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It’s just like the 1990s – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    kinabalu said:

    Mr. G1, I hope F1 can return to being free-to-air, where it belongs.

    You think your favourite sport should be free to watch on tv then, Morris, do you?
    Public service broadcasting.
    You mean that's not how it works ?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I’m drinking in the billionaire‘s playground. Never seen so much overly unbuttoned white linen and silver chest hair; and that’s just me

    Hard to believe this place was communist about 30 years ago

    Did you see any of the famous pillboxes? Or have they been cleared away?
    Isn’t that Albania? I’m vaguely thinking of going there in my car. Tick off another country, why not

    I have about 2 weeks left of my odyssey
    Albania is remarkable. Still remnants of the Soviet/Tito-era but with a sense of rediscovering it's own past.

    And quite a lot of drugs and people smuggling.

    Swings and roundabouts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    OnboardG1 said:

    Given that our population pyramid is looking more like a population dadbod the idea of importing workers does not frighten or bother me. I don't want to see what happens when an increasingly small working-age population needs to support a large generation with complex needs and the political power to avoid any contribution. Frankly we need to smash the power of the NIMBYs. Completely gut the ability to object to new housing developments. Fuck your view, fuck your "village character", fuck your endless concern trolling. Pair that up with a legal requirement for developers to fund services (schools, GP surgeries, proper integrated community stuff) and a tax on land revaluation after usage change. Bang developer heads together and put a bullet in the NIMBYs, crash house prices into the ground and set up a relief fund funded the valuation tax to help out single home owners who suffer negative equity as a consequence.

    Not that I expect any party to do something that might hurt the asset holding class.

    Very overdone.

    If you want to know what may happen here, look at Germany, Italy or several other countries who have median population ages 5-8 years higher than the UK or France.

    For a European country we are well positioned on this one.

    As for the rest, a lot of it is in place and the housing market since 2010 has been far more stable than the mad increases in house prices under Blair.

    The current problem is that BJ - and probably all the rest - are too cowardly to do the housing market / property taxation reforms which will take out the free money and give us more reasonable house prices.

    Now is an excellent time to do it, as prices are up approx 20% in 2 years, so the risk of widespread negative equity is minimal apart from the extreme cases that will be puffed by the Mail, the Guardian and the BBC.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I’m drinking in the billionaire‘s playground. Never seen so much overly unbuttoned white linen and silver chest hair; and that’s just me

    Hard to believe this place was communist about 30 years ago

    Did you see any of the famous pillboxes? Or have they been cleared away?
    Isn’t that Albania? I’m vaguely thinking of going there in my car. Tick off another country, why not

    I have about 2 weeks left of my odyssey
    Surely you need to travel by taxi in Albania?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Zhou Guanyu discharged from medical centre.
    Quite astonishing really

    In amongst all that chaos, it’s great that a driver can basically walk away uninjured from an accident like that. The delay was for the extraction team to actually get to him in order to get him out safely. They lift out the driver in his seat, which acts as a spine board in case of serious injury. The car was on its side, and up against both the tyre barrier and the catch fence.

    (Snip)
    I have a little anecdote about that. The seat removal thing (in all FIA single-seat formula, not just F1) took a few years to bring in, because it required car/chassis changes. For one thing, the medics had to know *how* to remove the seat quickly. In fact, AIUI racing seats (single eater FIA) are *not* attached to the car nowadays; the harness and driver keeps them in place.

    So before that, the Prof had another system developed, which involved a board being slipped down behind a driver, another under his bum, and the two locked together. The two boards were then lifted out with the driver's spine in the same position it was in the car.

    It was developed by a couple of engineers at an F1 team, tested by all the teams, and some lower formula teams as well. The Prof told me it saved two or three drivers from serious back injuries in the first year.

    Safety is not just about fatalities; it is about avoiding life-changing injuries as well.
    Yes, the seat isn’t connected to the car it all, it sits on four pins that locate it in place, and it’s held in the car by the weight of the driver and very tight seat belts.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=NHGVai_4tpI
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=yBjY5eH8rGo

    I do recall the old solution of the interlocking spine boards - a typical F1 innovation, a version of which is used today by response teams to traffic accidents.
    Thanks - is it still used, and is that a development of the prof's work? If so I am *very* happy. He seemed proud of that little workaround.
    I’m not sure if it’s exactly the same, but it looks similar, interlocking boards that keep the patient steady while they’re being extracted from a confined space. I’ll try and find more information on it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    Leon said:

    It is one of the great ironies of New Labour that their Open Door immigration policies, designed to make Britain more relaxed and international (or "to rub the noses of the Right in diversity"), led pretty directly to Brexit: their worst nightmare

    If you sow the wind, you will reap the whirlwind.
    So Brexit WAS about not liking foreigners then.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    edited July 2022
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr. G1, I hope F1 can return to being free-to-air, where it belongs.

    You think your favourite sport should be free to watch on tv then, Morris, do you?
    Public service broadcasting.
    You mean that's not how it works ?
    Everyone's fav sport covered for free? If only. Those WERE the days though.
  • fencesitter2fencesitter2 Posts: 48
    edited July 2022
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Nobody of sound mind and good character thinks you're wrong. Piece of sadistic schoolmastering that was. Wrong side of tough love.
    Sadistic? Not really - I could live with getting 2/10 on a piece of homework. And it made me much more careful about punctuation in general (in all subjects) in a way that just having a word with me wouldn't have done.

    I suppose a different person might have been affected more deeply. But then maybe the teacher would have treated the matter differently if he had been dealing with a more sensitive person.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262

    Saw this comment about McKinsey benchmarking:

    'The real trick of McKinsey is being everywhere. If you are a corporate strategist, you can try to do the best you can with what your analysts tell you and your own data. But if you hire McKinsey you are sure their advice will be at least as good as the one they are giving your competitors. Of course they don’t make it obvious. They have internal shielding, privacy protection, the whole shebang. But you might get invited to be part of the benchmark which matters and their internal documentation pulls cleverly from all their cases. It’s subtle but hiring them is the closest you can get to a cartel without crossing the line. That’s why they are so expensive.'

    Would any PBer care to elaborate?

    That’s sounds like the “negative but positive “ pitch that McKinsey and the other big consultancies would like you to believe.

    Personally I think their advice is a bit like AI. Sounds awesome and produces some funky art (PowerPoint) but when you give it a real problem like fully autonomous driving, it fails.

    Their mind set seems to run on tram lines - all about outsourcing, turning your business into a hedge fund that owns IP. Despite that model having failed many, many times. Works for a bit - until you need new IP. And all your knowledge creators have been outsourced…
    Thanks for the info. Have you any companies in mind when you talk of dropping the in house researchers and suffering for it?
    Boeing are a classic of forgetting how to do their primary skill - creating new planes and manufacturing them.

    Also Boeing (again) and LockMart for losing all their skills in creating new rockets and space vehicles.
    To be fair to LockMart, they're not in the business of large rockets (deliberate bang rockets are a different matter). Their orbital rocket program went to ULA, who are still excellent (but expensive). And Tory Bruno totally owns Musk in the Twitter stakes. ;)

    Boeing's mucked up the SLS, and whilst the Orion capsule (made by LockMart) has had problems, it has been ready for yonks, whereas the SLS rocket has not been.
    They’ve achieved monumental failure in return for billions. Their only hope is that the FAA has bought them enough time to salvage a tiny portion of their dignity.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589
    edited July 2022
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    The PB physics teachers will be along in a minute but in sums, there are typically lots of points for working and maybe one or two for the correct answer. In the Sixty Symbols interviews with Nottingham physics professors, one of the laments is that new students from school are no longer used to writing answers in long form.

    But a more philosophical answer might involve stepping back to ask what is the purpose of education. Deducting marks in French worked: it inculcated proper punctuation. Whether it is the business of French or indeed physics teachers to instruct their pupils in how to write English is a question best left to Dominic Cummings.

    The final point is that only your mum cares whether you got 10/10 or 2/10 for any particular test. It is immaterial now and was almost as unimportant then.
    I'm not sure what you mean by long form. The answer should be written in the most appropriate format for which there are rules in Maths, Physics etc. Re marking I agree with how marking is done. It should be for the working primarily and not the answer. This is Physics or Maths being tested not arithmetic.

    It is not true that only your mum cares. Diligent students care and a teacher can quite easily demoralise a student by doing this. It is interesting then when marked properly such a thing is not marked down by examiners, so why this teacher thought it appropriate or people approve baffles me. For every person who has learnt a lesson for life another has been demoralised.

    A good French, Maths, Physics teacher will correct the punctuation/spelling/etc, but not deduct marks as that is not what is being tested. If it is persistent, i.e. there is a problem they should have a word or take it up with the English teacher. What they shouldn't do is humiliate or punish a student who has actually performed the task set perfectly. That would be a good way of putting off future mathematicians, engineers, physicists etc.

    There are time of course where a punctuation mistake or spelling mistake can be critical, in which case that is an error. In maths precision is essential, but the grammar is different and more precise.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    Saw this comment about McKinsey benchmarking:

    'The real trick of McKinsey is being everywhere. If you are a corporate strategist, you can try to do the best you can with what your analysts tell you and your own data. But if you hire McKinsey you are sure their advice will be at least as good as the one they are giving your competitors. Of course they don’t make it obvious. They have internal shielding, privacy protection, the whole shebang. But you might get invited to be part of the benchmark which matters and their internal documentation pulls cleverly from all their cases. It’s subtle but hiring them is the closest you can get to a cartel without crossing the line. That’s why they are so expensive.'

    Would any PBer care to elaborate?

    That’s sounds like the “negative but positive “ pitch that McKinsey and the other big consultancies would like you to believe.

    Personally I think their advice is a bit like AI. Sounds awesome and produces some funky art (PowerPoint) but when you give it a real problem like fully autonomous driving, it fails.

    Their mind set seems to run on tram lines - all about outsourcing, turning your business into a hedge fund that owns IP. Despite that model having failed many, many times. Works for a bit - until you need new IP. And all your knowledge creators have been outsourced…
    Thanks for the info. Have you any companies in mind when you talk of dropping the in house researchers and suffering for it?
    Boeing are a classic of forgetting how to do their primary skill - creating new planes and manufacturing them.

    Also Boeing (again) and LockMart for losing all their skills in creating new rockets and space vehicles.
    To be fair to LockMart, they're not in the business of large rockets (deliberate bang rockets are a different matter). Their orbital rocket program went to ULA, who are still excellent (but expensive). And Tory Bruno totally owns Musk in the Twitter stakes. ;)

    Boeing's mucked up the SLS, and whilst the Orion capsule (made by LockMart) has had problems, it has been ready for yonks, whereas the SLS rocket has not been.
    They’ve achieved monumental failure in return for billions. Their only hope is that the FAA has bought them enough time to salvage a tiny portion of their dignity.
    How have LockMart achieved 'monumental failure' ?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    10! for example ?

    Are you suggesting that @kjh is missing the point?
    1000,00 times yes
    I know you are all japping with me but I did say 'non meaningful'. Clearly meaningful errors matter. And as I think @leon has pointed out a full stop at the end of a para is non meaningful. 10! has a very specific meaning.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Given that our population pyramid is looking more like a population dadbod the idea of importing workers does not frighten or bother me. I don't want to see what happens when an increasingly small working-age population needs to support a large generation with complex needs and the political power to avoid any contribution. Frankly we need to smash the power of the NIMBYs. Completely gut the ability to object to new housing developments. Fuck your view, fuck your "village character", fuck your endless concern trolling. Pair that up with a legal requirement for developers to fund services (schools, GP surgeries, proper integrated community stuff) and a tax on land revaluation after usage change. Bang developer heads together and put a bullet in the NIMBYs, crash house prices into the ground and set up a relief fund funded the valuation tax to help out single home owners who suffer negative equity as a consequence.

    Not that I expect any party to do something that might hurt the asset holding class.

    Luckily, we don't need to enact any of your crazed Marxist nonsense

    Why? Technology

    See my posts earlier today. We are on the cusp of a mighty technological revolution, driven by AI (but also involving drones, robots, VR, WFH, self drive vehicles, the Metaverse, and more) which will soon make hundreds of millions of workers redundant. So the problem will be excess workers, not the opposite, and we will have imported 5 million people for no reason
    Lol. Marxism. You know when right-wingers are frightened when they do that flinch. I'm proposing to let the market do its thing. The most capitalist solution possible. Stop artificially dicking with the market and let supply and demand rip. Or are you worried your beloved little market might bite you in the arse for once?
    I'm not frightened. No party will enact your lunatic policies, as you yourself admit

    I am trying to calm your troubled soul, the robots are here to save us from our demographic crisis. And it will probably be a good thing for us and the planet (tho it will also be painful, and will destroy lots of jobs)

    Seriously, do some rabbit-holing on what AI and allied tech can already do, then extrapolate just a few years into the future. It is exhilarating but unnerving
    I think a lot of recent technological fads are bunkum from silicon valley airheads (NFTs, Metaverse and I suspect Crypto are all headed for the uppers).

    I absolutely agree with you on AI, I think it will have a significant effect on the world, but since I'm an engineer I'm very cynical that it will be as utopian as you do (I hope I'm wrong). AI is only as good as what you train it on, and a lot of datasets are crap. Garbage In, Garbage Out as the CS fraternity has always said. AI trained on useful data will be a genuine boon to the industries that can harness it. AI trained on rubbish will cause Very Big Problems.
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing... ;) Dunning-Kruger Syndrome is definitely a thing with some people
    Especially one in particular who posts on PB.
    Possibly, but we'd miss @StuartDickson if he left. How else would we know just how crazily outraged the Nats are getting?
    Tut tut, you know I didn't mean @StuartDickson.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Leon said:
    Are you sure that isn't a bog standard pool photograph?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    kyf_100 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    darkage said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Given that our population pyramid is looking more like a population dadbod the idea of importing workers does not frighten or bother me. I don't want to see what happens when an increasingly small working-age population needs to support a large generation with complex needs and the political power to avoid any contribution.

    On housing, frankly we need to smash the power of the NIMBYs. Completely gut the ability to object to new housing developments. Fuck your view, fuck your "village character", fuck your endless concern trolling. Pair that up with a legal requirement for developers to fund services (schools, GP surgeries, proper integrated community stuff) and a tax on land revaluation after usage change. Bang developer heads together and put a bullet in the NIMBYs, crash house prices into the ground and set up a relief fund funded the valuation tax to help out single home owners who suffer negative equity as a consequence.

    Not that I expect any party to do something that might hurt the asset holding class.

    This policy would be catastrophic. You just need to look at build costs to understand why. Build cost inflation is such that even building on green fields can quickly become unviable - that is even before you have tried to tax uplift. There would be no uplift to tax. A 100sqm house costs £200k to build (£2k/sqm) before the value of land, developer profit and planning gain is factored in to the equation. That is almost double what it was a decade ago but wage inflation has not risen in line with build cost inflation. Many families could not afford to buy a house even if it was sold to them at build cost.

    The basic problem is with increases in the cost of materials, skilled labour and the imposition of new regulation that affects housebuilding.


    That's very interesting. I didn't realise material costs had risen so much. What's behind it? Demand in East Asia?
    Mega supply chain problems due to Covid.

    However, there are definitely ways we can bring the costs of housing down, e.g. prefab/modular (to a much higher quality than it was back in the day).

    If I had my way, I would pick a dozen sites across the UK and turn them into low construction cost pre-fab Levittowns, nimbys be damned. The only thing I would change is that I think we need to build higher density. The idea of everyone having a sprawling detached with garden and white picket fence just isn't practical for the UK.
    These 'pre fab' solutions they serve the high end of the market and are more expensive than building with bricks. There are people in the UK who have built factories where houses can be made, but it is more expensive than the traditional form of construction.

    You can buy a static caravan for about £1k / sqm. But this is not a permanent structure and does not comply with building regulations. It falls apart and becomes uninhabitable after 20 years. You would just be building shanty towns.
    Can you point to an example of a prefab that would be of decent quality, please? Would be interested to see what it is like.
    There's loads of it around. Countryside are a massive housebuilder and have a factory in the midlands where they build houses off site, the capacity is 3500 a year. They look no different to regular blockwork housing. The driver isn't price, it is pace and quality.

    https://www.housingtoday.co.uk/news/countryside-to-spend-20m-on-new-modular-factory/5107161.article

    Thank you!
    Correct; it's nothing new. And building timber frame in a factory never stopped in Scotland afaik eg Stuart Milne Group. Though I see that Stuart Milne himself is retiring.

    Even down here Space4 have been doing offsite construction since 2000 in a large factory, and are now part of Persimmon.

    https://renegadeinc.com/corporate-timber-frame-time-bomb/

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment if Tory MPs do decide to remove Johnson as Tory MPs failed to remove Major in 1995, then today's ConHome survey has Wallace and then Mordaunt preferred to succeed him

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/03/our-survey-next-tory-leader-wallace-leads-mordaunt-by-two-votes-in-over-seven-hundred/

    I think the ConHome survey is right. It is my gut feeling, although you never know who might come out of leftfield.

    I think the scenario is different to 1995. Major wasn't the problem, it was the party. Currently Johnson is the problem (although the party isn't helping).
    Indeed.
    Although the comments of myself and DavidL still stand.
    Replace the PM and you get rid of the most egregious excesses.
    But. What precisely will the new person do exactly about anything? No one has outlined any alternative policies. Including the Opposition.
    So all the basic problems remain.
    Penny Mordaunt is campaigning for tax cuts.
    The UK has three great interrelated challenges:

    1. We have a graying population, an inverted population pyramid, and health care and pension costs are likely to persistently rise faster than GDP.

    2. We have been too dependent on borrowing from abroad to buy for goods from abroad. This means we've gone from a position where the world owed the UK money, to one where the UK owes the world money.

    3. Most Brits' savings are tied up in their homes. Regular saving has been eschewed, because why bother if you have £500,000 tied up in your house.

    "Tax cuts" is not a policy. It is a code for "I don't know what to do, but I'd sure like to live in Downing Street".

    Where are the Thatchers, the Howes, the Ridleys, the Josephs, the people who recognized the problem, and had the guts to tell people that solving it would not be easy?
    The UK is a gerontocracy built on "wealth" created through ever increasing house prices, to the detriment of working age people who can no longer afford to have kids. I will vote for whichever government of whichever stripe has the guts to tackle this head on. Continuing to inflate the ponzi with 50 year mortgages, subprime mortgages to people on benefits, etc, ain't it.
    Outside London and the Home counties where house prices are much cheaper and cost of living much lower that is not really the case
    Second homes are funded by London prices. Hence one reason for inflation of the housing market UK wide.

    And even in the NE of England a house is *average* 170K: average salary 27.5K - so on a 3 + 1 basis that means about 60K deposit. How realistic is that?
    Exactly and @HYUFD is not recognising the issue which is a nationwide problem
    Quite. It is a very crude calculation, but even a crude one can be very useful. And I should have said 'second homes and retirement homes', come to think of it.
    Another way of looking at this is that the model we have in our heads of the UK as a especially property owning democracy is
    actually not really true anymore.


    Going back to your original argument, Gordon Brown stoking a huge housing bubble through cheap borrowing and mass immigration must be the biggest factor in undoing the 'golden legacy' that New Labour took over.
    I don’t think Gordon Brown has much to do with it, and immigration has had less impact on household formation and demand than other factors.

    The issue has been crap planning policy leading to insufficient housebuilding, and low interest rates creating inflated house prices, speculation, and the rise of buy-to-let.
    Call me naive, but I am fairly sure that allowing 5m migrants into the country - the greatest immigration in UK history - probably has impinged, just a tad, on the shortage of decent housing

    If you let 15 people live in your house, you risk running out of bedrooms

    Vast countries like the USA, Canada or Australia can allow great waves of immigration. They can build entire new towns one after the other without wrecking the landscape

    We cannot. So the irresistible force of mass immigration meets the immovable object of English resistance to endless development, et voila
    It's like someone has gone in and carefully removed those full stops.

    Quite funky.
    It’s desperately sad.
    Punctuation as a mid-life crisis.

    Knowing, too, that he is a professional writer, he likely has to “go back” and remove those full stops. Which makes it worse.
    Lol. I don’t

    I tell you, once you get used to it, you’ll wonder why you ever put those weird full stops. At the end of paragraphs.

    Look. It says. I’ve finished. Full stop.

    Yes I can see you’ve finished that’s the end of the paragraph

    You don’t need them. And eschewing them is more elegant
    It's a bit self-consciously modish, in a way that ages you. Like when BartholomewRoberts comes over all Black Lives Matter. I mean surely the fact that a full stop might upset some spotty herbert should be considered a bonus?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    10! for example ?

    Are you suggesting that @kjh is missing the point?
    1000,00 times yes
    I know you are all japping with me but I did say 'non meaningful'. Clearly meaningful errors matter. And as I think @leon has pointed out a full stop at the end of a para is non meaningful. 10! has a very specific meaning.
    In some contexts

    If I say Boris will win in 2024! I bet you £10! I don't think many courts would interpret either number as a factorial
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    kyf_100 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    darkage said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Given that our population pyramid is looking more like a population dadbod the idea of importing workers does not frighten or bother me. I don't want to see what happens when an increasingly small working-age population needs to support a large generation with complex needs and the political power to avoid any contribution.

    On housing, frankly we need to smash the power of the NIMBYs. Completely gut the ability to object to new housing developments. Fuck your view, fuck your "village character", fuck your endless concern trolling. Pair that up with a legal requirement for developers to fund services (schools, GP surgeries, proper integrated community stuff) and a tax on land revaluation after usage change. Bang developer heads together and put a bullet in the NIMBYs, crash house prices into the ground and set up a relief fund funded the valuation tax to help out single home owners who suffer negative equity as a consequence.

    Not that I expect any party to do something that might hurt the asset holding class.

    This policy would be catastrophic. You just need to look at build costs to understand why. Build cost inflation is such that even building on green fields can quickly become unviable - that is even before you have tried to tax uplift. There would be no uplift to tax. A 100sqm house costs £200k to build (£2k/sqm) before the value of land, developer profit and planning gain is factored in to the equation. That is almost double what it was a decade ago but wage inflation has not risen in line with build cost inflation. Many families could not afford to buy a house even if it was sold to them at build cost.

    The basic problem is with increases in the cost of materials, skilled labour and the imposition of new regulation that affects housebuilding.


    That's very interesting. I didn't realise material costs had risen so much. What's behind it? Demand in East Asia?
    Mega supply chain problems due to Covid.

    However, there are definitely ways we can bring the costs of housing down, e.g. prefab/modular (to a much higher quality than it was back in the day).

    If I had my way, I would pick a dozen sites across the UK and turn them into low construction cost pre-fab Levittowns, nimbys be damned. The only thing I would change is that I think we need to build higher density. The idea of everyone having a sprawling detached with garden and white picket fence just isn't practical for the UK.
    These 'pre fab' solutions they serve the high end of the market and are more expensive than building with bricks. There are people in the UK who have built factories where houses can be made, but it is more expensive than the traditional form of construction.

    You can buy a static caravan for about £1k / sqm. But this is not a permanent structure and does not comply with building regulations. It falls apart and becomes uninhabitable after 20 years. You would just be building shanty towns.
    Can you point to an example of a prefab that would be of decent quality, please? Would be interested to see what it is like.
    There's loads of it around. Countryside are a massive housebuilder and have a factory in the midlands where they build houses off site, the capacity is 3500 a year. They look no different to regular blockwork housing. The driver isn't price, it is pace and quality.

    https://www.housingtoday.co.uk/news/countryside-to-spend-20m-on-new-modular-factory/5107161.article

    Thank you!
    Correct; it's nothing new. And building timber frame in a factory never stopped in Scotland afaik eg Stuart Milne Group. Though I see that Stuart Milne himself is retiring.

    Even down here Space4 have been doing offsite construction since 2000 in a large factory, and are now part of Persimmon.

    https://renegadeinc.com/corporate-timber-frame-time-bomb/

    Timber framed construction got a very bad rep. in the late 1970s and 1980s due to poor standards. It took two to three decades to recuperate some of that reputation. (I'm not saying none were built; just that it was not seen as a 'mass' construction method cf bricks and mortar).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    RobD said:
    I’ve told them before, that setting the password to ‘password’ was a bad idea.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    DavidL said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:


    I tell you, once you get used to it, you’ll wonder why you ever put those weird full stops. At the end of paragraphs.

    Look. It says. I’ve finished. Full stop.

    Yes I can see you’ve finished that’s the end of the paragraph

    You don’t need them. And eschewing them is more elegant

    When I was about 13, I had a homework task which consisted of some English sentences, numbered 1 to 10. The task was to translate them into French.

    My mark was 2 out of 10, because 8 of my sentences had no full stop. (The French was fine.)

    It worked - I have never missed off full stops since.

    Your teacher deserved a slap. He was an idiot.
    top trolling

    :smiley:
    Well I mean how petty. If I had been his Dad I would certainly have given the teacher a piece of my mind if it were in a meaningful exam.
    What an excellent teacher. Teaching.
    Not teaching, but demoralising a pupil. Easy enough to give him the marks for the actual task and remind him about his punctuation.
    But if he had done would his pupil have remembered it 20 years later? Not a chance. The job of the teacher is to make sure that the lesson is learned.

    My English teacher really didn't like my writing. I think the font was possibly best described as drunken spider on cocaine. His position was that if he couldn't read it, it didn't matter what it said. And he was right, however much I resented it at the time.
    I think there are better ways of doing it. If someone is a conscientious pupil it can be very demoralising. Because I was very good at Maths I was always called the professor by my maths teacher. He probably thought it harmless and funny, but it caused me issues with other pupils and teachers. Fortunately I wasn't really impacted by it, but I could have been.
    My wife had an accountancy teacher (at a very poor school) who would copy her answers, especially on management accounts so he could mark the rest of the class. Think yourself lucky.
    Having upset everyone by saying a certain teacher deserved a slap, your wife's teacher also deserved a slap and after that fired.

    Sorry about the lack of political correctness.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    edited July 2022
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Given that our population pyramid is looking more like a population dadbod the idea of importing workers does not frighten or bother me. I don't want to see what happens when an increasingly small working-age population needs to support a large generation with complex needs and the political power to avoid any contribution. Frankly we need to smash the power of the NIMBYs. Completely gut the ability to object to new housing developments. Fuck your view, fuck your "village character", fuck your endless concern trolling. Pair that up with a legal requirement for developers to fund services (schools, GP surgeries, proper integrated community stuff) and a tax on land revaluation after usage change. Bang developer heads together and put a bullet in the NIMBYs, crash house prices into the ground and set up a relief fund funded the valuation tax to help out single home owners who suffer negative equity as a consequence.

    Not that I expect any party to do something that might hurt the asset holding class.

    Luckily, we don't need to enact any of your crazed Marxist nonsense

    Why? Technology

    See my posts earlier today. We are on the cusp of a mighty technological revolution, driven by AI (but also involving drones, robots, VR, WFH, self drive vehicles, the Metaverse, and more) which will soon make hundreds of millions of workers redundant. So the problem will be excess workers, not the opposite, and we will have imported 5 million people for no reason
    Lol. Marxism. You know when right-wingers are frightened when they do that flinch. I'm proposing to let the market do its thing. The most capitalist solution possible. Stop artificially dicking with the market and let supply and demand rip. Or are you worried your beloved little market might bite you in the arse for once?
    I'm not frightened. No party will enact your lunatic policies, as you yourself admit

    I am trying to calm your troubled soul, the robots are here to save us from our demographic crisis. And it will probably be a good thing for us and the planet (tho it will also be painful, and will destroy lots of jobs)

    Seriously, do some rabbit-holing on what AI and allied tech can already do, then extrapolate just a few years into the future. It is exhilarating but unnerving
    I think a lot of recent technological fads are bunkum from silicon valley airheads (NFTs, Metaverse and I suspect Crypto are all headed for the uppers).

    I absolutely agree with you on AI, I think it will have a significant effect on the world, but since I'm an engineer I'm very cynical that it will be as utopian as you do (I hope I'm wrong). AI is only as good as what you train it on, and a lot of datasets are crap. Garbage In, Garbage Out as the CS fraternity has always said. AI trained on useful data will be a genuine boon to the industries that can harness it. AI trained on rubbish will cause Very Big Problems.
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing... ;) Dunning-Kruger Syndrome is definitely a thing with some people
    Especially one in particular who posts on PB.
    Possibly, but we'd miss @StuartDickson if he left. How else would we know just how crazily outraged the Nats are getting?
    Tut tut, you know I didn't mean @StuartDickson.
    Well, it's difficult to distinguish 'one poster in particular' from all the ones on here who have Dunning Kruger syndrome. Or it is for me as a teacher who gets repeatedly lectured on education by people who know nothing whatsoever about it. Honestly, some days it's as though the entire DfE is on here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:
    I’ve told them before, that setting the password to ‘password’ was a bad idea.
    I'm sure it was something far better than that.

    Like ArmyIsNo1.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
    I think PB needs to expand from just base 2 and 10. We have enough computer science on here to incorporate base 8 and 16 or how about going bold and trying 3 or 13
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    ohnotnow said:

    DavidL said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:


    I tell you, once you get used to it, you’ll wonder why you ever put those weird full stops. At the end of paragraphs.

    Look. It says. I’ve finished. Full stop.

    Yes I can see you’ve finished that’s the end of the paragraph

    You don’t need them. And eschewing them is more elegant

    When I was about 13, I had a homework task which consisted of some English sentences, numbered 1 to 10. The task was to translate them into French.

    My mark was 2 out of 10, because 8 of my sentences had no full stop. (The French was fine.)

    It worked - I have never missed off full stops since.

    Your teacher deserved a slap. He was an idiot.
    top trolling

    :smiley:
    Well I mean how petty. If I had been his Dad I would certainly have given the teacher a piece of my mind if it were in a meaningful exam.
    What an excellent teacher. Teaching.
    Not teaching, but demoralising a pupil. Easy enough to give him the marks for the actual task and remind him about his punctuation.
    But if he had done would his pupil have remembered it 20 years later? Not a chance. The job of the teacher is to make sure that the lesson is learned.

    My English teacher really didn't like my writing. I think the font was possibly best described as drunken spider on cocaine. His position was that if he couldn't read it, it didn't matter what it said. And he was right, however much I resented it at the time.
    Handwriting? You are showing your age, grandad. It is all typing and printing now; dictation and email even. I gather some American schools have stopped teaching joined-up writing.
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cursive-handwriting-instr_n_842069
    We were asked a long to a 'town hall' meeting with a new manager recently. He asked us all to bring a pen and paper. Most of us were casting around trying to even find a pen or bit of paper.
    The North Koreans have bought them all up.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27116092
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
    I think PB needs to expand from just base 2 and 10. We have enough computer science on here to incorporate base 8 and 16 or how about going bold and trying 3 or 13
    For my 40th birthday, Mrs J got me a cake with '28 hex' written on it. ;)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    I've done maths to degree level, and included some physics modules.
    What on God's green earth is "long form"
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    10! for example ?

    Are you suggesting that @kjh is missing the point?
    1000,00 times yes
    I know you are all japping with me but I did say 'non meaningful'. Clearly meaningful errors matter. And as I think @leon has pointed out a full stop at the end of a para is non meaningful. 10! has a very specific meaning.
    In some contexts

    If I say Boris will win in 2024! I bet you £10! I don't think many courts would interpret either number as a factorial
    Ah but I did specifically say in maths or physics. You would not use ! in maths or physics after a number to mean anything other than factorial.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    No because they said that last time.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,037
    What's missing isn't just 2 Unlimited, whoever they were.

    It's also having a political genius as Labour leader.

    If Labour had a Blair-like figure at its head, the Tories would be dead and buried. It is easy to forget now the huge advantage he got from the fawning coverage in most of the print, and virtually all the broadcast, media and how, for a while, he seemed to have a sixth sense of the public mood.

    Fortunately for the Conservatives, Labour have Sir Keir Starmer, at least for the moment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
    I think PB needs to expand from just base 2 and 10. We have enough computer science on here to incorporate base 8 and 16 or how about going bold and trying 3 or 13
    Not sure 16 is a good idea. Use that as a base and you'll be pounded.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
    I think PB needs to expand from just base 2 and 10. We have enough computer science on here to incorporate base 8 and 16 or how about going bold and trying 3 or 13
    What about octal? It seems to be in decline these days
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262

    Saw this comment about McKinsey benchmarking:

    'The real trick of McKinsey is being everywhere. If you are a corporate strategist, you can try to do the best you can with what your analysts tell you and your own data. But if you hire McKinsey you are sure their advice will be at least as good as the one they are giving your competitors. Of course they don’t make it obvious. They have internal shielding, privacy protection, the whole shebang. But you might get invited to be part of the benchmark which matters and their internal documentation pulls cleverly from all their cases. It’s subtle but hiring them is the closest you can get to a cartel without crossing the line. That’s why they are so expensive.'

    Would any PBer care to elaborate?

    That’s sounds like the “negative but positive “ pitch that McKinsey and the other big consultancies would like you to believe.

    Personally I think their advice is a bit like AI. Sounds awesome and produces some funky art (PowerPoint) but when you give it a real problem like fully autonomous driving, it fails.

    Their mind set seems to run on tram lines - all about outsourcing, turning your business into a hedge fund that owns IP. Despite that model having failed many, many times. Works for a bit - until you need new IP. And all your knowledge creators have been outsourced…
    Thanks for the info. Have you any companies in mind when you talk of dropping the in house researchers and suffering for it?
    Boeing are a classic of forgetting how to do their primary skill - creating new planes and manufacturing them.

    Also Boeing (again) and LockMart for losing all their skills in creating new rockets and space vehicles.
    To be fair to LockMart, they're not in the business of large rockets (deliberate bang rockets are a different matter). Their orbital rocket program went to ULA, who are still excellent (but expensive). And Tory Bruno totally owns Musk in the Twitter stakes. ;)

    Boeing's mucked up the SLS, and whilst the Orion capsule (made by LockMart) has had problems, it has been ready for yonks, whereas the SLS rocket has not been.
    They’ve achieved monumental failure in return for billions. Their only hope is that the FAA has bought them enough time to salvage a tiny portion of their dignity.
    How have LockMart achieved 'monumental failure' ?

    What have they achieved since Delta Clipper, in space launch, apart from cancelled programs, after billions spent?

    “It was tooooo hard….”

    Apart from running a company rebadging Russian rocket engines for a 100% markup, via a funky import company in Florida….

    Cry me a fucking river….

    Though they did put in plea to fund their comic hypersonics program in the latest Topgun.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    edited July 2022
    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    The fanatics of the SNP won't give up merely because they keep losing. Like Farage would have done, or Adonis, they will keep going until they get the right result, because they consider their view on what constitutes independence to be far more important than anything else.

    To misquote Tacitus, they would if necessary create a desolation and call it 'a sovereign state.'
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    No because they said that last time.
    But this time you could say "You had 2 goes in 10 years and the answer was 'No' both times"

    Personally, I would let them do it every year and add the cost of the referendum to their Council Tax. They would either stop doing it or secede....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:
    I wish I hadn't seen this.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,037
    edited July 2022
    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    Fine, except:

    - as the article notes, Cameron thought that holding a referendum on Scottish independence would settle the issue
    - Cameron also thought that holding a referendum on our EU membership would settle the issue
    - New Labour thought that introducing devolution would kill nationalism stone dead
    - various EU governments have held referenda, and not got the result they wanted. Only Scotland probably wouldn't accept being asked to vote again.

    Being too clever by half is always a risk for senior politicians with towering egos, i.e. virtually all of them. Sometimes it works, but surprisingly often it blows up in their, and everybody else's, faces.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    edited July 2022

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
    I think PB needs to expand from just base 2 and 10. We have enough computer science on here to incorporate base 8 and 16 or how about going bold and trying 3 or 13
    What about octal? It seems to be in decline these days
    I learned octal at university as a useful way of shortening binary, but I've never actually used it in anger. Hex is just easier.

    EDIT: My partner just pointed out chown 777 is a thing so yes I've used it in anger.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
    I think PB needs to expand from just base 2 and 10. We have enough computer science on here to incorporate base 8 and 16 or how about going bold and trying 3 or 13
    Remember that sexagesimal numbers are still in use. Are you going to posit that L/s/d is a superior currency system? Someone tried that a few weeks back ;)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    BBC: several people killed in Copenhagen shopping centre shooting.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    The fanatics of the SNP won't give up merely because they keep losing. Like Farage would have done, or Adonis, they will keep going until they get the right result, because they consider their view on what constitutes independence to be far more important than anything else.

    To misquote Tacitus, they would if necessary create a desolation and call it 'a sovereign state.'
    Giving up would mean the SNP disbanding. It would be a terrible psychological crisis. So they will never give up (and nor should they, if it’s what they believe) and, whatever they say at any referendum (“that’s it for 50 years”) they will be back within 9 months to have another go, and with another reason to do it

    Recall that immediately after their defeat in 2014 they were gunning for another vote (and that was before Brexit, so they had no “overwhelming reason”)

    This is why the Government is right to resist now, If they allow a vote they establish the principle that the SNP must always be indulged
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Andy_JS said:
    That in-depth report appears to be based on the views of four voters, of whom the youngest was 64. If that's a representative sample, I won't be moving to Tamworth.
    You wouldn't be moving to Tamworth anyway I dare say.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    While I have been arguing with you lot my dog has emptied my wallet over the garden and destroyed it and several cards and money.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
    I think PB needs to expand from just base 2 and 10. We have enough computer science on here to incorporate base 8 and 16 or how about going bold and trying 3 or 13
    Remember that sexagesimal numbers are still in use. Are you going to posit that L/s/d is a superior currency system? Someone tried that a few weeks back ;)
    Noooooo. I'm metric through and through
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That in-depth report appears to be based on the views of four voters, of whom the youngest was 64. If that's a representative sample, I won't be moving to Tamworth.
    You wouldn't be moving to Tamworth anyway I dare say.
    If you did, you'd be better off with a suburb - Wilnecote being the best of them. Like Sutton Coldfield but half the price.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    OnboardG1 said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
    I think PB needs to expand from just base 2 and 10. We have enough computer science on here to incorporate base 8 and 16 or how about going bold and trying 3 or 13
    What about octal? It seems to be in decline these days
    I learned octal at university as a useful way of shortening binary, but I've never actually used it in anger. Hex is just easier.

    EDIT: My partner just pointed out chown 777 is a thing so yes I've used it in anger.
    It would actually be chmod 777... unless you had a user profile named 777 ;)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Sean
    @_sn_n

    A FaceApp morph of every Liberal Democrat MP currently serving in the HoC"

    https://twitter.com/_sn_n/status/1543089787019706368
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    kjh said:

    While I have been arguing with you lot my dog has emptied my wallet over the garden and destroyed it and several cards and money.

    I laughed, if that helps?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    The fanatics of the SNP won't give up merely because they keep losing. Like Farage would have done, or Adonis, they will keep going until they get the right result, because they consider their view on what constitutes independence to be far more important than anything else.

    To misquote Tacitus, they would if necessary create a desolation and call it 'a sovereign state.'
    Giving up would mean the SNP disbanding. It would be a terrible psychological crisis. So they will never give up (and nor should they, if it’s what they believe) and, whatever they say at any referendum (“that’s it for 50 years”) they will be back within 9 months to have another go, and with another reason to do it

    Recall that immediately after their defeat in 2014 they were gunning for another vote (and that was before Brexit, so they had no “overwhelming reason”)

    This is why the Government is right to resist now, If they allow a vote they establish the principle that the SNP must always be indulged
    Aside from WilliamWallace1314@voteriggingbastards, who was gunning for a vote immediately after the defeat in 2014?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    The fanatics of the SNP won't give up merely because they keep losing. Like Farage would have done, or Adonis, they will keep going until they get the right result, because they consider their view on what constitutes independence to be far more important than anything else.

    To misquote Tacitus, they would if necessary create a desolation and call it 'a sovereign state.'
    Giving up would mean the SNP disbanding. It would be a terrible psychological crisis. So they will never give up (and nor should they, if it’s what they believe) and, whatever they say at any referendum (“that’s it for 50 years”) they will be back within 9 months to have another go, and with another reason to do it

    Recall that immediately after their defeat in 2014 they were gunning for another vote (and that was before Brexit, so they had no “overwhelming reason”)

    This is why the Government is right to resist now, If they allow a vote they establish the principle that the SNP must always be indulged
    Aside from WilliamWallace1314@voteriggingbastards, who was gunning for a vote immediately after the defeat in 2014?
    Alex Salmond:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmond-hints-second-independence-referendum-concession-speech
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    The fanatics of the SNP won't give up merely because they keep losing. Like Farage would have done, or Adonis, they will keep going until they get the right result, because they consider their view on what constitutes independence to be far more important than anything else.

    To misquote Tacitus, they would if necessary create a desolation and call it 'a sovereign state.'
    Giving up would mean the SNP disbanding. It would be a terrible psychological crisis. So they will never give up (and nor should they, if it’s what they believe) and, whatever they say at any referendum (“that’s it for 50 years”) they will be back within 9 months to have another go, and with another reason to do it

    Recall that immediately after their defeat in 2014 they were gunning for another vote (and that was before Brexit, so they had no “overwhelming reason”)

    This is why the Government is right to resist now, If they allow a vote they establish the principle that the SNP must always be indulged
    Aside from WilliamWallace1314@voteriggingbastards, who was gunning for a vote immediately after the defeat in 2014?
    Alex Salmond:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmond-hints-second-independence-referendum-concession-speech
    'At this stage'=gunning.

    Ok.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    While I have been arguing with you lot my dog has emptied my wallet over the garden and destroyed it and several cards and money.

    I laughed, if that helps?
    It does. You know I hold you all responsible don't you?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    The fanatics of the SNP won't give up merely because they keep losing. Like Farage would have done, or Adonis, they will keep going until they get the right result, because they consider their view on what constitutes independence to be far more important than anything else.

    To misquote Tacitus, they would if necessary create a desolation and call it 'a sovereign state.'
    Giving up would mean the SNP disbanding. It would be a terrible psychological crisis. So they will never give up (and nor should they, if it’s what they believe) and, whatever they say at any referendum (“that’s it for 50 years”) they will be back within 9 months to have another go, and with another reason to do it

    Recall that immediately after their defeat in 2014 they were gunning for another vote (and that was before Brexit, so they had no “overwhelming reason”)

    This is why the Government is right to resist now, If they allow a vote they establish the principle that the SNP must always be indulged
    Aside from WilliamWallace1314@voteriggingbastards, who was gunning for a vote immediately after the defeat in 2014?
    Alex Salmond:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmond-hints-second-independence-referendum-concession-speech
    Quite. Plus all the “we are the 45” cybernats. Literally the next day
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Diane Abbott claims Boris Johnson is ‘rumoured to like assaulting women’

    The Labour MP was speaking during a live episode of the BBC's Broadcasting House to discuss allegations surrounding Chris Pincher" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/03/diane-abbott-claims-boris-johnson-rumoured-like-assaulting-women/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    OnboardG1 said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Which raises the interesting question, is punctuation non-meaningful?
    Sometimes essential, usually very helpful, sometimes not.

    In maths it is usually essential or not
    Just the 10 options, is it?
    I think PB needs to expand from just base 2 and 10. We have enough computer science on here to incorporate base 8 and 16 or how about going bold and trying 3 or 13
    What about octal? It seems to be in decline these days
    I learned octal at university as a useful way of shortening binary, but I've never actually used it in anger. Hex is just easier.

    EDIT: My partner just pointed out chown 777 is a thing so yes I've used it in anger.
    It would actually be chmod 777... unless you had a user profile named 777 ;)
    chmod 777 : the thing you use when everything else fails. ;)

    And then watch your security disappear.

    (I am not a Unix bod.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    edited July 2022

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Nobody of sound mind and good character thinks you're wrong. Piece of sadistic schoolmastering that was. Wrong side of tough love.
    Sadistic? Not really - I could live with getting 2/10 on a piece of homework. And it made me much more careful about punctuation in general (in all subjects) in a way that just having a word with me wouldn't have done.

    I suppose a different person might have been affected more deeply. But then maybe the teacher would have treated the matter differently if he had been dealing with a more sensitive person.
    Ah fair enough. Teachers can psychologically wound though.

    When I was 13, in French class, I pretended I'd passed through Avignon on a family motoring holiday (don't know why) and my French teacher kind of sussed I really hadn't. So what he did was, he got me chatting - this was in front of the whole class - and worked it round to the bridge. Said we must have driven over that then, n'est ce pas?

    I said oui oui. Course. Notice anything? he said. Not really, I said. Then he told the class about the bridge and there was a picture available.

    Everybody sniggered.

    The shame of that is something I recall to this day (as you can see). And it was nearly 50 years
    ago.

    Teachers, they have to be careful.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Does Lukashecko actually want people to leave?


    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    7m
    The Belarusian Ministry of Transport Minsk has announced that it has asked Lithuania’s state-owned railway company LTG to relaunch passenger train services between Minsk and Vilnius.

    Lithuania has declared that it is out of the question.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1543673827913351168
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262
    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Does Lukashecko actually want people to leave?


    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    7m
    The Belarusian Ministry of Transport Minsk has announced that it has asked Lithuania’s state-owned railway company LTG to relaunch passenger train services between Minsk and Vilnius.

    Lithuania has declared that it is out of the question.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1543673827913351168

    Perhaps he's looking for a way out?

    We can but hope...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Scott MacFarlane
    @MacFarlaneNews
    Rep Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) tells CNN there are new witnesses who have come forward to Jan 6 Select Committee after the testimony of Cassidy Hutchinson

    https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1543587719300976642
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    Andy_JS said:

    BBC: several people killed in Copenhagen shopping centre shooting.

    Rumors, supported by vids, suggest this might be a “white supremacist” attack on BIPOCs
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    Saw this comment about McKinsey benchmarking:

    'The real trick of McKinsey is being everywhere. If you are a corporate strategist, you can try to do the best you can with what your analysts tell you and your own data. But if you hire McKinsey you are sure their advice will be at least as good as the one they are giving your competitors. Of course they don’t make it obvious. They have internal shielding, privacy protection, the whole shebang. But you might get invited to be part of the benchmark which matters and their internal documentation pulls cleverly from all their cases. It’s subtle but hiring them is the closest you can get to a cartel without crossing the line. That’s why they are so expensive.'

    Would any PBer care to elaborate?

    That’s sounds like the “negative but positive “ pitch that McKinsey and the other big consultancies would like you to believe.

    Personally I think their advice is a bit like AI. Sounds awesome and produces some funky art (PowerPoint) but when you give it a real problem like fully autonomous driving, it fails.

    Their mind set seems to run on tram lines - all about outsourcing, turning your business into a hedge fund that owns IP. Despite that model having failed many, many times. Works for a bit - until you need new IP. And all your knowledge creators have been outsourced…
    Thanks for the info. Have you any companies in mind when you talk of dropping the in house researchers and suffering for it?
    Boeing are a classic of forgetting how to do their primary skill - creating new planes and manufacturing them.

    Also Boeing (again) and LockMart for losing all their skills in creating new rockets and space vehicles.
    To be fair to LockMart, they're not in the business of large rockets (deliberate bang rockets are a different matter). Their orbital rocket program went to ULA, who are still excellent (but expensive). And Tory Bruno totally owns Musk in the Twitter stakes. ;)

    Boeing's mucked up the SLS, and whilst the Orion capsule (made by LockMart) has had problems, it has been ready for yonks, whereas the SLS rocket has not been.
    They’ve achieved monumental failure in return for billions. Their only hope is that the FAA has bought them enough time to salvage a tiny portion of their dignity.
    How have LockMart achieved 'monumental failure' ?

    What have they achieved since Delta Clipper, in space launch, apart from cancelled programs, after billions spent?

    “It was tooooo hard….”

    Apart from running a company rebadging Russian rocket engines for a 100% markup, via a funky import company in Florida….

    Cry me a fucking river….

    Though they did put in plea to fund their comic hypersonics program in the latest Topgun.
    AIUI LockMart have not been in the space launch business for 15 years (leaving aside Trident), oddly due to Boeing's racketeering.

    ULA is a very different company, being ably run by Tory Bruno.

    Although LockMart have a very healthy satellite business - when they are not dropping them on the floor (*).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19#/media/File:NOAA-N'_accident.jpg

    (*) This was 18 years ago. I feel I should stop mentioning it, but it's so darned funny.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    There was also a cancer patient in Ohio who has had to go out of state to get an abortion before starring chemotherapy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That in-depth report appears to be based on the views of four voters, of whom the youngest was 64. If that's a representative sample, I won't be moving to Tamworth.
    You wouldn't be moving to Tamworth anyway I dare say.
    You can't know that, Andy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Soviet flags are flying in centre of Ukrainian city of Lysychansk reports NY Times.

    Putin is basically a complete product of his upbringing under late Soviet regimes. He cannot imagine a different world to that he was born into.

    Do Russians really want to be back in the USSR?

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    ydoethur said:

    Does Lukashecko actually want people to leave?


    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    7m
    The Belarusian Ministry of Transport Minsk has announced that it has asked Lithuania’s state-owned railway company LTG to relaunch passenger train services between Minsk and Vilnius.

    Lithuania has declared that it is out of the question.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1543673827913351168

    Perhaps he's looking for a way out?

    We can but hope...
    If Uncle Vlad talks him into helping out by invading Ukr from the North then he will certainly need a way out.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    For those who think I am wrong re the school marking question, would you deduct 80% of the marks for a non meaningful punctuation error in a maths or physics answer?

    Nobody of sound mind and good character thinks you're wrong. Piece of sadistic schoolmastering that was. Wrong side of tough love.
    Sadistic? Not really - I could live with getting 2/10 on a piece of homework. And it made me much more careful about punctuation in general (in all subjects) in a way that just having a word with me wouldn't have done.

    I suppose a different person might have been affected more deeply. But then maybe the teacher would have treated the matter differently if he had been dealing with a more sensitive person.
    Ah fair enough. Teachers can psychologically wound though.

    When I was 13, in French class, I pretended I'd passed through Avignon on a family motoring holiday (don't know why) and my French teacher kind of sussed I really hadn't. So what he did was, he got me chatting - this was in front of the whole class - and worked it round to the bridge. Said we must have driven over that then, n'est ce pas?

    I said oui oui. Course. Notice anything? he said. Not really, I said. Then he told the class about the bridge and there was a picture available.

    Everybody sniggered.

    The shame of that is something I recall to this day (as you can see). And it was nearly 50 years
    ago.

    Teachers, they have to be careful.
    That’s actually quite terrible. Pure if mild sadism. Sympathies
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    The argument between extremists ('Always, no limits' v 'never, no limits') is barbaric.

    It is rarely noticed that English law bans and criminalises all abortions subject to narrow exceptions, and never ever permits the mother to be the person who makes the critical judgement and decision. There is no 'right to choose' in English law. Somehow we get by with this position which both sets of extremes seem to regard as an outrage.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    algarkirk said:

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    The argument between extremists ('Always, no limits' v 'never, no limits') is barbaric.

    It is rarely noticed that English law bans and criminalises all abortions subject to narrow exceptions, and never ever permits the mother to be the person who makes the critical judgement and decision. There is no 'right to choose' in English law. Somehow we get by with this position which both sets of extremes seem to regard as an outrage.
    I'm not sure what your point is. One of those "narrow exceptions" is "risk of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman (up to 24 weeks in the pregnancy)", which as I understand it is quite liberally interpreted.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    algarkirk said:

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    The argument between extremists ('Always, no limits' v 'never, no limits') is barbaric.

    It is rarely noticed that English law bans and criminalises all abortions subject to narrow exceptions, and never ever permits the mother to be the person who makes the critical judgement and decision. There is no 'right to choose' in English law. Somehow we get by with this position which both sets of extremes seem to regard as an outrage.
    Clever young chap that David Steel.

    I wonder what happened to him in later life?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589
    algarkirk said:

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    The argument between extremists ('Always, no limits' v 'never, no limits') is barbaric.

    It is rarely noticed that English law bans and criminalises all abortions subject to narrow exceptions, and never ever permits the mother to be the person who makes the critical judgement and decision. There is no 'right to choose' in English law. Somehow we get by with this position which both sets of extremes seem to regard as an outrage.
    I have known many feminists (and many more women), and I have rarely heard anyone argue for 'Always allow it'. I have heard many anti-abortionists say 'never allow it under any circumstances'). Although that might just be the ones I have met.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    Soviet flags are flying in centre of Ukrainian city of Lysychansk reports NY Times.

    Putin is basically a complete product of his upbringing under late Soviet regimes. He cannot imagine a different world to that he was born into.

    Do Russians really want to be back in the USSR?

    Lots of Soviet flags have been shown flying over captured territory. Initially put-down to over-enthusiastic troops; it's happened so much I suspect it's a deliberate signalling of intent.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262

    Saw this comment about McKinsey benchmarking:

    'The real trick of McKinsey is being everywhere. If you are a corporate strategist, you can try to do the best you can with what your analysts tell you and your own data. But if you hire McKinsey you are sure their advice will be at least as good as the one they are giving your competitors. Of course they don’t make it obvious. They have internal shielding, privacy protection, the whole shebang. But you might get invited to be part of the benchmark which matters and their internal documentation pulls cleverly from all their cases. It’s subtle but hiring them is the closest you can get to a cartel without crossing the line. That’s why they are so expensive.'

    Would any PBer care to elaborate?

    That’s sounds like the “negative but positive “ pitch that McKinsey and the other big consultancies would like you to believe.

    Personally I think their advice is a bit like AI. Sounds awesome and produces some funky art (PowerPoint) but when you give it a real problem like fully autonomous driving, it fails.

    Their mind set seems to run on tram lines - all about outsourcing, turning your business into a hedge fund that owns IP. Despite that model having failed many, many times. Works for a bit - until you need new IP. And all your knowledge creators have been outsourced…
    Thanks for the info. Have you any companies in mind when you talk of dropping the in house researchers and suffering for it?
    Boeing are a classic of forgetting how to do their primary skill - creating new planes and manufacturing them.

    Also Boeing (again) and LockMart for losing all their skills in creating new rockets and space vehicles.
    To be fair to LockMart, they're not in the business of large rockets (deliberate bang rockets are a different matter). Their orbital rocket program went to ULA, who are still excellent (but expensive). And Tory Bruno totally owns Musk in the Twitter stakes. ;)

    Boeing's mucked up the SLS, and whilst the Orion capsule (made by LockMart) has had problems, it has been ready for yonks, whereas the SLS rocket has not been.
    They’ve achieved monumental failure in return for billions. Their only hope is that the FAA has bought them enough time to salvage a tiny portion of their dignity.
    How have LockMart achieved 'monumental failure' ?

    What have they achieved since Delta Clipper, in space launch, apart from cancelled programs, after billions spent?

    “It was tooooo hard….”

    Apart from running a company rebadging Russian rocket engines for a 100% markup, via a funky import company in Florida….

    Cry me a fucking river….

    Though they did put in plea to fund their comic hypersonics program in the latest Topgun.
    AIUI LockMart have not been in the space launch business for 15 years (leaving aside Trident), oddly due to Boeing's racketeering.

    ULA is a very different company, being ably run by Tory Bruno.

    Although LockMart have a very healthy satellite business - when they are not dropping them on the floor (*).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19#/media/File:NOAA-N'_accident.jpg

    (*) This was 18 years ago. I feel I should stop mentioning it, but it's so darned funny.
    They have been regularly bidding on various launch program initiatives - mostly around cheap/quick launch. They spend the money and then announce “too hard”

    A chap I know (slightly) actually pointed out at a presentation that they did for the Air Force, that their bid was either a lie or insane. An air started RS25 as a cheap option?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    edited July 2022

    algarkirk said:

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    The argument between extremists ('Always, no limits' v 'never, no limits') is barbaric.

    It is rarely noticed that English law bans and criminalises all abortions subject to narrow exceptions, and never ever permits the mother to be the person who makes the critical judgement and decision. There is no 'right to choose' in English law. Somehow we get by with this position which both sets of extremes seem to regard as an outrage.
    I'm not sure what your point is. One of those "narrow exceptions" is "risk of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman (up to 24 weeks in the pregnancy)", which as I understand it is quite liberally interpreted.
    According to Wikipedia, Ground C (as quoted above) accounts for 98.1% of all abortions in England & Wales.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287

    algarkirk said:

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    The argument between extremists ('Always, no limits' v 'never, no limits') is barbaric.

    It is rarely noticed that English law bans and criminalises all abortions subject to narrow exceptions, and never ever permits the mother to be the person who makes the critical judgement and decision. There is no 'right to choose' in English law. Somehow we get by with this position which both sets of extremes seem to regard as an outrage.
    I have known many feminists (and many more women), and I have rarely heard anyone argue for 'Always allow it'. I have heard many anti-abortionists say 'never allow it under any circumstances'). Although that might just be the ones I have met.
    We had this debate the other day. There are some ‘always allow it’ extreme pro-choicers in the USA. Indeed polls suggest it could be as high as ~19% of Americans (tho like others here I doubt that, more like 5-10% maybe)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    edited July 2022
    Fishing said:

    What's missing isn't just 2 Unlimited, whoever they were.

    It's also having a political genius as Labour leader.

    If Labour had a Blair-like figure at its head, the Tories would be dead and buried. It is easy to forget now the huge advantage he got from the fawning coverage in most of the print, and virtually all the broadcast, media and how, for a while, he seemed to have a sixth sense of the public mood.

    Fortunately for the Conservatives, Labour have Sir Keir Starmer, at least for the moment.

    Not sure it’s fair to SKS to keep comparing him to this semi-mythical centrist god from another era. He was a political class act, Blair, but was he really such a colossus? Wouldn't Smith have won in 97 by over 100 probably? Think he likely would.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Soviet flags are flying in centre of Ukrainian city of Lysychansk reports NY Times.

    Putin is basically a complete product of his upbringing under late Soviet regimes. He cannot imagine a different world to that he was born into.

    Do Russians really want to be back in the USSR?

    Lots of Soviet flags have been shown flying over captured territory. Initially put-down to over-enthusiastic troops; it's happened so much I suspect it's a deliberate signalling of intent.
    Sign of his and his regime's desperation. Trying to claw back lost glories of an old empire and so on.

    If only Yeltsin hadn't turned out to be an alcoholic maybe it would all be different.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Soviet flags are flying in centre of Ukrainian city of Lysychansk reports NY Times.

    Putin is basically a complete product of his upbringing under late Soviet regimes. He cannot imagine a different world to that he was born into.

    Do Russians really want to be back in the USSR?

    This describes pretty much every reactionary to social progress.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andrew Rawnsley thinks that if there is a second Scotref the issue will go away and be settled for good even if the SNP lose. Do PB independence supporters agree?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/03/scotland-future-wont-be-settled-second-vote-on-independence

    The fanatics of the SNP won't give up merely because they keep losing. Like Farage would have done, or Adonis, they will keep going until they get the right result, because they consider their view on what constitutes independence to be far more important than anything else.

    To misquote Tacitus, they would if necessary create a desolation and call it 'a sovereign state.'
    Does this mean that Parti Québécois are a bunch of quitters?

    Good deal of similarity re: Quebec & Scotland re: independence. Think one significant difference is that in la belle province, francophone conservatives have traditionally dominated traditional Quebec nationalism. Which by long tradition is oriented to maximizing rights, standing and home rule for French Quebec within Confederation, as opposed to independence aka separatism from Canada. BTW (also FYI) note that the name of Quebec legislature is Assemblée nationale.

    In contrast, PQ founders, voters and leaders are predominately from the left, as with SNP. Notable exception of Lucien Bouchard, who defected from federal Progressive Conservatives (he was a Brian Mulroney crony-politico) to PQ in order to become Quebec premier. Which presaged the rise of new Quebec nationalist political parties in the traditionalist mold, in particular Coalition Avenir Québec led by current Premier François Legault, who defected from PQ to found CAQ as HIS means of ascent.

    Wondering how lack of similar conservative political nationalism in Scotland, at least anywhere near same degree of support actual or potential, impacts the situation there? And if there is any real prospect for the rise of such a movement, which - as in Quebec - focuses not on independence, but on putting the squeeze on London for maximum Scottish authority & autonomy within the United Kingdom?

    Could Scottish Labour OR Liberal Democrats morph to fill this space, assuming it exists?

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    Saw this comment about McKinsey benchmarking:

    'The real trick of McKinsey is being everywhere. If you are a corporate strategist, you can try to do the best you can with what your analysts tell you and your own data. But if you hire McKinsey you are sure their advice will be at least as good as the one they are giving your competitors. Of course they don’t make it obvious. They have internal shielding, privacy protection, the whole shebang. But you might get invited to be part of the benchmark which matters and their internal documentation pulls cleverly from all their cases. It’s subtle but hiring them is the closest you can get to a cartel without crossing the line. That’s why they are so expensive.'

    Would any PBer care to elaborate?

    That’s sounds like the “negative but positive “ pitch that McKinsey and the other big consultancies would like you to believe.

    Personally I think their advice is a bit like AI. Sounds awesome and produces some funky art (PowerPoint) but when you give it a real problem like fully autonomous driving, it fails.

    Their mind set seems to run on tram lines - all about outsourcing, turning your business into a hedge fund that owns IP. Despite that model having failed many, many times. Works for a bit - until you need new IP. And all your knowledge creators have been outsourced…
    Thanks for the info. Have you any companies in mind when you talk of dropping the in house researchers and suffering for it?
    Boeing are a classic of forgetting how to do their primary skill - creating new planes and manufacturing them.

    Also Boeing (again) and LockMart for losing all their skills in creating new rockets and space vehicles.
    To be fair to LockMart, they're not in the business of large rockets (deliberate bang rockets are a different matter). Their orbital rocket program went to ULA, who are still excellent (but expensive). And Tory Bruno totally owns Musk in the Twitter stakes. ;)

    Boeing's mucked up the SLS, and whilst the Orion capsule (made by LockMart) has had problems, it has been ready for yonks, whereas the SLS rocket has not been.
    They’ve achieved monumental failure in return for billions. Their only hope is that the FAA has bought them enough time to salvage a tiny portion of their dignity.
    How have LockMart achieved 'monumental failure' ?

    What have they achieved since Delta Clipper, in space launch, apart from cancelled programs, after billions spent?

    “It was tooooo hard….”

    Apart from running a company rebadging Russian rocket engines for a 100% markup, via a funky import company in Florida….

    Cry me a fucking river….

    Though they did put in plea to fund their comic hypersonics program in the latest Topgun.
    AIUI LockMart have not been in the space launch business for 15 years (leaving aside Trident), oddly due to Boeing's racketeering.

    ULA is a very different company, being ably run by Tory Bruno.

    Although LockMart have a very healthy satellite business - when they are not dropping them on the floor (*).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19#/media/File:NOAA-N'_accident.jpg

    (*) This was 18 years ago. I feel I should stop mentioning it, but it's so darned funny.
    They have been regularly bidding on various launch program initiatives - mostly around cheap/quick launch. They spend the money and then announce “too hard”

    A chap I know (slightly) actually pointed out at a presentation that they did for the Air Force, that their bid was either a lie or insane. An air started RS25 as a cheap option?
    I fear that's very different from what you wrote.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Soviet flags are flying in centre of Ukrainian city of Lysychansk reports NY Times.

    Putin is basically a complete product of his upbringing under late Soviet regimes. He cannot imagine a different world to that he was born into.

    Do Russians really want to be back in the USSR?

    Flying of Soviet flags by Russian Putinists = Flying of Confederate flags by American Trumpists.

    Different countries, same message.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Soviet flags are flying in centre of Ukrainian city of Lysychansk reports NY Times.

    Putin is basically a complete product of his upbringing under late Soviet regimes. He cannot imagine a different world to that he was born into.

    Do Russians really want to be back in the USSR?

    Lots of Soviet flags have been shown flying over captured territory. Initially put-down to over-enthusiastic troops; it's happened so much I suspect it's a deliberate signalling of intent.
    Sign of his and his regime's desperation. Trying to claw back lost glories of an old empire and so on.

    If only Yeltsin hadn't turned out to be an alcoholic maybe it would all be different.
    Or if Yeltsin had stood aside for Primakov or Lebed in 1994.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    The argument between extremists ('Always, no limits' v 'never, no limits') is barbaric.

    It is rarely noticed that English law bans and criminalises all abortions subject to narrow exceptions, and never ever permits the mother to be the person who makes the critical judgement and decision. There is no 'right to choose' in English law. Somehow we get by with this position which both sets of extremes seem to regard as an outrage.
    I have known many feminists (and many more women), and I have rarely heard anyone argue for 'Always allow it'. I have heard many anti-abortionists say 'never allow it under any circumstances'). Although that might just be the ones I have met.
    We had this debate the other day. There are some ‘always allow it’ extreme pro-choicers in the USA. Indeed polls suggest it could be as high as ~19% of Americans (tho like others here I doubt that, more like 5-10% maybe)
    A practical issue with 'always allow it' is that someone else has to be involved (i.e. doctor/nursing team) to actually do the deed. The 'someone else' will have their own opinions, ethics and so on.

    Unless modern abortion pills can work up until 9 months?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    It's God's will, although if she crosses state lines to get an abortion, that isn't for some reason.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    Soviet flags are flying in centre of Ukrainian city of Lysychansk reports NY Times.

    Putin is basically a complete product of his upbringing under late Soviet regimes. He cannot imagine a different world to that he was born into.

    Do Russians really want to be back in the USSR?

    Lots of Soviet flags have been shown flying over captured territory. Initially put-down to over-enthusiastic troops; it's happened so much I suspect it's a deliberate signalling of intent.
    Sign of his and his regime's desperation. Trying to claw back lost glories of an old empire and so on.

    (Snip)
    From what Putin has been saying, he wants a return to that empire. Which is why everyone who says Ukraine should cede land for peace are wrong - Ukraine is just the start of his regime's ambitions.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    algarkirk said:

    Alistair said:

    10 year old rape victim in Ohio that has banned abortion. It has taken literally 3 days for one of those "absurd emotive contrived examples which you are raising in bad faith" to actually happen

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim

    Given the realities of abortion, 0.1 milliseconds was a more reasonable estimate of how long such a case would take to occur. Because, sadly, this shit ain’t rare.
    The argument between extremists ('Always, no limits' v 'never, no limits') is barbaric.

    It is rarely noticed that English law bans and criminalises all abortions subject to narrow exceptions, and never ever permits the mother to be the person who makes the critical judgement and decision. There is no 'right to choose' in English law. Somehow we get by with this position which both sets of extremes seem to regard as an outrage.
    Barbaric indeed. What a relief then that the argument in practice isn't between extremists but between the status quo (which balances the competing rights on this sensitive issue) and THE extremists who want an outright ban.

    The day will surely come when this point penetrates with you.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262

    Saw this comment about McKinsey benchmarking:

    'The real trick of McKinsey is being everywhere. If you are a corporate strategist, you can try to do the best you can with what your analysts tell you and your own data. But if you hire McKinsey you are sure their advice will be at least as good as the one they are giving your competitors. Of course they don’t make it obvious. They have internal shielding, privacy protection, the whole shebang. But you might get invited to be part of the benchmark which matters and their internal documentation pulls cleverly from all their cases. It’s subtle but hiring them is the closest you can get to a cartel without crossing the line. That’s why they are so expensive.'

    Would any PBer care to elaborate?

    That’s sounds like the “negative but positive “ pitch that McKinsey and the other big consultancies would like you to believe.

    Personally I think their advice is a bit like AI. Sounds awesome and produces some funky art (PowerPoint) but when you give it a real problem like fully autonomous driving, it fails.

    Their mind set seems to run on tram lines - all about outsourcing, turning your business into a hedge fund that owns IP. Despite that model having failed many, many times. Works for a bit - until you need new IP. And all your knowledge creators have been outsourced…
    Thanks for the info. Have you any companies in mind when you talk of dropping the in house researchers and suffering for it?
    Boeing are a classic of forgetting how to do their primary skill - creating new planes and manufacturing them.

    Also Boeing (again) and LockMart for losing all their skills in creating new rockets and space vehicles.
    To be fair to LockMart, they're not in the business of large rockets (deliberate bang rockets are a different matter). Their orbital rocket program went to ULA, who are still excellent (but expensive). And Tory Bruno totally owns Musk in the Twitter stakes. ;)

    Boeing's mucked up the SLS, and whilst the Orion capsule (made by LockMart) has had problems, it has been ready for yonks, whereas the SLS rocket has not been.
    They’ve achieved monumental failure in return for billions. Their only hope is that the FAA has bought them enough time to salvage a tiny portion of their dignity.
    How have LockMart achieved 'monumental failure' ?

    What have they achieved since Delta Clipper, in space launch, apart from cancelled programs, after billions spent?

    “It was tooooo hard….”

    Apart from running a company rebadging Russian rocket engines for a 100% markup, via a funky import company in Florida….

    Cry me a fucking river….

    Though they did put in plea to fund their comic hypersonics program in the latest Topgun.
    AIUI LockMart have not been in the space launch business for 15 years (leaving aside Trident), oddly due to Boeing's racketeering.

    ULA is a very different company, being ably run by Tory Bruno.

    Although LockMart have a very healthy satellite business - when they are not dropping them on the floor (*).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19#/media/File:NOAA-N'_accident.jpg

    (*) This was 18 years ago. I feel I should stop mentioning it, but it's so darned funny.
    They have been regularly bidding on various launch program initiatives - mostly around cheap/quick launch. They spend the money and then announce “too hard”

    A chap I know (slightly) actually pointed out at a presentation that they did for the Air Force, that their bid was either a lie or insane. An air started RS25 as a cheap option?
    I fear that's very different from what you wrote.
    The chap in question was a contractor, hired by the Air Force to help review bids - an external voice.

    LockMart proposed a cheap rapid reaction launch space plane. Using an air started RS25. Long after Ares-1 acquired the J-2X….
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Soviet flags are flying in centre of Ukrainian city of Lysychansk reports NY Times.

    Putin is basically a complete product of his upbringing under late Soviet regimes. He cannot imagine a different world to that he was born into.

    Do Russians really want to be back in the USSR?

    Flying of Soviet flags by Russian Putinists = Flying of Confederate flags by American Trumpists.

    Different countries, same message.
    Not quite surely? The soviet republic was at heart Marxist. Putin doesn't believe in Marx or any of his theories - he is an old fashioned Russian Empire imperialist who would rather be Chief of Security under Czar Nicholas VII.

    Whereas Trumpsters do want to live under Wallace's theoretical view of the world.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited July 2022
    If AI is so good, why are so many classic music videos on YouTube still only available in poor quality? You'd think it would be able to automatically "regenerate" them into HD.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    kyf_100 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    darkage said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Given that our population pyramid is looking more like a population dadbod the idea of importing workers does not frighten or bother me. I don't want to see what happens when an increasingly small working-age population needs to support a large generation with complex needs and the political power to avoid any contribution.

    On housing, frankly we need to smash the power of the NIMBYs. Completely gut the ability to object to new housing developments. Fuck your view, fuck your "village character", fuck your endless concern trolling. Pair that up with a legal requirement for developers to fund services (schools, GP surgeries, proper integrated community stuff) and a tax on land revaluation after usage change. Bang developer heads together and put a bullet in the NIMBYs, crash house prices into the ground and set up a relief fund funded the valuation tax to help out single home owners who suffer negative equity as a consequence.

    Not that I expect any party to do something that might hurt the asset holding class.

    This policy would be catastrophic. You just need to look at build costs to understand why. Build cost inflation is such that even building on green fields can quickly become unviable - that is even before you have tried to tax uplift. There would be no uplift to tax. A 100sqm house costs £200k to build (£2k/sqm) before the value of land, developer profit and planning gain is factored in to the equation. That is almost double what it was a decade ago but wage inflation has not risen in line with build cost inflation. Many families could not afford to buy a house even if it was sold to them at build cost.

    The basic problem is with increases in the cost of materials, skilled labour and the imposition of new regulation that affects housebuilding.


    That's very interesting. I didn't realise material costs had risen so much. What's behind it? Demand in East Asia?
    Mega supply chain problems due to Covid.

    However, there are definitely ways we can bring the costs of housing down, e.g. prefab/modular (to a much higher quality than it was back in the day).

    If I had my way, I would pick a dozen sites across the UK and turn them into low construction cost pre-fab Levittowns, nimbys be damned. The only thing I would change is that I think we need to build higher density. The idea of everyone having a sprawling detached with garden and white picket fence just isn't practical for the UK.
    These 'pre fab' solutions they serve the high end of the market and are more expensive than building with bricks. There are people in the UK who have built factories where houses can be made, but it is more expensive than the traditional form of construction.

    You can buy a static caravan for about £1k / sqm. But this is not a permanent structure and does not comply with building regulations. It falls apart and becomes uninhabitable after 20 years. You would just be building shanty towns.
    Can you point to an example of a prefab that would be of decent quality, please? Would be interested to see what it is like.
    There's loads of it around. Countryside are a massive housebuilder and have a factory in the midlands where they build houses off site, the capacity is 3500 a year. They look no different to regular blockwork housing. The driver isn't price, it is pace and quality.

    https://www.housingtoday.co.uk/news/countryside-to-spend-20m-on-new-modular-factory/5107161.article

    Thank you!
    Correct; it's nothing new. And building timber frame in a factory never stopped in Scotland afaik eg Stuart Milne Group. Though I see that Stuart Milne himself is retiring.

    Even down here Space4 have been doing offsite construction since 2000 in a large factory, and are now part of Persimmon.

    https://renegadeinc.com/corporate-timber-frame-time-bomb/

    Timber framed construction got a very bad rep. in the late 1970s and 1980s due to poor standards. It took two to three decades to recuperate some of that reputation. (I'm not saying none were built; just that it was not seen as a 'mass' construction method cf bricks and mortar).
    I was recently reading a structural engineers report on a timber framed block of flats built just over a decade ago. Dry rot had already set in and there had been movement in part of the frame of the building. This requires partial rebuilding of the structure at costs in excess of £100k. This is just solving one problem that had come to light after about 10 years. The structural engineer was concerned that, unless it was addressed; the building would eventually collapse.
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