Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
You call yourself a 'social liberal' but you voted for the Brexit Party in 2019 and support sending people to Rwanda. You are an extreme reactionary who makes HYUFD look very moderate.
I cast a protest vote in 2019 in part to get rid of an authoritarian anti-immigration PM that I despised. The Brexit Party were no more than a tool for that as far as I was concerned, it also ousted Nigel Farage from the European Parliament so another win there.
I am not a reactionary, I am very pro-immigration and am happy to have a liberalised immigration system that is fair to all regardless of where in the planet they were born, or what the colour of their skin is, rather than prioritising primarily white Europeans over the rest of the planet.
I hate that there is no better solution than the Rwanda one, but the Channel is not safe to cross via people smugglers and it causes misery and drownings and every other policy has failed to fix that, offshore relocation works. It halted such movements with Australia, which has more people proportionately immigrating than the UK does.
I'd be quite happy to have an Australian-style system where that means twice as many people arrive proportionately as do now, but those people are fairly able to get visas from around the world, and people don't drown in the English Channel getting here.
That's not what the reactionaries want, or what they mean by Australian-style.
You doth protest too much. You are the most reactionary poster on this site. You make Colonel Blimp look like a moderate progressive.
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
I'm not going to convince you, but. There are only 2 possible governments. If you're going to get Labour economic policies from both you may as well choose the social liberal one.
And which one is that? You're not suggesting the party that wanted to introduce ID cards and detention without trial are you?
You'd make an excellent point if the Labour party are socially liberal then I might just hold my nose about their economics, but I see no evidence that they actually are.
Well there you go. The government who wants to send folk to Rwanda or the one which doesn't? The one which wants to ban noisy protest or not?
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
I broadly agree with you, but...
I went from "always voting Tory" to "spoiling my ballot paper with a complaint about the Tories" for a long while. Then I started to look at individual local councillors and their policies and behaviours, and started to vote locally for effective people with a good cross-party reputation. Then I started engaging with my (Labour) MP more, and have been generally impressed with his parliamentary interventions, so I voted for him in the last GE.
I now think the parties are busted flushes, and I'm as likely to get a terrible government voting Blue or Red or anything in between. So I'm doing my best to put people into office who are not total idiots, as individuals.
The main problem at national level though, attractive as the concept is, is that almost all MPs are spineless sheep who follow whatever nonsense they are whipped to follow. If you have one with a spine, its the exception not the rule.
Yes, precisely. But natural selection is the only way to fix that. Stop voting the Party, start voting for people who behave how you'd want them to. Boot out the spineless sheep.
And yes, you might, as an individual, be micturating into the oncoming storm, but you only have one vote, and the ability to encourage others to do likewise.
We have to prepare for a moment, soon, when Putin has taken the eastern provinces and he has his land corridor to Crimea and he declares “victory”.
He will then hope that the West slowly fragments, sanctions are dropped in one country after another, and we adjust to the bitter but tolerable new reality - tolerable for all but the poor Ukrainians, of course - especially those who, at this point, find themselves inside Putin’s Empire of Rape, Kidnap and Torture
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
You call yourself a 'social liberal' but you voted for the Brexit Party in 2019 and support sending people to Rwanda. You are an extreme reactionary who makes HYUFD look very moderate.
I cast a protest vote in 2019 in part to get rid of an authoritarian anti-immigration PM that I despised. The Brexit Party were no more than a tool for that as far as I was concerned, it also ousted Nigel Farage from the European Parliament so another win there.
I am not a reactionary, I am very pro-immigration and am happy to have a liberalised immigration system that is fair to all regardless of where in the planet they were born, or what the colour of their skin is, rather than prioritising primarily white Europeans over the rest of the planet.
I hate that there is no better solution than the Rwanda one, but the Channel is not safe to cross via people smugglers and it causes misery and drownings and every other policy has failed to fix that, offshore relocation works. It halted such movements with Australia, which has more people proportionately immigrating than the UK does.
I'd be quite happy to have an Australian-style system where that means twice as many people arrive proportionately as do now, but those people are fairly able to get visas from around the world, and people don't drown in the English Channel getting here.
That's not what the reactionaries want, or what they mean by Australian-style.
Still. You're prepared to vote for the Brexit Party as a protest vote, but Labour, Lib Dems and the Greens are beyond the pale.
That does place you a considerable distance to the right of the centre of political gravity in Britain.
We have to prepare for a moment, soon, when Putin has taken the eastern provinces and he has his land corridor to Crimea and he declares “victory”.
He will then hope that the West slowly fragments, sanctions are dropped in one country after another, and we adjust to the bitter but tolerable new reality - tolerable for all but the poor Ukrainians, of course - especially those who, at this point, find themselves inside Putin’s Empire of Rape, Kidnap and Torture
There were defeatists who believed that there would be a moment when Hitler would take all of Europe and Britain would have to accept his victory and sue for peace. Thankfully that did not happen.
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
You call yourself a 'social liberal' but you voted for the Brexit Party in 2019 and support sending people to Rwanda. You are an extreme reactionary who makes HYUFD look very moderate.
BR is certainly a social liberal, that is without doubt. On the black lives matter pb debates, he put up the best defence of the liberal side.
Just on anything to do with economics or Brexit, and sometimes party politics, he is way, way too dogmatic and obsessed with winning arguments.
Doesn't the whole process take a bit longer than a month ?
With a new leader (Which looks unlikely to me) perhaps, but can't see the Tories picking up many votes in the middle of a leadership campaign with marches for Leadsom Liz Truss going on in and around parliament.
FPT - Sunak shortening (arf). I backed him at 16.0 with Betfair, he's currently 14/15.5 so not much doing other than a smidgen there.
David Cameron announced his retirement on June 24th and Theresa May became Tory leader on the 11th of July, and Prime Minister on the 13th of July.
Can take fewer than three weeks in the right circumstances.
And what a fecking disaster that was
But they were building giant effigies of her on the Cliffs of Dover in a Union Jack dress giving the V-sign to the continentals. How reality and expectation can diverge!
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
I'm not going to convince you, but. There are only 2 possible governments. If you're going to get Labour economic policies from both you may as well choose the social liberal one.
And which one is that? You're not suggesting the party that wanted to introduce ID cards and detention without trial are you?
You'd make an excellent point if the Labour party are socially liberal then I might just hold my nose about their economics, but I see no evidence that they actually are.
Well there you go. The government who wants to send folk to Rwanda or the one which doesn't? The one which wants to ban noisy protest or not?
Sadly when it comes to civil liberties both are as bad as each other. (Recent) Historically at least. If Starmer were to reject Labour statist policies of the past he would remove one of the few barriers left to me voting for him. If he does not then I persist with a policy of 'a plague on both their houses'.
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
You call yourself a 'social liberal' but you voted for the Brexit Party in 2019 and support sending people to Rwanda. You are an extreme reactionary who makes HYUFD look very moderate.
I cast a protest vote in 2019 in part to get rid of an authoritarian anti-immigration PM that I despised. The Brexit Party were no more than a tool for that as far as I was concerned, it also ousted Nigel Farage from the European Parliament so another win there.
I am not a reactionary, I am very pro-immigration and am happy to have a liberalised immigration system that is fair to all regardless of where in the planet they were born, or what the colour of their skin is, rather than prioritising primarily white Europeans over the rest of the planet.
I hate that there is no better solution than the Rwanda one, but the Channel is not safe to cross via people smugglers and it causes misery and drownings and every other policy has failed to fix that, offshore relocation works. It halted such movements with Australia, which has more people proportionately immigrating than the UK does.
I'd be quite happy to have an Australian-style system where that means twice as many people arrive proportionately as do now, but those people are fairly able to get visas from around the world, and people don't drown in the English Channel getting here.
That's not what the reactionaries want, or what they mean by Australian-style.
Still. You're prepared to vote for the Brexit Party as a protest vote, but Labour, Lib Dems and the Greens are beyond the pale.
That does place you a considerable distance to the right of the centre of political gravity in Britain.
Oh no I'd happily cast a protest vote for Labour, the Lib Dems or Greens at an election like the European Elections. They were protest elections. I can and have done so at local elections.
A General Election is different though. I wouldn't do so to send someone to Parliament, that's the difference. There was zero risk that whoever you voted for at the EU elections would end up in Parliament.
Another header which looks awfully like a nudge for the Tory MP readership of this blog.
Go on lads, you know you want to
You are so cynical. Next you will be suggesting that Mike has a financial interest in Boris's departure 😲
I don't
We all have a financial interest in Johnson's departure. Investment in sensible infrastructure, long term sustainable growth, rebalancing the economy (even, dare I say it, 'levelling up') are things more likely to happen under A N Other
Not if Boris is replaced by an austerity hawk or ideological nutjob. Always keep tight hold of nurse...
No. Johnson is the pits.
But then we thought that of May. less so of Cameron, until Greensill.
Perhaps tory PMs is the problem.
David Cameron was our worst Prime Minister since Lord North. Boris is sui generis — impossible to rate on any normal dimension. I'm not even sure the man is a liar, even though so much of what he says is false. Boris is our most unsuitable Prime Minister.
I don't agree on Cameron. He arguably bungled one thing that has had huge consequences, but overall he was a decent man trying his best and the country was fairly content.
Another header which looks awfully like a nudge for the Tory MP readership of this blog.
Go on lads, you know you want to
Would Lib Dem pleading for Tory MPs to sack their leader will make Tories more or less likely to do so?
Is there an element of reverse psychology playing out?
I think you might have generously shared your insights with the LibDem leadership in previous incarnations. You were very vocal between 2016 and 2017!
FWIW - I think Johnson would just about hold on at the next election in 2024. None of the potential replacements have any appeal at all outside the activist base. And none have the brio to pull off a move to run against their party's record - or to bring the disgruntled europhiles back into the big tent.
What makes the call so difficult for Tory MPs is that amongst potential Tory leaders, Boris has simultaneously the highest ceiling and the lowest floor at the next election.
That's what makes the calculation so exquisitely cruel.
Putting someone like Hunt, Sunak or anyone sensible in is probably conceding defeat in 2024. Close and dignified, but defeat. Basically, it's 1964 all over again.
Keeping Boris in place probably leads to disaster. He will keep leaving unpleasant messes on the carpet, because he's never been house trained. But you never know... he might just pull it off.
I know which one I would go for, which one makes more rational sense, which one the numbers point to. But I'm not a professional politician, because as a career it doesn't make rational sense. I can see how the 1% gamble might be attractive- making a heap of all your winnings and risking it on one turn and all that.
But my only message to Conservative MPs, activists and Odyessian thinkers is- what did you think was going to happen when you elevated Johnson?
You are missing a factor. Each MP will be asking not only what is best for the chances of another Conservative government but also, what is best for me in my own seat? There will be many for whom a moderate defeat is better than a landslide. And it might even help their chances of promotion.
That makes the calculation even more painful, in a fun way.
The most vulnerable Conservative MPs have better survival odds with Bozza than with AN Other; it might be 1% against 0.1%, but they need the Boz magic (which, even now, is a real thing) to win next time. The next batch, who survive a narrow defeat but not a landslide, are the ones who need a change to be confident about their career plans.
Which group is bigger? More importantly, which group can persuade others that they are more important? I really don't know. Isn't maths fun?
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
We have to prepare for a moment, soon, when Putin has taken the eastern provinces and he has his land corridor to Crimea and he declares “victory”.
He will then hope that the West slowly fragments, sanctions are dropped in one country after another, and we adjust to the bitter but tolerable new reality - tolerable for all but the poor Ukrainians, of course - especially those who, at this point, find themselves inside Putin’s Empire of Rape, Kidnap and Torture
I think VVP will push on to Odessa to deny the Black Sea and make Ukraine even less economically viable. Why else would they be hanging on to Snake Island at vast cost?
Bonus points for destroying Zaporizhzhia and the Ukrainian aero engine industry on the way through.
Another header which looks awfully like a nudge for the Tory MP readership of this blog.
Go on lads, you know you want to
You are so cynical. Next you will be suggesting that Mike has a financial interest in Boris's departure 😲
I don't
We all have a financial interest in Johnson's departure. Investment in sensible infrastructure, long term sustainable growth, rebalancing the economy (even, dare I say it, 'levelling up') are things more likely to happen under A N Other
Not if Boris is replaced by an austerity hawk or ideological nutjob. Always keep tight hold of nurse...
No. Johnson is the pits.
But then we thought that of May. less so of Cameron, until Greensill.
Perhaps tory PMs is the problem.
David Cameron was our worst Prime Minister since Lord North. Boris is sui generis — impossible to rate on any normal dimension. I'm not even sure the man is a liar, even though so much of what he says is false. Boris is our most unsuitable Prime Minister.
I don't agree on Cameron. He arguably bungled one thing that has had huge consequences, but overall he was a decent man trying his best and the country was fairly content.
Greensill passed you right by didn't it? Prince Andrew level selfish entitlement and dishonesty.
the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
I think the greens are also red because they think people will always put themselves before the environment. It's an evolutionary imperative. Therefore we have to take creating a thriving populace seriously, (I'm a green) but I strongly suspect the party would compromise on the amount of red if they got good green.
To a certain extent, it's about developing ways people can live worthwhile lives that don't need more, more, more. Which looks red from the outside, but from within, if it works, who cares what colour it is? It's better than destroying the liveability of the planet.
This has to be the most ludicrous thread header OGH has ever posted.
He is recommending the Conservatives follow the example of Labour in 2007 when they forced out 3 times general election winner Blair in favour of Brown who then lost the 2010 general election having had to abandon his plans for an early 2007 election with Labour then losing all 3 general elections since then too?
The Tories removing 2019 general election winner Johnson in the same way Labour removed 1997, 2001 and 2005 general election winner Blair is not good advice at all I suggest
We have to prepare for a moment, soon, when Putin has taken the eastern provinces and he has his land corridor to Crimea and he declares “victory”.
He will then hope that the West slowly fragments, sanctions are dropped in one country after another, and we adjust to the bitter but tolerable new reality - tolerable for all but the poor Ukrainians, of course - especially those who, at this point, find themselves inside Putin’s Empire of Rape, Kidnap and Torture
There were defeatists who believed that there would be a moment when Hitler would take all of Europe and Britain would have to accept his victory and sue for peace. Thankfully that did not happen.
Hitler came pretty bloody close. And I am not advocating giving up on Ukraine, quite the opposite
But “defeat” is possible for the brave Ukrainians, we have to accept it. And Macron, Scholz, Draghi and Orban will be rushing to make peace in Moscow, and they will push for the easing of sanctions…
Just checking in to say that borrowing £20bn to spunk on energy price subsidies is a stupid idea and that anyone pretending that this will be funded from the windfall tax is a complete numpty. UK profits from companies like BP and Shell are tiny, yes they made £6bn last quarter but maybe just 5-10% of that comes from the UK operations so an additional 25% from them will raise peanuts. On the flip side we've got to spend £15-20bn on these subsidies and the drum beat won't stop there because next year is going to be just as bad. The government made the mistake of saying yes and now all the charities and the rest of them know they are weak so will demand billions for whatever other pet projects they have, all while we're still borrowing £135bn per year and spending in excess of £90bn on debt interest.
This is even before the additional £25bn needed to restore the triple lock and uprating of benefits by CPI inflation.
This Tory government is going to bankrupt the nation and the opposition is simply egging them on and would be worse were they in charge.
Doesn't the whole process take a bit longer than a month ?
With a new leader (Which looks unlikely to me) perhaps, but can't see the Tories picking up many votes in the middle of a leadership campaign with marches for Leadsom Liz Truss going on in and around parliament.
FPT - Sunak shortening (arf). I backed him at 16.0 with Betfair, he's currently 14/15.5 so not much doing other than a smidgen there.
David Cameron announced his retirement on June 24th and Theresa May became Tory leader on the 11th of July, and Prime Minister on the 13th of July.
Can take fewer than three weeks in the right circumstances.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
Possibly or he leads to 1997 style disaster. As Hunt remains committed to a harder Brexit than Starmer and has to be to win the Tory membership vote he still loses Remain seats to Labour and the LDs but as he is more fiscally conservative than Johnson and still an ex Remainer unlike Johnson he also loses more redwall seats than Johnson would to Labour and leaks more votes to RefUK
Another header which looks awfully like a nudge for the Tory MP readership of this blog.
Go on lads, you know you want to
You are so cynical. Next you will be suggesting that Mike has a financial interest in Boris's departure 😲
I don't
We all have a financial interest in Johnson's departure. Investment in sensible infrastructure, long term sustainable growth, rebalancing the economy (even, dare I say it, 'levelling up') are things more likely to happen under A N Other
Not if Boris is replaced by an austerity hawk or ideological nutjob. Always keep tight hold of nurse...
No. Johnson is the pits.
But then we thought that of May. less so of Cameron, until Greensill.
Perhaps tory PMs is the problem.
David Cameron was our worst Prime Minister since Lord North. Boris is sui generis — impossible to rate on any normal dimension. I'm not even sure the man is a liar, even though so much of what he says is false. Boris is our most unsuitable Prime Minister.
I don't agree on Cameron. He arguably bungled one thing that has had huge consequences, but overall he was a decent man trying his best and the country was fairly content.
Yeah, this. People don't get everything right. He got his biggest call wrong and handled it badly, but in a parallel universe Cameron might just be retiring after a successful 12 years as PM. He got most things right and believed in uniting the nation rather than dividing it, which to me is the key difference between his govt and its successors.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
Agree with most of that. Apart from the "without being entirely dull" bit obviously. However. All the positives you quote are the precise reasons the members won't touch him with a shitty stick.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
I went off Hunt when he started doing his EUSSR stuff at the post-Brexit Tory conference. I know he's a politician and some kind of pandering to the zeitgeist is inevitable, but I found it at best undignified and at worst morally nihilistic - if he thought the EU was akin to the Soviet Union why was he recommending we stay in it only a few weeks before?
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
You call yourself a 'social liberal' but you voted for the Brexit Party in 2019 and support sending people to Rwanda. You are an extreme reactionary who makes HYUFD look very moderate.
I cast a protest vote in 2019 in part to get rid of an authoritarian anti-immigration PM that I despised. The Brexit Party were no more than a tool for that as far as I was concerned, it also ousted Nigel Farage from the European Parliament so another win there.
I am not a reactionary, I am very pro-immigration and am happy to have a liberalised immigration system that is fair to all regardless of where in the planet they were born, or what the colour of their skin is, rather than prioritising primarily white Europeans over the rest of the planet.
I hate that there is no better solution than the Rwanda one, but the Channel is not safe to cross via people smugglers and it causes misery and drownings and every other policy has failed to fix that, offshore relocation works. It halted such movements with Australia, which has more people proportionately immigrating than the UK does.
I'd be quite happy to have an Australian-style system where that means twice as many people arrive proportionately as do now, but those people are fairly able to get visas from around the world, and people don't drown in the English Channel getting here.
That's not what the reactionaries want, or what they mean by Australian-style.
Migrant crossings: Afghans are largest national group fleeing to UK
People fleeing Afghanistan were the largest group among migrants crossing the Channel in the early part of 2022.
Afghans made up one in four people making the risky journey, following the Taliban's return to power last summer.
New figures show almost as many Afghans crossed the Channel in the first three months of this year (1,094) as in the whole of 2021 (1,323).
In nine out of ten cases over the last year, people fleeing Afghanistan were granted refugee status.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
Another header which looks awfully like a nudge for the Tory MP readership of this blog.
Go on lads, you know you want to
You are so cynical. Next you will be suggesting that Mike has a financial interest in Boris's departure 😲
I don't
We all have a financial interest in Johnson's departure. Investment in sensible infrastructure, long term sustainable growth, rebalancing the economy (even, dare I say it, 'levelling up') are things more likely to happen under A N Other
Not if Boris is replaced by an austerity hawk or ideological nutjob. Always keep tight hold of nurse...
No. Johnson is the pits.
But then we thought that of May. less so of Cameron, until Greensill.
Perhaps tory PMs is the problem.
David Cameron was our worst Prime Minister since Lord North. Boris is sui generis — impossible to rate on any normal dimension. I'm not even sure the man is a liar, even though so much of what he says is false. Boris is our most unsuitable Prime Minister.
I don't agree on Cameron. He arguably bungled one thing that has had huge consequences, but overall he was a decent man trying his best and the country was fairly content.
Yeah, this. People don't get everything right. He got his biggest call wrong and handled it badly, but in a parallel universe Cameron might just be retiring after a successful 12 years as PM. He got most things right and believed in uniting the nation rather than dividing it, which to me is the key difference between his govt and its successors.
And having a stab at corruptly using his 12 years' worth of government contacts to make himself a billionaire. Does that not matter at all to you?
Just checking in to say that borrowing £20bn to spunk on energy price subsidies is a stupid idea and that anyone pretending that this will be funded from the windfall tax is a complete numpty. UK profits from companies like BP and Shell are tiny, yes they made £6bn last quarter but maybe just 5-10% of that comes from the UK operations so an additional 25% from them will raise peanuts. On the flip side we've got to spend £15-20bn on these subsidies and the drum beat won't stop there because next year is going to be just as bad. The government made the mistake of saying yes and now all the charities and the rest of them know they are weak so will demand billions for whatever other pet projects they have, all while we're still borrowing £135bn per year and spending in excess of £90bn on debt interest.
This is even before the additional £25bn needed to restore the triple lock and uprating of benefits by CPI inflation.
This Tory government is going to bankrupt the nation and the opposition is simply egging them on and would be worse were they in charge.
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
You call yourself a 'social liberal' but you voted for the Brexit Party in 2019 and support sending people to Rwanda. You are an extreme reactionary who makes HYUFD look very moderate.
I cast a protest vote in 2019 in part to get rid of an authoritarian anti-immigration PM that I despised. The Brexit Party were no more than a tool for that as far as I was concerned, it also ousted Nigel Farage from the European Parliament so another win there.
I am not a reactionary, I am very pro-immigration and am happy to have a liberalised immigration system that is fair to all regardless of where in the planet they were born, or what the colour of their skin is, rather than prioritising primarily white Europeans over the rest of the planet.
I hate that there is no better solution than the Rwanda one, but the Channel is not safe to cross via people smugglers and it causes misery and drownings and every other policy has failed to fix that, offshore relocation works. It halted such movements with Australia, which has more people proportionately immigrating than the UK does.
I'd be quite happy to have an Australian-style system where that means twice as many people arrive proportionately as do now, but those people are fairly able to get visas from around the world, and people don't drown in the English Channel getting here.
That's not what the reactionaries want, or what they mean by Australian-style.
Migrant crossings: Afghans are largest national group fleeing to UK
People fleeing Afghanistan were the largest group among migrants crossing the Channel in the early part of 2022.
Afghans made up one in four people making the risky journey, following the Taliban's return to power last summer.
New figures show almost as many Afghans crossed the Channel in the first three months of this year (1,094) as in the whole of 2021 (1,323).
In nine out of ten cases over the last year, people fleeing Afghanistan were granted refugee status.
I don't see how Australian style points systems affects this, unless there's a "refugee" box you can tick on the visa application.
Simple, we should be flying in refugees that we take from closer to source. Absolutely take refugees, but fly them safely from migrant camps from neighbouring countries - not from people 'fleeing' Calais.
That may mean those specific refugees don't make it and others do instead, but that's OK. Its safe, and humane and helping genuine refugees.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
Possibly or he leads to 1997 style disaster. As Hunt remains committed to a harder Brexit than Starmer he still loses Remain seats to Labour and the LDs but as he is more fiscally conservative than Johnson and still an ex Remainer unlike Johnson he also loses more redwall seats than Johnson would to Labour and leaks more votes to RefUK
There won’t be a 1997 disaster unless the Tories stick with Boris, and the revulsion at Boris becomes the overwhelming sentiment. On the other hand - as I have often said - Boris is a winner and good campaigner and a lucky general and he might just swing a surprisingly decent victory. It is still 2 years away. Sticking with Boris is, weirdly, the bigger gamble, you could win big or lose terrible
Starmer is not Blair, there is no Brown, there is no Al Campbell, Labour now is not the predatory and ruthless New Labour of 1997. They are vague and toothless
So a moderate Tory like Hunt could also fend them off, and win back the Boris haters. Hunt is most unlikely to lose REALLY badly to Starmer
Another header which looks awfully like a nudge for the Tory MP readership of this blog.
Go on lads, you know you want to
Would Lib Dem pleading for Tory MPs to sack their leader will make Tories more or less likely to do so?
Is there an element of reverse psychology playing out?
I think you might have generously shared your insights with the LibDem leadership in previous incarnations. You were very vocal between 2016 and 2017!
FWIW - I think Johnson would just about hold on at the next election in 2024. None of the potential replacements have any appeal at all outside the activist base. And none have the brio to pull off a move to run against their party's record - or to bring the disgruntled europhiles back into the big tent.
What makes the call so difficult for Tory MPs is that amongst potential Tory leaders, Boris has simultaneously the highest ceiling and the lowest floor at the next election.
That's what makes the calculation so exquisitely cruel.
Putting someone like Hunt, Sunak or anyone sensible in is probably conceding defeat in 2024. Close and dignified, but defeat. Basically, it's 1964 all over again.
Keeping Boris in place probably leads to disaster. He will keep leaving unpleasant messes on the carpet, because he's never been house trained. But you never know... he might just pull it off.
I know which one I would go for, which one makes more rational sense, which one the numbers point to. But I'm not a professional politician, because as a career it doesn't make rational sense. I can see how the 1% gamble might be attractive- making a heap of all your winnings and risking it on one turn and all that.
But my only message to Conservative MPs, activists and Odyessian thinkers is- what did you think was going to happen when you elevated Johnson?
You are missing a factor. Each MP will be asking not only what is best for the chances of another Conservative government but also, what is best for me in my own seat? There will be many for whom a moderate defeat is better than a landslide. And it might even help their chances of promotion.
That makes the calculation even more painful, in a fun way.
The most vulnerable Conservative MPs have better survival odds with Bozza than with AN Other; it might be 1% against 0.1%, but they need the Boz magic (which, even now, is a real thing) to win next time. The next batch, who survive a narrow defeat but not a landslide, are the ones who need a change to be confident about their career plans.
Which group is bigger? More importantly, which group can persuade others that they are more important? I really don't know. Isn't maths fun?
The largest group of Tory MPs will be those who believe their seats are safe, regardless. So what's their motivation?
There might be some who have decided that a majority Labour government is preferable to a Hung Parliament in which the SNP call the tune, while defeat for the Tories is inevitable. And so, for the good of the Union, they are working to ensure that the Tory defeat is large enough to reach this threshold.
I tend to think that Michael Fabricant is in that group. It makes perfect sense of his actions and behaviour.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
I'd be happier if Hunt, Sunak or Mordaunt (or possibly, Javid, Wallace or Harper) took over , and suspect (but am not sure) that they would give Tories a better chance at the GE than retaining Johnson would. They are hardly short of options.
Another header which looks awfully like a nudge for the Tory MP readership of this blog.
Go on lads, you know you want to
You are so cynical. Next you will be suggesting that Mike has a financial interest in Boris's departure 😲
I don't
We all have a financial interest in Johnson's departure. Investment in sensible infrastructure, long term sustainable growth, rebalancing the economy (even, dare I say it, 'levelling up') are things more likely to happen under A N Other
Not if Boris is replaced by an austerity hawk or ideological nutjob. Always keep tight hold of nurse...
No. Johnson is the pits.
But then we thought that of May. less so of Cameron, until Greensill.
Perhaps tory PMs is the problem.
David Cameron was our worst Prime Minister since Lord North. Boris is sui generis — impossible to rate on any normal dimension. I'm not even sure the man is a liar, even though so much of what he says is false. Boris is our most unsuitable Prime Minister.
I don't agree on Cameron. He arguably bungled one thing that has had huge consequences, but overall he was a decent man trying his best and the country was fairly content.
Yeah, this. People don't get everything right. He got his biggest call wrong and handled it badly, but in a parallel universe Cameron might just be retiring after a successful 12 years as PM. He got most things right and believed in uniting the nation rather than dividing it, which to me is the key difference between his govt and its successors.
And having a stab at corruptly using his 12 years' worth of government contacts to make himself a billionaire. Does that not matter at all to you?
His post PM stuff I disapprove of, yes. And think May will make a better contribution to public life after leaving office than Cameron or Blair. I think our democracy would be better if ex PMs generally transitioned to elder statesmen (or women) rather than were expected to disappear from politics to make $$$$.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
I think the greens are also red because they think people will always put themselves before the environment. It's an evolutionary imperative. Therefore we have to take creating a thriving populace seriously, (I'm a green) but I strongly suspect the party would compromise on the amount of red if they got good green.
To a certain extent, it's about developing ways people can live worthwhile lives that don't need more, more, more. Which looks red from the outside, but from within, if it works, who cares what colour it is? It's better than destroying the liveability of the planet.
Cracking username, always wondered what happened to Mondeo man.
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
You call yourself a 'social liberal' but you voted for the Brexit Party in 2019 and support sending people to Rwanda. You are an extreme reactionary who makes HYUFD look very moderate.
I cast a protest vote in 2019 in part to get rid of an authoritarian anti-immigration PM that I despised. The Brexit Party were no more than a tool for that as far as I was concerned, it also ousted Nigel Farage from the European Parliament so another win there.
I am not a reactionary, I am very pro-immigration and am happy to have a liberalised immigration system that is fair to all regardless of where in the planet they were born, or what the colour of their skin is, rather than prioritising primarily white Europeans over the rest of the planet.
I hate that there is no better solution than the Rwanda one, but the Channel is not safe to cross via people smugglers and it causes misery and drownings and every other policy has failed to fix that, offshore relocation works. It halted such movements with Australia, which has more people proportionately immigrating than the UK does.
I'd be quite happy to have an Australian-style system where that means twice as many people arrive proportionately as do now, but those people are fairly able to get visas from around the world, and people don't drown in the English Channel getting here.
That's not what the reactionaries want, or what they mean by Australian-style.
Migrant crossings: Afghans are largest national group fleeing to UK
People fleeing Afghanistan were the largest group among migrants crossing the Channel in the early part of 2022.
Afghans made up one in four people making the risky journey, following the Taliban's return to power last summer.
New figures show almost as many Afghans crossed the Channel in the first three months of this year (1,094) as in the whole of 2021 (1,323).
In nine out of ten cases over the last year, people fleeing Afghanistan were granted refugee status.
I don't see how Australian style points systems affects this, unless there's a "refugee" box you can tick on the visa application.
Most of the Channel crossers are granted refugee/asylum status because they have destroyed their passports and any ID documents (“Oh I lost them in Belarus”). We have no choice but to accept them
It looks like Patel’s Rwanda plan is going to fail, the govt haven’t got the spine to do anything serious (which means flying ALL OF THEM to Rwanda for a few months) and we simply have to tolerate 40-100,000 crossing the Channel every year and letting them stay. At least they are the hardier and more enterprising, given that they have made it all the way to Calais and then successfully crossed. It is Darwinian selection at work
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
I'd be happier if Hunt, Sunak or Mordaunt (or possibly, Javid, Wallace or Harper) took over , and suspect (but am not sure) that they would give Tories a better chance at the GE than retaining Johnson would. They are hardly short of options.
If Johnson goes, not only is he likely to be replaced by someone more competent, but so will many of his cabinet. Can you see a replacement keeping Mogg or Patel in a job?
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
Possibly or he leads to 1997 style disaster. As Hunt remains committed to a harder Brexit than Starmer he still loses Remain seats to Labour and the LDs but as he is more fiscally conservative than Johnson and still an ex Remainer unlike Johnson he also loses more redwall seats than Johnson would to Labour and leaks more votes to RefUK
There won’t be a 1997 disaster unless the Tories stick with Boris, and the revulsion at Boris becomes the overwhelming sentiment. On the other hand - as I have often said - Boris is a winner and good campaigner and a lucky general and he might just swing a surprisingly decent victory. It is still 2 years away. Sticking with Boris is, weirdly, the bigger gamble, you could win big or lose terrible
Starmer is not Blair, there is no Brown, there is no Al Campbell, Labour now is not the predatory and ruthless New Labour of 1997. They are vague and toothless
So a moderate Tory like Hunt could also fend them off, and win back the Boris haters. Hunt is most unlikely to lose REALLY badly to Starmer
There is no Blair no but voters who went New Labour in 1997 but for whom Starmer is still too leftwing are going LD. However Boris is as you say a good campaigner and is also winning over still many working class Leave voters who voted Labour in 1997 and Referendum and UKIP voters from back then.
Replace Johnson with Hunt and not only may he fail to win back centrist Remainers from Starmer and the LDs as he still has to back a hard Brexit to win Tory members but he also loses working class redwallers back to Labour or RefUK, those voters still only voting Tory due to Boris mainly as in 2019.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
Possibly or he leads to 1997 style disaster. As Hunt remains committed to a harder Brexit than Starmer he still loses Remain seats to Labour and the LDs but as he is more fiscally conservative than Johnson and still an ex Remainer unlike Johnson he also loses more redwall seats than Johnson would to Labour and leaks more votes to RefUK
There won’t be a 1997 disaster unless the Tories stick with Boris, and the revulsion at Boris becomes the overwhelming sentiment. On the other hand - as I have often said - Boris is a winner and good campaigner and a lucky general and he might just swing a surprisingly decent victory. It is still 2 years away. Sticking with Boris is, weirdly, the bigger gamble, you could win big or lose terrible
Starmer is not Blair, there is no Brown, there is no Al Campbell, Labour now is not the predatory and ruthless New Labour of 1997. They are vague and toothless
So a moderate Tory like Hunt could also fend them off, and win back the Boris haters. Hunt is most unlikely to lose REALLY badly to Starmer
There is no Blair no but voters who went New Labour in 1997 but for whom Starmer is still leftwing are going LD. However Boris is as you say a good campaigner and is also winning over still many working class Leave voters who voted Labour in 1997 and Referendum and UKIP voters from back then.
Replace Johnson with Hunt and not only may he fail to win back centrist Remainers from Starmer and the LDs as he still has to back a hard Brexit to win Tory members but he also loses working class redwallers back to Labour or RefUK, those voters still only voting Tory due to Boris mainly as in 2019.
One thing people forget at their peril - financially, Labour is broke.
Putin is Hitler part 739 of an ongoing series. Looting art and taking it back to Mother Russia
“As Russia’s invasion of Ukraine began, the director of the Museum of Local History in Melitopol in the south-east of the country, Leila Ibrahimova, arranged for a hoard of gold artefacts from ancient Scythia to be hidden. Just a few weeks later, she was kidnapped and interrogated by Russian troops. They demanded to know where the Scythian gold was; she refused to cooperate. Subsequently the museum’s curator Galina Andriivna Kucher was taken at gunpoint to the museum and asked to show a Russian “expert” and agents where the gold was. She also refused to locate the collection. Kucher was later abducted from her home on 30 April and her whereabouts remains unknown.”
This has to be the most ludicrous thread header OGH has ever posted.
He is recommending the Conservatives follow the example of Labour in 2007 when they forced out 3 times general election winner Blair in favour of Brown who then lost the 2010 general election having had to abandon his plans for an early 2007 election with Labour then losing all 3 general elections since then too?
The Tories removing 2019 general election winner Johnson in the same way Labour removed 1997, 2001 and 2005 general election winner Blair is not good advice at all I suggest
It’s a betting site so has to raise possibility of changes on mood and the narrative on coming elections.
As soon as Boris Johnson loses a VONC, Tories will get a poll bounce. Fact.
There will be ding dong big dog is gone impromptu parties.
Not in my political lifetime have I known a PM so utterly hated and his government thought of as a ragtag and bobtail joke.
Another header which looks awfully like a nudge for the Tory MP readership of this blog.
Go on lads, you know you want to
Would Lib Dem pleading for Tory MPs to sack their leader will make Tories more or less likely to do so?
Is there an element of reverse psychology playing out?
I think you might have generously shared your insights with the LibDem leadership in previous incarnations. You were very vocal between 2016 and 2017!
FWIW - I think Johnson would just about hold on at the next election in 2024. None of the potential replacements have any appeal at all outside the activist base. And none have the brio to pull off a move to run against their party's record - or to bring the disgruntled europhiles back into the big tent.
What makes the call so difficult for Tory MPs is that amongst potential Tory leaders, Boris has simultaneously the highest ceiling and the lowest floor at the next election.
That's what makes the calculation so exquisitely cruel.
Putting someone like Hunt, Sunak or anyone sensible in is probably conceding defeat in 2024. Close and dignified, but defeat. Basically, it's 1964 all over again.
Keeping Boris in place probably leads to disaster. He will keep leaving unpleasant messes on the carpet, because he's never been house trained. But you never know... he might just pull it off.
I know which one I would go for, which one makes more rational sense, which one the numbers point to. But I'm not a professional politician, because as a career it doesn't make rational sense. I can see how the 1% gamble might be attractive- making a heap of all your winnings and risking it on one turn and all that.
But my only message to Conservative MPs, activists and Odyessian thinkers is- what did you think was going to happen when you elevated Johnson?
You are missing a factor. Each MP will be asking not only what is best for the chances of another Conservative government but also, what is best for me in my own seat? There will be many for whom a moderate defeat is better than a landslide. And it might even help their chances of promotion.
That makes the calculation even more painful, in a fun way.
The most vulnerable Conservative MPs have better survival odds with Bozza than with AN Other; it might be 1% against 0.1%, but they need the Boz magic (which, even now, is a real thing) to win next time. The next batch, who survive a narrow defeat but not a landslide, are the ones who need a change to be confident about their career plans.
Which group is bigger? More importantly, which group can persuade others that they are more important? I really don't know. Isn't maths fun?
The largest group of Tory MPs will be those who believe their seats are safe, regardless. So what's their motivation?
There might be some who have decided that a majority Labour government is preferable to a Hung Parliament in which the SNP call the tune, while defeat for the Tories is inevitable. And so, for the good of the Union, they are working to ensure that the Tory defeat is large enough to reach this threshold.
I tend to think that Michael Fabricant is in that group. It makes perfect sense of his actions and behaviour.
Might also lead to a purer Conservative opposition refreshing itself, rather than a dithering, aimless another 5 years in government a la 1992 to 1997 leading to landslide defeat anyway.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
Possibly or he leads to 1997 style disaster. As Hunt remains committed to a harder Brexit than Starmer he still loses Remain seats to Labour and the LDs but as he is more fiscally conservative than Johnson and still an ex Remainer unlike Johnson he also loses more redwall seats than Johnson would to Labour and leaks more votes to RefUK
There won’t be a 1997 disaster unless the Tories stick with Boris, and the revulsion at Boris becomes the overwhelming sentiment. On the other hand - as I have often said - Boris is a winner and good campaigner and a lucky general and he might just swing a surprisingly decent victory. It is still 2 years away. Sticking with Boris is, weirdly, the bigger gamble, you could win big or lose terrible
Starmer is not Blair, there is no Brown, there is no Al Campbell, Labour now is not the predatory and ruthless New Labour of 1997. They are vague and toothless
So a moderate Tory like Hunt could also fend them off, and win back the Boris haters. Hunt is most unlikely to lose REALLY badly to Starmer
Yes Hunt has a real chance. He is an established senior player with no recent exposure to the activities of the front bench team and their outcomes.
He comes across as sensible and assured and could present the calm measured approach which may play well to the public as we try to deal with cost of living and the post COVID environment.
there is no Al Campbell, Labour now is not the predatory and ruthless New Labour of 1997. They are vague and toothless
Oh, I don't know...
Interesting approach - piss them off so much they end up keeping Mr J in post, with the electoral benefits for Labour, LD and SNP which that generates.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
Possibly or he leads to 1997 style disaster. As Hunt remains committed to a harder Brexit than Starmer he still loses Remain seats to Labour and the LDs but as he is more fiscally conservative than Johnson and still an ex Remainer unlike Johnson he also loses more redwall seats than Johnson would to Labour and leaks more votes to RefUK
There won’t be a 1997 disaster unless the Tories stick with Boris, and the revulsion at Boris becomes the overwhelming sentiment. On the other hand - as I have often said - Boris is a winner and good campaigner and a lucky general and he might just swing a surprisingly decent victory. It is still 2 years away. Sticking with Boris is, weirdly, the bigger gamble, you could win big or lose terrible
Starmer is not Blair, there is no Brown, there is no Al Campbell, Labour now is not the predatory and ruthless New Labour of 1997. They are vague and toothless
So a moderate Tory like Hunt could also fend them off, and win back the Boris haters. Hunt is most unlikely to lose REALLY badly to Starmer
Yes Hunt has a real chance. He is an established senior player with no recent exposure to the activities of the front bench team and their outcomes.
He comes across as sensible and assured and could present the calm measured approach which may play well to the public as we try to deal with cost of living and the post COVID environment.
Jeremy Hunt also has a new book out this week. Is he doing the media rounds to plug his premiership book?
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
This is all true but the problem isn't the MPs, it's the membership.
Mr. Foremain, if it's Johnson versus Starmer I'm voting for neither.
I'd be likely to vote for Hunt or Sunak.
I think Hunt with someone Brexity like Baker as a deputy would be a winning formula. Competence, discipline, unity could be the banner. Everything The Clown is not.
Sounds a bit like that bizarre Clarke/Redwood leadership pitch from year noughties lol!
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Our Ukrainians are mystifyingly interested in it. I told them we don't venerate ancient tyrants in this house. Mrs DA told me to shut up and is taking them to some thing in the village.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
This is all true but the problem isn't the MPs, it's the membership.
This is true, but nobody knows what the membership will prioritise when they vote next time, even if lots of people (nearly always anti-Tory people) claim that they do.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
Possibly or he leads to 1997 style disaster. As Hunt remains committed to a harder Brexit than Starmer he still loses Remain seats to Labour and the LDs but as he is more fiscally conservative than Johnson and still an ex Remainer unlike Johnson he also loses more redwall seats than Johnson would to Labour and leaks more votes to RefUK
There won’t be a 1997 disaster unless the Tories stick with Boris, and the revulsion at Boris becomes the overwhelming sentiment. On the other hand - as I have often said - Boris is a winner and good campaigner and a lucky general and he might just swing a surprisingly decent victory. It is still 2 years away. Sticking with Boris is, weirdly, the bigger gamble, you could win big or lose terrible
Starmer is not Blair, there is no Brown, there is no Al Campbell, Labour now is not the predatory and ruthless New Labour of 1997. They are vague and toothless
So a moderate Tory like Hunt could also fend them off, and win back the Boris haters. Hunt is most unlikely to lose REALLY badly to Starmer
There is no Blair no but voters who went New Labour in 1997 but for whom Starmer is still leftwing are going LD. However Boris is as you say a good campaigner and is also winning over still many working class Leave voters who voted Labour in 1997 and Referendum and UKIP voters from back then.
Replace Johnson with Hunt and not only may he fail to win back centrist Remainers from Starmer and the LDs as he still has to back a hard Brexit to win Tory members but he also loses working class redwallers back to Labour or RefUK, those voters still only voting Tory due to Boris mainly as in 2019.
One thing people forget at their peril - financially, Labour is broke.
Hopefully the data leak case will drive them deeper into financial doom
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
Like Selebian, my youngest (5) was disappointed the Queen didn't turn up at the school for the party.
This has to be the most ludicrous thread header OGH has ever posted.
He is recommending the Conservatives follow the example of Labour in 2007 when they forced out 3 times general election winner Blair in favour of Brown who then lost the 2010 general election having had to abandon his plans for an early 2007 election with Labour then losing all 3 general elections since then too?
The Tories removing 2019 general election winner Johnson in the same way Labour removed 1997, 2001 and 2005 general election winner Blair is not good advice at all I suggest
It’s a betting site so has to raise possibility of changes on mood and the narrative on coming elections.
As soon as Boris Johnson loses a VONC, Tories will get a poll bounce. Fact.
There will be ding dong big dog is gone impromptu parties.
Not in my political lifetime have I known a PM so utterly hated and his government thought of as a ragtag and bobtail joke.
Presumably this sort of thing - vide Samuel Pepys in his Diary for 6th March 1659:
"The dining-room... was full of tag, rag, and bobtail, dancing, singing, and drinking."
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Our Ukrainians are mystifyingly interested in it. I told them we don't venerate ancient tyrants in this house. Mrs DA told me to shut up and is taking them to some thing in the village.
I just had a plastic muffin from Costa with a crown on the top and a National Front paper wrapper (at least I think that was it - it was covered in union flags, anyway.)
It was half price because they hadn't sold any all week and they were going off.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Our Ukrainians are mystifyingly interested in it. I told them we don't venerate ancient tyrants in this house. Mrs DA told me to shut up and is taking them to some thing in the village.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
This is all true but the problem isn't the MPs, it's the membership.
The membership could well vote for Rees Mogg or Patel or Truss over Hunt of course.
It would be particularly amusing if an attempt to replace Boris with Hunt ends up with PM Rees Mogg or Patel
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Wrong Sort of Jubilee. Obvs the schoolteachers need Re-education Proper.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
Like Selebian, my youngest (5) was disappointed the Queen didn't turn up at the school for the party.
This hasn't been happening at my daughter's primary! No jubilee-related things at all, and she hasn't even mentioned it in the last week.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Just look at yourself and for one - for once in your life - realise that you don't have to see someone saying something that might be slightly different to what you have said as a personal challenge.
Just a thought about whether letters could go in to get rid of Boris.
I'm a traditional Tory voter who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I could just about stomach all the rubbish that has gone on lately because I saw the alternative as being worse. But is it really worse now? The Tories have turned into Labour splashing the cash indiscriminately. They are going to give me (and millions of others) a cash handout and then up my taxes to pay for it. That is not the Conservative way. That is classic Labour policy.
I have now turned. The Tories will not get my vote with Boris in charge as they are basically Labour in disguise. I'm obviously not going to vote Labour but the lack of my vote makes it far more likely others will get in. We have a council by-election coming up soon. I may just give a vote to the Greens for their local sustainable approach.
Now, if how I feel is how Tory MPs feel then maybe they might just send in their letters (e.g. John Redwood). It might not be partygate but instead the transformation of the Tory Party into the Labour Party.
I agree with everything you wrote, but couldn't vote for the Greens as they are Watermelons that are almost as bad as Corbyn's Labour.
The only ones I could just about stomach are the Lib Dems, but their NIMBYism puts me off. Other than that, who is a socially liberal, dry as dust conservative supposed to vote for?
You call yourself a 'social liberal' but you voted for the Brexit Party in 2019 and support sending people to Rwanda. You are an extreme reactionary who makes HYUFD look very moderate.
I cast a protest vote in 2019 in part to get rid of an authoritarian anti-immigration PM that I despised. The Brexit Party were no more than a tool for that as far as I was concerned, it also ousted Nigel Farage from the European Parliament so another win there.
I am not a reactionary, I am very pro-immigration and am happy to have a liberalised immigration system that is fair to all regardless of where in the planet they were born, or what the colour of their skin is, rather than prioritising primarily white Europeans over the rest of the planet.
I hate that there is no better solution than the Rwanda one, but the Channel is not safe to cross via people smugglers and it causes misery and drownings and every other policy has failed to fix that, offshore relocation works. It halted such movements with Australia, which has more people proportionately immigrating than the UK does.
I'd be quite happy to have an Australian-style system where that means twice as many people arrive proportionately as do now, but those people are fairly able to get visas from around the world, and people don't drown in the English Channel getting here.
That's not what the reactionaries want, or what they mean by Australian-style.
Migrant crossings: Afghans are largest national group fleeing to UK
People fleeing Afghanistan were the largest group among migrants crossing the Channel in the early part of 2022.
Afghans made up one in four people making the risky journey, following the Taliban's return to power last summer.
New figures show almost as many Afghans crossed the Channel in the first three months of this year (1,094) as in the whole of 2021 (1,323).
In nine out of ten cases over the last year, people fleeing Afghanistan were granted refugee status.
I don't see how Australian style points systems affects this, unless there's a "refugee" box you can tick on the visa application.
Most of the Channel crossers are granted refugee/asylum status because they have destroyed their passports and any ID documents (“Oh I lost them in Belarus”). We have no choice but to accept them
It looks like Patel’s Rwanda plan is going to fail, the govt haven’t got the spine to do anything serious (which means flying ALL OF THEM to Rwanda for a few months) and we simply have to tolerate 40-100,000 crossing the Channel every year and letting them stay. At least they are the hardier and more enterprising, given that they have made it all the way to Calais and then successfully crossed. It is Darwinian selection at work
I bet there is massive overlap between people who get worked up about migrant crossings and people who get worked up about cyclists running red lights. Both reflect anger at people breaking the rules (without wondering whether the rules are fair or sensible) and fear that someone is gaining some advantage that isn't available to them. In both cases I would tend to step back and take a more balanced view. In the case of the migrants, think about what they are escaping from and what they these highly motivated people who really want to be here could add to our economy. In the case of the cyclists, think about how they are aiding the flow of traffic. But of course some people just enjoy the visceral thrill of the gut rage too much to surrender to reason.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Pish posh, what the schools are doing has been officially organised and I bet there are far more people involved with primary schools (and I bet secondary are doing similar) as are involved with beacons.
Thursday may be the start of the Bank Holiday weekend, but plenty of Jubilee stuff is already underway. I'd have thought you'd be happy with that, but I guess you'd rather have a stick somewhere uncomfortable instead.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
This is all true but the problem isn't the MPs, it's the membership.
The membership could well vote for Rees Mogg or Patel or Truss over Hunt of course
Neither Rees Mogg nor Patel have any chance of getting through the MP first stage. I suspect that Hunt would narrowly beat Truss if it is those two who make it through to the membership. He would be the safer tried-and-trusted choice.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
Putin is Hitler part 739 of an ongoing series. Looting art and taking it back to Mother Russia
“As Russia’s invasion of Ukraine began, the director of the Museum of Local History in Melitopol in the south-east of the country, Leila Ibrahimova, arranged for a hoard of gold artefacts from ancient Scythia to be hidden. Just a few weeks later, she was kidnapped and interrogated by Russian troops. They demanded to know where the Scythian gold was; she refused to cooperate. Subsequently the museum’s curator Galina Andriivna Kucher was taken at gunpoint to the museum and asked to show a Russian “expert” and agents where the gold was. She also refused to locate the collection. Kucher was later abducted from her home on 30 April and her whereabouts remains unknown.”
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
Like Selebian, my youngest (5) was disappointed the Queen didn't turn up at the school for the party.
This hasn't been happening at my daughter's primary! No jubilee-related things at all, and she hasn't even mentioned it in the last week.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
Like Selebian, my youngest (5) was disappointed the Queen didn't turn up at the school for the party.
Those who are touting Penny Mordaunt for next Tory leader may be interested in her piece today on Conservative Home. Ostensibly about a US trade deal, she starts off by replaying the Tories' greatest victories (the Falklands, Brexit, defeating Scottish independence), then moves on to a virulent attack on the "liberal left". It reads very much like a leadership pitch to me.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Many schools (including ours) are on half term over the Jubilee itself, so they've either done it already, or aren't going to be. I half expected a Jubilee lunch or something that I could grumble about, but nothing!
The Beacon thing is funny. For some reason they've picked Castle Mound in Cambridge for the beacon lighting. One of the notable things about Castle Mound is that it is entirely hemmed in by buildings and trees which means there will be *no way* you will see the beacon unless you are actually assembled around its base.
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
This is all true but the problem isn't the MPs, it's the membership.
The membership could well vote for Rees Mogg or Patel or Truss over Hunt of course
Neither Rees Mogg nor Patel have any chance of getting through the MP first stage. I suspect that Hunt would narrowly beat Truss if it is those two who make it through to the membership. He would be the safer tried-and-trusted choice.
Not necessarily, the right would likely have a candidate in the final 2 even if Hunt came first with MPs and Patel would certainly stand as might Rees Mogg.
Wallace I also think would beat Hunt with the membership
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
Like Selebian, my youngest (5) was disappointed the Queen didn't turn up at the school for the party.
This hasn't been happening at my daughter's primary! No jubilee-related things at all, and she hasn't even mentioned it in the last week.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Pish posh, what the schools are doing has been officially organised and I bet there are far more people involved with primary schools (and I bet secondary are doing similar) as are involved with beacons.
Thursday may be the start of the Bank Holiday weekend, but plenty of Jubilee stuff is already underway. I'd have thought you'd be happy with that, but I guess you'd rather have a stick somewhere uncomfortable instead.
Beacons are being lit in every town and city in the UK. Primary school celebrations are mainly for them and their parents
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Many schools (including ours) are on half term over the Jubilee itself, so they've either done it already, or aren't going to be. I half expected a Jubilee lunch or something that I could grumble about, but nothing!
The Beacon thing is funny. For some reason they've picked Castle Mound in Cambridge for the beacon lighting. One of the notable things about Castle Mound is that it is entirely hemmed in by buildings and trees which means there will be *no way* you will see the beacon unless you are actually assembled around its base.
PLease ignore my question - answered!
Not as if there is much choice locally. Are the Gog Magog Range all privately owned or something? A golf course ISTR?
This has to be the most ludicrous thread header OGH has ever posted.
He is recommending the Conservatives follow the example of Labour in 2007 when they forced out 3 times general election winner Blair in favour of Brown who then lost the 2010 general election having had to abandon his plans for an early 2007 election with Labour then losing all 3 general elections since then too?
The Tories removing 2019 general election winner Johnson in the same way Labour removed 1997, 2001 and 2005 general election winner Blair is not good advice at all I suggest
It’s a betting site so has to raise possibility of changes on mood and the narrative on coming elections.
As soon as Boris Johnson loses a VONC, Tories will get a poll bounce. Fact.
There will be ding dong big dog is gone impromptu parties.
Not in my political lifetime have I known a PM so utterly hated and his government thought of as a ragtag and bobtail joke.
It was difficult to watch Boris sitting beside Rishi as he delivered his cost of living statement yesterday as his expressions varied from bewildered, lost, dismayed and that look he gives of an angry public schoolboy who has lost an argument and wants to take his ball away
He just has to go, and his mps need to accept he is very much a dead weight over their party and the country
I do find @HYUFD's posts, constantly battling on Boris's behalf, as blind loyalty, but absolute delusion
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Pish posh, what the schools are doing has been officially organised and I bet there are far more people involved with primary schools (and I bet secondary are doing similar) as are involved with beacons.
Thursday may be the start of the Bank Holiday weekend, but plenty of Jubilee stuff is already underway. I'd have thought you'd be happy with that, but I guess you'd rather have a stick somewhere uncomfortable instead.
Beacons are being lit in every town and city in the UK. Primary school celebrations are mainly for them and their parents
Primary schools are in every town and city in the UK too.
You're being as ridiculous as someone saying Christmas doesn't start until 25 December when people have Christmas Trees and Christmas songs and Christmas parties all throughout December.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Just look at yourself and for one - for once in your life - realise that you don't have to see someone saying something that might be slightly different to what you have said as a personal challenge.
I will post what I like, when I like within OHH's rules
Given that HY posts "Nothing has Changed!!!" shrieks in pretty much every thread now, can I check with mods if asking if he and Theresa May have ever been seen in the same room?
Its just that I know we reportedly have MPs in here, some ex, some lurking and I don't want to be accused of doxxing...
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Just look at yourself and for one - for once in your life - realise that you don't have to see someone saying something that might be slightly different to what you have said as a personal challenge.
I will post what I like, when I like within OHH's rules
And people will criticise you for it when it's richly deserved - which, with you, it usually is.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Pish posh, what the schools are doing has been officially organised and I bet there are far more people involved with primary schools (and I bet secondary are doing similar) as are involved with beacons.
Thursday may be the start of the Bank Holiday weekend, but plenty of Jubilee stuff is already underway. I'd have thought you'd be happy with that, but I guess you'd rather have a stick somewhere uncomfortable instead.
Beacons are being lit in every town and city in the UK. Primary school celebrations are mainly for them and their parents
Primary schools are in every town and city in the UK too.
You're being as ridiculous as someone saying Christmas doesn't start until 25 December when people have Christmas Trees and Christmas songs and Christmas parties all throughout December.
Christmas season does not start either officially until December 25th, the first day of Christmas
Those who are touting Penny Mordaunt for next Tory leader may be interested in her piece today on Conservative Home. Ostensibly about a US trade deal, she starts off by replaying the Tories' greatest victories (the Falklands, Brexit, defeating Scottish independence), then moves on to a virulent attack on the "liberal left". It reads very much like a leadership pitch to me.
Those who are touting Penny Mordaunt for next Tory leader may be interested in her piece today on Conservative Home. Ostensibly about a US trade deal, she starts off by replaying the Tories' greatest victories (the Falklands, Brexit, defeating Scottish independence), then moves on to a virulent attack on the "liberal left". It reads very much like a leadership pitch to me.
Those who are touting Penny Mordaunt for next Tory leader may be interested in her piece today on Conservative Home. Ostensibly about a US trade deal, she starts off by replaying the Tories' greatest victories (the Falklands, Brexit, defeating Scottish independence), then moves on to a virulent attack on the "liberal left". It reads very much like a leadership pitch to me.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Pish posh, what the schools are doing has been officially organised and I bet there are far more people involved with primary schools (and I bet secondary are doing similar) as are involved with beacons.
Thursday may be the start of the Bank Holiday weekend, but plenty of Jubilee stuff is already underway. I'd have thought you'd be happy with that, but I guess you'd rather have a stick somewhere uncomfortable instead.
Beacons are being lit in every town and city in the UK. Primary school celebrations are mainly for them and their parents
Primary schools are in every town and city in the UK too.
You're being as ridiculous as someone saying Christmas doesn't start until 25 December when people have Christmas Trees and Christmas songs and Christmas parties all throughout December.
Christmas season does not start either officially until December 25th, the first day of Christmas
"Christmas season" being advent. Which starts way before that. As you surely know Theresa being the daughter of a clergyman and all.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Pish posh, what the schools are doing has been officially organised and I bet there are far more people involved with primary schools (and I bet secondary are doing similar) as are involved with beacons.
Thursday may be the start of the Bank Holiday weekend, but plenty of Jubilee stuff is already underway. I'd have thought you'd be happy with that, but I guess you'd rather have a stick somewhere uncomfortable instead.
Beacons are being lit in every town and city in the UK. Primary school celebrations are mainly for them and their parents
Primary schools are in every town and city in the UK too.
You're being as ridiculous as someone saying Christmas doesn't start until 25 December when people have Christmas Trees and Christmas songs and Christmas parties all throughout December.
Christmas season does not start either officially until December 25th, the first day of Christmas
Christmas season starts when they start playing only Christmas songs on Magic, around the end of November. That's what it says in the Bible anyway. And who are we to argue with the literal word of God?
I’m increasingly of the mind to begin my sentences pompously, sorry, I’m beginning to wonder if Jez Hunt has a real chance
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
I went off Hunt when he started doing his EUSSR stuff at the post-Brexit Tory conference. I know he's a politician and some kind of pandering to the zeitgeist is inevitable, but I found it at best undignified and at worst morally nihilistic - if he thought the EU was akin to the Soviet Union why was he recommending we stay in it only a few weeks before?
My only doubts on Hunt were his slight dalliance with homeopathy. I believe he put it down to naivety, but he should have known better. Otherwise I think he is pretty good.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Haven't seen a single Union Flag. Apart from the giant one all over the front of the UKG HQ near Waverley Station. But that is always there.
We have been travelling throughout the West Highlands during the past three weeks. Nowhere was there any evidence of the forthcoming jubilee.
The Jubilee doesn't start until Thursday with the beacon lighting in towns and cities across the UK, including Scotland
The Jubilee began weeks ago in Primary Schools at the very least and has reached a crescendo this week.
This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
So what, the Jubilee still does not officially start until Thursday when the beacons are lit whatever schools may be doing
Pish posh, what the schools are doing has been officially organised and I bet there are far more people involved with primary schools (and I bet secondary are doing similar) as are involved with beacons.
Thursday may be the start of the Bank Holiday weekend, but plenty of Jubilee stuff is already underway. I'd have thought you'd be happy with that, but I guess you'd rather have a stick somewhere uncomfortable instead.
Beacons are being lit in every town and city in the UK. Primary school celebrations are mainly for them and their parents
Ironic really given the cost of fuel. Complete waste of expensive energy.
*checks*
And "every town and city in the UK" appears to be demonstrably untrue, on a quick google check.
How much of a big deal do people think the Jubilee celebrations will be?
It's possible that they will act to draw a line under the whole affair, a forgiveness of past sins, and a fresh start.
My 4 year old son had his playgroup jubilee party ("for the Queen") yesterday. He was pretty dispapointed that the Queen didn't bother to turn up; I think he might now be a republican
More seriously, I think the CoL situation might limit what people want to do. But then, I was sceptical of there being much fuss for the last jubilee and that turned out to be a fairly big deal.
For me it will be no deal at all, totally ignored.
We had booked a narrowboat holiday before realising it meant leaving home, where the jubilee is being ignored, and going to Middle England, where we fear it will be all around us. 😱
Our Ukrainians are mystifyingly interested in it. I told them we don't venerate ancient tyrants in this house. Mrs DA told me to shut up and is taking them to some thing in the village.
I live securely in Middle England: almost as Middle as you can get. C.100 miles to the sea in just about any direction), traditional Tory Parliamentary majority (though currently LibDem-led County and district councils), average age over 50, slightly more Ukrainian flags flying than Union flags - and of course NO English flags - but both massively outnumbered by pennants for next month's (non-Jubilee) local festivals.
The foci of interest are the dozens of localish opera, visual arts, drama, literature, beer, dog, garden and rock festivals that take up every weekend, every year, from Ascensiontide to the late summer Bank Holiday. This year, many with some king of Jubilee twist - but prob. just as many with a Ukraine/refugee twist - and possibly by the time they take place, with a partygate/election/isn't-Johnson-a-pillock twist.
The dominant issue about Whit weekend isn't what we think of the monarchy or the Union: it's so self-evident that Elizabeth has served us infinitely better than the tossers who've run France and the US (or the homunculi who've done piss all as Heads of State in Germany or Switzerland) over the past 70 years, it's not worth discussing. The issue is what's the weather going to be like for the BBQ's planned around the four day weekend.
Comments
The government who wants to send folk to Rwanda or the one which doesn't? The one which wants to ban noisy protest or not?
And yes, you might, as an individual, be micturating into the oncoming storm, but you only have one vote, and the ability to encourage others to do likewise.
We have to prepare for a moment, soon, when Putin has taken the eastern provinces and he has his land corridor to Crimea and he declares “victory”.
He will then hope that the West slowly fragments, sanctions are dropped in one country after another, and we adjust to the bitter but tolerable new reality - tolerable for all but the poor Ukrainians, of course - especially those who, at this point, find themselves inside Putin’s Empire of Rape, Kidnap and Torture
That does place you a considerable distance to the right of the centre of political gravity in Britain.
Just on anything to do with economics or Brexit, and sometimes party politics, he is way, way too dogmatic and obsessed with winning arguments.
A General Election is different though. I wouldn't do so to send someone to Parliament, that's the difference. There was zero risk that whoever you voted for at the EU elections would end up in Parliament.
The most vulnerable Conservative MPs have better survival odds with Bozza than with AN Other; it might be 1% against 0.1%, but they need the Boz magic (which, even now, is a real thing) to win next time. The next batch, who survive a narrow defeat but not a landslide, are the ones who need a change to be confident about their career plans.
Which group is bigger? More importantly, which group can persuade others that they are more important? I really don't know. Isn't maths fun?
I’ve always dismissed him before as a Remainer, and therefore with no chance. But Tory MPs are surely getting a bit desperate, and Brexit-purity is receding as a factor (as it should). Hunt is competent and reliable without being entirely dull like Starmer. He is persuasive, intelligent, moderate, fiscally sensible. He would save a lot of Remainy seats from the Lib Dems. He would make the Tories look more Cameroony. He’d lose a chunk of the Red Wall but he might win BACK seats elsewhere
I can see him scraping the Tories to a narrow maj. Hmm
Bonus points for destroying Zaporizhzhia and the Ukrainian aero engine industry on the way through.
To a certain extent, it's about developing ways people can live worthwhile lives that don't need more, more, more. Which looks red from the outside, but from within, if it works, who cares what colour it is? It's better than destroying the liveability of the planet.
But “defeat” is possible for the brave Ukrainians, we have to accept it. And Macron, Scholz, Draghi and Orban will be rushing to make peace in Moscow, and they will push for the easing of sanctions…
This is even before the additional £25bn needed to restore the triple lock and uprating of benefits by CPI inflation.
This Tory government is going to bankrupt the nation and the opposition is simply egging them on and would be worse were they in charge.
He will still win red wall seats that the Tories will otherwise have no chance.
When the Press swing full scale behind him and start on SKS who will crack like a cheap egg
Tory Maj circa 50 will result IMO
However. All the positives you quote are the precise reasons the members won't touch him with a shitty stick.
People fleeing Afghanistan were the largest group among migrants crossing the Channel in the early part of 2022.
Afghans made up one in four people making the risky journey, following the Taliban's return to power last summer.
New figures show almost as many Afghans crossed the Channel in the first three months of this year (1,094) as in the whole of 2021 (1,323).
In nine out of ten cases over the last year, people fleeing Afghanistan were granted refugee status.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61590249
I don't see how Australian style points systems affects this, unless there's a "refugee" box you can tick on the visa application.
"Party of big spend"
That may mean those specific refugees don't make it and others do instead, but that's OK. Its safe, and humane and helping genuine refugees.
Starmer is not Blair, there is no Brown, there is no Al Campbell, Labour now is not the predatory and ruthless New Labour of 1997. They are vague and toothless
So a moderate Tory like Hunt could also fend them off, and win back the Boris haters. Hunt is most unlikely to lose REALLY badly to Starmer
There might be some who have decided that a majority Labour government is preferable to a Hung Parliament in which the SNP call the tune, while defeat for the Tories is inevitable. And so, for the good of the Union, they are working to ensure that the Tory defeat is large enough to reach this threshold.
I tend to think that Michael Fabricant is in that group. It makes perfect sense of his actions and behaviour.
It looks like Patel’s Rwanda plan is going to fail, the govt haven’t got the spine to do anything serious (which means flying ALL OF THEM to Rwanda for a few months) and we simply have to tolerate 40-100,000 crossing the Channel every year and letting them stay. At least they are the hardier and more enterprising, given that they have made it all the way to Calais and then successfully crossed. It is Darwinian selection at work
leftwing are going LD. However Boris is as you say a good campaigner and is also winning over still many working class Leave voters who voted Labour in 1997 and Referendum and UKIP voters from back then.
Replace Johnson with Hunt and not only may he fail to win back centrist Remainers from Starmer and the LDs as he still has to back a hard Brexit to win Tory members but he also loses working class redwallers back to Labour or RefUK, those voters still only voting Tory due to Boris mainly as in 2019.
“As Russia’s invasion of Ukraine began, the director of the Museum of Local History in Melitopol in the south-east of the country, Leila Ibrahimova, arranged for a hoard of gold artefacts from ancient Scythia to be hidden. Just a few weeks later, she was kidnapped and interrogated by Russian troops. They demanded to know where the Scythian gold was; she refused to cooperate. Subsequently the museum’s curator Galina Andriivna Kucher was taken at gunpoint to the museum and asked to show a Russian “expert” and agents where the gold was. She also refused to locate the collection. Kucher was later abducted from her home on 30 April and her whereabouts remains unknown.”
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2022/may/27/ukraine-russia-looting-museums?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
@Dura_Ace and @OnlyLivingBoy will no doubt be pleased that Their Man Vlad is proving so resolute
As soon as Boris Johnson loses a VONC, Tories will get a poll bounce. Fact.
There will be ding dong big dog is gone impromptu parties.
Not in my political lifetime have I known a PM so utterly hated and his government thought of as a ragtag and bobtail joke.
He comes across as sensible and assured and could present the calm measured approach which may play well to the public as we try to deal with cost of living and the post COVID environment.
premiershipbook?This week we've had our kids come home with union flags they'd painted at school, they had a "street party" in the playground on Wednesday, and a Jubilee Ball after school yesterday. The school is completely bedecked in flags, bunting and pictures of the Queen.
Like Selebian, my youngest (5) was disappointed the Queen didn't turn up at the school for the party.
"The dining-room... was full of tag, rag, and bobtail, dancing, singing, and drinking."
Not this Rabbit & Co.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ogs24ohAtc
It was half price because they hadn't sold any all week and they were going off.
It would be particularly amusing if an attempt to replace Boris with Hunt ends up with PM Rees Mogg or Patel
Thursday may be the start of the Bank Holiday weekend, but plenty of Jubilee stuff is already underway. I'd have thought you'd be happy with that, but I guess you'd rather have a stick somewhere uncomfortable instead.
Bloody Nazis.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/us-looted-ancient-artifacts-iraq-b1896878.html
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2022/05/penny-mordaunt-they-said-a-us-trade-deal-couldnt-be-done-it-can-we-are-doing-it.html
The Beacon thing is funny. For some reason they've picked Castle Mound in Cambridge for the beacon lighting. One of the notable things about Castle Mound is that it is entirely hemmed in by buildings and trees which means there will be *no way* you will see the beacon unless you are actually assembled around its base.
Wallace I also think would beat Hunt with the membership
Not as if there is much choice locally. Are the Gog Magog Range all privately owned or something? A golf course ISTR?
He just has to go, and his mps need to accept he is very much a dead weight over their party and the country
I do find @HYUFD's posts, constantly battling on Boris's behalf, as blind loyalty, but absolute delusion
You're being as ridiculous as someone saying Christmas doesn't start until 25 December when people have Christmas Trees and Christmas songs and Christmas parties all throughout December.
London's Jubilee Line was specifically named for the Silver Jubilee in 1977. Even though the first section didn't open until 1979.
Its just that I know we reportedly have MPs in here, some ex, some lurking and I don't want to be accused of doxxing...
Mordaunt annoys me even more than other tories because when she was SecDef she awarded herself the submariner's dolphins without qualifying for them.
*checks*
And "every town and city in the UK" appears to be demonstrably untrue, on a quick google check.
The foci of interest are the dozens of localish opera, visual arts, drama, literature, beer, dog, garden and rock festivals that take up every weekend, every year, from Ascensiontide to the late summer Bank Holiday. This year, many with some king of Jubilee twist - but prob. just as many with a Ukraine/refugee twist - and possibly by the time they take place, with a partygate/election/isn't-Johnson-a-pillock twist.
The dominant issue about Whit weekend isn't what we think of the monarchy or the Union: it's so self-evident that Elizabeth has served us infinitely better than the tossers who've run France and the US (or the homunculi who've done piss all as Heads of State in Germany or Switzerland) over the past 70 years, it's not worth discussing. The issue is what's the weather going to be like for the BBQ's planned around the four day weekend.