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BoJo goes next week but what then? – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    We should never have closed the schools. It is an enormous tragedy

    Yes. There are stats somewhere for the increase in highly-likely-to-be-abuse type injuries at Great Ormond Street. At least tenfold.
    Yes. I believe we will see more and more of these stories, until it becomes obvious to all that the lockdowns were a catastrophe.

    Is it all my fault? My panic in Feb 2020? Did I provoke the world into a calamitous overreaction which has broken human society? Oh well. Soz boz, apolibobs!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,416
    dixiedean said:

    Boris speech.
    Very pro-nuclear. And pro-wind. Not impressed with fracking.
    Very substantial sums of help forthcoming.
    Why on Earth this is happening now is an intriguing question.

    Preparing for a Thatcher style insurgency from the back benches.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,312
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Well, I do know him a bit, and my impression is that he avoids hard work, because he's found that he can get by without it. If you have a fast mind (and he does) you can get maybe 70% of your tasks done in 20% of the time available, and if you're also charming and amusing (and he is), you can top that up to an apparent 110%.

    I empathise a bit - I have a quick mind too (minus the charisma), and it's quite seductive not to bother with the 100%, especially as I don't find that really putting in the effort gets me to 100% quality anyway - more like 85%. Not comparing myself to the PM, but maybe there's a similar process going on. I've got this week off work, and in theory I could be taking the time to really understand some complex issue. Instead, it's more fun just to chat here.
    Every person I know who knows him says he is lazy, dating back to his schooldays. He was then and he is now and I think we have all seen that these past few years.

    Of course he is also immensely gifted and I'm sure has no problem whatsoever knocking out (phnarr) 1,000 amusing words for a Spectator or DT audience which is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel but that's not to say there's no market for it. It is absolutely "real work" - it's just that it is the type that he has a natural affinity for.
    Re writing, it's much easier to knock off a general audience piece for a newspaper or magazine than it is to do a full scholarly paper. The former can be comment, it has far less detail to check, it is shorter, and so on. The latter has to be watertight and documented and all the bases and loopholes covered. It takes far, far longer to do. Indeed, they're so different that they almost need different brains - it's only the keyboard and screen that are in common. Being a Speccy columnist versus PM is like that. In the former, a CBA attitude is easy - you just pick a different topic or route. In the latter, it's fatal.

    That’s really not true. Otherwise all the people doing the hard, scholarly papers would be knocking out easy columns for £300,000 a year. They aren’t, because it is in fact difficult. Few have the skill. Those that do are therefore well rewarded

    One of these skills is concision. Making an interesting point in as few words as possible, while remaining memorable and vivid

    A lot of people who can technically “write” can’t do this, they write far too much and bore the reader
    They are different skills. Most academics can't write well, in the sense of making their subject matter gripping or comprehensible to the general reader, or even expressing themselves elegantly, but that doesn't matter as that's not the purpose of their writing. Being able to convey complex ideas to a general audience in a way that captures their imagination and leaves them better informed than they were before is very hard and few seem able to do it well. Being able to write memorable or amusing prose well is also difficult - certainly harder than purely academic writing but probably easier than conveying complex ideas in a readable way. Boris Johnson is highly skilled in this third field, although he is several rungs below PG Wodehouse, who seems to be who he is trying to emulate.
    There is no reason to think that being good at any of the three would make you good at running the country, but of the three I would expect skill in the second field to be the most advantageous, thinking of people like Thatcher or Blair.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,739
    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    I think he's motivated when something grips him, usually a big crusade like Brexit, the vaccination campaign or the war in Ukraine. But when it's something complex, tedious and involving tradeoffs and shades of grey, like 90% of government, he mostly loses interest.

    That would be fine if he had built a competent team to attend to the detailed business of government, but he didn't. He hired the crank Dominic Cummings instead.
    Yes I agree with that. And yes one of his big failings was his inability to recruit and retain a talented team, in Number 10, to sweat the small stuff

    It’s a bit of a mystery, because he was good at it as Mayor. And he can definitely spot talent - eg Kate Bingham on vaccines
    Yes, but in previous roles such as the Mayor, his team were advisors who he could hire and fire pretty much at will, and presented no threat to him since they operated in the administrative rather than political world.

    That ended when he had to pick a cabinet and run into the consequences of his own paranoia, insecurity and history of disloyalty towards previous party leaders. He should have picked a cabinet of the the most talented and trusted them to get on with stuff, but didn’t, for political reasons that don’t need spelling out. So we got Williamson, JRM, Dorries and the rest, instead.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 16,451


    Customer: Why can't I access any of my money?
    Bank: We can't tell you, the Home Secretary has blocked it and under money laundering rules we can't tell you more.

    It's even more kafkaesque than that because the bank doesn't wait for a directive from the Home Secretary. They have a responsibility to independently guess what the Home Secretary would do. It's the perfect design to remove any possibility of any accountability anywhere: You have vast, sweeping state power, but the government isn't directly responsible for any of it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    I think he's motivated when something grips him, usually a big crusade like Brexit, the vaccination campaign or the war in Ukraine. But when it's something complex, tedious and involving tradeoffs and shades of grey, like 90% of government, he mostly loses interest.

    That would be fine if he had built a competent team to attend to the detailed business of government, but he didn't. He hired the crank Dominic Cummings instead.
    Yes I agree with that. And yes one of his big failings was his inability to recruit and retain a talented team, in Number 10, to sweat the small stuff

    It’s a bit of a mystery, because he was good at it as Mayor. And he can definitely spot talent - eg Kate Bingham on vaccines
    Yes, but in previous roles such as the Mayor, his team were advisors who he could hire and fire pretty much at will, and presented no threat to him since they operated in the administrative rather than political world.

    That ended when he had to pick a cabinet and run into the consequences of his own paranoia, insecurity and history of disloyalty towards previous party leaders. He should have picked a cabinet of the the most talented and trusted them to get on with stuff, but didn’t, for political reasons that don’t need spelling out. So we got Williamson, JRM, Dorries and the rest, instead.
    Yes, that makes sense. A mystery solved. Gratitude
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Well, I do know him a bit, and my impression is that he avoids hard work, because he's found that he can get by without it. If you have a fast mind (and he does) you can get maybe 70% of your tasks done in 20% of the time available, and if you're also charming and amusing (and he is), you can top that up to an apparent 110%.

    I empathise a bit - I have a quick mind too (minus the charisma), and it's quite seductive not to bother with the 100%, especially as I don't find that really putting in the effort gets me to 100% quality anyway - more like 85%. Not comparing myself to the PM, but maybe there's a similar process going on. I've got this week off work, and in theory I could be taking the time to really understand some complex issue. Instead, it's more fun just to chat here.
    Every person I know who knows him says he is lazy, dating back to his schooldays. He was then and he is now and I think we have all seen that these past few years.

    Of course he is also immensely gifted and I'm sure has no problem whatsoever knocking out (phnarr) 1,000 amusing words for a Spectator or DT audience which is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel but that's not to say there's no market for it. It is absolutely "real work" - it's just that it is the type that he has a natural affinity for.
    Re writing, it's much easier to knock off a general audience piece for a newspaper or magazine than it is to do a full scholarly paper. The former can be comment, it has far less detail to check, it is shorter, and so on. The latter has to be watertight and documented and all the bases and loopholes covered. It takes far, far longer to do. Indeed, they're so different that they almost need different brains - it's only the keyboard and screen that are in common. Being a Speccy columnist versus PM is like that. In the former, a CBA attitude is easy - you just pick a different topic or route. In the latter, it's fatal.

    That’s really not true. Otherwise all the people doing the hard, scholarly papers would be knocking out easy columns for £300,000 a year. They aren’t, because it is in fact difficult. Few have the skill. Those that do are therefore well rewarded

    One of these skills is concision. Making an interesting point in as few words as possible, while remaining memorable and vivid

    A lot of people who can technically “write” can’t do this, they write far too much and bore the reader
    They are different skills. Most academics can't write well, in the sense of making their subject matter gripping or comprehensible to the general reader, or even expressing themselves elegantly, but that doesn't matter as that's not the purpose of their writing. Being able to convey complex ideas to a general audience in a way that captures their imagination and leaves them better informed than they were before is very hard and few seem able to do it well. Being able to write memorable or amusing prose well is also difficult - certainly harder than purely academic writing but probably easier than conveying complex ideas in a readable way. Boris Johnson is highly skilled in this third field, although he is several rungs below PG Wodehouse, who seems to be who he is trying to emulate.
    There is no reason to think that being good at any of the three would make you good at running the country, but of the three I would expect skill in the second field to be the most advantageous, thinking of people like Thatcher or Blair.
    In my experience, academics often write worse prose than the average person on the Croydon tram. Prolix, obscure, full of jargon - it’s generally gibberish. There are rare and precious exceptions. Like Pinker or Scruton
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,739
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Nah, you’re getting him wrong, and not paying enough attention to testimony from those that have known him best. He’s bright enough to be able to (or to think that he is) wing those roles with the minimum of preparation or application, then he landed in the one job that you can’t do that way, and got found out.

    There’s a difference between being busy, and making a real effort.
    We will have to disagree

    I actually believe he was a pretty good prime minister, given an unbelievably difficult hand to play. For a start he won a majority and therefore got Brexit done: winning is a vital part of politics

    He then faced a global pandemic. He made errors there - masks, borders, too many boffins - but he also achieved notable successes: vaccines, resisting lockdown 4

    He handled Ukraine so well he is now a Ukrainian national hero

    That’s not bad. Remoaners will never accept it, because they loathe him irrationally, but his CV is quite decent

    He was brought down by personal quirks and flaws, not inability. He’s arrogant and thought the rules didn’t apply to him, he’s a libertine so he let the staff play

    That’s not a disagreement but an attempt to deflect the argument into a different field altogether.

    Whether he was a good or bad PM will be debated endlessly, and we certainly do disagree. But that’s a different matter entirely from whether he applies himself diligently and properly to the work in front of him. Like Nick, I have spent some time with him both publicly and privately and maintain that he may have been busy but is nevertheless lazy - indeed lazy in both the specific and wider meanings of the term - and becoming PM showed him up horribly; just as many of those who has worked closely with him over many years prior said that it would.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,233
    Andy_JS said:

    "Russian oil chief Maganov dies in 'fall from hospital window'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62750584

    If Russia had joined the EU they would have lots of regulations about window safety and, no doubt, many lives would have been saved. If only to be lost again by drinking the wrong tea, of course.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,607
    Just 2 local by-elections today - in Redditch and Worcestershire. Both Con defences - in fact caused by a double-hatted vacancy.
  • Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Well, I do know him a bit, and my impression is that he avoids hard work, because he's found that he can get by without it. If you have a fast mind (and he does) you can get maybe 70% of your tasks done in 20% of the time available, and if you're also charming and amusing (and he is), you can top that up to an apparent 110%.

    I empathise a bit - I have a quick mind too (minus the charisma), and it's quite seductive not to bother with the 100%, especially as I don't find that really putting in the effort gets me to 100% quality anyway - more like 85%. Not comparing myself to the PM, but maybe there's a similar process going on. I've got this week off work, and in theory I could be taking the time to really understand some complex issue. Instead, it's more fun just to chat here.
    Every person I know who knows him says he is lazy, dating back to his schooldays. He was then and he is now and I think we have all seen that these past few years.

    Of course he is also immensely gifted and I'm sure has no problem whatsoever knocking out (phnarr) 1,000 amusing words for a Spectator or DT audience which is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel but that's not to say there's no market for it. It is absolutely "real work" - it's just that it is the type that he has a natural affinity for.
    Re writing, it's much easier to knock off a general audience piece for a newspaper or magazine than it is to do a full scholarly paper. The former can be comment, it has far less detail to check, it is shorter, and so on. The latter has to be watertight and documented and all the bases and loopholes covered. It takes far, far longer to do. Indeed, they're so different that they almost need different brains - it's only the keyboard and screen that are in common. Being a Speccy columnist versus PM is like that. In the former, a CBA attitude is easy - you just pick a different topic or route. In the latter, it's fatal.

    That’s really not true. Otherwise all the people doing the hard, scholarly papers would be knocking out easy columns for £300,000 a year. They aren’t, because it is in fact difficult. Few have the skill. Those that do are therefore well rewarded

    One of these skills is concision. Making an interesting point in as few words as possible, while remaining memorable and vivid

    A lot of people who can technically “write” can’t do this, they write far too much and bore the reader
    They are different skills. Most academics can't write well, in the sense of making their subject matter gripping or comprehensible to the general reader, or even expressing themselves elegantly, but that doesn't matter as that's not the purpose of their writing. Being able to convey complex ideas to a general audience in a way that captures their imagination and leaves them better informed than they were before is very hard and few seem able to do it well. Being able to write memorable or amusing prose well is also difficult - certainly harder than purely academic writing but probably easier than conveying complex ideas in a readable way. Boris Johnson is highly skilled in this third field, although he is several rungs below PG Wodehouse, who seems to be who he is trying to emulate.
    There is no reason to think that being good at any of the three would make you good at running the country, but of the three I would expect skill in the second field to be the most advantageous, thinking of people like Thatcher or Blair.
    The tragedy is that Johnson has a set of talents for writing and editing. For lobbing the arresting squib into the sky. He has an overlapping set of talents for causing a scene in a good cause, which was one way of doing Mayor of London.

    Tragically for him, he also wanted to be taken seriously as a great national leader. He has never (and still appears not to have) accepted his place splashing around in the shallow end, in the way that (say) Gyles Brandreth did.

    And whilst he had the abilities to get into Number Ten, he didn't have the abilities to stay there or do much good in the meantime.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,109

    And whilst he had the abilities to get into Number Ten, he didn't have the abilities to stay there or do much good in the meantime.

    A feat Truss is about to replicate
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,095
    On topic - Johnson will try for a comeback in politics because without that he's a void. Maybe he'll manage it, I don't know. Must be a chance if the Tories crash to a GE defeat under Truss (which they probably will imo). For now it'll just be great to see less of him and know he's lost the power to make decisions affecting millions of people.

    Normally when a PM is ousted, regardless of their politics, I tip my hat and take a moment to feel warm towards them. Why? Because they've served the country in the top job, done something a million miles beyond what I can even conceive of; they've took on this most stressful and responsible of positions and I know they've done their best in it, driven by a sense of public service along with the personal ambition, and I know it's meant a lot to them, not just for ego reasons, prestige and profile, powerlust, but the honour of being PM - you see this in the raw when the voice catches or the eyes glisten as they say farewell, Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, you saw it with all of them, and maybe I'm a softy but that gets to me, brings it home to me that this person now departing has merit and deserves respect and a thank-you for their efforts.

    Sadly (for me) I can't manage this with Boris Johnson. He didn't do his best. There was no sense of duty or service to go with the personal ambition. The honour hasn't meant a lot to him. He doesn't feel it. He thinks the honour was ours.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,744
    edited September 1
    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Well, I do know him a bit, and my impression is that he avoids hard work, because he's found that he can get by without it. If you have a fast mind (and he does) you can get maybe 70% of your tasks done in 20% of the time available, and if you're also charming and amusing (and he is), you can top that up to an apparent 110%.

    I empathise a bit - I have a quick mind too (minus the charisma), and it's quite seductive not to bother with the 100%, especially as I don't find that really putting in the effort gets me to 100% quality anyway - more like 85%. Not comparing myself to the PM, but maybe there's a similar process going on. I've got this week off work, and in theory I could be taking the time to really understand some complex issue. Instead, it's more fun just to chat here.
    Every person I know who knows him says he is lazy, dating back to his schooldays. He was then and he is now and I think we have all seen that these past few years.

    Of course he is also immensely gifted and I'm sure has no problem whatsoever knocking out (phnarr) 1,000 amusing words for a Spectator or DT audience which is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel but that's not to say there's no market for it. It is absolutely "real work" - it's just that it is the type that he has a natural affinity for.
    He's very good at what he's good at.
    Unfortunately, several of the skillsets required to stay at the absolute pinnacle simply aren't there. And it eventually finds you out.
    I think that's likely to be the case for any mortal these days as we are so demanding of our governments and put them under relentless 24-hour scrutiny that is far more intensive than anything even Tony Blair, let alone Mrs Thatcher, had to deal with. NOBODY will have all the skills demanded, or even perhaps most of them.

    So they need to assemble a good team and delegate, but keep them accountable and up to scratch. And that was the most important way in which Blair succeeded and Boris failed.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,109
    WTF?

    One senior aide to @trussliz tells me her approach to foreign policy will be “geoliberalism”
    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1565294882742231042
  • Goddamit, just posted this on the old thread like a dumbass...

    Ok, this is a twitter lefty, but this penny is dropping beyond lefty twitter now. A lot of businesses are going to shut suddenly very soon.

    The supermarket near me has had half its lights switched off for a couple of weeks now. Either they’re waiting ages for a sparkie or it’s to save money. I suspect the latter. People are noticing.

    Truss better have something or she’s buggered. And not in a good way.

  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,374
    Andy_JS said:

    "Russian oil chief Maganov dies in 'fall from hospital window'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62750584

    The Russians aren't even trying to be original anymore. The amount of 'fell out of a window' accidents in Russia is so high, I wonder whether it would be motoring deaths.
    Maybe they need a window tax, to cause people to brick them up. Too many deaths otherwise.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521

    Goddamit, just posted this on the old thread like a dumbass...

    Ok, this is a twitter lefty, but this penny is dropping beyond lefty twitter now. A lot of businesses are going to shut suddenly very soon.

    The supermarket near me has had half its lights switched off for a couple of weeks now. Either they’re waiting ages for a sparkie or it’s to save money. I suspect the latter. People are noticing.

    Truss better have something or she’s buggered. And not in a good way.

    This is not a “lefty Twitter” issue. My family swings more right and they’re not on Twitter and they are talking about it constantly. Energy prices. Winter. Pubs shutting
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,416
    HMS PoW off to dry dock in Rosyth. WESTLANT 2022 in the bin. US 2nd Fleet, who moved their own training program around to accomodate her, not amused.

    Sort it out, Truss.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551
    So the DM is blaming Remainers for not attending events that were connected to the thing they detested ! You really couldn’t make it up !
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,485
    IshmaelZ said:
    I would be concerned if he approved.

    Unboxed, the ‘festival of Brexit’ has been a massive flop:

    Has anyone attended any of these events? I did look at their website a few months ago but it all looked like a load of guff to me so didn’t bother. I’m surprised any arty, creative types got involved at all. But I guess £120m opens doors.

    The DM are furious. Not like them.


    Best rated comments below the article are surprising for the DM though. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11166831/Brexit-Fury-120million-arts-festival-celebrate-Brexit-pro-Remain-flop.html

    Not an easy one. A workable 'Brexit festival' would have been an enclosed performance like an arena-based proms/military tattoo. Such 'patriotic' tours already exist actually, of course without the Brexit badge. At the very most, an outdoor performance perhaps somewhere gated like Blenheim Palace. No 'grassroots' art festival was going to work, not in the present climate and given the political preferences of that community.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Nah, you’re getting him wrong, and not paying enough attention to testimony from those that have known him best. He’s bright enough to be able to (or to think that he is) wing those roles with the minimum of preparation or application, then he landed in the one job that you can’t do that way, and got found out.

    There’s a difference between being busy, and making a real effort.
    We will have to disagree

    I actually believe he was a pretty good prime minister, given an unbelievably difficult hand to play. For a start he won a majority and therefore got Brexit done: winning is a vital part of politics

    He then faced a global pandemic. He made errors there - masks, borders, too many boffins - but he also achieved notable successes: vaccines, resisting lockdown 4

    He handled Ukraine so well he is now a Ukrainian national hero

    That’s not bad. Remoaners will never accept it, because they loathe him irrationally, but his CV is quite decent

    He was brought down by personal quirks and flaws, not inability. He’s arrogant and thought the rules didn’t apply to him, he’s a libertine so he let the staff play

    That’s not a disagreement but an attempt to deflect the argument into a different field altogether.

    Whether he was a good or bad PM will be debated endlessly, and we certainly do disagree. But that’s a different matter entirely from whether he applies himself diligently and properly to the work in front of him. Like Nick, I have spent some time with him both publicly and privately and maintain that he may have been busy but is nevertheless lazy - indeed lazy in both the specific and wider meanings of the term - and becoming PM showed him up horribly; just as many of those who has worked closely with him over many years prior said that it would.
    The debate grows boring. Perhaps we just disagree on the meaning of the word “lazy”

    🤷‍♂️
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,109
    Boris Johnson is asked if he has any advice for British people struggling with soaring energy bills

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"


    http://trib.al/E1lM4zH https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1565302383651045376/video/1

    An allegory for his entire fucking time in office...

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990
    edited September 1
    Dura_Ace said:

    HMS PoW off to dry dock in Rosyth. WESTLANT 2022 in the bin. US 2nd Fleet, who moved their own training program around to accomodate her, not amused.

    Sort it out, Truss.

    Well known for her naval engineering skills ?

    I suppose the could just decide to scrap it. That would sort it out.
    Though it would leave us with a complement of overpriced and relatively underperforming F35s.
  • Scott_xP said:

    WTF?

    One senior aide to @trussliz tells me her approach to foreign policy will be “geoliberalism”
    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1565294882742231042

    Maybe that will be a new Trussism? Starting her own philosophy early?

    Geolibertarianism has a lot going for it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geolibertarianism
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,109
    Dura_Ace said:

    HMS PoW off to dry dock in Rosyth.

    How many weeks is it going to take to get there?
  • Rishi Sunak has a Youtube channel on which he yesterday added a 1-minute video going back to his mum's old shop, so if you've ever wondered what Rishi's parents did for a living, watch:-
    Rishi on the Road: Homecoming
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7a-CQPYhJg
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson is asked if he has any advice for British people struggling with soaring energy bills

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"


    http://trib.al/E1lM4zH https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1565302383651045376/video/1

    An allegory for his entire fucking time in office...

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"

    No we wont be in a much better state. This is just utter delusion. We will have a massive public debt and may well have had some kind of run on the £ and god alone knows what depth of terrible recession.

    I guess this is the kind of crap we can expect from Truss next week.

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,519
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson is asked if he has any advice for British people struggling with soaring energy bills

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"


    http://trib.al/E1lM4zH https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1565302383651045376/video/1

    An allegory for his entire fucking time in office...

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"

    'Yer on your own folks...I couldn't give a toss' sums up what BJ thinks.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    We should never have closed the schools. It is an enormous tragedy

    Yes. There are stats somewhere for the increase in highly-likely-to-be-abuse type injuries at Great Ormond Street. At least tenfold.
    https://adc.bmj.com/content/106/3/e14 is presumably the study you saw.

    Other studies since have also seen rises, like this larger French study, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002013832200585X , although thankfully not as dramatic. Still other studies have not replicated these findings: e.g., this large US study, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022346821006795

    Some studies have found a decrease, like these two US studies: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022346821004863 and https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e2022056284/188279/Emergency-Department-Child-Abuse-Evaluations

    Coming back to the UK, the most recent large study I saw said no change: https://adc.bmj.com/content/107/6/575.abstract

    Several of these studies point to changes in the types of abuse, so it may be more complicated than simply an increase or decrease. All these studies are based on hospital data and other sources of data may produce different conclusions (cf., Anderberg et al., 2022, Significance, 19(4), 28 on domestic abuse). So I think the picture is still unclear, it doesn’t appear to be as bad as that early GOSH report, but certainly reason to be concerned.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,485
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1564157639621312512

    Very important thread from Richard Murphy.

    Altering existing subsidy contracts might be difficult but giving the current Market/Strike difference back to UK consumers (Both business and residential) could be done almost immediately.

    I disagree with his proposal to violate contracts, that's not appropriate, but absolutely agreed that the Market/Strike difference should be returned back to consumers.

    As an icing on the cake, it could even be named on the bill as a "Green Rebate", because that's exactly what it is.

    If we could harness the meltdown that would trigger from people like @MISTY then that would be even better.
    Murphy's idea is based on the same point made before on pb, that energy is a rigged market because price is based not on scarcity but on the most expensive final fraction of production and the rest makes windfall profits.
    How's that a rigged market?

    In a market all actors generally receive the market value for their goods and services. If some firms have lower costs than others, then they don't get paid less accordingly, they make a bigger profit which encourages either them to expand (thus making more profit) or others to invest like them, which ultimately brings the price down.

    That renewable firms are making a profit isn't a problem, its what is driving vast renewable investment. If they weren't making a profit, we wouldn't be getting the investment in renewables.

    Invest in renewables and our demand for gas comes down, reducing gas prices, so reducing the cost of electricity. Invest enough to cease to need gas at all, the price comes down even further.
    "In a market all actors generally receive the market value for their goods and services."

    All actors certainly are NOT receiving the market value for their goods and services. I'm receiving 5.99p/kwH for each unit of solar I export to the grid and that new windfarm Hornsea is receiving 5.5p/kwh for each unit they send to the grid.
    Now whilst we're both perfectly happy with these arrangements as they're part of longstanding contracts that were previously subsidising my solar and historic wind (Where strike prices agreed were higher) the UK consumer is currently benefitting sweet fuck all from these lower priced inputs to the grid.
    It’s the Government getting the difference isn't it? Both RCS and LostPassword have said so. That's a good old-fashioned stealth tax. The king of all stealth taxes in fact.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson is asked if he has any advice for British people struggling with soaring energy bills

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"


    http://trib.al/E1lM4zH https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1565302383651045376/video/1

    An allegory for his entire fucking time in office...

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"

    No we wont be in a much better state. This is just utter delusion. We will have a massive public debt and may well have had some kind of run on the £ and god alone knows what depth of terrible recession.

    I guess this is the kind of crap we can expect from Truss next week.

    Do you really want the prime minister to tell the truth? “We are completely fucked and there’s nothing anyone can do. Try and become an alcoholic”

  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521
    Talking of abject pessimism, this is quite the article from Allister Heath

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/31/putin-has-pulled-shock-win-could-destroy-free-world/

    😶😮
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,416
    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HMS PoW off to dry dock in Rosyth.

    How many weeks is it going to take to get there?
    She's only got one shaft and will have to go to Glen Douglas to be de-ammoed first so a few weeks I would think. Pity the jacks who thought they were getting a run ashore in Florida and are now going for a night out in Dunfermline.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    Dura_Ace said:

    HMS PoW off to dry dock in Rosyth. WESTLANT 2022 in the bin. US 2nd Fleet, who moved their own training program around to accomodate her, not amused.

    Sort it out, Truss.

    Engineer friend delighted. ££££££.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876
    Leon said:

    Goddamit, just posted this on the old thread like a dumbass...

    Ok, this is a twitter lefty, but this penny is dropping beyond lefty twitter now. A lot of businesses are going to shut suddenly very soon.

    The supermarket near me has had half its lights switched off for a couple of weeks now. Either they’re waiting ages for a sparkie or it’s to save money. I suspect the latter. People are noticing.

    Truss better have something or she’s buggered. And not in a good way.

    This is not a “lefty Twitter” issue. My family swings more right and they’re not on Twitter and they are talking about it constantly. Energy prices. Winter. Pubs shutting
    Can you really b*gger in a good way?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521
    Are these Cassandras right? Are we headed for the Stuff of Nightmares?

    Life looks so normal it’s hard to believe. But I’m not immune to Normalcy Bias
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,925

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson is asked if he has any advice for British people struggling with soaring energy bills

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"


    http://trib.al/E1lM4zH https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1565302383651045376/video/1

    An allegory for his entire fucking time in office...

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"

    'Yer on your own folks...I couldn't give a toss' sums up what BJ thinks.
    His Government gave the largest monetary support package direct to the public than any other Government in history.

    How does that equate with your "dont give a toss" comment?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,341
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Nah, you’re getting him wrong, and not paying enough attention to testimony from those that have known him best. He’s bright enough to be able to (or to think that he is) wing those roles with the minimum of preparation or application, then he landed in the one job that you can’t do that way, and got found out.

    There’s a difference between being busy, and making a real effort.
    We will have to disagree

    I actually believe he was a pretty good prime minister, given an unbelievably difficult hand to play. For a start he won a majority and therefore got Brexit done: winning is a vital part of politics

    He then faced a global pandemic. He made errors there - masks, borders, too many boffins - but he also achieved notable successes: vaccines, resisting lockdown 4

    He handled Ukraine so well he is now a Ukrainian national hero

    That’s not bad. Remoaners will never accept it, because they loathe him irrationally, but his CV is quite decent

    He was brought down by personal quirks and flaws, not inability. He’s arrogant and thought the rules didn’t apply to him, he’s a libertine so he let the staff play

    That’s not a disagreement but an attempt to deflect the argument into a different field altogether.

    Whether he was a good or bad PM will be debated endlessly, and we certainly do disagree. But that’s a different matter entirely from whether he applies himself diligently and properly to the work in front of him. Like Nick, I have spent some time with him both publicly and privately and maintain that he may have been busy but is nevertheless lazy - indeed lazy in both the specific and wider meanings of the term - and becoming PM showed him up horribly; just as many of those who has worked closely with him over many years prior said that it would.
    The debate grows boring. Perhaps we just disagree on the meaning of the word “lazy”

    🤷‍♂️
    “Lazy” is an unhelpful term here.

    Johnson is intelligent and charming. He can get by without too much effort… so he does. Because there is always something more interesting than chasing incremental improvement.

    He’s not lazy. He coasts.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876

    Andy_JS said:

    "Russian oil chief Maganov dies in 'fall from hospital window'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62750584

    The Russians aren't even trying to be original anymore. The amount of 'fell out of a window' accidents in Russia is so high, I wonder whether it would be motoring deaths.
    Maybe they need a window tax, to cause people to brick them up. Too many deaths otherwise.
    OT

    I recently watched the TV version of "accidental death of an anarchist" on old Channel 4, laughed so much. This included people falling out of windows suspiciously, (among other things).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,003

    Andy_JS said:

    "Russian oil chief Maganov dies in 'fall from hospital window'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62750584

    Russia has 84 words for defenestration.
    The policeman guarding the scene flicks away the butt of his cigarette… and causes another ammunition dump to explode.

    “You can bet on Lucky Strike!”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521
    Jesus. It’s endless. “Next winter will be worse than this coming winter”

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/01/energy-crisis-uk-households-worst-hit-in-western-europe-finds-imf
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,130
    Leon said:

    Jesus. It’s endless. “Next winter will be worse than this coming winter”

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/01/energy-crisis-uk-households-worst-hit-in-western-europe-finds-imf

    its ok because everyone will die this winter so nobody left by the following one
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613

    Andy_JS said:

    "Russian oil chief Maganov dies in 'fall from hospital window'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62750584

    Russia has 84 words for defenestration.
    The policeman guarding the scene flicks away the butt of his cigarette… and causes another ammunition dump to explode.

    “You can bet on Lucky Strike!”
    He was a bit like SeanT, everything around him was banged.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521

    Leon said:

    Jesus. It’s endless. “Next winter will be worse than this coming winter”

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/01/energy-crisis-uk-households-worst-hit-in-western-europe-finds-imf

    its ok because everyone will die this winter so nobody left by the following one
    That’s a pretty good summary

    I’m a cheerful sort, generally, but if all these predictions come half-true we are more fucked than a teen sub on Fetlife
  • Scott_xP said:

    WTF?

    One senior aide to @trussliz tells me her approach to foreign policy will be “geoliberalism”
    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1565294882742231042

    Maybe that will be a new Trussism? Starting her own philosophy early?

    Geolibertarianism has a lot going for it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geolibertarianism
    Geoliberalism is not quite the same as geolibertarianism, though, and seems to depend on Nicolaus Tideman (who invented his own AV system) who spent a year at Buckingham, so if you want to check the CVs of Truss's aides to see who was there at the same time...

    Neither seems to have much to do with foreign policy though, so maybe it is a new Trussism where geo- means geography. More likely just something else dreamt up by an aide to be discarded later.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990
    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,485
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson is asked if he has any advice for British people struggling with soaring energy bills

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"


    http://trib.al/E1lM4zH https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1565302383651045376/video/1

    An allegory for his entire fucking time in office...

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"

    No we wont be in a much better state. This is just utter delusion. We will have a massive public debt and may well have had some kind of run on the £ and god alone knows what depth of terrible recession.

    I guess this is the kind of crap we can expect from Truss next week.

    Do you really want the prime minister to tell the truth? “We are completely fucked and there’s nothing anyone can do. Try and become an alcoholic”

    It has been established here that the greater part of everyone's elevated electricity bills (not gas) is going in the Government's pocket. That restored, a package of measures between industry and Government to spread/mitigate the costs of gas, and some good news stories about new power projects, the Government will be fine.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,003
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HMS PoW off to dry dock in Rosyth. WESTLANT 2022 in the bin. US 2nd Fleet, who moved their own training program around to accomodate her, not amused.

    Sort it out, Truss.

    Well known for her naval engineering skills ?

    I suppose the could just decide to scrap it. That would sort it out.
    Though it would leave us with a complement of overpriced and relatively underperforming F35s.
    Underperforming? The Israelis are using them to wander through the Iranian air defence without getting detected.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Well, I do know him a bit, and my impression is that he avoids hard work, because he's found that he can get by without it. If you have a fast mind (and he does) you can get maybe 70% of your tasks done in 20% of the time available, and if you're also charming and amusing (and he is), you can top that up to an apparent 110%.

    I empathise a bit - I have a quick mind too (minus the charisma), and it's quite seductive not to bother with the 100%, especially as I don't find that really putting in the effort gets me to 100% quality anyway - more like 85%. Not comparing myself to the PM, but maybe there's a similar process going on. I've got this week off work, and in theory I could be taking the time to really understand some complex issue. Instead, it's more fun just to chat here.
    Every person I know who knows him says he is lazy, dating back to his schooldays. He was then and he is now and I think we have all seen that these past few years.

    Of course he is also immensely gifted and I'm sure has no problem whatsoever knocking out (phnarr) 1,000 amusing words for a Spectator or DT audience which is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel but that's not to say there's no market for it. It is absolutely "real work" - it's just that it is the type that he has a natural affinity for.
    Re writing, it's much easier to knock off a general audience piece for a newspaper or magazine than it is to do a full scholarly paper. The former can be comment, it has far less detail to check, it is shorter, and so on. The latter has to be watertight and documented and all the bases and loopholes covered. It takes far, far longer to do. Indeed, they're so different that they almost need different brains - it's only the keyboard and screen that are in common. Being a Speccy columnist versus PM is like that. In the former, a CBA attitude is easy - you just pick a different topic or route. In the latter, it's fatal.

    That’s really not true. Otherwise all the people doing the hard, scholarly papers would be knocking out easy columns for £300,000 a year. They aren’t, because it is in fact difficult. Few have the skill. Those that do are therefore well rewarded

    One of these skills is concision. Making an interesting point in as few words as possible, while remaining memorable and vivid

    A lot of people who can technically “write” can’t do this, they write far too much and bore the reader
    Fair point: should have said: if one has the skills to do both kinds.

    But I've published both kinds, the former with some financial success. And for me at any rate the former takes vastly less actual work to do overall, difficult as it is to develop the approach and write the thing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Well, I do know him a bit, and my impression is that he avoids hard work, because he's found that he can get by without it. If you have a fast mind (and he does) you can get maybe 70% of your tasks done in 20% of the time available, and if you're also charming and amusing (and he is), you can top that up to an apparent 110%.

    I empathise a bit - I have a quick mind too (minus the charisma), and it's quite seductive not to bother with the 100%, especially as I don't find that really putting in the effort gets me to 100% quality anyway - more like 85%. Not comparing myself to the PM, but maybe there's a similar process going on. I've got this week off work, and in theory I could be taking the time to really understand some complex issue. Instead, it's more fun just to chat here.
    Every person I know who knows him says he is lazy, dating back to his schooldays. He was then and he is now and I think we have all seen that these past few years.

    Of course he is also immensely gifted and I'm sure has no problem whatsoever knocking out (phnarr) 1,000 amusing words for a Spectator or DT audience which is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel but that's not to say there's no market for it. It is absolutely "real work" - it's just that it is the type that he has a natural affinity for.
    Re writing, it's much easier to knock off a general audience piece for a newspaper or magazine than it is to do a full scholarly paper. The former can be comment, it has far less detail to check, it is shorter, and so on. The latter has to be watertight and documented and all the bases and loopholes covered. It takes far, far longer to do. Indeed, they're so different that they almost need different brains - it's only the keyboard and screen that are in common. Being a Speccy columnist versus PM is like that. In the former, a CBA attitude is easy - you just pick a different topic or route. In the latter, it's fatal.

    That’s really not true. Otherwise all the people doing the hard, scholarly papers would be knocking out easy columns for £300,000 a year. They aren’t, because it is in fact difficult. Few have the skill. Those that do are therefore well rewarded

    One of these skills is concision. Making an interesting point in as few words as possible, while remaining memorable and vivid

    A lot of people who can technically “write” can’t do this, they write far too much and bore the reader
    Fair point: should have said: if one has the skills to do both kinds.

    But I've published both kinds, the former with some financial success. And for me at any rate the former takes vastly less actual work to do overall, difficult as it is to develop the approach and write the thing.
    That’s sincerely impressive

    🥂

    Also a rare combination of skills
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,279
    edited September 1
    Just listened to Boris' energy speech.
    Then read Owen Jones on the same topic in the Guardian.
    They are in remarkable alignment on many points.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    Nigelb said:

    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html

    Gas prices tumble
    Roe v Wade overturned

    Biden's ratings surge.

    Had Gas prices stayed high he would have struggled.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,705
    Nigelb said:

    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html

    Disagree, about 35 million will partake in the GOP primary. The venn diagram for those primary voters will be a circle wholly contained within the 26% identified in the poll.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194

    Leon said:

    Jesus. It’s endless. “Next winter will be worse than this coming winter”

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/01/energy-crisis-uk-households-worst-hit-in-western-europe-finds-imf

    its ok because everyone will die this winter so nobody left by the following one
    Which helps in a perverse way as it is a form of demand destruction. It will reduce the demand for energy so if the supply remains static prices fall for those who remain as it is unlikley most will die.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,705
    dixiedean said:

    Just listened to Boris' energy speech.
    Then read Owen Jones on the same topic in the Guardian.
    They are in remarkable alignment on many points.

    Lol because it's so blindingly obvious what broadly needs to be done. I think almost everyone will be in agreement, except perhaps... worringly.... Liz Truss o_O !
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,964
    edited September 1
    Good morning from a sunny NYC.

    Johnson will play the long game. He knows like most of us on here that Truss is f*cking useless.

    Tories polling 25% or less within 12 months could be a catalyst for his return within this Parliament but most likely he will return as leader after the Tories get routed at next GE.

    Here is the US, the Biden/Dems fightback continues - Dems value to retain the House.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613
    edited September 1
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus. It’s endless. “Next winter will be worse than this coming winter”

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/01/energy-crisis-uk-households-worst-hit-in-western-europe-finds-imf

    its ok because everyone will die this winter so nobody left by the following one
    Which helps in a perverse way as it is a form of demand destruction. It will reduce the demand for energy so if the supply remains static prices fall for those who remain as it is unlikley most will die.
    But won't there be a spike in demand as all the crems work overtime?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,739
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson is asked if he has any advice for British people struggling with soaring energy bills

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"


    http://trib.al/E1lM4zH https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1565302383651045376/video/1

    An allegory for his entire fucking time in office...

    "I know it's going to be tough, I'm sorry it's going to be tough," he says, "but once we're through it, we'll be in a much, much better state"

    Except perhaps for the bit at the end?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,739
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Nah, you’re getting him wrong, and not paying enough attention to testimony from those that have known him best. He’s bright enough to be able to (or to think that he is) wing those roles with the minimum of preparation or application, then he landed in the one job that you can’t do that way, and got found out.

    There’s a difference between being busy, and making a real effort.
    We will have to disagree

    I actually believe he was a pretty good prime minister, given an unbelievably difficult hand to play. For a start he won a majority and therefore got Brexit done: winning is a vital part of politics

    He then faced a global pandemic. He made errors there - masks, borders, too many boffins - but he also achieved notable successes: vaccines, resisting lockdown 4

    He handled Ukraine so well he is now a Ukrainian national hero

    That’s not bad. Remoaners will never accept it, because they loathe him irrationally, but his CV is quite decent

    He was brought down by personal quirks and flaws, not inability. He’s arrogant and thought the rules didn’t apply to him, he’s a libertine so he let the staff play

    That’s not a disagreement but an attempt to deflect the argument into a different field altogether.

    Whether he was a good or bad PM will be debated endlessly, and we certainly do disagree. But that’s a different matter entirely from whether he applies himself diligently and properly to the work in front of him. Like Nick, I have spent some time with him both publicly and privately and maintain that he may have been busy but is nevertheless lazy - indeed lazy in both the specific and wider meanings of the term - and becoming PM showed him up horribly; just as many of those who has worked closely with him over many years prior said that it would.
    The debate grows boring. Perhaps we just disagree on the meaning of the word “lazy”

    🤷‍♂️
    One definition might be someone who can’t stick with seeing anything through because they get bored so easily?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,003
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html

    Gas prices tumble
    Roe v Wade overturned

    Biden's ratings surge.

    Had Gas prices stayed high he would have struggled.
    And nice profits for the US companies exporting LNG. Which will grow over time.

  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,130
    Whilst I do not really know if Boris is "lazy" other than to ask myself - can you really get to be PM and alos write a load of books /go to Eton on a scholoraship if you are "lazy" ?

    I also think its ironic that this discussion is on a forum like this where if we are honest , regular posters are probably "lazy" themselves ,if "lazy" is defined as only doing stuff you find fun (as Nick P alluded to below) . I know I can be "lazy" and its in those moments that I do things like post on here ,play online chess , watch a youtube video about stealth camping etc .

    I think it shows that most people who post on here like to judge others and lack self awareness
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,003
    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just listened to Boris' energy speech.
    Then read Owen Jones on the same topic in the Guardian.
    They are in remarkable alignment on many points.

    Lol because it's so blindingly obvious what broadly needs to be done. I think almost everyone will be in agreement, except perhaps... worringly.... Liz Truss o_O !
    Many, many people advocated a move away from an oil & gas economy to renewables/nuclear to disconnect our economy from the lunacy of the despots and loonies who control much of it.

    It is worth it, even without Global Warming.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,234
    tlg86 said:

    PFT:

    Shamima Begum was born and raised in Tower Hamlets. She's as British as I am.

    Regardless of the legal niceties, I have no doubt that had Begum been white, and born to white British parents, the powers that be wouldn't have been desperately flailing around to find a way of denying or removing her British citizenship.

    Perhaps not quite the same, but these nice white middle class parents were met with the full force of the law:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-48676894

    Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Letts

    On 18 August 2019 it was reported that the British government had revoked Letts' British citizenship. However, the Home Office declined to comment on the case.[38] In response, Canadian Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale described the move as a "unilateral action to off-load [the UK's consular] responsibilities," leaving Canada responsible for further diplomatic assistance for Letts.[39]
    I feel on this issue theres a lot of mixing what people feel should be the case with what is the case.

    Do I feel a minister should be able to deprive someone of citizenship in this manner, however horrible? No. Is it diplomatically dodgy? Yes. But is it legal? It seems that it probably is.

    So really a focus on if it seems right or wrong irrespective of legalities makes sense, except where people conflate the moral outrage with a legal argument.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,608
    Dura_Ace said:

    HMS PoW off to dry dock in Rosyth. WESTLANT 2022 in the bin. US 2nd Fleet, who moved their own training program around to accomodate her, not amused.

    Sort it out, Truss.

    Still feels to me like these ships are a phenomenal waste of money. Something like £3bn.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Whilst I do not really know if Boris is "lazy" other than to ask myself - can you really get to be PM and alos write a load of books /go to Eton on a scholoraship if you are "lazy" ?

    I also think its ironic that this discussion is on a forum like this where if we are honest , regular posters are probably "lazy" themselves ,if "lazy" is defined as only doing stuff you find fun (as Nick P alluded to below) . I know I can be "lazy" and its in those moments that I do things like post on here ,play online chess , watch a youtube video about stealth camping etc .

    I think it shows that most people who post on here like to judge others and lack self awareness

    yes. The prep/public school/Oxford system is or was bizarrely weighted towards the classics, for reasons rooted in 19th century snobbery, to the extent that if you have an aptitude for translating greek on sight, and go to the right prep school, you can absolutely cruise through all the scholarships in the world with virtually no work at all. as to boris's books, they strike me as lazy, ill researched and lightweight, and as easily churned out as I have just churned out this paragraph.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,234
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Nah, you’re getting him wrong, and not paying enough attention to testimony from those that have known him best. He’s bright enough to be able to (or to think that he is) wing those roles with the minimum of preparation or application, then he landed in the one job that you can’t do that way, and got found out.

    There’s a difference between being busy, and making a real effort.
    We will have to disagree

    I actually believe he was a pretty good prime minister, given an unbelievably difficult hand to play. For a start he won a majority and therefore got Brexit done: winning is a vital part of politics

    He then faced a global pandemic. He made errors there - masks, borders, too many boffins - but he also achieved notable successes: vaccines, resisting lockdown 4

    He handled Ukraine so well he is now a Ukrainian national hero

    That’s not bad. Remoaners will never accept it, because they loathe him irrationally, but his CV is quite decent

    He was brought down by personal quirks and flaws, not inability. He’s arrogant and thought the rules didn’t apply to him, he’s a libertine so he let the staff play

    I take a different assessment of his achievements, naturally, but I do actually agree he had the ability to be a good PM. He's not obviously stupid, he's flexible, can be inspiring and made some good calls.

    It's his application not ability that is the core issue, ultimately coming down as you note to personal arrogance leading to not caring about things like professional standards.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,485
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html

    Gas prices tumble
    Roe v Wade overturned

    Biden's ratings surge.

    Had Gas prices stayed high he would have struggled.
    Do you mean gas as in petrol? Or os the American price for gas as in gas a lot lower too?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,521
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Nah, you’re getting him wrong, and not paying enough attention to testimony from those that have known him best. He’s bright enough to be able to (or to think that he is) wing those roles with the minimum of preparation or application, then he landed in the one job that you can’t do that way, and got found out.

    There’s a difference between being busy, and making a real effort.
    We will have to disagree

    I actually believe he was a pretty good prime minister, given an unbelievably difficult hand to play. For a start he won a majority and therefore got Brexit done: winning is a vital part of politics

    He then faced a global pandemic. He made errors there - masks, borders, too many boffins - but he also achieved notable successes: vaccines, resisting lockdown 4

    He handled Ukraine so well he is now a Ukrainian national hero

    That’s not bad. Remoaners will never accept it, because they loathe him irrationally, but his CV is quite decent

    He was brought down by personal quirks and flaws, not inability. He’s arrogant and thought the rules didn’t apply to him, he’s a libertine so he let the staff play

    That’s not a disagreement but an attempt to deflect the argument into a different field altogether.

    Whether he was a good or bad PM will be debated endlessly, and we certainly do disagree. But that’s a different matter entirely from whether he applies himself diligently and properly to the work in front of him. Like Nick, I have spent some time with him both publicly and privately and maintain that he may have been busy but is nevertheless lazy - indeed lazy in both the specific and wider meanings of the term - and becoming PM showed him up horribly; just as many of those who has worked closely with him over many years prior said that it would.
    The debate grows boring. Perhaps we just disagree on the meaning of the word “lazy”

    🤷‍♂️
    One definition might be someone who can’t stick with seeing anything through because they get bored so easily?
    That's a really BAD definition of "lazy" and if it is your definition it explains why we are disagreeing

    But I'm with @TOPPING. This debate has run its course. Let us turn to the impending apocalypse, it is at least interesting*

    *depending on your definition of "interesting"
  • The idea of Boris returning as PM is up there with perennial betting on David Miliband to be next Labour Leader etc

    Its simply not happening. He's history.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,109
    IanB2 said:

    Except perhaps for the bit at the end?

    Well, it seemed axiomatic that would be in a batter state when BoZo was no longer PM than when he was, but of course, Truss...
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,130
    How will Boris get back from Balmoral ? Presumably fly up but wont the new PM get to fly back .Also how will the new PM get up to Balmoral? by car? long drive
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,234
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    I think he's motivated when something grips him, usually a big crusade like Brexit, the vaccination campaign or the war in Ukraine. But when it's something complex, tedious and involving tradeoffs and shades of grey, like 90% of government, he mostly loses interest.

    That would be fine if he had built a competent team to attend to the detailed business of government, but he didn't. He hired the crank Dominic Cummings instead.
    Yes I agree with that. And yes one of his big failings was his inability to recruit and retain a talented team, in Number 10, to sweat the small stuff

    It’s a bit of a mystery, because he was good at it as Mayor. And he can definitely spot talent - eg Kate Bingham on vaccines
    Yes, but in previous roles such as the Mayor, his team were advisors who he could hire and fire pretty much at will, and presented no threat to him since they operated in the administrative rather than political world.

    That ended when he had to pick a cabinet and run into the consequences of his own paranoia, insecurity and history of disloyalty towards previous party leaders. He should have picked a cabinet of the the most talented and trusted them to get on with stuff, but didn’t, for political reasons that don’t need spelling out. So we got Williamson, JRM, Dorries and the rest, instead.
    Williamson was sacked and JRM and Dorries only added to the Cabinet quite late.

    So really it could have been worse - imagine a PM who picked them as first choice!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,984

    How will Boris get back from Balmoral ? Presumably fly up but wont the new PM get to fly back .Also how will the new PM get up to Balmoral? by car? long drive

    Does the plane only have one seat or something?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,234

    The idea of Boris returning as PM is up there with perennial betting on David Miliband to be next Labour Leader etc

    Its simply not happening. He's history.

    His fans are praying for the Tories to lose the next GE so they can claim it was because of his ousting. (It never occurs to them to ask why Tory MPs lost faith in him so quickly, which is highly irregular).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,739
    edited September 1

    Whilst I do not really know if Boris is "lazy" other than to ask myself - can you really get to be PM and alos write a load of books /go to Eton on a scholoraship if you are "lazy" ?

    I also think its ironic that this discussion is on a forum like this where if we are honest , regular posters are probably "lazy" themselves ,if "lazy" is defined as only doing stuff you find fun (as Nick P alluded to below) . I know I can be "lazy" and its in those moments that I do things like post on here ,play online chess , watch a youtube video about stealth camping etc .

    I think it shows that most people who post on here like to judge others and lack self awareness

    To move from generalities to a specific, it was observed by someone close to the PM shortly after the Paterson fiasco that most previous PMs would have game-tested the possible scenarios with their advisors before deciding how to proceed - yet Johnson reportedly couldn’t be bothered. Similarly with partygate - he didn’t do the asking, ‘what if this comes out?’, ‘what if this happens?’ that most top politicians across the world would consider the bread and butter of pre-preparation that comes with the job.

    He had got off so often with the ‘dog ate my homework’ excuse that he never bothered to work out what he would do if the teacher discovered he didn’t have a dog.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Judging by the comments on here, the site is going very long of the Democrats ahead of November. Interesting.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,109

    How will Boris get back from Balmoral ? Presumably fly up but wont the new PM get to fly back .Also how will the new PM get up to Balmoral? by car? long drive

    it was suggested that could not be on the same plane in case of an accident, but why not?

    Only one of them is PM at any one time.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,109
    Translation: Truss is electoral suicide. https://twitter.com/fifisyms/status/1565314715949072384/photo/1
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,756

    How will Boris get back from Balmoral ? Presumably fly up but wont the new PM get to fly back .Also how will the new PM get up to Balmoral? by car? long drive

    I imagine they'll fly to Aberdeen. An hour or so by car (albeit not a great road).

    Shame there's no train to Ballater any more.

    Perhaps he could cycle there with the peleton on Sunday?
    https://www.tourofbritain.co.uk/stages/stage-one/


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,109
    British manufacturing production and new orders collapsed in August, falling by the most in two years amid fears about a worsening economy https://trib.al/QHrCEdb
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,705
    edited September 1

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html

    Gas prices tumble
    Roe v Wade overturned

    Biden's ratings surge.

    Had Gas prices stayed high he would have struggled.
    Do you mean gas as in petrol? Or os the American price for gas as in gas a lot lower too?
    Luckily for Biden with large scale US fracking and the house of Saud keeping their oppression to globally unloved Yemen the USA is getting both cheap gas and cheap gas.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,234
    edited September 1

    Whilst I do not really know if Boris is "lazy" other than to ask myself - can you really get to be PM and alos write a load of books /go to Eton on a scholoraship if you are "lazy" ?

    People are not 100% lazy or not lazy, it's a spectrum. You cant be lazy at seeking to be PM if you want to achieve it, but you could easily be lazy at being PM.

    That's implicitly accepted of any leader who is said to be more a campaigner than a governor ie they are more suited to running than leading.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,739

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html

    Gas prices tumble
    Roe v Wade overturned

    Biden's ratings surge.

    Had Gas prices stayed high he would have struggled.
    Do you mean gas as in petrol? Or os the American price for gas as in gas a lot lower too?
    On the forecourts it has nudged below $4 per US gallon if you shop about, and radio stations report the latest prices daily.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,859
    RobD said:

    How will Boris get back from Balmoral ? Presumably fly up but wont the new PM get to fly back .Also how will the new PM get up to Balmoral? by car? long drive

    Does the plane only have one seat or something?
    Shall we all have a sweepstake on the methods of transport?

    My guess would be that whoever is the PM takes a government plane, and the non-PM takes a train, perhaps a Royal special.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,130
    IanB2 said:

    Whilst I do not really know if Boris is "lazy" other than to ask myself - can you really get to be PM and alos write a load of books /go to Eton on a scholoraship if you are "lazy" ?

    I also think its ironic that this discussion is on a forum like this where if we are honest , regular posters are probably "lazy" themselves ,if "lazy" is defined as only doing stuff you find fun (as Nick P alluded to below) . I know I can be "lazy" and its in those moments that I do things like post on here ,play online chess , watch a youtube video about stealth camping etc .

    I think it shows that most people who post on here like to judge others and lack self awareness

    To move from generalities to a specific, it was observed by someone close to the PM shortly after the Paterson fiasco that most previous PMs would have game-tested the possible scenarios with their advisors before deciding how to proceed - yet Johnson reportedly couldn’t be bothered. Similarly with partygate - he didn’t do the asking, ‘what if this comes out?’, ‘what if this happens?’ that most top politicians across the world would consider the bread and butter of pre-preparation that comes with the job.

    He had got off so often with the ‘dog ate my homework’ excuse that he never bothered to work out what he would do if the teacher discovered he didn’t have a dog.
    I think thats more deciding what is important to spend time on as PM and not. He obviously is not lazy in the sense of doing F all with his day - i mean he was (bizarrely perhaps ) photographed on a police raid at 6 in the morning the other day - I think most PMs would have told their advisors to F off if they suggested he attend a police raid at 6 in the morning
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990
    edited September 1

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HMS PoW off to dry dock in Rosyth. WESTLANT 2022 in the bin. US 2nd Fleet, who moved their own training program around to accomodate her, not amused.

    Sort it out, Truss.

    Well known for her naval engineering skills ?

    I suppose the could just decide to scrap it. That would sort it out.
    Though it would leave us with a complement of overpriced and relatively underperforming F35s.
    Underperforming? The Israelis are using them to wander through the Iranian air defence without getting detected.
    The F35B, which we ordered because we couldn't afford catapults, is more expensive, shorter range and has a reduced payload compared to the other models.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,739
    edited September 1
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Nah, you’re getting him wrong, and not paying enough attention to testimony from those that have known him best. He’s bright enough to be able to (or to think that he is) wing those roles with the minimum of preparation or application, then he landed in the one job that you can’t do that way, and got found out.

    There’s a difference between being busy, and making a real effort.
    We will have to disagree

    I actually believe he was a pretty good prime minister, given an unbelievably difficult hand to play. For a start he won a majority and therefore got Brexit done: winning is a vital part of politics

    He then faced a global pandemic. He made errors there - masks, borders, too many boffins - but he also achieved notable successes: vaccines, resisting lockdown 4

    He handled Ukraine so well he is now a Ukrainian national hero

    That’s not bad. Remoaners will never accept it, because they loathe him irrationally, but his CV is quite decent

    He was brought down by personal quirks and flaws, not inability. He’s arrogant and thought the rules didn’t apply to him, he’s a libertine so he let the staff play

    That’s not a disagreement but an attempt to deflect the argument into a different field altogether.

    Whether he was a good or bad PM will be debated endlessly, and we certainly do disagree. But that’s a different matter entirely from whether he applies himself diligently and properly to the work in front of him. Like Nick, I have spent some time with him both publicly and privately and maintain that he may have been busy but is nevertheless lazy - indeed lazy in both the specific and wider meanings of the term - and becoming PM showed him up horribly; just as many of those who has worked closely with him over many years prior said that it would.
    The debate grows boring. Perhaps we just disagree on the meaning of the word “lazy”

    🤷‍♂️
    One definition might be someone who can’t stick with seeing anything through because they get bored so easily?
    That's a really BAD definition of "lazy" and if it is your definition it explains why we are disagreeing

    But I'm with @TOPPING. This debate has run its course. Let us turn to the impending apocalypse, it is at least interesting*

    *depending on your definition of "interesting"
    Another might be insufficient application to discern the difference between a debating point and a definition? ;)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,485
    edited September 1
    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html

    Gas prices tumble
    Roe v Wade overturned

    Biden's ratings surge.

    Had Gas prices stayed high he would have struggled.
    Do you mean gas as in petrol? Or os the American price for gas as in gas a lot lower too?
    Luckily for Biden with large scale US fracking and the house of Saud keeping their oppression to globally unloved Yemen the USA is getting both cheap gas and cheap gas.
    But isn't the wholesale price of gas just that? We're told that if the North Sea produces more, it'll just be the same price as the old (albeit reduced a tad in totality). Nobody is obliged to explain, I can dmor if necessary.
  • Scott_xP said:
    In that case, Truss is a symptom of a wider malaise. The Conservative Party have decided to please themselves, not the wider electorate.

    That rarely ends well.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Scott_xP said:
    Data today showed government policy is making voters poorer at the fastest rate in 100 years. Presumably that includes all previous past conflicts, ruling out 'Ukraine' as an excuse.

    Those are Rishi Sunak's policies. Those are Boris Johnson's policies. Not Liz Truss's policies.

    Now you and others are criticising her for not doing the same? for daring to do something different?

    who is the real lunatic here?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,859
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html

    Gas prices tumble
    Roe v Wade overturned

    Biden's ratings surge.

    Had Gas prices stayed high he would have struggled.
    Do you mean gas as in petrol? Or os the American price for gas as in gas a lot lower too?
    On the forecourts it has nudged below $4 per US gallon if you shop about, and radio stations report the latest prices daily.
    Petrol price out here dropped 15% today, where it’s revised monthly based on the local input price. It dropped 10% last month too, so the news is getting better.

    $5 ‘gas’ in the US was totemic, especially as it happened in July, just as everyone there was packing up for the summer road trip.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,739
    MISTY said:

    Judging by the comments on here, the site is going very long of the Democrats ahead of November. Interesting.

    There was a commentator on NPR yesterday arguing that the Dems have the momentum and there are indicators such as the unprecedented level of registrations (heavily weighted towards women) that suggest the Dems may be in for a surge.

    I passed a polling station open yesterday which I guess was for advance voting for primaries. Decorated generously with US flags and a few “vote here” posters, but our big black pointy hand showing the way has yet to reach the US.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613
    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Data today showed government policy is making voters poorer at the fastest rate in 100 years. Presumably that includes all previous past conflicts, ruling out 'Ukraine' as an excuse.

    Those are Rishi Sunak's policies. Those are Boris Johnson's policies. Not Liz Truss's policies.

    Now you and others are criticising her for not doing the same? for daring to do something different?

    who is the real lunatic here?
    The person who has forgotten she's in cabinet with them so has approved of those policies?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,416
    Scott_xP said:

    How will Boris get back from Balmoral ? Presumably fly up but wont the new PM get to fly back .Also how will the new PM get up to Balmoral? by car? long drive

    it was suggested that could not be on the same plane in case of an accident, but why not?
    We could never be that lucky.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why are we devoting an entire thread to discussing a soon to be ex PM who got booted from office for being a lying toad ?
    I'd rather bring back @Leon 's bloody pictures.

    Off for lunch, but here's a parting gift.

    Biden's Approval Rating Surges After Hitting Low Mark In July,
    Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds;
    Half Of Americans Say Trump Should Be Prosecuted On Criminal
    Charges Over His Handling Of Classified Documents
    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3854
    ...More than three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) say they are following the news about the removal of classified documents from former President Donald Trump's Florida home either very closely (38 percent) or somewhat closely (38 percent), while 24 percent say they are either following it not so closely (11 percent) or not closely at all (13 percent).

    Americans 59 - 26 percent think former President Trump acted inappropriately...


    Lay the "great greased watermelon" for the Republican nomination.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/facts-caught-donald-trump-documents.html

    Disagree, about 35 million will partake in the GOP primary. The venn diagram for those primary voters will be a circle wholly contained within the 26% identified in the poll.
    Well, that's what makes a market.

    My impression, FWIW, is that while MAGA hasn't gone out of fashion on the right, Trump is rather less fashionable with MAGA. Remarkably, given all that's gone before without apparent consequence, he's now become something of an embarrassment.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Scott_xP said:
    In that case, Truss is a symptom of a wider malaise. The Conservative Party have decided to please themselves, not the wider electorate.

    That rarely ends well.
    Under Johnson and Sunak the conservative party is making people poorer at the fastest rate in a century, we learned today.

    You are blaming Truss for wanting to veer away from their policies? LOL
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917
    edited September 1
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Do we really think he cares enough to fight for a comeback, or does he just want to make quick money by writing columns and doing talks at fancy dinners? I mean, a comeback sounds like hard work, and we know Johnson hates hard work.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns as an MP rather than get kicked out by the electorate, that he'll become the Tory King over the Water, and he'll just make money doing the kind of stuff all ex PMs do.

    I dunno where people get the idea “Boris hates hard work”

    In his time he’s been a successful foreign correspondent, editor of the Spectator, mayor of London, Brexit campaigner, Commons MP, Cabinet Minister, and Prime Minister

    He’s also been a novelist, columnist and TV presenter. And he doesn’t slack when it comes to the laydeez

    You can dodge tasks in life, to an extent, but you can’t do all that without some real graft

    Boris’ “problem” is that he is very bright so he can make all this seem bumblingly effortless: so that is what people perceive
    Well, I do know him a bit, and my impression is that he avoids hard work, because he's found that he can get by without it. If you have a fast mind (and he does) you can get maybe 70% of your tasks done in 20% of the time available, and if you're also charming and amusing (and he is), you can top that up to an apparent 110%.

    I empathise a bit - I have a quick mind too (minus the charisma), and it's quite seductive not to bother with the 100%, especially as I don't find that really putting in the effort gets me to 100% quality anyway - more like 85%. Not comparing myself to the PM, but maybe there's a similar process going on. I've got this week off work, and in theory I could be taking the time to really understand some complex issue. Instead, it's more fun just to chat here.
    Every person I know who knows him says he is lazy, dating back to his schooldays. He was then and he is now and I think we have all seen that these past few years.

    Of course he is also immensely gifted and I'm sure has no problem whatsoever knocking out (phnarr) 1,000 amusing words for a Spectator or DT audience which is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel but that's not to say there's no market for it. It is absolutely "real work" - it's just that it is the type that he has a natural affinity for.
    I would challenge "immensely gifted". If Johnson was immensely gifted he would be better at his actual job of prime minister. He wouldn't have botched his Brexit deal (implicitly accepted by him). There would have been a less deadly and economically damaging COVID response. He would have some kind of action plan for the fuel/cost of living crisis. An immensely gifted prime minister might still be in post.
    Not really, he is immensely gifted as are Messi, Adele and Federer. Only Federer would make a legendary tennis player, only Adele as a singer, only Messi as a footballer, and only Boris as an entertaining election winner offering cakeism. None of them would make good prime ministers, despite being immensely gifted. Those who are particularly gifted do of course succeed more often than not in roles that suit their talents, but may be worse off than a hardworking Joe Average in other roles that are not suited to them as life has come too easy.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,474
    On Boris. If you're a lying toad, I can't see that it matters much whether you're lazy or industrious, a genius or a plodder. You're still a lying toad.
This discussion has been closed.