Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Breaking: Starmer’s leadership? – politicalbetting.com

123578

Comments

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873

    nico679 said:

    Great news . Finally Starmer takes back control and screws the Tories .

    The Tories have made an absolute horlicks of this, haven't they? The amazing thing is how obvious the bear trap was... yet they have wandered right into it. Is anyone engaging brain at Central Office?
    The demand for the investigation came from an independent Durham Councillor who had lost his mother due to covid and it is attendees at the event who have contradicted Starmer's story

    It may be convenient for some to blame the conservative party but this is happening because of disaffected labourites
    You may have missed various Tory MPs and cabinet ministers demanding an investigation, MrG. Check out Nadine Dorries’ Twitter account. That should help you.

    One doubts Big G needs much encouragement to check Nadine Dorries’s Twitter as he appears to take his talking points wholesale from there.
    And you have tried to close this down from day one

    Dorries is a terrible minister and I do not read her twitter - there is more to life than listening to her
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,630
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    Why not just resign when the fine is issued? Why announce in advance?

    Is this an attempt to face down Durham police?

    On the latter, yes. He's trying to be clever/lawyerly about it but the Durham police may decide to fuck him over now rather than cave. It has very high potential to backfire on him because the Met have set a precedent of handing out a FPN for the cake and the police in Durham can fall back on that if they choose to hand out a fine.
    Just need one Tory to say "blatant attempt to intimidate the police" and it leaves them with no choice but to fine him.
    It's such an easy way out as well for the Tories. "Starmer is using lawyerly intimidation tactics against the police". There's no easy comeback from that and if he gets away without a fine the stage is set that it's not because he wasn't guilty, but because he got special treatment as the LOTO.
    Hmmm - Journalists and politicians who have put Durham police under huge pressure to investigate Keir Starmer complaining about Durham police being put under huge pressure by Keir Starmer may not be taken that seriously in the court of public opinion.

    But that's various toadies and surrogates, not the PM. The issue here is Starmer doing it directly, it looks like (and is) intimidation tactics to avoid the FPN.
    Cabinet ministers and Tory MPs were demanding an investigation. The Mail ran a front page lead on it last week. Look at various Tory tweets. They were all working together.

    And yet it was all coming to nothing with the Mail giving up until an irate Corbyn supporter handed over a video and an eyewitness account to the police. That's what has triggered the investigation.
    There is no doubt that disaffected Corbynites are colluding with the Mail and others, but the investigation was announced on Friday. The alleged eyewitness turned up in the Sunday Times yesterday and said they’d cooperate with the police if contacted. The video’s been around for over a year.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited May 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Am I the only one who finds this whole story incredibly boring?

    I mean, if it had been Corbyn, at least he'd have been having the curry with Hezbollah, plotting the destruction of Israel. And if it had been Johnson, then there would probably have been karaoke, strippers and whiff-waff...

    But Starmer? A bloody chicken korma with a can of weak lager.

    Does the man have no shame?

    TBH, I was actually very disappointed how crap the #10 parties seemed to be. Breaking a childs swing and then falling asleep on the sofa, is hardly hookers and blow....the Christmas zoom quiz in particular looked awful. Where was the shagging on the photocopier!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376

    Applicant said:

    TLDR of the comments of the last hour or so:

    People on the left think it's a masterstroke by SKS and the Tories are doomed
    People on the right think SKS has put out a major hostage to fortune
    Pretty much nobody has said anything that couldn't have been predicted...

    Chunk of that is explained by different worldviews.

    My impression (remember that it's not my tribe) is that "taking one for the team/cause" makes a lot more sense to those on the left than on the right. Think that way, and the endpoints are vindication or self-sacrifice. Either of them is good. After all, they both put the Conservatives in a fairly shitty position.

    Start on the right, it's a bit different. If Starmer gets FPNed, he doesn't get to be Prime Minister, and he has lost, and that's a risk not to be taken.

    Johnson is the extreme case of this- can you imagine him ever taking one for (as opposed to from) the team? But it's an occupational hazard of being right-wing. Maggie was always disappointed that the people her government made rich didn't all become great philanthropists. When she implied that society was made of people, and wealth came with duty she meant it.

    And that's one of the reason the Conservatives ballsed up their gaming of this. They forgot who they were playing.
    Yes. This is astute. It's impossible to financially con someone not motivated by greed.
    Projecting your own motives onto others is a very common mistake in many walks of life.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    Alistair said:

    Starmer wants to get FPN'd

    Resigns, gets a cabinet job in the resulting Labour government as the Cons/Boris completely fucks up their response.

    To go instantly once fined, the voters would be open to him having a cabinet job I think.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873

    Applicant said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    Or like when much of the media and Labour MPs intimidated the Met to re-open the Downing Street investigation.
    When was it "re-opened"? My understanding was that it was simply opened, and then has been ongoing due to the huge amount of evidence of wrong doing in No10.
    It was reopened on receipt of a formal complaint by a Durham councillor who had lost his mother with covid
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    Starmer is a top lawyer. Presumably he knows the law well - particularly when he voted for a law in parliament a few months earlier, and would have had discussions within his party on whether to support the legislation.

    His USP is that he is not a clown.

    Yet even he, big-brained as he is, cannot say he did not break the law. This is a sign that the law was really, really poorly defined.

    The whole thing is ridiculous. But (shock, horror!) if the No. 10 thing was worthy of FPN's, then the Durham event is as well.

    Pretty much sums up my view.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294
    Keir is absolutely right to announce he would resign.

    It’s the only way to get a grip of a story that is a transparent smear job by Tory HQ, disaffected Corbynistas and Big G.

    It really is terrifying how this story has continued to escalate from nothing - the malevolence of Tory HQ; the power of the Daily Mail; and the gullibility of several posters on here.

    Hopefully Labour learn a lesson from this.
    The only way these Tories will be ejected is by applying full feral force.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400

    Harry Cole and Dan Hodges seem really angry

    Well they shouldn’t beat themselves up too much, we all make mistakes. Perhaps not on the level they have with this though.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999

    Wonder if SKS will take questions?

    Some easy ones surely

    1. You tweeted Boris needed to go just because it was going to be investigated by the Met. irrespective of their findings Why are you waiting?

    2 Why did you lie about Rayner

    3. Why did you eat indoors with others rather than back at the hotel

    4, What work fid you do after drinking beer. Someone present says no work was done or even planned after the Curry and Beer are they liars or you

    5. You stated nowhere was available to eat that was incorrect there were multiple places including your hotel Why did you lie about that

    6. Do you think you retain the trust of the Public a poll today showed twice as many thought you should quit compared to those who thought you should stay Is your position untenable

    Loads of other ones like were there any other instances where you broke local rules?

    I suspect he will have one robotic answer and will not be able to think on his feet so will repeat over and over again.

    I think he should say there is a Poster on PB who says I am a Labour Legend the same as John Smith so I am not going to resign

    There's an awful lot of things in there that you characterise as lying, which might well be simple ignorance.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172

    Starmer is a top lawyer. Presumably he knows the law well - particularly when he voted for a law in parliament a few months earlier, and would have had discussions within his party on whether to support the legislation.

    His USP is that he is not a clown.

    Yet even he, big-brained as he is, cannot say he did not break the law. This is a sign that the law was really, really poorly defined.

    The whole thing is ridiculous. But (shock, horror!) if the No. 10 thing was worthy of FPN's, then the Durham event is as well.

    I'm not so sure.

    The No 10 parties were back in 2020 when you could do virtually nothing.

    This was in 2021 when you could go out and about albeit in limited group sizes.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294

    Applicant said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    Or like when much of the media and Labour MPs intimidated the Met to re-open the Downing Street investigation.
    When was it "re-opened"? My understanding was that it was simply opened, and then has been ongoing due to the huge amount of evidence of wrong doing in No10.
    It was reopened on receipt of a formal complaint by a Durham councillor who had lost his mother with covid
    You keep repeating that like it means anything.

    Pathetic.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376

    rcs1000 said:

    Am I the only one who finds this whole story incredibly boring?

    I mean, if it had been Corbyn, at least he'd have been having the curry with Hezbollah, plotting the destruction of Israel. And if it had been Johnson, then there would probably have been karaoke, strippers and whiff-waff...

    But Starmer? A bloody chicken korma with a can of weak lager.

    Does the man have no shame?

    TBH, I was actually very disappointed how crap the #10 parties seemed to be. Breaking a childs swing and then falling asleep on the sofa, is hardly hookers and blow....the Christmas zoom quiz in particular looked awful. Where was the shagging on the photocopier!
    With that mountain of muscle?
  • Applicant said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    Or like when much of the media and Labour MPs intimidated the Met to re-open the Downing Street investigation.
    When was it "re-opened"? My understanding was that it was simply opened, and then has been ongoing due to the huge amount of evidence of wrong doing in No10.
    It was reopened on receipt of a formal complaint by a Durham councillor who had lost his mother with covid
    You keep repeating that like it means anything.

    Pathetic.
    He’s clearly rattled just like his friends Nadine, Dan and Harry
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    It has been quoted back to labour representatives ad infinitum by the media and near every day
    Then link to it and stop lying
    You have already had a link from a poster and accusation of lying is pathetic
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,867
    eek said:

    Starmer is a top lawyer. Presumably he knows the law well - particularly when he voted for a law in parliament a few months earlier, and would have had discussions within his party on whether to support the legislation.

    His USP is that he is not a clown.

    Yet even he, big-brained as he is, cannot say he did not break the law. This is a sign that the law was really, really poorly defined.

    The whole thing is ridiculous. But (shock, horror!) if the No. 10 thing was worthy of FPN's, then the Durham event is as well.

    I'm not so sure.

    The No 10 parties were back in 2020 when you could do virtually nothing.

    This was in 2021 when you could go out and about albeit in limited group sizes.
    “Out” being the operative word.

    In? Not so much.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    How are Durham Plod going to get out of this?

    I think I would be drafting a statement like, "Possible minor violation, but does not meet threshold of FPN of Durham Constabulary".

    Something with some leeway which does not come down heavily on one side or the other.

    They need some words to get them out of the row, and leave it to Tory and Labour to bash each other up over the stupid laws.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    Applicant said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    Or like when much of the media and Labour MPs intimidated the Met to re-open the Downing Street investigation.
    When was it "re-opened"? My understanding was that it was simply opened, and then has been ongoing due to the huge amount of evidence of wrong doing in No10.
    It was reopened on receipt of a formal complaint by a Durham councillor who had lost his mother with covid
    No Applicant suggested that the Downing Street investigation was "re-opened"
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294

    Applicant said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    Or like when much of the media and Labour MPs intimidated the Met to re-open the Downing Street investigation.
    When was it "re-opened"? My understanding was that it was simply opened, and then has been ongoing due to the huge amount of evidence of wrong doing in No10.
    It was reopened on receipt of a formal complaint by a Durham councillor who had lost his mother with covid
    You keep repeating that like it means anything.

    Pathetic.
    He’s clearly rattled just like his friends Nadine, Dan and Harry
    I actually had some respect for Big G but the way he had operated over the last week shows him to be nothing more than a partisan stooge.
  • Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    It has been quoted back to labour representatives ad infinitum by the media and near every day
    Then link to it and stop lying
    You have already had a link from a poster and accusation of lying is pathetic
    The link doesn’t satisfy the claim.

    You lied. You’re a liar.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    Starmer live on Sky
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
    THAT LITERALLY SAYS BORIS SHOULD RESIGN FOR LYING TO THE HOUSE.

    The PB Tories must stop gaslighting everybody.
    Something that would surely be determined by an investigation?
  • Starmer live on Sky

    Oh good it’s Big G blogging time I am sure this will be impartial
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999

    Starmer live on Sky

    Is Starmer ever truly alive?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    Didn't pick Starmer for a natural gambler.
    But this is the biggest, and most unexpected political gamble I can remember for some time.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,867
    Back to the demented vendetta. Whoopee.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Starmer speaking live now.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454

    Applicant said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    Or like when much of the media and Labour MPs intimidated the Met to re-open the Downing Street investigation.
    When was it "re-opened"? My understanding was that it was simply opened, and then has been ongoing due to the huge amount of evidence of wrong doing in No10.
    It was reopened on receipt of a formal complaint by a Durham councillor who had lost his mother with covid
    You keep repeating that like it means anything.

    Pathetic.
    It means something when people say it when aggrieved by Boris.

    Apparently.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    Applicant said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    Or like when much of the media and Labour MPs intimidated the Met to re-open the Downing Street investigation.
    Is this the attack line now? The Chancellor and Big Dog got fined, Starmer took on, bullied and beat up the police? The police are out to remove the Tories, not be fair, they are putty in Kier Starmer’s hands?

    Sunak and Boris got fined because they paid tax payers money to a photographer to take pictures of them having an indoor social at the height of lockdown - and once Sue Gray said, ere govner, get you your mince pies on this, it was an open and shut suitcase.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Coming out fighting by sounds of it.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,757
    edited May 2022

    Starmer is a top lawyer. Presumably he knows the law well - particularly when he voted for a law in parliament a few months earlier, and would have had discussions within his party on whether to support the legislation.

    His USP is that he is not a clown.

    Yet even he, big-brained as he is, cannot say he did not break the law. This is a sign that the law was really, really poorly defined.

    The whole thing is ridiculous. But (shock, horror!) if the No. 10 thing was worthy of FPN's, then the Durham event is as well.

    I love the line 'His USP is that he is not a clown ' Brilliant. Great line.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
    THAT LITERALLY SAYS BORIS SHOULD RESIGN FOR LYING TO THE HOUSE.

    The PB Tories must stop gaslighting everybody.
    Something that would surely be determined by an investigation?
    I saw Sarah Good with the Devil!
    I saw Goody Osborn with the Devil!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    I will resign if I get FPN
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    Only two unions jacks....disappointing ;-)
  • Well he must be certain he’s not broken any rules
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    There we go then.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    It has been quoted back to labour representatives ad infinitum by the media and near every day
    Then link to it and stop lying
    You have already had a link from a poster and accusation of lying is pathetic
    The link doesn’t satisfy the claim.

    You lied. You’re a liar.
    I would suggest you have gone too far now

    I am not a liar and you are attempting to close me down

    I will leave it to others who are not prejudiced personally on my posts
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Good statement from SKS TBF
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
    "if he misled Parliament, he must resign" – he is calling for his resignation for lying to parliament, can you not read?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172
    Probably of vague interest to some

    The Teesside Heathrow flight route has been cancelled with immediate effect (well 2 weeks) after Heathrow upped the landing fee to £30.10 a passenger.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294
    edited May 2022
    Edit
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,270
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
    Yes he should go now having demanded Johnson go on news of the FPN investigation. The fact that Johnson still hasn't gone despite an FPN sort of neutralises that argument. Johnson could have made the same assurance as Starmer has today.

    Labour media management has been shocking. Four days to get to this point really is poor.

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,272
    Gone as big as he could in his words.
  • Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    It has been quoted back to labour representatives ad infinitum by the media and near every day
    Then link to it and stop lying
    You have already had a link from a poster and accusation of lying is pathetic
    The link doesn’t satisfy the claim.

    You lied. You’re a liar.
    I would suggest you have gone too far now

    I am not a liar and you are attempting to close me down

    I will leave it to others who are not prejudiced personally on my posts
    Then cite the ludicrous claim you made. You can’t.

    You are a liar.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    edited May 2022

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
    "if he misled Parliament, he must resign" – he is calling for his resignation for lying to parliament, can you not read?
    I was actually more interested in the second part. That statement you've quoted is fine, it's conditional on the outcome.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    So I'm out the loop for five days. All Labour had to do in that five days, to keep those of us wanting rid of Boris happy, was to ensure

    1. that MPs see Labour doing way better in the locals to focus on loser Boris and

    2. make sure the public don't look at politics and think "they are all as bad as each other".

    FFS, Starmer.....
  • So the Mail lied, Big G lied and other PB Tories lied.

    Why am I not surprised when they support a liar in Downing Street.

    I am off to play cricket
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 880
    Ned Starmer
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535

    Well he must be certain he’s not broken any rules

    If the head of DPP can't work out the rules then it is time to question the drafting of the rules.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294
    RobD said:

    .

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
    "if he misled Parliament, he must resign" – he is calling for his resignation for lying to parliament, can you not read?
    I was actually more interested in the second part. That statement you've quoted is fine, it's conditional on the outcome.
    What second part.

    Stop gaslighting.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,871
    This feels similar to Major resigning - call out the other side and force them to move. Starmer says "I stand for honour and integrity" saying if he gets what Johnson gets he will resign with honour.

    So, Johnson has no honour. We know that of course, but its fun to see Starmer go "put up or shut up"
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873

    So the Mail lied, Big G lied and other PB Tories lied.

    Why am I not surprised when they support a liar in Downing Street.

    I am off to play cricket

    I would suggest that going to play cricket is a good decision
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,630
    Well, that was impressive.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,871

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    It has been quoted back to labour representatives ad infinitum by the media and near every day
    Then link to it and stop lying
    You have already had a link from a poster and accusation of lying is pathetic
    The link doesn’t satisfy the claim.

    You lied. You’re a liar.
    I would suggest you have gone too far now

    I am not a liar and you are attempting to close me down

    I will leave it to others who are not prejudiced personally on my posts
    Then cite the ludicrous claim you made. You can’t.

    You are a liar.
    Can you two please stop hurling invective at each other?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    It has been quoted back to labour representatives ad infinitum by the media and near every day
    Then link to it and stop lying
    You have already had a link from a poster and accusation of lying is pathetic
    The link doesn’t satisfy the claim.

    You lied. You’re a liar.
    I would suggest you have gone too far now

    I am not a liar and you are attempting to close me down

    I will leave it to others who are not prejudiced personally on my posts
    He has you bang to rights, Big G.

    You must now resign from PB’s pearl-clutcher-in-chief; and let someone with unquestioned moral probity like Blanche Livermore take on the job.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Well he must be certain he’s not broken any rules

    That's for others to decide. Boris portrayed a character convinced that he hadn't and we know how that turned out.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    RobD said:

    .

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
    "if he misled Parliament, he must resign" – he is calling for his resignation for lying to parliament, can you not read?
    I was actually more interested in the second part. That statement you've quoted is fine, it's conditional on the outcome.
    What second part.

    Stop gaslighting.
    It's in the link, sorry for not quoting it here.

    Since he acknowledges that the ministerial code applies to him, will he now resign?

    So he is calling for the resignation before any investigation as to whether or not he had broken the ministerial code (or got an FPN) had been conducted.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,152
    Meanwhile:

    Lovely bit of polling from Savanta: 41% of Brits have heard about Beergate, 74% Partygate - and 20% claim they know about Hikegate 'a fictional Covid-related scandal relating to Ed Davey'

    https://twitter.com/JamesTapsfield/status/1523680046673809408
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294

    So I'm out the loop for five days. All Labour had to do in that five days, to keep those of us wanting rid of Boris happy, was to ensure

    1. that MPs see Labour doing way better in the locals to focus on loser Boris and

    2. make sure the public don't look at politics and think "they are all as bad as each other".

    FFS, Starmer.....

    You are quite correct.
    Their media management stinks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535

    Well, that was impressive.

    "Nothing in his political life became him like the leaving it."
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400

    Applicant said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    Or like when much of the media and Labour MPs intimidated the Met to re-open the Downing Street investigation.
    When was it "re-opened"? My understanding was that it was simply opened, and then has been ongoing due to the huge amount of evidence of wrong doing in No10.
    It was reopened on receipt of a formal complaint by a Durham councillor who had lost his mother with covid
    You keep repeating that like it means anything.

    Pathetic.
    He’s clearly rattled just like his friends Nadine, Dan and Harry
    I actually had some respect for Big G but the way he had operated over the last week shows him to be nothing more than a partisan stooge.
    I still think Big G definitely wants Boris out asap and probably won’t vote Conservative at next General Election though.

    It was the election fever, bringing out all the partisanship on PB the last three weeks, I think everybody hade a dose of it, to be fair.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,456
    MaxPB said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    That's the Mail though, it wasn't Boris or JRM calling up the chief of police in Durham. It's why @tlg86 is right, just put the word out that he's minded to resign if he gets a FPN in the Guardian or Mirror but don't come out and actually say it. That way there's still pressure on the police to not issue a fine but he's not actually putting it on them directly. This feels like something the investigating officers will react badly to and now may choose to fuck him, and not very gently either.
    You mean that there was forward planning into the party, he was the organiser, and should therefore get a £10k fine like Kay Burley and that singer?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    rcs1000 said:

    Wonder if SKS will take questions?

    Some easy ones surely

    1. You tweeted Boris needed to go just because it was going to be investigated by the Met. irrespective of their findings Why are you waiting?

    2 Why did you lie about Rayner

    3. Why did you eat indoors with others rather than back at the hotel

    4, What work fid you do after drinking beer. Someone present says no work was done or even planned after the Curry and Beer are they liars or you

    5. You stated nowhere was available to eat that was incorrect there were multiple places including your hotel Why did you lie about that

    6. Do you think you retain the trust of the Public a poll today showed twice as many thought you should quit compared to those who thought you should stay Is your position untenable

    Loads of other ones like were there any other instances where you broke local rules?

    I suspect he will have one robotic answer and will not be able to think on his feet so will repeat over and over again.

    I think he should say there is a Poster on PB who says I am a Labour Legend the same as John Smith so I am not going to resign

    There's an awful lot of things in there that you characterise as lying, which might well be simple ignorance.
    Simply applying the same standard that Labour have to Boris.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    Starmer couldn't get off the stage quickly enough
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Best few minutes I have seen from SKS

    If Durham Police agree no rules were broken he probably survives
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294

    Applicant said:

    Intimidation you say

    Like when the Mail and Tory MPs intimidated Durham to reopen this?

    Or like when much of the media and Labour MPs intimidated the Met to re-open the Downing Street investigation.
    When was it "re-opened"? My understanding was that it was simply opened, and then has been ongoing due to the huge amount of evidence of wrong doing in No10.
    It was reopened on receipt of a formal complaint by a Durham councillor who had lost his mother with covid
    You keep repeating that like it means anything.

    Pathetic.
    He’s clearly rattled just like his friends Nadine, Dan and Harry
    I actually had some respect for Big G but the way he had operated over the last week shows him to be nothing more than a partisan stooge.
    I still think Big G definitely wants Boris out asap and probably won’t vote Conservative at next General Election though.

    It was the election fever, bringing out all the partisanship on PB the last three weeks, I think everybody hade a dose of it, to be fair.
    I don’t know, I don’t trust him anymore.
    His smearing over the past week (and now his attempts to pretend the Tories have not been near it) are astonishing to me.

    It’s like seeing Santa Claus caught in flagrante with one of the elves.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,908
    'Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.'

    Starmer’s tweet on January 31. Investigation alone is grounds for resignation. Hoist, say hello to Petard, Own.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
    "if he misled Parliament, he must resign" – he is calling for his resignation for lying to parliament, can you not read?
    I was actually more interested in the second part. That statement you've quoted is fine, it's conditional on the outcome.
    What second part.

    Stop gaslighting.
    It's in the link, sorry for not quoting it here.

    Since he acknowledges that the ministerial code applies to him, will he now resign?

    So he is calling for the resignation before any investigation as to whether or not he had broken the ministerial code (or got an FPN) had been conducted.
    No, he says that Boris has broken the ministerial code.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    It has been quoted back to labour representatives ad infinitum by the media and near every day
    Then link to it and stop lying
    You have already had a link from a poster and accusation of lying is pathetic
    The link doesn’t satisfy the claim.

    You lied. You’re a liar.
    I would suggest you have gone too far now

    I am not a liar and you are attempting to close me down

    I will leave it to others who are not prejudiced personally on my posts
    Then cite the ludicrous claim you made. You can’t.

    You are a liar.
    Can you two please stop hurling invective at each other?
    I am not going to engage with him as he has an issue with me and has become far too personal
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Once a lawyer.....

    Starmer not clear on what he will do if Durham Police don't fine him retrospectively but conclude that he did infringe the rules, as they did with Dominic Cummings.


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1523682874871799811
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    I see Burnham's drifting out a bit on BF.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    "I simply had something to eat while working late in the evening, as any politician would do days before an election, but if the police decide to issue me with a fixed penalty notice, I would, of course, do the right thing and step down.
    This matters. It matters because the British public deserve politicians who think the rules apply to them..."


    Called it earlier today - the sensible and principled response.
    I'm not a massive Starmer fan, but credit to him.
  • Oh so we can just make up lies about politicians now here and then when we get called out we should just let it slide.

    Not a chance
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    All of the "forensic" questions that Starmer put to the PM can be thrown back at him. For example: "When did he first become aware that any of his staff had concerns about the party?"
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    rcs1000 said:

    Am I the only one who finds this whole story incredibly boring?

    I mean, if it had been Corbyn, at least he'd have been having the curry with Hezbollah, plotting the destruction of Israel. And if it had been Johnson, then there would probably have been karaoke, strippers and whiff-waff...

    But Starmer? A bloody chicken korma with a can of weak lager.

    Does the man have no shame?

    TBH, I was actually very disappointed how crap the #10 parties seemed to be. Breaking a childs swing and then falling asleep on the sofa, is hardly hookers and blow....the Christmas zoom quiz in particular looked awful. Where was the shagging on the photocopier!
    It was the electorate taking one for England.
  • Lovely weather we’re batting first
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited May 2022

    So the Mail lied, Big G lied and other PB Tories lied.

    Why am I not surprised when they support a liar in Downing Street.

    I am off to play cricket

    A good idea, before you embarrass yourself any further.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 880

    Once a lawyer.....

    Starmer not clear on what he will do if Durham Police don't fine him retrospectively but conclude that he did infringe the rules, as they did with Dominic Cummings.


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1523682874871799811

    It's a trickier point, I think, and I can understand why he doesn't want to get into the weeds of all the permutations of what he might or might not do.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,871

    Best few minutes I have seen from SKS

    If Durham Police agree no rules were broken he probably survives

    By rules you mean laws. And the key word is "laws". Not guidelines. Not guesswork. Not that there was a memo. Not that they "lied" about Rayner's presence at what they considered to be a legal event. Just the law.

    The problem with the Mail/Tory HQ case is that it doesn't quote the laws. It thrashed around for a week trying to find an angle. So now he's done "put up or shut up" and frankly I think he can now slam Johnson hard.

    "If I get a FPN I will quit because I have honour and principles. Why has the Prime Minister not displayed any honour and principles and done what I will do?"

    Tories haven't thought this one through. Pressure back onto Johnson.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294

    All of the "forensic" questions that Starmer put to the PM can be thrown back at him. For example: "When did he first become aware that any of his staff had concerns about the party?"

    “When it was raised by Tory friendly journalists in the Mail and the Sun”.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645

    Oh so we can just make up lies about politicians now here and then when we get called out we should just let it slide.

    Not a chance

    Like you with Drakeford has never been a Corbtnite
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    Applicant said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Wonder if SKS will take questions?

    Some easy ones surely

    1. You tweeted Boris needed to go just because it was going to be investigated by the Met. irrespective of their findings Why are you waiting?

    2 Why did you lie about Rayner

    3. Why did you eat indoors with others rather than back at the hotel

    4, What work fid you do after drinking beer. Someone present says no work was done or even planned after the Curry and Beer are they liars or you

    5. You stated nowhere was available to eat that was incorrect there were multiple places including your hotel Why did you lie about that

    6. Do you think you retain the trust of the Public a poll today showed twice as many thought you should quit compared to those who thought you should stay Is your position untenable

    Loads of other ones like were there any other instances where you broke local rules?

    I suspect he will have one robotic answer and will not be able to think on his feet so will repeat over and over again.

    I think he should say there is a Poster on PB who says I am a Labour Legend the same as John Smith so I am not going to resign

    There's an awful lot of things in there that you characterise as lying, which might well be simple ignorance.
    Simply applying the same standard that Labour have to Boris.
    I was referring to - for example - the contention that he knew that the hotel would be serving food.

    If you had the choice between (a) a definite curry or (b) possible hotel food, which would you choose?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    Breaking - Rayner says she will quit too. "We have a Prime Minister who has been found to have broken the rules, lied about it and then been fined. If I were issued with a fine, I would do the decent thing and step down."
    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1523684089135796226
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Leon said:

    'Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.'

    Starmer’s tweet on January 31. Investigation alone is grounds for resignation. Hoist, say hello to Petard, Own.

    No, CHB and Gardenwalker say you're lying and gaslighting.
  • Oh so we can just make up lies about politicians now here and then when we get called out we should just let it slide.

    Not a chance

    Like you with Drakeford has never been a Corbtnite
    I never said that.

    I said he regretted supporting Corbyn. Remember due to Corbyn Drakeford lost a load of MPs
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pensfold said:

    Starmer said that Boris should resign just for being investigated. Now Starmer is being investigated he should resign.

    No he did not. Cite the claim
    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1488176626642923521?lang=en

    “Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.”
    Yea that’s resign for lying, which he did in the HoC
    He made a similar statement before the Gray report even came out.
    Link
    This is the bit from Hansard

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2022-01-26b.994.5

    Calling for him to resign even when the investigation is underway.
    "if he misled Parliament, he must resign" – he is calling for his resignation for lying to parliament, can you not read?
    I was actually more interested in the second part. That statement you've quoted is fine, it's conditional on the outcome.
    What second part.

    Stop gaslighting.
    It's in the link, sorry for not quoting it here.

    Since he acknowledges that the ministerial code applies to him, will he now resign?

    So he is calling for the resignation before any investigation as to whether or not he had broken the ministerial code (or got an FPN) had been conducted.
    No, he says that Boris has broken the ministerial code.
    Is it for him to make that determination? He was calling for resignation the day after the Met announced they would be investigating. The mere fact of an investigation does not prove guilt.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400

    Meanwhile:

    Lovely bit of polling from Savanta: 41% of Brits have heard about Beergate, 74% Partygate - and 20% claim they know about Hikegate 'a fictional Covid-related scandal relating to Ed Davey'

    https://twitter.com/JamesTapsfield/status/1523680046673809408

    Libdems hiking here!

    Up to the walls, and right bloody through them.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    When is Angela Rayner making a statement?
  • Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    'Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.'

    Starmer’s tweet on January 31. Investigation alone is grounds for resignation. Hoist, say hello to Petard, Own.

    No, CHB and Gardenwalker say you're lying and gaslighting.
    Yes and I stand by that. That quote doesn’t mean anything. He’s clearly referring again to Johnson’s comments in the HoC.

    I’m batting next, have a nice afternoon all
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking - Rayner says she will quit too. "We have a Prime Minister who has been found to have broken the rules, lied about it and then been fined. If I were issued with a fine, I would do the decent thing and step down."
    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1523684089135796226

    As I have said all along
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,757
    Leon said:

    'Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.'

    Starmer’s tweet on January 31. Investigation alone is grounds for resignation. Hoist, say hello to Petard, Own.

    Yep tricky one that. Only defence is I'm definitely not guilty, but we all know you are. Personally I would struggle to make that argument convincingly. His tweet was far too definite.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Wonder if SKS will take questions?

    Some easy ones surely

    1. You tweeted Boris needed to go just because it was going to be investigated by the Met. irrespective of their findings Why are you waiting?

    2 Why did you lie about Rayner

    3. Why did you eat indoors with others rather than back at the hotel

    4, What work fid you do after drinking beer. Someone present says no work was done or even planned after the Curry and Beer are they liars or you

    5. You stated nowhere was available to eat that was incorrect there were multiple places including your hotel Why did you lie about that

    6. Do you think you retain the trust of the Public a poll today showed twice as many thought you should quit compared to those who thought you should stay Is your position untenable

    Loads of other ones like were there any other instances where you broke local rules?

    I suspect he will have one robotic answer and will not be able to think on his feet so will repeat over and over again.

    I think he should say there is a Poster on PB who says I am a Labour Legend the same as John Smith so I am not going to resign

    There's an awful lot of things in there that you characterise as lying, which might well be simple ignorance.
    Simply applying the same standard that Labour have to Boris.
    I was referring to - for example - the contention that he knew that the hotel would be serving food.

    If you had the choice between (a) a definite curry or (b) possible hotel food, which would you choose?
    I'd have taken the curry back to my hotel.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 880

    Best few minutes I have seen from SKS

    If Durham Police agree no rules were broken he probably survives


    The problem with the Mail/Tory HQ case is that it doesn't quote the laws. It thrashed around for a week trying to find an angle. So now he's done "put up or shut up" and frankly I think he can now slam Johnson hard.
    On the Prime Minister's podcast, they play a snippet from recordings of (available) prime ministers. Major's is "put up or shut up".

    If Starmer makes it, these could be his.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,294

    Meanwhile:

    Lovely bit of polling from Savanta: 41% of Brits have heard about Beergate, 74% Partygate - and 20% claim they know about Hikegate 'a fictional Covid-related scandal relating to Ed Davey'

    https://twitter.com/JamesTapsfield/status/1523680046673809408

    Libdems hiking here!

    Up to the walls, and right bloody through them.
    One of serious proposals for Ed Davey is that he does all TV appearances wearing a hiking jacket.

    He needs a bloody profile - anything!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,661

    Harriet Harman waving a Keir is innocent flag!!

    He is an honest man.


    Save the massa-man!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited May 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Wonder if SKS will take questions?

    Some easy ones surely

    1. You tweeted Boris needed to go just because it was going to be investigated by the Met. irrespective of their findings Why are you waiting?

    2 Why did you lie about Rayner

    3. Why did you eat indoors with others rather than back at the hotel

    4, What work fid you do after drinking beer. Someone present says no work was done or even planned after the Curry and Beer are they liars or you

    5. You stated nowhere was available to eat that was incorrect there were multiple places including your hotel Why did you lie about that

    6. Do you think you retain the trust of the Public a poll today showed twice as many thought you should quit compared to those who thought you should stay Is your position untenable

    Loads of other ones like were there any other instances where you broke local rules?

    I suspect he will have one robotic answer and will not be able to think on his feet so will repeat over and over again.

    I think he should say there is a Poster on PB who says I am a Labour Legend the same as John Smith so I am not going to resign

    There's an awful lot of things in there that you characterise as lying, which might well be simple ignorance.
    Simply applying the same standard that Labour have to Boris.
    I was referring to - for example - the contention that he knew that the hotel would be serving food.

    If you had the choice between (a) a definite curry or (b) possible hotel food, which would you choose?
    Not sure that argument stands up. Is there no Deliveroo in Durham that would have delivered to you outside the hotel if not food available?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    'Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.'

    Starmer’s tweet on January 31. Investigation alone is grounds for resignation. Hoist, say hello to Petard, Own.

    No, CHB and Gardenwalker say you're lying and gaslighting.
    Yes and I stand by that. That quote doesn’t mean anything. He’s clearly referring again to Johnson’s comments in the HoC.

    I’m batting next, have a nice afternoon all
    Ah, so his words "clearly" mean something different to what they say?
This discussion has been closed.