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YouGov has LAB with a 25% lead amongst women – politicalbetting.com

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  • AlistairM said:

    US really stepping up the supplies to Ukraine. Even a small number of HIMARs made a big difference. 18 more on the way!

    $1.1 bln 🇺🇸 additional security assistance for 🇺🇦:
    ✅18 HIMARS
    ✅150 HMMWVs
    ✅20 multi-mission radars
    ✅40 trucks, 80 trailers
    ✅Tactical secure comms & surveillance systems
    ✅Explosive ordnance disposal equipment
    ✅Body armor
    Other equipment
    Thank you to @POTUS & @SecDef!
    🇺🇦🤝🇺🇸

    https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1575206419061563392

    I saw it suggested that these were contracts for delivery over the next 1-2 years, rather than being imminent supplies through the Presidential Drawdown Authority.

    If they are for imminent delivery that would be a big deal. Ukraine currently have 16 HIMARS and 11 of the similar, tracked, M270 MLRS. So +18 would be +two-thirds.
    As someone remarked last time, Ukraine will have 16 + 18 = 34 HIMARS. Poland has ordered 500, which puts Ukraine's handful into perspective.
    https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/06/07/poland-himars-us/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647

    One of contributing factors to the markets crisis was the Govt didn't publish OBR forecasts alongside mini-Budget = uncertainty. Govt said OBR couldn't get them ready within timescales for 23 Sept. In fact, the OBR "stood ready" to produce them by 14 Sept:

    In its defence, govt said this week that the OBR had said (quoting OBR) any forecasts would “necessarily require some reduction in the breadth and depth of the analysis and information that we would be able to provide”

    HOWEVER this does not tell the full story. In a letter to Treasury cttee chair on 26 August, OBR chair said "we would do our best in the time available to give the Govt, Parliament & the public the most complete & up-to-date picture of the economic and fiscal outlook as possible"


    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1575215566448517120

    This is why the markets have no confidence in the Truss Ministry.

    How did the government not see that no OBR forecast would look like they were trying to hide stuff?
  • One of contributing factors to the markets crisis was the Govt didn't publish OBR forecasts alongside mini-Budget = uncertainty. Govt said OBR couldn't get them ready within timescales for 23 Sept. In fact, the OBR "stood ready" to produce them by 14 Sept:

    In its defence, govt said this week that the OBR had said (quoting OBR) any forecasts would “necessarily require some reduction in the breadth and depth of the analysis and information that we would be able to provide”

    HOWEVER this does not tell the full story. In a letter to Treasury cttee chair on 26 August, OBR chair said "we would do our best in the time available to give the Govt, Parliament & the public the most complete & up-to-date picture of the economic and fiscal outlook as possible"


    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1575215566448517120

    This is why the markets have no confidence in the Truss Ministry.

    Isn't she planning to close the OBR down as it is part of the "orthodoxy"?

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    🔴 Insiders tell The Telegraph that red flags were raised over mini-Budget as Tory despair over turmoil grows
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/09/28/how-truss-kwarteng-warned-danger-pound-nosedived/
  • PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    From Scott Bryan on Twitter

    Here are the BBC Local Radio Stations PM Liz Truss is on tomorrow morning and their timings.

    0800 LEEDS
    0808 NORFOLK
    0815 KENT
    0822 LANCASHIRE
    0830 NOTTINGHAM
    0838 TEES
    0845 BRISTOL
    0852 STOKE

    Same recording, or only a handful of minutes on each?
    Eight different interviews. Some stations have been touting for questions on social media from listeners.

    She’s missed out Wales, Scotland and NI which is pisspoor.
    Quite, but as HYUFD says they don't count. Not enough Tory votes

    And it's barely enough time to say good morning at each, and try to remember not to congratulate Leeds on Lancashire's cricket win and remark in Teesside on the Colston statue. Certainly not compared with an hour beign grilled by the BBC or Sky. .
    deliberate..she isnt capable of handling difficult questioning
  • dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    From Scott Bryan on Twitter

    Here are the BBC Local Radio Stations PM Liz Truss is on tomorrow morning and their timings.

    0800 LEEDS
    0808 NORFOLK
    0815 KENT
    0822 LANCASHIRE
    0830 NOTTINGHAM
    0838 TEES
    0845 BRISTOL
    0852 STOKE

    In depth questioning then.
    There are about 40 BBC Radio Countyshire stations, so that's five hours to get through all of them.

    Doesn't seem like a brilliantly efficient use of the PM's time.

    (What some celebs do is to record answers, then let Mike and Snoo (your morning crew- back tomorrow at six on Local FM) tack on the questions to go with them. Which is way more efficient, if productivity is what's going to get us out of this hole.)
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    Has no one else clocked that we now have another episode of incompetence from the BoW to contend with? Seems like DB pensions / LDI were a ticking time bomb that was going to explode whenever gilt yields reverted to historical norms. Which they were going to anyway via QE reversal and being dragged up by the Fed.

    On top of the crap job by the MPC last week, following a sustained period of being far too dovish.

    Anyway let’s blame Kwasi for a £2bn tax cut for higher rate taxpayers!
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694

    Pagan2 said:

    stodge said:

    Pagan2 said:


    Who do you think is paying the 20% employer contribution into public sector pensions if not tax payers? Plus not all public sector pensions are fully funded

    You could argue the "tax payer" is paying for the whole thing. The term "Public Sector Pension" covers a multitude of sins and is a lazy catch-all. The pension arrangements for civil servants, local Government officers, fire fighters, the Police and the Armed Forces are all different.
    The fact remains we have two choices

    Spend less or tax more.

    Tax more isn't an option because the amount of extra tax that is needed is far more than could be raised from upper earners therefore the basic rate would have to be raised and that would push millions from just about managing to poverty.

    The sooner we accept we have to spend less and have a grown up conversation about what we can do without the sooner things get fixed.

    Currently all we have is people yelping spend more, taxing the rich more will pay for it when in reality the extra tax we could raise is going to nowhere near cutting the deficit. We would probably need to raise the basic rate to at least 25% even if we made top rate tax 75% to cover the deficit
    The 45% rate cut accounts for just 2 billion which is an extraordinary small amount to lose credibility on

    And yes you are right, tax increases and spending cuts loom a long way into the future
    it took 13 years but finally the tories elected a leader dumb enough to fall into Brown's farewell trap
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    pm215 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    For example the wage bill for the NHS is 56.1 billion (46.6% of total nhs budget)

    This means of that 56.1 about 9 billion is employer pension contributions. Where do you think that is coming from if not the tax payer?

    Of course the government as an employer is paying employer pension contributions. Assuming we want the government to have employees we do actually need to pay the costs (salary, employer pension contribution and everything else) of employing people.
    I didnt suggest they dont pay employer contributions. I suggested they were payed at a more realistic rate 20% is ridiculous when we are at this level of debt and deficit
    They are realistic when set against the original reduction in salary. Free market innit. See what @Selebian said.
    But as the source I supplied indicated apart from knowledge intensive industries public sector employees actually earn more than their private sector counterparts
    Some do, some don't, so it evens out to some degree. But in any case it is not relevant. You were complaining not about total salary but about 20% employer contribs on salary, while ignoring the reduction in salary by something like 10% in the first place.
    Apart from the source I quoted showed that apart from a narrow range of jobs public sector earns more....you keep trying to ignore that and pretend the public sector worker is hard done by when most really aren't. If they don't like the change they can resign and get a private sector job. I am guessing most won't when they look at the salaries they can get.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    So in short - deep concern, deep alarm but few signs yet of Tory discontentment rallying round a move. But Tory conference begins Sunday (forcing people on record) and crunch votes this autumn. Everyone - like the country - watching to see if things stabilise or deteriorate. 10/

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1575218382999547904
  • dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    From Scott Bryan on Twitter

    Here are the BBC Local Radio Stations PM Liz Truss is on tomorrow morning and their timings.

    0800 LEEDS
    0808 NORFOLK
    0815 KENT
    0822 LANCASHIRE
    0830 NOTTINGHAM
    0838 TEES
    0845 BRISTOL
    0852 STOKE

    Same recording, or only a handful of minutes on each?
    Maybe she's giving out the weather or traffic updates.
    She'll deny there are traffic problems anywhere.
    There wont be because she'll block Highways England from publishing any status updates.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,729
    PeterM said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    From Scott Bryan on Twitter

    Here are the BBC Local Radio Stations PM Liz Truss is on tomorrow morning and their timings.

    0800 LEEDS
    0808 NORFOLK
    0815 KENT
    0822 LANCASHIRE
    0830 NOTTINGHAM
    0838 TEES
    0845 BRISTOL
    0852 STOKE

    Same recording, or only a handful of minutes on each?
    Eight different interviews. Some stations have been touting for questions on social media from listeners.

    She’s missed out Wales, Scotland and NI which is pisspoor.
    Quite, but as HYUFD says they don't count. Not enough Tory votes

    And it's barely enough time to say good morning at each, and try to remember not to congratulate Leeds on Lancashire's cricket win and remark in Teesside on the Colston statue. Certainly not compared with an hour beign grilled by the BBC or Sky. .
    deliberate..she isnt capable of handling difficult questioning
    She may or may not be, but what is the average Norfolk rustic or Bristle chap going to think when Ms Truss clears off barely five minutes after the hellos and some banal remark about where she is virtually? They'll think she is extracting the urine.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    I think @BBCr4today should just broadcast all of these from 8-9am https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1575209631949148160
  • PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    Pagan2 said:

    stodge said:

    Pagan2 said:


    Who do you think is paying the 20% employer contribution into public sector pensions if not tax payers? Plus not all public sector pensions are fully funded

    You could argue the "tax payer" is paying for the whole thing. The term "Public Sector Pension" covers a multitude of sins and is a lazy catch-all. The pension arrangements for civil servants, local Government officers, fire fighters, the Police and the Armed Forces are all different.
    The fact remains we have two choices

    Spend less or tax more.

    Tax more isn't an option because the amount of extra tax that is needed is far more than could be raised from upper earners therefore the basic rate would have to be raised and that would push millions from just about managing to poverty.

    The sooner we accept we have to spend less and have a grown up conversation about what we can do without the sooner things get fixed.

    Currently all we have is people yelping spend more, taxing the rich more will pay for it when in reality the extra tax we could raise is going to nowhere near cutting the deficit. We would probably need to raise the basic rate to at least 25% even if we made top rate tax 75% to cover the deficit
    impossible to have a grown up conversation in the kind of democracy we have now
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    The most bizarre thing I think is the whole line now “that we wait for the 23rd November “ for the plan to reduce debt as proportion of GDP

    They quite clearly had no plan and are now
    Scrabbling to pull one together
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955

    The most bizarre thing I think is the whole line now “that we wait for the 23rd November “ for the plan to reduce debt as proportion of GDP

    They quite clearly had no plan and are now
    Scrabbling to pull one together

    Citi bank says it now expects the government to deliver a “substantial fiscal announcement now in the week of the 11 October…If the government is able to meaningfully re-assure the markets, the pressure on gilts could ease.”

    https://twitter.com/MehreenKhn/status/1575201312182251520
  • One of contributing factors to the markets crisis was the Govt didn't publish OBR forecasts alongside mini-Budget = uncertainty. Govt said OBR couldn't get them ready within timescales for 23 Sept. In fact, the OBR "stood ready" to produce them by 14 Sept:

    In its defence, govt said this week that the OBR had said (quoting OBR) any forecasts would “necessarily require some reduction in the breadth and depth of the analysis and information that we would be able to provide”

    HOWEVER this does not tell the full story. In a letter to Treasury cttee chair on 26 August, OBR chair said "we would do our best in the time available to give the Govt, Parliament & the public the most complete & up-to-date picture of the economic and fiscal outlook as possible"


    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1575215566448517120

    This is why the markets have no confidence in the Truss Ministry.

    How did the government not see that no OBR forecast would look like they were trying to hide stuff?
    Hubris meets nemesis.

    I spoke to somebody close to the Tory Party today, their view, Liz Truss and her supporters think she won a massive landslide general election victory when she couldn't get more than a handful of MPs to vote for her and a lower share of the vote with the Tory members than IDS did.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Thursday’s i - “Emergency help from Bank saves pensions - with public sector cuts to follow” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1575219623879909377/photo/1
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647
    Scott_xP said:

    I think @BBCr4today should just broadcast all of these from 8-9am https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1575209631949148160

    There will be gaffes (inevitably).

    R4Today will simply re-broadcast the gaffes (inevitably).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,572
    Pagan2 said:

    pm215 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    For example the wage bill for the NHS is 56.1 billion (46.6% of total nhs budget)

    This means of that 56.1 about 9 billion is employer pension contributions. Where do you think that is coming from if not the tax payer?

    Of course the government as an employer is paying employer pension contributions. Assuming we want the government to have employees we do actually need to pay the costs (salary, employer pension contribution and everything else) of employing people.
    I didnt suggest they dont pay employer contributions. I suggested they were payed at a more realistic rate 20% is ridiculous when we are at this level of debt and deficit
    The large number of vacancies suggests that working in the NHS is not the goldmine that you think.

    My old flatmate picked up his pension this week after 35 years in the CS, starting in the treasury. WhatsApped me to say he got out at the right time. Its a bloody farce at the top.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117
    edited September 2022
    Re; Truss's tours of BBC local radio stations to avoid difficult questioning, perhaps she'll be on at 4am to avoid trouble, as Alan Partridge's station managers planned for him too ?
  • Scott_xP said:

    I think @BBCr4today should just broadcast all of these from 8-9am https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1575209631949148160

    There will be gaffes (inevitably).

    R4Today will simply re-broadcast the gaffes (inevitably).
    Which will be worse?

    If she repeats the same things eight times, or if she contradicts herself?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,651
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    From Scott Bryan on Twitter

    Here are the BBC Local Radio Stations PM Liz Truss is on tomorrow morning and their timings.

    0800 LEEDS
    0808 NORFOLK
    0815 KENT
    0822 LANCASHIRE
    0830 NOTTINGHAM
    0838 TEES
    0845 BRISTOL
    0852 STOKE

    Same recording, or only a handful of minutes on each?
    A few jumbled words on each which unjumbled give a clue as to her hiding place
    Masquerade, indeed.
    Except instead of a golden hare, it's the thingy around her neck that PB comments is obsessed by.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    New. Chris Philp confirms on #peston that the government has NOT decided if benefits will be uprated in line with inflation this Autumn, as promised by @RishiSunak As I reported earlier.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1575220392771604480
  • PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    what could really move things now amongst the oaps is tory incompetence threatened pensions....suddenly it starts to hit home for the oaps who think they are sitting pretty in mortgage free houses and being out of the workforce
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,729
    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    From Scott Bryan on Twitter

    Here are the BBC Local Radio Stations PM Liz Truss is on tomorrow morning and their timings.

    0800 LEEDS
    0808 NORFOLK
    0815 KENT
    0822 LANCASHIRE
    0830 NOTTINGHAM
    0838 TEES
    0845 BRISTOL
    0852 STOKE

    Same recording, or only a handful of minutes on each?
    A few jumbled words on each which unjumbled give a clue as to her hiding place
    Masquerade, indeed.
    Except instead of a golden hare, it's the thingy around her neck that PB comments is obsessed by.
    Quite so.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,485

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    37m
    "Ministers in cabinet rubbish the link between Friday's statement and today's turmoil". Then those Ministers have no business being anywhere near a whelk-stall, never mind the cabinet table.

    The Cabinet falls en masse when Truss falls. Of course they are denying there is any link. Will there have ever been a more sycophantic cloned Cabinet?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899

    How did the government not see that no OBR forecast would look like they were trying to hide stuff?

    Because Truss and Kwarteng are not half as clever as they think they are. Nobody thinks they are hiding the figures because they are flattering.

    Seriously anyone fancy trying such tricks in a business context? Would you get away with it? Like hell you would, you'd be lucky to keep your job.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,293

    One of contributing factors to the markets crisis was the Govt didn't publish OBR forecasts alongside mini-Budget = uncertainty. Govt said OBR couldn't get them ready within timescales for 23 Sept. In fact, the OBR "stood ready" to produce them by 14 Sept:

    In its defence, govt said this week that the OBR had said (quoting OBR) any forecasts would “necessarily require some reduction in the breadth and depth of the analysis and information that we would be able to provide”

    HOWEVER this does not tell the full story. In a letter to Treasury cttee chair on 26 August, OBR chair said "we would do our best in the time available to give the Govt, Parliament & the public the most complete & up-to-date picture of the economic and fiscal outlook as possible"


    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1575215566448517120

    This is why the markets have no confidence in the Truss Ministry.

    Isn't she planning to close the OBR down as it is part of the "orthodoxy"?

    They were but they’ve had to back track on that yesterday. No-one picked up on the fact
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Scott_xP said:

    The most bizarre thing I think is the whole line now “that we wait for the 23rd November “ for the plan to reduce debt as proportion of GDP

    They quite clearly had no plan and are now
    Scrabbling to pull one together

    Citi bank says it now expects the government to deliver a “substantial fiscal announcement now in the week of the 11 October…If the government is able to meaningfully re-assure the markets, the pressure on gilts could ease.”

    https://twitter.com/MehreenKhn/status/1575201312182251520
    No chance. She is as stubborn as anything - she’ll not budge
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,729
    PeterM said:

    what could really move things now amongst the oaps is tory incompetence threatened pensions....suddenly it starts to hit home for the oaps who think they are sitting pretty in mortgage free houses and being out of the workforce

    Do we know the Daily Mail front page for tomorrow?
  • This government is awesome, the optics so brilliant.


  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Scott_xP said:

    New. Chris Philp confirms on #peston that the government has NOT decided if benefits will be uprated in line with inflation this Autumn, as promised by @RishiSunak As I reported earlier.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1575220392771604480

    Sickening . To cut the 45% top rate and then to not support those who have very little whilst at the same time re-instating the triple lock .
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Scott_xP said:

    New. Chris Philp confirms on #peston that the government has NOT decided if benefits will be uprated in line with inflation this Autumn, as promised by @RishiSunak As I reported earlier.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1575220392771604480

    Wonderful prosperity for all
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    moonshine said:

    Has no one else clocked that we now have another episode of incompetence from the BoW to contend with? Seems like DB pensions / LDI were a ticking time bomb that was going to explode whenever gilt yields reverted to historical norms. Which they were going to anyway via QE reversal and being dragged up by the Fed.

    On top of the crap job by the MPC last week, following a sustained period of being far too dovish.

    Anyway let’s blame Kwasi for a £2bn tax cut for higher rate taxpayers!

    Bank of Wales?
  • glw said:

    How did the government not see that no OBR forecast would look like they were trying to hide stuff?

    Because Truss and Kwarteng are not half as clever as they think they are. Nobody thinks they are hiding the figures because they are flattering.

    Seriously anyone fancy trying such tricks in a business context? Would you get away with it? Like hell you would, you'd be lucky to keep your job.
    "...the prime minister is a maniac. It is the trait that comes across in the testimony of advisers and civil servants who have worked with her. They describe fundamentalist attachment to the free-market ideas that were manifest as policy in last week’s disastrous mini-budget, and a habit of dismissing rational caution as spoilsport cowardice. It is said that Truss’s fanatical streak often needed reining in by No 10 when she was a minister. Now it is unbridled. Character flaws of that magnitude cannot be hidden from the public."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/27/keir-starmer-labour-liz-truss-politics
  • (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    37m
    "Ministers in cabinet rubbish the link between Friday's statement and today's turmoil". Then those Ministers have no business being anywhere near a whelk-stall, never mind the cabinet table.

    The Cabinet falls en masse when Truss falls. Of course they are denying there is any link. Will there have ever been a more sycophantic cloned Cabinet?
    Two PMs in a row now have tried Cabinets that are full of useless but ultra loyal MPs, rather than "all the talents" and "cabinet of rivals".

    Both PMs have failed utterly.

    Lesson for the next one.
  • This government is awesome, the optics so brilliant.


    Astonishing muppetry.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    New. Chris Philp confirms on #peston that the government has NOT decided if benefits will be uprated in line with inflation this Autumn, as promised by @RishiSunak As I reported earlier.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1575220392771604480

    Sickening . To cut the 45% top rate and then to not support those who have very little whilst at the same time re-instating the triple lock .
    Whole thing seems like route one to throwing an election, to be honest.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,729
    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    New. Chris Philp confirms on #peston that the government has NOT decided if benefits will be uprated in line with inflation this Autumn, as promised by @RishiSunak As I reported earlier.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1575220392771604480

    Sickening . To cut the 45% top rate and then to not support those who have very little whilst at the same time re-instating the triple lock .
    TBF the TL is important for those pensioners who don't have much in the way of a private pension or other income. But to treat differently the other folk who have very little ...
  • This government is awesome, the optics so brilliant.


    Astonishing muppetry.
    It's not muppetry, it is kicking the poorest in society at the time of such extreme vulnerability.
  • Scott_xP said:

    I think @BBCr4today should just broadcast all of these from 8-9am https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1575209631949148160

    There will be gaffes (inevitably).

    R4Today will simply re-broadcast the gaffes (inevitably).
    Which will be worse?

    If she repeats the same things eight times, or if she contradicts herself?
    Actually, it might be risk. Who can be quite sure what left field question a Breakfast DJ on BBC Radio Rutland might ask?

  • Taz said:

    From Scott Bryan on Twitter

    Here are the BBC Local Radio Stations PM Liz Truss is on tomorrow morning and their timings.

    0800 LEEDS dirty
    0808 NORFOLK blue
    0815 KENT Camembert
    0822 LANCASHIRE crumbly
    0830 NOTTINGHAM Stilton
    0838 TEES Wensleydale
    0845 BRISTOL cheddar
    0852 STOKE Staffordshire blue

    That is a disgrace
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647
    Carnyx said:

    PeterM said:

    what could really move things now amongst the oaps is tory incompetence threatened pensions....suddenly it starts to hit home for the oaps who think they are sitting pretty in mortgage free houses and being out of the workforce

    Do we know the Daily Mail front page for tomorrow?
    "Meghan da-dah da-dah da-dah..." I expect.
  • nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    New. Chris Philp confirms on #peston that the government has NOT decided if benefits will be uprated in line with inflation this Autumn, as promised by @RishiSunak As I reported earlier.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1575220392771604480

    Sickening . To cut the 45% top rate and then to not support those who have very little whilst at the same time re-instating the triple lock .
    I suspect very little is “decided” at present.

    They have dug themselves a hole so deep their arse is attracting kangaroos.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Liz Truss joined the Tories from the Lib Dems in about 1997 I believe, the nadir of the patter’s fortunes. She believes in this shit. She really does. She won’t back down.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    One of contributing factors to the markets crisis was the Govt didn't publish OBR forecasts alongside mini-Budget = uncertainty. Govt said OBR couldn't get them ready within timescales for 23 Sept. In fact, the OBR "stood ready" to produce them by 14 Sept:

    In its defence, govt said this week that the OBR had said (quoting OBR) any forecasts would “necessarily require some reduction in the breadth and depth of the analysis and information that we would be able to provide”

    HOWEVER this does not tell the full story. In a letter to Treasury cttee chair on 26 August, OBR chair said "we would do our best in the time available to give the Govt, Parliament & the public the most complete & up-to-date picture of the economic and fiscal outlook as possible"


    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1575215566448517120

    This is why the markets have no confidence in the Truss Ministry.

    How did the government not see that no OBR forecast would look like they were trying to hide stuff?
    Some analysis better than none. It was a seriously boneheaded move. How else would people interpret it other than that the plans were bonkers?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,677
    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    From Scott Bryan on Twitter

    Here are the BBC Local Radio Stations PM Liz Truss is on tomorrow morning and their timings.

    0800 LEEDS
    0808 NORFOLK
    0815 KENT
    0822 LANCASHIRE
    0830 NOTTINGHAM
    0838 TEES
    0845 BRISTOL
    0852 STOKE

    Same recording, or only a handful of minutes on each?
    A few jumbled words on each which unjumbled give a clue as to her hiding place
    Masquerade, indeed.
    Except instead of a golden hare, it's the thingy around her neck that PB comments is obsessed by.
    It's whatever is happening in that thingy above her neck that worries me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,729

    Carnyx said:

    PeterM said:

    what could really move things now amongst the oaps is tory incompetence threatened pensions....suddenly it starts to hit home for the oaps who think they are sitting pretty in mortgage free houses and being out of the workforce

    Do we know the Daily Mail front page for tomorrow?
    "Meghan da-dah da-dah da-dah..." I expect.
    I would be very surprised if the Pension word makes an appearance.
  • Carnyx said:

    PeterM said:

    what could really move things now amongst the oaps is tory incompetence threatened pensions....suddenly it starts to hit home for the oaps who think they are sitting pretty in mortgage free houses and being out of the workforce

    Do we know the Daily Mail front page for tomorrow?
    Not yet, according to https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/

    But the FT cover is very tastefully done, with a graph doing a decent job of going in one of KK's ears and out the other.


  • PeterM said:

    what could really move things now amongst the oaps is tory incompetence threatened pensions....suddenly it starts to hit home for the oaps who think they are sitting pretty in mortgage free houses and being out of the workforce

    Don't think what happened today was about pensioners who are already being paid their pensions. It was about gilts and liabilities for future pensioners I think?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    We know you’re our core voter group so there’s your triple lock and big hike to account for inflation . Those on benefits , you don’t vote for us so there FOAD !

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,729

    Carnyx said:

    PeterM said:

    what could really move things now amongst the oaps is tory incompetence threatened pensions....suddenly it starts to hit home for the oaps who think they are sitting pretty in mortgage free houses and being out of the workforce

    Do we know the Daily Mail front page for tomorrow?
    Not yet, according to https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/

    But the FT cover is very tastefully done, with a graph doing a decent job of going in one of KK's ears and out the other.


    Ta.

    Rather more tasteful than the European of a couple of days ago ...
  • Scott_xP said:

    So in short - deep concern, deep alarm but few signs yet of Tory discontentment rallying round a move. But Tory conference begins Sunday (forcing people on record) and crunch votes this autumn. Everyone - like the country - watching to see if things stabilise or deteriorate. 10/

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1575218382999547904

    Her leaders speech is going to be a three buckets of popcorn hour me thinks.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    This government is awesome, the optics so brilliant.


    I know it is a very inexperienced Cabinet, with the exception of Truss, but have none of them taken part in politics at all in their lives? They cannot sell this current approach, it just screams callous and uncaring.
  • Daily Mail - "Meghan and Harry's War Against the Pound!"
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386

    This government is awesome, the optics so brilliant.


    State pensions are benefits too.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,813

    glw said:

    How did the government not see that no OBR forecast would look like they were trying to hide stuff?

    Because Truss and Kwarteng are not half as clever as they think they are. Nobody thinks they are hiding the figures because they are flattering.

    Seriously anyone fancy trying such tricks in a business context? Would you get away with it? Like hell you would, you'd be lucky to keep your job.
    "...the prime minister is a maniac. It is the trait that comes across in the testimony of advisers and civil servants who have worked with her. They describe fundamentalist attachment to the free-market ideas that were manifest as policy in last week’s disastrous mini-budget, and a habit of dismissing rational caution as spoilsport cowardice. It is said that Truss’s fanatical streak often needed reining in by No 10 when she was a minister. Now it is unbridled. Character flaws of that magnitude cannot be hidden from the public."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/27/keir-starmer-labour-liz-truss-politics
    So what were Cameron, May and Johnson doing in promoting her? Couldn't they see she was unfit for high office?
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    SKS wants parliament recalled. Not going to happen but could he call all his party in to ask questions to empty benches. A publicity stunt sure. But emphasizes the government being AWOL.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    moonshine said:

    Has no one else clocked that we now have another episode of incompetence from the BoW to contend with? Seems like DB pensions / LDI were a ticking time bomb that was going to explode whenever gilt yields reverted to historical norms. Which they were going to anyway via QE reversal and being dragged up by the Fed.

    On top of the crap job by the MPC last week, following a sustained period of being far too dovish.

    Anyway let’s blame Kwasi for a £2bn tax cut for higher rate taxpayers!

    So why did Truss and Kwarteng support the BoE intervention and offer unlimited taxpayer funding to cover the BoE’s (potential) losses?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Tory MP Sir John Redwood blames a “sales campaign” by @bankofengland for the run on the & and pension funds. WATCH: https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1575196773165023243
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DougSeal said:

    - ”We have now got the data set of the dramatic YouGov poll that had Labour with a 17% lead over the Conservatives.”

    Interesting choice of sub-sample there Mike.
    For punters interested in the Maj market, this is the more interesting subsample:

    YOUGOV HAS SNP WITH A 23% LEAD AMONG SCOTS

    SNP 44%
    SLab 21%
    SCon 19%
    SLD 5%

    Isn’t that a bit of a drop from GE 2019?

    No? The SNP lead was 18 points in 2019.
  • Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Insiders tell The Telegraph that red flags were raised over mini-Budget as Tory despair over turmoil grows
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/09/28/how-truss-kwarteng-warned-danger-pound-nosedived/

    Please sir, please sir, I know this one. Is the answer Sunak?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    There really is the stench of death around this government now. To be fair, Sunak’s campaign team warned that Truss was a crackpot, and she’s not disappointed. | Tory MPs tell Truss: sack Kwarteng or face mutiny

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/28/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-tory-mps-sack-or-mutiny?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    Wow. Tory MP quoted in article: “She could sack Kwasi and appoint somebody who could then make a few tweaks. But I think people are seriously underpricing the chance that it’s all over, that this government is dead on arrival.” /2
  • nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    New. Chris Philp confirms on #peston that the government has NOT decided if benefits will be uprated in line with inflation this Autumn, as promised by @RishiSunak As I reported earlier.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1575220392771604480

    Sickening . To cut the 45% top rate and then to not support those who have very little whilst at the same time re-instating the triple lock .
    Whole thing seems like route one to throwing an election, to be honest.
    That would be fine, but it's also likely that an election is two years away.

    If she wanted to throw an election without it causing real damage, she should just have called an election and put something obviously crazy and unacceptable in the manifesto, like ceding Essex to Belgum (Luxembourg can have Romford) or making people who have benefited from the house price boom pay for their social care.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,914

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    I'm voting Labour too, I've realised Starmer is going to need a majority to sort out this mess.

    We cannot risk a hung parliament with the SNP playing silly beggars.
    Agree
  • eekeek Posts: 28,293
    moonshine said:

    Has no one else clocked that we now have another episode of incompetence from the BoW to contend with? Seems like DB pensions / LDI were a ticking time bomb that was going to explode whenever gilt yields reverted to historical norms. Which they were going to anyway via QE reversal and being dragged up by the Fed.

    On top of the crap job by the MPC last week, following a sustained period of being far too dovish.

    Anyway let’s blame Kwasi for a £2bn tax cut for higher rate taxpayers!

    What incompetency? The BoE today had a choice of Watch a lot of pensions disappear by close of play today or do something. So it did something…

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,813
    edited September 2022
    I wouldn't say they're falling into a trap but Labour should be focusing on the fiscal recklessness rather than fairness of what the government is doing. Competence is always the killer.

    I wonder whether Truss takes after her mother who was in CND. Perhaps people tried to reason with her that unilateral disarmament was a mistake but she just saw that as spoilsport behaviour? Just believe in peace and all that.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    I'm voting Labour too, I've realised Starmer is going to need a majority to sort out this mess.

    We cannot risk a hung parliament with the SNP playing silly beggars.
    Crikey. Starmer is in landslide territory if this is reflected across Tory voters in general.

    GE cannot come quick enough.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647
    edited September 2022

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    You're not deserting them, they have deserted you.

    My 90 yo father-in-law, a loyal and committed Tory all his life, is utterly bemused by the current shambles.

    In truth though, he remains a Conservative; the party bearing that name does not.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    The economy nearly collapsed on Friday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, but it didn't.

    Truss seems to be taking that as proof that her plan is working...

    Totally fucking mental
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,707

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    I'm voting Labour too, I've realised Starmer is going to need a majority to sort out this mess.

    We cannot risk a hung parliament with the SNP playing silly beggars.
    That's literally where I'm at, no messing about with a coalition, give Labour a clear run to fix the economy and the Tories no chance of stumbling back into office before a sufficient amount of time has passed and a proper leader is in place.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    I wouldn't say they're falling into a trap but Labour should be focusing on the fiscal recklessness rather than fairness of what the government is doing. Competence is always the killer.

    I wonder whether Truss takes after her mother who was in CND. Perhaps people tried to reason with her that unilateral disarmament was a mistake but she just saw that as spoilsport behaviour? Just believe in peace and all that.

    She’s basically a political extremists, from a family of political extremists.

    We al know the type.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,813

    SKS wants parliament recalled. Not going to happen but could he call all his party in to ask questions to empty benches. A publicity stunt sure. But emphasizes the government being AWOL.

    Here's a question. Who is the government accountable to when parliament isn't sitting throughout so much of the year?
  • nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    New. Chris Philp confirms on #peston that the government has NOT decided if benefits will be uprated in line with inflation this Autumn, as promised by @RishiSunak As I reported earlier.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1575220392771604480

    Sickening . To cut the 45% top rate and then to not support those who have very little whilst at the same time re-instating the triple lock .
    Whole thing seems like route one to throwing an election, to be honest.
    That would be fine, but it's also likely that an election is two years away.

    If she wanted to throw an election without it causing real damage, she should just have called an election and put something obviously crazy and unacceptable in the manifesto, like ceding Essex to Belgum (Luxembourg can have Romford) or making people who have benefited from the house price boom pay for their social care.
    Sunil fails to resist the temptation to type: "Romford, like Ilford, has been in Greater London since 1965."
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647

    SKS wants parliament recalled. Not going to happen but could he call all his party in to ask questions to empty benches. A publicity stunt sure. But emphasizes the government being AWOL.

    Not sure he can do that tbh. HoC won't be open unless the Speaker agrees to it surely?
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    Truss is doing/wants to do the kind of things that Cameron should have done in 2010. Obviously we’re in a different situation now which makes it much harder, but it’s not crazy.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    IshmaelZ said:

    moonshine said:

    Has no one else clocked that we now have another episode of incompetence from the BoW to contend with? Seems like DB pensions / LDI were a ticking time bomb that was going to explode whenever gilt yields reverted to historical norms. Which they were going to anyway via QE reversal and being dragged up by the Fed.

    On top of the crap job by the MPC last week, following a sustained period of being far too dovish.

    Anyway let’s blame Kwasi for a £2bn tax cut for higher rate taxpayers!

    Bank of Wales?
    Ha! Autocorrect or typo
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    A few more nuggets to flesh out Sam’s thread, based on a series of conversations with people in and close to government over recent days.
    To echo Sam, they have two overarching messages:
    1. Market chaos is NOT a consequence of Friday’s statement
    2. No change in plans, whatsoever. https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1575203918573080576

    They have spoken to credible FX people and market traders, who have assured them it simply “doesn’t add up” that their fiscal package could have caused this market reaction. They believe the main explanation for these ructions is US monetary policy.

    They are determined to plough on with the plan and provide more info about their supply side reforms on everything from wind farms to planning. They believe this will help reassure markets, as will their medium term fiscal plan in Nov.

    One message you’ll be hearing a LOT in the coming wks: if it weren’t for govt’s mini-Budget (and by this they seem mainly to mean the energy package) UK would have been facing a major economic shock.
    Markets can do what they want; they believe theirs is the right plan.


    https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1575225440133795841
  • Scott_xP said:

    Tory MP Sir John Redwood blames a “sales campaign” by @bankofengland for the run on the & and pension funds. WATCH: https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1575196773165023243

    With a side swipe at "speculators" and hedge funds - the free marketers he has spent his whole life telling us to worship as they provide oil for the great financial engine that delivers prosperity.

    No wonder he looks like shit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,046

    Roger said:

    Keir Starmer excellent on Ch4 News.

    What a change!

    Three Shredded Wheat?

    It is all very easy for Starmer at the moment but I fail to see exactly what he's said he's going to do that will fundamentally change the position that we are in.

    If he tells us that we are all poorer thanks to Covid and Russia, and sorry, but we'll just have to put up with sh*t services and high taxes for years to come then that might be believable.
    "we are all poorer thanks to Covid and Russia, and sorry, but we'll just have to put up with sh*t services and high taxes for years to come"

    ... is a pithy summation of the facts. And this is the *good* outcome, where the war ends soonish, and does not worsen

    At some point, some political party has to give this news to the British people
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,058

    AlistairM said:

    US really stepping up the supplies to Ukraine. Even a small number of HIMARs made a big difference. 18 more on the way!

    $1.1 bln 🇺🇸 additional security assistance for 🇺🇦:
    ✅18 HIMARS
    ✅150 HMMWVs
    ✅20 multi-mission radars
    ✅40 trucks, 80 trailers
    ✅Tactical secure comms & surveillance systems
    ✅Explosive ordnance disposal equipment
    ✅Body armor
    Other equipment
    Thank you to @POTUS & @SecDef!
    🇺🇦🤝🇺🇸

    https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1575206419061563392

    I saw it suggested that these were contracts for delivery over the next 1-2 years, rather than being imminent supplies through the Presidential Drawdown Authority.

    If they are for imminent delivery that would be a big deal. Ukraine currently have 16 HIMARS and 11 of the similar, tracked, M270 MLRS. So +18 would be +two-thirds.
    As someone remarked last time, Ukraine will have 16 + 18 = 34 HIMARS. Poland has ordered 500, which puts Ukraine's handful into perspective.
    https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/06/07/poland-himars-us/
    Incidentally, HIMARS carries 6 rockets (one pod) whereas the M270 carries 12 (2 pods).

    The HIMARS is preferred by a number of users because of reliability, speed (it can relocate fast) and lower running costs over the M270
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,729
    Alistair said:

    DougSeal said:

    - ”We have now got the data set of the dramatic YouGov poll that had Labour with a 17% lead over the Conservatives.”

    Interesting choice of sub-sample there Mike.
    For punters interested in the Maj market, this is the more interesting subsample:

    YOUGOV HAS SNP WITH A 23% LEAD AMONG SCOTS

    SNP 44%
    SLab 21%
    SCon 19%
    SLD 5%

    Isn’t that a bit of a drop from GE 2019?

    No? The SNP lead was 18 points in 2019.
    At 45% tbf, but subsamples, subsamples. Still, it's striking how in 2019 the Tories were at 25% and Labour at 19% with LDs at 10. Wonder what it will be like in a few days.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    I'm voting Labour too, I've realised Starmer is going to need a majority to sort out this mess.

    We cannot risk a hung parliament with the SNP playing silly beggars.
    Crikey. Starmer is in landslide territory if this is reflected across Tory voters in general.

    GE cannot come quick enough.


    He is in landslide territory.

    I’ve never felt so horrified by the tories that I’d absolutely vote for Labour. I am actively wishing Starmer on. I have never voted Labour before.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Sorry to be like a stuck record. But Tory MPs in marginal seats aren't going to vote to cut benefits whilst boosting bankers bonuses. https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1575221715642220545
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    I think this will end up with Truss and Kwarteng made to drop the 45p and bring forward the details before November in return for the party backing the growth plan and spending restraint in general.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    Truss is doing/wants to do the kind of things that Cameron should have done in 2010. Obviously we’re in a different situation now which makes it much harder, but it’s not crazy.
    It’s crazy to do it 12 years into a government with 0 mandate.

    She has absolutely no right to implement the chaos we see. If she is so confident in herself, call a GE
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,253

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    One can only imagine what the average Tory MP’s postbag looks like at the moment.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    Can (barely) understand how (at least as a tactic) people can pooh pooh the pound plunge etc.

    But how can anyone do the same with respect to THIS statement?

    We don't exactly run in same circles (except PB) or share similar views (mostly) but I feel sure that you are NOT alone.

    Might same same or close re: other PBers. But you perhaps have been most consistent and solid in your views, and values.

    As I believe you still are.
  • Torsten Bell
    @TorstenBell
    ·
    8h
    This is by far the worst unforced economic policy error of my lifetime
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    I'm voting Labour too, I've realised Starmer is going to need a majority to sort out this mess.

    We cannot risk a hung parliament with the SNP playing silly beggars.
    That's literally where I'm at, no messing about with a coalition, give Labour a clear run to fix the economy and the Tories no chance of stumbling back into office before a sufficient amount of time has passed and a proper leader is in place.
    It breaks my heart the Tory party is doing this to the country but unlike the GOP we stand up and try and oust our nutty leaders.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,046

    PeterM said:

    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Jim Pickard

    @PickardJE
    former Chief Adviser at the Bank of England, Charles Goodhart, tells Times Radio: "You can say goodbye to growth over the period from now until the general election…”


    Quelle surprise.
    Seems pretty fatal for the government. How can they explain their pro-growth agenda leading to (or failing to prevent) the exact opposite occurring?

    So far they seem to be saying

    1) You just don't understand it
    2) It's the fault of people not believing in it hard enough

    But I cannot see that being compelling for the person in the street suffering in a recession.
    A recession is the least of the problems for people in the street.

    Depression
    Decline and fall
    Junk credit ratings
    Authoritarianism
    Nuclear conflict
    Evaporating public services

    The Yookay is entering the end game. A “recession” is a walk in the park compared to what’s about to happen.
    We are now quite a poor country...many people just dont realise it yet. We have a current account deficit of 8.3% of gdp and a budget deficit of 4.8% of gdp with total debt to gdp nr 100%. There will now be massive drops in living standards for the majority of the population
    What strikes me when visiting the UK is the crap people buy. Duff cars, cheap clothes, dreadful furniture, junk food, tat. There is no taste for quality. There is no taste full stop.

    Mayfair, one of my more frequent haunts during recent years, is a special case. All those awful overpriced Italian sports cars that seem to just be permanently parked for show.

    The immense wealth has been “spaffed up a wall”, to quote the most recent useless FM to be kicked out of office.
    Mate, I've been to Sweden

    lol
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Currently you can count me in the 12% Con - Lab switcher.

    Max is a big switch, an intelligent chap making the rational choice. Welcome to the fold Max!
    Be careful what you wish for. When people like Max leave the Opposition (and the Tories will be in Opposition soon) it become feeble and ineffective, and the last thing any Country needs is feeble opposition to the Government.
    I would merely be lending my vote to Labour to precipitate and end to this shambles which is destroying both country and party. The Tories now need a spell of opposition to better understand what the nation wants. Being in government has made them blinkered and drunk on power.
    Even I'm thinking about and I've opposed Labour my whole life.

    That tells you how serious I find the current situation. And I haven't changed my values.

    The incumbent administration is fucking crazy.
    Truss is doing/wants to do the kind of things that Cameron should have done in 2010. Obviously we’re in a different situation now which makes it much harder, but it’s not crazy.
    Undoubtedly Thatcher wanted to as well but she was sensible enough not to try and ignore economic reality, the high price of debt, and soaring inflation and press on regardless and ignore any issues about fiscal sustainability.

    That's the problem here. It's raw ideology meeting the real world.

    That's not the art of politics.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    eek said:

    moonshine said:

    Has no one else clocked that we now have another episode of incompetence from the BoW to contend with? Seems like DB pensions / LDI were a ticking time bomb that was going to explode whenever gilt yields reverted to historical norms. Which they were going to anyway via QE reversal and being dragged up by the Fed.

    On top of the crap job by the MPC last week, following a sustained period of being far too dovish.

    Anyway let’s blame Kwasi for a £2bn tax cut for higher rate taxpayers!

    What incompetency? The BoE today had a choice of Watch a lot of pensions disappear by close of play today or do something. So it did something…

    Doing something today was right (though the MPC should have also announced a raise). The incompetence was on the prudential side over years in letting the problem store up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,647

    I must say I'm surprised and pleased to see some of our most committed Tory posters talking about giving Starmer their vote next time. I think the Tories will be in the low-to-mid 20's soon.

    Yes. Respect!
This discussion has been closed.