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Potty punters continue to make Burnham favourite to succeed Starmer – politicalbetting.com

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  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    You are describing the situation from November last year. Since then the EU has published their trusted trader proposal, and the Northern Ireland Select Committee has reported significant progress.

    Article 16 is the weapon to be used if and when the EU drags their feet again. It is not to be used when they are - thanks to the threat - actually moving.
    Yes, but the DUP arent objecting to how the NIP is implemented in terms of electronic processing, they are objecting to its very existence.
    Yep, and it’s the Protocol’s very existence the government is now threatening - no doubt in anticipation of needing DUP help after the next election.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    dixiedean said:

    On another note entirely, this is a brilliant thread on how old borders reflect modern political trends. One is missing, IMO: the division of England when the Danelaw was created in the late 9th century.
    https://twitter.com/valen10francois/status/1524040709862576131?s=21&t=IOg4K6mcrXuXQP0OoLrvIA

    Really interesting, thanks.
    Personally have been wondering about swings to the Tories in the Kingdom of Mercia.
    A shame Eadric is no longer with us, we could ask him. Wasn't he once the King of Mercia?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Yes they are, but that isn't necessarily why people buy them.

    Tulip bulbs produce flowers, anyway.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Burnham has suggested he wants to be an MP again at the next general election then if Starmer survives until then and loses, Burnham certainly would be a contender.

    However for the moment if say Starmer is fined and has to resign then I would make the second favourite, Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting, the favourite to succeed him

    Streeting is such a non entity politically though. He's butter chicken.
    Streeting comes across well, is telegenic, articulate and relatively centrist and also has much more charisma than Starmer.

    As a Tory of the above he is the one I would most fear, I also fear Burnham but he is not in Parliament.

    Streeting would also be our first Cambridge educated PM since Baldwin, as indeed would Burnham

    FFS can't we look a little wider afield than oxbridge tossers?
    Nah.
    They have "unattractive" accents. The Oxbridge ones are "too posh".
    Vote Tory. No one else is right and proper.
    As OGH frequently reminds us the last non Oxbridge leader to win a general election against an Oxbridge educated leader was Churchill in 1951 v Attlee but then Churchill went to the superior public school, Harrow to Attlee's Haileybury, even if Churchill unlike Attlee did not go to Oxford.

    Plus of course Attlee did beat Churchill in 1945 and 1950
    I remember when looking for work after graduating in the 1980s reading one of the really small ads in the Thursday Telegraph jobs pages. It read "... only first class honours graduates OR those educated at a good Public School need apply" So two years to get good A levels, then three or four years to get a good 2:1 wasn't as good as a CSE in woodwork from Clifton College.

    Did you write the ad?
    And I am sure they would have taken a public school candidate over a first class degree graduate every time.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Scott_xP said:

    There was a case of a company which was exposed as marketing four different brands of the same beer at different prices - lots of people had sworn brand A was great, brand B was rats' piss.

    In Pennsylvania, Tennants Lager is sold as a premium import brand...
    Tennents is better than Fosters. And Carlsberg. And waaaaay better than Carling. So I can understand that.
    Have you double blind tested then? Most mass market lagers are in fact very similar, if not identical.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    Sandpit said:

    On Crypto - and NFTs for that matter - I simply don't understand the supposed value held. Yes people apparently want to pay $30k for a bitcoin, but isn't that its only value - other loons?

    At one time, I thought that Bitcoin would eventually trend towards the cost of electricity required to mine one. Not sure now though, I think it could collapse completely.

    All the other coins and NFTs have very little tangible value beyond speculation and money laundering. They’re 21st century tulip bulbs.

    (Did you manage to move your safe?).
    Not yet - the guy is going to come and look this weekend and formulate a plan. It will be hoist onto a heavy-duty trolley job - I have step-free access from the road so the tricky bit is getting it off the plinth its on.
    Is there no way you can lift it and the plinth. Assume too heavy to wiggle it onto the trolley. Likely to slide easier once you get a bit of it on the metal trolley. Once you moved it a bit you may b eable to get a crowbar under the back and get enough angle to help slide it onto trolley.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Coffee Notes:

    I asked for thoughts on coffee machines for a small cafe the other week.

    We ended up going for a consumer bean-to-cup on the basis that it does make a nice coffee, but is also inexpensive enough that it will do the job whilst trade is low and starts to build, and we can either take it home and buy a larger machine if required, or just get another one to go next to it.

    We went for one of these at around £300.

    https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb//etam29-510-sb-autentica-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine/p/ETAM29.510.SB

    Simple, and makes a very nice cup off coffee, but is quite customisable. A slight annoyance is that it works in "low medium high" rather than grams of coffee per shot.

    But DeLonghi need some serious attention to their incomprehensible model numbers.

    I missed your original post - I would have suggested the Gaggia Velasca (£499 Caffe Italia). We have one and it is excellent.
    Looking at the Velasca, it is a little more programmable via the front panel (eg the DeLonghi has a knob for qty of coffee beans), and a larger coffee hopper. Does it have a separate water filter cartridge?

    I think either would probably do it. Thanks for the comment.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,923
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    You are describing the situation from November last year. Since then the EU has published their trusted trader proposal, and the Northern Ireland Select Committee has reported significant progress.

    Article 16 is the weapon to be used if and when the EU drags their feet again. It is not to be used when they are - thanks to the threat - actually moving.
    The story from last week, was that they are very much dragging their feet.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/05/05/brussels-refusing-access-data-could-solve-northern-ireland-protocol/
    I'm not saying it's perfect. But it's equally true to say there has been enormous progress since we threatened Article 16.

    I'm about to go to bed, but I've posted links in the last month or so to the NI Select Committee minutes, and to the EU's specific proposals.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,166
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Burnham has suggested he wants to be an MP again at the next general election then if Starmer survives until then and loses, Burnham certainly would be a contender.

    However for the moment if say Starmer is fined and has to resign then I would make the second favourite, Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting, the favourite to succeed him

    Streeting is such a non entity politically though. He's butter chicken.
    Streeting comes across well, is telegenic, articulate and relatively centrist and also has much more charisma than Starmer.

    As a Tory of the above he is the one I would most fear, I also fear Burnham but he is not in Parliament.

    Streeting would also be our first Cambridge educated PM since Baldwin, as indeed would Burnham

    Can't we have someone from Flint College or Grimsby Polytechnic for a change?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Bitcoin is a currency, plain and simple. It's something you can, in theory, exchange for goods and services (though not many people do, a bit like gold).

    Its value derives from its hardness, a bit like gold. You can't just print more of it, therefore the supply is controlled and predictable.

    A bet on bitcoin is effectively a bet against fiat currencies, against inflation, against central banks trying to maintain control.

    Placing bitcoin in the same category as a tesla share is fundamentally mis-labelling it. What gives the dollar value? People believe it has value. What gives bitcoin value? People believe it has value.

    The value of a $10 note is about .02 in paper and ink, backed by people's belief in it. The value of a bitcoin is the power used to generate it, backed by people's belief in it.

    As Morpheus says, "you think that's air you're breathing?"

    The value of fiat currency is also backed up by the fact you can use it to pay your taxes. Buying into crypto means believing that governments will allow an alternative to their own currency to prosper. Given that this robs government's of seigniorage revenue while facilitating tax evasion and organised crime I don't think this is a plausible proposition. Personally I have no crypto in my portfolio.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    Scott_xP said:

    There was a case of a company which was exposed as marketing four different brands of the same beer at different prices - lots of people had sworn brand A was great, brand B was rats' piss.

    In Pennsylvania, Tennants Lager is sold as a premium import brand...
    Tennents is better than Fosters. And Carlsberg. And waaaaay better than Carling. So I can understand that.
    Anything is better than Carling
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Coffee Notes:

    I asked for thoughts on coffee machines for a small cafe the other week.

    We ended up going for a consumer bean-to-cup on the basis that it does make a nice coffee, but is also inexpensive enough that it will do the job whilst trade is low and starts to build, and we can either take it home and buy a larger machine if required, or just get another one to go next to it.

    We went for one of these at around £300.

    https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb//etam29-510-sb-autentica-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine/p/ETAM29.510.SB

    Simple, and makes a very nice cup off coffee, but is quite customisable. A slight annoyance is that it works in "low medium high" rather than grams of coffee per shot.

    But DeLonghi need some serious attention to their incomprehensible model numbers.

    I missed your original post - I would have suggested the Gaggia Velasca (£499 Caffe Italia). We have one and it is excellent.
    I have a jar of Kenco Smooth. A £5 jar lasts for a couple of months.

    Job done.
    That's like saying to someone who buys a PS5 that you have a crossword book and job done.
    Not really. It's still coffee. It does the same job.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between people who overpay for 'luxury' coffee and those who overpay by worshipping at the altar of Apple?

    (Runs for cover...)
    Its not the same coffee at all.

    You need decent pressure to make coffee properly and get a decent crema on your espresso. That doesn't happen with any instant coffee I've ever seen.

    Its like saying there's no difference between an old-fashioned landline and an iPhone. The branding doesn't matter, they're completely different products.
    Indeed. I’m now filing Josias among the many PBers who really needs to learn more about food and drink. There really is a shocking proportion of people on here who have the gastronomic enthusiasm of a tadpole.
  • Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    We've just indefinitely delayed the imposition of the inbound checks mandated by the oven-ready deal. Which means for an indefinite period the EU are responsible for safety standards of goods coming into the UK.

    In theory we can set our own standards. But as we're unable to enforce them...
    Its gone over your head it seems that the ability to drop EU-mandated checks or rules is precisely a benefit won by not being aligned to the EU.

    We don't need to enforce them, we can recognise the EU as a safe region and recognise their standards are equivalent to our own.

    What purpose do those "checks" serve other than protectionist self-harm.

    We should abolish such checks with any other nations, blocs or regions that have equivalent standards too. Protectionism is self-harming.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    🚨🚨🇪🇺🇬🇧🐖🐄🐖🐄🇬🇧🇪🇺🚨🚨NEW: Vets and farmers warn @Jacob_Rees_Mogg decision to delay #Brexit border checks on EU food imports is "accident waiting to happen"...my @ft latest, revealing details of biosecurity breaches that already occurred/1
    https://www.ft.com/content/35f54034-6551-49d9-bf36-ed463477cbca

    What do vets and farmers know about biosecurity?

    They should read he PB brain trust instead...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Sandpit said:

    On Crypto - and NFTs for that matter - I simply don't understand the supposed value held. Yes people apparently want to pay $30k for a bitcoin, but isn't that its only value - other loons?

    At one time, I thought that Bitcoin would eventually trend towards the cost of electricity required to mine one. Not sure now though, I think it could collapse completely.

    All the other coins and NFTs have very little tangible value beyond speculation and money laundering. They’re 21st century tulip bulbs.

    (Did you manage to move your safe?).
    Not yet - the guy is going to come and look this weekend and formulate a plan. It will be hoist onto a heavy-duty trolley job - I have step-free access from the road so the tricky bit is getting it off the plinth its on.
    More to the point have you opened it? It might be crammed full of bitcoin.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    I see the zerocovidians have doubled down in Shanghai. Don’t they think the Chinese have noticed that everyone else is pretty much getting on with their lives?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    edited May 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    The point of the backstop was not to get into it in the first place.

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Coffee Notes:

    I asked for thoughts on coffee machines for a small cafe the other week.

    We ended up going for a consumer bean-to-cup on the basis that it does make a nice coffee, but is also inexpensive enough that it will do the job whilst trade is low and starts to build, and we can either take it home and buy a larger machine if required, or just get another one to go next to it.

    We went for one of these at around £300.

    https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb//etam29-510-sb-autentica-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine/p/ETAM29.510.SB

    Simple, and makes a very nice cup off coffee, but is quite customisable. A slight annoyance is that it works in "low medium high" rather than grams of coffee per shot.

    But DeLonghi need some serious attention to their incomprehensible model numbers.

    I missed your original post - I would have suggested the Gaggia Velasca (£499 Caffe Italia). We have one and it is excellent.
    I have a jar of Kenco Smooth. A £5 jar lasts for a couple of months.

    Job done.
    That's like saying to someone who buys a PS5 that you have a crossword book and job done.
    Not really. It's still coffee. It does the same job.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between people who overpay for 'luxury' coffee and those who overpay by worshipping at the altar of Apple?

    (Runs for cover...)
    Its not the same coffee at all.

    You need decent pressure to make coffee properly and get a decent crema on your espresso. That doesn't happen with any instant coffee I've ever seen.

    Its like saying there's no difference between an old-fashioned landline and an iPhone. The branding doesn't matter, they're completely different products.
    Espresso? What's that? ;)

    Instant coffee is coffee. The coffee you drink is coffee. I drink it to get a little caffeine hit and to quench my thirst. It does the job.

    Why do you drink your very expensive coffee? The same reasons?

    It's like someone drinking a £10 bottle of wine from Mozzies and someone else drinking a £100 bottle. Probably worse, in terms of cost...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited May 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨🚨🇪🇺🇬🇧🐖🐄🐖🐄🇬🇧🇪🇺🚨🚨NEW: Vets and farmers warn @Jacob_Rees_Mogg decision to delay #Brexit border checks on EU food imports is "accident waiting to happen"...my @ft latest, revealing details of biosecurity breaches that already occurred/1
    https://www.ft.com/content/35f54034-6551-49d9-bf36-ed463477cbca

    What do vets and farmers know about biosecurity?

    They should read he PB brain trust instead...

    When we were in the EU there were no checks on food imports, so why is not having them now a problem? Has the EU dropped food standards?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    Scott_xP said:

    There was a case of a company which was exposed as marketing four different brands of the same beer at different prices - lots of people had sworn brand A was great, brand B was rats' piss.

    In Pennsylvania, Tennants Lager is sold as a premium import brand...
    Tennents is better than Fosters. And Carlsberg. And waaaaay better than Carling. So I can understand that.
    Have you double blind tested then? Most mass market lagers are in fact very similar, if not identical.
    He is very right, having done multiple tests
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270
    edited May 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Why is that baffling?

    The Good Friday Agreement was about power sharing across communities and not about winner-takes-all majoritarianism.

    At the Assembly election as far as I can see zero unionist MLAs were elected who support the NI Protocol.

    So by the standards of the Good Friday Agreement (cross-community consensus is needed) the NI Protocol has failed.
    And yet the government agreed to majoritarianism in the Protocol, which states that if a majority of NI voters back it it should remain in force.

    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Though I did note Theresa May telling Jeffrey Donaldson in the Commons yesterday that had he voted for her deal he would largely have avoided an Irish Sea border

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1524065734132965378?s=20&t=6rA2Rr0ExJJSY8XoRCtIXg
  • Scott_xP said:

    🚨🚨🇪🇺🇬🇧🐖🐄🐖🐄🇬🇧🇪🇺🚨🚨NEW: Vets and farmers warn @Jacob_Rees_Mogg decision to delay #Brexit border checks on EU food imports is "accident waiting to happen"...my @ft latest, revealing details of biosecurity breaches that already occurred/1
    https://www.ft.com/content/35f54034-6551-49d9-bf36-ed463477cbca

    What do vets and farmers know about biosecurity?

    They should read he PB brain trust instead...

    Producer Interest seeking Protectionism - colour me shocked!

    So EU food is so very dangerous it should be checked, is that your claim? What checks were we doing pre-Brexit? 🤔
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    We've just indefinitely delayed the imposition of the inbound checks mandated by the oven-ready deal. Which means for an indefinite period the EU are responsible for safety standards of goods coming into the UK.

    In theory we can set our own standards. But as we're unable to enforce them...
    Its gone over your head it seems that the ability to drop EU-mandated checks or rules is precisely a benefit won by not being aligned to the EU.

    We don't need to enforce them, we can recognise the EU as a safe region and recognise their standards are equivalent to our own.

    What purpose do those "checks" serve other than protectionist self-harm.

    We should abolish such checks with any other nations, blocs or regions that have equivalent standards too. Protectionism is self-harming.
    I wouldn’t say it quite the same way, but you’re right that the difference is between equivalence and alignment of standards.

    The UK side wants equivalence as the basis for trade, and the EU side wants alignment.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Burnham has suggested he wants to be an MP again at the next general election then if Starmer survives until then and loses, Burnham certainly would be a contender.

    However for the moment if say Starmer is fined and has to resign then I would make the second favourite, Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting, the favourite to succeed him

    Streeting is such a non entity politically though. He's butter chicken.
    Streeting comes across well, is telegenic, articulate and relatively centrist and also has much more charisma than Starmer.

    As a Tory of the above he is the one I would most fear, I also fear Burnham but he is not in Parliament.

    Streeting would also be our first Cambridge educated PM since Baldwin, as indeed would Burnham

    Can't we have someone from Flint College or Grimsby Polytechnic for a change?
    Gordon Brown went to Edinburgh, Neville Chamberlain went to Birmingham, Starmer did his undergraduate degree at Leeds with a postgraduate degree at Oxford, John Major, Jim Callaghan and Churchill did not go to university at all
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Bitcoin is a currency, plain and simple. It's something you can, in theory, exchange for goods and services (though not many people do, a bit like gold).

    Its value derives from its hardness, a bit like gold. You can't just print more of it, therefore the supply is controlled and predictable.

    A bet on bitcoin is effectively a bet against fiat currencies, against inflation, against central banks trying to maintain control.

    Placing bitcoin in the same category as a tesla share is fundamentally mis-labelling it. What gives the dollar value? People believe it has value. What gives bitcoin value? People believe it has value.

    The value of a $10 note is about .02 in paper and ink, backed by people's belief in it. The value of a bitcoin is the power used to generate it, backed by people's belief in it.

    As Morpheus says, "you think that's air you're breathing?"

    Gold has been a currency because it cannot be replicated, does not tarnish and yet the overall volume of it can be mined to modestly increase the money supply each year. There’s a few other elements you might substitute but none as good as gold.

    Conversely there are an unlimited amount of different cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is not even the most fit for purpose at the simple job of performing transactions. It just has the strongest brand.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    edited May 2022
    dixiedean said:

    3 common brands which I find are way superior to any cheaper competitor.
    Fairy liquid, HP sauce and Hellmann's mayonnaise.
    Apart from those, don't really insist on any. Of course Heinz make the best beans. But they aren't that much better.

    Crosse & Blackwell baked beans have their own cult following. Of course, they are not own-brand.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    dixiedean said:

    3 common brands which I find are way superior to any cheaper competitor.
    Fairy liquid, HP sauce and Hellmann's mayonnaise.
    Apart from those, don't really insist on any. Of course Heinz make the best beans. But they aren't that much better.

    Crosse & Blackwell baked beans have their own cult following. Of course, they are not own-brand.
    Hear hear.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    There was a case of a company which was exposed as marketing four different brands of the same beer at different prices - lots of people had sworn brand A was great, brand B was rats' piss.

    In Pennsylvania, Tennants Lager is sold as a premium import brand...
    Tennents is better than Fosters. And Carlsberg. And waaaaay better than Carling. So I can understand that.
    Anything is better than Carling
    I went to a corporate dinner at St George's Football Hilton. Sponsored by Carling. All you could drink for free. Customers and contacts who were also there were very happy when I took them to the bar to expense some drinkable beers.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,465
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    CD13 said:

    Many years ago, when I was a lad, I had a job loading 1cwt bags of fertilizer onto pallets. This was when the UK granulated nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium compounds to make fertilizer. They were bagged in situ, and the farmer came with their wagons to collect it.

    I remember one old farmer being emphatic. "I don't want any of that Fisons rubbish boy, I want Hadfields." It was the work of seconds to exchange the Fisons bags for the Hadfields ones. He paid close to £2 a ton extra for the privilege. This was when £2 was a lot of money.

    Some people never learn.

    Yes N P and K can't really be anything else. Like buying nurofen when it is literally illegal for it to vary from unbranded ibuprofen. Then again, supermarket petrol and diesel are, as I understand it, crap - they skimp on the additives
    I know the average age of PB-ers is quite high, but if @CD13 can remember when “£2 was a lot of money” then I estimate he must be about 320 years old. Which is impressive

    And on that note, Happy Birthday @MikeSmithson
    I remember as an 18 year old when I used to borrow my dad's car I would occasionally top it up with petrol with a £1 worth.
    My weekend/summer job when I was a teenager in the 1970s was as a petrol pump attendant.
    I remember the moans when the price went up from 72p to 74p - a gallon!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,166
    edited May 2022

    I see the zerocovidians have doubled down in Shanghai. Don’t they think the Chinese have noticed that everyone else is pretty much getting on with their lives?

    I think it might have something to do with the leader of China wanting to assert his authority over the population, no matter what the cost. He's hosting a conference later this year where he intends to effectively appoint himself as leader for life.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    The point of the backstop was not to get into it in the first place.

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214
    So the DUP are more important than anyone else? Damn stupid promise. They know they can throw their non-gay dinosaur stuffed toys out the pram and fill their nappies whenever they want and nanny will come running.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575


    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    CD13 said:

    Many years ago, when I was a lad, I had a job loading 1cwt bags of fertilizer onto pallets. This was when the UK granulated nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium compounds to make fertilizer. They were bagged in situ, and the farmer came with their wagons to collect it.

    I remember one old farmer being emphatic. "I don't want any of that Fisons rubbish boy, I want Hadfields." It was the work of seconds to exchange the Fisons bags for the Hadfields ones. He paid close to £2 a ton extra for the privilege. This was when £2 was a lot of money.

    Some people never learn.

    Yes N P and K can't really be anything else. Like buying nurofen when it is literally illegal for it to vary from unbranded ibuprofen. Then again, supermarket petrol and diesel are, as I understand it, crap - they skimp on the additives
    I know the average age of PB-ers is quite high, but if @CD13 can remember when “£2 was a lot of money” then I estimate he must be about 320 years old. Which is impressive

    And on that note, Happy Birthday @MikeSmithson
    I remember as an 18 year old when I used to borrow my dad's car I would occasionally top it up with petrol with a £1 worth.
    My weekend/summer job when I was a teenager in the 1970s was as a petrol pump attendant.
    I remember the moans when the price went up from 72p to 74p - a gallon!
    Petrol pump attendant. That was probably seen as a safe job once. People will always drive cars.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Coffee Notes:

    I asked for thoughts on coffee machines for a small cafe the other week.

    We ended up going for a consumer bean-to-cup on the basis that it does make a nice coffee, but is also inexpensive enough that it will do the job whilst trade is low and starts to build, and we can either take it home and buy a larger machine if required, or just get another one to go next to it.

    We went for one of these at around £300.

    https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb//etam29-510-sb-autentica-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine/p/ETAM29.510.SB

    Simple, and makes a very nice cup off coffee, but is quite customisable. A slight annoyance is that it works in "low medium high" rather than grams of coffee per shot.

    But DeLonghi need some serious attention to their incomprehensible model numbers.

    I missed your original post - I would have suggested the Gaggia Velasca (£499 Caffe Italia). We have one and it is excellent.
    I have a jar of Kenco Smooth. A £5 jar lasts for a couple of months.

    Job done.
    That's like saying to someone who buys a PS5 that you have a crossword book and job done.
    Not really. It's still coffee. It does the same job.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between people who overpay for 'luxury' coffee and those who overpay by worshipping at the altar of Apple?

    (Runs for cover...)
    Its not the same coffee at all.

    You need decent pressure to make coffee properly and get a decent crema on your espresso. That doesn't happen with any instant coffee I've ever seen.

    Its like saying there's no difference between an old-fashioned landline and an iPhone. The branding doesn't matter, they're completely different products.
    Indeed. I’m now filing Josias among the many PBers who really needs to learn more about food and drink. There really is a shocking proportion of people on here who have the gastronomic enthusiasm of a tadpole.
    No. Tadpoles have tongues. More like a sea anemone, some of us.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    There was a case of a company which was exposed as marketing four different brands of the same beer at different prices - lots of people had sworn brand A was great, brand B was rats' piss.

    In Pennsylvania, Tennants Lager is sold as a premium import brand...
    Tennents is better than Fosters. And Carlsberg. And waaaaay better than Carling. So I can understand that.
    Have you double blind tested then? Most mass market lagers are in fact very similar, if not identical.
    He is very right, having done multiple tests
    Same here. All pretty much the same. Tried with a friend with bottles and he choose his favourite against four others. When taken blind from a glass be placed his favourite fourth out of five. To his disgust he had a 0.5% alc lager and number one. People are influence by the brand and perhaps style of bottle they are holding in their hand.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    Poor Wordle for me today.

    Not difficult, but too many mistakes.

    Wordle 326 6/6

    ⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩
    ⬜🟩⬜🟨⬜
    ⬜⬜🟩⬜⬜
    🟨🟩⬜🟨🟩
    🟨🟩🟩⬜🟩
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    China:

    WHO Director-General, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has said that he doesn't think a zero-covid policy is sustainable. This is what happens when you play a video of his comments on WeChat. Widely shared this morning but now censored...

    https://twitter.com/EP_Lawrence/status/1524252823650664449
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    We've just indefinitely delayed the imposition of the inbound checks mandated by the oven-ready deal. Which means for an indefinite period the EU are responsible for safety standards of goods coming into the UK.

    In theory we can set our own standards. But as we're unable to enforce them...
    Its gone over your head it seems that the ability to drop EU-mandated checks or rules is precisely a benefit won by not being aligned to the EU.

    We don't need to enforce them, we can recognise the EU as a safe region and recognise their standards are equivalent to our own.

    What purpose do those "checks" serve other than protectionist self-harm.

    We should abolish such checks with any other nations, blocs or regions that have equivalent standards too. Protectionism is self-harming.
    Good! So we recognise their standards as equivalent to our own. We should do as their standards are our standards. So we have maintained our alignment with EU standards - and have now made it clear we aren't changing those standards because we're functionally incapable of doing so.

    You ask "what function do those checks serve" - a genuinely great question. Can I remind you though that said checks are a key component of the 3rd country status this government demanded as part of its oven-ready deal?

    What we need now is the EU to also drop its checks. Our standards are their standards are our standards. As we've now abandoned the ability to set different standards that is not going to change. So even if it is informally we can agree with the EU that we can mutually dismantle the need for checks. And having done that we can take the next step and dismantle the reams of Mogg-imposed red tape needed to show that our zero VAT zero tariff zero quota products are as stated.

    A bright future is ahead, and its all thanks to Rees-Mogg saying that his version of brexit was an act of self-harm. Good for him.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    The point of the backstop was not to get into it in the first place.

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214
    So the DUP are more important than anyone else? Damn stupid promise. They know they can throw their non-gay dinosaur stuffed toys out the pram and fill their nappies whenever they want and nanny will come running.
    Eh? Leaving aside the rant, Boris said there would be no Irish Sea border and then imposed an Irish Sea border. Is it unreasonable to complain that the Prime Minister either lied or went back on his word?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214

    BoZo lied to him.

    News at 11...
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,866
    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Bitcoin is a currency, plain and simple. It's something you can, in theory, exchange for goods and services (though not many people do, a bit like gold).

    Its value derives from its hardness, a bit like gold. You can't just print more of it, therefore the supply is controlled and predictable.

    A bet on bitcoin is effectively a bet against fiat currencies, against inflation, against central banks trying to maintain control.

    Placing bitcoin in the same category as a tesla share is fundamentally mis-labelling it. What gives the dollar value? People believe it has value. What gives bitcoin value? People believe it has value.

    The value of a $10 note is about .02 in paper and ink, backed by people's belief in it. The value of a bitcoin is the power used to generate it, backed by people's belief in it.

    As Morpheus says, "you think that's air you're breathing?"

    Gold has been a currency because it cannot be replicated, does not tarnish and yet the overall volume of it can be mined to modestly increase the money supply each year. There’s a few other elements you might substitute but none as good as gold.

    Conversely there are an unlimited amount of different cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is not even the most fit for purpose at the simple job of performing transactions. It just has the strongest brand.

    Bitcoin is considered a currency by its advocates for precisely the reasons you list above (it can't be replicated mathematically, tarnished, and the supply is algorithmically controlled, with a hard cap at 21m).

    Saying "there are an infinite amount of cryptocurrencies", well, yeah, but gold competes against diamonds, silver, rolex watches, etc, for whatever you want to describe as "currency" too. Gold isn't the "only" thing out there with the properties you describe. It's just the strongest brand.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨🚨🇪🇺🇬🇧🐖🐄🐖🐄🇬🇧🇪🇺🚨🚨NEW: Vets and farmers warn @Jacob_Rees_Mogg decision to delay #Brexit border checks on EU food imports is "accident waiting to happen"...my @ft latest, revealing details of biosecurity breaches that already occurred/1
    https://www.ft.com/content/35f54034-6551-49d9-bf36-ed463477cbca

    What do vets and farmers know about biosecurity?

    They should read he PB brain trust instead...

    When we were in the EU there were no checks on food imports, so why is not having them now a problem? Has the EU dropped food standards?
    Its only a problem because they are still checking our products at our request. We still have the TCA - Boris's oven-ready deal - in place but have abandoned our side of it. So our goods cost more to export to the EU than the goods being imported from the EU.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    The point of the backstop was not to get into it in the first place.

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214
    So the DUP are more important than anyone else? Damn stupid promise. They know they can throw their non-gay dinosaur stuffed toys out the pram and fill their nappies whenever they want and nanny will come running.
    Current polls suggest a hung parliament, in which case to have any chance of surviving as PM Johnson would need DUP support, hence the new urgency in UK government moves to change the NI Protocol
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    The point of the backstop was not to get into it in the first place.

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214
    So the DUP are more important than anyone else? Damn stupid promise. They know they can throw their non-gay dinosaur stuffed toys out the pram and fill their nappies whenever they want and nanny will come running.
    Eh? Leaving aside the rant, Boris said there would be no Irish Sea border and then imposed an Irish Sea border. Is it unreasonable to complain that the Prime Minister either lied or went back on his word?
    Irrespective of his mala fides more generally, it was damn stupid of them to believe Mr Johnson on that point given the situation.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    Nigelb said:

    What has @Cookie got against women wearing lipstick? Poor Bridget!

    Evidence?
    His own words upthread.

    Or are you doubting she wears ‘excessive’ lipstick ?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YMlALAaEwfA
    Yes, see, it's instinctive- even the song made my flinch with displeasure at the mental image.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    The point of the backstop was not to get into it in the first place.

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214
    So the DUP are more important than anyone else? Damn stupid promise. They know they can throw their non-gay dinosaur stuffed toys out the pram and fill their nappies whenever they want and nanny will come running.
    Current polls suggest a hung parliament, in which case to have any chance of surviving as PM Johnson would need DUP support, hence the new urgency in UK government moves to change the NI Protocol
    In other words, the Tories will sell out every vestige of rational government to stay in power. So that's OK.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Why is that baffling?

    The Good Friday Agreement was about power sharing across communities and not about winner-takes-all majoritarianism.

    At the Assembly election as far as I can see zero unionist MLAs were elected who support the NI Protocol.

    So by the standards of the Good Friday Agreement (cross-community consensus is needed) the NI Protocol has failed.
    And yet the government agreed to majoritarianism in the Protocol, which states that if a majority of NI voters back it it should remain in force.

    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Though I did note Theresa May telling Jeffrey Donaldson in the Commons yesterday that had he voted for her deal he would largely have avoided an Irish Sea border

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1524065734132965378?s=20&t=6rA2Rr0ExJJSY8XoRCtIXg
    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Link please to poll
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    Oops don't know how that happened. Sorry @Benpointer and @HYUFD .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    Not to mention the aristocracy, royalty and squirearchy.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    dixiedean said:

    3 common brands which I find are way superior to any cheaper competitor.
    Fairy liquid, HP sauce and Hellmann's mayonnaise.
    Apart from those, don't really insist on any. Of course Heinz make the best beans. But they aren't that much better.

    Crosse & Blackwell baked beans have their own cult following. Of course, they are not own-brand.
    The revelation came to me from a chef (can't remember which one - maybe Nigel Slater) who cooked his tinned baked beans (with a little black pepper) on a really low heat for ages - I mean ages - on the hob in a heavy based pan. They go all thick and gloopy and crusty at the edges. But the taste! Seems to concentrate the sweetness.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,866

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Bitcoin is a currency, plain and simple. It's something you can, in theory, exchange for goods and services (though not many people do, a bit like gold).

    Its value derives from its hardness, a bit like gold. You can't just print more of it, therefore the supply is controlled and predictable.

    A bet on bitcoin is effectively a bet against fiat currencies, against inflation, against central banks trying to maintain control.

    Placing bitcoin in the same category as a tesla share is fundamentally mis-labelling it. What gives the dollar value? People believe it has value. What gives bitcoin value? People believe it has value.

    The value of a $10 note is about .02 in paper and ink, backed by people's belief in it. The value of a bitcoin is the power used to generate it, backed by people's belief in it.

    As Morpheus says, "you think that's air you're breathing?"

    The value of fiat currency is also backed up by the fact you can use it to pay your taxes. Buying into crypto means believing that governments will allow an alternative to their own currency to prosper. Given that this robs government's of seigniorage revenue while facilitating tax evasion and organised crime I don't think this is a plausible proposition. Personally I have no crypto in my portfolio.
    You are quite correct, in that governments are doing what they can to stop it. Hence why it has been banned in China, and is now being regulated to death in America. The question is, can you stop it entirely (probably not in America, as it would be unconstitutional) and can individual countries banning it prevent it from continuing to be used, either in other countries, or underground, as dollars were in the USSR. The experience of trying to regulate / censor the internet, which also works on a distributed, censorship-resistant by design basis, suggests not. But you have a good point, and IMO the reason bitcoin is *only* worth what it's worth right now is the efforts China has made to ban it.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    Sandpit said:

    On Crypto - and NFTs for that matter - I simply don't understand the supposed value held. Yes people apparently want to pay $30k for a bitcoin, but isn't that its only value - other loons?

    At one time, I thought that Bitcoin would eventually trend towards the cost of electricity required to mine one. Not sure now though, I think it could collapse completely.

    All the other coins and NFTs have very little tangible value beyond speculation and money laundering. They’re 21st century tulip bulbs.

    (Did you manage to move your safe?).
    Not yet - the guy is going to come and look this weekend and formulate a plan. It will be hoist onto a heavy-duty trolley job - I have step-free access from the road so the tricky bit is getting it off the plinth its on.
    I had a mate with a safe so big it saved his house… during the war a bomb went through the windier and landed behind the safe… directed the blast outwards and meant he only lost a wall not his house…
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270
    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    What has @Cookie got against women wearing lipstick? Poor Bridget!

    Evidence?
    His own words upthread.

    Or are you doubting she wears ‘excessive’ lipstick ?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YMlALAaEwfA
    Yes, see, it's instinctive- even the song made my flinch with displeasure at the mental image.
    I've always found "Put your lipstick round my dipstick" a sound conversational gambit.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨🚨🇪🇺🇬🇧🐖🐄🐖🐄🇬🇧🇪🇺🚨🚨NEW: Vets and farmers warn @Jacob_Rees_Mogg decision to delay #Brexit border checks on EU food imports is "accident waiting to happen"...my @ft latest, revealing details of biosecurity breaches that already occurred/1
    https://www.ft.com/content/35f54034-6551-49d9-bf36-ed463477cbca

    What do vets and farmers know about biosecurity?

    They should read he PB brain trust instead...

    Producer Interest seeking Protectionism - colour me shocked!

    So EU food is so very dangerous it should be checked, is that your claim? What checks were we doing pre-Brexit? 🤔
    Why send EU-standard food to the UK now when you know you don’t have to?

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Bitcoin is a currency, plain and simple. It's something you can, in theory, exchange for goods and services (though not many people do, a bit like gold).

    Its value derives from its hardness, a bit like gold. You can't just print more of it, therefore the supply is controlled and predictable.

    A bet on bitcoin is effectively a bet against fiat currencies, against inflation, against central banks trying to maintain control.

    Placing bitcoin in the same category as a tesla share is fundamentally mis-labelling it. What gives the dollar value? People believe it has value. What gives bitcoin value? People believe it has value.

    The value of a $10 note is about .02 in paper and ink, backed by people's belief in it. The value of a bitcoin is the power used to generate it, backed by people's belief in it.

    As Morpheus says, "you think that's air you're breathing?"

    Gold has been a currency because it cannot be replicated, does not tarnish and yet the overall volume of it can be mined to modestly increase the money supply each year. There’s a few other elements you might substitute but none as good as gold.

    Conversely there are an unlimited amount of different cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is not even the most fit for purpose at the simple job of performing transactions. It just has the strongest brand.

    Bitcoin is considered a currency by its advocates for precisely the reasons you list above (it can't be replicated mathematically, tarnished, and the supply is algorithmically controlled, with a hard cap at 21m).

    Saying "there are an infinite amount of cryptocurrencies", well, yeah, but gold competes against diamonds, silver, rolex watches, etc, for whatever you want to describe as "currency" too. Gold isn't the "only" thing out there with the properties you describe. It's just the strongest brand.
    Knock yourself out then and ask for your salary / pension to be paid in btc using today’s exchange rate in perpetuity
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    We've just indefinitely delayed the imposition of the inbound checks mandated by the oven-ready deal. Which means for an indefinite period the EU are responsible for safety standards of goods coming into the UK.

    In theory we can set our own standards. But as we're unable to enforce them...
    Its gone over your head it seems that the ability to drop EU-mandated checks or rules is precisely a benefit won by not being aligned to the EU.

    We don't need to enforce them, we can recognise the EU as a safe region and recognise their standards are equivalent to our own.

    What purpose do those "checks" serve other than protectionist self-harm.

    We should abolish such checks with any other nations, blocs or regions that have equivalent standards too. Protectionism is self-harming.
    I wouldn’t say it quite the same way, but you’re right that the difference is between equivalence and alignment of standards.

    The UK side wants equivalence as the basis for trade, and the EU side wants alignment.
    The Good News is that the UK has abandoned the work needed to make any checks. So they can call it what they want - the EU can set any standards it wants and we won't be checking. So as we won't be able to set different standards and even when we claimed we would our standards would only increase, there is no longer any reason for any checks in either direction.

    This also becomes the solution to the NI protocol. Get the EU to accept that the UK has accepted its primacy on standards. Which means there is no need to run checks on goods leaving the GB for the EU. Which means no need for checks on goods crossing the intra-Irish border or the North Sea. Job done. And whats more this is already the de facto position - Mogg scrapped plans for standards checks. We just need to get this formally recognised and accepted. A classic fudge solution.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Why is that baffling?

    The Good Friday Agreement was about power sharing across communities and not about winner-takes-all majoritarianism.

    At the Assembly election as far as I can see zero unionist MLAs were elected who support the NI Protocol.

    So by the standards of the Good Friday Agreement (cross-community consensus is needed) the NI Protocol has failed.
    And yet the government agreed to majoritarianism in the Protocol, which states that if a majority of NI voters back it it should remain in force.

    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Though I did note Theresa May telling Jeffrey Donaldson in the Commons yesterday that had he voted for her deal he would largely have avoided an Irish Sea border

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1524065734132965378?s=20&t=6rA2Rr0ExJJSY8XoRCtIXg
    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Link please to poll
    Most Unionist voters don't want a border in the Irish Sea, most non aligned voters don't want a border in Ireland
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Coffee Notes:

    I asked for thoughts on coffee machines for a small cafe the other week.

    We ended up going for a consumer bean-to-cup on the basis that it does make a nice coffee, but is also inexpensive enough that it will do the job whilst trade is low and starts to build, and we can either take it home and buy a larger machine if required, or just get another one to go next to it.

    We went for one of these at around £300.

    https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb//etam29-510-sb-autentica-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine/p/ETAM29.510.SB

    Simple, and makes a very nice cup off coffee, but is quite customisable. A slight annoyance is that it works in "low medium high" rather than grams of coffee per shot.

    But DeLonghi need some serious attention to their incomprehensible model numbers.

    I missed your original post - I would have suggested the Gaggia Velasca (£499 Caffe Italia). We have one and it is excellent.
    I have a jar of Kenco Smooth. A £5 jar lasts for a couple of months.

    Job done.
    That's like saying to someone who buys a PS5 that you have a crossword book and job done.
    Not really. It's still coffee. It does the same job.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between people who overpay for 'luxury' coffee and those who overpay by worshipping at the altar of Apple?

    (Runs for cover...)
    Its not the same coffee at all.

    You need decent pressure to make coffee properly and get a decent crema on your espresso. That doesn't happen with any instant coffee I've ever seen.

    Its like saying there's no difference between an old-fashioned landline and an iPhone. The branding doesn't matter, they're completely different products.
    Espresso? What's that? ;)

    Instant coffee is coffee. The coffee you drink is coffee. I drink it to get a little caffeine hit and to quench my thirst. It does the job.

    Why do you drink your very expensive coffee? The same reasons?

    It's like someone drinking a £10 bottle of wine from Mozzies and someone else drinking a £100 bottle. Probably worse, in terms of cost...
    There's no hope for you. Go get a flat white from Starbucks and compare it with your instant coffee. Different product entirely.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Why is that baffling?

    The Good Friday Agreement was about power sharing across communities and not about winner-takes-all majoritarianism.

    At the Assembly election as far as I can see zero unionist MLAs were elected who support the NI Protocol.

    So by the standards of the Good Friday Agreement (cross-community consensus is needed) the NI Protocol has failed.
    And yet the government agreed to majoritarianism in the Protocol, which states that if a majority of NI voters back it it should remain in force.

    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Though I did note Theresa May telling Jeffrey Donaldson in the Commons yesterday that had he voted for her deal he would largely have avoided an Irish Sea border

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1524065734132965378?s=20&t=6rA2Rr0ExJJSY8XoRCtIXg
    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Link please to poll
    Problem with that is it happens to be impossible, so it's a Brexiter unicorn with frilly rainbow ribbons anyway. So I'd be very surprised to see any responsible polling company asking that question, unless it's a spoof test like the Mr DAvey/hikergate one the other day.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    SHOPPERS have been left perplexed by a mysterious tin of “Boris Beans” that was photographed in a supermarket.

    A member of the public said the product, an apparent protest against the current cost-of-living crisis, was found in Tesco Express on Queens Road, Brighton.

    The "Boris Beans" are said to come in a tasty “austerity sauce” with “misery guaranteed”.

    It comes after a Tory minister said hard-up families should switch to supermarket value brands to survive.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20125694.boris-beans-bring-bemusement-baffled-would-be-buyers/

    The irony to me is the level of stupidity which still thinks that the vast of majority of branded products are not identical to the generic equivalents in all respects except price. The advice was eminently sensible.
    The level of stupidity involved in thinking that stupidity is likely in issue in a dispute over verifiable facts, is disturbing.

    You are just wrong: it varies by product. Tesco jaffa cakes are jaffa cakes (I know a bloke who drives the lorry from the jaffa cake factory to tescos); Tesco Dorito knock offs are seemingly offcuts from a North Korean cardboard factory (but own brand salsa is acceptable, so buy Doritos and dip them in that).

    Bonus tip:Tesco's Finest wines are almost all excellent vfm.
    Good morning One & All!
    Bro-in-law used to work for a big confectionary manufacturer. Made sweets for several big firms. The difference was frequently, although not always, the packaging.
    And years ago I knew a chap who was production manager at a firm which made the sort of vitamin products advertised as being 'finest'.
    Yes, you've guessed it. Often off the same production line as their 'competitors'.
    25 or so years ago, the supermarkets had a 'bean war', where they all went mad trying to have the cheapest baked beans. Myself and some friends bought a load of cans and did a taste testing. The really cheap beans - I think one can was even a few pence - had water-like tomato sauce that was gritty and hard, tasteless beans. Almost literal sweepings off the factory floor ...
    John Ruskin applies, of course.
    Can you expand on that? I'm not aware of a specific quote?

    Although the tasting occurred not a million miles away from the location of one of Ruskin's best-known quotes, involving fools. So it was an apt location for us .... ;)

    'There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Why is that baffling?

    The Good Friday Agreement was about power sharing across communities and not about winner-takes-all majoritarianism.

    At the Assembly election as far as I can see zero unionist MLAs were elected who support the NI Protocol.

    So by the standards of the Good Friday Agreement (cross-community consensus is needed) the NI Protocol has failed.
    And yet the government agreed to majoritarianism in the Protocol, which states that if a majority of NI voters back it it should remain in force.

    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Though I did note Theresa May telling Jeffrey Donaldson in the Commons yesterday that had he voted for her deal he would largely have avoided an Irish Sea border

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1524065734132965378?s=20&t=6rA2Rr0ExJJSY8XoRCtIXg
    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Link please to poll
    Most Unionist voters don't want a border in the Irish Sea, most non aligned voters don't want a border in Ireland
    Did they teach you Boolean algebra at school?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Why is that baffling?

    The Good Friday Agreement was about power sharing across communities and not about winner-takes-all majoritarianism.

    At the Assembly election as far as I can see zero unionist MLAs were elected who support the NI Protocol.

    So by the standards of the Good Friday Agreement (cross-community consensus is needed) the NI Protocol has failed.
    And yet the government agreed to majoritarianism in the Protocol, which states that if a majority of NI voters back it it should remain in force.

    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Though I did note Theresa May telling Jeffrey Donaldson in the Commons yesterday that had he voted for her deal he would largely have avoided an Irish Sea border

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1524065734132965378?s=20&t=6rA2Rr0ExJJSY8XoRCtIXg
    2016 EURef in NI:

    Remain 56%
    Leave 44%
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    The point of the backstop was not to get into it in the first place.

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214
    So the DUP are more important than anyone else? Damn stupid promise. They know they can throw their non-gay dinosaur stuffed toys out the pram and fill their nappies whenever they want and nanny will come running.
    Current polls suggest a hung parliament, in which case to have any chance of surviving as PM Johnson would need DUP support, hence the new urgency in UK government moves to change the NI Protocol
    You really think putting electoral calculations before resolving issues to mutual benefit is more important
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited May 2022

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    Buildhub.org.uk.

    Community owned via a Company Limited by Guarantee by the founder members, and strong policies on commercial self-promotion not allowed. We set it up back in 2016when E-Build closed down.

    Strong emphasis on greenery amongst the core membership.

    11k members (obvs some have moved on), about 400k posts.

    I'll PM you.

    There is also Green Building Forum, but that has been quieter for a few years.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    Or maybe this better reflects @Cookie view?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjRa6pDZVM

    Pretty much, yes!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    "best" = "most expensive and socially exclusive".
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨🚨🇪🇺🇬🇧🐖🐄🐖🐄🇬🇧🇪🇺🚨🚨NEW: Vets and farmers warn @Jacob_Rees_Mogg decision to delay #Brexit border checks on EU food imports is "accident waiting to happen"...my @ft latest, revealing details of biosecurity breaches that already occurred/1
    https://www.ft.com/content/35f54034-6551-49d9-bf36-ed463477cbca

    What do vets and farmers know about biosecurity?

    They should read he PB brain trust instead...

    When we were in the EU there were no checks on food imports, so why is not having them now a problem? Has the EU dropped food standards?
    The great news for farmers and food manufacturers in the EU is that they no longer have to throw sub-standard produce away, they can send it to Britain.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    MattW said:

    Poor Wordle for me today.

    Not difficult, but too many mistakes.

    Wordle 326 6/6

    ⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩
    ⬜🟩⬜🟨⬜
    ⬜⬜🟩⬜⬜
    🟨🟩⬜🟨🟩
    🟨🟩🟩⬜🟩
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    My first time in two today.
    Fell perfect with my regular first guess of course.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Bitcoin is a currency, plain and simple. It's something you can, in theory, exchange for goods and services (though not many people do, a bit like gold).

    Its value derives from its hardness, a bit like gold. You can't just print more of it, therefore the supply is controlled and predictable.

    A bet on bitcoin is effectively a bet against fiat currencies, against inflation, against central banks trying to maintain control.

    Placing bitcoin in the same category as a tesla share is fundamentally mis-labelling it. What gives the dollar value? People believe it has value. What gives bitcoin value? People believe it has value.

    The value of a $10 note is about .02 in paper and ink, backed by people's belief in it. The value of a bitcoin is the power used to generate it, backed by people's belief in it.

    As Morpheus says, "you think that's air you're breathing?"

    The value of fiat currency is also backed up by the fact you can use it to pay your taxes. Buying into crypto means believing that governments will allow an alternative to their own currency to prosper. Given that this robs government's of seigniorage revenue while facilitating tax evasion and organised crime I don't think this is a plausible proposition. Personally I have no crypto in my portfolio.
    You are quite correct, in that governments are doing what they can to stop it. Hence why it has been banned in China, and is now being regulated to death in America. The question is, can you stop it entirely (probably not in America, as it would be unconstitutional) and can individual countries banning it prevent it from continuing to be used, either in other countries, or underground, as dollars were in the USSR. The experience of trying to regulate / censor the internet, which also works on a distributed, censorship-resistant by design basis, suggests not. But you have a good point, and IMO the reason bitcoin is *only* worth what it's worth right now is the efforts China has made to ban it.
    One might argue that Bitcoin is worth what it is worth, until it runs out of mugs to buy it at whatever rate it eventually reaches. Like any non-productive pyramid scheme, we know exactly where it ends up, sooner or later.

    And that is leaving aside the gross immorality of burning real (scarce) resources to generate the "asset".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    The point of the backstop was not to get into it in the first place.

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214
    So the DUP are more important than anyone else? Damn stupid promise. They know they can throw their non-gay dinosaur stuffed toys out the pram and fill their nappies whenever they want and nanny will come running.
    Current polls suggest a hung parliament, in which case to have any chance of surviving as PM Johnson would need DUP support, hence the new urgency in UK government moves to change the NI Protocol
    You really think putting electoral calculations before resolving issues to mutual benefit is more important
    Of course. All is to be sacrificed to the survival of the Tory Party.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    "best" = "most expensive and socially exclusive".
    They all give each other jobs. Britain is a closed shop run by well-bred nonentities.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Well, as Mrs May was gleefully saying yesterday, they were warned!

    I can see why she stayed on the backbenches. She is having a great time with the schadenfreude.
    If she’d got her way, we’d be stuck indefinitely in the Backstop, eating yet another of Macron’s “Screw the British” pieces of EU legislation over which we had no say.

    The issue with the Protocol was always the sequencing, it was destined to be revisited in light of the later trade agreement. That the EU have no intention of doing this, and refuse to implement the trusted trader scheme or the electronic border, is a show of bad faith on their part.

    A16 is the mechanism by which they can be forced to actually negotiate on the stalled points, and a lack of agreement acceptable to all comunities in NI exacerbates political tensions there.
    The point of the backstop was not to get into it in the first place.

    Meanwhile, as DUP big cheese Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Commons yesterday:-

    the Prime Minister came to our party conference and told us that there would be an Irish sea border “over his dead body”. That is what he told us, and unfortunately the protocol created an Irish sea border and it is harming our economy. I am only asking the Prime Minister to honour the commitments that he made to us. I am not asking him to do anything more than that.
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-05-10/debates/CBAB1589-5432-4E81-B923-4AC59B611F67/DebateOnTheAddress#contribution-0F58818C-CFC7-4522-A685-BFAB1865E214
    So the DUP are more important than anyone else? Damn stupid promise. They know they can throw their non-gay dinosaur stuffed toys out the pram and fill their nappies whenever they want and nanny will come running.
    Current polls suggest a hung parliament, in which case to have any chance of surviving as PM Johnson would need DUP support, hence the new urgency in UK government moves to change the NI Protocol
    You really think putting electoral calculations before resolving issues to mutual benefit is more important
    Of course a government that has no strong attachment to democracy and the rule of law is going to act in that way. What else would you expect?

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    MattW said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    Buildhub.org.uk.

    Community owned via a Company Limited by Guarantee by the founder members, and strong policies on commercial self-promotion not allowed. We set it up back in 2016when E-Build closed down.

    Strong emphasis on greenery amongst the core membership.

    11k members (obvs some have moved on), about 400k posts.

    I'll PM you.

    There is also Green Building Forum, but that has been quieter for a few years.
    Many thanks!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    "best" = "most expensive and socially exclusive".
    Eton and Fettes, the Heinz and Crosse & Blackwell of secondary education.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,866
    mwadams said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Bitcoin is a currency, plain and simple. It's something you can, in theory, exchange for goods and services (though not many people do, a bit like gold).

    Its value derives from its hardness, a bit like gold. You can't just print more of it, therefore the supply is controlled and predictable.

    A bet on bitcoin is effectively a bet against fiat currencies, against inflation, against central banks trying to maintain control.

    Placing bitcoin in the same category as a tesla share is fundamentally mis-labelling it. What gives the dollar value? People believe it has value. What gives bitcoin value? People believe it has value.

    The value of a $10 note is about .02 in paper and ink, backed by people's belief in it. The value of a bitcoin is the power used to generate it, backed by people's belief in it.

    As Morpheus says, "you think that's air you're breathing?"

    The value of fiat currency is also backed up by the fact you can use it to pay your taxes. Buying into crypto means believing that governments will allow an alternative to their own currency to prosper. Given that this robs government's of seigniorage revenue while facilitating tax evasion and organised crime I don't think this is a plausible proposition. Personally I have no crypto in my portfolio.
    You are quite correct, in that governments are doing what they can to stop it. Hence why it has been banned in China, and is now being regulated to death in America. The question is, can you stop it entirely (probably not in America, as it would be unconstitutional) and can individual countries banning it prevent it from continuing to be used, either in other countries, or underground, as dollars were in the USSR. The experience of trying to regulate / censor the internet, which also works on a distributed, censorship-resistant by design basis, suggests not. But you have a good point, and IMO the reason bitcoin is *only* worth what it's worth right now is the efforts China has made to ban it.
    One might argue that Bitcoin is worth what it is worth, until it runs out of mugs to buy it at whatever rate it eventually reaches. Like any non-productive pyramid scheme, we know exactly where it ends up, sooner or later.

    And that is leaving aside the gross immorality of burning real (scarce) resources to generate the "asset".
    Agree - now substitute the word "bitcoin" for "dollar".
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Coffee Notes:

    I asked for thoughts on coffee machines for a small cafe the other week.

    We ended up going for a consumer bean-to-cup on the basis that it does make a nice coffee, but is also inexpensive enough that it will do the job whilst trade is low and starts to build, and we can either take it home and buy a larger machine if required, or just get another one to go next to it.

    We went for one of these at around £300.

    https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb//etam29-510-sb-autentica-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine/p/ETAM29.510.SB

    Simple, and makes a very nice cup off coffee, but is quite customisable. A slight annoyance is that it works in "low medium high" rather than grams of coffee per shot.

    But DeLonghi need some serious attention to their incomprehensible model numbers.

    I missed your original post - I would have suggested the Gaggia Velasca (£499 Caffe Italia). We have one and it is excellent.
    I have a jar of Kenco Smooth. A £5 jar lasts for a couple of months.

    Job done.
    That's like saying to someone who buys a PS5 that you have a crossword book and job done.
    Not really. It's still coffee. It does the same job.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between people who overpay for 'luxury' coffee and those who overpay by worshipping at the altar of Apple?

    (Runs for cover...)
    Its not the same coffee at all.

    You need decent pressure to make coffee properly and get a decent crema on your espresso. That doesn't happen with any instant coffee I've ever seen.

    Its like saying there's no difference between an old-fashioned landline and an iPhone. The branding doesn't matter, they're completely different products.
    Espresso? What's that? ;)

    Instant coffee is coffee. The coffee you drink is coffee. I drink it to get a little caffeine hit and to quench my thirst. It does the job.

    Why do you drink your very expensive coffee? The same reasons?

    It's like someone drinking a £10 bottle of wine from Mozzies and someone else drinking a £100 bottle. Probably worse, in terms of cost...
    There's no hope for you. Go get a flat white from Starbucks and compare it with your instant coffee. Different product entirely.
    PB is full of people who have no discernible taste or interest in food. It really is quite a depressing place to be at times.

    Anyway, off to brew a decent coffee.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    Maybe that is why the Country is going wrong then
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,866
    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    moonshine said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Bitcoin is a currency, plain and simple. It's something you can, in theory, exchange for goods and services (though not many people do, a bit like gold).

    Its value derives from its hardness, a bit like gold. You can't just print more of it, therefore the supply is controlled and predictable.

    A bet on bitcoin is effectively a bet against fiat currencies, against inflation, against central banks trying to maintain control.

    Placing bitcoin in the same category as a tesla share is fundamentally mis-labelling it. What gives the dollar value? People believe it has value. What gives bitcoin value? People believe it has value.

    The value of a $10 note is about .02 in paper and ink, backed by people's belief in it. The value of a bitcoin is the power used to generate it, backed by people's belief in it.

    As Morpheus says, "you think that's air you're breathing?"

    Gold has been a currency because it cannot be replicated, does not tarnish and yet the overall volume of it can be mined to modestly increase the money supply each year. There’s a few other elements you might substitute but none as good as gold.

    Conversely there are an unlimited amount of different cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is not even the most fit for purpose at the simple job of performing transactions. It just has the strongest brand.

    Bitcoin is considered a currency by its advocates for precisely the reasons you list above (it can't be replicated mathematically, tarnished, and the supply is algorithmically controlled, with a hard cap at 21m).

    Saying "there are an infinite amount of cryptocurrencies", well, yeah, but gold competes against diamonds, silver, rolex watches, etc, for whatever you want to describe as "currency" too. Gold isn't the "only" thing out there with the properties you describe. It's just the strongest brand.
    Knock yourself out then and ask for your salary / pension to be paid in btc using today’s exchange rate in perpetuity
    Why would I want to be paid in _any_ currency using today's exchange rate in perpetuity?

    I'd be happy to be paid in bitcoin, I'd be happy to be paid in gold, I'd be happy to be paid in yen, etc. But I wouldn't want to be paid in any of them at an exchange rate for perpetuity.

    I'll take all the tesla stock off your hands at $300 a share in perpetuity if you like? Or do you see how ridiculous that sounds?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Baffled. @trussliz says NI Protocol is undermining Unionism and democracy in Northern Ireland...

    ...so she pushes for wholesale unravelling of a Protcol that a clear majority of MLAs elected in last week's Assembly election support??

    ...extraordinary position to be in. #brexit
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1524284791130144768/photo/1

    Why is that baffling?

    The Good Friday Agreement was about power sharing across communities and not about winner-takes-all majoritarianism.

    At the Assembly election as far as I can see zero unionist MLAs were elected who support the NI Protocol.

    So by the standards of the Good Friday Agreement (cross-community consensus is needed) the NI Protocol has failed.
    And yet the government agreed to majoritarianism in the Protocol, which states that if a majority of NI voters back it it should remain in force.

    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Though I did note Theresa May telling Jeffrey Donaldson in the Commons yesterday that had he voted for her deal he would largely have avoided an Irish Sea border

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1524065734132965378?s=20&t=6rA2Rr0ExJJSY8XoRCtIXg
    A majority of NI voters would be happy to amend the protocol to remove the Irish Sea border as long as there was no border in Ireland.

    Link please to poll
    Most Unionist voters don't want a border in the Irish Sea, most non aligned voters don't want a border in Ireland
    That is not what you said and no poll then
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    IanB2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    On another note entirely, this is a brilliant thread on how old borders reflect modern political trends. One is missing, IMO: the division of England when the Danelaw was created in the late 9th century.
    https://twitter.com/valen10francois/status/1524040709862576131?s=21&t=IOg4K6mcrXuXQP0OoLrvIA

    Really interesting, thanks.
    Personally have been wondering about swings to the Tories in the Kingdom of Mercia.
    I was driving through some of the villages on the karst above Trieste yesterday, and it was striking how many of them had red flags hung out for May Day. Not just from individual windows or balconies, but some of them on large poles high above houses, so they could be seen from a distance on approaching the village, or hung above the main road from trees. A lot of trouble has been gone to hanging all those flags, and there must be a good degree of support given the number of buildings involved.

    Most of them were the plain red workers’ flag but one or two carried a symbol on them, which a bit of research later found to be the flag of Trieste when it was briefly an independent free republic (if non functioning) in the late 40s and early 50s.

    An interesting hangover from the past.
    I think he perhaps underplays forced people movements.

    It reminds me of when I was working for a large engineering combine.

    Like local areas, the project or product groups stayed intact, and everything between the tectonic plates would be swept away at each organisation. So the key if you planned to stay employed there was to avoid reaching non-specialist management or moving into a general service function, as those were the cost-savings each time it was bought or sold.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    "best" = "most expensive and socially exclusive".
    Not grammars
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    IshmaelZ said:

    CD13 said:

    Many years ago, when I was a lad, I had a job loading 1cwt bags of fertilizer onto pallets. This was when the UK granulated nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium compounds to make fertilizer. They were bagged in situ, and the farmer came with their wagons to collect it.

    I remember one old farmer being emphatic. "I don't want any of that Fisons rubbish boy, I want Hadfields." It was the work of seconds to exchange the Fisons bags for the Hadfields ones. He paid close to £2 a ton extra for the privilege. This was when £2 was a lot of money.

    Some people never learn.

    Yes N P and K can't really be anything else. Like buying nurofen when it is literally illegal for it to vary from unbranded ibuprofen. Then again, supermarket petrol and diesel are, as I understand it, crap - they skimp on the additives
    On generic pain killers vs branded, there is science behind rates of release from pills etc. The active ingredient is identical, but it is possible to produce products that release the active faster. Whether they are absorbed any faster is a different question.

    I only buy generic.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    I don't disagree with any of that (although we may disagree on the reason for the last para) and in particular I think Hague would have been a very interesting PM, but you definitely come over as in awe of your 'betters'. And the reason for the ' ' is that they definitely aren't better than you. And this isn't just education, but also with regard to class. You seem to look up to those who are better bred.

    The reason I find it strange is I treat everyone equally. It might just be me, I don't know, but I express no deference to anyone and don't expect any myself.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited May 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    "best" = "most expensive and socially exclusive".
    Not grammars
    And how do parents get into the catchment areas for them, and for C of E schools? Buying houses, coaching for entrance, fiddling the C of E game ("Education Christians") and so on. They don't do it with milkbottle tops.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    I don't disagree with any of that (although we may disagree on the reason for the last para) and in particular I think Hague would have been a very interesting PM, but you definitely come over as in awe of your 'betters'. And the reason for the ' ' is that they definitely aren't better than you. And this isn't just education, but also with regard to class. You seem to look up to those who are better bred.

    The reason I find it strange is I treat everyone equally. It might just be me, I don't know, but I express no deference to anyone and don't expect any myself.
    Quite. When I want a surgeon I want a competent one. HYUFD wants a posh one from Clifton who might be sort of better educated and therefore perhaps better trained. Rather different logic.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    Poor Wordle for me today.

    Not difficult, but too many mistakes.

    Wordle 326 6/6

    ⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩
    ⬜🟩⬜🟨⬜
    ⬜⬜🟩⬜⬜
    🟨🟩⬜🟨🟩
    🟨🟩🟩⬜🟩
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    My first time in two today.
    Fell perfect with my regular first guess of course.
    Quordle bottom right is testing.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    Eton and Oxford are overrepresented. Kuper's book Chums has a go at explaining why in terms of early debate training at both establishments, and of course Oxford's PPE course is a magnet for political types.

    OT from that book — I'd already known that Theresa May and Philip were introduced by Benazir Bhutto but not that Philip was encouraged to propose by Malcolm Turnbull. And that is the trouble with the book: more anecdotes than analysis.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Coffee Notes:

    I asked for thoughts on coffee machines for a small cafe the other week.

    We ended up going for a consumer bean-to-cup on the basis that it does make a nice coffee, but is also inexpensive enough that it will do the job whilst trade is low and starts to build, and we can either take it home and buy a larger machine if required, or just get another one to go next to it.

    We went for one of these at around £300.

    https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb//etam29-510-sb-autentica-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine/p/ETAM29.510.SB

    Simple, and makes a very nice cup off coffee, but is quite customisable. A slight annoyance is that it works in "low medium high" rather than grams of coffee per shot.

    But DeLonghi need some serious attention to their incomprehensible model numbers.

    I missed your original post - I would have suggested the Gaggia Velasca (£499 Caffe Italia). We have one and it is excellent.
    I have a jar of Kenco Smooth. A £5 jar lasts for a couple of months.

    Job done.
    That's like saying to someone who buys a PS5 that you have a crossword book and job done.
    Not really. It's still coffee. It does the same job.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between people who overpay for 'luxury' coffee and those who overpay by worshipping at the altar of Apple?

    (Runs for cover...)
    Its not the same coffee at all.

    You need decent pressure to make coffee properly and get a decent crema on your espresso. That doesn't happen with any instant coffee I've ever seen.

    Its like saying there's no difference between an old-fashioned landline and an iPhone. The branding doesn't matter, they're completely different products.
    Espresso? What's that? ;)

    Instant coffee is coffee. The coffee you drink is coffee. I drink it to get a little caffeine hit and to quench my thirst. It does the job.

    Why do you drink your very expensive coffee? The same reasons?

    It's like someone drinking a £10 bottle of wine from Mozzies and someone else drinking a £100 bottle. Probably worse, in terms of cost...
    There's no hope for you. Go get a flat white from Starbucks and compare it with your instant coffee. Different product entirely.
    Have I said it isn't? But when I get up at four in the morning, the instant coffee does the job. Boil kettle. Put a spoon of granules in the cup. Add sweetener and milk. Drink. Wash up. Job done.

    It's a pleasant little ritual, a little like washing the dishes (which I actually quite like doing, especially as I can watch the birds in our square metre of 'garden').
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314


    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    CD13 said:

    Many years ago, when I was a lad, I had a job loading 1cwt bags of fertilizer onto pallets. This was when the UK granulated nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium compounds to make fertilizer. They were bagged in situ, and the farmer came with their wagons to collect it.

    I remember one old farmer being emphatic. "I don't want any of that Fisons rubbish boy, I want Hadfields." It was the work of seconds to exchange the Fisons bags for the Hadfields ones. He paid close to £2 a ton extra for the privilege. This was when £2 was a lot of money.

    Some people never learn.

    Yes N P and K can't really be anything else. Like buying nurofen when it is literally illegal for it to vary from unbranded ibuprofen. Then again, supermarket petrol and diesel are, as I understand it, crap - they skimp on the additives
    I know the average age of PB-ers is quite high, but if @CD13 can remember when “£2 was a lot of money” then I estimate he must be about 320 years old. Which is impressive

    And on that note, Happy Birthday @MikeSmithson
    I remember as an 18 year old when I used to borrow my dad's car I would occasionally top it up with petrol with a £1 worth.
    My weekend/summer job when I was a teenager in the 1970s was as a petrol pump attendant.
    I remember the moans when the price went up from 72p to 74p - a gallon!
    Petrol pump attendant. That was probably seen as a safe job once. People will always drive cars.
    Still have them out here. I sometimes forget when back in the UK, and spend a minute waiting for the attendant before realising I need to get out and pump my own!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    "best" = "most expensive and socially exclusive".
    Eton and Fettes, the Heinz and Crosse & Blackwell of secondary education.
    Now that really, really is unfair to C&B beans.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    Not really. It's still coffee. It does the same job.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between people who overpay for 'luxury' coffee and those who overpay by worshipping at the altar of Apple?

    (Runs for cover...)

    Just been to check whatever the fuck coffee this is. Aldi own brand. £1.29. The smell is reminiscent of overheated brake fluid.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828
    edited May 2022

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Coffee Notes:

    I asked for thoughts on coffee machines for a small cafe the other week.

    We ended up going for a consumer bean-to-cup on the basis that it does make a nice coffee, but is also inexpensive enough that it will do the job whilst trade is low and starts to build, and we can either take it home and buy a larger machine if required, or just get another one to go next to it.

    We went for one of these at around £300.

    https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb//etam29-510-sb-autentica-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine/p/ETAM29.510.SB

    Simple, and makes a very nice cup off coffee, but is quite customisable. A slight annoyance is that it works in "low medium high" rather than grams of coffee per shot.

    But DeLonghi need some serious attention to their incomprehensible model numbers.

    I missed your original post - I would have suggested the Gaggia Velasca (£499 Caffe Italia). We have one and it is excellent.
    I have a jar of Kenco Smooth. A £5 jar lasts for a couple of months.

    Job done.
    That's like saying to someone who buys a PS5 that you have a crossword book and job done.
    Not really. It's still coffee. It does the same job.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between people who overpay for 'luxury' coffee and those who overpay by worshipping at the altar of Apple?

    (Runs for cover...)
    Its not the same coffee at all.

    You need decent pressure to make coffee properly and get a decent crema on your espresso. That doesn't happen with any instant coffee I've ever seen.

    Its like saying there's no difference between an old-fashioned landline and an iPhone. The branding doesn't matter, they're completely different products.
    Espresso? What's that? ;)

    Instant coffee is coffee. The coffee you drink is coffee. I drink it to get a little caffeine hit and to quench my thirst. It does the job.

    Why do you drink your very expensive coffee? The same reasons?

    It's like someone drinking a £10 bottle of wine from Mozzies and someone else drinking a £100 bottle. Probably worse, in terms of cost...
    I no more drink coffee to get a caffeine hit than I would eat chocolate to get a calorie hit.

    I drink coffee because I enjoy it and I enjoy a good coffee more than a crap one, just as I enjoy chocolate more than Brussel Sprouts.

    A good coffee has a different texture and taste to a bad one, and you can't get the texture of a proper espresso from instant coffee. Even if it's "the same beans" you can't bottle the pressure needed to make it properly in a jar, you need a machine for that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited May 2022
    kyf_100 said:

    mwadams said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @IshmaelZ @Foxy @BartholomewRoberts

    Shares in Tesla or Amazon or Tesco are productive assets. Property is a productive asset.

    Basically, you get paid to own them (most of the time).

    Bitcoin is not a productive asset.

    Bitcoin is a currency, plain and simple. It's something you can, in theory, exchange for goods and services (though not many people do, a bit like gold).

    Its value derives from its hardness, a bit like gold. You can't just print more of it, therefore the supply is controlled and predictable.

    A bet on bitcoin is effectively a bet against fiat currencies, against inflation, against central banks trying to maintain control.

    Placing bitcoin in the same category as a tesla share is fundamentally mis-labelling it. What gives the dollar value? People believe it has value. What gives bitcoin value? People believe it has value.

    The value of a $10 note is about .02 in paper and ink, backed by people's belief in it. The value of a bitcoin is the power used to generate it, backed by people's belief in it.

    As Morpheus says, "you think that's air you're breathing?"

    The value of fiat currency is also backed up by the fact you can use it to pay your taxes. Buying into crypto means believing that governments will allow an alternative to their own currency to prosper. Given that this robs government's of seigniorage revenue while facilitating tax evasion and organised crime I don't think this is a plausible proposition. Personally I have no crypto in my portfolio.
    You are quite correct, in that governments are doing what they can to stop it. Hence why it has been banned in China, and is now being regulated to death in America. The question is, can you stop it entirely (probably not in America, as it would be unconstitutional) and can individual countries banning it prevent it from continuing to be used, either in other countries, or underground, as dollars were in the USSR. The experience of trying to regulate / censor the internet, which also works on a distributed, censorship-resistant by design basis, suggests not. But you have a good point, and IMO the reason bitcoin is *only* worth what it's worth right now is the efforts China has made to ban it.
    One might argue that Bitcoin is worth what it is worth, until it runs out of mugs to buy it at whatever rate it eventually reaches. Like any non-productive pyramid scheme, we know exactly where it ends up, sooner or later.

    And that is leaving aside the gross immorality of burning real (scarce) resources to generate the "asset".
    Agree - now substitute the word "bitcoin" for "dollar".
    The difference between a bitcoin and a dollar, is that the US government stands behind one of them, and insists on the use of it to pay taxes and debts.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Quick question to PB brains trust: can anyone recommend a green building forum?

    I used to be on the Navitron forum when we were building our house but that's now closed. Looking for another forum now we're planning our next project. Thanks!

    So why are you so infatuated with Oxbridge, public schools and grammar schools @HYUFD? You seem in awe of anyone who goes to these. You seem to treat these people as your betters. They aren't. You are just as worthy.
    I went to private school, my sister went to grammar school, my wife has an Oxford degree.

    I am not in awe of them, Churchill was a great PM despite being non Oxbridge, Hague would have been a good PM in my view and was comprehensive educated.

    However it is no surprise the best schools and universities tend to produce the most PMs
    I don't disagree with any of that (although we may disagree on the reason for the last para) and in particular I think Hague would have been a very interesting PM, but you definitely come over as in awe of your 'betters'. And the reason for the ' ' is that they definitely aren't better than you. And this isn't just education, but also with regard to class. You seem to look up to those who are better bred.

    The reason I find it strange is I treat everyone equally. It might just be me, I don't know, but I express no deference to anyone and don't expect any myself.
    I share your last paragraph completely and find it sad that some want to feel either superior or inferior to anyone and I certainty do not do deference to anybody, well maybe just my dear wife of near 60 years
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Coffee Notes:

    I asked for thoughts on coffee machines for a small cafe the other week.

    We ended up going for a consumer bean-to-cup on the basis that it does make a nice coffee, but is also inexpensive enough that it will do the job whilst trade is low and starts to build, and we can either take it home and buy a larger machine if required, or just get another one to go next to it.

    We went for one of these at around £300.

    https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb//etam29-510-sb-autentica-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine/p/ETAM29.510.SB

    Simple, and makes a very nice cup off coffee, but is quite customisable. A slight annoyance is that it works in "low medium high" rather than grams of coffee per shot.

    But DeLonghi need some serious attention to their incomprehensible model numbers.

    I missed your original post - I would have suggested the Gaggia Velasca (£499 Caffe Italia). We have one and it is excellent.
    I have a jar of Kenco Smooth. A £5 jar lasts for a couple of months.

    Job done.
    That's like saying to someone who buys a PS5 that you have a crossword book and job done.
    Not really. It's still coffee. It does the same job.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between people who overpay for 'luxury' coffee and those who overpay by worshipping at the altar of Apple?

    (Runs for cover...)
    Its not the same coffee at all.

    You need decent pressure to make coffee properly and get a decent crema on your espresso. That doesn't happen with any instant coffee I've ever seen.

    Its like saying there's no difference between an old-fashioned landline and an iPhone. The branding doesn't matter, they're completely different products.
    Espresso? What's that? ;)

    Instant coffee is coffee. The coffee you drink is coffee. I drink it to get a little caffeine hit and to quench my thirst. It does the job.

    Why do you drink your very expensive coffee? The same reasons?

    It's like someone drinking a £10 bottle of wine from Mozzies and someone else drinking a £100 bottle. Probably worse, in terms of cost...
    There's no hope for you. Go get a flat white from Starbucks and compare it with your instant coffee. Different product entirely.
    Have I said it isn't? But when I get up at four in the morning, the instant coffee does the job. Boil kettle. Put a spoon of granules in the cup. Add sweetener and milk. Drink. Wash up. Job done.

    It's a pleasant little ritual, a little like washing the dishes (which I actually quite like doing, especially as I can watch the birds in our square metre of 'garden').
    I thought it was Bart who was being the terrorist, but it's JJ.

    Beyond all hope, and why on earth would you want a coffee at 4am?

    I recommend you try the Happy Shopper brand :smile:
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    Scott_xP said:
    I've seen the phrase ratioed and ratio used in this context. What does it mean?
This discussion has been closed.