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Betting on who’ll be PM after the next election – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 22 in General
imageBetting on who’ll be PM after the next election – politicalbetting.com

Unlike the previous thread this is about betting on who will be the Prime Minister after the next general election whenever that is.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    edited May 19
    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983
    Where "not too many seat losses" is around 40!

    lol!
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449
    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    I have money on Starmer. It seems value to me and Johnson is not likely to go and the Tories lack a spine to remove him,
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449

    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
    Macron is toast. I’m on Melenchon at 80 and still confident of him, because he is just simply a smarter more agile politician than Le Pen. This is how it plays out. Last first round polls show nothing in it between Le Pen and Melenchon. Macron’s second round defeat is France “Brexit” moment. Every country is going to have some sort of we are the people and we want the drawbridge up to be great again, moment.

    Good luck guessing even the date of the next election, let alone its result. You couldn't even spot the winner of the French election a week out when the incumbent was leading in the polls and had better approval ratings 🤷
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994
    Fpt
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 39% (-1)
    CON: 33% (-2)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    GRN: 5% (-2)

    via @IpsosUK, 11 - 17 May
    https://t.co/WCXPp19q7D
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
    Macron is toast. I’m on Melenchon at 80 and still confident of him, because he is just simply a smarter more agile politician than Le Pen. This is how it plays out. Last first round polls show nothing in it between Le Pen and Melenchon. Macron’s second round defeat is France “Brexit” moment. Every country is going to have some sort of we are the people and we want the drawbridge up to be great again, moment.

    Good luck guessing even the date of the next election, let alone its result. You couldn't even spot the winner of the French election a week out when the incumbent was leading in the polls and had better approval ratings 🤷
    Don't disparage @MoonRabbit - every thread needs its gadfly and/or contrarian.

    But certainly a category of Lib Dem I've not encountered before...
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,801
    Taz said:

    I have money on Starmer. It seems value to me and Johnson is not likely to go and the Tories lack a spine to remove him,

    Starmer will be gone in a couple of months when he gets his FPN
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Scholz has changed his tune.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1527211746519400450
    Russia must not win this war,Ukraine must prevail" Scholz to🇩🇪parl ahead of🇪🇺summit

    "We can take peace for granted only if prepared to defend it. It's lesson we learned
    Brutally attacked country needs help in defendng&doing so can't be termed escalation"


    The absence of concern for Putin's face is encouraging.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202

    Taz said:

    I have money on Starmer. It seems value to me and Johnson is not likely to go and the Tories lack a spine to remove him,

    Starmer will be gone in a couple of months when he gets his FPN
    Or not.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,881
    Latest IPSOS Mori poll:
    LAB: 39% (-1)
    CON: 33% (-2)
    LDM: 12% (+2)
    GRN: 5% (-2)

  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 3,953

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    I suspect his ratings will go down because people will feel he's got away with something he shouldn't have got away with.

    I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong. Just that it's the psychology of it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    I suspect his ratings will go down because people will feel he's got away with something he shouldn't have got away with.

    I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong. Just that it's the psychology of it.
    You are absolutely right. That is the right call.

    It would have been easier to ride out the FPNs than this.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    Nigelb said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
    Macron is toast. I’m on Melenchon at 80 and still confident of him, because he is just simply a smarter more agile politician than Le Pen. This is how it plays out. Last first round polls show nothing in it between Le Pen and Melenchon. Macron’s second round defeat is France “Brexit” moment. Every country is going to have some sort of we are the people and we want the drawbridge up to be great again, moment.

    Good luck guessing even the date of the next election, let alone its result. You couldn't even spot the winner of the French election a week out when the incumbent was leading in the polls and had better approval ratings 🤷
    Don't disparage @MoonRabbit - every thread needs its gadfly and/or contrarian.

    But certainly a category of Lib Dem I've not encountered before...
    Okay. Enough teasing. I’m so sharp I know exactly how this pans out.

    Can you not see what’s actually going to happen? This is utter utter disaster for the Tories. They can’t get rid of him now, but, at exactly the same time, far from exonerating Boris this actually drags him deeper into unpopularity, as this has stench of one of the biggest WHITEWASHES OF ALL TIME!

    “By my count the PM was at least 5 of the gatherings in respect of which there has been some enforcement
    20.5.20 BYOB
    19.6.20 PM birthday cake ambush CRIMINAL
    13.11.20 Lee Cain leaving
    13.11.20 No.10 flat - interviewing someone for a job in middle of ABBA party
    17.12.20 Capt Steve Higham leaving
    14.1.21 Private secs leaving”

    If there’s not a single PB Tory who is not a teeny bit surprised, then imagine how this disastrous establishment cover up for police and the Tory Party goes down with the voters and in the history books? 19th May 2022 is an historic day.

    They will have to exhume Peter Cook so he can do his judge skit again.

    This is massive politically. This day all by itself seals Tory unpopularity for years to come.

    That’s how this actually pans out, isn’t it?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,596
    Nigelb said:

    Scholz has changed his tune.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1527211746519400450
    Russia must not win this war,Ukraine must prevail" Scholz to🇩🇪parl ahead of🇪🇺summit

    "We can take peace for granted only if prepared to defend it. It's lesson we learned
    Brutally attacked country needs help in defendng&doing so can't be termed escalation"


    The absence of concern for Putin's face is encouraging.

    Is that war still on? I feel like we've all moved on now. Wagnum PI, etc.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 9,068
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/19/dont-let-people-off-if-they-steal-food-in-desperation-minister-tells-police-kit-malthouse

    The juxtaposition of the police letting the PM off for his attendance at various Downing Street lockdown parties with a government minister telling the police not to let off hungry people who steal food is very Britain 2022. What a time to be alive!
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,801
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    I have money on Starmer. It seems value to me and Johnson is not likely to go and the Tories lack a spine to remove him,

    Starmer will be gone in a couple of months when he gets his FPN
    Or not.
    I will amazed if he doesn't, the video of him stood up drinking beer will be a hard one for Durham police to justify how that was not breaking Covid rules when indoor areas of pubs were still shut.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,751
    Stuck 20 quid on McCormick in the GOP PA Senate primary.

    He's doing a Biden and could well overhaul Oz on the postals.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994
    edited May 19

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    I suspect his ratings will go down because people will feel he's got away with something he shouldn't have got away with.

    I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong. Just that it's the psychology of it.
    The negatives were already baked in imo, nobody was 'waiting to see' if he'd been to a party and those who would think he's got away with it were already judging him negatively (me included here)
    There will be some who are not as active at following political news who will have heard 'party on dudes' and now hear 'just a cake'
    Net positive in ratings. But marginal.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    Imagine being one of those fined whose boss has not been fined for the same thing because he was working and you were not according to the Met.

    I might be tempted to see what photos I have on my phone...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923

    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
    "the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job"

    They were successful. Appointed to the role of Bozo's scapegoat.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    I have money on Starmer. It seems value to me and Johnson is not likely to go and the Tories lack a spine to remove him,

    Starmer will be gone in a couple of months when he gets his FPN
    Or not.
    I will amazed if he doesn't, the video of him stood up drinking beer will be a hard one for Durham police to justify how that was not breaking Covid rules when indoor areas of pubs were still shut.
    Naughty little empty beer bottle on the window sill too. Party animals.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
    Macron is toast. I’m on Melenchon at 80 and still confident of him, because he is just simply a smarter more agile politician than Le Pen. This is how it plays out. Last first round polls show nothing in it between Le Pen and Melenchon. Macron’s second round defeat is France “Brexit” moment. Every country is going to have some sort of we are the people and we want the drawbridge up to be great again, moment.

    Good luck guessing even the date of the next election, let alone its result. You couldn't even spot the winner of the French election a week out when the incumbent was leading in the polls and had better approval ratings 🤷
    Oh Farooq it’s a lie to say that post you quote was 1 week out, more like 2 months before. 1 week out I posted things were moving towards Macron, but I was still tense the last week right up till relieved by the exit poll.

    Interestingly though, if Melenchon had made 2nd round, the dynamic would have been different. In a forced choice, many of those holding nose voting for Macron v Pen might have found Melenchon easier to vote for. As evidence, look at polling for the coming election.

    I don’t know about glad flies, but flies are certainly glad to see me up here, I am going to have to go down and bath and put clean clothes on.

    More button bright and sharp analysis from me later 😘
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    Anushka Asthana
    @AnushkaAsthana
    ·
    41m
    Second Tory critic of the PM - sounds miserable. Thinks the PM is probably safe now but says "we are going to lose the next election with him as leader-he's toxic". The byelections in June could still sharpen minds

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1527250496704204802
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,208
    Nigelb said:

    Scholz has changed his tune.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1527211746519400450
    Russia must not win this war,Ukraine must prevail" Scholz to🇩🇪parl ahead of🇪🇺summit

    "We can take peace for granted only if prepared to defend it. It's lesson we learned
    Brutally attacked country needs help in defendng&doing so can't be termed escalation"


    The absence of concern for Putin's face is encouraging.

    If he really wants Ukraine to prevail, he’ll stop the shovelling of billions of Euro into Russia for O&G sales.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    I have money on Starmer. It seems value to me and Johnson is not likely to go and the Tories lack a spine to remove him,

    Starmer will be gone in a couple of months when he gets his FPN
    Or not.
    I will amazed if he doesn't, the video of him stood up drinking beer will be a hard one for Durham police to justify how that was not breaking Covid rules when indoor areas of pubs were still shut.
    I wouldn't be amazed either way.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,697

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Alistair said:

    Stuck 20 quid on McCormick in the GOP PA Senate primary.

    He's doing a Biden and could well overhaul Oz on the postals.

    A Republican relying on postal votes to overtake his opponent ?
    Say it ain't so.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,015
    Applicant said:

    Heathener said:

    JJ, who is mostly it seems to me a decent person, claimed yesterday that homophobia and racism were far reduced yesterday. He cited examples of footballers and others harassed in the past for being gay and that now the situation is much better.

    Well, yesterday's leading trend on twitter in the whole world was the hashtag 'we are all idrissa' in support of 's PSGSenegalese star Idrissa Gueye who refused to wear a shirt carrying the rainbow symbol.

    Homosexuality is illegal in Senegal and in Qatar, who own PSG.

    Two compatriots of Gueye who play in Britain tweeted in support of him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61492696

    I am afraid I see little or nothing in this country at the moment to damp down the culture wars and hatred being, I believe, deliberately now fanned into flame by Boris Johnson's appeal to a certain kind of red wall demographic.

    It's godawful.

    Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not sure those comments were made - at least not yesterday, and as far as I can remember.
    Hmmm...

    So a chap from Senegal isn't especially LGBTQ+

    Two players who are from Senegal appear to support him in this.

    This rather brings us to the issue of adaption to the host culture when in a country, or the old Political correctness idea of "separate but equal cultures" - yes, some apparent people got up on their hind legs and used that phrase. While discussing equality....

    I went to university in 90s. Violent homophobia was present. Because of the source of it, the President of Gay Society actively suppressed (or tried to suppress) reporting of attacks.
    I also went to university around the same time. Not long before I started, the rugby club had joined the gay society (as I believe it was called at the time, it certainly predated LGB becoming LGBT, let alone the rest of the alphabet) en masse and voting to shut it down. IIRC it had to regenerate under a new name and the SU had to jump in to protect against it happening again.
    The case in question was rather interesting - a student violently attacked by an organised gang of other students. The homophobic intent was clear from witnesses. The President of the GaySoc was rather aggressive in trying to stop the attacked student from going to the police - even got the university authorities involved to cover it up.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,208

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    More from @IpsosUK
    : snapshot on key issues

    - Lab lead Con on dealing with cost of living by 15 pts
    - Lab lead Con on levelling up by 21 pts
    - Con lead Lab on growing economy by 9 pts
    - Parties neck & neck on managing relations with EU



    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1527252576848191493/photo/1
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    I fear we may have already, and very briefly, seen the best of Jofra Archer in an England shirt.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/may/19/jofra-archer-ruled-out-for-season-in-latest-england-injury-setback-cricket
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994

    More from @IpsosUK
    : snapshot on key issues

    - Lab lead Con on dealing with cost of living by 15 pts
    - Lab lead Con on levelling up by 21 pts
    - Con lead Lab on growing economy by 9 pts
    - Parties neck & neck on managing relations with EU



    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1527252576848191493/photo/1

    Suggests the timing and nature of any summer/autumn budget or intervention key
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994

    I fear we may have already, and very briefly, seen the best of Jofra Archer in an England shirt.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/may/19/jofra-archer-ruled-out-for-season-in-latest-england-injury-setback-cricket

    Ryan Harris level of injury issues
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    edited May 19

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
    Macron is toast. I’m on Melenchon at 80 and still confident of him, because he is just simply a smarter more agile politician than Le Pen. This is how it plays out. Last first round polls show nothing in it between Le Pen and Melenchon. Macron’s second round defeat is France “Brexit” moment. Every country is going to have some sort of we are the people and we want the drawbridge up to be great again, moment.

    Good luck guessing even the date of the next election, let alone its result. You couldn't even spot the winner of the French election a week out when the incumbent was leading in the polls and had better approval ratings 🤷
    Oh Farooq it’s a lie to say that post you quote was 1 week out, more like 2 months before. 1 week out I posted things were moving towards Macron, but I was still tense the last week right up till relieved by the exit poll.

    Interestingly though, if Melenchon had made 2nd round, the dynamic would have been different. In a forced choice, many of those holding nose voting for Macron v Pen might have found Melenchon easier to vote for. As evidence, look at polling for the coming election.

    I don’t know about glad flies, but flies are certainly glad to see me up here, I am going to have to go down and bath and put clean clothes on.

    More button bright and sharp analysis from me later 😘
    Macron was on 68% v Melenchon with Elabe in March. He only got 58% against Le Pen in the runoff last month

    https://twitter.com/ElectsWorld/status/1501306351183491072?s=20&t=nOJDsypZOg1j9DxoPsw_Ug.

    On France, Macron has now appointed a female PM ahead of the legislative elections next month

    https://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/french-election-2022/2022/05/for-only-the-second-time-france-has-a-female-prime-minister
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731

    I fear we may have already, and very briefly, seen the best of Jofra Archer in an England shirt.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/may/19/jofra-archer-ruled-out-for-season-in-latest-england-injury-setback-cricket

    Yep, thought that for a while. Its a tragedy. A genuine quick bowler, capable of enough pace and bounce to unsettle the best batsmen in the world. For all Jimmy and Stuart's wickets, you never had the sense of menace with them. Skill and movement in the right conditions sure, but Archer was genuinely scary.

    I hope I (we) are wrong.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739

    More from @IpsosUK
    : snapshot on key issues

    - Lab lead Con on dealing with cost of living by 15 pts
    - Lab lead Con on levelling up by 21 pts
    - Con lead Lab on growing economy by 9 pts
    - Parties neck & neck on managing relations with EU



    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1527252576848191493/photo/1

    Suggests the timing and nature of any summer/autumn budget or intervention key
    I think the longer the cost of living crisis goes on unabated then that Tory lead on growing the economy is going to shrink.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,208

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    This is going to rattle some cages in the Commons.

    The civil courts are more likely to provide a means of restitution than the broken criminal justice system.

    Ex-Labour MP must pay £434k damages to woman he repeatedly assaulted
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/19/mike-hill-ex-labour-mp-compensation-woman-sexually-assaulted
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739

    I fear we may have already, and very briefly, seen the best of Jofra Archer in an England shirt.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/may/19/jofra-archer-ruled-out-for-season-in-latest-england-injury-setback-cricket

    Yep, thought that for a while. Its a tragedy. A genuine quick bowler, capable of enough pace and bounce to unsettle the best batsmen in the world. For all Jimmy and Stuart's wickets, you never had the sense of menace with them. Skill and movement in the right conditions sure, but Archer was genuinely scary.

    I hope I (we) are wrong.
    That spell against Steve Smith in the Lord's test in 2019 was utterly gripping, at one point I thought Steve Smith might get seriously injured.

    I started following cricket in 1990 as an 11 year old, I remember David Gower saying facing four Jofra Archers was what it was like playing the Windies for two decades during his career.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,015
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
    Macron is toast. I’m on Melenchon at 80 and still confident of him, because he is just simply a smarter more agile politician than Le Pen. This is how it plays out. Last first round polls show nothing in it between Le Pen and Melenchon. Macron’s second round defeat is France “Brexit” moment. Every country is going to have some sort of we are the people and we want the drawbridge up to be great again, moment.

    Good luck guessing even the date of the next election, let alone its result. You couldn't even spot the winner of the French election a week out when the incumbent was leading in the polls and had better approval ratings 🤷
    Oh Farooq it’s a lie to say that post you quote was 1 week out, more like 2 months before. 1 week out I posted things were moving towards Macron, but I was still tense the last week right up till relieved by the exit poll.

    Interestingly though, if Melenchon had made 2nd round, the dynamic would have been different. In a forced choice, many of those holding nose voting for Macron v Pen might have found Melenchon easier to vote for. As evidence, look at polling for the coming election.

    I don’t know about glad flies, but flies are certainly glad to see me up here, I am going to have to go down and bath and put clean clothes on.

    More button bright and sharp analysis from me later 😘
    Macron was on 68% v Melenchon with Elabe in March. He only got 58% against Le Pen in the runoff last month

    https://twitter.com/ElectsWorld/status/1501306351183491072?s=20&t=nOJDsypZOg1j9DxoPsw_Ug.

    On France, Macron has now appointed a female PM ahead of the legislative elections next month

    https://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/french-election-2022/2022/05/for-only-the-second-time-france-has-a-female-prime-minister
    It is fair to say, that how things will change when Le Pen goes, will be interesting.

    There is a large, negative vote with Le Pen - a large number of French people will vote for anything/anyone against anyone named "Le Pen"

    She does have a large personal following, though.

    What happens to the French extreme right after Le Pen? Probably fragments. However, there is the possibility tha someone builds on her work - keeps/inherits the following but loses (some) of the negative.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731

    I fear we may have already, and very briefly, seen the best of Jofra Archer in an England shirt.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/may/19/jofra-archer-ruled-out-for-season-in-latest-england-injury-setback-cricket

    Yep, thought that for a while. Its a tragedy. A genuine quick bowler, capable of enough pace and bounce to unsettle the best batsmen in the world. For all Jimmy and Stuart's wickets, you never had the sense of menace with them. Skill and movement in the right conditions sure, but Archer was genuinely scary.

    I hope I (we) are wrong.
    That spell against Steve Smith in the Lord's test in 2019 was utterly gripping, at one point I thought Steve Smith might get seriously injured.

    I started following cricket in 1990 as an 11 year old, I remember David Gower saying facing four Jofra Archers was what it was like playing the Windies for two decades during his career.
    True. I grew up with cricket from about 81 onwards so knew an era of giant WI quicks and losing to the Aussies (a lot). English test players from that era ought to have an asterisk by their stats to reflect the quality of the bowling they faced...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Lol. If he has to quit perhaps old men will one day remember that 'he broke the law with such honour as made your grandmother weep' 'he were fined for unreasonable levels of decency as I recall'
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,616
    Nigelb said:

    This is going to rattle some cages in the Commons.

    The civil courts are more likely to provide a means of restitution than the broken criminal justice system.

    Ex-Labour MP must pay £434k damages to woman he repeatedly assaulted
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/19/mike-hill-ex-labour-mp-compensation-woman-sexually-assaulted

    They will be setting up Ltd companies if they can!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,208
    @TheScreamingEagles @FrancisUrquhart Did you see the interview with the Liverpool FC “Data Doctor” in the Telegraph yesterday?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/05/18/revealed-silicon-valley-algorithm-helping-liverpool-cope-history/

    It all helps to explain why manager Jurgen Klopp chose to rotate nine key players in beating Southampton on Tuesday night, barely three days after needing 120 minutes to win the FA Cup.

    It perhaps also helps to explain how Liverpool have slashed their number of lost days this season to injury by more than a third and retained such remarkable performance levels across 61 games.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,697
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994

    More from @IpsosUK
    : snapshot on key issues

    - Lab lead Con on dealing with cost of living by 15 pts
    - Lab lead Con on levelling up by 21 pts
    - Con lead Lab on growing economy by 9 pts
    - Parties neck & neck on managing relations with EU



    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1527252576848191493/photo/1

    Suggests the timing and nature of any summer/autumn budget or intervention key
    I think the longer the cost of living crisis goes on unabated then that Tory lead on growing the economy is going to shrink.
    They need to find towards furlough level of intervention and cover it with massive growth. Huge infrastructure projects. Blue sky macguffins everywhere.
    Turn on the taps this time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 17,419
    Nigelb said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
    Macron is toast. I’m on Melenchon at 80 and still confident of him, because he is just simply a smarter more agile politician than Le Pen. This is how it plays out. Last first round polls show nothing in it between Le Pen and Melenchon. Macron’s second round defeat is France “Brexit” moment. Every country is going to have some sort of we are the people and we want the drawbridge up to be great again, moment.

    Good luck guessing even the date of the next election, let alone its result. You couldn't even spot the winner of the French election a week out when the incumbent was leading in the polls and had better approval ratings 🤷
    Don't disparage @MoonRabbit - every thread needs its gadfly and/or contrarian.

    But certainly a category of Lib Dem I've not encountered before...
    It's a trait of Leon's aliases to have a Boriscene conversion.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 55,591
    Nigelb said:

    Scholz has changed his tune.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1527211746519400450
    Russia must not win this war,Ukraine must prevail" Scholz to🇩🇪parl ahead of🇪🇺summit

    "We can take peace for granted only if prepared to defend it. It's lesson we learned
    Brutally attacked country needs help in defendng&doing so can't be termed escalation"


    The absence of concern for Putin's face is encouraging.

    Si vis pacem, para bellum
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,887
    I think the best value trading bet is the likely next leader of the opposition (betting on Starmer to go and their odds to then massively come in). I don’t know the Labour Party well enough to know who that is though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,208

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.
    Nope, he didn’t say that the PM should resign for getting an FPN, he said that the PM should resign for being under investigation for the offence that resulted in the FPN.

    Now that he’s under investigation himself, for the same offence, he’s remarkably quiet about it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731
    Sandpit said:

    @TheScreamingEagles @FrancisUrquhart Did you see the interview with the Liverpool FC “Data Doctor” in the Telegraph yesterday?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/05/18/revealed-silicon-valley-algorithm-helping-liverpool-cope-history/

    It all helps to explain why manager Jurgen Klopp chose to rotate nine key players in beating Southampton on Tuesday night, barely three days after needing 120 minutes to win the FA Cup.

    It perhaps also helps to explain how Liverpool have slashed their number of lost days this season to injury by more than a third and retained such remarkable performance levels across 61 games.

    Is this the idea of players being in the red zone etc? The more tired, the more likely to get injured?

    Also partly a luxury of big squads.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 2,127
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    From "I'm a Lib Dem, me" to gushing Borgasm because Big Dog has only be fined once is a hell of an arc.

    it’s not Borgasm, it’s just very funny! Listen.

    “ It had been thought that Johnson and his wife were quite likely to be fined over at least one further event – the gathering held in the Downing Street flat on the night Dominic Cummings quit. Loud Abba music was heard coming from the flat that night, and Carrie Johnson (who was delighted to see Cummings go) was said to be celebrating with friends who work as government advisers. Sources have claimed that they were there for a work meeting, and that the PM was interviewing one of the attendees about a potential job. “

    Labour have now lost 2 leaders in Milliband and Starmer, and two elections, 2015 and 2024, due to mishaps with takeaway food! Is that not amazing?
    Macron is toast. I’m on Melenchon at 80 and still confident of him, because he is just simply a smarter more agile politician than Le Pen. This is how it plays out. Last first round polls show nothing in it between Le Pen and Melenchon. Macron’s second round defeat is France “Brexit” moment. Every country is going to have some sort of we are the people and we want the drawbridge up to be great again, moment.

    Good luck guessing even the date of the next election, let alone its result. You couldn't even spot the winner of the French election a week out when the incumbent was leading in the polls and had better approval ratings 🤷
    That’s just nasty.

    May be she was wrong on this occasion, but betting is about value not spotting the winner.!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,750

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    He said Johnson should resign for just getting investigated. Which was not an honourable position, nor a decent one.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,697

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Lol. If he has to quit perhaps old men will one day remember that 'he broke the law with such honour as made your grandmother weep' 'he were fined for unreasonable levels of decency as I recall'
    You may be correct in your sarcastic implication that Starmer will be forgotten if he resigns. Are you happy celebrating a political culture where the person who lies seems immovable in his position while the person who accepts that the same rules apply to him as to others is the one who faces a fall?
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 3,953
    Nigelb said:

    This is going to rattle some cages in the Commons.

    The civil courts are more likely to provide a means of restitution than the broken criminal justice system.

    Ex-Labour MP must pay £434k damages to woman he repeatedly assaulted
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/19/mike-hill-ex-labour-mp-compensation-woman-sexually-assaulted

    The civil courts have always been about restitution, whereas the criminal courts have always been about punishment. That isn't a "broken system"... it IS the system. If you want your boss to go to prison for criminal conduct, that's for the criminal courts. If you want compensation for the misery of working with him and ultimate loss of job and career, that's for the Employment Tribunal.

    And it's not surprising that they may have different results as the criminal courts demand proof beyond reasonable doubt, and the civil courts work on the balance of probabilities. That's a feature, not a bug - it's long been seen that the consequences of criminal conviction are so severe a higher standard must be applied.

    None of that is to say that the criminal process for sexual offences works well... it's just that this case doesn't necessarily show it.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 2,127

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/19/dont-let-people-off-if-they-steal-food-in-desperation-minister-tells-police-kit-malthouse

    The juxtaposition of the police letting the PM off for his attendance at various Downing Street lockdown parties with a government minister telling the police not to let off hungry people who steal food is very Britain 2022. What a time to be alive!

    How much did Jean Valjean get?

    5 years for stealing a loaf of bread and 17 because he tried to run?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    That's the point though. He's trying to make being more honourable than Boz some sort of fabulous trait. It's not aiming for the stars is it.
    He's making the mistake of thinking that means his resignation would carry some positive reaction. It won't.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994
    edited May 19

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Lol. If he has to quit perhaps old men will one day remember that 'he broke the law with such honour as made your grandmother weep' 'he were fined for unreasonable levels of decency as I recall'
    You may be correct in your sarcastic implication that Starmer will be forgotten if he resigns. Are you happy celebrating a political culture where the person who lies seems immovable in his position while the person who accepts that the same rules apply to him as to others is the one who faces a fall?
    No i wish they'd both piss off. I find Starmers grandstanding over 'integrity' particularly grating. But I admit in part that's because of all the parties, I dislike Labour the most.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/19/dont-let-people-off-if-they-steal-food-in-desperation-minister-tells-police-kit-malthouse

    The juxtaposition of the police letting the PM off for his attendance at various Downing Street lockdown parties with a government minister telling the police not to let off hungry people who steal food is very Britain 2022. What a time to be alive!

    How much did Jean Valjean get?

    5 years for stealing a loaf of bread and 17 because he tried to run?
    TBF it was mainly the singing that saw his sentence extended...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,208

    Sandpit said:

    @TheScreamingEagles @FrancisUrquhart Did you see the interview with the Liverpool FC “Data Doctor” in the Telegraph yesterday?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/05/18/revealed-silicon-valley-algorithm-helping-liverpool-cope-history/

    It all helps to explain why manager Jurgen Klopp chose to rotate nine key players in beating Southampton on Tuesday night, barely three days after needing 120 minutes to win the FA Cup.

    It perhaps also helps to explain how Liverpool have slashed their number of lost days this season to injury by more than a third and retained such remarkable performance levels across 61 games.

    Is this the idea of players being in the red zone etc? The more tired, the more likely to get injured?

    Also partly a luxury of big squads.
    It’s the level of data analysis, that until a few years ago was the preserve of F1 teams.

    It’s the latest iteration of the sort of coaching made famous by Sir Clive Woodward and David Brailsford, with iteration being the operative word. Management decisions are all based on hard data, not a hunch or a feeling about anything.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,015
    edited May 19

    Nigelb said:

    Scholz has changed his tune.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1527211746519400450
    Russia must not win this war,Ukraine must prevail" Scholz to🇩🇪parl ahead of🇪🇺summit

    "We can take peace for granted only if prepared to defend it. It's lesson we learned
    Brutally attacked country needs help in defendng&doing so can't be termed escalation"


    The absence of concern for Putin's face is encouraging.

    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    indeed

    image
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723

    Applicant said:

    Heathener said:

    JJ, who is mostly it seems to me a decent person, claimed yesterday that homophobia and racism were far reduced yesterday. He cited examples of footballers and others harassed in the past for being gay and that now the situation is much better.

    Well, yesterday's leading trend on twitter in the whole world was the hashtag 'we are all idrissa' in support of 's PSGSenegalese star Idrissa Gueye who refused to wear a shirt carrying the rainbow symbol.

    Homosexuality is illegal in Senegal and in Qatar, who own PSG.

    Two compatriots of Gueye who play in Britain tweeted in support of him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61492696

    I am afraid I see little or nothing in this country at the moment to damp down the culture wars and hatred being, I believe, deliberately now fanned into flame by Boris Johnson's appeal to a certain kind of red wall demographic.

    It's godawful.

    Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not sure those comments were made - at least not yesterday, and as far as I can remember.
    Hmmm...

    So a chap from Senegal isn't especially LGBTQ+

    Two players who are from Senegal appear to support him in this.

    This rather brings us to the issue of adaption to the host culture when in a country, or the old Political correctness idea of "separate but equal cultures" - yes, some apparent people got up on their hind legs and used that phrase. While discussing equality....

    I went to university in 90s. Violent homophobia was present. Because of the source of it, the President of Gay Society actively suppressed (or tried to suppress) reporting of attacks.
    I also went to university around the same time. Not long before I started, the rugby club had joined the gay society (as I believe it was called at the time, it certainly predated LGB becoming LGBT, let alone the rest of the alphabet) en masse and voting to shut it down. IIRC it had to regenerate under a new name and the SU had to jump in to protect against it happening again.
    The case in question was rather interesting - a student violently attacked by an organised gang of other students. The homophobic intent was clear from witnesses. The President of the GaySoc was rather aggressive in trying to stop the attacked student from going to the police - even got the university authorities involved to cover it up.
    The President of Gay Soc had far more influence at your place than mine.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,887

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/19/dont-let-people-off-if-they-steal-food-in-desperation-minister-tells-police-kit-malthouse

    The juxtaposition of the police letting the PM off for his attendance at various Downing Street lockdown parties with a government minister telling the police not to let off hungry people who steal food is very Britain 2022. What a time to be alive!

    How much did Jean Valjean get?

    5 years for stealing a loaf of bread and 17 because he tried to run?
    Jail bird. Got mixed up with terrorists in the end - the police had judged his character well. Should have been 30 years.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,697
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.
    Nope, he didn’t say that the PM should resign for getting an FPN, he said that the PM should resign for being under investigation for the offence that resulted in the FPN.

    Now that he’s under investigation himself, for the same offence, he’s remarkably quiet about it.
    Ever since BJ was fined, Starmer has said BJ should resign because he received an FPN.

    Should he have called for BJ’s resignation when he was still just under investigation? Perhaps not. I’m not arguing Starmer is perfect. I didn’t vote for him and I live in his constituency. But on the topic of the possibility he might resign, which was where we started, I respect he has applied the same rules to himself as to others.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 2,127

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/19/dont-let-people-off-if-they-steal-food-in-desperation-minister-tells-police-kit-malthouse

    The juxtaposition of the police letting the PM off for his attendance at various Downing Street lockdown parties with a government minister telling the police not to let off hungry people who steal food is very Britain 2022. What a time to be alive!

    How much did Jean Valjean get?

    5 years for stealing a loaf of bread and 17 because he tried to run?
    TBF it was mainly the singing that saw his sentence extended...
    I assumed everyone read it in the original? Pure poetry.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,015
    dixiedean said:

    Applicant said:

    Heathener said:

    JJ, who is mostly it seems to me a decent person, claimed yesterday that homophobia and racism were far reduced yesterday. He cited examples of footballers and others harassed in the past for being gay and that now the situation is much better.

    Well, yesterday's leading trend on twitter in the whole world was the hashtag 'we are all idrissa' in support of 's PSGSenegalese star Idrissa Gueye who refused to wear a shirt carrying the rainbow symbol.

    Homosexuality is illegal in Senegal and in Qatar, who own PSG.

    Two compatriots of Gueye who play in Britain tweeted in support of him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61492696

    I am afraid I see little or nothing in this country at the moment to damp down the culture wars and hatred being, I believe, deliberately now fanned into flame by Boris Johnson's appeal to a certain kind of red wall demographic.

    It's godawful.

    Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not sure those comments were made - at least not yesterday, and as far as I can remember.
    Hmmm...

    So a chap from Senegal isn't especially LGBTQ+

    Two players who are from Senegal appear to support him in this.

    This rather brings us to the issue of adaption to the host culture when in a country, or the old Political correctness idea of "separate but equal cultures" - yes, some apparent people got up on their hind legs and used that phrase. While discussing equality....

    I went to university in 90s. Violent homophobia was present. Because of the source of it, the President of Gay Society actively suppressed (or tried to suppress) reporting of attacks.
    I also went to university around the same time. Not long before I started, the rugby club had joined the gay society (as I believe it was called at the time, it certainly predated LGB becoming LGBT, let alone the rest of the alphabet) en masse and voting to shut it down. IIRC it had to regenerate under a new name and the SU had to jump in to protect against it happening again.
    The case in question was rather interesting - a student violently attacked by an organised gang of other students. The homophobic intent was clear from witnesses. The President of the GaySoc was rather aggressive in trying to stop the attacked student from going to the police - even got the university authorities involved to cover it up.
    The President of Gay Soc had far more influence at your place than mine.
    It was more the politics of the situation - the university authorities were very keen to stop the incident becoming public. It was the Wrong Kind of Homophobic attack.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,967

    More from @IpsosUK
    : snapshot on key issues

    - Lab lead Con on dealing with cost of living by 15 pts
    - Lab lead Con on levelling up by 21 pts
    - Con lead Lab on growing economy by 9 pts
    - Parties neck & neck on managing relations with EU



    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1527252576848191493/photo/1

    Suggests the timing and nature of any summer/autumn budget or intervention key
    interesting that labour is only trusted on two things one of which is cost of living which they like the tories and every western government has a clue on what to do about and reducing inequalities which they probably will manage by levelling down
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,015
    biggles said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/19/dont-let-people-off-if-they-steal-food-in-desperation-minister-tells-police-kit-malthouse

    The juxtaposition of the police letting the PM off for his attendance at various Downing Street lockdown parties with a government minister telling the police not to let off hungry people who steal food is very Britain 2022. What a time to be alive!

    How much did Jean Valjean get?

    5 years for stealing a loaf of bread and 17 because he tried to run?
    Jail bird. Got mixed up with terrorists in the end - the police had judged his character well. Should have been 30 years.
    Not just terrorists - insurrectionists.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,215
    Seems like there’s a few in the party who know they’re toast under Boris - and the majority blindly marching on thinking he’s still some miraculous vote winner.

    Very sad. The government really has run out of ideas and road
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,697

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    That's the point though. He's trying to make being more honourable than Boz some sort of fabulous trait. It's not aiming for the stars is it.
    He's making the mistake of thinking that means his resignation would carry some positive reaction. It won't.
    Maybe he’s not making that mistake. Maybe he’s not doing this as a political tactic. Maybe he’s said this because he actually is a decent guy who respects his legal training and thinks the same rules should apply to everyone.

    Johnson has lied his entire career. He’s been sacked twice for lying. He lied about the Northern Ireland Protocol. It’s not difficult to believe that everything he does is entirely for cynical reasons. I like to believe that that does not apply to all politicians.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 17,419

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    That's the point though. He's trying to make being more honourable than Boz some sort of fabulous trait. It's not aiming for the stars is it.
    He's making the mistake of thinking that means his resignation would carry some positive reaction. It won't.
    I agree. I sort of think one should be 100% pincipled, or 100% unprincipled. Then people know what they're getting. Having 'some principles' isn't worth much.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 3,953
    edited May 19

    Nigelb said:

    This is going to rattle some cages in the Commons.

    The civil courts are more likely to provide a means of restitution than the broken criminal justice system.

    Ex-Labour MP must pay £434k damages to woman he repeatedly assaulted
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/19/mike-hill-ex-labour-mp-compensation-woman-sexually-assaulted

    They will be setting up Ltd companies if they can!
    I'm not sure that will work for two reasons.

    Firstly, my understanding that MPs are the employer, and IPSA will only pay them on behalf of the MP and via expenses if that is indeed the arrangement. For this, the MPs get an insurance policy - but it is capped and the award in this case means Hill will need to pay the excess.

    Secondly, even if allowed, limited liability works for an honest trading loss, but I believe creditors can, in certain circumstances, require a company to pursue a claim against a third party (such as a director whose wrongdoing is the underlying cause of the claim on the company). So, if well advised, the employee would look to block the winding up of the company and ensure, via the courts if necessary, the insolvency practitioner to pursue the claim against the ex-MP.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,697

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    That's the point though. He's trying to make being more honourable than Boz some sort of fabulous trait. It's not aiming for the stars is it.
    He's making the mistake of thinking that means his resignation would carry some positive reaction. It won't.
    I agree. I sort of think one should be 100% pincipled, or 100% unprincipled. Then people know what they're getting. Having 'some principles' isn't worth much.
    Then you get a world where everyone is 100% unprincipled. Cause no one is perfect and can live up to being 100% principled. I’d rather a world where lots of people are 80-90% principled and the few who are 100% unprincipled don’t end up Prime Minister.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 55,591
    NEW: Green MSP Gillian Mackay was this morning asked "how Green" she thinks it is that newly nationalised rail services are being slashed in Scotland at the moment.
    After pausing she asked her press officer: "Do I have to?"
    He nodded indicating she would have to answer.


    https://twitter.com/rachelwatson27/status/1527236342333288450
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202

    Nigelb said:

    This is going to rattle some cages in the Commons.

    The civil courts are more likely to provide a means of restitution than the broken criminal justice system.

    Ex-Labour MP must pay £434k damages to woman he repeatedly assaulted
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/19/mike-hill-ex-labour-mp-compensation-woman-sexually-assaulted

    The civil courts have always been about restitution, whereas the criminal courts have always been about punishment. That isn't a "broken system"...
    It is when it takes cases four years to get to trial, if they ever do. Confidence in the system is, I think, at an all time low ?

    Thought I acknowledge I should have added 'retribution' to my original comment.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    That's the point though. He's trying to make being more honourable than Boz some sort of fabulous trait. It's not aiming for the stars is it.
    He's making the mistake of thinking that means his resignation would carry some positive reaction. It won't.
    Maybe he’s not making that mistake. Maybe he’s not doing this as a political tactic. Maybe he’s said this because he actually is a decent guy who respects his legal training and thinks the same rules should apply to everyone.

    Johnson has lied his entire career. He’s been sacked twice for lying. He lied about the Northern Ireland Protocol. It’s not difficult to believe that everything he does is entirely for cynical reasons. I like to believe that that does not apply to all politicians.
    If he quits its because he broke the law he eagerly supported imposing on the rest of us. Who cares if he believes himself honourable? If he were he'd have stuck to the law and not taken the piss.
    'I'm not like the other boys' is a cop out.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,887
    I’ll say it again. I think this site routinely underestimates the chances of Boris winning a majority at the next election. It’s not a certain (depends how far down the shitter of inflation the economy goes before correcting) but I think it’s more likely than not.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 3,953
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is going to rattle some cages in the Commons.

    The civil courts are more likely to provide a means of restitution than the broken criminal justice system.

    Ex-Labour MP must pay £434k damages to woman he repeatedly assaulted
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/19/mike-hill-ex-labour-mp-compensation-woman-sexually-assaulted

    The civil courts have always been about restitution, whereas the criminal courts have always been about punishment. That isn't a "broken system"...
    It is when it takes cases four years to get to trial, if they ever do. Confidence in the system is, I think, at an all time low ?

    Thought I acknowledge I should have added 'retribution' to my original comment.
    I agree there is a growing backlog in the criminal courts and that it's a problem... but that's also happened in the civil courts, and to a very similar extent, so I'm not sure your logic holds.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    That's the point though. He's trying to make being more honourable than Boz some sort of fabulous trait. It's not aiming for the stars is it.
    He's making the mistake of thinking that means his resignation would carry some positive reaction. It won't.
    I agree. I sort of think one should be 100% pincipled, or 100% unprincipled. Then people know what they're getting. Having 'some principles' isn't worth much.
    Agreed, someone doesnt become principled on the basis his colleagues do a coordinated tweet out to tell you he is, nor because they are not as unprincipled as someone else.
    It's what others think of you, not what you announce to them that they should think of you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202

    Nigelb said:

    This is going to rattle some cages in the Commons.

    The civil courts are more likely to provide a means of restitution than the broken criminal justice system.

    Ex-Labour MP must pay £434k damages to woman he repeatedly assaulted
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/19/mike-hill-ex-labour-mp-compensation-woman-sexually-assaulted

    ....None of that is to say that the criminal process for sexual offences works well... it's just that this case doesn't necessarily show it.
    I clearly didn't express my thoughts very well.

    It's not that this case shows anything in particular about the criminal justice system - rather that it sets something of a precedent, as it's the first such award against an MP.

    The plaintiff also compared the process with going through the Parliamentary investigation route:
    ...“It is important that the many women who have been sexually harassed and assaulted by MPs know that there is another way of seeking justice and compensation for their losses,” she said.

    “The parliamentary investigation route, which I went through, is arduous and very tough and conducted in private.

    “Pursuing Mike Hill through the courts has meant that I might receive compensation for my financial losses and the process seems much more open and transparent.”

    Woman A said the decision to take on Hill had nevertheless left her homeless, traumatised by post-traumatic stress disorder, suffering from severe depressive disorder and with limited prospects of a career.

    “I have gone through two and a half years of hell. I left my job with nothing while he took his pension, and several months’ pay and was covered by £250,000 towards his legal fees. I had to crowdfund my case. The system, even through the courts, is weighted in favour of MPs,” she said...


  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731
    biggles said:

    I’ll say it again. I think this site routinely underestimates the chances of Boris winning a majority at the next election. It’s not a certain (depends how far down the shitter of inflation the economy goes before correcting) but I think it’s more likely than not.

    Quite possibly. Prediction is hard, especially about the future.

    I think a lot of posters viscerally hate Johnson and that clouds their judgement. I suspect the key factor is going to be the economy. Should the surge in inflation be short lived, and the government actually do something to help the worst off, then its not impossible for things to turn around.

    BUT

    There is a danger of the Corbyn effect. 2017 - Corbyn was magic grandpa. 2019 - Corbyn as the devil who must be kept out.

    The public have seen Johnson as PM for 3 years now. It will be longer in 2023/4. Enough of them may say enough.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,697

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    That's the point though. He's trying to make being more honourable than Boz some sort of fabulous trait. It's not aiming for the stars is it.
    He's making the mistake of thinking that means his resignation would carry some positive reaction. It won't.
    Maybe he’s not making that mistake. Maybe he’s not doing this as a political tactic. Maybe he’s said this because he actually is a decent guy who respects his legal training and thinks the same rules should apply to everyone.

    Johnson has lied his entire career. He’s been sacked twice for lying. He lied about the Northern Ireland Protocol. It’s not difficult to believe that everything he does is entirely for cynical reasons. I like to believe that that does not apply to all politicians.
    If he quits its because he broke the law he eagerly supported imposing on the rest of us. Who cares if he believes himself honourable? If he were he'd have stuck to the law and not taken the piss.
    'I'm not like the other boys' is a cop out.
    You're talking about Boris Johnson? Entirely agree.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    That's the point though. He's trying to make being more honourable than Boz some sort of fabulous trait. It's not aiming for the stars is it.
    He's making the mistake of thinking that means his resignation would carry some positive reaction. It won't.
    I agree. I sort of think one should be 100% pincipled, or 100% unprincipled. Then people know what they're getting. Having 'some principles' isn't worth much.
    Neither is "sort of thinking". :smile:
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731
    Leon said:

    Got someone to take a photo of me (on the left)


    Surrounded by hot young women AGAIN. How do you do it?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 782
    edited May 19

    More from @IpsosUK
    : snapshot on key issues

    - Lab lead Con on dealing with cost of living by 15 pts
    - Lab lead Con on levelling up by 21 pts
    - Con lead Lab on growing economy by 9 pts
    - Parties neck & neck on managing relations with EU



    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1527252576848191493/photo/1

    Suggests the timing and nature of any summer/autumn budget or intervention key
    I think the longer the cost of living crisis goes on unabated then that Tory lead on growing the economy is going to shrink.
    They need to find towards furlough level of intervention and cover it with massive growth. Huge infrastructure projects. Blue sky macguffins everywhere.
    Turn on the taps this time.
    I'd plump for 1950s state house building program. Focus on training younglings and building good quality stock 50/50 council to private.

    Plus it would fuck Persimmon, Berkeley and Wimpey. That £110million/£75million bonus should never be forgotten.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    One for @ydoethur - I’m in a proper Vlach village. A fascinating people. Sort of gypsy-shepherds of the Balkans. And the name is exactly the same as Welsh - it comes from old German “walh” - foreigner - = the Anglo Saxon “wealh”, foreigner: Welsh

    The name is also linked to the words for shepherd, and bandit, which also sounds about right. Also known as Aromanians. Iechydd da

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.

    That's the point though. He's trying to make being more honourable than Boz some sort of fabulous trait. It's not aiming for the stars is it.
    He's making the mistake of thinking that means his resignation would carry some positive reaction. It won't.
    Maybe he’s not making that mistake. Maybe he’s not doing this as a political tactic. Maybe he’s said this because he actually is a decent guy who respects his legal training and thinks the same rules should apply to everyone.

    Johnson has lied his entire career. He’s been sacked twice for lying. He lied about the Northern Ireland Protocol. It’s not difficult to believe that everything he does is entirely for cynical reasons. I like to believe that that does not apply to all politicians.
    If he quits its because he broke the law he eagerly supported imposing on the rest of us. Who cares if he believes himself honourable? If he were he'd have stuck to the law and not taken the piss.
    'I'm not like the other boys' is a cop out.
    You're talking about Boris Johnson? Entirely agree.
    Lol, I mean if we are going to argue on 'smelt it dealt it' levels of maturity then let's not bother. You're wrong and i'll leave it at that. EXEES on any comeback
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 3,953
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is going to rattle some cages in the Commons.

    The civil courts are more likely to provide a means of restitution than the broken criminal justice system.

    Ex-Labour MP must pay £434k damages to woman he repeatedly assaulted
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/19/mike-hill-ex-labour-mp-compensation-woman-sexually-assaulted

    ....None of that is to say that the criminal process for sexual offences works well... it's just that this case doesn't necessarily show it.
    I clearly didn't express my thoughts very well.

    It's not that this case shows anything in particular about the criminal justice system - rather that it sets something of a precedent, as it's the first such award against an MP.

    The plaintiff also compared the process with going through the Parliamentary investigation route:
    ...“It is important that the many women who have been sexually harassed and assaulted by MPs know that there is another way of seeking justice and compensation for their losses,” she said.

    “The parliamentary investigation route, which I went through, is arduous and very tough and conducted in private.

    “Pursuing Mike Hill through the courts has meant that I might receive compensation for my financial losses and the process seems much more open and transparent.”

    Woman A said the decision to take on Hill had nevertheless left her homeless, traumatised by post-traumatic stress disorder, suffering from severe depressive disorder and with limited prospects of a career.

    “I have gone through two and a half years of hell. I left my job with nothing while he took his pension, and several months’ pay and was covered by £250,000 towards his legal fees. I had to crowdfund my case. The system, even through the courts, is weighted in favour of MPs,” she said...


    It may be the first award against an MP for the particular type of conduct, but there have been lots of successful Employment Tribunal cases against MPs (and also lots of claims against employers generally for sexual harassment).

    So it's interesting but not precedent setting (indeed, legally, it isn't a precedent at all unless appealed to the Employment Appeals Tribunal, but I get your point more informally).
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 1,698

    Leon said:

    Got someone to take a photo of me (on the left)


    Surrounded by hot young women AGAIN. How do you do it?
    Have you seen the size of his personality?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Got someone to take a photo of me (on the left)


    Not sure about the tattoo, but you look pretty good for a 50 something. Quite convincing tuck too.
    Doing quite a convincing impersonation of a Wall Lizard ...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 3,994
    edited May 19

    More from @IpsosUK
    : snapshot on key issues

    - Lab lead Con on dealing with cost of living by 15 pts
    - Lab lead Con on levelling up by 21 pts
    - Con lead Lab on growing economy by 9 pts
    - Parties neck & neck on managing relations with EU



    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1527252576848191493/photo/1

    Suggests the timing and nature of any summer/autumn budget or intervention key
    I think the longer the cost of living crisis goes on unabated then that Tory lead on growing the economy is going to shrink.
    They need to find towards furlough level of intervention and cover it with massive growth. Huge infrastructure projects. Blue sky macguffins everywhere.
    Turn on the taps this time.
    I'd plump for 1950s state house building program. Focus on training younglings and building good quality stock 50/50 council to private.

    Plus it would fuck Persimmon, Berkeley and Wimpey. That £110million/£75million bonus should never be forgotten.
    Yes, I'm in favour of that. And of proper, integrated public transport systems based on light rail/tram in the cities with bus services redicerted into county/suburb services into city edge hubs for transit in.
    Clean, bright city centres easy to navigate. Modern joined up thinking that addresses overuse of cars.
    Do it!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,376
    edited May 19

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.
    Nope, he didn’t say that the PM should resign for getting an FPN, he said that the PM should resign for being under investigation for the offence that resulted in the FPN.

    Now that he’s under investigation himself, for the same offence, he’s remarkably quiet about it.
    Ever since BJ was fined, Starmer has said BJ should resign because he received an FPN.

    Should he have called for BJ’s resignation when he was still just under investigation? Perhaps not. I’m not arguing Starmer is perfect. I didn’t vote for him and I live in his constituency. But on the topic of the possibility he might resign, which was where we started, I respect he has applied the same rules to himself as to others.
    Getting a FPN for a slice of cake in your office should be as much of a resignation offence as a FPN for a speeding offence. Less maybe, speeding kills.

    Parties yes, but nobody sane would call cake at the office at lunchtime a party.

    I called for Boris to go, but I expected him to be fined for more than a frigging cake.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,208

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting to see where “ratings” go now Boris has been exonerated,

    Whilst Starmer is still mired and sweating away in his scandal.

    And a first, on a phone, on a hill, with blood on my hands 😇

    Johnson has not been exonerated. He is still in shit creek. There is still no paddle. A possible undercurrent has not materialised and he has not sunk further into the mire. Maybe he feels he has something to cheer about. On the other hand, Sue Gray has re-appeared and is approaching on a speedboat, but is she here to pull him out or push him under?
    Yet the most likely person to resign at this point, is the leader of the opposition.
    That’s for the fairly obvious reason that the leader of the opposition has some honour and decency, while the PM doesn’t.
    Or that he went all-in on turning the most minor of offences into the biggest issue facing the country, while being a total hypocrite about it.
    How is he being a hypocrite? He said BJ should resign for getting an FPN. He’s said he will resign if he gets an FPN. He is applying the same principle to himself as to others.

    Maybe it’s bad political tactics, but it’s more honourable than Johnson… if calling someone more honourable than Johnson isn’t damning with faint praise.
    Nope, he didn’t say that the PM should resign for getting an FPN, he said that the PM should resign for being under investigation for the offence that resulted in the FPN.

    Now that he’s under investigation himself, for the same offence, he’s remarkably quiet about it.
    Ever since BJ was fined, Starmer has said BJ should resign because he received an FPN.

    Should he have called for BJ’s resignation when he was still just under investigation? Perhaps not. I’m not arguing Starmer is perfect. I didn’t vote for him and I live in his constituency. But on the topic of the possibility he might resign, which was where we started, I respect he has applied the same rules to himself as to others.
    Getting a FPN for a slice of cake in your office should be as much of a resignation offence as a FPN for a speeding offence. Less maybe, speeding kills.

    Parties yes, but nobody sane would call cake at the office at lunchtime a party.

    I called for Boris to go, but I expected him to be fined for more than a frigging cake.
    Don’t forget that the birthday cake wasn’t even cut up and eaten. This was in the initial leak of the Gray report.

    The PM, Chancellor and their teams were quite literally ambushed by Mrs Johnson and some junior staff with the cake.

    (How is your wife, by the way?)
This discussion has been closed.