Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Just 30% of GE2019 CON voters say Truss would be “best PM” – politicalbetting.com

12345679»

Comments

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Scott_xP said:

    If MPs do pull the rug, they should beware the wrath of the Party membership https://twitter.com/PigsAndPolling/status/1580647732800237570

    How will this party membership wrath manifest itself? (Serious question! - they've nowhere left to go I'd have thought). Surely it's the wrath of the vast majority of the population they should be more worried about? https://twitter.com/joeyfjones/status/1580650423316537344

    Who gives a fuck about the Tory membership?
    Actuarily, they’ll be dead within weeks.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Liz Truss is only in the fifth week of her premiership but doubts are growing about whether she can survive the year, let alone lead the UK Conservatives into the next general election due by January 2025 https://trib.al/i5kNQxn
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    TMay polled 17% twice, both with BXP leads on 26%.

    Once with YG on 10/6/19
    Once with Opinium on 30/5/19

    Overall she polled sub 20% on seven occasions, once on 9/5/19, five in the 10 days from 29/5/19 to her resignation on 7/6/19, and finally the post resignation YG above.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Scott_xP said:

    Things must be getting critical - the Telegraph is printing a runners and riders column…https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/runners-riders-pm-liz-truss-ousted-tory-leader/

    Including neither Hunt nor Hat, the two candidates relatively untainted by association, not actually insane, some claim to be a safe pair of hands and speak in more or less meaningful sentences.

    The decent one in the DTel list is Badenoch; but I think it is fair to say that this is not the moment for someone so inexperienced. Next time.

  • Shameful from Israel, they are worse than France.

    Israel’s Iron Dome air defense, which boasts a 90 percent success rate against rockets fired against it, will stay out of Ukraine’s reach, experts said, as Jerusalem seeks to maintain strategic relations with Russia in Syria and other hot spots.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/12/ukraine-russia-israel-iron-dome/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723
    Scott_xP said:
    Split and GE. Hurrah!! Bring it on. Bring it on.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Liz Truss is only in the fifth week of her premiership but doubts are growing about whether she can survive the year, let alone lead the UK Conservatives into the next general election due by January 2025 https://trib.al/i5kNQxn

    LOL.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723
    I missed this one:


    Giles Wilkes
    @Gilesyb
    ·
    9h
    Anyone interested in U-Turns - is this another one?

    22 Sep: Truss abolishes Johnson's National Science and Technology Council https://standard.co.uk/news/politics/liz-truss-boris-johnson-prime-minister-national-security-council-rishi-sunak-b1027800.html

    12 October: "New National Science and Technology Council established" - chaired by Kwarteng
    https://gov.uk/government/news/new-national-science-and-technology-council-established
    ???

    https://twitter.com/Gilesyb/status/1580501955041906690
  • PJHPJH Posts: 645

    Has there ever been such a fall from grace in such a short time as Truss

    Just go and take Kwarteng with you

    Or

    Conservative mps act now and replace them both without delay

    Sorry Tories, you spent a year plotting to replace an unsuitable leader who was at least vaguely enacting the manifesto he was elected on. Then finally you managed to force him out, spent 3 months choosing the next leader from a choice of 8 (was it?) candidates, and now you want to dump that person straight away. And carry on running the country? Get real.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Scott_xP said:

    If MPs do pull the rug, they should beware the wrath of the Party membership https://twitter.com/PigsAndPolling/status/1580647732800237570

    How will this party membership wrath manifest itself? (Serious question! - they've nowhere left to go I'd have thought). Surely it's the wrath of the vast majority of the population they should be more worried about? https://twitter.com/joeyfjones/status/1580650423316537344

    Who gives a fuck about the Tory membership?
    Actuarily, they’ll be dead within weeks.
    Who gave them a vote in the first place? Bring back the men (and perhaps now women) in grey suits.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    Shameful from Israel, they are worse than France.

    Israel’s Iron Dome air defense, which boasts a 90 percent success rate against rockets fired against it, will stay out of Ukraine’s reach, experts said, as Jerusalem seeks to maintain strategic relations with Russia in Syria and other hot spots.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/12/ukraine-russia-israel-iron-dome/

    On the other hand it does rather have a whiff of 1917 on the Eastern front.

    https://twitter.com/rendeiro_silva/status/1580533373831122948?t=h61OQI_6XoBjWGVA49f0Ag&s=19
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I don’t think we’ve ever seen such a chaotic government.

    Not during Theresa’s Brexit zugzwang, and not during Johnson’s shake-hands-and-nearly-die-of-Covid omnishambles.

    For some reason, governance really plummeted into the toilet some time in 2016 onwards.

    I wonder why.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    The markets have started to look better again have they not? Admittedly I haven't checked since mid-afternoon. Of course the problem with this is it's all predicated on the assumption that the government's plans will be abandoned. The danger is that Truss and Kwarteng may then gain some false confidence from the picture.

    I asked this earlier:

    I don't profess to understand stock market sentiment but can someone explain to me why an inflation report which continues to show the US economy running very strong and which looks set to lead to a 75 base point rise in US interest rates when the Fed next meets, has caused a near 2% rally in US stocks?

    Would I be wrong in assuming only a few stock market investors give any coherent thought to what's going on in the wider economy and the majority simply follow the market like sheep?

    I could see that at Brighton Racecourse today - there are punters who simply follow the money. If a horse is being backed, they back it because they assume those who are backing the horse "know" something.

    If that assumption predominates in the modern stock market that would explain a lot.
    All financial markets are like panicking sheep. They react slowly initially, then over react. Then over-compensate. They will behave irrationally, and sometimes destroy good companies as a result. That irrationality can continue longer than they can remain solvent.

    Best to stick to fundamentals, avoid companies financed by debt and stick to what you can afford to lose.

    Good advice. I’ve sent to to pension fund managers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    The Telegraph Lobby team has spent all day talking to Tory MPs.

    Lots of leadership musings, each has a different theory. But one common thread emerging…

    If (very much an if) a change happens, members will likely be cut out and MPs will pick.

    Our read:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/tories-mull-michael-howard-style-coronation-new-leader/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Supreme Court Rejects Donald Trump's Appeal On Classified Mar-A-Lago Docs

    The court rejected Trump's effort aimed at blocking prosecutors from using classified documents in a prosecution of the former president.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/supreme-court-rejects-trump-appeal-mar-a-lago_n_634862aae4b03e8038d1bdb9

    Lock him up! Lock him up!.....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723
    PJH said:

    Has there ever been such a fall from grace in such a short time as Truss

    Just go and take Kwarteng with you

    Or

    Conservative mps act now and replace them both without delay

    Sorry Tories, you spent a year plotting to replace an unsuitable leader who was at least vaguely enacting the manifesto he was elected on. Then finally you managed to force him out, spent 3 months choosing the next leader from a choice of 8 (was it?) candidates, and now you want to dump that person straight away. And carry on running the country? Get real.
    How safe is Kemi's seat?

    Will she be able to rebuild them from a sub 100 seats?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Scott_xP said:

    The Telegraph Lobby team has spent all day talking to Tory MPs.

    Lots of leadership musings, each has a different theory. But one common thread emerging…

    If (very much an if) a change happens, members will likely be cut out and MPs will pick.

    Our read:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/tories-mull-michael-howard-style-coronation-new-leader/

    No shit, Telegraph....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723

    Scott_xP said:

    Liz Truss is only in the fifth week of her premiership but doubts are growing about whether she can survive the year, let alone lead the UK Conservatives into the next general election due by January 2025 https://trib.al/i5kNQxn

    LOL.
    Yeh, there's a few doubts. Just little ones. Nothing major. Just a few wild folk riffing out loud.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,965
    Scott_xP said:
    Ben Wallace already at the top of the list amongst plotters as a potential unity candidate if a coronation
    https://order-order.com/2022/10/13/rebels-told-to-rein-their-fing-necks-in-or-f-off/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    One for Leon.

    The perfect example of American food shopping.

    -Millions of SKU's,but no choice, just the same thing done slightly different.

    -Terrible packaging that makes it look vile.

    -Extremely poor quality and unhealthy.


    https://twitter.com/tomfgoodwin/status/1580648332120461313?s=46&t=6TUpOusU8ZQY6t-0qL-11A

    https://twitter.com/mikebradleymke/status/1580381366314598401?s=46&t=6TUpOusU8ZQY6t-0qL-11A

    Sounds like current Tory policies.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    stodge said:


    Where did the horse finish? 🙂

    It was a quiet afternoon punting-wise. The three odds on favs all obliged and a couple of small punts in the handicaps were lost but it was a dismal afternoon and it was a long walk back to the station though always easier downhill.

    BROXI in the penultimate race did me a big favour - I always like backing Dean Ivory sprinters at Brighton. The change in ground (went from good/firm to soft) threw out a lot of plans.

    Can't decide between Windsor and Plumpton on Monday.
    I really meant in terms of following the money is no sure fire winning strategy for a stock market? But, still a good email from you. I’m going to post 4 betting tips on Saturday morning as a jump season warm up for my trip to Cheltenham where there are some good long races on the cards. Would you be concentrating on the Ascot card Saturday.

    Weather for Monday.
    https://www.yr.no/nb/værvarsel/timetabell/2-2633842/Storbritannia/England/Windsor and Maidenhead/Windsor?i=4
    I plan to spring clean the kitchen cupboards 🧽



  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    edited October 2022

    I have a joke about the benefit of Liz Truss's mini-budget.

    But 99% of you won't get it

    And the other 1% think that joke isn't funny any more.

    It's too close to home, too near the bone....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ben Wallace already at the top of the list amongst plotters as a potential unity candidate if a coronation
    https://order-order.com/2022/10/13/rebels-told-to-rein-their-fing-necks-in-or-f-off/
    Despite being an early Wallace tipster, I think this would be a mistake.

    He’s entirely untested at the highest level.
    Nobody knows who he is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,965
    edited October 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ben Wallace already at the top of the list amongst plotters as a potential unity candidate if a coronation
    https://order-order.com/2022/10/13/rebels-told-to-rein-their-fing-necks-in-or-f-off/
    Despite being an early Wallace tipster, I think this would be a mistake.

    He’s entirely untested at the highest level.
    Nobody knows who he is.
    Not Truss and not Rishi and not Penny and not Suella which is more than enough for most Tory MPs now. Plus he has been Defence Secretary for years which is a big issue at present.

    He could make Rishi or Hunt Chancellor
  • PJHPJH Posts: 645

    PJH said:

    Has there ever been such a fall from grace in such a short time as Truss

    Just go and take Kwarteng with you

    Or

    Conservative mps act now and replace them both without delay

    Sorry Tories, you spent a year plotting to replace an unsuitable leader who was at least vaguely enacting the manifesto he was elected on. Then finally you managed to force him out, spent 3 months choosing the next leader from a choice of 8 (was it?) candidates, and now you want to dump that person straight away. And carry on running the country? Get real.
    How safe is Kemi's seat?

    Will she be able to rebuild them from a sub 100 seats?
    Are we sure she's no more bonkers than Ms Truss and Mr Kwarteng? Nothing I've seen suggests she isn't.

    However inept, come election day the Tories will never go sub-100 thanks to the blue rosette on a donkey voters
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    The markets have started to look better again have they not? Admittedly I haven't checked since mid-afternoon. Of course the problem with this is it's all predicated on the assumption that the government's plans will be abandoned. The danger is that Truss and Kwarteng may then gain some false confidence from the picture.

    I asked this earlier:

    I don't profess to understand stock market sentiment but can someone explain to me why an inflation report which continues to show the US economy running very strong and which looks set to lead to a 75 base point rise in US interest rates when the Fed next meets, has caused a near 2% rally in US stocks?

    Would I be wrong in assuming only a few stock market investors give any coherent thought to what's going on in the wider economy and the majority simply follow the market like sheep?

    I could see that at Brighton Racecourse today - there are punters who simply follow the money. If a horse is being backed, they back it because they assume those who are backing the horse "know" something.

    If that assumption predominates in the modern stock market that would explain a lot.
    All financial markets are like panicking sheep. They react slowly initially, then over react. Then over-compensate. They will behave irrationally, and sometimes destroy good companies as a result. That irrationality can continue longer than they can remain solvent.

    Best to stick to fundamentals, avoid companies financed by debt and stick to what you can afford to lose.

    Good advice. I’ve sent to to pension fund managers.
    The problem is that they get bonuses for outperforming their benchmarks, and can only do it by being reckless. It is possible to get away with it a lot of the time, but sooner or later get caught. That is why these systemic risks keep recurring.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Scott_xP said:

    The Telegraph Lobby team has spent all day talking to Tory MPs.

    Lots of leadership musings, each has a different theory. But one common thread emerging…

    If (very much an if) a change happens, members will likely be cut out and MPs will pick.

    Our read:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/tories-mull-michael-howard-style-coronation-new-leader/

    The members will resign in that case.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 The former Daily Mail editor’s name was left off a list of candidates sent for King’s approval this week, The Telegraph can disclose https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/paul-dacre-peerage-set-delayed-end-year/?utm_content=politics&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1665688780-2

    It takes a heart of stone...
    Former Labour Deputy Watson blocked as well, for his crimes setting police on innocent people using the worst smear ever.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Andy_JS said:

    The members will resign in that case.

    The members are already resigning.

    How many PB Tories have given up now?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Telegraph Lobby team has spent all day talking to Tory MPs.

    Lots of leadership musings, each has a different theory. But one common thread emerging…

    If (very much an if) a change happens, members will likely be cut out and MPs will pick.

    Our read:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/tories-mull-michael-howard-style-coronation-new-leader/

    The members will resign in that case.
    Is that another plan?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ben Wallace already at the top of the list amongst plotters as a potential unity candidate if a coronation
    https://order-order.com/2022/10/13/rebels-told-to-rein-their-fing-necks-in-or-f-off/
    Despite being an early Wallace tipster, I think this would be a mistake.

    He’s entirely untested at the highest level.
    Nobody knows who he is.
    Yes, but he could be the cosplay Major to Truss's cosplay Thatcher. Rising without trace, and without making enemies as the perfect compromise candidate.

    Good value for PM on Jan 1
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Wallace would obviously be miles better than Truss but he won't connect anywhere near as well with the public as Mordaunt would.

    The lack of basic common sense amongst MPs is breathtaking.

    Stand back and think for literally 5 seconds. Who will appeal most to voters - Wallace or Mordaunt? It is blindingly obvious.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Telegraph Lobby team has spent all day talking to Tory MPs.

    Lots of leadership musings, each has a different theory. But one common thread emerging…

    If (very much an if) a change happens, members will likely be cut out and MPs will pick.

    Our read:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/tories-mull-michael-howard-style-coronation-new-leader/

    The members will resign in that case.
    Good. It should be a proscribed organisation.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Oh, look, he's still the Chancellor...

    Chancellor @kwasikwarteng met with @secyellen in Washington D.C. where they discussed shared global economic challenges and the importance of the continued UK and US relationship in the face of Russian aggression in Ukraine. https://twitter.com/hmtreasury/status/1580655554086653952/photo/1
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    So… thought experiment. You wake up tomorrow You’re Liz Truss. What do you do?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest PeoplePolling has:

    Tories: 19%
    Lab: 53%

    Another new record gap and the first time the Tories have been in the teens.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/just-nine-per-cent-have-favourable-view-liz-truss/

    Tories did briefly drop to 17% in 2019 but that was when the Brexit Party was on 26% - it was just a straight transfer of right-wing votes that came back quickly.

    For context I can only see 16 polls ever (all from 1993-1997) when there was a bigger lead for one party. And polling methodology then was systematically biased to Labour.

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1580642220612296704

    The worst poll Major got was C18.5 L 62 in January 1995. So not quite touched the bottom yet.
    I didn't think Starmer could top Blair, but he really looks like doing so. There are going to be seats turning red all over shire England.
    A Fox counting chickens!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Tories got 9% at the 2019 Euros IIRC. That's what we are aiming for.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Cheeky tenner on Truss to exit this year.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Jonathan said:

    So… thought experiment. You wake up tomorrow You’re Liz Truss. What do you do?

    Resign.

    Hug my kids and tell them the nightmare is over
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    The markets have started to look better again have they not? Admittedly I haven't checked since mid-afternoon. Of course the problem with this is it's all predicated on the assumption that the government's plans will be abandoned. The danger is that Truss and Kwarteng may then gain some false confidence from the picture.

    I asked this earlier:

    I don't profess to understand stock market sentiment but can someone explain to me why an inflation report which continues to show the US economy running very strong and which looks set to lead to a 75 base point rise in US interest rates when the Fed next meets, has caused a near 2% rally in US stocks?

    Would I be wrong in assuming only a few stock market investors give any coherent thought to what's going on in the wider economy and the majority simply follow the market like sheep?

    I could see that at Brighton Racecourse today - there are punters who simply follow the money. If a horse is being backed, they back it because they assume those who are backing the horse "know" something.

    If that assumption predominates in the modern stock market that would explain a lot.
    All financial markets are like panicking sheep. They react slowly initially, then over react. Then over-compensate. They will behave irrationally, and sometimes destroy good companies as a result. That irrationality can continue longer than they can remain solvent.

    Best to stick to fundamentals, avoid companies financed by debt and stick to what you can afford to lose.

    Sheep are not very good at running away, they often hurt themselves.

    I reckon markets are smarter than you think.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Germany's Ambassador to the UK, Miguel Berger, is "concerned" by Liz Truss's plan to slash taxes, saying his Government is "looking forward" to u-turns which may be unveiled in coming days.

    Watch in full from 10pm ► http://youtu.be/8VC8gFexeZc

    @KateEMcCann | @GermanAmbUK https://twitter.com/FirstEdition/status/1580654899896918017/video/1
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Rishi Sunak seems like a clear Lay for next Conservative leader @4.9 to me?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Jonathan said:

    So… thought experiment. You wake up tomorrow You’re Liz Truss. What do you do?

    Rejoin the LibDems?

    "My work here is complete...."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723
    Scott_xP said:
    Someone should tell them that there wont be 1.2m vacancies in six months.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659
    Scott_xP said:
    The joys of the Brexit that @Pagan2 wanted...
  • .

    Jonathan said:

    So… thought experiment. You wake up tomorrow You’re Liz Truss. What do you do?

    Use your safe word.
    The country's safe word looks like being Starmer... What is Truss's?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    The markets have started to look better again have they not? Admittedly I haven't checked since mid-afternoon. Of course the problem with this is it's all predicated on the assumption that the government's plans will be abandoned. The danger is that Truss and Kwarteng may then gain some false confidence from the picture.

    I asked this earlier:

    I don't profess to understand stock market sentiment but can someone explain to me why an inflation report which continues to show the US economy running very strong and which looks set to lead to a 75 base point rise in US interest rates when the Fed next meets, has caused a near 2% rally in US stocks?

    Would I be wrong in assuming only a few stock market investors give any coherent thought to what's going on in the wider economy and the majority simply follow the market like sheep?

    I could see that at Brighton Racecourse today - there are punters who simply follow the money. If a horse is being backed, they back it because they assume those who are backing the horse "know" something.

    If that assumption predominates in the modern stock market that would explain a lot.
    All financial markets are like panicking sheep. They react slowly initially, then over react. Then over-compensate. They will behave irrationally, and sometimes destroy good companies as a result. That irrationality can continue longer than they can remain solvent.

    Best to stick to fundamentals, avoid companies financed by debt and stick to what you can afford to lose.

    Sheep are not very good at running away, they often hurt themselves.

    I reckon markets are smarter than you think.
    The key is to panic first...
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    In my (limited) experience it’s very difficult to find companies to invest in which aren’t loaded up on debt and/or juicing share values with dubious accounting schemes.

    The best managed companies tend to be those that are private and not ever intending to go public.

    I’d love to buy shares in Aldi, for example…
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Scott_xP said:

    Germany's Ambassador to the UK, Miguel Berger, is "concerned" by Liz Truss's plan to slash taxes, saying his Government is "looking forward" to u-turns which may be unveiled in coming days.

    Watch in full from 10pm ► http://youtu.be/8VC8gFexeZc

    @KateEMcCann | @GermanAmbUK https://twitter.com/FirstEdition/status/1580654899896918017/video/1

    Keep this fools comments. The markets are coming for Germany’s £200Bn plan too soon enough. 😠
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,723
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ben Wallace already at the top of the list amongst plotters as a potential unity candidate if a coronation
    https://order-order.com/2022/10/13/rebels-told-to-rein-their-fing-necks-in-or-f-off/
    Despite being an early Wallace tipster, I think this would be a mistake.

    He’s entirely untested at the highest level.
    Nobody knows who he is.
    Yes, but he could be the cosplay Major to Truss's cosplay Thatcher. Rising without trace, and without making enemies as the perfect compromise candidate.

    Good value for PM on Jan 1
    Hasn't he ruled it out for family reasons?
  • Alistair said:

    Rishi Sunak seems like a clear Lay for next Conservative leader @4.9 to me?

    Yes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    ...
    Taz said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Zugzwang is a perfect term for where Truss and Kwarteng find themselves .

    They have to do something and will suffer whatever they do . It’s quite extraordinary how they’ve managed to back themselves into a corner with no good options .

    Not really. The result of the last 20 years, and especially the last two years, is that governments all over the world have no good options. At least Truss tried to break with the failed consensus, albeit ineptly.
    On that basis we should give Corbyn a go next. He would also ineptly break with the failed consensus. Sometimes things are a consensus because they are the least bad option.
    The problem is, the consensus has clearly failed... so if you're telling me it's the least bad option, we might as well all give up.
    Where has got it right?

    Which developed countries have managed to grow median incomes at anything like the 1945-1990 levels during the last quarter century?

    Or is it that the system isn't broken - it's just that the growth we had in the post-war period was an aberration: a result of not having to share the wealth of the world with developed countries, and where we had a massive tailwind from dwindling dependency ratios.
    Yes. I see no problem with the west (inc the UK) getting gradually poorer in relative terms. I'd see more of a problem if this didn't happen. "Managed decline" gets a bad press but it's a solid and challenging aspiration imo.
    Let me get this right...you as a left wing bien pensant...think there is no problem with people in the uk getting poorer despite the fact several million currently struggle to house, heat and eat? I thought you were meant to be the compassionate side?
    I think the key word that you didn't read was "relatively". He's not calling for people in this country to be poorer in absolute terms. I don't think there is any shame in wishing for global inequality to be reduced, is there? Especially as the current set up involves millions of premature child deaths. I would guess he'd like to see less inequality within the UK too.
    He said managed decline is a good thing, managed decline means we get poorer, please dont try and lie about what he said because he absolutely was advocating declining living standards for the west as a means to reduce global inequality.
    How can I lie about what he said when we can all read it? "I see no problem with the west (inc the UK) getting gradually poorer in relative terms." Please see the last three words. Similarly, "managed decline" has been used many times to describe the UK's postwar economic trajectory - during this period UK living standards have grown hugely so that term does not mean a decline in absolute living standards either.
    In the 70's we had managed decline and people were getting poorer. That is what managed decline looks like. Not just poorer relatively....people were getting poorer absolutely. Same as now. 20 years ago even if they couldnt get a mortgage a couple both working could feed, house, clothe and have money left over for some luxuries if both working. Now they rely on food banks and governement hand outs and still cant make ends meet. Kinablu could take a 10% decline in his relative income as he is reasonably well off. To many in the country a 10% decline in relative income would mean them going hungry and cold. That is what his managed decline will mean
    If I become relatively poorer but absolutely richer then that is a good thing, if it means I am getting richer but a load of people who couldn't afford to feed their kids before are getting richer at a faster pace. You're attacking Kinabalu for things he hasn't said.
    The thing that is making people in this country go hungry and cold is a decade of Tory austerity, plus now the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If you're looking to blame the poor in developing countries I think you're barking up the wrong tree. More than that, it's insulting.
    The thing that is making people poorer in this country is social democrats like you. Stop dipping in their pockets to fund your shibboleths
    You are attributing a lot of power to people who haven't been in government in this country for twelve years.
    It is a shibboleth of the fruitcake tendency that there’s de facto been no real change in government since 1997, indeed all predecessors of Truss are to be damned as “Brownite”.

    See this quote from a Truss loyalist after last night’s 1922 meeting, which castigates…

    “Bitter Rishi supporters seizing on the fact that we had to move quickly to cap people’s energy bills, so didn’t have parliamentary time to work though, due to circumstances. They just want to f*** everyone over to prove their view that only Brownite economics can work. They’re more New Labour than Tory. They should rein their f***ing necks in, or f*** off. They lost because the Tory Party membership is not Brownite.”
    That rare creature, a Truss loyalist. Can’t be many,
    They have an excellent way of expressing themselves, and have captured Rishi supporters to a 't'.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    I am not making another leadership pitch

    "We care about the public."

    Former home secretary @pritipatel tells @BethRigby that her time in government was "focused on delivering our manifesto commitments".

    Read more on this exclusive interview: https://trib.al/Rkox6lq

    #Rigby

    📺 Sky 501, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1580656487625785345/video/1
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Telegraph Lobby team has spent all day talking to Tory MPs.

    Lots of leadership musings, each has a different theory. But one common thread emerging…

    If (very much an if) a change happens, members will likely be cut out and MPs will pick.

    Our read:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/tories-mull-michael-howard-style-coronation-new-leader/

    The members will resign in that case.
    Fuck 'em. They can't be Truss-ted with choosing the PM.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,965

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ben Wallace already at the top of the list amongst plotters as a potential unity candidate if a coronation
    https://order-order.com/2022/10/13/rebels-told-to-rein-their-fing-necks-in-or-f-off/
    Despite being an early Wallace tipster, I think this would be a mistake.

    He’s entirely untested at the highest level.
    Nobody knows who he is.
    Yes, but he could be the cosplay Major to Truss's cosplay Thatcher. Rising without trace, and without making enemies as the perfect compromise candidate.

    Good value for PM on Jan 1
    Hasn't he ruled it out for family reasons?
    https://www.tatler.com/article/ben-wallace-wont-rule-out-standing-for-tory-leadership
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited October 2022
    Scott_xP said:
    The absolute state of those comments on the order-order article. Unbelievable!

    I'm actually beginning to believe that the Conservative Party may be on a death spiral, driven into the abyss by a lunatic membership.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 645
    MikeL said:

    Wallace would obviously be miles better than Truss but he won't connect anywhere near as well with the public as Mordaunt would.

    The lack of basic common sense amongst MPs is breathtaking.

    Stand back and think for literally 5 seconds. Who will appeal most to voters - Wallace or Mordaunt? It is blindingly obvious.

    But could either of them do the job? Neither is as experienced as Truss, I don't think either has been tested much. Mordaunt managed to tie herself in knots in the leadership campaign and I have my doubts about her as a result. Wallace seems OK but he is ex military so as junior minister for Security in the Home Office and Defence Secretary he has been in his comfort zone. Can either of them unite the various warring factions?

    Both are a big risk in my view.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    PJH said:

    Both are a big risk in my view.

    Larry the Cat would be less of a risk than Liz Truss
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,965
    PJH said:

    MikeL said:

    Wallace would obviously be miles better than Truss but he won't connect anywhere near as well with the public as Mordaunt would.

    The lack of basic common sense amongst MPs is breathtaking.

    Stand back and think for literally 5 seconds. Who will appeal most to voters - Wallace or Mordaunt? It is blindingly obvious.

    But could either of them do the job? Neither is as experienced as Truss, I don't think either has been tested much. Mordaunt managed to tie herself in knots in the leadership campaign and I have my doubts about her as a result. Wallace seems OK but he is ex military so as junior minister for Security in the Home Office and Defence Secretary he has been in his comfort zone. Can either of them unite the various warring factions?

    Both are a big risk in my view.
    Wallace would be fine as a dull and boring Douglas Home, low risk, safe pair of hands. Won't win but likely gets a respectable defeat and avoids the landslide defeat Truss is heading for.

    Mordaunt might have a slim chance of a win but her Woke past might also lead to more splits again, the Tory press dislike her and is probably too high risk now.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Senior Conservatives are holding talks about replacing Liz Truss with a joint ticket of Rishi Sunak and Penny Mordaunt as part of a “coronation” by MPs https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-plot-to-replace-truss-with-rishi-sunak-and-penny-mordaunt-wjdfwzzvk?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1665693387-1
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The members will resign in that case.

    The members are already resigning.

    How many PB Tories have given up now?
    That's part of the problem though. Sane members resign, leaving the lunatic fringe in control, leading to a lunatic party. If the party was in opposition that would be bad (see Labour 2015-20); when the party is in government it is catastrophic.

    (Another reason why a change of PM should force a GE).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ben Wallace already at the top of the list amongst plotters as a potential unity candidate if a coronation
    https://order-order.com/2022/10/13/rebels-told-to-rein-their-fing-necks-in-or-f-off/
    And Guido seems to know why he didn't run last time, which given that Liz Truss DID run despite rumours swirling around her, must be pretty serious.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Telegraph Lobby team has spent all day talking to Tory MPs.

    Lots of leadership musings, each has a different theory. But one common thread emerging…

    If (very much an if) a change happens, members will likely be cut out and MPs will pick.

    Our read:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/tories-mull-michael-howard-style-coronation-new-leader/

    The members will resign in that case.
    Fuck 'em. They can't be Truss-ted with choosing the PM.
    Agree.

    I'm absolutely dropping a load of truth bombs in a Red Wall Tory members WhatsApp group I'm in.

    I am not universally popular with my observations.
    I told my former colleagues on the Executive the same before dropping the mic and exiting their Whatsapp group. All the "we must all stand by the new leader through thick and thin" being spouted by regional leaders was utterly clueless.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Alistair said:

    Rishi Sunak seems like a clear Lay for next Conservative leader @4.9 to me?

    I just need Truss to last the year and the next PM not to be either Rishi or Boris and I'm golden
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,965

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ben Wallace already at the top of the list amongst plotters as a potential unity candidate if a coronation
    https://order-order.com/2022/10/13/rebels-told-to-rein-their-fing-necks-in-or-f-off/
    And Guido seems to know why he didn't run last time, which given that Liz Truss DID run despite rumours swirling around her, must be pretty serious.
    He didn't run because his family and he were reluctant at the time, nothing more than that.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Among the general public, 50 per cent want Truss to be ousted. Just 9 per cent think the Conservatives chose the right leader this summer.

    One senior Tory told The Times: “A coronation won’t be that hard to arrange. In 2019 candidates needed eight MPs to get on the ballot paper. This year they needed 20. Next time it will be however high it needs to be for only one candidate to clear it.”

    One Conservative MP who backed Truss throughout the leadership election believes she will be ousted by “Christmas at the latest”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-plot-to-replace-truss-with-rishi-sunak-and-penny-mordaunt-wjdfwzzvk?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1665693387-1
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    MikeL said:

    Wallace would obviously be miles better than Truss but he won't connect anywhere near as well with the public as Mordaunt would.

    The lack of basic common sense amongst MPs is breathtaking.

    Stand back and think for literally 5 seconds. Who will appeal most to voters - Wallace or Mordaunt? It is blindingly obvious.

    But could either of them do the job? Neither is as experienced as Truss, I don't think either has been tested much. Mordaunt managed to tie herself in knots in the leadership campaign and I have my doubts about her as a result. Wallace seems OK but he is ex military so as junior minister for Security in the Home Office and Defence Secretary he has been in his comfort zone. Can either of them unite the various warring factions?

    Both are a big risk in my view.
    Wallace would be fine as a dull and boring Douglas Home, low risk, safe pair of hands. Won't win but likely gets a respectable defeat and avoids the landslide defeat Truss is heading for.

    Mordaunt might have a slim chance of a win but her Woke past might also lead to more splits again, the Tory press dislike her and is probably too high risk now.
    The Daily Mail hate Mordaunt, but they can fuck right off. If Dacre wants that peerage at the end of the year, he can eat crow meantime.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    I am definitely, DEFINITELY not running for leader

    "I put the interests of the country before party politics."

    @pritipatel says her "huge responsibilities as home secretary" meant she was unable to join one of the Tory leadership campaigns earlier this year.

    https://trib.al/Rkox6lq

    #Rigby

    📺 Sky 501, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1580660227887681537/video/1
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    PM Sunak would rescue the India deal.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Another MP said:

    🗣️“Rishi’s people, Penny’s people and the sensible Truss supporters who realise she’s a disaster need to sit down and work out who the unity candidate is. Either Rishi as PM with Penny as his deputy and foreign secretary, or Penny as PM with Rishi as chancellor" https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1580661046477754368/photo/1
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Telegraph Lobby team has spent all day talking to Tory MPs.

    Lots of leadership musings, each has a different theory. But one common thread emerging…

    If (very much an if) a change happens, members will likely be cut out and MPs will pick.

    Our read:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/tories-mull-michael-howard-style-coronation-new-leader/

    The members will resign in that case.
    Good. It should be a proscribed organisation.

    Bit OTT. You may not agree with them, but they are entitled to their views.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Jonathan said:

    PM Sunak would rescue the India deal.

    Why?
  • PJHPJH Posts: 645
    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    MikeL said:

    Wallace would obviously be miles better than Truss but he won't connect anywhere near as well with the public as Mordaunt would.

    The lack of basic common sense amongst MPs is breathtaking.

    Stand back and think for literally 5 seconds. Who will appeal most to voters - Wallace or Mordaunt? It is blindingly obvious.

    But could either of them do the job? Neither is as experienced as Truss, I don't think either has been tested much. Mordaunt managed to tie herself in knots in the leadership campaign and I have my doubts about her as a result. Wallace seems OK but he is ex military so as junior minister for Security in the Home Office and Defence Secretary he has been in his comfort zone. Can either of them unite the various warring factions?

    Both are a big risk in my view.
    Wallace would be fine as a dull and boring Douglas Home, low risk, safe pair of hands. Won't win but likely gets a respectable defeat and avoids the landslide defeat Truss is heading for.

    Mordaunt might have a slim chance of a win but her Woke past might also lead to more splits again, the Tory press dislike her and is probably too high risk now.
    Interesting to read your view on Mordaunt. I think the same, which is why I would probably go for her, but I'm not a Tory, and I think she wouldn't carry the party with her for exactly those reasons.

    I just think Wallace would turn out to be incapable of doing the job. I don't see anything in his favour other than not being any of the others. Perhaps marginally better than Truss's start, but who knows, frankly?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Around “20 to 30” former ministers and senior backbenchers are attempting to find a way for a “council of elders” to tell Truss to quit.

    “Conversations are stepping up,” said one former minister
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Ben Wallace already at the top of the list amongst plotters as a potential unity candidate if a coronation
    https://order-order.com/2022/10/13/rebels-told-to-rein-their-fing-necks-in-or-f-off/
    And Guido seems to know why he didn't run last time, which given that Liz Truss DID run despite rumours swirling around her, must be pretty serious.
    He didn't run because his family and he were reluctant at the time, nothing more than that.

    Perhaps. Not the first time something similar has been suggested.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The joys of the Brexit that @Pagan2 wanted...
    If the country needs immigrants then we can decide to let them in. I don’t see how that’s controversial.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,965
    edited October 2022
    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    MikeL said:

    Wallace would obviously be miles better than Truss but he won't connect anywhere near as well with the public as Mordaunt would.

    The lack of basic common sense amongst MPs is breathtaking.

    Stand back and think for literally 5 seconds. Who will appeal most to voters - Wallace or Mordaunt? It is blindingly obvious.

    But could either of them do the job? Neither is as experienced as Truss, I don't think either has been tested much. Mordaunt managed to tie herself in knots in the leadership campaign and I have my doubts about her as a result. Wallace seems OK but he is ex military so as junior minister for Security in the Home Office and Defence Secretary he has been in his comfort zone. Can either of them unite the various warring factions?

    Both are a big risk in my view.
    Wallace would be fine as a dull and boring Douglas Home, low risk, safe pair of hands. Won't win but likely gets a respectable defeat and avoids the landslide defeat Truss is heading for.

    Mordaunt might have a slim chance of a win but her Woke past might also lead to more splits again, the Tory press dislike her and is probably too high risk now.
    Interesting to read your view on Mordaunt. I think the same, which is why I would probably go for her, but I'm not a Tory, and I think she wouldn't carry the party with her for exactly those reasons.

    I just think Wallace would turn out to be incapable of doing the job. I don't see anything in his favour other than not being any of the others. Perhaps marginally better than Truss's start, but who knows, frankly?
    Why? He is perfectly competent, has done a good job at defence just a bit dull but then so is Starmer.

    Provided he appoints a good Chancellor he will do
  • New thread.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Another MP said:

    🗣️“Rishi’s people, Penny’s people and the sensible Truss supporters who realise she’s a disaster need to sit down and work out who the unity candidate is. Either Rishi as PM with Penny as his deputy and foreign secretary, or Penny as PM with Rishi as chancellor" https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1580661046477754368/photo/1

    That still leaves out the non sensible Truss supporters, loyalist Boris fans, and probably several other factions too.

    The only person who could command a real majority in the Commons at the moment is Wallace, if he leads a coalition of the various Tory party factions with all the "big beasts" invited, and those who turn cabinet down still consulted.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Scott_xP said:

    Around “20 to 30” former ministers and senior backbenchers are attempting to find a way for a “council of elders” to tell Truss to quit.

    “Conversations are stepping up,” said one former minister

    Is beginning to look like a 22 exit in more ways than one.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    actum est de hoc filo

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    If the country needs immigrants then we can decide to let them in. I don’t see how that’s controversial.

    Ask this guy


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,965
    Jonathan said:

    PM Sunak would rescue the India deal.

    Why do we want to rescue it? We export little to India and relaxing visa rules would be toxic in the redwall.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    Jonathan said:

    PM Sunak would rescue the India deal.

    Why?
    I was in India over the summer. The first thing people asked me was how I felt about having an Indian PM. He was a celeb. It was sad to say he wasn’t going to make it. My hunch is if he made it, he would reset India-U.K. relations.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Unity candidates, looking through Tory MPs for possibilities other than Wallace.

    Came up with - Brady, Green, May, Barclay, J.Smith, Hunt, Cox - as people who could fit that bill.
  • Jonathan said:

    So… thought experiment. You wake up tomorrow You’re Liz Truss. What do you do?

    After 15 minutes, I would find myself ejected beside the New Jersey Turnpike.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Jonathan said:

    So… thought experiment. You wake up tomorrow You’re Liz Truss. What do you do?

    Resign, and go for a coffee.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    I can’t believe Cleverly said getting rid of Truss would be bad for
    Scott_xP said:

    Latest PeoplePolling has:

    Tories: 19%
    Lab: 53%

    Another new record gap and the first time the Tories have been in the teens.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/13/just-nine-per-cent-have-favourable-view-liz-truss/

    Tories did briefly drop to 17% in 2019 but that was when the Brexit Party was on 26% - it was just a straight transfer of right-wing votes that came back quickly.

    For context I can only see 16 polls ever (all from 1993-1997) when there was a bigger lead for one party. And polling methodology then was systematically biased to Labour.

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1580642220612296704

    Wow that’s stunning . I thought there was no chance of another poll with worse figures than that infamous YouGov .

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659
    edited October 2022
    The North Evington (Leicester) by-election tonight is an interesting one. The area is heavily Asian, a mixture of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs in that order. The Labour candidate is a supporter of Modi and RSS, with the Tory candidate a close second last time..

    It wouldn't surprise me if the Tory gain here. There are some strange politics in the area at the moment. This area was one of the centres of the recent communal violence.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    edited October 2022
    Jonathan said:

    So… thought experiment. You wake up tomorrow You’re Liz Truss. What do you do?

    I have to decide what is really important to me. If there was one thing, just one thing, that I wanted to achieve as Prime Minister, what would it be, and could I make it happen in the next two years by compromising with my MPs, bringing Sunak back as Chancellor, and ceding control over most of the government's agenda.

    Is there one thing that I can still do that would be worth that humiliation?

    I think I would be able to find that one thing, and find the courage to make that compromise, so that I could rescue something from the wreckage.

    That's what I would do.
This discussion has been closed.