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Game over, man – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    New: Further Cabinet resignations will follow if Boris Johnson ignores a request by Conservative party grandees to resign, per three people familiar

    Gove, Coffey tipped to go if PM won't fall on sword

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/live-blog/2022-07-05/uk-government-resignations?cursorId=62C5939CB21C0000 https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1544681114618535938/photo/1

    The (euphemistic) swordsman falls on his sword
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It feels like it is all over for the PM now, one way or another. But it is worth pausing to consider what a dramatic fall from grace it is. In political terms, it is only 5 minutes since he won his party a large majority. It is unprecedented, certainly in modern times.
    https://twitter.com/tombradby/status/1544681661366943744

    He won the Tories their biggest majority since Thatcher in 1987 in 2019 and they will now likely have to wait another 30 years to match it
    Do you in your heart of hearts still think he’s the right person for the job?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    Alternatively, run the candidates past a pb.com panel.

    "No....next....no....next...are you out of your tiny minds?....."
    Please, oh please, could I be on that panel?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    He's in committee
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    GIN1138 said:

    Any sign of the Podium making an appearance in Downing St. yet?

    ...with Boris flanked by fellow career losers Nadine Dorries and Rees-Mogg.....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Has the Liaison Committee met yet? And if so, has the PM turned up to it?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Johnson in front of liason committee on Sky

    Amazing. Will this be "I am brilliant" or "I am fucked"?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It feels like it is all over for the PM now, one way or another. But it is worth pausing to consider what a dramatic fall from grace it is. In political terms, it is only 5 minutes since he won his party a large majority. It is unprecedented, certainly in modern times.
    https://twitter.com/tombradby/status/1544681661366943744

    He won the Tories their biggest majority since Thatcher in 1987 in 2019 and they will now likely have to wait another 30 years to match it
    Well yes. Arguably the first of those because of Boris and the second also because of Boris.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris's epitaph will be that he got all the big calls right.

    But treated every other call with utter contempt.

    OPatz was a big call. And he fucked it up.

    Pincher was a big call. And it ended him.
    I'll give Johnson appointing Kate Bingham as a call he got right...
    The Kate Bingham who said we wouldn't want to vaccinate the whole adult population because the risk of side effects was too great?

    If that was one of his good calls, I'd hate to consider the bad ones!
    Did she specifically say that? And when? Often population effects only become clear after much wider use (as in the AZ clotting problem) as 1 in 10,000 odds don't show up in trial data that well.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    Alternatively, run the candidates past a pb.com panel.

    "No....next....no....next...are you out of your tiny minds?....."
    Please, oh please, could I be on that panel?
    Damn it, your the Chair!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:
    ...which is around 6600 feet.
    i checked the map, and I am 90% sure I can see the highest peaks of the “Accursed Mountains” on the Albanian border. They are about 60 miles away
    That's 100km not 100 miles (which is 160km)...
    As I said before. “100 miles” was an oratorical flourish, I had no true idea

    But I can see a long way

    The Accursed Mountains do look quite ominous
    Ah, now all bets are off if there are mountains in the background.

    Where's the furthest you can see in the UK? There's a few views across the Irish Sea which must be 100 miles. I reckon you can see Northern Ireland from the top of Scafell Pike on a clear day, not that I've ever had a clear day at the top of Scafell Pike. Few such places have restaurants though, even mediocre ones.
    On a clear day from the top of Black Combe you can see Blackpool Tower to the south, the Isle of Man to the West and Scotland to the North.
    Not quite the same thing, but from the top of the (man-made) hill in our village, you can see a solar farm, a wind pump, an oldy-worlde windmill (the oldest surviving windmill in the UK), and a modern wind farm. All within a few miles of the top of the hill.

    I want someone to put in a small water turbine by the lakes so I can add that to the list. ;)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,045

    Has the Liaison Committee met yet? And if so, has the PM turned up to it?

    Yes and live now
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    The committee chair basically seemed to say "we'll get to the good bit at the end".
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,358

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris's epitaph will be that he got all the big calls right.

    But treated every other call with utter contempt.

    OPatz was a big call. And he fucked it up.

    Pincher was a big call. And it ended him.
    Totally true, but partygate was wot did it. There is visceral anger about it in the nation at large.

    And their first instinct was to LIE to parliament about it.

    Counterfactuals are shit because they can't be proved, but imagine a world where the hand went up and Johnson said - this is what happened, it was wrong, I'm sorry, etc. Rather than trying to front it out. Who knows.

    But you can't change who you are. He has said that just last week. We were warned. He is a lying shit, out only for himself.

    I felt sorry for May - she was an honourable person who perhaps made the wrong choices. i have nothing but contempt for Johnson.

    That trolley choice game should have a Johson option.
    Brazenly lying to Westminster about Partygate was the point of no return. There are certain naughty games you can play around the edges, but there has been a convention that coming to the House means you are telling it straight. It may only be a convention, but it is one which has the power to destroy careers. As we are witnessing.

    My position this year has been entirely based upon this convention being sacrosanct.
    I think you can get away with one or two lies to Parliament, but not endless lies, and you can't get away - these days - with covering up for sex offenders.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    The committee chair basically seemed to say "we'll get to the good bit at the end".

    How many people will have resigned from his government by then? 5? 10?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Johnson in front of liason committee on Sky

    BigDog certainly has big balls!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Applicant said:

    Selebian said:

    FPT

    Pro_Rata said:

    biggles said:

    eek said:

    If anyone has 5 minutes to kill try https://neal.fun/absurd-trolley-problems/

    I killed 54 people ..

    55

    Now what pearls of wisdom have I missed?
    68. Always was a bastard.
    52. Anyone below 50?
    79. So there.

    (I fairly consistently choose do nothing unless the choice is human versus non-human or no deaths for doing something. One exception was diverting the trolley to save best friend.)

    And I was so busy killing them all that I missed the start of the new thread :disappointed:
    I got 72, some lobsters and some robots. I killed my best friend because he wouldn't want me to kill five people on his behalf.

    I destroyed my life savings (trivial decision, I don't have any worth the name) and shamelessly took the bribe...
    I got 94. I am clearly a psychopath and need to embrace this new revelation.
    I got less than half that by being a rigorous neoDarwinist and Hamiltonian. Very striking discrepancy!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:
    ...which is around 6600 feet.
    i checked the map, and I am 90% sure I can see the highest peaks of the “Accursed Mountains” on the Albanian border. They are about 60 miles away
    That's 100km not 100 miles (which is 160km)...
    As I said before. “100 miles” was an oratorical flourish, I had no true idea

    But I can see a long way

    The Accursed Mountains do look quite ominous
    Ah, now all bets are off if there are mountains in the background.

    Where's the furthest you can see in the UK? There's a few views across the Irish Sea which must be 100 miles. I reckon you can see Northern Ireland from the top of Scafell Pike on a clear day, not that I've ever had a clear day at the top of Scafell Pike. Few such places have restaurants though, even mediocre ones.
    I have seen Ireland (Wicklow) from Carnedd Llewellyn in Snowdonia. I believe I've also seen the Cheviots from the Cairngorms (in mid winter), which is over 100 miles. Might even have a photograph of that one.

    But apparently the longest possible view in the UK is Snowdon from The Merrick in the Scottish Borders, which is 144 miles. The reverse is apparently not possible as you cannot pick the summit out from the foreground.

    Some information here (old fashioned website!)
    http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/

    Brilliant. Whimsical question to definitive answer in, what, 15 minutes?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    Without that damned virus, he would have gone 18 months ago...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Gove was the man in the grey suit in the end?
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Johnson in front of liason committee on Sky

    BigDog certainly has big balls!
    You may have to use the past tense soon.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    He always was completely inappropriate. You are just clutching at your Brexit straw. People like you are the reason the country is in this fucked up mess. Sorry to spoil your day, Barty, but you have no judgement. Anyone who ever thought a lying philandering lazy fat incompetent oaf like Johnson was suitable for our highest position in the land has no judgement, or at the very kindest assessment has a massive blind spot. There were other people who could have pretended to believe in Brexit who would have stood a chance of delivering it. Even Gove was a better prospect; a complete tosser but at least he is competent.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Boris's epitaph will be that he got all the big calls right.

    But treated every other call with utter contempt.

    Only if 'Getting Brexit Done' is
    1. considered to be correct (NI Protocol)
    2. considered to be a good thing.
    Neither of these is likely to be the case.
    "Getting Brexit Done" was required, for the political system to work again. It spent 2 years completely derailing Westminster.
    ... and left us with many moderate and competent Tory MPs being ousted and ministers being chosen for their Brexit views rather than competence.
    Dorries, Braverman etc wouldn't be in any cabinet other than Boris's.
    That's what happens when people try to overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris's epitaph will be that he got all the big calls right.

    But treated every other call with utter contempt.

    OPatz was a big call. And he fucked it up.

    Pincher was a big call. And it ended him.
    I'll give Johnson appointing Kate Bingham as a call he got right...
    The Kate Bingham who said we wouldn't want to vaccinate the whole adult population because the risk of side effects was too great?

    If that was one of his good calls, I'd hate to consider the bad ones!
    OK, so I can't give him any credit in that case.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,633
    He knows the game is up.
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:
    ...which is around 6600 feet.
    i checked the map, and I am 90% sure I can see the highest peaks of the “Accursed Mountains” on the Albanian border. They are about 60 miles away
    That's 100km not 100 miles (which is 160km)...
    As I said before. “100 miles” was an oratorical flourish, I had no true idea

    But I can see a long way

    The Accursed Mountains do look quite ominous
    Ah, now all bets are off if there are mountains in the background.

    Where's the furthest you can see in the UK? There's a few views across the Irish Sea which must be 100 miles. I reckon you can see Northern Ireland from the top of Scafell Pike on a clear day, not that I've ever had a clear day at the top of Scafell Pike. Few such places have restaurants though, even mediocre ones.
    I have seen Ireland (Wicklow) from Carnedd Llewellyn in Snowdonia. I believe I've also seen the Cheviots from the Cairngorms (in mid winter), which is over 100 miles. Might even have a photograph of that one.

    But apparently the longest possible view in the UK is Snowdon from The Merrick in the Scottish Borders, which is 144 miles. The reverse is apparently not possible as you cannot pick the summit out from the foreground.

    Some information here (old fashioned website!)
    http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/

    Brilliant. Whimsical question to definitive answer in, what, 15 minutes?
    There's a chance, given the source, that it could be flat-earther propaganda.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Gove was the man in the grey suit in the end?

    Perhaps, but ignored. Johnson hasn't called it quits yet. What happens when the men in grey suits are rebuffed?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    Alternatively, run the candidates past a pb.com panel.

    "No....next....no....next...are you out of your tiny minds?....."
    Please, oh please, could I be on that panel?
    Damn it, your the Chair!
    Oh good.

    Hours of fun!




  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    Has the Liaison Committee met yet? And if so, has the PM turned up to it?

    Yes and live now
    So there'll be no resignation for a couple of hours. Which could be an uncomfortable couple of hours for the Prime Minister!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    Applicant said:

    Selebian said:

    FPT

    Pro_Rata said:

    biggles said:

    eek said:

    If anyone has 5 minutes to kill try https://neal.fun/absurd-trolley-problems/

    I killed 54 people ..

    55

    Now what pearls of wisdom have I missed?
    68. Always was a bastard.
    52. Anyone below 50?
    79. So there.

    (I fairly consistently choose do nothing unless the choice is human versus non-human or no deaths for doing something. One exception was diverting the trolley to save best friend.)

    And I was so busy killing them all that I missed the start of the new thread :disappointed:
    I got 72, some lobsters and some robots. I killed my best friend because he wouldn't want me to kill five people on his behalf.

    I destroyed my life savings (trivial decision, I don't have any worth the name) and shamelessly took the bribe...
    I got 94. I am clearly a psychopath and need to embrace this new revelation.
    I stopped doing it when I had to decide between my life savings and killing 5 people and didn't like I hesitated. It upset me so I stopped.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    You exemplify perfectly the sort of person who still does not get it.

    He was not the right person.

    He got Brexit "done" (not that it is)
    Yes, it is - the logjam in parliament (caused by hundreds of MPs refusing to accept the people's verdict) has been broken and the UK has left the EU.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154

    Applicant said:

    Selebian said:

    FPT

    Pro_Rata said:

    biggles said:

    eek said:

    If anyone has 5 minutes to kill try https://neal.fun/absurd-trolley-problems/

    I killed 54 people ..

    55

    Now what pearls of wisdom have I missed?
    68. Always was a bastard.
    52. Anyone below 50?
    79. So there.

    (I fairly consistently choose do nothing unless the choice is human versus non-human or no deaths for doing something. One exception was diverting the trolley to save best friend.)

    And I was so busy killing them all that I missed the start of the new thread :disappointed:
    I got 72, some lobsters and some robots. I killed my best friend because he wouldn't want me to kill five people on his behalf.

    I destroyed my life savings (trivial decision, I don't have any worth the name) and shamelessly took the bribe...
    I got 94. I am clearly a psychopath and need to embrace this new revelation.
    I just reframed every question so that it was Boris Johnson on the other track, and it suddenly was much easier to answer.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    The committee chair basically seemed to say "we'll get to the good bit at the end".

    How many people will have resigned from his government by then? 5? 10?
    Sky now have a handy "Govt. Resignations" caption/graphic on screen, so we can see as it inexorably ticks up.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited July 2022
    Question now is the manner of his departure. I’m expecting it to be characterised by Trumpian gracelessness and empty self-justification, but am willing to be pleasantly surprised. It really would be better for the country, if for once, he quietly accepted that it is right that he should go.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749

    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris's epitaph will be that he got all the big calls right.

    But treated every other call with utter contempt.

    OPatz was a big call. And he fucked it up.

    Pincher was a big call. And it ended him.
    I'll give Johnson appointing Kate Bingham as a call he got right...
    The Kate Bingham who said we wouldn't want to vaccinate the whole adult population because the risk of side effects was too great?

    If that was one of his good calls, I'd hate to consider the bad ones!
    Did she specifically say that? And when? Often population effects only become clear after much wider use (as in the AZ clotting problem) as 1 in 10,000 odds don't show up in trial data that well.
    Yes, of course she said that.

    And why one wouldn't want to vaccinate against a disease with around 1% infection fatality rate, because of side effects that didn't show up in a trial of 30-40,000 people is still a complete mystery to me. God knows what a mess we'd still be in now if her advice then had been followed.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It feels like it is all over for the PM now, one way or another. But it is worth pausing to consider what a dramatic fall from grace it is. In political terms, it is only 5 minutes since he won his party a large majority. It is unprecedented, certainly in modern times.
    https://twitter.com/tombradby/status/1544681661366943744

    He won the Tories their biggest majority since Thatcher in 1987 in 2019 and they will now likely have to wait another 30 years to match it
    Then again, we may have electoral reform and any one party would then struggle to win a majority ever again.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories now telling me they expect one of Boris Johnson's inner circle, possibly Canzini, to tell him it's time to stop. PM isn't quite there psychologically, they think, but needs a hand on the shoulder from someone who he trusts.
    https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/1544672872530153476

    The fundamentally untrustworthy do not trust anyone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    Alternatively, run the candidates past a pb.com panel.

    "No....next....no....next...are you out of your tiny minds?....."
    the problem there is, is there anyone really suitable? Remember Boris got rid of a lot of the sane options back in 2019 when he withdraw the whip and then called an election...
    We can argue for ever about the sanity of a Conservative MP - a CONSERVATIVE MP - trying to block Brexit by ever more tortuous schemes and manoeuvres.

    I can't say I miss them.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Has the Liaison Committee met yet? And if so, has the PM turned up to it?

    He is so incompetent that he has forgotten to liaise with them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,633
    edited July 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    Alternatively, run the candidates past a pb.com panel.

    "No....next....no....next...are you out of your tiny minds?....."
    Please, oh please, could I be on that panel?
    Damn it, your the Chair!
    Oh good.

    Hours of fun!

    I've updated some of my AML worksheets and here's one question you will like.

    A client has given you hundreds of thousands of pounds in suitcases which you accept, are you

    1) The Prince of Wales

    2) Committing an AML regulation violation

    3) Both
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811

    He knows the game is up.

    What's idiotic is that if he'd resigned last night he'd have been able to set the timetable for his own leaving to go beyond Theresa May's tenure. Now I'm not so sure. Everything he does is about surviving until tomorrow and now he'll be removed tomorrow.
  • .
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    You exemplify perfectly the sort of person who still does not get it.

    He was not the right person.

    He got Brexit "done" (not that it is) by lying. And those lies have poisoned and are continuing to poison the Tory party and British politics generally. Until that poison is drained and those lies confronted and truth spoken politics - and the Tory party - in particular will continue to circle the drain and disappear down it.
    I get it, but I disagree with you. By 2016 and 2019 all major politicians had lied on the subject of Europe. Too many politicians think their own white lies are OK if it furthers their agenda and Boris may be unique int the volume of them, but not the telling of them. Blair, Brown, Cameron, Clegg, Corbyn, Starmer, Grieve etc all told outright lies on the subject of Europe.

    That is one reason why people voted for Brexit, because they were fed up of the lies, and then politicians opposed to Brexit lied their way into trying to frustrate how people had voted - so Boris was the right person regrettably to resolve that dilemma - like the famous saying of Nixon to China.

    However, we aren't in 2019 anymore. Nixon's gone to China, Brexit is done, there is no reason to keep Nixon on now. Dealing with the poison is the priority now. Time to put the lies behind us, get rid of Boris, and try to rebuild.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    He always was completely inappropriate. You are just clutching at your Brexit straw. People like you are the reason the country is in this fucked up mess. Sorry to spoil your day, Barty, but you have no judgement. Anyone who ever thought a lying philandering lazy fat incompetent oaf like Johnson was suitable for our highest position in the land has no judgement, or at the very kindest assessment has a massive blind spot. There were other people who could have pretended to believe in Brexit who would have stood a chance of delivering it. Even Gove was a better prospect; a complete tosser but at least he is competent.

    Talking of f8cked up messes, checked out the mighty euro in the currency markets recently?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    It has been a privilege to be a PPS for a short term in the DLUHC department and steer important reforms through for not just my constituency but the wider country.

    My statement on the situation can be seen on my Facebook page here.

    https://www.facebook.com/100058078118504/posts/pfbid0N7mRbg8P6ZpuTkzfWWfX3TnXQctcu2F6vfKG4YpsdLGxJoCvbVTzGd8X3QmM3UhTl/?d=n https://twitter.com/duncancbaker/status/1544685122376679424/photo/1
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    So, who will be interim PM if he does flounce?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    dixiedean said:

    Anyone seen Comical Ali, sorry HYUFD today? lols.

    Probably offline for a software upgrade...
    Preparing to re-generate as an uber-loyal fan of whoever the Hell the Tory Party serves up next.
    He might surprise - he's talked about junking an election winner leading to GE losses, of 'loyalists' continuing to fight even if Boris is removed - he might be a Borisite first and a Tory second after all
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Applicant said:

    Selebian said:

    FPT

    Pro_Rata said:

    biggles said:

    eek said:

    If anyone has 5 minutes to kill try https://neal.fun/absurd-trolley-problems/

    I killed 54 people ..

    55

    Now what pearls of wisdom have I missed?
    68. Always was a bastard.
    52. Anyone below 50?
    79. So there.

    (I fairly consistently choose do nothing unless the choice is human versus non-human or no deaths for doing something. One exception was diverting the trolley to save best friend.)

    And I was so busy killing them all that I missed the start of the new thread :disappointed:
    I got 72, some lobsters and some robots. I killed my best friend because he wouldn't want me to kill five people on his behalf.

    I destroyed my life savings (trivial decision, I don't have any worth the name) and shamelessly took the bribe...
    I got 94. I am clearly a psychopath and need to embrace this new revelation.
    Running it again I managed to get 35 - which I suspect is the lowest possible score.

    Although technically the score is going to be 40 as the lobsters will now be boiled alive rather than dying first.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,633
    edited July 2022
    RobD said:

    So, who will be interim PM if he does flounce?

    Theresa May.

    Note - We don't have interim PMs, we have full fat PMs, no acting Presidents like those treasonous colonials in America.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    28
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    .

    RobD said:

    So, who will be interim PM if he does flounce?

    Theresa May.

    Note - We don't have interim PMs, we have full fat PMs, know acting Presidents like those treasonous colonials in America.
    Are we ready for strong ‘n stable leadership?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    Alternatively, run the candidates past a pb.com panel.

    "No....next....no....next...are you out of your tiny minds?....."
    Please, oh please, could I be on that panel?
    Damn it, your the Chair!
    Oh good.

    Hours of fun!

    I've updated some of my AML worksheets and here's one question you will like.

    A client has given you hundreds of thousands of pounds in suitcases which you accept, are you

    1) The Prince of Wales

    2) Committing an AML violation

    3) Both
    You forgot option 4) - a total fucking idiot with such poor judgment that you shouldn't be allowed to cross the street unaided.

    Your final option then becomes All of the Above.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    Alternatively, run the candidates past a pb.com panel.

    "No....next....no....next...are you out of your tiny minds?....."
    Please, oh please, could I be on that panel?
    Damn it, your the Chair!
    Oh good.

    Hours of fun!

    I've updated some of my AML worksheets and here's one question you will like.

    A client has given you hundreds of thousands of pounds in suitcases which you accept, are you

    1) The Prince of Wales

    2) Committing an AML violation

    3) Both
    The Prince of Wales doesn't have clients so on that technicality it's 2 rather than 3.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,633
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    Alternatively, run the candidates past a pb.com panel.

    "No....next....no....next...are you out of your tiny minds?....."
    Please, oh please, could I be on that panel?
    Damn it, your the Chair!
    Oh good.

    Hours of fun!

    I've updated some of my AML worksheets and here's one question you will like.

    A client has given you hundreds of thousands of pounds in suitcases which you accept, are you

    1) The Prince of Wales

    2) Committing an AML violation

    3) Both
    You forgot option 4) - a total fucking idiot with such poor judgment that you shouldn't be allowed to cross the street unaided.

    Your final option then becomes All of the Above.
    I'll update the worksheet right now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    May had a lot of resignations, but they were about policy differences, not merely that she was untrustworthy. Corbyn had about as many but that demonstrates why you shouldn't survive it even if you can.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    MISTY said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    He always was completely inappropriate. You are just clutching at your Brexit straw. People like you are the reason the country is in this fucked up mess. Sorry to spoil your day, Barty, but you have no judgement. Anyone who ever thought a lying philandering lazy fat incompetent oaf like Johnson was suitable for our highest position in the land has no judgement, or at the very kindest assessment has a massive blind spot. There were other people who could have pretended to believe in Brexit who would have stood a chance of delivering it. Even Gove was a better prospect; a complete tosser but at least he is competent.

    Talking of f8cked up messes, checked out the mighty euro in the currency markets recently?
    If you are suggesting I was ever in favour of us joining the Euro you are laughably off beam.
  • Simon_PeachSimon_Peach Posts: 424
    May I just say, and I’m sure that @HYUFD will heartily agree, what a pleasure it is to have an Education Secretary who went to a comprehensive school and is on record as being wholly opposed to Grammar schools… long may it last…
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    IanB2 said:

    28

    Is that resignations or your trolley dilemma score?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    RobD said:

    So, who will be interim PM if he does flounce?

    Theresa May.

    Note - We don't have interim PMs, we have full fat PMs, know acting Presidents like those treasonous colonials in America.
    OMG. I just checked my next PM board and it seems I have sprinkled bets all over the place in last year or so.

    With one on May - big pay out.

    Although I suspect BF will pull some kind of stunt about interim not counting even though the rules appear clear.

    Bizarrely, I seem to have put £2 on Ken Clarke back in January at 1000/1, and i can't remember why.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    RobD said:

    So, who will be interim PM if he does flounce?

    Raab unless he is planning to run for leader.

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    Alternatively, run the candidates past a pb.com panel.

    "No....next....no....next...are you out of your tiny minds?....."
    Please, oh please, could I be on that panel?
    Damn it, your the Chair!
    Oh good.

    Hours of fun!

    I've updated some of my AML worksheets and here's one question you will like.

    A client has given you hundreds of thousands of pounds in suitcases which you accept, are you

    1) The Prince of Wales

    2) Committing an AML violation

    3) Both
    You forgot option 4) - a total fucking idiot with such poor judgment that you shouldn't be allowed to cross the street unaided.

    Your final option then becomes All of the Above.
    [treason?] Is that not covered by option 1? [/treason?]
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris's epitaph will be that he got all the big calls right.

    But treated every other call with utter contempt.

    OPatz was a big call. And he fucked it up.

    Pincher was a big call. And it ended him.
    Totally true, but partygate was wot did it. There is visceral anger about it in the nation at large.

    And their first instinct was to LIE to parliament about it.

    Counterfactuals are shit because they can't be proved, but imagine a world where the hand went up and Johnson said - this is what happened, it was wrong, I'm sorry, etc. Rather than trying to front it out. Who knows.

    But you can't change who you are. He has said that just last week. We were warned. He is a lying shit, out only for himself.

    I felt sorry for May - she was an honourable person who perhaps made the wrong choices. i have nothing but contempt for Johnson.

    That trolley choice game should have a Johson option.
    I really do not detect a lot of visceral anger about partygate apart from in the political fraternity.

    I suspect there was a lot of synthetic anger about that.

    There is more anger about the cost of living crisis. That is going to doom the whole government not just Boris.
    Odd - I get a lot of anger from people about partygate from non- political people.
    Non-political people are probably less cynical than those of us experienced in politicians' doings, and therefore are probably more surprised that the politicians didn't follow the pointless rules.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    .

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    You exemplify perfectly the sort of person who still does not get it.

    He was not the right person.

    He got Brexit "done" (not that it is) by lying. And those lies have poisoned and are continuing to poison the Tory party and British politics generally. Until that poison is drained and those lies confronted and truth spoken politics - and the Tory party - in particular will continue to circle the drain and disappear down it.
    I get it, but I disagree with you. By 2016 and 2019 all major politicians had lied on the subject of Europe. Too many politicians think their own white lies are OK if it furthers their agenda and Boris may be unique int the volume of them, but not the telling of them. Blair, Brown, Cameron, Clegg, Corbyn, Starmer, Grieve etc all told outright lies on the subject of Europe.

    That is one reason why people voted for Brexit, because they were fed up of the lies, and then politicians opposed to Brexit lied their way into trying to frustrate how people had voted - so Boris was the right person regrettably to resolve that dilemma - like the famous saying of Nixon to China.

    However, we aren't in 2019 anymore. Nixon's gone to China, Brexit is done, there is no reason to keep Nixon on now. Dealing with the poison is the priority now. Time to put the lies behind us, get rid of Boris, and try to rebuild.
    We are still lying to ourselves about Europe only now we're lying to ourselves about Brexit. Only when we confront those lies can we find a way forward. This is not about reversing the decision in any sense. It has been made. But we cannot find a sensible way forward until we realise that we are deluding ourselves about what Brexit means for us. We need to be honest about what it means. Then we can try and find a way forward.

    I do not see that honesty yet - either in the Tories or, frankly, in Labour. So I think the European question will continue to gnaw away at our politics with baleful consequences for us all.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    RobD said:

    So, who will be interim PM if he does flounce?

    Theresa May.

    Note - We don't have interim PMs, we have full fat PMs, know acting Presidents like those treasonous colonials in America.
    OMG. I just checked my next PM board and it seems I have sprinkled bets all over the place in last year or so.

    With one on May - big pay out.

    Although I suspect BF will pull some kind of stunt about interim not counting even though the rules appear clear.

    Bizarrely, I seem to have put £2 on Ken Clarke back in January at 1000/1, and i can't remember why.

    You were pished?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    Johnson in front of liason committee on Sky

    BigDog certainly has big balls!
    You may have to use the past tense soon.
    A trip to the vet? Should have been done a few years ago - would have saved a lot of bother.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories now telling me they expect one of Boris Johnson's inner circle, possibly Canzini, to tell him it's time to stop. PM isn't quite there psychologically, they think, but needs a hand on the shoulder from someone who he trusts.
    https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/1544672872530153476

    The fundamentally untrustworthy do not trust anyone.
    iirc that the biographers have said the only person he ever listened to about these things was Marina, the second wife.
  • Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    He always was completely inappropriate. You are just clutching at your Brexit straw. People like you are the reason the country is in this fucked up mess. Sorry to spoil your day, Barty, but you have no judgement. Anyone who ever thought a lying philandering lazy fat incompetent oaf like Johnson was suitable for our highest position in the land has no judgement, or at the very kindest assessment has a massive blind spot. There were other people who could have pretended to believe in Brexit who would have stood a chance of delivering it. Even Gove was a better prospect; a complete tosser but at least he is competent.
    I have judgement, just different priorities to you. My #1 priority being that democracy must be respected - if Jeremy Corbyn won the election I would rather see him in Downing Street, as much as I'd loathe that, than a military coup that removed him in favour of someone I would much prefer like David Cameron.

    Parliament removing the PM is entirely democratic. Boris has served his purpose and Parliament can now remove him.

    If I had a time machine back to 2019, knowing everything I know now, I would still support Boris all over again. He was right for then, but then is not now.

    Corbyn is gone. Brexit is done. Article 50 quagmire is over. All that remains is Boris, and Boris can fuck right off now the rest is gone.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    MISTY said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    He always was completely inappropriate. You are just clutching at your Brexit straw. People like you are the reason the country is in this fucked up mess. Sorry to spoil your day, Barty, but you have no judgement. Anyone who ever thought a lying philandering lazy fat incompetent oaf like Johnson was suitable for our highest position in the land has no judgement, or at the very kindest assessment has a massive blind spot. There were other people who could have pretended to believe in Brexit who would have stood a chance of delivering it. Even Gove was a better prospect; a complete tosser but at least he is competent.

    Talking of f8cked up messes, checked out the mighty euro in the currency markets recently?
    Would that be the mighty Euro that is trading at almost exactly it's one year average against Sterling?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    May I just say, and I’m sure that @HYUFD will heartily agree, what a pleasure it is to have an Education Secretary who went to a comprehensive school and is on record as being wholly opposed to Grammar schools… long may it last…

    Seconded!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    MaxPB said:

    He knows the game is up.

    What's idiotic is that if he'd resigned last night he'd have been able to set the timetable for his own leaving to go beyond Theresa May's tenure. Now I'm not so sure. Everything he does is about surviving until tomorrow and now he'll be removed tomorrow.
    He is the type of person who always hopes something will come up. If not there is always some totty that he can shag instead.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Could this be Johnson's 6/1/2020 but without the weaponry?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Game Gover.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Johnson in front of liason committee on Sky

    BigDog certainly has big balls!
    You may have to use the past tense soon.
    A trip to the vet? Should have been done a few years ago - would have saved a lot of bother.
    Rather ambiguous expression that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    This committee is utterly surreal. A prime minister in his final hours promising to hold meetings he will never get to hold about policies he will never get to implement. It’s bonkers.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1544687453889495040
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    He’s getting a real grilling from Tobias Elwood. I think he’s gonna throw his hat into the room with a view to settling for DefSec
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Where is HM?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    RobD said:

    So, who will be interim PM if he does flounce?

    Theresa May.

    Note - We don't have interim PMs, we have full fat PMs, no acting Presidents like those treasonous colonials in America.
    If he flounces we already have a DPM. Someone needs to explain to me how the Private Secretary to The Queen doesn't call in Raaaaab in that circumstance and instead calls the rejected former PM?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris's epitaph will be that he got all the big calls right.

    But treated every other call with utter contempt.

    OPatz was a big call. And he fucked it up.

    Pincher was a big call. And it ended him.
    He got many policy calls right (for many Tories and even some others).

    He got all else wrong
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    May I just say, and I’m sure that @HYUFD will heartily agree, what a pleasure it is to have an Education Secretary who went to a comprehensive school and is on record as being wholly opposed to Grammar schools… long may it last…

    Not very long by the look of things. She was obviously not taught at her comprehensive school that it is not a good idea to flirt with boys from Eton. It might just end up being a one night stand.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It feels like it is all over for the PM now, one way or another. But it is worth pausing to consider what a dramatic fall from grace it is. In political terms, it is only 5 minutes since he won his party a large majority. It is unprecedented, certainly in modern times.
    https://twitter.com/tombradby/status/1544681661366943744

    He won the Tories their biggest majority since Thatcher in 1987 in 2019 and they will now likely have to wait another 30 years to match it
    The first part is true. The second part is a pessimistic opinion, but if true it will be because of Boris. It is Boris (and those not acting against him) that have caused it. Under any other leader the Tories might well lose because of sheer longevity of the Tory govt, but might come back in 5 years. Boris may put them in the wilderness as you say, but it is Boris' fault.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    MISTY said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    He always was completely inappropriate. You are just clutching at your Brexit straw. People like you are the reason the country is in this fucked up mess. Sorry to spoil your day, Barty, but you have no judgement. Anyone who ever thought a lying philandering lazy fat incompetent oaf like Johnson was suitable for our highest position in the land has no judgement, or at the very kindest assessment has a massive blind spot. There were other people who could have pretended to believe in Brexit who would have stood a chance of delivering it. Even Gove was a better prospect; a complete tosser but at least he is competent.

    Talking of f8cked up messes, checked out the mighty euro in the currency markets recently?
    If you are suggesting I was ever in favour of us joining the Euro you are laughably off beam.
    What I am suggesting , respectfully, is that things are just as bad inside the EU as they are out of it and possibly much worse.

    The weakest EU economies are preventing the ECB from using interest rates to control inflation, and goodness knows where prices could get to there this winter as a result.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    This has all the drama and surrealism of a middle order batting collapse. Turn away for a few minutes and there's another one down.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Innovative new tactic from Fay Jones: doesn't quit her job as a PPS but says she will if PM is still in office tomorrow.

    Think that takes us to 28.5 resignations... https://twitter.com/TomLarkinSky/status/1544687845176184838/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Can read my statement here on why I am not able to offer my support to the Prime Minister any longer https://www.facebook.com/craig4nwarks
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    edited July 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    .

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    You exemplify perfectly the sort of person who still does not get it.

    He was not the right person.

    He got Brexit "done" (not that it is) by lying. And those lies have poisoned and are continuing to poison the Tory party and British politics generally. Until that poison is drained and those lies confronted and truth spoken politics - and the Tory party - in particular will continue to circle the drain and disappear down it.
    I get it, but I disagree with you. By 2016 and 2019 all major politicians had lied on the subject of Europe. Too many politicians think their own white lies are OK if it furthers their agenda and Boris may be unique int the volume of them, but not the telling of them. Blair, Brown, Cameron, Clegg, Corbyn, Starmer, Grieve etc all told outright lies on the subject of Europe.

    That is one reason why people voted for Brexit, because they were fed up of the lies, and then politicians opposed to Brexit lied their way into trying to frustrate how people had voted - so Boris was the right person regrettably to resolve that dilemma - like the famous saying of Nixon to China.

    However, we aren't in 2019 anymore. Nixon's gone to China, Brexit is done, there is no reason to keep Nixon on now. Dealing with the poison is the priority now. Time to put the lies behind us, get rid of Boris, and try to rebuild.
    We are still lying to ourselves about Europe only now we're lying to ourselves about Brexit. Only when we confront those lies can we find a way forward. This is not about reversing the decision in any sense. It has been made. But we cannot find a sensible way forward until we realise that we are deluding ourselves about what Brexit means for us. We need to be honest about what it means. Then we can try and find a way forward.

    I do not see that honesty yet - either in the Tories or, frankly, in Labour. So I think the European question will continue to gnaw away at our politics with baleful consequences for us all.
    Labour I believe (albeit I haven't seen the person I usually ask about such things for a while) that talking about Brexit is merely going to open up wounds and lose them potential votes. Best to ignore it at the next election and focus on other matters
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749

    May I just say, and I’m sure that @HYUFD will heartily agree, what a pleasure it is to have an Education Secretary who went to a comprehensive school and is on record as being wholly opposed to Grammar schools… long may it last…

    Very good, but what are the odds of it lasting more than a week or two?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,633

    RobD said:

    So, who will be interim PM if he does flounce?

    Theresa May.

    Note - We don't have interim PMs, we have full fat PMs, no acting Presidents like those treasonous colonials in America.
    If he flounces we already have a DPM. Someone needs to explain to me how the Private Secretary to The Queen doesn't call in Raaaaab in that circumstance and instead calls the rejected former PM?
    Same reason Nick Clegg wouldn't have become PM if David Cameron fell under a bus.

    The PM needs to command a majority of the Commons, I don't think Raab will get that.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Maybe it's just me but do we need all these junior Ministers no-one has ever heard of. What the fuck have they been doing all this time? What is the point of them?

    Aren't they the political equivalent of all those middle managers firms suddenly realised they didn't need during Covid and WFH?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    RobD said:

    So, who will be interim PM if he does flounce?

    Theresa May.

    Note - We don't have interim PMs, we have full fat PMs, no acting Presidents like those treasonous colonials in America.
    If he flounces we already have a DPM. Someone needs to explain to me how the Private Secretary to The Queen doesn't call in Raaaaab in that circumstance and instead calls the rejected former PM?
    The Palace would not want to call in someone who is planning to run for leader if there is a contest as it would provide them with a massive step-up in the campaign and the Queen must be seen to be neutral.

    There is a precedent when this nearly happened.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    kle4 said:

    He got many policy calls right (for many Tories and even some others).

    They are all going to be unpicked
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Could this be Johnson's 6/1/2020 but without the weaponry?

    No. He's not near that yet - his biggest threat of a suicidal general election blows up the Tories, but not the country. Starmer waltzes in very easily if he's prepared to push it that far.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    The Liaison Committee. Tobias Ellwood brought the PM back to his scorn about tanks from the previous committee meeting. Lists in painful detail all of the cuts that Johnson has made. Every weapons system and troop that we do not have any more.

    Johnson's response? We have spent huge amounts of money. Then when pressed further says "NATO think we are marvellous".

    He is a fool. Cannot accept reality even when it is groping male Tory spads in the Carlton Club.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris's epitaph will be that he got all the big calls right.

    But treated every other call with utter contempt.

    OPatz was a big call. And he fucked it up.

    Pincher was a big call. And it ended him.
    Totally true, but partygate was wot did it. There is visceral anger about it in the nation at large.

    And their first instinct was to LIE to parliament about it.

    Counterfactuals are shit because they can't be proved, but imagine a world where the hand went up and Johnson said - this is what happened, it was wrong, I'm sorry, etc. Rather than trying to front it out. Who knows.

    But you can't change who you are. He has said that just last week. We were warned. He is a lying shit, out only for himself.

    I felt sorry for May - she was an honourable person who perhaps made the wrong choices. i have nothing but contempt for Johnson.

    That trolley choice game should have a Johson option.
    Brazenly lying to Westminster about Partygate was the point of no return. There are certain naughty games you can play around the edges, but there has been a convention that coming to the House means you are telling it straight. It may only be a convention, but it is one which has the power to destroy careers. As we are witnessing.

    My position this year has been entirely based upon this convention being sacrosanct.
    It mortally wounded him even if he survived it initially. It weakened his ability to call on them to defend him again, though he treated them with such contempt he must have thought himself invincible afterwards.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    My letter of resignation as PPS to the Chancellor ⬇️ https://twitter.com/craig4monty/status/1544688168162713601/photo/1
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    Cyclefree said:

    Maybe it's just me but do we need all these junior Ministers no-one has ever heard of. What the fuck have they been doing all this time? What is the point of them?

    Aren't they the political equivalent of all those middle managers firms suddenly realised they didn't need during Covid and WFH?

    Patronage, surely. In a party which is always going on about cutting civil service jobs. Cobbett would not be impressed.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Scott_xP said:

    This committee is utterly surreal. A prime minister in his final hours promising to hold meetings he will never get to hold about policies he will never get to implement. It’s bonkers.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1544687453889495040

    Well, I guess even the Blessed Margaret had one or two final meetings that had to be ticked off before going.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,286
    Boris won't flounce. He's stay as acting PM during the leadership election, hoping to *just* pass Theresa May's tenure.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    The BBC quotes a "senior ally" of Johnson as giving him "full support" but adding "This is not sustainable."
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Once he goes the Tories' problems really start.

    What are they for? Who are they for?

    How do they reconcile their different constituencies?

    And how the hell do they persuade us to trust all these MPs and a new leader and Cabinet who up until recently were telling us to support the PM?

    Yes.
    No one else has the sheer chutzpah and bull to keep the coalition together.
    Penny is pretty though. So that ought to be enough, apparently.
    I have one wish. That all those Tory MPs and supporters who cheered Boris on and supported him and inflicted him on us and told off those of us who warned from the start what a useless dangerous and unfit person he was now shut up for a considerable period and reflect on their appalling judgment and try and learn some lessons and not expect to be praised for - finally - doing something that should have been done some time ago by anyone with a shred of decency and intelligence.

    We bloody told you so.

    We bloody told Labour so about Corbyn too.

    Perhaps the political parties could try finding someone with some basic integrity, humility and common-sense for a change instead of these arrogant uncivilised and malicious oafs they keep inflicting on us.
    There was no appalling judgement.

    Boris was the right person for the circumstances. We needed someone who could get us out of the quagmire of Article 50 and to get Brexit done. Boris was the only appropriate person to do that.

    If Boris is bad, then what does it say about the likes of Corbyn, Grieve, May, Hunt, Starmer and Swinson etc that Boris was the best person leftover for the job?

    The good thing about British politics though, unlike American politics, is that our leaders are not Presidents and are not elected dictators. Just as they can be put into power, they can also be removed from it. The circumstances that existed in 2019 that made Boris appropriate are done and dusted, they're no longer there. Boris's advantages have gone, his disadvantages are magnified, and so he's outlasted his welcome.

    Its time for him to go. Just because the alternatives in 2019 were worse, doesn't mean that he's good enough for 2022. The circumstances have moved on and he has to go.
    He always was completely inappropriate. You are just clutching at your Brexit straw. People like you are the reason the country is in this fucked up mess. Sorry to spoil your day, Barty, but you have no judgement. Anyone who ever thought a lying philandering lazy fat incompetent oaf like Johnson was suitable for our highest position in the land has no judgement, or at the very kindest assessment has a massive blind spot. There were other people who could have pretended to believe in Brexit who would have stood a chance of delivering it. Even Gove was a better prospect; a complete tosser but at least he is competent.

    Talking of f8cked up messes, checked out the mighty euro in the currency markets recently?
    If you are suggesting I was ever in favour of us joining the Euro you are laughably off beam.
    What I am suggesting , respectfully, is that things are just as bad inside the EU as they are out of it and possibly much worse.

    The weakest EU economies are preventing the ECB from using interest rates to control inflation, and goodness knows where prices could get to there this winter as a result.
    Possibly, but my objection to Brexit was that it was damaging and pointless. I have been proved right, just as I have been proved right on my judgement of Boris Johnson. As a right of centre person, I think I was probably in a minority of one holding the latter view on here at one time. I definitely am not correct on all things, but on those two, I will continue to say I told you so, and enjoy it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,633
    I will confess I do have a sliver of sympathy for Boris Johnson.

    For his entire life he has wanted to be PM and look at him now.

    But my sympathy is outweighed by the LOLS.
This discussion has been closed.