeks. Plenty more opportunity to make mistakes and upset the voters again.
My understanding is that it was the lack of numbers that spooked the markets. Tax cuts were proposed without any plan to show how they were being paid for unless it was just more debt. I think once the city can see some credible numbers it will be calmed, even if doesn't particularly like the policies. As ever, it can cope with bad news, or good news, but it cannot cope with surprises and uncertainty.
Remove the uncertainty, and stability returns.
https://twitter.com/PeterMannionMP/status/1580874238222684160
Tory MP to @SamCoatesSky: "The idea that the Prime Minister can just scapegoat her Chancellor and move on is deluded. This is her vision. She signed off on every detail and she defended it"
https://twitter.com/TomLarkinSky/status/1580874249920618496