Did they read the standing orders? Did they read and UNDERSTAND them??
Never forget she was in the wrong that night. These things matter...
She made a procedural error. The only reason she was there was because those councillors and that council was a dysfunctional mess.
So she made a mistake under pressure, but if theyd not all been childish fools shed never have been in a position to make a mistake. Mistakes happen if people are under such pressure, its understandable . And abusive behaviour is not the answer when someone is wrong. You lose the moral high ground that way.
I agree with that to a point. She really ought to have been ready for a confrontation. It shouldn't have come as a surprise.
She definitely could have handled it better - even at the time people questioned if she had the power, and a certain level of obnoxious ness must be borne.
Penny Mordaunt says that Britain has lost its sense of self
She compares it to Paul McCartney's set at Glastonbury - 'he was playing new tunes but what we really wanted was the good old stuff'
Didn't Paul play literally loads of old stuff, or did I watch a different performance
Yes – terrible analogy. Not content with having a pop at Dad’s Army, she’s now having a pop at Paul McCartney.
There’s the kernel of a point here. A nation is a nation because of the stories it tells itself about itself and has in common; common cultural reference points, beliefs, and so on. There are fewer and fewer of these. We have less and less in common; both our view of our common history and our view of our common culture*. And so the Glastonbury Festival – which even thirty years ago was still quite a long way from the mainstream – is presented as the centrepiece of the British Summer; but it is headlined by a man playing songs from 60 years ago because that was our last common cultural reference point.
I’m just scratching at this issue; I’m not convinced I’m going at it right and I’m not sure where it leads. There are side issues about education, sport, situation comedy, the BBC, pubs, online and real life interactions. There’s a persuasive point about British society in here somewhere, and reflections about the extent Britain is typical or atypical of the west in the 21st century, but I’m not sure what it is or what to do about it.
I’m not a massive Paul McCartney fan, by the way. I prefer my music less melodic. But I do recognise a) his talent, and b) his cultural importance, and c) that he pitched his set excellently.
*On which point, I urge anyone to visit the Comedy Carpet in Blackpool, which is the best example we have of a common cultural reference point. It’s about half an acre of polished paving into which have been embossed dozens and dozens of punch lines and catch phrases which almost all British people and only British people will understand. “Don’t tell him, Pike – I’m playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order – Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for me.” You don’t have to find any of it funny – though if absolutely none of it raises a smile you are either foreign or dead – but marvel at the fact that you can contextualise almost all of it without having had to try. And rejoice that there is at least something that we still have in common.
And partly that's because the boomers are so numerous, and are insisting on hanging around so long. Imagine George Formby still being the big thing in the 1960s.
The gentle evolution of popular culture that ought to have kept happening has ground to a halt and has become a bit of a tug of war.
The fragmentation of mass media doesn't help. Have we had any universally shared moments this year apart from Paddington and the Queen?
I saw a teenage kid my daughter's age wearing a Beatles t-shirt yesterday, it did make me feel a bit sad. Mind you, my daughter wears my old Deltic Preservation Society sweatshirt, apparently her friends all rave about how vintage it is. It does feel a bit as if the culture is ossifying.
I've made exactly this point for some time. Culturally, 2022 doesn't feel that different from the late 90s. The music and telly and clothes are different, but not so different as the difference between the late 90s and the early 70s.
I would say this is almost solely down to the internet.
When I was young, you may not have liked what was on telly, or in the charts, but hunting out alternatives was pretty hard. You were at least aware of what was going on in the mainstream even if it wasn't your choice. Nowadays - well, I can't remember the last time I watched BBC1; and I am almost totally ignorant of chart music since Radio 6 came along and filled that need. And it is so much easier to seek out whatever niche in the cultural spectrum you might want to inhabit and ignore the rest of it. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean we lose our common reference points.
My kids playlists are far more eclectic than my rather limited singles and albums collections were. They listen to music they like over the last 60-70 years with the odd bit of classical chucked in as well. This is clearly because of the availability of the music from streaming services which gives them access way, way beyond the R1 playlist of my youth. This is a good thing but it must make new material slightly harder to sell profitably. It's just a different world.
+1 - the musical taste of my children ranges from Green Day to really Naff 90s pop to Folk music with various bits in between.
And that has a lot to do with the fact that everything is now instantly available without restriction. Streaming may have destroyed the income of musicians but it does allow people to find new music (continually) for next to nothing.
Yet what they seem to be finding the most, is old music. Witness Kate Bush being #1 a few weeks back, with a 37-year-old song.
Wasn't that because of Stranger Things?
I've not watched Stranger Things, but I did watch the clip that used that song. And my goodness: it is a most effective piece of TV. Quite stunning, in fact. if the whole thing is anything like that then it must be sublime.
(We don't have Netflix...)
NSFW warning, but here it is (and probably loads of spoilers)
I love this scene; the mood, the swapping between her Hell, her past and the other children trying to help her. The music. It's not exactly a novel idea, but it is done so absolutely brilliantly.
Even without knowing the context of Max, the kids, or the evil dude, it works.
Penny Mordaunt says that Britain has lost its sense of self
She compares it to Paul McCartney's set at Glastonbury - 'he was playing new tunes but what we really wanted was the good old stuff'
Didn't Paul play literally loads of old stuff, or did I watch a different performance
Yes – terrible analogy. Not content with having a pop at Dad’s Army, she’s now having a pop at Paul McCartney.
There’s the kernel of a point here. A nation is a nation because of the stories it tells itself about itself and has in common; common cultural reference points, beliefs, and so on. There are fewer and fewer of these. We have less and less in common; both our view of our common history and our view of our common culture*. And so the Glastonbury Festival – which even thirty years ago was still quite a long way from the mainstream – is presented as the centrepiece of the British Summer; but it is headlined by a man playing songs from 60 years ago because that was our last common cultural reference point.
I’m just scratching at this issue; I’m not convinced I’m going at it right and I’m not sure where it leads. There are side issues about education, sport, situation comedy, the BBC, pubs, online and real life interactions. There’s a persuasive point about British society in here somewhere, and reflections about the extent Britain is typical or atypical of the west in the 21st century, but I’m not sure what it is or what to do about it.
I’m not a massive Paul McCartney fan, by the way. I prefer my music less melodic. But I do recognise a) his talent, and b) his cultural importance, and c) that he pitched his set excellently.
*On which point, I urge anyone to visit the Comedy Carpet in Blackpool, which is the best example we have of a common cultural reference point. It’s about half an acre of polished paving into which have been embossed dozens and dozens of punch lines and catch phrases which almost all British people and only British people will understand. “Don’t tell him, Pike – I’m playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order – Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for me.” You don’t have to find any of it funny – though if absolutely none of it raises a smile you are either foreign or dead – but marvel at the fact that you can contextualise almost all of it without having had to try. And rejoice that there is at least something that we still have in common.
And partly that's because the boomers are so numerous, and are insisting on hanging around so long. Imagine George Formby still being the big thing in the 1960s.
The gentle evolution of popular culture that ought to have kept happening has ground to a halt and has become a bit of a tug of war.
The fragmentation of mass media doesn't help. Have we had any universally shared moments this year apart from Paddington and the Queen?
I saw a teenage kid my daughter's age wearing a Beatles t-shirt yesterday, it did make me feel a bit sad. Mind you, my daughter wears my old Deltic Preservation Society sweatshirt, apparently her friends all rave about how vintage it is. It does feel a bit as if the culture is ossifying.
I concur.
Saw a German boy aged about twelve wearing a Rolling Stones t-shirt yesterday. That’s like if I had gone about in the 1980s wearing a Fletcher Henderson Orchestra t-shirt. Simply tragic.
Guess you must have missed Flanders & Swann headlining Glasto in '72.
I went to see the Pixies last week. Where I was (middle aged man in a mosh pit), I was surrounded by people 20 years younger than me. They treated me as something of an amusing oddity. Yet I was only just old enough to be into the Pixies first time around; most of these people must have been born some time after they split up*. I don't begrudge them this, and am happy that the music I love has found a new audience, but I'm slightly bemused by it. (This isn't necessarily the case at other bands from that era I've seen recently: people under 40 were rare at the Wedding Present and nonexistent at Half Man Half Biscuit.)
*yes I know they reformed and have been releasing new albums, but 90% of the set was the pre-1992 era. They know what their audience wants.
I was at Half Man Half Biscuit in Leeds a few weeks ago and there were loads of younger people. To be honest, I was surprised how many.
Of course 85% of the audience was 40-plus overeducated, underpaid beta male centrist dads, just like me (not that I'm a dad, but you get what I mean). But there was a respectable amount of young uns. Some of them were even female. I saw one girl, probably early 20s, happily sporting a hi-vis vest and some - presumably Joy Division - oven gloves.
That was not the impression I got of the audience in Manchester! I have never been part of an audience which was older, fatter, or more disreputable looking.
Not much to conclude from that except that individual views are partial.
Sunak's job is to avoid facing Mordaunt in the final two. This lends some hope, if she can make it through the first round, to Badenoch, who (seems) to be more impressive than Truss.
Penny Mordaunt says that Britain has lost its sense of self
She compares it to Paul McCartney's set at Glastonbury - 'he was playing new tunes but what we really wanted was the good old stuff'
Didn't Paul play literally loads of old stuff, or did I watch a different performance
Yes – terrible analogy. Not content with having a pop at Dad’s Army, she’s now having a pop at Paul McCartney.
There’s the kernel of a point here. A nation is a nation because of the stories it tells itself about itself and has in common; common cultural reference points, beliefs, and so on. There are fewer and fewer of these. We have less and less in common; both our view of our common history and our view of our common culture*. And so the Glastonbury Festival – which even thirty years ago was still quite a long way from the mainstream – is presented as the centrepiece of the British Summer; but it is headlined by a man playing songs from 60 years ago because that was our last common cultural reference point.
I’m just scratching at this issue; I’m not convinced I’m going at it right and I’m not sure where it leads. There are side issues about education, sport, situation comedy, the BBC, pubs, online and real life interactions. There’s a persuasive point about British society in here somewhere, and reflections about the extent Britain is typical or atypical of the west in the 21st century, but I’m not sure what it is or what to do about it.
I’m not a massive Paul McCartney fan, by the way. I prefer my music less melodic. But I do recognise a) his talent, and b) his cultural importance, and c) that he pitched his set excellently.
*On which point, I urge anyone to visit the Comedy Carpet in Blackpool, which is the best example we have of a common cultural reference point. It’s about half an acre of polished paving into which have been embossed dozens and dozens of punch lines and catch phrases which almost all British people and only British people will understand. “Don’t tell him, Pike – I’m playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order – Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for me.” You don’t have to find any of it funny – though if absolutely none of it raises a smile you are either foreign or dead – but marvel at the fact that you can contextualise almost all of it without having had to try. And rejoice that there is at least something that we still have in common.
And partly that's because the boomers are so numerous, and are insisting on hanging around so long. Imagine George Formby still being the big thing in the 1960s.
The gentle evolution of popular culture that ought to have kept happening has ground to a halt and has become a bit of a tug of war.
The fragmentation of mass media doesn't help. Have we had any universally shared moments this year apart from Paddington and the Queen?
I saw a teenage kid my daughter's age wearing a Beatles t-shirt yesterday, it did make me feel a bit sad. Mind you, my daughter wears my old Deltic Preservation Society sweatshirt, apparently her friends all rave about how vintage it is. It does feel a bit as if the culture is ossifying.
'Twas ever thus though, from my teens to early 20s I cosplayed rockers, rockabillies, fey Weimar romantics, 1940s zoot suiters, Waughian fogeys and a bit of cowboy thrown in. A brief period of punk was about the only new thing under the sun.
It is difficult to see how a genuine cultural upheaval like punk could happen now mind, fat John Lydon advertising butter and luvvin Trump & Brexit spoiled it for everyone.
I saw Pearl Jam last weekend and they did a cover of Public Image, I guessed Mr Lydon's recent venture into advertising had passed them by.
They still have the “John Peel” stage at Glastonbury, so I suppose the key is to die at the right time.
I a not a big one for cancel culture etc, but I do find that quite incredible that he seemed to have got a pass for so long and held up as music radio god, given he admitted having sex with under aged girls.
I agree, but I would have thought that a very good proportion of prominent pop and rock artists did the same in the 60s-80s. Not to excuse it, but just to note he probably wasn't that unusual.
Yes, the fact they were willing to talk about it in interviews shows it was “a different time”, at least to some extent.
IF you actually read conhome you can infer quite a bit. A clash between the MPs and the membership may be coming.
The membership do not want a choice between Mordaunt and Sunak. IF that's the choice, then I reckon a vote strike/ultra low turnout is not out of the question.
A boycott might be pushing it, but I would not entirely rule that out, either.
But this is what the membership always get - a choice between the frontrunner who was always likely to come top among the MPs and one other. What's different this time?
Nothing. But some MPs will whip them up about being denied a fair say. Same thing was done (briefly) when some thought Boris might not easily win among MPs.
None. But some MPs will whip them up a out 'denying' the members the chance to vote
Contrary to MISTY’s impressions, Mordaunt is polling very well among party members in the latest polling.
Anyone who doesn't want the tortoise face should back Penny.
Sunak is TOAST on that poll
Rishi’s only hope is getting to the final round with a candidate who then self-combusts through scandal.
Could we possibly see a surprise result in the first round? Rishi underperforming as MPs realise he is unlikely to win the membership, and switching support?
You know you are getting old when you go to a gig and you see say a father and son wearing the album t-shirt which you bought when it came out and neither of those wearing it were alive.
Anyone who doesn't want the tortoise face should back Penny.
Sunak is TOAST on that poll
Rishi’s only hope is getting to the final round with a candidate who then self-combusts through scandal.
Could we possibly see a surprise result in the first round? Rishi underperforming as MPs realise he is unlikely to win the membership, and switching support?
Imagine if Team Rishi managed to engineer a run-off against Braverman, and then he lost.
Anyone who doesn't want the tortoise face should back Penny.
Sunak is TOAST on that poll
Rishi’s only hope is getting to the final round with a candidate who then self-combusts through scandal.
Could we possibly see a surprise result in the first round? Rishi underperforming as MPs realise he is unlikely to win the membership, and switching support?
Not today but it's possible tomorrow as the game becomes clearer
Penny Mordaunt says that Britain has lost its sense of self
She compares it to Paul McCartney's set at Glastonbury - 'he was playing new tunes but what we really wanted was the good old stuff'
Didn't Paul play literally loads of old stuff, or did I watch a different performance
Yes – terrible analogy. Not content with having a pop at Dad’s Army, she’s now having a pop at Paul McCartney.
There’s the kernel of a point here. A nation is a nation because of the stories it tells itself about itself and has in common; common cultural reference points, beliefs, and so on. There are fewer and fewer of these. We have less and less in common; both our view of our common history and our view of our common culture*. And so the Glastonbury Festival – which even thirty years ago was still quite a long way from the mainstream – is presented as the centrepiece of the British Summer; but it is headlined by a man playing songs from 60 years ago because that was our last common cultural reference point.
I’m just scratching at this issue; I’m not convinced I’m going at it right and I’m not sure where it leads. There are side issues about education, sport, situation comedy, the BBC, pubs, online and real life interactions. There’s a persuasive point about British society in here somewhere, and reflections about the extent Britain is typical or atypical of the west in the 21st century, but I’m not sure what it is or what to do about it.
I’m not a massive Paul McCartney fan, by the way. I prefer my music less melodic. But I do recognise a) his talent, and b) his cultural importance, and c) that he pitched his set excellently.
*On which point, I urge anyone to visit the Comedy Carpet in Blackpool, which is the best example we have of a common cultural reference point. It’s about half an acre of polished paving into which have been embossed dozens and dozens of punch lines and catch phrases which almost all British people and only British people will understand. “Don’t tell him, Pike – I’m playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order – Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for me.” You don’t have to find any of it funny – though if absolutely none of it raises a smile you are either foreign or dead – but marvel at the fact that you can contextualise almost all of it without having had to try. And rejoice that there is at least something that we still have in common.
And partly that's because the boomers are so numerous, and are insisting on hanging around so long. Imagine George Formby still being the big thing in the 1960s.
The gentle evolution of popular culture that ought to have kept happening has ground to a halt and has become a bit of a tug of war.
The fragmentation of mass media doesn't help. Have we had any universally shared moments this year apart from Paddington and the Queen?
I saw a teenage kid my daughter's age wearing a Beatles t-shirt yesterday, it did make me feel a bit sad. Mind you, my daughter wears my old Deltic Preservation Society sweatshirt, apparently her friends all rave about how vintage it is. It does feel a bit as if the culture is ossifying.
I concur.
Saw a German boy aged about twelve wearing a Rolling Stones t-shirt yesterday. That’s like if I had gone about in the 1980s wearing a Fletcher Henderson Orchestra t-shirt. Simply tragic.
Guess you must have missed Flanders & Swann headlining Glasto in '72.
I went to see the Pixies last week. Where I was (middle aged man in a mosh pit), I was surrounded by people 20 years younger than me. They treated me as something of an amusing oddity. Yet I was only just old enough to be into the Pixies first time around; most of these people must have been born some time after they split up*. I don't begrudge them this, and am happy that the music I love has found a new audience, but I'm slightly bemused by it. (This isn't necessarily the case at other bands from that era I've seen recently: people under 40 were rare at the Wedding Present and nonexistent at Half Man Half Biscuit.)
*yes I know they reformed and have been releasing new albums, but 90% of the set was the pre-1992 era. They know what their audience wants.
I was at Half Man Half Biscuit in Leeds a few weeks ago and there were loads of younger people. To be honest, I was surprised how many.
Of course 85% of the audience was 40-plus overeducated, underpaid beta male centrist dads, just like me (not that I'm a dad, but you get what I mean). But there was a respectable amount of young uns. Some of them were even female. I saw one girl, probably early 20s, happily sporting a hi-vis vest and some - presumably Joy Division - oven gloves.
That was not the impression I got of the audience in Manchester! I have never been part of an audience which was older, fatter, or more disreputable looking.
Not much to conclude from that except that individual views are partial.
Echo and the Bunnymen - I was surprised how young some of the audience were given that the youngest song played was from circa 1987.
Just transitory......as one of the big advisors to Biden said last year, the west has fixed inflation so we can continue the expansive monetary policy...it seems they meant to say fixed it to be at an eye wateringly high level.
Mr. B, well, until leaving the EU causes the genocide of 20 million people (USSR alone) I think one might just hold a better standing than the other.
Socialism and communism are not really the same thing, though. For example this guy, who I came across recently while reading around Polish and Ukrainian history. An early Polish advocate for Ukrainian independence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliusz_Mieroszewski ...Mieroszewski was not only a dedicated socialist, but was strongly opposed to communism and the Soviet domination of Eastern Europe. A crucial, and at the time unique, consideration of the Kultura programme was the Polish relationship with the national aspirations of the country's former minorities, the Belarusians, Lithuanians and Ukrainians...
Did we ever get word of the MPs who had the whip suspended? Also, will we see Boris Johnson in the voting room? Traditionally, the outgoing leader abstains, but we know quite a bit about Johnson and tradition.
They still have the “John Peel” stage at Glastonbury, so I suppose the key is to die at the right time.
I a not a big one for cancel culture etc, but I do find that quite incredible that he seemed to have got a pass for so long and held up as music radio god, given he admitted having sex with under aged girls, while somebody did a hurty tweet 10 years and straight in the dog house.
Reading around it it seems that all of the evidence for this comes from Peel himself openly admitting it in the past. There also don't appear to have been any formal complaints from the girls involved. I am not saying it makes it right but I wonder of that is the reason for the lack of further action.
Did we ever get word of the MPs who had the whip suspended? Also, will we see Boris Johnson in the voting room? Traditionally, the outgoing leader abstains, but we know quite a bit about Johnson and tradition.
Sometimes frontrunners are frontrunners for a reason. Members would be bloody minded to feel like MPs are trying to force them to vote for the leading candidate.
Labour MP calling for tougher prison sentences for a range of crimes.
Its standard. MPs think that fixes everything.
I did wonder whether Braverman or Patel would pull out the 'bring back hanging' option.
There isn't much that they can do on prison sentences, because they've passed lots of legislation to make them longer and creating lots of new imprisonable offences but now seem to have run out of obvious options. Doing this was a very short sighted policy in my view, it satisfies popular demands but forces future governments to pay the cost (of housing the prisoners).
Sounds a terrible idea. It will end in "picking winners" approaches at the whim of #10.
Plays into Leon's 'let's take a dangerous gamble... what could possibly go wrong' meme.
But I’ve done that all my life - taken a dangerous gamble, “what could possibly go wrong” - and here I am on the shores of Kotor Bay
Yes but there is a bit of survivor bias here. There are probably lots of people who have taken that approach. But we only get to hear from those for whom the gamble pays off. If it hadn't paid off for you we probably wouldn't be hearing you advocate the approach. What we need to do to evaluate this is find 20 or so 20-something high risk takers and see where they get to 30 years later.
I'm very surprised by Mordaunt's low score on that poll. I'd have thought she would have been the most popular with the public. But I suspect there is a strong name recognition effect.
Anyone who doesn't want the tortoise face should back Penny.
Sunak is TOAST on that poll
His strategy is to get so many votes with MPs that party members feel pressurised to support him even though they don't really want to vote for him.
The interesting thing is, I think that could have worked of it had gone to the membership in 2016, but I’m not sure the same would hold true now.
The membership just aren’t keen on Rishi. I don’t think they want him as PM. Given the current state of the Tory Party I don’t suspect they’d be willing to make a trade off for party unity - members are much more likely to vote for their favourite candidate, this leadership election is a roll of the dice as to whether they can save a majority in 2024 anyway - might as well go for your favourite.
Did we ever get word of the MPs who had the whip suspended? Also, will we see Boris Johnson in the voting room? Traditionally, the outgoing leader abstains, but we know quite a bit about Johnson and tradition.
I don't think that is tradition for them not to vote, just not to endorse. May voted in the 2019 leadership election as turnout amongst MPs was 100%.
Did we ever get word of the MPs who had the whip suspended? Also, will we see Boris Johnson in the voting room? Traditionally, the outgoing leader abstains, but we know quite a bit about Johnson and tradition.
I don't think that is tradition for them not to vote, just not to endorse. May voted in the 2019 leadership election as turnout amongst MPs was 100%.
Did she? I thought both Cameron and May abstained. I stand corrected if so.
As someone was saying above, the comments on ToryHome are largely anti-Penny, which is odd.
That all said, other commentators on the site have been making the point that much of the Tory membership is legacy-Cameron, and leans left of Tory voters overall (many rightwingers are Ukip members, not Tory members).
Hence why Penny polls so well with the membership perhaps? They are more liberal than one might think?
You know you are getting old when you go to a gig and you see say a father and son wearing the album t-shirt which you bought when it came out and neither of those wearing it were alive.
Cool kid in Totnes was wearing a RUN-DMC T. Me wearing my country gardening gear, looking about 1,000. I asked him if he had seen them live. "Nah mate."
"They were brilliant. Beastie Boys were the support...."
Sounds a terrible idea. It will end in "picking winners" approaches at the whim of #10.
Plays into Leon's 'let's take a dangerous gamble... what could possibly go wrong' meme.
But I’ve done that all my life - taken a dangerous gamble, “what could possibly go wrong” - and here I am on the shores of Kotor Bay
Yes but there is a bit of survivor bias here. There are probably lots of people who have taken that approach. But we only get to hear from those for whom the gamble pays off. If it hadn't paid off for you we probably wouldn't be hearing you advocate the approach. What we need to do to evaluate this is find 20 or so 20-something high risk takers and see where they get to 30 years later.
There is also more than likely the counterfactual, those that did take risks and succeeded, many probably would have even if they hadn't (albeit happened slower).
I was listening to an interviewing interview the other day about successful entrepreneurs. There is this myth that most are young, taken huge risks, perhaps dropped out of college (or didn't go), all because we think of tech people like Gates or Zuckerberg. When in reality the data show most started their businesses in their 40s after working in a industry for 15-20 years, then because of all the experience and connections they have gained, can see an opportunity which they are able to take action on (and get backing for it).
Sometimes frontrunners are frontrunners for a reason. Members would be bloody minded to feel like MPs are trying to force them to vote for the leading candidate.
And sometimes they aren't. This contest pits unproven and semi-proven candidates over a candidate (Sunak) who has proven himself inadequate.
It's just dawned on me that Kemi Badenoch is, I suspect, influenced by Munira Mirza, who may well be supporting her in the background.
Mirza was, for those who don't recall, Boris's Head of Policy until her resignation in February, and an ex-member of the Revolutionary Communist Party. Her and Badenoch seem to have a lot in common.
You know you are getting old when you go to a gig and you see say a father and son wearing the album t-shirt which you bought when it came out and neither of those wearing it were alive.
Cool kid in Totnes was wearing a RUN-DMC T. Me wearing my country gardening gear, looking about 1,000. I asked him if he had seen them live. "Nah mate."
"They were brilliant. Beastie Boys were the support...."
His face was a picture.....
You should have said fighting for your right to party before you were born....
I know there's insider trading, but I can't see how anyone has the knowledge to propel Mordaunt to less than evens in a few hours. There must a factor we don't know about (a big endorsement/withdrawal?) but even then it looks far too short.
I know there's insider trading, but I can't see how anyone has the knowledge to propel Mordaunt to less than evens in a few hours. There must a factor we don't know about (a big endorsement/withdrawal?) but even then it looks far too short.
Sometimes frontrunners are frontrunners for a reason. Members would be bloody minded to feel like MPs are trying to force them to vote for the leading candidate.
And sometimes they aren't. This contest pits unproven and semi-proven candidates over a candidate (Sunak) who has proven himself inadequate.
Inadequate but still better than the other candidates given their love of the magic money tree and strange choice of tax cuts.
I know there's insider trading, but I can't see how anyone has the knowledge to propel Mordaunt to less than evens in a few hours. There must a factor we don't know about (a big endorsement/withdrawal?) but even then it looks far too short.
The other time you know you are getting old is when some youngster says I love such and such new song, its a cover of some old song by x....and you have to tell them that was itself a cover of....
Sunak was/is the frontrunner on the basis that he has been groomed for the Tory leadership ever since he became CoE. Oh how the Tory MPs swooned when their new, young, telegenic Blair clone arrived on the scene and hit new heights of popularity with the public during the pandemic.
It has been an unspoken rule that should Boris have fallen under a bus (a bendy bus?), Rishi is the man to steady the ship.
There is still a hangover with the MPs it seems longing after those glory days when he was the annointed successor, but it ignores the economic troubles the country faces, the revelations about his wife’s tax affairs earlier this year and the FPN. Why also did he back Boris so long? These are all serious wounds and Labour have the attack lines ready.
I know there's insider trading, but I can't see how anyone has the knowledge to propel Mordaunt to less than evens in a few hours. There must a factor we don't know about (a big endorsement/withdrawal?) but even then it looks far too short.
Surely its the response to the opinion poll? It shows Mordaunt beating Sunak by 67% to 28%
Something has happened besides Penny Mordaunt's launch and the new poll. Is a Mordaunt fan trying to rig the market or has Rishi come out for sending small boys up chimneys?
I know there's insider trading, but I can't see how anyone has the knowledge to propel Mordaunt to less than evens in a few hours. There must a factor we don't know about (a big endorsement/withdrawal?) but even then it looks far too short.
I wonder if Sunak knows he can't win he pulls in behind Mordaunt to scupper Truss.
The other time you know you are getting old is when some youngster says I love such and such new song, its a cover of some old song by x....and you have to tell them that was itself a cover of....
So true. That does work on us too though, I spent two decades thinking Always On My Mind was by the Pet Shop Boys.
I'm very surprised by Mordaunt's low score on that poll. I'd have thought she would have been the most popular with the public. But I suspect there is a strong name recognition effect.
Yep, and it diminishes Sunak further because of it.
Sometimes frontrunners are frontrunners for a reason. Members would be bloody minded to feel like MPs are trying to force them to vote for the leading candidate.
And sometimes they aren't. This contest pits unproven and semi-proven candidates over a candidate (Sunak) who has proven himself inadequate.
Oh I'm not saying they should definitely go for Sunak. But there seems a bit of a 'anyone but the favourite' reaction, as if anyone who tops the MP ballot would not be acceptable for that reason alone
He looks a lightweight to me, I can see why pretty much any other person in final two probably beats him.
Just sold a bit of Sunak and bought a bit of Truss. Still green on both, but Truss looks reasonable value to me while Sunak a bit short, perhaps.
Edit: Also, I want some more winnings to soften the blow if we do end up with Truss as PM!
And now sold some Mordaunt to buy a bit of Rishi back at longer odds. May well be a bit of a move back after the voting results tonight (if so, I'll likely switch again). Still all green.
I know there's insider trading, but I can't see how anyone has the knowledge to propel Mordaunt to less than evens in a few hours. There must a factor we don't know about (a big endorsement/withdrawal?) but even then it looks far too short.
I wonder if Sunak knows he can't win he pulls in behind Mordaunt to scupper Truss.
If Sunak loses I am not convinced we will see him returning to government.
Sounds a terrible idea. It will end in "picking winners" approaches at the whim of #10.
Plays into Leon's 'let's take a dangerous gamble... what could possibly go wrong' meme.
But I’ve done that all my life - taken a dangerous gamble, “what could possibly go wrong” - and here I am on the shores of Kotor Bay
Yes but there is a bit of survivor bias here. There are probably lots of people who have taken that approach. But we only get to hear from those for whom the gamble pays off. If it hadn't paid off for you we probably wouldn't be hearing you advocate the approach. What we need to do to evaluate this is find 20 or so 20-something high risk takers and see where they get to 30 years later.
Yes
For various reasons I've been looking back at my life recently
There are at least 5 occasions when I should have died. And I mean, really definitely odds against me surviving
A couple can give me a cold sweat even now
And also multiple occasions when I took dramatic if not foolish risks, where, if it had gone wrong, I would now be in a much worse place
But of course there is a selection bias here. Perhaps if I hadn't taken some of these risks, life would have turned out better?
Something has happened besides Penny Mordaunt's launch and the new poll. Is a Mordaunt fan trying to rig the market or has Rishi come out for sending small boys up chimneys?
ETA I see Nick Palmer has also raised an eyebrow.
Watching the betting and seeing Rishi come in a point and go out a point and come in a point and rinse and repeat. It does not look natural.
I'm very surprised by Mordaunt's low score on that poll. I'd have thought she would have been the most popular with the public. But I suspect there is a strong name recognition effect.
Yep, and it diminishes Sunak further because of it.
Diminish Rishi much more and you're going to be needing an electron microscope....
If Sunak is going to win this, he needs to win big today, I would suggest at least 40% of the votes. He needs to look the inevitable choice so that he picks up endorsements of those eliminated. If he just wins I think he will be overtaken, possibly twice, eliminating him. Even more so if he doesn't top the poll of course. Any talk of him lending out votes to anyone else is utter foolishness, he needs every single one he can get.
Nadhim Zahawi is using NZ4PM as his leadership election tag. If you click on http://NZ4PM.com you are redirected to Penny Mordaunt’s leadership home page. Comedy gold. You gotta love this contest
If it was a duplicate of the post below, it really wasn't. Besides which she is a rabid right- winger.
This may come as a dreadful surprise, but I have a distinct tolerance for "rabid right wingers", especially if they are only "rabidly right wing" by the warped standards of the deviant Woke Left
Comments
There's a reason Keir Starmer is attacking me at #PMQs today.
It's because he knows we're the only team that can beat Labour 👇
https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1547177911236558848?s=20&t=8twPNOmPc6YmLHMiGZTiIw
I love this scene; the mood, the swapping between her Hell, her past and the other children trying to help her. The music. It's not exactly a novel idea, but it is done so absolutely brilliantly.
Even without knowing the context of Max, the kids, or the evil dude, it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV0RAcuG2Ao
Not much to conclude from that except that individual views are partial.
Being in government made his flaws much more impactful.
Could we possibly see a surprise result in the first round? Rishi underperforming as MPs realise he is unlikely to win the membership, and switching support?
Highest in 40 years.
There’s got to be a non-insignificant chance we could see Penny v Liz or Penny v Kemi.
For example this guy, who I came across recently while reading around Polish and Ukrainian history. An early Polish advocate for Ukrainian independence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliusz_Mieroszewski
...Mieroszewski was not only a dedicated socialist, but was strongly opposed to communism and the Soviet domination of Eastern Europe. A crucial, and at the time unique, consideration of the Kultura programme was the Polish relationship with the national aspirations of the country's former minorities, the Belarusians, Lithuanians and Ukrainians...
Did we ever get word of the MPs who had the whip suspended? Also, will we see Boris Johnson in the voting room? Traditionally, the outgoing leader abstains, but we know quite a bit about Johnson and tradition.
There isn't much that they can do on prison sentences, because they've passed lots of legislation to make them longer and creating lots of new imprisonable offences but now seem to have run out of obvious options. Doing this was a very short sighted policy in my view, it satisfies popular demands but forces future governments to pay the cost (of housing the prisoners).
There are probably lots of people who have taken that approach. But we only get to hear from those for whom the gamble pays off. If it hadn't paid off for you we probably wouldn't be hearing you advocate the approach.
What we need to do to evaluate this is find 20 or so 20-something high risk takers and see where they get to 30 years later.
The membership just aren’t keen on Rishi. I don’t think they want him as PM. Given the current state of the Tory Party I don’t suspect they’d be willing to make a trade off for party unity - members are much more likely to vote for their favourite candidate, this leadership election is a roll of the dice as to whether they can save a majority in 2024 anyway - might as well go for your favourite.
Make Final 2 - Conservative Leader Contest
Win
1/5 Rishi Sunak
1/3 Penny Mordaunt
7/4 Liz Truss
7/1 Tom Tugendhat
8/1 Kemi Badenoch
14/1 Jeremy Hunt
25/1 Suella Braverman
33/1 Zahawi
https://www.betfair.com/sport/politics
1.95 Penny Mordaunt 51%
4.6 Rishi Sunak 21%
4.7 Liz Truss 21%
20 Kemi Badenoch 5%
36 Tom Tugendhat
140 Jeremy Hunt
150 Dominic Raab
200 Suella Braverman
250 Nadhim Zahawi
That all said, other commentators on the site have been making the point that much of the Tory membership is legacy-Cameron, and leans left of Tory voters overall (many rightwingers are Ukip members, not Tory members).
Hence why Penny polls so well with the membership perhaps? They are more liberal than one might think?
Just that as a national strategy, it leaves something to be desired.
Put her in charge of a department first, and see how that turns out.
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.160663234
"They were brilliant. Beastie Boys were the support...."
His face was a picture.....
Why would it take 8 times as long, for half as many MPs?
Badenoch and Mourdaunt had the best received launch events.
I was listening to an interviewing interview the other day about successful entrepreneurs. There is this myth that most are young, taken huge risks, perhaps dropped out of college (or didn't go), all because we think of tech people like Gates or Zuckerberg. When in reality the data show most started their businesses in their 40s after working in a industry for 15-20 years, then because of all the experience and connections they have gained, can see an opportunity which they are able to take action on (and get backing for it).
Mirza was, for those who don't recall, Boris's Head of Policy until her resignation in February, and an ex-member of the Revolutionary Communist Party. Her and Badenoch seem to have a lot in common.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munira_Mirza
If they are they won’t get paid over the summer
Expensive heckle that
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1547201384935817219
The leadership vote uses bits of paper, and requires holding a pen or pencil the right way round and reading the names of the candidates.
https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1547192886571278336
It has been an unspoken rule that should Boris have fallen under a bus (a bendy bus?), Rishi is the man to steady the ship.
There is still a hangover with the MPs it seems longing after those glory days when he was the annointed successor, but it ignores the economic troubles the country faces, the revelations about his wife’s tax affairs earlier this year and the FPN. Why also did he back Boris so long? These are all serious wounds and Labour have the attack lines ready.
He will not win this election.
https://news.sky.com/story/tory-leadership-race-live-updates-first-leadership-ballot-takes-place-today-amid-row-over-dirty-tricks-12593360?postid=4157881#liveblog-body
ETA I see Nick Palmer has also raised an eyebrow.
He looks a lightweight to me, I can see why pretty much any other person in final two probably beats him.
There may be polling on that, but MPs dont seem persuaded anyone is standout on that point.
ArianeSpace are launching their newly updated Vega-C rocket for the first time. The stream should start in ten minutes.
Watch here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgxx3A2FIQ8
For various reasons I've been looking back at my life recently
There are at least 5 occasions when I should have died. And I mean, really definitely odds against me surviving
A couple can give me a cold sweat even now
And also multiple occasions when I took dramatic if not foolish risks, where, if it had gone wrong, I would now be in a much worse place
But of course there is a selection bias here. Perhaps if I hadn't taken some of these risks, life would have turned out better?
Chishti throws the considerable weight of his leadership campaign behind Tugendhat
We don't have to stick in the C18 just because of Mr R-M any more.