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Tory MPs shouldn’t bottle it this time – send the letters in – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 3 in General
imageTory MPs shouldn’t bottle it this time – send the letters in – politicalbetting.com

The last time there was an opportunity to oust Johnson was in January though at the time there wasn’t the strength of opinion to carry this through.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,246
    Test
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 16,147
    If I was a Tory MP I'd wait a bit and see how he gets on. If it looks bad then put the new guy in maybe Autumn 2023, that way they can have a snap election if things are looking momentarily good.

    It's not like there won't be another pretext to do it, Boris is a reliable purveyer of scandals.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206
    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.

    Ultimately, there's no consensus around an alternative. There is no King over the Water, like with Hesseltine. (Or, indeed, with Johnson relative to May.)

    And therefore there is no desire to rock the boat.

    Unless next year's locals are utterly disastrous (and given the baseline, they are likely to be reasonable), then I simply don't see it.

    Johnson will - probably - lead the Conservatives into the next election. If the cost of living crisis is resolved, then I suspect he will win, albeit with a reduced majority. On the other hand, if it is not, then he's likely to be butchered by the electorate.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.

    True but this is last chance saloon time. Any later, the argument is it is too close to next GE. They have to move now
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    Baroness Davidson, former leader of the Scottish Conservatives, said it was clear the PM had lied to parliament and his position was untenable.

    "There is now photographic evidence that when the prime minister stood up in parliament and was asked directly was there a party in No 10 on this date and he replied 'no', he lied to Parliament," she told Channel 4 News.

    "I don't think his job is tenable and his position is tenable. The office of prime minister should be above being traduced by the person who holds it."

    And current Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross demanded an explanation of why the PM thinks his behaviour was "acceptable" when most will think the pictures "seem unjustifiable and wrong".

    https://news.sky.com/story/amp/partygate-tory-mps-criticise-photos-of-pm-at-lockdown-drinks-ahead-of-sue-gray-report-12620093

    Worm re-re-re-turns
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Are they waiting for the war to be over ?

    German Federal Security Council has been blocking the export of 100 Marder IFVs to Ukraine for over a month, Bild writes.

    The application by Rheinmetall company to supply Marders was submitted on 22 April but remains not approved by the German Government.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1528929275998441474
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    We should rewrite Rees-Mogg’s favourite ballad:*

    Just show me the arse
    Who raises a glass
    And I’ll treat him to hay in a manger.

    *The Farmer’s Toast.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206
    Head of UN World Food Programme confirms talks are underway to secure sea and rail corridors for grain exports out of Ukraine, as Harpoon anti-ship missiles are on their way from Denmark.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/23/millions-marching-starvation-putin-unleashes-global-food-catastrophe/
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10847419/Royal-Navy-escort-ships-carrying-Ukrainian-grain-Black-Sea.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206
    edited May 24
    Nigelb said:

    Are they waiting for the war to be over ?

    German Federal Security Council has been blocking the export of 100 Marder IFVs to Ukraine for over a month, Bild writes.

    The application by Rheinmetall company to supply Marders was submitted on 22 April but remains not approved by the German Government.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1528929275998441474

    Yes, they’re waiting for the war to be over. Cowards, more worried about upsetting Russia than helping Ukraine defend itself.

    Edit: and Henry Kissinger can f.off too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    Sandpit said:

    Head of UN World Food Programme confirms talks are underway to secure sea and rail corridors for grain exports out of Ukraine, as Harpoon anti-ship missiles are on their way from Denmark.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/23/millions-marching-starvation-putin-unleashes-global-food-catastrophe/
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10847419/Royal-Navy-escort-ships-carrying-Ukrainian-grain-Black-Sea.html

    How much use will sea corridors be unless somebody provides Ukraine with mine sweeping vessels and equipment?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,478
    Still think Johnson is going nowhere. Tory MPs are making jokes about party gate - they clearly don't care. Not even enough for a leadership challenge.

    And Johnson will obviously not resign - so he would need to lose a vote. Cannot see a majority of Tory MPs voting against him. Maybe a newbie like Aaron Bell will sacrifice his career for the ludicrous belief that his colleagues care. But that's it surely.

    Struggling to imagine what new evidence of parties could emerge at this stage... handwritten invitations from Boris that there will be a champagne fountain out of his bedroom window in Downing Street? Let's be honest, there is no MP that believes his stories - and the vast majority simply don't care. This is clear.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    edited May 24
    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Ossoff had him bang to rights in that debate. Perdue’s not just a crook, he is so, so much more (and not in a good way).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.

    Ultimately, there's no consensus around an alternative. There is no King over the Water, like with Hesseltine. (Or, indeed, with Johnson relative to May.)

    And therefore there is no desire to rock the boat.

    Unless next year's locals are utterly disastrous (and given the baseline, they are likely to be reasonable), then I simply don't see it.

    Johnson will - probably - lead the Conservatives into the next election. If the cost of living crisis is resolved, then I suspect he will win, albeit with a reduced majority. On the other hand, if it is not, then he's likely to be butchered by the electorate.
    This is a demented ground hog day, endlessly repeating. How many locals or by elections do the Tories need to be whipped in before the curse is broken?

    The pictures are damning, but the attempt to knobble Sue Grey is legally, constituionally and politically even worse…

    Ministers like Zahawi, who went on air to defend the propriety of that meeting before the truth came out, should resign in protest. That they won’t shows just how far Johnson has corrupted his party.

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    This is crunch month for Johnson.

    I'm expecting the tory MPs to bottle it and for them to suffer a landslide defeat in two years.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Head of UN World Food Programme confirms talks are underway to secure sea and rail corridors for grain exports out of Ukraine, as Harpoon anti-ship missiles are on their way from Denmark.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/23/millions-marching-starvation-putin-unleashes-global-food-catastrophe/
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10847419/Royal-Navy-escort-ships-carrying-Ukrainian-grain-Black-Sea.html

    How much use will sea corridors be unless somebody provides Ukraine with mine sweeping vessels and equipment?
    It sounds like the plan is for an international naval fleet, flying UN flags, sweeping the area and keeping the corridor open, backed by land-based anti-ship weapons in Odesa. It sounds plausible, but no doubt the Russians will see it as provocative. The alternative is a global grain shortage this summer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    Commons committee criticised the evacuation from Afghanistan, saying personnel were ‘utterly let down.’

    No. Shit. Sherlocks.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.

    Ultimately, there's no consensus around an alternative. There is no King over the Water, like with Hesseltine. (Or, indeed, with Johnson relative to May.)

    And therefore there is no desire to rock the boat.

    Unless next year's locals are utterly disastrous (and given the baseline, they are likely to be reasonable), then I simply don't see it.

    Johnson will - probably - lead the Conservatives into the next election. If the cost of living crisis is resolved, then I suspect he will win, albeit with a reduced majority. On the other hand, if it is not, then he's likely to be butchered by the electorate.
    I agree but the idea that there are no alternatives is very myopic of them. There are over a hundred tory MPs more suited to the top job than Johnson and one of them would emerge.

    There is plenty of time and they could do it.

    Will they? No, like you I don't think they will.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,112
    Good morning, everyone.

    The PCP should be grateful to the German Government, otherwise they might be the biggest political cowards in Europe.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371

    If I was a Tory MP I'd wait a bit and see how he gets on. If it looks bad then put the new guy in maybe Autumn 2023, that way they can have a snap election if things are looking momentarily good.

    It's not like there won't be another pretext to do it, Boris is a reliable purveyer of scandals.

    I think this profoundly misreads the situation. It's now or never.

    If he survives the next month, he stays until the GE.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,708
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.

    True but this is last chance saloon time. Any later, the argument is it is too close to next GE. They have to move now
    I agree it is now or never, which means likely never.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,112
    Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).

    I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,881
    Johnson is giving the right wing English nationalists who now make up the majority of the Tory membership and MPs what they crave - culture war and endless confrontation with the EU. The lies, the grift and the erosion of Parliamentary democracy, not to mention the cost of living crisis, are but details. He leads because he is what the Conservative party now is. So, he’s going nowhere.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    Meanwhile, The Daily Mail has become a joke
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,884
    mwadams said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.

    True but this is last chance saloon time. Any later, the argument is it is too close to next GE. They have to move now
    I agree it is now or never, which means likely never.
    Not quite. We are only half way through this 5 year parliament. I don't thin it will happen now, but it's 50/50 whether it will happen before Dec 2024. 2023 exit is possible value.

  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Disgraceful
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    algarkirk said:

    mwadams said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.

    True but this is last chance saloon time. Any later, the argument is it is too close to next GE. They have to move now
    I agree it is now or never, which means likely never.
    Not quite. We are only half way through this 5 year parliament. I don't thin it will happen now, but it's 50/50 whether it will happen before Dec 2024. 2023 exit is possible value.

    I think betting on 2023 is throwing away money. Why? Because there will never be a better set of reasons, or more traction, for removing him than now. If they can't do it now, they won't at all.

    If you think they will remove him 6 months before a GE because of a wish for sunlit uplands then you totally misread Boris Johnson. For all his many faults by the time we get to autumn next year he will be into election bribing big time. He will promise them the universe and many will still believe him.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,597
    rkrkrk said:

    Still think Johnson is going nowhere. Tory MPs are making jokes about party gate - they clearly don't care. Not even enough for a leadership challenge.

    And Johnson will obviously not resign - so he would need to lose a vote. Cannot see a majority of Tory MPs voting against him. Maybe a newbie like Aaron Bell will sacrifice his career for the ludicrous belief that his colleagues care. But that's it surely.

    Struggling to imagine what new evidence of parties could emerge at this stage... handwritten invitations from Boris that there will be a champagne fountain out of his bedroom window in Downing Street? Let's be honest, there is no MP that believes his stories - and the vast majority simply don't care. This is clear.

    They, as in the aforementioned vast majority, care about their jobs and nothing else. OGH advances the theory that they are more likely to avoid the boot if they get rid of Johnson; it looks to me like they've decided the contrary. They think they've more chance of extending their useless presence in Parliament beyond 2024 with Johnson in place than with an alternative leader, so that's the end of the matter. He stays.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Ossoff had him bang to rights in that debate. Perdue’s not just a crook, he is so, so much more (and not in a good way).
    Ossoff is also a genuinely class act.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Ossoff had him bang to rights in that debate. Perdue’s not just a crook, he is so, so much more (and not in a good way).
    Ossoff is also a genuinely class act.
    As I remember Ossoff also called Perdue out for anti-semitism in that debate too, to which Perdue didn’t have an answer.

    It’s a damning indictment of the Republicans that such a person is able to rise high in their counsels.

    Even allowing for Ossoff’s brilliance.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,721
    The polls are dour are they?
    Sounds like Wakefield is a hold then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    edited May 24
    Meanwhile in job market news:

    One in five employees expect to change jobs this year
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61552546

    Interesting that younger employees seem to be keen on working from home. The frequent impression on here is that it's the opposite.

    Maybe it just offers them more flexibility in what jobs they can do?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    IshmaelZ said:
    The Big Dog looked after his own.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206
    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile in job market news:

    One in five employees expect to change jobs this year
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61552546

    Interesting that younger employees seem to be keen on working from home. The frequent impression on here is that it's the opposite.

    Maybe it just offers them more flexibility in what jobs they can do?

    Perhaps they can live with their parents and save a deposit, rather than spending half their wages on renting a shoe box in London?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,569
    Cicero said:

    Meanwhile Estonians expressing their feelings about the war in the most characteristically Estonian way, but in the Ukrainian language. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWSMdxAxW3c&ab_channel=EstoniaSingsforUkraine

    That is beautiful. I'm going to ask Mrs PtP if she will play it on one of her late-night radio progs.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,522
    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile in job market news:

    One in five employees expect to change jobs this year
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61552546

    Interesting that younger employees seem to be keen on working from home. The frequent impression on here is that it's the opposite.

    Maybe it just offers them more flexibility in what jobs they can do?

    Hmm. The Telegraph claims on the basis of an ONS report that wealthy, middle-class, middle-aged people are more likely to work from home.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/23/still-working-home-probably-middle-aged-wealthy/ (£££)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,158
    "With the Gray report coming out in the next couple of days there is never going to be a better moment to get rid of the current leadership."

    After an election defeat will be the best time.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,569
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Disgraceful
    The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile in job market news:

    One in five employees expect to change jobs this year
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61552546

    Interesting that younger employees seem to be keen on working from home. The frequent impression on here is that it's the opposite.

    Maybe it just offers them more flexibility in what jobs they can do?

    Hmm. The Telegraph claims on the basis of an ONS report that wealthy, middle-class, middle-aged people are more likely to work from home.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/23/still-working-home-probably-middle-aged-wealthy/ (£££)
    More likely to, or *want* to?

    I can imagine rather a lot of managers insisting everyone else cram into a commuter train while they sit sipping coffee at home...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,522
    IshmaelZ said:
    No criticism of the Foreign Secretary (Dominic Raab) sipping cocktails by a pool?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,335



    And yet there we have Michael Gove advertised as the big pull to Tory activists in a pub at lunchtime.

    Campaign events were legal. Your squirming just makes us laugh at your massive plank even harder.

    No photos of this big Gove at the pub at lunchtime leafletting event have yet emerged, but from the same schedule of campaign events was this one with Stuart Anderson MP at the Merry Hill pub.

    I'd wait until you've seen a picture of maskless Gove drinking inside the pub before you rely on it too heavily.


  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,394
    Public sector borrowing figures out:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/dzls/pusf

    Another fairly big revision to the February figure. Here's what it looked like in March, when it was first reported:



    And here's what it looks like as of May:



    I wonder if ONS would be better off reporting three months after the month-end? I guess someone must get some value out of seeing an initial figure, but it does change quite a lot.

    Anyway, it looks like we're back to where we were 10 years ago, which isn't especially great, but at least it's not as bleak as the first set of figures suggest. I'm not sure how much there is left to be gained from rolling back COVID spend. It might be that the "new normal" means less income for the government.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 2,127



    And yet there we have Michael Gove advertised as the big pull to Tory activists in a pub at lunchtime.

    Campaign events were legal. Your squirming just makes us laugh at your massive plank even harder.

    No photos of this big Gove at the pub at lunchtime leafletting event have yet emerged, but from the same schedule of campaign events was this one with Stuart Anderson MP at the Merry Hill pub.

    I'd wait until you've seen a picture of maskless Gove drinking inside the pub before you rely on it too heavily.


    I reckon the two in the background are only about 190 cm apart though!!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 16,147
    IshmaelZ said:
    This is what you need to shift Boris, simultaneous attacks on multiple axes.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,525
    The 50/50 chance is that a new set of revelations comes out about Boris that is objectively more serious than partygate. I've been musing that the fundraising structure that Boris has set up is something that could be used to obscure donations from Russian oligarchs, including sanctioned people and /or those supporting the Russian war effort, and that Boris would not necessarily tale the care to avoid that nor want to see the problem in doing that when caught.

    But it could just as easily be something else.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,522

    Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).

    I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.

    What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,372
    edited May 24
    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,773

    IshmaelZ said:
    This is what you need to shift Boris, simultaneous attacks on multiple axes.
    The last few years of Trump and Johnson have been a case study in what you can achieve through sheer brazen shamelessness. It's remarkable how much of the usual cycle of rise and fall relies on politicians admitting wrongdoing and defeat. When they don't they are incredibly hard to shift.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,080
    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, The Daily Mail has become a joke

    Become?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,112
    Mr. JohnL, how are Amazon making it harder to move files by hooking a Kindle up to a computer?

    As far as I can tell the oldest e-readers will still work except that buying books from the store will no longer be possible (by using said device).
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,094
    If he put dogs' lives over those of humans' he has to go. He's finally jumped the shark. The rest of the whingeing can be dismissed as political bias of various sorts.

    That's very common. You develop unreasonable hatred based on their politics. They are always wrong. Their opposition must therefore always be right. Why?

    Much better to distrust all politicians - you're never disappointed then.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    This is what you need to shift Boris, simultaneous attacks on multiple axes.
    The last few years of Trump and Johnson have been a case study in what you can achieve through sheer brazen shamelessness. It's remarkable how much of the usual cycle of rise and fall relies on politicians admitting wrongdoing and defeat. When they don't they are incredibly hard to shift.
    Yes the comparison between Trump and Johnson is becoming clearer and clearer.

    What a mess.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,773
    Pro_Rata said:

    The 50/50 chance is that a new set of revelations comes out about Boris that is objectively more serious than partygate. I've been musing that the fundraising structure that Boris has set up is something that could be used to obscure donations from Russian oligarchs, including sanctioned people and /or those supporting the Russian war effort, and that Boris would not necessarily tale the care to avoid that nor want to see the problem in doing that when caught.

    But it could just as easily be something else.

    Yes, when someone appears to have no personal scruples it's generally a question of opportunity rather than motive.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,113
    Pretty pic and very apposite to the skyscraper argument yesterday (not suggesting that starts up again obvs).

    https://twitter.com/SpaceHub_SL/status/1528392579167191040?cxt=HHwWgIDU6f68-LUqAAAA
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,335



    And yet there we have Michael Gove advertised as the big pull to Tory activists in a pub at lunchtime.

    Campaign events were legal. Your squirming just makes us laugh at your massive plank even harder.

    No photos of this big Gove at the pub at lunchtime leafletting event have yet emerged, but from the same schedule of campaign events was this one with Stuart Anderson MP at the Merry Hill pub.

    I'd wait until you've seen a picture of maskless Gove drinking inside the pub before you rely on it too heavily.


    Another lunchtime pub campaign event from the same W Mids series, featuring two MPs and a Mayor (do they add up to a Gove?) at The Fairfield.

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,372
    tlg86 said:

    Public sector borrowing figures out:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/dzls/pusf

    Another fairly big revision to the February figure. Here's what it looked like in March, when it was first reported:



    And here's what it looks like as of May:



    I wonder if ONS would be better off reporting three months after the month-end? I guess someone must get some value out of seeing an initial figure, but it does change quite a lot.

    Anyway, it looks like we're back to where we were 10 years ago, which isn't especially great, but at least it's not as bleak as the first set of figures suggest. I'm not sure how much there is left to be gained from rolling back COVID spend. It might be that the "new normal" means less income for the government.

    I wouldn't rule out Covid being a factor. Not enough of a factor to cause the entire deficit, but some of it.

    From memory I believe in February we will still doing bullshit like free tests and things that were costing about a billion a month? So that's about 10% of the deficit right there.

    Add in that in February a lot of people were still being very cautious socialising etc because of all the fear-mongering around Christmas about Omicron etc which takes time for people to regain their confidence over. Heck the ridiculous f***ing law about needing to wear masks in public was still in place in February, that only ended in the middle of March.

    Thankfully now when going out and about masks and all the rest of the Covid bullshit are becoming ever rarer to see, unlike February when they were still legally required. The more Covid theatre we abolish, the more things can go back to a real normal instead of a new normal.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,113



    And yet there we have Michael Gove advertised as the big pull to Tory activists in a pub at lunchtime.

    Campaign events were legal. Your squirming just makes us laugh at your massive plank even harder.

    No photos of this big Gove at the pub at lunchtime leafletting event have yet emerged, but from the same schedule of campaign events was this one with Stuart Anderson MP at the Merry Hill pub.

    I'd wait until you've seen a picture of maskless Gove drinking inside the pub before you rely on it too heavily.


    I reckon the two in the background are only about 190 cm apart though!!
    Don't know the wind direction, which is actually highly germane.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 19,712
    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.

    After Mrs May won her confidence vote did we have to wait a year to remove her...?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 17,417



    And yet there we have Michael Gove advertised as the big pull to Tory activists in a pub at lunchtime.

    Campaign events were legal. Your squirming just makes us laugh at your massive plank even harder.

    No photos of this big Gove at the pub at lunchtime leafletting event have yet emerged, but from the same schedule of campaign events was this one with Stuart Anderson MP at the Merry Hill pub.

    I'd wait until you've seen a picture of maskless Gove drinking inside the pub before you rely on it too heavily.


    I reckon the two in the background are only about 190 cm apart though!!
    Throw away the key!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,522

    Mr. JohnL, how are Amazon making it harder to move files by hooking a Kindle up to a computer?

    As far as I can tell the oldest e-readers will still work except that buying books from the store will no longer be possible (by using said device).

    The file transfer is easy. Getting the book file onto the computer in the first place is now harder because even when you request this, it instead just whacks it out over the air and you have to go back and explicitly download it. This might just be a user-interface cock-up that will soon be corrected, as they've recently redesigned the buying process.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,372
    Carnyx said:

    Pretty pic and very apposite to the skyscraper argument yesterday (not suggesting that starts up again obvs).

    https://twitter.com/SpaceHub_SL/status/1528392579167191040?cxt=HHwWgIDU6f68-LUqAAAA

    Wow thanks for sharing that, that has to be one of the most incredible pictures of Manhattan that I've ever seen. Very cool. 👍
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,773

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
    The hypocrisy is definitely there, of course. In fact in most major national controversies in recent years both sides have been hypocritical - it's what happens when people see things through a partisan lens.

    However, seeing the difference between the one rather dull looking affair in Durham and a culture of regular parties across the Westminster estate including DJs and Karaoke is not partisan hypocrisy, it's how the general public also see it - they are not stupid.

    As a Lib Dem I am of course crossing my fingers nothing equivalent even to Keir's curry comes up, but to be honest I severely doubt it.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    edited May 24

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Disgraceful
    The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
    Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".

    She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.

    It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had, not just the bottle, but the integrity to remove him.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.


    As a Lib Dem I am of course crossing my fingers nothing equivalent even to Keir's curry comes up, but to be honest I severely doubt it.
    Yes and as SKS has said he'll resign if fined I can't really see how hypocrisy sticks on this.

    Personally I'd be very happy if both Johnson and Starmer get the boot.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,394
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
    The hypocrisy is definitely there, of course. In fact in most major national controversies in recent years both sides have been hypocritical - it's what happens when people see things through a partisan lens.

    However, seeing the difference between the one rather dull looking affair in Durham and a culture of regular parties across the Westminster estate including DJs and Karaoke is not partisan hypocrisy, it's how the general public also see it - they are not stupid.

    As a Lib Dem I am of course crossing my fingers nothing equivalent even to Keir's curry comes up, but to be honest I severely doubt it.
    The footage from Durham clearly shows that when they didn't think they were being watched, Labour politicians weren't nearly as worried about COVID as they claimed to be.

    Maybe their transgressions weren't nearly as bad as what went on in Number 10, but Labour wanted to prolong COVID way beyond what was necessary. So it's pretty galling to see that they were only doing so because they thought it politically expedient.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983
    Cicero said:

    Meanwhile Estonians expressing their feelings about the war in the most characteristically Estonian way, but in the Ukrainian language. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWSMdxAxW3c&ab_channel=EstoniaSingsforUkraine

    This is what European unity looks like, Germany. Fuck you and your commercial self interest.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    The worst thing in politics is when supporters of a given party continue to defend the indefensible
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,372
    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    He wants her to go back to Wisconsin?

    Perdue is a vile racist scumbag as are the entire rotten edifice of the GOP. The GOP needs to be torn down from top to bottom, Abraham Lincoln would be rolling in his grave ashamed of what his party has become.
  • mr-claypolemr-claypole Posts: 199
    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    This is what you need to shift Boris, simultaneous attacks on multiple axes.
    The last few years of Trump and Johnson have been a case study in what you can achieve through sheer brazen shamelessness. It's remarkable how much of the usual cycle of rise and fall relies on politicians admitting wrongdoing and defeat. When they don't they are incredibly hard to shift.
    True- although democracy puts you in office until you are removed from it. That's where the Trump business was terrifying because the attempt to hold on to power may be a harbinger of what may happen in the future there. He was fairly close to overturning it whatever way you look at it.

    Whatever happens with Boris now he is since Lloyd George the most shameless occupant of Downing Street and had things not become so hyper partisan you would feel his own side would have removed him long ago. You have to really hate your opponent to want to hold onto a leader like that.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,773
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Disgraceful
    The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
    Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".

    She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.

    It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
    I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.

    I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    ydoethur said:

    Commons committee criticised the evacuation from Afghanistan, saying personnel were ‘utterly let down.’

    No. Shit. Sherlocks.

    Calling for the PS to resign - but they did have the decency to add: “It might be convenient to blame FCDO officials or military intelligence for these failures, but ministers should have been driving this policy,”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,721
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
    The hypocrisy is definitely there, of course. In fact in most major national controversies in recent years both sides have been hypocritical - it's what happens when people see things through a partisan lens.

    However, seeing the difference between the one rather dull looking affair in Durham and a culture of regular parties across the Westminster estate including DJs and Karaoke is not partisan hypocrisy, it's how the general public also see it - they are not stupid.

    As a Lib Dem I am of course crossing my fingers nothing equivalent even to Keir's curry comes up, but to be honest I severely doubt it.
    Interesting to see even the Daily Mail comments are pretty poor for the PM.
    Most of supportive ones fall back on "everyone did the same."
    Which just doesn't ring true.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 19,712
    Nigelb said:

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think there’s 180 MPs ready to turn against the PM yet. The letters won’t go in until they’re sure they can win 50% of Tory MPs, otherwise they have to wait a year for another go. Even Mrs May survived a confidence vote, when she’d lost her majority and couldn’t get her flagship policy enacted.

    Ultimately, there's no consensus around an alternative. There is no King over the Water, like with Hesseltine. (Or, indeed, with Johnson relative to May.)

    And therefore there is no desire to rock the boat.

    Unless next year's locals are utterly disastrous (and given the baseline, they are likely to be reasonable), then I simply don't see it.

    Johnson will - probably - lead the Conservatives into the next election. If the cost of living crisis is resolved, then I suspect he will win, albeit with a reduced majority. On the other hand, if it is not, then he's likely to be butchered by the electorate.
    This is a demented ground hog day, endlessly repeating. How many locals or by elections do the Tories need to be whipped in before the curse is broken?

    The pictures are damning, but the attempt to knobble Sue Grey is legally, constituionally and politically even worse…

    Ministers like Zahawi, who went on air to defend the propriety of that meeting before the truth came out, should resign in protest. That they won’t shows just how far Johnson has corrupted his party.

    The Zahawi - Ridge interview was one of the worst I have seen because he knew fully well that what he was saying was preposterous but had expected that if he ups the ante and makes grand statements about propriety he would be left alone with his spin line. But at least he knew the spin line was preposterous.

    Then we have Simon Clarke. A man who has been promoted to the Treasury specifically because he is tall and it winds up Sunak. Clarke has this track record now of being sent out on the media all innocent like to repeat whatever he has been told only to have Number 10 reverse fettle hours later.

    And here it was. Repeating the Number 10 / Paul Dacre line that its all that bad'un Gray's doing. Which sounded preposterous from any mouth other than Clarke's. So it would be unfair to ask Clarke to resign as he had no idea that he was defaming a senior civil servant to try and save his boss who has brazenly and corruptly tried to spike the independent and damning report into his behaviour.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,525
    edited May 24
    I still think, if it comes to a confidence vote, that lots of Tory MPs will take the chance to be publically supportive but privately know the damage is such that they vote him out.

    EDIT: not 'put' - a one fat finger typo that changed the entire meaning of the post!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    This is what you need to shift Boris, simultaneous attacks on multiple axes.
    The last few years of Trump and Johnson have been a case study in what you can achieve through sheer brazen shamelessness. It's remarkable how much of the usual cycle of rise and fall relies on politicians admitting wrongdoing and defeat. When they don't they are incredibly hard to shift.
    True- although democracy puts you in office until you are removed from it. That's where the Trump business was terrifying because the attempt to hold on to power may be a harbinger of what may happen in the future there. He was fairly close to overturning it whatever way you look at it.

    Whatever happens with Boris now he is since Lloyd George the most shameless occupant of Downing Street and had things not become so hyper partisan you would feel his own side would have removed him long ago. You have to really hate your opponent to want to hold onto a leader like that.
    The honours system has got to go, it is the most extraordinary instrument for corruption in the hands of the likes of Lloyd George and Johnson. A peerage is worth millions to recipients, free for the PM to award, and can be awarded quite openly. Who doubts that titles and peerages have been hinted at to the Met and to Gray?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,372
    TimS said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Disgraceful
    The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
    Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".

    She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.

    It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
    I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.

    I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
    Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.

    I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.

    Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 297

    Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).

    I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.

    What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
    I won't buy anything over a certain price where the function relies on an app or server remaining active. It amazes me the amount of money people will spend on tech that can become redundant in a moment. I got burned by my beloved Pebble smart watch getting shut down when Fitbit bought them.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 647
    If only Johnson had resigned November/december last year, it would have been dead news by Christmas. That is where a combination of stupidity and arrogance can get you!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,522

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
    Who are you trying to convince? Yourself maybe? Here is a better approach.

    Boris was not fined but others were for that same event. So perhaps the rozzers concluded that saying goodbye to colleagues at a leaving do counts as a legitimate work event (allowed) but that after the Prime Minister left, it degenerated into a no holds barred booze-up (verboten).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
    Having a beer with a meal may not be a good look for a politician, and doing so may have been a technical breach in April 2021. Durham Constabulary caved in to political pressure from the Daily Mail. They should have stayed above the politics.

    Do you not see that being surrounded by empty glasses and bottles is evidence not of a party, but a bone fide piss up? This isn't a technical breach of the rules it is a piss up.

    In Johnson's favour no one can accuse him of being unable to organise a piss up in a brewery.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420

    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    He wants her to go back to Wisconsin?

    Perdue is a vile racist scumbag as are the entire rotten edifice of the GOP. The GOP needs to be torn down from top to bottom, Abraham Lincoln would be rolling in his grave ashamed of what his party has become.
    Though he is threatened by the even loonier Kandiss Taylor running on the slogan "Jesus, Guns, Babies". Welcome to Gilead.

    Heres a little clip of her failing to understand the First Amendment:

    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1528441681191788544?t=9qLL81Ya2_OnhsvPL9B4Vw&s=19

    GA GOP Gov candidate Kandiss Taylor today: “We’re gonna do a political rally and we’re gonna honor Jesus .. They’re not gonna tell us ‘separation of church and state.’ We are the church! We run this state! .. The church runs the state of Georgia!” https://t.co/CP19s4KKSL
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    edited May 24
    IshmaelZ said:

    ...And says Johnson responsible for dog evacuation

    Indeed. He's responsible for all kinds of shit.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 19,712
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Disgraceful
    Happened to me in 2019. His eminence the Mayor for life drunk posted on Facebook at 3am that I was a bad'un and wasn't born there so would never understand there and would be better off going home to Rochdale.

    He did of course defeat me in the election. After an entertaining spat where he shouted abuse firstly at me and the rest of the candidates and then at a resident whilst parked outside the funeral home as they were forming up a funeral procession complete with coffin in the back.

    You get what you vote for!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,569
    JACK_W said:

    The only question Tory MP's need to reflect on is how badly will they lose with Bozo at the next general election :

    A toxic PM with a toxic cost of living crisis = a toxic result. Simple really. No change = no chance. Put your letters in and let's be done with this embarrassment of a Prime Minister.

    Thank you.

    I've given that a like, Jack, not because it was a particularly good post but because at your great age it is wonderful to see you can still operate a keyboard. Well done.

    Keep going old codger.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,482
    Pro_Rata said:

    I still think, if it comes to a confidence vote, that lots of Tory MPs will take the chance to be publically supportive but privately know the damage is such that they vote him out.

    EDIT: not 'put' - a one fat finger typo that changed the entire meaning of the post!

    That would mean being dishonest, self-serving and disloyal.

    So in one sense, Boris could hardly complain. MPs would only be following their leader's example.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,372

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
    Who are you trying to convince? Yourself maybe? Here is a better approach.

    Boris was not fined but others were for that same event. So perhaps the rozzers concluded that saying goodbye to colleagues at a leaving do counts as a legitimate work event (allowed) but that after the Prime Minister left, it degenerated into a no holds barred booze-up (verboten).
    That's entirely possible and if that is the case then on your own logic the PM is not a liar since when he attended the event it was a lawful event and when people brought it up he could truthfully say that he thought all guidelines were followed as they were while he was present.

    Either you accept that alcohol was allowed, in which case the PM is not a liar just because alcohol is present, or you believe that alcohol was verboten, in which case Keir Starmer is a liar and a hypocrite.

    You can't have it both ways. Anyone who tries to is just revelling in their own hypocrisy.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 19,712

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
    You have chosen a very typical hill to die on. "Alcohol" is not the pivot factor to anyone except you. It is being used of evidence of a party - a social event - but only you have decided that alcohol is the legal / illegal pivot.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449

    Carnyx said:

    Pretty pic and very apposite to the skyscraper argument yesterday (not suggesting that starts up again obvs).

    https://twitter.com/SpaceHub_SL/status/1528392579167191040?cxt=HHwWgIDU6f68-LUqAAAA

    Wow thanks for sharing that, that has to be one of the most incredible pictures of Manhattan that I've ever seen. Very cool. 👍
    It's a tiny bit misleading for that photo to be tweeted by a space/astronomy tweep without further comment. That "photo" is a few years old now, and is a composite from a series of aerial photos taken from helicopters.
    It's certainly very striking, but it's definitely neither from space nor from a single exposure.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,034
    It’s boiling frog syndrome, isn’t it?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 19,712

    TimS said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Still plumbing new depths.

    Former Senator David Perdue ended his campaign for governor of Georgia with a racist appeal to Republican primary voters on Monday, accusing Stacey Abrams, the presumptive Democratic nominee, of “demeaning her own race.”
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617

    Perdue on Abrams: She’s not from here. My inclination is to say “you don’t like it, go back to where you came from”
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1528864818270048257

    Disgraceful
    The truly disgraceful thing is the number of voters who are prepared to support him.
    Yep I sat with two people yesterday one of whom has completely turned against Johnson but the other is still in love with him. Two of us were trying to persuade her of a thousand reasons why Boris Johnson is unfit for the office of PM but she still continues to "like Boris".

    She's not a graduate and I throw that into the mix with caution because, despite occasionally suggesting otherwise, I don't really like that supercilious 'we know best' attitude. But I think it's pertinent because there's no doubt that Boris is continuing to draw support from non-graduates and those who have failed as yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand. Oh dear, I've just been supercilious. It's hard so don't get angry BR & Co.

    It genuinely baffles me how anyone can still support him. And I'd have a lot more respect for the Conservatives if they had not just the bottle but the integrity to remove him.
    I often wonder the same about serial philanderers who still manage to convince the next woman that this time they will be faithful. I think some people just really want to believe in Boris because he is, in some way that the rest of us just don't see, charming to a large portion of the population.

    I also think there is another sizeable chunk who have no love for the man but see him as a vehicle for their partisan agenda so are happy to overlook the character flaws so long as he is [delivering Brexit; insulting the French; keeping out the migrants]. Unfortunately for him that pragmatic group doesn't now include: cutting taxes; keeping out Corbyn; levelling up; or for that matter "delivering Brexit".
    Well indeed I think Boris should be forced out and have said so for about 7 months now but that for me is because he raised taxes and that was a deal-breaker. Had he not done that, I'd be happy for him to stay on, but he did and that's a breach of trust I can't accept.

    I think the brouhaha over your guy was drinking alcohol because he's a party animal, my guy was drinking alcohol because he's hard at work campaigning is stupid, hypocritical asinine bullshit that has dominated the public conversation far too much but that doesn't change the fact that Boris should go because he raised taxes.

    Everyone has their own red lines and that was my one.
    Your red line? Yes.
    The legal red line? No.
    Anyone else's red line? Don't be silly.

    Yet this is this week's straw man that you have decided will batter all other arguments and posters into submission. Erm, no.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206
    Stereodog said:

    Hmm, my Kindle (e-reader) is soon going to be unable to use the Amazon store any more (though buying via computer then transferring by wire should work).

    I know tech stuff gets updated often but this surprises me slightly. It's a pretty basic function, though maybe it's security related. Or maybe they just want people to buy new e-readers.

    What is the kindle story? Ironically, I prefer to transfer via computer but Amazon seems to be making that harder.
    I won't buy anything over a certain price where the function relies on an app or server remaining active. It amazes me the amount of money people will spend on tech that can become redundant in a moment. I got burned by my beloved Pebble smart watch getting shut down when Fitbit bought them.
    Very much so.

    The home automation stuff is terrible for it, lots of startup companies who end up acquired and shut down. Avoid anything by Google too, for them everything is a beta product.

    Samsung stuff is good, as is anything supporting Apple Home - they can be controlled locally with no internet connection required.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    edited May 24

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
    Who are you trying to convince? Yourself maybe? Here is a better approach.

    Boris was not fined but others were for that same event. So perhaps the rozzers concluded that saying goodbye to colleagues at a leaving do counts as a legitimate work event (allowed) but that after the Prime Minister left, it degenerated into a no holds barred booze-up (verboten).

    Either you accept that alcohol was allowed,
    RP has just pointed out that your pivot around alcohol is a bit bizarre.

    Johnson broke his own rules, which he had enforced on the rest of the country, and then lied about to Parliament.

    That's the issue. Not whether what was in his glass was 40%, 13% or 0% proof.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,335

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT) Interesting point - try it.

    I just looked at my phone Photos for November 2020 ... at no stage do any of them look like this. Try it with your photos... if you can find a party with raised glasses you probably were a Tory politician or SPAD .. that's how bad it is
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1528835927279288322

    I looked, and found pictures of only two people I don’t live with, for the entire month. FWIW.

    Or Keir Starmer.

    I don't have photos like either of theirs at either dates, but its amusing to see people who are utterly 100% adamant that drinking alcohol is a party/campaigning [delete one as applicable] depending upon who is photographed.

    The hypocrisy is strong.
    You have chosen a very typical hill to die on. "Alcohol" is not the pivot factor to anyone except you. It is being used of evidence of a party - a social event - but only you have decided that alcohol is the legal / illegal pivot.
    Which bit of "meeting Gove at the pub" did you think was killer?
This discussion has been closed.