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The first post leadership polling not good for Truss – politicalbetting.com

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  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,571
    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Just a little snap shot of the knots lefties will tie themselves up in when Kemi is LOTO and dreary old Starmer is PM.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    Andy_JS said:

    "TOMORROW 7.30am
    Boris Johnson to deliver a farewell address outside No10. He will then go to Balmoral in Scotland to ask the Queen to accept his resignation.

    11.20am
    Mr Johnson arrives at Balmoral for his audience with the monarch.

    12.10pm
    Mr Johnson departs and Ms Truss, having travelled to Scotland separately, will be welcomed by the Queen and asked to form a new government.

    12.40pm
    Ms Truss heads back to London.

    4pm
    The new PM arrives at No10 to address the nation for the first time. She will make the last Cabinet appointments and have meetings for updates on matters of national security."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11181285/Liz-Truss-PM-winning-Tory-leader-contest.html

    Why can't Truss save 3 hours and address the nation from Scotland? It's not a requirement to make statements in front of the No.10 front door.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,816
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Congratulations to Liz Truss on her election. The British people are our friends, the British nation is our ally. Let us continue working together to defend our shared intere
    https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1566858800656797697?s=20&t=GrpkLEjDZe6gEJWDiYe-bw

    Funnily enough today is the 241st Anniversary of the Battle in which the French probably guaranteed American Independence:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Chesapeake
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,571
    Andy_JS said:

    "TOMORROW 7.30am
    Boris Johnson to deliver a farewell address outside No10. He will then go to Balmoral in Scotland to ask the Queen to accept his resignation.

    11.20am
    Mr Johnson arrives at Balmoral for his audience with the monarch.

    12.10pm
    Mr Johnson departs and Ms Truss, having travelled to Scotland separately, will be welcomed by the Queen and asked to form a new government.

    12.40pm
    Ms Truss heads back to London.

    4pm
    The new PM arrives at No10 to address the nation for the first time. She will make the last Cabinet appointments and have meetings for updates on matters of national security."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11181285/Liz-Truss-PM-winning-Tory-leader-contest.html

    And of course in all this travelling about neither of them will face any delays unlike the rest of the riff raff lol.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "TOMORROW 7.30am
    Boris Johnson to deliver a farewell address outside No10. He will then go to Balmoral in Scotland to ask the Queen to accept his resignation.

    11.20am
    Mr Johnson arrives at Balmoral for his audience with the monarch.

    12.10pm
    Mr Johnson departs and Ms Truss, having travelled to Scotland separately, will be welcomed by the Queen and asked to form a new government.

    12.40pm
    Ms Truss heads back to London.

    4pm
    The new PM arrives at No10 to address the nation for the first time. She will make the last Cabinet appointments and have meetings for updates on matters of national security."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11181285/Liz-Truss-PM-winning-Tory-leader-contest.html

    Oh good, we’ve got his farewell moment out of the way nice and early. I might even still be in bed.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Liz Truss was elected Tory leader. We’ve had worse days.
    True

    But I hope you’re suitably ashamed of the suspiciously convenient spectacle that is @foxy and @kinabalu tonight

    I’m in a generous mood so I’ll put it down to lightning and wine
  • Nigelb said:

    Good thread on the Trump decision.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1566835323417645056
    I kept an open mind. I really did. But reading Judge Cannon’s ruling left my jaw on the floor in its absurdity. Unless the federalist society wants to argue that this precedent would only apply to Trump, this ruling would demolish future white collar criminal investigations…

    It's a District Court decision so, whether it's right or wrong, it doesn't actually set a legal precedent as it's essentially lowest rung. You only get into precedents from higher courts (circuit appeals courts and the Supreme Court) not from the same level.

    This error was made over the Colston statue acquittal. You can argue it was wrong, but people saying it set a poor precedent don't understand precedent. It didn't set a legal precedent at all.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,932
    edited September 2022
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Liz Truss was elected Tory leader. We’ve had worse days.
    True

    But I hope you’re suitably ashamed of the suspiciously convenient spectacle that is @foxy and @kinabalu tonight

    I’m in a generous mood so I’ll put it down to lightning and wine
    If she is ever elected Tory leader, Badenoch will be defeated because of what she thinks, says and does. The nearest the Tories have to Corbyn right now. A enthusiastically divisive politician.

    But let’s not carried away by talk of failing Tory opposition leaders, we have two years of Truss to endure and enjoy first.
  • Leon said:

    The PB Left - and on the Guardian, and beyond - would be FAR better off if they just celebrated this evidence of racial progress in Britain, and then moved swiftly on

    Anything else looks disturbingly and bizarrely churlish, and also partisan to an odd degree. Tsk. Basic fail

    Don't think the PB Left whomsoever they may be cares overly about what you thinks would make them better off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Liz Truss was elected Tory leader. We’ve had worse days.
    True

    But I hope you’re suitably ashamed of the suspiciously convenient spectacle that is @foxy and @kinabalu tonight

    I’m in a generous mood so I’ll put it down to lightning and wine
    If she is ever elected Tory leader, Badenoch will be defeated because of what she thinks, says and does. The nearest the Tories have to Corbyn right now. A enthusiastically divisive politician.

    But let’s not carried away by talk of failing Tory opposition leaders, we have two years of Truss to endure and enjoy first.
    On that basis Truss is Gordon Brown/Ed Miliband to Badenoch's Corbyn, merely the appetiser to the main course Tory members really want
  • kinabalu said:

    My eldest son is 12 and tomorrow he will be onto his fifth PM of his lifetime.

    I was nearly 29 when I had my first five PMs in my lifetime.

    That's an interesting one. 16 for me.
    17 for me. Though on my third when I was 2.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Liz Truss was elected Tory leader. We’ve had worse days.
    True

    But I hope you’re suitably ashamed of the suspiciously convenient spectacle that is @foxy and @kinabalu tonight

    I’m in a generous mood so I’ll put it down to lightning and wine
    If she is ever electe Tory leader, Badenoch will be defeated because of what she thinks, says and does. The nearest the Tories have to Corbyn right now. A enthusiastically divisive politician.

    But let’s not carried away by talk of failing Tory opposition leaders, we have two years of Truss to endure and enjoy first.
    I’m not sure we know enough about Badenoch to dismiss her that easily. She’s young, engaging, clever and going places. She will learn

    She’s certainly not a crusty old traitor Marxist like Corbyn. An absurd comparison

    On Truss I am ambivalent. Earlier today I was in mild but amiable despair. Her terrible speech. But the confused reaction to her from the pb left actually gives me hope. Maybe she will flummox people and do ok. Mmm. We shall see

    And on that ecumenical note, good night PB. I have a coast to walk tomorrow
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    edited September 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    "TOMORROW 7.30am
    Boris Johnson to deliver a farewell address outside No10. He will then go to Balmoral in Scotland to ask the Queen to accept his resignation.

    11.20am
    Mr Johnson arrives at Balmoral for his audience with the monarch.

    12.10pm
    Mr Johnson departs and Ms Truss, having travelled to Scotland separately, will be welcomed by the Queen and asked to form a new government.

    12.40pm
    Ms Truss heads back to London.

    4pm
    The new PM arrives at No10 to address the nation for the first time. She will make the last Cabinet appointments and have meetings for updates on matters of national security."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11181285/Liz-Truss-PM-winning-Tory-leader-contest.html

    So it will take Boris almost 4 hours to travel to Balmoral, presumably giving him and his entourage a last opportunity for a huge piss up and gorgefest on the plane at taxpayers expense while he can
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Liz Truss was elected Tory leader. We’ve had worse days.
    True

    But I hope you’re suitably ashamed of the suspiciously convenient spectacle that is @foxy and @kinabalu tonight

    I’m in a generous mood so I’ll put it down to lightning and wine
    If she is ever electe Tory leader, Badenoch will be defeated because of what she thinks, says and does. The nearest the Tories have to Corbyn right now. A enthusiastically divisive politician.

    But let’s not carried away by talk of failing Tory opposition leaders, we have two years of Truss to endure and enjoy first.
    I’m not sure we know enough about Badenoch to dismiss her that easily. She’s young, engaging, clever and going places. She will learn

    She’s certainly not a crusty old traitor Marxist like Corbyn. An absurd comparison

    On Truss I am ambivalent. Earlier today I was in mild but amiable despair. Her terrible speech. But the confused reaction to her from the pb left actually gives me hope. Maybe she will flummox people and do ok. Mmm. We shall see

    And on that ecumenical note, good night PB. I have a coast to walk tomorrow
    Badenoch is 42. Liz Truss is 47.

    She's not that young (though youthful for Cabinet if she makes it), she's just far less experienced as an MP and at senior level, so was more unknown than others.

    Still, Sunak is only 42 as well and his senior career is effectively over already.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 1,059
    FWIW, a similar anecdote about the 1980 Senate election here in the US is widely accepted as true: The wife of one of the defeated Democratic senators is said to have complained about the voters who had tossed her husband out of office: "After all we've done for them."

    (The Republican winning of the Senate in 1980 was something of a surprise to almost everyone. Including the Republicans, who had not put up the strongest field of candidates. Which explains why many of them lost, narrowly, in 1986.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825
    edited September 2022
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    The PB Left - and on the Guardian, and beyond - would be FAR better off if they just celebrated this evidence of racial progress in Britain, and then moved swiftly on

    Anything else looks disturbingly and bizarrely churlish, and also partisan to an odd degree. Tsk. Basic fail

    Desperate stuff. The fact they are being criticised for their ideas and policies just goes to show how far some of us have travelled.

    You could always catching up instead of whingeing in the background.
    Kemi Badenoch told an anecdote about campaigning in her first General Election when she stood against Tessa Jowell, and she knocked on one lady's door who was indignant about a young black woman standing for the Tories "after everything we've done for you people".

    That’s a genius anecdote. We see the same attitude on here tonight. Paternalist lefty racism

    Biden does it all the time
    Yeah. I wonder if it is true.
    It's certainly very convenient! You couldn't craft one any better.
    Embellishment may well occur, but is it any more 'convenient' than anyone else recounting an experience of racism or discrimination which they raise to emphasise whatever point they are making?

    From before she was an MP there are clips of her mentioning other similar experiences, so either she's played a very long game or she's had such experiences.
    Who knows. Some anecdotes are true and some aren't.

    But this one does absolutely illustrate a right wing trope about the left. It's a precision bomb.
    Yes, suspiciously convenient.
    Another one. Someone chalk them up

    “Allegations of racism by right wing black politicians are always wrong and invented by evil uppity posh black people who don’t count as black people anyway how dare they ugh”
    No, I am sure she has been the butt of racism, but that anecdote seems suspicious.
    How? What about it makes you think it is made up?

    It could be, but what makes you think it is?
    I didn't say made up, but rather suspiciously convenient. I expect the tale has grown in the telling.

    She has embellished a number of other aspects of her life story. Not unique in a politician, indeed often a feature of ambition.

    Her father was a doctor who owned a hospital and established a publishing company. Her mother is a professor of physiology and cousin of Nigerias vice president. She was educated at the posh private International School in Lagos. She has a British passport because her mother arrived in 1980 to deliver her in a private maternity unit in London.

    She trades on the idea of being a burger flipping escapee from African poverty, but that is quite the exaggeration.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,682
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Liz Truss was elected Tory leader. We’ve had worse days.
    True

    But I hope you’re suitably ashamed of the suspiciously convenient spectacle that is @foxy and @kinabalu tonight

    I’m in a generous mood so I’ll put it down to lightning and wine
    If she is ever electe Tory leader, Badenoch will be defeated because of what she thinks, says and does. The nearest the Tories have to Corbyn right now. A enthusiastically divisive politician.

    But let’s not carried away by talk of failing Tory opposition leaders, we have two years of Truss to endure and enjoy first.
    I’m not sure we know enough about Badenoch to dismiss her that easily. She’s young, engaging, clever and going places. She will learn

    She’s certainly not a crusty old traitor Marxist like Corbyn. An absurd comparison

    On Truss I am ambivalent. Earlier today I was in mild but amiable despair. Her terrible speech. But the confused reaction to her from the pb left actually gives me hope. Maybe she will flummox people and do ok. Mmm. We shall see

    And on that ecumenical note, good night PB. I have a coast to walk tomorrow
    Badenoch is 42. Liz Truss is 47.

    She's not that young (though youthful for Cabinet if she makes it), she's just far less experienced as an MP and at senior level, so was more unknown than others.

    Still, Sunak is only 42 as well and his senior career is effectively over already.
    Yet here in the US, voters are happy to have their politics in the hands of geriatrics that wouldn’t be considered eligible, on grounds of old age, by most British voters.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    The PB Left - and on the Guardian, and beyond - would be FAR better off if they just celebrated this evidence of racial progress in Britain, and then moved swiftly on

    Anything else looks disturbingly and bizarrely churlish, and also partisan to an odd degree. Tsk. Basic fail

    Desperate stuff. The fact they are being criticised for their ideas and policies just goes to show how far some of us have travelled.

    You could always catching up instead of whingeing in the background.
    Kemi Badenoch told an anecdote about campaigning in her first General Election when she stood against Tessa Jowell, and she knocked on one lady's door who was indignant about a young black woman standing for the Tories "after everything we've done for you people".

    That’s a genius anecdote. We see the same attitude on here tonight. Paternalist lefty racism

    Biden does it all the time
    Yeah. I wonder if it is true.
    It's certainly very convenient! You couldn't craft one any better.
    Embellishment may well occur, but is it any more 'convenient' than anyone else recounting an experience of racism or discrimination which they raise to emphasise whatever point they are making?

    From before she was an MP there are clips of her mentioning other similar experiences, so either she's played a very long game or she's had such experiences.
    Who knows. Some anecdotes are true and some aren't.

    But this one does absolutely illustrate a right wing trope about the left. It's a precision bomb.
    Yes, suspiciously convenient.
    Another one. Someone chalk them up

    “Allegations of racism by right wing black politicians are always wrong and invented by evil uppity posh black people who don’t count as black people anyway how dare they ugh”
    No, I am sure she has been the butt of racism, but that anecdote seems suspicious.
    How? What about it makes you think it is made up?

    It could be, but what makes you think it is?
    Well, she has embellished a number of other aspects of her life story. Not unique in a politician, indeed often a feature of ambition.

    Her father was a doctor who owned a hospital and established a publishing company. Her mother is a professor of physiology and cousin of Nigerias vice president. She was educated at the posh private International School in Lagos. She has a British passport because her mother arrived in 1980 to deliver her in a private maternity unit in London.

    She trades on the idea of being a burger flipping escapee from African poverty, but that is quite the exaggeration.
    So basically all anecdotes are suspiciously convenient.

    But if she has form for being a liar I'd have led with that rather than simpler avering that it was suspicious without stating why. The convenience of an anecdote doesn't speak to its truthfulness, but a history of making things up would undermine it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825
    edited September 2022
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    The PB Left - and on the Guardian, and beyond - would be FAR better off if they just celebrated this evidence of racial progress in Britain, and then moved swiftly on

    Anything else looks disturbingly and bizarrely churlish, and also partisan to an odd degree. Tsk. Basic fail

    Desperate stuff. The fact they are being criticised for their ideas and policies just goes to show how far some of us have travelled.

    You could always catching up instead of whingeing in the background.
    Kemi Badenoch told an anecdote about campaigning in her first General Election when she stood against Tessa Jowell, and she knocked on one lady's door who was indignant about a young black woman standing for the Tories "after everything we've done for you people".

    That’s a genius anecdote. We see the same attitude on here tonight. Paternalist lefty racism

    Biden does it all the time
    Yeah. I wonder if it is true.
    It's certainly very convenient! You couldn't craft one any better.
    Embellishment may well occur, but is it any more 'convenient' than anyone else recounting an experience of racism or discrimination which they raise to emphasise whatever point they are making?

    From before she was an MP there are clips of her mentioning other similar experiences, so either she's played a very long game or she's had such experiences.
    Who knows. Some anecdotes are true and some aren't.

    But this one does absolutely illustrate a right wing trope about the left. It's a precision bomb.
    Yes, suspiciously convenient.
    Another one. Someone chalk them up

    “Allegations of racism by right wing black politicians are always wrong and invented by evil uppity posh black people who don’t count as black people anyway how dare they ugh”
    No, I am sure she has been the butt of racism, but that anecdote seems suspicious.
    How? What about it makes you think it is made up?

    It could be, but what makes you think it is?
    Well, she has embellished a number of other aspects of her life story. Not unique in a politician, indeed often a feature of ambition.

    Her father was a doctor who owned a hospital and established a publishing company. Her mother is a professor of physiology and cousin of Nigerias vice president. She was educated at the posh private International School in Lagos. She has a British passport because her mother arrived in 1980 to deliver her in a private maternity unit in London.

    She trades on the idea of being a burger flipping escapee from African poverty, but that is quite the exaggeration.
    So basically all anecdotes are suspiciously convenient.

    But if she has form for being a liar I'd have led with that rather than simpler avering that it was suspicious without stating why. The convenience of an anecdote doesn't speak to its truthfulness, but a history of making things up would undermine it.
    Oh certainly so. I think pretty much all politicians selectively edit their biographies to spin themselves as strugglers against the odds, and prolier than thou.

    It is part of modern identity politics. Badenoch does it as much as anyone, relying on the lazy assumption that all African migrants come from a background of deprivation.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,459
    edited September 2022
    There's an interesting extent to which the makeup of the new government could be read as Cameron's revenge.

    As I remember, Cameron went to huge lengths to open up the Tory selection process to different kinds of candidates, and change the make-up of the party.

    Whatever else it was, a lot of the Tory-Brexit vote in 2019 wasn't a vote for a more diverse Britain, but partly the result of a Crosby-style campaign that owed more than a little to white identity politics.

    Now along comes a parliamentary party that Cameron changed substantially to create the impression of something rather different, like it o not.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    HYUFD said:
    Which cost more to hire - the Heil's "body language expert" who does such a savage job on Meghan, or the 100-strong loony royalist crowd?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093
    ...
    kinabalu said:

    My eldest son is 12 and tomorrow he will be onto his fifth PM of his lifetime.

    I was nearly 29 when I had my first five PMs in my lifetime.

    That's an interesting one. 16 for me.
    Unlucky 13 for me starting with SuperMac. I might have to count Harold twice to make it 14.

    16 you say? You are older than you look!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    edited September 2022
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Liz Truss was elected Tory leader. We’ve had worse days.
    True

    But I hope you’re suitably ashamed of the suspiciously convenient spectacle that is @foxy and @kinabalu tonight

    I’m in a generous mood so I’ll put it down to lightning and wine
    If she is ever electe Tory leader, Badenoch will be defeated because of what she thinks, says and does. The nearest the Tories have to Corbyn right now. A enthusiastically divisive politician.

    But let’s not carried away by talk of failing Tory opposition leaders, we have two years of Truss to endure and enjoy first.
    I’m not sure we know enough about Badenoch to dismiss her that easily. She’s young, engaging, clever and going places. She will learn

    She’s certainly not a crusty old traitor Marxist like Corbyn. An absurd comparison

    On Truss I am ambivalent. Earlier today I was in mild but amiable despair. Her terrible speech. But the confused reaction to her from the pb left actually gives me hope. Maybe she will flummox people and do ok. Mmm. We shall see

    And on that ecumenical note, good night PB. I have a coast to walk tomorrow
    Badenoch is 42. Liz Truss is 47.

    She's not that young (though youthful for Cabinet if she makes it), she's just far less experienced as an MP and at senior level, so was more unknown than others.

    Still, Sunak is only 42 as well and his senior career is effectively over already.
    Yet here in the US, voters are happy to have their politics in the hands of geriatrics that wouldn’t be considered eligible, on grounds of old age, by most British voters.
    We do have a head of state over 90 though, even older than Biden even if we have had only 2 of the 2 main party leaders elected over 60 since 2000, Michael Howard and Jeremy Corbyn
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093
    HYUFD said:
    Indeed, the raucous rounds of applause might have sounded like boos to the Mail's untrained ear. I suspect the Mail might have hired a small taxi to help deliver all the hecklers to the venue.
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Liz Truss was elected Tory leader. We’ve had worse days.
    True

    But I hope you’re suitably ashamed of the suspiciously convenient spectacle that is @foxy and @kinabalu tonight

    I’m in a generous mood so I’ll put it down to lightning and wine
    If she is ever electe Tory leader, Badenoch will be defeated because of what she thinks, says and does. The nearest the Tories have to Corbyn right now. A enthusiastically divisive politician.

    But let’s not carried away by talk of failing Tory opposition leaders, we have two years of Truss to endure and enjoy first.
    I’m not sure we know enough about Badenoch to dismiss her that easily. She’s young, engaging, clever and going places. She will learn

    She’s certainly not a crusty old traitor Marxist like Corbyn. An absurd comparison

    On Truss I am ambivalent. Earlier today I was in mild but amiable despair. Her terrible speech. But the confused reaction to her from the pb left actually gives me hope. Maybe she will flummox people and do ok. Mmm. We shall see

    And on that ecumenical note, good night PB. I have a coast to walk tomorrow
    Badenoch is 42. Liz Truss is 47.

    She's not that young (though youthful for Cabinet if she makes it), she's just far less experienced as an MP and at senior level, so was more unknown than others.

    Still, Sunak is only 42 as well and his senior career is effectively over already.
    I can see Sunak popping up in the future - if not in UK govt but something in the IMF perhaps, though his wife's squillions (and his own vast funds) means he could be a man of leisure
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093
    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Why?
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Not a great day for the PB Left

    Liz Truss was elected Tory leader. We’ve had worse days.
    The flip side to that is Johnson's defenestration which warms the cockles. Judith Durham singing "The Carnival is over" just keeps on playing in my head.

    It's a great day to be alive!
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    The PB Left - and on the Guardian, and beyond - would be FAR better off if they just celebrated this evidence of racial progress in Britain, and then moved swiftly on

    Anything else looks disturbingly and bizarrely churlish, and also partisan to an odd degree. Tsk. Basic fail

    Desperate stuff. The fact they are being criticised for their ideas and policies just goes to show how far some of us have travelled.

    You could always catching up instead of whingeing in the background.
    Kemi Badenoch told an anecdote about campaigning in her first General Election when she stood against Tessa Jowell, and she knocked on one lady's door who was indignant about a young black woman standing for the Tories "after everything we've done for you people".

    That’s a genius anecdote. We see the same attitude on here tonight. Paternalist lefty racism

    Biden does it all the time
    Yeah. I wonder if it is true.
    It's certainly very convenient! You couldn't craft one any better.
    Embellishment may well occur, but is it any more 'convenient' than anyone else recounting an experience of racism or discrimination which they raise to emphasise whatever point they are making?

    From before she was an MP there are clips of her mentioning other similar experiences, so either she's played a very long game or she's had such experiences.
    Who knows. Some anecdotes are true and some aren't.

    But this one does absolutely illustrate a right wing trope about the left. It's a precision bomb.
    Yes, suspiciously convenient.
    Another one. Someone chalk them up

    “Allegations of racism by right wing black politicians are always wrong. They are invented by evil uppity posh black people who don’t count anyway how dare they ugh”
    @Leon - Have you asked any black people what they think about these issues? I have a left-wing black friend who deeply admires US Republican Ben Carson not because of his politics but because of how his mother and he hauled their way (by means of education) out of a poverty that had a profoundly racist character to it. While she likes Carson, she thinks Kemi Badenoch is a born-rich a***hole who references race in a wholly fake way. If Badenoch had come from poverty I would view her differently, and I would be interested in why on earth she had become a Tory. As it is, I know damned well why she became a Tory. It's not rocket science. Many Tories loved white supremacy in South Africa and Rhodesia, and some of them still hanker for those days now. Not very many black people who come from poverty and who make it into the political world become Tories - I wonder why.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "TOMORROW 7.30am
    Boris Johnson to deliver a farewell address outside No10. He will then go to Balmoral in Scotland to ask the Queen to accept his resignation.

    11.20am
    Mr Johnson arrives at Balmoral for his audience with the monarch.

    12.10pm
    Mr Johnson departs and Ms Truss, having travelled to Scotland separately, will be welcomed by the Queen and asked to form a new government.

    12.40pm
    Ms Truss heads back to London.

    4pm
    The new PM arrives at No10 to address the nation for the first time. She will make the last Cabinet appointments and have meetings for updates on matters of national security."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11181285/Liz-Truss-PM-winning-Tory-leader-contest.html

    Why can't Truss save 3 hours and address the nation from Scotland? It's not a requirement to make statements in front of the No.10 front door.
    Presumably she's heading for number 10 anyway.
  • The ethnic minorities in the Tory party seem to be on the right wing. Patel, Kemi, Braverman etc all rose up by being “hangers and floggers” (metaphorically).

    Then you have the finance bros, like Sunak, Javid, and Zahawi.

    I can only think of Sam Gyimah, who went off to join the LDs, on the “Tory left”.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316

    Nigelb said:

    Good thread on the Trump decision.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1566835323417645056
    I kept an open mind. I really did. But reading Judge Cannon’s ruling left my jaw on the floor in its absurdity. Unless the federalist society wants to argue that this precedent would only apply to Trump, this ruling would demolish future white collar criminal investigations…

    It's a District Court decision so, whether it's right or wrong, it doesn't actually set a legal precedent as it's essentially lowest rung. You only get into precedents from higher courts (circuit appeals courts and the Supreme Court) not from the same level.

    This error was made over the Colston statue acquittal. You can argue it was wrong, but people saying it set a poor precedent don't understand precedent. It didn't set a legal precedent at all.
    It will very likely appealed, of course. As the thread suggests.

    The thread is a critique of the reasoning of the ruling.
    If it stands, it will set a precedent - granted a binding precedent only if appealed and upheld.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    edited September 2022
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    The PB Left - and on the Guardian, and beyond - would be FAR better off if they just celebrated this evidence of racial progress in Britain, and then moved swiftly on

    Anything else looks disturbingly and bizarrely churlish, and also partisan to an odd degree. Tsk. Basic fail

    Desperate stuff. The fact they are being criticised for their ideas and policies just goes to show how far some of us have travelled.

    You could always catching up instead of whingeing in the background.
    Kemi Badenoch told an anecdote about campaigning in her first General Election when she stood against Tessa Jowell, and she knocked on one lady's door who was indignant about a young black woman standing for the Tories "after everything we've done for you people".

    That’s a genius anecdote. We see the same attitude on here tonight. Paternalist lefty racism

    Biden does it all the time
    Yeah. I wonder if it is true.
    It's certainly very convenient! You couldn't craft one any better.
    Embellishment may well occur, but is it any more 'convenient' than anyone else recounting an experience of racism or discrimination which they raise to emphasise whatever point they are making?

    From before she was an MP there are clips of her mentioning other similar experiences, so either she's played a very long game or she's had such experiences.
    Who knows. Some anecdotes are true and some aren't.

    But this one does absolutely illustrate a right wing trope about the left. It's a precision bomb.
    Yes, suspiciously convenient.
    Another one. Someone chalk them up

    “Allegations of racism by right wing black politicians are always wrong and invented by evil uppity posh black people who don’t count as black people anyway how dare they ugh”
    No, I am sure she has been the butt of racism, but that anecdote seems suspicious.
    How? What about it makes you think it is made up?

    It could be, but what makes you think it is?
    Well, she has embellished a number of other aspects of her life story. Not unique in a politician, indeed often a feature of ambition.

    Her father was a doctor who owned a hospital and established a publishing company. Her mother is a professor of physiology and cousin of Nigerias vice president. She was educated at the posh private International School in Lagos. She has a British passport because her mother arrived in 1980 to deliver her in a private maternity unit in London.

    She trades on the idea of being a burger flipping escapee from African poverty, but that is quite the exaggeration.
    So basically all anecdotes are suspiciously convenient.

    But if she has form for being a liar I'd have led with that rather than simpler avering that it was suspicious without stating why. The convenience of an anecdote doesn't speak to its truthfulness, but a history of making things up would undermine it.
    Political anecdotes are, of course, selective.

    I don’t think there’s anything ‘suspicious’ about that. Rather that they are anecdotes, and not of any great evidential value.
    Scepticism towards them is entirely merited, but that doesn’t mean completely dismissing them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good thread on the Trump decision.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1566835323417645056
    I kept an open mind. I really did. But reading Judge Cannon’s ruling left my jaw on the floor in its absurdity. Unless the federalist society wants to argue that this precedent would only apply to Trump, this ruling would demolish future white collar criminal investigations…

    It's a District Court decision so, whether it's right or wrong, it doesn't actually set a legal precedent as it's essentially lowest rung. You only get into precedents from higher courts (circuit appeals courts and the Supreme Court) not from the same level.

    This error was made over the Colston statue acquittal. You can argue it was wrong, but people saying it set a poor precedent don't understand precedent. It didn't set a legal precedent at all.
    It will very likely appealed, of course. As the thread suggests.

    The thread is a critique of the reasoning of the ruling.
    If it stands, it will set a precedent - granted a binding precedent only if appealed and upheld.
    Note Thomas is the judge who would first review any appeal from the 11th Circuit (with its own fair share of Fed Soc approved judges) should they uphold the ruling.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    edited September 2022

    Leon said:

    The PB Left - and on the Guardian, and beyond - would be FAR better off if they just celebrated this evidence of racial progress in Britain, and then moved swiftly on

    Anything else looks disturbingly and bizarrely churlish, and also partisan to an odd degree. Tsk. Basic fail

    Don't think the PB Left whomsoever they may be cares overly about what you thinks would make them better off.
    @Leon does have half a point in this case, I think.
    Even if his self appointed status as arbiter is guaranteed to wind up anyone who’s not an avid fan.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    Outside of government, he’s just a fruit loop.
    Re-elected, he would be a profoundly dangerous threat to US democracy.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/politicususa/status/1566879416885600259
    Trump responded to being granted a special master by one of his appointees by demanding that the 2020 election results be changed so that he can return to the White House.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good thread on the Trump decision.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1566835323417645056
    I kept an open mind. I really did. But reading Judge Cannon’s ruling left my jaw on the floor in its absurdity. Unless the federalist society wants to argue that this precedent would only apply to Trump, this ruling would demolish future white collar criminal investigations…

    It's a District Court decision so, whether it's right or wrong, it doesn't actually set a legal precedent as it's essentially lowest rung. You only get into precedents from higher courts (circuit appeals courts and the Supreme Court) not from the same level.

    This error was made over the Colston statue acquittal. You can argue it was wrong, but people saying it set a poor precedent don't understand precedent. It didn't set a legal precedent at all.
    It will very likely appealed, of course. As the thread suggests.

    The thread is a critique of the reasoning of the ruling.
    If it stands, it will set a precedent - granted a binding precedent only if appealed and upheld.
    Note Thomas is the judge who would first review any appeal from the 11th Circuit (with its own fair share of Fed Soc approved judges) should they uphold the ruling.
    And 6 of the 11 judges on the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals are Trump appointees, too.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,682
    Tip to anyone ordering a Chinese takeaway in the US: enough rice to feed four people comes with the main dish; there is no need to order rice separately.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    "Liz Truss has just two months to save broken Britain from terminal decline
    The new PM will have to face down the Leftist elite if we’re to avoid becoming an emerging market economy
    Sherelle Jacobs" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/05/liz-truss-has-just-two-months-save-broken-britain-terminal-decline/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    Andy_JS said:

    "Liz Truss has just two months to save broken Britain from terminal decline
    The new PM will have to face down the Leftist elite if we’re to avoid becoming an emerging market economy
    Sherelle Jacobs" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/05/liz-truss-has-just-two-months-save-broken-britain-terminal-decline/

    Wait: so if Lizz Truss waits nine weeks before acting, Britain is basically done?

    I loathe headlines like this (just like the [x] weeks to save the NHS ones), because they are so patently absurd.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002

    The ethnic minorities in the Tory party seem to be on the right wing. Patel, Kemi, Braverman etc all rose up by being “hangers and floggers” (metaphorically).

    Then you have the finance bros, like Sunak, Javid, and Zahawi.

    I can only think of Sam Gyimah, who went off to join the LDs, on the “Tory left”.

    Kwasi is also a 'finance bro', having worked for Odey Asset Management.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    This is an excellent thread explaining why so many legal commentators are quite so angered and/or bemused by the Trump decision.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/HeidiLiFeldman/status/1566935611197489155
    I think it is hard for nonlawyers to understand just how distressing Judge Cannon’s rulings and arguments are. I’m going to set aside more technical aspects and try to explain accessibly. 1/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,979

    ...

    kinabalu said:

    My eldest son is 12 and tomorrow he will be onto his fifth PM of his lifetime.

    I was nearly 29 when I had my first five PMs in my lifetime.

    That's an interesting one. 16 for me.
    Unlucky 13 for me starting with SuperMac. I might have to count Harold twice to make it 14.

    16 you say? You are older than you look!
    The "16" is how old I was when I got my 5th PM - that was the game.

    You can revise me back down!
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,005
    Andy_JS said:

    "Liz Truss has just two months to save broken Britain from terminal decline
    The new PM will have to face down the Leftist elite if we’re to avoid becoming an emerging market economy
    Sherelle Jacobs" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/05/liz-truss-has-just-two-months-save-broken-britain-terminal-decline/

    If we're performing so piss-poorly compared with Norway and the Netherlands (and I agree we are), shouldn't we be doing more stuff like them, rather than less?
  • Well you all wanted it, this leadership election. and I mean by that Labour, LD and SNP MP's and then Tory MP's. Now you ask the question will she be better or worse, well how do we know. Pointless question because too early to say. Ask me again in late 2023. I think though she would be better than Sunak, but I don't know. The main reason to not support Sunak is because we don't know what his policies are on anything other than finance (apart from what he says in this election process) and of course he cannot win a GE because his personal riches will be seized upon by Labour. That is just how it is. It is not something that is a concern to me, but will be to a lot of floating voters. That makes him unelectable.

    My position on Boris is that he is unbeatable by anyone in the red wall but not in Con/LD marginals. If Truss pays bills for utilities for everyone will she be beatable by anyone, no. But is that something to want, absolutely not because it leads to more Govt debt. Which also would be the case with Labour. The answer is you want more Govt spending, you better tax. Both Truss and Labour would not up taxes to the extent required. So they better cut, where will the cuts be? That is the question. Both want growth, my view is that is impossible without population growth or immigration that apparently no one wants. Maybe if Govt builds social housing, you could get growth because then more people get to be in houses, guess what they need stuff. Right now maybe they are sharing with others. But without incredible housing build that we all need (say 1M minimum) growth is unlikely as we all have everything we need. The only growth will be in Holidays and travel, and apparently net zero policies rule that out. So that is possibly where she should start, cut the net Zero rubbish and certainly reduce airport taxes. When I went to the US, I flew from Paris to avoid airport taxes for long haul and only paid a minimum amount in theory, in fact I paid pretty much Zero as paid with BA Avios. BA no doubt paid for short haul tax. France don't levy much airport taxes, this became evident to me after checking after the Budget 2021. BA suddenly put the cheapest business fare to NY to £2800 (from £1500 bargain basement Covid price), I paid £1100 Air France price so a boost to French economy and not to the British economy. This is where airport taxes don't help the UK economy. And despite some people's bad comments on AF, they were wrong obviously as any fool going to France knows who has a meal in a restaurant. Meals were absolutely great compared to BA business.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093
    edited September 2022
    kinabalu said:

    ...

    kinabalu said:

    My eldest son is 12 and tomorrow he will be onto his fifth PM of his lifetime.

    I was nearly 29 when I had my first five PMs in my lifetime.

    That's an interesting one. 16 for me.
    Unlucky 13 for me starting with SuperMac. I might have to count Harold twice to make it 14.

    16 you say? You are older than you look!
    The "16" is how old I was when I got my 5th PM - that was the game.

    You can revise me back down!
    Ah, that would be Sunny Jim for me then unless we are counting Harold twice, then it's six. We must be twins.

    Far too complicated a game for me mind.
This discussion has been closed.