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As world leaders gather the papers at the end of the era – politicalbetting.com

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  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    TOPPING said:

    It's very, very religious for a quite not religious country. All this shall be received into the grace and glory of the lord and entry into his kingdom, lord this, lord that, I mean I know it has to happen but I would have thought it won't do a huge amount to help the relevance of a modern monarchy.

    The queen was seriously religious

    This is her. This is why she was what she was

    Also: properly Protestant. The burghers of Belfast will be embonered
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    Eabhal said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    It's very, very religious for a quite not religious country. All this shall be received into the grace and glory of the lord and entry into his kingdom, lord this, lord that, I mean I know it has to happen but I would have thought it won't do a huge amount to help the relevance of a modern monarchy.

    At the end of the day this is Elizabeth II's funeral, and she was deeply Christian, by all accounts.

    The Coronation will be more interesting.
    That is fair. However I for one cannot relate to it at all - and therefore as a "national" closure event it feels a bit wanting.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    This is trough Welby: mogadon man on mogadon stuff.

    I enjoyed the two footed tackle on his fellow Etonian in the middle of it though. Very nicely done.
    I must have nodded off, how did that work?
    An attack on those who "cling to power" - maybe he had no one specific in mind but it certainly put a particular recent example of that in my mind.
    poor old Bojo. Even "In my father's house are many mansions" can be read as WHO'S GOT CHEQUERS NOW, PHATBOI?
  • darkage said:

    Farooq said:

    END THE MONARCHY

    I'm not a particularly enthusiastic monarchist, but would comment that this event is actually about the best argument that you could ever put forward to preserve the monarchy. The worlds leaders descending on London. It is the top news item on almost every global news channel. The SNP and Sinn Fein falling in to line. The decolonise everything crowd nowhere to be seen. The soft power this projects is immense and far outweighs the cost associated with the keeping the monarchy. In political terms it also reveals of the value of the preservation of order and tradition over the chaos of revolutions in the pursuit of rapid societal progress.
    Yes I completely agree with that
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    At least it is not a Catholic funeral, people are setting up to leave already. Catholics would have been there for another good hour. Never waste a good audience, as Paul undoubtedly said.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    ydoethur said:

    Your reminder this could have been Boris Johnson if the queen had died 72 hours earlier.

    Can you imagine him losing his place in the middle of the reading and waffling on about Peppa Pig instead?
    With his ill-fitting suit and scruffy hair.
    Was Boris a Putin plant put in place to undermine Britain? If so, fortunately he was found out just in time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's very, very religious for a quite not religious country. All this shall be received into the grace and glory of the lord and entry into his kingdom, lord this, lord that, I mean I know it has to happen but I would have thought it won't do a huge amount to help the relevance of a modern monarchy.

    The queen was seriously religious

    This is her. This is why she was what she was

    Also: properly Protestant. The burghers of Belfast will be embonered
    A Catholic priest said a prayer in it!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited September 2022
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    END THE MONARCHY

    Can we have the coronation first at least, just so we can say we saw one?
    Should we also have a communist dictatorship first, just so we can say we had seen one of those, too? My vote is no, no thanks.
    Yes, an extravagant one off ceremony is totally the same thing as a dictatorship, I can see that now.
    Your FOMO is making you read things that aren't there.
    A coronation is stupid. You don't need to see one to know that.
    And perhaps you need to lighten up (and as you've done so before, don't pretend that is being told you cannot say something so you can play a martyr) and not take what was already clearly a joke so seriously. I would not mind if we forwent coronations, we have other ceremonials.
    Oh, so you're trying to stop me playing the martyr? I thought we had free speech in this country. I'll just gag myself and stand on this pile of wood, feel free to apply the flame at your leisure.
    You've just demonstrated my exact point, Farooq!

    I like you, but I have not once said you should not say exactly what you like, yet you keep pretending I have. You seem to want to be told you cannot say what you like, and in the absence of that you are inventing it happening. That's why it is playing the martyr and not being a martyr - because it is in your head only.

    Do not gag yourself, I cannot be clearer than that. Personally I enjoy people being deliberately provocative like good old Dynamo for example. It breaks up the mawkishness. I've made mocking jokes about things myself, and I've been watching episodes of American Dad through the services.

    What I am saying is do not pretend you are being gagged when you clearly are not.

    Not because you cannot say what you like. But because claiming black is white is stupid.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    SeanT said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Your reminder this could have been Boris Johnson if the queen had died 72 hours earlier.

    Can you imagine him losing his place in the middle of the reading and waffling on about Peppa Pig instead?
    All too easily.

    On a different subject, the wreath is a very beautiful piece of work and tastefully done. Respect to everyone involved.
    It is absolutely glorious isn't it.

    It’s all glorious. This is why you have funerals. And, ideally, why you have beautiful funerals in Gothic abbeys with fluting English choirs: the beauty heals

    Remarkable how many of the people in high authority are now women. Such a change over the course of Her Majesty's reign.
    Although there is only one living queen regnant.
    Why are the organists the sub organist and assistant organist? is head organist an honorary role held by Prince Andrew or someone?
  • Some much more balanced and sensible posts coming through now, PB has shown its good side once again. Phew.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    SeanT said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Your reminder this could have been Boris Johnson if the queen had died 72 hours earlier.

    Can you imagine him losing his place in the middle of the reading and waffling on about Peppa Pig instead?
    All too easily.

    On a different subject, the wreath is a very beautiful piece of work and tastefully done. Respect to everyone involved.
    It is absolutely glorious isn't it.

    It’s all glorious. This is why you have funerals. And, ideally, why you have beautiful funerals in Gothic abbeys with fluting English choirs: the beauty heals

    Remarkable how many of the people in high authority are now women. Such a change over the course of Her Majesty's reign.
    Although there is only one living queen regnant.
    Why are the organists the sub organist and assistant organist? is head organist an honorary role held by Prince Andrew or someone?
    The organist is the man conducting the choir, who may be called the Director of Music in more modern parlance. The assistant organist is his deputy and the sub organist is an assistant to him because it's rather a lot of work.

    In case you are asking why it works that way, it's to do with the endowments that pay the salaries. Traditionally there would be no conductor and the person in charge of the choir would play the organ. That is still the way in many, perhaps most parish churches that have choirs. And so money left to pay for him (usually) would be left 'to pay the salary of the organist.'

    But today, generally, the role of the DM is to conduct the singing so somebody else plays the organ.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    SeanT said:

    This is when we need a bit of Boris. Leaven the liturgy with a joke

    We really don't. And HMQ knew that too.
  • If a video or audio recording is leaked of any of the Royal Family calling Johnson a prat I'll become a full fledged Royalist.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    If I had to imagine the spiritual opposite of an episode of Love Island, it would be this

    The whole thing is a big: F You, Atheists

    Also: Catholics, meh
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,153
    edited September 2022
    Virtually all European and US channels are covering this, indeed. Note both.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    ydoethur said:

    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's very, very religious for a quite not religious country. All this shall be received into the grace and glory of the lord and entry into his kingdom, lord this, lord that, I mean I know it has to happen but I would have thought it won't do a huge amount to help the relevance of a modern monarchy.

    The queen was seriously religious

    This is her. This is why she was what she was

    Also: properly Protestant. The burghers of Belfast will be embonered
    A Catholic priest said a prayer in it!
    The first protestant preachers were originally Catholic, so what could be more protestant than that?
  • DavidL said:

    At least it is not a Catholic funeral, people are setting up to leave already. Catholics would have been there for another good hour. Never waste a good audience, as Paul undoubtedly said.

    As a child one of the Ministers was notorious for droning on, such that if he got much beyond the allotted hour people would start filing out…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited September 2022
    SeanT said:

    If I had to imagine the spiritual opposite of an episode of Love Island, it would be this

    The whole thing is a big: F You, Atheists

    I don't take it personally.

    I believe some atheists try for a church without god kind of event, but it isn't really the same.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    This sublime music is bringing me close to tears. Or it might be the English fizz

    The Queen is departing the world: with predictably impeccable taste

    Hello. You must be new here. Welcome.
    I have come amongst you; but verily, I shall not tarry
    Ah go on. Do. You'll have fun here.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's very, very religious for a quite not religious country. All this shall be received into the grace and glory of the lord and entry into his kingdom, lord this, lord that, I mean I know it has to happen but I would have thought it won't do a huge amount to help the relevance of a modern monarchy.

    The queen was seriously religious

    This is her. This is why she was what she was

    Also: properly Protestant. The burghers of Belfast will be embonered
    That coupled with being Defender of the Faith, Supreme governor of the Church of England as well, so it was always going to be deeply religious.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Entirely possible/probable more people are watching or will watch this worldwide today than were alive when QE2 ascended the Throne
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Jonathan said:

    Is the airspace over London closed today? The security implications of today are mind boggling.

    Just looked - there is a NOTAM closing off airspace for the funeral. Plus another one warning that GPS jamming may be in use in the same area, so UAVs will have issues.
    GPS jamming? So if you opened Google Maps it wouldn't know where you are?

    How does that work, isn't your phone looking for a satellite in the sky? Fascinating.
    Hope it's ok with Big G if I answer this...

    They (the USA) use BFEA on the satellites to degrade the L1 C/A signal but M-Code (the US military signal) uses a different modulation type and is unaffected. The only people with functioning GNSS in this scenario right now are using Galileo, GLONASS or US sanctioned M-Code receivers.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,665
    I think that is Harald of Norway wobbling a bit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited September 2022
    Farooq said:

    darkage said:

    Farooq said:

    END THE MONARCHY

    I'm not a particularly enthusiastic monarchist, but would comment that this event is actually about the best argument that you could ever put forward to preserve the monarchy. The worlds leaders descending on London. It is the top news item on almost every global news channel. The SNP and Sinn Fein falling in to line. The decolonise everything crowd nowhere to be seen. The soft power this projects is immense and far outweighs the cost associated with the keeping the monarchy. In political terms it also reveals of the value of the preservation of order and tradition over the chaos of revolutions in the pursuit of rapid societal progress.
    word soup
    In your terms your commentary on his comment is attempting to silence him (somehow, I've still not figured outhow). Why not just light the match yourself?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited September 2022
    Sky camerawork beats the shit out of BBC

    ETA actually it looks like its the same cameras, better curated by Sky
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”
  • Cookie said:

    Perfect funereal weather here. Grey and drizzly has suddenly given way to sparkly and bright. Hopefully something similar in Westminster this afternoon.

    Much the same here in Gloucestershire this morning, Cookie.

    We walked the dogs on Cleeve Hill and were surprised at the number of golfers playing. One imagines they had the respect to be using black balls.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    DavidL said:

    At least it is not a Catholic funeral, people are setting up to leave already. Catholics would have been there for another good hour. Never waste a good audience, as Paul undoubtedly said.

    As a child one of the Ministers was notorious for droning on, such that if he got much beyond the allotted hour people would start filing out…
    Yes, I remember sermons like that. If the taste of the second peppermint had worn off, he’d gone on too long.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    SeanT said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Your reminder this could have been Boris Johnson if the queen had died 72 hours earlier.

    Can you imagine him losing his place in the middle of the reading and waffling on about Peppa Pig instead?
    All too easily.

    On a different subject, the wreath is a very beautiful piece of work and tastefully done. Respect to everyone involved.
    It is absolutely glorious isn't it.

    It’s all glorious. This is why you have funerals. And, ideally, why you have beautiful funerals in Gothic abbeys with fluting English choirs: the beauty heals

    Remarkable how many of the people in high authority are now women. Such a change over the course of Her Majesty's reign.
    Although there is only one living queen regnant.
    Why are the organists the sub organist and assistant organist? is head organist an honorary role held by Prince Andrew or someone?
    The organist is the man conducting the choir, who may be called the Director of Music in more modern parlance. The assistant organist is his deputy and the sub organist is an assistant to him because it's rather a lot of work.

    In case you are asking why it works that way, it's to do with the endowments that pay the salaries. Traditionally there would be no conductor and the person in charge of the choir would play the organ. That is still the way in many, perhaps most parish churches that have choirs. And so money left to pay for him (usually) would be left 'to pay the salary of the organist.'

    But today, generally, the role of the DM is to
    conduct the singing so somebody else plays
    the organ.
    It was pretty much like that back in the 80s too when I was a chorister, but the organist does still get to play the organ while their deputy conducts, especially on special occasions.

    I usually only get to see choral music on telly once a year when carols from Kings is on, so this is a treat (to my ears they are better than recent outings of Kings College choir).

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    That's a good question: what does a modern Monarchy look like?

    Do other countries do it better? I am afraid I don't know

    The Saudi monarchy has all the money and power so they are obviously doing it better than Chas's motley band of inbred morons.
  • kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    darkage said:

    Farooq said:

    END THE MONARCHY

    I'm not a particularly enthusiastic monarchist, but would comment that this event is actually about the best argument that you could ever put forward to preserve the monarchy. The worlds leaders descending on London. It is the top news item on almost every global news channel. The SNP and Sinn Fein falling in to line. The decolonise everything crowd nowhere to be seen. The soft power this projects is immense and far outweighs the cost associated with the keeping the monarchy. In political terms it also reveals of the value of the preservation of order and tradition over the chaos of revolutions in the pursuit of rapid societal progress.
    word soup
    In your terms your commentary on his comment is attempting to silence him (somehow, I've still not figured outhow). Why not just light the match yourself?
    Yeah Farooq is talking nonsense. Actually darkage put my feelings towards this whole thing quite well. I think it's ridiculous, way over the top, there are far more important issues around but nonetheless I cannot deny the impact it has on so many. If they're willing to let me speak which they mostly are, I can only afford the same right to those on the other side.
  • 2 minute silence observed impeccably aboard my Pendolino soon after leaving MK.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is the airspace over London closed today? The security implications of today are mind boggling.

    Just looked - there is a NOTAM closing off airspace for the funeral. Plus another one warning that GPS jamming may be in use in the same area, so UAVs will have issues.
    GPS jamming? So if you opened Google Maps it wouldn't know where you are?

    How does that work, isn't your phone looking for a satellite in the sky? Fascinating.
    Hope it's ok with Big G if I answer this...

    They (the USA) use BFEA on the satellites to degrade the L1 C/A signal but M-Code (the US military signal) uses a different modulation type and is unaffected. The only people with functioning GNSS in this scenario right now are using Galileo, GLONASS or US sanctioned M-Code receivers.
    My iPhone would work then, it uses Galileo and GLONASS
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Orb thingy on the wreath crying out for a Guy Ritchie heist movie
  • DavidL said:

    At least it is not a Catholic funeral, people are setting up to leave already. Catholics would have been there for another good hour. Never waste a good audience, as Paul undoubtedly said.

    It's only part of a funeral. There's two further episodes due in Windsor later.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    2 minute silence observed impeccably aboard my Pendolino soon after leaving MK.

    has it started?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is the airspace over London closed today? The security implications of today are mind boggling.

    Just looked - there is a NOTAM closing off airspace for the funeral. Plus another one warning that GPS jamming may be in use in the same area, so UAVs will have issues.
    GPS jamming? So if you opened Google Maps it wouldn't know where you are?

    How does that work, isn't your phone looking for a satellite in the sky? Fascinating.
    Hope it's ok with Big G if I answer this...

    They (the USA) use BFEA on the satellites to degrade the L1 C/A signal but M-Code (the US military signal) uses a different modulation type and is unaffected. The only people with functioning GNSS in this scenario right now are using Galileo, GLONASS or US sanctioned M-Code receivers.
    My iPhone would work then, it uses Galileo and GLONASS
    Not if the jamming of the frequencies used is local.
  • Charles is a disgrace.

    He didn’t sing the national anthem.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    The trumpets! The trumpets!
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    YES!!!
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    Hahahahahaha
  • RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is the airspace over London closed today? The security implications of today are mind boggling.

    Just looked - there is a NOTAM closing off airspace for the funeral. Plus another one warning that GPS jamming may be in use in the same area, so UAVs will have issues.
    GPS jamming? So if you opened Google Maps it wouldn't know where you are?

    How does that work, isn't your phone looking for a satellite in the sky? Fascinating.
    Hope it's ok with Big G if I answer this...

    They (the USA) use BFEA on the satellites to degrade the L1 C/A signal but M-Code (the US military signal) uses a different modulation type and is unaffected. The only people with functioning GNSS in this scenario right now are using Galileo, GLONASS or US sanctioned M-Code receivers.
    My iPhone would work then, it uses Galileo and GLONASS
    Not if the jamming of the frequencies used is local.
    Thought the point being made was that it's not, if it is then clearly yes makes sense. Thanks for the insight.

    My new iPhone is supposed to have much better GPS reception than previous, I will see next week, I am sure nobody cares :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Charles is a disgrace.

    He didn’t sing the national anthem.

    Do we have a shot of Biden, by any chance?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    Bit of a mumble by the congregation there. A lack of unanimity about whether God should save the queen or king.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    edited September 2022

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is the airspace over London closed today? The security implications of today are mind boggling.

    Just looked - there is a NOTAM closing off airspace for the funeral. Plus another one warning that GPS jamming may be in use in the same area, so UAVs will have issues.
    GPS jamming? So if you opened Google Maps it wouldn't know where you are?

    How does that work, isn't your phone looking for a satellite in the sky? Fascinating.
    Hope it's ok with Big G if I answer this...

    They (the USA) use BFEA on the satellites to degrade the L1 C/A signal but M-Code (the US military signal) uses a different modulation type and is unaffected. The only people with functioning GNSS in this scenario right now are using Galileo, GLONASS or US sanctioned M-Code receivers.
    My iPhone would work then, it uses Galileo and GLONASS
    Not if the jamming of the frequencies used is local.
    Thought the point being made was that it's not, if it is then clearly yes makes sense. Thanks for the insight.

    My new iPhone is supposed to have much better GPS reception than previous, I will see next week, I am sure nobody cares :)
    There were several posts before this saying it could either be the satellite signal degraded, or the radio frequencies jammed locally. The latter seems much more likely.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    TOTAL SOFT POWER
  • IshmaelZ said:

    2 minute silence observed impeccably aboard my Pendolino soon after leaving MK.

    has it started?
    Was 11.55 according to the train crew announcer lady.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    SeanT said:

    TOTAL SOFT POWER

    You don't sound very soft
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is the airspace over London closed today? The security implications of today are mind boggling.

    Just looked - there is a NOTAM closing off airspace for the funeral. Plus another one warning that GPS jamming may be in use in the same area, so UAVs will have issues.
    GPS jamming? So if you opened Google Maps it wouldn't know where you are?

    How does that work, isn't your phone looking for a satellite in the sky? Fascinating.
    Hope it's ok with Big G if I answer this...

    They (the USA) use BFEA on the satellites to degrade the L1 C/A signal but M-Code (the US military signal) uses a different modulation type and is unaffected. The only people with functioning GNSS in this scenario right now are using Galileo, GLONASS or US sanctioned M-Code receivers.
    My iPhone would work then, it uses Galileo and GLONASS
    Not if the jamming of the frequencies used is local.
    Thought the point being made was that it's not, if it is then clearly yes makes sense. Thanks for the insight.

    My new iPhone is supposed to have much better GPS reception than previous, I will see next week, I am sure nobody cares :)
    There were several posts before this saying it could either be the satellite signal degraded, or the radio frequencies jammed locally. The latter seems much more likely.
    Yes saw those, seems reasonable and I now understand a lot more than I did, thanks folks
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Well, I would. But then I'm an ordinary person, and it's not an anthem that obliges the singer to eulogise their love for anyone or even any country in particular.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    In short, no. Unless you want to
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,989
    edited September 2022
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Yes, to show respect.

    EDIT: Unless you don't know the words of course.
  • Charles is a disgrace.

    He didn’t sing the national anthem.

    How dare you, you'll have Big G on you next
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    Amusingly my neighbour has taken the opportunity to do some serious strimming.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Just had some dude at the door looking to drum up work for driveway cleaning and sealing. At least some people are working.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Be more fun if they were whistling along to "Always look on the bright side of life"...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    SeanT said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Your reminder this could have been Boris Johnson if the queen had died 72 hours earlier.

    Can you imagine him losing his place in the middle of the reading and waffling on about Peppa Pig instead?
    All too easily.

    On a different subject, the wreath is a very beautiful piece of work and tastefully done. Respect to everyone involved.
    It is absolutely glorious isn't it.

    It’s all glorious. This is why you have funerals. And, ideally, why you have beautiful funerals in Gothic abbeys with fluting English choirs: the beauty heals

    Remarkable how many of the people in high authority are now women. Such a change over the course of Her Majesty's reign.
    Although there is only one living queen regnant.
    Why are the organists the sub organist and assistant organist? is head organist an honorary role held by Prince Andrew or someone?
    The organist is the man conducting the choir, who may be called the Director of Music in more modern parlance. The assistant organist is his deputy and the sub organist is an assistant to him because it's rather a lot of work.

    In case you are asking why it works that way, it's to do with the endowments that pay the salaries. Traditionally there would be no conductor and the person in charge of the choir would play the organ. That is still the way in many, perhaps most parish churches that have choirs. And so money left to pay for him (usually) would be left 'to pay the salary of the organist.'

    But today, generally, the role of the DM is to conduct the singing so somebody else plays the organ.
    Thank you, most informative
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Cookie said:

    Bit of a mumble by the congregation there. A lack of unanimity about whether God should save the queen or king.

    I genuinely find it sounds very similar to me, as if my brain is mentally confused by the change in ritual.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    The late Queen got the President of the USA, the chancellor of Germany, the president of France, and the Emperor of Japan: to sing God Save the King in Westminster Abbey, in London, in England

    What is soft power, if not that?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    2 minutes silence RUINED by the baby in the downstairs flat. Disgraceful scenes
  • My HelloFresh was delivered this morning, poor bloke I wish they'd given them the day off
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    God Save the King is going to take some getting used to.

    You've probably got at least 60 years to get the hang of it.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Watching as the trumpets play and the organ chimes in, and then the bagpipes start sounding I’m struck by how exotic Britain is.

    It’s easy to imagine yourself a foreign viewer today wondering at the sheer differentness of this country and its national rituals.

    Good for the tourism industry.
  • Amusingly my neighbour has taken the opportunity to do some serious strimming.

    Washing machine going in the flat above during the 2 mins silence. Also quite a few cars going by.
  • ydoethur said:

    Charles is a disgrace.

    He didn’t sing the national anthem.

    Do we have a shot of Biden, by any chance?
    I saw several foreign dignitaries not singing it - if the King is not your head of state, why would you? And some former colonies might see it as treasonous.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Dura_Ace said:

    That's a good question: what does a modern Monarchy look like?

    Do other countries do it better? I am afraid I don't know

    The Saudi monarchy has all the money and power so they are obviously doing it better than Chas's motley band of inbred morons.
    The Thai monarchy is pretty darn wealthy apparently. By proportion of population Licentenstein probably takes the wealthy crown though.

    Our crown cannot even rustle up a billion dollars between them.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Yes, to show respect.

    EDIT: Unless you don't know the words of course.
    No, thats why footballers etc don't sing each others anthems.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    ydoethur said:

    Charles is a disgrace.

    He didn’t sing the national anthem.

    Do we have a shot of Biden, by any chance?
    I saw several foreign dignitaries not singing it - if the King is not your head of state, why would you? And some former colonies might see it as treasonous.
    Yet earlier they showed Macron many times. Might be because he was fairly early so there were not as many recognizable leaders to show.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    DavidL said:

    God Save the King is going to take some getting used to.

    You've probably got at least 60 years to get the hang of it.
    That being so, I'll get a telegram from the King 20 years on the trot too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Yes, to show respect.

    EDIT: Unless you don't know the words of course.
    There is also actually a very good reason not to sing the American national anthem - it's actually bloody difficult to sing. Lots of high notes and complicated jumps.

    That's why it's usually sung by a soloist while everyone listens.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    Is it just me, or was that not as sombre and dark as this might have been. I found that positive and light compared to the black and white films of past state funerals.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is the airspace over London closed today? The security implications of today are mind boggling.

    Just looked - there is a NOTAM closing off airspace for the funeral. Plus another one warning that GPS jamming may be in use in the same area, so UAVs will have issues.
    GPS jamming? So if you opened Google Maps it wouldn't know where you are?

    How does that work, isn't your phone looking for a satellite in the sky? Fascinating.
    Hope it's ok with Big G if I answer this...

    They (the USA) use BFEA on the satellites to degrade the L1 C/A signal but M-Code (the US military signal) uses a different modulation type and is unaffected. The only people with functioning GNSS in this scenario right now are using Galileo, GLONASS or US sanctioned M-Code receivers.
    My iPhone would work then, it uses Galileo and GLONASS
    They (the USA) can suppress those with localised pseudolites if they are that arsed.
  • Ah the planes started flying overhead again in SW London
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,153
    edited September 2022
    Jonathan said:

    Is it just me, or was that not as sombre and dark as this might have been. I found that positive and light compared to the black and white films of past state funerals.

    Maybe because they were all in black and white.

    But you may be also be right , considering the general choice of singing and hymns.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,989
    edited September 2022

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Yes, to show respect.

    EDIT: Unless you don't know the words of course.
    No, thats why footballers etc don't sing each others anthems.

    That's a bit different when they're on stage like that, as opposed to being in a congregation.

    When I was a kid at school in Australia I used to sing Advanced Australia Fair when it was done during school services, despite being the POME Bastard of the class. I was taught by my dad, and I agree, that its a matter of showing respect. Like taking your shoes off if someone asks you to do so.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    The Funeral of Prince Andrew, after this, is going to be like Police Academy 5
  • SeanT said:

    The Funeral of Prince Andrew, after this, is going to be like Police Academy 5

    He doesn't deserve a funeral, it's sickening he's been given any praise or publicity during this whole thing.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,665
    Jonathan said:

    Is it just me, or was that not as sombre and dark as this might have been. I found that positive and light compared to the black and white films of past state funerals.

    Because it's a beautiful day? (It is here). I feel like people should only die in the winter for some reason.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited September 2022
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Yes, to show respect.

    EDIT: Unless you don't know the words of course.
    There is also actually a very good reason not to sing the American national anthem - it's actually bloody difficult to sing. Lots of high notes and complicated jumps.

    That's why it's usually sung by a soloist while everyone listens.
    Like the Marseillaise, great tune but hard to sing, though not as hard as the Italian one. German anthem is pretty easy and in a nice middle register most of the time.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    TimS said:

    Watching as the trumpets play and the organ chimes in, and then the bagpipes start sounding I’m struck by how exotic Britain is.

    It’s easy to imagine yourself a foreign viewer today wondering at the sheer differentness of this country and its national rituals.

    Good for the tourism industry.

    The true flavour of Britain is in its wacky local traditions, recent or historical. Take a foreign visitor to the cheese rolling I say.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Jonathan said:

    Is it just me, or was that not as sombre and dark as this might have been. I found that positive and light compared to the black and white films of past state funerals.

    It isn't just you. It was a moving service in many ways, but I didn't find it mournful. That may of course be because of her age. Yes, we will miss her, but as I said at the time I think given the choice she would have chosen the way her life ended and she was 96. Being too sombre would be a bit jarring.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Fergal Keane is excellent
  • Amusingly my neighbour has taken the opportunity to do some serious strimming.

    Washing machine going in the flat above during the 2 mins silence. Also quite a few cars going by.
    Where do you live - Moscow?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Yes, to show respect.

    EDIT: Unless you don't know the words of course.
    There is also actually a very good reason not to sing the American national anthem - it's actually bloody difficult to sing. Lots of high notes and complicated jumps.

    That's why it's usually sung by a soloist while everyone listens.
    Like the Marseillaise, great tune but hard to sing, though not as hard as the Italian one. German anthem is pretty easy and in a nice middle register most of the time.

    For all that GSTK is not a great tune, its pacing and simplicity make it pretty easy to belt out drunkenly in semi-unison, as compared to more exciting ones.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    God Save the King is going to take some getting used to.

    You've probably got at least 60 years to get the hang of it.
    That being so, I'll get a telegram from the King 20 years on the trot too.
    And your annuity provider will be in tears.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Yes, to show respect.

    EDIT: Unless you don't know the words of course.
    There is also actually a very good reason not to sing the American national anthem - it's actually bloody difficult to sing. Lots of high notes and complicated jumps.

    That's why it's usually sung by a soloist while everyone listens.
    Like the Marseillaise, great tune but hard to sing, though not as hard as the Italian one. German anthem is pretty easy and in a nice middle register most of the time.

    The hardest one I've ever sung is the Argentine national anthem. That's musically demanding and fiendishly complicated in terms of multiple movements.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited September 2022

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Yes, to show respect.

    EDIT: Unless you don't know the words of course.
    No, thats why footballers etc don't sing each others anthems.

    That's a bit different when they're on stage like that, as opposed to being in a congregation.

    When I was a kid at school in Australia I used to sing Advanced Australia Fare when it was done during school services, despite being the POME Bastard of the class. I was taught by my dad, and I agree, that its a matter of showing respect. Like taking your shoes off if someone asks you to do so.
    Im of the opinion you stand in respect, not sing. Australia, as a Commonwealth realm is a bit different imo
    I would never sing The Star Spangled Banner or the Marseillaise but I'd stand whilst Americans and French did
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    The sun's come out for them.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    Michael Martin: BOW YOUR HEAD, you Fenian devil
  • Bearer party: slow march.
  • Amusingly my neighbour has taken the opportunity to do some serious strimming.

    Washing machine going in the flat above during the 2 mins silence. Also quite a few cars going by.
    Where do you live - Moscow?
    Close: Acton
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I REALLY want to see Biden and Macron sing “God Save the King”

    Honestly not sure of the etiquette of singing someone else's anthem. Obviously Heads of State and government probably shouldn't, but if you are in a crowd somewhere singing Star Spangled Banner should you join in?
    Yes, to show respect.

    EDIT: Unless you don't know the words of course.
    There is also actually a very good reason not to sing the American national anthem - it's actually bloody difficult to sing. Lots of high notes and complicated jumps.

    That's why it's usually sung by a soloist while everyone listens.
    Like the Marseillaise, great tune but hard to sing, though not as hard as the Italian one. German anthem is pretty easy and in a nice middle register most of the time.

    The Spanish national anthem makes it rather easy on people.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Watching as the trumpets play and the organ chimes in, and then the bagpipes start sounding I’m struck by how exotic Britain is.

    It’s easy to imagine yourself a foreign viewer today wondering at the sheer differentness of this country and its national rituals.

    Good for the tourism industry.

    The true flavour of Britain is in its wacky local traditions, recent or historical. Take a foreign visitor to the cheese rolling I say.
    I remember a French colleague talking about how exotic England seemed when they first visited on a school exchange. The driving on the left, the road signs, the pubs, the weird food, the leafy suburbs with their houses that look vaguely Flemish but yet different.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    SeanT said:

    The Funeral of Prince Andrew, after this, is going to be like Police Academy 5

    He doesn't deserve a funeral, it's sickening he's been given any praise or publicity during this whole thing.
    Publicity yes, praise no. His tribute to HMQ gives us a new pretext to loathe, despise and ridicule him.

    "Mummy"

    Thanks for the £12m.

    https://news.sky.com/story/duke-of-york-pays-tribute-to-the-queen-12700540
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    And now the sun is out. Perfect
This discussion has been closed.