Still not much from WA. Coalition held 10 of 15. Unless they pick up a couple it is getting hard to see them forming a government. Most likely we won't know for weeks. Postals haven't been counted anywhere either.
Sky has projected the Coalition cannot form another majority government anyway.
So most likely now a hung parliament and coalition talks over the next week or two, with a slim chance of a Labor majority
"The police must investigate No. 10 parties!" - The parties are investigated and BJ and others get fined. "Look at the good job the police did! And there's more to come!" - The police don't issue more fines to BJ, but others do get them. "The police have done a horrid job! The top people have got away with it!"
Perhaps the underlings who got done are not a victim of some stitch-up by No. 10 and the police, but victims of the get-Boris campaign?
Then add in Beergate: "The police have investigated! There's nothing to see here! It's all a put-up job by the Mail!" - It turns out that the Labour Party had lied. "Why does it matter? The police investigated?" - More evidence comes out. "Why does it matter? The police investigated? And the Mail's awful!" - The investigation is reopened. "It's a waste of police time to investigate this!"
etc, etc.
You do know that is quite literally the Wail's position reversed. Attacks Labour's push on this - DON'T THEY KNOW THERE'S A WAR ON. Then 10 days of stories piling pressure on the police to do Starmer - one front page literally being TORY PRESSURE TO MAKE THE POLICE ACT. Then Starmer says "I'll quit" and they complain he's trying to pressure the police, then when newss breaks about the Met whitewhash its "WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY".
So you are right, but you're talking about the Tories.
Remember there is a very clear difference between the two sides. We have reams of evidence about Boris and Number 10 breaking the law over and over and over. She prepares a brutal report. Someone leans on the Met to provide cover. Which they do. With a narrow field of investigation. So that now the Gray report will come out and tear Number 10 apart the police have already found Him innocent by simply not investigating the hideous reportage and photos we're about to get. The establishment always looks after its own - if you are a civil servant with a gong you get protected whilst all your staff carry the can.#
If you want to gloat feel free. Not a good luck for the pro-establishment party as people starve.
I don't care if it's the Mail's position, or the opposite of it.
You were in denial over Beergate. I have no idea if Starmer or anyone else there will get a fine - the law appears to be so poorly written that pretty much anything could result. But it was clear the moment that it turned out that Labour had not told the truth about who had been there that the police investigation had not been thorough.
it would be good for you to be consistent.
I am being consistent. There was a prime fascie case against Johnson which the Met now appear to have investigated primarily to sweep under the carpet. There was not one against Starmer, and the "evidence" was not sufficient to suggest the law had been broken.
That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate.
I still think there is nothing to see and expect nobody to get fined. Buit if I'm wrong they fall on their sword and leave the stage. Which is more than can be said for Bonzo and his Clown Car circus. We're going to get the Gray report. Reams of it. Photos and all. And people like you will say "nothing to see here" for the various events the Met haven't even investigated because no fines have been issued.
I'm quite happy with the consistency of my position. Which on all things is apply the rules equally.
I'm actually going to reply again and say that some of the stuff you've written above is rubbish.
"That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate."
Yeah, right. Even Starmer himself cannot say for sure whether he broke the law or not. I am therefore unsure how you can say there is nothing to investigate. Are you a bigger-brained lawyer than Starmer?
"And people like you will say "nothing to see here" "
LOL. No. *You* are the one saying 'nothing to see here' about Durham. See above.
RP is consistent here.
I believe Starmer and Rayner probably broke the letter of the law, and if the law is applied with rigour they must go simply because they said they would. Richard Holden and the Daily Mail and Telegraph railroaded Durham Constabulary into a highly politicised investigation. Based on how they dealt with Cummings the precedent had been set to walk away.
Johnson personally drove a coach and horses through the rules. The Met launched a token case against him. It now transpires that they didn't even look at his more egregious breaches, they ignored the Abba night at number 10! And Case they ignored completely. Mainly Juniors and Women were fined. Cressida Dick's last hurrah was another operational failure.
The Met intervention rather than allowing justice to be served has allowed Johnson to dodge the Gray Report and remain in office. It has worked out so well for him, it looks very like a conspiratorial whitewash. Even his greatest foe in Government was brought down by a cake!
Tory hacks are laughing and they will laugh louder when Starmer gets his Beergate comeuppance. The reality is Team Johnson has taken the rest of us for a ride. And what about his clandestine meeting with Sue Gray last month...?
On what basis have you determined the police didn’t do their job? That you didn’t like the outcome?
AIUI all we know about the ABBA event is that the Met didn’t recommend any FPNs. We don’t know that they ignored it?
I'm with @Mexicanpete. This has been a total establishment stitch-up to save the PM.
It stinks to high heaven.
Evidence please.
It'll come in time.
For a start, Johnson seems to have been taken at his lawyer's word that all these events he attended he considered to be work and therefore was allowed. But social events at work were not allowed. The only event he has been done for is one that is a joke - a cake turned up at the end of a meeting. The other events were massive piss-ups and we've seen some photo evidence and there's more to come no doubt now that only the kids and the women have actually been fined.
But, to be honest, what's the point anymore? I'm tired of it all. He's safe as houses until GE 2024.
Hopefully enough voters are as angry as I am and will not have forgotten by 2024.
The only one I recall seeing pictures of is the garden party - there he was sitting with his wife and a couple of others. Everyone else in the garden appeared to be socially distanced groups. So it’s possible that Boris thought it was ok/ that it was a work meeting / drink with friends (I’ve lost track of what was allowed when).
The zoom quiz he was on zoom from what I recall.
But I’ve never really been interested
Well you should be. Imagine if Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn had led us down this garden path. You would be outraged.
The wagons have been well and truly circled, but by whom is alarming.
Nah. Don’t really care. Both Johnson and Corbyn were unsuitable candidates for PM.
But whether or not he had a cake doesn’t change my view of him.
I really dont get the whole thing about partygate/beergate....politician lies through his teeth....its a dog bites postman style story
Not supposed to do it to Parliament. Very much not. That's one key issue, and still unresolved.
Why should parliament be priveleged to not be lied to when they lie through their teeth to the rest of us?
AIUI, because it's a formal statement in a formal situation; and also a basic rule of parliamentary procedure. But the contrast was very apparent in my thoughts, if only implicitly.
I know people regard me as an angry voice and yes I am here far more than I would like to be. But the argument I am having with @bondegezou is symptomatic.
Simply put 40 to 50 years ago a household could live on the wage of one earner. Policy really hasnt changed that much over that time and now its common for households with 2 full time earners to be struggling. The argument from people like him is oh we need to keep on doing what we are doing, this was also the argument for remaining.
Sadly for most people in this country what we are doing really isnt working for them and year by year they feel poorer and poorer and struggle more and more while the upper echelons of society seem to get richer and richer.
Things need to change, the brexit vote was a result of this, my diatribe about doing essentials is part of this. Will they work? I really have no idea. However for a lot of this country just carrying on with the same old same old is not an option as all they see from past experience is they will slowly have less and less.
The fact that Brexit was being promoted by precisely the same people (Thatcherite ideologues backed by footloose capital) who had engineered the whole rich get richer while everyone else struggles shenanigans in the first place didn't seem to register with people.
Doesnt matter who was promoting it the fact was while in the eu the bottom half of the country had been sliding into poverty further and further....the argument to keep on as were doing therefore really didnt appeal to them because all that offered them was a continued slide into greater and greater poverty. You can certainly argue that it won't help but then staying in the eu wasn't going to help either so they rolled the dice and took a gamble that just maybe it would and for quite a few it has. People who are actually seeing payrises now whereas before they were condemned to minimum wage for the forseeable future. Oh yes forgot you are a left winger and the only good wage rises for the proles are those they get by hiking minimum wage
I'm sure people are very grateful for their below inflation pay rises.
And when we were in the eu people didnt get below inflation payrises in fact I am damn sure if we hadnt brexited people would be getting the same payrises now as they did then...the square root of fuck all
Real wages are going down currently, whereas when we were in the EU they went up. I don't make any causal claims (I don't think real wages are going down mainly because of Brexit, it is more to do with global energy and food price inflation) but the idea that being in the EU led to lower real wages and leaving the EU has led to higher real wages isn't really supported by the data.
Well if as you say reall wages were going up while we were in the eu strange that most people earning above min wage but lower than 50k a year saw bugger all evidence of it. Real wages were going up for those on min wage due to government mandated pay rises, real wages were certainly going up for company execs. Not so much for people between that. A common refrain from those I know was no pay rise again this year for the xth year running not even cost of living. I even know a couple of people who quit there job and went doing things like shelf stacking because they didn't make enough over minimum wage any more to make the extra stress and responsibilty worth it.
When min wage came in I was earning about 3.5 times it...now I am earning 2.1 times it
On your last point, when the minimum wage was introduced it was set deliberately at a low level because they were worried it might lead to unemployment. Over time it has been increased both in nominal terms and as a fraction of average wages as they have become more confident that it doesn't destroy jobs at a higher level. So it isn't surprising that it has risen relative to your wages and isn't necessarily a sign that your wages have fallen behind.
total actual I am paid now - money was paid in 2003 despite my job getting twice as complex.....500 pounds pre brexit. Changed job 3 times in that time. Looking for a new job now post brexit.....money being offered 10 to 15k more. And no that 500 wasnt adjusted for inflation in 2003 was being paid x....in 2017 last time looked for a new job I was offered x+500. At I went woohoo finally more money than I was earning.
"The police must investigate No. 10 parties!" - The parties are investigated and BJ and others get fined. "Look at the good job the police did! And there's more to come!" - The police don't issue more fines to BJ, but others do get them. "The police have done a horrid job! The top people have got away with it!"
Perhaps the underlings who got done are not a victim of some stitch-up by No. 10 and the police, but victims of the get-Boris campaign?
Then add in Beergate: "The police have investigated! There's nothing to see here! It's all a put-up job by the Mail!" - It turns out that the Labour Party had lied. "Why does it matter? The police investigated?" - More evidence comes out. "Why does it matter? The police investigated? And the Mail's awful!" - The investigation is reopened. "It's a waste of police time to investigate this!"
etc, etc.
You do know that is quite literally the Wail's position reversed. Attacks Labour's push on this - DON'T THEY KNOW THERE'S A WAR ON. Then 10 days of stories piling pressure on the police to do Starmer - one front page literally being TORY PRESSURE TO MAKE THE POLICE ACT. Then Starmer says "I'll quit" and they complain he's trying to pressure the police, then when newss breaks about the Met whitewhash its "WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY".
So you are right, but you're talking about the Tories.
Remember there is a very clear difference between the two sides. We have reams of evidence about Boris and Number 10 breaking the law over and over and over. She prepares a brutal report. Someone leans on the Met to provide cover. Which they do. With a narrow field of investigation. So that now the Gray report will come out and tear Number 10 apart the police have already found Him innocent by simply not investigating the hideous reportage and photos we're about to get. The establishment always looks after its own - if you are a civil servant with a gong you get protected whilst all your staff carry the can.#
If you want to gloat feel free. Not a good luck for the pro-establishment party as people starve.
I don't care if it's the Mail's position, or the opposite of it.
You were in denial over Beergate. I have no idea if Starmer or anyone else there will get a fine - the law appears to be so poorly written that pretty much anything could result. But it was clear the moment that it turned out that Labour had not told the truth about who had been there that the police investigation had not been thorough.
it would be good for you to be consistent.
I am being consistent. There was a prime fascie case against Johnson which the Met now appear to have investigated primarily to sweep under the carpet. There was not one against Starmer, and the "evidence" was not sufficient to suggest the law had been broken.
That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate.
I still think there is nothing to see and expect nobody to get fined. Buit if I'm wrong they fall on their sword and leave the stage. Which is more than can be said for Bonzo and his Clown Car circus. We're going to get the Gray report. Reams of it. Photos and all. And people like you will say "nothing to see here" for the various events the Met haven't even investigated because no fines have been issued.
I'm quite happy with the consistency of my position. Which on all things is apply the rules equally.
I'm actually going to reply again and say that some of the stuff you've written above is rubbish.
"That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate."
Yeah, right. Even Starmer himself cannot say for sure whether he broke the law or not. I am therefore unsure how you can say there is nothing to investigate. Are you a bigger-brained lawyer than Starmer?
"And people like you will say "nothing to see here" "
LOL. No. *You* are the one saying 'nothing to see here' about Durham. See above.
RP is consistent here.
I believe Starmer and Rayner probably broke the letter of the law, and if the law is applied with rigour they must go simply because they said they would. Richard Holden and the Daily Mail and Telegraph railroaded Durham Constabulary into a highly politicised investigation. Based on how they dealt with Cummings the precedent had been set to walk away.
Johnson personally drove a coach and horses through the rules. The Met launched a token case against him. It now transpires that they didn't even look at his more egregious breaches, they ignored the Abba night at number 10! And Case they ignored completely. Mainly Juniors and Women were fined. Cressida Dick's last hurrah was another operational failure.
The Met intervention rather than allowing justice to be served has allowed Johnson to dodge the Gray Report and remain in office. It has worked out so well for him, it looks very like a conspiratorial whitewash. Even his greatest foe in Government was brought down by a cake!
Tory hacks are laughing and they will laugh louder when Starmer gets his Beergate comeuppance. The reality is Team Johnson has taken the rest of us for a ride. And what about his clandestine meeting with Sue Gray last month...?
On what basis have you determined the police didn’t do their job? That you didn’t like the outcome?
AIUI all we know about the ABBA event is that the Met didn’t recommend any FPNs. We don’t know that they ignored it?
I'm with @Mexicanpete. This has been a total establishment stitch-up to save the PM.
It stinks to high heaven.
Evidence please.
It'll come in time.
For a start, Johnson seems to have been taken at his lawyer's word that all these events he attended he considered to be work and therefore was allowed. But social events at work were not allowed. The only event he has been done for is one that is a joke - a cake turned up at the end of a meeting. The other events were massive piss-ups and we've seen some photo evidence and there's more to come no doubt now that only the kids and the women have actually been fined.
But, to be honest, what's the point anymore? I'm tired of it all. He's safe as houses until GE 2024.
Hopefully enough voters are as angry as I am and will not have forgotten by 2024.
The only one I recall seeing pictures of is the garden party - there he was sitting with his wife and a couple of others. Everyone else in the garden appeared to be socially distanced groups. So it’s possible that Boris thought it was ok/ that it was a work meeting / drink with friends (I’ve lost track of what was allowed when).
The zoom quiz he was on zoom from what I recall.
But I’ve never really been interested
Well you should be. Imagine if Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn had led us down this garden path. You would be outraged.
The wagons have been well and truly circled, but by whom is alarming.
Nah. Don’t really care. Both Johnson and Corbyn were unsuitable candidates for PM.
But whether or not he had a cake doesn’t change my view of him.
I really dont get the whole thing about partygate/beergate....politician lies through his teeth....its a dog bites postman style story
Not supposed to do it to Parliament. Very much not. That's one key issue, and still unresolved.
Why should parliament be priveleged to not be lied to when they lie through their teeth to the rest of us?
Does not Parliament count more or less as a court of law? where it is a very bad thing indeed not to tell the truth.....
Still not much from WA. Coalition held 10 of 15. Unless they pick up a couple it is getting hard to see them forming a government. Most likely we won't know for weeks. Postals haven't been counted anywhere either.
Sky has projected the Coalition cannot form another majority government anyway.
So most likely now a hung parliament and coalition talks over the next week or two, with a slim chance of a Labor majority
Yeah. I meant it is difficult to see the Coalition being able to form a Coalition. If that makes any sense. Several of the successful Independents ran to oust sitting Liberals. Would be strange to see them joining them. ScoMo isn't quite dead yet. But the prognosis isn't good.
It’s Charlie’s Coffee and Brunch bar. By the harbour. I’ll get you an espresso
I am following your and Daughter's travel itineraries.
Any moment now I expect to find a picture of you both appearing in my WhatsApp ("Mum - I met someone else who reads PB for hours over a drink. Honestly you both need to get a life.").
Fantastic - we could see our first PB wedding, Leon and Cyclefree JR with Sean T as best man.
@Cyclefree is much more positive on the idea of her daughter meeting @Leon than she was when I suggested it a week ago!
I am preparing myself. Not encouraging it!
Considers the situation of Cyclefree being Leons new mother in law...decides i must be living in one of the stranger universes
We are running a long long way ahead of ourselves......
I mean, do we even know that this @Leon character actually exists. They might be one of these AI / GP3 (or whatever it is) he/she/it is always talking about.
Still not much from WA. Coalition held 10 of 15. Unless they pick up a couple it is getting hard to see them forming a government. Most likely we won't know for weeks. Postals haven't been counted anywhere either.
Sky has projected the Coalition cannot form another majority government anyway.
So most likely now a hung parliament and coalition talks over the next week or two, with a slim chance of a Labor majority
Yeah. I meant it is difficult to see the Coalition being able to form a Coalition. If that makes any sense. Several of the successful Independents ran to oust sitting Liberals. Would be strange to see them joining them. ScoMo isn't quite dead yet. But the prognosis isn't good.
They'd need the backing of a dozen or so independents - it's beyond anything conceivable in this life.
Very early in WA, but ALP ahead in five seats for gains. Indy in another for net loss of 6 for Coalition. Mirroring the State election, as I alluded to earlier. Only about 2% counted, mind. This could swing it however.
I know people regard me as an angry voice and yes I am here far more than I would like to be. But the argument I am having with @bondegezou is symptomatic.
Simply put 40 to 50 years ago a household could live on the wage of one earner. Policy really hasnt changed that much over that time and now its common for households with 2 full time earners to be struggling. The argument from people like him is oh we need to keep on doing what we are doing, this was also the argument for remaining.
Sadly for most people in this country what we are doing really isnt working for them and year by year they feel poorer and poorer and struggle more and more while the upper echelons of society seem to get richer and richer.
Things need to change, the brexit vote was a result of this, my diatribe about doing essentials is part of this. Will they work? I really have no idea. However for a lot of this country just carrying on with the same old same old is not an option as all they see from past experience is they will slowly have less and less.
I don't want to carry on with the same old same old. I don't want to copy Thatcherism, New Labour and austerity. I don't want to keep on doing what we are doing.
But just because change is needed doesn't mean any change is a good idea. I don't see radical libertarianism as the answer. I don't think Brexit has helped the struggling full time earning couple.
It's not the state spending outside of your core functions that has put us in this situation. It's a failure to invest in housing. It's a broader abandonment of Keynesian principles. It's unfettered capitalism and the pursuit of profit at all costs.
Things should change. Saying private money will look after the roads and we shouldn't pay for any post-18 education is not the change we need.
What change have you suggested then as far as I can see absolutely nothing apart from more of the same. I put my money where my mouth was and said what I would change. If you aren't as you claim just advocating carrying on specify what you would change to make things work for the bottom 50%
So, let’s just take the first thing I mentioned, which was investing in housing, i.e. we should build more homes. How is that “more of the same”? House building has been low for decades, for 40+ years.
"The police must investigate No. 10 parties!" - The parties are investigated and BJ and others get fined. "Look at the good job the police did! And there's more to come!" - The police don't issue more fines to BJ, but others do get them. "The police have done a horrid job! The top people have got away with it!"
Perhaps the underlings who got done are not a victim of some stitch-up by No. 10 and the police, but victims of the get-Boris campaign?
Then add in Beergate: "The police have investigated! There's nothing to see here! It's all a put-up job by the Mail!" - It turns out that the Labour Party had lied. "Why does it matter? The police investigated?" - More evidence comes out. "Why does it matter? The police investigated? And the Mail's awful!" - The investigation is reopened. "It's a waste of police time to investigate this!"
etc, etc.
You do know that is quite literally the Wail's position reversed. Attacks Labour's push on this - DON'T THEY KNOW THERE'S A WAR ON. Then 10 days of stories piling pressure on the police to do Starmer - one front page literally being TORY PRESSURE TO MAKE THE POLICE ACT. Then Starmer says "I'll quit" and they complain he's trying to pressure the police, then when newss breaks about the Met whitewhash its "WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY".
So you are right, but you're talking about the Tories.
Remember there is a very clear difference between the two sides. We have reams of evidence about Boris and Number 10 breaking the law over and over and over. She prepares a brutal report. Someone leans on the Met to provide cover. Which they do. With a narrow field of investigation. So that now the Gray report will come out and tear Number 10 apart the police have already found Him innocent by simply not investigating the hideous reportage and photos we're about to get. The establishment always looks after its own - if you are a civil servant with a gong you get protected whilst all your staff carry the can.#
If you want to gloat feel free. Not a good luck for the pro-establishment party as people starve.
I don't care if it's the Mail's position, or the opposite of it.
You were in denial over Beergate. I have no idea if Starmer or anyone else there will get a fine - the law appears to be so poorly written that pretty much anything could result. But it was clear the moment that it turned out that Labour had not told the truth about who had been there that the police investigation had not been thorough.
it would be good for you to be consistent.
I am being consistent. There was a prime fascie case against Johnson which the Met now appear to have investigated primarily to sweep under the carpet. There was not one against Starmer, and the "evidence" was not sufficient to suggest the law had been broken.
That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate.
I still think there is nothing to see and expect nobody to get fined. Buit if I'm wrong they fall on their sword and leave the stage. Which is more than can be said for Bonzo and his Clown Car circus. We're going to get the Gray report. Reams of it. Photos and all. And people like you will say "nothing to see here" for the various events the Met haven't even investigated because no fines have been issued.
I'm quite happy with the consistency of my position. Which on all things is apply the rules equally.
I'm actually going to reply again and say that some of the stuff you've written above is rubbish.
"That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate."
Yeah, right. Even Starmer himself cannot say for sure whether he broke the law or not. I am therefore unsure how you can say there is nothing to investigate. Are you a bigger-brained lawyer than Starmer?
"And people like you will say "nothing to see here" "
LOL. No. *You* are the one saying 'nothing to see here' about Durham. See above.
RP is consistent here.
I believe Starmer and Rayner probably broke the letter of the law, and if the law is applied with rigour they must go simply because they said they would. Richard Holden and the Daily Mail and Telegraph railroaded Durham Constabulary into a highly politicised investigation. Based on how they dealt with Cummings the precedent had been set to walk away.
Johnson personally drove a coach and horses through the rules. The Met launched a token case against him. It now transpires that they didn't even look at his more egregious breaches, they ignored the Abba night at number 10! And Case they ignored completely. Mainly Juniors and Women were fined. Cressida Dick's last hurrah was another operational failure.
The Met intervention rather than allowing justice to be served has allowed Johnson to dodge the Gray Report and remain in office. It has worked out so well for him, it looks very like a conspiratorial whitewash. Even his greatest foe in Government was brought down by a cake!
Tory hacks are laughing and they will laugh louder when Starmer gets his Beergate comeuppance. The reality is Team Johnson has taken the rest of us for a ride. And what about his clandestine meeting with Sue Gray last month...?
On what basis have you determined the police didn’t do their job? That you didn’t like the outcome?
AIUI all we know about the ABBA event is that the Met didn’t recommend any FPNs. We don’t know that they ignored it?
I'm with @Mexicanpete. This has been a total establishment stitch-up to save the PM.
It stinks to high heaven.
Evidence please.
It'll come in time.
For a start, Johnson seems to have been taken at his lawyer's word that all these events he attended he considered to be work and therefore was allowed. But social events at work were not allowed. The only event he has been done for is one that is a joke - a cake turned up at the end of a meeting. The other events were massive piss-ups and we've seen some photo evidence and there's more to come no doubt now that only the kids and the women have actually been fined.
But, to be honest, what's the point anymore? I'm tired of it all. He's safe as houses until GE 2024.
Hopefully enough voters are as angry as I am and will not have forgotten by 2024.
The only one I recall seeing pictures of is the garden party - there he was sitting with his wife and a couple of others. Everyone else in the garden appeared to be socially distanced groups. So it’s possible that Boris thought it was ok/ that it was a work meeting / drink with friends (I’ve lost track of what was allowed when).
The zoom quiz he was on zoom from what I recall.
But I’ve never really been interested
Well you should be. Imagine if Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn had led us down this garden path. You would be outraged.
The wagons have been well and truly circled, but by whom is alarming.
Nah. Don’t really care. Both Johnson and Corbyn were unsuitable candidates for PM.
But whether or not he had a cake doesn’t change my view of him.
I really dont get the whole thing about partygate/beergate....politician lies through his teeth....its a dog bites postman style story
Not supposed to do it to Parliament. Very much not. That's one key issue, and still unresolved.
Why should parliament be priveleged to not be lied to when they lie through their teeth to the rest of us?
AIUI, because it's a formal statement in a formal situation; and also a basic rule of parliamentary procedure. But the contrast was very apparent in my thoughts, if only implicitly.
A bit like lying in a court room? A bit like perjury?
Still not much from WA. Coalition held 10 of 15. Unless they pick up a couple it is getting hard to see them forming a government. Most likely we won't know for weeks. Postals haven't been counted anywhere either.
Sky has projected the Coalition cannot form another majority government anyway.
So most likely now a hung parliament and coalition talks over the next week or two, with a slim chance of a Labor majority
Yeah. I meant it is difficult to see the Coalition being able to form a Coalition. If that makes any sense. Several of the successful Independents ran to oust sitting Liberals. Would be strange to see them joining them. ScoMo isn't quite dead yet. But the prognosis isn't good.
They'd need the backing of a dozen or so independents - it's beyond anything conceivable in this life.
I know people regard me as an angry voice and yes I am here far more than I would like to be. But the argument I am having with @bondegezou is symptomatic.
Simply put 40 to 50 years ago a household could live on the wage of one earner. Policy really hasnt changed that much over that time and now its common for households with 2 full time earners to be struggling. The argument from people like him is oh we need to keep on doing what we are doing, this was also the argument for remaining.
Sadly for most people in this country what we are doing really isnt working for them and year by year they feel poorer and poorer and struggle more and more while the upper echelons of society seem to get richer and richer.
Things need to change, the brexit vote was a result of this, my diatribe about doing essentials is part of this. Will they work? I really have no idea. However for a lot of this country just carrying on with the same old same old is not an option as all they see from past experience is they will slowly have less and less.
I don't want to carry on with the same old same old. I don't want to copy Thatcherism, New Labour and austerity. I don't want to keep on doing what we are doing.
But just because change is needed doesn't mean any change is a good idea. I don't see radical libertarianism as the answer. I don't think Brexit has helped the struggling full time earning couple.
It's not the state spending outside of your core functions that has put us in this situation. It's a failure to invest in housing. It's a broader abandonment of Keynesian principles. It's unfettered capitalism and the pursuit of profit at all costs.
Things should change. Saying private money will look after the roads and we shouldn't pay for any post-18 education is not the change we need.
What change have you suggested then as far as I can see absolutely nothing apart from more of the same. I put my money where my mouth was and said what I would change. If you aren't as you claim just advocating carrying on specify what you would change to make things work for the bottom 50%
So, let’s just take the first thing I mentioned, which was investing in housing, i.e. we should build more homes. How is that “more of the same”? House building has been low for decades, for 40+ years.
Because none of those houses you advocate will ever get built because no major party supports it. I can imagine one of the major parties advocating lets get back to basics for what the state does but no party will support building enough houses because its electoral suicide.
Still not much from WA. Coalition held 10 of 15. Unless they pick up a couple it is getting hard to see them forming a government. Most likely we won't know for weeks. Postals haven't been counted anywhere either.
Sky has projected the Coalition cannot form another majority government anyway.
So most likely now a hung parliament and coalition talks over the next week or two, with a slim chance of a Labor majority
Yeah. I meant it is difficult to see the Coalition being able to form a Coalition. If that makes any sense. Several of the successful Independents ran to oust sitting Liberals. Would be strange to see them joining them. ScoMo isn't quite dead yet. But the prognosis isn't good.
They'd need the backing of a dozen or so independents - it's beyond anything conceivable in this life.
Would Independent 2nd pref make a difference.
What do you mean? I assumed we were talking about forming a government out of the 151 elected MPs.
Yes sadly it appears the Russians are starting to win now, ,zelensky making noises about hell in donbass was a sign,,,our media gone relatively quiet too
Very early in WA, but ALP ahead in five seats for gains. Indy in another for net loss of 6 for Coalition. Mirroring the State election, as I alluded to earlier. Only about 2% counted, mind. This could swing it however.
Labor currently lead in 76 seats, giving a majority of 1. However in some of those WA seats their lead over the Coalition is narrowing https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2022/Results/
A spat now developing between Sue Grays spokesperson and no 10 over who called their meeting
Get Case to investigate this one. No reports to be published until that has been resolved.
Actually you are spot on with sort of thing that now happens. Really have sense Gray is still too critical of senior leadership team incl Big Dog published today, so it needs to be delayed and hollowed out much more than this.
I wouldn’t expect publishing this week at all if betting on it.
I don't know anything about the controversy beyond the Gaurdian article, but surprised that voters are that bothered about the issue, and that they're coming down against banning trans women from women's sport. A mistake to go too heavily on an anti-woke ticket?
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Still not much from WA. Coalition held 10 of 15. Unless they pick up a couple it is getting hard to see them forming a government. Most likely we won't know for weeks. Postals haven't been counted anywhere either.
Sky has projected the Coalition cannot form another majority government anyway.
So most likely now a hung parliament and coalition talks over the next week or two, with a slim chance of a Labor majority
Yeah. I meant it is difficult to see the Coalition being able to form a Coalition. If that makes any sense. Several of the successful Independents ran to oust sitting Liberals. Would be strange to see them joining them. ScoMo isn't quite dead yet. But the prognosis isn't good.
They'd need the backing of a dozen or so independents - it's beyond anything conceivable in this life.
Would Independent 2nd pref make a difference.
What do you mean? I assumed we were talking about forming a government out of the 151 elected MPs.
Greens were supposed to be good for Lab in 2nd pref, but do we know where Indy stand if it’s coalition seats?
Very early in WA, but ALP ahead in five seats for gains. Indy in another for net loss of 6 for Coalition. Mirroring the State election, as I alluded to earlier. Only about 2% counted, mind. This could swing it however.
Labor currently lead in 76 seats, giving a majority of 1. However in some of those WA seats their lead over the Coalition is narrowing https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2022/Results/
Yeah. Labor gaining only 3 in WA now. But all lead by 10%. One government loss to Indy too by smaller margin. Still small numbers. Looks like Albanese is PM.
I don't know anything about the controversy beyond the Gaurdian article, but surprised that voters are that bothered about the issue, and that they're coming down against banning trans women from women's sport. A mistake to go too heavily on an anti-woke ticket?
Warringah is an upper middle class wealthy part of the Sydney urban area Tony Abbott as Coalition candidate already lost to the Independents in 2019, so no surprise an anti trans candidate went down badly there.
A poor pick for the seat, that campaign might work in blue collar areas not in areas full of wealthy graduates
I still maintain that many of these politicians must be secretly hoping that the place will ultimately burn down. They'd then be armed with an excuse for spending money on a shiny, modern replacement.
Itd make more sense. They made a decision, now have reopened and seemingly deferred it (things seem to have progressed bigger all in years) and whilst arguing about moving out was bound to happen (even though it'll be much quicker and cheaper), they wont even agree to the eminently sensible option of moving some of them across the street, which would also surely be quicker and cheaper, or elsewhere nearby.
The whole thing makes me spitting mad.
It makes no sense to do anything other than have them all move out. Rent the QEII centre and set up something there for a couple of years. Re-purpose any empty space in Whitehall as offices.
Why does it even need to exist? The MPs could have shit offices above a Ladbrokes in their constiuencies, debate on Zoom and vote on an app. I don't think we'd be conspicuously less well governed if that were the arrangement,
they would miss the 24 subsidised bars and restaurants, they might even have to buy their own food out of their own pockets.
I don't know anything about the controversy beyond the Gaurdian article, but surprised that voters are that bothered about the issue, and that they're coming down against banning trans women from women's sport. A mistake to go too heavily on an anti-woke ticket?
Or the vote just dropped because the Coalition are crap and the usual infighting over why is underway.
I don't know anything about the controversy beyond the Gaurdian article, but surprised that voters are that bothered about the issue, and that they're coming down against banning trans women from women's sport. A mistake to go too heavily on an anti-woke ticket?
I still maintain that many of these politicians must be secretly hoping that the place will ultimately burn down. They'd then be armed with an excuse for spending money on a shiny, modern replacement.
Itd make more sense. They made a decision, now have reopened and seemingly deferred it (things seem to have progressed bigger all in years) and whilst arguing about moving out was bound to happen (even though it'll be much quicker and cheaper), they wont even agree to the eminently sensible option of moving some of them across the street, which would also surely be quicker and cheaper, or elsewhere nearby.
The whole thing makes me spitting mad.
It makes no sense to do anything other than have them all move out. Rent the QEII centre and set up something there for a couple of years. Re-purpose any empty space in Whitehall as offices.
Why does it even need to exist? The MPs could have shit offices above a Ladbrokes in their constiuencies, debate on Zoom and vote on an app. I don't think we'd be conspicuously less well governed if that were the arrangement,
they would miss the 24 subsidised bars and restaurants, they might even have to buy their own food out of their own pockets.
They also wouldnt get to buy second homes by dipping in the pockets of those that cant buy a first home
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Tell putin to remove the blockade else we nuke moscow is my feeling. It is going to go nuclear sooner or later and we get a first strike in at a time when a good percentage of his missiles probably wont work so will knock out a fair percentage of the actually launchable ones
Very early in WA, but ALP ahead in five seats for gains. Indy in another for net loss of 6 for Coalition. Mirroring the State election, as I alluded to earlier. Only about 2% counted, mind. This could swing it however.
Labor currently lead in 76 seats, giving a majority of 1. However in some of those WA seats their lead over the Coalition is narrowing https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2022/Results/
Yeah. Labor gaining only 3 in WA now. But all lead by 10%. One government loss to Indy too by smaller margin. Still small numbers. Looks like Albanese is PM.
One Tasmania Labor held seat now Coalition ahead too, I agree Albanese is PM but I think in the end he will just fall short of a majority though could still go either way.
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Nothing would be my guess. Who the fuck is going to demine the Odessa approaches while there are Granits flying about and Bayraktars lighting up everything in sight?
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Tell putin to remove the blockade else we nuke moscow is my feeling. It is going to go nuclear sooner or later and we get a first strike in at a time when a good percentage of his missiles probably wont work so will knock out a fair percentage of the actually launchable ones
OK so your solution is nuclear armageddon,,, nice I think we should find more creative solutions then that
I know people regard me as an angry voice and yes I am here far more than I would like to be. But the argument I am having with @bondegezou is symptomatic.
Simply put 40 to 50 years ago a household could live on the wage of one earner. Policy really hasnt changed that much over that time and now its common for households with 2 full time earners to be struggling. The argument from people like him is oh we need to keep on doing what we are doing, this was also the argument for remaining.
Sadly for most people in this country what we are doing really isnt working for them and year by year they feel poorer and poorer and struggle more and more while the upper echelons of society seem to get richer and richer.
Things need to change, the brexit vote was a result of this, my diatribe about doing essentials is part of this. Will they work? I really have no idea. However for a lot of this country just carrying on with the same old same old is not an option as all they see from past experience is they will slowly have less and less.
I don't want to carry on with the same old same old. I don't want to copy Thatcherism, New Labour and austerity. I don't want to keep on doing what we are doing.
But just because change is needed doesn't mean any change is a good idea. I don't see radical libertarianism as the answer. I don't think Brexit has helped the struggling full time earning couple.
It's not the state spending outside of your core functions that has put us in this situation. It's a failure to invest in housing. It's a broader abandonment of Keynesian principles. It's unfettered capitalism and the pursuit of profit at all costs.
Things should change. Saying private money will look after the roads and we shouldn't pay for any post-18 education is not the change we need.
What change have you suggested then as far as I can see absolutely nothing apart from more of the same. I put my money where my mouth was and said what I would change. If you aren't as you claim just advocating carrying on specify what you would change to make things work for the bottom 50%
So, let’s just take the first thing I mentioned, which was investing in housing, i.e. we should build more homes. How is that “more of the same”? House building has been low for decades, for 40+ years.
Because none of those houses you advocate will ever get built because no major party supports it. I can imagine one of the major parties advocating lets get back to basics for what the state does but no party will support building enough houses because its electoral suicide.
We are talking possible to get to not pipe dreams
You were proposing massive cuts in state spending — including no state spending on transport infrastructure, embassies or even debt servicing. That’s a pipe dream!
Still not much from WA. Coalition held 10 of 15. Unless they pick up a couple it is getting hard to see them forming a government. Most likely we won't know for weeks. Postals haven't been counted anywhere either.
Sky has projected the Coalition cannot form another majority government anyway.
So most likely now a hung parliament and coalition talks over the next week or two, with a slim chance of a Labor majority
Yeah. I meant it is difficult to see the Coalition being able to form a Coalition. If that makes any sense. Several of the successful Independents ran to oust sitting Liberals. Would be strange to see them joining them. ScoMo isn't quite dead yet. But the prognosis isn't good.
They'd need the backing of a dozen or so independents - it's beyond anything conceivable in this life.
Would Independent 2nd pref make a difference.
What do you mean? I assumed we were talking about forming a government out of the 151 elected MPs.
Greens were supposed to be good for Lab in 2nd pref, but do we know where Indy stand if it’s coalition seats?
In seats the ALP looks set to gain, they either: 1. held their own vote while the Coalition's fell AND they picked up more second votes (e.g. from the Greens or independents); or 2. they improved their vote while the Coalition's fell BUT they picked up a smaller percentage of second votes.
This makes sense. There were obviously a group of people who had moved away from the coalition who, depending on seat, either more often vote ALP first preference or second preference.
Not much - Russians now focusing everything in a very narrow area. Gains are also a matter of miles - planned retreats and destruction of bridges - so classic defence in depth strategy by the Ukrainians
"The police must investigate No. 10 parties!" - The parties are investigated and BJ and others get fined. "Look at the good job the police did! And there's more to come!" - The police don't issue more fines to BJ, but others do get them. "The police have done a horrid job! The top people have got away with it!"
Perhaps the underlings who got done are not a victim of some stitch-up by No. 10 and the police, but victims of the get-Boris campaign?
Then add in Beergate: "The police have investigated! There's nothing to see here! It's all a put-up job by the Mail!" - It turns out that the Labour Party had lied. "Why does it matter? The police investigated?" - More evidence comes out. "Why does it matter? The police investigated? And the Mail's awful!" - The investigation is reopened. "It's a waste of police time to investigate this!"
etc, etc.
You do know that is quite literally the Wail's position reversed. Attacks Labour's push on this - DON'T THEY KNOW THERE'S A WAR ON. Then 10 days of stories piling pressure on the police to do Starmer - one front page literally being TORY PRESSURE TO MAKE THE POLICE ACT. Then Starmer says "I'll quit" and they complain he's trying to pressure the police, then when newss breaks about the Met whitewhash its "WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY".
So you are right, but you're talking about the Tories.
Remember there is a very clear difference between the two sides. We have reams of evidence about Boris and Number 10 breaking the law over and over and over. She prepares a brutal report. Someone leans on the Met to provide cover. Which they do. With a narrow field of investigation. So that now the Gray report will come out and tear Number 10 apart the police have already found Him innocent by simply not investigating the hideous reportage and photos we're about to get. The establishment always looks after its own - if you are a civil servant with a gong you get protected whilst all your staff carry the can.#
If you want to gloat feel free. Not a good luck for the pro-establishment party as people starve.
I don't care if it's the Mail's position, or the opposite of it.
You were in denial over Beergate. I have no idea if Starmer or anyone else there will get a fine - the law appears to be so poorly written that pretty much anything could result. But it was clear the moment that it turned out that Labour had not told the truth about who had been there that the police investigation had not been thorough.
it would be good for you to be consistent.
I am being consistent. There was a prime fascie case against Johnson which the Met now appear to have investigated primarily to sweep under the carpet. There was not one against Starmer, and the "evidence" was not sufficient to suggest the law had been broken.
That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate.
I still think there is nothing to see and expect nobody to get fined. Buit if I'm wrong they fall on their sword and leave the stage. Which is more than can be said for Bonzo and his Clown Car circus. We're going to get the Gray report. Reams of it. Photos and all. And people like you will say "nothing to see here" for the various events the Met haven't even investigated because no fines have been issued.
I'm quite happy with the consistency of my position. Which on all things is apply the rules equally.
I'm actually going to reply again and say that some of the stuff you've written above is rubbish.
"That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate."
Yeah, right. Even Starmer himself cannot say for sure whether he broke the law or not. I am therefore unsure how you can say there is nothing to investigate. Are you a bigger-brained lawyer than Starmer?
"And people like you will say "nothing to see here" "
LOL. No. *You* are the one saying 'nothing to see here' about Durham. See above.
RP is consistent here.
I believe Starmer and Rayner probably broke the letter of the law, and if the law is applied with rigour they must go simply because they said they would. Richard Holden and the Daily Mail and Telegraph railroaded Durham Constabulary into a highly politicised investigation. Based on how they dealt with Cummings the precedent had been set to walk away.
Johnson personally drove a coach and horses through the rules. The Met launched a token case against him. It now transpires that they didn't even look at his more egregious breaches, they ignored the Abba night at number 10! And Case they ignored completely. Mainly Juniors and Women were fined. Cressida Dick's last hurrah was another operational failure.
The Met intervention rather than allowing justice to be served has allowed Johnson to dodge the Gray Report and remain in office. It has worked out so well for him, it looks very like a conspiratorial whitewash. Even his greatest foe in Government was brought down by a cake!
Tory hacks are laughing and they will laugh louder when Starmer gets his Beergate comeuppance. The reality is Team Johnson has taken the rest of us for a ride. And what about his clandestine meeting with Sue Gray last month...?
On what basis have you determined the police didn’t do their job? That you didn’t like the outcome?
AIUI all we know about the ABBA event is that the Met didn’t recommend any FPNs. We don’t know that they ignored it?
I'm with @Mexicanpete. This has been a total establishment stitch-up to save the PM.
It stinks to high heaven.
Evidence please.
It'll come in time.
For a start, Johnson seems to have been taken at his lawyer's word that all these events he attended he considered to be work and therefore was allowed. But social events at work were not allowed. The only event he has been done for is one that is a joke - a cake turned up at the end of a meeting. The other events were massive piss-ups and we've seen some photo evidence and there's more to come no doubt now that only the kids and the women have actually been fined.
But, to be honest, what's the point anymore? I'm tired of it all. He's safe as houses until GE 2024.
Hopefully enough voters are as angry as I am and will not have forgotten by 2024.
The only one I recall seeing pictures of is the garden party - there he was sitting with his wife and a couple of others. Everyone else in the garden appeared to be socially distanced groups. So it’s possible that Boris thought it was ok/ that it was a work meeting / drink with friends (I’ve lost track of what was allowed when).
The zoom quiz he was on zoom from what I recall.
But I’ve never really been interested
Well you should be. Imagine if Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn had led us down this garden path. You would be outraged.
The wagons have been well and truly circled, but by whom is alarming.
Nah. Don’t really care. Both Johnson and Corbyn were unsuitable candidates for PM.
But whether or not he had a cake doesn’t change my view of him.
I really dont get the whole thing about partygate/beergate....politician lies through his teeth....its a dog bites postman style story
Not supposed to do it to Parliament. Very much not. That's one key issue, and still unresolved.
Why should parliament be priveleged to not be lied to when they lie through their teeth to the rest of us?
AIUI, because it's a formal statement in a formal situation; and also a basic rule of parliamentary procedure. But the contrast was very apparent in my thoughts, if only implicitly.
A bit like lying in a court room? A bit like perjury?
Well, quite. Though somehow different from the rest of us even so.
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Nothing, unless you can persuade President Biden to send in the US Navy as convoy escorts and risk ww3. It is not enough to persuade Putin to allow freighters to dock because the seas are heavily mined and Ukraine has no minesweepers, aiui.
I know people regard me as an angry voice and yes I am here far more than I would like to be. But the argument I am having with @bondegezou is symptomatic.
Simply put 40 to 50 years ago a household could live on the wage of one earner. Policy really hasnt changed that much over that time and now its common for households with 2 full time earners to be struggling. The argument from people like him is oh we need to keep on doing what we are doing, this was also the argument for remaining.
Sadly for most people in this country what we are doing really isnt working for them and year by year they feel poorer and poorer and struggle more and more while the upper echelons of society seem to get richer and richer.
Things need to change, the brexit vote was a result of this, my diatribe about doing essentials is part of this. Will they work? I really have no idea. However for a lot of this country just carrying on with the same old same old is not an option as all they see from past experience is they will slowly have less and less.
I don't want to carry on with the same old same old. I don't want to copy Thatcherism, New Labour and austerity. I don't want to keep on doing what we are doing.
But just because change is needed doesn't mean any change is a good idea. I don't see radical libertarianism as the answer. I don't think Brexit has helped the struggling full time earning couple.
It's not the state spending outside of your core functions that has put us in this situation. It's a failure to invest in housing. It's a broader abandonment of Keynesian principles. It's unfettered capitalism and the pursuit of profit at all costs.
Things should change. Saying private money will look after the roads and we shouldn't pay for any post-18 education is not the change we need.
What change have you suggested then as far as I can see absolutely nothing apart from more of the same. I put my money where my mouth was and said what I would change. If you aren't as you claim just advocating carrying on specify what you would change to make things work for the bottom 50%
So, let’s just take the first thing I mentioned, which was investing in housing, i.e. we should build more homes. How is that “more of the same”? House building has been low for decades, for 40+ years.
Because none of those houses you advocate will ever get built because no major party supports it. I can imagine one of the major parties advocating lets get back to basics for what the state does but no party will support building enough houses because its electoral suicide.
We are talking possible to get to not pipe dreams
You were proposing massive cuts in state spending — including no state spending on transport infrastructure, embassies or even debt servicing. That’s a pipe dream!
I didnt say no spending on any of those things I said do the essentials fully then spend whats left on our next choices. I would imaging debt servicing, embassies come next then if money is left over transport infrastructure.
Your view presupposes the essentials being fully funded will cost us everything we bring in from taxation. If that is truly the case then yes we need to trim what the state does quite drastically
I don't know anything about the controversy beyond the Gaurdian article, but surprised that voters are that bothered about the issue, and that they're coming down against banning trans women from women's sport. A mistake to go too heavily on an anti-woke ticket?
Warringah is an upper middle class wealthy part of the Sydney urban area Tony Abbott as Coalition candidate already lost to the Independents in 2019, so no surprise an anti trans candidate went down badly there.
A poor pick for the seat, that campaign might work in blue collar areas not in areas full of wealthy graduates
8.4% swing to Labor on Primary in WA. Majority back on.
The Russian military has claimed to have destroyed a large consignment of Western arms destined for Ukrainian forces defending the Donbas.
The defence ministry alleged that the strike in the north-western region of Zhytomyr, using sea-launched Kalibr cruise missiles, took out a "large batch" of weapons and military equipment delivered from the US and European countries.
The ministry also claimed that Russia had struck numerous Ukrainian command posts, fuel storage facilities near the city of Odesa and shot down two Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft and 14 drones. The reports could not be independently verified.
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Phillips OBrien was tweeting yesterday that actually there's no real much sign of a breakthrough from RU. Gained a bit around Popasna, but questions whether they can hold it.
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
Yes sadly it appears the Russians are starting to win now, ,zelensky making noises about hell in donbass was a sign,,,our media gone relatively quiet too
I'm not convinced. We will see in next couple of weeks. Loss rates for RU seem high by all accounts, they will run out of troops prepared to die pointlessly for Putin at some point this summer.
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Nothing, unless you can persuade President Biden to send in the US Navy as convoy escorts and risk ww3. It is not enough to persuade Putin to allow freighters to dock because the seas are heavily mined and Ukraine has no minesweepers, aiui.
Biden is obviously fine tuning the support for Ukraine. Giving them just enough to keep them fighting and the Russians bleeding but not enough to allow them to win so VVP gets butthurt and throws the Risk board at the wall.
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Tell putin to remove the blockade else we nuke moscow is my feeling. It is going to go nuclear sooner or later and we get a first strike in at a time when a good percentage of his missiles probably wont work so will knock out a fair percentage of the actually launchable ones
OK so your solution is nuclear armageddon,,, nice I think we should find more creative solutions then that
If you believe the ukraine was is going to go nuclear anyway better to hit first. Simple as that. I do believe it will because I do not trust russian sanity.
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
Was known as the "Deep North". Got a Labor majority State government mind. Has had for a while.
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Nothing, unless you can persuade President Biden to send in the US Navy as convoy escorts and risk ww3. It is not enough to persuade Putin to allow freighters to dock because the seas are heavily mined and Ukraine has no minesweepers, aiui.
Biden is obviously fine tuning the support for Ukraine. Giving them just enough to keep them fighting and the Russians bleeding but not enough to allow them to win so VVP gets butthurt and throws the Risk board at the wall.
Thank the gods it is him and not Trump making these calls.
Trump would either have allowed Vlad to take the whole lot without lifting a finger, or seen something on Fox News that irritated him and started asking how to turn the launch code key.
Notwithstanding the initial breathless response from a few tory cheerleaders that the single PM fine meant he was free, in fact the opposite may be developing. There are at least 3 perils the PM faces over the next month:
1. Publication of the Sue Gray report and verbatim exchanges with No. 10. This could be grim for the PM.
2. The two by-election results
3. The new whiff of cover-up. Far from exonerating the PM and drawing a line under it there's a sense that this merely adds to the stench. It's rather like the Prince Andrew saga: the more you hope it goes away, the greater the foul smell grows.
I have long held the view that Johnson will survive until the next General Election. I am less sure now than at anytime since 2019. I think he is entering his most perilous period.
The Russian military has claimed to have destroyed a large consignment of Western arms destined for Ukrainian forces defending the Donbas.
The defence ministry alleged that the strike in the north-western region of Zhytomyr, using sea-launched Kalibr cruise missiles, took out a "large batch" of weapons and military equipment delivered from the US and European countries.
The ministry also claimed that Russia had struck numerous Ukrainian command posts, fuel storage facilities near the city of Odesa and shot down two Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft and 14 drones. The reports could not be independently verified.
I believe that Russian has now claimed to have shot down about 400% of the Ukrainian air force.
Now throughout history claims of air losses have always been higher than reality but I wouldn't put much trust in anything Russia claimed.
Musk really is a little bully, isn't he? The only free speech he cares about is his own.
Tesla, not Twitter, so unless it is a front, he might have something else planned. Forcing overrides of state laws?
Musk’s takeover of Twitter, has inadvertently turned Tesla into a much more politicised company. It’s no surprise he needs to beef up the legal team there.
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
Was known as the "Deep North". Got a Labor majority State government mind. Has had for a while.
Surprising. Is that because most of the Queensland population is in Brisbane or something? On the Poll Bludger thing, it's massively blue/LNP.
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
You should try the Northern Territory. It’s like pre Civil War Louisiana
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Tell putin to remove the blockade else we nuke moscow is my feeling. It is going to go nuclear sooner or later and we get a first strike in at a time when a good percentage of his missiles probably wont work so will knock out a fair percentage of the actually launchable ones
OK so your solution is nuclear armageddon,,, nice I think we should find more creative solutions then that
If you believe the ukraine was is going to go nuclear anyway better to hit first. Simple as that. I do believe it will because I do not trust russian sanity.
Let me turn the question around somewhat.
1) If you believe the russians were going to go full nuclear would you strike first
2) What percentage of certainty of them going full nuclear would you need to trigger a premptive strike assuming the answer to 1) is yes
3) If the answer to one is no then really why bother having the damn things as they are now merely a revenge weapon after your country is a nuclear desert
I know people regard me as an angry voice and yes I am here far more than I would like to be. But the argument I am having with @bondegezou is symptomatic.
Simply put 40 to 50 years ago a household could live on the wage of one earner. Policy really hasnt changed that much over that time and now its common for households with 2 full time earners to be struggling. The argument from people like him is oh we need to keep on doing what we are doing, this was also the argument for remaining.
Sadly for most people in this country what we are doing really isnt working for them and year by year they feel poorer and poorer and struggle more and more while the upper echelons of society seem to get richer and richer.
Things need to change, the brexit vote was a result of this, my diatribe about doing essentials is part of this. Will they work? I really have no idea. However for a lot of this country just carrying on with the same old same old is not an option as all they see from past experience is they will slowly have less and less.
I don't want to carry on with the same old same old. I don't want to copy Thatcherism, New Labour and austerity. I don't want to keep on doing what we are doing.
But just because change is needed doesn't mean any change is a good idea. I don't see radical libertarianism as the answer. I don't think Brexit has helped the struggling full time earning couple.
It's not the state spending outside of your core functions that has put us in this situation. It's a failure to invest in housing. It's a broader abandonment of Keynesian principles. It's unfettered capitalism and the pursuit of profit at all costs.
Things should change. Saying private money will look after the roads and we shouldn't pay for any post-18 education is not the change we need.
What change have you suggested then as far as I can see absolutely nothing apart from more of the same. I put my money where my mouth was and said what I would change. If you aren't as you claim just advocating carrying on specify what you would change to make things work for the bottom 50%
So, let’s just take the first thing I mentioned, which was investing in housing, i.e. we should build more homes. How is that “more of the same”? House building has been low for decades, for 40+ years.
Because none of those houses you advocate will ever get built because no major party supports it. I can imagine one of the major parties advocating lets get back to basics for what the state does but no party will support building enough houses because its electoral suicide.
We are talking possible to get to not pipe dreams
You were proposing massive cuts in state spending — including no state spending on transport infrastructure, embassies or even debt servicing. That’s a pipe dream!
I didnt say no spending on any of those things I said do the essentials fully then spend whats left on our next choices. I would imaging debt servicing, embassies come next then if money is left over transport infrastructure.
Your view presupposes the essentials being fully funded will cost us everything we bring in from taxation. If that is truly the case then yes we need to trim what the state does quite drastically
You refuse to even engage with my answer because it is, you say, a “pipe dream”, but your proposal, which includes possibly defaulting on our debt, that is clearly way outside the Overton window, does count…?
If you want to discuss these topics, you’ve got to offer a modicum of coherence.
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
The Russian military has claimed to have destroyed a large consignment of Western arms destined for Ukrainian forces defending the Donbas.
The defence ministry alleged that the strike in the north-western region of Zhytomyr, using sea-launched Kalibr cruise missiles, took out a "large batch" of weapons and military equipment delivered from the US and European countries.
The ministry also claimed that Russia had struck numerous Ukrainian command posts, fuel storage facilities near the city of Odesa and shot down two Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft and 14 drones. The reports could not be independently verified.
Good for them and their propoganda, except that there are no reports of explosions in Zhytomyr Region.
"The police must investigate No. 10 parties!" - The parties are investigated and BJ and others get fined. "Look at the good job the police did! And there's more to come!" - The police don't issue more fines to BJ, but others do get them. "The police have done a horrid job! The top people have got away with it!"
Perhaps the underlings who got done are not a victim of some stitch-up by No. 10 and the police, but victims of the get-Boris campaign?
Then add in Beergate: "The police have investigated! There's nothing to see here! It's all a put-up job by the Mail!" - It turns out that the Labour Party had lied. "Why does it matter? The police investigated?" - More evidence comes out. "Why does it matter? The police investigated? And the Mail's awful!" - The investigation is reopened. "It's a waste of police time to investigate this!"
etc, etc.
You do know that is quite literally the Wail's position reversed. Attacks Labour's push on this - DON'T THEY KNOW THERE'S A WAR ON. Then 10 days of stories piling pressure on the police to do Starmer - one front page literally being TORY PRESSURE TO MAKE THE POLICE ACT. Then Starmer says "I'll quit" and they complain he's trying to pressure the police, then when newss breaks about the Met whitewhash its "WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY".
So you are right, but you're talking about the Tories.
Remember there is a very clear difference between the two sides. We have reams of evidence about Boris and Number 10 breaking the law over and over and over. She prepares a brutal report. Someone leans on the Met to provide cover. Which they do. With a narrow field of investigation. So that now the Gray report will come out and tear Number 10 apart the police have already found Him innocent by simply not investigating the hideous reportage and photos we're about to get. The establishment always looks after its own - if you are a civil servant with a gong you get protected whilst all your staff carry the can.#
If you want to gloat feel free. Not a good luck for the pro-establishment party as people starve.
I don't care if it's the Mail's position, or the opposite of it.
You were in denial over Beergate. I have no idea if Starmer or anyone else there will get a fine - the law appears to be so poorly written that pretty much anything could result. But it was clear the moment that it turned out that Labour had not told the truth about who had been there that the police investigation had not been thorough.
it would be good for you to be consistent.
I am being consistent. There was a prime fascie case against Johnson which the Met now appear to have investigated primarily to sweep under the carpet. There was not one against Starmer, and the "evidence" was not sufficient to suggest the law had been broken.
That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate.
I still think there is nothing to see and expect nobody to get fined. Buit if I'm wrong they fall on their sword and leave the stage. Which is more than can be said for Bonzo and his Clown Car circus. We're going to get the Gray report. Reams of it. Photos and all. And people like you will say "nothing to see here" for the various events the Met haven't even investigated because no fines have been issued.
I'm quite happy with the consistency of my position. Which on all things is apply the rules equally.
I'm actually going to reply again and say that some of the stuff you've written above is rubbish.
"That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate."
Yeah, right. Even Starmer himself cannot say for sure whether he broke the law or not. I am therefore unsure how you can say there is nothing to investigate. Are you a bigger-brained lawyer than Starmer?
"And people like you will say "nothing to see here" "
LOL. No. *You* are the one saying 'nothing to see here' about Durham. See above.
RP is consistent here.
I believe Starmer and Rayner probably broke the letter of the law, and if the law is applied with rigour they must go simply because they said they would. Richard Holden and the Daily Mail and Telegraph railroaded Durham Constabulary into a highly politicised investigation. Based on how they dealt with Cummings the precedent had been set to walk away.
Johnson personally drove a coach and horses through the rules. The Met launched a token case against him. It now transpires that they didn't even look at his more egregious breaches, they ignored the Abba night at number 10! And Case they ignored completely. Mainly Juniors and Women were fined. Cressida Dick's last hurrah was another operational failure.
The Met intervention rather than allowing justice to be served has allowed Johnson to dodge the Gray Report and remain in office. It has worked out so well for him, it looks very like a conspiratorial whitewash. Even his greatest foe in Government was brought down by a cake!
Tory hacks are laughing and they will laugh louder when Starmer gets his Beergate comeuppance. The reality is Team Johnson has taken the rest of us for a ride. And what about his clandestine meeting with Sue Gray last month...?
On what basis have you determined the police didn’t do their job? That you didn’t like the outcome?
AIUI all we know about the ABBA event is that the Met didn’t recommend any FPNs. We don’t know that they ignored it?
I'm with @Mexicanpete. This has been a total establishment stitch-up to save the PM.
It stinks to high heaven.
Evidence please.
It'll come in time.
For a start, Johnson seems to have been taken at his lawyer's word that all these events he attended he considered to be work and therefore was allowed. But social events at work were not allowed. The only event he has been done for is one that is a joke - a cake turned up at the end of a meeting. The other events were massive piss-ups and we've seen some photo evidence and there's more to come no doubt now that only the kids and the women have actually been fined.
But, to be honest, what's the point anymore? I'm tired of it all. He's safe as houses until GE 2024.
Hopefully enough voters are as angry as I am and will not have forgotten by 2024.
The only one I recall seeing pictures of is the garden party - there he was sitting with his wife and a couple of others. Everyone else in the garden appeared to be socially distanced groups. So it’s possible that Boris thought it was ok/ that it was a work meeting / drink with friends (I’ve lost track of what was allowed when).
The zoom quiz he was on zoom from what I recall.
But I’ve never really been interested
Well you should be. Imagine if Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn had led us down this garden path. You would be outraged.
The wagons have been well and truly circled, but by whom is alarming.
Nah. Don’t really care. Both Johnson and Corbyn were unsuitable candidates for PM.
But whether or not he had a cake doesn’t change my view of him.
I really dont get the whole thing about partygate/beergate....politician lies through his teeth....its a dog bites postman style story
Not supposed to do it to Parliament. Very much not. That's one key issue, and still unresolved.
Why should parliament be priveleged to not be lied to when they lie through their teeth to the rest of us?
AIUI, because it's a formal statement in a formal situation; and also a basic rule of parliamentary procedure. But the contrast was very apparent in my thoughts, if only implicitly.
A bit like lying in a court room? A bit like perjury?
Well, quite. Though somehow different from the rest of us even so.
It strikes me Parliament try’s a lot to be like a court room. I suspect not respecting norms like perjury the whole thing doesn’t work.
I know a lot of Boris fans on here will disagree with me, but it’s very much like Boris putting himself before his party in disrespecting such norms, which a lot of former leaders and hopefully future leaders just won’t do
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
You should try the Northern Territory. It’s like pre Civil War Louisiana
Labor has won the Northern Territory tonight, it has the highest aborigine vote in Australia. Queensland however has again voted for the Coalition against the trend overall in Australia
"The police must investigate No. 10 parties!" - The parties are investigated and BJ and others get fined. "Look at the good job the police did! And there's more to come!" - The police don't issue more fines to BJ, but others do get them. "The police have done a horrid job! The top people have got away with it!"
Perhaps the underlings who got done are not a victim of some stitch-up by No. 10 and the police, but victims of the get-Boris campaign?
Then add in Beergate: "The police have investigated! There's nothing to see here! It's all a put-up job by the Mail!" - It turns out that the Labour Party had lied. "Why does it matter? The police investigated?" - More evidence comes out. "Why does it matter? The police investigated? And the Mail's awful!" - The investigation is reopened. "It's a waste of police time to investigate this!"
etc, etc.
You do know that is quite literally the Wail's position reversed. Attacks Labour's push on this - DON'T THEY KNOW THERE'S A WAR ON. Then 10 days of stories piling pressure on the police to do Starmer - one front page literally being TORY PRESSURE TO MAKE THE POLICE ACT. Then Starmer says "I'll quit" and they complain he's trying to pressure the police, then when newss breaks about the Met whitewhash its "WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY".
So you are right, but you're talking about the Tories.
Remember there is a very clear difference between the two sides. We have reams of evidence about Boris and Number 10 breaking the law over and over and over. She prepares a brutal report. Someone leans on the Met to provide cover. Which they do. With a narrow field of investigation. So that now the Gray report will come out and tear Number 10 apart the police have already found Him innocent by simply not investigating the hideous reportage and photos we're about to get. The establishment always looks after its own - if you are a civil servant with a gong you get protected whilst all your staff carry the can.#
If you want to gloat feel free. Not a good luck for the pro-establishment party as people starve.
I don't care if it's the Mail's position, or the opposite of it.
You were in denial over Beergate. I have no idea if Starmer or anyone else there will get a fine - the law appears to be so poorly written that pretty much anything could result. But it was clear the moment that it turned out that Labour had not told the truth about who had been there that the police investigation had not been thorough.
it would be good for you to be consistent.
I am being consistent. There was a prime fascie case against Johnson which the Met now appear to have investigated primarily to sweep under the carpet. There was not one against Starmer, and the "evidence" was not sufficient to suggest the law had been broken.
That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate.
I still think there is nothing to see and expect nobody to get fined. Buit if I'm wrong they fall on their sword and leave the stage. Which is more than can be said for Bonzo and his Clown Car circus. We're going to get the Gray report. Reams of it. Photos and all. And people like you will say "nothing to see here" for the various events the Met haven't even investigated because no fines have been issued.
I'm quite happy with the consistency of my position. Which on all things is apply the rules equally.
I'm actually going to reply again and say that some of the stuff you've written above is rubbish.
"That Durham plod are now reinvestigating is as much because it became politically untenable for them not to do so as because there is anything to investigate."
Yeah, right. Even Starmer himself cannot say for sure whether he broke the law or not. I am therefore unsure how you can say there is nothing to investigate. Are you a bigger-brained lawyer than Starmer?
"And people like you will say "nothing to see here" "
LOL. No. *You* are the one saying 'nothing to see here' about Durham. See above.
RP is consistent here.
I believe Starmer and Rayner probably broke the letter of the law, and if the law is applied with rigour they must go simply because they said they would. Richard Holden and the Daily Mail and Telegraph railroaded Durham Constabulary into a highly politicised investigation. Based on how they dealt with Cummings the precedent had been set to walk away.
Johnson personally drove a coach and horses through the rules. The Met launched a token case against him. It now transpires that they didn't even look at his more egregious breaches, they ignored the Abba night at number 10! And Case they ignored completely. Mainly Juniors and Women were fined. Cressida Dick's last hurrah was another operational failure.
The Met intervention rather than allowing justice to be served has allowed Johnson to dodge the Gray Report and remain in office. It has worked out so well for him, it looks very like a conspiratorial whitewash. Even his greatest foe in Government was brought down by a cake!
Tory hacks are laughing and they will laugh louder when Starmer gets his Beergate comeuppance. The reality is Team Johnson has taken the rest of us for a ride. And what about his clandestine meeting with Sue Gray last month...?
That does not appear to address the point I'm making about RP being inconsistent.
@RochdalePioneers has said all along Beergate was a poor judgement call by the police, and despite what the Met have adjudicated, Johnson attended parties and as such misled the House.
RP has been straight down the fairway consistent.
Oh really?
My *impression* of what he had been saying is that the police investigated it and therefore there was no reason to reopen the case. That was clearly rubbish after it turned out the police had not had the full information. As I recall, he consistently said that the full information was irrelevant. For reasons.
I don't know anything about the controversy beyond the Gaurdian article, but surprised that voters are that bothered about the issue, and that they're coming down against banning trans women from women's sport. A mistake to go too heavily on an anti-woke ticket?
ALBA and the Family Party didn't score very well in the Scottish local elections.
I know people regard me as an angry voice and yes I am here far more than I would like to be. But the argument I am having with @bondegezou is symptomatic.
Simply put 40 to 50 years ago a household could live on the wage of one earner. Policy really hasnt changed that much over that time and now its common for households with 2 full time earners to be struggling. The argument from people like him is oh we need to keep on doing what we are doing, this was also the argument for remaining.
Sadly for most people in this country what we are doing really isnt working for them and year by year they feel poorer and poorer and struggle more and more while the upper echelons of society seem to get richer and richer.
Things need to change, the brexit vote was a result of this, my diatribe about doing essentials is part of this. Will they work? I really have no idea. However for a lot of this country just carrying on with the same old same old is not an option as all they see from past experience is they will slowly have less and less.
I don't want to carry on with the same old same old. I don't want to copy Thatcherism, New Labour and austerity. I don't want to keep on doing what we are doing.
But just because change is needed doesn't mean any change is a good idea. I don't see radical libertarianism as the answer. I don't think Brexit has helped the struggling full time earning couple.
It's not the state spending outside of your core functions that has put us in this situation. It's a failure to invest in housing. It's a broader abandonment of Keynesian principles. It's unfettered capitalism and the pursuit of profit at all costs.
Things should change. Saying private money will look after the roads and we shouldn't pay for any post-18 education is not the change we need.
What change have you suggested then as far as I can see absolutely nothing apart from more of the same. I put my money where my mouth was and said what I would change. If you aren't as you claim just advocating carrying on specify what you would change to make things work for the bottom 50%
So, let’s just take the first thing I mentioned, which was investing in housing, i.e. we should build more homes. How is that “more of the same”? House building has been low for decades, for 40+ years.
Because none of those houses you advocate will ever get built because no major party supports it. I can imagine one of the major parties advocating lets get back to basics for what the state does but no party will support building enough houses because its electoral suicide.
We are talking possible to get to not pipe dreams
You were proposing massive cuts in state spending — including no state spending on transport infrastructure, embassies or even debt servicing. That’s a pipe dream!
I didnt say no spending on any of those things I said do the essentials fully then spend whats left on our next choices. I would imaging debt servicing, embassies come next then if money is left over transport infrastructure.
Your view presupposes the essentials being fully funded will cost us everything we bring in from taxation. If that is truly the case then yes we need to trim what the state does quite drastically
You refuse to even engage with my answer because it is, you say, a “pipe dream”, but your proposal, which includes possibly defaulting on our debt, that is clearly way outside the Overton window, does count…?
If you want to discuss these topics, you’ve got to offer a modicum of coherence.
As I said I expect the essentials not to cost everything we take in tax. If they would then we are already in an unsustainable position and we may as well give up on having good services that count and help people
Not much - Russians now focusing everything in a very narrow area. Gains are also a matter of miles - planned retreats and destruction of bridges - so classic defence in depth strategy by the Ukrainians
What does a “victory” even look like, for Putin, now?
Let’s say they conquer (and destroy) east Ukraine. They then have to rebuild it (with the Russian economy in free fall) and presumably occupy it - a land turned entirely hostile to them, rife with insurrection and partisan attacks on the Russian forces, Meanwhile more “fires” will occur across Russia
At the same time, the EU will be weaning itself off Russian oil and gas, and Russia will edge towards bankruptcy
I don’t see any route out of this that isn’t total defeat for Russia - and that’s even if they “win”
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Tell putin to remove the blockade else we nuke moscow is my feeling. It is going to go nuclear sooner or later and we get a first strike in at a time when a good percentage of his missiles probably wont work so will knock out a fair percentage of the actually launchable ones
OK so your solution is nuclear armageddon,,, nice I think we should find more creative solutions then that
If you believe the ukraine was is going to go nuclear anyway better to hit first. Simple as that. I do believe it will because I do not trust russian sanity.
Even in the ridiculously unlikely scenario of the West conducting a nuclear first strike, it would not be on Moscow.
Notwithstanding the initial breathless response from a few tory cheerleaders that the single PM fine meant he was free, in fact the opposite may be developing. There are at least 3 perils the PM faces over the next month:
1. Publication of the Sue Gray report and verbatim exchanges with No. 10. This could be grim for the PM.
2. The two by-election results
3. The new whiff of cover-up. Far from exonerating the PM and drawing a line under it there's a sense that this merely adds to the stench. It's rather like the Prince Andrew saga: the more you hope it goes away, the greater the foul smell grows.
I have long held the view that Johnson will survive until the next General Election. I am less sure now than at anytime since 2019. I think he is entering his most perilous period.
Isn't there a Select Committee inquiry on hold till after Gray?
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
Was known as the "Deep North". Got a Labor majority State government mind. Has had for a while.
Surprising. Is that because most of the Queensland population is in Brisbane or something? On the Poll Bludger thing, it's massively blue/LNP.
Dunno. Contrast with NSW. Which has had a right of centre State government for some years. Doesn't automatically correlate. Doesn't in Canada either. Don't know about Oz. But in Canada, certainly, the Parties aren't the same things locally as Federally.
It's the usual Russian playbook. Start off with an ill disciplined bloodbath, slowly adapt and then grind out a grim win. It's like they are managed by Neil Warnock.
Question is what do we do about the blockade of Ukraine grain which could cause starvation in some of the developing countries
Tell putin to remove the blockade else we nuke moscow is my feeling. It is going to go nuclear sooner or later and we get a first strike in at a time when a good percentage of his missiles probably wont work so will knock out a fair percentage of the actually launchable ones
OK so your solution is nuclear armageddon,,, nice I think we should find more creative solutions then that
If you believe the ukraine was is going to go nuclear anyway better to hit first. Simple as that. I do believe it will because I do not trust russian sanity.
Even in the ridiculously unlikely scenario of the West conducting a nuclear first strike, it would not be on Moscow.
Well probably not....I just have a different view on mad I guess. To me its better that other nuclear powers think we will do a first strike if we believe they are likely to launch. I would rather deter them from launching in the first place than say if you do launch we will fuck you up
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
Was known as the "Deep North". Got a Labor majority State government mind. Has had for a while.
Surprising. Is that because most of the Queensland population is in Brisbane or something? On the Poll Bludger thing, it's massively blue/LNP.
IIRC Brisbane's proportion of the Queensland population is significantly less than Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth are of their state's population.
Although why 'outer' Queensland is relatively more attractive than 'outer' NSW or 'outer' Vic I don't know.
I imagine that 'outer' WA and 'outer' SA have inhospitable climates and terrain.
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
You should try the Northern Territory. It’s like pre Civil War Louisiana
Labor has won the Northern Territory tonight, it has the highest aborigine vote in Australia. Queensland however has again voted for the Coalition against the trend overall in Australia
I meant more in the *interesting attitudes* you can hear, rather than the voting complexion
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
Was known as the "Deep North". Got a Labor majority State government mind. Has had for a while.
Surprising. Is that because most of the Queensland population is in Brisbane or something? On the Poll Bludger thing, it's massively blue/LNP.
Dunno. Contrast with NSW. Which has had a right of centre State government for some years. Doesn't automatically correlate. Doesn't in Canada either. Don't know about Oz. But in Canada, certainly, the Parties aren't the same things locally as Federally.
Of the 3 largest states by population in Australia, NSW is the swing region in Australia Federally, leans Coalition at state level.
Queensland leans Coalition Federally, less so at state level. Victoria is Labor Federally and at state level
Notwithstanding the initial breathless response from a few tory cheerleaders that the single PM fine meant he was free, in fact the opposite may be developing. There are at least 3 perils the PM faces over the next month:
1. Publication of the Sue Gray report and verbatim exchanges with No. 10. This could be grim for the PM.
2. The two by-election results
3. The new whiff of cover-up. Far from exonerating the PM and drawing a line under it there's a sense that this merely adds to the stench. It's rather like the Prince Andrew saga: the more you hope it goes away, the greater the foul smell grows.
I have long held the view that Johnson will survive until the next General Election. I am less sure now than at anytime since 2019. I think he is entering his most perilous period.
Boris won't go of his own volition; that much is clear. And the Tory MPs are now in full-on Boris worship - hailing him as an invincible political superman. Difficult to see what could do for Boris under these circumstances.
Musk really is a little bully, isn't he? The only free speech he cares about is his own.
Tesla, not Twitter, so unless it is a front, he might have something else planned. Forcing overrides of state laws?
Musk’s takeover of Twitter, has inadvertently turned Tesla into a much more politicised company. It’s no surprise he needs to beef up the legal team there.
It'll be interesting to see how Tesla shareholders' money can be spent on personal legal quests by Musk. I can imagine if the perceived slight is against Tesla, that'd be fine. If it's against Musk himself, how much can he claim that a slight against him affects Tesla enough for him to use Tesla's lawyers?
Musk really is a little bully, isn't he? The only free speech he cares about is his own.
Tesla, not Twitter, so unless it is a front, he might have something else planned. Forcing overrides of state laws?
Musk’s takeover of Twitter, has inadvertently turned Tesla into a much more politicised company. It’s no surprise he needs to beef up the legal team there.
It'll be interesting to see how Tesla shareholders' money can be spent on personal legal quests by Musk. I can imagine if the perceived slight is against Tesla, that'd be fine. If it's against Musk himself, how much can he claim that a slight against him affects Tesla enough for him to use Tesla's lawyers?
Tesla itself, has been in litigation in many states for many years over dealerships.
Most States have a law that says new cars can *only* be sold by independent franchised dealers, and not by manufacturers directly.
Tesla has been trying to overturn this for a decade, since they were a small upstart company - but they’re now trying to do this as by far the biggest car company (by market valuation, obviously!) in the world!
Obviously, litigation from Musk himself must be funded by Musk. Although maybe if his company has a bunch of hot-shot wankers lawyers on staff, they’d be amenable to some private work too.
I don't know anything much about Australian politics, but I've learnt enough this morning through following the counts to know that I don't want to live in Queensland. Definitely not a lefty-friendly state.
Comments
So most likely now a hung parliament and coalition talks over the next week or two, with a slim chance of a Labor majority
Several of the successful Independents ran to oust sitting Liberals. Would be strange to see them joining them.
ScoMo isn't quite dead yet. But the prognosis isn't good.
I mean, do we even know that this @Leon character actually exists. They might be one of these AI / GP3 (or whatever it is) he/she/it is always talking about.
Labour minority government.
Only about 2% counted, mind. This could swing it however.
"11:01 Ukrainian defences creaking in the Donbas"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61518209
We are talking possible to get to not pipe dreams
https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2022/Results/
I wouldn’t expect publishing this week at all if betting on it.
https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/electorates/morrison-slammed-for-katherine-deves-pick-after-warringah-returned-to-stegall/news-story/f0883d689158cfbc3fea13608835d304
I don't know anything about the controversy beyond the Gaurdian article, but surprised that voters are that bothered about the issue, and that they're coming down against banning trans women from women's sport. A mistake to go too heavily on an anti-woke ticket?
Tesla is building a hardcore litigation department where we directly initiate & execute lawsuits. The team will report directly to me.
Looking for hardcore streetfighters, not white-shoe lawyers like Perkins or Cooley who thrive on corruption.
There will be blood.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1527774704018280448
Looks like Albanese is PM.
A poor pick for the seat, that campaign might work in blue collar areas not in areas full of wealthy graduates
Even more, another Stugna-P ATGM strike also by the 80th Air Assault Brigade against a Russian AFV.
The Brigade claims destroying 3 Russian MBTs and 3 IFVs by their Anti-tank units in the past 24 hours.
https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1527913961718435848?cxt=HHwWkMCy-eTpnrQqAAAA
The key known unknown continues to be how soon the newly mobilised Ukrainian forces become available.
Might be days, might be weeks, might be longer.
1. held their own vote while the Coalition's fell AND they picked up more second votes (e.g. from the Greens or independents); or
2. they improved their vote while the Coalition's fell BUT they picked up a smaller percentage of second votes.
This makes sense. There were obviously a group of people who had moved away from the coalition who, depending on seat, either more often vote ALP first preference or second preference.
Your view presupposes the essentials being fully funded will cost us everything we bring in from taxation. If that is truly the case then yes we need to trim what the state does quite drastically
Majority back on.
The Russian military has claimed to have destroyed a large consignment of Western arms destined for Ukrainian forces defending the Donbas.
The defence ministry alleged that the strike in the north-western region of Zhytomyr, using sea-launched Kalibr cruise missiles, took out a "large batch" of weapons and military equipment delivered from the US and European countries.
The ministry also claimed that Russia had struck numerous Ukrainian command posts, fuel storage facilities near the city of Odesa and shot down two Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft and 14 drones. The reports could not be independently verified.
https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1527543664528048128
Got a Labor majority State government mind. Has had for a while.
Trump would either have allowed Vlad to take the whole lot without lifting a finger, or seen something on Fox News that irritated him and started asking how to turn the launch code key.
1. Publication of the Sue Gray report and verbatim exchanges with No. 10.
This could be grim for the PM.
2. The two by-election results
3. The new whiff of cover-up. Far from exonerating the PM and drawing a line under it there's a sense that this merely adds to the stench. It's rather like the Prince Andrew saga: the more you hope it goes away, the greater the foul smell grows.
I have long held the view that Johnson will survive until the next General Election. I am less sure now than at anytime since 2019. I think he is entering his most perilous period.
Now throughout history claims of air losses have always been higher than reality but I wouldn't put much trust in anything Russia claimed.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-20/federal-election-map-lying/101076016
1) If you believe the russians were going to go full nuclear would you strike first
2) What percentage of certainty of them going full nuclear would you need to trigger a premptive strike assuming the answer to 1) is yes
3) If the answer to one is no then really why bother having the damn things as they are now merely a revenge weapon after your country is a nuclear desert
If you want to discuss these topics, you’ve got to offer a modicum of coherence.
I know a lot of Boris fans on here will disagree with me, but it’s very much like Boris putting himself before his party in disrespecting such norms, which a lot of former leaders and hopefully future leaders just won’t do
My *impression* of what he had been saying is that the police investigated it and therefore there was no reason to reopen the case. That was clearly rubbish after it turned out the police had not had the full information. As I recall, he consistently said that the full information was irrelevant. For reasons.
Let’s say they conquer (and destroy) east Ukraine. They then have to rebuild it (with the Russian economy in free fall) and presumably occupy it - a land turned entirely hostile to them, rife with insurrection and partisan attacks on the Russian forces, Meanwhile more “fires” will occur across Russia
At the same time, the EU will be weaning itself off Russian oil and gas, and Russia will edge towards bankruptcy
I don’t see any route out of this that isn’t total defeat for Russia - and that’s even if they “win”
But in Canada, certainly, the Parties aren't the same things locally as Federally.
Although why 'outer' Queensland is relatively more attractive than 'outer' NSW or 'outer' Vic I don't know.
I imagine that 'outer' WA and 'outer' SA have inhospitable climates and terrain.
Queensland leans Coalition Federally, less so at state level. Victoria is Labor Federally and at state level
Most States have a law that says new cars can *only* be sold by independent franchised dealers, and not by manufacturers directly.
Tesla has been trying to overturn this for a decade, since they were a small upstart company - but they’re now trying to do this as by far the biggest car company (by market valuation, obviously!) in the world!
Obviously, litigation from Musk himself must be funded by Musk. Although maybe if his company has a bunch of hot-shot wankers lawyers on staff, they’d be amenable to some private work too.