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The Truss view of “British Workers” could be an electoral liability – politicalbetting.com

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Research from Ipsos shows 2 in 3 of Brits think the Government are not doing enough to help people through the cost of living crisis, including 6 in 10 who voted for the Conservatives in 2019

    More: https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/two-thirds-say-government-not-providing-enough-support-cost https://twitter.com/TrinhIpsosUK/status/1559867411293151232/photo/1

    I think the question is phrased wrongly. I don't want the Government to 'help me through the col crisis', though if I need such help I will accept it reluctantly. I want the Government to drive down the cost of living. That is quite different to giving me some of my own money back to make things a bit easier until we have to pay the inevitable bill. One has a positive long term impact, one has a negative one. I want to hear every week, potentially every day, of an initiative that the Government is taking that will drive down the col, on energy yes, but on other things too.

    Actions that would qualify: bringing new sources of energy on board and incentivising and enabling domestic suppliers to create more energy. Longer term projects to exploit UK oil, gas, and potentially coal, also local incinerator schemes revisited and greenlit. Longer term projects to create more renewables supply (tidal), and breaking ground on more power storage projects to even out supply. Re-open our gas storage within weeks not years. Temporary refitting of gas power stations to use more readily available fuels (someone here mentioned this yesterday). Bringing Iranian oil supply back on stream.

    New trade deals to drive down the price of food. An end to financial and other incentives for farmers to leave the industry, and/or 'rewild'.

    I would also look for a speedy exit to the Ukraine conflict, and the return of Russia to the European gas market, but I appreciate that that is unlikely politically.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Some advice from a friend, just received


    "If you find anything dull, irksome or depressing, just add the phrase "erooni" to the end, and it livens it up"

    So you haven't got cancer, you've got cancerooooni! which is much better. Almost a positive, really

    OK, back to work

    As in 'raineroooni stopped play at Lords'.

    Ishmailerooni being a dick again? Yep, I like it. :D
    Tell us again about the drought of 1976. Go on. It changes just everything.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376

    Pulpstar said:

    If gas prices are so terrible what is the possibility for using alternative energy sources? The oil price has started coming down again. Now $86 for WTI crude.

    We blew up all our oil fired power stations.
    Yes but London got a new art gallery, so there's that.
    https://www.tate.org.uk/visit/tate-modern
    We could always burn the art.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,393
    Ironic that Thames Water imposes a hosepipe ban on the same day as heavy rain showers.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,279
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Some advice from a friend, just received


    "If you find anything dull, irksome or depressing, just add the phrase "erooni" to the end, and it livens it up"

    So you haven't got cancer, you've got cancerooooni! which is much better. Almost a positive, really

    OK, back to work

    As in 'raineroooni stopped play at Lords'.

    And, sadly, that situation continues. However in a remarkable non sequitur the BBC commentator has posted this 'You can get your live cricket fix with updates from The Hundred at Trent Bridge.

    Who, on earth among the spectators at Lord's thinks the 100 (otherwise known as the 16.4) has anything to do with live cricket?
  • kinabalu said:

    Sadly there's an exception -

    Donald Trumperooni

    Still sounds grim

    Disagreed.

    Donald Trump is an ominous treasonous traitor that violently attempted to overturn the election when he lost and is a threat to the American republic and to democracy itself.

    Donald Trumperooni is treating him with the contempt and ridicule he so richly deserves.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,743
    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Maybe it's a a UFOROONI.

  • Andy_JS said:

    Former Peterborough councillor, first elected in 1954, has died at the age of 92. Charles Swift OBE.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-62572929

    He seemed impossibly long-serving when I met him in what must have been about 1995.

    Wouldn't be allowed to call your independent party "Labouring for North Ward" now...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,955
    Andy_JS said:

    Ironic that Thames Water imposes a hosepipe ban on the same day as heavy rain showers.

    I'd say its convenient: much better to have a hosepipe ban on days when they aren't needed.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    kinabalu said:

    Sadly there's an exception -

    Donald Trumperooni

    Still sounds grim

    No, he sounds like a ridiculous clown. It works superbly
  • Andy_JS said:

    Ironic that Thames Water imposes a hosepipe ban on the same day as heavy rain showers.

    Unfortunately its not actually that ironic, it can actually be causative. Countries and regions afflicted by drought can be simultaneously afflicted by flooding too. You see that a lot in the tropics with droughted land and intermittent thunderstorms.

    The ground in drought conditions doesn't absorb heavy rain as well as wet ground normally does, so the water bounces off the ground and settles on the surface causing flash floods and runs off away into rivers etc rather than being absorbed where its needed.

    Sustained, light, drizzly rain is far better than intermittent, rare, heavy and thundery downpours, for ending a drought. It allows the land to become less hard and resistant to the rain and more accepting of it.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460

    The moral of the German tale is that economies can adapt with astonishing speed to external energy shocks under war-time conditions, but you have to let the price mechanism play its part through orderly demand destruction.

    My advice to Labour: send a team to Berlin and learn a thing or two from serious people.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/08/16/germany-surprise-success-story-energy-crisis-not-labour-has/

    A rare AEP column which isn’t insane.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Panic bells, it's red alert
    There's something here from somewhere else
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
    Good. If the people of NI vote to Leave then good riddance to them.

    But if they want to stick with us, they have to accept the decisions of the Westminster Parliament, whether that be Brexit or "legalised infanticide" or anything else Westminster democratically approves of that they dislike.
    As I said, you aren't an objective person to judge the constitutional issues. Westminster imposing things that damage a nation against that nation's voting wishes is unsustainable.

    I assume you cheer it on because you want to see the UK break apart.
    So just to be clear you're saying the UK should re-criminalise "infanticide" in Northern Ireland if that is what is agitating NI voters?

    Or is it only where NI's voting wishes match your own that this matters?

    If NI won't accept Westminster's supremacy then what's the point in even trying to maintain a union with them?
    As only a tiny minority of bigots in NI have those views, your straw man fails.
    One of the questions that was put to Truss today was about abortion to birth being allowed for conditions like Cleft Pallette etc. An opinion poll claims that 72% of NI voters oppose that law: https://care.org.uk/news/2020/06/new-poll-shows-majority-in-ni-opposed-to-abortion-to-birth-for-disabilities

    So that's considerably more opposition to what Westminster did than it is on anything else, if you're going on polls like that.

    I'm glad Westminster ignored the 72% that opinion poll found and I'm glad Truss reinforced that today too.
    Either Westminster has the power to legislate, or it doesn't, you can't cherrypick that bits you like and claim the rest is undemocratic.

    If NI voters want to be in a union with England etc then that means Westminster will sometimes make decisions you don't like. Truss explicitly said today in response to the abortion question that's part of being in a union. 👍

    EDIT: Here you go, as Truss said "that is what being a union is": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-62566833?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&Abortion law should apply across UK - Truss&2022-08-17T12:41:07.726Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:25fefc01-b582-4a14-aa75-1c700d53b591&pinned_post_asset_id=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&pinned_post_type=share
    I would note most MPs wanting to reverse that horrible abortion to birth law for disabilities are Tory. If Truss wants abortion on demand the party will be in open revolt, including those who backed her like Rees Mogg and Dorries.

    NI taking its own position on abortion is also no different to the position in the US Union now with each state taking its own line
    No difference to the utter dogshite that is the US position?

    Thank goodness Truss opposed that then and will be next Tory leader and not a loon obsessed with Medieval religion like you.
    I would point out the majority of Tory MPs also voted against permanent diy abortions by 172 to just 75 in favour. Only Labour and LD MPs got it through.

    Rather than being an extreme view within the party my view carries the largest support in the Conservative party which Truss better note

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/03/31/the-vote-on-pills-by-post-72-conservative-mps-voted-to-keep-abortions-at-home-and-175-voted-against/
    She noted it by telling people questioning abortion on demand to birth for things like fetal defect that was the will the UK Parliament on a conscious vote and she won't be changing it. No attempt to pander to the extreme views you have, even if your extreme views are regrettably common in the Conservative Party they're not coming through in this leadership contest.

    Good.
    They will again in the next backbench proposed amendment. Opposing abortion on demand is also not extreme, indeed the opposite
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    EROONI!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    Platty Joobs was funny because of its unnecessariness: we give nicknames like this to things which are commonplace, and the Platinum Jubilee was the opposite.

    “Crimbo” may be the oldest and worst offender.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,279
    edited August 2022

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    What language is this? Pray tell!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507
    IshmaelZ said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Some advice from a friend, just received


    "If you find anything dull, irksome or depressing, just add the phrase "erooni" to the end, and it livens it up"

    So you haven't got cancer, you've got cancerooooni! which is much better. Almost a positive, really

    OK, back to work

    As in 'raineroooni stopped play at Lords'.

    Ishmailerooni being a dick again? Yep, I like it. :D
    Tell us again about the drought of 1976. Go on. It changes just everything.
    No point - you are not interested in genuine debate about global weather patterns versus climate change. You exist only to try to on certain posters, hoping for a response. Life is too short.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
    Good. If the people of NI vote to Leave then good riddance to them.

    But if they want to stick with us, they have to accept the decisions of the Westminster Parliament, whether that be Brexit or "legalised infanticide" or anything else Westminster democratically approves of that they dislike.
    As I said, you aren't an objective person to judge the constitutional issues. Westminster imposing things that damage a nation against that nation's voting wishes is unsustainable.

    I assume you cheer it on because you want to see the UK break apart.
    So just to be clear you're saying the UK should re-criminalise "infanticide" in Northern Ireland if that is what is agitating NI voters?

    Or is it only where NI's voting wishes match your own that this matters?

    If NI won't accept Westminster's supremacy then what's the point in even trying to maintain a union with them?
    As only a tiny minority of bigots in NI have those views, your straw man fails.
    One of the questions that was put to Truss today was about abortion to birth being allowed for conditions like Cleft Pallette etc. An opinion poll claims that 72% of NI voters oppose that law: https://care.org.uk/news/2020/06/new-poll-shows-majority-in-ni-opposed-to-abortion-to-birth-for-disabilities

    So that's considerably more opposition to what Westminster did than it is on anything else, if you're going on polls like that.

    I'm glad Westminster ignored the 72% that opinion poll found and I'm glad Truss reinforced that today too.
    Either Westminster has the power to legislate, or it doesn't, you can't cherrypick that bits you like and claim the rest is undemocratic.

    If NI voters want to be in a union with England etc then that means Westminster will sometimes make decisions you don't like. Truss explicitly said today in response to the abortion question that's part of being in a union. 👍

    EDIT: Here you go, as Truss said "that is what being a union is": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-62566833?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&Abortion law should apply across UK - Truss&2022-08-17T12:41:07.726Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:25fefc01-b582-4a14-aa75-1c700d53b591&pinned_post_asset_id=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&pinned_post_type=share
    I would note most MPs wanting to reverse that horrible abortion to birth law for disabilities are Tory. If Truss wants abortion on demand the party will be in open revolt, including those who backed her like Rees Mogg and Dorries.

    NI taking its own position on abortion is also no different to the position in the US Union now with each state taking its own line
    No difference to the utter dogshite that is the US position?

    Thank goodness Truss opposed that then and will be next Tory leader and not a loon obsessed with Medieval religion like you.
    I would point out the majority of Tory MPs also voted against permanent diy abortions by 172 to just 75 in favour. Only Labour and LD MPs got it through.

    Rather than being an extreme view within the party my view carries the largest support in the Conservative party which Truss better note

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/03/31/the-vote-on-pills-by-post-72-conservative-mps-voted-to-keep-abortions-at-home-and-175-voted-against/
    She noted it by telling people questioning abortion on demand to birth for things like fetal defect that was the will the UK Parliament on a conscious vote and she won't be changing it. No attempt to pander to the extreme views you have, even if your extreme views are regrettably common in the Conservative Party they're not coming through in this leadership contest.

    Good.
    They will again in the next backbench proposed amendment. Opposing abortion on demand is also not extreme, indeed the opposite
    Thankfully since this is a conscience issue, you can't dismiss opposition party MPs from the numbers.

    May this never become a party partisan issue and may Parliament keep putting loons obsessed with "infanticide" back in their box.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Some advice from a friend, just received


    "If you find anything dull, irksome or depressing, just add the phrase "erooni" to the end, and it livens it up"

    So you haven't got cancer, you've got cancerooooni! which is much better. Almost a positive, really

    OK, back to work

    As in 'raineroooni stopped play at Lords'.

    Ishmailerooni being a dick again? Yep, I like it. :D
    Tell us again about the drought of 1976. Go on. It changes just everything.
    No point - you are not interested in genuine debate about global weather patterns versus climate change. You exist only to try to on certain posters, hoping for a response. Life is too short.
    Fail. Yebbut 1976 is about as intelligent as my grandma smoked 80 a day and lived to 140. You got told this on twitter by your own account and were hoping for a better outcome here.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    Until the alleged other 5 photos emerge, and preferably the negatives, I remain on the skeptical side of this. I've asked before, if this is from the alleged location, where are the hills?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,019
    carnforth said:

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    Platty Joobs was funny because of its unnecessariness: we give nicknames like this to things which are commonplace, and the Platinum Jubilee was the opposite.

    “Crimbo” may be the oldest and worst offender.
    How's yourself.

    Does my f*****g head in.
  • Here's a really good and interesting "do at home" experiment showing why flooding in a drought is possible.

    https://twitter.com/UniofReading/status/1557350976725581824
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
    Good. If the people of NI vote to Leave then good riddance to them.

    But if they want to stick with us, they have to accept the decisions of the Westminster Parliament, whether that be Brexit or "legalised infanticide" or anything else Westminster democratically approves of that they dislike.
    As I said, you aren't an objective person to judge the constitutional issues. Westminster imposing things that damage a nation against that nation's voting wishes is unsustainable.

    I assume you cheer it on because you want to see the UK break apart.
    So just to be clear you're saying the UK should re-criminalise "infanticide" in Northern Ireland if that is what is agitating NI voters?

    Or is it only where NI's voting wishes match your own that this matters?

    If NI won't accept Westminster's supremacy then what's the point in even trying to maintain a union with them?
    As only a tiny minority of bigots in NI have those views, your straw man fails.
    One of the questions that was put to Truss today was about abortion to birth being allowed for conditions like Cleft Pallette etc. An opinion poll claims that 72% of NI voters oppose that law: https://care.org.uk/news/2020/06/new-poll-shows-majority-in-ni-opposed-to-abortion-to-birth-for-disabilities

    So that's considerably more opposition to what Westminster did than it is on anything else, if you're going on polls like that.

    I'm glad Westminster ignored the 72% that opinion poll found and I'm glad Truss reinforced that today too.
    Either Westminster has the power to legislate, or it doesn't, you can't cherrypick that bits you like and claim the rest is undemocratic.

    If NI voters want to be in a union with England etc then that means Westminster will sometimes make decisions you don't like. Truss explicitly said today in response to the abortion question that's part of being in a union. 👍

    EDIT: Here you go, as Truss said "that is what being a union is": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-62566833?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&Abortion law should apply across UK - Truss&2022-08-17T12:41:07.726Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:25fefc01-b582-4a14-aa75-1c700d53b591&pinned_post_asset_id=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&pinned_post_type=share
    I would note most MPs wanting to reverse that horrible abortion to birth law for disabilities are Tory. If Truss wants abortion on demand the party will be in open revolt, including those who backed her like Rees Mogg and Dorries.

    NI taking its own position on abortion is also no different to the position in the US Union now with each state taking its own line
    No difference to the utter dogshite that is the US position?

    Thank goodness Truss opposed that then and will be next Tory leader and not a loon obsessed with Medieval religion like you.
    I would point out the majority of Tory MPs also voted against permanent diy abortions by 172 to just 75 in favour. Only Labour and LD MPs got it through.

    Rather than being an extreme view within the party my view carries the largest support in the Conservative party which Truss better note

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/03/31/the-vote-on-pills-by-post-72-conservative-mps-voted-to-keep-abortions-at-home-and-175-voted-against/
    She noted it by telling people questioning abortion on demand to birth for things like fetal defect that was the will the UK Parliament on a conscious vote and she won't be changing it. No attempt to pander to the extreme views you have, even if your extreme views are regrettably common in the Conservative Party they're not coming through in this leadership contest.

    Good.
    They will again in the next backbench proposed amendment. Opposing abortion on demand is also not extreme, indeed the opposite
    Thankfully since this is a conscience issue, you can't dismiss opposition party MPs from the numbers.

    May this never become a party partisan issue and may Parliament keep putting loons obsessed with "infanticide" back in their box.
    It is not infanticide to oppose abortion on demand up until birth for disabled babies and DIY abortion etc. Indeed if Badenoch or Rees Mogg became party leader it likely would be official party policy to oppose that
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,253

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    Lots of talk that the Americans used RAF Macrahinish and its 10,000 foot runway for "exotics". The US Navy handed it back to the MOD in 1995.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Some advice from a friend, just received


    "If you find anything dull, irksome or depressing, just add the phrase "erooni" to the end, and it livens it up"

    So you haven't got cancer, you've got cancerooooni! which is much better. Almost a positive, really

    OK, back to work

    As in 'raineroooni stopped play at Lords'.

    Ishmailerooni being a dick again? Yep, I like it. :D
    Tell us again about the drought of 1976. Go on. It changes just everything.
    No point - you are not interested in genuine debate about global weather patterns versus climate change. You exist only to try to on certain posters, hoping for a response. Life is too short.
    Fail. Yebbut 1976 is about as intelligent as my grandma smoked 80 a day and lived to 140. You got told this on twitter by your own account and were hoping for a better outcome here.
    Citing a drought in 1976 is not about refuting climate change, which is not what I am trying to do. Suggesting that the latest drought is due to global weather patterns rather than hyperventilating about climate change is totally reasonable. Are you suggesting I am trying to deny climate change?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
    Good. If the people of NI vote to Leave then good riddance to them.

    But if they want to stick with us, they have to accept the decisions of the Westminster Parliament, whether that be Brexit or "legalised infanticide" or anything else Westminster democratically approves of that they dislike.
    As I said, you aren't an objective person to judge the constitutional issues. Westminster imposing things that damage a nation against that nation's voting wishes is unsustainable.

    I assume you cheer it on because you want to see the UK break apart.
    So just to be clear you're saying the UK should re-criminalise "infanticide" in Northern Ireland if that is what is agitating NI voters?

    Or is it only where NI's voting wishes match your own that this matters?

    If NI won't accept Westminster's supremacy then what's the point in even trying to maintain a union with them?
    As only a tiny minority of bigots in NI have those views, your straw man fails.
    One of the questions that was put to Truss today was about abortion to birth being allowed for conditions like Cleft Pallette etc. An opinion poll claims that 72% of NI voters oppose that law: https://care.org.uk/news/2020/06/new-poll-shows-majority-in-ni-opposed-to-abortion-to-birth-for-disabilities

    So that's considerably more opposition to what Westminster did than it is on anything else, if you're going on polls like that.

    I'm glad Westminster ignored the 72% that opinion poll found and I'm glad Truss reinforced that today too.
    Either Westminster has the power to legislate, or it doesn't, you can't cherrypick that bits you like and claim the rest is undemocratic.

    If NI voters want to be in a union with England etc then that means Westminster will sometimes make decisions you don't like. Truss explicitly said today in response to the abortion question that's part of being in a union. 👍

    EDIT: Here you go, as Truss said "that is what being a union is": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-62566833?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&Abortion law should apply across UK - Truss&2022-08-17T12:41:07.726Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:25fefc01-b582-4a14-aa75-1c700d53b591&pinned_post_asset_id=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&pinned_post_type=share
    I would note most MPs wanting to reverse that horrible abortion to birth law for disabilities are Tory. If Truss wants abortion on demand the party will be in open revolt, including those who backed her like Rees Mogg and Dorries.

    NI taking its own position on abortion is also no different to the position in the US Union now with each state taking its own line
    No difference to the utter dogshite that is the US position?

    Thank goodness Truss opposed that then and will be next Tory leader and not a loon obsessed with Medieval religion like you.
    I would point out the majority of Tory MPs also voted against permanent diy abortions by 172 to just 75 in favour. Only Labour and LD MPs got it through.

    Rather than being an extreme view within the party my view carries the largest support in the Conservative party which Truss better note

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/03/31/the-vote-on-pills-by-post-72-conservative-mps-voted-to-keep-abortions-at-home-and-175-voted-against/
    She noted it by telling people questioning abortion on demand to birth for things like fetal defect that was the will the UK Parliament on a conscious vote and she won't be changing it. No attempt to pander to the extreme views you have, even if your extreme views are regrettably common in the Conservative Party they're not coming through in this leadership contest.

    Good.
    They will again in the next backbench proposed amendment. Opposing abortion on demand is also not extreme, indeed the opposite
    Thankfully since this is a conscience issue, you can't dismiss opposition party MPs from the numbers.

    May this never become a party partisan issue and may Parliament keep putting loons obsessed with "infanticide" back in their box.
    It is not infanticide to oppose abortion on demand up until birth for disabled babies and DIY abortion etc. Indeed if Badenoch or Rees Mogg became party leader it likely would be official party policy to oppose that
    Thankfully the party saw fit not to elect those idiots then, eh?

    Anyone who would end the idea of abortion being a "conscience" issue and chose to make it a "whipped" one wouldn't be fit to be leader, so thankfully that isn't happening. 👍
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,743

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    What language is this? Pray tell!
    Despite being a total Luddite born in 1740, having daughters I had to resort to my Liddell and Scott to look up one word only (cray).

  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    Until the alleged other 5 photos emerge, and preferably the negatives, I remain on the skeptical side of this. I've asked before, if this is from the alleged location, where are the hills?
    I had assumed it was shot 'upwards' as it were but the angles seem off. I'm really not sure. Still leaning towards a US bit of weird tech. Any aliens would seem to have little reason to be fuckung about at that level.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,908

    Here's a really good and interesting "do at home" experiment showing why flooding in a drought is possible.

    https://twitter.com/UniofReading/status/1557350976725581824

    I'll admit I had the same thought as the top reply - that the situations with active vegetation change ease of air entry to the tumbler, which is important for water escape, but reasonably satisfied with the response.

    I'd still prefer open-topped tubes to a sealed top (bottom) plastic tumbler.

    Jeez, doing science day to day can ruin some of this fun simple stuff :disappointed:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Representative Liz Cheney said early Wednesday that she was “thinking” about running for president in 2024, a prospect that would test the national viability of a conservative, anti-Trump platform that failed resoundingly in Wyoming.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/17/us/politics/liz-cheney-2024-president.html
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    Until the alleged other 5 photos emerge, and preferably the negatives, I remain on the skeptical side of this. I've asked before, if this is from the alleged location, where are the hills?
    They are partly hidden by low cloud and the photographers are looking up at quite an angle - which fits their eye witness testimony, shooting at the sky

    Go back to the image and look along the fence at the bottom. You can just about make out the valley and the closer hills, as darker shapes


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    The pro photographer who analysed the image reached the same conclusion
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
    Good. If the people of NI vote to Leave then good riddance to them.

    But if they want to stick with us, they have to accept the decisions of the Westminster Parliament, whether that be Brexit or "legalised infanticide" or anything else Westminster democratically approves of that they dislike.
    As I said, you aren't an objective person to judge the constitutional issues. Westminster imposing things that damage a nation against that nation's voting wishes is unsustainable.

    I assume you cheer it on because you want to see the UK break apart.
    So just to be clear you're saying the UK should re-criminalise "infanticide" in Northern Ireland if that is what is agitating NI voters?

    Or is it only where NI's voting wishes match your own that this matters?

    If NI won't accept Westminster's supremacy then what's the point in even trying to maintain a union with them?
    As only a tiny minority of bigots in NI have those views, your straw man fails.
    One of the questions that was put to Truss today was about abortion to birth being allowed for conditions like Cleft Pallette etc. An opinion poll claims that 72% of NI voters oppose that law: https://care.org.uk/news/2020/06/new-poll-shows-majority-in-ni-opposed-to-abortion-to-birth-for-disabilities

    So that's considerably more opposition to what Westminster did than it is on anything else, if you're going on polls like that.

    I'm glad Westminster ignored the 72% that opinion poll found and I'm glad Truss reinforced that today too.
    Either Westminster has the power to legislate, or it doesn't, you can't cherrypick that bits you like and claim the rest is undemocratic.

    If NI voters want to be in a union with England etc then that means Westminster will sometimes make decisions you don't like. Truss explicitly said today in response to the abortion question that's part of being in a union. 👍

    EDIT: Here you go, as Truss said "that is what being a union is": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-62566833?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&Abortion law should apply across UK - Truss&2022-08-17T12:41:07.726Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:25fefc01-b582-4a14-aa75-1c700d53b591&pinned_post_asset_id=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&pinned_post_type=share
    I would note most MPs wanting to reverse that horrible abortion to birth law for disabilities are Tory. If Truss wants abortion on demand the party will be in open revolt, including those who backed her like Rees Mogg and Dorries.

    NI taking its own position on abortion is also no different to the position in the US Union now with each state taking its own line
    No difference to the utter dogshite that is the US position?

    Thank goodness Truss opposed that then and will be next Tory leader and not a loon obsessed with Medieval religion like you.
    I would point out the majority of Tory MPs also voted against permanent diy abortions by 172 to just 75 in favour. Only Labour and LD MPs got it through.

    Rather than being an extreme view within the party my view carries the largest support in the Conservative party which Truss better note

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/03/31/the-vote-on-pills-by-post-72-conservative-mps-voted-to-keep-abortions-at-home-and-175-voted-against/
    She noted it by telling people questioning abortion on demand to birth for things like fetal defect that was the will the UK Parliament on a conscious vote and she won't be changing it. No attempt to pander to the extreme views you have, even if your extreme views are regrettably common in the Conservative Party they're not coming through in this leadership contest.

    Good.
    They will again in the next backbench proposed amendment. Opposing abortion on demand is also not extreme, indeed the opposite
    Thankfully since this is a conscience issue, you can't dismiss opposition party MPs from the numbers.

    May this never become a party partisan issue and may Parliament keep putting loons obsessed with "infanticide" back in their box.
    It is not infanticide to oppose abortion on demand up until birth for disabled babies and DIY abortion etc. Indeed if Badenoch or Rees Mogg became party leader it likely would be official party policy to oppose that
    Thankfully the party saw fit not to elect those idiots then, eh?

    Anyone who would end the idea of abortion being a "conscience" issue and chose to make it a "whipped" one wouldn't be fit to be leader, so thankfully that isn't happening. 👍
    For now, if Truss leads the party to defeat at the next general election then Badenoch would be amongst the favourites to succeed her as Tory leader and become Leader of the Opposition and Rees Mogg would also be in contention
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    Representative Liz Cheney said early Wednesday that she was “thinking” about running for president in 2024, a prospect that would test the national viability of a conservative, anti-Trump platform that failed resoundingly in Wyoming.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/17/us/politics/liz-cheney-2024-president.html

    She would likely get a higher percentage in New York and California than the red states
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    HYUFD said:

    Representative Liz Cheney said early Wednesday that she was “thinking” about running for president in 2024, a prospect that would test the national viability of a conservative, anti-Trump platform that failed resoundingly in Wyoming.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/17/us/politics/liz-cheney-2024-president.html

    She would likely get a higher percentage in New York and California than the red states
    I think she should run as a 3rd party, taking just enough off Trump to keep him out of the WH.

    Doubt she will though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 437
    HYUFD said:

    Representative Liz Cheney said early Wednesday that she was “thinking” about running for president in 2024, a prospect that would test the national viability of a conservative, anti-Trump platform that failed resoundingly in Wyoming.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/17/us/politics/liz-cheney-2024-president.html

    She would likely get a higher percentage in New York and California than the red states
    In Wyoming her tactic was to get independent and Democratic voters to register as Republicans - there was an 11% increase in registered Republicans.

    You only need to read her speech to see she's going to run; her first tactic would be to get enough votes in primaries to stop Trump winning but not enough to win herself, and if that doesn't work to go as a third party candidate. I got on her last week at 225-1, she's down I think to 120-1 now but with very little money in the market.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,927
    edited August 2022

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    Lots of talk that the Americans used RAF Macrahinish and its 10,000 foot runway for "exotics". The US Navy handed it back to the MOD in 1995.
    And the Americans have form for using UFO stories to cover up what they are really working on.

    Not to mention the fact of the MoD cover-up supports the hypothesis it was an American plane and not a production line model. Why would MoD want to hide a hoax?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    carnforth said:

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    Platty Joobs was funny because of its unnecessariness: we give nicknames like this to things which are commonplace, and the Platinum Jubilee was the opposite.

    “Crimbo” may be the oldest and worst offender.
    City/|Ville / town has some explaining to do as in

    Embarrassment City !

    Cringe Ville

    Awkward Town, population you bro...

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,279

    HYUFD said:

    Representative Liz Cheney said early Wednesday that she was “thinking” about running for president in 2024, a prospect that would test the national viability of a conservative, anti-Trump platform that failed resoundingly in Wyoming.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/17/us/politics/liz-cheney-2024-president.html

    She would likely get a higher percentage in New York and California than the red states
    I think she should run as a 3rd party, taking just enough off Trump to keep him out of the WH.

    Doubt she will though.
    Surely in this context Republican or quasi Republican votes in California or New York are immaterial. What is needed are enough quasi Republican votes in Florida, Texas and the like to let the Democratic candidate in.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,955

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
    Good. If the people of NI vote to Leave then good riddance to them.

    But if they want to stick with us, they have to accept the decisions of the Westminster Parliament, whether that be Brexit or "legalised infanticide" or anything else Westminster democratically approves of that they dislike.
    As I said, you aren't an objective person to judge the constitutional issues. Westminster imposing things that damage a nation against that nation's voting wishes is unsustainable.

    I assume you cheer it on because you want to see the UK break apart.
    So just to be clear you're saying the UK should re-criminalise "infanticide" in Northern Ireland if that is what is agitating NI voters?

    Or is it only where NI's voting wishes match your own that this matters?

    If NI won't accept Westminster's supremacy then what's the point in even trying to maintain a union with them?
    As only a tiny minority of bigots in NI have those views, your straw man fails.
    One of the questions that was put to Truss today was about abortion to birth being allowed for conditions like Cleft Pallette etc. An opinion poll claims that 72% of NI voters oppose that law: https://care.org.uk/news/2020/06/new-poll-shows-majority-in-ni-opposed-to-abortion-to-birth-for-disabilities

    So that's considerably more opposition to what Westminster did than it is on anything else, if you're going on polls like that.

    I'm glad Westminster ignored the 72% that opinion poll found and I'm glad Truss reinforced that today too.
    Either Westminster has the power to legislate, or it doesn't, you can't cherrypick that bits you like and claim the rest is undemocratic.

    If NI voters want to be in a union with England etc then that means Westminster will sometimes make decisions you don't like. Truss explicitly said today in response to the abortion question that's part of being in a union. 👍

    EDIT: Here you go, as Truss said "that is what being a union is": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-62566833?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&Abortion law should apply across UK - Truss&2022-08-17T12:41:07.726Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:25fefc01-b582-4a14-aa75-1c700d53b591&pinned_post_asset_id=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&pinned_post_type=share
    I would note most MPs wanting to reverse that horrible abortion to birth law for disabilities are Tory. If Truss wants abortion on demand the party will be in open revolt, including those who backed her like Rees Mogg and Dorries.

    NI taking its own position on abortion is also no different to the position in the US Union now with each state taking its own line
    No difference to the utter dogshite that is the US position?

    Thank goodness Truss opposed that then and will be next Tory leader and not a loon obsessed with Medieval religion like you.
    I would point out the majority of Tory MPs also voted against permanent diy abortions by 172 to just 75 in favour. Only Labour and LD MPs got it through.

    Rather than being an extreme view within the party my view carries the largest support in the Conservative party which Truss better note

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/03/31/the-vote-on-pills-by-post-72-conservative-mps-voted-to-keep-abortions-at-home-and-175-voted-against/
    She noted it by telling people questioning abortion on demand to birth for things like fetal defect that was the will the UK Parliament on a conscious vote and she won't be changing it. No attempt to pander to the extreme views you have, even if your extreme views are regrettably common in the Conservative Party they're not coming through in this leadership contest.

    Good.
    They will again in the next backbench proposed amendment. Opposing abortion on demand is also not extreme, indeed the opposite
    Thankfully since this is a conscience issue, you can't dismiss opposition party MPs from the numbers.

    May this never become a party partisan issue and may Parliament keep putting loons obsessed with "infanticide" back in their box.
    It is not infanticide to oppose abortion on demand up until birth for disabled babies and DIY abortion etc. Indeed if Badenoch or Rees Mogg became party leader it likely would be official party policy to oppose that
    Thankfully the party saw fit not to elect those idiots then, eh?

    Anyone who would end the idea of abortion being a "conscience" issue and chose to make it a "whipped" one wouldn't be fit to be leader, so thankfully that isn't happening. 👍
    Not really sure why you're calling people idiots on the basis of HYFUD idly surmising what their abortion policy would be.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    Which eye-witness accounts though? The two walkers? Where are they? Are they dead? Do we have names?
    Which MOD investigation? By who? I don't trust Nick Pope overmuch, as he now has a career based on talking about UFO/UAPs and his time at the MOD. I don't see how it can be concluded that its an object of significant size based on what we can see, which goes back to - where are the negs and other photos. What about the pilot of the plane - he would have seen it or perhaps been tasked to intercept.

    I keep referring back to Gordon Faulkner and Warminster as a classic example of a one off photo of a UFO. Almost certainly a hoax.

    news.bbc.co.uk/local/wiltshire/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8694000/8694729.stm
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    I am certain he does for some of his tricks. He is at heart a magician, and you forget that at your peril. No-one believed that Paul Daniels actually performed magic, yet people seem to think Brown has 'powers'.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    Here are eye witness reports from Calvine and part of the MoD response (which appears to be legit, and has not been denied by the MoD)

    https://twitter.com/WilsonStraiph/status/1558773564244910080?s=20&t=XIAvg0Bi7CE0DGFHL5x99g


    One fascinating detail has been ignored. In their response the MoD say they have analysed the images and identified a Harrier jet, and also a SECOND aircraft also a Harrier (barely visible), alongside the Unidentified Large Object

    Where is this second Harrier? I can't see it in this image. Which must mean it is in one of the other 5 images. So there were two planes there, buzzing the UFO

    That also confirms that they REALLY examined the photos
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376

    Representative Liz Cheney said early Wednesday that she was “thinking” about running for president in 2024, a prospect that would test the national viability of a conservative, anti-Trump platform that failed resoundingly in Wyoming.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/17/us/politics/liz-cheney-2024-president.html

    I am quite tired of hearing about her really. She's had her 15 minutes now, done the chat shows, time to pack it in.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    Which eye-witness accounts though? The two walkers? Where are they? Are they dead? Do we have names?
    Which MOD investigation? By who? I don't trust Nick Pope overmuch, as he now has a career based on talking about UFO/UAPs and his time at the MOD. I don't see how it can be concluded that its an object of significant size based on what we can see, which goes back to - where are the negs and other photos. What about the pilot of the plane - he would have seen it or perhaps been tasked to intercept.

    I keep referring back to Gordon Faulkner and Warminster as a classic example of a one off photo of a UFO. Almost certainly a hoax.

    news.bbc.co.uk/local/wiltshire/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8694000/8694729.stm
    I just linked
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,279

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    I am certain he does for some of his tricks. He is at heart a magician, and you forget that at your peril. No-one believed that Paul Daniels actually performed magic, yet people seem to think Brown has 'powers'.
    Paul Daniels persuaded Debbie McGee to marry him though!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    My major issue is how much Nick Pope has always bigged this up ftom well before the photo went public. Hes an MOD man and still plays the 'can neither confirm or deny' shoboggins, he's still a govt man at heart. So i have suspicions this, like gimbal and tic tac is a 'look over here, not over here' thing. Pope is a big pusher of the 'possible defence threat' narrative (aka more money for defence projects please)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    But I've seen him live, on stage
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    I am certain he does for some of his tricks. He is at heart a magician, and you forget that at your peril. No-one believed that Paul Daniels actually performed magic, yet people seem to think Brown has 'powers'.
    Paul Daniels persuaded Debbie McGee to marry him though!
    Threatened not to put her back together again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    My major issue is how much Nick Pope has always bigged this up ftom well before the photo went public. Hes an MOD man and still plays the 'can neither confirm or deny' shoboggins, he's still a govt man at heart. So i have suspicions this, like gimbal and tic tac is a 'look over here, not over here' thing. Pope is a big pusher of the 'possible defence threat' narrative (aka more money for defence projects please)
    Well yes, but then again he always said these photos existed, he always told us what they looked like (big diamond thing in grey sky buzzed by plane) and he was consistently derided and dismissed as a loon

    And yet Lo, here we are, the photo has emerged and he is vindicated entirely. He is allowed a few days of profitable gloating
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    I am certain he does for some of his tricks. He is at heart a magician, and you forget that at your peril. No-one believed that Paul Daniels actually performed magic, yet people seem to think Brown has 'powers'.
    Paul Daniels persuaded Debbie McGee to marry him though!
    What first attracted her to the multimillionaire Paul Daniels as Mrs Merton quipped?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
    Good. If the people of NI vote to Leave then good riddance to them.

    But if they want to stick with us, they have to accept the decisions of the Westminster Parliament, whether that be Brexit or "legalised infanticide" or anything else Westminster democratically approves of that they dislike.
    As I said, you aren't an objective person to judge the constitutional issues. Westminster imposing things that damage a nation against that nation's voting wishes is unsustainable.

    I assume you cheer it on because you want to see the UK break apart.
    So just to be clear you're saying the UK should re-criminalise "infanticide" in Northern Ireland if that is what is agitating NI voters?

    Or is it only where NI's voting wishes match your own that this matters?

    If NI won't accept Westminster's supremacy then what's the point in even trying to maintain a union with them?
    As only a tiny minority of bigots in NI have those views, your straw man fails.
    One of the questions that was put to Truss today was about abortion to birth being allowed for conditions like Cleft Pallette etc. An opinion poll claims that 72% of NI voters oppose that law: https://care.org.uk/news/2020/06/new-poll-shows-majority-in-ni-opposed-to-abortion-to-birth-for-disabilities

    So that's considerably more opposition to what Westminster did than it is on anything else, if you're going on polls like that.

    I'm glad Westminster ignored the 72% that opinion poll found and I'm glad Truss reinforced that today too.
    Either Westminster has the power to legislate, or it doesn't, you can't cherrypick that bits you like and claim the rest is undemocratic.

    If NI voters want to be in a union with England etc then that means Westminster will sometimes make decisions you don't like. Truss explicitly said today in response to the abortion question that's part of being in a union. 👍

    EDIT: Here you go, as Truss said "that is what being a union is": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-62566833?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&Abortion law should apply across UK - Truss&2022-08-17T12:41:07.726Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:25fefc01-b582-4a14-aa75-1c700d53b591&pinned_post_asset_id=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&pinned_post_type=share
    I would note most MPs wanting to reverse that horrible abortion to birth law for disabilities are Tory. If Truss wants abortion on demand the party will be in open revolt, including those who backed her like Rees Mogg and Dorries.

    NI taking its own position on abortion is also no different to the position in the US Union now with each state taking its own line
    No difference to the utter dogshite that is the US position?

    Thank goodness Truss opposed that then and will be next Tory leader and not a loon obsessed with Medieval religion like you.
    I would point out the majority of Tory MPs also voted against permanent diy abortions by 172 to just 75 in favour. Only Labour and LD MPs got it through.

    Rather than being an extreme view within the party my view carries the largest support in the Conservative party which Truss better note

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/03/31/the-vote-on-pills-by-post-72-conservative-mps-voted-to-keep-abortions-at-home-and-175-voted-against/
    She noted it by telling people questioning abortion on demand to birth for things like fetal defect that was the will the UK Parliament on a conscious vote and she won't be changing it. No attempt to pander to the extreme views you have, even if your extreme views are regrettably common in the Conservative Party they're not coming through in this leadership contest.

    Good.
    They will again in the next backbench proposed amendment. Opposing abortion on demand is also not extreme, indeed the opposite
    Thankfully since this is a conscience issue, you can't dismiss opposition party MPs from the numbers.

    May this never become a party partisan issue and may Parliament keep putting loons obsessed with "infanticide" back in their box.
    It is not infanticide to oppose abortion on demand up until birth for disabled babies and DIY abortion etc. Indeed if Badenoch or Rees Mogg became party leader it likely would be official party policy to oppose that
    Thankfully the party saw fit not to elect those idiots then, eh?

    Anyone who would end the idea of abortion being a "conscience" issue and chose to make it a "whipped" one wouldn't be fit to be leader, so thankfully that isn't happening. 👍
    Not really sure why you're calling people idiots on the basis of HYFUD idly surmising what their abortion policy would be.
    Because it's idiotic to have any abortion policy.

    Abortion is a conscience issue.

    If someone tries to upend that and make something "party policy" then that is a stupid idea whether that be making it party policy to ban abortion, party policy to mandate it, or anything in between.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,955
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    But I've seen him live, on stage
    I don't know about his stage show, but I do know that on TV, they have hundreds of takes where people don't fall for his tricks.

    There's one where he gets shopkeepers to accept worthless bits of paper rather than money. In real life, it worked one in three times. But you only see that one, and not the occasions where people say "eh, what the heck are you doing?"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    But I've seen him live, on stage
    I don't know about his stage show, but I do know that on TV, they have hundreds of takes where people don't fall for his tricks.

    There's one where he gets shopkeepers to accept worthless bits of paper rather than money. In real life, it worked one in three times. But you only see that one, and not the occasions where people say "eh, what the heck are you doing?"
    I've no doubt you are right, but all I can say is: I've seen him live on stage and he is breathtakingly good in that set-up, as well, and he did not obviously/badly fail once, as far as I can remember - he may have fumbled, but his patter is good, and everything went on. He did some stunning tricks/illusions

    I heartily recommend it, actually
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,743
    edited August 2022
    MISTY said:

    carnforth said:

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    Platty Joobs was funny because of its unnecessariness: we give nicknames like this to things which are commonplace, and the Platinum Jubilee was the opposite.

    “Crimbo” may be the oldest and worst offender.
    City/|Ville / town has some explaining to do as in

    Embarrassment City !

    Cringe Ville

    Awkward Town, population you bro...

    Perhaps these are expansions from 'Queer Street' - which is 200 years old at least, has no connection SFAICS with sexual meanings of the word 'queer'. It is used in Sherlock Holmes stories. I remember it being used in admonitory tones ('You will find yourself in Queer Street') by primary school teachers, c1965.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
    Good. If the people of NI vote to Leave then good riddance to them.

    But if they want to stick with us, they have to accept the decisions of the Westminster Parliament, whether that be Brexit or "legalised infanticide" or anything else Westminster democratically approves of that they dislike.
    As I said, you aren't an objective person to judge the constitutional issues. Westminster imposing things that damage a nation against that nation's voting wishes is unsustainable.

    I assume you cheer it on because you want to see the UK break apart.
    So just to be clear you're saying the UK should re-criminalise "infanticide" in Northern Ireland if that is what is agitating NI voters?

    Or is it only where NI's voting wishes match your own that this matters?

    If NI won't accept Westminster's supremacy then what's the point in even trying to maintain a union with them?
    As only a tiny minority of bigots in NI have those views, your straw man fails.
    One of the questions that was put to Truss today was about abortion to birth being allowed for conditions like Cleft Pallette etc. An opinion poll claims that 72% of NI voters oppose that law: https://care.org.uk/news/2020/06/new-poll-shows-majority-in-ni-opposed-to-abortion-to-birth-for-disabilities

    So that's considerably more opposition to what Westminster did than it is on anything else, if you're going on polls like that.

    I'm glad Westminster ignored the 72% that opinion poll found and I'm glad Truss reinforced that today too.
    Either Westminster has the power to legislate, or it doesn't, you can't cherrypick that bits you like and claim the rest is undemocratic.

    If NI voters want to be in a union with England etc then that means Westminster will sometimes make decisions you don't like. Truss explicitly said today in response to the abortion question that's part of being in a union. 👍

    EDIT: Here you go, as Truss said "that is what being a union is": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-62566833?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&Abortion law should apply across UK - Truss&2022-08-17T12:41:07.726Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:25fefc01-b582-4a14-aa75-1c700d53b591&pinned_post_asset_id=62fce157405bb048e31822d8&pinned_post_type=share
    I would note most MPs wanting to reverse that horrible abortion to birth law for disabilities are Tory. If Truss wants abortion on demand the party will be in open revolt, including those who backed her like Rees Mogg and Dorries.

    NI taking its own position on abortion is also no different to the position in the US Union now with each state taking its own line
    No difference to the utter dogshite that is the US position?

    Thank goodness Truss opposed that then and will be next Tory leader and not a loon obsessed with Medieval religion like you.
    I would point out the majority of Tory MPs also voted against permanent diy abortions by 172 to just 75 in favour. Only Labour and LD MPs got it through.

    Rather than being an extreme view within the party my view carries the largest support in the Conservative party which Truss better note

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/03/31/the-vote-on-pills-by-post-72-conservative-mps-voted-to-keep-abortions-at-home-and-175-voted-against/
    She noted it by telling people questioning abortion on demand to birth for things like fetal defect that was the will the UK Parliament on a conscious vote and she won't be changing it. No attempt to pander to the extreme views you have, even if your extreme views are regrettably common in the Conservative Party they're not coming through in this leadership contest.

    Good.
    They will again in the next backbench proposed amendment. Opposing abortion on demand is also not extreme, indeed the opposite
    Thankfully since this is a conscience issue, you can't dismiss opposition party MPs from the numbers.

    May this never become a party partisan issue and may Parliament keep putting loons obsessed with "infanticide" back in their box.
    It is not infanticide to oppose abortion on demand up until birth for disabled babies and DIY abortion etc. Indeed if Badenoch or Rees Mogg became party leader it likely would be official party policy to oppose that
    Thankfully the party saw fit not to elect those idiots then, eh?

    Anyone who would end the idea of abortion being a "conscience" issue and chose to make it a "whipped" one wouldn't be fit to be leader, so thankfully that isn't happening. 👍
    Not really sure why you're calling people idiots on the basis of HYFUD idly surmising what their abortion policy would be.
    Because it's idiotic to have any abortion policy.

    Abortion is a conscience issue.

    If someone tries to upend that and make something "party policy" then that is a stupid idea whether that be making it party policy to ban abortion, party policy to mandate it, or anything in between.
    Abortion being a conscience issue is a policy. And all countries (including ours) have policies surrounding it - it's not a free for all.

    But that's beside the point, which is that HYFUD has made something up and you're swinging punches about his made up future. I am not sure of the need is all.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,279
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    But I've seen him live, on stage
    I don't know about his stage show, but I do know that on TV, they have hundreds of takes where people don't fall for his tricks.

    There's one where he gets shopkeepers to accept worthless bits of paper rather than money. In real life, it worked one in three times. But you only see that one, and not the occasions where people say "eh, what the heck are you doing?"
    Isn't the Chancellor trying that now?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 1,055
    "Faced with a worrisome decline in Russia’s population, President Vladimir Putin this week revived a Soviet-era award launched in 1944, to encourage Russians to supersize their families.

    The “Mother Heroine” award published in a decree on Monday goes to women who bear 10 or more children, offering financial incentives and social kudos in a bid to spur population growth."
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/17/russia-ukraine-putin-mother-heroine-award-children/

    Be interesting to see if it has any effect.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    But I've seen him live, on stage
    I don't know about his stage show, but I do know that on TV, they have hundreds of takes where people don't fall for his tricks.

    There's one where he gets shopkeepers to accept worthless bits of paper rather than money. In real life, it worked one in three times. But you only see that one, and not the occasions where people say "eh, what the heck are you doing?"
    Isn't the Chancellor trying that now?
    Bank of England policy for decades.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    But I've seen him live, on stage
    I don't know about his stage show, but I do know that on TV, they have hundreds of takes where people don't fall for his tricks.

    There's one where he gets shopkeepers to accept worthless bits of paper rather than money. In real life, it worked one in three times. But you only see that one, and not the occasions where people say "eh, what the heck are you doing?"
    I've no doubt you are right, but all I can say is: I've seen him live on stage and he is breathtakingly good in that set-up, as well, and he did not obviously/badly fail once, as far as I can remember - he may have fumbled, but his patter is good, and everything went on. He did some stunning tricks/illusions

    I heartily recommend it, actually
    Mind you, you do have a stupendously high Credibility Quotient.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    For anyone who needs the ultimate source of the Calvine eye witness reports and the MoD response, it is in here. Page 27-29


    Released under FoIA


    https://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/ufos/UK/defe-24-2048-1-1.pdf


    Tantalisingly, it shows that the negatives were returned to the Scottish Daily Record. Where are they?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    But I've seen him live, on stage
    I don't know about his stage show, but I do know that on TV, they have hundreds of takes where people don't fall for his tricks.

    There's one where he gets shopkeepers to accept worthless bits of paper rather than money. In real life, it worked one in three times. But you only see that one, and not the occasions where people say "eh, what the heck are you doing?"
    I've no doubt you are right, but all I can say is: I've seen him live on stage and he is breathtakingly good in that set-up, as well, and he did not obviously/badly fail once, as far as I can remember - he may have fumbled, but his patter is good, and everything went on. He did some stunning tricks/illusions

    I heartily recommend it, actually
    Mind you, you do have a stupendously high Credibility Quotient.
    You mean credulity, I think
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376
    edited August 2022

    "Faced with a worrisome decline in Russia’s population, President Vladimir Putin this week revived a Soviet-era award launched in 1944, to encourage Russians to supersize their families.

    The “Mother Heroine” award published in a decree on Monday goes to women who bear 10 or more children, offering financial incentives and social kudos in a bid to spur population growth."
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/17/russia-ukraine-putin-mother-heroine-award-children/

    Be interesting to see if it has any effect.

    It's not much of an incentive for having 10. .
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    algarkirk said:

    MISTY said:

    carnforth said:

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    Platty Joobs was funny because of its unnecessariness: we give nicknames like this to things which are commonplace, and the Platinum Jubilee was the opposite.

    “Crimbo” may be the oldest and worst offender.
    City/|Ville / town has some explaining to do as in

    Embarrassment City !

    Cringe Ville

    Awkward Town, population you bro...

    Perhaps these are expansions from 'Queer Street' - which is 200 years old at least, has no connection SFAICS with sexual meanings of the word 'queer'. It is used in Sherlock Holmes stories. I remember it being used in admonitory tones ('You will find yourself in Queer Street') by primary school teachers, c1965.

    Queer Street is Carey Street where the bankruptcy courts were.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,986
    Some serious rain in North East London:

    https://www.netweather.tv/live-weather/radar
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    tlg86 said:

    Some serious rain in North East London:

    https://www.netweather.tv/live-weather/radar

    Monsoonal, here
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,258

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    I am certain he does for some of his tricks. He is at heart a magician, and you forget that at your peril. No-one believed that Paul Daniels actually performed magic, yet people seem to think Brown has 'powers'.
    Paul Daniels persuaded Debbie McGee to marry him though!
    Mrs Merton got to the heart of that illusion.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,695
    Visited the Tropical Butterfly House in Sheffield today.

    Really nice little place some fantastic animals and birds and the butterflies are amazing.

    They even have a Rishi Sunak for PM section complete with Black Swans

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,279
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Some serious rain in North East London:

    https://www.netweather.tv/live-weather/radar

    Monsoonal, here
    Play abandoned at Lord's. Possibly for the best, under the circumstances!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    .

    Representative Liz Cheney said early Wednesday that she was “thinking” about running for president in 2024, a prospect that would test the national viability of a conservative, anti-Trump platform that failed resoundingly in Wyoming.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/17/us/politics/liz-cheney-2024-president.html

    I am quite tired of hearing about her really. She's had her 15 minutes now, done the chat shows, time to pack it in.
    How hard for you.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    It's a frickin alien


    DISCLOSUREROONI
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,341
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    You SO want to believe don't you old chap! The truth is out there...... da da da da da da da da da
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Research from Ipsos shows 2 in 3 of Brits think the Government are not doing enough to help people through the cost of living crisis, including 6 in 10 who voted for the Conservatives in 2019

    More: https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/two-thirds-say-government-not-providing-enough-support-cost https://twitter.com/TrinhIpsosUK/status/1559867411293151232/photo/1

    I think the question is phrased wrongly. I don't want the Government to 'help me through the col crisis', though if I need such help I will accept it reluctantly. I want the Government to drive down the cost of living. That is quite different to giving me some of my own money back to make things a bit easier until we have to pay the inevitable bill. One has a positive long term impact, one has a negative one. I want to hear every week, potentially every day, of an initiative that the Government is taking that will drive down the col, on energy yes, but on other things too.

    Actions that would qualify: bringing new sources of energy on board and incentivising and enabling domestic suppliers to create more energy. Longer term projects to exploit UK oil, gas, and potentially coal, also local incinerator schemes revisited and greenlit. Longer term projects to create more renewables supply (tidal), and breaking ground on more power storage projects to even out supply. Re-open our gas storage within weeks not years. Temporary refitting of gas power stations to use more readily available fuels (someone here mentioned this yesterday). Bringing Iranian oil supply back on stream.

    New trade deals to drive down the price of food. An end to financial and other incentives for farmers to leave the industry, and/or 'rewild'.

    I would also look for a speedy exit to the Ukraine conflict, and the return of Russia to the European gas market, but I appreciate that that is unlikely politically.
    All really good ideas, until that last line.

    The only way the war gets resolved, is by the Russian army going back to Russia, and another Russian leader making a massive effort towards peace with the world. Until then, the HIMARS will keep raining down.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,280

    Representative Liz Cheney said early Wednesday that she was “thinking” about running for president in 2024, a prospect that would test the national viability of a conservative, anti-Trump platform that failed resoundingly in Wyoming.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/17/us/politics/liz-cheney-2024-president.html

    I am quite tired of hearing about her really. She's had her 15 minutes now, done the chat shows, time to pack it in.
    All I know about her is that she's a politician who stood by her principles and refused to lie unlike so many of her careerist colleagues in the Republican party. Ultimately that cost her. I think she deserves respect for that alone.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,341

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    You SO want to believe don't you old chap! The truth is out there...... da da da da da da da da da
    Sorry one too many "da"s
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    NHS leaders are increasingly wondering what is going to be the emblematic story that shocks people into realising what a state emergency care is in

    "It is definitely going to involve an ambulance", one was saying to me only today

    https://twitter.com/BBCCornwall/status/1559872336974815232

    Truss has no idea what is going to hit her
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,341

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    I am certain he does for some of his tricks. He is at heart a magician, and you forget that at your peril. No-one believed that Paul Daniels actually performed magic, yet people seem to think Brown has 'powers'.
    Paul Daniels persuaded Debbie McGee to marry him though!
    Mrs Merton got to the heart of that illusion.
    She could have added the word "twat" after the word millionaire.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    My major issue is how much Nick Pope has always bigged this up ftom well before the photo went public. Hes an MOD man and still plays the 'can neither confirm or deny' shoboggins, he's still a govt man at heart. So i have suspicions this, like gimbal and tic tac is a 'look over here, not over here' thing. Pope is a big pusher of the 'possible defence threat' narrative (aka more money for defence projects please)
    Well yes, but then again he always said these photos existed, he always told us what they looked like (big diamond thing in grey sky buzzed by plane) and he was consistently derided and dismissed as a loon

    And yet Lo, here we are, the photo has emerged and he is vindicated entirely. He is allowed a few days of profitable gloating
    Oh he was never dismissed as a loon in the UFO community, nor by the press, hes always been the UK media's go to guy since the original 'UKs real Fox Muldur' story
    But he was deeply involved with the MoD and i suspect still follows their tune much like Lue Elizondo in the States. They are frontmen encouraging us to look at what is currently 'allowed out'. Lots of prosaic but non definitive stuff with a hint of 'its a threat, much funding required!'
    Thats clearly how the powers that be want the topic looked at right now, in the same way blue book were ordered to debunk everything at all costs publically whilst their actual thoughts and findings privately were different, its just a shift of narrative control.
    You onky have to look at the likes of Donald Keyhoe ca 1952 to see how the brakes were suddenly applied hard and we went into full debunk. Weve only just emerged from that into this 'oddities, threats, research!' reality
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,341
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    But I've seen him live, on stage
    I don't know about his stage show, but I do know that on TV, they have hundreds of takes where people don't fall for his tricks.

    There's one where he gets shopkeepers to accept worthless bits of paper rather than money. In real life, it worked one in three times. But you only see that one, and not the occasions where people say "eh, what the heck are you doing?"
    I've no doubt you are right, but all I can say is: I've seen him live on stage and he is breathtakingly good in that set-up, as well, and he did not obviously/badly fail once, as far as I can remember - he may have fumbled, but his patter is good, and everything went on. He did some stunning tricks/illusions

    I heartily recommend it, actually
    Mind you, you do have a stupendously high Credibility Quotient.
    You mean credulity, I think
    I think he must have done. Otherwise he would have said a stupendously low Credibility Quotient.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    But I've seen him live, on stage
    I don't know about his stage show, but I do know that on TV, they have hundreds of takes where people don't fall for his tricks.

    There's one where he gets shopkeepers to accept worthless bits of paper rather than money. In real life, it worked one in three times. But you only see that one, and not the occasions where people say "eh, what the heck are you doing?"
    I've no doubt you are right, but all I can say is: I've seen him live on stage and he is breathtakingly good in that set-up, as well, and he did not obviously/badly fail once, as far as I can remember - he may have fumbled, but his patter is good, and everything went on. He did some stunning tricks/illusions

    I heartily recommend it, actually
    Mind you, you do have a stupendously high Credibility Quotient.
    You mean credulity, I think
    Lol yes!

    I could blame autocorrect but I think the three pints of Piddle I drunk at the Gillingham and Shaftesbury show today is more to blame.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,183

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Some serious rain in North East London:

    https://www.netweather.tv/live-weather/radar

    Monsoonal, here
    Play abandoned at Lord's. Possibly for the best, under the circumstances!
    32 overs played so no refund for Kinabalu, but a lot of cricket packed into those 32 overs.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    edited August 2022

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    My major issue is how much Nick Pope has always bigged this up ftom well before the photo went public. Hes an MOD man and still plays the 'can neither confirm or deny' shoboggins, he's still a govt man at heart. So i have suspicions this, like gimbal and tic tac is a 'look over here, not over here' thing. Pope is a big pusher of the 'possible defence threat' narrative (aka more money for defence projects please)
    Well yes, but then again he always said these photos existed, he always told us what they looked like (big diamond thing in grey sky buzzed by plane) and he was consistently derided and dismissed as a loon

    And yet Lo, here we are, the photo has emerged and he is vindicated entirely. He is allowed a few days of profitable gloating
    Oh he was never dismissed as a loon in the UFO community, nor by the press, hes always been the UK media's go to guy since the original 'UKs real Fox Muldur' story
    But he was deeply involved with the MoD and i suspect still follows their tune much like Lue Elizondo in the States. They are frontmen encouraging us to look at what is currently 'allowed out'. Lots of prosaic but non definitive stuff with a hint of 'its a threat, much funding required!'
    Thats clearly how the powers that be want the topic looked at right now, in the same way blue book were ordered to debunk everything at all costs publically whilst their actual thoughts and findings privately were different, its just a shift of narrative control.
    You onky have to look at the likes of Donald Keyhoe ca 1952 to see how the brakes were suddenly applied hard and we went into full debunk. Weve only just emerged from that into this 'oddities, threats, research!' reality
    Look at the difference between Pope in 'retirement' and the likes of Lord Peter Hill-Norton, former chief of defence staff and what he said about the Rendlesham incident
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    You SO want to believe don't you old chap! The truth is out there...... da da da da da da da da da
    Sorry one too many "da"s
    Ta-ra to the last da then.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    Definitely no stooges, one would have made themselves known by now.

    He’s usually superficially honest about numbers games, like when he hit 10 heads in a row coin tossing.
    You’re watching the last minute of TEN HOURS spent continually tossing the coin, but he was happy to have been the first person to have ever got ‘10 heads’ on film


    I saw his stage show, and it was brilliant. I only got one trick, and that was because of a well-placed theatre safety curtain at the interval, hiding for 10 minutes what should have been ‘in view the whole time’. He’s a genuine master of misdirection.

    Sometimes he screws up through, like with his lottery numbers camera trick, that everyone with any experience of digital travelling mattes called out immediately.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,341

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    My major issue is how much Nick Pope has always bigged this up ftom well before the photo went public. Hes an MOD man and still plays the 'can neither confirm or deny' shoboggins, he's still a govt man at heart. So i have suspicions this, like gimbal and tic tac is a 'look over here, not over here' thing. Pope is a big pusher of the 'possible defence threat' narrative (aka more money for defence projects please)
    Well yes, but then again he always said these photos existed, he always told us what they looked like (big diamond thing in grey sky buzzed by plane) and he was consistently derided and dismissed as a loon

    And yet Lo, here we are, the photo has emerged and he is vindicated entirely. He is allowed a few days of profitable gloating
    Oh he was never dismissed as a loon in the UFO community, nor by the press, hes always been the UK media's go to guy since the original 'UKs real Fox Muldur' story
    But he was deeply involved with the MoD and i suspect still follows their tune much like Lue Elizondo in the States. They are frontmen encouraging us to look at what is currently 'allowed out'. Lots of prosaic but non definitive stuff with a hint of 'its a threat, much funding required!'
    Thats clearly how the powers that be want the topic looked at right now, in the same way blue book were ordered to debunk everything at all costs publically whilst their actual thoughts and findings privately were different, its just a shift of narrative control.
    You onky have to look at the likes of Donald Keyhoe ca 1952 to see how the brakes were suddenly applied hard and we went into full debunk. Weve only just emerged from that into this 'oddities, threats, research!' reality
    Lol. "Oh he was never dismissed as a loon in the UFO community" I bet he wasn't. I am sure David Icke is not dismissed as a loon in the "people who believe in lizard people" community either.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,923

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    You SO want to believe don't you old chap! The truth is out there...... da da da da da da da da da
    The new image still looks like the top if a hill in a Loch with a chap in a rowing boat fishing.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,308
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    He doesn't use stooges.

    But I can assure you that there are hundreds of takes where his trick doesn't work. Those shots don't make it into the show.
    Definitely no stooges, one would have made themselves known by now.

    He’s usually superficially honest about numbers games, like when he hit 10 heads in a row coin tossing.
    You’re watching the last minute of TEN HOURS spent continually tossing the coin, but he was happy to have been the first person to have ever got ‘10 heads’ on film


    I saw his stage show, and it was brilliant. I only got one trick, and that was because of a well-placed theatre safety curtain at the interval, hiding for 10 minutes what should have been ‘in view the whole time’. He’s a genuine master of misdirection.

    Sometimes he screws up through, like with his lottery numbers camera trick, that everyone with any experience of digital travelling mattes called out immediately.
    Apparently there was going to be an amazing twist with the lottery trick, but they had to leave it out at the last minute because Camelot believed it would convince everyone that the lottery was a fix.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,743
    IshmaelZ said:

    algarkirk said:

    MISTY said:

    carnforth said:

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    Platty Joobs was funny because of its unnecessariness: we give nicknames like this to things which are commonplace, and the Platinum Jubilee was the opposite.

    “Crimbo” may be the oldest and worst offender.
    City/|Ville / town has some explaining to do as in

    Embarrassment City !

    Cringe Ville

    Awkward Town, population you bro...

    Perhaps these are expansions from 'Queer Street' - which is 200 years old at least, has no connection SFAICS with sexual meanings of the word 'queer'. It is used in Sherlock Holmes stories. I remember it being used in admonitory tones ('You will find yourself in Queer Street') by primary school teachers, c1965.

    Queer Street is Carey Street where the bankruptcy courts were.
    Thanks. 'On the road to Carey Street' is also proverbial.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Research from Ipsos shows 2 in 3 of Brits think the Government are not doing enough to help people through the cost of living crisis, including 6 in 10 who voted for the Conservatives in 2019

    More: https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/two-thirds-say-government-not-providing-enough-support-cost https://twitter.com/TrinhIpsosUK/status/1559867411293151232/photo/1

    I think the question is phrased wrongly. I don't want the Government to 'help me through the col crisis', though if I need such help I will accept it reluctantly. I want the Government to drive down the cost of living. That is quite different to giving me some of my own money back to make things a bit easier until we have to pay the inevitable bill. One has a positive long term impact, one has a negative one. I want to hear every week, potentially every day, of an initiative that the Government is taking that will drive down the col, on energy yes, but on other things too.

    Actions that would qualify: bringing new sources of energy on board and incentivising and enabling domestic suppliers to create more energy. Longer term projects to exploit UK oil, gas, and potentially coal, also local incinerator schemes revisited and greenlit. Longer term projects to create more renewables supply (tidal), and breaking ground on more power storage projects to even out supply. Re-open our gas storage within weeks not years. Temporary refitting of gas power stations to use more readily available fuels (someone here mentioned this yesterday). Bringing Iranian oil supply back on stream.

    New trade deals to drive down the price of food. An end to financial and other incentives for farmers to leave the industry, and/or 'rewild'.

    I would also look for a speedy exit to the Ukraine conflict, and the return of Russia to the European gas market, but I appreciate that that is unlikely politically.
    All really good ideas, until that last line.

    The only way the war gets resolved, is by the Russian army going back to Russia, and another Russian leader making a massive effort towards peace with the world. Until then, the HIMARS will keep raining down.
    Tbf to @Luckyguy1983 (and I hardly agree with him on anything) his last line does not state how the 'speedy exit to the Ukraine conflict' is to be obtained. Your route is the only way.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,041

    I would also look for a speedy exit to the Ukraine conflict, and the return of Russia to the European gas market, but I appreciate that that is unlikely politically.

    Indeed. I don't think Putin is going to quit any time soon either - although he really should.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,341
    edited August 2022
    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    algarkirk said:

    MISTY said:

    carnforth said:

    Regarding -erooni, this Tweet seems apposite.

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1532009692540567553?s=20&t=KlYp-YQhlq7LaeFOobSF9A

    People who use the term Platty Joobs no doubt also count down in sleeps till they go on their holibobs with their gawjus famalam to chillax and have a have totes amazeballs time because it’s like wine o’clock all the time so can legit go for a cray cray cheeky sesh whenevs babez.

    Platty Joobs was funny because of its unnecessariness: we give nicknames like this to things which are commonplace, and the Platinum Jubilee was the opposite.

    “Crimbo” may be the oldest and worst offender.
    City/|Ville / town has some explaining to do as in

    Embarrassment City !

    Cringe Ville

    Awkward Town, population you bro...

    Perhaps these are expansions from 'Queer Street' - which is 200 years old at least, has no connection SFAICS with sexual meanings of the word 'queer'. It is used in Sherlock Holmes stories. I remember it being used in admonitory tones ('You will find yourself in Queer Street') by primary school teachers, c1965.

    Queer Street is Carey Street where the bankruptcy courts were.
    Thanks. 'On the road to Carey Street' is also proverbial.

    Julian Carey St?
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited August 2022
    As we have shown repeatedly that H Sap is incapable of living in harmony with itself and with Nature, we seek a deus ex machina for salvation.

    But I am sure that there have been/are/will be other sentient creatures out there.

    Reminds me of the short story I read of an exploring alien ship that landed in Alaska and confronted a grizzly bear just out of hibernation, convincing them to explore elsewhere.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A slightly higher res version of the Calvine UFO photo

    The two major prosaic explanations: rock in a loch, or mountaintop, have now been largely dismissed

    The location of the photo does not fit the rock, the weather does not fit the mountaintop (there are several other objections, too)

    Which leaves the alternative hypotheses that


    1. This is all a highly elaborate hoax, extending over decades

    or

    2. That really is something odd, floating in the Scottish sky


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCOQiQKciRJsZ4pm26hdrFuVv1uzMk-k/view

    Im leaning towards US tech, although i'm unsure why they are flying it over Pitlochry. The same problem with the triangle flap over Belgium around the same time.
    Although the two combined might suggest black ops US decided to trial some newer 'kit' around the end of the Reagan era.
    Lower chance, 'Them'
    I have no idea

    But I've noticed that, when I look at the image now, my gorilla-on-a-basketball-court-ignoring-brain no longer jumps immediately to rock-in-a-loch or mountain-in-clouds

    I see something peculiar in the sky. Or a hoax

    Indeed now we have the slightly higher res image, the idea it is a mountain top with cloud inversion is ridiculous, which makes me wonder why I ever entertained it as an explanation. Are we biased towards the prosaic? Is this normalcy bias of the eyes?

    Gun to head, right now I'd agree with you. The hoax would have to be extremely elaborate and involve hundreds of people working together from 1990, and for what?

    So that is a strange aircraft, in the sky over Calvine. Is my hunch as of now
    The hoax can be a simple as an object thrown in the sky and a photo taken. The evidence we have is NOT six photos and the negatives, it is one photo and NO negatives. Everything else is distraction unless it turns up.

    Derren Brown doesn't use stooges he says. Do you believe him? I don't.
    You are ignoring all the eye-witness accounts PLUS the MoD investigation, which concluded that these are legit images of a significant size aircraft of unknown origin, in the sky. Not a kite or a frisbee. They had their best people scrutinise the images, experts in the field

    I guess all this could be lies AS WELL but at some point the extended tissue of lies is stretched to breaking point on Occams Razorooni
    My major issue is how much Nick Pope has always bigged this up ftom well before the photo went public. Hes an MOD man and still plays the 'can neither confirm or deny' shoboggins, he's still a govt man at heart. So i have suspicions this, like gimbal and tic tac is a 'look over here, not over here' thing. Pope is a big pusher of the 'possible defence threat' narrative (aka more money for defence projects please)
    Well yes, but then again he always said these photos existed, he always told us what they looked like (big diamond thing in grey sky buzzed by plane) and he was consistently derided and dismissed as a loon

    And yet Lo, here we are, the photo has emerged and he is vindicated entirely. He is allowed a few days of profitable gloating
    Oh he was never dismissed as a loon in the UFO community, nor by the press, hes always been the UK media's go to guy since the original 'UKs real Fox Muldur' story
    But he was deeply involved with the MoD and i suspect still follows their tune much like Lue Elizondo in the States. They are frontmen encouraging us to look at what is currently 'allowed out'. Lots of prosaic but non definitive stuff with a hint of 'its a threat, much funding required!'
    Thats clearly how the powers that be want the topic looked at right now, in the same way blue book were ordered to debunk everything at all costs publically whilst their actual thoughts and findings privately were different, its just a shift of narrative control.
    You onky have to look at the likes of Donald Keyhoe ca 1952 to see how the brakes were suddenly applied hard and we went into full debunk. Weve only just emerged from that into this 'oddities, threats, research!' reality
    Lol. "Oh he was never dismissed as a loon in the UFO community" I bet he wasn't. I am sure David Icke is not dismissed as a loon in the "people who believe in lizard people" community either.
    Clearly you're a convinced skeptic

    So what do you think is in the Calvine photo?
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