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The Truss view of “British Workers” could be an electoral liability – politicalbetting.com

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  • Membership will be a good 100k over inflated as well as in arrears are counted as Members for 6 months

    SKS Bankrupting Labour as well as being intellectually and morally bankrupt personally


    Great stuff

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20667711.uk-labour-party-haemorrhaging-funds-members-accounts-reveal/

    Complaints about moral bankruptcy from the one man left on this site to still support the raging antisemite Jeremy Corbyn even after the report EHRC report came out is somewhat bemusing.

    If Jeremy Corbyn is what you think of as "moral" then I'd go for morally bankrupt all day every day and twice on Thursdays.
    EHRC report clears Corbyn

    Forde Report clears Corbyn and says AS used as a factional tool by CHB types!

    You left. I left. A whole stack of people left. Now you won't vote Labour and hope the Tories win. I won't vote Labour and hope the Tories lose.

    Being in opposition for ever isn't what the Labour Party is about. That you don't get that is why its probably best for both sides that you left.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:
    That is quite insane


    It's one room. In Taplow. £130k!
    We will find Horse his dream home.
    Got it. He's just gotta go a couple of miles north, to Jarrow

    Three beds, spacious, pleasant neighborhood, £5,000


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/125093444#/?channel=RES_BUY
    But then he’d have to live in Jarrow…
    Or he could buy a buy to let there and use the rental income to help him rent in London while still earning a London wage
  • Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Will they fuck.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    edited August 2022
    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Did you see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-62549430

  • Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,687
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:
    That is quite insane


    It's one room. In Taplow. £130k!
    We will find Horse his dream home.
    Got it. He's just gotta go a couple of miles north, to Jarrow

    Three beds, spacious, pleasant neighborhood, £5,000


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/125093444#/?channel=RES_BUY
    But then he’d have to live in Jarrow…
    Or he could buy a buy to let there and use the rental income to help him rent in London while still earning a London wage
    What’s the average ROI on a Jarrow/Washington flat?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,341
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Janan Ganesh in the FT has Woken up



    "It is there, too, in the growing denial that something has gone very wrong with identity politics. When a liberal says, “There is no culture war,” what I hear is: “Please let there be no culture war. Otherwise, I shall have to fall out with my friends, stand up to my children, upset my employees. Or worse, go along with them and feel a coward.” Even if it is true that 2020 will turn out to be peak woke, it is because people — writers, comedians — took a stand. A conflict was recognised, and engaged. Those who looked away at the time don’t get to turn up now and pronounce the whole thing overblown. The poet Robert Frost once defined a liberal as someone who wouldn’t take their own side in a quarrel. It is increasingly a feat to recognise the quarrel.

    "Another liberal parry is to say that cancel culture is a distraction from the economic crisis. And perhaps it is. But then one novelist’s torment was a distraction in the not notably quiet year of 1989. There will always be a reason to dodge a subject. In the end, “salience” aside, what do you think about it?"


    https://www.ft.com/content/8700151d-eaff-44bd-a6ec-aea1895db361

    He is deluded in his forlorn hope that we might have passed Peak Woke. This psychological defence mechanism - a form of denial, because pain - was identified in the Spectator a year ago



    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-if-wokeness-really-is-the-new-christianity-

    This article by the lawyer involved in the Forstater case is very well worth reading on its implications, why identity issues have become so toxic and also on how competing views can be sensibly managed. Long but essential reading.

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/morality-plays-lessons-forstater-peter-daly
    Is it a job requirement for lawyers, that when penning philosophical essays, they have to write 80,000 words minimum?

    That started well but by the 17th chapter my eyes glazed over. A good writer would have reduced it by 90%
    What a wimp you are. I regularly read legal judgments that are much longer, and for good reason.

    An analysis of a complicated legal judgment cannot be reduced to a few simplistic slogans. That is part of the problem which has given rise to many of the issues and far too much commentary on them.

    It is considerably better written and more interesting and thoughtful than the sorts of trashy novels that litter most bookshops.

    But if you want the short analysis my header yesterday is a good start and only 795 words. 😀
    No, the writing is poor

    I can actually give you an example

    In paragraph ten he says

    "The extension of this is that anyone who doesn’t share the moral code is as. a matter of ineluctable logic, inevitably morally wrong. Such organisations avail themselves of, as Sonia Sodha terms it, “the luxury of childishly dividing the world into goodies and baddies”."

    (A really clumsy collision between "inevitable" and "ineluctable" there. This is an amateur striving to write fancy prose)

    About 2000 words later he says:

    "In an article for the Observer in 2021, Sonia Sodha identified that the “naivety [of those who pursue a moral binary] gives them the luxury of childishly dividing the world into goodies and baddies”."

    Clearly forgetting that he has already used this exact quote. Embarrassingly bad. Shoddy writing. 2/10

    If your writing is that poor, I have next to no interest in your opinion, Shape up, Mr Daily!
    Yes I noticed that repetition too.

    But the point is that this is not striving to be a piece of literary prose but to explain the implications of a complicated legal judgment and why so many organizations have got themselves into a mess over these issues. It does that pretty well, especially given how long and complicated the judgment is. It is I will accept that it is mainly aimed at lawyers rather that flint knapper bloggers.

    But tell you what, why don't you critique this - which I wrote some months back - on two also quite complicated - but important - legal cases?

    https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679

    It is a lot shorter and resulted in me being invited to write a shorter piece for another publication, which received a lot of praise. (You can find this here, if interested - https://www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2022/06/14/what-finance-can-tell-us-about-the-trans-self-id-debate/).

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    In London cyclists just ignore red lights, why don't we do something about that?

    It's very annoying. I don't know why London cyclists think they're different to cyclists everywhere else who do obey red lights. When I'm walking in London I deliberately try to cross the street in a way that gets in the way of cyclists trying to do it.

    But I don't think cyclists everywhere else should be forced to have numberplates, insurance, etc, just because of the bad behaviour of London cyclists.
    I cycled for the best part of 40 years in London. My husband was nearly killed by a car which left the scene of the accident and was left with serious head and face injuries. My son cycles to work. All of us have had accidents caused by thoughtless drivers. I could fill PAGES with examples of bad behaviour by cars, vans, lorries and, yes, pedestrians.

    If the number plates could be 2 metres wide with spikes at each end at just the height that they would scratch a car coming too close or someone opening a car door or stepping out in the road without looking, then I'd be all in favour.
    Number plates is absurd and the usual drivel you get from motorists with an anti cyclist agenda. The story in the Mail today is just silly season guff

    Insurance makes sense for a cyclist. I have liability insurance through my membership of Cycling UK.

    If a cyclist thinks they do not need insurance then they are being unwise

    https://lennonssolicitors.co.uk/article/brushett-v-hazeldean-the-perils-of-cycling-without-insurance/
    Would it not make more sense to have something like the MIB that pays out if you are hit by an uninsured driver?
    Yes but how would it be funded as MIB is currently funded by insurers who underwrite motor insurance ?

    I keep thinking this discussion is about Will Smith and colleagues and getting confused…

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Its not just the UK.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Aside of the CoL news, everything for me seems fine. I note the stories yesterday (?) of US travellers being wary of the state of the nation and I suspect there is a lot of bullshit being pumped out in the states about the UK.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Highly partial

    I've been all over London these last weeks, meeting friends, catching up. Place looks fine. Prosperous, sunny, hedonistic, the swaggering world city as ever. And on my jaunts out of London Britain looks fairly contented, as well. No disasters, no wolves whelping, no lepers

    However there are deeply ominous signs for the winter, but that is true for the whole of the west, and perhaps the world
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853
    Jesus 5th September seems so far away ><

    Why is this contest going on so long ?

    I want my money lol.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    edited August 2022
    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,616

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:
    That is quite insane


    It's one room. In Taplow. £130k!
    We will find Horse his dream home.
    Got it. He's just gotta go a couple of miles north, to Jarrow

    Three beds, spacious, pleasant neighborhood, £5,000


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/125093444#/?channel=RES_BUY
    But then he’d have to live in Jarrow…
    Horse works in it same as me, I was looking for a new job a couple of months ago and there are huge numbers of remote roles paying over 50k. He could live anywhere in the country and still do the same sort of job at the same wage now. Just as I have done. The fact is you fit your accomodation to your salary depending upon your preferences. Horse prefers living in London over buying a house simple as that.
  • Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Stop press: Liz Truss is wearing an emerald pendant.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,258
    edited August 2022
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    In London cyclists just ignore red lights, why don't we do something about that?

    It's very annoying. I don't know why London cyclists think they're different to cyclists everywhere else who do obey red lights. When I'm walking in London I deliberately try to cross the street in a way that gets in the way of cyclists trying to do it.

    But I don't think cyclists everywhere else should be forced to have numberplates, insurance, etc, just because of the bad behaviour of London cyclists.
    I cycled for the best part of 40 years in London. My husband was nearly killed by a car which left the scene of the accident and was left with serious head and face injuries. My son cycles to work. All of us have had accidents caused by thoughtless drivers. I could fill PAGES with examples of bad behaviour by cars, vans, lorries and, yes, pedestrians.

    If the number plates could be 2 metres wide with spikes at each end at just the height that they would scratch a car coming too close or someone opening a car door or stepping out in the road without looking, then I'd be all in favour.
    Number plates is absurd and the usual drivel you get from motorists with an anti cyclist agenda. The story in the Mail today is just silly season guff

    Insurance makes sense for a cyclist. I have liability insurance through my membership of Cycling UK.

    If a cyclist thinks they do not need insurance then they are being unwise

    https://lennonssolicitors.co.uk/article/brushett-v-hazeldean-the-perils-of-cycling-without-insurance/
    Would it not make more sense to have something like the MIB that pays out if you are hit by an uninsured driver?
    Yes but how would it be funded as MIB is currently funded by insurers who underwrite motor insurance ?

    What would we be talking? MIB budget is £300m ish a year. Cyclists cant be much more than 10% of that so £30m a year? Just a government grant to encourage cycling. Let the MIB manage it to minimise any admin costs.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Aside of the CoL news, everything for me seems fine. I note the stories yesterday (?) of US travellers being wary of the state of the nation and I suspect there is a lot of bullshit being pumped out in the states about the UK.
    I don’t read US media, though.
    I still read UK stuff - Guardian, Beeb, FT, PB, and Twitter people both left and right.

    It’s profoundly depressing.

    The US is of course totally fucked - politically at least - but quality of life for the “middle classes” is actually pretty good, and things work or don’t work as they seemingly always have.

    The UK appears to be in terminal velocity.
    Perhaps British commentators are naturally pessimistic.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,280

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Did you see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-62549430

    I was hoping someone might summarise so I didn't have to watch myself.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    edited August 2022

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,258

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    In London cyclists just ignore red lights, why don't we do something about that?

    It's very annoying. I don't know why London cyclists think they're different to cyclists everywhere else who do obey red lights. When I'm walking in London I deliberately try to cross the street in a way that gets in the way of cyclists trying to do it.

    But I don't think cyclists everywhere else should be forced to have numberplates, insurance, etc, just because of the bad behaviour of London cyclists.
    I cycled for the best part of 40 years in London. My husband was nearly killed by a car which left the scene of the accident and was left with serious head and face injuries. My son cycles to work. All of us have had accidents caused by thoughtless drivers. I could fill PAGES with examples of bad behaviour by cars, vans, lorries and, yes, pedestrians.

    If the number plates could be 2 metres wide with spikes at each end at just the height that they would scratch a car coming too close or someone opening a car door or stepping out in the road without looking, then I'd be all in favour.
    Number plates is absurd and the usual drivel you get from motorists with an anti cyclist agenda. The story in the Mail today is just silly season guff

    Insurance makes sense for a cyclist. I have liability insurance through my membership of Cycling UK.

    If a cyclist thinks they do not need insurance then they are being unwise

    https://lennonssolicitors.co.uk/article/brushett-v-hazeldean-the-perils-of-cycling-without-insurance/
    Would it not make more sense to have something like the MIB that pays out if you are hit by an uninsured driver?
    Yes but how would it be funded as MIB is currently funded by insurers who underwrite motor insurance ?

    I keep thinking this discussion is about Will Smith and colleagues and getting confused…

    Don't get Leon started again please. Aliens is not due another frenzied discussion until at least next Tuesday.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    HYUFD said:

    Interestingly UK workers now work on average less hours than not only the OECD but EU average. So maybe Truss has a point

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours

    Does this not just reflect that we have more part time and casual workers than average?
  • Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,258
    Leon said:

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Highly partial

    I've been all over London these last weeks, meeting friends, catching up. Place looks fine. Prosperous, sunny, hedonistic, the swaggering world city as ever. And on my jaunts out of London Britain looks fairly contented, as well. No disasters, no wolves whelping, no lepers

    However there are deeply ominous signs for the winter, but that is true for the whole of the west, and perhaps the world
    Biggest moan recently has been the weather, too hot. Then cost of living. Then train strikes. Life is pretty good for most, but the winter is undoubtedly going to be tough and expect the mood to change then.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Leon said:

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Highly partial

    I've been all over London these last weeks, meeting friends, catching up. Place looks fine. Prosperous, sunny, hedonistic, the swaggering world city as ever. And on my jaunts out of London Britain looks fairly contented, as well. No disasters, no wolves whelping, no lepers

    However there are deeply ominous signs for the winter, but that is true for the whole of the west, and perhaps the world
    Pessimistically speaking we are here......
    Maybe there was a murmur in the village streets, a novel and dominant topic in the public-houses, and here and there a messenger, or even an eye-witness of the later occurrences, caused a whirl of excitement, a shouting, and a running to and fro; but for the most part the daily routine of working, eating, drinking, sleeping, went on as it had done for countless years—as though no planet Mars existed in the sky. Even at Woking station and Horsell and Chobham that was the case.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Do you think it would still have majority support absent the grace periods, for example the grace period on parcels?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,435

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Aside of the CoL news, everything for me seems fine. I note the stories yesterday (?) of US travellers being wary of the state of the nation and I suspect there is a lot of bullshit being pumped out in the states about the UK.
    I don’t read US media, though.
    I still read UK stuff - Guardian, Beeb, FT, PB, and Twitter people both left and right.

    It’s profoundly depressing.

    The US is of course totally fucked - politically at least - but quality of life for the “middle classes” is actually pretty good, and things work or don’t work as they seemingly always have.

    The UK appears to be in terminal velocity.
    Perhaps British commentators are naturally pessimistic.
    Most people I know are aware of the problems but are holding off in hope that something will be sorted before the winter fuel bills hit. The inflation problem is also an issue as saving soon become worthless.

    Add to that the fact the nearly every major UK company is foreign owned and the country has just become a pipeline to build up the profits of companies aboard. The country is definitely f**ked, but more like a slow motion car crash.

    It would be nice if Ms Truss could come up with anything remotely like a workable plan, but ....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    That is precisely my question.

    The US is mostly protected from this.
    My electricity bill hasn’t really changed at all since I arrived, and it’s incredibly low.
    Petrol is obviously a lot cheaper.

    You’ve just said that London is booming, which is reassuring, but how does this square with the stark economic realities?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    edited August 2022

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    Imagine the scenes if the Johnson government had not moved with the Western government policy convoy system on lockdown and furlough

    Only Sweden and Florida demurred. There were countless frantic attempts on here, to almost universal applause, to discredit the approaches of both. There were also countless frantic attempts to discredit academics like Carl Heneghan and Sunetra Gupta, sometimes ad hominem insults.

    Many people on here consider themselves independent thinkers, but in truth this site was as much caught up in the madness of it all as the Morgans and the Rigbys.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Aside of the CoL news, everything for me seems fine. I note the stories yesterday (?) of US travellers being wary of the state of the nation and I suspect there is a lot of bullshit being pumped out in the states about the UK.
    I don’t read US media, though.
    I still read UK stuff - Guardian, Beeb, FT, PB, and Twitter people both left and right.

    It’s profoundly depressing.

    The US is of course totally fucked - politically at least - but quality of life for the “middle classes” is actually pretty good, and things work or don’t work as they seemingly always have.

    The UK appears to be in terminal velocity.
    Perhaps British commentators are naturally pessimistic.
    Honestly, it's all nonsense

    And if your intake is mainly the Guardian, Twitter and the Beeb then it is no wonder you have a warped view

    I was discussing this very thing with a friend the other day. He said, and I quote "Every single story in the Guardian is depressing". And he's right. If the story isn't about some dire racial injustice it's a moan about a Brexit problem or a critique of the entire nation or a savage attack on blah blah or a series of photos of blighted housing estates to cheer you up.

    It is no more representative of what Britain is really like than the Daily Express. The Guardian has descended from being the Daily Mail of the Left to being the Daily Express, which would have you think we are all Diana conspiracy theorists awaiting the coldest winter in 8000 years

    The Beeb is a duller version of this and Twitter is Twitter. Ignore
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Aside of the CoL news, everything for me seems fine. I note the stories yesterday (?) of US travellers being wary of the state of the nation and I suspect there is a lot of bullshit being pumped out in the states about the UK.
    I don’t read US media, though.
    I still read UK stuff - Guardian, Beeb, FT, PB, and Twitter people both left and right.

    It’s profoundly depressing.

    The US is of course totally fucked - politically at least - but quality of life for the “middle classes” is actually pretty good, and things work or don’t work as they seemingly always have.

    The UK appears to be in terminal velocity.
    Perhaps British commentators are naturally pessimistic.
    I'd perhaps check your curation of data. The Guardian and the BBC are relentlessly negative, and the FT, naturally is going to be down on things as the CoL crisis is THE story.

    Day to day life, however, is pretty good. Look at the football - happy crowds, no masks, people enjoying themselves. People are having holidays as normal again.

    There is perhaps a sense that this is the calm before the storm, and party now because winter will be grim. Maybe, but the idea that the nation is somehow falling apart is no more true now that at any other time in the last 100 years. There are multiple problems, and many not easy to solve. But we will try.

    The media and particular social media, do not do good news. Twitter etc is so polarised. There is no nuance, or depth. I responded to a twitter post blaming the current drought on climate change. I pointed out that although temps have risen, we have had droughts before (1976 as a good example) as droughts are driven by weather patterns. Boy did that get both sides raging. No attempt to debate, to consider that my view is reasonable, just full on accusation of denier status and stupidity. Thats twitter.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    edited August 2022

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    It’s worse than that. What’s actually more important is the public’s perception of this being an international crisis, or purely a British one. If the UK media doesn’t report on German power cuts and Dutch farmers rioting, did they even happen?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    That is precisely my question.

    The US is mostly protected from this.
    My electricity bill hasn’t really changed at all since I arrived, and it’s incredibly low.
    Petrol is obviously a lot cheaper.

    You’ve just said that London is booming, which is reassuring, but how does this square with the stark economic realities?
    It's a proper conundrum. My head tells me some terrible stuff is coming down the line. It must be. For all Europe and beyond

    My eyes tell me, WTF London looks fine. But I guess Paris looked fine in the summer of 1939?

    It causes cognitive dissonance
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460
    Sandpit said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    It’s worse than that. What’s actually more important is the public’s perception of this being an international crisis, or purely a British one. If the media doesn’t report on German power cuts and Dutch farmers rioting, did they even happen?
    The German stuff is quite widely reported, to be fair.

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,256
    An interesting programme on TV last night. Putin bears grudges against traitors. We had noticed, and when he's not menacing random Ukrainians, especially those competing against Soviet stooges, he send groups of spies out to poison any ex-soviets he dislikes.

    Another great piece of judgement by the barmy old git, and ex-leader of the Labour Party. We dodged a bullet there. Anyone who supported him should hang their head in shame.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    Business generally cannot survive the energy crisis without massive intervention. On top of us not being able to survive it and requiring massive intervention.
    Something has to give. History suggests to me someone will let slip the dogs beyond the current unhappy bounds they fight in
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    NEW: Research from Ipsos shows 2 in 3 of Brits think the Government are not doing enough to help people through the cost of living crisis, including 6 in 10 who voted for the Conservatives in 2019

    More: https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/two-thirds-say-government-not-providing-enough-support-cost https://twitter.com/TrinhIpsosUK/status/1559867411293151232/photo/1
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,317

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    The decline in standards of governance in just 10 years has been truly alarming. I really hope that Starmer will do something to reverse that.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    MISTY said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    Imagine the scenes if the Johnson government had not moved with the Western government policy convoy system on lockdown and furlough

    Only Sweden and Florida demurred. There were countless frantic attempts on here, to almost universal applause, to discredit the approaches of both. There were also countless frantic attempts to discredit academics like Carl Heneghan and Sunetra Gupta, sometimes ad hominem insults.

    Many people on here consider themselves independent thinkers, but in truth this site was as much caught up in the madness of it all as the Morgans and the Rigbys.
    Sadly i wasnt here on peebee during lockdown to witness it
  • CD13 said:

    An interesting programme on TV last night. Putin bears grudges against traitors. We had noticed, and when he's not menacing random Ukrainians, especially those competing against Soviet stooges, he send groups of spies out to poison any ex-soviets he dislikes.

    Another great piece of judgement by the barmy old git, and ex-leader of the Labour Party. We dodged a bullet there. Anyone who supported him should hang their head in shame.

    It wasn't the barmy old git taking millions from Putin's henchmen, or putting them in the House of Lords.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,955
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    That is precisely my question.

    The US is mostly protected from this.
    My electricity bill hasn’t really changed at all since I arrived, and it’s incredibly low.
    Petrol is obviously a lot cheaper.

    You’ve just said that London is booming, which is reassuring, but how does this square with the stark economic realities?
    It's a proper conundrum. My head tells me some terrible stuff is coming down the line. It must be. For all Europe and beyond

    My eyes tell me, WTF London looks fine. But I guess Paris looked fine in the summer of 1939?

    It causes cognitive dissonance
    Part of the story is that a lot of the people you see out and about in the chichi bits of London that you frequent are either tourists or rich enough that they can afford to pay an extra £3k a year in utility bills without cutting back on their other spending. There are millions of people in London who will be absolutely crushed by this but they are not drinking four pound lattes in Primrose Hill.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    That is precisely my question.

    The US is mostly protected from this.
    My electricity bill hasn’t really changed at all since I arrived, and it’s incredibly low.
    Petrol is obviously a lot cheaper.

    You’ve just said that London is booming, which is reassuring, but how does this square with the stark economic realities?
    It's a proper conundrum. My head tells me some terrible stuff is coming down the line. It must be. For all Europe and beyond

    My eyes tell me, WTF London looks fine. But I guess Paris looked fine in the summer of 1939?

    It causes cognitive dissonance
    Part of the story is that a lot of the people you see out and about in the chichi bits of London that you frequent are either tourists or rich enough that they can afford to pay an extra £3k a year in utility bills without cutting back on their other spending. There are millions of people in London who will be absolutely crushed by this but they are not drinking four pound lattes in Primrose Hill.
    Yes, but I don't restrict myself to Primrose Hill

    Camden Town is a huge mix of races, ages, genders. It is as busy as ever, if not busier. Lots of local young people spending. No sense of alarm, yet

    Repeat across London
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,256
    Mr JohnL,

    "It wasn't the barmy old git taking millions from Putin's henchmen, or putting them in the House of Lords."

    Indeed not. But how many did those people poison. or declare war on?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Research from Ipsos shows 2 in 3 of Brits think the Government are not doing enough to help people through the cost of living crisis, including 6 in 10 who voted for the Conservatives in 2019

    More: https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/two-thirds-say-government-not-providing-enough-support-cost https://twitter.com/TrinhIpsosUK/status/1559867411293151232/photo/1


    Attempts to bounce Liz into the Brownite orthodoxy are at fever pitch.

    Let's hope she resists. We need to ensure voters get a choice at the next election.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Research from Ipsos shows 2 in 3 of Brits think the Government are not doing enough to help people through the cost of living crisis, including 6 in 10 who voted for the Conservatives in 2019

    More: https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/two-thirds-say-government-not-providing-enough-support-cost https://twitter.com/TrinhIpsosUK/status/1559867411293151232/photo/1

    I'm amazed its that low.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 274
    pm215 said:

    PJH said:

    One of the advantages of working from home is that it kills the myth of presenteeism, which often leads to people filling up their time with non-productive busywork.

    On the other hand if done badly you can end up with what a recent Erza Klein podcast termed "LARPing your job", where you spend all your time on email and in instant messaging and Zoom meetings so it "looks like" you're working, at the expense of actually doing the real work... WFH isn't a magic fix for bad management and lack of trust and jobs with poor job security, which I think are the underlying causes of presenteeism.
    Indeed, WFH doesn't always help and can make things worse. My point was that with a list of worthwhile things to do, and no need to 'appear' busy, you can just crack on. Enlightened management would be the same in the office too. I'm lucky that where I work now, that is true - you are given some stuff to deliver, agree when you'll do it and are left to get on with it.
  • CD13 said:

    An interesting programme on TV last night. Putin bears grudges against traitors. We had noticed, and when he's not menacing random Ukrainians, especially those competing against Soviet stooges, he send groups of spies out to poison any ex-soviets he dislikes.

    Another great piece of judgement by the barmy old git, and ex-leader of the Labour Party. We dodged a bullet there. Anyone who supported him should hang their head in shame.

    It wasn't the barmy old git taking millions from Putin's henchmen, or putting them in the House of Lords.
    You're right the barmy old git was worse, he was doing Putin's bidding because he was a true believer, while the Tories were allegedly taking millions away from Russia (supposedly) while doing everything to oppose Putin.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    Business generally cannot survive the energy crisis without massive intervention. On top of us not being able to survive it and requiring massive intervention.
    Something has to give. History suggests to me someone will let slip the dogs beyond the current unhappy bounds they fight in
    And what does that final sentence mean? This is not a time for coded commentary
  • Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Where is @Sunil_Prasannan when we need him? Isn't Angel lifts-only (not escalators) between platforms and surface? Would that be a factor?

    Ah, TfL says Angel was sacrificed in order to keep open Old Street station (Silicon Roundabout & Moorfields Eye Hospital).
    https://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/traffic/angel-station-closed-9213768
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    Business generally cannot survive the energy crisis without massive intervention. On top of us not being able to survive it and requiring massive intervention.
    Something has to give. History suggests to me someone will let slip the dogs beyond the current unhappy bounds they fight in
    And what does that final sentence mean? This is not a time for coded commentary
    War is often used to solve economic crisis. So i mean the war in Ukraine spreading outside Ukraine and engulfing the West. An escalation to WW3.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    Relatedly,

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    That is precisely my question.

    The US is mostly protected from this.
    My electricity bill hasn’t really changed at all since I arrived, and it’s incredibly low.
    Petrol is obviously a lot cheaper.

    You’ve just said that London is booming, which is reassuring, but how does this square with the stark economic realities?
    It's a proper conundrum. My head tells me some terrible stuff is coming down the line. It must be. For all Europe and beyond

    My eyes tell me, WTF London looks fine. But I guess Paris looked fine in the summer of 1939?

    It causes cognitive dissonance
    Part of the story is that a lot of the people you see out and about in the chichi bits of London that you frequent are either tourists or rich enough that they can afford to pay an extra £3k a year in utility bills without cutting back on their other spending. There are millions of people in London who will be absolutely crushed by this but they are not drinking four pound lattes in Primrose Hill.
    What’s the view down Skehan’s?
    I would view that (as you’ve said, quite good pub) as a decent proxy for ordinary London.
  • Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    There's quite a lot that's straining pretty badly, depending on which of the two nations you are in;

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/08/16/james-frayne-five-ways-for-the-government-to-navigate-the-looming-winter-of-discontent/

    26 per cent have nothing – or less than nothing – left at the end of each month (35 per cent of DE voters);
    29 per cent have savings that would last less than a month if the main earner lost their job (40 per cent of DE voters);
    22 per cent say they can’t afford any more outgoings at all (32 per cent of DE voters);
    70 per cent of voters are personally taking action to deal with price rises...

    There just seems to be this sense that Brexit kicked off years of chaos, and it’d be nice to go back to the mid-2010s with a calm and competent leader, etc.


    (It's a good piece, with something to annoy everyone.)

    And a lot of the public realm feels shabby; tatty, tired and can't get the staff.

    You know that line near the end of Animal Farm, how the farm got richer without the animals getting richer? There's a bit of that.

    We don't need emergency aid, though.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Did you see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-62549430

    I was hoping someone might summarise so I didn't have to watch myself.
    BBC live blog: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-62566833
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,927
    edited August 2022

    CD13 said:

    An interesting programme on TV last night. Putin bears grudges against traitors. We had noticed, and when he's not menacing random Ukrainians, especially those competing against Soviet stooges, he send groups of spies out to poison any ex-soviets he dislikes.

    Another great piece of judgement by the barmy old git, and ex-leader of the Labour Party. We dodged a bullet there. Anyone who supported him should hang their head in shame.

    It wasn't the barmy old git taking millions from Putin's henchmen, or putting them in the House of Lords.
    You're right the barmy old git was worse, he was doing Putin's bidding because he was a true believer, while the Tories were allegedly taking millions away from Russia (supposedly) while doing everything to oppose Putin.
    Opposing Putin by letting his henchmen run newspapers, have an inside track to lobby the government and see government papers in the House of Lords? Even our response to Salisbury was less than Europe and America, and less than asked for by, erm, Jeremy Corbyn.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    Sticky and humid on the Primrose Hill borderlands, today
  • Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    We're already seeing shops and food outlets reducing their opening hours. Faced with making a loss every minute they are trading and trying to concentrate their business into less hours, they have no choice.

    Yes, the consumer bills disaster will rightly get the headlines. But the colour commentary will add that so many businesses are on short hours or shuttered or bust. In addition to the usual inability to have working schools, medical appointments, trains, DVLA and the Passport office etc etc.

    Country is already falling apart. And we're about to get Mistress Truss doing nothing whilst insisting that a borrowed money tax cut for the well off is the only action needed.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,908
    Labour and LD will have Truss's 'Boris Johnson was a great PM" (or whatever the exact quote was) on repeat come the GE
  • Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Jesus 5th September seems so far away ><

    Why is this contest going on so long ?

    I want my money lol.

    Still time for Sunak to turn this ar.....

    Sorry, can't keep a straight face.
  • Hustings: Rishi is on now and reprising his usual schtick about his mum's chemist shop. Nothing about Northern Ireland yet.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,230
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    That is precisely my question.

    The US is mostly protected from this.
    My electricity bill hasn’t really changed at all since I arrived, and it’s incredibly low.
    Petrol is obviously a lot cheaper.

    You’ve just said that London is booming, which is reassuring, but how does this square with the stark economic realities?
    It's a proper conundrum. My head tells me some terrible stuff is coming down the line. It must be. For all Europe and beyond

    My eyes tell me, WTF London looks fine. But I guess Paris looked fine in the summer of 1939?

    It causes cognitive dissonance
    Part of the story is that a lot of the people you see out and about in the chichi bits of London that you frequent are either tourists or rich enough that they can afford to pay an extra £3k a year in utility bills without cutting back on their other spending. There are millions of people in London who will be absolutely crushed by this but they are not drinking four pound lattes in Primrose Hill.
    Yes, but I don't restrict myself to Primrose Hill

    Camden Town is a huge mix of races, ages, genders. It is as busy as ever, if not busier. Lots of local young people spending. No sense of alarm, yet

    Repeat across London
    See it up here too.
    And yet. The numbers just don't add up for a vast percentage of the population.
    People can't/won't/don't want to believe the predictions. August 26 when the actual price cap is revealed may be an inflection point.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    We're already seeing shops and food outlets reducing their opening hours. Faced with making a loss every minute they are trading and trying to concentrate their business into less hours, they have no choice.

    Yes, the consumer bills disaster will rightly get the headlines. But the colour commentary will add that so many businesses are on short hours or shuttered or bust. In addition to the usual inability to have working schools, medical appointments, trains, DVLA and the Passport office etc etc.

    Country is already falling apart. And we're about to get Mistress Truss doing nothing whilst insisting that a borrowed money tax cut for the well off is the only action needed.
    Is it the end for the almost always open One Stop :( ?
  • Just listened to that Liz Truss NI hustings and she was twice questioned by people who want to re-criminalise "infanticide" (as one put it) and restrict abortion (as another put it).

    Very glad to hear she didn't equivocate or pander to what the questioners wanted to here, she was unequivocal in dismissing them. Good. Sometimes we need to tell people "no, you're not getting what you want from me" and that is a case in point. 👍
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,393
    Could someone answer me this: whenever there's a problem involving a minority of people, why is the solution always to impose new rules on everyone? I'm thinking of the bike number plate idea.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jesus 5th September seems so far away ><

    Why is this contest going on so long ?

    I want my money lol.

    Still time for Sunak to turn this ar.....

    Sorry, can't keep a straight face.
    He better not or I'm in big trouble lol.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    We're already seeing shops and food outlets reducing their opening hours. Faced with making a loss every minute they are trading and trying to concentrate their business into less hours, they have no choice.

    Yes, the consumer bills disaster will rightly get the headlines. But the colour commentary will add that so many businesses are on short hours or shuttered or bust. In addition to the usual inability to have working schools, medical appointments, trains, DVLA and the Passport office etc etc.

    Country is already falling apart. And we're about to get Mistress Truss doing nothing whilst insisting that a borrowed money tax cut for the well off is the only action needed.
    'If i had a job i'd be a tenner a week better off!'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    We're already seeing shops and food outlets reducing their opening hours. Faced with making a loss every minute they are trading and trying to concentrate their business into less hours, they have no choice.

    Yes, the consumer bills disaster will rightly get the headlines. But the colour commentary will add that so many businesses are on short hours or shuttered or bust. In addition to the usual inability to have working schools, medical appointments, trains, DVLA and the Passport office etc etc.

    Country is already falling apart. And we're about to get Mistress Truss doing nothing whilst insisting that a borrowed money tax cut for the well off is the only action needed.
    The country is not "already falling apart"

    Ukraine is falling apart. Syria has fallen apart. Sri Lanka is a bit fucked

    Britain is a powerful and prosperous country. We will cope

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,908

    Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Truss made a comment along the lines of "and that is why people in NI will vote Conservative". Assume she does realise they won't, what was it - 5k votes at 2019 GE?
  • Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,280
    If gas prices are so terrible what is the possibility for using alternative energy sources? The oil price has started coming down again. Now $86 for WTI crude.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,908
    edited August 2022

    Just listened to that Liz Truss NI hustings and she was twice questioned by people who want to re-criminalise "infanticide" (as one put it) and restrict abortion (as another put it).

    Very glad to hear she didn't equivocate or pander to what the questioners wanted to here, she was unequivocal in dismissing them. Good. Sometimes we need to tell people "no, you're not getting what you want from me" and that is a case in point. 👍

    Yep, she was good on that. But it's safe ground, isn't it? Happily.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 274
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    That is precisely my question.

    The US is mostly protected from this.
    My electricity bill hasn’t really changed at all since I arrived, and it’s incredibly low.
    Petrol is obviously a lot cheaper.

    You’ve just said that London is booming, which is reassuring, but how does this square with the stark economic realities?
    It's a proper conundrum. My head tells me some terrible stuff is coming down the line. It must be. For all Europe and beyond

    My eyes tell me, WTF London looks fine. But I guess Paris looked fine in the summer of 1939?

    It causes cognitive dissonance
    Part of the story is that a lot of the people you see out and about in the chichi bits of London that you frequent are either tourists or rich enough that they can afford to pay an extra £3k a year in utility bills without cutting back on their other spending. There are millions of people in London who will be absolutely crushed by this but they are not drinking four pound lattes in Primrose Hill.
    Yes, but I don't restrict myself to Primrose Hill

    Camden Town is a huge mix of races, ages, genders. It is as busy as ever, if not busier. Lots of local young people spending. No sense of alarm, yet

    Repeat across London
    I think also that London is full of the sorts of professional people (like me) who saved money during lockdown and are still out spending it, and although maybe concerned about impending gas/electricity price hikes have the resources to withstand it. When the winter comes, I suspect we will also not be out as much.

    People with less resources are perhaps cutting back slightly, and will have a massive crunch when the bills come - but in London this is more than compensated for by people like me.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,256
    Speaking of Corbyn,

    "John Spellar, MP for Warley in the West Midlands, said Mr Corbyn’s attitude was “worse than naive - it’s irresponsible”.

    Not all Labour MPs were fooled.
  • CD13 said:

    Mr JohnL,

    "It wasn't the barmy old git taking millions from Putin's henchmen, or putting them in the House of Lords."

    Indeed not. But how many did those people poison. or declare war on?

    Dunno. Why don't you write to Mr Putin, c/o the Kremlin, and ask him if Brexit was worth five minutes' worth of oil revenue? And increased strains between constituent parts of the United Kingdom?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853

    If gas prices are so terrible what is the possibility for using alternative energy sources? The oil price has started coming down again. Now $86 for WTI crude.

    We blew up all our oil fired power stations.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Aside of the CoL news, everything for me seems fine. I note the stories yesterday (?) of US travellers being wary of the state of the nation and I suspect there is a lot of bullshit being pumped out in the states about the UK.
    I don’t read US media, though.
    I still read UK stuff - Guardian, Beeb, FT, PB, and Twitter people both left and right.

    It’s profoundly depressing.

    The US is of course totally fucked - politically at least - but quality of life for the “middle classes” is actually pretty good, and things work or don’t work as they seemingly always have.

    The UK appears to be in terminal velocity.
    Perhaps British commentators are naturally pessimistic.
    I'd perhaps check your curation of data. The Guardian and the BBC are relentlessly negative, and the FT, naturally is going to be down on things as the CoL crisis is THE story.

    Day to day life, however, is pretty good. Look at the football - happy crowds, no masks, people enjoying themselves. People are having holidays as normal again.

    There is perhaps a sense that this is the calm before the storm, and party now because winter will be grim. Maybe, but the idea that the nation is somehow falling apart is no more true now that at any other time in the last 100 years. There are multiple problems, and many not easy to solve. But we will try.

    The media and particular social media, do not do good news. Twitter etc is so polarised. There is no nuance, or depth. I responded to a twitter post blaming the current drought on climate change. I pointed out that although temps have risen, we have had droughts before (1976 as a good example) as droughts are driven by weather patterns. Boy did that get both sides raging. No attempt to debate, to consider that my view is reasonable, just full on accusation of denier status and stupidity. Thats twitter.
    Perhaps your followers resent being spoken to like four year olds. Droughts are caused by weather patterns, no shit! Could we research this further and pin them on an absence of one particular weather feature, do you think? And we had one in 1976, who knew?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    We're already seeing shops and food outlets reducing their opening hours. Faced with making a loss every minute they are trading and trying to concentrate their business into less hours, they have no choice.

    Yes, the consumer bills disaster will rightly get the headlines. But the colour commentary will add that so many businesses are on short hours or shuttered or bust. In addition to the usual inability to have working schools, medical appointments, trains, DVLA and the Passport office etc etc.

    Country is already falling apart. And we're about to get Mistress Truss doing nothing whilst insisting that a borrowed money tax cut for the well off is the only action needed.
    Is it the end for the almost always open One Stop :( ?
    One Stop, like Tesco Express, Sainsbury's Local and Co-op is (almost entirely) company owned. So this is a great opportunity for Tesco (in the case of One Stop) to invest heavily in LED lighting and closed fridges.

    For the independent operators - which is practically everyone else - the ability to invest is probably less. Credit remains hard to get hold of on sensible terms for a lot of businesses.
  • CD13 said:

    An interesting programme on TV last night. Putin bears grudges against traitors. We had noticed, and when he's not menacing random Ukrainians, especially those competing against Soviet stooges, he send groups of spies out to poison any ex-soviets he dislikes.

    Another great piece of judgement by the barmy old git, and ex-leader of the Labour Party. We dodged a bullet there. Anyone who supported him should hang their head in shame.

    It wasn't the barmy old git taking millions from Putin's henchmen, or putting them in the House of Lords.
    You're right the barmy old git was worse, he was doing Putin's bidding because he was a true believer, while the Tories were allegedly taking millions away from Russia (supposedly) while doing everything to oppose Putin.
    Opposing Putin by letting his henchmen run newspapers, have an inside track to lobby the government and see government papers in the House of Lords? Even our response to Salisbury was less than Europe and America, and less than asked for by, erm, Jeremy Corbyn.
    Oh you do talk some rubbish.

    The UK led the world in getting countries to respond to Salisbury while Corbyn wanted to get Putin to tell us who was at fault, the European Convention of Human Rights responded to Putin's threats to cut off funding by re-admitting it as a fully compliant member, the Germans proceeded with NordStream, the US President wanted to be Putin's mate and tried to blackmail the Ukrainians into providing dirt into his political opponent and the British funded and trained the Ukrainian military.

    The UK doesn't always get everything right, but in standing up to Putin we have a far superior track record than the alternatives we could look at.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,368

    Angel tube is closed 1 day in 5 because of Covid-related illness, reports the BBC.

    Am I getting a highly partial view due to my media bubble, or is the UK totally coming apart at the seams? It’s incredibly depressing, I don’t want the place to implode.

    Aside of the CoL news, everything for me seems fine. I note the stories yesterday (?) of US travellers being wary of the state of the nation and I suspect there is a lot of bullshit being pumped out in the states about the UK.
    I don’t read US media, though.
    I still read UK stuff - Guardian, Beeb, FT, PB, and Twitter people both left and right.

    It’s profoundly depressing.

    The US is of course totally fucked - politically at least - but quality of life for the “middle classes” is actually pretty good, and things work or don’t work as they seemingly always have.

    The UK appears to be in terminal velocity.
    Perhaps British commentators are naturally pessimistic.
    If you read the Guardian, you would think that. I have the impression that most of its commentators are Americans, feminists, Indians, eccentrics, or a combination of all of these. Reading the Guardian is profoundly depressing. But the alternatives are just as bad, though in a different way.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Blair calling for masks again like a broken record.
    Cancerous little turd
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    As inflation hits double digits, the far right English identity politics and Brexit fanaticism being punted by the Truss and Sunak show visits Belfast.

    As I said to @BloombergRadio earlier, their mandate here is zero but they insist on doing damage to our society.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewOToole2/status/1559884209468104704/video/1
  • Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,435
    CD13 said:

    Speaking of Corbyn,

    "John Spellar, MP for Warley in the West Midlands, said Mr Corbyn’s attitude was “worse than naive - it’s irresponsible”.

    Not all Labour MPs were fooled.

    Also remember that a large number of Labour MPs rebelled against Corbyn and tried to remove him. It was the Cobynites and entryists that kept him in place.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    Sandpit said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    It’s worse than that. What’s actually more important is the public’s perception of this being an international crisis, or purely a British one. If the UK media doesn’t report on German power cuts and Dutch farmers rioting, did they even happen?
    Isn't that always true to an extent? Governments and PMs naturally seek to benefit from good things they had nothing to do with, and evade any blowback over bad things they may or may not have had anything to do with.

    Local councillors who lose their seats largely based on who has been in national office for some time can probably relate.

    That's the game.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    That is precisely my question.

    The US is mostly protected from this.
    My electricity bill hasn’t really changed at all since I arrived, and it’s incredibly low.
    Petrol is obviously a lot cheaper.

    You’ve just said that London is booming, which is reassuring, but how does this square with the stark economic realities?
    It's a proper conundrum. My head tells me some terrible stuff is coming down the line. It must be. For all Europe and beyond

    My eyes tell me, WTF London looks fine. But I guess Paris looked fine in the summer of 1939?

    It causes cognitive dissonance
    I think that your experience reflects a broader reality. What we are actually looking at is something like £58bn of our consumption being redirected from fripperies to fuel and heat over the next year. It is a significant financial blow but it will be offset to some extent by government responses. Indeed nearly half that figure has been offset already and there is more to come.

    So demand overall may fall a bit but not much. Wages are not keeping up with inflation which is actually a bigger problem in terms of overall demand, albeit they are linked. I expect us to have a moderately shallow recession, much more of a growth pause in fact. I think that the BoE figures will prove pessimistic in light of the government's responses.

    Unemployment will increase from its currently low base but not by much. The number of unfilled job vacancies will probably fall faster.

    This is not to say that some people who are particularly vlunerable, those on fixed incomes, benefits, pensioners who don't have top up pensions from employment etc won't find it hard. We need to focus on them. The idea that the government can magically wave this away for the bulk of us is idiotic and would be undesirable even if it were possible because it would stop us from adjusting to a new reality of more expensive fuel.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    #BREAKING: Cheney says she’s "thinking about" running for president https://trib.al/A75Vk8M https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1559866909939695618/photo/1
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Scott_xP said:

    #BREAKING: Cheney says she’s "thinking about" running for president https://trib.al/A75Vk8M https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1559866909939695618/photo/1

    LMAO, she really shouldn't waste her money
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    Scott_xP said:

    #BREAKING: Cheney says she’s "thinking about" running for president https://trib.al/A75Vk8M https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1559866909939695618/photo/1

    Don't do it Liz, it probably won't make a difference and it'll just be years of awfulness.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    We're already seeing shops and food outlets reducing their opening hours. Faced with making a loss every minute they are trading and trying to concentrate their business into less hours, they have no choice.

    Yes, the consumer bills disaster will rightly get the headlines. But the colour commentary will add that so many businesses are on short hours or shuttered or bust. In addition to the usual inability to have working schools, medical appointments, trains, DVLA and the Passport office etc etc.

    Country is already falling apart. And we're about to get Mistress Truss doing nothing whilst insisting that a borrowed money tax cut for the well off is the only action needed.
    The country is not "already falling apart"

    Ukraine is falling apart. Syria has fallen apart. Sri Lanka is a bit fucked

    Britain is a powerful and prosperous country. We will cope

    You aren't here long enough and using services enough to be as affected as many voters. Despite your denials, they know the country is falling apart because it is happening to them on a daily basis.

    The Winter of Discontent did it for Labour. Not because it did long term damage to the economy (which had already been done in the years leading up to that), but because it was obvious that the country stopped functioning properly.

    The coming Winter of Hell will do the same to the Tories.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,256
    edited August 2022
    Mr JohnL,

    Corbyn would never have believed anything bad about Putin. He condemned the UK government and all others who supported Ukraine with arms. Had he been in power, do you think he would have sent Ukraine a brass farthing?

    You're entitled to support his politics, but was he fit to be a PM?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    I don’t read the loony stuff in the Guardian.
    In fact I probably read as much Times stuff (via Twitter threads, because I don’t have a sub) as Guardian.

    I also read the LRB, although not to take the pulse of the nation. Relatedly, that has also seen a small but discernible fall in quality lately, presumably because it has relatively new editors.

    The recent Roe v Wade reactions piece was truly, truly dire.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,986

    Blair calling for masks again like a broken record.
    Cancerous little turd

    Does he own shares in mask manufactures or something? COVID is done.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strikes me Truss' fate may end up depressingly based on whether our amount of being fucked is noticably more or less than the rest of the West

    If your dire forebodings are right, we are heading into the worst winter since WW2, apart from the Covid winter of 2021. Great!

    I don't see how economies everywhere can avoid severe contraction. If energy prices go up 300% then businesses will simply shut down for the winter as that is probably cheaper and maybe the only way of surviving. Pubs, restaurants, libraries, museums, everything.

    Which implies a 5% fall in GDP? 10%?? Across the west?

    Jeez
    We're already seeing shops and food outlets reducing their opening hours. Faced with making a loss every minute they are trading and trying to concentrate their business into less hours, they have no choice.

    Yes, the consumer bills disaster will rightly get the headlines. But the colour commentary will add that so many businesses are on short hours or shuttered or bust. In addition to the usual inability to have working schools, medical appointments, trains, DVLA and the Passport office etc etc.

    Country is already falling apart. And we're about to get Mistress Truss doing nothing whilst insisting that a borrowed money tax cut for the well off is the only action needed.
    The country is not "already falling apart"

    Ukraine is falling apart. Syria has fallen apart. Sri Lanka is a bit fucked

    Britain is a powerful and prosperous country. We will cope

    People don't compare themselves to the worst of the worst. That's not even unreasonable, and given the promises that get made to them, they expect a lot more too.
  • Do the Tories have many members in Northern Ireland? I presume you can't simultaneously be a member of the Conservatives and the DUP? Will they address the issue that the majority of people in Northern Ireland accept the protocol?

    Belfast hustings. Liz Truss is on first, and is talking about the NI Protocol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBlh9oFelIk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9U2EBN41c
    Excellent answer from her. 👍

    Absolutely sorting out the Protocol is the right answer for NI, for restoring Power Sharing, and protecting the Good Friday Agreement.

    The majoritarian tosspots that wanted to weaponise the NI border and kill the Good Friday Agreement because they dislike Brexit will just need to lump it that they've lost.
    So the majority of the people of NornIron will have to "lump it" because "they've lost". I know you are an English nationalist, but demolishing the union is hardly taking back control for what was the UK.
    The union means adding NI, English, Scottish and Welsh voters together to get a single answer on union issues and Brexit was one of them.

    Scottish and NI "Remain" voters lost the referendum, they didn't win it.

    How does Truss's NI Protocol Bill "demolish the union"?
    So NI voted to remain. gets dragged out against its will.
    NI then gets expelled from the UK customs zone against its will.
    NI then looks at the pieces as they fall, sees opportunity in the half in both worlds settlement and backs it. Truss now dragging them away from that against their will.

    It feels inevitable there will be a border poll in NI and then in the Republic to create a new Ireland. Westminster can't say to NornIron voters that their vote doesn't matter.
    Good. If the people of NI vote to Leave then good riddance to them.

    But if they want to stick with us, they have to accept the decisions of the Westminster Parliament, whether that be Brexit or "legalised infanticide" or anything else Westminster democratically approves of that they dislike.
  • Pulpstar said:

    If gas prices are so terrible what is the possibility for using alternative energy sources? The oil price has started coming down again. Now $86 for WTI crude.

    We blew up all our oil fired power stations.
    Yes but London got a new art gallery, so there's that.
    https://www.tate.org.uk/visit/tate-modern
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491

    Scott_xP said:

    #BREAKING: Cheney says she’s "thinking about" running for president https://trib.al/A75Vk8M https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1559866909939695618/photo/1

    LMAO, she really shouldn't waste her money
    Wouldn't be her money she'd waste. Didn't Bloomberg and some other billionare spend something like 400 million on their own presidential campaigns last time?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,145
    Scott_xP said:

    #BREAKING: Cheney says she’s "thinking about" running for president https://trib.al/A75Vk8M https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1559866909939695618/photo/1

    Must have got my Presidential Sidekicks muddled up; I thought he had popped his clogs.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    #BREAKING: Cheney says she’s "thinking about" running for president https://trib.al/A75Vk8M https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1559866909939695618/photo/1

    Don't do it Liz, it probably won't make a difference and it'll just be years of awfulness.
    One to add to the list of "try to lay" on Betfair.
This discussion has been closed.