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Potty punters continue to make Burnham favourite to succeed Starmer – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    carnforth said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    The problem with Brexit in its current state is this government has made a conscious decision to not even give a few scraps to the 48%.

    The problem with Brexit is the 52% got fuck all either.

    More expensive food.

    More immigrants.

    More red tape.

    It's almost like the whole thing was a crock of shit all along...
    Food prices:



    I doubt the lower food inflation is brexit-related, but it is lower.
    That's a slightly flattering chart for the UK, because it basically starts just as the post Brexit referendum depreciation of Sterling bottomed out.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    edited May 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Some positives for Nandy.
    Comprehensive educated. Female. Ethnic minority. Northern. Soft left. Soft Brexiter. Though voted Remain (as did many Cabinet Ministers).
    Ticks several boxes.

    Think she wouldn’t scare the moderate Tory voting shires either.
    She is a complete lightweight and a republican like Corbyn, which we Tories would make damn sure the Tory shires know about.

    She is too Brexity for Remainers who would start to shift back to the LDs (remember Labour lost more votes to the LDs in 2019 than the Tories), while still not Brexity enough for Boris backing Leavers in the redwall.

    She so has no charisma unlike Burnham or Streeting and no gravitas unlike Starmer or Cooper or even Reeves. Heck, even Rayner would be a better option for Labour than Nandy
    Big reason why Makerfield stayed Labour and Leigh didn't despite slightly worse demographics.
    Lots of voters thought they were voting for Lisa Nandy the "Wigan" MP.
    She's pretty well liked in a classic Red Wall town.
    PS.
    Streeting has charisma?
    It's in the eye of the beholder I know. But crikey.
    I thought Makerfield was Yvonne Forvague (sp?)
    Or is that your point - Lisa's charms not only win her own seat but her neighbours' too?
    I'm only going off anecdotal reports from my Mother. Leigh sees itself in opposition to Wigan.
    Makerfield, which could easily be named Wigan South, (the less posh bit) is firmly Wigan.
    Mums's canvassing reports said many in Makerfield said they'd vote Labour cos they liked Lisa Nandy the Wigan MP.
    I see - yes, that sounds right. 'Take Back Control' in Leigh means and since 1974 has only ever meant from Wigan.
    I did a consultation event in Atherton a couple of years back - to hear people there talk it was as if the streets of Wigan were paved in the gold stolen from the good hardworking people of all the other towns in the borough. To hear Wigan described in the terms of a decadent metropole was slightly jarring.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited May 2022

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine responds to Macron’s ‘decades’ comments.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1524116898387963904
    Ukraine expects membership candidate status by the EU in June. “Then we will sit down with you and resolve the rest of the issues. How. When, and so forth.” “If we don’t get the candidate status, it means that Europe is trying to trick us,"—Ukrainian FM

    I seem to remember East Germany getting membership very quickly.
    I recall Thatcher opposing reunification.
    Am I right in thinking it was down to instinctive resistance to a strong, militarised Germany?
    No - she had this crazy idea that a reunited Germany would be bigger than France, economically and politically, and would end up dominating the politics of Europe.

    Totally wrong there, wasn’t she?
    If she felt that was so big a negative it meant Germany should not be reunited, yes, she was massively wrong. It's the sort of thing someone who has been leader too long comes up with, overthinking things in an attempt to be the Bismarkian statesman playing geopolitical games they are in their own heads.
    You could argue that reunification and expansion of EU easy led to a mad rush to try and get to a United States of Europe in the lifetimes of somewhat elderly politicians.

    Said rush created the Greek crisis and BREXIT. Also gave us Orban pissing out the windows. And the current Polish government is a joy to behold…
    Much could be argued, but Thatcher was not a seer. I really doubt her reasoning extended to being able to predict even the generality of events taking places 30 years hence, indeed your own summary of her views was nothing more than simplistic fear that Germany would be more powerful, as if that inevitably would lead, rather tangentially, to crises at the periphery.

    Seems no more than the typical over egging of Thatcher's judgement and impact, positive and negative, that thankfully is becoming less frequent over the years.
    The problem - which she foresaw - was that the dynamic of Europe changed from U.K., France and West Germany as kinda-equal, to German being the biggest.

    We have just seen the latest fallout of that dominance - Germany pushed for Russian gas, despite many others in Europe saying hang on. Only Putin managed to stop Nord Stream ….
    She foresaw that if things changed then things would change? What a prognosticator!
    One country dominating has turned out to be bad for Europe.

    As opposed to 3 sort of equal large countries with states such as Italy and Spain being close in clout, in many ways.

    If you don’t want to see that - fine.
    I think you are extrapolating many very specific policy things we don't like as being inevitably a consequence of the unification of germany, when that level of policy detail could well have arisen for other reasons. By your own reasoning those other 'equal large countries' should also be broken down even further so they do not dominate the other nations of Europe, yet I doubt that was your intention. By your logic if we were all equally sized that would be best for Europe, yet you seem to arbitrarily decide other big states are fine, but not Germany as it is too big. Others might same the same for us, or France.

    If you don't want to see that, and prefer to imagine Thatcher was being totally rational in thinking two parts of a country coming together was so terrible because it led to a more powerful country - fine.

    I just find the continued demands from some quarters we bow before the wisdom of Thatcher for a primary school level of analysis - big country is more dominant - as if she was a great sage (or that a gas pipeline project 30 years later certainly was impossible without unification) pretty laughable.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine responds to Macron’s ‘decades’ comments.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1524116898387963904
    Ukraine expects membership candidate status by the EU in June. “Then we will sit down with you and resolve the rest of the issues. How. When, and so forth.” “If we don’t get the candidate status, it means that Europe is trying to trick us,"—Ukrainian FM

    I seem to remember East Germany getting membership very quickly.
    I recall Thatcher opposing reunification.
    Am I right in thinking it was down to instinctive resistance to a strong, militarised Germany?
    No - she had this crazy idea that a reunited Germany would be bigger than France, economically and politically, and would end up dominating the politics of Europe.

    Totally wrong there, wasn’t she?
    Clearly not. Yet imagine Putin's invasion of Ukraine, in world where German remained divided East & West.

    Likely a less-pretty picture than what we've got today.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    rcs1000 said:

    I posted this near the end of the last thread; since I got no response, I thought I'd try again:

    Okay, so Brexit is done. I'm putting my 'bloke on the Clapham omnibus who voted for Brexit' hat on and asking - what difference has it made to my life? I'm struggling. I'm aware of some downsides, though they don't affect me much. But what are the upsides? Okay, I hear that wages have risen in some, but not that many, low-skilled sectors, but that may be as much due to Covid as Brexit, and anyway I don't work in a low-skilled sector.

    So a serious, genuine question. How has Brexit benefitted me, who voted for it? How has my government used these new freedoms/sovereignty to improve my life? If it was such a good idea, people ought to be able to answer this by now, with specific, tangible examples that affect me - but I'm struggling. Help.

    Did you get your vaccine? Brexit benefitted you from not being locked into some half-arsed Euro arrangement. It quite possibly saved the life of a friend or family member.

    Our being outside was also a spur to the EU to get their shit together. Having Brexit Britain jabbed up whilst the EU's citizens died created a political imperative to shift their arses.

    If the Referendum had locked us into ever closer union, I strongly suspect the UK would have been closed down from helping Ukraine to the level we have. We would have been trapped into some EU-wide foot-dragging whilst Kyiv fell.

    Plus - Nigel Farage is out of a job. His soap box taken away. Surely that counts for something?
    1. I'd have got my vaccine if we'd still been in the EU.

    2. Well done! Getting rid of Nigel Farage is a definite plus plus plus. Whether Brexit is worth it...
    I think you need to go back and re-remember how the EU tried to fuck us over on vaccines.... Because we were making them look bad.

    Macron commenting on the quality of our vaccine ring any bells?
    Sure Macron's a bellend (something we all know).

    I actually think that Brexit benefitted both the EU and the UK wrt vaccines. Our early outperformance led them to throw caution to the wind and make a massive Pfizer order. The consequence of which is that - after a rocky couple of initial months - the EU ended up performing quite well with vaccines.
    In 'Guns, Germs and Steel', Jared Diamond argues (slightly speculatively, it feels, in contrast to the other far more convincing arguments about other geographies) that the reason why Europe has outperformed China over the last 500 years is due to Europe splintering into competing states and statelets. Unity is therefore not strength, but weakness, for unity leads to complacency and stagnation, while separation leads to competition. This would be an example of that.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    mwadams said:

    kle4 said:

    EXCLUSIVE

    I am told documents have been passed to Durham Police that Labour claims exonerate Starmer and prove comprehensively that he did follow the rules.

    And the Daily Mail don't have Beer-probably not-Gate on their front page. Instead, they have found an even bigger foe to conquer;

    DEATH KNELL FOR WORK FROM HOME
    New law to make WFH easier axed from Queen's Speech

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1524140152167227392
    Death knell seems dramatic even for them. Plenty of places are getting by WFH just now without whatever law was previously intended to make it easier.
    We've settled on a hybrid model - come into work two days a week, same days as your team; work from home the other days. It's fairly widely accepted. But I know of several other organisations that now allow 100% wfh, and they are getting a real recruitment edge, since people can live in the cheapest nice place in the country (or indeed overseas) and enjoy their preferred lifestyle regardless of where their employer is.

    Irrespective of how we feel about this, where would PBers choose to live if they were allowed to work from anywhere, weighing up both enjoyment and cost? Say the same time zone, with good broadband, so you can't pick the Seychelles.

    I'd probably go back to Nottingham, which I suspect is not a universal choice...
    "I know of several other organisations that now allow 100% wfh, and they are getting a real recruitment edge,"

    Personally FWIW I think this is awful and utterly depressing if true that people would rather stay at home and only meet work mates once a month or so.

    Atomisation.

    And of course only available to the laptop class of society.

    Having thoroughly enjoyed our monthly get-together today (not to mention a weekly meetup with nearby colleagues) I vastly prefer the 5 years we've spent 100% remote, spending time with my family, rather than hours of commuting.
    It's the commuting thing that seems key from a social point of view. In general, it isn't fun sucks up hours of time and lots of money and causes quite a lot of pollution.

    If we can collectively redirect that energy into families and communites, the gains in happiness are potenially huge.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    Elon Musk would reverse Donald Trump's Twitter ban
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61399483

    What will be missed in the predictable meltdown incoming, is the much more interesting investor deck, Musk plan is to triple the user base, move away from dependence on advertising revenue and overall 5x increase in revenue in the next 5 years. That is quite some goals he has set himself.

    It is worth noting that the meltdown in tech stocks has made Musk's Twitter bid rather less certain than it was. Simply, with Tesla down 30%, his ability to borrow against his stake is much reduced.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine responds to Macron’s ‘decades’ comments.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1524116898387963904
    Ukraine expects membership candidate status by the EU in June. “Then we will sit down with you and resolve the rest of the issues. How. When, and so forth.” “If we don’t get the candidate status, it means that Europe is trying to trick us,"—Ukrainian FM

    I seem to remember East Germany getting membership very quickly.
    I recall Thatcher opposing reunification.
    Am I right in thinking it was down to instinctive resistance to a strong, militarised Germany?
    No - she had this crazy idea that a reunited Germany would be bigger than France, economically and politically, and would end up dominating the politics of Europe.

    Totally wrong there, wasn’t she?
    Clearly not. Yet imagine Putin's invasion of Ukraine, in world where German remained divided East & West.

    Likely a less-pretty picture than what we've got today.

    I don't think a united Germany has been particularly helpful in impeding Putin's progress. It's hard to imagine how two separate Germanies could have been much worse, frankly.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Some positives for Nandy.
    Comprehensive educated. Female. Ethnic minority. Northern. Soft left. Soft Brexiter. Though voted Remain (as did many Cabinet Ministers).
    Ticks several boxes.

    Think she wouldn’t scare the moderate Tory voting shires either.
    She is a complete lightweight and a republican like Corbyn, which we Tories would make damn sure the Tory shires know about.

    She is too Brexity for Remainers who would start to shift back to the LDs (remember Labour lost more votes to the LDs in 2019 than the Tories), while still not Brexity enough for Boris backing Leavers in the redwall.

    She so has no charisma unlike Burnham or Streeting and no gravitas unlike Starmer or Cooper or even Reeves. Heck, even Rayner would be a better option for Labour than Nandy
    Big reason why Makerfield stayed Labour and Leigh didn't despite slightly worse demographics.
    Lots of voters thought they were voting for Lisa Nandy the "Wigan" MP.
    She's pretty well liked in a classic Red Wall town.
    PS.
    Streeting has charisma?
    It's in the eye of the beholder I know. But crikey.
    I thought Makerfield was Yvonne Forvague (sp?)
    Or is that your point - Lisa's charms not only win her own seat but her neighbours' too?
    I'm only going off anecdotal reports from my Mother. Leigh sees itself in opposition to Wigan.
    Makerfield, which could easily be named Wigan South, (the less posh bit) is firmly Wigan.
    Mums's canvassing reports said many in Makerfield said they'd vote Labour cos they liked Lisa Nandy the Wigan MP.
    I see - yes, that sounds right. 'Take Back Control' in Leigh means and since 1974 has only ever meant from Wigan.
    I did a consultation event in Atherton a couple of years back - to hear people there talk it was as if the streets of Wigan were paved in the gold stolen from the good hardworking people of all the other towns in the borough. To hear Wigan described in the terms of a decadent metropole was slightly jarring.
    There are some very nice villages in the Wigan constituency. Standish, Shevington, Aspull. They'd be firmly Tory if transported to Hertfordshire. And in Leigh too. Lowton, Astley, Mosley Common.
    Not so Makerfield constituency.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I posted this near the end of the last thread; since I got no response, I thought I'd try again:

    Okay, so Brexit is done. I'm putting my 'bloke on the Clapham omnibus who voted for Brexit' hat on and asking - what difference has it made to my life? I'm struggling. I'm aware of some downsides, though they don't affect me much. But what are the upsides? Okay, I hear that wages have risen in some, but not that many, low-skilled sectors, but that may be as much due to Covid as Brexit, and anyway I don't work in a low-skilled sector.

    So a serious, genuine question. How has Brexit benefitted me, who voted for it? How has my government used these new freedoms/sovereignty to improve my life? If it was such a good idea, people ought to be able to answer this by now, with specific, tangible examples that affect me - but I'm struggling. Help.

    Did you get your vaccine? Brexit benefitted you from not being locked into some half-arsed Euro arrangement. It quite possibly saved the life of a friend or family member.

    Our being outside was also a spur to the EU to get their shit together. Having Brexit Britain jabbed up whilst the EU's citizens died created a political imperative to shift their arses.

    If the Referendum had locked us into ever closer union, I strongly suspect the UK would have been closed down from helping Ukraine to the level we have. We would have been trapped into some EU-wide foot-dragging whilst Kyiv fell.

    Plus - Nigel Farage is out of a job. His soap box taken away. Surely that counts for something?
    1. I'd have got my vaccine if we'd still been in the EU.

    2. Well done! Getting rid of Nigel Farage is a definite plus plus plus. Whether Brexit is worth it...
    I think you need to go back and re-remember how the EU tried to fuck us over on vaccines.... Because we were making them look bad.

    Macron commenting on the quality of our vaccine ring any bells?
    Sure Macron's a bellend (something we all know).

    I actually think that Brexit benefitted both the EU and the UK wrt vaccines. Our early outperformance led them to throw caution to the wind and make a massive Pfizer order. The consequence of which is that - after a rocky couple of initial months - the EU ended up performing quite well with vaccines.
    In 'Guns, Germs and Steel', Jared Diamond argues (slightly speculatively, it feels, in contrast to the other far more convincing arguments about other geographies) that the reason why Europe has outperformed China over the last 500 years is due to Europe splintering into competing states and statelets. Unity is therefore not strength, but weakness, for unity leads to complacency and stagnation, while separation leads to competition. This would be an example of that.
    Any theory about why the West outperformed in the last 500 years is bound to be a bit speculative I should think.

    In one of Ian Morris's books 'Why the West Rules - for now', I liked how in amongst all the serious commentary and theorising, he took the time to briefly set out and dismiss some of the more preposterous theories advanced in the past - like racial superiority - and even as a running gag speculated on an outside observers analysis of world development from the perspective of Daniken's mythical aliens.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    kle4 said:

    EXCLUSIVE

    I am told documents have been passed to Durham Police that Labour claims exonerate Starmer and prove comprehensively that he did follow the rules.

    And the Daily Mail don't have Beer-probably not-Gate on their front page. Instead, they have found an even bigger foe to conquer;

    DEATH KNELL FOR WORK FROM HOME
    New law to make WFH easier axed from Queen's Speech

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1524140152167227392
    Death knell seems dramatic even for them. Plenty of places are getting by WFH just now without whatever law was previously intended to make it easier.
    We've settled on a hybrid model - come into work two days a week, same days as your team; work from home the other days. It's fairly widely accepted. But I know of several other organisations that now allow 100% wfh, and they are getting a real recruitment edge, since people can live in the cheapest nice place in the country (or indeed overseas) and enjoy their preferred lifestyle regardless of where their employer is.

    Irrespective of how we feel about this, where would PBers choose to live if they were allowed to work from anywhere, weighing up both enjoyment and cost? Say the same time zone, with good broadband, so you can't pick the Seychelles.

    I'd probably go back to Nottingham, which I suspect is not a universal choice...
    The Queen of the Midlands. A fine city.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I posted this near the end of the last thread; since I got no response, I thought I'd try again:

    Okay, so Brexit is done. I'm putting my 'bloke on the Clapham omnibus who voted for Brexit' hat on and asking - what difference has it made to my life? I'm struggling. I'm aware of some downsides, though they don't affect me much. But what are the upsides? Okay, I hear that wages have risen in some, but not that many, low-skilled sectors, but that may be as much due to Covid as Brexit, and anyway I don't work in a low-skilled sector.

    So a serious, genuine question. How has Brexit benefitted me, who voted for it? How has my government used these new freedoms/sovereignty to improve my life? If it was such a good idea, people ought to be able to answer this by now, with specific, tangible examples that affect me - but I'm struggling. Help.

    Did you get your vaccine? Brexit benefitted you from not being locked into some half-arsed Euro arrangement. It quite possibly saved the life of a friend or family member.

    Our being outside was also a spur to the EU to get their shit together. Having Brexit Britain jabbed up whilst the EU's citizens died created a political imperative to shift their arses.

    If the Referendum had locked us into ever closer union, I strongly suspect the UK would have been closed down from helping Ukraine to the level we have. We would have been trapped into some EU-wide foot-dragging whilst Kyiv fell.

    Plus - Nigel Farage is out of a job. His soap box taken away. Surely that counts for something?
    1. I'd have got my vaccine if we'd still been in the EU.

    2. Well done! Getting rid of Nigel Farage is a definite plus plus plus. Whether Brexit is worth it...
    I think you need to go back and re-remember how the EU tried to fuck us over on vaccines.... Because we were making them look bad.

    Macron commenting on the quality of our vaccine ring any bells?
    Sure Macron's a bellend (something we all know).

    I actually think that Brexit benefitted both the EU and the UK wrt vaccines. Our early outperformance led them to throw caution to the wind and make a massive Pfizer order. The consequence of which is that - after a rocky couple of initial months - the EU ended up performing quite well with vaccines.
    In 'Guns, Germs and Steel', Jared Diamond argues (slightly speculatively, it feels, in contrast to the other far more convincing arguments about other geographies) that the reason why Europe has outperformed China over the last 500 years is due to Europe splintering into competing states and statelets. Unity is therefore not strength, but weakness, for unity leads to complacency and stagnation, while separation leads to competition. This would be an example of that.
    Well, surely the best of all worlds is an institutional framework that encourages competition, while providing stability and security?

    I.e., the 30 years war might have been a great example of European competition, but it was pretty shit being a German peasant during that time.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine responds to Macron’s ‘decades’ comments.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1524116898387963904
    Ukraine expects membership candidate status by the EU in June. “Then we will sit down with you and resolve the rest of the issues. How. When, and so forth.” “If we don’t get the candidate status, it means that Europe is trying to trick us,"—Ukrainian FM

    I seem to remember East Germany getting membership very quickly.
    I recall Thatcher opposing reunification.
    Am I right in thinking it was down to instinctive resistance to a strong, militarised Germany?
    No - she had this crazy idea that a reunited Germany would be bigger than France, economically and politically, and would end up dominating the politics of Europe.

    Totally wrong there, wasn’t she?
    Clearly not. Yet imagine Putin's invasion of Ukraine, in world where German remained divided East & West.

    Likely a less-pretty picture than what we've got today.
    In that world, perhaps the USSR wouldn't have been dissolved in the first place.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    mwadams said:

    kle4 said:

    EXCLUSIVE

    I am told documents have been passed to Durham Police that Labour claims exonerate Starmer and prove comprehensively that he did follow the rules.

    And the Daily Mail don't have Beer-probably not-Gate on their front page. Instead, they have found an even bigger foe to conquer;

    DEATH KNELL FOR WORK FROM HOME
    New law to make WFH easier axed from Queen's Speech

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1524140152167227392
    Death knell seems dramatic even for them. Plenty of places are getting by WFH just now without whatever law was previously intended to make it easier.
    We've settled on a hybrid model - come into work two days a week, same days as your team; work from home the other days. It's fairly widely accepted. But I know of several other organisations that now allow 100% wfh, and they are getting a real recruitment edge, since people can live in the cheapest nice place in the country (or indeed overseas) and enjoy their preferred lifestyle regardless of where their employer is.

    Irrespective of how we feel about this, where would PBers choose to live if they were allowed to work from anywhere, weighing up both enjoyment and cost? Say the same time zone, with good broadband, so you can't pick the Seychelles.

    I'd probably go back to Nottingham, which I suspect is not a universal choice...
    "I know of several other organisations that now allow 100% wfh, and they are getting a real recruitment edge,"

    Personally FWIW I think this is awful and utterly depressing if true that people would rather stay at home and only meet work mates once a month or so.

    Atomisation.

    And of course only available to the laptop class of society.

    Having thoroughly enjoyed our monthly get-together today (not to mention a weekly meetup with nearby colleagues) I vastly prefer the 5 years we've spent 100% remote, spending time with my family, rather than hours of commuting.
    It's the commuting thing that seems key from a social point of view. In general, it isn't fun sucks up hours of time and lots of money and causes quite a lot of pollution.

    If we can collectively redirect that energy into families and communites, the gains in happiness are potenially huge.
    Well, yes, but...

    We're drifting back to the office now where I work. And frankly the days scheduled to be in work are a bit of a ballache - they involve getting up earlier, thinking about what to wear, planning ahead to make sure there is a parent to take the kids to school, making sure there are arrangements to pick the kids up; they preclude things like popping to the butchers because you haven't planned your meals properly, or welcoming the Tesco delivery, or putting the laundry on...
    But on the days when I've been in the office I come back feeling physically and mentally in better shape than any time in the last two years. And I am chatty: I have things from the outside world to relay to my wife and daughters. It does me good, though I was reluctant to go in the morning, wondering if there was an excue I could make. And I enjoy a day physically at work far more than a day in the back bedroom. And I am far more productive - partly through proximity to the sort of people I need to talk to, partly because I'm not doing things like welcoming the Tesco delivery.
    I don't really know where the extra time I regained from commuting has gone, frankly. I don't have an extra hour in the day. I don't work longer hours. The Things To Do just fill up the time available. And I liked commuting. I read books. I had half an hour to myself between the responsibilities of work and the responsibilities of home.

    I'm not saying we should go back to 2019 (though maybe we'd be genuinely happier if we did). But the benefits of the office are underplayed.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,960
    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is this a piss take ?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1524120716148363271
    Hungarian President Viktor Orban asserted that parts of the Adriatic Sea coast had been “taken” from Hungary.

    He said Hungary would not have problems with🇷🇺oil embargo if the sea which is now the Croatian coast had not been "taken."

    Basically all of Croatia lies between Hungary and the sea. Is Orban proposing getting rid of Croatia?
    FIrst, regain the "Territory of Fiume" with Hungary granted free-trade & unrestricted transit rights.

    Then entice (ways & means open) Croatia into union with Hungary (perhaps a United Kingdom with Orban as regent like Horthy in the old days). The most-favored semi-nation (think Belarus West).

    All this AFTER Putin's reversal of current military situation, resulting in transfer of Subcarpathia from Ukraine to . . . guess who?! Creating further opportunities to roll back Treaty of Trianon by restoring southern Slovakia as well as debatable lands in Slovenia to Budapest's bailiwick from sloppy Slav misrule. And don't forget Burgenland, stolen by the perfidious Austrians.

    PLUS what is JOB ONE for any self-respecting Magyar irredentist: liberation of Transylvania (including Partium) from clutches of randy Romanians and the vampires of Bucharest.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    What has @Cookie got against women wearing lipstick? Poor Bridget!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine responds to Macron’s ‘decades’ comments.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1524116898387963904
    Ukraine expects membership candidate status by the EU in June. “Then we will sit down with you and resolve the rest of the issues. How. When, and so forth.” “If we don’t get the candidate status, it means that Europe is trying to trick us,"—Ukrainian FM

    I seem to remember East Germany getting membership very quickly.
    I recall Thatcher opposing reunification.
    Am I right in thinking it was down to instinctive resistance to a strong, militarised Germany?
    No - she had this crazy idea that a reunited Germany would be bigger than France, economically and politically, and would end up dominating the politics of Europe.

    Totally wrong there, wasn’t she?
    Clearly not. Yet imagine Putin's invasion of Ukraine, in world where German remained divided East & West.

    Likely a less-pretty picture than what we've got today.

    I don't think a united Germany has been particularly helpful in impeding Putin's progress. It's hard to imagine how two separate Germanies could have been much worse, frankly.
    An open question for sure.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine responds to Macron’s ‘decades’ comments.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1524116898387963904
    Ukraine expects membership candidate status by the EU in June. “Then we will sit down with you and resolve the rest of the issues. How. When, and so forth.” “If we don’t get the candidate status, it means that Europe is trying to trick us,"—Ukrainian FM

    I seem to remember East Germany getting membership very quickly.
    I recall Thatcher opposing reunification.
    Am I right in thinking it was down to instinctive resistance to a strong, militarised Germany?
    No - she had this crazy idea that a reunited Germany would be bigger than France, economically and politically, and would end up dominating the politics of Europe.

    Totally wrong there, wasn’t she?
    If she felt that was so big a negative it meant Germany should not be reunited, yes, she was massively wrong. It's the sort of thing someone who has been leader too long comes up with, overthinking things in an attempt to be the Bismarkian statesman playing geopolitical games they are in their own heads.
    You could argue that reunification and expansion of EU easy led to a mad rush to try and get to a United States of Europe in the lifetimes of somewhat elderly politicians.

    Said rush created the Greek crisis and BREXIT. Also gave us Orban pissing out the windows. And the current Polish government is a joy to behold…
    I completely agree with the first part of your comment.

    That being said... I think it's all too easy to lay the blame for Greek crisis on the Germans. Ultimately, it was not they who chose to conspire with Goldman Sachs to hide their indebtedness so as to meet accession criteria. And it was not the Germans who chose to take the enormous benefit of lower borrowing costs and to splurge it all on higher government spending.

    Now, sure, should the Germans (and French and Dutch, etc.) have said no to Greece's attempts to enter the Eurozone? Yes, of course they should - as they should have with Italy too, if we're going to be honest. And the reason they didn't was, I'm sure, for the reasons you elucidated.

    But you can't pin the blame solely on them. They were not the only bodies with agency. Others chose to act, and they need to bear the consequences of their actions.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    What has @Cookie got against women wearing lipstick? Poor Bridget!

    Just makes me feel a bit icky. Not a thing I can rationalise, because it's a 'fast thinking' response (i.e. one at the instinctive level of the brain which bypasses the rational) - I genuinely find it a bit repulsive.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2022
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Some positives for Nandy.
    Comprehensive educated. Female. Ethnic minority. Northern. Soft left. Soft Brexiter. Though voted Remain (as did many Cabinet Ministers).
    Ticks several boxes.

    Think she wouldn’t scare the moderate Tory voting shires either.
    She is a complete lightweight and a republican like Corbyn, which we Tories would make damn sure the Tory shires know about.

    She is too Brexity for Remainers who would start to shift back to the LDs (remember Labour lost more votes to the LDs in 2019 than the Tories), while still not Brexity enough for Boris backing Leavers in the redwall.

    She so has no charisma unlike Burnham or Streeting and no gravitas unlike Starmer or Cooper or even Reeves. Heck, even Rayner would be a better option for Labour than Nandy
    Big reason why Makerfield stayed Labour and Leigh didn't despite slightly worse demographics.
    Lots of voters thought they were voting for Lisa Nandy the "Wigan" MP.
    She's pretty well liked in a classic Red Wall town.
    PS.
    Streeting has charisma?
    It's in the eye of the beholder I know. But crikey, that's some statement.
    Result in Nandy's seat of Wigan in 2019? A 9% swing from Labour to the Conservatives, above the 4.5% UK average swing to the Tories.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigan_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

    Result in Streeting's seat of Ilford North in 2019? A 3% swing from Labour to the Conservatives, below the UK average.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilford_North_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
    You appear to think that is an argument.
    Everyone knows the swings were to the Labour in London and worse further north.
    The point is. How to change that?
    Clearly not with Nandy who got one of the highest Labour to Conservative swings in the country in 2019.

    Indeed the swing in Wigan against Labour was worse than that in the NorthWest, the NorthEast and Yorkshire and Humber, never mind just London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_England
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 596
    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine responds to Macron’s ‘decades’ comments.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1524116898387963904
    Ukraine expects membership candidate status by the EU in June. “Then we will sit down with you and resolve the rest of the issues. How. When, and so forth.” “If we don’t get the candidate status, it means that Europe is trying to trick us,"—Ukrainian FM

    I seem to remember East Germany getting membership very quickly.
    East Germany was annexed by an existing member state, not applying from scratch.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I posted this near the end of the last thread; since I got no response, I thought I'd try again:

    Okay, so Brexit is done. I'm putting my 'bloke on the Clapham omnibus who voted for Brexit' hat on and asking - what difference has it made to my life? I'm struggling. I'm aware of some downsides, though they don't affect me much. But what are the upsides? Okay, I hear that wages have risen in some, but not that many, low-skilled sectors, but that may be as much due to Covid as Brexit, and anyway I don't work in a low-skilled sector.

    So a serious, genuine question. How has Brexit benefitted me, who voted for it? How has my government used these new freedoms/sovereignty to improve my life? If it was such a good idea, people ought to be able to answer this by now, with specific, tangible examples that affect me - but I'm struggling. Help.

    Did you get your vaccine? Brexit benefitted you from not being locked into some half-arsed Euro arrangement. It quite possibly saved the life of a friend or family member.

    Our being outside was also a spur to the EU to get their shit together. Having Brexit Britain jabbed up whilst the EU's citizens died created a political imperative to shift their arses.

    If the Referendum had locked us into ever closer union, I strongly suspect the UK would have been closed down from helping Ukraine to the level we have. We would have been trapped into some EU-wide foot-dragging whilst Kyiv fell.

    Plus - Nigel Farage is out of a job. His soap box taken away. Surely that counts for something?
    1. I'd have got my vaccine if we'd still been in the EU.

    2. Well done! Getting rid of Nigel Farage is a definite plus plus plus. Whether Brexit is worth it...
    I think you need to go back and re-remember how the EU tried to fuck us over on vaccines.... Because we were making them look bad.

    Macron commenting on the quality of our vaccine ring any bells?
    Sure Macron's a bellend (something we all know).

    I actually think that Brexit benefitted both the EU and the UK wrt vaccines. Our early outperformance led them to throw caution to the wind and make a massive Pfizer order. The consequence of which is that - after a rocky couple of initial months - the EU ended up performing quite well with vaccines.
    In 'Guns, Germs and Steel', Jared Diamond argues (slightly speculatively, it feels, in contrast to the other far more convincing arguments about other geographies) that the reason why Europe has outperformed China over the last 500 years is due to Europe splintering into competing states and statelets. Unity is therefore not strength, but weakness, for unity leads to complacency and stagnation, while separation leads to competition. This would be an example of that.
    Well, surely the best of all worlds is an institutional framework that encourages competition, while providing stability and security?

    I.e., the 30 years war might have been a great example of European competition, but it was pretty shit being a German peasant during that time.
    Yes, the 30 years war was bad, certainly. But institutional frameworks tend to accrete power to themselves and suffocate rather than encourage competition.
    I don't have an answer sadly. What has kept Western Europe peaceful these last sevety five years? Democracy? The EU? Trade? Increasing cross-border living? NATO? Sadly I half suspect it's the presence of a bigger enemy to the east more than any of these other things.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Can remember seeing Mansfield on multiple occasions on "Meet the Press" and similar interviews when he was Senate majority leader. He was renowned for giving short, pithy, generally (or apparently) straight-forward answers, meaning that journos had to prepare twice as many questions for him as for the average victim.

    Ambassador Mansfield was appointed by Jimmy Carter - and reappointed by Ronald Reagan. Which according to the latter's diary, was a much of a surprise to him as everyone else. Done for best of reasons: the President and the Ambassador agreed more than not on US foreign policy in East Asia; and the former realized the latter had the respect and ear of the Japanese.

    Mansfield was a Butte hardrock miner - a legendary breed especially among the Irish- who became a college professor, then a Congressman (he succeeded Jeannette Rankin) then US Senator. And never forgot his roots and never forsook his modest manner, Western breeziness and common touch.

    One trick of the trade he employed as Ambassador, was asking his guests at the Embassy if they'd like a cup of coffee - then making it for them himself. NOT having an office lady or aide but the Himself as the Irish used to say. Mike had a jar of Sanka instant coffee handy with cups and hot water, and would prepare each cup.

    Which even I find shocking, and you kids can scarce grasp such barbarity! Yet believe it or not, instant coffee was accepted as mainstream by millions back in that savage day. Including Mike Mansfield. As the Japanese, they loved it! NOT the coffee, but fact that the freaking United States Ambassador had made it for them, with his own hands.

    Talk about making friends and influencing people.

    Which is NOT to say that all was rosy in US-Japan relations on Mike Mansfield's watch as Ambassador. Ditto his time as Senate Majority Leader during presidencies of JFK, LBJ, Nixon & Carter. He was a Great Compromiser on the national and international stage. (He was also a great campaigner at home in Montana.)

    During Mansfield's long congressional career, from 1943 to 1977, and as one of America's top ambassadors, he fudged, screwed up - but also got a LOT of good done. An approach we need more of. He was a stand-up guy.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine responds to Macron’s ‘decades’ comments.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1524116898387963904
    Ukraine expects membership candidate status by the EU in June. “Then we will sit down with you and resolve the rest of the issues. How. When, and so forth.” “If we don’t get the candidate status, it means that Europe is trying to trick us,"—Ukrainian FM

    I seem to remember East Germany getting membership very quickly.
    I recall Thatcher opposing reunification.
    Am I right in thinking it was down to instinctive resistance to a strong, militarised Germany?
    No - she had this crazy idea that a reunited Germany would be bigger than France, economically and politically, and would end up dominating the politics of Europe.

    Totally wrong there, wasn’t she?
    If she felt that was so big a negative it meant Germany should not be reunited, yes, she was massively wrong. It's the sort of thing someone who has been leader too long comes up with, overthinking things in an attempt to be the Bismarkian statesman playing geopolitical games they are in their own heads.
    You could argue that reunification and expansion of EU easy led to a mad rush to try and get to a United States of Europe in the lifetimes of somewhat elderly politicians.

    Said rush created the Greek crisis and BREXIT. Also gave us Orban pissing out the windows. And the current Polish government is a joy to behold…
    I completely agree with the first part of your comment.

    That being said... I think it's all too easy to lay the blame for Greek crisis on the Germans. Ultimately, it was not they who chose to conspire with Goldman Sachs to hide their indebtedness so as to meet accession criteria. And it was not the Germans who chose to take the enormous benefit of lower borrowing costs and to splurge it all on higher government spending.

    Now, sure, should the Germans (and French and Dutch, etc.) have said no to Greece's attempts to enter the Eurozone? Yes, of course they should - as they should have with Italy too, if we're going to be honest. And the reason they didn't was, I'm sure, for the reasons you elucidated.

    But you can't pin the blame solely on them. They were not the only bodies with agency. Others chose to act, and they need to bear the consequences of their actions.
    So are you one of Berlin's useful idiots? AND where can I sign up?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Talking of (not so) daft odds:

    When will the next referendum on Scottish independence take place? #indyref2

    sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics…


    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/1524039725039951876?s=21&t=t_yWXaVKMB5foNQU0kEJzg

    I expect the Separatists are filling their boots at 5/1.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Whatever happens, this much is true: Nicola Sturgeon is marching her men to the top of the hill and she's running out of hill.

    https://stephendaisley.substack.com/p/sturgeon-wants-a-row-not-a-referendum
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I posted this near the end of the last thread; since I got no response, I thought I'd try again:

    Okay, so Brexit is done. I'm putting my 'bloke on the Clapham omnibus who voted for Brexit' hat on and asking - what difference has it made to my life? I'm struggling. I'm aware of some downsides, though they don't affect me much. But what are the upsides? Okay, I hear that wages have risen in some, but not that many, low-skilled sectors, but that may be as much due to Covid as Brexit, and anyway I don't work in a low-skilled sector.

    So a serious, genuine question. How has Brexit benefitted me, who voted for it? How has my government used these new freedoms/sovereignty to improve my life? If it was such a good idea, people ought to be able to answer this by now, with specific, tangible examples that affect me - but I'm struggling. Help.

    Did you get your vaccine? Brexit benefitted you from not being locked into some half-arsed Euro arrangement. It quite possibly saved the life of a friend or family member.

    Our being outside was also a spur to the EU to get their shit together. Having Brexit Britain jabbed up whilst the EU's citizens died created a political imperative to shift their arses.

    If the Referendum had locked us into ever closer union, I strongly suspect the UK would have been closed down from helping Ukraine to the level we have. We would have been trapped into some EU-wide foot-dragging whilst Kyiv fell.

    Plus - Nigel Farage is out of a job. His soap box taken away. Surely that counts for something?
    1. I'd have got my vaccine if we'd still been in the EU.

    2. Well done! Getting rid of Nigel Farage is a definite plus plus plus. Whether Brexit is worth it...
    I think you need to go back and re-remember how the EU tried to fuck us over on vaccines.... Because we were making them look bad.

    Macron commenting on the quality of our vaccine ring any bells?
    Sure Macron's a bellend (something we all know).

    I actually think that Brexit benefitted both the EU and the UK wrt vaccines. Our early outperformance led them to throw caution to the wind and make a massive Pfizer order. The consequence of which is that - after a rocky couple of initial months - the EU ended up performing quite well with vaccines.
    In 'Guns, Germs and Steel', Jared Diamond argues (slightly speculatively, it feels, in contrast to the other far more convincing arguments about other geographies) that the reason why Europe has outperformed China over the last 500 years is due to Europe splintering into competing states and statelets. Unity is therefore not strength, but weakness, for unity leads to complacency and stagnation, while separation leads to competition. This would be an example of that.
    Well, surely the best of all worlds is an institutional framework that encourages competition, while providing stability and security?

    I.e., the 30 years war might have been a great example of European competition, but it was pretty shit being a German peasant during that time.
    Yes, the 30 years war was bad, certainly. But institutional frameworks tend to accrete power to themselves and suffocate rather than encourage competition.
    I don't have an answer sadly. What has kept Western Europe peaceful these last sevety five years? Democracy? The EU? Trade? Increasing cross-border living? NATO? Sadly I half suspect it's the presence of a bigger enemy to the east more than any of these other things.
    Like all things, there's not 'one thing' - and attempts to find that magic ingredient are just another example of the sole actor fallacy.

    I agree that the EU stifles innovation and competition, for exactly the reasons you posit. Small and nimble beats big and monolithic any day of the week.

    But there's also a middle ground: one where the security concerns of all are ameliorated, where trade is free, and there's a framework for dispute resolution. Building that while avoiding the inertia and empire building that comes with all institutions is the challenge.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    "Why Team Johnson is celebrating
    The Tories see a way to hold onto power
    Matthew Goodwin"

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/why-team-johnson-is-celebrating/

    Goodwin is usually worth reading in my opinion.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Andy_JS said:

    "Why Team Johnson is celebrating
    The Tories see a way to hold onto power
    Matthew Goodwin"

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/why-team-johnson-is-celebrating/

    Goodwin is usually worth reading in my opinion.

    He is, albeit he has a tendency to start at the conclusion and work back.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    EXCLUSIVE

    I am told documents have been passed to Durham Police that Labour claims exonerate Starmer and prove comprehensively that he did follow the rules.

    And the Daily Mail don't have Beer-probably not-Gate on their front page. Instead, they have found an even bigger foe to conquer;

    DEATH KNELL FOR WORK FROM HOME
    New law to make WFH easier axed from Queen's Speech

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1524140152167227392
    Death knell seems dramatic even for them. Plenty of places are getting by WFH just now without whatever law was previously intended to make it easier.
    We've settled on a hybrid model - come into work two days a week, same days as your team; work from home the other days. It's fairly widely accepted. But I know of several other organisations that now allow 100% wfh, and they are getting a real recruitment edge, since people can live in the cheapest nice place in the country (or indeed overseas) and enjoy their preferred lifestyle regardless of where their employer is.

    Irrespective of how we feel about this, where would PBers choose to live if they were allowed to work from anywhere, weighing up both enjoyment and cost? Say the same time zone, with good broadband, so you can't pick the Seychelles.

    I'd probably go back to Nottingham, which I suspect is not a universal choice...
    "I know of several other organisations that now allow 100% wfh, and they are getting a real recruitment edge,"

    Personally FWIW I think this is awful and utterly depressing if true that people would rather stay at home and only meet work mates once a month or so.

    Atomisation.

    And of course only available to the laptop class of society.

    Capitalism is about choice. Can't buck the market? Suck it up.
    I have several work colleagues I'd prefer not to see once a decade.
    Odd the current Tories seem so uncomfortable with that idea.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I posted this near the end of the last thread; since I got no response, I thought I'd try again:

    Okay, so Brexit is done. I'm putting my 'bloke on the Clapham omnibus who voted for Brexit' hat on and asking - what difference has it made to my life? I'm struggling. I'm aware of some downsides, though they don't affect me much. But what are the upsides? Okay, I hear that wages have risen in some, but not that many, low-skilled sectors, but that may be as much due to Covid as Brexit, and anyway I don't work in a low-skilled sector.

    So a serious, genuine question. How has Brexit benefitted me, who voted for it? How has my government used these new freedoms/sovereignty to improve my life? If it was such a good idea, people ought to be able to answer this by now, with specific, tangible examples that affect me - but I'm struggling. Help.

    Did you get your vaccine? Brexit benefitted you from not being locked into some half-arsed Euro arrangement. It quite possibly saved the life of a friend or family member.

    Our being outside was also a spur to the EU to get their shit together. Having Brexit Britain jabbed up whilst the EU's citizens died created a political imperative to shift their arses.

    If the Referendum had locked us into ever closer union, I strongly suspect the UK would have been closed down from helping Ukraine to the level we have. We would have been trapped into some EU-wide foot-dragging whilst Kyiv fell.

    Plus - Nigel Farage is out of a job. His soap box taken away. Surely that counts for something?
    1. I'd have got my vaccine if we'd still been in the EU.

    2. Well done! Getting rid of Nigel Farage is a definite plus plus plus. Whether Brexit is worth it...
    I think you need to go back and re-remember how the EU tried to fuck us over on vaccines.... Because we were making them look bad.

    Macron commenting on the quality of our vaccine ring any bells?
    Sure Macron's a bellend (something we all know).

    I actually think that Brexit benefitted both the EU and the UK wrt vaccines. Our early outperformance led them to throw caution to the wind and make a massive Pfizer order. The consequence of which is that - after a rocky couple of initial months - the EU ended up performing quite well with vaccines.
    In 'Guns, Germs and Steel', Jared Diamond argues (slightly speculatively, it feels, in contrast to the other far more convincing arguments about other geographies) that the reason why Europe has outperformed China over the last 500 years is due to Europe splintering into competing states and statelets. Unity is therefore not strength, but weakness, for unity leads to complacency and stagnation, while separation leads to competition. This would be an example of that.
    Any theory about why the West outperformed in the last 500 years is bound to be a bit speculative I should think….
    And needs to account for the last two or three decades, which rather change the picture.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Really interesting interview with the (liberal opposition) mayor of Warsaw.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/10/eastern-flank-alliance-warsaw-poland-democracy-00031386
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I posted this near the end of the last thread; since I got no response, I thought I'd try again:

    Okay, so Brexit is done. I'm putting my 'bloke on the Clapham omnibus who voted for Brexit' hat on and asking - what difference has it made to my life? I'm struggling. I'm aware of some downsides, though they don't affect me much. But what are the upsides? Okay, I hear that wages have risen in some, but not that many, low-skilled sectors, but that may be as much due to Covid as Brexit, and anyway I don't work in a low-skilled sector.

    So a serious, genuine question. How has Brexit benefitted me, who voted for it? How has my government used these new freedoms/sovereignty to improve my life? If it was such a good idea, people ought to be able to answer this by now, with specific, tangible examples that affect me - but I'm struggling. Help.

    Did you get your vaccine? Brexit benefitted you from not being locked into some half-arsed Euro arrangement. It quite possibly saved the life of a friend or family member.

    Our being outside was also a spur to the EU to get their shit together. Having Brexit Britain jabbed up whilst the EU's citizens died created a political imperative to shift their arses.

    If the Referendum had locked us into ever closer union, I strongly suspect the UK would have been closed down from helping Ukraine to the level we have. We would have been trapped into some EU-wide foot-dragging whilst Kyiv fell.

    Plus - Nigel Farage is out of a job. His soap box taken away. Surely that counts for something?
    1. I'd have got my vaccine if we'd still been in the EU.

    2. Well done! Getting rid of Nigel Farage is a definite plus plus plus. Whether Brexit is worth it...
    I think you need to go back and re-remember how the EU tried to fuck us over on vaccines.... Because we were making them look bad.

    Macron commenting on the quality of our vaccine ring any bells?
    Sure Macron's a bellend (something we all know).

    I actually think that Brexit benefitted both the EU and the UK wrt vaccines. Our early outperformance led them to throw caution to the wind and make a massive Pfizer order. The consequence of which is that - after a rocky couple of initial months - the EU ended up performing quite well with vaccines.
    In 'Guns, Germs and Steel', Jared Diamond argues (slightly speculatively, it feels, in contrast to the other far more convincing arguments about other geographies) that the reason why Europe has outperformed China over the last 500 years is due to Europe splintering into competing states and statelets. Unity is therefore not strength, but weakness, for unity leads to complacency and stagnation, while separation leads to competition. This would be an example of that.
    And yet you’re a Unionist.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    The Ukraine aid bill PASSES on a 368-57 vote.

    No House Dems opposed.

    https://twitter.com/nicholaswu12/status/1524209775415906305
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Why Team Johnson is celebrating
    The Tories see a way to hold onto power
    Matthew Goodwin"

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/why-team-johnson-is-celebrating/

    Goodwin is usually worth reading in my opinion.

    He is, albeit he has a tendency to start at the conclusion and work back.
    I can see that tendency in his writing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    edited May 2022
    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    Trump Kept Asking if China Was Shooting Us With a ‘Hurricane Gun’
    The then-leader of the free world also inquired whether the U.S. could bomb China in retaliation for the alleged hurricane attack

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-hurricane-gun-china-world-war-1350638/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Trump Kept Asking if China Was Shooting Us With a ‘Hurricane Gun’
    The then-leader of the free world also inquired whether the U.S. could bomb China in retaliation for the alleged hurricane attack

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-hurricane-gun-china-world-war-1350638/

    increasingly, in recent months, I find myself looking at news stories as I think, with a sense of discomfort - Fuck, was Trump right about that, AS WELL?

    Lab leak, Germany and Nord Strream, maybe Chinese hurricanes?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
    Random thoughts from years spent in international teams for global megacorps are that cross-border and timezone collaboration is good but there can be problems when speaking to customers owing to both language and time of day. A London colleague working with an Australian team, for instance, had no problem with the language but they are 10 hours ahead of us so there is no 9-5 overlap.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    edited May 2022
    This is actually a good example

    Trump apparently asked if China had the capability to alter weather and direct hurricanes at the USA. Rolling Stone says this:


    “This patently boneheaded line of inquiry from Trump..”

    Is it “patently boneheaded”? Absolutely not. Climate change is altering global politics. It is not crazy to ask whether a malign superpower, like China, is attempting to manipulate the climate - the weather - to gain advantage

    Perhaps Trump’s position so far outside the box of mainstream thinking makes him open to ideas that others, part of the groupthink, too swiftly dismiss

    Lab Leak is the classic of the genre
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    edited May 2022

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
    Random thoughts from years spent in international teams for global megacorps are that cross-border and timezone collaboration is good but there can be problems when speaking to customers owing to both language and time of day. A London colleague working with an Australian team, for instance, had no problem with the language but they are 10 hours ahead of us so there is no 9-5 overlap.
    Yes, it’s meetings which are the issue. Even zooms. Sometimes in my job I have to do zoom calls with london and LA simultaneously. Just about possible at end of play in London, quite impractical if you need to add in a Far East time as well

    London is ideally placed between the two, another reason for its success

    And eventually you need to go back and see people in the flesh
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
    Random thoughts from years spent in international teams for global megacorps are that cross-border and timezone collaboration is good but there can be problems when speaking to customers owing to both language and time of day. A London colleague working with an Australian team, for instance, had no problem with the language but they are 10 hours ahead of us so there is no 9-5 overlap.
    Yes, it’s meetings which are the issue. Even zooms. Sometimes in my job I have to do zoom calls with london and LA simultaneously. Just about possible at end of play in London, quite impractical if you need to add in a Far East time as well

    London is ideally placed between the two, another reason for its success

    And eventually you need to go back and see people in the flesh
    Mainly but not always just meetings. It might be that a critical time of day for a customer or industry is outside 9-5 for the home team, which is where global teams can be useful. As you say, there are swings and roundabouts, but often in these discussions people concentrate on whatever they think (sometimes wrongly) will make their life easier and ignore the rest.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    Leon said:

    This is actually a good example

    Trump apparently asked if China had the capability to alter weather and direct hurricanes at the USA. Rolling Stone says this:


    “This patently boneheaded line of inquiry from Trump..”

    Is it “patently boneheaded”? Absolutely not. Climate change is altering global politics. It is not crazy to ask whether a malign superpower, like China, is attempting to manipulate the climate - the weather - to gain advantage

    Perhaps Trump’s position so far outside the box of mainstream thinking makes him open to ideas that others, part of the groupthink, too swiftly dismiss

    Lab Leak is the classic of the genre

    It is not necessarily crazy to ask an outside-the-box question once, but if you keep banging on about it, eyebrows will be raised.

    Note also that your question is more nuanced than Trump's. It might be that China is less concerned about global warming than other countries in different geographies. It might be that China's coal is the butterfly causing hurricanes on the opposite side of the world but that is not the same as a hurricane gun.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Friend of mine in Dubai, here with his wife’s job, works remotely for a Canadian bank. He regularly gets 9pm or 10pm calls. He gets up in the morning, can run his errands and can get quite a bit of his work done before colleagues come online in the late afternoon. Having him in a weird time one can also help with ‘overnight’ tasks for his employer (he’s a software developer for a bank).

    I think most people will settle into some sort of a hybrid system, with time in in the office ranging from a couple of days a week to a couple of days a month, depending on the nature of business and projects.

    For many teams, and over time, the ‘office’ might be a meeting room in an hotel just off the motorway, rather than a very expensive facility in central London.

    As to where people might end up living, for a regular monthly trip to the office it could be literally anywhere, and for a couple of times a week maybe a couple of hours away is doable. For central London that means half of England, plus areas next to an airport 500 or 600 miles away.

    Companies won’t particularly want people on the payroll living primarily in different tax jurisdictions though, as it creates quite a bit of extra paperwork.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    SNP seeking to take leadership of long-held Labour council
    The party won 36 seats on North Lanarkshire council in the local election.

    Labour, which has controlled the local authority since it was founded in 1996, secured 32 seats.

    Meanwhile, the Conservative group on the council was reduced to five councillors, whilst the Greens and the British Unionist Party both won a seat.

    “That Labour, who came second, are trying to cobble together 39 councillors with the support of the Tories and the right-wing BUP is as worrying as it is disgraceful.”

    STV News
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    edited May 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Friend of mine in Dubai, here with his wife’s job, works remotely for a Canadian bank. He regularly gets 9pm or 10pm calls. He gets up in the morning, can run his errands and can get quite a bit of his work done before colleagues come online in the late afternoon. Having him in a weird time one can also help with ‘overnight’ tasks for his employer (he’s a software developer for a bank).

    I think most people will settle into some sort of a hybrid system, with time in in the office ranging from a couple of days a week to a couple of days a month, depending on the nature of business and projects.

    For many teams, and over time, the ‘office’ might be a meeting room in an hotel just off the motorway, rather than a very expensive facility in central London.

    As to where people might end up living, for a regular monthly trip to the office it could be literally anywhere, and for a couple of times a week maybe a couple of hours away is doable. For central London that means half of England, plus areas next to an airport 500 or 600 miles away.

    Companies won’t particularly want people on the payroll living primarily in different tax jurisdictions though, as it creates quite a bit of extra paperwork.
    The tax problem is important and from the silence when I've raised it before, one that even those directly concerned as employer or employee have not even considered. What will you say when a Greek or American tax demand lands on your doormat or when you turn out to be ineligible for welfare programmes including pensions and healthcare?

    International companies have systems in place but even on pb we hear of startups recruiting across the globe.

    ETA and of course these days, there are different income tax rates between England, Scotland and Wales.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    I posted this near the end of the last thread; since I got no response, I thought I'd try again:

    Okay, so Brexit is done. I'm putting my 'bloke on the Clapham omnibus who voted for Brexit' hat on and asking - what difference has it made to my life? I'm struggling. I'm aware of some downsides, though they don't affect me much. But what are the upsides? Okay, I hear that wages have risen in some, but not that many, low-skilled sectors, but that may be as much due to Covid as Brexit, and anyway I don't work in a low-skilled sector.

    So a serious, genuine question. How has Brexit benefitted me, who voted for it? How has my government used these new freedoms/sovereignty to improve my life? If it was such a good idea, people ought to be able to answer this by now, with specific, tangible examples that affect me - but I'm struggling. Help.

    Changing rules on gene editing to allow for regulation based on science rather than bullshit
    But fucking up interrnational cooperation and student flow in science and academia.
    Only with Europe and only because the EU cut off everyone’s nose to spite their face
    If you cancel a club sub the clud does tend to shut off the benefits of membership.
    But not to other non members
    sorry, i thought we'd took back control...
    We did. They said we will charge you a penal rate. We said F off.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-students-lose-participation-in-eu-erasmus-university-exchange-scheme/amp/
    have you ever heard of the term "Pyrrhic Victory"?

    159 countries worldwide, including the US, are part of the Turing Scheme
    and?..
    Not a Pyrrhic victory. From our perspective anyway. Turing offers more opportunities to our students and is cheaper than Erasmus
    so there...naah naah na naaah naah.

    Not sure I get your point?

    Sure it would have been nice to have been part of Erasmus. But we were accommodating more students (at our cost) that our students were benefiting. Do the programme had a net cost* to us. And the EU wanted to charge us a premium rate for the privilege.

    Turing offers more, different, opportunities to our citizens and is cheaper.

    So - as with so many things that the EU insisted on - they made their own people worse off to protect the principle that EU memberships needs to be “better” than non membership. Whatever.

    * I’m ignoring the soft benefits from having foreign students who have spent time in the UK.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    nico679 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    I posted this near the end of the last thread; since I got no response, I thought I'd try again:

    Okay, so Brexit is done. I'm putting my 'bloke on the Clapham omnibus who voted for Brexit' hat on and asking - what difference has it made to my life? I'm struggling. I'm aware of some downsides, though they don't affect me much. But what are the upsides? Okay, I hear that wages have risen in some, but not that many, low-skilled sectors, but that may be as much due to Covid as Brexit, and anyway I don't work in a low-skilled sector.

    So a serious, genuine question. How has Brexit benefitted me, who voted for it? How has my government used these new freedoms/sovereignty to improve my life? If it was such a good idea, people ought to be able to answer this by now, with specific, tangible examples that affect me - but I'm struggling. Help.

    Changing rules on gene editing to allow for regulation based on science rather than bullshit
    But fucking up interrnational cooperation and student flow in science and academia.
    Only with Europe and only because the EU cut off everyone’s nose to spite their face
    If you cancel a club sub the clud does tend to shut off the benefits of membership.
    But not to other non members
    sorry, i thought we'd took back control...
    We did. They said we will charge you a penal rate. We said F off.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-students-lose-participation-in-eu-erasmus-university-exchange-scheme/amp/
    have you ever heard of the term "Pyrrhic Victory"?

    159 countries worldwide, including the US, are part of the Turing Scheme
    It’s a cheap knock off compared to Erasmus . No 10 gave it a good name to try and dupe people .
    Facts and figures please
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
    Random thoughts from years spent in international teams for global megacorps are that cross-border and timezone collaboration is good but there can be problems when speaking to customers owing to both language and time of day. A London colleague working with an Australian team, for instance, had no problem with the language but they are 10 hours ahead of us so there is no 9-5 overlap.
    I’ve actually done 12 hours’ time difference with a supplier before (Dubai and Las Vegas). We ended up settling on 7:30 for calls, and every six months one or other of us spent 24 hours on a plane to meet up for a week.

    Most of the time it’s not too bad, you just have to accept that when there’s something urgent you’re going to have to pull a night shift - but in IT the occasional night shift is normal anyway.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Why Team Johnson is celebrating
    The Tories see a way to hold onto power
    Matthew Goodwin"

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/why-team-johnson-is-celebrating/

    Goodwin is usually worth reading in my opinion.

    He is, albeit he has a tendency to start at the conclusion and work back.
    I can see that tendency in his writing.
    Oh, we're all guilty to a degree, because stepping out of your comfort zone and thinking about why we might be wrong (rather than why we are right) is hard.

    What irritates me, though, is that he is clearly both highly intelligent, and has a great domain expertise. He could be a truly great analyst, but falls just short.

    Or - to put it another way - I can't imagine a scenario where Goodwin said "you know what, that's a very good point, I've changed my mind."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
    Random thoughts from years spent in international teams for global megacorps are that cross-border and timezone collaboration is good but there can be problems when speaking to customers owing to both language and time of day. A London colleague working with an Australian team, for instance, had no problem with the language but they are 10 hours ahead of us so there is no 9-5 overlap.
    Yes, it’s meetings which are the issue. Even zooms. Sometimes in my job I have to do zoom calls with london and LA simultaneously. Just about possible at end of play in London, quite impractical if you need to add in a Far East time as well

    London is ideally placed between the two, another reason for its success

    And eventually you need to go back and see people in the flesh
    London - LA... 8 hour time gap

    LA - Asia - 8 hour time gap

    Asia - London - 8 hour time gap

    London is only in the middle if you care about things being on the same day of the week. Otherwise, each of them is equally in the middle.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Burnham has suggested he wants to be an MP again at the next general election then if Starmer survives until then and loses, Burnham certainly would be a contender.

    However for the moment if say Starmer is fined and has to resign then I would make the second favourite, Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting, the favourite to succeed him

    Streeting is such a non entity politically though. He's butter chicken.
    Streeting comes across well, is telegenic, articulate and relatively centrist and also has much more charisma than Starmer.

    As a Tory of the above he is the one I would most fear, I also fear Burnham but he is not in Parliament.

    Streeting would also be our first Cambridge educated PM since Baldwin, as indeed would Burnham

    Some issues with Streeting (who I like): London MP. Second referendum campaigner. Ex-NUS president. Worked for Stonewall.
    Nandy: Wigan MP. Against a second referendum. Wanted Brexit done (soft version).
    So Streeting would be easier for the right wing press to attack than Nandy.
    Labour members will never vote for Nandy for that reason, she is too Brexity, hence she got just 16% in 2020 from them.

    She is also a bit of a lightweight and would probably leak Remainers to the LDs, especially in London and the South, without winning many Leavers from the Tories
    FWIW i don't think Nandy is a lightweight.
    She’s solid mid level cabinet rank
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Why Team Johnson is celebrating
    The Tories see a way to hold onto power
    Matthew Goodwin"

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/why-team-johnson-is-celebrating/

    Goodwin is usually worth reading in my opinion.

    He is, albeit he has a tendency to start at the conclusion and work back.
    I can see that tendency in his writing.
    Oh, we're all guilty to a degree, because stepping out of your comfort zone and thinking about why we might be wrong (rather than why we are right) is hard.

    What irritates me, though, is that he is clearly both highly intelligent, and has a great domain expertise. He could be a truly great analyst, but falls just short.

    Or - to put it another way - I can't imagine a scenario where Goodwin said "you know what, that's a very good point, I've changed my mind."
    For a moment there, I thought you were on about Trump and his hurricane gun.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Burnham has suggested he wants to be an MP again at the next general election then if Starmer survives until then and loses, Burnham certainly would be a contender.

    However for the moment if say Starmer is fined and has to resign then I would make the second favourite, Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting, the favourite to succeed him

    Streeting is such a non entity politically though. He's butter chicken.
    Streeting comes across well, is telegenic, articulate and relatively centrist and also has much more charisma than Starmer.

    As a Tory of the above he is the one I would most fear, I also fear Burnham but he is not in Parliament.

    Streeting would also be our first Cambridge educated PM since Baldwin, as indeed would Burnham

    Some issues with Streeting (who I like): London MP. Second referendum campaigner. Ex-NUS president. Worked for Stonewall.
    Nandy: Wigan MP. Against a second referendum. Wanted Brexit done (soft version).
    So Streeting would be easier for the right wing press to attack than Nandy.
    Labour members will never vote for Nandy for that reason, she is too Brexity, hence she got just 16% in 2020 from them.

    She is also a bit of a lightweight and would probably leak Remainers to the LDs, especially in London and the South, without winning many Leavers from the Tories
    FWIW i don't think Nandy is a lightweight.
    She’s solid mid level cabinet rank
    So outclasses the entire current cabinet...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    What has @Cookie got against women wearing lipstick? Poor Bridget!

    Evidence?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
    Random thoughts from years spent in international teams for global megacorps are that cross-border and timezone collaboration is good but there can be problems when speaking to customers owing to both language and time of day. A London colleague working with an Australian team, for instance, had no problem with the language but they are 10 hours ahead of us so there is no 9-5 overlap.
    Yes, it’s meetings which are the issue. Even zooms. Sometimes in my job I have to do zoom calls with london and LA simultaneously. Just about possible at end of play in London, quite impractical if you need to add in a Far East time as well

    London is ideally placed between the two, another reason for its success

    And eventually you need to go back and see people in the flesh
    Zoom meetings are inferior to in-person meetings IMO.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited May 2022

    What has @Cookie got against women wearing lipstick? Poor Bridget!

    Evidence?
    His own words upthread.

    Or are you doubting she wears ‘excessive’ lipstick ?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
    Random thoughts from years spent in international teams for global megacorps are that cross-border and timezone collaboration is good but there can be problems when speaking to customers owing to both language and time of day. A London colleague working with an Australian team, for instance, had no problem with the language but they are 10 hours ahead of us so there is no 9-5 overlap.
    Yes, it’s meetings which are the issue. Even zooms. Sometimes in my job I have to do zoom calls with london and LA simultaneously. Just about possible at end of play in London, quite impractical if you need to add in a Far East time as well

    London is ideally placed between the two, another reason for its success

    And eventually you need to go back and see people in the flesh
    I used to have a weekly Monday morning call. Australia, London, Pennsylvania and LA.

    Started 1am London time
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    The Russian defeat around Kharkiv has been quite dramatic these last two weeks:

    https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1524177753314111490?t=ckWkWnOBHIYrmMRtRntuPA&s=19

    It seems that there are no intact bridges to go further east yet but the supply dumps, bridges and railway line south of Belgorod are now well within range of Ukranian artillery.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Friend of mine in Dubai, here with his wife’s job, works remotely for a Canadian bank. He regularly gets 9pm or 10pm calls. He gets up in the morning, can run his errands and can get quite a bit of his work done before colleagues come online in the late afternoon. Having him in a weird time one can also help with ‘overnight’ tasks for his employer (he’s a software developer for a bank).

    I think most people will settle into some sort of a hybrid system, with time in in the office ranging from a couple of days a week to a couple of days a month, depending on the nature of business and projects.

    For many teams, and over time, the ‘office’ might be a meeting room in an hotel just off the motorway, rather than a very expensive facility in central London.

    As to where people might end up living, for a regular monthly trip to the office it could be literally anywhere, and for a couple of times a week maybe a couple of hours away is doable. For central London that means half of England, plus areas next to an airport 500 or 600 miles away.

    Companies won’t particularly want people on the payroll living primarily in different tax jurisdictions though, as it creates quite a bit of extra paperwork.
    The tax problem is important and from the silence when I've raised it before, one that even those directly concerned as employer or employee have not even considered. What will you say when a Greek or American tax demand lands on your doormat or when you turn out to be ineligible for welfare programmes including pensions and healthcare?

    International companies have systems in place but even on pb we hear of startups recruiting across the globe.

    ETA and of course these days, there are different income tax rates between England, Scotland and Wales.
    From my experience of global startups, they will usually use a contract employment agency or payroll company in each country where they hire staff, and run everything through there. For one-offs at senior level, they will either be set up as contractors, or paid gross and responsible for their own local taxes.

    As they expand in each jurisdiction, they will eventually move to setting up a local company, with an office manager and an accountant. The local company option is cheaper, but requires knowledge of local payroll and leaves you bound by local employment law.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Burnham has suggested he wants to be an MP again at the next general election then if Starmer survives until then and loses, Burnham certainly would be a contender.

    However for the moment if say Starmer is fined and has to resign then I would make the second favourite, Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting, the favourite to succeed him

    Streeting is such a non entity politically though. He's butter chicken.
    Streeting comes across well, is telegenic, articulate and relatively centrist and also has much more charisma than Starmer.

    As a Tory of the above he is the one I would most fear, I also fear Burnham but he is not in Parliament.

    Streeting would also be our first Cambridge educated PM since Baldwin, as indeed would Burnham

    Some issues with Streeting (who I like): London MP. Second referendum campaigner. Ex-NUS president. Worked for Stonewall.
    Nandy: Wigan MP. Against a second referendum. Wanted Brexit done (soft version).
    So Streeting would be easier for the right wing press to attack than Nandy.
    Labour members will never vote for Nandy for that reason, she is too Brexity, hence she got just 16% in 2020 from them.

    She is also a bit of a lightweight and would probably leak Remainers to the LDs, especially in London and the South, without winning many Leavers from the Tories
    FWIW i don't think Nandy is a lightweight.
    She’s solid mid level cabinet rank
    So outclasses the entire current cabinet...
    Certainly in the top third…
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Nigelb said:

    What has @Cookie got against women wearing lipstick? Poor Bridget!

    Evidence?
    His own words upthread.

    Or are you doubting she wears ‘excessive’ lipstick ?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YMlALAaEwfA
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Or maybe this better reflects @Cookie view?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjRa6pDZVM
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    What has @Cookie got against women wearing lipstick? Poor Bridget!

    Evidence?
    His own words upthread.

    Or are you doubting she wears ‘excessive’ lipstick ?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YMlALAaEwfA
    Sorry, bit slow this morning.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Friend of mine in Dubai, here with his wife’s job, works remotely for a Canadian bank. He regularly gets 9pm or 10pm calls. He gets up in the morning, can run his errands and can get quite a bit of his work done before colleagues come online in the late afternoon. Having him in a weird time one can also help with ‘overnight’ tasks for his employer (he’s a software developer for a bank).

    I think most people will settle into some sort of a hybrid system, with time in in the office ranging from a couple of days a week to a couple of days a month, depending on the nature of business and projects.

    For many teams, and over time, the ‘office’ might be a meeting room in an hotel just off the motorway, rather than a very expensive facility in central London.

    As to where people might end up living, for a regular monthly trip to the office it could be literally anywhere, and for a couple of times a week maybe a couple of hours away is doable. For central London that means half of England, plus areas next to an airport 500 or 600 miles away.

    Companies won’t particularly want people on the payroll living primarily in different tax jurisdictions though, as it creates quite a bit of extra paperwork.
    The tax problem is important and from the silence when I've raised it before, one that even those directly concerned as employer or employee have not even considered. What will you say when a Greek or American tax demand lands on your doormat or when you turn out to be ineligible for welfare programmes including pensions and healthcare?

    International companies have systems in place but even on pb we hear of startups recruiting across the globe.

    ETA and of course these days, there are different income tax rates between England, Scotland and Wales.
    From my experience of global startups, they will usually use a contract employment agency or payroll company in each country where they hire staff, and run everything through there. For one-offs at senior level, they will either be set up as contractors, or paid gross and responsible for their own local taxes.

    As they expand in each jurisdiction, they will eventually move to setting up a local company, with an office manager and an accountant. The local company option is cheaper, but requires knowledge of local payroll and leaves you bound by local employment law.
    Unless you’re P+O Ferries.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited May 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
    Random thoughts from years spent in international teams for global megacorps are that cross-border and timezone collaboration is good but there can be problems when speaking to customers owing to both language and time of day. A London colleague working with an Australian team, for instance, had no problem with the language but they are 10 hours ahead of us so there is no 9-5 overlap.
    Yes, it’s meetings which are the issue. Even zooms. Sometimes in my job I have to do zoom calls with london and LA simultaneously. Just about possible at end of play in London, quite impractical if you need to add in a Far East time as well

    London is ideally placed between the two, another reason for its success

    And eventually you need to go back and see people in the flesh
    Zoom meetings are inferior to in-person meetings IMO.
    It depends. My church financial comittee works well on zoom because there are a half dozen of us, we all know each other, and we all need our laptops anyway for the documents. It is a bit less handy for signing documents though.

    Larger meetings for hundreds work well too, for example some of the national meetings that I go too, and attendance at these in my speciality has more than doubled. At that scale they have to be set piece affairs, and it is impossible to know everyone anyway.

    What doesn't work is intermediate sized meetings in the 6-30 number range, These are always dominated by a few people at best, and half or more make no discernable contribution. Unfortunately this includes most of my University work.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    That really was not the basis of the criticism.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    I wonder how many Tory MPs use predominantly own brands themselves?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Foxy said:

    The Russian defeat around Kharkiv has been quite dramatic these last two weeks:

    https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1524177753314111490?t=ckWkWnOBHIYrmMRtRntuPA&s=19

    It seems that there are no intact bridges to go further east yet but the supply dumps, bridges and railway line south of Belgorod are now well within range of Ukranian artillery.

    The ability to threaten the Russian supply routes to Izium must be a big bonus to the Ukrainians.

    However I fear more important battles are occurring further south, around Severodonetsk. There's a good chance the Russians might encircle the Ukrainians down there.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited May 2022
    One for Mr @TheScreamingEagles to choke on his corn flakes:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/michael-owen-fire-football-crypto-promotion/

    Footballer Michael Owen has come under fire for promoting a new crypto investment and claiming it could not fall in value.

    The former Liverpool and Real Madrid striker said his "non-fungible tokens", or NFTs, would be "the first ever that can't lose their initial value".

    While Mr Owen said that the NFTs cannot lose value, [Crypto partner CEO] Andrew Green later tweeted: "We cannot guarantee or say that you cannot lose. There is always a chance."

    A spokesman for the ASA said that they were unable to comment specifically on Mr Owen’s tweet to avoid prejudicing any hypothetical investigation.

    They added: "We have strict rules on the marketing of crypto assets, including NFTs. Ads must make it clear that crypto assets are unregulated, and consumers’ investments are not protected.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    edited May 2022

    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    I wonder how many Tory MPs use predominantly own brands themselves?
    If they don't they're as thick as anyone else who does. Of coourse we know that woman of the people Angela Rayner loves her Apple air Buds - paid for by the taxdes of the .
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    Or does stupidity flow in the other direction? Heinz beans are not the same as supermarket own-label beans. Legitimate questions include whether the difference in price makes up for the difference in quality, and if there is even a taste difference in a finished meal.

    One thing the German Aldi and Lidl have done is sell an awful lot of lesser-known brands.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Sandpit said:

    One for Mr @TheScreamingEagles to choke on his corn flakes:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/michael-owen-fire-football-crypto-promotion/

    Footballer Michael Owen has come under fire for promoting a new crypto investment and claiming it could not fall in value.

    The former Liverpool and Real Madrid striker said his "non-fungible tokens", or NFTs, would be "the first ever that can't lose their initial value".

    While Mr Owen said that the NFTs cannot lose value, [Crypto partner CEO] Andrew Green later tweeted: "We cannot guarantee or say that you cannot lose. There is always a chance."

    A spokesman for the ASA said that they were unable to comment specifically on Mr Owen’s tweet to avoid prejudicing any hypothetical investigation.

    They added: "We have strict rules on the marketing of crypto assets, including NFTs. Ads must make it clear that crypto assets are unregulated, and consumers’ investments are not protected.

    Michael Owen is an idiot.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    One for Mr @TheScreamingEagles to choke on his corn flakes:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/michael-owen-fire-football-crypto-promotion/

    Footballer Michael Owen has come under fire for promoting a new crypto investment and claiming it could not fall in value.

    The former Liverpool and Real Madrid striker said his "non-fungible tokens", or NFTs, would be "the first ever that can't lose their initial value".

    While Mr Owen said that the NFTs cannot lose value, [Crypto partner CEO] Andrew Green later tweeted: "We cannot guarantee or say that you cannot lose. There is always a chance."

    A spokesman for the ASA said that they were unable to comment specifically on Mr Owen’s tweet to avoid prejudicing any hypothetical investigation.

    They added: "We have strict rules on the marketing of crypto assets, including NFTs. Ads must make it clear that crypto assets are unregulated, and consumers’ investments are not protected.

    Michael Owen is an idiot.
    He should stick to actual property investment, which is where most of his money has gone (apart from the huge amounts to various bookmakers over the years).

    Thankfully for most of us, it does look like the Crypto market as a whole is about to go spectacularly bust.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    That really was not the basis of the criticism.
    Maybe it should have been then - unless the left wants to die on the cross to defend Heinz against Tesco's finest. Of course we know from yesterday that the biggest tragedy of Brexit is the fact that it's marginally less easy now to spend more than 3 months at a time 'immersing' in French/Italian culture in one's villa in Provence or Tuscany - so maybe they do.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    felix said:

    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    I wonder how many Tory MPs use predominantly own brands themselves?
    If they don't they're as thick as anyone else who does. Of coourse we know that woman of the people Angela Rayner loves her Apple air Buds - paid for by the taxdes of the .
    I think it is worth trying the own brands, or cheaper brands, from time to time, sometimes they are fine and similar, other times, most of the time in my experience, they are clearly lower quality.

    I don't think Tory MPs are thick for likely preferring pricier brands, just that at their income level they are not hit by the cost of living crisis in the same way that the poorest 10-20% are.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    felix said:

    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    I wonder how many Tory MPs use predominantly own brands themselves?
    If they don't they're as thick as anyone else who does. Of coourse we know that woman of the people Angela Rayner loves her Apple air Buds - paid for by the taxdes of the .
    I think it is worth trying the own brands, or cheaper brands, from time to time, sometimes they are fine and similar, other times, most of the time in my experience, they are clearly lower quality.

    I don't think Tory MPs are thick for likely preferring pricier brands, just that at their income level they are not hit by the cost of living crisis in the same way that the poorest 10-20% are.
    Oh dear - the power of advertising.... I respectfully think you are wrong but each to their own.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    felix said:

    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    That really was not the basis of the criticism.
    Maybe it should have been then - unless the left wants to die on the cross to defend Heinz against Tesco's finest. Of course we know from yesterday that the biggest tragedy of Brexit is the fact that it's marginally less easy now to spend more than 3 months at a time 'immersing' in French/Italian culture in one's villa in Provence or Tuscany - so maybe they do.
    Tesco Finest is their premium brand, not their budget brand.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Sandpit, what's happening? The last big news I heard was China banning it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    felix said:

    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    I wonder how many Tory MPs use predominantly own brands themselves?
    If they don't they're as thick as anyone else who does. Of coourse we know that woman of the people Angela Rayner loves her Apple air Buds - paid for by the taxdes of the .
    I think it is worth trying the own brands, or cheaper brands, from time to time, sometimes they are fine and similar, other times, most of the time in my experience, they are clearly lower quality.

    I don't think Tory MPs are thick for likely preferring pricier brands, just that at their income level they are not hit by the cost of living crisis in the same way that the poorest 10-20% are.
    I mostly buy the supermarket brands, but some are nowhere near as nice.

    Morrisons "wonky fruit" is a bargain though. I particularly like the avocados which are about 8 for £2.20, smaller than the usual ones and with cosmetic blemishes but tasty and reliably unbruised.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    I expect the crypto crash later this year, as people try to pull their money out to cover other bills, find there is no liquidity and start a crypto run.

    What mainstream businesses are vulnerable to this, thinking of my own portfolio?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Nick Palmer was arguing that those who work from home should be in the same time zone as their employer.

    Which reminded me of this story from Mike Mansfield, who ended his long and distinguished career as American ambassador to Japan: Mansfield said he liked being ambassador to Japan, because the time zone difference prevented people in DC from calling him up and bothering him, while he was trying to work. (I'm not saying that would apply to every job, but it would to some.)

    Incidentally, I can't think of anyone currently in the Senate, Democrat or Republican, who would be a match for him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mansfield

    Good story.
    On a simlar note, I am increasingly hearing of people who work in the 'wrong' timezone and are quite happy about it because it suits their body clock. The best I've felt at work was working 4pm until midnight, and I do tend to be more creative and productive in the evening - maybe I should find a company in California to work for.
    Commenting (as I am) from the Turkish coast at 6.30am Istanbul time (in between first and second sleeps) I agree with this

    My ideal workplace is Thailand. Because I rise about 10am when it’s still 3am in the UK, so the British internet is quiet, there is nothing to distract. No emails or tweets or newsbites pinging in. I work uninterrupted for 3-4 hours (which is all you need if you do that properly with no breaks)

    By late lunchtime in Bangkok - 2pm - it’s 7am in London, and Europe is waking up. Through the afternoon I can attend to emails and admin and lesser business. The stuff that doesn’t require the sharpest brain. Then a siesta and the gym

    In the evening I have a curry, a beer, a laugh and a catch up with a friend - maybe I sponsor a go-go dancer; and I don’t care about anything else anyway

    Ah, it was bliss. I deeply miss it
    Random thoughts from years spent in international teams for global megacorps are that cross-border and timezone collaboration is good but there can be problems when speaking to customers owing to both language and time of day. A London colleague working with an Australian team, for instance, had no problem with the language but they are 10 hours ahead of us so there is no 9-5 overlap.
    Yes, it’s meetings which are the issue. Even zooms. Sometimes in my job I have to do zoom calls with london and LA simultaneously. Just about possible at end of play in London, quite impractical if you need to add in a Far East time as well

    London is ideally placed between the two, another reason for its success

    And eventually you need to go back and see people in the flesh
    Zoom meetings are inferior to in-person meetings IMO.
    Agreed. Zoom is especially inferior for creating new ideas with new people
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Sandpit, what's happening? The last big news I heard was China banning it.

    Bitcoin is hoverering just over $30,000, having been $67k in November. $30k and $25k are thought to be key ‘support levels’, which generate automated selling when they fall below.

    A couple of “Stable Coins”, which are supposed to be pegged to the USD, have crashed in recent days to 60 or 70 cents, leading to everyone selling. People were transferring savings to them for interest rates of 10-15%, which of course is as unsustainable as any other pyramid scheme.

    The whole industry is good for nothing except speculation and money laundering.

    Somewhat ironically, things like digital football cards are a good use case for blockchain technology, but the way they have been priced and marketed is in many cases fraudulent. They would be fun at a quid or two, but not at several hundred or even several thousand.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Sandpit, what's happening? The last big news I heard was China banning it.

    As Sandpit alluded, it's another Tulip mania or South Sea Bubble. Cryptocurrencies have increased massively in value, but with virtually nothing to support that value. AIUI (and I might be wrong) that means the only thing keeping the price so high is 'belief' that it is worth that much.

    When that belief goes, the price will crash. And there is no underlying value to stop that crash.

    As with Tulip mania or the South Sea Bubble, it's made worse by average Joe's investing heavily in it, in the belief they'll make oodles of money.

    (There're also the environmental impacts of many cryptocurrencies that should not be underestimated.)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Mr. Sandpit, ah, cheers. I do remember thinking that untethered Tether was just destined to fall but didn't realise it had already.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Foxy said:

    I expect the crypto crash later this year, as people try to pull their money out to cover other bills, find there is no liquidity and start a crypto run.

    What mainstream businesses are vulnerable to this, thinking of my own portfolio?

    Companies that sell advertising. Crypto companies have been spending billions of dollars in the advertising market over the past couple of years.

    Google and Facebook stand out, and are already well down from their own peaks. Other media and sports companies too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Oh good grief.

    Shanghai moves to impose tightest restrictions yet
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-61404082

    It's not at all good. And what are the Lancet playing at publishing articles from the Chinese government?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Mr. Sandpit, ah, cheers. I do remember thinking that untethered Tether was just destined to fall but didn't realise it had already.

    Tether is still tethered, but God only knows why. It’s the Tether-clones that have fallen in recent days.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593
    felix said:

    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    That really was not the basis of the criticism.
    Maybe it should have been then - unless the left wants to die on the cross to defend Heinz against Tesco's finest. Of course we know from yesterday that the biggest tragedy of Brexit is the fact that it's marginally less easy now to spend more than 3 months at a time 'immersing' in French/Italian culture in one's villa in Provence or Tuscany - so maybe they do.
    You made it to Spain to live a very happy retirement. Your sneering at those many Brits who will now be denied that opportunity is not a great look.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for Mr @TheScreamingEagles to choke on his corn flakes:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/michael-owen-fire-football-crypto-promotion/

    Footballer Michael Owen has come under fire for promoting a new crypto investment and claiming it could not fall in value.

    The former Liverpool and Real Madrid striker said his "non-fungible tokens", or NFTs, would be "the first ever that can't lose their initial value".

    While Mr Owen said that the NFTs cannot lose value, [Crypto partner CEO] Andrew Green later tweeted: "We cannot guarantee or say that you cannot lose. There is always a chance."

    A spokesman for the ASA said that they were unable to comment specifically on Mr Owen’s tweet to avoid prejudicing any hypothetical investigation.

    They added: "We have strict rules on the marketing of crypto assets, including NFTs. Ads must make it clear that crypto assets are unregulated, and consumers’ investments are not protected.

    Michael Owen is an idiot.
    He should stick to actual property investment, which is where most of his money has gone (apart from the huge amounts to various bookmakers over the years).

    Thankfully for most of us, it does look like the Crypto market as a whole is about to go spectacularly bust.
    I have been expecting that for some time. I hear casual conversations from people who really have no understanding of money about which crypto to speculate in next. It's a bit like when the shoeshine boy gives stock tips in the run up to the Wall St Crash.

    At least with tulip bulbs you get to keep the pretty flowers.
    Crypto is so dodgy. The problem is that when it goes south it will take down plenty with it. I can’t help feeling that one almighty, wideranging “correction” to current portfolio investment strategies is on its way. But with inflation as it is cash is also a less than optimal play, to put it mildly!

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited May 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    I expect the crypto crash later this year, as people try to pull their money out to cover other bills, find there is no liquidity and start a crypto run.

    What mainstream businesses are vulnerable to this, thinking of my own portfolio?

    Companies that sell advertising. Crypto companies have been spending billions of dollars in the advertising market over the past couple of years.

    Google and Facebook stand out, and are already well down from their own peaks. Other media and sports companies too.
    Yes, I can see advertising getting squeezed. Crypto adverts are everywhere, and a sign of peak bubble. Advertising is easy to squeeze too if a company is short of cash, just re-run a previous campaign.

    I have a bit in US tech stocks via a Unit Trust but mostly my portfolio is in businesses that I understand how they make their money.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    The level of stupidity involved in thinking that stupidity is likely in issue in a dispute over verifiable facts, is disturbing.

    You are just wrong: it varies by product. Tesco jaffa cakes are jaffa cakes (I know a bloke who drives the lorry from the jaffa cake factory to tescos); Tesco Dorito knock offs are seemingly offcuts from a North Korean cardboard factory (but own brand salsa is acceptable, so buy Doritos and dip them in that).

    Bonus tip:Tesco's Finest wines are almost all excellent vfm.
This discussion has been closed.