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As big dog Gromit quits Wallace is who Tory members want to replace him – politicalbetting.com

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  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    boulay said:

    What was his snark about the protection police being the “one group who never leak”?

    No, he said the "one group that never leave". He was paying tribute to their hard work, 24/7
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    eek said:

    MISTY said:

    Taz said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Cameron got that call wrong. The vote should never have happened.
    If the vote had not happened, the tory party would no longer exist.
    The whole point of the referendum was to bin it when a second coalition was required.

    Then Osbourne screwed up the plan by winning a small majority.
    No the voters screwed up the plan. And they were on the way to screwing the tories.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,615

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When will the first ballot be held?

    Best guess, Friday 15th (it is a Commons sitting Friday) or Monday 18th, with a view to being down to two candidates by Thursday 21st latest.
    They will 100% be down to 2 by recess and no more than 4 weeks voting. Maximum caretaker run of 6 weeks.

    I forget how this is done. Will there by hustings and debates and speeches?
    Probably! I cant recall. Ideally we get to 2 in 2 weeks and they agree a 'deal' and hes gone at recess
    Yes there will be all that stuff, but only if it gets to the members vote. They'll have to keep hustings down to a minimum or Johnson really will be there until October i.e. forget doing one in every region.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    It’s perfectly sensible for Boris to remain in post until the new leader is appointed. No need to add further disruption with an interim PM.
    9:30 AM · Jul 7, 2022"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,708
    edited July 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Did I just correctly hear Robert Peston saying that Ben Wallace is unlikely to be a candidate?

    He's the favourite in the betting stakes and with the Tory Home survey.

    Wallace is still very much a contender and has not ruled himself out and as of now is Boris' likely successor as PM and Tory members preference for next Tory leader as Yougov shows.

    Peston, as so often, is not on the mark
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When will the first ballot be held?

    Best guess, Friday 15th (it is a Commons sitting Friday) or Monday 18th, with a view to being down to two candidates by Thursday 21st latest.
    They will 100% be down to 2 by recess and no more than 4 weeks voting. Maximum caretaker run of 6 weeks.

    I forget how this is done. Will there by hustings and debates and speeches?
    Probably! I cant recall. Ideally we get to 2 in 2 weeks and they agree a 'deal' and hes gone at recess
    Yes there will be all that stuff, but only if it gets to the members vote. They'll have to keep hustings down to a minimum or Johnson really will be there until October i.e. forget doing one in every region.

    4 week process i reckon once we have 2
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Wout van aert at it again today. He can't keep this up surely.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    “Thems the breaks” said the worlds worst driving instructor
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,454
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    What was his snark about the protection police being the “one group who never leak”?

    No, he said the "one group that never leave". He was paying tribute to their hard work, 24/7
    I suppose they can’t leave until the last customer has finished their drinks.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Nope that was the 1992 election, more people voted in that the Brexit referendum.
    17.4 million is bigger than 14.1 million.
    Oh you don't do simple maths, you're one of those numpties.
    But it's true. The 17.4m who voted to Leave is more people, in absolute terms, than have voted for any cause, leader or party in any British election or referendum: in history
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Lots of nice messages from Ukrainians:

    @GoncharenkoUa
    Dear @BorisJohnson ! Ukraine is infinitely grateful to you for everything you have done for us. You will forever remain in our history and will be involved in the future victory. Thank you.


    https://twitter.com/GoncharenkoUa/status/1545012234044297221

    @mrsorokaa
    ⚡️UK Prime Minister Johnson resigns.

    Tangled in scandal back home, he’ll be remembered in Ukraine as a true friend and supporter of the country in its darkest hour.


    https://twitter.com/mrsorokaa/status/1545011243878170624

    Yes, he’s totally loved in Ukraine. Hopefully he might take a role under the next PM, of maintaining the war effort.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,397
    kle4 said:

    darkage said:

    dixiedean said:

    I thought that was a dull speech. Not dignified, nor appalling, nor interesting.
    What am I missing?

    Well, it was a long way from a Trump speech. He seems to accept the situation. Which is something.
    Boris's enablers don't give the same level of backing as Trump's. They have limits, which puts some on him.
    His problem is that he got rid of the "enemy within" 2 years ago; his supporters then all turned on each other and, eventually, the man himself.
    This came about and was rapidly accelerated by continuous misjudgements of his own doing.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,122
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    What was his snark about the protection police being the “one group who never leak”?

    No, he said the "one group that never leave". He was paying tribute to their hard work, 24/7
    That was how I heard it first time - second time I was sure it was leak....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    SKS not voncing this afternoon would be the biggest unforced error in political history

    HoC votes aren't secret. How can any tory mp vote confidence in him?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005
    Uxbridge by-election in the autumn.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,742
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    What was his snark about the protection police being the “one group who never leak”?

    No, he said the "one group that never leave". He was paying tribute to their hard work, 24/7
    To anyone with ears, he said "leak".
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When will the first ballot be held?

    Best guess, Friday 15th (it is a Commons sitting Friday) or Monday 18th, with a view to being down to two candidates by Thursday 21st latest.
    They will 100% be down to 2 by recess and no more than 4 weeks voting. Maximum caretaker run of 6 weeks.

    I forget how this is done. Will there by hustings and debates and speeches?
    Probably! I cant recall. Ideally we get to 2 in 2 weeks and they agree a 'deal' and hes gone at recess
    Yes there will be all that stuff, but only if it gets to the members vote. They'll have to keep hustings down to a minimum or Johnson really will be there until October i.e. forget doing one in every region.

    4 week process i reckon once we have 2
    The Commons returns from recess on Monday 5th September. They'll want it done before then.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,038
    I'm sure this has already been posted, but I'm too tired to go through the old threads:


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,485
    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When will the first ballot be held?

    It's supposed to be every Tuesday and Thursday, but they got a move on last time:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Conservative_Party_leadership_election#MPs'_vote
    The Whatsapp groups will need a frantic weekend to pledge support and work out who has any point throwing their hat in the ring. But by the end of next week, we could be down to two.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    You could not be more utterly wrong. The people who treated the voters with contempt were those who tried to overturn Brexit. Foremost amongst them SKS.

    Boris listened to the calls to leave the EU - and acted. For that, he was rewarded with an 80 seat majority.

    It was his casual relationship with the truth that did for him.
    I have some sympathy with this point of view although I think I would put it slightly differently.

    I agree with you that the Remainer Parliament was a farce. I mean, at times ridiculous and contemptuous for democracy.

    But the seeds of that were sown long before, as I think you will agree if you are candid with yourself, in a referendum that was not properly conceived, either in delivery or potential outcomes and in a Brexit which was never properly drafted, by any of the protagonists.

    Basically Cameron didn't think remain would lose so he never properly considered what would happen if it did. And that in itself was the ultimate contempt: a disregard for what was happening in the country outside of the Metropolitan elite south. This latter was not all of Cameron's fault but went back many years into a contempt amongst Blairites and EU officials alike.

    So with regards to Brexit, Boris was really the populist rabble rouser to push it over the line. He too never thought it through but then he has never thought anything through.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,325
    Scott_xP said:

    A graceless twat to the very end


    (or is it the end...?)

    True, but you can stop posting about him now 👍
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Bad politics from Starmer, promising a VONC if Boris doesn’t go.

    I think he’s too sucked in to his Boris-hatred to see the wood for trees.

    Boris is now castrated. The story has moved on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    It’s perfectly sensible for Boris to remain in post until the new leader is appointed. No need to add further disruption with an interim PM.
    9:30 AM · Jul 7, 2022"

    That would have been the case if he hadn't had such a hissy fit, and if he was not trying to cling on for 3 months.

    You want people to treat you with dignity, treat them with respect.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Uxbridge by-election in the autumn.

    Probably November. Writ moved once parliament returns after conferences if Boz takes the hundred straight away
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    What was his snark about the protection police being the “one group who never leak”?

    No, he said the "one group that never leave". He was paying tribute to their hard work, 24/7
    To anyone with ears, he said "leak".
    Yes, but aren't you the mad @Chris? I lose track, sometimes, of the PB nutters
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Johnson's lies during the Brexit campaign was what put us in the dire position of either inflicting a costly policy error on the economy or damaging trust in our democracy. There was no good outcome from there, but it was Johnson who put us there. We should have implemented a soft Brexit but that was blocked by May's red lines and the Tories whipping against those options in the Commons. And Johnson doesn't even believe in Brexit, the whole thing is simply a testimony to his infinite vanity and ambition.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,485
    JACK_W said:

    Statement From Jack W :

    Following the astonishing support from all sides of the Conservative Party and on careful reflection I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination by acclimation of the party as the next Prime Minister

    I feel it is time for the younger generation of centenarians and even those more tender in years to take the nation forward.

    Ah, that famous false modesty...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,507
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Nope that was the 1992 election, more people voted in that the Brexit referendum.
    17.4 million is bigger than 14.1 million.
    Oh you don't do simple maths, you're one of those numpties.
    But it's true. The 17.4m who voted to Leave is more people, in absolute terms, than have voted for any cause, leader or party in any British election or referendum: in history
    Oh wait you're comparing the vote splits in a binary choice plebiscite with a multi party election.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited July 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS not voncing this afternoon would be the biggest unforced error in political history

    HoC votes aren't secret. How can any tory mp vote confidence in him?

    It's confidence in the government. They can claim to have confidence in the government because the PM has indicated he will be going soon.

    Yes that's a bit silly, but it is managable silliness.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    boulay said:

    What was his snark about the protection police being the “one group who never leak”?

    They always get their round in.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,122
    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS not voncing this afternoon would be the biggest unforced error in political history

    HoC votes aren't secret. How can any tory mp vote confidence in him?

    I think there would be huge numbers of Tory abstentions and Labour could bring the Govt down. They'd be foolish not to.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Meanwhile. House prices rise at fastest rate since 2004.
    Up 1.8% in June alone.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    ping said:

    Bad politics from Starmer, promising a VONC if Boris doesn’t go.

    I think he’s too sucked in to his Boris-hatred to see the wood for trees.

    Boris is now castrated. The story has moved on.

    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS not voncing this afternoon would be the biggest unforced error in political history

    HoC votes aren't secret. How can any tory mp vote confidence in him?

    Who's right here :D
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Tory Sources believe new PM will be in place by September.

    New 1922 executive likely to agree rules on Monday. Expectation down to final two by summer break - with contest running during recess.

    But some Tory MPs want PM out immediately

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62048657
  • Applicant said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When will the first ballot be held?

    Best guess, Friday 15th (it is a Commons sitting Friday) or Monday 18th, with a view to being down to two candidates by Thursday 21st latest.
    They will 100% be down to 2 by recess and no more than 4 weeks voting. Maximum caretaker run of 6 weeks.

    I forget how this is done. Will there by hustings and debates and speeches?
    Probably! I cant recall. Ideally we get to 2 in 2 weeks and they agree a 'deal' and hes gone at recess
    Yes there will be all that stuff, but only if it gets to the members vote. They'll have to keep hustings down to a minimum or Johnson really will be there until October i.e. forget doing one in every region.

    4 week process i reckon once we have 2
    The Commons returns from recess on Monday 5th September. They'll want it done before then.
    Tradition last few times a PM has been replaced by their own party mid-term is that the newly elected leader becomes leader but not PM immediately, with the outgoing PM then holding a valedictory PMQs and going to see HMQ afterwards.

    I wonder if a new leader is elected on 5 or 6 September whether Boris would stick around for a valedictory PMQs on 7 September before being replaced? Would anyone want him to?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Maybe Ben Wallace will support Tom Tugendhat.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile. House prices rise at fastest rate since 2004.
    Up 1.8% in June alone.

    High inflation and low interest rates is absolubtely golden for house price inflation.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Some pretty quick to dance on Boris’ grave.

    But key questions for the next Tory leader now are:

    🔥 Do they stick with ripping up NI protocol
    🔥 Do they carry on the Rwanda plan
    🔥 Do they continue with the party’s realignment & embrace of the Red Wall / levelling up? https://twitter.com/michelbarnier/status/1545015642176233472
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,038
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Nope that was the 1992 election, more people voted in that the Brexit referendum.
    17.4 million is bigger than 14.1 million.
    Oh you don't do simple maths, you're one of those numpties.
    But it's true. The 17.4m who voted to Leave is more people, in absolute terms, than have voted for any cause, leader or party in any British election or referendum: in history
    (Although worth remembering that given that the British population is - almost - always increasing, you can claim that pretty much any incoming Prime Minister is more popular that any of their predecessors. Percentage of the population is a much more sensible way to do it. Where, of course, Brexit still leads.)

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,157
    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Bad politics from Starmer, promising a VONC if Boris doesn’t go.

    I think he’s too sucked in to his Boris-hatred to see the wood for trees.

    Boris is now castrated. The story has moved on.

    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS not voncing this afternoon would be the biggest unforced error in political history

    HoC votes aren't secret. How can any tory mp vote confidence in him?

    Who's right here :D
    Ping

    The VONC is in the government, not the PM.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile. House prices rise at fastest rate since 2004.
    Up 1.8% in June alone.

    Some people are going to be in negative equity pretty quickly when interest rates are ramped up to 3-4%.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,325
    MISTY said:

    Taz said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Cameron got that call wrong. The vote should never have happened.
    If the vote had not happened, the tory party would no longer exist.
    It would, it may have fractured, but it would still be there however Cameron enabled all of this for interns also Tory party discipline.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Heathener said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    You could not be more utterly wrong. The people who treated the voters with contempt were those who tried to overturn Brexit. Foremost amongst them SKS.

    Boris listened to the calls to leave the EU - and acted. For that, he was rewarded with an 80 seat majority.

    It was his casual relationship with the truth that did for him.
    I have some sympathy with this point of view although I think I would put it slightly differently.

    I agree with you that the Remainer Parliament was a farce. I mean, at times ridiculous and contemptuous for democracy.

    But the seeds of that were sown long before, as I think you will agree if you are candid with yourself, in a referendum that was not properly conceived, either in delivery or potential outcomes and in a Brexit which was never properly drafted, by any of the protagonists.

    Basically Cameron didn't think remain would lose so he never properly considered what would happen if it did. And that in itself was the ultimate contempt: a disregard for what was happening in the country outside of the Metropolitan elite south. This latter was not all of Cameron's fault but went back many years into a contempt amongst Blairites and EU officials alike.

    So with regards to Brexit, Boris was really the populist rabble rouser to push it over the line. He too never thought it through but then he has never thought anything through.
    BIB: No, it's worse than that. He deliberately refused to allow any planning for what a Leave wote would mean because it would have damaged his strategy for the Remain campaign.

    referendum that was not properly conceived, either in delivery or potential outcomes and in a Brexit which was never properly drafted, by any of the protagonists. - this is absolutely, 100% correct. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that, before 2019, the protagonists were almost all Remain supporters.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,485

    Not sure Wallace will get close to the top job.

    Strongly suspect a woman will be seen the best to confront Starmer.

    Truss and Pitel would be a disaster for the Tories though. I can't quite put my finger on why I feel Truss would go down like a lead balloon but I think it is her presence. She always seems like a lightweight mimicking a serious politician.
    Yes, I have sympathy with that take.

    Truss has that slightly distant response of a ventriloquists dummy.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Heathener said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    You could not be more utterly wrong. The people who treated the voters with contempt were those who tried to overturn Brexit. Foremost amongst them SKS.

    Boris listened to the calls to leave the EU - and acted. For that, he was rewarded with an 80 seat majority.

    It was his casual relationship with the truth that did for him.
    I have some sympathy with this point of view although I think I would put it slightly differently.

    I agree with you that the Remainer Parliament was a farce. I mean, at times ridiculous and contemptuous for democracy.

    But the seeds of that were sown long before, as I think you will agree if you are candid with yourself, in a referendum that was not properly conceived, either in delivery or potential outcomes and in a Brexit which was never properly drafted, by any of the protagonists.

    Basically Cameron didn't think remain would lose so he never properly considered what would happen if it did. And that in itself was the ultimate contempt: a disregard for what was happening in the country outside of the Metropolitan elite south. This latter was not all of Cameron's fault but went back many years into a contempt amongst Blairites and EU officials alike.

    So with regards to Brexit, Boris was really the populist rabble rouser to push it over the line. He too never thought it through but then he has never thought anything through.
    Remarkably, I agree with much of this. Brexit was the culmination of decades of failure and cowardice in the British political establishment

    If only Blair had possessed the courage to go for a referendum on the EU Constitution/Lisbon. He would have lost it, but so what. The EU would have been forced to give us more opt outs if they wanted more unity

    Brexit avoided

    Ditto Major with Maastricht, and Cameron in multiple ways

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS not voncing this afternoon would be the biggest unforced error in political history

    HoC votes aren't secret. How can any tory mp vote confidence in him?

    As said above, you turn it around and say “he’s reigned, aren’t you paying attention” and have someone do a Gove from last time and go on the attack. That’s a bit harder without Gove but the leadership contenders will be queuing up to open and close the debate.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,773
    ping said:

    Bad politics from Starmer, promising a VONC if Boris doesn’t go.

    I think he’s too sucked in to his Boris-hatred to see the wood for trees.

    Boris is now castrated. The story has moved on.

    The story has indeed moved on but keep an eye on the Lebedev story which was getting Labour excited in the House of Commons this morning — national security; ministerial code; criminal offence; all underpinned by Boris being vague and saying different things to different people at different times. A bit like the last story in that respect.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,519

    Lots of nice messages from Ukrainians:

    @GoncharenkoUa
    Dear @BorisJohnson ! Ukraine is infinitely grateful to you for everything you have done for us. You will forever remain in our history and will be involved in the future victory. Thank you.


    https://twitter.com/GoncharenkoUa/status/1545012234044297221

    @mrsorokaa
    ⚡️UK Prime Minister Johnson resigns.

    Tangled in scandal back home, he’ll be remembered in Ukraine as a true friend and supporter of the country in its darkest hour.


    https://twitter.com/mrsorokaa/status/1545011243878170624

    Making him Ambassador to Ukraine would have a certain logic.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,288
    Mortimer said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS not voncing this afternoon would be the biggest unforced error in political history

    HoC votes aren't secret. How can any tory mp vote confidence in him?

    I think there would be huge numbers of Tory abstentions and Labour could bring the Govt down. They'd be foolish not to.
    +1 - it would mean that the Tory party needed to sort things out in 2 weeks and would result in Government capable of making decisions arriving in July and not September...

    And there are decisions that do need to be made - see my very first post on this thread.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Scott_xP said:

    Some pretty quick to dance on Boris’ grave.

    But key questions for the next Tory leader now are:

    🔥 Do they stick with ripping up NI protocol
    🔥 Do they carry on the Rwanda plan
    🔥 Do they continue with the party’s realignment & embrace of the Red Wall / levelling up? https://twitter.com/michelbarnier/status/1545015642176233472

    Far more important than any of that is,,,,,,,,do they continue to embrace the hard target of net zero by 2050 at all costs?

    Do you really think people would give a t*ss about Chris effing Pincher if they weren't getting poorer by the month,, the forecasts were for them to get even poorer, and there was no prospect of a recovery?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,038
    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Someone has just listed No 10 on Rightmove. Key features include a ‘cat on site’, ‘security’ and ‘great social space.’ https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1545013853766942721/photo/1
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Scott_xP said:

    Tory Sources believe new PM will be in place by September.

    New 1922 executive likely to agree rules on Monday. Expectation down to final two by summer break - with contest running during recess.

    But some Tory MPs want PM out immediately

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62048657

    Johnson will be there until the new leader is in place in September. Standard procedure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    .
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did I just correctly hear Robert Peston saying that Ben Wallace is unlikely to be a candidate?

    He's the favourite in the betting stakes and with the Tory Home survey.

    Wallace is still very much a contender and has not ruled himself out and as of now is Boris' likely successor as PM and Tory members preference for next Tory leader as Yougov shows.

    Peston, as so often, is not on the mark
    Peston is overstating the case, but he's not so wide of the mark.

    Wallace has no organisation, group of supporters, or campaign funding in place - indeed so far he's made no moves at all. And he has no real public profile.

    Of course he could still throw his hat into the ring, and possibly win. But he needs to decide quickly.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited July 2022

    Lots of nice messages from Ukrainians:

    @GoncharenkoUa
    Dear @BorisJohnson ! Ukraine is infinitely grateful to you for everything you have done for us. You will forever remain in our history and will be involved in the future victory. Thank you.


    https://twitter.com/GoncharenkoUa/status/1545012234044297221

    @mrsorokaa
    ⚡️UK Prime Minister Johnson resigns.

    Tangled in scandal back home, he’ll be remembered in Ukraine as a true friend and supporter of the country in its darkest hour.


    https://twitter.com/mrsorokaa/status/1545011243878170624

    Making him Ambassador to Ukraine would have a certain logic.
    No. I don’t like political appointments for ambassadors. Keep the diplomatic service non-partisan.

    The US system is terrible. Let’s not replicate it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson will be there until the new leader is in place in September. Standard procedure.

    Nothing standard about BoZo's departure
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936

    JACK_W said:

    Statement From Jack W :

    Following the astonishing support from all sides of the Conservative Party and on careful reflection I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination by acclimation of the party as the next Prime Minister

    I feel it is time for the younger generation of centenarians and even those more tender in years to take the nation forward.

    Ah, that famous false modesty...
    Caesar, making a show of declining the crown.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Johnson's lies duringwinning the Brexit campaign was what put us in the dire position of either inflicting a costly policy error on the economy or damaging trust in our democracy. There was no good outcome from there, but it was Johnson who put us there. We should have implemented a soft Brexit but that was blocked by May's red lines and the Tories whipping against those options in the Commons. And Johnson doesn't even believe in Brexit, the whole thing is simply a testimony to his infinite vanity and ambition.
    FTFY. And again, it's not just that Leave won, but that Cameron had refused to allow planning for what a Leave vote would mean.

    This just looks like an attempt to evade responsibility, like we saw with some lefties last night. If you put Corbyn up against Boris, you have to take some of the blame for the public seeing the latter as the lesser of two evils. Similarly, if you spent 25 years stopping the public having any say on the European Project beginning with Maastricht, leaving only the nuclear button available to the public, you can't blame them for pushing it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Nigelb said:

    JACK_W said:

    Statement From Jack W :

    Following the astonishing support from all sides of the Conservative Party and on careful reflection I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination by acclimation of the party as the next Prime Minister

    I feel it is time for the younger generation of centenarians and even those more tender in years to take the nation forward.

    Ah, that famous false modesty...
    Caesar, making a show of declining the crown.
    JackW is about to be stabbed 27 times?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Nope that was the 1992 election, more people voted in that the Brexit referendum.
    17.4 million is bigger than 14.1 million.
    Oh you don't do simple maths, you're one of those numpties.
    But it's true. The 17.4m who voted to Leave is more people, in absolute terms, than have voted for any cause, leader or party in any British election or referendum: in history
    Oh wait you're comparing the vote splits in a binary choice plebiscite with a multi party election.
    We're comparing the number of votes for a thing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,038
    Nigelb said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did I just correctly hear Robert Peston saying that Ben Wallace is unlikely to be a candidate?

    He's the favourite in the betting stakes and with the Tory Home survey.

    Wallace is still very much a contender and has not ruled himself out and as of now is Boris' likely successor as PM and Tory members preference for next Tory leader as Yougov shows.

    Peston, as so often, is not on the mark
    Peston is overstating the case, but he's not so wide of the mark.

    Wallace has no organisation, group of supporters, or campaign funding in place - indeed so far he's made no moves at all. And he has no real public profile.

    Of course he could still throw his hat into the ring, and possibly win. But he needs to decide quickly.
    Which MPs do have big blocks of support?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936

    Not sure Wallace will get close to the top job.

    Strongly suspect a woman will be seen the best to confront Starmer.

    Truss and Pitel would be a disaster for the Tories though. I can't quite put my finger on why I feel Truss would go down like a lead balloon but I think it is her presence. She always seems like a lightweight mimicking a serious politician.
    Yes, I have sympathy with that take.

    Truss has that slightly distant response of a ventriloquists dummy.

    I wouldn't bet on her, either.

    Liz Truss makes early G20 exit to drum up Tory leadership support
    Foreign secretary’s retreat from Indonesia summit and potential showdown with Russia may concern allies
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/07/liz-truss-makes-early-g20-exit-to-drum-up-tory-leadership-support
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
    How come Switzerland isn't suffering the same inflationary pressures as the rest of europe?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936

    Lots of nice messages from Ukrainians:

    @GoncharenkoUa
    Dear @BorisJohnson ! Ukraine is infinitely grateful to you for everything you have done for us. You will forever remain in our history and will be involved in the future victory. Thank you.


    https://twitter.com/GoncharenkoUa/status/1545012234044297221

    @mrsorokaa
    ⚡️UK Prime Minister Johnson resigns.

    Tangled in scandal back home, he’ll be remembered in Ukraine as a true friend and supporter of the country in its darkest hour.


    https://twitter.com/mrsorokaa/status/1545011243878170624

    Making him Ambassador to Ukraine would have a certain logic.
    Don't be daft, Nick.
    He'd like the title, but none of the commitment, work or responsibility involved.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,330
    The Conservative Party must hang its head in shame. Outrageous!
    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Bad politics from Starmer, promising a VONC if Boris doesn’t go.

    I think he’s too sucked in to his Boris-hatred to see the wood for trees.

    Boris is now castrated. The story has moved on.

    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS not voncing this afternoon would be the biggest unforced error in political history

    HoC votes aren't secret. How can any tory mp vote confidence in him?

    Who's right here :D
    Ishmael.

    Starmer was poor at the presser. Reminded me of Kinnock and Westland.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Taz said:

    MISTY said:

    Taz said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Cameron got that call wrong. The vote should never have happened.
    If the vote had not happened, the tory party would no longer exist.
    It would, it may have fractured, but it would still be there however Cameron enabled all of this for interns also Tory party discipline.
    YO seem to have completely forgotten that there was a European election in which Farage won and the tories were hammered. If that wasn't a threat from the electorate, I don't know what is.

    The person Johnson forgot to thank today was Farage, who stood down his troops in many constituencies so the tories could win big. I imagine Farage bitterly regrets that, and in case any tories get any ideas, it is something he would never do again.
  • rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
    How come Switzerland isn't suffering the same inflationary pressures as the rest of europe?
    Do they rely on hydro and nuclear power and are not as dependent on gas as other countries ?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,963
    edited July 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
    How come Switzerland isn't suffering the same inflationary pressures as the rest of europe?
    Like Japan, they had been regularly suffering from deflation, so inflation is up even there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
    How come Switzerland isn't suffering the same inflationary pressures as the rest of europe?
    Do they rely on hydro and nuclear power and are not as dependent on gas as other countries ?
    Strength of the Swiss franc? It’s a very hard currency
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    Sandpit said:

    Mrs Sandpit is genuinely upset this afternoon.

    All candidates need to make it clear that the Ukraine policy will be continued.

    All significant political parties have made that clear.

    In any event, I'm fairly certain it will be a declared article of faith by participants in the upcoming contest.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
    Starting to go in the other direction in the US, though.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,922
    Nigelb said:

    Lots of nice messages from Ukrainians:

    @GoncharenkoUa
    Dear @BorisJohnson ! Ukraine is infinitely grateful to you for everything you have done for us. You will forever remain in our history and will be involved in the future victory. Thank you.


    https://twitter.com/GoncharenkoUa/status/1545012234044297221

    @mrsorokaa
    ⚡️UK Prime Minister Johnson resigns.

    Tangled in scandal back home, he’ll be remembered in Ukraine as a true friend and supporter of the country in its darkest hour.


    https://twitter.com/mrsorokaa/status/1545011243878170624

    Making him Ambassador to Ukraine would have a certain logic.
    Don't be daft, Nick.
    He'd like the title, but none of the commitment, work or responsibility involved.
    Not to mention the discretion..
  • Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
    How come Switzerland isn't suffering the same inflationary pressures as the rest of europe?
    Do they rely on hydro and nuclear power and are not as dependent on gas as other countries ?
    Strength of the Swiss franc? It’s a very hard currency
    The franc hasn't changed that much versus sterling.

    But the fact that they get most of their electricity from hydro power, and they did have negative inflation in most of recent years, means that they have not as much extra inflation and added onto a lower base.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    JACK_W said:

    Statement From Jack W :

    Following the astonishing support from all sides of the Conservative Party and on careful reflection I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination by acclimation of the party as the next Prime Minister

    I feel it is time for the younger generation of centenarians and even those more tender in years to take the nation forward.

    Ah, that famous false modesty...
    Caesar, making a show of declining the crown.
    JackW is about to be stabbed 27 times?
    Brutal suggestion.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,971

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
    How come Switzerland isn't suffering the same inflationary pressures as the rest of europe?
    It’s a high inflation rate for Switzerland, but the country has long had low inflation.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    So now it seems at least more likely than not that he'll go, we have to replace him, in no particular order:
    Wallace, Tugendhat, Truss, Sunak, Javid, Hunt, Mordaunt, Braverman, Zahawi, Harper... I'm sure I've missed a least one or two.

    But either way, there are at least five, possibly six there that I would find preferable to any of the candidates in 2019 or 2016, and another two or three that I would find preferable to most of those candidates.
    And meanwhile, SKS is (to me) preferable to any of his last three predecessors, and most of the realistic candidates to replace him (Rayner excepted) are also preferable (to me). And the Lib Dems are led by a grown-up too.
    There is reason to be not totally despondent for the future of politics in this country.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Some pretty quick to dance on Boris’ grave.

    But key questions for the next Tory leader now are:

    🔥 Do they stick with ripping up NI protocol
    🔥 Do they carry on the Rwanda plan
    🔥 Do they continue with the party’s realignment & embrace of the Red Wall / levelling up? https://twitter.com/michelbarnier/status/1545015642176233472

    Far more important than any of that is,,,,,,,,do they continue to embrace the hard target of net zero by 2050 at all costs?

    Do you really think people would give a t*ss about Chris effing Pincher if they weren't getting poorer by the month,, the forecasts were for them to get even poorer, and there was no prospect of a recovery?

    So, your solution to higher energy bills caused by imports of fossil fuels is for us to use more fossil fuels in the future?

    It's certainly a unique take.
    You seem to be ignoring the green levies (Up to 15% of bills?) that Britons pay for renewables that we hear on here are as cheap as chips.

    If Johnson had scrapped those subsidies, or even reduced them. he would still be PM now.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    MISTY said:

    Taz said:

    MISTY said:

    Taz said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Cameron got that call wrong. The vote should never have happened.
    If the vote had not happened, the tory party would no longer exist.
    It would, it may have fractured, but it would still be there however Cameron enabled all of this for interns also Tory party discipline.
    YO seem to have completely forgotten that there was a European election in which Farage won and the tories were hammered. If that wasn't a threat from the electorate, I don't know what is.

    The person Johnson forgot to thank today was Farage, who stood down his troops in many constituencies so the tories could win big. I imagine Farage bitterly regrets that, and in case any tories get any ideas, it is something he would never do again.
    Nah. Farage stood against the Tories in seats they needed to gain.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did I just correctly hear Robert Peston saying that Ben Wallace is unlikely to be a candidate?

    He's the favourite in the betting stakes and with the Tory Home survey.

    Wallace is still very much a contender and has not ruled himself out and as of now is Boris' likely successor as PM and Tory members preference for next Tory leader as Yougov shows.

    Peston, as so often, is not on the mark
    Peston is overstating the case, but he's not so wide of the mark.

    Wallace has no organisation, group of supporters, or campaign funding in place - indeed so far he's made no moves at all. And he has no real public profile.

    Of course he could still throw his hat into the ring, and possibly win. But he needs to decide quickly.
    Which MPs do have big blocks of support?
    Hunt and Gove have whats left of their 2019 backers and will certainly hit the 5% threshold. We will see with the rest but i'd think Javid, Sunak and Truss can all bank on 5% as can Baker with the wingnuts. That might be your lot, maybe a Wallace or Zahawi or Mordaunt also hitting threshold
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
    How come Switzerland isn't suffering the same inflationary pressures as the rest of europe?
    Do they rely on hydro and nuclear power and are not as dependent on gas as other countries ?
    Strength of the Swiss franc? It’s a very hard currency
    It's both reasons: the high value of the Franc and that they rely heavily on hydro and nuclear power
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Johnson's lies duringwinning the Brexit campaign was what put us in the dire position of either inflicting a costly policy error on the economy or damaging trust in our democracy. There was no good outcome from there, but it was Johnson who put us there. We should have implemented a soft Brexit but that was blocked by May's red lines and the Tories whipping against those options in the Commons. And Johnson doesn't even believe in Brexit, the whole thing is simply a testimony to his infinite vanity and ambition.
    FTFY. And again, it's not just that Leave won, but that Cameron had refused to allow planning for what a Leave vote would mean.

    This just looks like an attempt to evade responsibility, like we saw with some lefties last night. If you put Corbyn up against Boris, you have to take some of the blame for the public seeing the latter as the lesser of two evils. Similarly, if you spent 25 years stopping the public having any say on the European Project beginning with Maastricht, leaving only the nuclear button available to the public, you can't blame them for pushing it.
    I criticised Labour for choosing Corbyn as leader on here yesterday and repeatedly in the past. It was a disastrously stupid thing to do. I voted against him as leader twice.
    We gave the public every opportunity to vote against what you call the European Project, in the usual way of a parliamentary democracy. What was UKIP's top vote share in a Westminster election? Referenda are a poor way of doing politics, they attract every kind of protest vote and dishonest campaigning hence you end up with a vote for a Brexit that meant different things to different people, that nobody could implement in the way it was sold, which has made us all poorer, and which the public no longer support.
    It has been a total disaster, leaving us divided and weak. And Boris Johnson was the one who got it over the line. So no, I don't believe he got the big calls right.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Labour have missed their chance of a snap election in favourable circumstances.
  • Sandpit said:

    Mrs Sandpit is genuinely upset this afternoon.

    All candidates need to make it clear that the Ukraine policy will be continued.

    Ukraine is fortunately/unfortunately in the position of being his current devotion and having not yet been let down by him.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,058
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did I just correctly hear Robert Peston saying that Ben Wallace is unlikely to be a candidate?

    He's the favourite in the betting stakes and with the Tory Home survey.

    Wallace is still very much a contender and has not ruled himself out and as of now is Boris' likely successor as PM and Tory members preference for next Tory leader as Yougov shows.

    Peston, as so often, is not on the mark
    I think Wallace is playing the long game - keep on with the current job, watch a bunch of early contenders trip over themselves, then decide to run or not.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Bad politics from Starmer, promising a VONC if Boris doesn’t go.

    I think he’s too sucked in to his Boris-hatred to see the wood for trees.

    Boris is now castrated. The story has moved on.

    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS not voncing this afternoon would be the biggest unforced error in political history

    HoC votes aren't secret. How can any tory mp vote confidence in him?

    Who's right here :D
    Ping

    The VONC is in the government, not the PM.
    Who is in charge of the government?

    Looking forward to ping reprising his chart hit, How Aaron Bell is doing himself and his constituents a disservice by agitating against the nailed on till 2024 pm boris johnson. Always gets me on the dance floor.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    So Boris hasn't actually resigned, has he?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Sandpit said:

    Mrs Sandpit is genuinely upset this afternoon.

    All candidates need to make it clear that the Ukraine policy will be continued.

    Ukraine is fortunately/unfortunately in the position of being his current devotion and having not yet been let down by him.
    Encouraging people with confident boosting and a blank check is something he is well suited to.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Cookie said:

    So now it seems at least more likely than not that he'll go, we have to replace him, in no particular order:
    Wallace, Tugendhat, Truss, Sunak, Javid, Hunt, Mordaunt, Braverman, Zahawi, Harper... I'm sure I've missed a least one or two.

    But either way, there are at least five, possibly six there that I would find preferable to any of the candidates in 2019 or 2016, and another two or three that I would find preferable to most of those candidates.
    And meanwhile, SKS is (to me) preferable to any of his last three predecessors, and most of the realistic candidates to replace him (Rayner excepted) are also preferable (to me). And the Lib Dems are led by a grown-up too.
    There is reason to be not totally despondent for the future of politics in this country.

    Wiki currently has:

    Declared: Braverman
    Publicly expressed interest: Baker, Tugendhat, Berry
    Possible: Ellwood, Harper, Hunt, Javid, McVey, Mordaunt, Patel, Raab, Sunak, Truss, Wallace, Zahawi
    Declined: Hancock
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,805
    Are we going to get an auction of tax cuts from the leadership candidates? Most tax cuts = the winner?

    I think so. Which probably rules out the numerate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Applicant said:

    MISTY said:

    Taz said:

    MISTY said:

    Taz said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Cameron got that call wrong. The vote should never have happened.
    If the vote had not happened, the tory party would no longer exist.
    It would, it may have fractured, but it would still be there however Cameron enabled all of this for interns also Tory party discipline.
    YO seem to have completely forgotten that there was a European election in which Farage won and the tories were hammered. If that wasn't a threat from the electorate, I don't know what is.

    The person Johnson forgot to thank today was Farage, who stood down his troops in many constituencies so the tories could win big. I imagine Farage bitterly regrets that, and in case any tories get any ideas, it is something he would never do again.
    Nah. Farage stood against the Tories in seats they needed to gain.
    Yes, the narrative he helped them is more complex than people assume.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,330
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour have missed their chance of a snap election in favourable circumstances.

    Not really.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Are we going to get an auction of tax cuts from the leadership candidates? Most tax cuts = the winner?

    I think so. Which probably rules out the numerate.

    A last poison pill from Boris to the contenders - several won't commit to it, and the Corbyn of the group will, and will win.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did I just correctly hear Robert Peston saying that Ben Wallace is unlikely to be a candidate?

    He's the favourite in the betting stakes and with the Tory Home survey.

    Wallace is still very much a contender and has not ruled himself out and as of now is Boris' likely successor as PM and Tory members preference for next Tory leader as Yougov shows.

    Peston, as so often, is not on the mark
    Peston is overstating the case, but he's not so wide of the mark.

    Wallace has no organisation, group of supporters, or campaign funding in place - indeed so far he's made no moves at all. And he has no real public profile.

    Of course he could still throw his hat into the ring, and possibly win. But he needs to decide quickly.
    Which MPs do have big blocks of support?
    Hunt and Gove have whats left of their 2019 backers and will certainly hit the 5% threshold. We will see with the rest but i'd think Javid, Sunak and Truss can all bank on 5% as can Baker with the wingnuts. That might be your lot, maybe a Wallace or Zahawi or Mordaunt also hitting threshold
    IIRC, last time a candidate only needed a proposer and seconder to get on the ballot, but they had to get 5% to get through the first ballot.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Tory MPs queueing up to deliver the eulogies after stabbing him in the back... The chutzpah is incredible.

    Someone here yesterday came up with the perfect epitaph for Boris:

    Got the big calls right, treated the small calls with utter contempt.
    Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong. Treated the voters with utter contempt.
    Implementing the biggest democratic vote in British history is treating the voters with utter contempt? OK then...
    Lied to them to win the Brexit vote. Lied to them in 2019 about his deal. Lied to them about levelling up. Lied to them about 40 new hospitals. Lied in the house of commons. Lied to the cabinet. Yeah, he's treated the voters, actually our entire democratic system, with contempt. Good riddance.
    You said "Got the biggest call (Brexit) wrong". But it's the alternative to this (ignoring the vote and remaining in the EU anyway as advocated by SKS) is what would have been treating the voters with contempt.

    Boris's negatives far outweigh his positives - but he did have positives.
    Look at Europe. Look at the dreadful f8icking state it is in. Betting the bank on Russian gas. At war with its farmers. Double digit inflation in some areas. Central bank able to do nothing for fear of screwing the weaker states.

    Why anyone wants to rejoin that, I will absolutely never know.
    Pretty much every country has inflation in the 5-12% range right now, with the exception of Russia (17%), Switzerland (3%) and Japan (3%) - https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

    The Eurozone and the US are both at 8.6%, while the UK is at 9.1%.

    Why?

    Because the cost of oil, gas and grain has gone through the roof.
    How come Switzerland isn't suffering the same inflationary pressures as the rest of europe?
    Do they rely on hydro and nuclear power and are not as dependent on gas as other countries ?
    Strength of the Swiss franc? It’s a very hard currency
    The franc hasn't changed that much versus sterling.

    But the fact that they get most of their electricity from hydro power, and they did have negative inflation in most of recent years, means that they have not as much extra inflation and added onto a lower base.
    But the Franc is very strong so every extra US Dollar increase in the price of oil translates into a smaller hit on the cost of goods bought in Switzerland, compared to in the UK or Eurozone. Your reason is also correct. It's not an either/or answer.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Nigelb said:

    Lots of nice messages from Ukrainians:

    @GoncharenkoUa
    Dear @BorisJohnson ! Ukraine is infinitely grateful to you for everything you have done for us. You will forever remain in our history and will be involved in the future victory. Thank you.


    https://twitter.com/GoncharenkoUa/status/1545012234044297221

    @mrsorokaa
    ⚡️UK Prime Minister Johnson resigns.

    Tangled in scandal back home, he’ll be remembered in Ukraine as a true friend and supporter of the country in its darkest hour.


    https://twitter.com/mrsorokaa/status/1545011243878170624

    Making him Ambassador to Ukraine would have a certain logic.
    Don't be daft, Nick.
    He'd like the title, but none of the commitment, work or responsibility involved.
    Not to mention the discretion..
    And Carrie would love Kyiv.
This discussion has been closed.