~35C around London in various spots. At this rate the all-time record will get smashed
Have you got air conditioning?
Nope. One Dyson fan. But my flat is "just" 28C and that temp doesn't seem to be moving, so all the good advice here and elsewhere has worked
It's perfectly comfortable to sit here in the shade and type, in my shorts. Thick Georgian walls probably help, and maybe high ceilings? Dunno
But I can *sense* the heat out there, lurking beyond my blinds
If it is 35C now and we have 3-4 more hours of warming - the highest temp is usually at 4-6pm in these conditions - then the record should fall easily. The question then is: 40C?
Why not pop out and have a few tinnies up on Primrose Hill?
According to the Met Office as I understand it, the figures are only going to rise about 2 degrees on now over the course of the afternoon in various places. So if you can manage now, you can probably manage at 5.
Yes but remember your home is slowly heating up and will be slow to cool.
What makes the make up of the panel correct? Are they conscious about regional biases?
It's not a balanced sample but it is consistent and doesn't allow double voting or other manipulation.
So all the flaws of a focus group?
As we are seeing from PB, people viewing the real world through the prism of what is good for their “favourite”. Some media and the campaigns themselves are weighing in behind these surveys as though, as Beth would say “we know what the members are thinking in that scenario”. I’m not sure we do.
And do we know how many members comprise the electorate? Anything between 100,000 and 200,000 is not the most accurate of measurement. Does the Conservative Psrty have a central database - will we even know what turnout was in this election?
~35C around London in various spots. At this rate the all-time record will get smashed
Have you got air conditioning?
Nope. One Dyson fan. But my flat is "just" 28C and that temp doesn't seem to be moving, so all the good advice here and elsewhere has worked
It's perfectly comfortable to sit here in the shade and type, in my shorts. Thick Georgian walls probably help, and maybe high ceilings? Dunno
But I can *sense* the heat out there, lurking beyond my blinds
If it is 35C now and we have 3-4 more hours of warming - the highest temp is usually at 4-6pm in these conditions - then the record should fall easily. The question then is: 40C?
Why not pop out and have a few tinnies up on Primrose Hill?
I'm off to a beautiful little pub near Regent's Park in a minute. Got a 2 hectare arboretum, a full size ice castle and English Fizz Fountains
Trevelyan has knifed Mordaunt on LBC. Went AWOL and other ministers had to pick up the pieces, apparently.
I have been fascinated at what appears to be the depth of sheer dislike for Mordaunt. It seems to go beyond genuine policy disagreement and more into a need to take her down and humiliate her. Wonder what the background is to all this.
It does rather appear that everyone who’s actually worked with her, doesn’t have a good word to say.
Quite, and there might be something in that. But the way to go about that is to refuse to endorse them and let that speak for itself. It’s not to go on the airwaves to trash talk them, not in an internal process.
Maybe I’m just being old fashioned, I just find it difficult to believe this would have happened even 5 years ago.
Trevelyan has knifed Mordaunt on LBC. Went AWOL and other ministers had to pick up the pieces, apparently.
I have been fascinated at what appears to be the depth of sheer dislike for Mordaunt. It seems to go beyond genuine policy disagreement and more into a need to take her down and humiliate her. Wonder what the background is to all this.
It does rather appear that everyone who’s actually worked with her, doesn’t have a good word to say.
Same with Boris but he still won. Are Conservative MPs once bitten, twice shy?
Trevelyan has knifed Mordaunt on LBC. Went AWOL and other ministers had to pick up the pieces, apparently.
I have been fascinated at what appears to be the depth of sheer dislike for Mordaunt. It seems to go beyond genuine policy disagreement and more into a need to take her down and humiliate her. Wonder what the background is to all this.
A lot of people can say goodbye to their Ministerial careers.
But then, I suspect they knew that.
I think it might be different tribes. Puzzles me how David Davis who worked with her has nothing but great things to say, and Lord Frost who worked with her has nothing but bad things to say. I think we need to hear from the Magician she insisted. 'Always disappearing' would I suppose be more of a benefit in that role though.
One problem with official met office stats is there's an absolute dearth of official measurement in some places. The south looks absolubtely caked in measurements whereas there's nothing anywhere near Doncaster which looks like it might be one of the hottest places (According to ECMWF) in the country tommorow.
I know the manager of the Met Office station network and I have pointed this out to him more than once.
The issue is not really Doncaster itself but the whole area of low lying land south of the Humber / Ouse, some of which is below sea level (hence Flatlander).
There used to be official stations at Bawtry (on the Notts border) and Finningley airport (a bit higher and on the sand), but there really is nothing now. Finningley still publishes readings but they aren't from an official station and the exposure is poor. Gringley on the Hill, is, well, on a hill.
The only representative station is at Cawood agricultural research station nr Selby but that's quite a long way north.
@Steven_Swinford Sounds like Tom Tugendhat has already lost quite a few of his 32 backers ahead of tonight's vote
Team Mordaunt thinks that they're going to pick up a fair few of them - enough to retain a lead over Truss
Others are going over to Sunak
Team Pen would tell the world that of course wether truth or not, but she has not performed well since the last voting 😟 and not to forget Bravermans voters as well as Tom’s, considering Badenoch momentum has wilted under scrutiny too this weekend.
There were posters on here, rather boringly in the early excitement saying it will drift to a Sunak Truss run off longer it goes on? Looks like they have been proved right, thanks to Penny underperforming 🙁
@Steven_Swinford Sounds like Tom Tugendhat has already lost quite a few of his 32 backers ahead of tonight's vote
Team Mordaunt thinks that they're going to pick up a fair few of them - enough to retain a lead over Truss
Others are going over to Sunak
I expect a wholesale collapse in Tugendhat tonight. He’ll be lucky to stay in double digits. Suggest something like 14, losing 12 to Rishi and 6 to Penny.
@Steven_Swinford Sounds like Tom Tugendhat has already lost quite a few of his 32 backers ahead of tonight's vote
Team Mordaunt thinks that they're going to pick up a fair few of them - enough to retain a lead over Truss
Others are going over to Sunak
I expect a wholesale collapse in Tugendhat tonight. He’ll be lucky to stay in double digits. Suggest something like 14, losing 12 to Rishi and 6 to Penny.
Braverman’s votes will almost all go to Truss.
There’s a chance Truss beats Mordaunt tonight.
I don't see a profitable way out for him, Rishi isn't going to heap him with rewards after all the fresh start stuff
Trevelyan has knifed Mordaunt on LBC. Went AWOL and other ministers had to pick up the pieces, apparently.
I have been fascinated at what appears to be the depth of sheer dislike for Mordaunt. It seems to go beyond genuine policy disagreement and more into a need to take her down and humiliate her. Wonder what the background is to all this.
It is certainly unusual to hear someone's competence questioned like this.
~35C around London in various spots. At this rate the all-time record will get smashed
Have you got air conditioning?
Nope. One Dyson fan. But my flat is "just" 28C and that temp doesn't seem to be moving, so all the good advice here and elsewhere has worked
It's perfectly comfortable to sit here in the shade and type, in my shorts. Thick Georgian walls probably help, and maybe high ceilings? Dunno
But I can *sense* the heat out there, lurking beyond my blinds
If it is 35C now and we have 3-4 more hours of warming - the highest temp is usually at 4-6pm in these conditions - then the record should fall easily. The question then is: 40C?
Why not pop out and have a few tinnies up on Primrose Hill?
I'm off to a beautiful little pub near Regent's Park in a minute. Got a 2 hectare arboretum, a full size ice castle and English Fizz Fountains
Yet you just know Weather is going to fail. A lack of self belief. The potential is there yet something prevents the record falling. Psychological
This is a shit heatwave and I for one am off to the dry cleaners
Bloody hell. @Leon (before your time) went to the dry cleaners last week in Montenegro. wtf do you take to Montenegro that needs a dry clean and then another one in London? Is this a euphemism, or a physical dependency on the inhalants available there? Aren't dry cleaners baking hot on hot days?
If we privatised the railways here and removed all subsidies, we'd have no railways left.
Japan built their railways and maintained them via the Government for decades, easy to privatise when it worked fine in the first place. We are not there yet - but we could be.
On the surface the story looks pretty similar. Investment by private companies at the start, followed by nationalisation in the 20th century, then privatisation just before the turn of the century.
Indeed, but the privatisation was done better. Much better.
People forget just how bad ‘80s BR was, before privatisation.
Their own slogan was “We’re Getting There”, and the timetable was about as optional as the catering.
My train the other day was an hour and a half late. And it cost me £90.
And yet that's still better than what you'd have had under nationalised railways, and yet you want to keep our failing system instead of adopting a proper, privatised, functional, subsidy-free system whereby railways companies need to put YOU their consumer first to get their income instead of lobbying politicians to get it instead.
You are what, 39? Born around 1983? So about 11-14 when nationalisation came? Your personal experience of the nationalised railway wouyld have been, at most, ticking off loco names ...
I can tell you that in many ways BR was a lot easier to deal with than the chaos of nationalisation. Above all if you wanted long journeys other than simple commuter ratruns, or properly designed interiors, or connections which were held even if train 1 was a little late.
There is some truth to that, but I'd really argue with your last point. It was easier to hold a train for a late connection back in the 1980s, as there were far fewer trains. If a train ran on a line every hour, you could probably delay it for ten minutes to allow a late connection. If it runs every half-hour, delaying it ten minutes causes all sorts of chaos to the schedule with other trains on the line. The more trains there are, the greater the need to run to schedule.
You have missed the best part - delay attribution. It costs operators per minute of delay they are responsible for. So even if the branch line connecting train is the only one for x number of hours it won't be held if the connecting train is another operator running late.
Connection held: Branch line operator fined £300 a minute, passengers get to their destinations with minimal delay Connection not held: No fine to the branch line operator, intercity operator picks up the bill for delayed passengers getting a refund / taxi / hotel etc
The system is specifically designed to not hold connections. Because that is more efficient.
Delay attribution is brilliant.
Why?
In the good old days of BR, there would be a problem on the line. The infrastructure peeps would throw a TSR (Temporary Speed Restriction) onto the line, for instance saying that trains could go at a maximum of 50MPH instead of 100MPH.
Obviously, the problem needs fixing. But the trains are still running, and the infrastructure peeps are watching their budget. The operations dept. do not want to pay for the work either. So the TSR remains, and it eventually becomes a PSR (Permanent Speed Restriction).
The same with operations failures: if a train breaks down, it does not cost the operator much. Most passengers do not claim refunds, so it is just an inconvenience of calling out a rescue loco. So a fleet-wide issue that increases failure by 1% does not get fixed.
But delay attribution comes in (and AIUI it was being brought in by BR *before* privatisation, once the computer system were powerful enough to allow it).
Now the infrastructure peeps get charged for the delay caused by that TSR. It comes out of their budget. They now look at it and say, "bu**e,r we'd better fix it." Likewise, it is in the operator's interest to do the work to increase reliability, as it costs them if they cause delays.
Delay attribution has been a massive positive for the railways. By all means simplify it, but getting rid of it would be incredibly stupid.
The concept is fine, the application less fine. In my example lets assume that the late-running intercity service was because of something in their control. They have to pay for their delay. Which is fine.
The problem is that the passengers suffer because the other company decided to send the connection. Watching it pull out as you pull in - with the next one hours away - is a uniquely frustrating experience.
Especially when its a branch train with buckets of padding in its own schedule. So the delayed start won't cause problems.
Delay attribution could be used to maintain connections. Instead it does the opposite.
That also happened in the past. The idea that held connections were common is, AIUI, a fantasy.
Also think of *who* delays the train. You are the guard. If you delay your train more than a minute or two to allow a connection, then you have zero idea what the network effects are elsewhere - your action might cause significant problems for other trains and passengers.
Let's say you have a branch line. For simplicity's sale, say each branch line train carries 50 passengers, of which 10 come from the other (main line) train. There is a train every half-hour, connecting with a main-line service every half-hour at RochPion Junction.
On this occasion, the main line train is 5 minutes late arriving at RochPion Jcn. Delaying the branch line train advantages the ten passengers, who now do not have to wait half an hour for the next train. That is 300 passenger-minutes saved. Cool. Except for the 40 passengers who did not come off the connection, who have lost 200 passenger-minutes (the 5-miniute delay).
But because that branch train is now late, it is late for the crossing loop where it passed the other service on the branch. That train, also containing 50 passengers, is delayed by five minutes. That is 250 passenger minutes cost. But the late arrival of that second service means that ten of those passengers have missed their connection at RochPion Jcn, and have to wait 25 minutes for their next train. Another 250 passenger-minute cost.
Hence, that small delay has saved ten passengers 300 minutes, and cost everyone else on the trains 700 minutes.
Yes, this is a simplified example, but it shows how holding trains can actually cost passengers time, especially if only a few people connect. And ops people do try to hold trains, if they can, but often they cannot. And as we have a much busier network nowadays, holding trains is much harder.
The railways are a network, and network effects are massive.
Obvious trends and sub-plots. Looks like there really was a golden Edwardian era before WW1: all those ladies with white parasols. It is noticeably warm
Camden Square used to be a major weather station!
There is a distinct mid-century cooling off, the 1950s-60s are a bit rubbish, likewise the 1980s
But in the 1990s it perhaps begins to pick up and the global warming trend is surely discernible from about 2000 onwards, esp the last decade. And today
(Also some weird anomalies. Hottest place in 1979? Poolewe in the Scottish Highlands - 28.8C. In 1980, Cors Fochno in Dyfed, 29.4C)
High readings from spots on the edge of mountain ranges, like those two, normally arise from the Fohn effect, which can be quite dramatic.
Moist air gets pushed up over the mountains, forcing condensation as rain, while the heat released from the condensation counteracts the normal cooling of air as it rises. You then have a stream of already warm relatively dry air descending into the rain shadow of the mountains, where the warming of air as it sinks (due to rising pressure) combines with direct ground warming from the sunny conditions to create a local warm spot.
It’s quite common north east of the Cairngorms, which despite its latitude can be surprisingly warm.
Yet you just know Weather is going to fail. A lack of self belief. The potential is there yet something prevents the record falling. Psychological
This is a shit heatwave and I for one am off to the dry cleaners
Bloody hell. @Leon (before your time) went to the dry cleaners last week in Montenegro. wtf do you take to Montenegro that needs a dry clean and then another one in London? Is this a euphemism, or a physical dependency on the inhalants available there? Aren't dry cleaners baking hot on hot days?
Cambridge is the last of the big guns. I think london has given up and will barely make a frankly chilly 37.5C
But Cambridge? Yes. They could still do it
UP THE WEATHER
It feels very warm here, just a few miles outside Cambridge. Went for a five minute walk at lunchtime to a friend's house to drop off a clay pig, and it was not pleasant. I could probably do a long walk in it, with enough water, but it would have to be a last resort.
Trevelyan has knifed Mordaunt on LBC. Went AWOL and other ministers had to pick up the pieces, apparently.
I have been fascinated at what appears to be the depth of sheer dislike for Mordaunt. It seems to go beyond genuine policy disagreement and more into a need to take her down and humiliate her. Wonder what the background is to all this.
A lot of people can say goodbye to their Ministerial careers.
But then, I suspect they knew that.
I think it might be different tribes. Puzzles me how David Davis who worked with her has nothing but great things to say, and Lord Frost who worked with her has nothing but bad things to say. I think we need to hear from the Magician she insisted. 'Always disappearing' would I suppose be more of a benefit in that role though.
There's mileage for her here, I think.
"He trusted me with the saw - you can trust me with the country."
@Steven_Swinford Sounds like Tom Tugendhat has already lost quite a few of his 32 backers ahead of tonight's vote
Team Mordaunt thinks that they're going to pick up a fair few of them - enough to retain a lead over Truss
Others are going over to Sunak
I expect a wholesale collapse in Tugendhat tonight. He’ll be lucky to stay in double digits. Suggest something like 14, losing 12 to Rishi and 6 to Penny.
Braverman’s votes will almost all go to Truss.
There’s a chance Truss beats Mordaunt tonight.
I don't see a profitable way out for him, Rishi isn't going to heap him with rewards after all the fresh start stuff
Rishi’s Ministry would not look that different from Johnson’s. We might expect a clear-out of obvious duffers (Rees-Mogg etc), but on the other hand Williamson could be back.
I imagine Rishi would attempt to put all of the last five in his Cabinet; although you would not move Wallace from Defence and so there might not be room for Tugendhat.
Yet you just know Weather is going to fail. A lack of self belief. The potential is there yet something prevents the record falling. Psychological
This is a shit heatwave and I for one am off to the dry cleaners
Bloody hell. @Leon (before your time) went to the dry cleaners last week in Montenegro. wtf do you take to Montenegro that needs a dry clean and then another one in London? Is this a euphemism, or a physical dependency on the inhalants available there? Aren't dry cleaners baking hot on hot days?
Also nonsense, if my train is an hour and half late I can't do anything else because I have no other way to travel. There is no competition on railways. Privatisation is a con.
Of course there is competition. You can drive, you can work from home, you can get a taxi, you can ride a bike. There's plenty of alternatives.
Railway passenger numbers literally more than doubled between privatisation and Covid. After they collapsed during the nationalisation days.
Policy during most of nationalisation was, IIRC managed decline and all investment was controlled by the Treasury.
If you regard more passengers as a bug, not a feature, your business will tend to end up with less passengers. This is a surprising as murder suicides among Putin's (ex) pals.
Nobody seems to want to answer my question: under the new GBR arrangement, what is the BENEFIT of paying First Group to run the railways?
I answered it.
The benefit is that First Group have the incentive of running the railways for the benefits of their consumers, so that their consumers pay them, so they make money.
If its state owned and operated then the politicians are worried about political concerns, polling, lobbyists, "stakeholders" and alternative funding demands like the NHS instead of the consumers.
First Group have the incentive of running the railways for the benefits of their shareholders. That is their primary duty. Not keeping travellers happy. Happiness for the traveller is an incidental and wholly contingent result.
Unhappy travellers, they lose consumers, they lose income, they lose value for their shareholders.
Happy travellers, they keep consumers, they generate income, they make value for their shareholders.
Not as simple as that. The traveller - not 'consumer' - generally has only partial choice, for instance if commuting.
Barty appears to see competition - or its absence - as some sort of binary abstract.
Odd way of looking at the world.
(edit - why does autocorrect default to adding apostrophes where they're not wanted ?)
Maybe it's the greengrocery option for Vanilla which someone switched on in error.
Travelling to our refuge hotel in the next town to sit out the next couple of days. Have to go back to work tomorrow and won't be able to use the trains to get back and forth because the entire service has been axed for Tuesday. They're obviously in a real panic about the tracks and the overhead lines. Mercifully I can get a lift.
Train is nice and comfy but it's already really quite hot out. This afternoon promises to be like something from the infernal regions. Grim.
As I understand it the Network Rail engineers have serious concerns and for good reasons. Two problem areas: 1 Rails. Much of our main lines uses Continuous Welded Rail - which is what it sounds like. These are pre-stressed to a set temperature and can expand and contract within the defined boundaries. Which covers us for the usual broad temperature ranges we get. The problem is that with the mid 30s+ forecast this pushes rail temps into the danger zone. Rails will buckle sideways if they can't expand any further, which is Bad. 2 Wires. Much of the overhead line equipment is fitted with tensioner weights at the end of the run. These allow the wires to expand and contract within reason - and yup, temperatures are forecast outside of that. Different routes have different kit, and no surprise that the done on the cheap to save Tory tax East Coast is one of the worst hit, with no trains running south of York tomorrow.
Cue the usual whines about other countries managing. Well they do, and they don't. Restrictions in place in Spain AIUI, and they tension rails for a different range of temps that don't have the extremes that we do...
Italy paints her rails white to reduce the buckling problem.
Sweden has serious rail disruption every summer due to buckled track, but mostly on smaller, rural sections which haven’t been renovated for over 10 years. Newer track rarely has the issue.
( from earlier: Another Swedish heat trick is building living space underground. Villas traditionally have gillestugor: a living room built underground. Often in bedrock. Deliciously cool even in the most ferocious continental heatwave.
Rather nice photo here showing what happens if the heat comes halfway through the job of renewing track ...
Yet you just know Weather is going to fail. A lack of self belief. The potential is there yet something prevents the record falling. Psychological
This is a shit heatwave and I for one am off to the dry cleaners
Bloody hell. @Leon (before your time) went to the dry cleaners last week in Montenegro. wtf do you take to Montenegro that needs a dry clean and then another one in London? Is this a euphemism, or a physical dependency on the inhalants available there? Aren't dry cleaners baking hot on hot days?
They iron my linen shirts
I still have fond memories of the hotel bar in HK (pre handover!) where after my first Stinger, the bar tender enquired whether I wanted the tab on the room to be under Laundry or Dry Cleaning.....
I'll take a punt (and one admittedly would suit me very well financially) - Badenoch will get to 60 and above. I think there's a fair bit of dissension over Truss in the ERG, she's had some fairly good numbers in the surveys and the MPs will be listening to their constituents.
I'd also slightly disagree that the consensual view on here that she lost momentum last night is correct necessarily - as I said, The Telegraph seems to differ from what people thought here (and probably closer to @NickPalmer's comments) and I'm weary of using the betting markets as too accurate a guide to momentum given we influence it a lot on here with our comments.
Yet you just know Weather is going to fail. A lack of self belief. The potential is there yet something prevents the record falling. Psychological
This is a shit heatwave and I for one am off to the dry cleaners
Bloody hell. @Leon (before your time) went to the dry cleaners last week in Montenegro. wtf do you take to Montenegro that needs a dry clean and then another one in London? Is this a euphemism, or a physical dependency on the inhalants available there? Aren't dry cleaners baking hot on hot days?
If we privatised the railways here and removed all subsidies, we'd have no railways left.
Japan built their railways and maintained them via the Government for decades, easy to privatise when it worked fine in the first place. We are not there yet - but we could be.
On the surface the story looks pretty similar. Investment by private companies at the start, followed by nationalisation in the 20th century, then privatisation just before the turn of the century.
Indeed, but the privatisation was done better. Much better.
People forget just how bad ‘80s BR was, before privatisation.
Their own slogan was “We’re Getting There”, and the timetable was about as optional as the catering.
My train the other day was an hour and a half late. And it cost me £90.
And yet that's still better than what you'd have had under nationalised railways, and yet you want to keep our failing system instead of adopting a proper, privatised, functional, subsidy-free system whereby railways companies need to put YOU their consumer first to get their income instead of lobbying politicians to get it instead.
You are what, 39? Born around 1983? So about 11-14 when nationalisation came? Your personal experience of the nationalised railway wouyld have been, at most, ticking off loco names ...
I can tell you that in many ways BR was a lot easier to deal with than the chaos of nationalisation. Above all if you wanted long journeys other than simple commuter ratruns, or properly designed interiors, or connections which were held even if train 1 was a little late.
There is some truth to that, but I'd really argue with your last point. It was easier to hold a train for a late connection back in the 1980s, as there were far fewer trains. If a train ran on a line every hour, you could probably delay it for ten minutes to allow a late connection. If it runs every half-hour, delaying it ten minutes causes all sorts of chaos to the schedule with other trains on the line. The more trains there are, the greater the need to run to schedule.
You have missed the best part - delay attribution. It costs operators per minute of delay they are responsible for. So even if the branch line connecting train is the only one for x number of hours it won't be held if the connecting train is another operator running late.
Connection held: Branch line operator fined £300 a minute, passengers get to their destinations with minimal delay Connection not held: No fine to the branch line operator, intercity operator picks up the bill for delayed passengers getting a refund / taxi / hotel etc
The system is specifically designed to not hold connections. Because that is more efficient.
Delay attribution is brilliant.
Why?
In the good old days of BR, there would be a problem on the line. The infrastructure peeps would throw a TSR (Temporary Speed Restriction) onto the line, for instance saying that trains could go at a maximum of 50MPH instead of 100MPH.
Obviously, the problem needs fixing. But the trains are still running, and the infrastructure peeps are watching their budget. The operations dept. do not want to pay for the work either. So the TSR remains, and it eventually becomes a PSR (Permanent Speed Restriction).
The same with operations failures: if a train breaks down, it does not cost the operator much. Most passengers do not claim refunds, so it is just an inconvenience of calling out a rescue loco. So a fleet-wide issue that increases failure by 1% does not get fixed.
But delay attribution comes in (and AIUI it was being brought in by BR *before* privatisation, once the computer system were powerful enough to allow it).
Now the infrastructure peeps get charged for the delay caused by that TSR. It comes out of their budget. They now look at it and say, "bu**e,r we'd better fix it." Likewise, it is in the operator's interest to do the work to increase reliability, as it costs them if they cause delays.
Delay attribution has been a massive positive for the railways. By all means simplify it, but getting rid of it would be incredibly stupid.
The concept is fine, the application less fine. In my example lets assume that the late-running intercity service was because of something in their control. They have to pay for their delay. Which is fine.
The problem is that the passengers suffer because the other company decided to send the connection. Watching it pull out as you pull in - with the next one hours away - is a uniquely frustrating experience.
Especially when its a branch train with buckets of padding in its own schedule. So the delayed start won't cause problems.
Delay attribution could be used to maintain connections. Instead it does the opposite.
That also happened in the past. The idea that held connections were common is, AIUI, a fantasy.
Also think of *who* delays the train. You are the guard. If you delay your train more than a minute or two to allow a connection, then you have zero idea what the network effects are elsewhere - your action might cause significant problems for other trains and passengers.
Let's say you have a branch line. For simplicity's sale, say each branch line train carries 50 passengers, of which 10 come from the other (main line) train. There is a train every half-hour, connecting with a main-line service every half-hour at RochPion Junction.
On this occasion, the main line train is 5 minutes late arriving at RochPion Jcn. Delaying the branch line train advantages the ten passengers, who now do not have to wait half an hour for the next train. That is 300 passenger-minutes saved. Cool. Except for the 40 passengers who did not come off the connection, who have lost 200 passenger-minutes (the 5-miniute delay).
But because that branch train is now late, it is late for the crossing loop where it passed the other service on the branch. That train, also containing 50 passengers, is delayed by five minutes. That is 250 passenger minutes cost. But the late arrival of that second service means that ten of those passengers have missed their connection at RochPion Jcn, and have to wait 25 minutes for their next train. Another 250 passenger-minute cost.
Hence, that small delay has saved ten passengers 300 minutes, and cost everyone else on the trains 700 minutes.
Yes, this is a simplified example, but it shows how holding trains can actually cost passengers time, especially if only a few people connect. And ops people do try to hold trains, if they can, but often they cannot. And as we have a much busier network nowadays, holding trains is much harder.
The railways are a network, and network effects are massive.
Quite. But the change I am thinking of was kept within brief limits. However, even those limits made a big difference, and were formally timeabled as a connection. Another thing that has been swept away.
Also nonsense, if my train is an hour and half late I can't do anything else because I have no other way to travel. There is no competition on railways. Privatisation is a con.
Of course there is competition. You can drive, you can work from home, you can get a taxi, you can ride a bike. There's plenty of alternatives.
Railway passenger numbers literally more than doubled between privatisation and Covid. After they collapsed during the nationalisation days.
Policy during most of nationalisation was, IIRC managed decline and all investment was controlled by the Treasury.
If you regard more passengers as a bug, not a feature, your business will tend to end up with less passengers. This is a surprising as murder suicides among Putin's (ex) pals.
Classic Treasury, there. Seem not to be aware of economic text-books after about 1820.
With reference to the graphs on rail usage posted earlier, it seems to me blindingly obvious that the decline in rail usage between around 1955 and 1975 was entirely due to the rise of the private motor car, rather than any perceived or real failings of BR/nationalisation. Once the roads got too full, some people returned to the railways.
Yet you just know Weather is going to fail. A lack of self belief. The potential is there yet something prevents the record falling. Psychological
This is a shit heatwave and I for one am off to the dry cleaners
Bloody hell. @Leon (before your time) went to the dry cleaners last week in Montenegro. wtf do you take to Montenegro that needs a dry clean and then another one in London? Is this a euphemism, or a physical dependency on the inhalants available there? Aren't dry cleaners baking hot on hot days?
They iron my linen shirts
Do you like penis shaped objects
Who doesn’t?
Had Stornoway black pudding for lunch yesterday. So yes, I agree.
@Steven_Swinford Sounds like Tom Tugendhat has already lost quite a few of his 32 backers ahead of tonight's vote
Team Mordaunt thinks that they're going to pick up a fair few of them - enough to retain a lead over Truss
Others are going over to Sunak
I expect a wholesale collapse in Tugendhat tonight. He’ll be lucky to stay in double digits. Suggest something like 14, losing 12 to Rishi and 6 to Penny.
Braverman’s votes will almost all go to Truss.
There’s a chance Truss beats Mordaunt tonight.
I don't see a profitable way out for him, Rishi isn't going to heap him with rewards after all the fresh start stuff
Rishi’s Ministry would not look that different from Johnson’s. We might expect a clear-out of obvious duffers (Rees-Mogg etc), but on the other hand Williamson could be back.
I imagine Rishi would attempt to put all of the last five in his Cabinet; although you would not move Wallace from Defence and so there might not be room for Tugendhat.
One of the other problems the railways had was that theyu were legally obliged to carry anything and everything, however small or uneconomic - from a single parcel to a circus elephant. I can't remember when that was changed in law, but it must have been about 1970?
It was a huge issue for the private railways as for BR before them. Also in the USA.
Also nonsense, if my train is an hour and half late I can't do anything else because I have no other way to travel. There is no competition on railways. Privatisation is a con.
Of course there is competition. You can drive, you can work from home, you can get a taxi, you can ride a bike. There's plenty of alternatives.
Railway passenger numbers literally more than doubled between privatisation and Covid. After they collapsed during the nationalisation days.
Policy during most of nationalisation was, IIRC managed decline and all investment was controlled by the Treasury.
If you regard more passengers as a bug, not a feature, your business will tend to end up with less passengers. This is a surprising as murder suicides among Putin's (ex) pals.
Classic Treasury, there. Seem not to be aware of economic text-books after about 1820.
I think if Rishi wins he should make Kemi the Chancellor. She may actually go in and smash the place up and get rid of all the declinists that currently infest it.
@Steven_Swinford Sounds like Tom Tugendhat has already lost quite a few of his 32 backers ahead of tonight's vote
Team Mordaunt thinks that they're going to pick up a fair few of them - enough to retain a lead over Truss
Others are going over to Sunak
I expect a wholesale collapse in Tugendhat tonight. He’ll be lucky to stay in double digits. Suggest something like 14, losing 12 to Rishi and 6 to Penny.
Braverman’s votes will almost all go to Truss.
There’s a chance Truss beats Mordaunt tonight.
I don't see a profitable way out for him, Rishi isn't going to heap him with rewards after all the fresh start stuff
Rishi’s Ministry would not look that different from Johnson’s. We might expect a clear-out of obvious duffers (Rees-Mogg etc), but on the other hand Williamson could be back.
I imagine Rishi would attempt to put all of the last five in his Cabinet; although you would not move Wallace from Defence and so there might not be room for Tugendhat.
I imagine Javid will return as Chancellor.
Tricky to have PM and CE with non dom issues
True, but I’m casting around for other possibilities. Simon Clarke or Steve Barclay, I suppose. Non-entities, all.
British trains often feel a bit cramped and for a long time I assumed Britain had a narrow gauge and therefore the carriages were narrower.
(As you can see I am not an engineer and know nothing about trains).
Having learned today that Britain is standard gauge, I presume therefore that the privatised operators merely pack the seating more densely.
They do. Longitudinally as well, which is why the origina 125s were much more comfortable, with proper tables at each window spacing.
TIL it is about the loading gauge. But I was right that British trains do tend to be more cramped.
As a useless fact, it's worse on the old Mark-IV coaches used on the ECML with the class 91's (now being replaced by the Azuma). The Mark-IV coaches were designed so that tilting could be added later if necessary, and hence they have an APT-style narrowing profile from sole bar upwards. It'd be interesting to know if any PBers who travelled on them regularly ever noticed...
The tilting Pendelinos also have narrower profiles for the same reason.
Doesn't feel too bad so far, maybe because it isn't particularly humid.
Yep the humidity is key. The hottest I've ever been was in Borneo with a combo of heat and high humidity. This doesn't feel as hot even though it's hotter.
I'll take a punt (and one admittedly would suit me very well financially) - Badenoch will get to 60 and above. I think there's a fair bit of dissension over Truss in the ERG, she's had some fairly good numbers in the surveys and the MPs will be listening to their constituents.
I'd also slightly disagree that the consensual view on here that she lost momentum last night is correct necessarily - as I said, The Telegraph seems to differ from what people thought here (and probably closer to @NickPalmer's comments) and I'm weary of using the betting markets as too accurate a guide to momentum given we influence it a lot on here with our comments.
Some pollsters are not great at reaching brexity WWC voters, in my view. Hence the discrepancy between the snap polls and what we see on sites like Conhome.
Also nonsense, if my train is an hour and half late I can't do anything else because I have no other way to travel. There is no competition on railways. Privatisation is a con.
Of course there is competition. You can drive, you can work from home, you can get a taxi, you can ride a bike. There's plenty of alternatives.
Railway passenger numbers literally more than doubled between privatisation and Covid. After they collapsed during the nationalisation days.
Policy during most of nationalisation was, IIRC managed decline and all investment was controlled by the Treasury.
If you regard more passengers as a bug, not a feature, your business will tend to end up with less passengers. This is a surprising as murder suicides among Putin's (ex) pals.
Classic Treasury, there. Seem not to be aware of economic text-books after about 1820.
I think if Rishi wins he should make Kemi the Chancellor. She may actually go in and smash the place up and get rid of all the declinists that currently infest it.
Yes but you and I know he won’t, which is why we don’t like him in the first place.
According to the Met Office as I understand it, the figures are only going to rise about 2 degrees on now over the course of the afternoon in various places. So if you can manage now, you can probably manage at 5.
Yes but remember your home is slowly heating up and will be slow to cool.
I reckon two days of this won't be that bad. A full week might have been catastrophic.
Travelling to our refuge hotel in the next town to sit out the next couple of days. Have to go back to work tomorrow and won't be able to use the trains to get back and forth because the entire service has been axed for Tuesday. They're obviously in a real panic about the tracks and the overhead lines. Mercifully I can get a lift.
Train is nice and comfy but it's already really quite hot out. This afternoon promises to be like something from the infernal regions. Grim.
As I understand it the Network Rail engineers have serious concerns and for good reasons. Two problem areas: 1 Rails. Much of our main lines uses Continuous Welded Rail - which is what it sounds like. These are pre-stressed to a set temperature and can expand and contract within the defined boundaries. Which covers us for the usual broad temperature ranges we get. The problem is that with the mid 30s+ forecast this pushes rail temps into the danger zone. Rails will buckle sideways if they can't expand any further, which is Bad. 2 Wires. Much of the overhead line equipment is fitted with tensioner weights at the end of the run. These allow the wires to expand and contract within reason - and yup, temperatures are forecast outside of that. Different routes have different kit, and no surprise that the done on the cheap to save Tory tax East Coast is one of the worst hit, with no trains running south of York tomorrow.
Cue the usual whines about other countries managing. Well they do, and they don't. Restrictions in place in Spain AIUI, and they tension rails for a different range of temps that don't have the extremes that we do...
Italy paints her rails white to reduce the buckling problem.
Sweden has serious rail disruption every summer due to buckled track, but mostly on smaller, rural sections which haven’t been renovated for over 10 years. Newer track rarely has the issue.
( from earlier: Another Swedish heat trick is building living space underground. Villas traditionally have gillestugor: a living room built underground. Often in bedrock. Deliciously cool even in the most ferocious continental heatwave.
Rather nice photo here showing what happens if the heat comes halfway through the job of renewing track ...
British trains often feel a bit cramped and for a long time I assumed Britain had a narrow gauge and therefore the carriages were narrower.
(As you can see I am not an engineer and know nothing about trains).
Having learned today that Britain is standard gauge, I presume therefore that the privatised operators merely pack the seating more densely.
They do. Longitudinally as well, which is why the origina 125s were much more comfortable, with proper tables at each window spacing.
TIL it is about the loading gauge. But I was right that British trains do tend to be more cramped.
As a useless fact, it's worse on the old Mark-IV coaches used on the ECML with the class 91's (now being replaced by the Azuma). The Mark-IV coaches were designed so that tilting could be added later if necessary, and hence they have an APT-style narrowing profile from sole bar upwards. It'd be interesting to know if any PBers who travelled on them regularly ever noticed...
The tilting Pendelinos also have narrower profiles for the same reason.
Not that I recall, but the most important element would have been the width at seated person shoulder and hip height anyway.
Trevelyan has knifed Mordaunt on LBC. Went AWOL and other ministers had to pick up the pieces, apparently.
I have been fascinated at what appears to be the depth of sheer dislike for Mordaunt. It seems to go beyond genuine policy disagreement and more into a need to take her down and humiliate her. Wonder what the background is to all this.
A lot of people can say goodbye to their Ministerial careers.
But then, I suspect they knew that.
I think it might be different tribes. Puzzles me how David Davis who worked with her has nothing but great things to say, and Lord Frost who worked with her has nothing but bad things to say. I think we need to hear from the Magician she insisted. 'Always disappearing' would I suppose be more of a benefit in that role though.
I don't think you can account either of those two reliable witnesses.
Also nonsense, if my train is an hour and half late I can't do anything else because I have no other way to travel. There is no competition on railways. Privatisation is a con.
Of course there is competition. You can drive, you can work from home, you can get a taxi, you can ride a bike. There's plenty of alternatives.
Railway passenger numbers literally more than doubled between privatisation and Covid. After they collapsed during the nationalisation days.
Policy during most of nationalisation was, IIRC managed decline and all investment was controlled by the Treasury.
If you regard more passengers as a bug, not a feature, your business will tend to end up with less passengers. This is a surprising as murder suicides among Putin's (ex) pals.
Classic Treasury, there. Seem not to be aware of economic text-books after about 1820.
Political economics - bung a subsidy. Immediate, cheap, gets you to the next election.
Investment takes multiple parliaments, often reducing "immediate jobs" (productivity)*, disruption, costs much more (short term) etc...
Which is why many nationalised industries were run into the ground.
*When I was growing up in the 80s, it was very common for Trade Union officials and Labour MPs to criticise productivity increases as reducing employment. The Lump of Work fallacy seemed quite widespread.
One of the other problems the railways had was that theyu were legally obliged to carry anything and everything, however small or uneconomic - from a single parcel to a circus elephant. I can't remember when that was changed in law, but it must have been about 1970?
It was a huge issue for the private railways as for BR before them. Also in the USA.
Common Carrier. And yes, it was a *massive* issue for the railways, and it took far too long to be repealed.
In the last few hours, Mordaunt has been out, then in, now out again to 4/1. What it means is anyone's guess. I think the hustings start round about now but I've mislaid the link.
One of the other problems the railways had was that theyu were legally obliged to carry anything and everything, however small or uneconomic - from a single parcel to a circus elephant. I can't remember when that was changed in law, but it must have been about 1970?
It was a huge issue for the private railways as for BR before them. Also in the USA.
Common Carrier. And yes, it was a *massive* issue for the railways, and it took far too long to be repealed.
That's it! Thanks. I was thinking in terms of the parcels service closure, but obviously that must have taken some time.
The other problem was private owner wagons - four wheel, crap quality to begin with, badly maintained, poorly equipped with brakes (sometimes not at all, other than a stationary handbrake) and lube, and of inconsistent standards. Having to run an assortment in trains when you had no control over them ... they lasted into the 1960s I think?
(Not concerned with the high quality modern ones on bogies for trainload traffic from one place to another, that's different.)
Trevelyan has knifed Mordaunt on LBC. Went AWOL and other ministers had to pick up the pieces, apparently.
I have been fascinated at what appears to be the depth of sheer dislike for Mordaunt. It seems to go beyond genuine policy disagreement and more into a need to take her down and humiliate her. Wonder what the background is to all this.
A lot of people can say goodbye to their Ministerial careers.
But then, I suspect they knew that.
I think it might be different tribes. Puzzles me how David Davis who worked with her has nothing but great things to say, and Lord Frost who worked with her has nothing but bad things to say. I think we need to hear from the Magician she insisted. 'Always disappearing' would I suppose be more of a benefit in that role though.
I don't think you can account either of those two reliable witnesses.
Milord Frosties apparently thought she wasn't sufficiently "tough " enough with Europe, which somehow doesn't surprise me , on the planet he lives on.
One of the other problems the railways had was that theyu were legally obliged to carry anything and everything, however small or uneconomic - from a single parcel to a circus elephant. I can't remember when that was changed in law, but it must have been about 1970?
It was a huge issue for the private railways as for BR before them. Also in the USA.
Common Carrier. And yes, it was a *massive* issue for the railways, and it took far too long to be repealed.
Hospital ice lollies being distributed as I type. Just what the Doctor ordered!
Many many years ago when the world was very different I worked at Southend hospital pharmacy. (Vacation job). We made lollies in the microbiology fridge as the weather was very warm indeed. All the junior nurses came out in boils! 1959 if memory serves.
Doesn't feel too bad so far, maybe because it isn't particularly humid.
Yep the humidity is key. The hottest I've ever been was in Borneo with a combo of heat and high humidity. This doesn't feel as hot even though it's hotter.
It undoubtedly helps that it's dry, but it's pretty savage nonetheless. Pleased to be out of it for the day.
One of the other problems the railways had was that theyu were legally obliged to carry anything and everything, however small or uneconomic - from a single parcel to a circus elephant. I can't remember when that was changed in law, but it must have been about 1970?
It was a huge issue for the private railways as for BR before them. Also in the USA.
Common Carrier. And yes, it was a *massive* issue for the railways, and it took far too long to be repealed.
You go with one company because the train goes at the time you want to leave, you don't go because it's GWR vs CrossCountry, that is not how any rational human behaves.
Now I am off for lunch! Have a good afternoon
I avoid CrossCountry trains wherever possible because the Voyager trains are so painfully poor to travel on. They're normally cheaper than the LNER trains for the bit of the ECML that they share, but no point in punishing myself for the sake of a few quid.
With reference to the graphs on rail usage posted earlier, it seems to me blindingly obvious that the decline in rail usage between around 1955 and 1975 was entirely due to the rise of the private motor car, rather than any perceived or real failings of BR/nationalisation. Once the roads got too full, some people returned to the railways.
Hospital ice lollies being distributed as I type. Just what the Doctor ordered!
Many many years ago when the world was very different I worked at Southend hospital pharmacy. (Vacation job). We made lollies in the microbiology fridge as the weather was very warm indeed. All the junior nurses came out in boils! 1959 if memory serves.
And in the Colchester area it has hit 35°C!
How teasingly ambiguous you are!
Did the boils relate to the lollies or were the lollies the treatment?
Interesting comment by a fellow alumni of Truss's at Roundhay "Comp" explaining it was far from the sink school of limited opportunities she implied. The commentator did go on to say the school outperformed it's standards (when Truss was there) during a Conservative Government after Labour took over Education policy in 1997.
One of the other problems the railways had was that theyu were legally obliged to carry anything and everything, however small or uneconomic - from a single parcel to a circus elephant. I can't remember when that was changed in law, but it must have been about 1970?
It was a huge issue for the private railways as for BR before them. Also in the USA.
Common Carrier. And yes, it was a *massive* issue for the railways, and it took far too long to be repealed.
That's it! Thanks. I was thinking in terms of the parcels service closure, but obviously that must have taken some time.
The other problem was private owner wagons - four wheel, crap quality to begin with, badly maintained, poorly equipped with brakes (sometimes not at all, other than a stationary handbrake) and lube, and of inconsistent standards. Having to run an assortment in trains when you had no control over them ... they lasted into the 1960s I think?
(Not concerned with the high quality modern ones on bogies for trainload traffic from one place to another, that's different.)
When nationalisation occurred, the new BR had to discover its stock and renumber everything from engines, coaches, wagons and even ships. To do this, they needed to know what stock they owned. And it proved to be a massive issue. ISTR that the newly-formed National Coal Board was using hundreds of BR's wagons to 'store' coal, whilst BR had inherited wagons that 'belonged' to the NCB and other private companies. It was an absolute mess.
I once saw a thirty-foot steel flat-bed wagon at a steelworks site in Sheffield (circa 1989). They had put something heavy on it, as the buffer beams were angled up towards the sky, and the bottom of the wagon was nearly touching the rails.
But if Weather fails I reckon this could be a disaster for Weather in the UK, it will be like cricket in the Windies. Too many failures and near-misses will mean that people will turn away to other things, giving up on Weather, and focusing attention on domestic livestock or walls.
Thirty months of hurt, since 2019, but this may be the last time I invest, emotionally
With reference to the graphs on rail usage posted earlier, it seems to me blindingly obvious that the decline in rail usage between around 1955 and 1975 was entirely due to the rise of the private motor car, rather than any perceived or real failings of BR/nationalisation. Once the roads got too full, some people returned to the railways.
Also the closure of the branch lines.
...yet the branch lines were closed by Beeching due to very low usage......
Important note. They haven't been suspended for treason. But for treason in their departments. Slightly different.
I think it's that quite a few in Ukraine's administration are Zelensky's old mates who came to power with him, and have proved not up to the job. As you imply, it's as likely a lack of competence in preventing infiltration/subversion in departments which are obvious targets for Russia as it is anything more sinister on their part.
Hospital ice lollies being distributed as I type. Just what the Doctor ordered!
I bet they've still got windows shut and the heating on lol?
Nah, estates found us a portable AC unit for outpatients, windows always open for covid anyway. Apparently though the heating is on somewhere in the building according to the rumour mill!
Hospital ice lollies being distributed as I type. Just what the Doctor ordered!
Many many years ago when the world was very different I worked at Southend hospital pharmacy. (Vacation job). We made lollies in the microbiology fridge as the weather was very warm indeed. All the junior nurses came out in boils! 1959 if memory serves.
And in the Colchester area it has hit 35°C!
What a great story, This somehow makes me think of one of the early Carry On films, or "Doctor in The House". Chief superintendent pharmacist Hattie Jacques flouncing in in a white coat to tell all you students and nurses off.
Trevelyan has knifed Mordaunt on LBC. Went AWOL and other ministers had to pick up the pieces, apparently.
I have been fascinated at what appears to be the depth of sheer dislike for Mordaunt. It seems to go beyond genuine policy disagreement and more into a need to take her down and humiliate her. Wonder what the background is to all this.
A lot of people can say goodbye to their Ministerial careers.
But then, I suspect they knew that.
I think it might be different tribes. Puzzles me how David Davis who worked with her has nothing but great things to say, and Lord Frost who worked with her has nothing but bad things to say. I think we need to hear from the Magician she insisted. 'Always disappearing' would I suppose be more of a benefit in that role though.
I don't think you can account either of those two reliable witnesses.
Milord Frosties apparently thought she wasn't sufficiently "tough " enough with Europe, which somehow doesn't surprise me , on the planet he lives on.
Would you employ either of the two to advise you on personnel recruitment ? (Or in any capacity whatsoever...)
Also nonsense, if my train is an hour and half late I can't do anything else because I have no other way to travel. There is no competition on railways. Privatisation is a con.
Of course there is competition. You can drive, you can work from home, you can get a taxi, you can ride a bike. There's plenty of alternatives.
Railway passenger numbers literally more than doubled between privatisation and Covid. After they collapsed during the nationalisation days.
Policy during most of nationalisation was, IIRC managed decline and all investment was controlled by the Treasury.
If you regard more passengers as a bug, not a feature, your business will tend to end up with less passengers. This is a surprising as murder suicides among Putin's (ex) pals.
Classic Treasury, there. Seem not to be aware of economic text-books after about 1820.
I think if Rishi wins he should make Kemi the Chancellor. She may actually go in and smash the place up and get rid of all the declinists that currently infest it.
No chance, Rishi has completely gone native. Its sad to see.
British trains often feel a bit cramped and for a long time I assumed Britain had a narrow gauge and therefore the carriages were narrower.
(As you can see I am not an engineer and know nothing about trains).
Having learned today that Britain is standard gauge, I presume therefore that the privatised operators merely pack the seating more densely.
They do. Longitudinally as well, which is why the origina 125s were much more comfortable, with proper tables at each window spacing.
TIL it is about the loading gauge. But I was right that British trains do tend to be more cramped.
As a useless fact, it's worse on the old Mark-IV coaches used on the ECML with the class 91's (now being replaced by the Azuma). The Mark-IV coaches were designed so that tilting could be added later if necessary, and hence they have an APT-style narrowing profile from sole bar upwards. It'd be interesting to know if any PBers who travelled on them regularly ever noticed...
The tilting Pendelinos also have narrower profiles for the same reason.
The Azuma is a pretty nice train, spent 8 hours on one coming back from the Highlands yesterday, but it's still not as good as the HST/Mk3 coach. In terms of passenger experience I don't think the HST has been bettered.
But if Weather fails I reckon this could be a disaster for Weather in the UK, it will be like cricket in the Windies. Too many failures and near-misses will mean that people will turn away to other things, giving up on Weather, and focusing attention on domestic livestock or walls.
Thirty months of hurt, since 2019, but this may be the last time I invest, emotionally
With reference to the graphs on rail usage posted earlier, it seems to me blindingly obvious that the decline in rail usage between around 1955 and 1975 was entirely due to the rise of the private motor car, rather than any perceived or real failings of BR/nationalisation. Once the roads got too full, some people returned to the railways.
Why is it 'blindingly obvious' ? The railways change massively in that twenty years: a large section of the network closed, we changed from majority-steam to no-steam, we went from 101 different types of coaches to the Mk-I and Mk-II, and the trains were notoriously unreliable, especially compared to nowadays. The railways were doing everything they could to discourage those pesky passengers and inconvenient freight.
Like many things, the rise in passengers over the last 30 years will be multi-factored. I would not for a moment say that the increase in passengers since privatisation is *all* down to privatisation; there are other factors such as the governments' investments. But those who say privatisation had no effect would IMO also be very wrong.
British trains often feel a bit cramped and for a long time I assumed Britain had a narrow gauge and therefore the carriages were narrower.
(As you can see I am not an engineer and know nothing about trains).
Having learned today that Britain is standard gauge, I presume therefore that the privatised operators merely pack the seating more densely.
They do. Longitudinally as well, which is why the origina 125s were much more comfortable, with proper tables at each window spacing.
TIL it is about the loading gauge. But I was right that British trains do tend to be more cramped.
As a useless fact, it's worse on the old Mark-IV coaches used on the ECML with the class 91's (now being replaced by the Azuma). The Mark-IV coaches were designed so that tilting could be added later if necessary, and hence they have an APT-style narrowing profile from sole bar upwards. It'd be interesting to know if any PBers who travelled on them regularly ever noticed...
The tilting Pendelinos also have narrower profiles for the same reason.
The Azuma is a pretty nice train, spent 8 hours on one coming back from the Highlands yesterday, but it's still not as good as the HST/Mk3 coach. In terms of passenger experience I don't think the HST has been bettered.
@Steven_Swinford Sounds like Tom Tugendhat has already lost quite a few of his 32 backers ahead of tonight's vote
Team Mordaunt thinks that they're going to pick up a fair few of them - enough to retain a lead over Truss
Others are going over to Sunak
So, million $ question - will the Badenoch people put Truss or Mordaunt into the Final?
Truss, obv. Badenoch is hard right, small state, libertarian, anti-woke. Her supporters aren't going to switch to Mordaunt.
There are some snakes in the grass amongst her supporters though.
Like Gove, Gove, Gove and Gove.
Its interesting that all the usual suspects normally aligned with Gove are backing Rishi, while Gove himself is suddenly backing this almost unheard-of opponent who is splitting votes Truss would have been going for.
Gove is Machiavellian enough I think he's actually backing Badenoch in order to weaken Truss, and he'll be backing Rishi afterwards.
Comments
As we are seeing from PB, people viewing the real world through the prism of what is good for their “favourite”. Some media and the campaigns themselves are weighing in behind these surveys as though, as Beth would say “we know what the members are thinking in that scenario”. I’m not sure we do.
And do we know how many members comprise the electorate? Anything between 100,000 and 200,000 is not the most accurate of measurement. Does the Conservative Psrty have a central database - will we even know what turnout was in this election?
Bit warm isn't it?
Maybe I’m just being old fashioned, I just find it difficult to believe this would have happened even 5 years ago.
COME ON WEATHER, ONE MORE HEAVE
Yet you just know Weather is going to fail. A lack of self belief. The potential is there yet something prevents the record falling. Psychological
This is a shit heatwave and I for one am off to the dry cleaners
The issue is not really Doncaster itself but the whole area of low lying land south of the Humber / Ouse, some of which is below sea level (hence Flatlander).
There used to be official stations at Bawtry (on the Notts border) and Finningley airport (a bit higher and on the sand), but there really is nothing now. Finningley still publishes readings but they aren't from an official station and the exposure is poor. Gringley on the Hill, is, well, on a hill.
The only representative station is at Cawood agricultural research station nr Selby but that's quite a long way north.
There were posters on here, rather boringly in the early excitement saying it will drift to a Sunak Truss run off longer it goes on? Looks like they have been proved right, thanks to Penny underperforming 🙁
https://en.allmetsat.com/metar-taf/united-kingdom-ireland.php?icao=EGSC
Suggest something like 14, losing 12 to Rishi and 6 to Penny.
Braverman’s votes will almost all go to Truss.
There’s a chance Truss beats Mordaunt tonight.
But Cambridge? Yes. They could still do it
UP THE WEATHER
Sunak, 118
Mordaunt, 84
Truss, 83
Badenoch, 56
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62202078
Also think of *who* delays the train. You are the guard. If you delay your train more than a minute or two to allow a connection, then you have zero idea what the network effects are elsewhere - your action might cause significant problems for other trains and passengers.
Let's say you have a branch line. For simplicity's sale, say each branch line train carries 50 passengers, of which 10 come from the other (main line) train. There is a train every half-hour, connecting with a main-line service every half-hour at RochPion Junction.
On this occasion, the main line train is 5 minutes late arriving at RochPion Jcn. Delaying the branch line train advantages the ten passengers, who now do not have to wait half an hour for the next train. That is 300 passenger-minutes saved. Cool. Except for the 40 passengers who did not come off the connection, who have lost 200 passenger-minutes (the 5-miniute delay).
But because that branch train is now late, it is late for the crossing loop where it passed the other service on the branch. That train, also containing 50 passengers, is delayed by five minutes. That is 250 passenger minutes cost. But the late arrival of that second service means that ten of those passengers have missed their connection at RochPion Jcn, and have to wait 25 minutes for their next train. Another 250 passenger-minute cost.
Hence, that small delay has saved ten passengers 300 minutes, and cost everyone else on the trains 700 minutes.
Yes, this is a simplified example, but it shows how holding trains can actually cost passengers time, especially if only a few people connect. And ops people do try to hold trains, if they can, but often they cannot. And as we have a much busier network nowadays, holding trains is much harder.
The railways are a network, and network effects are massive.
We are 4c away from the Scottish record at the mo.
High readings from spots on the edge of mountain ranges, like those two, normally arise from the Fohn effect, which can be quite dramatic.
Moist air gets pushed up over the mountains, forcing condensation as rain, while the heat released from the condensation counteracts the normal cooling of air as it rises. You then have a stream of already warm relatively dry air descending into the rain shadow of the mountains, where the warming of air as it sinks (due to rising pressure) combines with direct ground warming from the sunny conditions to create a local warm spot.
It’s quite common north east of the Cairngorms, which despite its latitude can be surprisingly warm.
"He trusted me with the saw - you can trust me with the country."
I imagine Rishi would attempt to put all of the last five in his Cabinet; although you would not move Wallace from Defence and so there might not be room for Tugendhat.
I imagine Javid will return as Chancellor.
If you regard more passengers as a bug, not a feature, your business will tend to end up with less passengers. This is a surprising as murder suicides among Putin's (ex) pals.
https://www.eyeo.se/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/solkurva.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5XyBBZ0z1WJoQiexoUj-WigJGVK46xoAadA&usqp=CAU
https://images.aftonbladet-cdn.se/v2/images/4fe12e48-1115-4664-916f-2c4b0c0d4efa?fit=crop&format=auto&h=950&q=50&w=1900&s=9af90f6ddb86ad9e0c8fbe3151013c8a31f9e752
But I was right that British trains do tend to be more cramped.
I'd also slightly disagree that the consensual view on here that she lost momentum last night is correct necessarily - as I said, The Telegraph seems to differ from what people thought here (and probably closer to @NickPalmer's comments) and I'm weary of using the betting markets as too accurate a guide to momentum given we influence it a lot on here with our comments.
They haven't been suspended for treason.
But for treason in their departments. Slightly different.
Seem not to be aware of economic text-books after about 1820.
It was a huge issue for the private railways as for BR before them. Also in the USA.
The tilting Pendelinos also have narrower profiles for the same reason.
A full week might have been catastrophic.
I'll take that, yes.
Investment takes multiple parliaments, often reducing "immediate jobs" (productivity)*, disruption, costs much more (short term) etc...
Which is why many nationalised industries were run into the ground.
*When I was growing up in the 80s, it was very common for Trade Union officials and Labour MPs to criticise productivity increases as reducing employment. The Lump of Work fallacy seemed quite widespread.
http://igg.org.uk/rail/1-hist/hist-a.htm
The other problem was private owner wagons - four wheel, crap quality to begin with, badly maintained, poorly equipped with brakes (sometimes not at all, other than a stationary handbrake) and lube, and of inconsistent standards. Having to run an assortment in trains when you had no control over them ... they lasted into the 1960s I think?
(Not concerned with the high quality modern ones on bogies for trainload traffic from one place to another, that's different.)
1959 if memory serves.
And in the Colchester area it has hit 35°C!
Lad.
Did the boils relate to the lollies or were the lollies the treatment?
Guardian I think, sorry couldn't refind to embed.
I once saw a thirty-foot steel flat-bed wagon at a steelworks site in Sheffield (circa 1989). They had put something heavy on it, as the buffer beams were angled up towards the sky, and the bottom of the wagon was nearly touching the rails.
COME ON, WEATHER
Could still do it
But if Weather fails I reckon this could be a disaster for Weather in the UK, it will be like cricket in the Windies. Too many failures and near-misses will mean that people will turn away to other things, giving up on Weather, and focusing attention on domestic livestock or walls.
Thirty months of hurt, since 2019, but this may be the last time I invest, emotionally
As you imply, it's as likely a lack of competence in preventing infiltration/subversion in departments which are obvious targets for Russia as it is anything more sinister on their part.
anyway. Apparently though the heating is on somewhere in the building according to the rumour mill!
(Or in any capacity whatsoever...)
Truss/Kemi would be a dream team.
39.8C somewhere around London or Cambs
And now, like any sensible Englishman, I am off to a big beergarden with a mate
Like many things, the rise in passengers over the last 30 years will be multi-factored. I would not for a moment say that the increase in passengers since privatisation is *all* down to privatisation; there are other factors such as the governments' investments. But those who say privatisation had no effect would IMO also be very wrong.
Its interesting that all the usual suspects normally aligned with Gove are backing Rishi, while Gove himself is suddenly backing this almost unheard-of opponent who is splitting votes Truss would have been going for.
Gove is Machiavellian enough I think he's actually backing Badenoch in order to weaken Truss, and he'll be backing Rishi afterwards.