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LizT compared with others who’ve became PM mid-parliament – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    They have been trying to, but their remit extends to England only.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    DavidL said:

    Yes, it does appear that any referendum in Donetsk Oblast is going to be missing some voters to say the least.
    There were suggestions they would go door to door to make sure that everyone completed their ballot papers.

    Bit like postal voting in this country…
    It would make Ukranians eligible for the Russian mobilisation. This is how it works in Buryat, students taken straight from lessons to the mobilisation depot.

    https://twitter.com/MartinKragh1/status/1573044088701882369?t=OV5AN755mf7chLPkO8l4Mw&s=19
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    They have been trying to, but their remit extends to England only.
    Out of interest, does Westminster think schools are starting too early or too late?
  • tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    Whilst that is true, here me out on this. England dictating to the rest of the UK that we change time zone from the one that makes scientific sense, with the change to placate the southerners at the expense of the north and Scotland, with "just change your lives, we won't let you do anything else" is just another brick in the independence wall.

    You cannot play politics with people's schools and with their working ours and with the lives of their children (sorry Neil).
  • I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    They have been trying to, but their remit extends to England only.
    Out of interest, does Westminster think schools are starting too early or too late?
    Too late, and finishing too early. They want them to be open in some form from 8 and to have options for continuing until 5.

    They were going so well and so pleased with themselves until it was pointed out they would need to renegotiate all staff contracts...
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Royalists: how dare you compare us to deranged religious cultists?


    You think that is weird? Further down same column

    I have been studying Sir Arthur Penn’s manuscript account of the death of George VI in 1952. The future Charles III, aged three, was at Sandringham with his parents once they had hurried back from Kenya, after hearing the news of her father’s demise. The bearer party of Guards for the coffin were staying at York House on the estate to rehearse. The Prince, wearing a ‘ruby-coloured velveteen’ outfit and a deerstalker, went, under Penn’s care, to see them. The ‘huge men’ gathered and stood before the tiny boy. At his request, they put on their bearskins, greatcoats and belts, and presented their rifles. Satisfied, ‘the inspecting officer withdrew with a low bow’. I wonder if, 70 years later, standing beside his mother’s bearer party, the new King remembered this first encounter with death and succession?

    It's the outfit...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    Whilst that is true, here me out on this. England dictating to the rest of the UK that we change time zone from the one that makes scientific sense, with the change to placate the southerners at the expense of the north and Scotland, with "just change your lives, we won't let you do anything else" is just another brick in the independence wall.

    You cannot play politics with people's schools and with their working ours and with the lives of their children (sorry Neil).
    When it comes to time, forcing us all off Greenwich is mean.
  • moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    From 1958.
    Nasser was a seriously flawed leader (though aren't they all) but this is remarkable.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Seamus_Malek/status/1573036690692001794
    Always like going back to what Nasser said a long time ago about the idea of mandatory hijab.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/sep/22/southgate-throws-support-harry-maguire-england-nations-league-italy

    "we back our best" says Gazza regarding Harry Maguire. "Best?" Maguire is shit, United have rightly dropped him and looking at the way the team are playing with the new defence I cannot see any reason to play him again before he is sold in January.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    Whilst that is true, here me out on this. England dictating to the rest of the UK that we change time zone from the one that makes scientific sense, with the change to placate the southerners at the expense of the north and Scotland, with "just change your lives, we won't let you do anything else" is just another brick in the independence wall.

    You cannot play politics with people's schools and with their working ours and with the lives of their children (sorry Neil).
    Yes you can. Fuck em.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    We are also importing nearly 10% of our energy through the interconnectors. And, of course, much of that gas is also imported.
    Exporting surely? Negative amounts from interconnectors again, that's really not helpful this year.
    Yes, you are right. We are currently exporting some of the energy from LNG that we import here to France (who in turn are exporting it to Italy). Germany is exporting a lot of energy at the moment so the French problems with their nuclear plants seem to be dragging on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Nigelb said:

    From 1958.
    Nasser was a seriously flawed leader (though aren't they all) but this is remarkable.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Seamus_Malek/status/1573036690692001794
    Always like going back to what Nasser said a long time ago about the idea of mandatory hijab.

    Although if anything the heckler was even better!
  • moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    There is a reason - so many employers are the ban hammer word. As you're proposing a liberalisation of practices so different things can do their own thing, instead of "just start earlier" we get anarchy. These schools start earlier than those schools in the same town. Employers don't change hours because why should they, and it becomes a big mess.
  • Not in favour of any change to daylight savings.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    ydoethur said:

    Re nuclear weapons, I hope Biden instead of panicking like everyone on here is asking the right question:

    Who do we offer $5 million to to NOT press the nuclear button if ordered to do so?

    The alternative is a cyber attack to destroy their systems, but the bribe is probably cheaper and more effective.

    U.S. has sent private warnings to Russia against using a nuclear weapon

    The Biden administration has been sending messages to Moscow about the grave consequences that would follow the use of a nuclear weapon in Ukraine
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/22/russia-nuclear-threat-us-options/
  • IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    Whilst that is true, here me out on this. England dictating to the rest of the UK that we change time zone from the one that makes scientific sense, with the change to placate the southerners at the expense of the north and Scotland, with "just change your lives, we won't let you do anything else" is just another brick in the independence wall.

    You cannot play politics with people's schools and with their working ours and with the lives of their children (sorry Neil).
    Yes you can. Fuck em.
    That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the SNP.

    Would love to hear your requiem for keeping Norninon in the union. Is that also "Fuck em?" Then again, that has been official government policy post Brexit, so I don't need to ask the question.

    The right wing voters in England have turned the governing party into a wrecking crew. They will bring down the union with them, and still be an angry and unhappy as they were because they won't have solves any of the issues that press them. Because they largely don't understand them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited September 2022

    Carnyx said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Hmm, the Scots won't be happy, or the farmers in the North of England and Ireland. DArk till amost 1000, and it's not even proper natural time.
    This Scot would be delighted. It must surely be safer for people to go to work or school in the dark, in the morning, when they are fresh, than come home in the dark, in the evening, when they are tired? In fact, I would go further. It would be good if people could come home from work and do outside things in daylight. Those who work outside could work different hours.
    Different hours - you start running into problems with child care, no?

    Edit|: Ignore, already raised I see.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Re nuclear weapons, I hope Biden instead of panicking like everyone on here is asking the right question:

    Who do we offer $5 million to to NOT press the nuclear button if ordered to do so?

    The alternative is a cyber attack to destroy their systems, but the bribe is probably cheaper and more effective.

    U.S. has sent private warnings to Russia against using a nuclear weapon

    The Biden administration has been sending messages to Moscow about the grave consequences that would follow the use of a nuclear weapon in Ukraine
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/22/russia-nuclear-threat-us-options/
    The grave consequences being...?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    And how would you organise that switch across any given area ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Re nuclear weapons, I hope Biden instead of panicking like everyone on here is asking the right question:

    Who do we offer $5 million to to NOT press the nuclear button if ordered to do so?

    The alternative is a cyber attack to destroy their systems, but the bribe is probably cheaper and more effective.

    U.S. has sent private warnings to Russia against using a nuclear weapon

    The Biden administration has been sending messages to Moscow about the grave consequences that would follow the use of a nuclear weapon in Ukraine
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/22/russia-nuclear-threat-us-options/
    The grave consequences being...?
    Carpet bombing Russia with nukes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    There is a reason - so many employers are the ban hammer word. As you're proposing a liberalisation of practices so different things can do their own thing, instead of "just start earlier" we get anarchy. These schools start earlier than those schools in the same town. Employers don't change hours because why should they, and it becomes a big mess.
    I'm sure Barty will tell you that the market will sort it out. 😊
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    I would never allow my employees to only work eight hours
  • DavidL said:

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    We are also importing nearly 10% of our energy through the interconnectors. And, of course, much of that gas is also imported.
    The French connector shows -5% currently. My *assumption* meant that we were exporting to them, not importing?
  • rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    I would never allow my employees to only work eight hours
    Another reason not to work somewhere as uncivilised. I love so much of American culture. But its attitude towards its people and what the rest of the developed world considers to be basic human rights is baffling.
  • Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    Whilst that is true, here me out on this. England dictating to the rest of the UK that we change time zone from the one that makes scientific sense, with the change to placate the southerners at the expense of the north and Scotland, with "just change your lives, we won't let you do anything else" is just another brick in the independence wall.

    You cannot play politics with people's schools and with their working ours and with the lives of their children (sorry Neil).
    Yes you can. Fuck em.
    That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the SNP.

    Would love to hear your requiem for keeping Norninon in the union. Is that also "Fuck em?" Then again, that has been official government policy post Brexit, so I don't need to ask the question.

    The right wing voters in England have turned the governing party into a wrecking crew. They will bring down the union with them, and still be an angry and unhappy as they were because they won't have solves any of the issues that press them. Because they largely don't understand them.
    No, it was shorthand for, don't play politics with silly accusations of playing politics. This is a situation which is perfectly addressed by existing devolved government.

    Also why the comments on English football - surely a far away country of which you know little?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Is the City really the Tories core vote ?
    Source of funds, maybe.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    A source of untapped renewable power?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    Not in favour of any change to daylight savings.

    Let's devolve the issue to local councils.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    I would never allow my employees to only work eight hours
    Do you have them electronically tagged ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Re nuclear weapons, I hope Biden instead of panicking like everyone on here is asking the right question:

    Who do we offer $5 million to to NOT press the nuclear button if ordered to do so?

    The alternative is a cyber attack to destroy their systems, but the bribe is probably cheaper and more effective.

    U.S. has sent private warnings to Russia against using a nuclear weapon

    The Biden administration has been sending messages to Moscow about the grave consequences that would follow the use of a nuclear weapon in Ukraine
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/22/russia-nuclear-threat-us-options/
    The grave consequences being...?
    That's why it's described as a private warning.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    I would never allow my employees to only work eight hours
    Do you have them electronically tagged ?
    Only the lucky ones.

    The rest are physically tagged.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    Same but it really isn't good for the country.
  • tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    It's not just lefties moaning, it is the fiscal conservatives/Thatcherites who are having a cow at this government fiscal incontinence.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    Whilst that is true, here me out on this. England dictating to the rest of the UK that we change time zone from the one that makes scientific sense, with the change to placate the southerners at the expense of the north and Scotland, with "just change your lives, we won't let you do anything else" is just another brick in the independence wall.

    You cannot play politics with people's schools and with their working ours and with the lives of their children (sorry Neil).
    Yes you can. Fuck em.
    That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the SNP.

    Would love to hear your requiem for keeping Norninon in the union. Is that also "Fuck em?" Then again, that has been official government policy post Brexit, so I don't need to ask the question.

    The right wing voters in England have turned the governing party into a wrecking crew. They will bring down the union with them, and still be an angry and unhappy as they were because they won't have solves any of the issues that press them. Because they largely don't understand them.
    No, it was shorthand for, don't play politics with silly accusations of playing politics. This is a situation which is perfectly addressed by existing devolved government.

    Also why the comments on English football - surely a far away country of which you know little?
    As a Manchester United fan, I am forced to agree with your analysis. Though "of which you know little" applies to my team as much as to me...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    At least we’re all agreed that the Tories are profligate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    Whilst that is true, here me out on this. England dictating to the rest of the UK that we change time zone from the one that makes scientific sense, with the change to placate the southerners at the expense of the north and Scotland, with "just change your lives, we won't let you do anything else" is just another brick in the independence wall.

    You cannot play politics with people's schools and with their working ours and with the lives of their children (sorry Neil).
    Yes you can. Fuck em.
    I would advise you against fucking children. All moral considerations aside, the consequences when caught would be suboptimal for you.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    You may or may not have noticed but I am as dry as dust on debt and deficit.

    I think we should run a balanced budget and fund services from current taxation, over a very short cycle. If that requires tax rises then OK.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    It's not just lefties moaning, it is the fiscal conservatives/Thatcherites who are having a cow at this government fiscal incontinence.
    So long as you were opposed to Help to Buy (an election), you can criticise this.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    I thought she was cremated?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    rcs1000 said:

    Not in favour of any change to daylight savings.

    Let's devolve the issue to local councils.
    at the parish level with a requirement that noon has to be at the solar noon.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    Whilst that is true, here me out on this. England dictating to the rest of the UK that we change time zone from the one that makes scientific sense, with the change to placate the southerners at the expense of the north and Scotland, with "just change your lives, we won't let you do anything else" is just another brick in the independence wall.

    You cannot play politics with people's schools and with their working ours and with the lives of their children (sorry Neil).
    Yes you can. Fuck em.
    I would advise you against fucking children. All moral considerations aside, the consequences when caught would be suboptimal for you.
    Unless of course St Elizabeth II makes your court case miraculously disappear.
  • Behind all the words, fluff and spin, here’s what the government is actually announcing today: a huge increase in borrowing in order to make rich people richer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    A source of untapped renewable power?
    The hot air from Mogg being wasted on unimportant shit like the House of Commons is a genuine national scandal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
    Whilst that is true, here me out on this. England dictating to the rest of the UK that we change time zone from the one that makes scientific sense, with the change to placate the southerners at the expense of the north and Scotland, with "just change your lives, we won't let you do anything else" is just another brick in the independence wall.

    You cannot play politics with people's schools and with their working ours and with the lives of their children (sorry Neil).
    Yes you can. Fuck em.
    I would advise you against fucking children. All moral considerations aside, the consequences when caught would be suboptimal for you.
    Unless of course St Elizabeth II makes your court case miraculously disappear.
    Sometimes connections can be Andy.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    You may or may not have noticed but I am as dry as dust on debt and deficit.

    I think we should run a balanced budget and fund services from current taxation, over a very short cycle. If that requires tax rises then OK.
    So why aren't you a Tory like the rest of us? Or at least, what attracts you to the Lib Dems, who aren't exactly dry as dust?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    DavidL said:

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    We are also importing nearly 10% of our energy through the interconnectors. And, of course, much of that gas is also imported.
    The French connector shows -5% currently. My *assumption* meant that we were exporting to them, not importing?
    Yes anything that is a - figure on there is an export not an import.

    We are currently exporting electricity to both France and Norway (the latter because Hydro isn't running at capacity at the moment)...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    A source of untapped renewable power?
    Worthy of a viral comedy tweet that, if you reword it a little to sound like a science news headline
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    As long as you spend it. Will you spend it?

    Giving extra to poorer people does a better job boosting the economy through their higher propensity to consume?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    Going to be interesting to see if the dividend tax changes that were implemented alongside the NI change is reversed. Little sign of it so far...
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    edited September 2022
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    You may or may not have noticed but I am as dry as dust on debt and deficit.

    I think we should run a balanced budget and fund services from current taxation, over a very short cycle. If that requires tax rises then OK.
    So why aren't you a Tory like the rest of us? Or at least, what attracts you to the Lib Dems, who aren't exactly dry as dust?
    I thought we were..... At least sensibly prudent. We always have our Budget proposals checked and costed for us externally before we present them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Dynamo said:

    Zelensky says one of his non-negotiable conditions for peace is that Russia be stripped of its permanent seat on the UN Security Council - which of course it can't be.


    Russia could have its UN Security Council status as successor to the USSR stripped.

    And given to Ukraine.

    That would be fun.
    Bizarrely, it couldn't be as Ukraine was a founder member of the UN in its own right, as was Belarus. So they are successor states to the Soviet Republics of those countries.

    Of course, it could instead be transferred to say, Kazakhstan. There is a precedent from 1971 when the PRC was declared the legitimate holder of China's seat, over the votes of the USA and (of course) the RoC.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    ClippP said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    You may or may not have noticed but I am as dry as dust on debt and deficit.

    I think we should run a balanced budget and fund services from current taxation, over a very short cycle. If that requires tax rises then OK.
    So why aren't you a Tory like the rest of us? Or at least, what attracts you to the Lib Dems, who aren't exactly dry as dust?
    I thought we were.....
    Hard to tell:

    https://twitter.com/EdwardJDavey/status/1272792809146327042

    Ed Davey
    @EdwardJDavey
    Marcus Rashford highlighting with honesty and lived experience why the govt must reverse their decision on providing free school meal vouchers during the summer.

    He also shows how far we have to travel to end the injustice and unfairness of child poverty.


    Just another one of the "spend some f****** money" brigade.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    edited September 2022
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    You may or may not have noticed but I am as dry as dust on debt and deficit.

    I think we should run a balanced budget and fund services from current taxation, over a very short cycle. If that requires tax rises then OK.
    So why aren't you a Tory like the rest of us? Or at least, what attracts you to the Lib Dems, who aren't exactly dry as dust?
    I did vote Tory in 2010 GE. I was a staunch supporter of the Coalition and quite happy with Camerons socially enlightend liberal conservatism.

    I won't ever vote for this current incarnation of the Tory party, nor a party that supports Brexit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited September 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Not in favour of any change to daylight savings.

    Let's devolve the issue to local councils.
    Just think of the train timetable confusion and crashes (which is why they brought in cross-UK time in the first place).
  • This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour would not be borrowing for tax cuts, but in order to improve public services and infrastructure.

    That’s the argument now.

    Should we be borrowing money to make rich people richer or to deliver a better, stronger public realm?

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    I thought she was cremated?
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    You may or may not have noticed but I am as dry as dust on debt and deficit.

    I think we should run a balanced budget and fund services from current taxation, over a very short cycle. If that requires tax rises then OK.
    So why aren't you a Tory like the rest of us? Or at least, what attracts you to the Lib Dems, who aren't exactly dry as dust?
    I did vote Tory in 2010 GE. I was a staunch supporter of the Coalition and quite happy with Camerons socially enlightend liberal conservatism.

    I won't ever vote for this current incarnation of the Tory party, nor a party that supports Brexit.
    The coalition that gave us help to buy. Not very fiscally conservative.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    Nice. I might put my bung towards a bigger donation to the Labour Party.
  • eek said:

    DavidL said:

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    We are also importing nearly 10% of our energy through the interconnectors. And, of course, much of that gas is also imported.
    The French connector shows -5% currently. My *assumption* meant that we were exporting to them, not importing?
    Yes anything that is a - figure on there is an export not an import.

    We are currently exporting electricity to both France and Norway (the latter because Hydro isn't running at capacity at the moment)...
    Presumably also because we have a local surplus of gas at the moment. We still have plenty of LNG coming in, but we're not yet into the winter heating season and we don't have much storage, so it gets burned in power stations and the electricity exported.

    It'll be a different story in a couple of months.
  • moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    There is a reason - so many employers are the ban hammer word. As you're proposing a liberalisation of practices so different things can do their own thing, instead of "just start earlier" we get anarchy. These schools start earlier than those schools in the same town. Employers don't change hours because why should they, and it becomes a big mess.
    You do realise don't you that year-round "summer time" is something the European Union has voted for by QMV and is mandating for all countries. I'm surprised if Britain post-Brexit is continuing with it, its an area where I think it absolutely should not be determined on an EU level, and one I'd happily see post-Brexit Britain diverge from.

    But if the Scottish Government said that they were eg operating schools from 9:40 - 4:30 instead of 8:40 - 3:30 and they were recommending businesses to operate from 10 - 6 instead of 9 - 5 (or adjust times if its the other way around) then that wouldn't be anarchy. Lots of businesses operate on a basis of 'the done thing' and especially what schools are doing, and those that are would adopt the new recommended hours instead of sticking with the old 'done thing'.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    edited September 2022
    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    As long as you spend it. Will you spend it?

    Giving extra to poorer people does a better job boosting the economy through their higher propensity to consume?
    It only partly makes up for my real terms pay cut of 7%, so in real terms I shall spend less than last year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited September 2022

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour would not be borrowing for tax cuts, but in order to improve public services and infrastructure.

    That’s the argument now.

    Should we be borrowing money to make rich people richer or to deliver a better, stronger public realm?

    The issue at the moment is whatever you put the money into, the practical effect is spending more on energy bills to make petrochemical states/companies much richer.

    Who can then lend us the money and charge interest on it and become richer again.

    There are times when I think however deluded he was Marx did have some merits.
  • This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour would not be borrowing for tax cuts, but in order to improve public services and infrastructure.

    That’s the argument now.

    Should we be borrowing money to make rich people richer or to deliver a better, stronger public realm?

    This is what happens when you have a party fully owned by the donor class, who have never so much as looked at a public service let alone used one. They just want to hold onto more of their lovely, lovely money.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour would not be borrowing for tax cuts, but in order to improve public services and infrastructure.

    That’s the argument now.

    Should we be borrowing money to make rich people richer or to deliver a better, stronger public realm?

    It was good to see a CBI representative on Newsnight yesterday saying we need an actual plan for how to achieve growth, with the very sensible suggestion of turning the apprenticeship levy into a skills levy. The apprenticeship system required under the levy is some of the most over-the-top labyrinthine bureaucracy I know.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    As long as you spend it. Will you spend it?

    Giving extra to poorer people does a better job boosting the economy through their higher propensity to consume?
    It only partly makes up for my real terms pay cut of 7%, so in real terms I shall spend less than last year.
    I suspect that most people out there are getting a real terms pay cut of more than you are.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited September 2022

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour would not be borrowing for tax cuts, but in order to improve public services and infrastructure.

    That’s the argument now.

    Should we be borrowing money to make rich people richer or to deliver a better, stronger public realm?

    It was good to see a CBI representative on Newsnight yesterday saying we need an actual plan for how to achieve growth, with the very sensible suggestion of turning the apprenticeship levy into a skills levy. The apprenticeship system required under the levy is some of the most over-the-top labyrinthine bureaucracy I know.
    I was looking at a job managing apprenticeships for a uni in the Midlands yesterday.

    I took one look at what would be involved and decided I would actually rather try to reason with Russian bot for all eternity than do that job.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    I thought she was cremated?
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    You may or may not have noticed but I am as dry as dust on debt and deficit.

    I think we should run a balanced budget and fund services from current taxation, over a very short cycle. If that requires tax rises then OK.
    So why aren't you a Tory like the rest of us? Or at least, what attracts you to the Lib Dems, who aren't exactly dry as dust?
    I did vote Tory in 2010 GE. I was a staunch supporter of the Coalition and quite happy with Camerons socially enlightend liberal conservatism.

    I won't ever vote for this current incarnation of the Tory party, nor a party that supports Brexit.
    The coalition that gave us help to buy. Not very fiscally conservative.
    All governments make mistakes. I am not obliged to back every policy, but it becomes more obvious over time that the Coalition was a golden period of good government, compared with the follies that followed and Brown's government preceeding it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    DavidL said:

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    We are also importing nearly 10% of our energy through the interconnectors. And, of course, much of that gas is also imported.
    The French connector shows -5% currently. My *assumption* meant that we were exporting to them, not importing?
    Yes, that's right.
  • This is the church King Charles III is the head of.

    He needs to speak out against this blatant homophobia or he is just an enabler of homophobia.

    The late Desmond Tutu's daughter has been barred by the Church of England from leading a funeral because she is married to a woman.

    Mpho Tutu van Furth is an Anglican priest in the Diocese of Washington DC and had been asked to officiate at the funeral of her late-godfather, Martin Kenyon, in Shropshire on Thursday.

    Ms Tutu van Furth told BBC News it "seemed really churlish and hurtful".

    The Diocese of Hereford said it was "a difficult situation".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63003282
  • ...
    Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    Well, of course there are more depressing things than that in Wick. Being alive being one example.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    There is a reason - so many employers are the ban hammer word. As you're proposing a liberalisation of practices so different things can do their own thing, instead of "just start earlier" we get anarchy. These schools start earlier than those schools in the same town. Employers don't change hours because why should they, and it becomes a big mess.
    You do realise don't you that year-round "summer time" is something the European Union has voted for by QMV and is mandating for all countries. I'm surprised if Britain post-Brexit is continuing with it, its an area where I think it absolutely should not be determined on an EU level, and one I'd happily see post-Brexit Britain diverge from.

    But if the Scottish Government said that they were eg operating schools from 9:40 - 4:30 instead of 8:40 - 3:30 and they were recommending businesses to operate from 10 - 6 instead of 9 - 5 (or adjust times if its the other way around) then that wouldn't be anarchy. Lots of businesses operate on a basis of 'the done thing' and especially what schools are doing, and those that are would adopt the new recommended hours instead of sticking with the old 'done thing'.
    If that happened surely there would be huge howls from the Unionists about the SNP breaking up Britain by making Scotland work to different hours. Which is probably a deliberate feature in the Tories' minds.
  • Behind all the words, fluff and spin, here’s what the government is actually announcing today: a huge increase in borrowing in order to make rich people richer.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    As long as you spend it. Will you spend it?

    Giving extra to poorer people does a better job boosting the economy through their higher propensity to consume?
    It only partly makes up for my real terms pay cut of 7%, so in real terms I shall spend less than last year.
    I suspect that most people out there are getting a real terms pay cut of more than you are.
    Quite possibly so, but that just means an even bigger contraction in consumer spending for them than me in percentage terms.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Yes, it does appear that any referendum in Donetsk Oblast is going to be missing some voters to say the least.
    Voters? Where do they come into it?
    The referendums, of course, lack any credibility outside Russia but even inside Russia the proposed referendums had been postponed because of the "security situation" on the ground where Ukraine controlled some of the Oblast concerned. That was until Thursday's U turn of course.
    The Russian government isn't trying to get British Tories to think "Well done, good dog, you're doing the right thing." Please can you say what you think follows from the referendums having no "credibility" outside Russia?
    rcs1000 said:

    Dynamo said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    My phone has been buzzing all afternoon Re NIC cut from pleased one-time Tories on course to sit out the next election.

    Sometimes pb is amazingly perceptive at predicting what will happen. And sometimes it gets into such strong group think it can’t spot the bigger trend. When it comes to Truss I think it’s the latter.

    The govt energy measures have already succeeded in knocking 5pts off peak headline inflation forecasts, which puts a dent in index linked govt spending and general inflation expectations. And they mean it when they say they want to position the economy for fast catch-up growth out of this recession. It will be kitchen sink stuff to get growth by any means. There’s nothing they can do about the Fed induced dollar strength without taking control of monetary policy. But the Fed will surely pivot long before the next Uk election.

    Meanwhile Truss looks likely to take a practical approach to the Northern Ireland Protocol, sucking the final Brexit poison out for the benefit of Remainia Tories. And boundary changes to come.

    I am reminded right now of the Coalition mid term polls, when many assumed we’d be looking at a Miliband/Balls govt of some form. Talk of a Truss exit in 2023 utterly bemuses me, unless these anonymous informed voices have inside info unavailable to mere plebs like me. Right now the base case should be a 2015 result +- 10 seats or so either way.

    CoL crisis is not going away @Moonshine.


    Now, you could argue that's not Truss's fault. But the electorate won't care.
    We already saw from one poster their energy bill will be lower than last year. And commodity prices are way down from the peak almost across the board. By the way anyone who thinks there’s no impact on gas prices from Putin falling out a window and Russia scaling down the war isn’t thinking straight. Medium term diversification of supply will still happen. But if there’s cheap gas on tap, then europe will still buy it.

    And wholesale gas prices are in any case about a half of the peak. Germany drove them temporarily sky high by filling up their strategic reserve at all cost. And there was lots of panic buying / speculative froth / trading profit in the price.

    Truss / Kwarteng are gambling their plan will mean growth going into the election gives the feel good factor after a tough period during the war. And I reckon the odds are pretty good they’ll win that gamble. Especially since the war is now already basically lost for Russia, it’s just the how and when left to be determined.
    How the fuck is the war ‘nearly lost’ for Russia?

    They are recruiting 1m men to fight. They have a massive war chest from oil and gas sales

    He’s putting the Russian economy on a total war footing. It’s complete mobilization. And he has an nenormous arsenal of nukes

    He cannot vanquish all Ukraine as things stand but if he drops one tactical nuke on, say, snake island or Odessa or wherever, then that completely changes the game
    I have been listening to people who know more than me. A useful analogy for ground warfare is scissors, paper, stone. Tanks beat artillery, artillery beats infantry, infantry beats tanks.

    It must all work in concert like an orchestra for a successful offensive. Which means strong command and control, efficient logistics, autonomous decision making capability of fighting units and high morale.

    Russia now lacks tanks and artillery, running out of precision weapons and even soviet stocks of shell. And they don’t have air superiority to make up for it. To a degree masses of infantry can make a difference but only a very highly motivated and trained one, that runs towards advancing tanks rather than away. It was lacking the orchestral ingredients from the beginning, though made much worse by Ukraine’s ruthless focus on causing troop attrition, and damage to command & control and logistics.

    This should then be set against the battle map. Russia can only move the necessary materiel around by rail, given weak logistics capability (not enough off road trucks/drivers, forklift and pallet system etc…). And Ukraine is ruthlessly targeting rail junctions. The map is such that a proper Russian offensive to take all of Donbas is now practically impossible. It’s Kherson formation is trapped north of the Dnipro. And it’s Crimea land bridge is utterly vulnerable to an attack on the junction city of Melitopol.

    The raised troops won’t make the difference. What of a low yield nuke? What do you suppose the reaction would be? From within Russia, from Russian trading partners. From the US (sanctions and militarily). And from the inhabitants of Ukraine. If success is judged by Russia securing the long term annexation of territory and a stronger Russia thereafter, it’s hard to think of a more counterproductive move than using a nuke.

    Putin know he’s lost this war. His words and actions this week are about managing his right flank domestically and little more.
    "Domestically" will mean something different this time next week, after the four regions are annexed. Will the US supply HIMARS for launching missiles inside (and at targets inside) what the Russian government says is Russia? Right now it seems the answer is yes, although it's possible that may change. If it is yes, the diplomatic situation between Russia and the US will certainly change, to put it mildly. That would be an inevitable consequence of the US decision. And then some. A new stage begins.

    Who are Putin's "right flank"? Presumably that means hawks, and proper military or other silovik hawks rather than civilians who rant on about Eurasia. Are they all nuts who don't know they've lost too? Gotta wonder how Russia has actually stayed in one piece if the sharp end of the state is run by such incompetents who can't face reality. I don't mean that flippantly. If Russia were going to break up, it would already have done so.
    No:

    It would be the inevitable consequence of Russia annexing their neighbour's territory.

    You are victim blaming.
    Invading Ukraine is on the Russian government.
    Sending weapons to what Russia says is Russia will be on whoever does it.

    I'm not seeking to moralise. I'm predicting that from a point soon after the referendum results US-Russian relations are likely to take a turn for the worse.

    In Putin's recent address he practically admitted there'd been a big intelligence f*ckup regarding who calls the shots in Kiev.

    People go on about HIMARS, but the US used HIMARS in Afghanistan and went on to lose the war.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited September 2022

    DavidL said:

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    We are also importing nearly 10% of our energy through the interconnectors. And, of course, much of that gas is also imported.
    The French connector shows -5% currently. My *assumption* meant that we were exporting to them, not importing?
    Yes - which appears as positive on the French version of Gridwatch. Currently importing from Germany, UK, Spain, and Switzerland for 22% of their current demand.



    France will continue being a big importer from until late this year, or early next year, and then we see.

    The still unusual item for me is that North Sea Link has largely reversed in recent months, and we are exporting to Norway. Presumably they are still protecting their hydro resource.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    As long as you spend it. Will you spend it?

    Giving extra to poorer people does a better job boosting the economy through their higher propensity to consume?
    It only partly makes up for my real terms pay cut of 7%, so in real terms I shall spend less than last year.
    I suspect that most people out there are getting a real terms pay cut of more than you are.
    Quite possibly so, but that just means an even bigger contraction in consumer spending for them than me in percentage terms.
    Isn't your spending expectations more influenced by stockmarkets? Mine is and I think this effect is overlooked. The purse-strings become tighter when investors see stock values withering.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    And as for the farmers argument - well its nonsense. A farmer has 8 hours of daylight whether than starts at 8.00 am or 9.00 a.m. If he or she has tasks that need daylight, thats when they will do them.

    Is is more dangerous going to school in the dark or coming home in the dark?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    This is the church King Charles III is the head of.

    He needs to speak out against this blatant homophobia or he is just an enabler of homophobia.

    The late Desmond Tutu's daughter has been barred by the Church of England from leading a funeral because she is married to a woman.

    Mpho Tutu van Furth is an Anglican priest in the Diocese of Washington DC and had been asked to officiate at the funeral of her late-godfather, Martin Kenyon, in Shropshire on Thursday.

    Ms Tutu van Furth told BBC News it "seemed really churlish and hurtful".

    The Diocese of Hereford said it was "a difficult situation".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63003282

    Quite. The C of E has been the ideological arm of the English State since 1530-wotsit. Yet it's not implementing the state directives about gay marriage. What's the point of an ideological arm if it goes its own way?
  • Nigelb said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Is the City really the Tories core vote ?
    Source of funds, maybe.
    The Tories have lost or are in the process of losing the votes of a lot of the regular City types toiling at the coal face for 6 or 7 figure salaries, I think. Brexit plus sheer incompetence and now this random spraying money around have not made them popular. But I think they retain a lot of the support from serious money, because (and I cannot emphasise this enough having seen it first hand) representing their interests is what the Tory party exists to do. Everything else is window dressing.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    Same way they pick them up at 3.30 - flexible employers. Or a relative does it. Or a friend.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    Very interesting council byelection results overnight. I think the next GE is going to give us some quite dramatic surprises, in various directions:

    1. Sherbourne (Coventry) council by-election result:

    CON: 53.3% (+14.3)
    LAB: 29.7% (-10.2)
    GRN: 5.3% (-4.0)
    TUSC: 4.7% (+0.4)
    LDEM: 3.6% (-1.3)
    CCP: 3.5% (+0.7)

    Votes cast: 2,644

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    This is a big swing to the Tories in what was previously a marginal seat. It's the West Midlands of course, the area that seems happiest with the government against the run of play elsewhere. Declines for all the left of centre parties so this isn't about the greens or LDs splitting the vote.

    Conclusion: the suburban West Midlands is becoming more and more electorally like Essex and Kent. A new Tory stronghold.

    2. Maresfield (Wealden) council by-election result:

    GRN: 61.2% (+30.3)
    CON: 38.8% (-23.3)

    No Lab (-7.1) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,063

    Green GAIN from Conservative.

    On the other hand down in the Sussex High Weald the home counties march of the Greens continues, with a massive swing. Sussex fracking concerns playing a part?

    Conclusion: the seeding effect of a minor party's previous successes in a region writ large. The hills around London are becoming a Green homeland.

    3. Bentilee and Ubberley (Stoke-on-Trent) council by-election result:

    LAB: 62.5% (+29.8)
    CI: 19.1% (-3.0)
    CON: 18.4% (+9.5)

    No UKIP (-21.9) and For Britain Movement (-14.4) as prev.

    Votes cast: 750

    LAB HOLD

    Interesting: Brexity Redwall bellwether Stoke on Trent seeing a very strong swing to Labour, largely from Eurosceptic / far right parties.

    Conclusion: the votes of the angry white working class are swinging back away from the Tories after a brief flirtation in 2019.

    4. Llanuwchllyn (Gwynedd) council by-election result:

    PC: 95.8%
    LDEM: 4.2%

    Votes cast: 384

    Plaid Cymru HOLD.

    Previously elected unopposed.

    The least interesting as this is PC country, but that's certainly a decent majority...
    Conclusion: Lib Dems not winning here.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    I would never allow my employees to only work eight hours
    Rght, that's you of my potential employment list!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    edited September 2022
    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    As long as you spend it. Will you spend it?

    Giving extra to poorer people does a better job boosting the economy through their higher propensity to consume?
    It only partly makes up for my real terms pay cut of 7%, so in real terms I shall spend less than last year.
    I suspect that most people out there are getting a real terms pay cut of more than you are.
    Quite possibly so, but that just means an even bigger contraction in consumer spending for them than me in percentage terms.
    Isn't your spending expectations more influenced by stockmarkets? Mine is and I think this effect is overlooked. The purse-strings become tighter when investors see stock values withering.
    Not really. I have 5 figures in various equities, put aside for my retirement in ISAs etc. I am neither adding nor withdrawing from that portfolio at present, though am rebalanced a bit.

    It is a long term saving, so I don't get too agitated over short term fluctuations.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    I would never allow my employees to only work eight hours
    Do you have them electronically tagged ?
    Chained to desks.
  • Carnyx said:

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    There is a reason - so many employers are the ban hammer word. As you're proposing a liberalisation of practices so different things can do their own thing, instead of "just start earlier" we get anarchy. These schools start earlier than those schools in the same town. Employers don't change hours because why should they, and it becomes a big mess.
    You do realise don't you that year-round "summer time" is something the European Union has voted for by QMV and is mandating for all countries. I'm surprised if Britain post-Brexit is continuing with it, its an area where I think it absolutely should not be determined on an EU level, and one I'd happily see post-Brexit Britain diverge from.

    But if the Scottish Government said that they were eg operating schools from 9:40 - 4:30 instead of 8:40 - 3:30 and they were recommending businesses to operate from 10 - 6 instead of 9 - 5 (or adjust times if its the other way around) then that wouldn't be anarchy. Lots of businesses operate on a basis of 'the done thing' and especially what schools are doing, and those that are would adopt the new recommended hours instead of sticking with the old 'done thing'.
    If that happened surely there would be huge howls from the Unionists about the SNP breaking up Britain by making Scotland work to different hours. Which is probably a deliberate feature in the Tories' minds.
    Education is a devolved matter.

    Hollywood's guidance is a devolved matter.

    The SNP could use its existing powers to try to make things better, but it's easier to rail against Westminster instead.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    This is like that Simpson's episode when Lisa goes bad so Bart decides to go good. Of course, it doesn't work like that, so I am a incredulous at the left moaning about Tory profligacy.
    You may or may not have noticed but I am as dry as dust on debt and deficit.

    I think we should run a balanced budget and fund services from current taxation, over a very short cycle. If that requires tax rises then OK.
    And yet you may be shortly retiring due to the pensions issue, which is about paying more tax.

    More tax is always good if someone else is paying it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    On Today, @SimonClarkeMP literally just said that the point of raising NI was to raise money for public services, and the point of cutting it is to raise money for public services. Whatever you think of the policy, they've completely given up on any pretence at credibility.
    https://twitter.com/jdportes/status/1573209522457706497
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Personally I think moving our timezone permanently to GMT+1 is a very silly idea.

    But the people on both sides of the debate get far too hyperbolic. There's no reason why schools need to start at 8:40, they could start at 7:40 or 9:40 instead.
    Pray tell how a working parent is supposed to drop off smaller kids at 9.40am.

    There's no reason workplaces can't operate from 8-4 or 10-6.
    I would never allow my employees to only work eight hours
    Do you have them electronically tagged ?
    Chained to desks.
    Worse still, get them to commute, I remember the day when I was called to collect my son from Primary school immediately following a major gas leak. I will be right with you in two hours! That was fun.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    edited September 2022
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    As long as you spend it. Will you spend it?

    Giving extra to poorer people does a better job boosting the economy through their higher propensity to consume?
    It only partly makes up for my real terms pay cut of 7%, so in real terms I shall spend less than last year.
    I suspect that most people out there are getting a real terms pay cut of more than you are.
    Quite possibly so, but that just means an even bigger contraction in consumer spending for them than me in percentage terms.
    Isn't your spending expectations more influenced by stockmarkets? Mine is and I think this effect is overlooked. The purse-strings become tighter when investors see stock values withering.
    Not really. I have 5 figures in various equities, put aside for my retirement in ISAs etc. I am neither adding nor withdrawing from that portfolio at present, though am rebalanced a bit.

    It is a long term saving, so I don't get too agitated over short term fluctuations.
    Different topic - what are the chances of Leicester being relegated? I've backed them at 4/1 to go down, and topped up yesterday at 2/1.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    Scott_xP said:

    On Today, @SimonClarkeMP literally just said that the point of raising NI was to raise money for public services, and the point of cutting it is to raise money for public services. Whatever you think of the policy, they've completely given up on any pretence at credibility.
    https://twitter.com/jdportes/status/1573209522457706497

    You’re being unfair. It’s an entirely new government. Ignore the black = white stuff. They’ve only had two weeks.
  • Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    As long as you spend it. Will you spend it?

    Giving extra to poorer people does a better job boosting the economy through their higher propensity to consume?
    It only partly makes up for my real terms pay cut of 7%, so in real terms I shall spend less than last year.
    I suspect that most people out there are getting a real terms pay cut of more than you are.
    Isn't the current sitrep that private sector employers are having to keep pay at least on the same planet as inflation?

    It's the government who are being stingy a) because they think they can and b) their numbers don't add up if they pay to fill all the vacancies in schools'n'hospitals.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This, a million times.

    When you listen to the Chancellor today, try to imagine how the Conservative Party would react if - with debt and interest payments at their current level - a Labour government announced a package of tax cuts targeted at *its* core vote paid for by a big increase in borrowing...

    Labour inflation bad, Tory inflation good!

    Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good!
    Mrs Thatcher will be spinning in her grave.
    How that NI cut works out:



    Suits me!

    As long as you spend it. Will you spend it?

    Giving extra to poorer people does a better job boosting the economy through their higher propensity to consume?
    It only partly makes up for my real terms pay cut of 7%, so in real terms I shall spend less than last year.
    I suspect that most people out there are getting a real terms pay cut of more than you are.
    Isn't the current sitrep that private sector employers are having to keep pay at least on the same planet as inflation?

    It's the government who are being stingy a) because they think they can and b) their numbers don't add up if they pay to fill all the vacancies in schools'n'hospitals.
    I think the opposite. I know no-one in the private sector who has had a significant pay rise - many haven't had one at all - and look askance at the increases in the public sector. This may be a unrepresentative sample I know - which is why I ask here.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A number of consistent stories on social media that Russia is actually pushing forward with something more like full mobilisation in the rural and ethnic minority areas while going gently on Moscow and St Petersburg. Confirmed by the Russian I interviewed earlier today who told me he didn't expect to be called up as he is in Moscow and has a long term injury.

    A form of ethnic cleansing? White Russians like other ethno-nationalists around Europe fear being outbred by minorities in their borders. Sending the young menfolk in to be slaughtered in Ukraine is a handy way of stemming the tide while achieving geopolitical and domestic political aims.

    The republics of the South and Far East need to wake up to what's being done and seize back their independence. If Chechnya has another go it might find it has more support from outside than last time. There may never be a better opportunity.

    Indeed. If you're a young man in Yakutia or Dagestan you're thinking: Why the Fuck should I die for Putin?

    But this is obviously the risk of Full Mobilisation, and Putin must know this, which makes me think he is much more frightened and paranoid then we realise. Which is not good
    He is definitely frightened because everything he has touched in last 12 months has turned to absolute shit and he knows it. As do the elite around him.

    He has pulled off one of the greatest military disasters in decades if not hundreds of years.

    And there is more to come.

    Yes, I'm worried about Putin because he is losing, calamitously, not because he is winning
    FWIW, as a wild prediction, I think he will use a tactical nuke in desperation to try and scare the West away from Ukraine and then a NATO rain of absolute airforce fire will wipe out so much of the command structure, senior officers locations and general staff and comms in the field that the elite will remove him from office before it gets worse.

    Might be my normalcy bias but I can’t see Russia using the first nuclear weapon in war since 1945. I still believe there are enough sensible people involved in the chain of command.
    One of my closest friends used to run the situation room for Middle East and Afghanistan at NATO headquarters outside Brussels. British military planners are taught that the Russians see the use of tactical nukes as nothing more than a heavier form of artillery on their side whilst being aware of their potential to paralyse and disorient NATO and the West. Or at least the politicians in the West. One of the main jobs of the NATO planners and senior leaders in the event of the Russians using nukes on the battlefield is to put it into perspective for Western political leaders and stop them doing something stupid.
    Just clarifying, but is the perspective that use of small nukes should be downplayed and no big deal made of it?
    Not downplayed, just put into perspective. The concern amongst the military apparently is that politicians will see the use of battlefield nukes as being indicative of the Russians being willing to use the ICBMs so they are keen to ensure it is clear to politicians that there is a big distinction in Russian minds between the use of tactical and strategic nuclear arsenals. They are not trying to limit the western response, just put the Russian use into context.
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