Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks
Do they? I'm sure the Junior Minister for Administrative Affairs is convinced that government would fall apart without them, but my suspicion is that government generally can quite happily keep on rolling along, powered by the civil service for weeks or even months without anything serious going wrong. Our system has comparatively few political appointees and pretty much everybody doing the actual work is still in post.
There will be a level of juniors needed. I think a lot of the executive remain during a GE campaign, even if they are no longer MPs, so I'd expect there to be a fairly established view of the level of executive cover needed during session and in holiday season.
It may not be the full bloated 170 payroll of before, but I think lack of junior cover has hit parliamentary business already.
If Johnson was a Putin stooge, then Putin got a very, very poor deal out of it. If he did, then it was a failed gamble; money wasted.
It doesn't mean he didn't try, though ...
Brexit; increased strain on the union, with both Scotland and Northern Ireland looking a bit dicey; continued army cuts; Lebedev; continued selling off of British defence and technology companies.
Would one of those who thinks Putin secretly loves Johnson, and is only pretending to hate him, please explain how Putin convinced Zelensky to go along with the pretence by claiming to love Johnson?
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
Say what?
I'll second that. He's obviously bothered about NATO being a huge military bloc facing Russia, but how on God's green earth does Scottish independence remotely worry him ?
GIUK gap.
A non-nuclear independent Scotland replacing the UK as being responsible for the GIUK gap would be great news for Putin.
I just read this from Mordaunt ( I love it!): In June 2020, in response to vandalism of war memorials, Mordaunt stated: "I would like to suggest that for some found guilty of vandalising such memorials they might benefit from some time spent with our service personnel – perhaps at a battle camp. That might give them a new appreciation of just what these people go through for their sakes."
Trouble is that the Forces would hate that; conscription of the unwilling is something they were very glad to do without back in the 1960s. And treating them as short-term borstal wardens won't improve matters. So I don't think much of her for saying that. It [edit] bespeaks either an ignorance or a deliberate mendacity, to pander to her red meat-craving audience.
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame" President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
You are so in denial. Of course he wanted Brexit. You are one of his little helpers and you know it. You are also an apologist for Johnson, the worst PM in our otherwise glorious history, and his election also pleased Vlad.
Try as you might "Barty" you cannot spoil my day. I am so delighted that the twat that you with your so so so poor judgement thought was good (you were fawning over him for years) is out of office. I know very well that you are disappointed and I am laughing at you and all his other apologists.
He was/is shit and totally unfit for office. Only someone who still believes in the fantasy world of Brexit and the "benefits" (guffaw) thereof would ever been gullible enough to think that that fat incompetent oaf was suitable to be PM.
Now excuse me, as unlike you, I have work to do. Have a thoroughly miserable day, and don't cry too much about the humiliating defenestration of your idol.
Chris Bryant @RhonddaBryant I have checked the FCDO published transparency records for ministers’ meetings. Johnson did NOT register the meeting with Alexander Lebedev. He cannot have notified his officials. 11:30 AM · Jul 7, 2022
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
While that's undeniably true, his essential flaw would get him in the end - he does not tell the truth, and he lacks the capacity to do detail. I think you can get away with lying to some extent, if you keep on top of the lies you have told, but not both.
And morally - someone who lies as easily as he does should not be running a whelk stall, let alone the country.
Nah, think he would make an excellent whelk stall manager. Cheery bluster on a sunny afternoon would be great for sales.
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
Say what?
I'll second that. He's obviously bothered about NATO being a huge military bloc facing Russia, but how on God's green earth does Scottish independence remotely worry him ?
In terms of confidence in Boris for the next few weeks, I'd expect Conservative MPs to be making their views known to the 1922 if they want a replacement now, and if soundings are that Boris is not welcome, the act of getting a caretaker in place would be via that internal process rather than riding on the back of a parliamentary VONC.
I suspect given staying on until successor is the standard, there will be grumblings but ultimately it will be a dog that didn't bark.
But, if not, the 22 need to manage Boris activating his crash pad plan, lining Raab or whoever up and doing the internal coordination of the process
Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks, and those who resigned have now got what they wanted. With some banging together of heads, the 22 should suggest, both to Boris/caretaker and to the resignees, that it is time to get many of the junior ministers back into post.
The machinery of government has shown itself very aware in the past of the need for the continuity of government. Surely then they are talking to Raaaaab to ascertain if he understands that he may be Prime Minister very quickly should the '22 move to remove Johnson now.
This is all about consent. Johnson has ceased to be leader of the Conservative Party. He remains in place only by the consent of the party. They can withdraw it.
Would one of those who thinks Putin secretly loves Johnson, and is only pretending to hate him, please explain how Putin convinced Zelensky to go along with the pretence by claiming to love Johnson?
The Invasion gave Boris a useful distraction from his domestic troubles over the last six months.
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
I don't pretend to know what Putin actually believes, but the position seems to be that no matter what is said or done Boris is unable to prove he is not one?
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
Say what?
I'll second that. He's obviously bothered about NATO being a huge military bloc facing Russia, but how on God's green earth does Scottish independence remotely worry him ?
It doesn't, Russia expanding into the old USSR states like Ukraine again while the West falls apart is ideal for him. See also why Russia and China like Western Woke divisions
Chris Bryant @RhonddaBryant I have checked the FCDO published transparency records for ministers’ meetings. Johnson did NOT register the meeting with Alexander Lebedev. He cannot have notified his officials. 11:30 AM · Jul 7, 2022
Doesn't stink at all
definitely no Johnson pension sitting in an offshore bank account, either. But I do hope the next Labour PM sets up a whole new police department with unlimited funding, just to put any such suspicion to rest.
If Johnson was a Putin stooge, then Putin got a very, very poor deal out of it. If he did, then it was a failed gamble; money wasted.
It doesn't mean he didn't try, though ...
Brexit; increased strain on the union, with both Scotland and Northern Ireland looking a bit dicey; continued army cuts; Lebedev; continued selling off of British defence and technology companies.
Aside from Brexit and the odd inclusion of Lebedev, those are just continuation of long-term trends.
The counter argument is much more persuasive: continued sanctions on Russia after Salisbury, continuation of the training scheme for Ukrainian troops; the way Johnson led the world (yes, really) in helping Ukraine at the start of this mess.
It would have been really easy for Johnson to have stopped or reduced the training scheme, called for the loosening of sanctions ("for peace"), not provided Ukraine with NLAWS, and not been as strident against Russia back in February.
That's where the argument for Johnson being a Putin stooge really falls down. His major actions were the opposite, and hurt Russia.
Nicola Sturgeon does sound quite fed up. If she's no longer interested, it's probably a bad sign.
Broken.
By.
Boris.
I had to check the date of that (though obvs 2019 at earliest) given how often PB Tories have written off the SNP and its leaders. Feb 2020.
About the time he made one of his very, very, very few trips to Scotland and even fewer when he actually had the courtesy to call in on her. Such body language on his part on the steps of Bute House.
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
Say what?
I'll second that. He's obviously bothered about NATO being a huge military bloc facing Russia, but how on God's green earth does Scottish independence remotely worry him ?
GIUK gap.
A non-nuclear independent Scotland replacing the UK as being responsible for the GIUK gap would be great news for Putin.
They are worried about the migratory route for the Northern Wheatear?
Oh you mean the strategic significance. Do you think that Scotland, which has said it wants to join the EU and is a happy (according to polls of the SNP) in NATO would somehow give Putin a free ride?
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?
What's yours? Do you think he was picking up instructions from his handler?
I don't know , you tell us. It would be nice to know what he was up to but one thing is certain I won't be believing a word of Johnson's explanation if he is ever forced into supplying one.
[snip!] Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks, and those who resigned have now got what they wanted. With some banging together of heads, the 22 should suggest, both to Boris/caretaker and to the resignees, that it is time to get many of the junior ministers back into post.
Are they supposed to un-resign?
They've got what they wanted - 22 to ask people to make themselves available for re-appointment and for Boris to damn well re-appoint them.
If that cannot be done, it will be one strong indicator that a caretaker is needed.
Procedurally, it would not be un-resigning as they are already gone, it's not like they were giving notice.
But they are all supposed to troop back in to the office and work for a man they stuck the political knife into less than 24 hours ago?
It is, with hindsight, absolutely amazing that Johnson spent several million on a suite intended to host DAILY press briefings.
Virtually every day would have been lines from the PM that immediately unravelled in the face of the most basic fact-checking.
Very much plays into the arrogance point - how on earth did he would get away with it? (I mean ultimately he didn't, but daily press briefings would have accentuated the problem to say the very least).
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
I don't pretend to know what Putin actually believes, but the position seems to be that no matter what is said or done Boris is unable to prove he is not one?
Well that's what happens with serial unashamed liars - people can say and think what they like of them and it can't be rebutted.
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?
What's yours? Do you think he was picking up instructions from his handler?
Oh come on now @williamglenn, you can think of a better conspiracy theory.
How about Johnson encouraged Putin (via Lebedev) to invade Ukraine so he (Johnson) could become a popular war leader. Putin's reaction to Johnson's departure is because he feels tricked by him.
It is, with hindsight, absolutely amazing that Johnson spent several million on a suite intended to host DAILY press briefings.
Virtually every day would have been lines from the PM that immediately unravelled in the face of the most basic fact-checking.
Very much plays into the arrogance point - how on earth did he would get away with it? (I mean ultimately he didn't, but daily press briefings would have accentuated the problem to say the very least).
All true, but it will be interesting to see if any future PM tries it.
And if they do, and it works, it might act as a break on future BoZos
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
Say what?
I'll second that. He's obviously bothered about NATO being a huge military bloc facing Russia, but how on God's green earth does Scottish independence remotely worry him ?
GIUK gap.
A non-nuclear independent Scotland replacing the UK as being responsible for the GIUK gap would be great news for Putin.
They are worried about the migratory route for the Northern Wheatear?
Oh you mean the strategic significance. Do you think that Scotland, which has said it wants to join the EU and is a happy (according to polls of the SNP) in NATO would somehow give Putin a free ride?
I think the Royal Navy has been able to control access between Europe and the Atlantic, thanks to control over the GIUK gap and Gibraltar, for centuries.
I think strategically even if an indy Scotland joined NATO an indy Scotland Navy isn't going to be anything like the Royal Navy. And if the divorce isn't amicable ...
Strategically Russia gains nothing from Brexit other than the BS of "we are divided", but the division came from Remainders not accepting they'd lost the vote. And democracies are always divided on something or other.
Strategically Russia gains a lot from Scottish independence. The Royal Navy loses the GIUK Gap, loses Faslane, need I go on?
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
No. Not in the way YOU mean. Not a question of taking orders, but of moving along parallel lines, mutual aid, and all that.
Like Hitler and Mussolini. The former took the later for his role model, but certain neither was the puppet of the other.
World is not as simplistic as you would like it to be, for ideological purposes.
Vlad the Mad, BJx2, 45, Orban, Modi, Bolasano = League of Their Own
No doubt in the 1930s you'd have been calling Stanley Baldwin a fascist too.
Good grief.
Show me ONE example of Stanley Baldwin acting in the accustomed style & manner of Adolf Hitler.
Whereas it is NOT difficult to find Boris Johnson acting in style and manner Mad Vlad. Curbed, of course, by the British Constitution - or what's left of it. As with 45 in USA.
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?
What's yours? Do you think he was picking up instructions from his handler?
I don't know , you tell us. It would be nice to know what he was up to but one thing is certain I won't be believing a word of Johnson's explanation if he is ever forced into supplying one.
He held multiple meetings. As both Foreign Secretary and Prime Minister. Out of sight and off-record of officials. With his friend the former KGB man. Whose son owns major newspapers. The same son who was ennobled by BlowJo as Lord KGB of Siberia despite the security services say "Christ don't do that!!!". All linked into Putin whose various former friends and associates money still flows into the Conservative Party in large quantities.
I agree with @williamglenn - nothing to see here. Move along.
Brexit was helpful in the round to Russia, but the delusion that ol' Vlad had a direct hand in it are the stuff of fantasy.
I'm not arguing that he had a direct hand; just that a few quid chucked at various people and groups could have made the internal arguments more fierce. And if aimed at small groups it would be virtually untraceable. Small groups or people who make a lot of noise in the media.
It's a very cheap way of causing division amongst your enemy.
Hey, for all you know I might be receiving the Russian rouble...
I note with amusement that all those who criticised anyone who supported Boris as doing the Kremlin’s bidding now have to accept that getting rid of him is what the Kremlin wanted.
Keep the non sequiturs coming
That’s my point. I’m taking the opportunity to make a silly point which is no more silly than all the people who told me that voting for Brexit meant I was doing Putin’s bidding.
If Johnson was a Putin stooge, then Putin got a very, very poor deal out of it. If he did, then it was a failed gamble; money wasted.
It doesn't mean he didn't try, though ...
Brexit; increased strain on the union, with both Scotland and Northern Ireland looking a bit dicey; continued army cuts; Lebedev; continued selling off of British defence and technology companies.
Aside from Brexit and the odd inclusion of Lebedev, those are just continuation of long-term trends.
The counter argument is much more persuasive: continued sanctions on Russia after Salisbury, continuation of the training scheme for Ukrainian troops; the way Johnson led the world (yes, really) in helping Ukraine at the start of this mess.
It would have been really easy for Johnson to have stopped or reduced the training scheme, called for the loosening of sanctions ("for peace"), not provided Ukraine with NLAWS, and not been as strident against Russia back in February.
That's where the argument for Johnson being a Putin stooge really falls down. His major actions were the opposite, and hurt Russia.
I think "stooge" might be a straw man, though keep an eye on whether Starmer runs with Lebedev that was getting Labour excited in the Commons this morning, but we do know Boris has done things which suited Russia, so perhaps a Leninist useful idiot is the other end of the scale. We also know Russia does interfere with foreign politics; that the KGB attempted to recruit David Cameron; that Russians continue to fund the Conservative Party. But it is probably a step too far to claim Boris follows daily orders from the Kremlin.
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?
What's yours? Do you think he was picking up instructions from his handler?
Oh come on now @williamglenn, you can think of a better conspiracy theory.
How about Johnson encouraged Putin (via Lebedev) to invade Ukraine so he (Johnson) could become a popular war leader. Putin's reaction to Johnson's departure is because he feels tricked by him.
BTW, when is the last time that the Tribune of Ukrainian Freedom raised the topic in public?
Perhaps he's lost interest? Or internal polling showed it was no longer persuading Brits to back Big Dog in order to defend & support Ukraine?
This is not good very bad for the October price cap. Over £3k/typical now nailed on, I recon.
When you read stuff like this, you begin to wonder if soon the Tory party will soon look back on the Boris era as the good old days when things were easy.
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
Say what?
I'll second that. He's obviously bothered about NATO being a huge military bloc facing Russia, but how on God's green earth does Scottish independence remotely worry him ?
GIUK gap.
A non-nuclear independent Scotland replacing the UK as being responsible for the GIUK gap would be great news for Putin.
They are worried about the migratory route for the Northern Wheatear?
Oh you mean the strategic significance. Do you think that Scotland, which has said it wants to join the EU and is a happy (according to polls of the SNP) in NATO would somehow give Putin a free ride?
I think the Royal Navy has been able to control access between Europe and the Atlantic, thanks to control over the GIUK gap and Gibraltar, for centuries.
I think strategically even if an indy Scotland joined NATO an indy Scotland Navy isn't going to be anything like the Royal Navy. And if the divorce isn't amicable ...
Strategically Russia gains nothing from Brexit other than the BS of "we are divided", but the division came from Remainders not accepting they'd lost the vote. And democracies are always divided on something or other.
Strategically Russia gains a lot from Scottish independence. The Royal Navy loses the GIUK Gap, loses Faslane, need I go on?
If Johnson was a Putin stooge, then Putin got a very, very poor deal out of it. If he did, then it was a failed gamble; money wasted.
It doesn't mean he didn't try, though ...
Brexit; increased strain on the union, with both Scotland and Northern Ireland looking a bit dicey; continued army cuts; Lebedev; continued selling off of British defence and technology companies.
Aside from Brexit and the odd inclusion of Lebedev, those are just continuation of long-term trends.
The counter argument is much more persuasive: continued sanctions on Russia after Salisbury, continuation of the training scheme for Ukrainian troops; the way Johnson led the world (yes, really) in helping Ukraine at the start of this mess.
It would have been really easy for Johnson to have stopped or reduced the training scheme, called for the loosening of sanctions ("for peace"), not provided Ukraine with NLAWS, and not been as strident against Russia back in February.
That's where the argument for Johnson being a Putin stooge really falls down. His major actions were the opposite, and hurt Russia.
The truth is, just as Vlad's apparatus loves to play both sides of an argument, so did Boris with influence. So he certainly courted opaque oligarchic money in a more opaque and industrial fashion and traded influence to people who batted both for and against Putin. And I'm guessing looked for cakeist ways to continue that even in the last few months.
But on the policy, I have no reservations that his policy responses to Salisbury, Ukraine and the like, were unambiguously anti-Kremlin and there is little sign of double play in his key actions.
Tom Tughenhadt seems to be getting support … effective operation?
Will be a very interesting candidate. Politically savvier than Rory was, might squeak into the top 2 and then do a Cameron.
I work on the basis that Hunt doesn’t think he has a realistic shot at winning and Wallace doesn’t want it. You can imagine his pal Wallace lining up next to Tugenhardt as continuity Defence, thereby completely monopolising the national security vote. They need to balance the ticket on economic competence and Brexit somehow. Hunt brings the former but not the latter. Dare I say, Hunt as Chancellor and Gove in Hunt’s old job at the Foreign Office? All you need then is another credible Brexit person at Home and you sweep the board.
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?
What's yours? Do you think he was picking up instructions from his handler?
You jest. Now try coming up with a non-comedy explanation.
He likes socialising with the rich and connected. It's certainly no more suspicious than George Osborne being hosted on Deripaska's yacht.
Georgie is also a big mate with Lebedev. I mean he was made editor of one of his newspapers with zero previous experience, who then became very anti-Boris.
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame" President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.
That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
He would have backed Brexiteers during the Referendum, and the FBPE (or whatever they're called) after it.
Bad news for Jeremy Hunt. Damian Green is the sort of MP who might have supported him.
Green was Hancock's proposer in the 2019 leadership election.
So, yes, he might have supported Hunt but by absolutely no means a banker for him (and he's not that brilliant a judge).
This will take a while to shake down. There could be several rounds with minor candidates showing a level of support as part of making the case for a cabinet role in future, before the serious business of choosing the final three from among the big boys and girls gets underway.
This is a prediction that no doubt will come back to haunt me, but colour me sceptical about candidates (like Tugendhat) who've not held a major cabinet job at some point. The Conservative Party is selecting a PM, not a leader in opposition, and these characters look like they are jockeying for cabinet position rather than the top job.
All candidates need to make it clear that the Ukraine policy will be continued.
Ukraine is fortunately/unfortunately in the position of being his current devotion and having not yet been let down by him.
So long as the weapons and training keep coming, the Ukranians will be happy.
I think that this will be another nail in Johnson's self image. Those who come after will be equally lauded by Zelensky when they continue to do the same thing.
Not that it wasn't the right thing to do, just that Johnson is not some international colossus, working miracles. He (for once) didn't do the *wrong* thing.
Despite his image at home, his image abroad is one of the savior of Ukraine, from foreign journalists.
Exactly - but I suspect that may dissipate in his absence, when his successor continues to implement the policy.
A policy started under Cameron and continued under May - who if anything was most hawkish on Putin’s Russia than Johnson. Johnson was a good front man for an already well established and long running policy. There’s a reason 2022 was not a repeat of 2014 - training, in which the UK played a key role.
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?
What's yours? Do you think he was picking up instructions from his handler?
Oh come on now @williamglenn, you can think of a better conspiracy theory.
How about Johnson encouraged Putin (via Lebedev) to invade Ukraine so he (Johnson) could become a popular war leader. Putin's reaction to Johnson's departure is because he feels tricked by him.
BTW, when is the last time that the Tribune of Ukrainian Freedom raised the topic in public?
Perhaps he's lost interest? Or internal polling showed it was no longer persuading Brits to back Big Dog in order to defend & support Ukraine?
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame" President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.
That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
He would have backed Brexiteers during the Referendum, and the FBPE (or whatever they're called) after it.
Yep, that's my point. He (probably) did not care for Brexit in itself; it was inconsequential to him compared to other matters. What he cared about was the division the arguments caused, both within the UK and between the UK and Europe.
Not sure if mentioned but Redfield have a poll out at 5 conducted entirely this morning described by Election Maps UK who has seen it as 'expectedly spicy'
Not sure if mentioned but Redfield have a poll out at 5 conducted entirely this morning described by Election Maps UK who has seen it as 'expectedly spicy'
Think all polling is a bit redundant till we know who the new (wo)man is in No 10.
Sunak - no Javid: hmmm Mordaunt: no - said daft things about Brexit, organised that ludicrous Leadsom March and got utterly pawned by Mumsnet the other day Truss: absolutely not Tugendhat: maybe depending on his team Braverman: please God no Wallace: possibly
EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
I note with amusement that all those who criticised anyone who supported Boris as doing the Kremlin’s bidding now have to accept that getting rid of him is what the Kremlin wanted.
Keep the non sequiturs coming
That’s my point. I’m taking the opportunity to make a silly point which is no more silly than all the people who told me that voting for Brexit meant I was doing Putin’s bidding.
But it is a non point. Putin wants various things. To say that in some cases he positively intervenes to make them happen, in others not, is surely in principle true. So what is your point?
If Johnson was a Putin stooge, then Putin got a very, very poor deal out of it. If he did, then it was a failed gamble; money wasted.
It doesn't mean he didn't try, though ...
Brexit; increased strain on the union, with both Scotland and Northern Ireland looking a bit dicey; continued army cuts; Lebedev; continued selling off of British defence and technology companies.
Aside from Brexit and the odd inclusion of Lebedev, those are just continuation of long-term trends.
The counter argument is much more persuasive: continued sanctions on Russia after Salisbury, continuation of the training scheme for Ukrainian troops; the way Johnson led the world (yes, really) in helping Ukraine at the start of this mess.
It would have been really easy for Johnson to have stopped or reduced the training scheme, called for the loosening of sanctions ("for peace"), not provided Ukraine with NLAWS, and not been as strident against Russia back in February.
That's where the argument for Johnson being a Putin stooge really falls down. His major actions were the opposite, and hurt Russia.
I think "stooge" might be a straw man, though keep an eye on whether Starmer runs with Lebedev that was getting Labour excited in the Commons this morning, but we do know Boris has done things which suited Russia, so perhaps a Leninist useful idiot is the other end of the scale. We also know Russia does interfere with foreign politics; that the KGB attempted to recruit David Cameron; that Russians continue to fund the Conservative Party. But it is probably a step too far to claim Boris follows daily orders from the Kremlin.
" but we do know Boris has done things which suited Russia,"
And some really, really important and immediate things that really went against Russia's interests. That's where your argument fails.
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
No. Not in the way YOU mean. Not a question of taking orders, but of moving along parallel lines, mutual aid, and all that.
Like Hitler and Mussolini. The former took the later for his role model, but certain neither was the puppet of the other.
World is not as simplistic as you would like it to be, for ideological purposes.
Vlad the Mad, BJx2, 45, Orban, Modi, Bolasano = League of Their Own
No doubt in the 1930s you'd have been calling Stanley Baldwin a fascist too.
Good grief.
Show me ONE example of Stanley Baldwin acting in the accustomed style & manner of Adolf Hitler.
Whereas it is NOT difficult to find Boris Johnson acting in style and manner Mad Vlad. Curbed, of course, by the British Constitution - or what's left of it. As with 45 in USA.
Can you tell me who Johnson has had bumped off? Which countries he's invaded? Which political opponents he's had imprisoned? Which businesses he's expropriated? Which warlords he's bankrolled?
Not sure if mentioned but Redfield have a poll out at 5 conducted entirely this morning described by Election Maps UK who has seen it as 'expectedly spicy'
Think all polling is a bit redundant till we know who the new (wo)man is in No 10.
Mr Johnson (the poller not the ex-pol-to-be) has already thought of that.
Not sure if mentioned but Redfield have a poll out at 5 conducted entirely this morning described by Election Maps UK who has seen it as 'expectedly spicy'
Think all polling is a bit redundant till we know who the new (wo)man is in No 10.
It is but interesting to see if its resignation relief rally (almost certainly not) or Labour surge due to chaos (surely). How much damage has the last 72 hours done them?
EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
UK debt is on an unsustainable path unless there are cuts in spending AND increases in taxes. This is why Sunak was so keen to keep a hold of his tax increases in NI and CT. We are living massively and unsustainably beyond our means.
Anyone wanting to cut taxes to defuse either the CoL crisis or even inflation has really got to come to terms with the fact that the government cannot really afford to do either.
EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
Not sure if mentioned but Redfield have a poll out at 5 conducted entirely this morning described by Election Maps UK who has seen it as 'expectedly spicy'
Think all polling is a bit redundant till we know who the new (wo)man is in No 10.
There will be a lot of hypothetical Starmer vs Random Tory polling which might be influential if enough MPs have faith in opinion polls.
Sunak - no Javid: hmmm Mordaunt: no - said daft things about Brexit, organised that ludicrous Leadsom March and got utterly pawned by Mumsnet the other day Truss: absolutely not Tugendhat: maybe depending on his team Braverman: please God no Wallace: possibly
Curious why you say absolutely not about Truss?
I believe you've been very positive about her in the past on her role for Equalities and Women's issues which I know is an issue close to your heart?
So I'm wondering what she's said or done to make her absolutely not, despite that?
EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
Sunak - no Javid: hmmm Mordaunt: no - said daft things about Brexit, organised that ludicrous Leadsom March and got utterly pawned by Mumsnet the other day Truss: absolutely not Tugendhat: maybe depending on his team Braverman: please God no Wallace: possibly
Javid is basically discount Sunak, so I don't really get why one is a no and one isn't.
Other than still holding on to some residual Sunak-love long after it should have gone, I basically agree with this.
EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
Comments
Like Hitler and Mussolini. The former took the later for his role model, but certain neither was the puppet of the other.
World is not as simplistic as you would like it to be, for ideological purposes.
Vlad the Mad, BJx2, 45, Orban, Modi, Bolasano = League of Their Own
It may not be the full bloated 170 payroll of before, but I think lack of junior cover has hit parliamentary business already.
“Those who laugh last laugh loudest” she is apparently shouting. Such dignity in these historic moments. https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1545026053642473472/video/1
In her first interview since her tearful resignation in December, she said Johnson would have had a “bullishness [...] to the bitter end” https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1545039101866348544/photo/1
A non-nuclear independent Scotland replacing the UK as being responsible for the GIUK gap would be great news for Putin.
Try as you might "Barty" you cannot spoil my day. I am so delighted that the twat that you with your so so so poor judgement thought was good (you were fawning over him for years) is out of office. I know very well that you are disappointed and I am laughing at you and all his other apologists.
He was/is shit and totally unfit for office. Only someone who still believes in the fantasy world of Brexit and the "benefits" (guffaw) thereof would ever been gullible enough to think that that fat incompetent oaf was suitable to be PM.
Now excuse me, as unlike you, I have work to do. Have a thoroughly miserable day, and don't cry too much about the humiliating defenestration of your idol.
It wouldn't entirely surprise me if he didn't run, but instead angled for a senior cabinet post.
Chris Bryant
@RhonddaBryant
I have checked the FCDO published transparency records for ministers’ meetings. Johnson did NOT register the meeting with Alexander Lebedev. He cannot have notified his officials.
11:30 AM · Jul 7, 2022
That helps. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1545035231404740615
NOT supporting the thesis btw
This is all about consent. Johnson has ceased to be leader of the Conservative Party. He remains in place only by the consent of the party. They can withdraw it.
definitely no Johnson pension sitting in an offshore bank account, either. But I do hope the next Labour PM sets up a whole new police department with unlimited funding, just to put any such suspicion to rest.
The counter argument is much more persuasive: continued sanctions on Russia after Salisbury, continuation of the training scheme for Ukrainian troops; the way Johnson led the world (yes, really) in helping Ukraine at the start of this mess.
It would have been really easy for Johnson to have stopped or reduced the training scheme, called for the loosening of sanctions ("for peace"), not provided Ukraine with NLAWS, and not been as strident against Russia back in February.
That's where the argument for Johnson being a Putin stooge really falls down. His major actions were the opposite, and hurt Russia.
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/2723636/#Comment_2723636
“He who laughs last, laughs the loudest. Wait and see!”
What does Boris Johnson’s inner circle have planned?
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1545026053642473472/video/1
By.
Boris.
I had to check the date of that (though obvs 2019 at earliest) given how often PB Tories have written off the SNP and its leaders. Feb 2020.
About the time he made one of his very, very, very few trips to Scotland and even fewer when he actually had the courtesy to call in on her. Such body language on his part on the steps of Bute House.
Oh you mean the strategic significance. Do you think that Scotland, which has said it wants to join the EU and is a happy (according to polls of the SNP) in NATO would somehow give Putin a free ride?
I suspect that as soon as enough people have electric cars, taxation on electricity will suddenly change.
No chance!
Virtually every day would have been lines from the PM that immediately unravelled in the face of the most basic fact-checking.
Very much plays into the arrogance point - how on earth did he would get away with it? (I mean ultimately he didn't, but daily press briefings would have accentuated the problem to say the very least).
I might buy him a string semmit (Anglice, vest).
How about Johnson encouraged Putin (via Lebedev) to invade Ukraine so he (Johnson) could become a popular war leader. Putin's reaction to Johnson's departure is because he feels tricked by him.
And if they do, and it works, it might act as a break on future BoZos
I think strategically even if an indy Scotland joined NATO an indy Scotland Navy isn't going to be anything like the Royal Navy. And if the divorce isn't amicable ...
Strategically Russia gains nothing from Brexit other than the BS of "we are divided", but the division came from Remainders not accepting they'd lost the vote. And democracies are always divided on something or other.
Strategically Russia gains a lot from Scottish independence. The Royal Navy loses the GIUK Gap, loses Faslane, need I go on?
Show me ONE example of Stanley Baldwin acting in the accustomed style & manner of Adolf Hitler.
Whereas it is NOT difficult to find Boris Johnson acting in style and manner Mad Vlad. Curbed, of course, by the British Constitution - or what's left of it. As with 45 in USA.
I agree with @williamglenn - nothing to see here. Move along.
It's a very cheap way of causing division amongst your enemy.
Hey, for all you know I might be receiving the Russian rouble...
Doubled in a month.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas
This is not good very bad for the October price cap. Over £3k/typical now nailed on, I recon.
Perhaps he's lost interest? Or internal polling showed it was no longer persuading Brits to back Big Dog in order to defend & support Ukraine?
But on the policy, I have no reservations that his policy responses to Salisbury, Ukraine and the like, were unambiguously anti-Kremlin and there is little sign of double play in his key actions.
I work on the basis that Hunt doesn’t think he has a realistic shot at winning and Wallace doesn’t want it. You can imagine his pal Wallace lining up next to Tugenhardt as continuity Defence, thereby completely monopolising the national security vote. They need to balance the ticket on economic competence and Brexit somehow. Hunt brings the former but not the latter. Dare I say, Hunt as Chancellor and Gove in Hunt’s old job at the Foreign Office? All you need then is another credible Brexit person at Home and you sweep the board.
Sorry I know I’m a pedant.
So, yes, he might have supported Hunt but by absolutely no means a banker for him (and he's not that brilliant a judge).
This will take a while to shake down. There could be several rounds with minor candidates showing a level of support as part of making the case for a cabinet role in future, before the serious business of choosing the final three from among the big boys and girls gets underway.
This is a prediction that no doubt will come back to haunt me, but colour me sceptical about candidates (like Tugendhat) who've not held a major cabinet job at some point. The Conservative Party is selecting a PM, not a leader in opposition, and these characters look like they are jockeying for cabinet position rather than the top job.
Plus Boris needs the Tree House more than ever. Dilyn being unwilling to give up the Dog House.
Sunak - no
Javid: hmmm
Mordaunt: no - said daft things about Brexit, organised that ludicrous Leadsom March and got utterly pawned by Mumsnet the other day
Truss: absolutely not
Tugendhat: maybe depending on his team
Braverman: please God no
Wallace: possibly
BoZo stays until they elect a new leader, which won't be Raab
https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1545045540244578304
And some really, really important and immediate things that really went against Russia's interests. That's where your argument fails.
"Asked to choose between potential Tory candidates and Keir Starmer, Starmer leads all of them apart from Rishi Sunak."
https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1545033843480084482
https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1545033847305379842?cxt=HHwWhIC9qaSGiPEqAAAA
UK debt is on an unsustainable path unless there are cuts in spending AND increases in taxes. This is why Sunak was so keen to keep a hold of his tax increases in NI and CT. We are living massively and unsustainably beyond our means.
Anyone wanting to cut taxes to defuse either the CoL crisis or even inflation has really got to come to terms with the fact that the government cannot really afford to do either.
EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1545045540244578304?s=21&t=ZFQFJRlKH4B0ggI8naNrqg
I believe you've been very positive about her in the past on her role for Equalities and Women's issues which I know is an issue close to your heart?
So I'm wondering what she's said or done to make her absolutely not, despite that?
So the point of a deputy PM is to stand in and make decisions if the PM can’t so I don’t really see an issue with it.
Other than still holding on to some residual Sunak-love long after it should have gone, I basically agree with this.
Also, it's pwned, not pawned.
The only thing strange about it is I thought we all thought Carrie had returned to Zac...