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The LDs edging back up in the Devon by-election betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Euromaidan Press
    @EuromaidanPress
    UK armed forces chief says Putin has 'strategically lost' war in Ukraine

    🇷🇺used 25% of its army to gain a tiny amount of territory. Any notion that this is a success for Russia's nonsense. Russia is failing-🇬🇧Admiral Sir Tony Radakin stressed-SkyNews http://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-has-strategically-lost-and-any-notion-they-have-been-successful-is-nonsense-top-military-chief-says-12635312
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874


    The Tory’s are getting stronger and stronger all the time since the vonc. And the greens are withering in the heat.

    We have had the two week plus since the vonc, and there is more than enough evidence to say MoonRabbit called it very wrong, rather than the Tory share going backwards in June, it’s going up, bit by bit, as with Johnson’s personal ratings recovering bit by bit.

    It’s there in front of us. But I can’t explain why voters feel like this. 🙇‍♀️

    Another one who has clearly been out too long in the heat.

    We've had the post-Platinum Jubilee euphoria and no real dramatic developments about anything anywhere. The numbers are settling back to Lab 40, Con 35, LD 10 Others 15 which is where they've been for a while. There's no point micro-analysing every poll or each week's local by-election results to divine some trend.

    The next thing not to do is look at the future through the prism of the past - this Parliament is, I would argue, unique in having a major disruptive event for most of the first half of its existence and now economic events not witnesses for some 30 years. Taking a 1% Conservative rise and assuming Johnson will be re-elected is evidence of mental overheating.

    By the way, talking about yourself in the third person - nah....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    edited June 2022

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    It'll end up 5% i reckon. Unless the BoE grows a set and puts 2% plus on rates sharpish.
    Anyone who hasnt fixed their mortgage rate should be doing so in very short order.
    I have a feeling a bit like government approach to covid they will keep waiting that extra bit of time hoping something turns up only to result in more pain later.
    5% sounds about right I'd say.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156

    Oh.


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    11m
    Unison national delegate conference backs proportional representation (motion 102 passed) https://unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2022/05/2022-National-Delegate-Conference-Final-Agenda.pdf

    Is this for Unison Elections or political elections?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Late afternoon all :)

    My first thought is Zelenskyy would be fighting his war more effectively if he didn't have queues of western leaders showing up at his door. "Just send the missiles and weapons to Severodonetsk" should be all that's needed.

    Public sector pay is going to be very awkward - with Councils still dealing with the financial impact of the pandemic, the last thing any of them could afford would be a 5% pay rise for example. That said, I imagine there'll be plenty of sympathy for NHS workers in particular and there's plenty of low pay in other parts of the public sector as well as recruitment problems.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    MattW said:

    Oh.


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    11m
    Unison national delegate conference backs proportional representation (motion 102 passed) https://unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2022/05/2022-National-Delegate-Conference-Final-Agenda.pdf

    Is this for Unison Elections or political elections?
    Unison has elections? I thought they just drew names of their mates suitably qualified candidates out of a hat, like Unite do!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156
    Tres said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One Tory MP at the Northern Research Group conference - where Boris Johnson failed to turn up - utterly furious

    Says they were being told Johnson “was on the train to Doncaster” this morning

    “This is the first test of outreach to his colleagues and he’s failed it”, they said

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1537812897866436608

    haha gullible fuckwits
    I'm sure he's in Kyiv in his pantaloons.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Depends if they want to win or not.
    Spoiler - dont pick him.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    Normally, yes. But we have this strange stagnation where people leaving the job market voluntarily has meant that recruitment everywhere is still tight.

    Also, the growth of flexible white collar work has undercut two of the advantages of teaching- that there are schools everywhere and the holidays are family-friendly.

    So good luck with that pay cap, government.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just to add - since the government, in one of the many extraordinary cockups the DfE made after having had one of their wilder parties, has effectively eliminated all teacher training from that latter year, I think you're optimistic to assume higher recruitment figures for teacher training numbers.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    edited June 2022
    stodge said:


    The Tory’s are getting stronger and stronger all the time since the vonc. And the greens are withering in the heat.

    We have had the two week plus since the vonc, and there is more than enough evidence to say MoonRabbit called it very wrong, rather than the Tory share going backwards in June, it’s going up, bit by bit, as with Johnson’s personal ratings recovering bit by bit.

    It’s there in front of us. But I can’t explain why voters feel like this. 🙇‍♀️

    Another one who has clearly been out too long in the heat.

    We've had the post-Platinum Jubilee euphoria and no real dramatic developments about anything anywhere. The numbers are settling back to Lab 40, Con 35, LD 10 Others 15 which is where they've been for a while. There's no point micro-analysing every poll or each week's local by-election results to divine some trend.

    The next thing not to do is look at the future through the prism of the past - this Parliament is, I would argue, unique in having a major disruptive event for most of the first half of its existence and now economic events not witnesses for some 30 years. Taking a 1% Conservative rise and assuming Johnson will be re-elected is evidence of mental overheating.

    By the way, talking about yourself in the third person - nah....
    Wise words and projecting polls forward 2 plus years is comfort for some but in reality who knows

    2 years ago my wife and I did not realise that we are today selling her car due to health and mobility issues which is a big step having had her own car for 55 years

    We do not know what tomorrow brings let alone 2024
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Totally agree, there will be real pressure for Labour to elect its first female leader, but Wes Streeting is very impressive and the stand out candidate that should really worry the Conservatives. I still cannot comprehend how anyone in the Labour party thought that Keir Starmer was the answer to a newly elected Boris Johnson in 2020, he didn't set the heather on fire in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 2022
    6000 year old megaliths?

    Yep

    And they were “defaced” with crosses by the Armenians 1700 years ago?!

    Yep

    And you’re just leaning back against one drinking wine as the sun sets over the Caucasus?

    Yep

    At 2000 metres?

    Yep

    And the wine is from the areni grape which is the oldest in the world, traces of which have been found in the oldest winery in the world, down in a cave in the valley 30km away?

    Er, yep

    Are there wild horses?

    Yep

    And possibly a wildcat?

    Maybe



  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    Heathener said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris in Kyiv

    He's that frightened of the Red Wallers?!
    He thinks He can get more votes next week appearing there than in the constituency’s getting booed by public.

    And Crosby is right, he will.
    No he really won't.

    You're not a tory activist in disguise ... are you?
    Tory at least
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022
    stodge said:


    The Tory’s are getting stronger and stronger all the time since the vonc. And the greens are withering in the heat.

    We have had the two week plus since the vonc, and there is more than enough evidence to say MoonRabbit called it very wrong, rather than the Tory share going backwards in June, it’s going up, bit by bit, as with Johnson’s personal ratings recovering bit by bit.

    It’s there in front of us. But I can’t explain why voters feel like this. 🙇‍♀️

    Another one who has clearly been out too long in the heat.

    We've had the post-Platinum Jubilee euphoria and no real dramatic developments about anything anywhere. The numbers are settling back to Lab 40, Con 35, LD 10 Others 15 which is where they've been for a while. There's no point micro-analysing every poll or each week's local by-election results to divine some trend.

    The next thing not to do is look at the future through the prism of the past - this Parliament is, I would argue, unique in having a major disruptive event for most of the first half of its existence and now economic events not witnesses for some 30 years. Taking a 1% Conservative rise and assuming Johnson will be re-elected is evidence of mental overheating.

    By the way, talking about yourself in the third person - nah....
    No point you say but it is enjoyable. So there is that point to it. People are of course free to ignore the musings or to pick out any trivial thing that informs them in some way.
    An individual local by election tells us nothing but over a month a half dozen in the north and ditto the south and the inklings of patterns appear. Ditto polls. One us nothing, a few over 2/3 weeks etc,... and you start to look for 'things' often because of one thing in one poll that makes you sit up
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just to add - since the government, in one of the many extraordinary cockups the DfE made after having had one of their wilder parties, has effectively eliminated all teacher training from that latter year, I think you're optimistic to assume higher recruitment figures for teacher training numbers.
    What fresh hell is this?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Leon said:

    6000 year old megaliths?

    Yep

    And they were defaced with crosses by the Armenians 1700 years ago?!

    Yep

    And you’re just leaning back against one drinking wine as the sun sets over the Caucasus?

    Yep

    At 2000 metres?

    Yep

    And the wine is from the areni grape which is the oldest in the world, traces of which have been found in the oldest winery in the world, down in a cave in the valley 30km away?

    Er, yep

    Are there wild horses?

    Yep

    And possibly a wildcat?

    Maybe



    Is that a traffic cop coming my way

    Yep

    Am i over the drink drive limit

    .....
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300
    IshmaelZ said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Stephen Pollard@stephenpollard·16m
    I know it's deflection. I know he should have resigned.
    But it matters hugely to the Ukrainians that Johnson is there today, and in the circumstances today that's what matters.

    How does he think he knows that?
    I don't think there is any doubts that Boris is more popular among Ukrainians than he is with UK voters and parts of his own party right now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    edited June 2022

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just to add - since the government, in one of the many extraordinary cockups the DfE made after having had one of their wilder parties, has effectively eliminated all teacher training from that latter year, I think you're optimistic to assume higher recruitment figures for teacher training numbers.
    What fresh hell is this?
    This isn't a bad summary:

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/just-1-in-3-teacher-trainers-re-accredited-after-first-review-round/

    But - even better than this - since the only providers they were going to allow to use the new framework have been kicked out in the first round, they will without a change of policy be closing all teacher training.

    Which is quite incredible, but entirely typical of the fuckups made by the DfE.

    I am slowly coming to the conclusion it must be malignity because not even a bunch of ex-public school Oxbridge graduates could be this stupid.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    6000 year old megaliths?

    Yep



    Saw this in Parliament Square on Wednesday :lol:


  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Controversial opinion....Eoin Morgan should be dropped from England ODI / T20 teams.

    Drop Jason Roy first - although watching his colleagues get a world record score after he was out for a single, might do something for him. Morgan getting a duck let in Livingstone for his sensational innings.
    I am usually not the biggest fan of England Cricket teams but even I think discussing which batsmen to drop after they have scored 498 in 50 overs is a bit of a discussion that need not be the most pressing to have!
    The two batsmen that got one run between them, in the context of that record score?
    well morgan did what he had to do at the stage he got in (ie swing it!) -sometimes you get out when you do that . As for Roy well he got one of those days when you get out cheaply on a road and watch the rest of your teammates swot around some pie chuckers. It happens!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    6000 year old megaliths?

    Yep

    And they were defaced with crosses by the Armenians 1700 years ago?!

    Yep

    And you’re just leaning back against one drinking wine as the sun sets over the Caucasus?

    Yep

    At 2000 metres?

    Yep

    And the wine is from the areni grape which is the oldest in the world, traces of which have been found in the oldest winery in the world, down in a cave in the valley 30km away?

    Er, yep

    Are there wild horses?

    Yep

    And possibly a wildcat?

    Maybe



    Is that a traffic cop coming my way

    Yep

    Am i over the drink drive limit

    .....
    No sign of the Feds yet


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    My first thought is Zelenskyy would be fighting his war more effectively if he didn't have queues of western leaders showing up at his door. "Just send the missiles and weapons to Severodonetsk" should be all that's needed.

    Public sector pay is going to be very awkward - with Councils still dealing with the financial impact of the pandemic, the last thing any of them could afford would be a 5% pay rise for example. That said, I imagine there'll be plenty of sympathy for NHS workers in particular and there's plenty of low pay in other parts of the public sector as well as recruitment problems.

    5% seems to be the number in Scottish public services so far
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300
    Twitter
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky
    NEW:

    Letter from Lord Geidt toughens language on why he quit

    He says he “could not be party to advising on potential law breaking”

    Admits his resignation letter may have been too cautious

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1537841026123149312
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    27.2 degrees in my living room right now!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    27.2 degrees in my living room right now!

    Wow. I always knew you were a clever bloke Dr Prasannan but either you've gone a bit mad on the old qualifications or your faculty must be round for a party!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Late night Norwich news. Last night across the road (where there be dragons/a pub) i was entertained by the very loud sound of a man who could barely stay on his feet trying to fight a man who couldnt stand up while a man who had lost his depth perception tried to pull him away (or rather pull some air near to him away).
    It lacked a shrewish woman screaming about someone not being worth it.
    It ended predictably. With me guffawing.
    Ill bet they'd all had a lovely night till someone said something about someone one of them dated in the 80s (they were in their 60s id say which made it even funnier)
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300
    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky
    NEW:

    Letter from Lord Geidt toughens language on why he quit

    He says he “could not be party to advising on potential law breaking”

    Admits his resignation letter may have been too cautious

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1537841026123149312

    Twitter
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1m
    Lord Geidt saying - loudly and clearly - my resignation was not about steel

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1537841026123149312
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    27.2 degrees in my living room right now!

    Cool, 35 or more where I am and has been all week
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's 2-3.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's nearer 2-3.
    Not going to be any shortage of work though!

    Edit - I have a feeling supply teacher rates will be going up too, as demand chases supply (no pun intended). Lots went and got other work in the lockdowns, the ones that stay are at a premium no matter how shit they are.

    £160 was the daily rate an agency was paying round here, so schools must be paying pushing £240.

    Get yourself a portable DBS and write to a dozen schools in your area that you know to be OK-ish offering £200 and I reckon you'll have all the work you'll want.

    You may decide you don't want it after a short while given how far discipline has collapsed!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Leon said:

    6000 year old megaliths?

    Yep



    Saw this in Parliament Square on Wednesday :lol:


    That banner's outrageous. What have charlatans done to be compared to Johnson?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2022

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW - Westminster Voting Intention

    LAB 41% (-1)
    CON 34% (+1)
    LD 10% (+1)
    SNP 4% (-)
    GRN 3% (-1)
    OTH 7% (-1)

    2053 UK adults aged 18+ online, 10th June '22. Changes w/ April 29 ‘22 https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1537814001794547713/photo/1

    Oh dear! Look at the “trend” (sic)! Scottish Labour collapse from 29% to 15% in half a day. Don’t tell our psephological expert BigG.

    SNP 42%
    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 11%
    Ref 3%
    Grn 2%
    Alba 1%
    oth 4%

    Survation, 10 June 2022
    SNP still down on the 45% they got in 2019 nonetheless on both polls, even if main swing on this one to SLDs
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky
    NEW:

    Letter from Lord Geidt toughens language on why he quit

    He says he “could not be party to advising on potential law breaking”

    Admits his resignation letter may have been too cautious

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1537841026123149312

    Twitter
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1m
    Lord Geidt saying - loudly and clearly - my resignation was not about steel

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1537841026123149312
    Twitter
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1m
    Translation of Lord Geidt letter into English:

    <<Sorry I didn’t do the resignation properly. I missed the mic drop moment. Here’s me having another go>>
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    malcolmg said:

    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    My first thought is Zelenskyy would be fighting his war more effectively if he didn't have queues of western leaders showing up at his door. "Just send the missiles and weapons to Severodonetsk" should be all that's needed.

    Public sector pay is going to be very awkward - with Councils still dealing with the financial impact of the pandemic, the last thing any of them could afford would be a 5% pay rise for example. That said, I imagine there'll be plenty of sympathy for NHS workers in particular and there's plenty of low pay in other parts of the public sector as well as recruitment problems.

    5% seems to be the number in Scottish public services so far
    The unions are less than thrilled with that, and no wonder. The UK Government, meanwhile, was talking about 3% for the English NHS a few months ago, and they're such a tight-fisted bunch they may very well try to ram that through.

    As foreshadowed by the rail strikes, we are headed for a lot of industrial unrest at the rate things are going, across the public sector and in any private enterprises where unions still have some clout. In much of the rest of the private sector, employees won't have the option to bargain for a better deal but many will exploit labour shortages to dump stingy employers and sod off elsewhere. Fun and games...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    IshmaelZ said:

    The Tories have given up on the North, I think they've concluded those seats have gone and they now have to defend the South

    Been telling HYUFD for a year now, rural England has had it up to here with phatboi. Really quite hard to see what's left.
    No it hasn't, any more than the inner cities gave up on Labour even over the last decade.

    The vast majority of rural seats stayed Tory in the local elections for example
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's nearer 2-3.
    Not going to be any shortage of work though!
    Nope.
    I made the mistake of enquiring on spec a couple of weeks ago.
    To say it was quite unlike any experience I have ever had of seeking work would be putting it mildly...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,251
    malcolmg said:

    27.2 degrees in my living room right now!

    Cool, 35 or more where I am and has been all week
    He means Celsius not Fahrenheit @malcolmg
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,251
    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    May was chosen on merit.

    Not her merit, mind, but that of her opponents
  • 🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    My first thought is Zelenskyy would be fighting his war more effectively if he didn't have queues of western leaders showing up at his door. "Just send the missiles and weapons to Severodonetsk" should be all that's needed.

    Public sector pay is going to be very awkward - with Councils still dealing with the financial impact of the pandemic, the last thing any of them could afford would be a 5% pay rise for example. That said, I imagine there'll be plenty of sympathy for NHS workers in particular and there's plenty of low pay in other parts of the public sector as well as recruitment problems.

    Here's the answer to these economic woes:

    Tax

    The

    Wealthy

    More


    And yes, before anyone asks that would hit me. But I'm still not going to be worrying about weather to eat or heat my home this winter.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW - Westminster Voting Intention

    LAB 41% (-1)
    CON 34% (+1)
    LD 10% (+1)
    SNP 4% (-)
    GRN 3% (-1)
    OTH 7% (-1)

    2053 UK adults aged 18+ online, 10th June '22. Changes w/ April 29 ‘22 https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1537814001794547713/photo/1

    Oh dear! Look at the “trend” (sic)! Scottish Labour collapse from 29% to 15% in half a day. Don’t tell our psephological expert BigG.

    SNP 42%
    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 11%
    Ref 3%
    Grn 2%
    Alba 1%
    oth 4%

    Survation, 10 June 2022
    No need - independence is over
    Please enlighten us.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky
    NEW:

    Letter from Lord Geidt toughens language on why he quit

    He says he “could not be party to advising on potential law breaking”

    Admits his resignation letter may have been too cautious

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1537841026123149312

    Twitter
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1m
    Lord Geidt saying - loudly and clearly - my resignation was not about steel

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1537841026123149312
    Twitter
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1m
    Translation of Lord Geidt letter into English:

    <<Sorry I didn’t do the resignation properly. I missed the mic drop moment. Here’s me having another go>>
    Esprit de l'escalier
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nikita and Nikolai both smuggling out 6 Crombie coats, a dozen Turnbull & Asser shirts and 32lbs of Cadbury's Milk.


    Hitchcock themed fancy dress party.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The Tories have given up on the North, I think they've concluded those seats have gone and they now have to defend the South

    Been telling HYUFD for a year now, rural England has had it up to here with phatboi. Really quite hard to see what's left.
    No it hasn't, any more than the inner cities gave up on Labour even over the last decade.

    The vast majority of rural seats stayed Tory in the local elections for example
    My blue-to-the-core father-in-law thinks Johnson is a fatuous lying oaf. He's always voted Tory but I honestly think he'll abstain or vote LD at the next GE. (Or maybe before the next GE, dependent on what happens to Warburton.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited June 2022
    Two Redactles in a row for me, which is a new record.

    167 guesses, which is not as quick as yesterday, but got there in the end. It was guess 117 that really opened it up.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    Theresa May became leader because the *other* candidate (who also happened to be a woman), turned out to have exaggerated on her CV. (And because she said some very stupid things about motherhood.)
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    My first thought is Zelenskyy would be fighting his war more effectively if he didn't have queues of western leaders showing up at his door. "Just send the missiles and weapons to Severodonetsk" should be all that's needed.

    Public sector pay is going to be very awkward - with Councils still dealing with the financial impact of the pandemic, the last thing any of them could afford would be a 5% pay rise for example. That said, I imagine there'll be plenty of sympathy for NHS workers in particular and there's plenty of low pay in other parts of the public sector as well as recruitment problems.

    Here's the answer to these economic woes:

    Tax

    The

    Wealthy

    More


    And yes, before anyone asks that would hit me. But I'm still not going to be worrying about weather to eat or heat my home this winter.
    If that policy is going to be transformative then that has to include going after the principal store of wealth in this country, i.e. its hugely undertaxed housing stock (indeed, more broadly, I'd say that we should be properly soaking assets and actually cutting taxes on earned incomes, creating the net increase in tax take we need to deal with the vast and growing burden of old and knackered people, and the general state of decrepitude of our public services, whilst doing so in a fairer fashion.)

    HOWEVER - the politicians won't touch houses.

    So on we go, spiralling down the plughole.
  • NEW:

    Letter from Lord Geidt toughens language on why he quit

    He says he “could not be party to advising on potential law breaking”

    Admits his resignation letter may have been too cautious
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    I don't see Tory MP's standing for that.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    Sounds remarkably like what i suggested yesterday *buffs nails and fluffs enormous member*
    Getting the party to go along however......
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Who leads 2.
    Still not you
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    I don't see Tory MP's standing for that.
    Nor do I. They've bent over meekly every time he's asked them to do so, after all.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    I don't see Tory MP's standing for that.

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    Sounds remarkably like what i suggested yesterday *buffs nails and fluffs enormous member*
    Getting the party to go along however......
    Why would Johnson give a flying wotsit about what the Tory Party or his MPs think?

    He doesn't need the agreement of the Tory Party, or the Cabinet, or the Commons to bring about a dissolution. He only needs the agreement of himself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    Theresa May became leader because the *other* candidate (who also happened to be a woman), turned out to have exaggerated on her CV. (And because she said some very stupid things about motherhood.)
    And also because Boris withdrew from the race that time
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    May was chosen on merit.

    Not her merit, mind, but that of her opponents
    I believe very strongly that had her opponent been selected, we'd have enjoyed a far more fruitful time politically since then than we did.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    And if he had not gone, people would have criticised him for not having met Zelensky when the German, Italian, Romanian and French leaders had. "Johnson only gets a phone call!"

    Johnson's been doing the right thing wrt Ukraine, or at least Zelensky and Ukraine seem to think so. It's odd to have to praise Johnson, but it seems a little off to find dubious reasons to criticise him over it.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's nearer 2-3.
    Not going to be any shortage of work though!

    Edit - I have a feeling supply teacher rates will be going up too, as demand chases supply (no pun intended). Lots went and got other work in the lockdowns, the ones that stay are at a premium no matter how shit they are.

    £160 was the daily rate an agency was paying round here, so schools must be paying pushing £240.

    Get yourself a portable DBS and write to a dozen schools in your area that you know to be OK-ish offering £200 and I reckon you'll have all the work you'll want.

    You may decide you don't want it after a short while given how far discipline has collapsed!

    This issue - demand chasing supply - is what has been going on with planning officers. The going rate for a basic planning officer now is £250 - £300 per day. These are long term contracts, too, 37 hours per week. Some Council's will take on "planning officers" with no professional qualifications or actual experience of planning at that rate. No idea how that works out in practice. Meanwhile the permanent staff are being paid about a third of this, in real terms, and subject to 1% annual pay rises, whilst the rate for agency staff is jumping massively week by week. On top of those rates quoted above, there is agency commission - probably 15 - 20%.

    Council staff will eventually realise that the only way to get a pay rise, is to just hand in your notice and turn back up for work as a contractor, you get paid twice as much. Unless there are across the board 10% increases, the government will pay for its misjudgements and incompetence that way.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    If Zelenskyy didn't want foreign leaders to come, he'd tell them not to come...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited June 2022

    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    May was chosen on merit.

    Not her merit, mind, but that of her opponents
    I believe very strongly that had her opponent been selected, we'd have enjoyed a far more fruitful time politically since then than we did.
    Because Leadsom was able to reach across both party lines and the bitterness created by the referendum, and could forge a united view on Brexit?

    Not seeing it myself, but it's good to have a view.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    Theresa May became leader because the *other* candidate (who also happened to be a woman), turned out to have exaggerated on her CV. (And because she said some very stupid things about motherhood.)
    And also because Boris withdrew from the race that time
    Because he's a man?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156
    edited June 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    I quite enjoyed this vid of the German and Italian leaders on the Ukraine trip
    discussing why Macron had got the posh carriage and they were travelling steerage. And that their lingua franca is English :smile: .

    New footage of Scholz, Macron and Draghi's night train ride to Kyiv just dropped. 🇩🇪🇫🇷🇮🇹

    Scholz and Draghi are discussing that Macron's train compartment is much nicer than theirs, which is more "basic."

    "On the other hand," Draghi quips, Macron is "the President of the Union."

    https://twitter.com/vonderburchard/status/1537359934760923140


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited June 2022
    Applicant said:

    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    If Zelenskyy didn't want foreign leaders to come, he'd tell them not to come...
    I'm not sure he's in a position to make demands of those whose goodwill he depends on.
  • Johnson was right to go to Ukraine. There's a war on.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022
    pigeon said:

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    I don't see Tory MP's standing for that.

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    Sounds remarkably like what i suggested yesterday *buffs nails and fluffs enormous member*
    Getting the party to go along however......
    Why would Johnson give a flying wotsit about what the Tory Party or his MPs think?

    He doesn't need the agreement of the Tory Party, or the Cabinet, or the Commons to bring about a dissolution. He only needs the agreement of himself.
    No, if the Tory party/cabinet do not support then under the Lascelles principles HMQ will refuse dissolution. And Johnson would be dismissed. The idea a PM can on his own decide to call a GE wuth no support is for the birds.
    If cabinet and a chunk of the party support then of course he can
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Applicant said:

    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    If Zelenskyy didn't want foreign leaders to come, he'd tell them not to come...
    And they'd say, No meet and greet and photo ops, no missiles and tanks and training programs.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    The last week has been a success?

    Can we check the aircon in the Westminster bunker?

    The heat seems to be sending them mad.

    (The best thing for the Conservative Party might be a quick, and quickly thrown, election. Dump the World Of Pain on the Otherlot Party, aim to bounce back in 2027.

    But that means admitting how screwed they are if they wait, even until Advent 2024. And it limits Johnson's tenure. Which is why he won't want to go early. Because he might well lose.)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    edited June 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    May was chosen on merit.

    Not her merit, mind, but that of her opponents
    I believe very strongly that had her opponent been selected, we'd have enjoyed a far more fruitful time politically since then than we did.
    Because Leadsom was able to reach across both party lines and the bitterness created by the referendum, and could forge a united view on Brexit?

    Not seeing it myself, but admire your confidence.
    I don't think she'd have been bad at reaching across party lines and assuaging some of the bitterness, but more pertinently, I think she would have made serious preparations for a No Deal scenario, which May and Hammond explicitly neglected to do. I also believe she'd have been sensible enough to avoid the snap election bear trap. So I think she would have secured a far more workable Brexit deal. It is absolutely vital in a negotiation to have the ability to walk away. We didn't have that ability, so it's hardly surprising we got May's deal, then Boris's.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    If Zelenskyy didn't want foreign leaders to come, he'd tell them not to come...
    I'm not sure he's in a position to make demands of those whose goodwill he depends on.
    ISTR he did tell Macron not to come earlier in the war.

    BTW, it seems my fears from yesterday were unfounded; the mood music from the big meeting is much more positive than I feared. It's possible Ukraine might get the support from Europe that it requires.

    So the question is why? I mean, there are plenty of good reasons why Ukraine should be supported, but have Germany and Italy really put their own needs as a lesser priority?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's nearer 2-3.
    Not going to be any shortage of work though!

    Edit - I have a feeling supply teacher rates will be going up too, as demand chases supply (no pun intended). Lots went and got other work in the lockdowns, the ones that stay are at a premium no matter how shit they are.

    £160 was the daily rate an agency was paying round here, so schools must be paying pushing £240.

    Get yourself a portable DBS and write to a dozen schools in your area that you know to be OK-ish offering £200 and I reckon you'll have all the work you'll want.

    You may decide you don't want it after a short while given how far discipline has collapsed!

    This issue - demand chasing supply - is what has been going on with planning officers. The going rate for a basic planning officer now is £250 - £300 per day. These are long term contracts, too, 37 hours per week. Some Council's will take on "planning officers" with no professional qualifications or actual experience of planning at that rate. No idea how that works out in practice. Meanwhile the permanent staff are being paid about a third of this, in real terms, and subject to 1% annual pay rises, whilst the rate for agency staff is jumping massively week by week. On top of those rates quoted above, there is agency commission - probably 15 - 20%.

    Council staff will eventually realise that the only way to get a pay rise, is to just hand in your notice and turn back up for work as a contractor, you get paid twice as much. Unless there are across the board 10% increases, the government will pay for its misjudgements and incompetence that way.
    This is a widespread trend across the Public sector.
    It is an incredibly inefficient and expensive way to run them.
    In 5 years time there'll be only managers. To manage the agency staff.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156
    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's nearer 2-3.
    Not going to be any shortage of work though!

    Edit - I have a feeling supply teacher rates will be going up too, as demand chases supply (no pun intended). Lots went and got other work in the lockdowns, the ones that stay are at a premium no matter how shit they are.

    £160 was the daily rate an agency was paying round here, so schools must be paying pushing £240.

    Get yourself a portable DBS and write to a dozen schools in your area that you know to be OK-ish offering £200 and I reckon you'll have all the work you'll want.

    You may decide you don't want it after a short while given how far discipline has collapsed!

    This issue - demand chasing supply - is what has been going on with planning officers. The going rate for a basic planning officer now is £250 - £300 per day. These are long term contracts, too, 37 hours per week. Some Council's will take on "planning officers" with no professional qualifications or actual experience of planning at that rate. No idea how that works out in practice. Meanwhile the permanent staff are being paid about a third of this, in real terms, and subject to 1% annual pay rises, whilst the rate for agency staff is jumping massively week by week. On top of those rates quoted above, there is agency commission - probably 15 - 20%.

    Council staff will eventually realise that the only way to get a pay rise, is to just hand in your notice and turn back up for work as a contractor, you get paid twice as much. Unless there are across the board 10% increases, the government will pay for its misjudgements and incompetence that way.
    I think comparisons with the Minimum Wage are a bit optimistic.

    But the best of luck !
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    And if he had not gone, people would have criticised him for not having met Zelensky when the German, Italian, Romanian and French leaders had. "Johnson only gets a phone call!"

    Johnson's been doing the right thing wrt Ukraine, or at least Zelensky and Ukraine seem to think so. It's odd to have to praise Johnson, but it seems a little off to find dubious reasons to criticise him over it.
    Well they would think that wouldn't they, and say so of they know which side their bread is buttered. Plus it's this country of which Johnson is pm which is doing the right thing, so it only partly shores up his claim to sainthood.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    May was chosen on merit.

    Not her merit, mind, but that of her opponents
    I believe very strongly that had her opponent been selected, we'd have enjoyed a far more fruitful time politically since then than we did.
    Because Leadsom was able to reach across both party lines and the bitterness created by the referendum, and could forge a united view on Brexit?

    Not seeing it myself, but it's good to have a view.
    I think I agree with @Luckyguy1983, but for different reasons.

    May would have won, because Leadsom was clearly mad and deluded. After all, the Conservative Party wasn't as Brexit Puritan then as it became.

    And having won in a real (but unbalanced) fight, May would have been in a stronger position to push her vision through. Winning by default weakened her.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    The last week has been a success?

    Can we check the aircon in the Westminster bunker?

    The heat seems to be sending them mad.

    (The best thing for the Conservative Party might be a quick, and quickly thrown, election. Dump the World Of Pain on the Otherlot Party, aim to bounce back in 2027.

    But that means admitting how screwed they are if they wait, even until Advent 2024. And it limits Johnson's tenure. Which is why he won't want to go early. Because he might well lose.)
    Best possible result for the Tories is 310 seats, let Labour run a clown college collective clusterfuck minority admin and destroy them in the inevitable election about 18 months later.
    And a very possible result on a very narrow tory lead if they can get there
    Thats if we are playing fuck the country, what about the party?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's nearer 2-3.
    Not going to be any shortage of work though!

    Edit - I have a feeling supply teacher rates will be going up too, as demand chases supply (no pun intended). Lots went and got other work in the lockdowns, the ones that stay are at a premium no matter how shit they are.

    £160 was the daily rate an agency was paying round here, so schools must be paying pushing £240.

    Get yourself a portable DBS and write to a dozen schools in your area that you know to be OK-ish offering £200 and I reckon you'll have all the work you'll want.

    You may decide you don't want it after a short while given how far discipline has collapsed!

    This issue - demand chasing supply - is what has been going on with planning officers. The going rate for a basic planning officer now is £250 - £300 per day. These are long term contracts, too, 37 hours per week. Some Council's will take on "planning officers" with no professional qualifications or actual experience of planning at that rate. No idea how that works out in practice. Meanwhile the permanent staff are being paid about a third of this, in real terms, and subject to 1% annual pay rises, whilst the rate for agency staff is jumping massively week by week. On top of those rates quoted above, there is agency commission - probably 15 - 20%.

    Council staff will eventually realise that the only way to get a pay rise, is to just hand in your notice and turn back up for work as a contractor, you get paid twice as much. Unless there are across the board 10% increases, the government will pay for its misjudgements and incompetence that way.
    Where do they advertise that work? Serious question as ISTR you raised it once before and it sounded interesting.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW - Westminster Voting Intention

    LAB 41% (-1)
    CON 34% (+1)
    LD 10% (+1)
    SNP 4% (-)
    GRN 3% (-1)
    OTH 7% (-1)

    2053 UK adults aged 18+ online, 10th June '22. Changes w/ April 29 ‘22 https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1537814001794547713/photo/1

    Oh dear! Look at the “trend” (sic)! Scottish Labour collapse from 29% to 15% in half a day. Don’t tell our psephological expert BigG.

    SNP 42%
    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 11%
    Ref 3%
    Grn 2%
    Alba 1%
    oth 4%

    Survation, 10 June 2022
    SNP still down on the 45% they got in 2019 nonetheless on both polls, even if main swing on this one to SLDs
    Meanwhile, back in the real world, the SNP just achieved our best ever results in local elections, and our eleventh election victory in a row.

    And an SLD revival has more upsides for the SNP than downsides. An SLD surge is Ross’s worst nightmare.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    If Zelenskyy didn't want foreign leaders to come, he'd tell them not to come...
    I'm not sure he's in a position to make demands of those whose goodwill he depends on.
    He's got a pretty handy excuse if he wants it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    I quite enjoyed this vid of the German and Italian leaders on the Ukraine trip
    discussing why Macron had got the posh carriage and they were travelling steerage. And that their lingua franca is English :smile: .

    New footage of Scholz, Macron and Draghi's night train ride to Kyiv just dropped. 🇩🇪🇫🇷🇮🇹

    Scholz and Draghi are discussing that Macron's train compartment is much nicer than theirs, which is more "basic."

    "On the other hand," Draghi quips, Macron is "the President of the Union."

    https://twitter.com/vonderburchard/status/1537359934760923140


    The three them are wasted in politics, just think what they could have done for the world of stand up comedy.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    The last week has been a success?

    Can we check the aircon in the Westminster bunker?

    The heat seems to be sending them mad.

    (The best thing for the Conservative Party might be a quick, and quickly thrown, election. Dump the World Of Pain on the Otherlot Party, aim to bounce back in 2027.

    But that means admitting how screwed they are if they wait, even until Advent 2024. And it limits Johnson's tenure. Which is why he won't want to go early. Because he might well lose.)
    Best possible result for the Tories is 310 seats, let Labour run a clown college collective clusterfuck minority admin and destroy them in the inevitable election about 18 months later.
    And a very possible result on a very narrow tory lead if they can get there
    Thats if we are playing fuck the country, what about the party?
    True, though that ship probably sailed last autumn. Now, it looks like they have to play it long, and hope that something turns up.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's nearer 2-3.
    Not going to be any shortage of work though!

    Edit - I have a feeling supply teacher rates will be going up too, as demand chases supply (no pun intended). Lots went and got other work in the lockdowns, the ones that stay are at a premium no matter how shit they are.

    £160 was the daily rate an agency was paying round here, so schools must be paying pushing £240.

    Get yourself a portable DBS and write to a dozen schools in your area that you know to be OK-ish offering £200 and I reckon you'll have all the work you'll want.

    You may decide you don't want it after a short while given how far discipline has collapsed!

    This issue - demand chasing supply - is what has been going on with planning officers. The going rate for a basic planning officer now is £250 - £300 per day. These are long term contracts, too, 37 hours per week. Some Council's will take on "planning officers" with no professional qualifications or actual experience of planning at that rate. No idea how that works out in practice. Meanwhile the permanent staff are being paid about a third of this, in real terms, and subject to 1% annual pay rises, whilst the rate for agency staff is jumping massively week by week. On top of those rates quoted above, there is agency commission - probably 15 - 20%.

    Council staff will eventually realise that the only way to get a pay rise, is to just hand in your notice and turn back up for work as a contractor, you get paid twice as much. Unless there are across the board 10% increases, the government will pay for its misjudgements and incompetence that way.
    This is a widespread trend across the Public sector.
    It is an incredibly inefficient and expensive way to run them.
    In 5 years time there'll be only managers. To manage the agency staff.
    Its going that way already, but actually a lot of the time the managers are also contractors as well. The people who are left in permanent employment are often those who are the least competent, and who are impossible to sack. Council's also have a way of sacking the few very competent and experienced staff who have remained loyal to them, typically in the deluded belief that by getting them 'out of the way' and bringing in agency staff, the whole thing will miraculously improve. Inevitably they are proved wrong, and forced to pay the price.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    ydoethur said:

    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's nearer 2-3.
    Not going to be any shortage of work though!

    Edit - I have a feeling supply teacher rates will be going up too, as demand chases supply (no pun intended). Lots went and got other work in the lockdowns, the ones that stay are at a premium no matter how shit they are.

    £160 was the daily rate an agency was paying round here, so schools must be paying pushing £240.

    Get yourself a portable DBS and write to a dozen schools in your area that you know to be OK-ish offering £200 and I reckon you'll have all the work you'll want.

    You may decide you don't want it after a short while given how far discipline has collapsed!

    This issue - demand chasing supply - is what has been going on with planning officers. The going rate for a basic planning officer now is £250 - £300 per day. These are long term contracts, too, 37 hours per week. Some Council's will take on "planning officers" with no professional qualifications or actual experience of planning at that rate. No idea how that works out in practice. Meanwhile the permanent staff are being paid about a third of this, in real terms, and subject to 1% annual pay rises, whilst the rate for agency staff is jumping massively week by week. On top of those rates quoted above, there is agency commission - probably 15 - 20%.

    Council staff will eventually realise that the only way to get a pay rise, is to just hand in your notice and turn back up for work as a contractor, you get paid twice as much. Unless there are across the board 10% increases, the government will pay for its misjudgements and incompetence that way.
    Where do they advertise that work? Serious question as ISTR you raised it once before and it sounded interesting.
    I will DM you
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Johnson was right to go to Ukraine. There's a war on.

    And his going there (again) has helped how, exactly?

    We all know he's only gone there because he's scared to campaign in the by-elections, and he needed a distraction from Geidt.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    The last week has been a success?

    Can we check the aircon in the Westminster bunker?

    The heat seems to be sending them mad.

    (The best thing for the Conservative Party might be a quick, and quickly thrown, election. Dump the World Of Pain on the Otherlot Party, aim to bounce back in 2027.

    But that means admitting how screwed they are if they wait, even until Advent 2024. And it limits Johnson's tenure. Which is why he won't want to go early. Because he might well lose.)
    Best possible result for the Tories is 310 seats, let Labour run a clown college collective clusterfuck minority admin and destroy them in the inevitable election about 18 months later.
    And a very possible result on a very narrow tory lead if they can get there
    Thats if we are playing fuck the country, what about the party?
    True, though that ship probably sailed last autumn. Now, it looks like they have to play it long, and hope that something turns up.
    If theyd gone last (early) autumn hed have a smallish to moderate majority but the issues would not have been put to bed as all emerging afterwards.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Public sector pay cap of 2% is going to be the story of the Summer.

    Holding that line is going to be popcorn-tastic.

    Even if, somehow, the government can bludgeon their way through strikes, recruitment and retention are going to be grim. Beyond a certain point, you simply can't keep staff from going and working in some other field. Or pootling off into early semi-retirement.

    Schools are struggling to put bodies in front of classes now, and the numbers entering training are horrible.
    iirc a recession is always good for teacher training numbers as grads have nowhere else to apply.
    I don't think that's going to compensate for the numbers leaving.

    In any case, the crunch is on us this year and next year. Too late for training numbers in 2024-25 to make a difference.
    Just been looking at going back on supply from September.
    When I first qualified in 2001 it was 6-7 times the minimum wage per hour.
    Now it's nearer 2-3.
    Not going to be any shortage of work though!

    Edit - I have a feeling supply teacher rates will be going up too, as demand chases supply (no pun intended). Lots went and got other work in the lockdowns, the ones that stay are at a premium no matter how shit they are.

    £160 was the daily rate an agency was paying round here, so schools must be paying pushing £240.

    Get yourself a portable DBS and write to a dozen schools in your area that you know to be OK-ish offering £200 and I reckon you'll have all the work you'll want.

    You may decide you don't want it after a short while given how far discipline has collapsed!

    This issue - demand chasing supply - is what has been going on with planning officers. The going rate for a basic planning officer now is £250 - £300 per day. These are long term contracts, too, 37 hours per week. Some Council's will take on "planning officers" with no professional qualifications or actual experience of planning at that rate. No idea how that works out in practice. Meanwhile the permanent staff are being paid about a third of this, in real terms, and subject to 1% annual pay rises, whilst the rate for agency staff is jumping massively week by week. On top of those rates quoted above, there is agency commission - probably 15 - 20%.

    Council staff will eventually realise that the only way to get a pay rise, is to just hand in your notice and turn back up for work as a contractor, you get paid twice as much. Unless there are across the board 10% increases, the government will pay for its misjudgements and incompetence that way.
    This is a widespread trend across the Public sector.
    It is an incredibly inefficient and expensive way to run them.
    In 5 years time there'll be only managers. To manage the agency staff.
    If I had any sense I would take early retirement and come back as an Agency Locum on a couple of grand a day. Money for old rope it is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited June 2022

    Johnson was right to go to Ukraine. There's a war on.

    And his going there (again) has helped how, exactly?

    We all know he's only gone there because he's scared to campaign in the by-elections, and he needed a distraction from Geidt.
    Very odd storty that Mr J has got Mr Williamson (of spider fame) to step down at next election so Mr J can have his safe seat rather than Uxbridge. NO idea if it is true.

    https://twitter.com/GavinWilliamson/status/1537835965074513920?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1537835965074513920|twgr^|twcon^s1_&amp;ref_url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jun/17/boris-johnson-lord-geidt-uk-politics-live-latest?filterKeyEvents=falsepage=with:block-62ac6a6a8f08f2b5ecc6a2b4top-of-blog
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    My rule of thumb was that the hourly rate for a contractor was the annual salary for a staff person divided by 1,000.

    I don't know how accurate that is these days.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    Johnson could quite easily have done that on the phone from Doncaster. But no, he has to go out there and get his paws all over Zelensky. And this after Macron's prolonged mauling of the man yesterday. My heart goes out to him. To this Ukrainian president who is leading his nation in war when not having to fend off all these lascivious grins, firm squeezes and wandering hands.

    I quite enjoyed this vid of the German and Italian leaders on the Ukraine trip
    discussing why Macron had got the posh carriage and they were travelling steerage. And that their lingua franca is English :smile: .

    New footage of Scholz, Macron and Draghi's night train ride to Kyiv just dropped. 🇩🇪🇫🇷🇮🇹

    Scholz and Draghi are discussing that Macron's train compartment is much nicer than theirs, which is more "basic."

    "On the other hand," Draghi quips, Macron is "the President of the Union."

    https://twitter.com/vonderburchard/status/1537359934760923140


    The three them are wasted in politics, just think what they could have done for the world of stand up comedy.
    Such a good job we have a serious PM in the UK then, eh?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    🚨Don't tell Brenda from Bristol
    👀Oct 27 snap gen election floated by @BorisJohnson allies

    Why?
    💥'Wedge week' - NIProtocol, Rwanda, rail row - seen as success
    ⚖️Avoids Privileges Cttee, Covid Inquiry, 1922 confidence vote

    #WaughOnPolitics in yr inbox

    inews.co.uk/opinion/tory-p…

    It's on

    The last week has been a success?

    Can we check the aircon in the Westminster bunker?

    The heat seems to be sending them mad.

    (The best thing for the Conservative Party might be a quick, and quickly thrown, election. Dump the World Of Pain on the Otherlot Party, aim to bounce back in 2027.

    But that means admitting how screwed they are if they wait, even until Advent 2024. And it limits Johnson's tenure. Which is why he won't want to go early. Because he might well lose.)
    Best possible result for the Tories is 310 seats, let Labour run a clown college collective clusterfuck minority admin and destroy them in the inevitable election about 18 months later.
    And a very possible result on a very narrow tory lead if they can get there
    Thats if we are playing fuck the country, what about the party?
    If the Conservatives get that close to a majority then they get put back into bat and Starmer resigns. There's absolutely nothing to stop Labour from acknowledging that they've lost the election, giving the Government six more months to be generally useless and screw up, and then pick its moment to call a vote of confidence and have a rematch with someone else in charge.

    We don't get a Labour minority until the two large parties are at least somewhere close to parity and Labour can therefore get comfortably over the finishing line with the help of only one or two partners. They're not going to be stupid enough to leave themselves having to try to finesse everything with a constellation of six or seven parties.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    Don't know if this has been covered yet:

    "The Prime Minister has offered to launch a major training operation for Ukrainian forces, with the potential to train up to 10,000 soldiers every 120 days."

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-offer-major-training-programme-for-ukrainian-forces-as-prime-minister-hails-their-victorious-determination

    Quite a commitment.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    My rule of thumb was that the hourly rate for a contractor was the annual salary for a staff person divided by 1,000.

    I don't know how accurate that is these days.

    That isn't a bad ball park figure.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    edited June 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    May was chosen on merit.

    Not her merit, mind, but that of her opponents
    I believe very strongly that had her opponent been selected, we'd have enjoyed a far more fruitful time politically since then than we did.
    Because Leadsom was able to reach across both party lines and the bitterness created by the referendum, and could forge a united view on Brexit?

    Not seeing it myself, but it's good to have a view.
    I think I agree with @Luckyguy1983, but for different reasons.

    May would have won, because Leadsom was clearly mad and deluded. After all, the Conservative Party wasn't as Brexit Puritan then as it became.

    And having won in a real (but unbalanced) fight, May would have been in a stronger position to push her vision through. Winning by default weakened her.
    Since she held down several Ministerial positions subsequently, and is still a respected MP, I think it's pretty clear that 'mad and deluded' here translates fairly simply as 'opposed to my own world view'. Reading on to find apparently unironic references to May and 'vision' on the same sentence, I'm not really sure what to engage with here in terms of a serious argument. I am not one of the lady's detractors - she did her best, but visionary she was not. And in the end she was cruelly found wanting.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    When/if Starmer falls how Labour are going to decide between this guy and one of the top women for leader is going to be v interesting.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1537780992378822657

    Picking a leader because they are a woman rather than on merit gives you Julia Gillard, Theresa May, Kim Campbell or Valerie Pecresse or Edith Cresson or Kezia Dugale. If Streeting is the best candidate in a future Labour leadership election he is the best candidate.

    In any case we have already had a woman PM but not had an openly homosexual PM like Streeting
    May was chosen on merit.

    Not her merit, mind, but that of her opponents
    I believe very strongly that had her opponent been selected, we'd have enjoyed a far more fruitful time politically since then than we did.
    Because Leadsom was able to reach across both party lines and the bitterness created by the referendum, and could forge a united view on Brexit?

    Not seeing it myself, but it's good to have a view.
    I think I agree with @Luckyguy1983, but for different reasons.

    May would have won, because Leadsom was clearly mad and deluded. After all, the Conservative Party wasn't as Brexit Puritan then as it became.

    And having won in a real (but unbalanced) fight, May would have been in a stronger position to push her vision through. Winning by default weakened her.
    Biggest mistake Theresa May made when she became party leader and PM was to sack George Osborne in the petty way she did, she should have kept him in a senior role in Cabinet and sacked her two closest advisers instead. Osborne was far more politically astute than those two put together..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited June 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Johnson was right to go to Ukraine. There's a war on.

    And his going there (again) has helped how, exactly?

    We all know he's only gone there because he's scared to campaign in the by-elections, and he needed a distraction from Geidt.
    Very odd storty that Mr J has got Mr Williamson (of spider fame) to step down at next election so Mr J can have his safe seat rather than Uxbridge. NO idea if it is true.

    https://twitter.com/GavinWilliamson/status/1537835965074513920?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1537835965074513920|twgr^|twcon^s1_&amp;ref_url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jun/17/boris-johnson-lord-geidt-uk-politics-live-latest?filterKeyEvents=falsepage=with:block-62ac6a6a8f08f2b5ecc6a2b4top-of-blog
    That's Sir Gavin Williamson to you.

    ...and it looks like Johnson may have forgotten to tell Gav of the sacrifice he is going to make.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Why should it be newsworthy that a day in mid-June is the hottest of the year so far? Summer is here. That's what is meant to happen.

    If it was the case in November, that would be a story.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    edited June 2022

    Johnson was right to go to Ukraine. There's a war on.

    And his going there (again) has helped how, exactly?

    We all know he's only gone there because he's scared to campaign in the by-elections, and he needed a distraction from Geidt.
    Quite obviously so. He didn't want to be booed by the NRG for saying "you're on your own, there's no money"

    No need for the PM to go to Ukraine, it isn't as if he has any grasp of detail, that needs Wallace for policy, and some senior MoD and Army staff for the details.

    Think of Kyiv as a very large fridge to hide in.
This discussion has been closed.