I went to Tory conference at Birmingham. The Conservative Party has been smashed. Truss is finished and is on her way out. My new piece for Middle East Eye:
"Many Tory members are retired, and understandably terrified for their future because Kwarteng’s unforgivable financial buffoonery threatens pension funds with collapse. "
And they put her in there against all the advice of anyone with more than 2 functional braincells. This was a train-wreck that was totally avoidable and visible from a long, long way off.
The Tory Corbyn!
I am not sure how the retired are affected by their pension funds as they will already have their pensions
Nothing that has happened has made any difference to my private pension nor the terms of it
It will of course worry very many who are getting near to retirement
They could be drawing down SIPPs rather than having bought annuities. Lots of people are what with the annuity rates on offer these days.
Is that common, as it is 13 years since I retired and annuities seemed to be the norm
I am not obviously as upto date
I don't know anyone who takes an annuity now. I and my wife have drawdowns in addition to other investments.
The optimal for most would be a partial annuity, especially as rates rise again in the current climate. Maybe somewhere between 10-30%. Tax planning can make a lot of difference between various retirement options nowadays.
A girls' school in Iran brought a member of the IRGC-run Basij paramilitary to speak to students. The girls welcomed the speaker by taking off their headscarves & chanting "get lost, Basiji".
I am torn between admiring their courage and fearing the consequences.
There’s nothing scares the shit out of me like a group of teenage girls. They have a certain insolence about them, a real fuck-you attitude. Must be the raging hormones.
Voters now wanting Boris back already just a few weeks after he left No 10.
Do you think the Conservative parliamentary party will be glad they removed Boris Johnson from his position as party leader and Prime Minister, or regret having removed him?
Regret: 44% (+19 from 21 Jul) Glad: 24% (-33)
65% of Tory voters say they will regret removing Boris
They're telling her she can't have it because she "bores them". This is not on imo. It's capricious.
My view is that citizenship is a club. It's up to the members of the club who they admit.
I think there are two difficulties with that analogy -- the size of the "club", and the reach and importance of the activities under its control. As a club gets bigger, it gets more important that it has written rules to avoid arguments and unfairness. As the scale of what it controls grows and becomes more relevant to wider society, it becomes more important that it is not acting in an arbitrary, capricious or prejudiced way. And certainly by the time you're at the size of a nation and the activities under its control are as significant as those bestowed by citizenship I don't think it is at all sensible to consider the requirements to be unchanged from what we might expect of, say, a village running club with a dozen members.
Absolutely a nation has the right to set rules and requirements for who it admits as citizens. What gets my back up about that Swiss example is that it appears to be handling the process of admission to citizenship in as cavalier a manner as if it were as minor and unimportant as that little village running club.
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
How's it a flaw? Yes she's said that NIMBYs are a problem, and she's right to do so. And she's promised proposals (and given outlines) on fixing that problem, which would be great if it goes through.
The bigger problem is that the backbench rebels will probably defeat her reforms, as they did when Boris tried to get sensible zoning reforms through, in which case the Tories deserve to lose the next election.
The problem the Tory party has is build or trigger the building sufficient houses where they are needed and that seat is probably a "Home County Lib Dem*" win come the next election
* other Lib Dem parties with different policies are available where nimby votes aren't important...
They're in office, they're responsible.
If they succeed in getting the laws right so homes are built, then that may lead to a Lib Dem win.
If they fail to get the laws right so homes aren't built, then they deserve to lose the seat to the Lib Dems anyway.
If you're not going to use your limited time in office to do something for the good of the country, only to try to extend your limited time in office, then you don't deserve any time in the first place.
There is very little legislation or regulation against a vast amount of home building. The presumption just about anywhere for planning permission is that it will be granted.
Supply is not the problem, affordability (or conversely the IRR of the developers) is the problem.
You are tilting at windmills demanding that restrictions be removed when there are precious few hurdles to building more homes today.
I am afraid trying to point out that obvious truth to Bart is simply banging your head against a wall. I know, I have had this fight many times before. His perception of the scope and effect of planning laws is very far removed from reality.
The scope and effect of planning laws, as we've discussed before, is to put the power for developing homes into the hands of "developers" that can navigate those laws and can have the scale to do the burdens put upon them for an entire estate.
Issues like schools, services etc should be completely divorced from house building, no individual home is responsible for needing a school or any other service.
So who would pay for those services - if not the companies profiteering from the development???
The Council from Council Tax etc
More houses means more Council Tax means more funding for schools.
If an elderly couple die and their house is sold and is bought by someone with children then the demand for schools may change, but you don't expect them to build a new school for that home do you?
If a young couple buy a home, then live in it for fifty years, they may then need social care rather than schooling.
Demands change. The Council should handle that from its taxes for the services it provides.
The council is voted in by the residents so that they can make these decisions. It is democracy at work to disallow someone from building a multi-storey block of flats in a village field if the villagers don't want it to be built there and would have to pay, via their Council tax, if it was built.
And if those voters determined they don't want any black people in their village? Should that be voted for too?
If someone wants to build a block of flats on their own land then that is their own land, not the villagers land.
I thought you had an almost mystical respect for voting? Eg whenever I've suggested - as is my wont - that some things should be enshrined above and beyond the hurly burly of electoral politics you have always bridled.
I do.
If people want to create a law that allows NIMBYism, they should be allowed to do so. If people want to create a law that allows racism, they should be allowed to do so.
However I retain the right to vehemently oppose both. I can and do have my own opinions on what the law should be, while respecting others right to disagree with me.
In order to end racism or NIMBYism or sexism or any other destructive -ism we need to win the argument, not just have the law match our desires.
Well to take your example, I don't think a village should be able to ban black people from living there. Not even if it's a landslide vote by the residents in favour. We will have to agree to disagree on this matter. As on one or two others.
I don't think they should be able to either, but what I think may not win elections.
Don't get me wrong, I would be happy to have a national law preventing residents from blocking black people/developments etc in their area. If a black family wants to build a home on their own land, they absolutely should be able to, and no residents of the village should get a say to deny them that right.
We do have such a national law, I believe. Where we differ is you think the government should be able to scrap it if it has the requisite votes in the Commons - opening the way for these KKK villages to spring up all over the Black Forest (which I guess would then have to change its name) - whereas I think the government should not be able to do that, elected or not.
You must think Switzerland is the most dystopian state in Europe.
In Switzerland, locals can vote on whether someone can become a citizen and people of Gipf-Oberfric have had their say.
Nancy, who was born in the Netherlands, has campaigned for a long time against traditional Swiss cowbells, which animals wear to scare away predators and help farmers locate their livestock.
Tanja Suter, president of the local branch of the Swiss People's Party, explained the rejection, saying that Nancy has a "big mouth" and is annoyed by her campaigns.
"There are also Swiss who fight for the animal cause, but to be entitled to the passport, you have to show goodwill," Tanja tells local press.
"We do not want to give her this gift if she bores us and does not respect our traditions."
"Nancy has also objected to hunting, locals racing piglets and even the sound of the village's church bells."
I suspect Nancy has a few other issues as well.
Nancy sounds like a pain in the arse.
But withholding her citizenship is not proportionate. They should give Nancy a passport. I'm going to write to the Swiss Consulate.
I'm with the Swiss here. It's entirely proportionate. Citizenship isn't a right. You have to be prepared to be a bit Swiss to be given it.
They're telling her she can't have it because she "bores them". This is not on imo. It's capricious.
My view is that citizenship is a club. It's up to the members of the club who they admit.
You have to keep prejudice out of it though. You can slide into that if you take too much account of popular opinion in these matters.
Hm. Well we can make whatever rules we want for admission to our club. It's a bit presumptious of us to tell others who they should admit to theirs. Not least because allpwing membership of the club implies then giving a say in what the rules of the club are and who else gets admitted. In any case, being a persistent pain in the arse like this woman seems a sufficient reason to keep her out.
"Thanks for waiting, your call is important to us"
NO IT FUCKING ISN'T, YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED FOR TWO HOURS
Seriously. This is it. Like many on here I'm a higher rate taxpayer yet I've never really bothered to avoid tax, let alone evade it, I figure: I'm affluent, taxes are high buy fair, do my bit, it's easier and better
But if the UK state cannot do the basics like process a few documents in under a year, thus actually LOSING me money, to higher inflation and FOREIGN tax jurisdictions, then fuck the British state. No more of my money will it get
This is deliberate policy when confronted with the need to make savings, when all the obvious savings have already been made. This adds cost to the HMRC with no benefit to them, so an obvious target. The alternative is to fund the service properly, which the current government has no desire to do.
To be fair, I did just get through to them after nearly 2 hours
And the lady, after much faffing, admitted
"Something has gone wrong"
Grr....
Do you expect your own hotline or something?
Given that I am trying to persuade them to sign off on documents that mean I will pay tax on foreign income here in the UK, rather than, say, in Germany, France, Portugal, or Brazil, you'd think I'd get pretty quick service, not an 8 month delay on the documents, and several hours-long phone calls going nowhere
I am actually STRIVING to make sure His Majesty's Revenue gets more money! Pillocks
Poor show, yes. But what I do in such circs is put the phone on speaker and do other things, eg some housework. If you do that, there's nothing much lost. Much better than getting wound up. Also means when they finally pick up you're calm and focussed rather than angry and 'tight'. You can just give a little chuckle and say "about time, now then ... here's my issue".
For balance, some SNP people also trailing the polls hard
Wouldn't be surprised if we have a big lead for Indy (55+) and a Labour surge at the same time.
I'm guessing no change on independence (the dial's been more-or-less stuck on that topic for years, despite the Tory descent into profound uselessness and venality,) and only modest gains for Labour (because the SNP are virtually indestructible, so Labour are only going to gain from Tory direct switchers.) But I'm making these prognostications from the vicinity of Cambridge, so you're more likely to be right.
How's it a flaw? Yes she's said that NIMBYs are a problem, and she's right to do so. And she's promised proposals (and given outlines) on fixing that problem, which would be great if it goes through.
The bigger problem is that the backbench rebels will probably defeat her reforms, as they did when Boris tried to get sensible zoning reforms through, in which case the Tories deserve to lose the next election.
The problem the Tory party has is build or trigger the building sufficient houses where they are needed and that seat is probably a "Home County Lib Dem*" win come the next election
* other Lib Dem parties with different policies are available where nimby votes aren't important...
They're in office, they're responsible.
If they succeed in getting the laws right so homes are built, then that may lead to a Lib Dem win.
If they fail to get the laws right so homes aren't built, then they deserve to lose the seat to the Lib Dems anyway.
If you're not going to use your limited time in office to do something for the good of the country, only to try to extend your limited time in office, then you don't deserve any time in the first place.
There is very little legislation or regulation against a vast amount of home building. The presumption just about anywhere for planning permission is that it will be granted.
Supply is not the problem, affordability (or conversely the IRR of the developers) is the problem.
You are tilting at windmills demanding that restrictions be removed when there are precious few hurdles to building more homes today.
I am afraid trying to point out that obvious truth to Bart is simply banging your head against a wall. I know, I have had this fight many times before. His perception of the scope and effect of planning laws is very far removed from reality.
The scope and effect of planning laws, as we've discussed before, is to put the power for developing homes into the hands of "developers" that can navigate those laws and can have the scale to do the burdens put upon them for an entire estate.
Issues like schools, services etc should be completely divorced from house building, no individual home is responsible for needing a school or any other service.
So who would pay for those services - if not the companies profiteering from the development???
The Council from Council Tax etc
More houses means more Council Tax means more funding for schools.
If an elderly couple die and their house is sold and is bought by someone with children then the demand for schools may change, but you don't expect them to build a new school for that home do you?
If a young couple buy a home, then live in it for fifty years, they may then need social care rather than schooling.
Demands change. The Council should handle that from its taxes for the services it provides.
The council is voted in by the residents so that they can make these decisions. It is democracy at work to disallow someone from building a multi-storey block of flats in a village field if the villagers don't want it to be built there and would have to pay, via their Council tax, if it was built.
And if those voters determined they don't want any black people in their village? Should that be voted for too?
If someone wants to build a block of flats on their own land then that is their own land, not the villagers land.
I thought you had an almost mystical respect for voting? Eg whenever I've suggested - as is my wont - that some things should be enshrined above and beyond the hurly burly of electoral politics you have always bridled.
I do.
If people want to create a law that allows NIMBYism, they should be allowed to do so. If people want to create a law that allows racism, they should be allowed to do so.
However I retain the right to vehemently oppose both. I can and do have my own opinions on what the law should be, while respecting others right to disagree with me.
In order to end racism or NIMBYism or sexism or any other destructive -ism we need to win the argument, not just have the law match our desires.
Well to take your example, I don't think a village should be able to ban black people from living there. Not even if it's a landslide vote by the residents in favour. We will have to agree to disagree on this matter. As on one or two others.
I don't think they should be able to either, but what I think may not win elections.
Don't get me wrong, I would be happy to have a national law preventing residents from blocking black people/developments etc in their area. If a black family wants to build a home on their own land, they absolutely should be able to, and no residents of the village should get a say to deny them that right.
We do have such a national law, I believe. Where we differ is you think the government should be able to scrap it if it has the requisite votes in the Commons - opening the way for these KKK villages to spring up all over the Black Forest (which I guess would then have to change its name) - whereas I think the government should not be able to do that, elected or not.
You must think Switzerland is the most dystopian state in Europe.
In Switzerland, locals can vote on whether someone can become a citizen and people of Gipf-Oberfric have had their say.
Nancy, who was born in the Netherlands, has campaigned for a long time against traditional Swiss cowbells, which animals wear to scare away predators and help farmers locate their livestock.
Tanja Suter, president of the local branch of the Swiss People's Party, explained the rejection, saying that Nancy has a "big mouth" and is annoyed by her campaigns.
"There are also Swiss who fight for the animal cause, but to be entitled to the passport, you have to show goodwill," Tanja tells local press.
"We do not want to give her this gift if she bores us and does not respect our traditions."
"Nancy has also objected to hunting, locals racing piglets and even the sound of the village's church bells."
I suspect Nancy has a few other issues as well.
Nancy sounds like a pain in the arse.
But withholding her citizenship is not proportionate. They should give Nancy a passport. I'm going to write to the Swiss Consulate.
I'm with the Swiss here. It's entirely proportionate. Citizenship isn't a right. You have to be prepared to be a bit Swiss to be given it.
They're telling her she can't have it because she "bores them". This is not on imo. It's capricious.
My view is that citizenship is a club. It's up to the members of the club who they admit.
What they are saying is that aggressive attention seekers who want everything changed to suit them will get voted off the island.
In a communal workshop I used to go to, there was someone exactly like that. There was a vote and their door access got removed.
In any case, being a persistent pain in the arse like this woman seems a sufficient reason to keep her out.
I think that would be a more defensible stance if the Swiss had laws against being a persistent pain in the arse which they applied to citizens and non-citizens alike.
That's quite funny. I bristle slightly at the North of England being in the 'post-industrial depression' category - most of it is at least 'both of the above'. Also a pedant notes West Cumberland is also rugby league. Though the rugby league band in Lancashire and Yorkshire is too wide - doesn't extend that far north. (ISTR that this only applies to watching rugby - even in the rugby league heartlands I think at least as many people play rugby union than play rugby league. @dixiedean may have a viewon this!)
Yeah there’s plenty of Union clubs round my way. Castleford has even got one. Tiny compared to the League club though.
I went to Tory conference at Birmingham. The Conservative Party has been smashed. Truss is finished and is on her way out. My new piece for Middle East Eye:
"Many Tory members are retired, and understandably terrified for their future because Kwarteng’s unforgivable financial buffoonery threatens pension funds with collapse. "
And they put her in there against all the advice of anyone with more than 2 functional braincells. This was a train-wreck that was totally avoidable and visible from a long, long way off.
The Tory Corbyn!
I am not sure how the retired are affected by their pension funds as they will already have their pensions
Nothing that has happened has made any difference to my private pension nor the terms of it
It will of course worry very many who are getting near to retirement
They could be drawing down SIPPs rather than having bought annuities. Lots of people are what with the annuity rates on offer these days.
Is that common, as it is 13 years since I retired and annuities seemed to be the norm
I am not obviously as upto date
I don't know anyone who takes an annuity now. I and my wife have drawdowns in addition to other investments.
The optimal for most would be a partial annuity, especially as rates rise again in the current climate. Maybe somewhere between 10-30%. Tax planning can make a lot of difference between various retirement options nowadays.
Genes suggest an annuity should be my option of choice, but I prefer to maintain control.
Leon - I get your frustration and believe me there is a fair bit of embarrassment on the inside about it. I don't have an answer on why things are so bad. Whether it is working from home, reduced staff numbers or the fact that HMRC had to deal with furlough, self employed grants and much else during covid that's created a backlog.
LOL @ John Redwood on PM: local Conservative associations sometimes feel they shouldn't hog all the lovely housing development for their own area but should distribute the benefits of growth more widely.
I would be interested to see where the majority of new homes are being built - as in, do Conservative councils do more, or less.
There is growing despondency on Russian tv this evening and for the first time there is the sense that Putin is beginning to lose control of events. Quite a bit of direct criticism, albeit from openly fascist quarters, but still, its a first.
More interestingly it seems that the Chinese Party conference, which starts on the 16th, may be a point where the Chinese leadership decides to cut Putin loose. All teh factions of the party are ruthlessly rational, and they have seen that the West remains strong, so it is said that there is the potential for a move to repair relations, especially with Europe. There is apparently general anger that Russia is threatening with nukes, which is seen as incredibly reckless, and even Xi is backtracking on previous commitments to Putin. The abject nature of the "referendums" and the the fiasco of the Morgue-ilisation, togther with the growing defeat on the battlefield are all marking Putin as a loser in Chinese eyes. Meanwhile China needs some help to address their bank crisis, and being able to work with western financial agencies is growing ever more important to them. I think we can expect a lot more engagement from China over the course of the coming months, and although there is a certain amount of gritted teeth in Zhongnanha over Taiwan, there is also a pragmatic sense that China will need to be patient and that new threats have not delivered as much as previous engagement with Taipei. Of course the Congress may also deliver some negative surprises, however most analysts seem to think that the loss of face that Putin has given to China deserves more punishment than abstention at the UN.
We will see, but the outlook for Putin is growing darker by the hour.
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Research for YouGov for The Times showed the Scottish Conservatives attracting the lowest levels of support for almost eight years as Scottish Labour reaped the benefits of the collapse.
How's it a flaw? Yes she's said that NIMBYs are a problem, and she's right to do so. And she's promised proposals (and given outlines) on fixing that problem, which would be great if it goes through.
The bigger problem is that the backbench rebels will probably defeat her reforms, as they did when Boris tried to get sensible zoning reforms through, in which case the Tories deserve to lose the next election.
The problem the Tory party has is build or trigger the building sufficient houses where they are needed and that seat is probably a "Home County Lib Dem*" win come the next election
* other Lib Dem parties with different policies are available where nimby votes aren't important...
They're in office, they're responsible.
If they succeed in getting the laws right so homes are built, then that may lead to a Lib Dem win.
If they fail to get the laws right so homes aren't built, then they deserve to lose the seat to the Lib Dems anyway.
If you're not going to use your limited time in office to do something for the good of the country, only to try to extend your limited time in office, then you don't deserve any time in the first place.
There is very little legislation or regulation against a vast amount of home building. The presumption just about anywhere for planning permission is that it will be granted.
Supply is not the problem, affordability (or conversely the IRR of the developers) is the problem.
You are tilting at windmills demanding that restrictions be removed when there are precious few hurdles to building more homes today.
I am afraid trying to point out that obvious truth to Bart is simply banging your head against a wall. I know, I have had this fight many times before. His perception of the scope and effect of planning laws is very far removed from reality.
The scope and effect of planning laws, as we've discussed before, is to put the power for developing homes into the hands of "developers" that can navigate those laws and can have the scale to do the burdens put upon them for an entire estate.
Issues like schools, services etc should be completely divorced from house building, no individual home is responsible for needing a school or any other service.
So who would pay for those services - if not the companies profiteering from the development???
The Council from Council Tax etc
More houses means more Council Tax means more funding for schools.
If an elderly couple die and their house is sold and is bought by someone with children then the demand for schools may change, but you don't expect them to build a new school for that home do you?
If a young couple buy a home, then live in it for fifty years, they may then need social care rather than schooling.
Demands change. The Council should handle that from its taxes for the services it provides.
The council is voted in by the residents so that they can make these decisions. It is democracy at work to disallow someone from building a multi-storey block of flats in a village field if the villagers don't want it to be built there and would have to pay, via their Council tax, if it was built.
And if those voters determined they don't want any black people in their village? Should that be voted for too?
If someone wants to build a block of flats on their own land then that is their own land, not the villagers land.
I thought you had an almost mystical respect for voting? Eg whenever I've suggested - as is my wont - that some things should be enshrined above and beyond the hurly burly of electoral politics you have always bridled.
I do.
If people want to create a law that allows NIMBYism, they should be allowed to do so. If people want to create a law that allows racism, they should be allowed to do so.
However I retain the right to vehemently oppose both. I can and do have my own opinions on what the law should be, while respecting others right to disagree with me.
In order to end racism or NIMBYism or sexism or any other destructive -ism we need to win the argument, not just have the law match our desires.
Well to take your example, I don't think a village should be able to ban black people from living there. Not even if it's a landslide vote by the residents in favour. We will have to agree to disagree on this matter. As on one or two others.
I don't think they should be able to either, but what I think may not win elections.
Don't get me wrong, I would be happy to have a national law preventing residents from blocking black people/developments etc in their area. If a black family wants to build a home on their own land, they absolutely should be able to, and no residents of the village should get a say to deny them that right.
We do have such a national law, I believe. Where we differ is you think the government should be able to scrap it if it has the requisite votes in the Commons - opening the way for these KKK villages to spring up all over the Black Forest (which I guess would then have to change its name) - whereas I think the government should not be able to do that, elected or not.
You must think Switzerland is the most dystopian state in Europe.
In Switzerland, locals can vote on whether someone can become a citizen and people of Gipf-Oberfric have had their say.
Nancy, who was born in the Netherlands, has campaigned for a long time against traditional Swiss cowbells, which animals wear to scare away predators and help farmers locate their livestock.
Tanja Suter, president of the local branch of the Swiss People's Party, explained the rejection, saying that Nancy has a "big mouth" and is annoyed by her campaigns.
"There are also Swiss who fight for the animal cause, but to be entitled to the passport, you have to show goodwill," Tanja tells local press.
"We do not want to give her this gift if she bores us and does not respect our traditions."
"Nancy has also objected to hunting, locals racing piglets and even the sound of the village's church bells."
I suspect Nancy has a few other issues as well.
Nancy sounds like a pain in the arse.
But withholding her citizenship is not proportionate. They should give Nancy a passport. I'm going to write to the Swiss Consulate.
I'm with the Swiss here. It's entirely proportionate. Citizenship isn't a right. You have to be prepared to be a bit Swiss to be given it.
They're telling her she can't have it because she "bores them". This is not on imo. It's capricious.
My view is that citizenship is a club. It's up to the members of the club who they admit.
You have to keep prejudice out of it though. You can slide into that if you take too much account of popular opinion in these matters.
Hm. Well we can make whatever rules we want for admission to our club. It's a bit presumptious of us to tell others who they should admit to theirs. Not least because allpwing membership of the club implies then giving a say in what the rules of the club are and who else gets admitted. In any case, being a persistent pain in the arse like this woman seems a sufficient reason to keep her out.
I don't think they are expelling her, she can continue to live there, just as a Dutch citizen.
American lefty anti-gun freak calls for everyone to move closer to nuclear war
‘If we don't stop Putin in Ukraine he won't stop until he rebuilds the USSR. After Ukraine will be Poland. We absolutely can not let that happen. Millions will die if he is not stopped. We must make an example out of him.’
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Never been but the one on Dane Rd appears to have a very decent beer garden for when sunny
For balance, some SNP people also trailing the polls hard
Wouldn't be surprised if we have a big lead for Indy (55+) and a Labour surge at the same time.
I'm guessing no change on independence (the dial's been more-or-less stuck on that topic for years, despite the Tory descent into profound uselessness and venality,) and only modest gains for Labour (because the SNP are virtually indestructible, so Labour are only going to gain from Tory direct switchers.) But I'm making these prognostications from the vicinity of Cambridge, so you're more likely to be right.
Ah, looks like I may have been right after all. Bit of Unionist movement to Labour. SNP haven't moved at all and still miles ahead.
That's quite funny. I bristle slightly at the North of England being in the 'post-industrial depression' category - most of it is at least 'both of the above'. Also a pedant notes West Cumberland is also rugby league. Though the rugby league band in Lancashire and Yorkshire is too wide - doesn't extend that far north. (ISTR that this only applies to watching rugby - even in the rugby league heartlands I think at least as many people play rugby union than play rugby league. @dixiedean may have a viewon this!)
Yeah there’s plenty of Union clubs round my way. Castleford has even got one. Tiny compared to the League club though.
Well yes, tiny in terms of audience, but what about in terms of participants?
Stands to reason really. As a professional game, post-split league was concerned wuth growing an audience, union with providing an enjoyable afternoon for its participants.
To my eye league had always been a bit limited and repetitive as a spectacle compared to union, but I accept that's a) driven by familiarity with union as a player, and b) not necessarily a widespread view among those who enjoy both codes.
Was busy earlier when Truss' speech was on. A few good bits on her background catching up on iplayer but my goodness the delivery is awful and wooden.
They make even IDS or May speeches seem like passionate oratory by comparison
The problem you have is the toxic behaviour of your hero Johnson has plunged the party into this existential crisis, to which you are part of the problem as you are one of many different factions pulling each other apart in a deathly embrace
The party is heading to oblivion and to be honest it only has itself to blame and you are part of the problem
I have no sympathy and await PM Starmer
Bye then, I always said you would go back to Labour as you did under Blair, no surprise there
Is this supposed to be an insult?
It is the doctrine of purity which questions even the premise that you are not tribal and can think for yourself
@HYUFD has this strange attitude that anyone voting for another party is a traitor to the cause even though it was in the country's best interests
Mind you do not ask how he came to vote for Plaid as that is not counted
He's voted for Plaid? That's quite amazing.
I voted for every Tory candidate on the town council ballot paper ie 4. However I had 6 votes and on principle always use all my votes
Quite right! At our last local election, STV, we had the choice of 12 candidates for 5 councillors. I voted for both Conservatives - in 11th and 12th places.
We have I'm afraid. I think polls have started to lose their shock factor.
I don't think we've experienced anything like this since the Cleggasm. That was rather short lived of course.
Poll leads of 30-plus are unsustainable for very long. All other things being equal I would expect them to drop back to around the 20 mark. Very hard to see the Tories coming back from that though, so the 17% OGH quotes in the header looks a bit high.
I would certainly be a seller of Tory Majority at current odds.
I went to Tory conference at Birmingham. The Conservative Party has been smashed. Truss is finished and is on her way out. My new piece for Middle East Eye:
"Many Tory members are retired, and understandably terrified for their future because Kwarteng’s unforgivable financial buffoonery threatens pension funds with collapse. "
And they put her in there against all the advice of anyone with more than 2 functional braincells. This was a train-wreck that was totally avoidable and visible from a long, long way off.
The Tory Corbyn!
I am not sure how the retired are affected by their pension funds as they will already have their pensions
Nothing that has happened has made any difference to my private pension nor the terms of it
It will of course worry very many who are getting near to retirement
They could be drawing down SIPPs rather than having bought annuities. Lots of people are what with the annuity rates on offer these days.
Is that common, as it is 13 years since I retired and annuities seemed to be the norm
I am not obviously as upto date
I don't know anyone who takes an annuity now. I and my wife have drawdowns in addition to other investments.
The optimal for most would be a partial annuity, especially as rates rise again in the current climate. Maybe somewhere between 10-30%. Tax planning can make a lot of difference between various retirement options nowadays.
You can choose to convert your drawdown fund to an annuity at some point in the future, if annuity rates and personal circumstances make it a sensible choice.
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
I'm not that surprised they are still going.
As you say, the politics are incidental. I believe the manager of the Honiton one caused a very minor stir by voting Lib Dem at the by-election, but it's perfectly possible he was never a Tory (or at least a particularly commited one).
Prices tend to be reasonable and, in places like seaside towns or city centres, membership clubs are a bit more civilised on a summer evening. Indeed, a lot of pubs do cater to the rowdier, younger crowd.
In terms of slightly arguably naff entertainment, lots of people quite enjoy a bog standard pub singer - you're not forced to talk while the entertainment is on and it provokes conversation when they're off for a fag out back (are they any good, what do you think of the song choice etc). A lot of people are quite lonely, and we have an aging population. It may not be for you, and isn't for me (now, at least). But I get it, and don't think it's necessarily a dying market albeit clearly political clubs aren't what they were 50+ years ago.
I've got a Royal British Legion quite near me. I'm not contemplating joining now, but give it 20 years and yes, I very possibly would.
Hang on the sage of Sweden, a true Scotch expert, said Starmer was a dud.
Satisfaction with Sir Keir Starmer, the UK Labour leader, has increased to +13, making him more popular in Scotland than Nicola Sturgeon, the first minister, despite her improving her score by two points to +11 since the last research by The Times.
Has anyone else noticed that Leon is an anagram of Elon. I first realised this when mentally remarking on the Ukraine situation using the phrase "pound shop" as an adjective.
Hang on the sage of Sweden, a true Scotch expert, said Starmer was a dud.
Satisfaction with Sir Keir Starmer, the UK Labour leader, has increased to +13, making him more popular in Scotland than Nicola Sturgeon, the first minister, despite her improving her score by two points to +11 since the last research by The Times.
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Never been but the one on Dane Rd appears to have a very decent beer garden for when sunny
That's the one I see most often advertising unappealing nights out (are we the only example of two pbers living on the same road I wonder?) But I have been a couple of times. Not on a Saturday night: I've been to a couple of Christmas parties there that people round here have organised. It's fine, for a drink, and no doubt if you're a member it's good to see the faces you know. That one also has a nice crown green bowls pitch (is that what you call them?) whose team I understand are quite active. ISTR the current incarnation of the club owes a lot to the snooker player Shaun Murphy who was looking for somewhere local to ply his trade when he lived in Sale - I think he put quite a lot in and may even have been the driving force when they Con club moved from the centre of Sale in, ooh, lets say, the noughties.
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Recently went back to one of the Con Clubs in Gosport for the first time in, ooh, thirty years? Much the same crowd as before, just much older.
I suspect it's part of a wider trend- all those neighborhood affiliations are growing old and few are refreshing. Churches, community associations... They're all struggling and probably dying.
Some of that is us finding our society elsewhere (like here), some of it is work and commuting taking up so much time. But ultimately, younger generations don't feel the somewhereness of their elders. And whilst that's probably a gain overall, we also lose something.
I went to Tory conference at Birmingham. The Conservative Party has been smashed. Truss is finished and is on her way out. My new piece for Middle East Eye:
"Many Tory members are retired, and understandably terrified for their future because Kwarteng’s unforgivable financial buffoonery threatens pension funds with collapse. "
And they put her in there against all the advice of anyone with more than 2 functional braincells. This was a train-wreck that was totally avoidable and visible from a long, long way off.
The Tory Corbyn!
I am not sure how the retired are affected by their pension funds as they will already have their pensions
Nothing that has happened has made any difference to my private pension nor the terms of it
It will of course worry very many who are getting near to retirement
They could be drawing down SIPPs rather than having bought annuities. Lots of people are what with the annuity rates on offer these days.
Is that common, as it is 13 years since I retired and annuities seemed to be the norm
I am not obviously as upto date
I don't know anyone who takes an annuity now. I and my wife have drawdowns in addition to other investments.
The optimal for most would be a partial annuity, especially as rates rise again in the current climate. Maybe somewhere between 10-30%. Tax planning can make a lot of difference between various retirement options nowadays.
You can choose to convert your drawdown fund to an annuity at some point in the future, if annuity rates and personal circumstances make it a sensible choice.
One of the advantages of an annuity over drawdown is it takes away the chance of very bad decisions in the future. Some forms of dementia can lead to gambling addiction and lack of judgement. As we get older we are much more likely to get scammed and for bigger amounts.
Generally I prefer the idea of maintaining personal control as others have mentioned but there are definitely benefits to annuities that make a mixed portfolio of annuity and drawdown appealing.
Support for independence has increased by five points to 43 per cent, while backing for the Union dropped by one point to 45 per cent, with 7 per cent undecided.
With “don’t knows” removed, this means the constitutional question remains on a knife-edge: 49 per cent favour independence for Scotland and 51 per cent favour remaining part of the UK.
Support for independence has increased by five points to 43 per cent, while backing for the Union dropped by one point to 45 per cent, with 7 per cent undecided.
With “don’t knows” removed, this means the constitutional question remains on a knife-edge: 49 per cent favour independence for Scotland and 51 per cent favour remaining part of the UK.
Shockingly remiss of you not to add the DKs to the No leger.
Support for independence has increased by five points to 43 per cent, while backing for the Union dropped by one point to 45 per cent, with 7 per cent undecided.
With “don’t knows” removed, this means the constitutional question remains on a knife-edge: 49 per cent favour independence for Scotland and 51 per cent favour remaining part of the UK.
Shockingly remiss of you not to add the DKs to the No leger.
Trans Activists on Twitter. As far as I can see, this stuff is normal tactics in some circles.
Thread from 'gender critical' activist Caroline Farrow about the police turning up at her door at teatime to arrest her for alleged 'malicious online communication'. In front of her children. https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1577092705154666496
And another perhaps more PB one from her barrister about harassment he has been subjected to since he has been representing her, including multiple complaints to legal authorities and several to police. Consider further legal measures to stem the tide. Also introduced me to the world of unregistered barristers - which sounds like a parallel to unregistered architects. https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1577441968497561606
He just received enough compensation from the Met to build a swimming pool.
One of the Farrow coppers remarked that she had been arrrested for 'writing insulting things on the internet. Which is not an offence (if I understand my case law correctly.)
There's an Augean stables to be cleared out somewhere. Where's Heracles?
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Recently went back to one of the Con Clubs in Gosport for the first time in, ooh, thirty years? Much the same crowd as before, just much older.
I suspect it's part of a wider trend- all those neighborhood affiliations are growing old and few are refreshing. Churches, community associations... They're all struggling and probably dying.
Some of that is us finding our society elsewhere (like here), some of it is work and commuting taking up so much time. But ultimately, younger generations don't feel the somewhereness of their elders. And whilst that's probably a gain overall, we also lose something.
Young people are also drinking less, and that has to affect the places they go. Even if gyms and yoga classes are ultimately a global culture, whereas the pub offering was national culture.
That's quite funny. I bristle slightly at the North of England being in the 'post-industrial depression' category - most of it is at least 'both of the above'. Also a pedant notes West Cumberland is also rugby league. Though the rugby league band in Lancashire and Yorkshire is too wide - doesn't extend that far north. (ISTR that this only applies to watching rugby - even in the rugby league heartlands I think at least as many people play rugby union than play rugby league. @dixiedean may have a viewon this!)
Indeed. You are probably correct. RU has always had the social side. Most amateur RL is like soccer. Turn up train or play. Go home. There isn't the lengthy session in a decent clubhouse afterwards. There never was a great distinction, or enmity even in the bad old days, though. If they'd followed Twickenham and banned everyone who'd ever played league, there wouldn't have been an RU XV to raise in Wigan or St. Helens or Wakefield. A great many still play both. Especially now league is summer. I think it makes you better at both.
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Recently went back to one of the Con Clubs in Gosport for the first time in, ooh, thirty years? Much the same crowd as before, just much older.
I suspect it's part of a wider trend- all those neighborhood affiliations are growing old and few are refreshing. Churches, community associations... They're all struggling and probably dying.
Some of that is us finding our society elsewhere (like here), some of it is work and commuting taking up so much time. But ultimately, younger generations don't feel the somewhereness of their elders. And whilst that's probably a gain overall, we also lose something.
Young people are also drinking less, and that has to affect the places they go. Even if gyms and yoga classes are ultimately a global culture, whereas the pub offering was national culture.
I wonder if the trend is also to do with Nimbys forcing young people to move out?
So if there’s no growth it will be the fault of the alleged anti-growth coalition .
Truss is lining up the scapegoats for the right wing press to feed on . Does that mean we get shipped off to Rwanda or will the stain on humanity Braverman just put us against a wall and shot for not believing in the Dear Leaders project .
As there were never 40 hospitals anyway, who cares?
It was 3 new hospitals! 25 rebuilds and 12 new wings. Reminds me of Triggers Broom.
Rebuilds are new hospitals though.
Denying that they are new, is the whole Triggers Broom joke.
Replacing the interior of an old out of date existing hospital building would generally be considered as maintenance. It does not add capacity in the same way a new hospital does. With an ageing and growing population more than 3 new hospitals in a decade would perhaps have been helpful.
It depends if you're just talking cosmetic refurbishments or something more serious.
A rebuild of a crumbling hospital into a new hospital that's at high standards, and potentially has better equipment or capacity, is absolutely a new hospital though. If it replaces the old hospital there's no net extra hospitals, but you have the staff of the old hospital able to staff the new one which might be able to work better.
Lets say old crumbling hospital has an output of 0.5 and a new one delivers 1.0
Replace crumbling one with new one in same building - output increases from 0.5 to 1 New one and keep crumbling one - output increases from 0.5 to 1.5
They are clearly not the same thing, so in resource discussions are worthy of separate descriptions so that we can know whether we are going from 0.5 to 1 or 0.5 to 1.5.
If my wife buys a new dress, she has a new dress.
If she bins an old dress, she can still go out in a new dress.
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Recently went back to one of the Con Clubs in Gosport for the first time in, ooh, thirty years? Much the same crowd as before, just much older.
I suspect it's part of a wider trend- all those neighborhood affiliations are growing old and few are refreshing. Churches, community associations... They're all struggling and probably dying.
Some of that is us finding our society elsewhere (like here), some of it is work and commuting taking up so much time. But ultimately, younger generations don't feel the somewhereness of their elders. And whilst that's probably a gain overall, we also lose something.
Young people are also drinking less, and that has to affect the places they go. Even if gyms and yoga classes are ultimately a global culture, whereas the pub offering was national culture.
I wonder if the trend is also to do with Nimbys forcing young people to move out?
They gotta live somewhere, though possibly in their parents' homes, which surely reduces alcohol consumption. In addition, many of the young people are from somewhere else, which affects their somewhereness.
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Recently went back to one of the Con Clubs in Gosport for the first time in, ooh, thirty years? Much the same crowd as before, just much older.
I suspect it's part of a wider trend- all those neighborhood affiliations are growing old and few are refreshing. Churches, community associations... They're all struggling and probably dying.
Some of that is us finding our society elsewhere (like here), some of it is work and commuting taking up so much time. But ultimately, younger generations don't feel the somewhereness of their elders. And whilst that's probably a gain overall, we also lose something.
As there were never 40 hospitals anyway, who cares?
It was 3 new hospitals! 25 rebuilds and 12 new wings. Reminds me of Triggers Broom.
Rebuilds are new hospitals though.
Denying that they are new, is the whole Triggers Broom joke.
Replacing the interior of an old out of date existing hospital building would generally be considered as maintenance. It does not add capacity in the same way a new hospital does. With an ageing and growing population more than 3 new hospitals in a decade would perhaps have been helpful.
It depends if you're just talking cosmetic refurbishments or something more serious.
A rebuild of a crumbling hospital into a new hospital that's at high standards, and potentially has better equipment or capacity, is absolutely a new hospital though. If it replaces the old hospital there's no net extra hospitals, but you have the staff of the old hospital able to staff the new one which might be able to work better.
Lets say old crumbling hospital has an output of 0.5 and a new one delivers 1.0
Replace crumbling one with new one in same building - output increases from 0.5 to 1 New one and keep crumbling one - output increases from 0.5 to 1.5
They are clearly not the same thing, so in resource discussions are worthy of separate descriptions so that we can know whether we are going from 0.5 to 1 or 0.5 to 1.5.
If my wife buys a new dress, she has a new dress.
If she bins an old dress, she can still go out in a new dress.
I’m more shocked that despite the Tories being crap, still pretty split in terms of Indy
Would suggest Starmer would be very happy with that. Sturgeon dominating still but sort of stuck. Fascinating
I wonder if a change of Government is starting to get priced in to a degree?
In terms of attitude to a big constitutional change, there's a world of difference between thinking the Government is crap and likely to be in power for many years to come on the one hand, and thinking it's crap and on the way out on the other.
That's quite funny. I bristle slightly at the North of England being in the 'post-industrial depression' category - most of it is at least 'both of the above'. Also a pedant notes West Cumberland is also rugby league. Though the rugby league band in Lancashire and Yorkshire is too wide - doesn't extend that far north. (ISTR that this only applies to watching rugby - even in the rugby league heartlands I think at least as many people play rugby union than play rugby league. @dixiedean may have a viewon this!)
Indeed. You are probably correct. RU has always had the social side. Most amateur RL is like soccer. Turn up train or play. Go home. There isn't the lengthy session in a decent clubhouse afterwards. There never was a great distinction, or enmity even in the bad old days, though. If they'd followed Twickenham and banned everyone who'd ever played league, there wouldn't have been an RU XV to raise in Wigan or St. Helens or Wakefield. A great many still play both. Especially now league is summer. I think it makes you better at both.
My Union coach, from S Yorks, said it was common for him and his mates to play the odd game of League under assumed names. Everyone knew it happened.
To be fair, young people cross-subsidise so much else (national insurance, NHS) that you can't blame them for opting out of any cross-subsidy that they possibly can (high street banks, pubs).
That's quite funny. I bristle slightly at the North of England being in the 'post-industrial depression' category - most of it is at least 'both of the above'. Also a pedant notes West Cumberland is also rugby league. Though the rugby league band in Lancashire and Yorkshire is too wide - doesn't extend that far north. (ISTR that this only applies to watching rugby - even in the rugby league heartlands I think at least as many people play rugby union than play rugby league. @dixiedean may have a viewon this!)
Indeed. You are probably correct. RU has always had the social side. Most amateur RL is like soccer. Turn up train or play. Go home. There isn't the lengthy session in a decent clubhouse afterwards. There never was a great distinction, or enmity even in the bad old days, though. If they'd followed Twickenham and banned everyone who'd ever played league, there wouldn't have been an RU XV to raise in Wigan or St. Helens or Wakefield. A great many still play both. Especially now league is summer. I think it makes you better at both.
I don't think there was any great emnity the other way at the grass roots level either. When I played in the 80s and 90s we used to play league in training - as you say, made you better at certain skills. And there was always interest and enthusiasm for what was going on north of the Manchester Ship Canal (at least, before leagur disappeared loke so much sport into the obscurity of sky sports.)
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Recently went back to one of the Con Clubs in Gosport for the first time in, ooh, thirty years? Much the same crowd as before, just much older.
I suspect it's part of a wider trend- all those neighborhood affiliations are growing old and few are refreshing. Churches, community associations... They're all struggling and probably dying.
Some of that is us finding our society elsewhere (like here), some of it is work and commuting taking up so much time. But ultimately, younger generations don't feel the somewhereness of their elders. And whilst that's probably a gain overall, we also lose something.
As my mid 40s become my late 40s I yearn for somewhereness. I envy people who are rooted in a few square miles and have all they ever want or need there. I'm coming round to seeing the attraction. I'm still not signing up for anything which involves watching a professional singer though.
Is Leon going to be crapping himself about the Apocalypse or HMRC tonight? Or maybe both?
When your last moments on earth before your eyeballs melt are spent on hold to HMRC rather than watching young Macedonians women with your binoculars I can feel why he is on a downer this evening.
As there were never 40 hospitals anyway, who cares?
It was 3 new hospitals! 25 rebuilds and 12 new wings. Reminds me of Triggers Broom.
Rebuilds are new hospitals though.
Denying that they are new, is the whole Triggers Broom joke.
Replacing the interior of an old out of date existing hospital building would generally be considered as maintenance. It does not add capacity in the same way a new hospital does. With an ageing and growing population more than 3 new hospitals in a decade would perhaps have been helpful.
It depends if you're just talking cosmetic refurbishments or something more serious.
A rebuild of a crumbling hospital into a new hospital that's at high standards, and potentially has better equipment or capacity, is absolutely a new hospital though. If it replaces the old hospital there's no net extra hospitals, but you have the staff of the old hospital able to staff the new one which might be able to work better.
Lets say old crumbling hospital has an output of 0.5 and a new one delivers 1.0
Replace crumbling one with new one in same building - output increases from 0.5 to 1 New one and keep crumbling one - output increases from 0.5 to 1.5
They are clearly not the same thing, so in resource discussions are worthy of separate descriptions so that we can know whether we are going from 0.5 to 1 or 0.5 to 1.5.
If my wife buys a new dress, she has a new dress.
If she bins an old dress, she can still go out in a new dress.
What happens when you promise to buy her a new dress, but instead take one of her old ones, sew some new buttons on and say it might be ready for her to wear by 2029 if the budget allows?
That's quite funny. I bristle slightly at the North of England being in the 'post-industrial depression' category - most of it is at least 'both of the above'. Also a pedant notes West Cumberland is also rugby league. Though the rugby league band in Lancashire and Yorkshire is too wide - doesn't extend that far north. (ISTR that this only applies to watching rugby - even in the rugby league heartlands I think at least as many people play rugby union than play rugby league. @dixiedean may have a viewon this!)
Indeed. You are probably correct. RU has always had the social side. Most amateur RL is like soccer. Turn up train or play. Go home. There isn't the lengthy session in a decent clubhouse afterwards. There never was a great distinction, or enmity even in the bad old days, though. If they'd followed Twickenham and banned everyone who'd ever played league, there wouldn't have been an RU XV to raise in Wigan or St. Helens or Wakefield. A great many still play both. Especially now league is summer. I think it makes you better at both.
My Union coach, from S Yorks, said it was common for him and his mates to play the odd game of League under assumed names. Everyone knew it happened.
Strangely, despite being in what you'd expect to be a league area, Doncaster has a much better Union side.
Sadly they were denied promotion to the Premier league through having a small stadium and not being bust.
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
As there were never 40 hospitals anyway, who cares?
It was 3 new hospitals! 25 rebuilds and 12 new wings. Reminds me of Triggers Broom.
Rebuilds are new hospitals though.
Denying that they are new, is the whole Triggers Broom joke.
Replacing the interior of an old out of date existing hospital building would generally be considered as maintenance. It does not add capacity in the same way a new hospital does. With an ageing and growing population more than 3 new hospitals in a decade would perhaps have been helpful.
It depends if you're just talking cosmetic refurbishments or something more serious.
A rebuild of a crumbling hospital into a new hospital that's at high standards, and potentially has better equipment or capacity, is absolutely a new hospital though. If it replaces the old hospital there's no net extra hospitals, but you have the staff of the old hospital able to staff the new one which might be able to work better.
Lets say old crumbling hospital has an output of 0.5 and a new one delivers 1.0
Replace crumbling one with new one in same building - output increases from 0.5 to 1 New one and keep crumbling one - output increases from 0.5 to 1.5
They are clearly not the same thing, so in resource discussions are worthy of separate descriptions so that we can know whether we are going from 0.5 to 1 or 0.5 to 1.5.
If my wife buys a new dress, she has a new dress.
If she bins an old dress, she can still go out in a new dress.
What happens when you promise to buy her a new dress, but instead take one of her old ones, sew some new buttons on and say it might be ready for her to wear by 2029 if the budget allows?
If I made a worn out dress into a new one, she'd probably be impressed I'd figured out how to sew.
Unless I wrecked a dress that didn't need fixing up, in which case I'd probably be sleeping on the couch.
Speaking of polls and elections, a female Prime Minister going for an early election....
Not Liz Truss but Mette Frederiksen who has called a snap poll for the Folketing on November 1st which of course clashes with the Melbourne Cup.
The latest Megafon poll (fieldwork today) so conducted after yesterday's announcement had (changes from 2019 election):
Social Democrats: 25.4% (-0.5) Venstre: 13.0% (-10.4) Conservative: 11.6% (+5.0) Denmark Democrats: 9.7% (new) Socialist People's Party: 8.9% (+1.2) Red-Green Alliance: 7.9% (+1.0) Moderates: 6.2% (new) Liberal Alliance: 4.5% (+2.2) The New Right: 4.4% (+2.0) Radikale Venstre: 4.1% (-4.5) Dansk Folkeparti: 2.0% (-6.7)
That's everyone above the 2% threshold. Totalling up the votes between all the parties (including those under the 2% threshold) and the centre-left bloc has a 1.3% lead but that is cut to 1.1% with parties just over 2% and of course the Dansk Folkeparti is right on the brink of representation.
In terms of seats, the projection is 83 for the centre-left and 81 for the centre-right and holding the balance is the new Moderates Party led, not by Birgitte Nyborg as I had expected but by former PM Lars-Lokke Rasmussen. His party would win 6.2% of the vote and 11 seats on the Megafon numbers.
Rasmussen split off from Venstre but he's picked his words very carefully and has not committed to either side. Can we see him in a Government with the Denmark Democrats or is he more likely to back the Social Democrats?
That's quite funny. I bristle slightly at the North of England being in the 'post-industrial depression' category - most of it is at least 'both of the above'. Also a pedant notes West Cumberland is also rugby league. Though the rugby league band in Lancashire and Yorkshire is too wide - doesn't extend that far north. (ISTR that this only applies to watching rugby - even in the rugby league heartlands I think at least as many people play rugby union than play rugby league. @dixiedean may have a viewon this!)
Yeah there’s plenty of Union clubs round my way. Castleford has even got one. Tiny compared to the League club though.
Well yes, tiny in terms of audience, but what about in terms of participants?
Stands to reason really. As a professional game, post-split league was concerned wuth growing an audience, union with providing an enjoyable afternoon for its participants.
To my eye league had always been a bit limited and repetitive as a spectacle compared to union, but I accept that's a) driven by familiarity with union as a player, and b) not necessarily a widespread view among those who enjoy both codes.
Not got a horse in this but RU always looked more fun to play while RL is so much quicker and more entertaining to watch.
Has anyone else noticed that Leon is an anagram of Elon. I first realised this when mentally remarking on the Ukraine situation using the phrase "pound shop" as an adjective.
It’s also an anagram of Noel, as in daytime TV great Edmonds.
'Ministers have stepped back from mooted plans to launch a public information campaign to encourage households to reduce their energy use this winter.
A campaign asking households to turn their thermostats down and use their dishwashers and washing machines at times when energy demand is lower have been discussed between the business department, energy companies and the network operator National Grid.
However, business department on Wednesday said there are now “no plans for the government to tell the public to reduce usage for the sake of our energy supplies”.'
Well - I know quite a few who would be upset. That's the nature of the town. However, its membership trends extremely old (like much of the town and indeed most of the Cons)
Con clubs are baffling beasts. It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding. Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
Round here its lawn bowls!
Round here, it's miners' social and welfare, and it's been decades since there was any serious mining, the odd opencast aside.
Comments
https://twitter.com/magnusllewellin/status/1577717205126582277?t=YFTtU4KOQoA3d8DHRg87IA&s=19
Wouldn't be surprised if we have a big lead for Indy (55+) and a Labour surge at the same time.
Good luck to them.
Absolutely a nation has the right to set rules and requirements for who it admits as citizens. What gets my back up about that Swiss example is that it appears to be handling the process of admission to citizenship in as cavalier a manner as if it were as minor and unimportant as that little village running club.
In any case, being a persistent pain in the arse like this woman seems a sufficient reason to keep her out.
Derrrr
It’s still pitiful
In a communal workshop I used to go to, there was someone exactly like that. There was a vote and their door access got removed.
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104
More interestingly it seems that the Chinese Party conference, which starts on the 16th, may be a point where the Chinese leadership decides to cut Putin loose. All teh factions of the party are ruthlessly rational, and they have seen that the West remains strong, so it is said that there is the potential for a move to repair relations, especially with Europe. There is apparently general anger that Russia is threatening with nukes, which is seen as incredibly reckless, and even Xi is backtracking on previous commitments to Putin. The abject nature of the "referendums" and the the fiasco of the Morgue-ilisation, togther with the growing defeat on the battlefield are all marking Putin as a loser in Chinese eyes. Meanwhile China needs some help to address their bank crisis, and being able to work with western financial agencies is growing ever more important to them. I think we can expect a lot more engagement from China over the course of the coming months, and although there is a certain amount of gritted teeth in Zhongnanha over Taiwan, there is also a pragmatic sense that China will need to be patient and that new threats have not delivered as much as previous engagement with Taipei. Of course the Congress may also deliver some negative surprises, however most analysts seem to think that the loss of face that Putin has given to China deserves more punishment than abstention at the UN.
We will see, but the outlook for Putin is growing darker by the hour.
I don't think we've experienced anything like this since the Cleggasm. That was rather short lived of course.
It's astonishing that they're still going frankly. They are, at bottom, social clubs, and the political affiliation is almost incidental. My parents used to drink in one back in the 80s when pubs in the suburbs which exceeded the bog standard were rare beasts indeed. (I have been in the odd Con club as an adult and they are exactly the same, down to tye smell - albeit less smokey nowadays.) But the night out they offer - an evening watching a selection of adequate singers singing some lowest common denominator pop songs - how is there still a market for this? If I want mass market entertainment I have a telly and an internet at home. If I want conversation and conviviality I go somewhere without someone singing needlessly loudly at me. Who wants this? Clearly not nobody. But the market for it is surely receding.
Con clubs do tend to continue to offer an oppprtunity for snooker, which was what initially took my Dad to our local Con club when I was small.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-support-collapses-in-scotland-ltwqscv03
Indy doesn’t look to have changed much
‘If we don't stop Putin in Ukraine he won't stop until he rebuilds the USSR. After Ukraine will be Poland. We absolutely can not let that happen. Millions will die if he is not stopped. We must make an example out of him.’
https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/1577628899785117696?s=61&t=xLFeuFn9Vo1vXufw_hFDOQ
Stands to reason really. As a professional game, post-split league was concerned wuth growing an audience, union with providing an enjoyable afternoon for its participants.
To my eye league had always been a bit limited and repetitive as a spectacle compared to union, but I accept that's a) driven by familiarity with union as a player, and b) not necessarily a widespread view among those who enjoy both codes.
The Chinese foreign minister's visit to the US yesterday has been reported as an attempt to repair relations with the west.
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1577725424054013971?t=6WqD1tRFQrijt9glk5JXfw&s=19
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/the-chinese-gooseberry-becomes-the-kiwifruit#:~:text=15 June 1959&text=The prominent produce company Turners,fruit marketed as 'Zespri'.
I would certainly be a seller of Tory Majority at current odds.
As you say, the politics are incidental. I believe the manager of the Honiton one caused a very minor stir by voting Lib Dem at the by-election, but it's perfectly possible he was never a Tory (or at least a particularly commited one).
Prices tend to be reasonable and, in places like seaside towns or city centres, membership clubs are a bit more civilised on a summer evening. Indeed, a lot of pubs do cater to the rowdier, younger crowd.
In terms of slightly arguably naff entertainment, lots of people quite enjoy a bog standard pub singer - you're not forced to talk while the entertainment is on and it provokes conversation when they're off for a fag out back (are they any good, what do you think of the song choice etc). A lot of people are quite lonely, and we have an aging population. It may not be for you, and isn't for me (now, at least). But I get it, and don't think it's necessarily a dying market albeit clearly political clubs aren't what they were 50+ years ago.
I've got a Royal British Legion quite near me. I'm not contemplating joining now, but give it 20 years and yes, I very possibly would.
Satisfaction with Sir Keir Starmer, the UK Labour leader, has increased to +13, making him more popular in Scotland than Nicola Sturgeon, the first minister, despite her improving her score by two points to +11 since the last research by The Times.
But I have been a couple of times. Not on a Saturday night: I've been to a couple of Christmas parties there that people round here have organised. It's fine, for a drink, and no doubt if you're a member it's good to see the faces you know.
That one also has a nice crown green bowls pitch (is that what you call them?) whose team I understand are quite active.
ISTR the current incarnation of the club owes a lot to the snooker player Shaun Murphy who was looking for somewhere local to ply his trade when he lived in Sale - I think he put quite a lot in and may even have been the driving force when they Con club moved from the centre of Sale in, ooh, lets say, the noughties.
I suspect it's part of a wider trend- all those neighborhood affiliations are growing old and few are refreshing. Churches, community associations... They're all struggling and probably dying.
Some of that is us finding our society elsewhere (like here), some of it is work and commuting taking up so much time. But ultimately, younger generations don't feel the somewhereness of their elders. And whilst that's probably a gain overall, we also lose something.
Would suggest Starmer would be very happy with that. Sturgeon dominating still but sort of stuck. Fascinating
Generally I prefer the idea of maintaining personal control as others have mentioned but there are definitely benefits to annuities that make a mixed portfolio of annuity and drawdown appealing.
Support for independence has increased by five points to 43 per cent, while backing for the Union dropped by one point to 45 per cent, with 7 per cent undecided.
With “don’t knows” removed, this means the constitutional question remains on a knife-edge: 49 per cent favour independence for Scotland and 51 per cent favour remaining part of the UK.
Thread from 'gender critical' activist Caroline Farrow about the police turning up at her door at teatime to arrest her for alleged 'malicious online communication'. In front of her children.
https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1577092705154666496
And another perhaps more PB one from her barrister about harassment he has been subjected to since he has been representing her, including multiple complaints to legal authorities and several to police. Consider further legal measures to stem the tide. Also introduced me to the world of unregistered barristers - which sounds like a parallel to unregistered architects.
https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1577441968497561606
He just received enough compensation from the Met to build a swimming pool.
One of the Farrow coppers remarked that she had been arrrested for 'writing insulting things on the internet. Which is not an offence (if I understand my case law correctly.)
There's an Augean stables to be cleared out somewhere. Where's Heracles?
SNP 46%
SLAB 30%
SCON 15%
There isn't the lengthy session in a decent clubhouse afterwards.
There never was a great distinction, or enmity even in the bad old days, though. If they'd followed Twickenham and banned everyone who'd ever played league, there wouldn't have been an RU XV to raise in Wigan or St. Helens or Wakefield.
A great many still play both. Especially now league is summer. I think it makes you better at both.
Truss is lining up the scapegoats for the right wing press to feed on . Does that mean we get shipped off to Rwanda or will the stain on humanity Braverman just put us against a wall and shot for not believing in the Dear Leaders project .
If she bins an old dress, she can still go out in a new dress.
In terms of attitude to a big constitutional change, there's a world of difference between thinking the Government is crap and likely to be in power for many years to come on the one hand, and thinking it's crap and on the way out on the other.
I think everyone accepts that NS1 and 2 are comprehensively over.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/#source=refresh
I'm still not signing up for anything which involves watching a professional singer though.
Since the pipeline is closed, the amount of gas lost will be small - just one filling.
Sadly they were denied promotion to the Premier league through having a small stadium and not being bust.
Unless I wrecked a dress that didn't need fixing up, in which case I'd probably be sleeping on the couch.
Speaking of polls and elections, a female Prime Minister going for an early election....
Not Liz Truss but Mette Frederiksen who has called a snap poll for the Folketing on November 1st which of course clashes with the Melbourne Cup.
The latest Megafon poll (fieldwork today) so conducted after yesterday's announcement had (changes from 2019 election):
Social Democrats: 25.4% (-0.5)
Venstre: 13.0% (-10.4)
Conservative: 11.6% (+5.0)
Denmark Democrats: 9.7% (new)
Socialist People's Party: 8.9% (+1.2)
Red-Green Alliance: 7.9% (+1.0)
Moderates: 6.2% (new)
Liberal Alliance: 4.5% (+2.2)
The New Right: 4.4% (+2.0)
Radikale Venstre: 4.1% (-4.5)
Dansk Folkeparti: 2.0% (-6.7)
That's everyone above the 2% threshold. Totalling up the votes between all the parties (including those under the 2% threshold) and the centre-left bloc has a 1.3% lead but that is cut to 1.1% with parties just over 2% and of course the Dansk Folkeparti is right on the brink of representation.
In terms of seats, the projection is 83 for the centre-left and 81 for the centre-right and holding the balance is the new Moderates Party led, not by Birgitte Nyborg as I had expected but by former PM Lars-Lokke Rasmussen. His party would win 6.2% of the vote and 11 seats on the Megafon numbers.
Rasmussen split off from Venstre but he's picked his words very carefully and has not committed to either side. Can we see him in a Government with the Denmark Democrats or is he more likely to back the Social Democrats?
Exciting times ahead.
One small mistake is all it takes.
https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1577734887179780096?s=61&t=UC1QKJ4VXjSimIbzQn6SPg
Value bet de jour.
'Ministers have stepped back from mooted plans to launch a public information campaign to encourage households to reduce their energy use this winter.
A campaign asking households to turn their thermostats down and use their dishwashers and washing machines at times when energy demand is lower have been discussed between the business department, energy companies and the network operator National Grid.
However, business department on Wednesday said there are now “no plans for the government to tell the public to reduce usage for the sake of our energy supplies”.'
Do not let the membership choose the leader whilst in government.
Perfectly designed to keep Southerners in the South by feeding them baloney.