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Liz Truss – the Tory gift to Keir Starmer – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 9 in General
imageLiz Truss – the Tory gift to Keir Starmer – politicalbetting.com

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  • First?
  • Well, a first first for me.

    But more substantively, the one question I have about all of this is whether the Tory leadership rules allow LizT to be VoNC-ed in her first year of office, as I've seen suggested here. If that's the case then they'll need to change the rules as well as get the requisite number of letters in, which (a) takes time (thus leaving them even more open to the charge of not concentrating on the job of running the country), and (b) makes it less certain to succeed (would the 1922 Committee change the rules if they only just had 15% of MPs writing in?).

    I've even downloaded the Tory Party Leadership Election Rules to try and find out -- though granted I've not read them from cover to cover. I may rue my insomnia, but there are limits...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    LIZ TRUSS - THE TORY GIFT TO NICOLA STURGEON

    Liz Truss approval rating:

    Wales -9
    London -16
    North West -26
    Yorkshire & Humber -29
    South East -31
    East Midlands -33
    West Midlands -36
    North East -42
    South West -43
    Eastern -44
    Scotland -51

    GB -33

    (the same R&W Mike posted)

    It is very hard to see this change. She is as she is and the party is stuck with her.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245

    Well, a first first for me.

    But more substantively, the one question I have about all of this is whether the Tory leadership rules allow LizT to be VoNC-ed in her first year of office, as I've seen suggested here. If that's the case then they'll need to change the rules as well as get the requisite number of letters in, which (a) takes time (thus leaving them even more open to the charge of not concentrating on the job of running the country), and (b) makes it less certain to succeed (would the 1922 Committee change the rules if they only just had 15% of MPs writing in?).

    I've even downloaded the Tory Party Leadership Election Rules to try and find out -- though granted I've not read them from cover to cover. I may rue my insomnia, but there are limits...

    Retirement on health or family grounds are the only graceful exits from this gravely sub-optimal point. Both for Liz Truss and for her party.

    Upon retirement, her successor must be elected instantly, unopposed. The party simply cannot afford another catastrophic leadership election. Mind-bogglingly introspective and decadent, and an unwelcome insight into the brain-dead membership.

    The MPs must pick someone who will salvage as many seats as possible.

    The 1922 committee is a huge hindrance to the Tories. It should be de-fanged.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    edited October 6
    Normally the newspapers give a Leader's speech a day of good coverage.

    Not this time.

    The Daily Express and Daily Mail have a smidgen of equivocation but it's really surprising to see the reaction of the others. The Times leads with tory election wipeout and the Telegraph really puts the boot in about income tax rises. The i and Metro are also critical fronts.

    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/

    The British press can turn quickly when they see a loser. They will be sounding out their readership who have turned on the tories in general and Truss in particular.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157

    Meanwhile, what do you make of OPEC (Saud) aligned with Putin on oil cuts - failure of US and UK diplomacy, or just temptation to carpet bag was understandably too great?

    FWIW, I reckon it's about 50% scalping and 50% despots siding with Putin.

    Mohammed bin Salman is the second best argument for decarbonisation (after the world baking to death,) and it's a close-run thing.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,461
    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    Roger said:

    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them

    Fortunately it's an unlikely problem to have to confront. Most of the few remaining members are either aged about ninety and rarely leave their country mansions, or aren't allowed out of their padded cells for their own safety and that of others.
  • pingping Posts: 3,201
    edited October 6
    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,313
    Roger said:

    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them

    I imagined it used to be that you felt you had a voice on policy as a member of a party, is that the case in the Conservative party, or is it the `big money' that influences party strategy etc... I'm intrigued by why people join parties (BTW I think political parties are important)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,281
    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    I can’t be bothered to listen to the speech, so can you tell us what was the reason for the anecdote ?
    That society has changed since then - or was it another hurdle she overcame like her deprived childhood being educated at a failing school ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,281
    The Russian commentariat/propagandists have gone completely batshit.
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1577809666733744128

    Russia is apparently in the position of the Jews facing the Holocaust - and should just kill everyone.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,507
    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them

    Fortunately it's an unlikely problem to have to confront. Most of the few remaining members are either aged about ninety and rarely leave their country mansions, or aren't allowed out of their padded cells for their own safety and that of others.
    I know that this is insulting to he Tory membership, as my my descriptions of them as "old giffers". But then reality kicks in - a lot of reportage of very old people in the hall asleep in their chairs as people like Therese Coffey give their speeches...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,453

    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them

    Fortunately it's an unlikely problem to have to confront. Most of the few remaining members are either aged about ninety and rarely leave their country mansions, or aren't allowed out of their padded cells for their own safety and that of others.
    I know that this is insulting to he Tory membership, as my my descriptions of them as "old giffers". But then reality kicks in - a lot of reportage of very old people in the hall asleep in their chairs as people like Therese Coffey give their speeches...
    To be fair, I'm not old, and I'd probably prefer to sleep through a Therese Coffey speech.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,281
    rcs1000 said:

    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them

    Fortunately it's an unlikely problem to have to confront. Most of the few remaining members are either aged about ninety and rarely leave their country mansions, or aren't allowed out of their padded cells for their own safety and that of others.
    I know that this is insulting to he Tory membership, as my my descriptions of them as "old giffers". But then reality kicks in - a lot of reportage of very old people in the hall asleep in their chairs as people like Therese Coffey give their speeches...
    To be fair, I'm not old, and I'd probably prefer to sleep through a Therese Coffey speech.
    I’d prefer not to be present.
    Though maybe they were just there because the hall was a free warm space ?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,507
    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    What she says is awful. Why she says it is really awful. But the part that blows my mind is *how* she says it.

    "You are wooden Prime Minister" someone must have told her. Because suddenly she has this pisstake huge grin on her face half the time which looks not just totally fake but entirely inappropriate with what she is saying.

    And then we have the arms. I commented during her LK interview on Sunday morning that her left arm looked like it was being operated by Frank Oz via a stick. Now it is both arms. Held out front. Moved up and down together.

    Do you remember when BBC News mistook a person who went for a job interview for a pundit and stuck him on air? The poor guy blustered his way through some answers to try not to embarrass people but clearly wasn't who they assumed he was?

    That's Liz Truss that is. Wooden. Inauthentic. Clearly not the Prime Minister because bonkers and embarrassing for anyone who understands politics to look at. But despite being a walking talking parody she IS the PM because giffers were put in the position of choosing and they chose *that*
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    edited October 6
    Seat projection - on the new boundaries - for the two Scottish polls published yesterday are identical:

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (YouGov/The Times; SNP45, Lab31, Con12, LD7)

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; SNP46, Lab30, Con15, LD8)

    The new boundaries are incredibly cruel to the Unionist parties.

    The Scotsman publishes a seat projection for Westminster, which shows that the SNP would be His Majesty’s Official Opposition:

    Labour 519 seats
    Scottish National Party 53 seats
    Conservatives 37 seats
    Liberal Democrats 17 seats

    (Based on the two latest Savanta ComRes polls: UK and Scottish)

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-tories-heading-for-total-wipeout-as-labour-gains-exclusive-poll-shows-3869122
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,556

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    What she says is awful. Why she says it is really awful. But the part that blows my mind is *how* she says it.

    "You are wooden Prime Minister" someone must have told her. Because suddenly she has this pisstake huge grin on her face half the time which looks not just totally fake but entirely inappropriate with what she is saying.

    And then we have the arms. I commented during her LK interview on Sunday morning that her left arm looked like it was being operated by Frank Oz via a stick. Now it is both arms. Held out front. Moved up and down together.

    Do you remember when BBC News mistook a person who went for a job interview for a pundit and stuck him on air? The poor guy blustered his way through some answers to try not to embarrass people but clearly wasn't who they assumed he was?

    That's Liz Truss that is. Wooden. Inauthentic. Clearly not the Prime Minister because bonkers and embarrassing for anyone who understands politics to look at. But despite being a walking talking parody she IS the PM because giffers were put in the position of choosing and they chose *that*
    The mistaken identity guy interviewed better, to be fair.

    I heard the speech yesterday, rather than saw it - was in the car. Wondered whether she would be less weird without the visual cues, but she still sounded really odd. Maybe in part because I could imagine the visuals of the delivery, but I don't think it was just that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,618
    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 592
    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 592
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    Sorry, thought it was Scryver.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,618
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    Sorry, thought it was Scryver.
    Yes, Snyder has written quite well on Ukraine.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,328
    Nigelb said:

    The Russian commentariat/propagandists have gone completely batshit.
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1577809666733744128

    Russia is apparently in the position of the Jews facing the Holocaust - and should just kill everyone.

    Blimey, it puts my occasional grumbles about the Today program into perspective, doesn't it?

    The pace of Russia's defeat is accelerating. So is the point of total humiliation for some desperate people. And the maximum danger to the planet.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,313
    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 766
    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them

    Fortunately it's an unlikely problem to have to confront. Most of the few remaining members are either aged about ninety and rarely leave their country mansions, or aren't allowed out of their padded cells for their own safety and that of others.
    Gosh - if they all live in mansions they are really going to lose what sanity they have left when they find that the £2,500 energy cap doesn't mean them - or anyone else in a detached house.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,618
    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them

    Fortunately it's an unlikely problem to have to confront. Most of the few remaining members are either aged about ninety and rarely leave their country mansions, or aren't allowed out of their padded cells for their own safety and that of others.
    Not quite. My mum voted for Truss, and she is a youthful 85.

    She has always been a Tory, but used to be fairly mainstream, liking John Major, but my folks disappeared down the rabbit hole after Brexit and now watch GB News. I no longer talk to them about politics.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,922
    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    That is damning. The government made a big thing of claiming success for increasing wages. A terrible look if it then gives its own staff significant real term pay cuts and creates a load of strikes.

    If it is unconscionable to give pensioners and other benefits claimants less than inflation increases, why is it fine to give nurses and other state workers less than half inflation increases?

    I don't get it. Give them all broadly the same, slightly bigger rises for the poorest/lowest earners and a bit less for the richest/highest earners.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    edited October 6

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    What she says is awful. Why she says it is really awful. But the part that blows my mind is *how* she says it.

    "You are wooden Prime Minister" someone must have told her. Because suddenly she has this pisstake huge grin on her face half the time which looks not just totally fake but entirely inappropriate with what she is saying.

    And then we have the arms. I commented during her LK interview on Sunday morning that her left arm looked like it was being operated by Frank Oz via a stick. Now it is both arms. Held out front. Moved up and down together.

    Do you remember when BBC News mistook a person who went for a job interview for a pundit and stuck him on air? The poor guy blustered his way through some answers to try not to embarrass people but clearly wasn't who they assumed he was?

    That's Liz Truss that is. Wooden. Inauthentic. Clearly not the Prime Minister because bonkers and embarrassing for anyone who understands politics to look at. But despite being a walking talking parody she IS the PM because giffers were put in the position of choosing and they chose *that*
    She has a childlike quality that sits ill with a great office of state.

    Is it the skinniness? The false bravado? The naïveté? The sense that she is practicing rather than doing? The faltering voice? The agonising gaps as she tries to come up with the right answer? The crush on her favourite teacher Miss Brodie Mrs Thatcher, who she hasn’t realised is in love with Benito? The string of fails in all her subjects? The experimentation? The casual nastiness? The inappropriate arm and face movements?

    Adolescence is awkward. Ask Fibber Johnson.

    Spitting Image, Private Eye or Viz ought to consider a ‘Behind the Bike Shed’ feature with Pretty Liz and her sidekick Beefy Coffey trying out fags to impress the boys. Kalamity Kwasi is seen sneaking off sheepishly, sniffing his fingers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,854
    rcs1000 said:

    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them

    Fortunately it's an unlikely problem to have to confront. Most of the few remaining members are either aged about ninety and rarely leave their country mansions, or aren't allowed out of their padded cells for their own safety and that of others.
    I know that this is insulting to he Tory membership, as my my descriptions of them as "old giffers". But then reality kicks in - a lot of reportage of very old people in the hall asleep in their chairs as people like Therese Coffey give their speeches...
    To be fair, I'm not old, and I'd probably prefer to sleep through a Therese Coffey speech.
    Why? Did she diss Radiohead?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,854
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    He knaps flint dildos for a living! It's kind of obvious...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    Yes, but he’s a fun poster, who sometimes has insight.
    Oh, you didn’t mean @Leon
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    Yes, but he’s a fun poster, who sometimes has insight.
    Oh, you didn’t mean @Leon
    Yes. He is fun.

    But fun in the same kind of way the Hitler Youth had fun smashing windows on Kristallnacht.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    That hot mic from Biden is very well timed from a avoid-nuclear-exchange perspective
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,527
    The Russians giving some new conscripts some excitement before being deployed. I'm not convinced that is a genuine uniform she is wearing! They will be in for quite the shock when they get to Ukraine.

    Some pre-deployment entertainment for newly mobilised soldiers at Yekaterinburg's military camp No32
    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1577903655373737984
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,220
    edited October 6
    Truss looks inauthentic because she's putting on an act. The last time I saw that so clearly in a politician was in Gordon Brown. To be fair, he was put in a spot, but the inane grin he produced was embarrassing. Some people aren't made for politics.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,232

    Seat projection - on the new boundaries - for the two Scottish polls published yesterday are identical:

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (YouGov/The Times; SNP45, Lab31, Con12, LD7)

    SNP 52 seats (+4)
    SLab 3 seats (+2)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    SCon 0 seats (-6)

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; SNP46, Lab30, Con15, LD8)

    The new boundaries are incredibly cruel to the Unionist parties.

    The Scotsman publishes a seat projection for Westminster, which shows that the SNP would be His Majesty’s Official Opposition:

    Labour 519 seats
    Scottish National Party 53 seats
    Conservatives 37 seats
    Liberal Democrats 17 seats

    (Based on the two latest Savanta ComRes polls: UK and Scottish)

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-tories-heading-for-total-wipeout-as-labour-gains-exclusive-poll-shows-3869122

    Interesting, but I think the LDs would do better than that because of tactical voting.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,474
    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    There are a couple of articles in The Times today essentially saying that Truss can survive, if she abandons everything she says and does none of the things she wants.

    That seems unlikely...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,232

    Well, a first first for me.

    But more substantively, the one question I have about all of this is whether the Tory leadership rules allow LizT to be VoNC-ed in her first year of office, as I've seen suggested here. If that's the case then they'll need to change the rules as well as get the requisite number of letters in, which (a) takes time (thus leaving them even more open to the charge of not concentrating on the job of running the country), and (b) makes it less certain to succeed (would the 1922 Committee change the rules if they only just had 15% of MPs writing in?).

    I've even downloaded the Tory Party Leadership Election Rules to try and find out -- though granted I've not read them from cover to cover. I may rue my insomnia, but there are limits...

    Welcome and congrats, FL.

    If it gets too bad I expect she will be tapped quietly on the shoulder and she'll walk. When power drains away, it goes fast and completely. Whatever the rules say, she will know there is no point in carrying on.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,618
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,876
    Scott_xP said:

    There are a couple of articles in The Times today essentially saying that Truss can survive, if she abandons everything she says and does none of the things she wants.

    That seems unlikely...

    It is unlikely, but she has two realistic options.

    One is to keep going as she has, in which case her Premiership self-destructs by Candlemas.
    (Probably by Advent, since she has to say what her spending plans are.)

    The other is to accept that she is trapped in office but with minimal power. Perhaps she stays on as PM but the party chooses a different leader to fight the next election.

    The third possiblity is that she is vindicated, but that seems pretty unlikely.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    edited October 6

    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    That is damning. The government made a big thing of claiming success for increasing wages. A terrible look if it then gives its own staff significant real term pay cuts and creates a load of strikes.

    If it is unconscionable to give pensioners and other benefits claimants less than inflation increases, why is it fine to give nurses and other state workers less than half inflation increases?

    I don't get it. Give them all broadly the same, slightly bigger rises for the poorest/lowest earners and a bit less for the richest/highest earners.
    If they had got ahead of the issue a few months ago they might have been able to get away with that. They don’t have the authority now.


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,618
    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    Mine does, but its not just for staff. It gives out food etc to patients going home to empty cupboards too.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,847
    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,854

    Roger said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It'll certainly lose her the Air Stewardesses vote.
    If only one of them could show her where the exit is.
    Wouldn't make a difference. This one's not a high flier...
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,300
    Nigelb said:
    While that article speaks a great deal of sense, and is certainly reassuring (from a nuclear annihilation perspective) the argument it misses is that a battlefield nuke isn't just a tactical weapon on the battlefield, it's a strategic weapon in that it ignites mass panic and hysteria across the populations of the west and, more importantly, the markets.

    Much of the war has so far been economic. We sanction this, they cut off that. We withdraw banking, they demand payment in roubles, etc. If we are lurching towards a sovereign debt crisis, if some of the big investment banks and pension funds are (as rumoured) one bad day on the markets away from a Lehman-style event, then the damage done to the markets by a single battlefield nuke could be enough to devastate the entire western economy.

    If I were Putin, and I hope he doesn't read this site, because I don't want to give him ideas, I would detonate a battlefield nuke either on the edge of Russian territory, or over the Black Sea, as an "operational test" - somewhere with no casualties and small enough that any literal fallout would be negligible - though the fallout on the markets would be catastrophic.

    It would also be very hard for the west to respond by escalating directly if, say, the test was done on his own soil and there were zero casualties.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,618

    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    That is damning. The government made a big thing of claiming success for increasing wages. A terrible look if it then gives its own staff significant real term pay cuts and creates a load of strikes.

    If it is unconscionable to give pensioners and other benefits claimants less than inflation increases, why is it fine to give nurses and other state workers less than half inflation increases?

    I don't get it. Give them all broadly the same, slightly bigger rises for the poorest/lowest earners and a bit less for the richest/highest earners.
    If they had got ahead of the issue a few months ago they no go t have been able to get away with that. They don’t have the authority now.


    The pay offers were made back in the summer, and were tiered, so Band 2 receptionists got 9%, and I got 4.3%. Junior doctors did particularly poorly at 2%, which is why they are ballotting for strike too.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 766
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    I thought that was an essential criteria for BA cabin crew - BA HR dept would sign her up immediately.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604
    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,527
    Russians seem to have pre-prepared a defensive position in Kherson which they are falling back on. If some chap on Twitter has spotted them then I'm sure Ukraine with all the intelligence they are getting has too. HIMARs will be on their way there soon.

    The dam is a very important point as it is the last crossing of the Dnipro before Kherson itself. The bridge at Kherson is out of action due to HIMARs strikes. The dam can't be taken out in the same way for obvious reasons. If the Ukrainians take the dam then the Russians in Kherson are completely cut off.

    With 🇺🇦 advancing all over NE Kherson, and steadily closing in on Nova Khakova with the dam over the Dnipro river. Questions arise where could 🇷🇺 retreating forces try to make a stand. We have been monitoring this area and have seen an increase in activity around the dam.
    https://twitter.com/NLwartracker/status/1577906456149508096
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,281
    .
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    Sorry, thought it was Scryver.
    Lol.
    Who is Scryver ?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,177
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    After the IDS debacle you'd think the Tories would have had the sense not to let their members decide anything least of all who the next Prime Minister should be.

    Can you imagine meeting someone who says they're a member of the Conservative Party? How wide a berth would you give them

    Fortunately it's an unlikely problem to have to confront. Most of the few remaining members are either aged about ninety and rarely leave their country mansions, or aren't allowed out of their padded cells for their own safety and that of others.
    Not quite. My mum voted for Truss, and she is a youthful 85.

    She has always been a Tory, but used to be fairly mainstream, liking John Major, but my folks disappeared down the rabbit hole after Brexit and now watch GB News. I no longer talk to them about politics.
    The Tories got Brexit done. Now Brexit is getting the Tories done. Seems fitting.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,048
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,044

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Hopefully the discussion will be about something more interesting.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,507

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Its the biggest hot topic of the day / week / month. Its an event that will be referenced in political history from here onwards. And you want us not to talk about it, because...?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    Jonathan said:

    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.

    This is Peak Starmer.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,364
    CD13 said:

    Truss looks inauthentic because she's putting on an act. The last time I saw that so clearly in a politician was in Gordon Brown. To be fair, he was put in a spot, but the inane grin he produced was embarrassing. Some people aren't made for politics.

    ICYMI Alastair Campbell thinks he has spotted a "tell" when Liz Truss is lying or is asked a question she does not want to answer. Her lips move. No, she swallows hard so her adam's apple moves.
    https://youtu.be/JdR_EfRMveM?t=1316s
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,048
    AlistairM said:

    Russians seem to have pre-prepared a defensive position in Kherson which they are falling back on. If some chap on Twitter has spotted them then I'm sure Ukraine with all the intelligence they are getting has too. HIMARs will be on their way there soon.

    The dam is a very important point as it is the last crossing of the Dnipro before Kherson itself. The bridge at Kherson is out of action due to HIMARs strikes. The dam can't be taken out in the same way for obvious reasons. If the Ukrainians take the dam then the Russians in Kherson are completely cut off.

    With 🇺🇦 advancing all over NE Kherson, and steadily closing in on Nova Khakova with the dam over the Dnipro river. Questions arise where could 🇷🇺 retreating forces try to make a stand. We have been monitoring this area and have seen an increase in activity around the dam.
    https://twitter.com/NLwartracker/status/1577906456149508096

    They also have/had ferries across the river in Kherson itself, and a barge-pontoon bridge (shades of Bayonne) right underneath the bridge itself - and therefore harder to hit.

    It seems the situation with these change regularly though - the other day I heard of a video claiming there were three ferries, and another saying the pontoon bridge is out of action.

    Also, ferries are *not* ideal as queues inevitably form on one side or both - and queues of stationary vehicles are a nice, juicy target.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,364

    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    That is damning. The government made a big thing of claiming success for increasing wages. A terrible look if it then gives its own staff significant real term pay cuts and creates a load of strikes.

    If it is unconscionable to give pensioners and other benefits claimants less than inflation increases, why is it fine to give nurses and other state workers less than half inflation increases?

    I don't get it. Give them all broadly the same, slightly bigger rises for the poorest/lowest earners and a bit less for the richest/highest earners.
    Differentials!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604

    Jonathan said:

    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.

    This is Peak Starmer.
    Nice. Probably. But you never know. Peak Sturgeon lasted quite a while. The big difference for Starmer now is that he has confidence and looks like a winner, which creates positive feedback. Last week he had a good week on top of Truss’ disaster.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,048

    CD13 said:

    Truss looks inauthentic because she's putting on an act. The last time I saw that so clearly in a politician was in Gordon Brown. To be fair, he was put in a spot, but the inane grin he produced was embarrassing. Some people aren't made for politics.

    ICYMI Alastair Campbell thinks he has spotted a "tell" when Liz Truss is lying or is asked a question she does not want to answer. Her lips move. No, she swallows hard so her adam's apple moves.
    https://youtu.be/JdR_EfRMveM?t=1316s
    Campbell having excellent knowledge of lying, of course...

    I despise that man. Of all the New Labour people, he was the worst. Even worse than McBride.

    He was also exceptionally competent.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,618
    Andy_JS said:

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Hopefully the discussion will be about something more interesting.
    How do you think she can reverse her massive unpopularity?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,876

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Its the biggest hot topic of the day / week / month. Its an event that will be referenced in political history from here onwards. And you want us not to talk about it, because...?
    Even if you think that Truss is seeking to do the right thing, she is still a problem.

    Because her appalling delivery and people skills are going to stop her getting any of it done and will probably be an albatross round the Conservative Party's neck for the next decade or two.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,281
    edited October 6
    .

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    And will continue to be until she's gone.

    That's sort of the point.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,044
    edited October 6
    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,281
    Andy_JS said:

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Hopefully the discussion will be about something more interesting.
    Nice weather we're having ?
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 335
    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    It is the sort of thing that is irritating at the time but if that is the worst discrimination she has suffered then she has been pretty lucky.

    In the 80s, I was attending a local government conference as a journalist and when I went to a press drinks reception given by the Conservatives, I was asked if I was the barmaid. Perhaps Liz could mention this in her next conference speech - if she has one.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,179
    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    Except that, as pointed out every so often over the last two or three days, the tide has turned against the Conservatives. It's one of those moments where there's nothing anyone can do; in the public, or at least that section which aren't in a similar position to Dr. Foxy's parents, has decided that they've had enough of the Conservatives. And that's it.

    Good morning one and all!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604
    edited October 6
    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    She crashed the economy.

    Worse than that. She crashed the economy by going back on Tory doctrine on borrowing and stuffing the hyper riches pockets with cash.

    You end up losing Tories and everyone else.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    BoJo was unpopular andnbecomingbmore so over time.

    Truss's entire pitch was ContonuityBoJo (which is why she got the endorsements from BoJovians lile JRM and Dorries) so she has just continued the slide. She's no as an adroit liar as BoJo so its goong worse for her.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,841

    Morning all ... it's slag off Liz day again.

    Its the biggest hot topic of the day / week / month. Its an event that will be referenced in political history from here onwards. And you want us not to talk about it, because...?
    Even if you think that Truss is seeking to do the right thing, she is still a problem.

    Because her appalling delivery and people skills are going to stop her getting any of it done and will probably be an albatross round the Conservative Party's neck for the next decade or two.
    Oh, well. The "ruinous clutches of Starmer" it is then.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    Truss doesn't have the support of people who think endless bullshit is necessary for a PM. So that part of the Boris coalition is gone, and hasn't been replaced by anyone else
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,179
    We might get a better idea of the state of things, of course, this time tomorrow when the local election results will be to hand.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 251
    edited October 6
    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    This is her stock Equality story. I was trying to remember why I had heard exactly the same story before and who she had stolen it from, then I remembered that the original source was in fact Liz Truss herself. Although reported second hand to me by a friend who worked at the MoJ when she was SoS.

    We were discussing her merits compared to other Tory leadership candidates and she mentioned this as an example of where she had impressed her. My friend's view was that Liz Truss is committed to and sound on Diversity/Equality, and bonkers on everything else.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,426

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    What she says is awful. Why she says it is really awful. But the part that blows my mind is *how* she says it.

    "You are wooden Prime Minister" someone must have told her. Because suddenly she has this pisstake huge grin on her face half the time which looks not just totally fake but entirely inappropriate with what she is saying.

    And then we have the arms. I commented during her LK interview on Sunday morning that her left arm looked like it was being operated by Frank Oz via a stick. Now it is both arms. Held out front. Moved up and down together.

    Do you remember when BBC News mistook a person who went for a job interview for a pundit and stuck him on air? The poor guy blustered his way through some answers to try not to embarrass people but clearly wasn't who they assumed he was?

    That's Liz Truss that is. Wooden. Inauthentic. Clearly not the Prime Minister because bonkers and embarrassing for anyone who understands politics to look at. But despite being a walking talking parody she IS the PM because giffers were put in the position of choosing and they chose *that*
    She has a childlike quality that sits ill with a great office of state.

    Is it the skinniness? The false bravado? The naïveté? The sense that she is practicing rather than doing? The faltering voice? The agonising gaps as she tries to come up with the right answer? The crush on her favourite teacher Miss Brodie Mrs Thatcher, who she hasn’t realised is in love with Benito? The string of fails in all her subjects? The experimentation? The casual nastiness? The inappropriate arm and face movements?

    Adolescence is awkward. Ask Fibber Johnson.

    Spitting Image, Private Eye or Viz ought to consider a ‘Behind the Bike Shed’ feature with Pretty Liz and her sidekick Beefy Coffey trying out fags to impress the boys. Kalamity Kwasi is seen sneaking off sheepishly, sniffing his fingers.
    I don't think that childlike is a problem.

    The problem is that most children are very inexperienced. Ms Truss also gives the impression that she is inexperienced. This is most evident by her lack of experience at answering akward questions. That is a fatal characteristic for someone who leads a country.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,507
    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    BoJo was unpopular andnbecomingbmore so over time.

    Truss's entire pitch was ContonuityBoJo (which is why she got the endorsements from BoJovians lile JRM and Dorries) so she has just continued the slide. She's no as an adroit liar as BoJo so its goong worse for her.
    Yes, she has *accelerated* the slide. Shagger used to lie about ephemera. Damaging, anger-inducing but ultimately not threatening to the well-being of most voters. He left office with a terrible negative rating.

    And now we have Mistress Truss. Who killed the Queen. Crashed the pound. Exploded gilt yields and nearly took our pensions with them. Announced a vast inflationary borrowing binge for hedgie tax cuts imperilling anyone with a mortgage.

    And all through this its lie after lie after lie. Won't accept even now hat her plan was a disaster. Or that they did a massive uturn. Then they did a further uturn on part of it to go back to plan A which itself is part responsible for the economic FUBAR. Refuses to admit she is axing public spending and benefits. Despite it being blatantly obvious to all. Using the excuse "we can't reveal the budget" despite secnds before committing to the pensions triple lock.

    Its built on the wreckage of Boris. Only far stupider and more dangerous lies. The only way is down, because even when they drag her from office shortly the downward momentum will be hard to arrest.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    That is damning. The government made a big thing of claiming success for increasing wages. A terrible look if it then gives its own staff significant real term pay cuts and creates a load of strikes.

    If it is unconscionable to give pensioners and other benefits claimants less than inflation increases, why is it fine to give nurses and other state workers less than half inflation increases?

    I don't get it. Give them all broadly the same, slightly bigger rises for the poorest/lowest earners and a bit less for the richest/highest earners.
    If they had got ahead of the issue a few months ago they no go t have been able to get away with that. They don’t have the authority now.


    The pay offers were made back in the summer, and were tiered, so Band 2 receptionists got 9%, and I got 4.3%. Junior doctors did particularly poorly at 2%, which is why they are ballotting for strike too.
    The RCN’s 17% ask feels like a lot though!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,854

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    That is damning. The government made a big thing of claiming success for increasing wages. A terrible look if it then gives its own staff significant real term pay cuts and creates a load of strikes.

    If it is unconscionable to give pensioners and other benefits claimants less than inflation increases, why is it fine to give nurses and other state workers less than half inflation increases?

    I don't get it. Give them all broadly the same, slightly bigger rises for the poorest/lowest earners and a bit less for the richest/highest earners.
    If they had got ahead of the issue a few months ago they no go t have been able to get away with that. They don’t have the authority now.


    The pay offers were made back in the summer, and were tiered, so Band 2 receptionists got 9%, and I got 4.3%. Junior doctors did particularly poorly at 2%, which is why they are ballotting for strike too.
    The RCN’s 17% ask feels like a lot though!
    I don't think they were expecting to get it - rather, they wanted to put pressure on the government to up their offer.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,364

    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    Except that, as pointed out every so often over the last two or three days, the tide has turned against the Conservatives. It's one of those moments where there's nothing anyone can do; in the public, or at least that section which aren't in a similar position to Dr. Foxy's parents, has decided that they've had enough of the Conservatives. And that's it.

    Good morning one and all!
    There are also obvious paradoxes in the Conservatives' message which has been pointed out before, perhaps even in the airline story in this thread. On one side there is a nostalgia for the style and economics of the Thatcherite 1980s but at the same time they remind us how bad things were then with the failing schools and rampant sexism. Or carrots for bankers and the rich contrasted with the stick for benefit claimants.

    The Prime Minister might blame the media (or her own party) for garbling Trussonomics but she and her Chancellor have yet to spell out the precise mechanism by which unfunded tax cuts lead to growth which will shortly cover their costs and reduce government debt.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,453
    Nigelb said:
    Excellent piece, tyvm.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,847
    Jonathan said:

    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.

    Pah.. you defended Brown when he was
    clearly unfit to be Prime Minister. Fortunately enough voters thought the same to get rid of him. His nasty little shit trick of reducing the Prime Minister's salary was typical of the man.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,841
    edited October 6

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,361

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to think why Liz Truss is already more unpopular than Boris Johnson after just a few weeks in office IMO.

    BoJo was unpopular andnbecomingbmore so over time.

    Truss's entire pitch was ContonuityBoJo (which is why she got the endorsements from BoJovians lile JRM and Dorries) so she has just continued the slide. She's no as an adroit liar as BoJo so its goong worse for her.
    Yes, she has *accelerated* the slide. Shagger used to lie about ephemera. Damaging, anger-inducing but ultimately not threatening to the well-being of most voters. He left office with a terrible negative rating.

    And now we have Mistress Truss. Who killed the Queen. Crashed the pound. Exploded gilt yields and nearly took our pensions with them. Announced a vast inflationary borrowing binge for hedgie tax cuts imperilling anyone with a mortgage.

    And all through this its lie after lie after lie. Won't accept even now hat her plan was a disaster. Or that they did a massive uturn. Then they did a further uturn on part of it to go back to plan A which itself is part responsible for the economic FUBAR. Refuses to admit she is axing public spending and benefits. Despite it being blatantly obvious to all. Using the excuse "we can't reveal the budget" despite secnds before committing to the pensions triple lock.

    Its built on the wreckage of Boris. Only far stupider and more dangerous lies. The only way is down, because even when they drag her from office shortly the downward momentum will be hard to arrest.
    I agreed, as I normally do when you post, with all of what you wrote until you said “killed the Queen” which angered me. That’s out of order. There’s no point me calling out dangerous hyperbolic bullshit on the other side if I don’t call out on my own. And that was unnecessary.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,075
    edited October 6

    Jonathan said:

    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.

    This is Peak Starmer.
    Good morning

    There is only one way this is going and it is not in favour of Sturgeon as Scots return to their labour roots now they have an electable leader
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,461
    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    If only they'd got their pilots badge
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,854
    Roger said:

    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    If only they'd got their pilots badge
    Oh come on, they must have, the NHS has been winging it for years.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    This nursing strike will be a tricky one for the govt, hard to justify taking on the nurses.... such a powerful group has poor optics, its the nasty party all over again.... it reminds me of T May's blunt response in GE 2017 to a nurse on TV which didnt help her at all.

    25% of hospitals now have food banks for their staff
    That is damning. The government made a big thing of claiming success for increasing wages. A terrible look if it then gives its own staff significant real term pay cuts and creates a load of strikes.

    If it is unconscionable to give pensioners and other benefits claimants less than inflation increases, why is it fine to give nurses and other state workers less than half inflation increases?

    I don't get it. Give them all broadly the same, slightly bigger rises for the poorest/lowest earners and a bit less for the richest/highest earners.
    If they had got ahead of the issue a few months ago they no go t have been able to get away with that. They don’t have the authority now.


    The pay offers were made back in the summer, and were tiered, so Band 2 receptionists got 9%, and I got 4.3%. Junior doctors did particularly poorly at 2%, which is why they are ballotting for strike too.
    The RCN’s 17% ask feels like a lot though!
    I don't think they were expecting to get it - rather, they wanted to put pressure on the government to up their offer.
    If you ask for too much you risk it being rejected. I’m also annoyed by their focus on pay and ignoring the stability of a DB pension which is quite evident at the moment
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,449
    Key poll.
    People expect a Labour government next time by 52-28.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604

    Jonathan said:

    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.

    Pah.. you defended Brown when he was
    clearly unfit to be Prime Minister. Fortunately enough voters thought the same to get rid of him. His nasty little shit trick of reducing the Prime Minister's salary was typical of the man.
    I hope the old tunes give you comfort it must be rather painful right now. By all means have a pop at Brown for old times sake if it makes you feel better.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,075
    I cannot even image how the country is going to put up with the disaster that is Truss and Kwarteng for much longer

    I understand nurses are to strike for inflation plus 5% pay rise and it will be interesting just to see how Starmer reacts and how Sturgeon and Drakeford deal with effectively a 15% wage demand from them

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,453
    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:
    You realize that guy is nuts, right?
    Sorry, thought it was Scryver.
    Lol.
    Who is Scryver ?
    Scryver is one of the nutjob "everything is going according to Russia's amazing plan" blogger/Twitter guys.

    Here's from a recent missive:


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,281
    .
    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Hmm. I’ve been mulling over Truss’s speech.

    One thing that’s bugging me is her anecdote about going on a plane as a child and being given an “air hostess in training” badge, as opposed to her brothers who were given a “pilot in training” badge. Or something.

    It seems to have offended her, but frankly, she comes across as entitled and ungrateful.

    She comes across as unreasonable and frankly, nasty, towards people who tried to do something nice for her.

    Her parents. Her teachers. Some air hostess trying to be nice.

    The woman clearly has issues and projects them onto the world.

    I don’t like people like that. I don’t think other people do, either.

    It is an odd story. She was born in 1975, so to remember such an incident and to be aware enough to be offended, it would have to be mid Eighties or so. What airline was doing such a thing?
    TUI did it in 2018.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6086353/TUI-slammed-sexist-stickers-saying-future-captain-future-cabin-crew.html

    Jizzy Lizzy probably has great difficulty distinguishing between stories in the Daily Mail and reality.
    So Liz was 42 when she was stickered, though she used to look quite youthful.

    I don't think it was right of them. I don't think Liz would be good cabin crew. She would spend all her time in first class giving out English fizz, while sneering at the cattle class, telling them to earn more next time.
    It's a bit of a mahoosive jump to go from "TUI did it in 2018" to "It only ever happened in 2018."

    I bet it's been done on-and-off as long as there have been scheduled mass flights.
    Somewhere in the back of my head yesterday evening, and I wasn't particularly thinking about Truss's speech at the time, came the song:

    "I wish they all could be Caledonian girls"

    And, I thought, 'damn, BCal really did run that advert, didn't they!'

    EDIT: yes, they did

    https://youtu.be/SLpXKUIU9zs
    ... Roger ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,083

    I cannot even image how the country is going to put up with the disaster that is Truss and Kwarteng for much longer

    I understand nurses are to strike for inflation plus 5% pay rise and it will be interesting just to see how Starmer reacts and how Sturgeon and Drakeford deal with effectively a 15% wage demand from them

    Ms S and Mr D will be seeing what happens in the English NHS - it does affect the funding allocated centrally anyway.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,083

    Jonathan said:

    Isn’t it inevitable that Liz Truss will recover through dint of not appearing on our screens for a bit. As the polls turn she will claim momentum. Her cheerleaders in the Mail will claim popularity and we will be told she is winning. It is easy to predict and pretty dismal.

    Obviously then she will then confidently pop up on our screens give a speech and launch a policy and remind us all why she is unfit for office.

    This is Peak Starmer.
    Good morning

    There is only one way this is going and it is not in favour of Sturgeon as Scots return to their labour roots now they have an electable leader
    What Labour roots? Labour have started picking Orangemen as councillors. That would be unheard of in the old days.
This discussion has been closed.