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LizT compared with others who’ve became PM mid-parliament – politicalbetting.com

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  • John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    A Labour former special adviser tells me they think, given the state of the economy, Truss will be out by March

    Our first openly gay Prime Minister would be a good way to detract from the collapsing economy, I'll grant you that.
  • The Daily Mail seems to like the sound of Truss's fiscal event.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11241019/Kwasi-Kwarteng-vows-new-era-Britain-unveils-package-measures-turbo-charge-growth.html

    Things are looking BRIGHTER! Chancellor to pledge a ‘new era for Britain’ in mini-Budget with biggest tax giveaway in 30 years to spark growth surge – and could even knock a penny off income tax and bring in year-round daylight savings
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    Fishing said:

    Carnyx said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Hmm, the Scots won't be happy, or the farmers in the North of England and Ireland. DArk till amost 1000, and it's not even proper natural time.
    I don't understand why this country can't have two time zones if that's an issue. Plenty of other countries are split.
    I was driving in Arizona, and saw the clock on my phone go back an hour... and then a few miles further it went back again.

    It turns out that while all of Arizona is on Mountain Time, only some parts of it have daylight saving.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    Carnyx said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Hmm, the Scots won't be happy, or the farmers in the North of England and Ireland. DArk till amost 1000, and it's not even proper natural time.
    I don't understand why this country can't have two time zones if that's an issue. Plenty of other countries are split.
    Spot on. Rebrand GMT Glasgow Mean Time and let the rest of us get on with our lives free from its gloomy misery.

    Get London on Central European Time :+1: Next up, apply for EU membership
    There will be some (crazy) people for who that is the key stumbling block.

    But it roughly makes sense; if we only have eight hours of daylight, it's more efficient and rational to use them for the 9-5 workday rather than 8-4. More of a problem further north, I acknowledge.

    Maybe the government will do the right but

    unpopular thing.
    In this case, I think it would actually be popular. Suspect few people south of the Humber have much affection for GMT - most struggle to see the point of it.
    Some kids will get knocked over by a car on the way to school in Wick and Scotland becomes a independent country. The butterfly effect.

    (I was northerly enough to walk to and from school in twilight. Didn't help that the uniform was all black ...)
    Walk to school? I thought they all got driven to school in their mummies’ SUVs.
  • Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Voting starts in the referendums tomorrow. I wonder what result the Kremlin has decided to go for.

    Does it actually need to be rigged given that the referenda are in current de facto Russian territory and every Ukranian man of fighting age has apparently been mobilised ?

    That being said they'll juice it to ~90-10 I think.
    It has been suggested from time to time that some autocratic regimes have sufficient popularity that they might actually win a free and fair election. But of course, as Kasparov for one has notably stated, that doesn't mean anything since they don't dare risk that.

    When you are used to rigging it is probably hard to know when not to bother. Plus there's the question of how you rig - prevent opposition voices being heard, intimidate them from voting, ban candidates etc, ballot stuff, or just plain make it all up completely.

    Christ, the logistics of it all at such speed, in the place that they are, is such that even if they would win a vote given who actually remains in the area, they would need to rig things simply because they won't be able to get enough people to take part.
    I remember when the Burmese Junta were daft enough to allow a free vote, believing their own propaganda . The National League for Democracy got over 80% of the vote.
    Ol' Pineapple Face in Panama was another. As was Marcos in the Philippines.

    The best result for The Caudillos was in Paraguay. Rodríguez launched a coup against Stroesser. Then released all the opposition leaders, freed the press, even did a real anti-corruption drive. Though not against himself.

    Then he actually won a fairly free election. Then he obeyed a provision in the new constitution that presidents could only serve one term and went home.

    People are still trying to work out why he did this.

  • I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.
  • AlistairM said:

    Not sure if this is genuine? (video on the link)

    🚨🇮🇷#Iran: Reports coming from Tehran that the city is liberated and the Islamic regime has lost control of almost all areas.
    https://twitter.com/Terror_Alarm/status/1573066413459251200

    Sounds overblown based on other reports. But clearly PLENTY of unrest on the streets in cities across Iran.
  • Re: Alex Jones trial & antics, am wonder, what are odds that he will serve the longest time for contempt of court in US history?

    Current record = 14 years

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Beatty_Chadwick#:~:text=Beatty Chadwick (born 1936) is,ex-wife during their divorce.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited September 2022

    Carnyx said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Hmm, the Scots won't be happy, or the farmers in the North of England and Ireland. DArk till amost 1000, and it's not even proper natural time.
    This Scot would be delighted. It must surely be safer for people to go to work or school in the dark, in the morning, when they are fresh, than come home in the dark, in the evening, when they are tired? In fact, I would go further. It would be good if people could come home from work and do outside things in daylight. Those who work outside could work different hours.
    It is worth looking at Portugal's failed experiment with this in 1992.

    "The measure quickly proved to be a failure in achieving its objectives and became unpopular: on winter mornings, the sun was still rising at 09:00 and people travelled to work in the dark. Children also began the school day in darkness, with repercussions on their standards of learning, school performance and sleeping habits. It was even common that children fell asleep in the early morning classes. On summer evenings, the usage of Central European Summer Time was revealed to have a disturbing effect on peoples', especially children's, sleeping habits, as the sun was still setting as late as 22:30, so the sky was only completely dark towards midnight.

    A company hired by European Commission conducted a study which concluded that, in fact, there were no energy savings because, due to the dark early mornings, workers turned on lights in their offices and forgot to turn them off, leaving them switched on for the rest of the morning, which increased energy consumption. Furthermore, an increase in the number of assaults on children in the morning was observed, and insurance companies reported a rise in the number of accidents"

    So saying it will help conserve energy is bunkum. As are the claims about it being better for safety. And given that Portugal is a lot further south than even London we could expect the downside to be considerably worse here.

    It is a genuinely stupid idea promoted only by those who lack the initiative to make the very insignificant adjustments twice a year.
    Perhaps if we drew a line at the Humber we could spread out the peak of electricity consumption? It might not make a difference to overall consumption but might drop the standby requirements.

    Anyway, I'm all for permanent GMT, not permanent BST. "Shift" your day, not the clock!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Dynamo said:

    Zelensky says one of his non-negotiable conditions for peace is that Russia be stripped of its permanent seat on the UN Security Council - which of course it can't be.


    Russia could have its UN Security Council status as successor to the USSR stripped.

    And given to Ukraine.

    That would be fun.
  • Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    Isn’t the evidence that kids tend to muck around more on the way home from school rather than on the way to it? So brighter afternoons is the lesser evil of darker mornings.
  • Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Well it didn't when it was tried in Portugal. Accidents went up.
  • Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Also worth pointing out that even with the shift, for the vast majority of England from the Midlands North you would still be coming home in the dark in December and January. The difference is you would be going to work in the dark in the morning as well.
  • Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    By election results

    Sussex (Wealden) Green gain from Con
    Stoke Lab Hold
    Gwynnedd PC hold (95.5%!)
    Coventry Con Gain from Lab
  • Sherbourne (Coventry) council by-election result:

    CON: 53.3% (+14.3)
    LAB: 29.7% (-10.2)
    GRN: 5.3% (-4.0)
    TUSC: 4.7% (+0.4)
    LDEM: 3.6% (-1.3)
    CCP: 3.5% (+0.7)

    Votes cast: 2,644

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.Sherbourne (Coventry) council by-election result:

    CON: 53.3% (+14.3)
    LAB: 29.7% (-10.2)
    GRN: 5.3% (-4.0)
    TUSC: 4.7% (+0.4)
    LDEM: 3.6% (-1.3)
    CCP: 3.5% (+0.7)

    Votes cast: 2,644

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited September 2022

    Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?

    That's why BST is a nonsense. You could move the start and end of the school day to suit wherever you are, and the clock would continue to read a sane time rather than something offset for no apparent reason.

    In the Western Isles you'd admittedly be about 30 minutes off solar time but that's better than 90 minutes...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited September 2022

    Sherbourne (Coventry) council by-election result:

    CON: 53.3% (+14.3)
    LAB: 29.7% (-10.2)
    GRN: 5.3% (-4.0)
    TUSC: 4.7% (+0.4)
    LDEM: 3.6% (-1.3)
    CCP: 3.5% (+0.7)

    Votes cast: 2,644

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.Sherbourne (Coventry) council by-election result:

    CON: 53.3% (+14.3)
    LAB: 29.7% (-10.2)
    GRN: 5.3% (-4.0)
    TUSC: 4.7% (+0.4)
    LDEM: 3.6% (-1.3)
    CCP: 3.5% (+0.7)

    Votes cast: 2,644

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    They did get hammered by the Greens in Wealden though!
    This one though suggests the Bolton result last week wasnt necessarily a flash in the pan. Since Truss some gains have been made. Actual vote bounce.
    But not in Sussex!
    They gained share and retained vote numbers from May in Stoke too but Labour gained more and held that one comfortably
  • Sherbourne (Coventry) council by-election result:

    CON: 53.3% (+14.3)
    LAB: 29.7% (-10.2)
    GRN: 5.3% (-4.0)
    TUSC: 4.7% (+0.4)
    LDEM: 3.6% (-1.3)
    CCP: 3.5% (+0.7)

    Votes cast: 2,644

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.Sherbourne (Coventry) council by-election result:

    CON: 53.3% (+14.3)
    LAB: 29.7% (-10.2)
    GRN: 5.3% (-4.0)
    TUSC: 4.7% (+0.4)
    LDEM: 3.6% (-1.3)
    CCP: 3.5% (+0.7)

    Votes cast: 2,644

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    They did get hammered by the Greens in Wealden though!
    This one though suggests the Bolton result last week wasnt necessarily a flash in the pan. Since Truss some gains have been made. Actual vote bounce.
    But not in Sussex!
    They gained share and retained vote numvers from May in Stoke too but Labour gained more and held that one comfortably
    Truss will surely get some votes from the BST policy. Good idea
  • Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?

    Its not just the extremities. The majority of the population would go from coming home in the dark in the middle of winter to going to work and coming home in the dark. How is that an improvement.

    Those advocating these changes need to look at facts not theories and the facts are that the last country to try this gave it up after it was found to have few benefits and lots of downsides. We tried it ourselves for 2 years at the start of the seventies and it proved very unpopular when the reality set in.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    MattW said:

    Fishing said:

    MattW said:

    Second. Just.

    First off-topic.

    Interesting that Germany is introducing a Green Card to try and pull in under 35, intelligent foreigners. To the possible tune of 100s of k of immigrants required per year.

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-introduce-green-card-to-bolster-workforce/a-63046971

    One problem is that Germany is perceived as bureaucratic and difficult.

    I had a friend who had to deal with German bureaucrats professionally over many years and he said they always brought to mind the Vogons in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

    To remind, the HGG described the Vogons as:

    "one of the most unpleasant races in the galaxy—not actually evil, but bad-tempered, bureaucratic, officious and callous", and having "as much sex appeal as a road accident" as well as being the authors of "the third worst poetry in the universe""
    Jon Worth has some notes about getting German Citizenship. He hasn't made it yet :smile:

    https://jonworth.eu/notes-about-brits-getting-german-citizenship-in-light-of-brexit/
    While there are certainly areas where Germany is very bureaucratic, getting citizenship is a poor example - every country in the world has rules about this. Jon Worth is merely pointing out how long you have to be resident, and the fact that Germany doesn't usually allow dual citizenship, although that is due to be relaxed.

    For me it was pretty straightforward and fast. Seemed far easier than for people I know of trying to get British citizenship. Italy is even worse.

    Getting married as a foreigner, on the other hand, can be complicated. The friendly German bureaucrat (in my experience most of them are very friendly) at the local Amt told us to look at the places over the Danish border where lots of foreigners go to get married. There are Danish border towns that make it a business, supplying witnesses and everything. Eventually we did it in England.
  • Meddling with BST, caged animal exports, the working time directive, and bankers bonuses.

    Truss doesn’t want to win the next election, does she?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Sherbourne (Coventry) council by-election result:

    CON: 53.3% (+14.3)
    LAB: 29.7% (-10.2)
    GRN: 5.3% (-4.0)
    TUSC: 4.7% (+0.4)
    LDEM: 3.6% (-1.3)
    CCP: 3.5% (+0.7)

    Votes cast: 2,644

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.Sherbourne (Coventry) council by-election result:

    CON: 53.3% (+14.3)
    LAB: 29.7% (-10.2)
    GRN: 5.3% (-4.0)
    TUSC: 4.7% (+0.4)
    LDEM: 3.6% (-1.3)
    CCP: 3.5% (+0.7)

    Votes cast: 2,644

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    They did get hammered by the Greens in Wealden though!
    This one though suggests the Bolton result last week wasnt necessarily a flash in the pan. Since Truss some gains have been made. Actual vote bounce.
    But not in Sussex!
    They gained share and retained vote numvers from May in Stoke too but Labour gained more and held that one comfortably
    Truss will surely get some votes from the BST policy. Good idea
    Maybe, yeah. Sherbourne is in Coventry NW I believe, a Labour ultra marginal. Interesting.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?

    That's why BST is a nonsense. You could move the start and end of the school day to suit wherever you are, and the clock would continue to read a sane time rather than something offset for no apparent reason.

    In the Western Isles you'd admittedly be about 30 minutes off solar time but that's better than 90 minutes...
    But if you varied school times locally, the apocalypse would happen.

    Remember how staggering school holidays regionally, is completely impossible?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    Meddling with BST, caged animal exports, the working time directive, and bankers bonuses.

    Truss doesn’t want to win the next election, does she?

    You understand caged animal exports were never banned? In fact, it would have been illegal for us to ban them in the EU. We are free to ban them or not (see also fur & foie).
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Llanuwchllyn (Gwynedd) council by-election result:

    PC: 95.8%
    LDEM: 4.2%

    Votes cast: 384

    Plaid Cymru HOLD.

    Previously elected unopposed.
  • carnforth said:

    Meddling with BST, caged animal exports, the working time directive, and bankers bonuses.

    Truss doesn’t want to win the next election, does she?

    You understand caged animal exports were never banned? In fact, it would have been illegal for us to ban them in the EU. We are free to ban them or not (see also fur & foie).
    Yes, and?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    carnforth said:

    Meddling with BST, caged animal exports, the working time directive, and bankers bonuses.

    Truss doesn’t want to win the next election, does she?

    You understand caged animal exports were never banned? In fact, it would have been illegal for us to ban them in the EU. We are free to ban them or not (see also fur & foie).
    Yes, and?
    You listed it alongside bankers bonuses and the WTD, both of which involve using a brexit freedom rather than failing to use one, so I asked whether you knew. That is all.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/we-keep-running-ukrainian-rail-unbowed-in-face-of-war/

    Apparently, Eastern Europe is quite serious about modifying its rail to from the Wider gauge used there and in Russia, to the narrower gauge used in Western Europe.

    The difference in gauges was a serious stone in the shoe of the Germans when they invaded. Given how railway bound the Russian army is, the same in the other direction, for the future....
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Meddling with BST, caged animal exports, the working time directive, and bankers bonuses.

    Truss doesn’t want to win the next election, does she?

    You understand caged animal exports were never banned? In fact, it would have been illegal for us to ban them in the EU. We are free to ban them or not (see also fur & foie).
    Yes, and?
    You listed it alongside bankers bonuses and the WTD, both of which involve using a brexit freedom rather than failing to use one, so I asked whether you knew. That is all.
    Although it is worth noting that our moral arbiters, the ferry companies, had effectively banned most live animal exports by refusing to carry the traffic.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited September 2022
    Referendums to be held Fri 23 until Tue 27 Sep: ballot papers printed in Russian in DPR and LPR, in Russian and Ukrainian in Kherson and Zaporozhye.
  • carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Meddling with BST, caged animal exports, the working time directive, and bankers bonuses.

    Truss doesn’t want to win the next election, does she?

    You understand caged animal exports were never banned? In fact, it would have been illegal for us to ban them in the EU. We are free to ban them or not (see also fur & foie).
    Yes, and?
    You listed it alongside bankers bonuses and the WTD, both of which involve using a brexit freedom rather than failing to use one, so I asked whether you knew. That is all.
    My point is rather than each are highly unpopular with cross-party slices of the electorate, and deliver fuck all economic growth unto themselves.

    No canny politician would touch them with a bargepole.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    edited September 2022

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Meddling with BST, caged animal exports, the working time directive, and bankers bonuses.

    Truss doesn’t want to win the next election, does she?

    You understand caged animal exports were never banned? In fact, it would have been illegal for us to ban them in the EU. We are free to ban them or not (see also fur & foie).
    Yes, and?
    You listed it alongside bankers bonuses and the WTD, both of which involve using a brexit freedom rather than failing to use one, so I asked whether you knew. That is all.
    My point is rather than each are highly unpopular with cross-party slices of the electorate, and deliver fuck all economic growth unto themselves.

    No canny politician would touch them with a bargepole.
    Indeed. Unless being unpopular is ones brand.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    AlistairM said:

    Not sure if this is genuine? (video on the link)

    🚨🇮🇷#Iran: Reports coming from Tehran that the city is liberated and the Islamic regime has lost control of almost all areas.
    https://twitter.com/Terror_Alarm/status/1573066413459251200

    Sounds overblown based on other reports. But clearly PLENTY of unrest on the streets in cities across Iran.
    Hard to fight your demography. Plenty of angry young men.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited September 2022

    Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?

    That's why BST is a nonsense. You could move the start and end of the school day to suit wherever you are, and the clock would continue to read a sane time rather than something offset for no apparent reason.

    In the Western Isles you'd admittedly be about 30 minutes off solar time but that's better than 90 minutes...
    But if you varied school times locally, the apocalypse would happen.

    Remember how staggering school holidays regionally, is completely impossible?
    I was going to say we hadn't seen the Horsemen here yet given Yorkshire staggers half terms between authorities but then I remembered...


    On a practical note, is a month long enough to patch all the computers that care about local time?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Meddling with BST, caged animal exports, the working time directive, and bankers bonuses.

    Truss doesn’t want to win the next election, does she?

    You understand caged animal exports were never banned? In fact, it would have been illegal for us to ban them in the EU. We are free to ban them or not (see also fur & foie).
    Yes, and?
    You listed it alongside bankers bonuses and the WTD, both of which involve using a brexit freedom rather than failing to use one, so I asked whether you knew. That is all.
    My point is rather than each are highly unpopular with cross-party slices of the electorate, and deliver fuck all economic growth unto themselves.

    No canny politician would touch them with a bargepole.
    Indeed. Unless being unpopular is ones brand.
    I am reminded of the phrase “the third rail of american politics”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_rail_(politics)
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited September 2022

    Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?

    Its not just the extremities. The majority of the population would go from coming home in the dark in the middle of winter to going to work and coming home in the dark. How is that an improvement.

    Those advocating these changes need to look at facts not theories and the facts are that the last country to try this gave it up after it was found to have few benefits and lots of downsides. We tried it ourselves for 2 years at the start of the seventies and it proved very unpopular when the reality set in.
    I don't accept your claim at all. You're judging things from what happens in the extreme depth of winter alone. GMT goes on for 5 months until the end of March, the impact on the whole period should be looked at not just a few weeks of it around the equinox. What is not good is arriving home in the dark in February or even in March, as can happen now to a commuter working 9 to 5 (and note the lack of symmetry in those hours around noon). What people do value is the ability to have even a bit of leisure time in daylight outside of weekends, which is why the ridiculously late changing of the clocks at the end of March always lifts the spirits when it belatedly happens.

    In terms of historical precedent, the working day nowadays is shorter than it was 50 years ago. So I don't think you can judge anything from what might have happened long ago. But it should be noted that the dropping of the late 60s experiment was highly contentious. Surveys for the white paper 20 years later also found that public opinion had swung away from GMT since the the 1960s.

  • Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?

    That's why BST is a nonsense. You could move the start and end of the school day to suit wherever you are, and the clock would continue to read a sane time rather than something offset for no apparent reason.

    In the Western Isles you'd admittedly be about 30 minutes off solar time but that's better than 90 minutes...
    But if you varied school times locally, the apocalypse would happen.

    Remember how staggering school holidays regionally, is completely impossible?
    Please explain how starting the school day 30 minutes or even 60 minutes later in a few parts of the UK would play havoc with holiday arrangements.

  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2022
    I don’t care about GMT. Our relationship with time is fundamentally different now compared to the past. Instant, free communication and dirt cheap technology has changed everything.

    So long as we have an agreed standard to measure time, that’s all that matters.
  • AlistairM said:

    Not sure if this is genuine? (video on the link)

    🚨🇮🇷#Iran: Reports coming from Tehran that the city is liberated and the Islamic regime has lost control of almost all areas.
    https://twitter.com/Terror_Alarm/status/1573066413459251200

    Sounds overblown based on other reports. But clearly PLENTY of unrest on the streets in cities across Iran.
    What is there beyond 'The Islamic Regime'? Back to Zoroastrianism? I'm delighted to hear it, but it seems deeply implausible.
  • Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?

    Its not just the extremities. The majority of the population would go from coming home in the dark in the middle of winter to going to work and coming home in the dark. How is that an improvement.

    Those advocating these changes need to look at facts not theories and the facts are that the last country to try this gave it up after it was found to have few benefits and lots of downsides. We tried it ourselves for 2 years at the start of the seventies and it proved very unpopular when the reality set in.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_the_United_Kingdom

    The United Kingdom experimentally adopted Central European Time by maintaining Summer Time throughout the year from 1968 to 1971.[5] In a House of Lords debate, Richard Butler, 17th Viscount Mountgarret said that the change was welcomed at the time, but the experiment was eventually halted after a debate in 1971, in which the outcome might have been influenced by a major accident on the morning of the debate.[6]

    On other hand, a 2007 BBC report (cited in footnote 5 above) stated that, "A trial from 1968-71 saw summer time maintained all year. It was not extended, but it did result in fewer road accidents."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6292227.stm
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited September 2022
    ping said:

    I don’t care about GMT. Our relationship with time is fundamentally different now compared to the past. Instant, free communication and dirt cheap technology has changed everything.

    So long as we have an agreed standard to measure time, that’s all that matters.

    So put the whole world on the same time, and change the cultural norms as to when things are done? After all, nine to five is just cultural - we could just as easily get used to working between two and ten pm, if US Eastern were adopted as the global standard. ;)
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2022
    It makes more sense to me to start the clock at sunrise. Surely this would have made sense to the pre-industrial people, too?

    With todays tech it would be pretty simple to revert to that.

    Why the hell did GMT ever catch on? Stupid system, I recon.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    ping said:

    I don’t care about GMT. Our relationship with time is fundamentally different now compared to the past. Instant, free communication and dirt cheap technology has changed everything.

    So long as we have an agreed standard to measure time, that’s all that matters.

    This isn't true for everyone.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    MattW said:

    Second. Just.

    First off-topic.

    Interesting that Germany is introducing a Green Card to try and pull in under 35, intelligent foreigners. To the possible tune of 100s of k of immigrants required per year.

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-introduce-green-card-to-bolster-workforce/a-63046971

    One problem is that Germany is perceived as bureaucratic and difficult.

    Interesting. Thanks for the link.
  • Time to share my second favourite ever opening to a PB thread header.

    Much like getting your girlfriend pregnant on a pull out sofa there’s a deep sense of irony that the Conservative & Unionist Party, aided and abetted by the DUP, have via Brexit done more to weaken Northern Ireland’s place in the United Kingdom than the IRA.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/02/07/how-do-you-solve-a-solution-like-the-northern-ireland-protocol/

    I get that you're not remotely neutral on the issue of Brexit, but can you please run by me how the fact there's more Catholics than Protestants in the latest census was caused by either Brexit or the DUP?
  • At least they seem to have a Mosin-Nagant each.


  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    rcs1000 said: "I was driving in Arizona, and saw the clock on my phone go back an hour... and then a few miles further it went back again.

    It turns out that while all of Arizona is on Mountain Time, only some parts of it have daylight saving."

    The Navajo Reservation has daylight savings time; the rest of Arizona stays on standard time all year around. (I think the US should follow Arizona's example.)

    (It probably also would make sense not to divide states, for example, Florida and Indiana.)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    A Labour former special adviser tells me they think, given the state of the economy, Truss will be out by March

    Not going to happen. Yes, she’s shit. But even the Tories wouldn’t kick her out after only six months.
    Unless there is some irrepressible reason, like, some sort of scandal…
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    And, as I should have remembered, there's an exception to the exception: "Unlike most of the United States, Arizona does not observe daylight saving time (DST), with the exception of the Navajo Nation, which does observe DST. The Hopi Reservation, which is not part of the Navajo Nation but is geographically surrounded by it, also does not observe DST.[2] For this reason, driving the length of Arizona State Route 264 east from Tuba City while DST is in place involves six time zone changes in less than 100 miles (160 km)."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Arizona

    (The Navajo and Hopi don't always get along -- and haven't for about a thousand years.)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited September 2022
    Tory gain in Coventry on a big swing.

    (Constituency is Coventry North West where Labour have a majority of 208 votes).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?





    Well quite, or - as has been said - retain GMT for Scotland (if they want to retain it).

    GMT in London is an utter nonsense, particularly in February and March.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Eabhal said:

    Fishing said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Wonderful. Winter will be quite a bit less depressing.
    I love it. Go Tories actually a decent call
    Yes, there's nothing more depressing than going to work in daylight and going home when it's dark.

    And besides, studies have shown that this would save a significant number of lives over the winter because there would be fewer accidents.
    Not in Wick!!
    No settlements of any significant size up there. Even the Highland Region as a whole amounts to only 0.35% of the UK population, or thereabouts. So even if you're right in your premise, ignoring the interests of the vast majority of the country to focus only the interests of only a tiny minority is not a good basis for policy. Tail wagging the dog.

    And if it really did create an issue in one particular geographical extremity of the UK, there are ways around it specific to those areas. How about responding by just putting back the start and end of the school day up there by a bit, which might prompt local businesses to do the same?

    Its not just the extremities. The majority of the population would go from coming home in the dark in the middle of winter to going to work and coming home in the dark. How is that an improvement.

    Those advocating these changes need to look at facts not theories and the facts are that the last country to try this gave it up after it was found to have few benefits and lots of downsides. We tried it ourselves for 2 years at the start of the seventies and it proved very unpopular when the reality set in.
    I don't accept your claim at all. You're judging things from what happens in the extreme depth of winter alone. GMT goes on for 5 months until the end of March, the impact on the whole period should be looked at not just a few weeks of it around the equinox. What is not good is arriving home in the dark in February or even in March, as can happen now to a commuter working 9 to 5 (and note the lack of symmetry in those hours around noon). What people do value is the ability to have even a bit of leisure time in daylight outside of weekends, which is why the ridiculously late changing of the clocks at the end of March always lifts the spirits when it belatedly happens.

    In terms of historical precedent, the working day nowadays is shorter than it was 50 years ago. So I don't think you can judge anything from what might have happened long ago. But it should be noted that the dropping of the late 60s experiment was highly contentious. Surveys for the white paper 20 years later also found that public opinion had swung away from GMT since the the 1960s.

    Yes. And also worth noting that schools are closed for Christmas in the darkest fortnight of the year.
  • Dynamo said:

    Referendums to be held Fri 23 until Tue 27 Sep: ballot papers printed in Russian in DPR and LPR, in Russian and Ukrainian in Kherson and Zaporozhye.

    You don’t need to print new ballot papers… these ones would work fine

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Ballot-paper-from-the-1938-Anschluss-referendum-The-text-asks-the-voter-to-support-the_fig2_284716290
  • Looking at yesterday's barracking JRM got in Parliament over Fracking from his own side, it does make the West Lancs byelection a bit more interesting, the Fylde (just up from West Lancs constituency) has already had various fracking tremors and feelings are running high, whether this is to the benefit of Greens or Lab is hard to predict but it will certainly challenge those canvassing for the Blues.... the seat will of course stay Labour, but it might cause a flap among NW Tories
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158

    Looking at yesterday's barracking JRM got in Parliament over Fracking from his own side, it does make the West Lancs byelection a bit more interesting, the Fylde (just up from West Lancs constituency) has already had various fracking tremors and feelings are running high, whether this is to the benefit of Greens or Lab is hard to predict but it will certainly challenge those canvassing for the Blues.... the seat will of course stay Labour, but it might cause a flap among NW Tories

    It is worth noting that:

    (a) fracking tremors are not like real earthquakes; they are tiny wobbles in the ground. With that said, if they cause damage to property, then that will need to be paid for

    (b) right now, it's all exploratory wells. The disruption (now) is negligible. Let's see what there is, and then we can debate whether the benefits exceed the costs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited September 2022
    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Good idea, I don't like it getting dark at 4pm in the winter.

    Peter Hitchens won't be happy: he wants to have GMT all year round.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    AlistairM said:

    Not sure if this is genuine? (video on the link)

    🚨🇮🇷#Iran: Reports coming from Tehran that the city is liberated and the Islamic regime has lost control of almost all areas.
    https://twitter.com/Terror_Alarm/status/1573066413459251200

    Sounds overblown based on other reports. But clearly PLENTY of unrest on the streets in cities across Iran.
    If there is a crackdown, then expect more refugees. Will we send them to Rwanda of treat them like Ukranians?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Andy_JS said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Good idea, I don't like it getting dark at 4pm in the winter.

    Peter Hitchens won't be happy: he wants to have GMT all year round.
    In this day and age we should be free to identify as whichever time zone we want.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Looking at yesterday's barracking JRM got in Parliament over Fracking from his own side, it does make the West Lancs byelection a bit more interesting, the Fylde (just up from West Lancs constituency) has already had various fracking tremors and feelings are running high, whether this is to the benefit of Greens or Lab is hard to predict but it will certainly challenge those canvassing for the Blues.... the seat will of course stay Labour, but it might cause a flap among NW Tories

    It is worth noting that:

    (a) fracking tremors are not like real earthquakes; they are tiny wobbles in the ground. With that said, if they cause damage to property, then that will need to be paid for

    (b) right now, it's all exploratory wells. The disruption (now) is negligible. Let's see what there is, and then we can debate whether the benefits exceed the costs.
    Somehow I suspect the `debate' will soon descend into the usual mud slinging.....
  • rcs1000 said:

    Looking at yesterday's barracking JRM got in Parliament over Fracking from his own side, it does make the West Lancs byelection a bit more interesting, the Fylde (just up from West Lancs constituency) has already had various fracking tremors and feelings are running high, whether this is to the benefit of Greens or Lab is hard to predict but it will certainly challenge those canvassing for the Blues.... the seat will of course stay Labour, but it might cause a flap among NW Tories

    It is worth noting that:

    (a) fracking tremors are not like real earthquakes; they are tiny wobbles in the ground. With that said, if they cause damage to property, then that will need to be paid for

    (b) right now, it's all exploratory wells. The disruption (now) is negligible. Let's see what there is, and then we can debate whether the benefits exceed the costs.
    Not sure how long it would be between discovery and input to the gas system. It will still cost the same as imported though.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Comparisons may be a little tricky given she has both a very tough economic/political picture *and* has been overshadowed by recent events. In a week or two, a clearer picture may emerge.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    Good morning, everyone.

    Comparisons may be a little tricky given she has both a very tough economic/political picture *and* has been overshadowed by recent events. In a week or two, a clearer picture may emerge.

    Her ratings artificially high?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Looking at yesterday's barracking JRM got in Parliament over Fracking from his own side, it does make the West Lancs byelection a bit more interesting, the Fylde (just up from West Lancs constituency) has already had various fracking tremors and feelings are running high, whether this is to the benefit of Greens or Lab is hard to predict but it will certainly challenge those canvassing for the Blues.... the seat will of course stay Labour, but it might cause a flap among NW Tories

    It is worth noting that:

    (a) fracking tremors are not like real earthquakes; they are tiny wobbles in the ground. With that said, if they cause damage to property, then that will need to be paid for

    (b) right now, it's all exploratory wells. The disruption (now) is negligible. Let's see what there is, and then we can debate whether the benefits exceed the costs.
    Not sure how long it would be between discovery and input to the gas system. It will still cost the same as imported though.
    Is a small extra cost that important though? The Ukraine situation and Russia's gas blackmail has brought an important factor forward (and one which some on here have been wittering on about for some time): energy security.

    How much more would Germany have paid for gas over the last decade to avoid the situation they now find themselves in? How much are we willing to pay for power in the future to avoid the price shocks we are paying now?

    Is 5% extra each year worth it to avoid a 100%+ spike every couple of decades (and the ensuing geopolitical instability)?

    This is not necessarily and argument for fracking; it is an argument to avoid us relying too heavily on any source of power that had to come from abroad.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Jonathan said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Comparisons may be a little tricky given she has both a very tough economic/political picture *and* has been overshadowed by recent events. In a week or two, a clearer picture may emerge.

    Her ratings artificially high?
    Surely owing to the circumstances following her appointment she must have been freer from any political criticism whatsoever than any new prime minister for the last 80 years.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at yesterday's barracking JRM got in Parliament over Fracking from his own side, it does make the West Lancs byelection a bit more interesting, the Fylde (just up from West Lancs constituency) has already had various fracking tremors and feelings are running high, whether this is to the benefit of Greens or Lab is hard to predict but it will certainly challenge those canvassing for the Blues.... the seat will of course stay Labour, but it might cause a flap among NW Tories

    It is worth noting that:

    (a) fracking tremors are not like real earthquakes; they are tiny wobbles in the ground. With that said, if they cause damage to property, then that will need to be paid for

    (b) right now, it's all exploratory wells. The disruption (now) is negligible. Let's see what there is, and then we can debate whether the benefits exceed the costs.
    Not sure how long it would be between discovery and input to the gas system. It will still cost the same as imported though.
    IF we can produce gas at the same cost as imported we do it. From what I have read on here this seems unlikely but the idea, well, we can just import it instead, has got us into a terrible place. Our balance of payments is, and has been for 20 years now, our biggest problem and we need to do all we can to fix it. Import substitution with domestic gas would be a start.

    With the huge new windfarms off England we will get nearer to self sufficiency in energy but we need to produce as much as we can. There is, for want of better words, a common market in energy in Europe with the interconnectors. We need to become a net exporter there, as in so many areas.
  • Royalists: how dare you compare us to deranged religious cultists?


  • Andy_JS said:

    carnforth said:

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1573042498703958017?s=46&t=pKbiqcpdZoA6dYT4UQdLtA

    “Hearing rumours that there will be a big announcement about rolling out British Summertime all year round tomorrow. With the cost of energy, sources tell me that it’s a “done deal”.”

    Good idea, I don't like it getting dark at 4pm in the winter.

    Peter Hitchens won't be happy: he wants to have GMT all year round.
    Is Peter Hitchens ever happy?
  • ping said:

    I don’t care about GMT. Our relationship with time is fundamentally different now compared to the past. Instant, free communication and dirt cheap technology has changed everything.

    So long as we have an agreed standard to measure time, that’s all that matters.

    A standard to measure time? We should go back to the old Japanese imperial time system, where the length of an hour was linked to the length of daylight. So in summer daylight hours get longer, and in winter daylight hours get shorter (night-time hours obviously did the opposite).

    They moved to our inferior 'western' system because it was too difficult to make clocks. But instant, free communication and dirt cheap technology has changed everything.

    We'd also get the bonus of the hour names: 'Eleven o'clock' is boring. It's much better to say "We'll have the meeting at Snake, and then lunch at Horse".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_clock#Traditional_Japanese_time_system
  • At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.
  • Mr. Jessop, the hour length varied according to daylight in medieval England too.

    Back when I wrote fiction, I liked messing with clocks for elven cities. One used massive candles/incense sticks that burnt down through the day, so you'd have sandalwood o'clock etc.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited September 2022
    ping said:

    It makes more sense to me to start the clock at sunrise. Surely this would have made sense to the pre-industrial people, too?

    With todays tech it would be pretty simple to revert to that.

    Why the hell did GMT ever catch on? Stupid system, I recon.

    Railway timetables. Until the nineteenth century, all parts of the country set their times by defining ‘noon’ as the moment the sun reaches its zenith. Due to the rotation of the earth, that was later the further west you go, so in Cornwall it was 11.41 when in London it was 12.

    Not a problem for a stagecoach, but on some of Gooch’s faster trains going west it could cause real confusion as people didn’t want to slowly adjust their watch as they moved.

    The solution was to put everyone on to the time of the Greenwich meridian, which had the significant advantage of being already extensively used in navigation so was widely known and understood throughout the country. This meant you didn’t need to adjust your watch or do mental arithmetic when changing trains.

    (This is incidentally why Ireland was 25 minutes off from London, to answer another point upthread. No through trains, so no need to standardise with London.)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    The problem we have is that on windy days, we still burn gas. That’s avoidable. Meanwhile, I’m befuddled why Trussonomics loves fracking up the country, but hates solar.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Re nuclear weapons, I hope Biden instead of panicking like everyone on here is asking the right question:

    Who do we offer $5 million to to NOT press the nuclear button if ordered to do so?

    The alternative is a cyber attack to destroy their systems, but the bribe is probably cheaper and more effective.
  • Royalists: how dare you compare us to deranged religious cultists?


    To be fair to royalists, Charles Moore is on the nutty end of most spectrums. After all (rumour has it) it was he who persuaded Boris to go all in on protecting Owen Patterson (although that may turn out to have been a great service to the country given it was the turning point for BJ)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Jonathan said:

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    The problem we have is that on windy days, we still burn gas. That’s avoidable. Meanwhile, I’m befuddled why Trussonomics loves fracking up the country, but hates solar.
    Yes, on windy days once Hornsea 2 and Dogger bank are operative we might be able to reduce imported gas consumption to near zero. We would still want to use our own production of course. Vociferous local objections have failed to block a solar energy development near Dundee in the last couple of days. We have to have a lot more of that too.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,089

    Mr. Jessop, the hour length varied according to daylight in medieval England too.

    Back when I wrote fiction, I liked messing with clocks for elven cities. One used massive candles/incense sticks that burnt down through the day, so you'd have sandalwood o'clock etc.

    As really existed in non-fiction too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incense_clock
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    We are also importing nearly 10% of our energy through the interconnectors. And, of course, much of that gas is also imported.
  • Royalists: how dare you compare us to deranged religious cultists?


    To be fair to royalists, Charles Moore is on the nutty end of most spectrums. After all (rumour has it) it was he who persuaded Boris to go all in on protecting Owen Patterson (although that may turn out to have been a great service to the country given it was the turning point for BJ)
    It's clickbait for the sort of people who read the Spectator, innit?

    Nothing wrong with clickbait as a business model. More problematic when you expect some of your organ's other outputs to be taken seriously.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Jeremy Corbyn: "To falsely accuse somebody of any kind of racism is a major, dishonest and dishonourable thing to do. I will die an anti-racist."

    https://twitter.com/politicsjoe_uk/status/1572994899430998016

    The thing about Jeremy Corbyn is, he just doesn't understand English irony.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Yes, it does appear that any referendum in Donetsk Oblast is going to be missing some voters to say the least.
  • Mr. Gezou, I think (can't be sure, was a while ago) I did indeed get inspired/ripped off real life. It was quite fun thinking of setting an alarm for juniper o'clock, though.

    Timekeeping is an interesting concept. Psychologists once did an experiment, with a willing subject I hasten to add, who was confined to a deep cavern in which there was no natural light. He was surprised when they came back for him earlier than expected (after many weeks) because his body clock had shifted to a 25 hour day.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited September 2022
    BST all year round will be a right pain for European football matches if the rest of Europe doesn't stick to summer time all year round. Hello 21:00 kick offs. :disappointed:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    We need to have turbines that continue for a while with inertia for our windfarms, alongside ccgts that can stop gas input very quickly
  • The Daily Mail seems to like the sound of Truss's fiscal event.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11241019/Kwasi-Kwarteng-vows-new-era-Britain-unveils-package-measures-turbo-charge-growth.html

    Things are looking BRIGHTER! Chancellor to pledge a ‘new era for Britain’ in mini-Budget with biggest tax giveaway in 30 years to spark growth surge – and could even knock a penny off income tax and bring in year-round daylight savings

    You know what would REALLY make Britain BRIGHTER according to the Daily Mail?

    BARON Paul Dacre.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    DavidL said:

    Yes, it does appear that any referendum in Donetsk Oblast is going to be missing some voters to say the least.
    Voters? Where do they come into it?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    .
    ydoethur said:

    Re nuclear weapons, I hope Biden instead of panicking like everyone on here is asking the right question:

    Who do we offer $5 million to to NOT press the nuclear button if ordered to do so?

    The alternative is a cyber attack to destroy their systems, but the bribe is probably cheaper and more effective.

    Since the 1960s the Americans have had trans medium vehicles that use some form of exotic gravitational propulsion and make Putin’s hypersonic missiles look like slouches. The best bit of all is they can remotely deactivate nuclear weapons. So no need to worry.
  • Royalists: how dare you compare us to deranged religious cultists?


    To be fair to royalists, Charles Moore is on the nutty end of most spectrums. After all (rumour has it) it was he who persuaded Boris to go all in on protecting Owen Patterson (although that may turn out to have been a great service to the country given it was the turning point for BJ)
    It's clickbait for the sort of people who read the Spectator, innit?

    Nothing wrong with clickbait as a business model. More problematic when you expect some of your organ's other outputs to be taken seriously.
    Don’t think anyone has ever - even themselves - taken the spectator seriously.

    It’s well written and amusing but always acting as an agent provocateur to stimulate debate

  • DavidL said:

    At the moment, gas is producing 61% of our electricity. Nuclear 15%. Wind 5%

    Despite the very large number of wind turbines built over the last couple of decades. Wind is not the answer to our energy crisis (*), though it is part of the solution.

    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    (*) Even with energy storage.

    We are also importing nearly 10% of our energy through the interconnectors. And, of course, much of that gas is also imported.
    Exporting surely? Negative amounts from interconnectors again, that's really not helpful this year.
  • I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
  • DavidL said:

    Yes, it does appear that any referendum in Donetsk Oblast is going to be missing some voters to say the least.
    There were suggestions they would go door to door to make sure that everyone completed their ballot papers.

    Bit like postal voting in this country…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Yes, it does appear that any referendum in Donetsk Oblast is going to be missing some voters to say the least.
    Voters? Where do they come into it?
    The referendums, of course, lack any credibility outside Russia but even inside Russia the proposed referendums had been postponed because of the "security situation" on the ground where Ukraine controlled some of the Oblast concerned. That was until Thursday's U turn of course.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited September 2022

    I am fully behind year round daylight savings. It is nuts that this hasn't been done before.

    First Tory policy for a long time that has my full support.

    Feels like an issue which needs to be devolved. Sure, makes sense at southerly latitudes. But at northerly ones? Would literally kill people.
    Of course, there is nothing to stop Scotland effectively doing its own thing. Westminster doesn't say what time schools have to start, do they?
  • Royalists: how dare you compare us to deranged religious cultists?


    To be fair to royalists, Charles Moore is on the nutty end of most spectrums. After all (rumour has it) it was he who persuaded Boris to go all in on protecting Owen Patterson (although that may turn out to have been a great service to the country given it was the turning point for BJ)
    It's clickbait for the sort of people who read the Spectator, innit?

    Nothing wrong with clickbait as a business model. More problematic when you expect some of your organ's other outputs to be taken seriously.
    Exactly. These Canonise the Late Queen articles are silly. Which rather brings down the credibility of the Speccie when it posts @SeanT 's latest "WOKE ALIENS THREATEN YOUR GIRLS" article.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    Yes, it does appear that any referendum in Donetsk Oblast is going to be missing some voters to say the least.
    There were suggestions they would go door to door to make sure that everyone completed their ballot papers.

    Bit like postal voting in this country…
    Harder to do when those villages have been liberated. Likely to get your head blown off. Which didn't happen so much with farmed postal votes here.
This discussion has been closed.