Wow thanks for sharing that, that has to be one of the most incredible pictures of Manhattan that I've ever seen. Very cool. 👍
It's a tiny bit misleading for that photo to be tweeted by a space/astronomy tweep without further comment. That "photo" is a few years old now, and is a composite from a series of aerial photos taken from helicopters. It's certainly very striking, but it's definitely neither from space nor from a single exposure.
That account is also doing the PoliticsForAli trick, of reposting the content of others without proper credit.
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Or Keir Starmer.
I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.
The hypocrisy is strong.
Who are you trying to convince? Yourself maybe? Here is a better approach.
Boris was not fined but others were for that same event. So perhaps the rozzers concluded that saying goodbye to colleagues at a leaving do counts as a legitimate work event (allowed) but that after the Prime Minister left, it degenerated into a no holds barred booze-up (verboten).
That's entirely possible and if that is the case then on your own logic the PM is not a liar since when he attended the event it was a lawful event and when people brought it up he could truthfully say that he thought all guidelines were followed as they were while he was present.
Either you accept that alcohol was allowed, in which case the PM is not a liar just because alcohol is present, or you believe that alcohol was verboten, in which case Keir Starmer is a liar and a hypocrite.
You can't have it both ways. Anyone who tries to is just revelling in their own hypocrisy.
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".
She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.
It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.
I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.
I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.
Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
Your red line? Yes. The legal red line? No. Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.
Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
I remember Friday 13th Nov 2020 because that was the first day that Mrs Foxy was redeployed to covid ICU, prevaccination. She caught it a few days later.
The 2 events were six months apart, and in that 6 months a lot happened.
Were the rules identical on Nov 13th 2020 (before the first vaccination and during a steep rise in cases) and in April 21 (when 50% of the British population had at least one vaccination and cases were swiftly dropping)?
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Or Keir Starmer.
I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.
The hypocrisy is strong.
The hypocrisy is definitely there, of course. In fact in most major national controversies in recent years both sides have been hypocritical - it's what happens when people see things through a partisan lens.
However, seeing the difference between the one rather dull looking affair in Durham and a culture of regular parties across the Westminster estate including DJs and Karaoke is not partisan hypocrisy, it's how the general public also see it - they are not stupid.
As a Lib Dem I am of course crossing my fingers nothing equivalent even to Keir's curry comes up, but to be honest I severely doubt it.
Agreed. I'd also note that difference between Nov and the following May in terms of the pandemic is also considerable.
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".
She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.
It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.
I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.
I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.
Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
Your red line? Yes. The legal red line? No. Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.
Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
There is no legal red line, that's the point. And actually I think you've misunderstood both my and TimS (if I understand him correctly) point.
The problem in politics and why all politicians eventually fail, a rule to which Boris will be no exception and even Thatcher was no exception, is that eventually those in charge piss off enough people and those people add up over time in a series of breaches of trust rather than one individual mega-event pissing off everyone.
For me, that breach was taxes. For others that breach might be something else. All political leaders eventually do this, eventually there are enough aggrieved backbenchers or voters willing to support a change.
Hell there's a phrase for this that is apposite in real life for this effect: The straw that broke the camel's back.
PS I'm not the only poster aggrieved about the taxes issue. I could name at least half a dozen other right-wing economically former Conservative voters who think the same on that, so its hardly unique even if it isn't sufficient on its own.
Yup, and that's the other unique Johnson gift that has propelled him up the greasy pole. His brilliance at turning up the heat on the frog.
Most people who survive a narrow scrape are more cautious as a result, at least for a bit.
The lesson Johnson takes from surviving something is "phwoar, next time I can sail even closer to the wind." Not a totally dumb strategy if you want to get right to the top.
What should really concern Conservative MPs is the likelihood that, if they tolerate this, Johnson will do something even worse next year.
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
Perdue is a vile racist scumbag as are the entire rotten edifice of the GOP. The GOP needs to be torn down from top to bottom, Abraham Lincoln would be rolling in his grave ashamed of what his party has become.
Notable that the NYT, the habitual refuge of bothsidesism, actually called it out as racist.
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Or Keir Starmer.
I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.
The hypocrisy is strong.
Who are you trying to convince? Yourself maybe? Here is a better approach.
Boris was not fined but others were for that same event. So perhaps the rozzers concluded that saying goodbye to colleagues at a leaving do counts as a legitimate work event (allowed) but that after the Prime Minister left, it degenerated into a no holds barred booze-up (verboten).
That's entirely possible and if that is the case then on your own logic the PM is not a liar since when he attended the event it was a lawful event and when people brought it up he could truthfully say that he thought all guidelines were followed as they were while he was present.
Either you accept that alcohol was allowed, in which case the PM is not a liar just because alcohol is present, or you believe that alcohol was verboten, in which case Keir Starmer is a liar and a hypocrite.
You can't have it both ways. Anyone who tries to is just revelling in their own hypocrisy.
Alcohol as part of a meal is clearly not the same as alcohol at a party or leaving do. Everyone can see that, including the government (prop, B Johnson) who early in the pandemic had us all debating whether a scotch egg constituted a meal. Alcohol per se is not the key factor but the wider event (campaign for Starmer, leaving do for Boris).
The only question Tory MP's need to reflect on is how badly will they lose with Bozo at the next general election :
A toxic PM with a toxic cost of living crisis = a toxic result. Simple really. No change = no chance. Put your letters in and let's be done with this embarrassment of a Prime Minister.
Thank you.
I've given that a like, Jack, not because it was a particularly good post but because at your great age it is wonderful to see you can still operate a keyboard. Well done.
Keep going old codger.
Operate my own keyboard ?!?!?!
I have staff for such matters. I've appointed a - KO-TOTY- Keyboard Operator - Tipster Of The Year ... (Historical PB JackW /PtP )
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".
She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.
It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.
I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.
I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.
Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
Your red line? Yes. The legal red line? No. Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.
Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
PS I'm not the only poster aggrieved about the taxes issue. I could name at least half a dozen other right-wing economically former Conservative voters who think the same on that, so its hardly unique even if it isn't sufficient on its own.
No you're not, it's true.
However, conflating that with the partying is rather disingenuous. Putting up taxes may piss you off but it doesn't break the law.
It's slightly disturbing that you don't seem to understand the difference.
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Or Keir Starmer.
I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.
The hypocrisy is strong.
Who are you trying to convince? Yourself maybe? Here is a better approach.
Boris was not fined but others were for that same event. So perhaps the rozzers concluded that saying goodbye to colleagues at a leaving do counts as a legitimate work event (allowed) but that after the Prime Minister left, it degenerated into a no holds barred booze-up (verboten).
I don't think the Tories (hi BR!!!) have a clue how to defend this. Bone was genuinely awesome last night saying "no fine so it was a legal work event". Except there were fines. So it wasn't.
In the real world food and refreshment at work was legal back in November 20. So even if there is a bottle there that doesn't especially make it a party as there was no binary reference to alcohol in the law. So yes, I can see the idea they will try and say "it only became a piss-up after he left".
Except that it was quite clearly already a pissup. There were a lot of empty bottles on the table, a lot of glasses with wine stains in them. The photographic evidence demonstrates that they were already tying one on when Bonzo was photographed.
Anyway, I think the cover up is likely to prove as damning as the piss-up. Days of desperate spinning that Gray initiated the meeting before they confess they did - so a pack of lies. Then we hear why they lied - Bonzo had tried to force Gray to drop the report because "the police have investigated, its all out there".
Except it isn't all out there. Whether or not the Met have had these photos or not isn't the issue. People were fined for being on the piss and the PM was not. Yet here he is at this illegal piss-up on the piss with glass in hand. Gray (the "wrong'un" they tried to defame) says she passed all images to the police. Seems likely these were in the pack.
So the cover-up is clear: Delay the Gray report by triggering the police to do an "investigation" Gray forced to not publish her report The police cover the tracks by only fining junior staff not the top guys (aside from a token one to show its not a cover-up honest guv) The PM then tries to have Gray bin her report "There was no fine so it was legal" says pliant Tory MP hoping for a gong next week except there were fines so it was illegal.
No idea if this brings Bonzo down or not, but it does rather demonstrate the corruption in the Tory party and their friends in the establishment. Not that this is news, it just used to be done quietly with decorum and competence.
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".
She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.
It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.
I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.
I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.
Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
Your red line? Yes. The legal red line? No. Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.
Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
I remember Friday 13th Nov 2020 because that was the first day that Mrs Foxy was redeployed to covid ICU, prevaccination. She caught it a few days later.
The 2 events were six months apart, and in that 6 months a lot happened.
Were the rules identical on Nov 13th 2020 (before the first vaccination and during a steep rise in cases) and in April 21 (when 50% of the British population had at least one vaccination and cases were swiftly dropping)?
On indoor socialisation? Yes they pretty much were the same.
At the time in April 2021 I and others here were saying how outrageous it was that we were still under lockdown by law considering the vaccine rollout, but Keir Starmer in Parliament and others here were saying it was too dangerous for the law to be loosened and that we needed to keep lockdown in place.
So you don't get to play that card now I'm afraid. Had Keir been calling for faster rather than slower relaxation of lockdown, then there'd be no hypocrisy, but he didn't.
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Or Keir Starmer.
I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.
The hypocrisy is strong.
You have chosen a very typical hill to die on. "Alcohol" is not the pivot factor to anyone except you. It is being used of evidence of a party - a social event - but only you have decided that alcohol is the legal / illegal pivot.
Which bit of "meeting Gove at the pub" did you think was killer?
Its was an alternative to the photographs of Bonzo waving a pint at the cameras in a Hartlepool pub with Jill Mortimer. Either way, campaign events were legal. Which is why all parties did them. Not that you have disproved my basic premise that there was a meeting with Ravey Mikey Govey in the pub one lunchtime - photos of different sessions on different days with no activists shows us nothing.
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".
She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.
It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.
I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.
I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.
Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
Your red line? Yes. The legal red line? No. Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.
Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
I remember Friday 13th Nov 2020 because that was the first day that Mrs Foxy was redeployed to covid ICU, prevaccination. She caught it a few days later.
The 2 events were six months apart, and in that 6 months a lot happened.
Were the rules identical on Nov 13th 2020 (before the first vaccination and during a steep rise in cases) and in April 21 (when 50% of the British population had at least one vaccination and cases were swiftly dropping)?
The only question Tory MP's need to reflect on is how badly will they lose with Bozo at the next general election :
A toxic PM with a toxic cost of living crisis = a toxic result. Simple really. No change = no chance. Put your letters in and let's be done with this embarrassment of a Prime Minister.
Thank you.
I've given that a like, Jack, not because it was a particularly good post but because at your great age it is wonderful to see you can still operate a keyboard. Well done.
Keep going old codger.
Operate my own keyboard ?!?!?!
I have staff for such matters. I've appointed a - KO-TOTY- Keyboard Operator - Tipster Of The Year ... (Historical PB JackW /PtP )
Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).
I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.
What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
I won't buy anything over a certain price where the function relies on an app or server remaining active. It amazes me the amount of money people will spend on tech that can become redundant in a moment. I got burned by my beloved Pebble smart watch getting shut down when Fitbit bought them.
Very much so.
The home automation stuff is terrible for it, lots of startup companies who end up acquired and shut down. Avoid anything by Google too, for them everything is a beta product.
Samsung stuff is good, as is anything supporting Apple Home - they can be controlled locally with no internet connection required.
I like Sony tech too. Their apps are terrible but they have such a everything but the kitchen sink approach to design that there's usually plenty of offline ways to use them.
Yup, and that's the other unique Johnson gift that has propelled him up the greasy pole. His brilliance at turning up the heat on the frog.
Most people who survive a narrow scrape are more cautious as a result, at least for a bit.
The lesson Johnson takes from surviving something is "phwoar, next time I can sail even closer to the wind." Not a totally dumb strategy if you want to get right to the top.
What should really concern Conservative MPs is the likelihood that, if they tolerate this, Johnson will do something even worse next year.
His party is increasingly complicit.
A small example is Zaharia going out to defend No10's line, only to have it revealed a few hours later that he was defending lies.
Swallow such humiliations in silence, and you acknowledge that you're a willing minion of the liar. That is the situation for the vast majority of his party.
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Or Keir Starmer.
I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.
The hypocrisy is strong.
Who are you trying to convince? Yourself maybe? Here is a better approach.
Boris was not fined but others were for that same event. So perhaps the rozzers concluded that saying goodbye to colleagues at a leaving do counts as a legitimate work event (allowed) but that after the Prime Minister left, it degenerated into a no holds barred booze-up (verboten).
That's entirely possible and if that is the case then on your own logic the PM is not a liar since when he attended the event it was a lawful event and when people brought it up he could truthfully say that he thought all guidelines were followed as they were while he was present.
Either you accept that alcohol was allowed, in which case the PM is not a liar just because alcohol is present, or you believe that alcohol was verboten, in which case Keir Starmer is a liar and a hypocrite.
You can't have it both ways. Anyone who tries to is just revelling in their own hypocrisy.
Alcohol as part of a meal is clearly not the same as alcohol at a party or leaving do. Everyone can see that, including the government (prop, B Johnson) who early in the pandemic had us all debating whether a scotch egg constituted a meal. Alcohol per se is not the key factor but the wider event (campaign for Starmer, leaving do for Boris).
BR's "see, see, there was alcohol" line is so stupid that not even Desmond Swayne tried to use it as a defence line.
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".
She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.
It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.
I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.
I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.
Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
Your red line? Yes. The legal red line? No. Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.
Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
PS I'm not the only poster aggrieved about the taxes issue. I could name at least half a dozen other right-wing economically former Conservative voters who think the same on that, so its hardly unique even if it isn't sufficient on its own.
No you're not, it's true.
However, conflating that with the partying is rather disingenuous. Putting up taxes may piss you off but it doesn't break the law.
It's slightly disturbing that you don't seem to understand the difference.
The Metropolitan Police seem to think that him raising a glass of alcohol at work didn't break the law either, and I expect that Durham Police will find the same thing about his opposite number, so its you that doesn't understand the difference it seems.
Some people are saying its outrageous that the Metropolitan Police didn't fine him for this (and no doubt will find it outrageous if Durham Police do fine their guy) and are saying the Met got it wrong. The Met getting it wrong is certainly possible, they're far from infallible, but if that's the card you want to play then I will say they got it wrong issuing a fine for having cake at work at 1pm. Again, what's sauce for the goose . . . 🤷♂️
I said before the start of this that Boris should go and at the start of this if Boris broke the law its another reason he should go. Since the only fine is for cake, and I think the fine for cake was unreasonable, I don't think "partygate" is a reason for Boris to go. He should still go over taxes though.
Just Heard Philip Bone being interviewed on 5L this morning. He's a typical example of a Monkey in a blue Rosette.
They cut him off early because alledgedly his line was breaking up, though having listened to him before it doesn't make much difference to his lucidity. I wonder if he was drinking too much fresh orange juice?
Yup, and that's the other unique Johnson gift that has propelled him up the greasy pole. His brilliance at turning up the heat on the frog.
Most people who survive a narrow scrape are more cautious as a result, at least for a bit.
The lesson Johnson takes from surviving something is "phwoar, next time I can sail even closer to the wind." Not a totally dumb strategy if you want to get right to the top.
What should really concern Conservative MPs is the likelihood that, if they tolerate this, Johnson will do something even worse next year.
His party is increasingly complicit.
A small example is Zaharia going out to defend No10's line, only to have it revealed a few hours later that he was defending lies.
Swallow such humiliations in silence, and you acknowledge that you're a willing minion of the liar. That is the situation for the vast majority of his party.
This is the problem with charismatic populists in politics, it becomes all about them and their cult of personality. No room for coherence or competence, respect for others or the rules.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).
I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.
What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
Amazon is remarkable good at keeping their eco-systems going so I'm confused.
The only issue I can see is that you can no longer purchase Kindle books via the android app - but you can purchase the books on Amazon's website and they will be delivered as before.
Unless I (and the rest of the technical news world) is missing something.
Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).
I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.
What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
Amazon is remarkable good at keeping their eco-systems going so I'm confused.
The only issue I can see is that you can no longer purchase Kindle books via the android app - but you can purchase the books on Amazon's website and they will be delivered as before.
Unless I (and the rest of the technical news world) is missing something.
What is the kindle issue? I dont seem to have any problem buying via the android app.
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Or Keir Starmer.
I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.
The hypocrisy is strong.
Who are you trying to convince? Yourself maybe? Here is a better approach.
Boris was not fined but others were for that same event. So perhaps the rozzers concluded that saying goodbye to colleagues at a leaving do counts as a legitimate work event (allowed) but that after the Prime Minister left, it degenerated into a no holds barred booze-up (verboten).
That's entirely possible and if that is the case then on your own logic the PM is not a liar since when he attended the event it was a lawful event and when people brought it up he could truthfully say that he thought all guidelines were followed as they were while he was present.
Either you accept that alcohol was allowed, in which case the PM is not a liar just because alcohol is present, or you believe that alcohol was verboten, in which case Keir Starmer is a liar and a hypocrite.
You can't have it both ways. Anyone who tries to is just revelling in their own hypocrisy.
Alcohol as part of a meal is clearly not the same as alcohol at a party or leaving do. Everyone can see that, including the government (prop, B Johnson) who early in the pandemic had us all debating whether a scotch egg constituted a meal. Alcohol per se is not the key factor but the wider event (campaign for Starmer, leaving do for Boris).
The substantial meal thing was the media being typically asinine and stupid.
Substantial meal has been a legal term used in licensing laws since at least 1955, where the case of Solomon v Green determined that sandwiches or sausages on sticks are a substantial meal as per the law.
Another famous substantial meal example is that having pickles and beetroot with a meal makes it substantial.
A packet of crisps or packet of pork scratchings is a bar snack so not substantial. All this has been known in the licensing trade for most of a century already.
From the description of Boris's event there's a substantial meal present there too, so that test is met too I'm afraid.
Having a substantial meal while saying goodbye to a colleague while at work, how is that any different legally from having a substantial meal while campaigning while at work?
Curious expression, bottling it. If they have some bottle (ie are bold) it'd mean theyd act, but if they bottle it (ie have no boldness) it means they wont.
Typical British reverence for those born with a silver spoon and disdain for the working class showing in the expressions? Bottle is a positive thing so long as you dont have to manufacture it?
Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).
I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.
What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
Amazon is remarkable good at keeping their eco-systems going so I'm confused.
The only issue I can see is that you can no longer purchase Kindle books via the android app - but you can purchase the books on Amazon's website and they will be delivered as before.
Unless I (and the rest of the technical news world) is missing something.
What is the kindle issue? I dont seem to have any problem buying via the android app.
Google play have changed their payment terms and want a slice of the pie on sales - so Amazon are removing the ability to purchase within the android app.
Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).
I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.
What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
Amazon is remarkable good at keeping their eco-systems going so I'm confused.
The only issue I can see is that you can no longer purchase Kindle books via the android app - but you can purchase the books on Amazon's website and they will be delivered as before.
Unless I (and the rest of the technical news world) is missing something.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
What evidence can you provide that this doesn't resonate with the public? Activists of every party said that it was brought up time and again during local elections. It seems to me that Partygate is the opposite of a Westminster bubble. It outrages the public but Tory MPs have become jaded to it.
Having said that I do agree that the photo won't change anyone's opinion now.
Don't get me wrong, Boris should have resigned for misleading the HoC. Failing that he should have been resigned by Tory MPs. Neither happened, nor are they going to happen and that is a regrettable fall in the standards of public life.
But the frothing, the absolute nonsense that fills up thread after thread on here. Blimey. Its almost as if some had a different agenda and really wanted Boris punished for something else, an argument that was lost, perhaps.
The matter of the recess means that even if the Sue Gray report is bad for Johnson there’s not going to be time for letters to go in and then with the Queens celebrations coming up a lot of the momentum will be lost so once again Johnson is probably saved by other events .
Curious expression, bottling it. If they have some bottle (ie are bold) it'd mean theyd act, but if they bottle it (ie have no boldness) it means they wont.
Typical British reverence for those born with a silver spoon and disdain for the working class showing in the expressions? Bottle is a positive thing so long as you dont have to manufacture it?
"Bottle and Glass" = Cockney rhyming slang for arse.
Hence losing your bottle means losing control of your arse, and soiling yourself.
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".
She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.
It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.
I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.
I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.
Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
Your red line? Yes. The legal red line? No. Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.
Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
PS I'm not the only poster aggrieved about the taxes issue. I could name at least half a dozen other right-wing economically former Conservative voters who think the same on that, so its hardly unique even if it isn't sufficient on its own.
No you're not, it's true.
However, conflating that with the partying is rather disingenuous. Putting up taxes may piss you off but it doesn't break the law.
It's slightly disturbing that you don't seem to understand the difference.
The Metropolitan Police seem to think that him raising a glass of alcohol at work didn't break the law either, and I expect that Durham Police will find the same thing about his opposite number, so its you that doesn't understand the difference it seems.
Some people are saying its outrageous that the Metropolitan Police didn't fine him for this (and no doubt will find it outrageous if Durham Police do fine their guy) and are saying the Met got it wrong. The Met getting it wrong is certainly possible, they're far from infallible, but if that's the card you want to play then I will say they got it wrong issuing a fine for having cake at work at 1pm. Again, what's sauce for the goose . . . 🤷♂️
I said before the start of this that Boris should go and at the start of this if Boris broke the law its another reason he should go. Since the only fine is for cake, and I think the fine for cake was unreasonable, I don't think "partygate" is a reason for Boris to go. He should still go over taxes though.
You're entitled to your view that mistakes are possible and that they could be in either direction, but your post doesn't smooth out the more troubling wrinkle, something that is on the minds of some people who look into this. And that is the possibility that the police haven't made an innocent mistake, but got leaned on to come up with the "right" answer.
I have no evidence of that, of course. So it's not a conclusion I'm happy to stand by. But it's a possibility I'm willing to entertain. How many of us would put Boris on the "but he would never do such a thing!" list? Not me.
I certainly find the possibility the Police haven't investigated this in good faith to be plausible.
Based on the Met's handling of the "Plebgate" "scandal" there's good reason to question the Met's integrity here and that cuts both ways again and can be used as an example to say that the cake fine was issued in bad faith.
I see the paper has Kissinger sticking his ear in. I seem to recall him around the time of Crimea as a big advocate of how Ukraine must always remain neutral as part of Russia's sphere of influence, ie not neutral at all.
That is, someone who doesnt believe other nations should be independent, they must do what a powerful neighbour tells them and pretend that's their choice.
Might well come down to a terrible choice of conceding territory, but that should be seen for what it would be - losing a war of conquest and others not willing or able to help, not some geopolitical choice to sit between superpowers.
Its almost as if some had a different agenda and really wanted Boris punished for something else, an argument that was lost, perhaps.
Well, now that you mention it, if BoZo can't be truthful about a party where he is pictured raising a toast, what else might he have been less than honest about in the past?
Where is the evidence for this? The Conservatives are still polling 33 to 35% and there is no evidence whatsoever now Sunak, Raab, Patel, Hunt, Rees Mogg, Wallace etc would poll much better v Starmer than Johnson is.
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
I found 16 photos of my cats.
But, to be honest, that’s what my phone photos look like most months, lockdown or not.
The Kindle thing isn't effective now, but from what I read (just after 6am so chance I misread it) from around August this year with the oldest Kindle e-readers buying in-store via the device will not be possible.
They'll still function, so you can buy via a computer and transfer the file, as I understand it.
If only Johnson had resigned November/december last year, it would have been dead news by Christmas. That is where a combination of stupidity and arrogance can get you!
Well, the trade-off at present is that BJ is having an embarrassing time but continuing to be PM. I think he regards that as a perfectly acceptable outcome.
Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).
I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.
What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
Amazon is remarkable good at keeping their eco-systems going so I'm confused.
The only issue I can see is that you can no longer purchase Kindle books via the android app - but you can purchase the books on Amazon's website and they will be delivered as before.
Unless I (and the rest of the technical news world) is missing something.
They’re deprecating older Kindle devices.
again only the old 2g and 3g internet connected ones (because the 2g / 3g networks have gone).
As I understand this, Amazon is remarkably good at keeping devices going and have decent upgrade offers if things are being killed off.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
If only Johnson had resigned November/december last year, it would have been dead news by Christmas. That is where a combination of stupidity and arrogance can get you!
Well, the trade-off at present is that BJ is having an embarrassing time but continuing to be PM. I think he regards that as a perfectly acceptable outcome.
I suspect that it suits Labour too. The upcoming U turn on a windfall tax will be a further embarassment. Big Dog being put down would also suit.
Good tactic to let the papers and social media do the work, and to concentrate on the Tories economic failures, particularly the cost of living crisis.
Don't you just hate those people who have always been right about Boris being a wrong 'un?
I am curious what those still desperate to prop up the tower of bullshit surrounding BoZo think will happen when the edifice eventually crumbles and falls around them?
Do they think only other people will be covered..?
Curious expression, bottling it. If they have some bottle (ie are bold) it'd mean theyd act, but if they bottle it (ie have no boldness) it means they wont.
Typical British reverence for those born with a silver spoon and disdain for the working class showing in the expressions? Bottle is a positive thing so long as you dont have to manufacture it?
"Bottle and Glass" = Cockney rhyming slang for arse.
Hence losing your bottle means losing control of your arse, and soiling yourself.
Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).
I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.
What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
Amazon is remarkable good at keeping their eco-systems going so I'm confused.
The only issue I can see is that you can no longer purchase Kindle books via the android app - but you can purchase the books on Amazon's website and they will be delivered as before.
Unless I (and the rest of the technical news world) is missing something.
They’re deprecating older Kindle devices.
again only the old 2g and 3g internet connected ones (because the 2g / 3g networks have gone).
As I understand this, Amazon is remarkably good at keeping devices going and have decent upgrade offers if things are being killed off.
Older devices should still work by Wifi shouldn't they?
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
They are desperate to get rid of Johnson as the left were desperate to get rid of Thatcher in 1990 and the right desperately wanted to get rid of Blair in 2007. However the reason was not what was really suggested, the reason they really wanted to get rid of them was because they were winners and indeed landslide general election winners.
Once rid of Thatcher Labour was able to win 3 out of 4 of the following general elections. Once rid of Blair the Conservatives were able to win all 4 of the following general elections too.
Tories should be wary of advice from OGH and non Tories to get rid of Boris, their most successful general election winner since Thatcher. They do not have the longterm interests of the Conservative party in mind
I believe that the PM has misled the HoC’s from the despatch box. That is a resignation issue. I have made my own position clear. It is now a matter for my Conservative parliamentary colleagues to decide whether or not to instigate a vote of no confidence. https://twitter.com/SirRogerGale/status/1529003927957606400
I see the paper has Kissinger sticking his ear in. I seem to recall him around the time of Crimea as a big advocate of how Ukraine must always remain neutral as part of Russia's sphere of influence, ie not neutral at all.
That is, someone who doesnt believe other nations should be independent, they must do what a powerful neighbour tells them and pretend that's their choice.
Might well come down to a terrible choice of conceding territory, but that should be seen for what it would be - losing a war of conquest and others not willing or able to help, not some geopolitical choice to sit between superpowers.
98 year old probable war criminal should keep his peace.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
They are desperate to get rid of Johnson as the left were desperate to get rid of Thatcher in 1990 and the right desperately wanted to get rid of Blair in 2007. However the reason was not what was really suggested, the reason they really wanted to get rid of them was because they were winners and indeed landslide general election winners.
Once rid of Thatcher Labour was able to win 3 out of 4 of the following general elections. Once rid of Blair the Conservatives were able to win all 4 of the following general elections too.
Tories should be wary of advice from OGH and non Tories to get rid of Boris, their most successful general election winner since Thatcher. They do not have the longterm interests of the Conservative party in mind
The Thatcher example is an odd one. I mean, that did work out in the interests of the party didnt it?
Curious expression, bottling it. If they have some bottle (ie are bold) it'd mean theyd act, but if they bottle it (ie have no boldness) it means they wont.
Typical British reverence for those born with a silver spoon and disdain for the working class showing in the expressions? Bottle is a positive thing so long as you dont have to manufacture it?
"Bottle and Glass" = Cockney rhyming slang for arse.
Hence losing your bottle means losing control of your arse, and soiling yourself.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
Yes I largely agree but. It's the inability (or deliberate strategy) to spin it out which makes it potent. Anyone enraged is already enraged yes. But they keep being enraged on a seemingly weekly basis. Ensuring those who have switched over this don't go back.
The thread header tells Tory MPs what they should do, saying there's little doubt that their seats would be safer without BJ at the helm. As if those MPs aren't the best judge of that. It's almost as if the writer is talking his book.
I believe that the PM has misled the HoC’s from the despatch box. That is a resignation issue. I have made my own position clear. It is now a matter for my Conservative parliamentary colleagues to decide whether or not to instigate a vote of no confidence. https://twitter.com/SirRogerGale/status/1529003927957606400
Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).
I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.
What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
Amazon is remarkable good at keeping their eco-systems going so I'm confused.
The only issue I can see is that you can no longer purchase Kindle books via the android app - but you can purchase the books on Amazon's website and they will be delivered as before.
Unless I (and the rest of the technical news world) is missing something.
They’re deprecating older Kindle devices.
again only the old 2g and 3g internet connected ones (because the 2g / 3g networks have gone).
As I understand this, Amazon is remarkably good at keeping devices going and have decent upgrade offers if things are being killed off.
Older devices should still work by Wifi shouldn't they?
Yep - but given that the 2g/3g were premium products at a higher price Amazon are doing their usual customer is right give them a discount / freebie / benefit of the doubt logic.
As I said before I'm struggling to find any reference to what Mr MorrisDancer is talking about.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
They are desperate to get rid of Johnson as the left were desperate to get rid of Thatcher in 1990 and the right desperately wanted to get rid of Blair in 2007. However the reason was not what was really suggested, the reason they really wanted to get rid of them was because they were winners and indeed landslide general election winners.
Once rid of Thatcher Labour was able to win 3 out of 4 of the following general elections. Once rid of Blair the Conservatives were able to win all 4 of the following general elections too.
Tories should be wary of advice from OGH and non Tories to get rid of Boris, their most successful general election winner since Thatcher. They do not have the longterm interests of the Conservative party in mind
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The thread header tells Tory MPs what they should do, saying there's little doubt that their seats would be safer without BJ at the helm. As if those MPs aren't the best judge of that. It's almost as if the writer is talking his book.
He might well be, but the idea MPs are any better at judging how safe their seats are is ridiculous. There's countless examples of MPs surprised to lose or win their seats, or parties surprised at a shellacking.
We tend to think whatever they might say that behind the scenes they know the score, but often they are utterly clueless.
Curious expression, bottling it. If they have some bottle (ie are bold) it'd mean theyd act, but if they bottle it (ie have no boldness) it means they wont.
Typical British reverence for those born with a silver spoon and disdain for the working class showing in the expressions? Bottle is a positive thing so long as you dont have to manufacture it?
"Bottle and Glass" = Cockney rhyming slang for arse.
Hence losing your bottle means losing control of your arse, and soiling yourself.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
Yes I largely agree but. It's the inability (or deliberate strategy) to spin it out which makes it potent. Anyone enraged is already enraged yes. But they keep being enraged on a seemingly weekly basis. Ensuring those who have switched over this don't go back.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
That's as maybe, but there is a tipping point coming, and that's the publication of Gray. Fence sitters like the hon tub of lard for West Devon have shielded behind that, and have to commit once it is published. That is why Johnson tried to kill it btw, not because it is going to say anything new but because if it never saw the light of day the hon tub would have sat there till the last syllable of recorded time intoning that we will never know. those who mean business like, I am guessing, the hon memb for NuL have always had it inked in as the date to act.
why is it discreditable to hate Johnson for being a lazy, manipulative, treacherous liar btw? I never gave much of a toss about brexit; I have hated him since he dropped NZR in it as Foreign Sec, and for pretty much every single thing he has done since then.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
God, you and Brexit. Just let it go. Boris should go for numerous reasons that are post Brexit. Nobody mentions it anymore except you in the context of getting rid of Boris. Literally nobody at all.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
They are desperate to get rid of Johnson as the left were desperate to get rid of Thatcher in 1990 and the right desperately wanted to get rid of Blair in 2007. However the reason was not what was really suggested, the reason they really wanted to get rid of them was because they were winners and indeed landslide general election winners.
Once rid of Thatcher Labour was able to win 3 out of 4 of the following general elections. Once rid of Blair the Conservatives were able to win all 4 of the following general elections too.
Tories should be wary of advice from OGH and non Tories to get rid of Boris, their most successful general election winner since Thatcher. They do not have the longterm interests of the Conservative party in mind
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
Enough people have switched. That's why, on current polling, the Conservatives look set to lose.
It was your question, framed your way, that I answered. Yes, people do give a fuck. The evidence is pretty clear from by-elections to local elections. Sorry.
Far more has happened in the past year than just photos of Keir and Boris coming out with booze.
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Its the whole drinking at work culture which surprises me.
I've not seen any alcohol drunk at my workplace for over 20 years or any work sponsored pub lunches for over 10 years.
I thought this was also the general trend throughout the country.
I do like how some of those MPs who did speak out about Boris were derided by loyalists as simply trying to save their seats, eg our departed colleague TissuePrice. Just being self interested.
But some loyalists simultaneously make the argument that people should get behind Boris as an election winner who could therefore save their seats.
As for Boris, @Cyclefree's post outlined clearly a set of circumstances that legitimised Boris' presence at that leaving do. The $64,000 question then becomes what status does a "leaving do" have - party or work event. The fact that someone has apparently been fined for being at it suggests the former. Which means that under Boris' auspices a party was organised at No.10.
So Boris either says he was unaware that a party was being organised (in which case why is he there) or that he was aware and in his view a leaving do was not a party.
As far as lawyers getting stuck into issues of note, it is surely either Heard/Depp or Partygate.
The thread header tells Tory MPs what they should do, saying there's little doubt that their seats would be safer without BJ at the helm. As if those MPs aren't the best judge of that. It's almost as if the writer is talking his book.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
God, you and Brexit. Just let it go. Boris should go for numerous reasons that are post Brexit. Nobody mentions it anymore except you in the context of getting rid of Boris. Literally nobody at all.
It is absurd to pretend that Boris-hatred isn’t driven, largely (but not always) by Brexit
And Boris-hatred is sustaining this tedious half-arsed scandal about booze-ups during lockdown, which made me angry for a bit in early 2022, but about which I now just can’t be arsed, as they say, especially as Labour have been just as devious and hypocritical
The PM is a lying chancer possibly undermining democracy, Starmer is a boring liar who wanted to cancel democracy with a 2nd referendum
In 2024 we will have to choose between these two unsavoury characters. Hey ho
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
They are desperate to get rid of Johnson as the left were desperate to get rid of Thatcher in 1990 and the right desperately wanted to get rid of Blair in 2007. However the reason was not what was really suggested, the reason they really wanted to get rid of them was because they were winners and indeed landslide general election winners.
Once rid of Thatcher Labour was able to win 3 out of 4 of the following general elections. Once rid of Blair the Conservatives were able to win all 4 of the following general elections too.
Tories should be wary of advice from OGH and non Tories to get rid of Boris, their most successful general election winner since Thatcher. They do not have the longterm interests of the Conservative party in mind
The Thatcher example is an odd one. I mean, that did work out in the interests of the party didnt it?
A scraped win in 1992 then 3 consecutive general election defeats, 2 by landslides
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
God, you and Brexit. Just let it go. Boris should go for numerous reasons that are post Brexit. Nobody mentions it anymore except you in the context of getting rid of Boris. Literally nobody at all.
It is absurd to pretend that Boris-hatred isn’t driven, largely (but not always) by Brexit
And Boris-hatred is sustaining this tedious half-arsed scandal about booze-ups during lockdown, which made me angry for a bit in early 2022, but about which I now just can’t be arsed, as they say, especially as Labour have been just as devious and hypocritical
The PM is a lying chancer possibly undermining democracy, Starmer is a boring liar who wanted to cancel democracy with a 2nd referendum
In 2024 we will have to choose between these two unsavoury characters. Hey ho
Well obviously all the delaying tactics and spin worked on you then!
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Its the whole drinking at work culture which surprises me.
I've not seen any alcohol drunk at my workplace for over 20 years or any work sponsored pub lunches for over 10 years.
I thought this was also the general trend throughout the country.
But not it seems in Downing Street.
Considering how often the bars come up in conversations about politics, I'm surprised at your surprise.
Anyway, I've often had alcohol at work, which makes me struggle to get outraged at either Keir or Boris having the same. I feel sorry that some people are so dry, or so lacking in self-control, that they think alcohol and work can't ever mix.
Unless you're driving of course, that's a different matter. Alcohol and driving don't mix, alcohol and work absolutely can.
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".
She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.
It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.
I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.
I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.
Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
Your red line? Yes. The legal red line? No. Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.
Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
PS I'm not the only poster aggrieved about the taxes issue. I could name at least half a dozen other right-wing economically former Conservative voters who think the same on that, so its hardly unique even if it isn't sufficient on its own.
No you're not, it's true.
However, conflating that with the partying is rather disingenuous. Putting up taxes may piss you off but it doesn't break the law.
It's slightly disturbing that you don't seem to understand the difference.
The Metropolitan Police seem to think that him raising a glass of alcohol at work didn't break the law either, and I expect that Durham Police will find the same thing about his opposite number, so its you that doesn't understand the difference it seems.
Some people are saying its outrageous that the Metropolitan Police didn't fine him for this (and no doubt will find it outrageous if Durham Police do fine their guy) and are saying the Met got it wrong. The Met getting it wrong is certainly possible, they're far from infallible, but if that's the card you want to play then I will say they got it wrong issuing a fine for having cake at work at 1pm. Again, what's sauce for the goose . . . 🤷♂️
I said before the start of this that Boris should go and at the start of this if Boris broke the law its another reason he should go. Since the only fine is for cake, and I think the fine for cake was unreasonable, I don't think "partygate" is a reason for Boris to go. He should still go over taxes though.
The Met issued fines to people at this event. So the event was not legal. So why are you repeating the Peter Bone line that it was legal? You aren't dumb like Peter Bone...
Tottenham Court Road to Paddington in FIVE minutes
Farringdon to Canary Wharf: ten minutes
Heathrow to anywhere in central London: thirty minutes, 44 minutes to Canary Wharf
Game-changer for a lot of places along the line
Do people still ride the tube post Covid?
They do. It is recovering reasonably quickly, it is back up to 73% of what it was. Data suggests central London pubs, theatres, restaurants, etc, are now BUSIER than they were pre-pandemic
One city that seems to have a more enduring problem is, unexpectedly, New York. There restaurants are still only at 40% of their pre-Covid business. And the subway has been abandoned to drug addicts and homeless people, and those, of course, who HAVE to take it
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
They are desperate to get rid of Johnson as the left were desperate to get rid of Thatcher in 1990 and the right desperately wanted to get rid of Blair in 2007. However the reason was not what was really suggested, the reason they really wanted to get rid of them was because they were winners and indeed landslide general election winners.
Once rid of Thatcher Labour was able to win 3 out of 4 of the following general elections. Once rid of Blair the Conservatives were able to win all 4 of the following general elections too.
Tories should be wary of advice from OGH and non Tories to get rid of Boris, their most successful general election winner since Thatcher. They do not have the longterm interests of the Conservative party in mind
The Thatcher example is an odd one. I mean, that did work out in the interests of the party didnt it?
A scraped win in 1992 then 3 consecutive general election defeats, 2 by landslides
So you think the Thatcher campaign in 1990 should have been - "With Thatcher as Conservative leader we will lose the next general election but Labour will be so bad in government that the Conservatives will then win the next three. Short term pain for long term gain."
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
God, you and Brexit. Just let it go. Boris should go for numerous reasons that are post Brexit. Nobody mentions it anymore except you in the context of getting rid of Boris. Literally nobody at all.
It is absurd to pretend that Boris-hatred isn’t driven, largely (but not always) by Brexit
And Boris-hatred is sustaining this tedious half-arsed scandal about booze-ups during lockdown, which made me angry for a bit in early 2022, but about which I now just can’t be arsed, as they say, especially as Labour have been just as devious and hypocritical
The PM is a lying chancer possibly undermining democracy, Starmer is a boring liar who wanted to cancel democracy with a 2nd referendum
In 2024 we will have to choose between these two unsavoury characters. Hey ho
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
Bones of four hundred councillors lie strewn about its lair. Yes. People care.
Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
God, you and Brexit. Just let it go. Boris should go for numerous reasons that are post Brexit. Nobody mentions it anymore except you in the context of getting rid of Boris. Literally nobody at all.
It is absurd to pretend that Boris-hatred isn’t driven, largely (but not always) by Brexit
And Boris-hatred is sustaining this tedious half-arsed scandal about booze-ups during lockdown, which made me angry for a bit in early 2022, but about which I now just can’t be arsed, as they say, especially as Labour have been just as devious and hypocritical
The PM is a lying chancer possibly undermining democracy, Starmer is a boring liar who wanted to cancel democracy with a 2nd referendum
In 2024 we will have to choose between these two unsavoury characters. Hey ho
You’re the one who seems to be bringing Brexit into everything. Johnson is a pathological liar and not fit for any office of state .
There are other Tory MPs who backed Brexit who wouldn’t have shamed their office in that manner . I can totally disagree with a politicians view of the world but still think they’d be okay as PM and not embarrass the UK.
I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322
I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
Its the whole drinking at work culture which surprises me.
I've not seen any alcohol drunk at my workplace for over 20 years or any work sponsored pub lunches for over 10 years.
I thought this was also the general trend throughout the country.
But not it seems in Downing Street.
Considering how often the bars come up in conversations about politics, I'm surprised at your surprise.
Anyway, I've often had alcohol at work, which makes me struggle to get outraged at either Keir or Boris having the same. I feel sorry that some people are so dry, or so lacking in self-control, that they think alcohol and work can't ever mix.
Unless you're driving of course, that's a different matter. Alcohol and driving don't mix, alcohol and work absolutely can.
Teaching? Surgery? I can think of plenty of others.
Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.” https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617
The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".
She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.
It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.
I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.
I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.
Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
Your red line? Yes. The legal red line? No. Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.
Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
PS I'm not the only poster aggrieved about the taxes issue. I could name at least half a dozen other right-wing economically former Conservative voters who think the same on that, so its hardly unique even if it isn't sufficient on its own.
No you're not, it's true.
However, conflating that with the partying is rather disingenuous. Putting up taxes may piss you off but it doesn't break the law.
It's slightly disturbing that you don't seem to understand the difference.
The Metropolitan Police seem to think that him raising a glass of alcohol at work didn't break the law either, and I expect that Durham Police will find the same thing about his opposite number, so its you that doesn't understand the difference it seems.
Some people are saying its outrageous that the Metropolitan Police didn't fine him for this (and no doubt will find it outrageous if Durham Police do fine their guy) and are saying the Met got it wrong. The Met getting it wrong is certainly possible, they're far from infallible, but if that's the card you want to play then I will say they got it wrong issuing a fine for having cake at work at 1pm. Again, what's sauce for the goose . . . 🤷♂️
I said before the start of this that Boris should go and at the start of this if Boris broke the law its another reason he should go. Since the only fine is for cake, and I think the fine for cake was unreasonable, I don't think "partygate" is a reason for Boris to go. He should still go over taxes though.
The Met issued fines to people at this event. So the event was not legal. So why are you repeating the Peter Bone line that it was legal? You aren't dumb like Peter Bone...
If someone breaks the law at an event, that does not make the event illegal, it means the Police judged the actions of whoever got fined were illegal.
If you and thousands of others go to a concert, but one person who goes to the concert is caught taking or supply drugs by the Police and that individual is fined, then does that make the concert itself an illegal event? No, don't be ridiculous.
Unless we get told why the person who got fined was fined, we don't know what they were fined for, so all we know for certain is the Police believe that they broke the law in some way, not that the event itself was unlawful.
Head of UN World Food Programme confirms talks are underway to secure sea and rail corridors for grain exports out of Ukraine, as Harpoon anti-ship missiles are on their way from Denmark.
How much use will sea corridors be unless somebody provides Ukraine with mine sweeping vessels and equipment?
It sounds like the plan is for an international naval fleet, flying UN flags, sweeping the area and keeping the corridor open, backed by land-based anti-ship weapons in Odesa. It sounds plausible, but no doubt the Russians will see it as provocative. The alternative is a global grain shortage this summer.
It would sound plausible if anybody in the Biden administration had said it. It doesn't sound plausible when it's just the Lithuanian Foreign Minister and Fizzy Lizzy saying it.
Comments
The 2 events were six months apart, and in that 6 months a lot happened.
Were the rules identical on Nov 13th 2020 (before the first vaccination and during a steep rise in cases) and in April 21 (when 50% of the British population had at least one vaccination and cases were swiftly dropping)?
The problem in politics and why all politicians eventually fail, a rule to which Boris will be no exception and even Thatcher was no exception, is that eventually those in charge piss off enough people and those people add up over time in a series of breaches of trust rather than one individual mega-event pissing off everyone.
For me, that breach was taxes. For others that breach might be something else. All political leaders eventually do this, eventually there are enough aggrieved backbenchers or voters willing to support a change.
Hell there's a phrase for this that is apposite in real life for this effect: The straw that broke the camel's back.
PS I'm not the only poster aggrieved about the taxes issue. I could name at least half a dozen other right-wing economically former Conservative voters who think the same on that, so its hardly unique even if it isn't sufficient on its own.
Most people who survive a narrow scrape are more cautious as a result, at least for a bit.
The lesson Johnson takes from surviving something is "phwoar, next time I can sail even closer to the wind." Not a totally dumb strategy if you want to get right to the top.
What should really concern Conservative MPs is the likelihood that, if they tolerate this, Johnson will do something even worse next year.
I have staff for such matters. I've appointed a - KO-TOTY- Keyboard Operator - Tipster Of The Year ...
However, conflating that with the partying is rather disingenuous. Putting up taxes may piss you off but it doesn't break the law.
It's slightly disturbing that you don't seem to understand the difference.
In the real world food and refreshment at work was legal back in November 20. So even if there is a bottle there that doesn't especially make it a party as there was no binary reference to alcohol in the law. So yes, I can see the idea they will try and say "it only became a piss-up after he left".
Except that it was quite clearly already a pissup. There were a lot of empty bottles on the table, a lot of glasses with wine stains in them. The photographic evidence demonstrates that they were already tying one on when Bonzo was photographed.
Anyway, I think the cover up is likely to prove as damning as the piss-up. Days of desperate spinning that Gray initiated the meeting before they confess they did - so a pack of lies. Then we hear why they lied - Bonzo had tried to force Gray to drop the report because "the police have investigated, its all out there".
Except it isn't all out there. Whether or not the Met have had these photos or not isn't the issue. People were fined for being on the piss and the PM was not. Yet here he is at this illegal piss-up on the piss with glass in hand. Gray (the "wrong'un" they tried to defame) says she passed all images to the police. Seems likely these were in the pack.
So the cover-up is clear:
Delay the Gray report by triggering the police to do an "investigation"
Gray forced to not publish her report
The police cover the tracks by only fining junior staff not the top guys (aside from a token one to show its not a cover-up honest guv)
The PM then tries to have Gray bin her report
"There was no fine so it was legal" says pliant Tory MP hoping for a gong next week except there were fines so it was illegal.
No idea if this brings Bonzo down or not, but it does rather demonstrate the corruption in the Tory party and their friends in the establishment. Not that this is news, it just used to be done quietly with decorum and competence.
At the time in April 2021 I and others here were saying how outrageous it was that we were still under lockdown by law considering the vaccine rollout, but Keir Starmer in Parliament and others here were saying it was too dangerous for the law to be loosened and that we needed to keep lockdown in place.
So you don't get to play that card now I'm afraid. Had Keir been calling for faster rather than slower relaxation of lockdown, then there'd be no hypocrisy, but he didn't.
I still don't expect the Conservatives to do what they should. So the defeat at the General Election will be heavier.
Good to hear from you Jack.
A small example is Zaharia going out to defend No10's line, only to have it revealed a few hours later that he was defending lies.
Swallow such humiliations in silence, and you acknowledge that you're a willing minion of the liar.
That is the situation for the vast majority of his party.
Some people are saying its outrageous that the Metropolitan Police didn't fine him for this (and no doubt will find it outrageous if Durham Police do fine their guy) and are saying the Met got it wrong. The Met getting it wrong is certainly possible, they're far from infallible, but if that's the card you want to play then I will say they got it wrong issuing a fine for having cake at work at 1pm. Again, what's sauce for the goose . . . 🤷♂️
I said before the start of this that Boris should go and at the start of this if Boris broke the law its another reason he should go. Since the only fine is for cake, and I think the fine for cake was unreasonable, I don't think "partygate" is a reason for Boris to go. He should still go over taxes though.
They cut him off early because alledgedly his line was breaking up, though having listened to him before it doesn't make much difference to his lucidity. I wonder if he was drinking too much fresh orange juice?
Corbynists were the same.
I’m not belittling the “crime”, though as scandals go we’ve all seen far worse. And I am sure SW1 bubble-types can still get excited by this, but for the public the flogged horse is not just dead it is entombed
And the fact there is a very similar photo of Starmer, bottle raised, clearly breaking the rules (as Boris broke the rules) makes it all a wash
Boris AND Starmer will survive. Either could be PM in 24
The only issue I can see is that you can no longer purchase Kindle books via the android app - but you can purchase the books on Amazon's website and they will be delivered as before.
Unless I (and the rest of the technical news world) is missing something.
Substantial meal has been a legal term used in licensing laws since at least 1955, where the case of Solomon v Green determined that sandwiches or sausages on sticks are a substantial meal as per the law.
Another famous substantial meal example is that having pickles and beetroot with a meal makes it substantial.
A packet of crisps or packet of pork scratchings is a bar snack so not substantial. All this has been known in the licensing trade for most of a century already.
From the description of Boris's event there's a substantial meal present there too, so that test is met too I'm afraid.
Having a substantial meal while saying goodbye to a colleague while at work, how is that any different legally from having a substantial meal while campaigning while at work?
Typical British reverence for those born with a silver spoon and disdain for the working class showing in the expressions? Bottle is a positive thing so long as you dont have to manufacture it?
Google play have changed their payment terms and want a slice of the pie on sales - so Amazon are removing the ability to purchase within the android app.
Having said that I do agree that the photo won't change anyone's opinion now.
But the frothing, the absolute nonsense that fills up thread after thread on here. Blimey. Its almost as if some had a different agenda and really wanted Boris punished for something else, an argument that was lost, perhaps.
Hence losing your bottle means losing control of your arse, and soiling yourself.
Based on the Met's handling of the "Plebgate" "scandal" there's good reason to question the Met's integrity here and that cuts both ways again and can be used as an example to say that the cake fine was issued in bad faith.
That is, someone who doesnt believe other nations should be independent, they must do what a powerful neighbour tells them and pretend that's their choice.
Might well come down to a terrible choice of conceding territory, but that should be seen for what it would be - losing a war of conquest and others not willing or able to help, not some geopolitical choice to sit between superpowers.
Once you start tugging that thread...
But, to be honest, that’s what my phone photos look like most months, lockdown or not.
They'll still function, so you can buy via a computer and transfer the file, as I understand it.
As I understand this, Amazon is remarkably good at keeping devices going and have decent upgrade offers if things are being killed off.
The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it
1. The PM orchestrated the event
2. He encouraged people to fill their glasses after a tense day
3. He gave a speech and chatted to everyone for 20mins or so
No10 dispute all this.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1528993802387656709
Shame nothing puts off the partisan voters anymore.
Good tactic to let the papers and social media do the work, and to concentrate on the Tories economic failures, particularly the cost of living crisis.
I am curious what those still desperate to prop up the tower of bullshit surrounding BoZo think will happen when the edifice eventually crumbles and falls around them?
Do they think only other people will be covered..?
Once rid of Thatcher Labour was able to win 3 out of 4 of the following general elections. Once rid of Blair the Conservatives were able to win all 4 of the following general elections too.
Tories should be wary of advice from OGH and non Tories to get rid of Boris, their most successful general election winner since Thatcher. They do not have the longterm interests of the Conservative party in mind
https://twitter.com/SirRogerGale/status/1529003927957606400
It's the inability (or deliberate strategy) to spin it out which makes it potent.
Anyone enraged is already enraged yes.
But they keep being enraged on a seemingly weekly basis.
Ensuring those who have switched over this don't go back.
As I said before I'm struggling to find any reference to what Mr MorrisDancer is talking about.
The toast is still stuck in the toaster. While a bunch of people stand round with butter knifes, daring each other to stick one in the mechanism.
We tend to think whatever they might say that behind the scenes they know the score, but often they are utterly clueless.
Grant Shapps has bizarrely claimed Boris Johnson was “clearly not partying” when he raised fizz at a No10 party.
Shapps says PM was in fact mourning his mum...despite the fact Charlotte Johnson Wahl died “suddenly” 10 months after the party happened
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/grant-shapps-claims-not-partying-27047663
why is it discreditable to hate Johnson for being a lazy, manipulative, treacherous liar btw? I never gave much of a toss about brexit; I have hated him since he dropped NZR in it as Foreign Sec, and for pretty much every single thing he has done since then.
Despite being miles behind in the polls, many (me included), said wait for a campaign and he will do better.
In fact he did a lot worse the second time. And lost in a landslide.
Why is Boris Johnson any different? Lightning never strikes twice.
Tottenham Court Road to Paddington in FIVE minutes
Farringdon to Canary Wharf: ten minutes
Heathrow to anywhere in central London: thirty minutes, 44 minutes to Canary Wharf
Game-changer for a lot of places along the line
I've not seen any alcohol drunk at my workplace for over 20 years or any work sponsored pub lunches for over 10 years.
I thought this was also the general trend throughout the country.
But not it seems in Downing Street.
What they need to do is stick it off, remove the plug from the wall, and trigger the release mechanism as per manual. The rational approach.
But some loyalists simultaneously make the argument that people should get behind Boris as an election winner who could therefore save their seats.
So Boris either says he was unaware that a party was being organised (in which case why is he there) or that he was aware and in his view a leaving do was not a party.
As far as lawyers getting stuck into issues of note, it is surely either Heard/Depp or Partygate.
It is absurd to pretend that Boris-hatred isn’t driven, largely (but not always) by Brexit
And Boris-hatred is sustaining this tedious half-arsed scandal about booze-ups during lockdown, which made me angry for a bit in early 2022, but about which I now just can’t be arsed, as they say, especially as Labour have been just as devious and hypocritical
The PM is a lying chancer possibly undermining democracy, Starmer is a boring liar who wanted to cancel democracy with a 2nd referendum
In 2024 we will have to choose between these two unsavoury characters. Hey ho
Few politicians maintain that level of success for such a long period.
But things do come to an end sooner or later.
The BoZo fanbois are unhinged
Anyway, I've often had alcohol at work, which makes me struggle to get outraged at either Keir or Boris having the same. I feel sorry that some people are so dry, or so lacking in self-control, that they think alcohol and work can't ever mix.
Unless you're driving of course, that's a different matter. Alcohol and driving don't mix, alcohol and work absolutely can.
They do. It is recovering reasonably quickly, it is back up to 73% of what it was. Data suggests central London pubs, theatres, restaurants, etc, are now BUSIER than they were pre-pandemic
One city that seems to have a more enduring problem is, unexpectedly, New York. There restaurants are still only at 40% of their pre-Covid business. And the subway has been abandoned to drug addicts and homeless people, and those, of course, who HAVE to take it
https://www.ft.com/content/eb89fe38-9c0c-449d-aeaf-c36258029f74
London has its post-pandemic problems, but it is doing OK
There are other Tory MPs who backed Brexit who wouldn’t have shamed their office in that manner . I can totally disagree with a politicians view of the world but still think they’d be okay as PM and not embarrass the UK.
I can think of plenty of others.
If you and thousands of others go to a concert, but one person who goes to the concert is caught taking or supply drugs by the Police and that individual is fined, then does that make the concert itself an illegal event? No, don't be ridiculous.
Unless we get told why the person who got fined was fined, we don't know what they were fined for, so all we know for certain is the Police believe that they broke the law in some way, not that the event itself was unlawful.