Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Ideally, she would try being to be polite about residents anywhere in the UK, whether they have a Tory MP or not.
Ideally but she could be as rude as she liked about Islington or Bristol or Manchester or Glasgow and it wouldn't matter to the Tories as they have zero MPs there and zero chance of winning any.
Boris however needs to hold the Tory seats in Birmingham and Blackpool to keep his majority
Firstly, you do know people from Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow sometimes move, don't you? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of proud Bristolians, Mancunians, and Glaswegians in Tory seats.
You're also not really right about Tory prospects in these areas. Bristol NW was Tory until 2017 for instance - it's clearly not a "must win" as they won in 2019 without it. But it's an area where they are reasonably competitive. There are also areas like Filton & Bradley Stoke, and Kingswood, which aren't within Bristol City Council but clearly include substantial suburbs contiguous with Bristol - it's their city too.
Post Brexit Bristol NW is not really competitive for the Tories, they got just 38% there in 2019, 5% worse than nationally when they won a landslide.
Bristol voted 61% Remain while Blackpool voted 67% Leave
Brexit is done we have moved on.
It isn't, on the latest Yougov 56% of Leave voters are still voting Conservative but only 16% of Remain voters are voting Conservative
In the 2019 General Election, it was 74%, so that's 18% down. The Tories are also slightly down amongst Remainers (19% to 16%) as they are much less popular overall. But still, whether you look at it absolutely or proportionately, that's a big shift.
Mexican Pete is joking about "Brexit is done, we have moved on". It's a fun reference to the Tory Party line on the matter... I know you don't really do humour, but I hope this helps.
However, it is also true that it's a fading issue in polling - not dead by any means, but clearly fading.
So the Tories still win over half of Leavers but are even less popular with Remainers than they were in 2019.
Your Brexit vote remains the key determinant of voting intention, more than class and even more than age now. On the same Yougov poll the Tories are on only 32% of middle class ABC1s and 52% with over 65s but still on 56% of those who voted Leave in 2016
Nobody on this thread is seriously saying Brexit doesn't matter as a factor in voting, HYUFD.
As I patiently explained to you as one of PB's hard of humour contributors, Mexican Pete was making a little joke.
The point is that it is significantly less important than in 2019. That's demonstrated by the polls and by real votes - e.g. the swing in North Shropshire being larger than in Chesham & Amersham (noting I called out your lie about that matter).
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Ideally, she would try being to be polite about residents anywhere in the UK, whether they have a Tory MP or not.
Ideally but she could be as rude as she liked about Islington or Bristol or Manchester or Glasgow and it wouldn't matter to the Tories as they have zero MPs there and zero chance of winning any.
Boris however needs to hold the Tory seats in Birmingham and Blackpool to keep his majority
Firstly, you do know people from Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow sometimes move, don't you? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of proud Bristolians, Mancunians, and Glaswegians in Tory seats.
You're also not really right about Tory prospects in these areas. Bristol NW was Tory until 2017 for instance - it's clearly not a "must win" as they won in 2019 without it. But it's an area where they are reasonably competitive. There are also areas like Filton & Bradley Stoke, and Kingswood, which aren't within Bristol City Council but clearly include substantial suburbs contiguous with Bristol - it's their city too.
Post Brexit Bristol NW is not really competitive for the Tories, they got just 38% there in 2019, 5% worse than nationally when they won a landslide.
Bristol voted 61% Remain while Blackpool voted 67% Leave
Brexit is done we have moved on.
It isn't, on the latest Yougov 56% of Leave voters are still voting Conservative but only 16% of Remain voters are voting Conservative
And Bingo you immediately prove my point by not getting irony.
We should run a sweepstake on when you will ever understand a post by someone else.
Perhaps even you will understand that when the latest Yougov has 56% of Leave voters voting Conservative but only 52% of over 65s and 32% of ABC1s voting Conservative that a voter's Brexit vote is now the key factor determining whether they are still voting Tory or not. Not their class and not even their age
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
They wouldn't be the opposition, they would be extinct
No, the Tories core vote ie at least 30% also loves the Mogg
So the Tories still win over half of Leavers but are even less popular with Remainers than they were in 2016.
Your Brexit vote remains the key determinant of voting intention, more than class and even more than age now. On the same Yougov poll the Tories are on only 32% of middle class ABC1s and 52% with over 65s but still on 56% of those who voted Leave in 2016
I understand what you're saying but a similar thing has happened in Australia and to an extent America where they've had nothing equivalent to the EU Referendum.
The recent Federal election in Australia emphasised the cultural, economic and educational shift in voting patterns - the Coalition did better than the national trend in seats of less well educated and poorer people while Labor did disproportionately better in the seats of wealthier better educated people (though not as well as the Greens and some of the Teals).
I'd argue the EU Referendum illuminated what had been apparent for some time before and the 2019 GE emphasised it further - the core of the centre-right vote has moved from the traditional heartland of the wealthy and well-educated to the "white working class" while wealthier and better educated people are tending away from the Conservatives but not always to Labour (note the Greens and the LDs).
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
I find the decline in Rees-Mogg's reputation genuinely puzzling. To me he currently seems indistinguishable from who he was six or seven years ago, yet back then people were proclaiming him a genuine phenomenon. What happened?
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
They voted for IDS over the more electable Ken Clarke even if they voted for Cameron over Davis and Johnson over Hunt. It depends what mood they are in
Exactly, if one of the hard core Brexiteers gets through to the members then they will win I suspect.
Even IDS is a name being banded about apparently as an option to make sure a pure brexiteer gets through to membership.
It'll be Penny, she'll win, and she'll be the best PM since Thatch. I have spoken.
A recurrent wet dream of Tories is to find a new Maggie. They thought they had with May, and now their fantasies have moved on to Mordaunt. It is an unfair load to put on any candidate, but every female candidate gets landed with it.
Labour would discover Mordaunt is every bit as politically potent as Maggie.....
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
I find the decline in Rees-Mogg's reputation genuinely puzzling. To me he currently seems indistinguishable from who he was six or seven years ago, yet back then people were proclaiming him a genuine phenomenon. What happened?
When he was a backbencher making third rate jokes in a silly voice, he was harmless enough and people found him funny.
Given some power people realised he's actually a nasty, duplicitous, lazy, rude, arrogant and not very intelligent snob.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Ideally, she would try being to be polite about residents anywhere in the UK, whether they have a Tory MP or not.
Ideally but she could be as rude as she liked about Islington or Bristol or Manchester or Glasgow and it wouldn't matter to the Tories as they have zero MPs there and zero chance of winning any.
Boris however needs to hold the Tory seats in Birmingham and Blackpool to keep his majority
Firstly, you do know people from Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow sometimes move, don't you? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of proud Bristolians, Mancunians, and Glaswegians in Tory seats.
You're also not really right about Tory prospects in these areas. Bristol NW was Tory until 2017 for instance - it's clearly not a "must win" as they won in 2019 without it. But it's an area where they are reasonably competitive. There are also areas like Filton & Bradley Stoke, and Kingswood, which aren't within Bristol City Council but clearly include substantial suburbs contiguous with Bristol - it's their city too.
Post Brexit Bristol NW is not really competitive for the Tories, they got just 38% there in 2019, 5% worse than nationally when they won a landslide.
Bristol voted 61% Remain while Blackpool voted 67% Leave
Brexit is done we have moved on.
It isn't, on the latest Yougov 56% of Leave voters are still voting Conservative but only 16% of Remain voters are voting Conservative
And Bingo you immediately prove my point by not getting irony.
We should run a sweepstake on when you will ever understand a post by someone else.
Perhaps even you will understand that when the latest Yougov has 56% of Leave voters voting Conservative but only 52% of over 65s and 32% of ABC1s voting Conservative that a voter's Brexit vote is now the key factor determining whether they are still voting Tory or not. Not their class and not even their age
Oh for goodness sake you didn't even understand that post either.
This is mind boggling.
I was trying to explain to you that you responded to a post by @Mexicanpete as if he was being serious when he was actually making a joke at your expense.
And all I was doing was pointing out you have proved my point of again failing to completely understand a post particularly when someone is using irony to take the piss out of you.
Your lack of comprehension is off the scale. Is English your first language? Have you had a humour bypass?
No Stodge Saturday Patent today - keeping what embers I have alive for Royal Ascot starting on Tuesday. I was told by a friend to "bet the house on BAAEED" - I'd better not, Mrs Stodge might be upset if I have to tell her we'll be leaving in the car for a few days...
Catching up on the morning debate about the role of Monarchy in the political arena - we've had 70 years of public non-involvement from the Monarch and have come to perhaps assume this should be the natural order of things. I suspect had Edward VIII remained on the throne, it might have been very different.
The current line works as does so much else about the Monarchy but to nuance it slightly while the Monarch should be apolitical, should that extend to those in immediate line of succession? I've no problem with Prince Charles expressing his opinions (though it's quite clear a number don't like anything he says) - ditto Prince William (one presumes he's allowed to get away with it because he has a pretty wife and three children) and indeed one day Prince George etc but once they become Monarch the wall has to come up and any public opinions expressed have to be politically neutral and by definition fairly anodyne.
As to whether Charles will adhere to the current convention once he becomes King, once can but hope he has counselled wisely. Having a political opinion, by the way, is not the same as expressing concern in general terms about the environment, wildlife conservation etc.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Ideally, she would try being to be polite about residents anywhere in the UK, whether they have a Tory MP or not.
Ideally but she could be as rude as she liked about Islington or Bristol or Manchester or Glasgow and it wouldn't matter to the Tories as they have zero MPs there and zero chance of winning any.
Boris however needs to hold the Tory seats in Birmingham and Blackpool to keep his majority
Firstly, you do know people from Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow sometimes move, don't you? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of proud Bristolians, Mancunians, and Glaswegians in Tory seats.
You're also not really right about Tory prospects in these areas. Bristol NW was Tory until 2017 for instance - it's clearly not a "must win" as they won in 2019 without it. But it's an area where they are reasonably competitive. There are also areas like Filton & Bradley Stoke, and Kingswood, which aren't within Bristol City Council but clearly include substantial suburbs contiguous with Bristol - it's their city too.
Post Brexit Bristol NW is not really competitive for the Tories, they got just 38% there in 2019, 5% worse than nationally when they won a landslide.
Bristol voted 61% Remain while Blackpool voted 67% Leave
Brexit is done we have moved on.
It isn't, on the latest Yougov 56% of Leave voters are still voting Conservative but only 16% of Remain voters are voting Conservative
And Bingo you immediately prove my point by not getting irony.
We should run a sweepstake on when you will ever understand a post by someone else.
Perhaps even you will understand that when the latest Yougov has 56% of Leave voters voting Conservative but only 52% of over 65s and 32% of ABC1s voting Conservative that a voter's Brexit vote is now the key factor determining whether they are still voting Tory or not. Not their class and not even their age
I suspect the key factor is how their next door neighbour voted if you ever did that analysis.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
I find the decline in Rees-Mogg's reputation genuinely puzzling. To me he currently seems indistinguishable from who he was six or seven years ago, yet back then people were proclaiming him a genuine phenomenon. What happened?
He was put in charge of something and his inadequacies became visible to all.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Edgbaston isn't like it was back in Jill Knight's day.
Heather Wheeler strikes me as an obnoxious snob. It doesn't mean she isn't right though.
Birmingham: what the Luftwaffe missed, the town planners hit.
Blackpool: Where were the Luftwaffe?
Edgbaston used to be the only reasonably safe Tory seat in Birmingham. It is the wealthiest and most middle class part of the city.
However since it went Labour in 1997 it has stayed Labour and it was more working class Birmingham Northfield which the Tories gained in 2019, not Edgbaston reflecting the more working class voter coalition Boris built.
That also explains why working class Blackpool has a Tory MP and very middle class Richmond Park, Chesham and Amersham and St Albans now don't
I know Richmond Park very well and I would say it's more upper class than middle. If you can stretch the definition of middle class to include RP, it's definitely right at the top end of it.
But then everybody has their own definition of class.
So the Tories still win over half of Leavers but are even less popular with Remainers than they were in 2016.
Your Brexit vote remains the key determinant of voting intention, more than class and even more than age now. On the same Yougov poll the Tories are on only 32% of middle class ABC1s and 52% with over 65s but still on 56% of those who voted Leave in 2016
I understand what you're saying but a similar thing has happened in Australia and to an extent America where they've had nothing equivalent to the EU Referendum.
The recent Federal election in Australia emphasised the cultural, economic and educational shift in voting patterns - the Coalition did better than the national trend in seats of less well educated and poorer people while Labor did disproportionately better in the seats of wealthier better educated people (though not as well as the Greens and some of the Teals).
I'd argue the EU Referendum illuminated what had been apparent for some time before and the 2019 GE emphasised it further - the core of the centre-right vote has moved from the traditional heartland of the wealthy and well-educated to the "white working class" while wealthier and better educated people are tending away from the Conservatives but not always to Labour (note the Greens and the LDs).
I would agree, the core vote for the right across the western world is now the white skilled working and lower middle class and for traditional conservative parties it is pensioners. Upper middle class, wealthy graduates who used to vote for conservatives and centre right parties now increasingly vote for liberals like Macron and Trudeau and the LDs here, the Democrats in the US or Independents in Australia
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
They voted for IDS over the more electable Ken Clarke even if they voted for Cameron over Davis and Johnson over Hunt. It depends what mood they are in
Exactly, if one of the hard core Brexiteers gets through to the members then they will win I suspect.
Even IDS is a name being banded about apparently as an option to make sure a pure brexiteer gets through to membership.
It'll be Penny, she'll win, and she'll be the best PM since Thatch. I have spoken.
A recurrent wet dream of Tories is to find a new Maggie. They thought they had with May, and now their fantasies have moved on to Mordaunt. It is an unfair load to put on any candidate, but every female candidate gets landed with it.
Labour would discover Mordaunt is every bit as politically potent as Maggie.....
I can't say I've really much knowledge of Penny Mordaunt. But some googling confirmed a vague recollection that she once peppered a speech delivered in the Commons chamber with cock references for a bet. I suppose that demonstrates something, but I can't think what.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Edgbaston isn't like it was back in Jill Knight's day.
Heather Wheeler strikes me as an obnoxious snob. It doesn't mean she isn't right though.
Birmingham: what the Luftwaffe missed, the town planners hit.
Blackpool: Where were the Luftwaffe?
Edgbaston used to be the only reasonably safe Tory seat in Birmingham. It is the wealthiest and most middle class part of the city.
However since it went Labour in 1997 it has stayed Labour and it was more working class Birmingham Northfield which the Tories gained in 2019, not Edgbaston reflecting the more working class voter coalition Boris built.
That also explains why working class Blackpool has a Tory MP and very middle class Richmond Park, Chesham and Amersham and St Albans now don't
I know Richmond Park very well and I would say it's more upper class than middle. If you can stretch the definition of middle class to include RP, it's definitely right at the top end of it.
But then everybody has their own definition of class.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
They voted for IDS over the more electable Ken Clarke even if they voted for Cameron over Davis and Johnson over Hunt. It depends what mood they are in
Exactly, if one of the hard core Brexiteers gets through to the members then they will win I suspect.
Even IDS is a name being banded about apparently as an option to make sure a pure brexiteer gets through to membership.
It'll be Penny, she'll win, and she'll be the best PM since Thatch. I have spoken.
A recurrent wet dream of Tories is to find a new Maggie. They thought they had with May, and now their fantasies have moved on to Mordaunt. It is an unfair load to put on any candidate, but every female candidate gets landed with it.
Labour would discover Mordaunt is every bit as politically potent as Maggie.....
Mark what is your view on T&H now? If you feel it imprudent to say I get it. Have you been much recently?
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
They voted for IDS over the more electable Ken Clarke even if they voted for Cameron over Davis and Johnson over Hunt. It depends what mood they are in
You are forever living in the past and ignoring the future
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Ideally, she would try being to be polite about residents anywhere in the UK, whether they have a Tory MP or not.
Ideally but she could be as rude as she liked about Islington or Bristol or Manchester or Glasgow and it wouldn't matter to the Tories as they have zero MPs there and zero chance of winning any.
Boris however needs to hold the Tory seats in Birmingham and Blackpool to keep his majority
Firstly, you do know people from Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow sometimes move, don't you? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of proud Bristolians, Mancunians, and Glaswegians in Tory seats.
You're also not really right about Tory prospects in these areas. Bristol NW was Tory until 2017 for instance - it's clearly not a "must win" as they won in 2019 without it. But it's an area where they are reasonably competitive. There are also areas like Filton & Bradley Stoke, and Kingswood, which aren't within Bristol City Council but clearly include substantial suburbs contiguous with Bristol - it's their city too.
Post Brexit Bristol NW is not really competitive for the Tories, they got just 38% there in 2019, 5% worse than nationally when they won a landslide.
Bristol voted 61% Remain while Blackpool voted 67% Leave
Brexit is done we have moved on.
It isn't, on the latest Yougov 56% of Leave voters are still voting Conservative but only 16% of Remain voters are voting Conservative
And Bingo you immediately prove my point by not getting irony.
We should run a sweepstake on when you will ever understand a post by someone else.
Perhaps even you will understand that when the latest Yougov has 56% of Leave voters voting Conservative but only 52% of over 65s and 32% of ABC1s voting Conservative that a voter's Brexit vote is now the key factor determining whether they are still voting Tory or not. Not their class and not even their age
Oh for goodness sake you didn't even understand that post either.
This is mind boggling.
I was trying to explain to you that you responded to a post by @Mexicanpete as if he was being serious when he was actually making a joke at your expense.
And all I was doing was pointing out you have proved my point of again failing to completely understand a post particularly when someone is using irony to take the piss out of you.
Your lack of comprehension is off the scale. Is English your first language? Have you had a humour bypass?
And yet again Kjh posts another pompous rude post attacking me without discussing the topic at all.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I hold you in high regard Mark even though you are an opponent. You have just gone up several levels.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Edgbaston isn't like it was back in Jill Knight's day.
Heather Wheeler strikes me as an obnoxious snob. It doesn't mean she isn't right though.
Birmingham: what the Luftwaffe missed, the town planners hit.
Blackpool: Where were the Luftwaffe?
Edgbaston used to be the only reasonably safe Tory seat in Birmingham. It is the wealthiest and most middle class part of the city.
However since it went Labour in 1997 it has stayed Labour and it was more working class Birmingham Northfield which the Tories gained in 2019, not Edgbaston reflecting the more working class voter coalition Boris built.
That also explains why working class Blackpool has a Tory MP and very middle class Richmond Park, Chesham and Amersham and St Albans now don't
I know Richmond Park very well and I would say it's more upper class than middle. If you can stretch the definition of middle class to include RP, it's definitely right at the top end of it.
But then everybody has their own definition of class.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
They voted for IDS over the more electable Ken Clarke even if they voted for Cameron over Davis and Johnson over Hunt. It depends what mood they are in
Exactly, if one of the hard core Brexiteers gets through to the members then they will win I suspect.
Even IDS is a name being banded about apparently as an option to make sure a pure brexiteer gets through to membership.
It'll be Penny, she'll win, and she'll be the best PM since Thatch. I have spoken.
A recurrent wet dream of Tories is to find a new Maggie. They thought they had with May, and now their fantasies have moved on to Mordaunt. It is an unfair load to put on any candidate, but every female candidate gets landed with it.
Labour would discover Mordaunt is every bit as politically potent as Maggie.....
Mark what is your view on T&H now? If you feel it imprudent to say I get it. Have you been much recently?
I have not been recently. I would not want to put in the effort and be the person responsible for the Tories holding by one vote - and the bragging rights that would deliver to Boris.
I hope our candidate wins. She seems a decent candidate, certainly more so than the LibDem bloke. I would work to get her elected in a General Election. But it will not be on the back of my efforts this time.
I think it will need to be a voter strike to remove Boris as there was one which removed May. This time I suspect it will not be Farage but the Can't be Arsed party that will do for a Conservative PM.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Ideally, she would try being to be polite about residents anywhere in the UK, whether they have a Tory MP or not.
Ideally but she could be as rude as she liked about Islington or Bristol or Manchester or Glasgow and it wouldn't matter to the Tories as they have zero MPs there and zero chance of winning any.
Boris however needs to hold the Tory seats in Birmingham and Blackpool to keep his majority
Firstly, you do know people from Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow sometimes move, don't you? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of proud Bristolians, Mancunians, and Glaswegians in Tory seats.
You're also not really right about Tory prospects in these areas. Bristol NW was Tory until 2017 for instance - it's clearly not a "must win" as they won in 2019 without it. But it's an area where they are reasonably competitive. There are also areas like Filton & Bradley Stoke, and Kingswood, which aren't within Bristol City Council but clearly include substantial suburbs contiguous with Bristol - it's their city too.
Post Brexit Bristol NW is not really competitive for the Tories, they got just 38% there in 2019, 5% worse than nationally when they won a landslide.
Bristol voted 61% Remain while Blackpool voted 67% Leave
Brexit is done we have moved on.
It isn't, on the latest Yougov 56% of Leave voters are still voting Conservative but only 16% of Remain voters are voting Conservative
And Bingo you immediately prove my point by not getting irony.
We should run a sweepstake on when you will ever understand a post by someone else.
Perhaps even you will understand that when the latest Yougov has 56% of Leave voters voting Conservative but only 52% of over 65s and 32% of ABC1s voting Conservative that a voter's Brexit vote is now the key factor determining whether they are still voting Tory or not. Not their class and not even their age
Oh for goodness sake you didn't even understand that post either.
This is mind boggling.
I was trying to explain to you that you responded to a post by @Mexicanpete as if he was being serious when he was actually making a joke at your expense.
And all I was doing was pointing out you have proved my point of again failing to completely understand a post particularly when someone is using irony to take the piss out of you.
Your lack of comprehension is off the scale. Is English your first language? Have you had a humour bypass?
And yet again Kjh posts another pompous rude post attacking me without discussing the topic at all.
Says everything you need to know about him!
I think @MarqueeMark says everything about you. You really are very stupid. I mean a level of stupidity that is difficult to achieve. No doubt however you will also manage to misunderstand Marks post as you have done about everyone else's posts.
You do more harm to the Conservatives that I could ever do as a LD.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Edgbaston isn't like it was back in Jill Knight's day.
Heather Wheeler strikes me as an obnoxious snob. It doesn't mean she isn't right though.
Birmingham: what the Luftwaffe missed, the town planners hit.
Blackpool: Where were the Luftwaffe?
Edgbaston used to be the only reasonably safe Tory seat in Birmingham. It is the wealthiest and most middle class part of the city.
However since it went Labour in 1997 it has stayed Labour and it was more working class Birmingham Northfield which the Tories gained in 2019, not Edgbaston reflecting the more working class voter coalition Boris built.
That also explains why working class Blackpool has a Tory MP and very middle class Richmond Park, Chesham and Amersham and St Albans now don't
I know Richmond Park very well and I would say it's more upper class than middle. If you can stretch the definition of middle class to include RP, it's definitely right at the top end of it.
But then everybody has their own definition of class.
Richmond Park is comfortably in the top 10% seats for least deprived, but is not at the very top. The top three are:
(3) Chesham and Amersham (2) North East Hampshire (1) Wokingham
Interestingly, Richmond Park is therefore only third on the list of least deprived LD seats.
Would anyone like to guess which seat is second?
Ed Davey's?
I may well be corrected on this, but I'd be very surprised if Kingston had less deprivation than Richmond Park. It has some fairly tricky areas like Chessington. I'd say maybe somewhere like St Albans or even a wildcard like Edinburgh West (I don't really know that seat - I know it has posh areas in it but possibly more of a mix).
EDIT: I stand corrected. I'm a little surprised it's OxWaB, which is obviously very nice but Abingdon isn't uniformally posh - although I suppose nowhere is.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Edgbaston isn't like it was back in Jill Knight's day.
Heather Wheeler strikes me as an obnoxious snob. It doesn't mean she isn't right though.
Birmingham: what the Luftwaffe missed, the town planners hit.
Blackpool: Where were the Luftwaffe?
Edgbaston used to be the only reasonably safe Tory seat in Birmingham. It is the wealthiest and most middle class part of the city.
However since it went Labour in 1997 it has stayed Labour and it was more working class Birmingham Northfield which the Tories gained in 2019, not Edgbaston reflecting the more working class voter coalition Boris built.
That also explains why working class Blackpool has a Tory MP and very middle class Richmond Park, Chesham and Amersham and St Albans now don't
I know Richmond Park very well and I would say it's more upper class than middle. If you can stretch the definition of middle class to include RP, it's definitely right at the top end of it.
But then everybody has their own definition of class.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
The Scottish Tories don't seem to have worked that out yet, or at least Mr Ross changed his mind before he worked through the logical chain. Though a similar idea has been aired in the past.
The problem for the Scottish Tories is that breaking away from Westminster smells just a bit like independence itself.
On balance I think it would be positive for them, but the read from Germany is that a regional sister party doesn’t seem to get the opportunity to provide a PM, which seems unsatisfactory.
Not that we’ve had a Scots Tory PM since Alec Douglas-Home.
It does rather obviate their USP whcih is subordination to London. Especially after the last few years, and especially now. "What, you distrust London under Boris so much you split off from them?" If they had done it when originally proposed, that would have been a weaker criticism.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
They wouldn't be the opposition, they would be extinct
No, the Tories core vote ie at least 30% also loves the Mogg
But Moggsy alienates possible converts.
Hence why whenever there is an election on, the Tory party pays to send him off to a desert island somewhere very far away.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
They voted for IDS over the more electable Ken Clarke even if they voted for Cameron over Davis and Johnson over Hunt. It depends what mood they are in
Exactly, if one of the hard core Brexiteers gets through to the members then they will win I suspect.
Even IDS is a name being banded about apparently as an option to make sure a pure brexiteer gets through to membership.
It'll be Penny, she'll win, and she'll be the best PM since Thatch. I have spoken.
A recurrent wet dream of Tories is to find a new Maggie. They thought they had with May, and now their fantasies have moved on to Mordaunt. It is an unfair load to put on any candidate, but every female candidate gets landed with it.
Labour would discover Mordaunt is every bit as politically potent as Maggie.....
Mark what is your view on T&H now? If you feel it imprudent to say I get it. Have you been much recently?
I have not been recently. I would not want to put in the effort and be the person responsible for the Tories holding by one vote - and the bragging rights that would deliver to Boris.
I hope our candidate wins. She seems a decent candidate, certainly more so than the LibDem bloke. I would work to get her elected in a General Election. But it will not be on the back of my efforts this time.
I think it will need to be a voter strike to remove Boris as there was one which removed May. This time I suspect it will not be Farage but the Can't be Arsed party that will do for a Conservative PM.
Cheers. She has a good CV. Haven't heard anything from her, but I assume they are keeping her away from the press to avoid the obvious questions on Boris which would be a nightmare for any candidate.
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
"Out there"?
Judging by some comments on this thread, they're in here.
I tend to assume @HYUFD is representative enough of the Party-formerly-known-as-the-Conservatives.
In my opinion, you’d have to be slightly mad or extremely inert to “survive” the last several years in the party.
Having said that, 20% of @HYUFD’s posting is pretty obvious trolling and his suggestions of a Rees-Mogg or IDS leadership surely fall into that category.
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
No Stodge Saturday Patent today - keeping what embers I have alive for Royal Ascot starting on Tuesday. I was told by a friend to "bet the house on BAAEED" - I'd better not, Mrs Stodge might be upset if I have to tell her we'll be leaving in the car for a few days...
Catching up on the morning debate about the role of Monarchy in the political arena - we've had 70 years of public non-involvement from the Monarch and have come to perhaps assume this should be the natural order of things. I suspect had Edward VIII remained on the throne, it might have been very different.
The current line works as does so much else about the Monarchy but to nuance it slightly while the Monarch should be apolitical, should that extend to those in immediate line of succession? I've no problem with Prince Charles expressing his opinions (though it's quite clear a number don't like anything he says) - ditto Prince William (one presumes he's allowed to get away with it because he has a pretty wife and three children) and indeed one day Prince George etc but once they become Monarch the wall has to come up and any public opinions expressed have to be politically neutral and by definition fairly anodyne.
As to whether Charles will adhere to the current convention once he becomes King, once can but hope he has counselled wisely. Having a political opinion, by the way, is not the same as expressing concern in general terms about the environment, wildlife conservation etc.
Also highly sensitive would be any interfering in legislation, taxation, etc. to his and his family's benefit. I see no reason why the RF should be treated differently from any other yaxpayer or person or business in this respect.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Ideally, she would try being to be polite about residents anywhere in the UK, whether they have a Tory MP or not.
Ideally but she could be as rude as she liked about Islington or Bristol or Manchester or Glasgow and it wouldn't matter to the Tories as they have zero MPs there and zero chance of winning any.
Boris however needs to hold the Tory seats in Birmingham and Blackpool to keep his majority
Firstly, you do know people from Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow sometimes move, don't you? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of proud Bristolians, Mancunians, and Glaswegians in Tory seats.
You're also not really right about Tory prospects in these areas. Bristol NW was Tory until 2017 for instance - it's clearly not a "must win" as they won in 2019 without it. But it's an area where they are reasonably competitive. There are also areas like Filton & Bradley Stoke, and Kingswood, which aren't within Bristol City Council but clearly include substantial suburbs contiguous with Bristol - it's their city too.
Post Brexit Bristol NW is not really competitive for the Tories, they got just 38% there in 2019, 5% worse than nationally when they won a landslide.
Bristol voted 61% Remain while Blackpool voted 67% Leave
Brexit is done we have moved on.
What a stupid post.
But I know you are brighter than that, so you are playing games. Like distracting HY whilst accomplice picks his pocket.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Edgbaston isn't like it was back in Jill Knight's day.
Heather Wheeler strikes me as an obnoxious snob. It doesn't mean she isn't right though.
Birmingham: what the Luftwaffe missed, the town planners hit.
Blackpool: Where were the Luftwaffe?
Edgbaston used to be the only reasonably safe Tory seat in Birmingham. It is the wealthiest and most middle class part of the city.
However since it went Labour in 1997 it has stayed Labour and it was more working class Birmingham Northfield which the Tories gained in 2019, not Edgbaston reflecting the more working class voter coalition Boris built.
That also explains why working class Blackpool has a Tory MP and very middle class Richmond Park, Chesham and Amersham and St Albans now don't
I know Richmond Park very well and I would say it's more upper class than middle. If you can stretch the definition of middle class to include RP, it's definitely right at the top end of it.
But then everybody has their own definition of class.
Richmond Park is comfortably in the top 10% seats for least deprived, but is not at the very top. The top three are:
(3) Chesham and Amersham (2) North East Hampshire (1) Wokingham
Interestingly, Richmond Park is therefore only third on the list of least deprived LD seats.
Would anyone like to guess which seat is second?
A strategic blind alley the LDs have got themselves into is that they now represent a sprinkling of the most educated and affluent seats - in contrast to the old days when they had the Celtic fringe and SW radicalism plus a handful of relatively deprived urban seats - to fall back on. This makes it more difficult for them to pitch the sort of radical, redistributionist agenda (remember they were the first party to float high value property taxation) that arguable the country needs.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
They voted for IDS over the more electable Ken Clarke even if they voted for Cameron over Davis and Johnson over Hunt. It depends what mood they are in
Exactly, if one of the hard core Brexiteers gets through to the members then they will win I suspect.
Even IDS is a name being banded about apparently as an option to make sure a pure brexiteer gets through to membership.
It'll be Penny, she'll win, and she'll be the best PM since Thatch. I have spoken.
A recurrent wet dream of Tories is to find a new Maggie. They thought they had with May, and now their fantasies have moved on to Mordaunt. It is an unfair load to put on any candidate, but every female candidate gets landed with it.
Labour would discover Mordaunt is every bit as politically potent as Maggie.....
I can't say I've really much knowledge of Penny Mordaunt. But some googling confirmed a vague recollection that she once peppered a speech delivered in the Commons chamber with cock references for a bet. I suppose that demonstrates something, but I can't think what.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You move in your own narrow circles and unfortunately for you live in a fantasy world
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Ideally, she would try being to be polite about residents anywhere in the UK, whether they have a Tory MP or not.
Ideally but she could be as rude as she liked about Islington or Bristol or Manchester or Glasgow and it wouldn't matter to the Tories as they have zero MPs there and zero chance of winning any.
Boris however needs to hold the Tory seats in Birmingham and Blackpool to keep his majority
Firstly, you do know people from Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow sometimes move, don't you? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of proud Bristolians, Mancunians, and Glaswegians in Tory seats.
You're also not really right about Tory prospects in these areas. Bristol NW was Tory until 2017 for instance - it's clearly not a "must win" as they won in 2019 without it. But it's an area where they are reasonably competitive. There are also areas like Filton & Bradley Stoke, and Kingswood, which aren't within Bristol City Council but clearly include substantial suburbs contiguous with Bristol - it's their city too.
Post Brexit Bristol NW is not really competitive for the Tories, they got just 38% there in 2019, 5% worse than nationally when they won a landslide.
Bristol voted 61% Remain while Blackpool voted 67% Leave
Brexit is done we have moved on.
It isn't, on the latest Yougov 56% of Leave voters are still voting Conservative but only 16% of Remain voters are voting Conservative
And Bingo you immediately prove my point by not getting irony.
We should run a sweepstake on when you will ever understand a post by someone else.
Perhaps even you will understand that when the latest Yougov has 56% of Leave voters voting Conservative but only 52% of over 65s and 32% of ABC1s voting Conservative that a voter's Brexit vote is now the key factor determining whether they are still voting Tory or not. Not their class and not even their age
Oh for goodness sake you didn't even understand that post either.
This is mind boggling.
I was trying to explain to you that you responded to a post by @Mexicanpete as if he was being serious when he was actually making a joke at your expense.
And all I was doing was pointing out you have proved my point of again failing to completely understand a post particularly when someone is using irony to take the piss out of you.
Your lack of comprehension is off the scale. Is English your first language? Have you had a humour bypass?
And yet again Kjh posts another pompous rude post attacking me without discussing the topic at all.
Says everything you need to know about him!
Why do you accuse everyone who criticises you of being pompous?
I don't see kjh's post is pompous. Acerbic, yes, but that's different.
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
It's a long old road from life, to intelligent life. I have always liked Stephen J Gould's point that earth could quite conceivably have pottered along full of interesting stuff like dinosaurs and so on but not of fire masterers and wheel inventors, until it got too hot for life at all. Even getting to the dinosaur stage is work.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
You seem to have forgotten:
1. electing IDS was a nuclear option to stop uber-Europhile Ken Clarke getting the top job; 2. IDS was never allowed to represent the Party at a general election; 3. in the 21 years since his election, we have had Brexit and 4. many of those who voted then have since died.
IDS would never get to the membership. Tory MPs really are much smarter than that.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Edgbaston isn't like it was back in Jill Knight's day.
Heather Wheeler strikes me as an obnoxious snob. It doesn't mean she isn't right though.
Birmingham: what the Luftwaffe missed, the town planners hit.
Blackpool: Where were the Luftwaffe?
Edgbaston used to be the only reasonably safe Tory seat in Birmingham. It is the wealthiest and most middle class part of the city.
However since it went Labour in 1997 it has stayed Labour and it was more working class Birmingham Northfield which the Tories gained in 2019, not Edgbaston reflecting the more working class voter coalition Boris built.
That also explains why working class Blackpool has a Tory MP and very middle class Richmond Park, Chesham and Amersham and St Albans now don't
I know Richmond Park very well and I would say it's more upper class than middle. If you can stretch the definition of middle class to include RP, it's definitely right at the top end of it.
But then everybody has their own definition of class.
Richmond Park is comfortably in the top 10% seats for least deprived, but is not at the very top. The top three are:
(3) Chesham and Amersham (2) North East Hampshire (1) Wokingham
Interestingly, Richmond Park is therefore only third on the list of least deprived LD seats.
Would anyone like to guess which seat is second?
Ed Davey's?
I may well be corrected on this, but I'd be very surprised if Kingston had less deprivation than Richmond Park. It has some fairly tricky areas like Chessington. I'd say maybe somewhere like St Albans or even a wildcard like Edinburgh West (I don't really know that seat - I know it has posh areas in it but possibly more of a mix).
EDIT: I stand corrected. I'm a little surprised it's OxWaB, which is obviously very nice but Abingdon isn't uniformally posh - although I suppose nowhere is.
The opposite of deprivation is not so much poshness as "doing fine". The typical student dorm would be less deprived than an estate of million-pound houses with elderly residents enduring complications of old age. [Edit, here I mean the censal definitions: "Employment, Education, Health and disability, and Household overcrowding".]
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You move in your own narrow circles and unfortunately for you live in a fantasy world
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Edgbaston isn't like it was back in Jill Knight's day.
Heather Wheeler strikes me as an obnoxious snob. It doesn't mean she isn't right though.
Birmingham: what the Luftwaffe missed, the town planners hit.
Blackpool: Where were the Luftwaffe?
Edgbaston used to be the only reasonably safe Tory seat in Birmingham. It is the wealthiest and most middle class part of the city.
However since it went Labour in 1997 it has stayed Labour and it was more working class Birmingham Northfield which the Tories gained in 2019, not Edgbaston reflecting the more working class voter coalition Boris built.
That also explains why working class Blackpool has a Tory MP and very middle class Richmond Park, Chesham and Amersham and St Albans now don't
I know Richmond Park very well and I would say it's more upper class than middle. If you can stretch the definition of middle class to include RP, it's definitely right at the top end of it.
But then everybody has their own definition of class.
Richmond Park is comfortably in the top 10% seats for least deprived, but is not at the very top. The top three are:
(3) Chesham and Amersham (2) North East Hampshire (1) Wokingham
Interestingly, Richmond Park is therefore only third on the list of least deprived LD seats.
Would anyone like to guess which seat is second?
A strategic blind alley the LDs have got themselves into is that they now represent a sprinkling of the most educated and affluent seats - in contrast to the old days when they had the Celtic fringe and SW radicalism plus a handful of relatively deprived urban seats - to fall back on. This makes it more difficult for them to pitch the sort of radical, redistributionist agenda (remember they were the first party to float high value property taxation) that arguable the country needs.
Why should the Liberals represent a radical, redistributionist agenda? That should be Labour's job. The Liberals are now more proper liberals again ie economically and socially liberal and the party of high earning and wealthy graduates
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
You seem to have forgotten:
1. electing IDS was a nuclear option to stop uber-Europhile Ken Clarke getting the top job; 2. IDS was never allowed to represent the Party at a general election; 3. in the 21 years since his election, we have had Brexit and 4. many of those who voted then have since died.
IDS would never get to the membership. Tory MPs really are much smarter than that.
I hate to disagree with you, but he *did* get to the membership. If MPs had had the sense to give the second slot to Portillo, things would have been rather different.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
As well as the fact that Ed Miliband had been a Cabinet minister throughout Brown's Premiership and, although he ran a little to the left of his brother, wasn't really an "ideological purity" choice, he also didn't win amongst Labour members.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
RM is a non posh person's idea of what a posh person is like. Which makes him catnip to Tory members and poison to the electorate more widely
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
You seem to have forgotten:
1. electing IDS was a nuclear option to stop uber-Europhile Ken Clarke getting the top job; 2. IDS was never allowed to represent the Party at a general election; 3. in the 21 years since his election, we have had Brexit and 4. many of those who voted then have since died.
IDS would never get to the membership. Tory MPs really are much smarter than that.
Tory MPs put IDS to the membership with Clarke in 2001 too don't forget, not Portillo
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You move in your own narrow circles and unfortunately for you live in a fantasy world
You are morphing into a dinosaur and we know what happened to them
They're doing very well, especially when Mrs C keeps the birdseed feeder filled up. As I know only too well when I went out to the bin in my socks yesterday and stepped in some dinosaur shite.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
As well as the fact that Ed Miliband had been a Cabinet minister throughout Brown's Premiership and, although he ran a little to the left of his brother, wasn't really an "ideological purity" choice, he also didn't win amongst Labour members.
Corbyn however certainly did win the Labour membership vote, twice
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
The Universe is teeming with life, if this is shown to be correct.
Phew - the idea that we were it would be one hell of a waste of that Universe!
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
As well as the fact that Ed Miliband had been a Cabinet minister throughout Brown's Premiership and, although he ran a little to the left of his brother, wasn't really an "ideological purity" choice, he also didn't win amongst Labour members.
Corbyn however certainly did win the Labour membership vote, twice
And once again, you defend your post on the basis that PART of it was true, ignoring the bit that wasn't.
No Stodge Saturday Patent today - keeping what embers I have alive for Royal Ascot starting on Tuesday. I was told by a friend to "bet the house on BAAEED" - I'd better not, Mrs Stodge might be upset if I have to tell her we'll be leaving in the car for a few days...
Catching up on the morning debate about the role of Monarchy in the political arena - we've had 70 years of public non-involvement from the Monarch and have come to perhaps assume this should be the natural order of things. I suspect had Edward VIII remained on the throne, it might have been very different.
The current line works as does so much else about the Monarchy but to nuance it slightly while the Monarch should be apolitical, should that extend to those in immediate line of succession? I've no problem with Prince Charles expressing his opinions (though it's quite clear a number don't like anything he says) - ditto Prince William (one presumes he's allowed to get away with it because he has a pretty wife and three children) and indeed one day Prince George etc but once they become Monarch the wall has to come up and any public opinions expressed have to be politically neutral and by definition fairly anodyne.
As to whether Charles will adhere to the current convention once he becomes King, once can but hope he has counselled wisely. Having a political opinion, by the way, is not the same as expressing concern in general terms about the environment, wildlife conservation etc.
Flat racing isn’t my thing. I haven’t horse bet since I went to York and only got one winner and lost about a third of my treasure I won in the winter (I 3as over excited and drunk). Is Ascot going to be worth getting involved in do you think Stodge, as PB should we do a daily PB morning line on this one?
As for Charles, let’s be honest, the things he acts as pressure group on are the right things - environment, architecture, new homes and living spaces, meadows, Rwanda is a piece of Boris government junk that can drag down our reputation and share price abroad so he rightly should speak out - who was it on PB yesterday saying Rwanda is a proper policy not a slight and hand and will actually work 😂
(I'm sorry that I haven't followed the campaign closely enough to give any betting advice but, if others don't, I'll try to provide some coverage for you, in the next day or two.)
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Ideally, she would try being to be polite about residents anywhere in the UK, whether they have a Tory MP or not.
Ideally but she could be as rude as she liked about Islington or Bristol or Manchester or Glasgow and it wouldn't matter to the Tories as they have zero MPs there and zero chance of winning any.
Boris however needs to hold the Tory seats in Birmingham and Blackpool to keep his majority
Firstly, you do know people from Bristol, Manchester, and Glasgow sometimes move, don't you? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of proud Bristolians, Mancunians, and Glaswegians in Tory seats.
You're also not really right about Tory prospects in these areas. Bristol NW was Tory until 2017 for instance - it's clearly not a "must win" as they won in 2019 without it. But it's an area where they are reasonably competitive. There are also areas like Filton & Bradley Stoke, and Kingswood, which aren't within Bristol City Council but clearly include substantial suburbs contiguous with Bristol - it's their city too.
Post Brexit Bristol NW is not really competitive for the Tories, they got just 38% there in 2019, 5% worse than nationally when they won a landslide.
Bristol voted 61% Remain while Blackpool voted 67% Leave
Brexit is done we have moved on.
It isn't, on the latest Yougov 56% of Leave voters are still voting Conservative but only 16% of Remain voters are voting Conservative
And Bingo you immediately prove my point by not getting irony.
We should run a sweepstake on when you will ever understand a post by someone else.
Perhaps even you will understand that when the latest Yougov has 56% of Leave voters voting Conservative but only 52% of over 65s and 32% of ABC1s voting Conservative that a voter's Brexit vote is now the key factor determining whether they are still voting Tory or not. Not their class and not even their age
Oh for goodness sake you didn't even understand that post either.
This is mind boggling.
I was trying to explain to you that you responded to a post by @Mexicanpete as if he was being serious when he was actually making a joke at your expense.
And all I was doing was pointing out you have proved my point of again failing to completely understand a post particularly when someone is using irony to take the piss out of you.
Your lack of comprehension is off the scale. Is English your first language? Have you had a humour bypass?
And yet again Kjh posts another pompous rude post attacking me without discussing the topic at all.
Says everything you need to know about him!
Why do you accuse everyone who criticises you of being pompous?
I don't see kjh's post is pompous. Acerbic, yes, but that's different.
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
The Universe is teeming with life, if this is shown to be correct.
Phew - the idea that we were it would be one hell of a waste of that Universe!
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
You seem to have forgotten:
1. electing IDS was a nuclear option to stop uber-Europhile Ken Clarke getting the top job; 2. IDS was never allowed to represent the Party at a general election; 3. in the 21 years since his election, we have had Brexit and 4. many of those who voted then have since died.
IDS would never get to the membership. Tory MPs really are much smarter than that.
I hate to disagree with you, but he *did* get to the membership. If MPs had had the sense to give the second slot to Portillo, things would have been rather different.
Portillo was thought more of a wrong 'un than IDS.
IDs could be - and was - jettisoned once he had done the job of seeing off Clarke. Portillo would have been a more difficult limpet to remove. Was the assessment.
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
The Universe is teeming with life, if this is shown to be correct.
Phew - the idea that we were it would be one hell of a waste of that Universe!
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
The Universe is teeming with life, if this is shown to be correct.
Phew - the idea that we were it would be one hell of a waste of that Universe!
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
The Universe is teeming with life, if this is shown to be correct.
Phew - the idea that we were it would be one hell of a waste of that Universe!
It’s a race against time, to discover intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, before someone discovers intelligent life in Epping….?
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
As well as the fact that Ed Miliband had been a Cabinet minister throughout Brown's Premiership and, although he ran a little to the left of his brother, wasn't really an "ideological purity" choice, he also didn't win amongst Labour members.
Corbyn however certainly did win the Labour membership vote, twice
And once again, you defend your post on the basis that PART of it was true, ignoring the bit that wasn't.
You're learning from your hero, the PM.
As has been demonstrated several times today I suspect he genuinely doesn't understand what you have just said.
Government minister Heather Wheeler has apologised after describing Birmingham and Blackpool as "godawful" places.
The Conservative MP for South Derbyshire made the remark at a conference in London as she launched the government's new digital strategy.
Mrs Wheeler, a parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office, said she made an "inappropriate remark that does not reflect my actual view".
Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner accused her of "utter contempt".
Mrs Wheeler, also an assistant government whip, is reported to have said: "I was just at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful."
I hope she realised Blackpool and Birmingham now both each have 1 Tory MP? They may not be the wealthiest or most educated places (apart from Edgbaston in Birmingham) but they have seats we need to hold
Edgbaston isn't like it was back in Jill Knight's day.
Heather Wheeler strikes me as an obnoxious snob. It doesn't mean she isn't right though.
Birmingham: what the Luftwaffe missed, the town planners hit.
Blackpool: Where were the Luftwaffe?
Edgbaston used to be the only reasonably safe Tory seat in Birmingham. It is the wealthiest and most middle class part of the city.
However since it went Labour in 1997 it has stayed Labour and it was more working class Birmingham Northfield which the Tories gained in 2019, not Edgbaston reflecting the more working class voter coalition Boris built.
That also explains why working class Blackpool has a Tory MP and very middle class Richmond Park, Chesham and Amersham and St Albans now don't
I know Richmond Park very well and I would say it's more upper class than middle. If you can stretch the definition of middle class to include RP, it's definitely right at the top end of it.
But then everybody has their own definition of class.
Richmond Park is comfortably in the top 10% seats for least deprived, but is not at the very top. The top three are:
(3) Chesham and Amersham (2) North East Hampshire (1) Wokingham
Interestingly, Richmond Park is therefore only third on the list of least deprived LD seats.
Would anyone like to guess which seat is second?
A strategic blind alley the LDs have got themselves into is that they now represent a sprinkling of the most educated and affluent seats - in contrast to the old days when they had the Celtic fringe and SW radicalism plus a handful of relatively deprived urban seats - to fall back on. This makes it more difficult for them to pitch the sort of radical, redistributionist agenda (remember they were the first party to float high value property taxation) that arguable the country needs.
Is it a "strategic blind alley" or is it more that the "educated and affluent" market has been abandoned by the Conservatives, and it would be bonkers NOT to make a bid for it?
It's true that the Lib Dems took an absolute hammering in SW in 2015 and have struggled to get back in the game as their Brexit position went down very badly overall in such areas (although there are some marginals and a pending by-election).
I am not entirely sure that the very educated and affluent seats actually impede a fairly radical agenda, though. Such seats aren't actually particularly right wing or small-c conservative. There is a level of comfort there that means people are somewhat more willing to vote against their own financial interests. Put it this way, I'd probably feel more comfortable arguing for a wealth tax in SW London or St Albans than in West Devon.
Do the Tories have anything to offer the electorate now other than fear?
Yes. But I'm not sure Boris does.
No, I have been unable to find any positive message in the campaign materials that were delivered for the local elections last month. All fear of Khan, fear of Labour, fear of foreigners.
The latest from Alastair Meeks, who IIRC left the site partly because he was assailed for being too zealously anti-Brexit. He still is, but critical of the EU too. As always, a smooth read.
Yes, excellent as always from Mr Meeks. And it is absolutely easy to draw from it both his general case that of course we should be in the EU, and also the other case that, obviously, we were right to leave.
Though of course no-one thinks we should have left in the way we did.
I don't think we should have had the 2 wasted years of the Remain Parliament messing around, 2017-2019 but other than the stereotypical "I wouldn't start from here" I do think the way we left was absolutely the correct thing to do.
Fixing the NI Protocol now that we're out and it can't be held over our heads to blackmail us before we leave anymore is all that really needs polishing off now in my view.
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
As well as the fact that Ed Miliband had been a Cabinet minister throughout Brown's Premiership and, although he ran a little to the left of his brother, wasn't really an "ideological purity" choice, he also didn't win amongst Labour members.
Corbyn however certainly did win the Labour membership vote, twice
And once again, you defend your post on the basis that PART of it was true, ignoring the bit that wasn't.
You're learning from your hero, the PM.
As has been demonstrated several times today I suspect he genuinely doesn't understand what you have just said.
Have you posted anything on here today other than attacking me? I am beginning to think you are becoming obsessed with me!
Across the rich world rural areas are kept going by massive subsidies for agriculture and medical care for the aged, and to a diminishing extent for motoring. In addition people sort into rural areas based on age to a growing extent, including in some places white flight. For these reasons there are vanishingly few liberal parties with a rural base, and the choice has largely been to drop the rural focus (e.g. the Swedish Centre party) or the whole liberalism thing (e.g. the Norwegian Centre party).
Why did Stokes put NZ into bat again ? Oh well he should at least now have learnt the lesson that you bat if it's a close decision
The golden rule in cricket is that, if you win the toss, you should check the weather forecast carefully, assess the current state of the pitch in great detail, think about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, consult the historical records...
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
You seem to think you have an insight into the membership which mirrors your own right wing views, but they will not commit electoral suicide with Patel or the idiotic JRM
They voted for IDS over the more electable Ken Clarke even if they voted for Cameron over Davis and Johnson over Hunt. It depends what mood they are in
Exactly, if one of the hard core Brexiteers gets through to the members then they will win I suspect.
Even IDS is a name being banded about apparently as an option to make sure a pure brexiteer gets through to membership.
It'll be Penny, she'll win, and she'll be the best PM since Thatch. I have spoken.
A recurrent wet dream of Tories is to find a new Maggie. They thought they had with May, and now their fantasies have moved on to Mordaunt. It is an unfair load to put on any candidate, but every female candidate gets landed with it.
Labour would discover Mordaunt is every bit as politically potent as Maggie.....
Mark what is your view on T&H now? If you feel it imprudent to say I get it. Have you been much recently?
I think it might have been leaning Tory when Mark came back from there, but likely the other way now 200 MPs endorsed Boris.
But now the vonc boil has been lanced any pressure from both losses same day just goes down the nearest drain 😕
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
As well as the fact that Ed Miliband had been a Cabinet minister throughout Brown's Premiership and, although he ran a little to the left of his brother, wasn't really an "ideological purity" choice, he also didn't win amongst Labour members.
Corbyn however certainly did win the Labour membership vote, twice
And once again, you defend your post on the basis that PART of it was true, ignoring the bit that wasn't.
You're learning from your hero, the PM.
Yes but the fact Labour members, twice, voted for Corbyn and Tory members voted for IDS suggests that if the party membership is in an ideological purity not winning power mood they will elect their leader accordingly.
It should also be pointed out that when you combined affiliated Labour members in 2010 to ordinary Labour party members then Ed Miliband did win the membership vote on that definition
Why did Stokes put NZ into bat again ? Oh well he should at least now have learnt the lesson that you bat if it's a close decision
The golden rule in cricket is that, if you win the toss, you should check the weather forecast carefully, assess the current state of the pitch in great detail, think about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, consult the historical records...
And then bat.
Although NZ have confessed they'd have bowled too.
Speaking of odds, I think there is a 90 percent chance of bacterial life, on Mars -- and less than a 5 percent chance of anything higher.
(And for some of the outer solar system moons with water? I don't know enough to have an opinion, other than, it's possible.)
When it comes to 'bacterial' life on Mars, we just don't have enough information to ascribe any percentages. There almost certainly is none on the surface, but we know there's tonnes (literally) of microbial life in the depths of the Earth, most of which has only been found in the last few decades.
I'm of the view that exceptionalism is generally wrong. When I first started looking at this stuff in the early 1990s, we had no proof there were any exoplanets (planets outside our solar system). Credible scientists were saying that our solar system might be the only one with planets. We were the exception. Within a few years we discovered the first exoplanets.
When it comes to life, I find it impossible that we are the exception; that simple life developed on Earth but nowhere else in the universe.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
Why did Stokes put NZ into bat again ? Oh well he should at least now have learnt the lesson that you bat if it's a close decision
The golden rule in cricket is that, if you win the toss, you should check the weather forecast carefully, assess the current state of the pitch in great detail, think about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, consult the historical records...
And then bat.
Only in Test Cricket.
In limited over cricket doesn't the chasing team have the advantage that they know and can plan the pace they need to beat the target? Especially T20/Hundred.
Why did Stokes put NZ into bat again ? Oh well he should at least now have learnt the lesson that you bat if it's a close decision
The golden rule in cricket is that, if you win the toss, you should check the weather forecast carefully, assess the current state of the pitch in great detail, think about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, consult the historical records...
And then bat.
Although NZ have confessed they'd have bowled too.
Merely confirming that all captains should remember W G Grace was right, as he was about any cricketing matter that didn't involve him losing his wicket:
'When you win the toss, nine times out of ten you bat. The tenth time you think about it, and then bat.'
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
As well as the fact that Ed Miliband had been a Cabinet minister throughout Brown's Premiership and, although he ran a little to the left of his brother, wasn't really an "ideological purity" choice, he also didn't win amongst Labour members.
Corbyn however certainly did win the Labour membership vote, twice
And once again, you defend your post on the basis that PART of it was true, ignoring the bit that wasn't.
You're learning from your hero, the PM.
As has been demonstrated several times today I suspect he genuinely doesn't understand what you have just said.
Have you posted anything on here today other than attacking me? I am beginning to think you are becoming obsessed with me!
There's no point in engaging with you in any way other than attacking you. You misuse stats, you misunderstand other people's points, you swear blind that black is white.
I'm coming to the conclusion that you are either a troll or you have brain damage. And I'm not trying to be cute here. I'm certain that at least one of those is true.
Why did Stokes put NZ into bat again ? Oh well he should at least now have learnt the lesson that you bat if it's a close decision
The golden rule in cricket is that, if you win the toss, you should check the weather forecast carefully, assess the current state of the pitch in great detail, think about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, consult the historical records...
And then bat.
Only in Test Cricket.
In limited over cricket doesn't the chasing team have the advantage that they know and can plan the pace they need to beat the target? Especially T20/Hundred.
True.
I also don't actually think the stats back up my assertion. It's actually fairly even over time whether the team batting first in a Test match wins or loses.
Probably the best reason to bat first is you're less exposed. In general, because the myth is so widespread that batting first is an advantage, you can't really be criticised for doing it (if you lose, people don't blame you making the normal call) whereas if you win the toss, bowl, and lose you get hammered by the fans and pundits.
Why did Stokes put NZ into bat again ? Oh well he should at least now have learnt the lesson that you bat if it's a close decision
The golden rule in cricket is that, if you win the toss, you should check the weather forecast carefully, assess the current state of the pitch in great detail, think about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, consult the historical records...
And then bat.
Although NZ have confessed they'd have bowled too.
Merely confirming that all captains should remember W G Grace was right, as he was about any cricketing matter that didn't involve him losing his wicket:
'When you win the toss, nine times out of ten you bat. The tenth time you think about it, and then bat.'
I think in W G Grace's era, it was probably more true. I've not looked up the stats, but suspect that preparation of wickets has tended to improve with technology, so at that time the wicket was far more likely to deteriorate significantly over the course of several days. So my guess would be it provided a fairly big advantage in the early days of cricket, but that it flattened out (but the myth remained).
The Welsh Tory bid for independence has nothing to do with Welsh separatism, and everything to do with needing to demonstrate independence from Boris to the electorate in 2024.
It’s another sign that Boris is uniquely toxic to voters.
True and what angers me is both our local mps supported Boris despite the evidence he is toxic to them
I have made my views clear that they will lose their seats unless they join the 148
When are the 210 (the other is Boris) wake up and see that across large parts of this country and not least Scotland and Wales he is taking them to a devastating loss
Delighted that my MP Andrew Bowie is already one of the 148, but what we need now is some movement from those within Government.
A cabinet resignation or two or three would be excellent
It would, but it doesn't seem to be happening. For whatever reason, good or ill, it's Boris's party now.
In the case of people like Dorries and JRM, it's obvious that they know that they have zero future beyond a Johnson premiership. Maybe that extends to Patel and some others. But one of the saddest features of Conservative politics since 2016ish has been watching otherwise perfectly capable people abase themselves in the service of someone who regards others as utterly disposable.
What's that line sometimes attributed to BoJo about getting frumpier students from women's colleges to back him with no intention of giving anything in return?
I would not be so sure, I could certainly see Tory members voting for Patel or even Rees Mogg as leader over say Hunt or Sunak
If you're serious, then that's genuinely alarming. Surely there can't be enough lunatics in the world to think Rees-Mogg is fit to be anything other than Silly Twit of the Year?
I could certainly see Rees Mogg as a future Tory Leader of the Opposition.
Tory members love the Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn!
For the love of God, shut the fuck up.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
I am sorry but it is true. I go to Tory membership events as much as you and most of them are big fans of Rees Mogg. All dinners and speaking events he does in Tory Associations are always sold out
You seem to have no concept of the difference between a person being an amiable after dinner speaker - and winning the keys to 10 Downing Street. Rees-Mogg is utterly toxic with the public - and activists are smart enough to when they would be committing political seppuku.....
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
You seem to have forgotten those very same activists elected IDS as their leader in 2001.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
As well as the fact that Ed Miliband had been a Cabinet minister throughout Brown's Premiership and, although he ran a little to the left of his brother, wasn't really an "ideological purity" choice, he also didn't win amongst Labour members.
Corbyn however certainly did win the Labour membership vote, twice
And once again, you defend your post on the basis that PART of it was true, ignoring the bit that wasn't.
You're learning from your hero, the PM.
As has been demonstrated several times today I suspect he genuinely doesn't understand what you have just said.
Have you posted anything on here today other than attacking me? I am beginning to think you are becoming obsessed with me!
Yep lots. Stuff on Elderflower wine, cars, student loans, etc.
Maybe you should reflect on why. I don't attack others of different political views so it isn't politics is it?
And it is not just me is it? And it is many who vote conservative as well isn't it?
Maybe you should sit back and think why?
Your lack of apparent comprehension of posts is difficult to believe. Your failure to admit you are ever wrong is mind boggling (note I apologised to someone today for a badly worded post). You fail to understand that many of your posts are statistically or logically illiterate.
@Farooq made mincemeat of you today pulling your post apart for logical and comprehension failures and you clearly didn't understand what was going on. You failed to get @Mexicanpete's joke. You regularly completely misunderstand my posts.
You have no idea this is happening.
I'm sorry if this sounds cruel but it is true. Maybe someone should have posted what @MarqueeMark posted earlier, but I think it needed someone from your own political side to do so.
Comments
As I patiently explained to you as one of PB's hard of humour contributors, Mexican Pete was making a little joke.
The point is that it is significantly less important than in 2019. That's demonstrated by the polls and by real votes - e.g. the swing in North Shropshire being larger than in Chesham & Amersham (noting I called out your lie about that matter).
The recent Federal election in Australia emphasised the cultural, economic and educational shift in voting patterns - the Coalition did better than the national trend in seats of less well educated and poorer people while Labor did disproportionately better in the seats of wealthier better educated people (though not as well as the Greens and some of the Teals).
I'd argue the EU Referendum illuminated what had been apparent for some time before and the 2019 GE emphasised it further - the core of the centre-right vote has moved from the traditional heartland of the wealthy and well-educated to the "white working class" while wealthier and better educated people are tending away from the Conservatives but not always to Labour (note the Greens and the LDs).
Given some power people realised he's actually a nasty, duplicitous, lazy, rude, arrogant and not very intelligent snob.
Bit like Johnson himself...
This is mind boggling.
I was trying to explain to you that you responded to a post by @Mexicanpete as if he was being serious when he was actually making a joke at your expense.
And all I was doing was pointing out you have proved my point of again failing to completely understand a post particularly when someone is using irony to take the piss out of you.
Your lack of comprehension is off the scale. Is English your first language? Have you had a humour bypass?
No Stodge Saturday Patent today - keeping what embers I have alive for Royal Ascot starting on Tuesday. I was told by a friend to "bet the house on BAAEED" - I'd better not, Mrs Stodge might be upset if I have to tell her we'll be leaving in the car for a few days...
Catching up on the morning debate about the role of Monarchy in the political arena - we've had 70 years of public non-involvement from the Monarch and have come to perhaps assume this should be the natural order of things. I suspect had Edward VIII remained on the throne, it might have been very different.
The current line works as does so much else about the Monarchy but to nuance it slightly while the Monarch should be apolitical, should that extend to those in immediate line of succession? I've no problem with Prince Charles expressing his opinions (though it's quite clear a number don't like anything he says) - ditto Prince William (one presumes he's allowed to get away with it because he has a pretty wife and three children) and indeed one day Prince George etc but once they become Monarch the wall has to come up and any public opinions expressed have to be politically neutral and by definition fairly anodyne.
As to whether Charles will adhere to the current convention once he becomes King, once can but hope he has counselled wisely. Having a political opinion, by the way, is not the same as expressing concern in general terms about the environment, wildlife conservation etc.
You have absolutely no understanding of the current Conservative Party. Yes, you are an official in your local Party. I understand that.
So am I. I would rather people listened to me to get an understanding of what the Party represents. You destroy your own credibility whilst giving ammunition to our opponents.
For the record, Rees-Mogg becomes leader only when membership sinks below a thousand. And even then, not if I were one of those thousand.
Again, just STFU.
Richmond Park is comfortably in the top 10% seats for least deprived, but is not at the very top. The top three are:
(3) Chesham and Amersham
(2) North East Hampshire
(1) Wokingham
Interestingly, Richmond Park is therefore only third on the list of least deprived LD seats.
Would anyone like to guess which seat is second?
You are in for a big shock
Says everything you need to know about him!
I hope our candidate wins. She seems a decent candidate, certainly more so than the LibDem bloke. I would work to get her elected in a General Election. But it will not be on the back of my efforts this time.
I think it will need to be a voter strike to remove Boris as there was one which removed May. This time I suspect it will not be Farage but the Can't be Arsed party that will do for a Conservative PM.
https://phys.org/news/2022-06-scientists-breakthrough-life-earthand-mars.html
For a long time, loonies have said that DNA is so exceptionally complex that the chances of it forming naturally are so remote as to essentially require that it was intelligently designed.
But scientists have now managed to spontaneously create RNA (a likely precursor of DNA) on basalt lava glass.
This also means that the chance of some form of self-replicating molecule that is the formation for organic life appearing elsewhere in the Universe is extremely high. In other words, aliens are almost certainly out there.
You do more harm to the Conservatives that I could ever do as a LD.
EDIT: I stand corrected. I'm a little surprised it's OxWaB, which is obviously very nice but Abingdon isn't uniformally posh - although I suppose nowhere is.
Ditto IDS - who wouldn't even hold his seat.
There are some able people in the newer intakes of the party and trotting out tired has-beens as "future leaders" just deprives them of an opportunity to have the public get to know them.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/11/us/politics/biden-2024-election-democrats.html
Judging by some comments on this thread, they're in here.
In my opinion, you’d have to be slightly mad or extremely inert to “survive” the last several years in the party.
Having said that, 20% of @HYUFD’s posting is pretty obvious trolling and his suggestions of a Rees-Mogg or IDS leadership surely fall into that category.
But I know you are brighter than that, so you are playing games. Like distracting HY whilst accomplice picks his pocket.
Naughtiness.
It’s amazing how a few gins soothe a hangover.
After a long period in government parties often prefer ideological purity to power, see also Labour who elected Ed Miliband over David Miliband and then Corbyn over Burnham and Cooper and when the Tories lose power and head for opposition they may not be any different
|
|
|
I would take @MarqueeMark word 100% over yours
You are morphing into a dinosaur and we know what happened to them
I don't see kjh's post is pompous. Acerbic, yes, but that's different.
1. electing IDS was a nuclear option to stop uber-Europhile Ken Clarke getting the top job;
2. IDS was never allowed to represent the Party at a general election;
3. in the 21 years since his election, we have had Brexit and
4. many of those who voted then have since died.
IDS would never get to the membership. Tory MPs really are much smarter than that.
@Steven_Swinford
· 6h
Sajid Javid says that Britain is now ‘properly post pandemic’
===
This could come back to haunt him.
But now New Zealand have enough to bat only once if they wish and I think they have declared.
Edit - no, bowled out!
Phew - the idea that we were it would be one hell of a waste of that Universe!
You're learning from your hero, the PM.
As for Charles, let’s be honest, the things he acts as pressure group on are the right things - environment, architecture, new homes and living spaces, meadows, Rwanda is a piece of Boris government junk that can drag down our reputation and share price abroad so he rightly should speak out - who was it on PB yesterday saying Rwanda is a proper policy not a slight and hand and will actually work 😂
(I'm sorry that I haven't followed the campaign closely enough to give any betting advice but, if others don't, I'll try to provide some coverage for you, in the next day or two.)
IDs could be - and was - jettisoned once he had done the job of seeing off Clarke. Portillo would have been a more difficult limpet to remove. Was the assessment.
Oh well he should at least now have learnt the lesson that you bat if it's a close decision
(And for some of the outer solar system moons with water? I don't know enough to have an opinion, other than, it's possible.)
It's true that the Lib Dems took an absolute hammering in SW in 2015 and have struggled to get back in the game as their Brexit position went down very badly overall in such areas (although there are some marginals and a pending by-election).
I am not entirely sure that the very educated and affluent seats actually impede a fairly radical agenda, though. Such seats aren't actually particularly right wing or small-c conservative. There is a level of comfort there that means people are somewhat more willing to vote against their own financial interests. Put it this way, I'd probably feel more comfortable arguing for a wealth tax in SW London or St Albans than in West Devon.
Fixing the NI Protocol now that we're out and it can't be held over our heads to blackmail us before we leave anymore is all that really needs polishing off now in my view.
And then bat.
6-1.
But now the vonc boil has been lanced any pressure from both losses same day just goes down the nearest drain 😕
It should also be pointed out that when you combined affiliated Labour members in 2010 to ordinary Labour party members then Ed Miliband did win the membership vote on that definition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_biosphere
Higher forms of life are probably very unlikely.
I'm of the view that exceptionalism is generally wrong. When I first started looking at this stuff in the early 1990s, we had no proof there were any exoplanets (planets outside our solar system). Credible scientists were saying that our solar system might be the only one with planets. We were the exception. Within a few years we discovered the first exoplanets.
When it comes to life, I find it impossible that we are the exception; that simple life developed on Earth but nowhere else in the universe.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
In limited over cricket doesn't the chasing team have the advantage that they know and can plan the pace they need to beat the target? Especially T20/Hundred.
'When you win the toss, nine times out of ten you bat. The tenth time you think about it, and then bat.'
I'm coming to the conclusion that you are either a troll or you have brain damage. And I'm not trying to be cute here. I'm certain that at least one of those is true.
I also don't actually think the stats back up my assertion. It's actually fairly even over time whether the team batting first in a Test match wins or loses.
Probably the best reason to bat first is you're less exposed. In general, because the myth is so widespread that batting first is an advantage, you can't really be criticised for doing it (if you lose, people don't blame you making the normal call) whereas if you win the toss, bowl, and lose you get hammered by the fans and pundits.
Maybe you should reflect on why. I don't attack others of different political views so it isn't politics is it?
And it is not just me is it? And it is many who vote conservative as well isn't it?
Maybe you should sit back and think why?
Your lack of apparent comprehension of posts is difficult to believe. Your failure to admit you are ever wrong is mind boggling (note I apologised to someone today for a badly worded post). You fail to understand that many of your posts are statistically or logically illiterate.
@Farooq made mincemeat of you today pulling your post apart for logical and comprehension failures and you clearly didn't understand what was going on. You failed to get @Mexicanpete's joke. You regularly completely misunderstand my posts.
You have no idea this is happening.
I'm sorry if this sounds cruel but it is true. Maybe someone should have posted what @MarqueeMark posted earlier, but I think it needed someone from your own political side to do so.
Sorry.