Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Liz takes a bit of a tumble in the betting – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeL said:

    PredictIt has No Change to Kansas abortion as marginal favourite - 54% chance of winning.

    https://www.predictit.org/markets/17/US-Elections

    Were that to be the case, it would be extraordinary, and would suggest that in vast swathes of America (basically everywhere except Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Utah), abortion is likely to remain legal if it gets to referendum / ballot proposition.
    How long do you think, before American conversation comes around to discussion of viability and sentience, as has been the case for several decades in the rest of the world?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267
    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone able to offer an opinion on what China's response to Pelosi arriving in Taiwan will be?

    Lots of shouting, a few military exercises, than back to the Covid lockdowns.
    Any chance of invasion of Taiwan?
    If I was Xi, boss of the CMC, I would wonder if the weapons that the PLA is armed with — many of which will be of similar quality to, or derived from Russian designs — are really adequate for a war with any country armed by or supported by the USA. And if Xi isn't thinking about that he is as big as berk as Putin, and that is very big on the berk scale.
    Invading Taiwan is also a much tougher ask than invading Ukraine due to the 100 miles of ocean between them.
    Taiwan also has a very modern, well equipped military armed with largely Western weaponary and they use Western military structures and practices (mostly)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone able to offer an opinion on what China's response to Pelosi arriving in Taiwan will be?

    Lots of shouting, a few military exercises, than back to the Covid lockdowns.
    Any chance of invasion of Taiwan?
    If I was Xi, boss of the CMC, I would wonder if the weapons that the PLA is armed with — many of which will be of similar quality to, or derived from Russian designs — are really adequate for a war with any country armed by or supported by the USA. And if Xi isn't thinking about that he is as big as berk as Putin, and that is very big on the berk scale.
    Invading Taiwan is also a much tougher ask than invading Ukraine due to the 100 miles of ocean between them.
    Taiwan also has a very modern, well equipped military armed with largely Western weaponary and they use Western military structures and practices (mostly)
    Taiwan have also been concerned about problems from China for sixty or seventy years.
  • If Starmer really now wants to be the anti-Corbyn then he needs to come out obviously hard against JC's Ukraine stance

    If he did that I could vote for him

    But could I believe "Honest" Keir?
  • If Starmer really now wants to be the anti-Corbyn then he needs to come out obviously hard against JC's Ukraine stance

    If he did that I could vote for him

    But could I believe "Honest" Keir?

    So that's a no then. In other news water is wet
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone able to offer an opinion on what China's response to Pelosi arriving in Taiwan will be?

    Lots of shouting, a few military exercises, than back to the Covid lockdowns.
    Any chance of invasion of Taiwan?
    If I was Xi, boss of the CMC, I would wonder if the weapons that the PLA is armed with — many of which will be of similar quality to, or derived from Russian designs — are really adequate for a war with any country armed by or supported by the USA. And if Xi isn't thinking about that he is as big as berk as Putin, and that is very big on the berk scale.
    Invading Taiwan is also a much tougher ask than invading Ukraine due to the 100 miles of ocean between them.
    Taiwan also has a very modern, well equipped military armed with largely Western weaponary and they use Western military structures and practices (mostly)
    My understanding was that the West has always avoided selling Taiwan the heavy weapons (can't remember what these are) it would need to repel a Chinese invasion, because part of the delicate balance of China not invading is the fact that it could invade if it wanted.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeL said:

    PredictIt has No Change to Kansas abortion as marginal favourite - 54% chance of winning.

    https://www.predictit.org/markets/17/US-Elections

    Were that to be the case, it would be extraordinary, and would suggest that in vast swathes of America (basically everywhere except Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Utah), abortion is likely to remain legal if it gets to referendum / ballot proposition.
    The only polling I can see has Yes ahead 47% to 43% but Kansas is not as hardline on abortion as the deep South no

    https://coefficient.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/KS-VTB-Amendment-7.18.pdf
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    Boris Johnson is the worst PM in British history. Congratulations on voting for that
    I've explained why I'm proud of that vote

    If you cared about Ukraine you would wish that you'd voted for him too
    Desperate.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The SNP may not like Truss' statement but could to see our potential future PM standing firm against Sturgeon, something most Unionists will welcome.

    He public sector comments may not have been well advised for the electorate as a whole, hence her row back but for party members concerned about public sector crowding out of the private sector in parts of the North it will not have gone down so badly

    Not just the SNP. Quite a few people of other parties, including the "Conservative" one, have taken it very badly.

    For instance:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20594201.former-tory-msp-says-liz-truss-lost-vote-inappropriate-nicola-sturgeon-dig/

    Ignoring a democratically elected First Minister is not a good practice to carry on from Mr Johnson.
    You manage to find 1 ex Tory MSP who has not been at Holyrood for 6 years.

    Ignoring Sturgeon's constant indyref2 shrieking is however an excellent move from a Tory PM, meanwhile actual Tory MSPs like Murdo Fraser are loving the new harder line from Truss
    Also: sexist, aren't you?

    Also: anti-constitutionalist, aren't you?
    No on neither count, it may have escaped your attention but Liz Truss is a woman.

    The UK constitution is also based on Crown in Parliament
    "Shrieking". Not to be used of a female politician these days.

    As for the UK Constitution, there is more than one Parliament. As you know very well, but desperately ignore.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited August 2022
    Not sure if reported but theres a BMG in the i paper, 26 to 28 July
    Starmer leads sunak by 6, truss by 5 and headline is Lab 41, Con 32
    Truss has a lead over Sunak amongst leavers and 2019 Con

    https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-polling-on-behalf-of-the-i-tory-leadership-and-climate-change/
  • Not sure if reported but theres a BMG in the i paper, 26 to 28 July
    Starmer leads sunak by 6, truss by 5 and geadlune is Lab 41, Con 32
    Truss has a lead over Sunak amongst leavers and 2019 Con

    How can it differ so much :/
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    rcs1000 said:

    The most consequential election today is almost certainly the Kansas abortion referendum.

    Kansas is - if the polls are to be believed - one of the most anti-abortion states in the US. It is also a Republican bastion, and it's holding a referendum on the same day as the Republican primaries.

    Outside money and volunteers have flooded the State ahead of the referendum, which - technically - is an amendment to the State constitution which would allow it to restrict abortions.

    This is a very interesting race, because it will show (broadly) how much of a motivator abortion is to voters.

    One would expect a comfortable majority for the measure, not least because it doesn't prohibit abortion, and merely gives the legislature the right to rule on it. And this is also a referendum on changing the status quo.

    But abortion access forces are fired up. All the evidence is that early voting has been running at 2-3x normal levels.

    My rough "rule of thumb" is that something around 60:40 in favor means that abortion is motivating each side equally. While less than 55% in favor suggests it favors the Dems.

    My understanding is that the Kansas constitution already allows the legislature to restrict abortions, no abortions after 22 weeks, mandatory counselling and 24 hour waiting period before the procedure. Passing the amendment would allow the legislature to pass any abortion law, including a complete ban. Most supporters of the amendment say that they won't ban abortion, but the measure if passed does allow them to do so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The SNP may not like Truss' statement but could to see our potential future PM standing firm against Sturgeon, something most Unionists will welcome.

    He public sector comments may not have been well advised for the electorate as a whole, hence her row back but for party members concerned about public sector crowding out of the private sector in parts of the North it will not have gone down so badly

    Not just the SNP. Quite a few people of other parties, including the "Conservative" one, have taken it very badly.

    For instance:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20594201.former-tory-msp-says-liz-truss-lost-vote-inappropriate-nicola-sturgeon-dig/

    Ignoring a democratically elected First Minister is not a good practice to carry on from Mr Johnson.
    You manage to find 1 ex Tory MSP who has not been at Holyrood for 6 years.

    Ignoring Sturgeon's constant indyref2 shrieking is however an excellent move from a Tory PM, meanwhile actual Tory MSPs like Murdo Fraser are loving the new harder line from Truss
    Also: sexist, aren't you?

    Also: anti-constitutionalist, aren't you?
    No on neither count, it may have escaped your attention but Liz Truss is a woman.

    The UK constitution is also based on Crown in Parliament
    "Shrieking". Not to be used of a female politician these days.

    As for the UK Constitution, there is more than one Parliament. As you know very well, but desperately ignore.
    There is only 1 sovereign Parliament in the UK, Holyrood is a mere creation of Westminster.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    JohnO said:

    Anyway, I wonder whether the Spendid Assembly of The PB Tory Selectorate has also received this email from CCHQ, which in part reads:

    Your ballot is now on the way - but it will arrive with you a little later than we originally said. Please do not worry.

    This is because we have taken some time to add some additional security to our ballot process which has delayed us slightly.

    Is the 'additional security' pre-filling in your choice? ;)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Not sure if reported but theres a BMG in the i paper, 26 to 28 July
    Starmer leads sunak by 6, truss by 5 and geadlune is Lab 41, Con 32
    Truss has a lead over Sunak amongst leavers and 2019 Con

    How can it differ so much :/
    Preferred PM is within MoE of others. VI...... well its a weird time. It will settle once we have a new PM
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone able to offer an opinion on what China's response to Pelosi arriving in Taiwan will be?

    Lots of shouting, a few military exercises, than back to the Covid lockdowns.
    Any chance of invasion of Taiwan?
    Personally I can’t see it.

    Taiwan has extensive air defences, any sizeable invasion would need to be from the sea, which gives everyone friendly enough notice to take them out. Japan, Philiippines, Korea and USA all have a lot of military assets in the area.

    It really would escalate quickly once it started, and China knows this. Unlike Putin, the CCP are not totally mad.
    I don't think China would be daft enough to attempt an invasion of Taiwan without first establishing air superiority, and using its extensive arsenal of missiles to clear the seas of enemy naval vessels. Whether they would be successful in achieving those objectives I do not know, but it also means that there would be an opportunity for de-escalation before any ground troops were involved.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,380

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    Boris Johnson is the worst PM in British history. Congratulations on voting for that
    I've explained why I'm proud of that vote

    If you cared about Ukraine you would wish that you'd voted for him too
    I could never vote for a party led by Boris Johnson. If you get a Stewart or a Cameron back I'll think about it. I have voted Tory in the past.
    Are you ashamed of voting for Corbyn and for Ukraine’s dissolution into Russia?

    If you are, I might be able to forgive your youthful (relatively), ignorant support for the “people’s champion”

    If not then accept your position as an enabler of Russia’s evil aggression
    Don't know about anybody else, but when I last voted in a GE, in 2019, I didn't pay any attention to the Ukraine foreign policy of the parties. Shame on me.
    I also neglected to take Covid into account. Double shame on me.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    JohnO said:

    Anyway, I wonder whether the Spendid Assembly of The PB Tory Selectorate has also received this email from CCHQ, which in part reads:

    Your ballot is now on the way - but it will arrive with you a little later than we originally said. Please do not worry.

    This is because we have taken some time to add some additional security to our ballot process which has delayed us slightly.

    Is the 'additional security' pre-filling in your choice? ;)
    They’re just making the instructions more clear…



    (That’s real, from Bristol City Council in 2016).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    Boris Johnson is the worst PM in British history. Congratulations on voting for that
    I've explained why I'm proud of that vote

    If you cared about Ukraine you would wish that you'd voted for him too
    I could never vote for a party led by Boris Johnson. If you get a Stewart or a Cameron back I'll think about it. I have voted Tory in the past.
    Are you ashamed of voting for Corbyn and for Ukraine’s dissolution into Russia?

    If you are, I might be able to forgive your youthful (relatively), ignorant support for the “people’s champion”

    If not then accept your position as an enabler of Russia’s evil aggression
    Don't know about anybody else, but when I last voted in a GE, in 2019, I didn't pay any attention to the Ukraine foreign policy of the parties. Shame on me.
    I also neglected to take Covid into account. Double shame on me.
    Typical uninformed voter... 😀
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Not sure if reported but theres a BMG in the i paper, 26 to 28 July
    Starmer leads sunak by 6, truss by 5 and headline is Lab 41, Con 32
    Truss has a lead over Sunak amongst leavers and 2019 Con

    https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-polling-on-behalf-of-the-i-tory-leadership-and-climate-change/

    More details 'But the BMG poll, taken mostly after the VAT pledge was announced, shows both candidates on 29 per cent among all voters on the question of who would make the better prime minister..Among Conservative voters – who include the Tory membership electing the next prime minister – Ms Truss is way ahead of Mr Sunak, with 43 per cent believing she would make the better PM, compared to 32 per cent for the ex-chancellor.

    Among Leave voters, the gap is even wider, with 45 per cent backing Ms Truss and just 26 per cent for Mr Sunak....However, both Tory rivals are behind the Labour leader who the wider electorate prefer as the next prime minister. Starmer beats Ms Truss by 37 per cent to 32 per cent, and Mr Sunak by 37 per cent to 31 per cent.'


    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-leadership-polls-liz-truss-favourite-prime-minister-polling-rish-sunak-tax-u-turn-1769790
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    JohnO said:

    Anyway, I wonder whether the Spendid Assembly of The PB Tory Selectorate has also received this email from CCHQ, which in part reads:

    Your ballot is now on the way - but it will arrive with you a little later than we originally said. Please do not worry.

    This is because we have taken some time to add some additional security to our ballot process which has delayed us slightly.

    Got it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone able to offer an opinion on what China's response to Pelosi arriving in Taiwan will be?

    Lots of shouting, a few military exercises, than back to the Covid lockdowns.
    Any chance of invasion of Taiwan?
    If I was Xi, boss of the CMC, I would wonder if the weapons that the PLA is armed with — many of which will be of similar quality to, or derived from Russian designs — are really adequate for a war with any country armed by or supported by the USA. And if Xi isn't thinking about that he is as big as berk as Putin, and that is very big on the berk scale.
    Invading Taiwan is also a much tougher ask than invading Ukraine due to the 100 miles of ocean between them.
    Taiwan also has a very modern, well equipped military armed with largely Western weaponary and they use Western military structures and practices (mostly)
    But it doesn't have a nuclear defence.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone able to offer an opinion on what China's response to Pelosi arriving in Taiwan will be?

    Lots of shouting, a few military exercises, than back to the Covid lockdowns.
    Any chance of invasion of Taiwan?
    If I was Xi, boss of the CMC, I would wonder if the weapons that the PLA is armed with — many of which will be of similar quality to, or derived from Russian designs — are really adequate for a war with any country armed by or supported by the USA. And if Xi isn't thinking about that he is as big as berk as Putin, and that is very big on the berk scale.
    Invading Taiwan is also a much tougher ask than invading Ukraine due to the 100 miles of ocean between them.
    Taiwan also has a very modern, well equipped military armed with largely Western weaponary and they use Western military structures and practices (mostly)
    Taiwan have also been concerned about problems from China for sixty or seventy years.
    As far as the CCP are concerned it's unfinished business from the civil war, and a constant insult to them as it shows a successful and freer alternative model.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The SNP may not like Truss' statement but could to see our potential future PM standing firm against Sturgeon, something most Unionists will welcome.

    He public sector comments may not have been well advised for the electorate as a whole, hence her row back but for party members concerned about public sector crowding out of the private sector in parts of the North it will not have gone down so badly

    Not just the SNP. Quite a few people of other parties, including the "Conservative" one, have taken it very badly.

    For instance:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20594201.former-tory-msp-says-liz-truss-lost-vote-inappropriate-nicola-sturgeon-dig/

    Ignoring a democratically elected First Minister is not a good practice to carry on from Mr Johnson.
    You manage to find 1 ex Tory MSP who has not been at Holyrood for 6 years.

    Ignoring Sturgeon's constant indyref2 shrieking is however an excellent move from a Tory PM, meanwhile actual Tory MSPs like Murdo Fraser are loving the new harder line from Truss
    Murdo Fraser? He's as bad as Ms Truss for changing his mind. He wanted independence for the Scottish Tories. Now he's all in favour of unity.

    Just bear in mind: he's a list MSP, not a constituency one. He will almost always get elected whatever happens under FPTP.
    Look on the bright side, much of Murdo’s and his wee pals’ output is whining about Sturgeon, presumably after the Truss edict this will now cease.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MikeL said:

    PredictIt has No Change to Kansas abortion as marginal favourite - 54% chance of winning.

    https://www.predictit.org/markets/17/US-Elections

    Were that to be the case, it would be extraordinary, and would suggest that in vast swathes of America (basically everywhere except Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Utah), abortion is likely to remain legal if it gets to referendum / ballot proposition.
    The only polling I can see has Yes ahead 47% to 43% but Kansas is not as hardline on abortion as the deep South no

    https://coefficient.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/KS-VTB-Amendment-7.18.pdf
    Abortion views by State: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/

    There aren't many states which are less pro abortion than Arkansas.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited August 2022

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    The problem with this revisionism is that Starmer in his statements has always been firm in his support for Ukraine AFAIK, while Johnson had a reputation for being very pro-Russia while Foreign Secretary, even after the Salisbury poisonings.

    This statement from Johnson in 2018 is not exactly firm against Russia:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-boris-johnson-press-statement-in-moscow

    He changed his mind about Russia. Kudos. But if you are going back in time you need to do so in a consistent way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    HYUFD said:

    Not sure if reported but theres a BMG in the i paper, 26 to 28 July
    Starmer leads sunak by 6, truss by 5 and headline is Lab 41, Con 32
    Truss has a lead over Sunak amongst leavers and 2019 Con

    https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-polling-on-behalf-of-the-i-tory-leadership-and-climate-change/

    More details 'But the BMG poll, taken mostly after the VAT pledge was announced, shows both candidates on 29 per cent among all voters on the question of who would make the better prime minister..Among Conservative voters – who include the Tory membership electing the next prime minister – Ms Truss is way ahead of Mr Sunak, with 43 per cent believing she would make the better PM, compared to 32 per cent for the ex-chancellor.

    Among Leave voters, the gap is even wider, with 45 per cent backing Ms Truss and just 26 per cent for Mr Sunak....However, both Tory rivals are behind the Labour leader who the wider electorate prefer as the next prime minister. Starmer beats Ms Truss by 37 per cent to 32 per cent, and Mr Sunak by 37 per cent to 31 per cent.'


    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-leadership-polls-liz-truss-favourite-prime-minister-polling-rish-sunak-tax-u-turn-1769790
    Sunak also leads Truss 33% to 31% with middle class ABC1s but Truss leads Sunak 29% to 25% with working class C2DEs. Sunak leads Truss in the North East, North West, South East and Scotland but Truss leads Sunak in Wales, Yorkshire, the East, West Midlands and South West. They are tied in the East Midlands and London
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-leadership-polls-liz-truss-favourite-prime-minister-polling-rish-sunak-tax-u-turn-1769790
    https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-polling-on-behalf-of-the-i-tory-leadership-and-climate-change/
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    Boris Johnson is the worst PM in British history. Congratulations on voting for that
    I've explained why I'm proud of that vote

    If you cared about Ukraine you would wish that you'd voted for him too
    I could never vote for a party led by Boris Johnson. If you get a Stewart or a Cameron back I'll think about it. I have voted Tory in the past.
    Are you ashamed of voting for Corbyn and for Ukraine’s dissolution into Russia?

    If you are, I might be able to forgive your youthful (relatively), ignorant support for the “people’s champion”

    If not then accept your position as an enabler of Russia’s evil aggression
    I voted for Starmer full well knowing he would get rid of all of his policies, ideas and people.

    IE You voted for a liar with no charisma no values and no policies that is taking LAB to a defeat worse than 2017

    Well done you
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    29m
    Hello? Is anyone out there? (Is this thing even on?)

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1554520850413535233
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962

    Driver said:



    If Sir Keir wants to lie about Tory proposed policies, I'm sure they'll be happy to return the favour if he ever comes up with any.

    Whereas otherwise the Tories will be sticklers for accuracy and fairness?
    Who could forget the marvellous factcheckUK@CCHQPress?
  • FF43 said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    The problem with this revisionism is that Starmer in his statements has always been firm in his support for Ukraine AFAIK, while Johnson had a reputation for being very pro-Russia while Foreign Secretary, even after the Salisbury poisonings.

    This statement from Johnson in 2018 is not exactly firm against Russia:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-boris-johnson-press-statement-in-moscow

    He changed his mind about. Kudos. But if you are going back in time you need to do so in a consistent way.
    Shocking that one of our most Toriest of Tories would make it up
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    If Starmer really now wants to be the anti-Corbyn then he needs to come out obviously hard against JC's Ukraine stance

    If he did that I could vote for him

    But could I believe "Honest" Keir?

    Starmer did, more than 3 months ago.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited August 2022

    FF43 said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    The problem with this revisionism is that Starmer in his statements has always been firm in his support for Ukraine AFAIK, while Johnson had a reputation for being very pro-Russia while Foreign Secretary, even after the Salisbury poisonings.

    This statement from Johnson in 2018 is not exactly firm against Russia:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-boris-johnson-press-statement-in-moscow

    He changed his mind about. Kudos. But if you are going back in time you need to do so in a consistent way.
    Shocking that one of our most Toriest of Tories would make it up

    If Starmer really now wants to be the anti-Corbyn then he needs to come out obviously hard against JC's Ukraine stance

    If he did that I could vote for him

    But could I believe "Honest" Keir?

    Starmer did, more than 3 months ago.
    PB Tories gonna PB Tory.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    11th July 2022 was peak SKS its all downhill from that Poll that gave LAB a 15% lead

    LAB: 43% (+2)
    CON: 28% (-4)
    LDEM: 12% (+1)
    GRN: 4% (+1)

    Today we have a YG

    LAB 35
    CON 34
    LD 13
    GRN 7

    Well done on picketgate SKS
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    edited August 2022
    MORE IMPORTANTLY

    My diet yields results. 7 pounds down

    I spend my days reading restaurant reviews and fish recipes, and drooling from hunger, but it works
  • 11th July 2022 was peak SKS its all downhill from that Poll that gave LAB a 15% lead

    LAB: 43% (+2)
    CON: 28% (-4)
    LDEM: 12% (+1)
    GRN: 4% (+1)

    Today we have a YG

    LAB 35
    CON 34
    LD 13
    GRN 7

    Well done on picketgate SKS

    I am very happy to discuss how terrible KS is but can we do it without cherry-picking polls?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    Boris Johnson is the worst PM in British history. Congratulations on voting for that
    I've explained why I'm proud of that vote

    If you cared about Ukraine you would wish that you'd voted for him too
    I could never vote for a party led by Boris Johnson. If you get a Stewart or a Cameron back I'll think about it. I have voted Tory in the past.
    Are you ashamed of voting for Corbyn and for Ukraine’s dissolution into Russia?

    If you are, I might be able to forgive your youthful (relatively), ignorant support for the “people’s champion”

    If not then accept your position as an enabler of Russia’s evil aggression
    Don't know about anybody else, but when I last voted in a GE, in 2019, I didn't pay any attention to the Ukraine foreign policy of the parties. Shame on me.
    I also neglected to take Covid into account. Double shame on me.
    Speak for yourself. Many millions voted in 2019 motivated by Corbyn’s aversion to Nato and instinctive pro-Putinism even after he used chemical weapons on British soil.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,635
    FF43 said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    The problem with this revisionism is that Starmer in his statements has always been firm in his support for Ukraine AFAIK, while Johnson had a reputation for being very pro-Russia while Foreign Secretary, even after the Salisbury poisonings.

    This statement from Johnson in 2018 is not exactly firm against Russia:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-boris-johnson-press-statement-in-moscow

    He changed his mind about Russia. Kudos. But if you are going back in time you need to do so in a consistent way.
    This was him a few months later. You are falling for the usual anti-Johnson propaganda.

    Boris Johnson compares Russian World Cup to Hitler's 1936 Olympics

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/mar/21/boris-johnson-compares-russian-world-cup-to-hitlers-1936-olympics
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MikeL said:

    PredictIt has No Change to Kansas abortion as marginal favourite - 54% chance of winning.

    https://www.predictit.org/markets/17/US-Elections

    Were that to be the case, it would be extraordinary, and would suggest that in vast swathes of America (basically everywhere except Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Utah), abortion is likely to remain legal if it gets to referendum / ballot proposition.
    How long do you think, before American conversation comes around to discussion of viability and sentience, as has been the case for several decades in the rest of the world?
    Who knows? But if Arkansas reaffirms the State constitutional right to abortion, it really should cause some concern in Republican circles.

    Take Nevada: this should be a slam dunk pick-up for the Republicans. But Laxalit is insisting on making anti abortion a cornerstone of his campaign, despite the fact that Nevada is one of the most pro Choice states in the country.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
    I suspect you are wrong about that. To be seen to be failing to back workers, fairly or otherwise, would likely impact labour certainty to vote in the short term, which the last couple of polls hint at.
    Labours divisions are just not as public as the tories at the moment but they are most certainly there
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone able to offer an opinion on what China's response to Pelosi arriving in Taiwan will be?

    Lots of shouting, a few military exercises, than back to the Covid lockdowns.
    Any chance of invasion of Taiwan?
    If I was Xi, boss of the CMC, I would wonder if the weapons that the PLA is armed with — many of which will be of similar quality to, or derived from Russian designs — are really adequate for a war with any country armed by or supported by the USA. And if Xi isn't thinking about that he is as big as berk as Putin, and that is very big on the berk scale.
    Invading Taiwan is also a much tougher ask than invading Ukraine due to the 100 miles of ocean between them.
    Taiwan also has a very modern, well equipped military armed with largely Western weaponary and they use Western military structures and practices (mostly)
    And their non Western weaponary is usually derived from Western designs.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Lol - from Oscar Piastri

    I understand that, without my agreement, Alpine F1 have put out a press release late this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is wrong and I have not signed a contract with Alpine for 2023. I will not be driving for Alpine next year.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited August 2022

    Lol - from Oscar Piastri

    I understand that, without my agreement, Alpine F1 have put out a press release late this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is wrong and I have not signed a contract with Alpine for 2023. I will not be driving for Alpine next year.

    Veteran F1 hack “Uncle” Joe Saward, with a long piece on the 2023 calendar and driver market.

    https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/08/02/green-notebook-from-mosonmagyarovar/

    It seems that Alpine had all but agreed Piastri to go to McLaren, until Alonso totally blind-sided them yesterday with his move to AM.

    It’s very silly season.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone able to offer an opinion on what China's response to Pelosi arriving in Taiwan will be?

    Lots of shouting, a few military exercises, than back to the Covid lockdowns.
    Any chance of invasion of Taiwan?
    If I was Xi, boss of the CMC, I would wonder if the weapons that the PLA is armed with — many of which will be of similar quality to, or derived from Russian designs — are really adequate for a war with any country armed by or supported by the USA. And if Xi isn't thinking about that he is as big as berk as Putin, and that is very big on the berk scale.
    Invading Taiwan is also a much tougher ask than invading Ukraine due to the 100 miles of ocean between them.
    Taiwan also has a very modern, well equipped military armed with largely Western weaponary and they use Western military structures and practices (mostly)
    My understanding was that the West has always avoided selling Taiwan the heavy weapons (can't remember what these are) it would need to repel a Chinese invasion, because part of the delicate balance of China not invading is the fact that it could invade if it wanted.
    Well, the Taiwanese have plenty of F16s which would be pretty efficient at preventing an invasion.

    By and large, though, for the heavier stuff (like submarines), the Taiwanese have licensed Western designs and built then themselves.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Sandpit said:

    Lol - from Oscar Piastri

    I understand that, without my agreement, Alpine F1 have put out a press release late this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is wrong and I have not signed a contract with Alpine for 2023. I will not be driving for Alpine next year.

    Veteran F1 hack “Uncle” Joe Saward, with a long piece on the 2023 calendar and driver market.

    https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/08/02/green-notebook-from-mosonmagyarovar/

    It seems that Alpine had all but agreed Piastri to go to McLaren, until Alonso totally blind-sided them yesterday with his move to AM.

    It’s very silly season.
    I had thought we’d have a quiet summer break. Alas

  • Leon said:

    MORE IMPORTANTLY

    My diet yields results. 7 pounds down

    I spend my days reading restaurant reviews and fish recipes, and drooling from hunger, but it works

    What is this miracle diet and why can you not eat fish?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited August 2022

    FF43 said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    The problem with this revisionism is that Starmer in his statements has always been firm in his support for Ukraine AFAIK, while Johnson had a reputation for being very pro-Russia while Foreign Secretary, even after the Salisbury poisonings.

    This statement from Johnson in 2018 is not exactly firm against Russia:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-boris-johnson-press-statement-in-moscow

    He changed his mind about Russia. Kudos. But if you are going back in time you need to do so in a consistent way.
    This was him a few months later. You are falling for the usual anti-Johnson propaganda.

    Boris Johnson compares Russian World Cup to Hitler's 1936 Olympics

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/mar/21/boris-johnson-compares-russian-world-cup-to-hitlers-1936-olympics
    Does linking to Johnson's speech on the government's website counts as "falling for the usual anti-Johnson propaganda" ?

    I sort of thought that I was not falling for the usual pro-Johnson propaganda.

    Should add that Johnson as FM apparently had the reputation of watering down any anti-Russian measure that came before cabinet.

    He changed his mind later onw. Good. It aligned him with people like Starmer.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited August 2022

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
    I suspect you are wrong about that. To be seen to be failing to back workers, fairly or otherwise, would likely impact labour certainty to vote in the short term, which the last couple of polls hint at.
    Labours divisions are just not as public as the tories at the moment but they are most certainly there
    I am not doubting the divisions.

    I am doubting that anyone beyond Owen Jones, Big John Owls and a couple of ageing trots in Finsbury Park has noticed.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
    1 The fieldwork was 27th and 28th the RMT strike was 27th so you are wrong bang in the middle of PicketGate

    2 The Tories have barely bounced up 2|% in latest TG it is LAB that have plummeted by 8 to 9% pre PicketGate

    3.You said that last night you are wrong LAB not being able to support working peoples pay claims in the middle of a COTL Crisis is a huge deal

    Time to come up with an alternative reason for a 9pt drop or admit you may ne the one who doesnt have a clue what people give a fuck about
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Leon said:

    MORE IMPORTANTLY

    My diet yields results. 7 pounds down

    I spend my days reading restaurant reviews and fish recipes, and drooling from hunger, but it works

    I'm carrying more timber than the Forest of Dean.

    What's the strat?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Anyone able to offer an opinion on what China's response to Pelosi arriving in Taiwan will be?

    Something between a strop and a sulk.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MikeL said:

    PredictIt has No Change to Kansas abortion as marginal favourite - 54% chance of winning.

    https://www.predictit.org/markets/17/US-Elections

    Were that to be the case, it would be extraordinary, and would suggest that in vast swathes of America (basically everywhere except Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Utah), abortion is likely to remain legal if it gets to referendum / ballot proposition.
    How long do you think, before American conversation comes around to discussion of viability and sentience, as has been the case for several decades in the rest of the world?
    Who knows? But if Arkansas reaffirms the State constitutional right to abortion, it really should cause some concern in Republican circles.

    Take Nevada: this should be a slam dunk pick-up for the Republicans. But Laxalit is insisting on making anti abortion a cornerstone of his campaign, despite the fact that Nevada is one of the most pro Choice states in the country.
    Should it? Nevada voted for Biden, Clinton and Obama, it hasn't voted GOP at presidential level since it voted for Bush in 2004
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
    I suspect you are wrong about that. To be seen to be failing to back workers, fairly or otherwise, would likely impact labour certainty to vote in the short term, which the last couple of polls hint at.
    Labours divisions are just not as public as the tories at the moment but they are most certainly there
    I am not doubting the divisions.

    I am doubting that anyone beyond Owen Jones, Big John Owls and a couple of ageing trots in Finsbury Park has noticed.
    Well i disagree, i think its been noticed but theres no way to prove that i guess unless the subject is polled
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited August 2022

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    That’s not a pre-req.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,635
    edited August 2022
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Okay...?
    He tried to make Corbyn Prime Minister

    Twice

    Corbyn wants, and wanted, Ukraine to accede to Russian territorial demands

    Russia wants all of Ukraine

    People that support or supported Corbyn should be deeply ashamed of themselves
    You voted for Boris Johnson.

    He meets illegally with Russian spies.

    You voted for Priti Patel.

    She meets illegally with Iranian spies.
    What are the pro Russian/Iranian policies that either have implemented, or even tried to, during their times in office?

    Jeremy Corbyn wanted to share detailed forensic murder info with the murderer

    Boris beat him. Thank fuck
    The problem with this revisionism is that Starmer in his statements has always been firm in his support for Ukraine AFAIK, while Johnson had a reputation for being very pro-Russia while Foreign Secretary, even after the Salisbury poisonings.

    This statement from Johnson in 2018 is not exactly firm against Russia:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-boris-johnson-press-statement-in-moscow

    He changed his mind about Russia. Kudos. But if you are going back in time you need to do so in a consistent way.
    This was him a few months later. You are falling for the usual anti-Johnson propaganda.

    Boris Johnson compares Russian World Cup to Hitler's 1936 Olympics

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/mar/21/boris-johnson-compares-russian-world-cup-to-hitlers-1936-olympics
    Does linking to Johnson's speech on the government's website counts as "falling for the usual anti-Johnson propaganda" ?

    I sort of thought that I was not falling for the usual pro-Johnson propaganda
    He attempted a 'reset' and quickly found out that it was futile and changed his position. Hillary Clinton famously did the same. Was she pro-Russian?

    To disregard Johnson's subsequent views and claim he "had reputation for being very pro-Russia" is either to fall for propaganda or to peddle it.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,380
    edited August 2022

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
    I suspect you are wrong about that. To be seen to be failing to back workers, fairly or otherwise, would likely impact labour certainty to vote in the short term, which the last couple of polls hint at.
    Labours divisions are just not as public as the tories at the moment but they are most certainly there
    I suspect you're right up to a point. But I think it's not just the lack of support for workers, it's also the lack of clarity that is turning off (potential) Labour voters. Does Starmer think that workers are justified in agitating and/or striking for higher wages, or doesn't he? He should, I think, be saying something like:

    Labour thinks that workers, both public and private sector, deserve significant pay rises to help them deal with the cost of living crisis brought about by this government's ineptitude. While we support workers in their fight, Labour also recognises that in some sectors a pay rise in line with, or above, current inflation levels is not economically realistic. But to those employers offering 3% or 4% or less, our message is clear: that's not enough.

    Starmer needs to be bolder.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
    1 The fieldwork was 27th and 28th the RMT strike was 27th so you are wrong bang in the middle of PicketGate

    2 The Tories have barely bounced up 2|% in latest TG it is LAB that have plummeted by 8 to 9% pre PicketGate

    3.You said that last night you are wrong LAB not being able to support working peoples pay claims in the middle of a COTL Crisis is a huge deal

    Time to come up with an alternative reason for a 9pt drop or admit you may ne the one who doesnt have a clue what people give a fuck about
    I'm a Tory and hold no love for SKS but no-one gives a shit about "PicketGate" mate.
  • geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    Sevastopol was occupied by the Brits in 1855.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    HYUFD said:

    The SNP may not like Truss' statement but could to see our potential future PM standing firm against Sturgeon, something most Unionists will welcome.

    He public sector comments may not have been well advised for the electorate as a whole, hence her row back but for party members concerned about public sector crowding out of the private sector in parts of the North it will not have gone down so badly

    LOL. Party members are not concerned about the public sector crowding out the private sector in the North. They’re tempted by big juicy tax cuts and never saw a public sector spending cut they didn’t like.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    Sevastopol was occupied by the Brits in 1855.
    That’s good enough!
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    @rcs1000

    Robert: I too have been told to watch the next 2-3 months very carefully in China and not to rule out a black swan. Xi is so wedded to zero covid he can’t undo it without massive loss of face and as you say, the policy is now there as long as Xi is.

    He’s made provincial and municipal governors perform “local” lockdowns because he didn’t have the strength to issue a national lockdown edict but has simultaneously banned them from using “dangerous” “unproven” western vaccines. And as a result he’s making Chinese poorer.

    In short he’s twisted too many people’s tits to be assured of smooth passage to a third term, which is widely seen as presaging a form of life emperorship for him. So as a result a fierce power struggle is already underway. Usual style of mysterious deaths of opponents.

    The military sabre rattling with Taiwan has been predictable to me for many years. At some point the Ponzi scheme of the Chinese economy led this way. What’s surprises me is the current leadership’s willingness to commit such an act of self harm and accelerate that economic reckoning.

    Militarily the whole thing is a joke. They can no more take Taiwan as Putin can Kiev. Doesn’t stop this being a dangerous moment. Because whereas Kiev is an indirect NATO - Russia conflict, the U.S. would if necessary directly
    involve itself in the protection of Taiwan.

    So place your bets. Who leaves office (and possibly planet earth) first? Putin or Xi? Three months ago the answer seemed obviously to be Putin. Now I’m not so sure.

    Also, China's nuclear weapons probably work.
    It might depend how on

    a) How much Chinesium is in the build, and

    b) Was Wish.com involved?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,652

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
    I suspect you are wrong about that. To be seen to be failing to back workers, fairly or otherwise, would likely impact labour certainty to vote in the short term, which the last couple of polls hint at.
    Labours divisions are just not as public as the tories at the moment but they are most certainly there
    I suspect you're right up to a point. But I think it's not just the lack of support for workers, it's also the lack of clarity that is turning off (potential) Labour voters. Does Starmer think that workers are justified in agitating and/or striking for higher wages, or doesn't he? He should, I think, be saying something like:

    Labour thinks that workers, both public and private sector, deserve significant pay rises to help them deal with the cost of living crisis brought about by this government's ineptitude. While we support workers in their fight, Labour also recognises that in some sectors a pay rise in line with, or above, current inflation levels is not economically realistic. But to those employers offering 3% or 4% or less, our message is clear: that's not enough.

    Starmer needs to be bolder.
    I agree. It isn't workers wages that have driven up inflation, because most of us haven't had a payrise in years.

    Indeed Medical pay has gone down 24-30% depending on grade since the GFC.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
    1 The fieldwork was 27th and 28th the RMT strike was 27th so you are wrong bang in the middle of PicketGate

    2 The Tories have barely bounced up 2|% in latest TG it is LAB that have plummeted by 8 to 9% pre PicketGate

    3.You said that last night you are wrong LAB not being able to support working peoples pay claims in the middle of a COTL Crisis is a huge deal

    Time to come up with an alternative reason for a 9pt drop or admit you may ne the one who doesnt have a clue what people give a fuck about
    I'm a Tory and hold no love for SKS but no-one gives a shit about "PicketGate" mate.
    Afraid potential LAB voters do.

    They expect LAB to be on the side of struggling workers.

    Under SKS and RR it isnt

    Huge deal otherwise you have to explain why they are on 35 bang in the middle of a COL crisis
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2022

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    That’s not a pre-req.
    Indeed, the Republic of Ireland isn't in the Commonwealth but Rwanda and Mozambique and Gabon and Togo are. Ireland was part of the British Empire, the latter 4 weren't
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    I wonder how many are retire and return ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064

    kle4 said:

    Driver said:

    What this shows us that the old Liz Truss is still very much there.

    She has a habit of talking about things she doesn't understand, having to walk back what she has said. It does not inspire confidence that is competent or that she is a change from BoJo.

    That announcement to cut pay in the Red Wall will have gone down there very badly.

    The policy has been ditched, can everyone please stop lying about it now?
    Was it ditched, or was it misrepresented? I'm confused, as if it was the latter then there would obviously be no reason to ditch it.
    It was misrepresented and it was ditched. Misrepresented because people implied she wanted to cut nurses' pay, and ditched because she didn't want it to turn into a dementia tax moment.
    She did want to cut nurses’ pay. She wanted new nurses in some regions to be paid less than they currently are.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,652

    Apparently nobody in the real world gives a fuck about Labours stance on not being on workers sides (PICKET GATE)

    Or SKS Fans please explain LOL

    The polling was done before “Tarrygate”.

    The Tories are having a bounce because Boris is gone and the leadership race is dominating and he media.

    SKS might be crap, but I doubt 1 in a 1000 voters give a single fuck for “Picket gate”.
    1 The fieldwork was 27th and 28th the RMT strike was 27th so you are wrong bang in the middle of PicketGate

    2 The Tories have barely bounced up 2|% in latest TG it is LAB that have plummeted by 8 to 9% pre PicketGate

    3.You said that last night you are wrong LAB not being able to support working peoples pay claims in the middle of a COTL Crisis is a huge deal

    Time to come up with an alternative reason for a 9pt drop or admit you may ne the one who doesnt have a clue what people give a fuck about
    I'm a Tory and hold no love for SKS but no-one gives a shit about "PicketGate" mate.
    Afraid potential LAB voters do.

    They expect LAB to be on the side of struggling workers.

    Under SKS and RR it isnt

    Huge deal otherwise you have to explain why they are on 35 bang in the middle of a COL crisis
    It depends on the poll but had one on 43% yesterday, which allowing for MOE indicates not much overall change.

    Picketgate puts me off for one. What is the point of Labour if its policy is just Tory policy with a pained expression?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    edited August 2022
    “Starmer’s allies say he will decide when he returns from his holiday on 15 August whether to take disciplinary action against Lisa Nandy” for standing on a picketline yesterday reports
    @GuardianHeather

    Fucking Numpty
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,652
    Taz said:

    I wonder how many are retire and return ?
    Quite a few return part time, but do have to cut their hours. The rules are that your pension and pay cannot exceed your previous pay, so typically 2 or 3 days per week for Retire and Returners. Same rules for Nurses and other staff too.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,380

    HYUFD said:

    The SNP may not like Truss' statement but could to see our potential future PM standing firm against Sturgeon, something most Unionists will welcome.

    He public sector comments may not have been well advised for the electorate as a whole, hence her row back but for party members concerned about public sector crowding out of the private sector in parts of the North it will not have gone down so badly

    LOL. Party members are not concerned about the public sector crowding out the private sector in the North. They’re tempted by big juicy tax cuts and never saw a public sector spending cut they didn’t like.
    Are you suggesting that the farmers and entrepreneurs frequenting the North Yorkshire Tory club don't sit around saying "Ee lad, I would invest more in my business, but there isn't enough money around because it's all being wasted on things like police officers, district nurses, midwives, and Farming Diversity Officers"?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

    I had no idea they were in the Commonwealth. Well in that case, start drafting the letter to Ukraine...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    “Starmer’s allies say he will decide when he returns from his holiday on 15 August whether to take disciplinary action against Lisa Nandy” for standing on a picketline yesterday reports
    @GuardianHeather

    Fucking Numpty

    There's a long interview with Nandy in this week's New Statesman.

    Interestingly, she takes two pops at Lammy.

    Does she think he will be facing her in a leadership election?

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

    I had no idea they were in the Commonwealth. Well in that case, start drafting the letter to Ukraine...
    It wouldn't surprise me if Boris has had that thought and even broached it with Volodomyr.

  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    “Starmer’s allies say he will decide when he returns from his holiday on 15 August whether to take disciplinary action against Lisa Nandy” for standing on a picketline yesterday reports
    @GuardianHeather

    Fucking Numpty

    Yes, it was a stupid thing for her to do.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,242

    kle4 said:

    Driver said:

    What this shows us that the old Liz Truss is still very much there.

    She has a habit of talking about things she doesn't understand, having to walk back what she has said. It does not inspire confidence that is competent or that she is a change from BoJo.

    That announcement to cut pay in the Red Wall will have gone down there very badly.

    The policy has been ditched, can everyone please stop lying about it now?
    Was it ditched, or was it misrepresented? I'm confused, as if it was the latter then there would obviously be no reason to ditch it.
    It was misrepresented and it was ditched. Misrepresented because people implied she wanted to cut nurses' pay, and ditched because she didn't want it to turn into a dementia tax moment.
    She did want to cut nurses’ pay. She wanted new nurses in some regions to be paid less than they currently are.
    That's not cutting anyone's pay though, is it. It's offering new entrants less.

    Although I think we would do better if we went back to the idea of employing people as, effectively, nursing assistants, while they did their training.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,242
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

    Part of Cameroon was.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

    Ukraine joining the Commonwealth would probably cause Putins head to explode…

    Also Macarons and VDLs…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    edited August 2022

    Leon said:

    MORE IMPORTANTLY

    My diet yields results. 7 pounds down

    I spend my days reading restaurant reviews and fish recipes, and drooling from hunger, but it works

    What is this miracle diet and why can you not eat fish?
    It's a very clever diet where you eat ABSOLUTELY FUCK ALL

    For about 3 days, then you eat normally for 1 day (don't binge), then another 3 days with NOTHING

    Brutal, but it works
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

    Part of Cameroon was.
    Oh, was it? Which part?

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,380

    “Starmer’s allies say he will decide when he returns from his holiday on 15 August whether to take disciplinary action against Lisa Nandy” for standing on a picketline yesterday reports
    @GuardianHeather

    Fucking Numpty

    There's a long interview with Nandy in this week's New Statesman.

    Interestingly, she takes two pops at Lammy.

    Does she think he will be facing her in a leadership election?

    Interesting. I don't have the NS - could you precis what she has a pop at Lammy about?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Taz said:

    I wonder how many are retire and return ?
    Biggest ever vacancy levels already in history of NHS now LT wants a pay cut

    I thought Tories understood supply and demand!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

    Ukraine joining the Commonwealth would probably cause Putins head to explode…

    Also Macarons and VDLs…
    Yup. Quite a few positives.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited August 2022
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

    Part of Cameroon was.
    Oh, was it? Which part?

    British Cameroons. Surprisingly enough.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Cameroon
  • geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

    FAKE NEWS

    The southwestern part of Cameroon was British, that's why there's currently a regional conflict there, over language.

    Also the Mozambique port of Chinde was leased to the Brits in the early 20th century.

    I'll grant you Rwanda, however.
  • geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    So what? Nor was Cameroon nor Mozambique nor Rwanda.

    Part of Cameroon was.
    Oh, was it? Which part?

    Southwestern part.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MORE IMPORTANTLY

    My diet yields results. 7 pounds down

    I spend my days reading restaurant reviews and fish recipes, and drooling from hunger, but it works

    What is this miracle diet and why can you not eat fish?
    It's a very clever diet where you eat ABSOLUTELY FUCK ALL

    For about 3 days, then you eat normally for 1 day (don't binge), then another 3 days with NOTHING

    Brutal, but it works
    Sounds very WOKE...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Taz said:

    I wonder how many are retire and return ?
    Biggest ever vacancy levels already in history of NHS now LT wants a pay cut

    I thought Tories understood supply and demand!
    You are fighting on too many fronts; you have just identified why sparkless middle management dullard SKS is going to succeed where your jew hating ribbentrop molotov pacter fell flat on his arse.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2022

    “Starmer’s allies say he will decide when he returns from his holiday on 15 August whether to take disciplinary action against Lisa Nandy” for standing on a picketline yesterday reports
    @GuardianHeather

    Fucking Numpty

    There's a long interview with Nandy in this week's New Statesman.

    Interestingly, she takes two pops at Lammy.

    Does she think he will be facing her in a leadership election?

    I would have thought Rayner v Lammy or Rayner v Streeting more likely if Starmer goes before the General Election or Burnham if after an election lost.

    Nandy came a poor 3rd in the 2020 Labour leadership election well behind Long Bailey let alone Starmer
  • HYUFD said:

    geoffw said:

    I don't care at all about leadership election promises

    "Honest" Keir has proved that they're worth less than manifesto promises

    Right now I care most about steadfast support for Ukraine

    Truss has been resolutely anti-Russian

    Sunak has allegedly been weak in his pro-Ukrainian stance

    "Honest" Keir twice campaigned hard for Ukraine to not exist

    Watching the Commonwealth games I think it would be nice to invite Ukraine to join the Commonwealth when the dust has settled.
    Good idea.
    Why wait?
    On a technical point, Ukraine was never colonised by the British, therefore...
    That’s not a pre-req.
    Indeed, the Republic of Ireland isn't in the Commonwealth but Rwanda and Mozambique and Gabon and Togo are. Ireland was part of the British Empire, the latter 4 weren't
    Gabon and Togo are NOT in the Commonwealth. Togo was occupied by Britain (jointly with France) 1914 to 1916.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MORE IMPORTANTLY

    My diet yields results. 7 pounds down

    I spend my days reading restaurant reviews and fish recipes, and drooling from hunger, but it works

    What is this miracle diet and why can you not eat fish?
    It's a very clever diet where you eat ABSOLUTELY FUCK ALL

    For about 3 days, then you eat normally for 1 day (don't binge), then another 3 days with NOTHING

    Brutal, but it works
    The Auschwitz Diet
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    “Starmer’s allies say he will decide when he returns from his holiday on 15 August whether to take disciplinary action against Lisa Nandy” for standing on a picketline yesterday reports
    @GuardianHeather

    Fucking Numpty

    There's a long interview with Nandy in this week's New Statesman.

    Interestingly, she takes two pops at Lammy.

    Does she think he will be facing her in a leadership election?

    Interesting. I don't have the NS - could you precis what she has a pop at Lammy about?
    Something about him not supporting BA staff strike and then something about eating a pie balm cake the wrong way.
This discussion has been closed.