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Liz Truss – the Tory gift to Keir Starmer – politicalbetting.com

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  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 2,995
    On topic, inaccurate anecdata here, but I was visiting family in Doncaster earlier this week and overheard two conversations on public transport (one train, one bus) between folk who didn't strike me as particularly politically engaged talking about how useless they thought Liz Truss was.

    Things can always change in politics (and we on here do often seem stricken by status quo* bias) but I'm starting to think that a view of LT is cementing itself in the popular consciousness.

    *note lack of leading caps
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Just so you know, tomorrow is slag off Kwasi day, while on Saturday, we're doing "be rude about JRM". Make sure you don't miss that!
    Don't tell me they've been slagging off Radiohead too.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    It's not difficult at all. Her policies directly led to a steep rise in mortgage rates. And she indicated there'd be even more of that to come.

    She's going to throw a lot of people out of their homes with her bullshit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    Sorry, thought it was Scryver.
    Lol.
    Who is Scryver ?
    Scryver is one of the nutjob "everything is going according to Russia's amazing plan" blogger/Twitter guys.

    Here's from a recent missive...
    Thanks.
    Wish I hadn't asked now.
  • Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.

    This is Peak Starmer.
    Good morning

    There is only one way this is going and it is not in favour of Sturgeon as Scots return to their labour roots now they have an electable leader
    What Labour roots? Labour have started picking Orangemen as councillors. That would be unheard of in the old days.
    The rise of Starmer's popularity in Scotland is welcome and I expect as he comes closer to office support for labour will grow across Scotland
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    My goodness: that's an extraordinary advert.

    And is clear (and undeniable) evidence that progress really does exist.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    rcs1000 said:

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Just so you know, tomorrow is slag off Kwasi day, while on Saturday, we're doing "be rude about JRM". Make sure you don't miss that!
    Can I write a header being cutting about Cleverly? We need one belittling Braverman too.
  • Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    The Johnson defence was always "I got the big calls right". Most people didn't buy into that, but Brexit and vaccines weren't terrible cards to play when he was caught out telling yet another of his near-daily whoppers. Some people will put up with a LOT based on a semi-rational belief that, when the stakes are high enough, the PM probably won't f*** it up.

    What is Truss' defence? What big calls can she say she's got right? Her only act as PM has been incompetent, entirely self-inflicted economic harm.

    So her charge list isn't as long as the previous PM's - but she has virtually nothing by way of defence.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    DougSeal said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    BoJo was unpopular andnbecomingbmore so over time.

    Truss's entire pitch was ContonuityBoJo (which is why she got the endorsements from BoJovians lile JRM and Dorries) so she has just continued the slide. She's no as an adroit liar as BoJo so its goong worse for her.
    Yes, she has *accelerated* the slide. Shagger used to lie about ephemera. Damaging, anger-inducing but ultimately not threatening to the well-being of most voters. He left office with a terrible negative rating.

    And now we have Mistress Truss. Who killed the Queen. Crashed the pound. Exploded gilt yields and nearly took our pensions with them. Announced a vast inflationary borrowing binge for hedgie tax cuts imperilling anyone with a mortgage.

    And all through this its lie after lie after lie. Won't accept even now hat her plan was a disaster. Or that they did a massive uturn. Then they did a further uturn on part of it to go back to plan A which itself is part responsible for the economic FUBAR. Refuses to admit she is axing public spending and benefits. Despite it being blatantly obvious to all. Using the excuse "we can't reveal the budget" despite secnds before committing to the pensions triple lock.

    Its built on the wreckage of Boris. Only far stupider and more dangerous lies. The only way is down, because even when they drag her from office shortly the downward momentum will be hard to arrest.
    I agreed, as I normally do when you post, with all of what you wrote until you said “killed the Queen” which angered me. That’s out of order. There’s no point me calling out dangerous hyperbolic bullshit on the other side if I don’t call out on my own. And that was unnecessary.
    Oh come on: the Queen meets Truss. HM looks well, exudes charisma.

    And then, a day later, she's dead.

    Are you really telling me that's a coincidence?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912
    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    Euch, that really is from another era.

    Speaking of brilliant Caledonian adverts though, this one was always my favourite. There's probably no Scot in London who hasn't thought about emulating this guy at some point...

    https://youtu.be/SF9sG2bwImc
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    5m
    A month ago if you said this conference season would conclude with a warning from Nadine Dorries that the Truss government is in danger of being too right wing... I confess might not have believed you

    Intriguing straw in the wind scoop from
    @Steven_Swinford
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    TBF to Truss, while it was a complete non sequitur in the context of her conference speech, rewatching that you can understand why she might still be angry about such stuff.

    You first speech as leader is an pretty odd place to air your youthful grievances, though.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    Young Nicola Sturgeon at 0:28.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    BoJo was unpopular andnbecomingbmore so over time.

    Truss's entire pitch was ContonuityBoJo (which is why she got the endorsements from BoJovians lile JRM and Dorries) so she has just continued the slide. She's no as an adroit liar as BoJo so its goong worse for her.
    Yes, she has *accelerated* the slide. Shagger used to lie about ephemera. Damaging, anger-inducing but ultimately not threatening to the well-being of most voters. He left office with a terrible negative rating.

    And now we have Mistress Truss. Who killed the Queen. Crashed the pound. Exploded gilt yields and nearly took our pensions with them. Announced a vast inflationary borrowing binge for hedgie tax cuts imperilling anyone with a mortgage.

    And all through this its lie after lie after lie. Won't accept even now hat her plan was a disaster. Or that they did a massive uturn. Then they did a further uturn on part of it to go back to plan A which itself is part responsible for the economic FUBAR. Refuses to admit she is axing public spending and benefits. Despite it being blatantly obvious to all. Using the excuse "we can't reveal the budget" despite secnds before committing to the pensions triple lock.

    Its built on the wreckage of Boris. Only far stupider and more dangerous lies. The only way is down, because even when they drag her from office shortly the downward momentum will be hard to arrest.
    I agreed, as I normally do when you post, with all of what you wrote until you said “killed the Queen” which angered me. That’s out of order. There’s no point me calling out dangerous hyperbolic bullshit on the other side if I don’t call out on my own. And that was unnecessary.
    Oh come on: the Queen meets Truss. HM looks well, exudes charisma.

    And then, a day later, she's dead.

    Are you really telling me that's a coincidence?
    Since you put it like that…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    TBF to Truss, while it was a complete non sequitur in the context of her conference speech, rewatching that you can understand why she might still be angry about such stuff.

    You first speech as leader is an pretty odd place to air your youthful grievances, though.
    Espoecially as - by then - air travel was long denationalised IIRC. She was complaining about commercial businesses.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884

    CD13 said:

    Truss looks inauthentic because she's putting on an act. The last time I saw that so clearly in a politician was in Gordon Brown. To be fair, he was put in a spot, but the inane grin he produced was embarrassing. Some people aren't made for politics.

    ICYMI Alastair Campbell thinks he has spotted a "tell" when Liz Truss is lying or is asked a question she does not want to answer. Her lips move. No, she swallows hard so her adam's apple moves.
    https://youtu.be/JdR_EfRMveM?t=1316s
    Campbell having excellent knowledge of lying, of course...

    I despise that man. Of all the New Labour people, he was the worst. Even worse than McBride.

    He was also exceptionally competent.
    His hands were all over the dodgy document, sexed up to make the case for going to war. A man with a conscience would accept the role he played in that and the death of the poor David Kelly.
  • Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    It's not difficult at all. Her policies directly led to a steep rise in mortgage rates. And she indicated there'd be even more of that to come.

    She's going to throw a lot of people out of their homes with her bullshit.
    The thing is that before Truss/Kwarteng's ill fated budget, mortgage rates were rising rapidly as interest rates rose worldwide to combat inflation so 4.75% was already priced in but they are responsible for adding upto 1.5% more but from a conservative point of view their stupidity has seen them as being responsible for the whole rise

    Both of them are incompetent, politically stupid, and unfit for the offices they hold

    And they have handed Starmer a very good majority in 24
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    Euch, that really is from another era.

    Speaking of brilliant Caledonian adverts though, this one was always my favourite. There's probably no Scot in London who hasn't thought about emulating this guy at some point...

    https://youtu.be/SF9sG2bwImc
    When was it made? 1985? Got that dirty-collar feel of London at that time.
  • Jonathan said:

    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.

    Pah.. you defended Brown when he was
    clearly unfit to be Prime Minister. Fortunately enough voters thought the same to get rid of him. His nasty little shit trick of reducing the Prime Minister's salary was typical of the man.
    It was Conservative policy to reduce the PM's salary.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    Perhaps 'claiming victimhood' will at some point go out of fashion. My own experience is that people who have overcome a lot of adversity and problems just get on with life and don't really talk about the setbacks and difficulties encountered along the way. I don't think people want to hear it from Truss, particularly not Conservative voters. She will never be able to compete with Labour for the 'victimhood' vote.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    Nadine: ‘If we continue down this path we will be facing a Stephen Harper-type wipeout’
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    edited October 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.

    This is Peak Starmer.
    Good morning

    There is only one way this is going and it is not in favour of Sturgeon as Scots return to their labour roots now they have an electable leader
    What Labour roots? Labour have started picking Orangemen as councillors. That would be unheard of in the old days.
    The rise of Starmer's popularity in Scotland is welcome and I expect as he comes closer to office support for labour will grow across Scotland
    So far though he's taking it from the other British nationalist parties. Not the left of centre ones. A huge change there, remember. At the moment, anyway.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912
    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    Euch, that really is from another era.

    Speaking of brilliant Caledonian adverts though, this one was always my favourite. There's probably no Scot in London who hasn't thought about emulating this guy at some point...

    https://youtu.be/SF9sG2bwImc
    When was it made? 1985? Got that dirty-collar feel of London at that time.
    I think something like that, maybe a couple of years later. I remember it bring in the telly, it is one of the greats from a golden era of Scottish beer adverts - the breweries must have been absolutely minted at the time because those ads were often the best things on the telly!
  • I don't think there's really a way back from here for Truss. However, if I were advising her, it would be to re-brand as a collegiate first among equals.

    That would be a screetching change of direction as she is an ideologue, and has a powerful self-image as a strong leader. But she cannot back that up with her skills and personality. The mismatch between her self-image and the public image is incredibly jarring.

    Because it'd be such a big change and she's not one of life's listeners, I don't think it'll happen. But in terms of persuading her as an advisor, it may be worth reminding her that Thatcher didn't start as peak, 1986-7 Thatcher.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Why don't you write a really positive header about Truss and her first weeks as PM instead of carping about everybody else's efforts?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    edited October 2022

    Nadine: ‘If we continue down this path we will be facing a Stephen Harper-type wipeout’

    You backed her Nadine when it was clear there were better candidates in the race.

    Edit: also does she mean Kim Campbell?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,343

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    There are trickier questions underneath all this. At the moment most of the media is dealing with each pay situation individually and singly, with the usual worthless and uninformative discussions about figures, per cents, living on boiled gravel and so on.

    The truth is that if all employees nationally are paid too little, then both all are and none are. Nurses are as much in competition for preference as everyone else.

    We are getting poorer (as is the world) in that inflation is an indicator of lots of money chasing the same or fewer goods.

    So the real question is which groups get less poor, or richer even, at the expense of which other groups. And why.
  • Nadine: ‘If we continue down this path we will be facing a Stephen Harper-type wipeout’

    You backed her Nadine when it was clear there were better candidates in the race.

    Edit: also does she mean Kim Campbell?
    I'm beginning to think maybe Nadine Dorries isn't the political genius we all definitely reckoned, and perhaps she just is and always has been batsh1t crazy.

    I know it sounds far-fetched, but that's my developing theory.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    Nadine: ‘If we continue down this path we will be facing a Stephen Harper-type wipeout’

    You backed her Nadine when it was clear there were better candidates in the race.

    Edit: also does she mean Kim Campbell?
    I'm beginning to think maybe Nadine Dorries isn't the political genius we all definitely reckoned, and perhaps she just is and always has been batsh1t crazy.

    I know it sounds far-fetched, but that's my developing theory.
    Eating kangaroos' naughty bits in public is not a normal political strategy, it must be said.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    rcs1000 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    My goodness: that's an extraordinary advert.

    And is clear (and undeniable) evidence that progress really does exist.
    A bit like progress with electricity generation from renewables (42% from wind in the UK currently), its easy to forget how much society has improved for the better. Like the boiled frog, the changes seem so small. Yet the past really is another country.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Royale, that's why Truss has self-immolated so extraordinarily. She and KamiKwasi found a way to turn a worldwide problem of high inflation and rising interest rates into a Conservative problem by spooking the markets and leading to predictions of rates rising even more rapidly.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    Euch, that really is from another era.

    Speaking of brilliant Caledonian adverts though, this one was always my favourite. There's probably no Scot in London who hasn't thought about emulating this guy at some point...

    https://youtu.be/SF9sG2bwImc
    When was it made? 1985? Got that dirty-collar feel of London at that time.
    I was walking past the outside of that pub the day they were filming
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    Nadine: ‘If we continue down this path we will be facing a Stephen Harper-type wipeout’

    You backed her Nadine when it was clear there were better candidates in the race.

    Edit: also does she mean Kim Campbell?
    I'm beginning to think maybe Nadine Dorries isn't the political genius we all definitely reckoned, and perhaps she just is and always has been batsh1t crazy.

    I know it sounds far-fetched, but that's my developing theory.
    Having touted her as a future Party leader so long ago, are you beginning to think that Liz Truss just is and always has been batsh1t crazy?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    algarkirk said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    There are trickier questions underneath all this. At the moment most of the media is dealing with each pay situation individually and singly, with the usual worthless and uninformative discussions about figures, per cents, living on boiled gravel and so on.

    The truth is that if all employees nationally are paid too little, then both all are and none are. Nurses are as much in competition for preference as everyone else.

    We are getting poorer (as is the world) in that inflation is an indicator of lots of money chasing the same or fewer goods.

    So the real question is which groups get less poor, or richer even, at the expense of which other groups. And why.
    And, as those who lived through the seventies will recall, it's a fairly self destructive process for the country.

    There's no escaping from the fact that massively higher energy prices have removed wealth from the UK economy. It will be hard for any government to successfully manage; for one as hapless as this, it's likely an impossible task.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    Sorry, thought it was Scryver.
    Lol.
    Who is Scryver ?
    "Everything is going to plan" pro Russian blogger. He's blocked RCS1000

    https://twitter.com/imetatronink
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    Euch, that really is from another era.

    Speaking of brilliant Caledonian adverts though, this one was always my favourite. There's probably no Scot in London who hasn't thought about emulating this guy at some point...

    https://youtu.be/SF9sG2bwImc
    When was it made? 1985? Got that dirty-collar feel of London at that time.
    I think something like that, maybe a couple of years later. I remember it bring in the telly, it is one of the greats from a golden era of Scottish beer adverts - the breweries must have been absolutely minted at the time because those ads were often the best things on the telly!
    Update - the Tennents ad is from 1991, actually, according to this great write up by Londonist.

    https://londonist.com/london/features/stuff-london-i-m-going-for-a-pint-in-edinburgh-remember-this-lager-ad

    Which makes sense as I probably wouldn't have remembered it if it was mid-80s.

    Additional trivia: the actor in it is Irish.

    Also: if his daily commute to Canary wharf involves him getting off at Piccadilly Circus and walking it's perhaps unsurprising that he's had enough of London! These are minor gripes though, it really is a top ad.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    Yeah this is why Truss is toxic. She was going on about how a rise in rates was 'project fear', then provoked a sudden sharp rise in interest rates with her plan to 'borrow money to reduce taxes for the top 1%'. All labour need to do is cut and paste this footage in to minute long videos and they've lost homeowners with significant mortgages. People know it but they just need to be continuously reminded.

    They could also do some other tricks, like getting footage of Lee Anderson going on about how pensioners have 'done their shift' and deserve a pay rise with inflation, whilst public sector workers and benefit claimants get an increase that barely follows earnings.

    Everything the tories try and do they are just digging themselves in to an even bigger hole.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    I let you off on Sunday when you did the same (mainly because every other poster told you that you were being a plank) but don't you realise what an arse you are complaining about the topics the actual owner of the site writes. Do you knock on your neighbours door and complain you don't like the flowers in their garden or the colour of their front door (I suspect you do). It's none of your business. If you don't like it piss off.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Turns out in the UK venues' blanket music licence does require written permission to play music for Keynote Speeches during a party conference.

    https://twitter.com/aepoartis/status/1577895605707456514
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287
    OllyT said:

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Why don't you write a really positive header about Truss and her first weeks as PM instead of carping about everybody else's efforts?
    They are not exactly efforts are they. Truss is crap.comments one afyrr thebothrr Its just one long diatribe of negativity. ..and I am.the one being accused of negativity. . risible.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    eristdoof said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    What she says is awful. Why she says it is really awful. But the part that blows my mind is *how* she says it.

    "You are wooden Prime Minister" someone must have told her. Because suddenly she has this pisstake huge grin on her face half the time which looks not just totally fake but entirely inappropriate with what she is saying.

    And then we have the arms. I commented during her LK interview on Sunday morning that her left arm looked like it was being operated by Frank Oz via a stick. Now it is both arms. Held out front. Moved up and down together.

    Do you remember when BBC News mistook a person who went for a job interview for a pundit and stuck him on air? The poor guy blustered his way through some answers to try not to embarrass people but clearly wasn't who they assumed he was?

    That's Liz Truss that is. Wooden. Inauthentic. Clearly not the Prime Minister because bonkers and embarrassing for anyone who understands politics to look at. But despite being a walking talking parody she IS the PM because giffers were put in the position of choosing and they chose *that*
    She has a childlike quality that sits ill with a great office of state.

    Is it the skinniness? The false bravado? The naïveté? The sense that she is practicing rather than doing? The faltering voice? The agonising gaps as she tries to come up with the right answer? The crush on her favourite teacher Miss Brodie Mrs Thatcher, who she hasn’t realised is in love with Benito? The string of fails in all her subjects? The experimentation? The casual nastiness? The inappropriate arm and face movements?

    Adolescence is awkward. Ask Fibber Johnson.

    Spitting Image, Private Eye or Viz ought to consider a ‘Behind the Bike Shed’ feature with Pretty Liz and her sidekick Beefy Coffey trying out fags to impress the boys. Kalamity Kwasi is seen sneaking off sheepishly, sniffing his fingers.
    I don't think that childlike is a problem.

    The problem is that most children are very inexperienced. Ms Truss also gives the impression that she is inexperienced. This is most evident by her lack of experience at answering akward questions. That is a fatal characteristic for someone who leads a country.
    This is what happens when you have a pro-government media: the “top” (ahem) politicians in the regime never, or rather very rarely, get asked awkward questions.

    Cf Scotland, where the media is 99% anti-government, which is usually seen as a disadvantage for the SNP. But it has one huge advantage: ministers, and people aspiring to be ministers, are asked awkward questions day-in-day-out, for years and years. Sturgeon has been under intense media scrutiny since she was 16. She is now 52. She looks and sounds convincing because she’s been tempered in the heat of an extremely hostile environment, and survived.

    The British media have done a grave disservice to their masters.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739

    Cf Scotland, where the media is 99% anti-government, which is usually seen as a disadvantage for the SNP. But it has one huge advantage: ministers, and people aspiring to be ministers, are asked awkward questions day-in-day-out, for years and years.

    This statement could only be made by somebody who doesn't live in Scotland and doesn't see any Scottish media
  • Hello_CloudsHello_Clouds Posts: 97
    edited October 2022

    Chapeau to Dom Cummings.

    She really is properly bonkers.

    Indeed. D Cummings rightly said L Truss was bonkers because aiming to reconquer Crimea meant nuclear war, WW3. Which half the main posters here too are also pushing for.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    It seems even local Tory Parties are part of the "Coalition Against Growth"

    Will Thorpe
    @withorpe
    ·
    1h
    Tory-controlled East Riding of Yorkshire council has voted overwhelmingly to approve a motion opposing fracking. The area has some of the biggest shale gas reserves in the UK.
    Voting figures:
    FOR: 49
    AGAINST: 0
    ABSTENTIONS: 6
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    darkage said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    Yeah this is why Truss is toxic. She was going on about how a rise in rates was 'project fear', then provoked a sudden sharp rise in interest rates with her plan to 'borrow money to reduce taxes for the top 1%'. All labour need to do is cut and paste this footage in to minute long videos and they've lost homeowners with significant mortgages. People know it but they just need to be continuously reminded.

    They could also do some other tricks, like getting footage of Lee Anderson going on about how pensioners have 'done their shift' and deserve a pay rise with inflation, whilst public sector workers and benefit claimants get an increase that barely follows earnings.

    Everything the tories try and do they are just digging themselves in to an even bigger hole.
    There are so many quotes and clips available from the last week that the best thing the tory party could do is return Boris to No 10 with him doing the equivalent of Bobby Ewing emerging from the shower saying, "it was all a bad dream"...

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    edited October 2022
    The only real difficulty I can see now for the opposition is finding a photo of Liz Truss that makes her look like the villain in a slasher movie.

    If only they can do that, they'll be home and dry ...
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Scott_xP said:
    If you aren't plotting to save the next election - chances are you won't be in a position to be part of the opposition after the next election.

    Currently the Tory Party are heading into terminal wipe-out territory ...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, inaccurate anecdata here, but I was visiting family in Doncaster earlier this week and overheard two conversations on public transport (one train, one bus) between folk who didn't strike me as particularly politically engaged talking about how useless they thought Liz Truss was.

    Things can always change in politics (and we on here do often seem stricken by status quo* bias) but I'm starting to think that a view of LT is cementing itself in the popular consciousness.

    *note lack of leading caps

    The status quo is unpopular, and still shrinking in popularity, north of the border. Trend good folks! Watch the trend. It is your friend.

    The gold-standard British Social Attitudes Survey has:

    - Independence 52% (steadily rising over two decades)

    - Devolution (the status quo) 38% (steadily declining over two decades)

    - Direct rule (the status quo ante) 8% (fairly steady over two decades)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Chris said:

    The only real difficulty I can see now for the opposition is finding a photo of Liz Truss that makes her look like the villain in a slasher movie.

    If only they can do that, they'll be home and dry ...

    Oh wait - I've just found 17 in today's papers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited October 2022

    Seat projection - on the new boundaries - for the two Scottish polls published yesterday are identical:

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (YouGov/The Times; SNP45, Lab31, Con12, LD7)

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; SNP46, Lab30, Con15, LD8)

    The new boundaries are incredibly cruel to the Unionist parties.

    The Scotsman publishes a seat projection for Westminster, which shows that the SNP would be His Majesty’s Official Opposition:

    Labour 519 seats
    Scottish National Party 53 seats
    Conservatives 37 seats
    Liberal Democrats 17 seats

    (Based on the two latest Savanta ComRes polls: UK and Scottish)

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-tories-heading-for-total-wipeout-as-labour-gains-exclusive-poll-shows-3869122

    So what? The SNP could win every constituency in Scotland they still would not get indyref2.

    It is far better for the SNP to get a hung parliament where they have the balance of power even if they lose a few seats than see a Labour or Conservative majority even if they gain a few seats but still have no power or relevance at Westminster.

    It is not impossible though the SNP could be the main Opposition if the Tories completely collapse like their Canadian counterparts in 1993 where the BQ became the main opposition to the governing Liberals who had a huge majority. By 1997 though the populist right Reform party became the main opposition eventually merging with the rump of the Canadian Tories to form the Conservative party of Canada in 2003
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 885
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    If you aren't plotting to save the next election - chances are you won't be in a position to be part of the opposition after the next election.

    Currently the Tory Party are heading into terminal wipe-out territory ...
    Next May's council elections may be the tipping point. If the Conservative lose a lot of councillors then the membership may turn on those responsible.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    Oh God. Another English FM divorced from the truth.

    Such a silly, and unnecessary, claim to make.
  • I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    Your typical forty or fifty something who historically switches from Labour to Tory is going to be a tough convert this time around. Either renting or screwed on mortgages, real term pay drops, tax burden of supporting an elderly cohort who are unwilling to contribute fairly and pension age going up further beyond its original increase.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    There's a nice little Easter Egg if you search for Velma on Google

    https://www.google.com/search?q=velma

    spoiler - it may reveal a sub-plot point in the latest Scooby Doo movie....
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Brexit: Prospect of United Ireland 'now not as remote'

    The son of the DUP founder, Ian Paisley, has said the prospect of a united Ireland is not as remote as it once was.

    The Rev Kyle Paisley said this was due to the Brexit uncertainty and the trade border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    He was speaking at the Seanad (the upper house of Irish parliament) on Friday.

    The twin brother of DUP MP Ian Paisley said that it would be a "herculean task" to win moderate unionists over to a united Ireland.

    Rev Paisley, who made part of his contribution in Irish, said: “My heart is fixed and can’t be won” but he admitted that a “disastrous” Brexit had changed some people’s attitudes.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c891z1gj343o
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Icarus said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    If you aren't plotting to save the next election - chances are you won't be in a position to be part of the opposition after the next election.

    Currently the Tory Party are heading into terminal wipe-out territory ...
    Next May's council elections may be the tipping point. If the Conservative lose a lot of councillors then the membership may turn on those responsible.
    The Tories did so badly in the 2019 local elections - it is going to be hard to identify any issue in 2023....

    It's very likely a bad result will look reasonable - because they really are starting from a very bad starting point..
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eristdoof said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    What she says is awful. Why she says it is really awful. But the part that blows my mind is *how* she says it.

    "You are wooden Prime Minister" someone must have told her. Because suddenly she has this pisstake huge grin on her face half the time which looks not just totally fake but entirely inappropriate with what she is saying.

    And then we have the arms. I commented during her LK interview on Sunday morning that her left arm looked like it was being operated by Frank Oz via a stick. Now it is both arms. Held out front. Moved up and down together.

    Do you remember when BBC News mistook a person who went for a job interview for a pundit and stuck him on air? The poor guy blustered his way through some answers to try not to embarrass people but clearly wasn't who they assumed he was?

    That's Liz Truss that is. Wooden. Inauthentic. Clearly not the Prime Minister because bonkers and embarrassing for anyone who understands politics to look at. But despite being a walking talking parody she IS the PM because giffers were put in the position of choosing and they chose *that*
    She has a childlike quality that sits ill with a great office of state.

    Is it the skinniness? The false bravado? The naïveté? The sense that she is practicing rather than doing? The faltering voice? The agonising gaps as she tries to come up with the right answer? The crush on her favourite teacher Miss Brodie Mrs Thatcher, who she hasn’t realised is in love with Benito? The string of fails in all her subjects? The experimentation? The casual nastiness? The inappropriate arm and face movements?

    Adolescence is awkward. Ask Fibber Johnson.

    Spitting Image, Private Eye or Viz ought to consider a ‘Behind the Bike Shed’ feature with Pretty Liz and her sidekick Beefy Coffey trying out fags to impress the boys. Kalamity Kwasi is seen sneaking off sheepishly, sniffing his fingers.
    I don't think that childlike is a problem.

    The problem is that most children are very inexperienced. Ms Truss also gives the impression that she is inexperienced. This is most evident by her lack of experience at answering akward questions. That is a fatal characteristic for someone who leads a country.
    What this proves I think is how excessively presidential the system is. Same with May: rose without trace, decade in a Great Office of State without that either preparing her for PMship or exposing her unfitness. Perhaps we should have weekly HSQs and FSQs and CXQs so that we can have a look at them?
  • Sean_F said:
    That sounds famiiar to me. My wife left a job in Nothern Ireland because she found so much more anti-semitism there than London.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited October 2022
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    HYUFD said:

    Seat projection - on the new boundaries - for the two Scottish polls published yesterday are identical:

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (YouGov/The Times; SNP45, Lab31, Con12, LD7)

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; SNP46, Lab30, Con15, LD8)

    The new boundaries are incredibly cruel to the Unionist parties.

    The Scotsman publishes a seat projection for Westminster, which shows that the SNP would be His Majesty’s Official Opposition:

    Labour 519 seats
    Scottish National Party 53 seats
    Conservatives 37 seats
    Liberal Democrats 17 seats

    (Based on the two latest Savanta ComRes polls: UK and Scottish)

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-tories-heading-for-total-wipeout-as-labour-gains-exclusive-poll-shows-3869122

    So what? The SNP could win every constituency in Scotland they still would not get indyref2.

    It is far better for the SNP to get a hung parliament where they have the balance of power even if they lose a few seats than see a Labour or Conservative majority even if they gain a few seats but still have no power or relevance at Westminster.

    It is not impossible though the SNP could be the main Opposition if the Tories completely collapse like their Canadian counterparts in 1993 where the BQ became the main opposition to the governing Liberals who had a huge majority. By 1997 though the populist right Reform party became the main opposition eventually merging with the rump of the Canadian Tories to form the Conservative party of Canada in 2003
    Note on the same poll 55% of Scots oppose an indyref2 next October
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Swapping Johnson with Truss completely pointless as the thread header suggests
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Chapeau to Dom Cummings.

    She really is properly bonkers.

    Indeed. D Cummings rightly said L Truss was bonkers because aiming to reconquer Crimea meant nuclear war, WW3. Which half the main posters here too are also pushing for.
    Really? I assumed it was because she thought he was a creepy liar who didn't have a clue what he was doing and told him so.

    Both would be correct, of course. Truss is clearly bonkers and as for Cummings...

    As for Cummings on Crimea, he's long been a Russophile. Indeed, he's so blatant in his pro-Russian stance he's even been accused of being an FSB agent (not very convincingly, I might add). That he should be arguing against trying to take some of the land they've nicked back off them is no surprise at all.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    Sean_F said:
    That sounds famiiar to me. My wife left a job in Nothern Ireland because she found so much more anti-semitism there than London.
    Is this coming from both communities in NI or just one?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    So make the case that this is "slagging off" as opposed to a realistic assessment of her abilities and prospects.

    Do this now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    Sorry, thought it was Scryver.
    Lol.
    Who is Scryver ?
    Scryver is one of the nutjob "everything is going according to Russia's amazing plan" blogger/Twitter guys.

    Here's from a recent missive:


    So, by his own assessment, NATO now strides the world like a Colossus?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    Has Liz Truss resigned yet?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    tyson said:

    The Tories key selling point has always been the fact that it persuades people that it can spend taxes more wisely than Labour. Rinse and repeat. The British public is small c conservative- they like the Government to add 1 and 1. That point has won the Tories every election despite Labour being trusted to run public services better (aside from the police and immigration). Our Conservative instinct leads us to place counting money higher than what it is spent on. We love the NHS, but not as much as our fear of indebtedness.

    Major lost it momentarily on Black Monday and Labour won 3 elections. Well Truss has well and truly FUBARed the Tory edge on counting money.

    And as Casino has so eloquently said, she has double down and fucked with people's houses. Labour can now pin next years inevitable house price crash on the Tories. And play this message for the next few elections in the same way the Tories linked the banking crisis with Brown.

    I never thought Corbyn was an existential risk to the Labour Party. I always thought it was a passing phase. But Truss genuinely I think poses an existential risk to the Tory party which is not a good thing. Because out of the ashes of the Tory party will rise a Populist Right akin to Le Pen or Meloni.

    The Tories must now go into full damage limitation mode with the MP's agreeing on a Unity candidate who can limp them into the next GE, but leave them enough of base to survive as a political force.

    I think it unlikely that prices will crash. Mortgage rates have been rising since the start of the year, without crashing prices.

    That said, the next election results seems pretty well settled.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    darkage said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    Yeah this is why Truss is toxic. She was going on about how a rise in rates was 'project fear', then provoked a sudden sharp rise in interest rates with her plan to 'borrow money to reduce taxes for the top 1%'. All labour need to do is cut and paste this footage in to minute long videos and they've lost homeowners with significant mortgages. People know it but they just need to be continuously reminded.

    They could also do some other tricks, like getting footage of Lee Anderson going on about how pensioners have 'done their shift' and deserve a pay rise with inflation, whilst public sector workers and benefit claimants get an increase that barely follows earnings.

    Everything the tories try and do they are just digging themselves in to an even bigger hole.
    Anderson said yesterday everything was fantastic now that May had taken over, or words to that effect.

    It used to be a test for dementia to name the PM of the day, now even backbench MPs struggle.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    ydoethur said:

    Chapeau to Dom Cummings.

    She really is properly bonkers.

    Indeed. D Cummings rightly said L Truss was bonkers because aiming to reconquer Crimea meant nuclear war, WW3. Which half the main posters here too are also pushing for.
    Really? I assumed it was because she thought he was a creepy liar who didn't have a clue what he was doing and told him so.

    Both would be correct, of course. Truss is clearly bonkers and as for Cummings...

    As for Cummings on Crimea, he's long been a Russophile. Indeed, he's so blatant in his pro-Russian stance he's even been accused of being an FSB agent (not very convincingly, I might add). That he should be arguing against trying to take some of the land they've nicked back off them is no surprise at all.
    It turned out that Russia was a paper tiger. People who were bullish in support in support of Ukraine have been proved right.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,461
    HYUFD said:

    Swapping Johnson with Truss completely pointless as the thread header suggests

    I don't agree. It's provided us with great entertainment!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Okay, I'll rise to the bait as one of the outright owners, retired, you refer to. I don't like cruises. And won't vote Tory.

    To repeat a point I make frequently but you choose to ignore, you say we "care little for the impoverishment of generations below". We do, most of us. Partly (but not only) because those generations include my kids and grandkids. And even Tory voters have them. Many of use who are comfortably off and retired actually vote in the interests of our kids' generation. I'm fine thanks, but I want my kids to have a good life, with great jobs, affordable housing and great public services.
    I think @MaxPB wants to euthanaise every property owner aged 50+.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Sean_F said:

    tyson said:

    The Tories key selling point has always been the fact that it persuades people that it can spend taxes more wisely than Labour. Rinse and repeat. The British public is small c conservative- they like the Government to add 1 and 1. That point has won the Tories every election despite Labour being trusted to run public services better (aside from the police and immigration). Our Conservative instinct leads us to place counting money higher than what it is spent on. We love the NHS, but not as much as our fear of indebtedness.

    Major lost it momentarily on Black Monday and Labour won 3 elections. Well Truss has well and truly FUBARed the Tory edge on counting money.

    And as Casino has so eloquently said, she has double down and fucked with people's houses. Labour can now pin next years inevitable house price crash on the Tories. And play this message for the next few elections in the same way the Tories linked the banking crisis with Brown.

    I never thought Corbyn was an existential risk to the Labour Party. I always thought it was a passing phase. But Truss genuinely I think poses an existential risk to the Tory party which is not a good thing. Because out of the ashes of the Tory party will rise a Populist Right akin to Le Pen or Meloni.

    The Tories must now go into full damage limitation mode with the MP's agreeing on a Unity candidate who can limp them into the next GE, but leave them enough of base to survive as a political force.

    I think it unlikely that prices will crash. Mortgage rates have been rising since the start of the year, without crashing prices.

    That said, the next election results seems pretty well settled.
    15% fall, I think. Don't know if we call that a "crash".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    They also help with deposits for their grandchildren and children to get a house.

    Typical libertarian attitude ignoring the family
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912
    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Higher rates mean lower house prices though, which would far outweigh any benefits from higher interest receipts on savings deposits for most people without a mortgage, I would have thought.
    The current economic environment is so toxic because the UK has been hit by a negative terms of trade shock, so the country as a whole is poorer. That's not the government's fault but they will get the blame because they are in charge. On top of that they have created an additional risk premium for UK assets through their own incompetence, which also hurts all of us. That is absolutely their fault and they are rightly getting a kicking for it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    So did any PBers who are Con members actually vote for Liz as leader? Anybody here with the moral fibre to admit to that?
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Starmer needs to go all out against this group and make them pay. They don't vote Labour in significant numbers anyway so very little downside.

    I don't think he should have rushed to accept so much of the mini-budget eg the basic rate tax cut. He doesn't need to commit to things until an election is imminent.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Well, I am an outright owner with cash reserves who likes going sailing though not what you'd call cruises, and I am going to vote not Tory for the first time, but balls out politics of envy bile like that doesn't increase my inclination to do so.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Tories led amongst all homeowners but a substantial portion of those were homeowners with mortgages. If they lose most of those they will still be net behind overall even if outright owners still back them.

    And on the latter, just wait until their house prices collapse along with everyone else, affecting their equity release, and their kids/grandkids end up back living with them - then we'll see.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Higher rates mean lower house prices though, which would far outweigh any benefits from higher interest receipts on savings deposits for most people without a mortgage, I would have thought.
    The current economic environment is so toxic because the UK has been hit by a negative terms of trade shock, so the country as a whole is poorer. That's not the government's fault but they will get the blame because they are in charge. On top of that they have created an additional risk premium for UK assets through their own incompetence, which also hurts all of us. That is absolutely their fault and they are rightly getting a kicking for it.
    Brexit isn't exactly a boon for growth either.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    Oh God. Another English FM divorced from the truth.

    Such a silly, and unnecessary, claim to make.
    The problem with calling Truss a liar over this is that it is all too believable. It happened in 2018 with TUI; given attitudes in the past were not quite as they are now, I would be amazed if airlines had not been doing it occasionally for yonks.

    It is a totally believable story. And sadly, because attitudes were different back then, it would have largely gone unremarked - even if it was noticed.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,870
    algarkirk said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    There are trickier questions underneath all this. At the moment most of the media is dealing with each pay situation individually and singly, with the usual worthless and uninformative discussions about figures, per cents, living on boiled gravel and so on.

    The truth is that if all employees nationally are paid too little, then both all are and none are. Nurses are as much in competition for preference as everyone else.

    We are getting poorer (as is the world) in that inflation is an indicator of lots of money chasing the same or fewer goods.

    So the real question is which groups get less poor, or richer even, at the expense of which other groups. And why.
    If the government found some money for the NHS, the public would want it spent on more doctors and nurses, rather than paying the existing ones more.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Okay, I'll rise to the bait as one of the outright owners, retired, you refer to. I don't like cruises. And won't vote Tory.

    To repeat a point I make frequently but you choose to ignore, you say we "care little for the impoverishment of generations below". We do, most of us. Partly (but not only) because those generations include my kids and grandkids. And even Tory voters have them. Many of us who are comfortably off and retired actually vote in the interests of our kids' generation. I'm fine thanks, but I want my kids to have a good life, with great jobs, affordable housing and great public services.
    If only there were someone you could vote for who would be able to provide those things...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Okay, I'll rise to the bait as one of the outright owners, retired, you refer to. I don't like cruises. And won't vote Tory.

    To repeat a point I make frequently but you choose to ignore, you say we "care little for the impoverishment of generations below". We do, most of us. Partly (but not only) because those generations include my kids and grandkids. And even Tory voters have them. Many of use who are comfortably off and retired actually vote in the interests of our kids' generation. I'm fine thanks, but I want my kids to have a good life, with great jobs, affordable housing and great public services.
    I think @MaxPB wants to euthanaise every property owner aged 50+.
    No just subject them to more tax so taxes on working age people can be cut.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Sean_F said:

    tyson said:

    The Tories key selling point has always been the fact that it persuades people that it can spend taxes more wisely than Labour. Rinse and repeat. The British public is small c conservative- they like the Government to add 1 and 1. That point has won the Tories every election despite Labour being trusted to run public services better (aside from the police and immigration). Our Conservative instinct leads us to place counting money higher than what it is spent on. We love the NHS, but not as much as our fear of indebtedness.

    Major lost it momentarily on Black Monday and Labour won 3 elections. Well Truss has well and truly FUBARed the Tory edge on counting money.

    And as Casino has so eloquently said, she has double down and fucked with people's houses. Labour can now pin next years inevitable house price crash on the Tories. And play this message for the next few elections in the same way the Tories linked the banking crisis with Brown.

    I never thought Corbyn was an existential risk to the Labour Party. I always thought it was a passing phase. But Truss genuinely I think poses an existential risk to the Tory party which is not a good thing. Because out of the ashes of the Tory party will rise a Populist Right akin to Le Pen or Meloni.

    The Tories must now go into full damage limitation mode with the MP's agreeing on a Unity candidate who can limp them into the next GE, but leave them enough of base to survive as a political force.

    I think it unlikely that prices will crash. Mortgage rates have been rising since the start of the year, without crashing prices.

    That said, the next election results seems pretty well settled.
    The rates have only got problematic in the last 2-3 months (together with energy bills) and it will take some time for that to feed through as the fixed rates expire.

    A crash happens only if there's a recession with a rise in unemployment- as people are forced to sell - but it will force people in employment to massively extend mortgage terms, go interest only, take lodgers, or - in some cases - firesell as there's no way of servicing the debt.

    In the latter case it then comes up against willing buyers. I suspect first time buyers are emptying out of the market at the moment.

    So I think we'll almost certainly see a fall.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    I sense a disconnect between PB feeltone and the betting markets. PB says it's just a matter of the *size* of the Labour GE majority. Betfair has any Labour majority at all @ 2.2 ie a less than 50% chance.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    Oh God. Another English FM divorced from the truth.

    Such a silly, and unnecessary, claim to make.
    Perhaps she's just a big fan of Nicola 'I don't recall' Sturgeon?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Higher rates mean lower house prices though, which would far outweigh any benefits from higher interest receipts on savings deposits for most people without a mortgage, I would have thought.
    The current economic environment is so toxic because the UK has been hit by a negative terms of trade shock, so the country as a whole is poorer. That's not the government's fault but they will get the blame because they are in charge. On top of that they have created an additional risk premium for UK assets through their own incompetence, which also hurts all of us. That is absolutely their fault and they are rightly getting a kicking for it.
    Brexit isn't exactly a boon for growth either.
    Yes absolutely. I've mostly stopped mentioning that because it's just so self evidently true that Brexit has made us all poorer that it's hardly worth mentioning anymore. 95% of people know it's true and the 5% who refuse to see it aren't going to change their mind, and so you're just going to end up going down a blind alley of pointless argument with people who are either liars or idiots.
  • Hello_CloudsHello_Clouds Posts: 97
    edited October 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Chapeau to Dom Cummings.

    She really is properly bonkers.

    Indeed. D Cummings rightly said L Truss was bonkers because aiming to reconquer Crimea meant nuclear war, WW3. Which half the main posters here too are also pushing for.
    Really? I assumed it was because she thought he was a creepy liar who didn't have a clue what he was doing and told him so.

    Both would be correct, of course. Truss is clearly bonkers and as for Cummings...

    As for Cummings on Crimea, he's long been a Russophile. Indeed, he's so blatant in his pro-Russian stance he's even been accused of being an FSB agent (not very convincingly, I might add). That he should be arguing against trying to take some of the land they've nicked back off them is no surprise at all.
    Why don't you support Truss then? Sounds as though you think what she parrots about Crimea is as sane as a button.

    Here are Cummings's own words:

    "And with the human handgrenade, she may catastrophically escalate the war — remember she has defined the goal as pushing Russia out of Crimea, which if seriously attempted would be seen by the vast majority of Russians (including anti-Putin Russians) as an attempt to destroy Russia and could lead to nuclear weapons."

    What would Dominic Cummings have to contribute to Russian internal security BTW? Perhaps the mudthrowers mean the SVR?
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    tyson said:

    The Tories key selling point has always been the fact that it persuades people that it can spend taxes more wisely than Labour. Rinse and repeat. The British public is small c conservative- they like the Government to add 1 and 1. That point has won the Tories every election despite Labour being trusted to run public services better (aside from the police and immigration). Our Conservative instinct leads us to place counting money higher than what it is spent on. We love the NHS, but not as much as our fear of indebtedness.

    Major lost it momentarily on Black Monday and Labour won 3 elections. Well Truss has well and truly FUBARed the Tory edge on counting money.

    And as Casino has so eloquently said, she has double down and fucked with people's houses. Labour can now pin next years inevitable house price crash on the Tories. And play this message for the next few elections in the same way the Tories linked the banking crisis with Brown.

    I never thought Corbyn was an existential risk to the Labour Party. I always thought it was a passing phase. But Truss genuinely I think poses an existential risk to the Tory party which is not a good thing. Because out of the ashes of the Tory party will rise a Populist Right akin to Le Pen or Meloni.

    The Tories must now go into full damage limitation mode with the MP's agreeing on a Unity candidate who can limp them into the next GE, but leave them enough of base to survive as a political force.

    I think it unlikely that prices will crash. Mortgage rates have been rising since the start of the year, without crashing prices.

    That said, the next election results seems pretty well settled.
    15% fall, I think. Don't know if we call that a "crash".
    Going to be more than a 15% fall..

    If you think about it most people pay x% of their income in rent / mortgage payments. Let's say its £1000 a month.

    When interest rates were at 1% that allowed you to borrow £265,342
    At 6.2% you can now borrow £152,304

    And that £265,342 loan is now costing £1742 a month.

    The figures there are poor as I'm using a ready reckoner on google to calculate the figures but it shows the scale of the issue.

    No one is going to be offering £270,000 at present interest rates - it's possible it could be half that...
  • MaxPB said:

    I see 2-year mortgages are now above 6%. I got mine Nov last year with Santander at 0.89%.

    Just think of what a sledgehammer that is when it comes up to remortgaging. You can do the maths for yourself on a £200k debt. Add energy bills and inflation on top and ask how families are going to afford it. It's over an extra £1,000 a month every month.

    Tories used to have a lead amongst homeowners. They won't now.

    They will because the Tories will lead heavily among outright owners with no mortgage. They want higher interest rates, they care little for the impoverishment of generations below if it gets them an extra cruise per year.
    Okay, I'll rise to the bait as one of the outright owners, retired, you refer to. I don't like cruises. And won't vote Tory.

    To repeat a point I make frequently but you choose to ignore, you say we "care little for the impoverishment of generations below". We do, most of us. Partly (but not only) because those generations include my kids and grandkids. And even Tory voters have them. Many of us who are comfortably off and retired actually vote in the interests of our kids' generation. I'm fine thanks, but I want my kids to have a good life, with great jobs, affordable housing and great public services.
    I fully accept that is what nearly all older people want. It is not what they, as a cohort rather than individuals, vote for though.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited October 2022

    Seat projection - on the new boundaries - for the two Scottish polls published yesterday are identical:

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (YouGov/The Times; SNP45, Lab31, Con12, LD7)

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; SNP46, Lab30, Con15, LD8)

    The new boundaries are incredibly cruel to the Unionist parties.

    The Scotsman publishes a seat projection for Westminster, which shows that the SNP would be His Majesty’s Official Opposition:

    Labour 519 seats
    Scottish National Party 53 seats
    Conservatives 37 seats
    Liberal Democrats 17 seats

    (Based on the two latest Savanta ComRes polls: UK and Scottish)

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-tories-heading-for-total-wipeout-as-labour-gains-exclusive-poll-shows-3869122

    Interesting, but I think the LDs would do better than that because of tactical voting.
    Agreed.

    Not very likely that they’ll get more than 2 seats in Scotland, due to horrific boundary changes, but highly likely that the Liberal Democrats will get a lot more seats in southern England than UNS suggests.

    As evidence, see these astonishing net approval ratings for Truss in:

    South East -31
    South West -43
    Eastern -44

    (the same R&W Mike posted)

    Those are just mind-bogglingly poor. I have never seen such poor approval ratings for a UK PM in southern England. I’m happy to be corrected, but not even Gordon Brown reached so low, even during the height of the “Scottish Mafia” furore in the English media.

    Observe in particular that Eastern England, the very heartland of Brexit, is the worst area for Truss in the whole of England and Wales. (Only Scotland disapproves more: -51.) Why? Is she seen as a ‘Remainer’?

    In addition, we’ve been seeing a lot of dreadful Con VI figures in South West England. Eg just 24% in that Omnisis poll a few days ago:

    South West
    Lab 44%
    Con 24%
    LD 22%
    Ref 6%
    Grn 2%

    Those numbers must terrify local office-bearers.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Sean_F said:

    tyson said:

    The Tories key selling point has always been the fact that it persuades people that it can spend taxes more wisely than Labour. Rinse and repeat. The British public is small c conservative- they like the Government to add 1 and 1. That point has won the Tories every election despite Labour being trusted to run public services better (aside from the police and immigration). Our Conservative instinct leads us to place counting money higher than what it is spent on. We love the NHS, but not as much as our fear of indebtedness.

    Major lost it momentarily on Black Monday and Labour won 3 elections. Well Truss has well and truly FUBARed the Tory edge on counting money.

    And as Casino has so eloquently said, she has double down and fucked with people's houses. Labour can now pin next years inevitable house price crash on the Tories. And play this message for the next few elections in the same way the Tories linked the banking crisis with Brown.

    I never thought Corbyn was an existential risk to the Labour Party. I always thought it was a passing phase. But Truss genuinely I think poses an existential risk to the Tory party which is not a good thing. Because out of the ashes of the Tory party will rise a Populist Right akin to Le Pen or Meloni.

    The Tories must now go into full damage limitation mode with the MP's agreeing on a Unity candidate who can limp them into the next GE, but leave them enough of base to survive as a political force.

    I think it unlikely that prices will crash. Mortgage rates have been rising since the start of the year, without crashing prices.

    That said, the next election results seems pretty well settled.
    The rates have only got problematic in the last 2-3 months (together with energy bills) and it will take some time for that to feed through as the fixed rates expire.

    A crash happens only if there's a recession with a rise in unemployment- as people are forced to sell - but it will force people in employment to massively extend mortgage terms, go interest only, take lodgers, or - in some cases - firesell as there's no way of servicing the debt.

    In the latter case it then comes up against willing buyers. I suspect first time buyers are emptying out of the market at the moment.

    So I think we'll almost certainly see a fall.
    The issue is that sterling is in the toilet and falling house prices in the UK just becomes a buying opportunity for cash rich overseas investors and we're one of few countries that hasn't got any real restrictions on overseas purchasers. So any internal fall in demand is likely to be met by an increase in external demand. If we want a fall in house prices to actually be a net benefit to the UK and not just another exercise of rentseeking by foreign investors then Labour will need to put up some kind of annual value tax on foreign ownership of property.
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