One user is positively orgasmic over Starmer, he's wetting his pants right now
I know you are very focused on "bullying" as an issue.
You really should look at the beam in your own eye first.
That kind of demeaning language denigrates and undermines an individual (we all know who it is) and is a classic example of the the type of behaviour that would weigh heavily in "creating a hostile environment" in a legal situation
Well done Horse!
You flagged a post that was mildly critical of your behaviour.
That's not proof that the Tweet was sent from the event; that it was him who sent it; that the event as a whole wasn't tainted even if he was working (the "Rishi" scenario).
Not saying you are wrong, just that you haven't proved it
This is very much at the heart of the issue and the source was an attendee
The source who was present is willing to help police with their inquiries. Crucially, the source said Starmer did not go back to work after eating his curry: “It has been claimed that Starmer worked during the curry and then after the curry. None of those two things happened. He did not go back to work to the best of my knowledge.”
They also accused some attendees, including Foy and her staff, of not working at all and only being there to socialise.
“They were just there drinking,” said the source. “This made some people feel uncomfortable because they knew there was a risk we could be accused of breaking the rules.
“Mary Foy and her staff were not working and I have not got a problem telling that to the police. They were just getting pissed. They were just there for a jolly. It’s not something that I am prepared to defend. They just thought it was pretty cool to hang out with the leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party. I wouldn’t say they were hammered but they were definitely a little bit tipsy by the end.”
The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”
To the best of my knowledge ! Look out for the Mirror and Guardian over the next few days . If they don’t produce something helpful for Starmer then I’d see that as curtains for him , if they do he might survive .
My guess is that "to the best of my knowledge" was added by a Mail lawyer!
It's word against word, effectively, and they just want to cover themselves
That's not proof that the Tweet was sent from the event; that it was him who sent it; that the event as a whole wasn't tainted even if he was working (the "Rishi" scenario).
Not saying you are wrong, just that you haven't proved it
This is very much at the heart of the issue and the source was an attendee
The source who was present is willing to help police with their inquiries. Crucially, the source said Starmer did not go back to work after eating his curry: “It has been claimed that Starmer worked during the curry and then after the curry. None of those two things happened. He did not go back to work to the best of my knowledge.”
They also accused some attendees, including Foy and her staff, of not working at all and only being there to socialise.
“They were just there drinking,” said the source. “This made some people feel uncomfortable because they knew there was a risk we could be accused of breaking the rules.
“Mary Foy and her staff were not working and I have not got a problem telling that to the police. They were just getting pissed. They were just there for a jolly. It’s not something that I am prepared to defend. They just thought it was pretty cool to hang out with the leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party. I wouldn’t say they were hammered but they were definitely a little bit tipsy by the end.”
The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”
To the best of my knowledge ! Look out for the Mirror and Guardian over the next few days . If they don’t produce something helpful for Starmer then I’d see that as curtains for him , if they do he might survive .
I really think it is just stupid that Starmer may have to go over his own unwise words and him being a lawyer and previous head of the CPS
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Must be hard to keep track of your lines to take today, Vlad.
Yeah right Phillip Thompson.
See? Two can play the game.
The next Labour leader must and will be a woman. Sorry that this is causing such confusion for the right wing gammons.
Have a nice day folks.
Off out to walk around Hook Heath. I guess I could meet up with tlg86 some time and then that really will make you 'you're a troll' tories look even more stupid and dumbass than you already are (if that's poss.)
@PBModerator has said it's against the rules to doxx people.
Hoist with your own petard situation I'd have thought if you want to call vlad
Only if he genuinely is Vlad though.
One is a joke, a turn of phrase, the other is doxxing with full name.
Oh how we laughed and why should they be a "he"
Malcolm, do you think Alba still have a future after these elections? Not a single councillor in the whole of Scotland and some truly embarrassing figures in individual constituencies. It seems as if the SNP have drilled loyalty into their membership too well for a break off to thrive.
I think they're doomed. And the election results are not much to do with the membership, but more the voters. Most voters aren't members, and the voters took one look at Alba and went "nah mate". It's over for Salmond. Not with a bang but with a whimper.
That was very much my view but @malcolmg has been a strong supporter and I wondered if he could give us any insight from the inside. Guilty or not guilty the hatchet job done on Salmond has worked a treat for Nicola.
Yeah, I'd like to hear Malky's view on it too. It never ceases to strike me how effective Sturgeon is. I've said in the past that I admire her. A measure of her success is the way the Conservatives were over the moon with the 2017 results and now in 2022 Labour also very pleased at wresting 2nd place back off them. When your opponents are pleased with second, it says a lot.
Salmond is just the latest in a long line of politicians who've tried to take her down and ended up in a crumpled heap instead. Whether you like her or not, her electoral record is astonishing.
EDIT Too slow, Malky's thoughts now apparent.
Apologies if I’ve said similar before, but what is most astonishing about Salmond’s whimper is that there was a way back for him, with voters at least. If he’d shown a hint of even minimal contrition for his admitted behaviour, better concealed his desire to destroy Sturgeon, not allied himself with the likes of D.Davis, the Speccy & the Tele in aid of that desire and not surrounded himself with some of the flakiest people in the Indy movement, Salmond might have retained some elder statesman credibility, even some small electoral relevance. ‘Why won’t the crooked, scummy SNP work with us’ is one of the most pitiful electoral strategies going.
Classic mistake of the arrogant. Assume you have a much larger personal following than you do, refuse any hint of contrition or acceptance because you believe it makes you look weak, and regard any criticism as a vicious attack.
Yes, there was his fury at the trial and all that, but as your last line indicates, his plan following that did not exactly build on a solid foundation.
One user is positively orgasmic over Starmer, he's wetting his pants right now
I know you are very focused on "bullying" as an issue.
You really should look at the beam in your own eye first.
That kind of demeaning language denigrates and undermines an individual (we all know who it is) and is a classic example of the the type of behaviour that would weigh heavily in "creating a hostile environment" in a legal situation
Well done Horse!
You flagged a post that was mildly critical of your behaviour.
Is it possible Starmer went back to work and some other people didn’t .
In which case what happens then .
I don't think that's relevant. AFAIK Durham Police have to determine two things: was the event illegal and did Starmer participate? This clearly was a work event and the schedule leaked by the Mail yesterday actually corroborates that. It would be illegal if there was a significant degree of apparently unscheduled socialisation. The case for an event that was actually promoted as "Birthday Party!" seems easier to make.
We don't know what evidence Durham Police are looking at, nor how they are going to call it. Going on what's known in the public domain it doesn't look particularly obvious to me, but I take a fairly relaxed view on all of these events/parties.
There is a potential hypocrisy argument to make against Starmer but (a) hypocrisy isn't illegal; (b) while Johnson refuses to resign over his actual FPN(s) it doesn't really land on Starmer. It would be different if Starmer is served with an FPN and also refuses to resign. I don't think that will happen because I think it more likely he won't get an FPN and he will resign anyway if he does.
The issue, as I see it, isn't whether it was "a work event" but whether it was "reasonably necessary for work".
We know that there were other sources of food available, so the teams could have returned to their hotels and eaten separately.
For it to be "reasonably necessary" in my view then they would have needed to return to work after dinner - i.e. was a break from work vs. something that was tagged on at the end of the work day to say thank you to the troops.
Indeed. Again with the caveat Durham Police will make the call not us, I don't think it matters that alternative food supplies were available, as long as you can make a semi-convincing argument that it was a working dinner, which may be implied by yesterday's leaked schedule
That's not proof that the Tweet was sent from the event; that it was him who sent it; that the event as a whole wasn't tainted even if he was working (the "Rishi" scenario).
Not saying you are wrong, just that you haven't proved it
This is very much at the heart of the issue and the source was an attendee
The source who was present is willing to help police with their inquiries. Crucially, the source said Starmer did not go back to work after eating his curry: “It has been claimed that Starmer worked during the curry and then after the curry. None of those two things happened. He did not go back to work to the best of my knowledge.”
They also accused some attendees, including Foy and her staff, of not working at all and only being there to socialise.
“They were just there drinking,” said the source. “This made some people feel uncomfortable because they knew there was a risk we could be accused of breaking the rules.
“Mary Foy and her staff were not working and I have not got a problem telling that to the police. They were just getting pissed. They were just there for a jolly. It’s not something that I am prepared to defend. They just thought it was pretty cool to hang out with the leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party. I wouldn’t say they were hammered but they were definitely a little bit tipsy by the end.”
The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”
To the best of my knowledge ! Look out for the Mirror and Guardian over the next few days . If they don’t produce something helpful for Starmer then I’d see that as curtains for him , if they do he might survive .
I really think it is just stupid that Starmer may have to go over his own unwise words and him being a lawyer and previous head of the CPS
You could not make this up
It might be stupid but I’m afraid he will have to go .
Starmers main appeal is being not Johnson . As in his brand relies on being dull but sincere and honest . If that’s trashed then there’s nowhere to hide .
One user is positively orgasmic over Starmer, he's wetting his pants right now
I know you are very focused on "bullying" as an issue.
You really should look at the beam in your own eye first.
That kind of demeaning language denigrates and undermines an individual (we all know who it is) and is a classic example of the the type of behaviour that would weigh heavily in "creating a hostile environment" in a legal situation
Well done Horse!
You flagged a post that was mildly critical of your behaviour.
One user is positively orgasmic over Starmer, he's wetting his pants right now
On the other hand your posts look a lot like those pathetic Tories defending Boris being "ambushed by cake". How the roles have reversed.
The issue is Starmer having no political judgement, not waiting until the penalties were handed out to call for a resignation and, IMO, getting involved with it in the first instance. Again and again Starmer has not said what he would do differently to the Tories so he's had to go on fluff like this and now it's backfired.
Tbh, I think Starmer will brazen it out if he gets a FPN and the Tories will soft pedal because keeping him in place with that benefits them as it neutralises the biggest story of the day for them.
I'd have to abstain from voting or vote Lib Dem if Starmer stays after being fined.
I already said, if Starmer gets fined he must go. I trust the Police to do the right thing, I do not trust the Tories here to be objective. I am sure the feeling very much mutual.
Hope you are keeping well Max
To me it's plainly obvious that Starmer broke the rules just as the Tories did and chances are he did it plenty of times and this is probably the event we've heard about.
The reason I say that is because the rules were stupid and breaking them was easy to do, I did plenty of times and I'm sure you did too. The difference is that neither of us voted for the rules and didn't make a big song and dance over sticking to them either (well I didn't).
In an ideal scenario Keir resigns and makes Boris' position as PM untenable and forces the Tory MPs to remove him, after the poor set of local election results the appetite to keep him on has diminished significantly.
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Must be hard to keep track of your lines to take today, Vlad.
Yeah right Phillip Thompson.
See? Two can play the game.
The next Labour leader must and will be a woman. Sorry that this is causing such confusion for the right wing gammons.
Have a nice day folks.
Off out to walk around Hook Heath. I guess I could meet up with tlg86 some time and then that really will make you 'you're a troll' tories look even more stupid and dumbass than you already are (if that's poss.)
@PBModerator has said it's against the rules to doxx people.
Hoist with your own petard situation I'd have thought if you want to call vlad
Only if he genuinely is Vlad though.
One is a joke, a turn of phrase, the other is doxxing with full name.
Oh how we laughed and why should they be a "he"
Malcolm, do you think Alba still have a future after these elections? Not a single councillor in the whole of Scotland and some truly embarrassing figures in individual constituencies. It seems as if the SNP have drilled loyalty into their membership too well for a break off to thrive.
Looks a forlorn hope David. Looks like it will need to be Labour that cleanse the SNP ( the sheeple seem to forgive every useless policy , disaster , etc). If only they had a backbone and some independent thinking rather than just London clones. At some point someone with brains will get them out of just being patsies taking orders. They need to swing at least some way to independence , full fiscal autonomy or they will get nowhere. SNP are useless till Sturgeon and her clique of crooks, rogues and self ider's are history. She must fall soon , no-one can keep all that manure hidden forever. Meanwhile Scotland burns, gets ever more like a basket case that deserves to be just a colony.
Surely if you are a nationalist and dislike Sturgeon you already have a successful party to vote for - the Scottish Greens. I'm not a nat but recognise the clear electoral mandate last year for a 2nd referendum. Dodgy Alex and his cult weren't needed to deliver that, so why care that they have largely died out?
The Scottish Greens are ridiculously Woke, especially on things like Trans - they are even Wokier than the SNP (which is going some)
I don't think @malcolmg is particularly Woke, so I see his dilemma. Alba promised to be the non-Woke Nats, but they've now evanesced
We all take your perspective on Woke u Der advisement.
In the real world there are two established nationalist parties and there wasn't room for a third.
But both indy parties are social democratic leftwing parties
What about economic and cultural conservatives who also like indy? What should they do? Grin and bear it forever?
It is a problem for the cause
What is conservative about breaking up the union? There are no right wing nat parties because it's not a right wing position.
Then again, with right wing conservatives now arguing for the merits of trade barriers and costly red tape anything is possible...
What a cringingly stupid remark
I think he's got a point. A conservative position is to persist and preserve things that are not obviously broken. The state of the union is an interesting one because there are arguments both ways but living in Scotland I can tell you that, despite your view of the house colours in Wick, it's not all dreary and horrible. It works, to some extent. So a natural conservative position is, don't overthrow this, it's working. So what is the conservative argument for independence? I can come up with a couple of weakish ones, but they're not altogether convincing.
Well I suppose if you were very conservative you could make the case that the Union as a whole had always been a mistake, and so opposing the Act of Union as a radical innovation.
But it's a mistake to identify the right-wing as always being small 'c' conservatives. The Right can be very radical when they want to. And in general the Right tend to make the argument of drawing a tighter circle of empathy and leaving more people on the outside, so it goes quite naturally with nationalism. I find it very easy to see the right-wing case for Scottish independence.
It's the left-wing argument for Scottish independence that I find hard to understand. What part of "Workers of the World Unite" involves creating a new border on the island of Britain?
If Scots and English can't cooperate then what chance for cooperating across greater cultural differences?
Quite. Nationalism is generally a rightwing thing (see Ireland, where some of the separatists flirted with Fascism). Scotland is actually quite unusual in that its Nationalism is now prismed through leftwing parties.
Scot Nattery wasn't always like this. The SNP were once called "the Tartan Tories" for a reason
It was a clever strategic move by the SNP to shift to the left as part of a strategy to create as much difference with England as possible. They will receive votes from many Scottish Nationalists despite the left-wing politics, and can then use the left-wing politics to attract voters who would otherwise be suspicious of nationalism.
As soon as the referendum is won the left-wing politics will be dropped. It will then be "in the national interest".
On the final point - the voters can then vote for whomsoever they want after independence. And get the politics they want. Which is the whole point.
It will be the pressure of events that will drive politics to the right. The desperate need to balance the budget. The imperative to compete economically with England. Politicians turning to Nationalistic rhetoric to compensate for disappointed dreams.
That's pretty much exactly what happened in Ireland, which goes some way to explain the shambles there with the HSE, and politics dominated for a century by two centre-right parties, with only a small Labour Party.
Scottish independence would be a massive, epochal defeat for left-wing politics on the island of Britain.
You mean that it's not defeated already? Come off it, it's already dead, except in Scotland and Wales, on the electoral evidence. Even Labour in Scotland is markedly to the right of the SNP, never mind the SGs.
Edit: OK, slight exaggeration in the heat of the moment. But the basic point stands. Labour is, as always, asking the Scots to suck it up because they are so incompetent, or people won't vote for them, in the UK as a whole.
It's a fundamental tenet of left-wing politics that the future can be better than the past. Left-wing politics is struggling in most places at the moment, but of course I believe that the arguments can be made again, better in the future, with better leaders, and past defeats reversed.
If I didn't believe that I'd have to give up and find refuge in some petty nationalism instead...
It's entirely possible to be in favour of leftwing or centrist politics as well as independence for one's polity. That is how the Labour Party began - twins with the SNP (strictly, NPS).
Individual people are capable of holding the two ideas in their head at the same time, but they are fundamentally in conflict.
Left-wing politics is essentially about unity, and nationalism is essentially about division.
Now it's a bit more complicated than that, there are times when nationalism encourages unity on a small scale, but to a first-order approximation I think it's right.
You can see by the BBC News how uncomfortable this situation is for Labour but equally it’s not easy for the Tories to make too much capital over this .
Just realised we haven’t heard from SAGE or iSAGE for months. Thank fuck. Wankers
That’s my Take of the Day from the confident position of my Kusadasi swimming pool
I think SAGE has been disbanded by the government. Indy Sage are still kicking about suggesting we all wear masks all the time and that the UK is a plague island etc... but ultimately it's the wittering of bitter remainers and now that COVID is over no one listens to them.
Situation in Northern Ireland sounds dire. DUP doubling down.
There seems little incentive for the sides to not blow up the working arrangements whenever the feel like it. At least that is figurative blowing up now, but it is still depressing.
I don't know if it has been posted down thread but rumours that Russia has lost control of (abandoned?) Snake Island. Whether Ukraine has got it is another matter.
On a related point I did ask the question yesterday as to whether we can do something about the blockade on Odessa? It's not just an economic disaster for Ukraine but a potential food crisis for the world. What would be the problem with Nato ships escorting commercial vessels out of the area?
Is it possible Starmer went back to work and some other people didn’t .
In which case what happens then .
I don't think that's relevant. AFAIK Durham Police have to determine two things: was the event illegal and did Starmer participate? This clearly was a work event and the schedule leaked by the Mail yesterday actually corroborates that. It would be illegal if there was a significant degree of apparently unscheduled socialisation. The case for an event that was actually promoted as "Birthday Party!" seems easier to make.
We don't know what evidence Durham Police are looking at, nor how they are going to call it. Going on what's known in the public domain it doesn't look particularly obvious to me, but I take a fairly relaxed view on all of these events/parties.
There is a potential hypocrisy argument to make against Starmer but (a) hypocrisy isn't illegal; (b) while Johnson refuses to resign over his actual FPN(s) it doesn't really land on Starmer. It would be different if Starmer is served with an FPN and also refuses to resign. I don't think that will happen because I think it more likely he won't get an FPN and he will resign anyway if he does.
The issue, as I see it, isn't whether it was "a work event" but whether it was "reasonably necessary for work".
We know that there were other sources of food available, so the teams could have returned to their hotels and eaten separately.
For it to be "reasonably necessary" in my view then they would have needed to return to work after dinner - i.e. was a break from work vs. something that was tagged on at the end of the work day to say thank you to the troops.
Indeed. Again with the caveat Durham Police will make the call not us, I don't think it matters that alternative food supplies were available, as long as you can make a semi-convincing argument that it was a working dinner, which may be implied by yesterday's leaked schedule
I think it's binary: If Durham Police serve Starmer with a FPN he goes; if they don't he doesn't.
That's not proof that the Tweet was sent from the event; that it was him who sent it; that the event as a whole wasn't tainted even if he was working (the "Rishi" scenario).
Not saying you are wrong, just that you haven't proved it
This is very much at the heart of the issue and the source was an attendee
The source who was present is willing to help police with their inquiries. Crucially, the source said Starmer did not go back to work after eating his curry: “It has been claimed that Starmer worked during the curry and then after the curry. None of those two things happened. He did not go back to work to the best of my knowledge.”
They also accused some attendees, including Foy and her staff, of not working at all and only being there to socialise.
“They were just there drinking,” said the source. “This made some people feel uncomfortable because they knew there was a risk we could be accused of breaking the rules.
“Mary Foy and her staff were not working and I have not got a problem telling that to the police. They were just getting pissed. They were just there for a jolly. It’s not something that I am prepared to defend. They just thought it was pretty cool to hang out with the leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party. I wouldn’t say they were hammered but they were definitely a little bit tipsy by the end.”
The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”
To the best of my knowledge ! Look out for the Mirror and Guardian over the next few days . If they don’t produce something helpful for Starmer then I’d see that as curtains for him , if they do he might survive .
I really think it is just stupid that Starmer may have to go over his own unwise words and him being a lawyer and previous head of the CPS
You could not make this up
On the 10:13pm tweet:
a) You can automate the time these posts get sent out with apps like tweetdeck
b) I doubt Starmer sends his own tweets anyway.
As to the day's work - I think it was mainly in the Hull area. That was a good day's work then - the council has just fallen to Liberal Dems.
Sending a tweet while he was eating a curry hardly amounts to continuing to work
Anyway that can easily be proven by the record of when he returned to his hotel, which by the way was serving food upto 9.00pm and room service after. Furthermore eating establishments were open despite Starmer saying there were not
1. Have you never eaten and worked at the same time? I do that several times most weeks. 2. Tweeting can be work. Many organisations from charities to companies to public sector organisations literally pay people tweet.
Bearing in mind it's the Labour Party Twitter account, tweeting about campaigning, sent whilst the memo says they were at work/eating, you'd have to have conclusive proof it wasn't work and that probably doesn't exist.
I think this really confirms that they were working.
Along with the value of the food and beer, seems like a bog-standard working dinner to me.
The issue here is that attendees are refuting the idea it was work
Are they? The guy quoted by the ST says "to the best of my knowledge" which suggests he wasn't actually there and doesn't know. Then you read who he is and there is no way he would be there. At a Tory campaign event perhaps but not Labour.
I don't know if it has been posted down thread but rumours that Russia has lost control of (abandoned?) Snake Island. Whether Ukraine has got it is another matter.
On a related point I did ask the question yesterday as to whether we can do something about the blockade on Odessa? It's not just an economic disaster for Ukraine but a potential food crisis for the world. What would be the problem with Nato ships escorting commercial vessels out of the area?
Haven't the Turks closed the Bosphorus to military traffic?
Just realised we haven’t heard from SAGE or iSAGE for months. Thank fuck. Wankers
That’s my Take of the Day from the confident position of my Kusadasi swimming pool
I think SAGE has been disbanded by the government. Indy Sage are still kicking about suggesting we all wear masks all the time and that the UK is a plague island etc... but ultimately it's the wittering of bitter remainers and now that COVID is over no one listens to them.
We could always ask them to look into Sweden's low excess deaths?
That's not proof that the Tweet was sent from the event; that it was him who sent it; that the event as a whole wasn't tainted even if he was working (the "Rishi" scenario).
Not saying you are wrong, just that you haven't proved it
This is very much at the heart of the issue and the source was an attendee
The source who was present is willing to help police with their inquiries. Crucially, the source said Starmer did not go back to work after eating his curry: “It has been claimed that Starmer worked during the curry and then after the curry. None of those two things happened. He did not go back to work to the best of my knowledge.”
They also accused some attendees, including Foy and her staff, of not working at all and only being there to socialise.
“They were just there drinking,” said the source. “This made some people feel uncomfortable because they knew there was a risk we could be accused of breaking the rules.
“Mary Foy and her staff were not working and I have not got a problem telling that to the police. They were just getting pissed. They were just there for a jolly. It’s not something that I am prepared to defend. They just thought it was pretty cool to hang out with the leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party. I wouldn’t say they were hammered but they were definitely a little bit tipsy by the end.”
The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”
To the best of my knowledge ! Look out for the Mirror and Guardian over the next few days . If they don’t produce something helpful for Starmer then I’d see that as curtains for him , if they do he might survive .
I really think it is just stupid that Starmer may have to go over his own unwise words and him being a lawyer and previous head of the CPS
You could not make this up
On the 10:13pm tweet:
a) You can automate the time these posts get sent out with apps like tweetdeck
b) I doubt Starmer sends his own tweets anyway.
As to the day's work - I think it was mainly in the Hull area. That was a good day's work then - the council has just fallen to Liberal Dems.
You'd need very strong evidence that he didn't send the Tweet or that one of his own team there didn't - which the Durham Police may have.
I'm just saying, there does seem to be some evidence of work going on post the meal.
Is it possible Starmer went back to work and some other people didn’t .
In which case what happens then .
I don't think that's relevant. AFAIK Durham Police have to determine two things: was the event illegal and did Starmer participate? This clearly was a work event and the schedule leaked by the Mail yesterday actually corroborates that. It would be illegal if there was a significant degree of apparently unscheduled socialisation. The case for an event that was actually promoted as "Birthday Party!" seems easier to make.
We don't know what evidence Durham Police are looking at, nor how they are going to call it. Going on what's known in the public domain it doesn't look particularly obvious to me, but I take a fairly relaxed view on all of these events/parties.
There is a potential hypocrisy argument to make against Starmer but (a) hypocrisy isn't illegal; (b) while Johnson refuses to resign over his actual FPN(s) it doesn't really land on Starmer. It would be different if Starmer is served with an FPN and also refuses to resign. I don't think that will happen because I think it more likely he won't get an FPN and he will resign anyway if he does.
The issue, as I see it, isn't whether it was "a work event" but whether it was "reasonably necessary for work".
We know that there were other sources of food available, so the teams could have returned to their hotels and eaten separately.
For it to be "reasonably necessary" in my view then they would have needed to return to work after dinner - i.e. was a break from work vs. something that was tagged on at the end of the work day to say thank you to the troops.
Reasonably Necessary was the guidelines. Relevant question is what the legal regulations said - Tories keep quoting the wrong thing. "should not" doesn't matter as can't be enforced unless is also a "must not" in the regulations.
55% want referendum within 5 years, and the actual yes: no is 49/51 - a dead heat at present within MOE.
Problem is there still no significant change in public opinion or circumstance that Sturgeon can bite down on as justification for running another ref. Otherwise, the timing just feels arbitrary.
The next development will be the publication (or not) of the legal advice by 10 June. I'm curious as to whether that has implications for SG work on a referendum. I presume not, as referendums are not legally binding and so preparatory work is not unlawful as result?
If Johnson says no then I can't see any way for things to progress. And the closer we come to a Labour government at Westminster....
Sending a tweet while he was eating a curry hardly amounts to continuing to work
Anyway that can easily be proven by the record of when he returned to his hotel, which by the way was serving food upto 9.00pm and room service after. Furthermore eating establishments were open despite Starmer saying there were not
1. Have you never eaten and worked at the same time? I do that several times most weeks. 2. Tweeting can be work. Many organisations from charities to companies to public sector organisations literally pay people tweet.
Bearing in mind it's the Labour Party Twitter account, tweeting about campaigning, sent whilst the memo says they were at work/eating, you'd have to have conclusive proof it wasn't work and that probably doesn't exist.
I think this really confirms that they were working.
Along with the value of the food and beer, seems like a bog-standard working dinner to me.
The issue here is that attendees are refuting the idea it was work
Are they? The guy quoted by the ST says "to the best of my knowledge" which suggests he wasn't actually there and doesn't know. Then you read who he is and there is no way he would be there. At a Tory campaign event perhaps but not Labour.
Mary Foye categorically denies the accusation.
Unless the person in question has evidence to back up their "to the best of my knowledge" (if they do hand it over to the Police) and Starmer is finished.
For me this is two things: if Starmer is innocent, stay. If he is fined, he must go and there is simply no question in my mind about that.
You can see by the BBC News how uncomfortable this situation is for Labour but equally it’s not easy for the Tories to make too much capital over this .
Yes, but it helps the Tories to soft pedal, even if he gets a FPN. CCHQ will hope he gets one and then doesn't resign, that's their ideal outcome. The opposition leader as badly damaged as the PM limping on to 2024.
You can see by the BBC News how uncomfortable this situation is for Labour but equally it’s not easy for the Tories to make too much capital over this .
Yes, but it helps the Tories to soft pedal, even if he gets a FPN. CCHQ will hope he gets one and then doesn't resign, that's their ideal outcome. The opposition leader as badly damaged as the PM limping on to 2024.
Yup spot on. If he resigns the Tories are in big trouble.
Sending a tweet while he was eating a curry hardly amounts to continuing to work
Anyway that can easily be proven by the record of when he returned to his hotel, which by the way was serving food upto 9.00pm and room service after. Furthermore eating establishments were open despite Starmer saying there were not
1. Have you never eaten and worked at the same time? I do that several times most weeks. 2. Tweeting can be work. Many organisations from charities to companies to public sector organisations literally pay people tweet.
Bearing in mind it's the Labour Party Twitter account, tweeting about campaigning, sent whilst the memo says they were at work/eating, you'd have to have conclusive proof it wasn't work and that probably doesn't exist.
I think this really confirms that they were working.
Along with the value of the food and beer, seems like a bog-standard working dinner to me.
The issue here is that attendees are refuting the idea it was work
Are they? The guy quoted by the ST says "to the best of my knowledge" which suggests he wasn't actually there and doesn't know. Then you read who he is and there is no way he would be there. At a Tory campaign event perhaps but not Labour.
Sending a tweet while he was eating a curry hardly amounts to continuing to work
Anyway that can easily be proven by the record of when he returned to his hotel, which by the way was serving food upto 9.00pm and room service after. Furthermore eating establishments were open despite Starmer saying there were not
1. Have you never eaten and worked at the same time? I do that several times most weeks. 2. Tweeting can be work. Many organisations from charities to companies to public sector organisations literally pay people tweet.
Bearing in mind it's the Labour Party Twitter account, tweeting about campaigning, sent whilst the memo says they were at work/eating, you'd have to have conclusive proof it wasn't work and that probably doesn't exist.
I think this really confirms that they were working.
Along with the value of the food and beer, seems like a bog-standard working dinner to me.
The issue here is that attendees are refuting the idea it was work
Are they? The guy quoted by the ST says "to the best of my knowledge" which suggests he wasn't actually there and doesn't know. Then you read who he is and there is no way he would be there. At a Tory campaign event perhaps but not Labour.
This looks like labour v labour more than anything to do with the conservatives
SKS - There is some wiggle room for SKS as he was previously cleared by Durham police and should await the result of the new investigation. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
BOZO - The man has no shame, honour or integrity. He should have been turfed out weeks ago. Odious man. Replace with Jeremy Hunt.
ED - A man so boring and devoid of charisma that he makes John Major interesting. Replace with Daisy Cooper.
55% want referendum within 5 years, and the actual yes: no is 49/51 - a dead heat at present within MOE.
People voted for a referendum. In a democracy we should give people what they vote for. But in this campaign we need to set out the framework for how such votes take place as we can't just repeat them every electoral cycle.
Well done to them, these things make a massive difference to those in Ukraine, just as our forces fly out entertainers to overseas deployed troops to boost morale.
Just realised we haven’t heard from SAGE or iSAGE for months. Thank fuck. Wankers
That’s my Take of the Day from the confident position of my Kusadasi swimming pool
I think SAGE has been disbanded by the government. Indy Sage are still kicking about suggesting we all wear masks all the time and that the UK is a plague island etc... but ultimately it's the wittering of bitter remainers and now that COVID is over no one listens to them.
We could always ask them to look into Sweden's low excess deaths?
What we call "social distancing" is just normal behaviour in Sweden.
55% want referendum within 5 years, and the actual yes: no is 49/51 - a dead heat at present within MOE.
People voted for a referendum. In a democracy we should give people what they vote for. But in this campaign we need to set out the framework for how such votes take place as we can't just repeat them every electoral cycle.
Or have a 60% threshold so we don't have a "only get lucky once" bias.
55% want referendum within 5 years, and the actual yes: no is 49/51 - a dead heat at present within MOE.
Lol. All the figures are unchanged. Or MOE. And if you want to quote MOE the number that want a vote in the next 2-5 years is DOWN
45% don’t want to think about a vote at all
This is nowhere near enough for sturgeon to go to Westminster - or the people
As I said: it’s an impasse. And it hasn’t been changed by covid or Brexit - amazingly. Nor by the passage of time and NO voters “dying off”
The only thing that can change this is a change of mind at Westminster
Agree, and as Brexit fades and a Labour Government gets more probable, I don't see a route to Indyref2.
(Unless we get Black Swan like a disaster at Faslane, or the discovery of Mithril in the Cairngorms).
Wonder if NI goings on will have an impact?
Actually I have just thought of a scenario where a UK PM would - this decade - agree to a vote. It’s if the polls tilt decisively towards NO
A cunning PM might then say: Enough of this bollocks, we cannot have the UK perpetually menaced. Let’s have a vote and end this.
Very risky. That’s what Cameron tried to do over the EU and got the wrong result. But I can see it happening. I can’t see any other route for the foreseeable
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Farooq is a liberal so he won't be fussed either way.
I was kinda joking but if LP future leader is a trans woman will they say that the party has now had a woman leader???
Since everyone is defining my opinions, I might chip in with my own thoughts. Yes, I am a liberal (but not a Liberal). That puts me in a position I'm quite happy with, in that I can float across different parties depending on circumstance. I've voted Lib Dem, Conservative, Green, and, fairly recently, SNP. I'm not averse to voting Labour but I haven't yet. It might happen depending on what's on offer. As for the Labour leadership and gender representation, I'm in favour of reasonable measures that increase the participation of women in industries where they have been underrepresented but I'm not sure I would go as far as to say that specific, individual jobs should be restricted by gender. So, for example, tax breaks for companies that help move the needle towards something fairer might be a good thing. But saying that no man may apply for the leadership of a particular party sounds wrong wrong wrong. As heavy-handed as I am when it comes to political arguments, I think party rules and legislation need to be more encouraging rather than draconian. We should collectively motivate women to stand and clear up the misogyny that negatively impacts their desire to do politics, not just rule out men. A race to the top instead of a race to the bottom.
Talking about floating positions: I'm a LibDem these days and quite happy about it. That doesn't mean I have to agree with the party on every issue! And at the GE I will vote for the SNP to remove David Duguid. I thought that was incompatible with being a LD member but was assured it was ok by ACH so here I am...
That makes me wonder if Alex Cole-Hamilton has bothered reading his own party rules book.
Doxxing is not fine. So we should stop it. Calling someone "a twat" IS fine, clearly, otherwise 90% of my commentary is forbidden
As for @Heathener I agree with @NickPalmer. I used to think she was a troll, but I don't any more. If she is a Russian troll, she's not very good, she barely mentions anything-to-do-with Russia from one week to the next. She seems to be what she says she is, an opinionated Labour supporting woman with a fondness for Buddhism, she might be eccentric, but we are all eccentric - we're on here, for a start
Peace!
Technical question, if someone has used a series of made up usernames previously, can referring to them truly be said to be doxxing? Not that I’m suggesting that you’re an expert or anything.
Normally, no. But if one of the the previous usernames points to a meatspace identity, then yes.
SKS - There is some wiggle room for SKS as he was previously cleared by Durham police and should await the result of the new investigation. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
BOZO - The man has no shame, honour or integrity. He should have been turfed out weeks ago. Odious man. Replace with Jeremy Hunt.
ED - A man so boring and devoid of charisma that he makes John Major interesting. Replace with Daisy Cooper.
I agree as well, and I suspect he won't hesitate. It's not as if he has a legion of bozo fanboys like PB to smooth everything over and kick things into the long grass.
Sending a tweet while he was eating a curry hardly amounts to continuing to work
Anyway that can easily be proven by the record of when he returned to his hotel, which by the way was serving food upto 9.00pm and room service after. Furthermore eating establishments were open despite Starmer saying there were not
1. Have you never eaten and worked at the same time? I do that several times most weeks. 2. Tweeting can be work. Many organisations from charities to companies to public sector organisations literally pay people tweet.
Bearing in mind it's the Labour Party Twitter account, tweeting about campaigning, sent whilst the memo says they were at work/eating, you'd have to have conclusive proof it wasn't work and that probably doesn't exist.
I think this really confirms that they were working.
Along with the value of the food and beer, seems like a bog-standard working dinner to me.
The issue here is that attendees are refuting the idea it was work
Are they? The guy quoted by the ST says "to the best of my knowledge" which suggests he wasn't actually there and doesn't know. Then you read who he is and there is no way he would be there. At a Tory campaign event perhaps but not Labour.
This looks like labour v labour more than anything to do with the conservatives
Team Corbyn are openly batting for the Tories now.
Doxxing is not fine. So we should stop it. Calling someone "a twat" IS fine, clearly, otherwise 90% of my commentary is forbidden
As for @Heathener I agree with @NickPalmer. I used to think she was a troll, but I don't any more. If she is a Russian troll, she's not very good, she barely mentions anything-to-do-with Russia from one week to the next. She seems to be what she says she is, an opinionated Labour supporting woman with a fondness for Buddhism, she might be eccentric, but we are all eccentric - we're on here, for a start
Peace!
Technical question, if someone has used a series of made up usernames previously, can referring to them truly be said to be doxxing? Not that I’m suggesting that you’re an expert or anything.
Normally, no. But if one of the the previous usernames points to a meatspace identity, then yes.
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Farooq is a liberal so he won't be fussed either way.
I was kinda joking but if LP future leader is a trans woman will they say that the party has now had a woman leader???
Since everyone is defining my opinions, I might chip in with my own thoughts. Yes, I am a liberal (but not a Liberal). That puts me in a position I'm quite happy with, in that I can float across different parties depending on circumstance. I've voted Lib Dem, Conservative, Green, and, fairly recently, SNP. I'm not averse to voting Labour but I haven't yet. It might happen depending on what's on offer. As for the Labour leadership and gender representation, I'm in favour of reasonable measures that increase the participation of women in industries where they have been underrepresented but I'm not sure I would go as far as to say that specific, individual jobs should be restricted by gender. So, for example, tax breaks for companies that help move the needle towards something fairer might be a good thing. But saying that no man may apply for the leadership of a particular party sounds wrong wrong wrong. As heavy-handed as I am when it comes to political arguments, I think party rules and legislation need to be more encouraging rather than draconian. We should collectively motivate women to stand and clear up the misogyny that negatively impacts their desire to do politics, not just rule out men. A race to the top instead of a race to the bottom.
Talking about floating positions: I'm a LibDem these days and quite happy about it. That doesn't mean I have to agree with the party on every issue! And at the GE I will vote for the SNP to remove David Duguid. I thought that was incompatible with being a LD member but was assured it was ok by ACH so here I am...
That makes me wonder if Alex Cole-Hamilton has bothered reading his own party rules book.
Which is why I resigned my membership. But if the leader tells me it's fine then it's fine. So back I came.
World This Weekend just devoted the full half hour to Northern Ireland. Which was simultaneously both refreshing and thoroughly depressing.
And? Do they have any idea what is happening next? My guess is that the DUP will take their ball away and stop Stormount from sitting. Which is indeed depressing.
Well done to them, these things make a massive difference to those in Ukraine, just as our forces fly out entertainers to overseas deployed troops to boost morale.
Wonder what they played? Not much off War I reckon.
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Must be hard to keep track of your lines to take today, Vlad.
Yeah right Phillip Thompson.
See? Two can play the game.
The next Labour leader must and will be a woman. Sorry that this is causing such confusion for the right wing gammons.
Have a nice day folks.
Off out to walk around Hook Heath. I guess I could meet up with tlg86 some time and then that really will make you 'you're a troll' tories look even more stupid and dumbass than you already are (if that's poss.)
@PBModerator has said it's against the rules to doxx people.
Hoist with your own petard situation I'd have thought if you want to call vlad
Only if he genuinely is Vlad though.
One is a joke, a turn of phrase, the other is doxxing with full name.
Oh how we laughed and why should they be a "he"
Malcolm, do you think Alba still have a future after these elections? Not a single councillor in the whole of Scotland and some truly embarrassing figures in individual constituencies. It seems as if the SNP have drilled loyalty into their membership too well for a break off to thrive.
I think they're doomed. And the election results are not much to do with the membership, but more the voters. Most voters aren't members, and the voters took one look at Alba and went "nah mate". It's over for Salmond. Not with a bang but with a whimper.
That was very much my view but @malcolmg has been a strong supporter and I wondered if he could give us any insight from the inside. Guilty or not guilty the hatchet job done on Salmond has worked a treat for Nicola.
Yeah, I'd like to hear Malky's view on it too. It never ceases to strike me how effective Sturgeon is. I've said in the past that I admire her. A measure of her success is the way the Conservatives were over the moon with the 2017 results and now in 2022 Labour also very pleased at wresting 2nd place back off them. When your opponents are pleased with second, it says a lot.
Salmond is just the latest in a long line of politicians who've tried to take her down and ended up in a crumpled heap instead. Whether you like her or not, her electoral record is astonishing.
EDIT Too slow, Malky's thoughts now apparent.
I think she has strong backing from London, we see lots of rubbish in print but I think she has an understanding that the boat only gets rocked so much. Can be no other reason why she has failed to do anything for so many years. Power crazy and is looking for a big job. Would be interesting to see what her superinjuctions are about as well and seems Swinney may also a naughty boy. They have managed to get rid of any thinking people and surrounded themselves with a bunch of grasping wasters. They will run out of cash though and unlike the other regional parties do not have London to bail them out.
Alternatively, she only wants to hold a referendum when there is a near certainty of winning. Another lost referendum - when would the third be?
Well done to them, these things make a massive difference to those in Ukraine, just as our forces fly out entertainers to overseas deployed troops to boost morale.
Wonder what they played? Not much off War I reckon.
"Scientists Say There’s an ‘Anti-Universe’ Running Backward in Time
"Could it be that a newly discovered “anti-universe” might run parallel to our own universe? If so, it would essentially spread out “backward” in time, prior to the Big Bang, in the same way our universe progressed “forward” in time."
Yeah, I'd like to hear Malky's view on it too. It never ceases to strike me how effective Sturgeon is. I've said in the past that I admire her. A measure of her success is the way the Conservatives were over the moon with the 2017 results and now in 2022 Labour also very pleased at wresting 2nd place back off them. When your opponents are pleased with second, it says a lot.
Salmond is just the latest in a long line of politicians who've tried to take her down and ended up in a crumpled heap instead. Whether you like her or not, her electoral record is astonishing.
EDIT Too slow, Malky's thoughts now apparent.
NS is a political colossus, no doubt, but her success is built on the foundation of conspicuously wanting, but not actually doing much to get, independence. While that approach has been electorally successful for a very long time it must run out of steam at some point.
It's one of the reasons I think Johnson would be happy to offer an indyref to the SNP as the price of confidence and support. He knows NS doesn't really want one and he'd believe, with some justification, that he could win it anyway.
The other reason he might do it is that he doesn't give a fuck about Scotland. That country being a minor subset of the many things that aren't Boris Johnson that he doesn't give a fuck about.
I hear it so much it makes me doubt myself, but I'm still quite convinced that this is a mistaken view. I detect a real eagerness for a vote from the SNP leadership, but they've put the lid on it because of Covid. Now the locals are out of the way, we'll see whether I'm right or wrong. I expect a big move before the summer is out. If we get to September and it's all tumbleweed, you're right and I'm wrong.
EDIT: rethinking slightly, by the end of the conference, when is that, October?
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Must be hard to keep track of your lines to take today, Vlad.
Yeah right Phillip Thompson.
See? Two can play the game.
The next Labour leader must and will be a woman. Sorry that this is causing such confusion for the right wing gammons.
Have a nice day folks.
Off out to walk around Hook Heath. I guess I could meet up with tlg86 some time and then that really will make you 'you're a troll' tories look even more stupid and dumbass than you already are (if that's poss.)
@PBModerator has said it's against the rules to doxx people.
Hoist with your own petard situation I'd have thought if you want to call vlad
Only if he genuinely is Vlad though.
One is a joke, a turn of phrase, the other is doxxing with full name.
Oh how we laughed and why should they be a "he"
Malcolm, do you think Alba still have a future after these elections? Not a single councillor in the whole of Scotland and some truly embarrassing figures in individual constituencies. It seems as if the SNP have drilled loyalty into their membership too well for a break off to thrive.
I think they're doomed. And the election results are not much to do with the membership, but more the voters. Most voters aren't members, and the voters took one look at Alba and went "nah mate". It's over for Salmond. Not with a bang but with a whimper.
That was very much my view but @malcolmg has been a strong supporter and I wondered if he could give us any insight from the inside. Guilty or not guilty the hatchet job done on Salmond has worked a treat for Nicola.
Yeah, I'd like to hear Malky's view on it too. It never ceases to strike me how effective Sturgeon is. I've said in the past that I admire her. A measure of her success is the way the Conservatives were over the moon with the 2017 results and now in 2022 Labour also very pleased at wresting 2nd place back off them. When your opponents are pleased with second, it says a lot.
Salmond is just the latest in a long line of politicians who've tried to take her down and ended up in a crumpled heap instead. Whether you like her or not, her electoral record is astonishing.
EDIT Too slow, Malky's thoughts now apparent.
I think she has strong backing from London, we see lots of rubbish in print but I think she has an understanding that the boat only gets rocked so much. Can be no other reason why she has failed to do anything for so many years. Power crazy and is looking for a big job. Would be interesting to see what her superinjuctions are about as well and seems Swinney may also a naughty boy. They have managed to get rid of any thinking people and surrounded themselves with a bunch of grasping wasters. They will run out of cash though and unlike the other regional parties do not have London to bail them out.
Alternatively, she only wants to hold a referendum when there is a near certainty of winning. Another lost referendum - when would the third be?
She really doesn't want to hold one.
Do you think there is anyone of any significance in the SNP who would really push for one?
I don't know if it has been posted down thread but rumours that Russia has lost control of (abandoned?) Snake Island. Whether Ukraine has got it is another matter.
On a related point I did ask the question yesterday as to whether we can do something about the blockade on Odessa? It's not just an economic disaster for Ukraine but a potential food crisis for the world. What would be the problem with Nato ships escorting commercial vessels out of the area?
The Odessa approaches would have to be demined and I don't see a stampede of NATO navies volunteering for that operation.
Also, nobody will do blockade running if the USN won't and they look supremely disinterested with the nearest ship being USNS Trenton at Souda Bay.
Labour performance, in terms of numbers of councillors:
Welsh Labour +14.3% Scottish Labour +7.6% English Labour +1.3%
I think it is fair to conclude that Drakeford is Labour’s best leader, and Starmer is a dud.
Up 1.3% against an horrifically poor Tory government, mid-term, is just eye-wateringly pathetic.
Statistically nonsense. It's easier to get larger percentage increases among smaller populations, and a lot more people voted in London than in Wales, let alone England as a whole.
Absolute guff. If anything, Drakeford had the hardest job. He’s in office, was working from a high base, and it is always super tempting to kick the incumbent in low-importance mid-terms.
It's very basic law of large numbers. Plus your chosen metric suffers from base effects. Your chosen metric is basically complete nonsense. It has zero useful information.
Don’t tell Anas Sarwar. He’s been hailed a genius on the back of those numbers.
Mostly by himself and Foulkes tbf.
Is Foulkes still a thing? I assumed most of the reptiles were still skulking under rocks.
World This Weekend just devoted the full half hour to Northern Ireland. Which was simultaneously both refreshing and thoroughly depressing.
And? Do they have any idea what is happening next? My guess is that the DUP will take their ball away and stop Stormount from sitting. Which is indeed depressing.
From what Edwin Poots was saying, they are threatening a total non co-operation with any of the terms of the GFA. Basically, they want the protocol binned and a series of re-runs of elections till they rightfully win. Meanwhile. The Health Service, in particular, is in the toilet and no decisions on that, or much else can be made. The Alliance want the GFA re-negotiated too.
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Must be hard to keep track of your lines to take today, Vlad.
Yeah right Phillip Thompson.
See? Two can play the game.
The next Labour leader must and will be a woman. Sorry that this is causing such confusion for the right wing gammons.
Have a nice day folks.
Off out to walk around Hook Heath. I guess I could meet up with tlg86 some time and then that really will make you 'you're a troll' tories look even more stupid and dumbass than you already are (if that's poss.)
@PBModerator has said it's against the rules to doxx people.
Hoist with your own petard situation I'd have thought if you want to call vlad
Only if he genuinely is Vlad though.
One is a joke, a turn of phrase, the other is doxxing with full name.
Oh how we laughed and why should they be a "he"
Malcolm, do you think Alba still have a future after these elections? Not a single councillor in the whole of Scotland and some truly embarrassing figures in individual constituencies. It seems as if the SNP have drilled loyalty into their membership too well for a break off to thrive.
Looks a forlorn hope David. Looks like it will need to be Labour that cleanse the SNP ( the sheeple seem to forgive every useless policy , disaster , etc). If only they had a backbone and some independent thinking rather than just London clones. At some point someone with brains will get them out of just being patsies taking orders. They need to swing at least some way to independence , full fiscal autonomy or they will get nowhere. SNP are useless till Sturgeon and her clique of crooks, rogues and self ider's are history. She must fall soon , no-one can keep all that manure hidden forever. Meanwhile Scotland burns, gets ever more like a basket case that deserves to be just a colony.
Surely if you are a nationalist and dislike Sturgeon you already have a successful party to vote for - the Scottish Greens. I'm not a nat but recognise the clear electoral mandate last year for a 2nd referendum. Dodgy Alex and his cult weren't needed to deliver that, so why care that they have largely died out?
The Scottish Greens are ridiculously Woke, especially on things like Trans - they are even Wokier than the SNP (which is going some)
I don't think @malcolmg is particularly Woke, so I see his dilemma. Alba promised to be the non-Woke Nats, but they've now evanesced
As you say Leon absolutely and utterly not woke , so political wilderness for me at present. I did not even vote for the first time in my life, had no Alba choice.
Yeah, I'd like to hear Malky's view on it too. It never ceases to strike me how effective Sturgeon is. I've said in the past that I admire her. A measure of her success is the way the Conservatives were over the moon with the 2017 results and now in 2022 Labour also very pleased at wresting 2nd place back off them. When your opponents are pleased with second, it says a lot.
Salmond is just the latest in a long line of politicians who've tried to take her down and ended up in a crumpled heap instead. Whether you like her or not, her electoral record is astonishing.
EDIT Too slow, Malky's thoughts now apparent.
NS is a political colossus, no doubt, but her success is built on the foundation of conspicuously wanting, but not actually doing much to get, independence. While that approach has been electorally successful for a very long time it must run out of steam at some point.
It's one of the reasons I think Johnson would be happy to offer an indyref to the SNP as the price of confidence and support. He knows NS doesn't really want one and he'd believe, with some justification, that he could win it anyway.
The other reason he might do it is that he doesn't give a fuck about Scotland. That country being a minor subset of the many things that aren't Boris Johnson that he doesn't give a fuck about.
I hear it so much it makes me doubt myself, but I'm still quite convinced that this is a mistaken view. I detect a real eagerness for a vote from the SNP leadership, but they've put the lid on it because of Covid. Now the locals are out of the way, we'll see whether I'm right or wrong. I expect a big move before the summer is out. If we get to September and it's all tumbleweed, you're right and I'm wrong.
EDIT: rethinking slightly, by the end of the conference, when is that, October?
But there is nothing she can DO
Even if the entire Conference and its Nan decides "2023 is the year" she can call for a referendum and legislate for this and that and then Boris says No, and.... er..... then what?
She won't go for UDI or a wildcat vote
She is then reliant on Starmer (if he survives currygate) winning but winning so narrowly he needs to offer the SNP indyref2 in return for their support (but I don't believe Starmer would do that, either)
The Nat cause is in a fix. I am not sure how the fix is fixed
The same way every other country goes independent , you campaign on independence and when you win you declare it, international law states that everyone is entitled to self government if they want it by a majority.
I don't know if it has been posted down thread but rumours that Russia has lost control of (abandoned?) Snake Island. Whether Ukraine has got it is another matter.
On a related point I did ask the question yesterday as to whether we can do something about the blockade on Odessa? It's not just an economic disaster for Ukraine but a potential food crisis for the world. What would be the problem with Nato ships escorting commercial vessels out of the area?
The Odessa approaches would have to be demined and I don't see a stampede of NATO navies volunteering for that operation.
Also, nobody will do blockade running if the USN won't and they look supremely disinterested with the nearest ship being USNS Trenton at Souda Bay.
"The Odessa approaches would have to be demined and I don't see a stampede of NATO navies volunteering for that operation."
Just do what the Russians allegedly did, and just send another nation's ships into the danger area to 'find' the mines. Since we're decent people we won't make civilian ships do it; the Russians can use theirs as part of the peace settlement.
What's to lose? There'll be more dive sites for the Ukrainians to use.
But to be serious for a moment, there's always the problem of getting ships to the area. I cannot see the Turks letting NATO ships in and banning Russian ones.
That's not proof that the Tweet was sent from the event; that it was him who sent it; that the event as a whole wasn't tainted even if he was working (the "Rishi" scenario).
Not saying you are wrong, just that you haven't proved it
This is very much at the heart of the issue and the source was an attendee
The source who was present is willing to help police with their inquiries. Crucially, the source said Starmer did not go back to work after eating his curry: “It has been claimed that Starmer worked during the curry and then after the curry. None of those two things happened. He did not go back to work to the best of my knowledge.”
They also accused some attendees, including Foy and her staff, of not working at all and only being there to socialise.
“They were just there drinking,” said the source. “This made some people feel uncomfortable because they knew there was a risk we could be accused of breaking the rules.
“Mary Foy and her staff were not working and I have not got a problem telling that to the police. They were just getting pissed. They were just there for a jolly. It’s not something that I am prepared to defend. They just thought it was pretty cool to hang out with the leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party. I wouldn’t say they were hammered but they were definitely a little bit tipsy by the end.”
The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”
LOL , a sad corbyn fan , what next. Reeks of desperation, Tories are crapping themselves.
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Must be hard to keep track of your lines to take today, Vlad.
Yeah right Phillip Thompson.
See? Two can play the game.
The next Labour leader must and will be a woman. Sorry that this is causing such confusion for the right wing gammons.
Have a nice day folks.
Off out to walk around Hook Heath. I guess I could meet up with tlg86 some time and then that really will make you 'you're a troll' tories look even more stupid and dumbass than you already are (if that's poss.)
@PBModerator has said it's against the rules to doxx people.
Hoist with your own petard situation I'd have thought if you want to call vlad
Only if he genuinely is Vlad though.
One is a joke, a turn of phrase, the other is doxxing with full name.
Oh how we laughed and why should they be a "he"
Malcolm, do you think Alba still have a future after these elections? Not a single councillor in the whole of Scotland and some truly embarrassing figures in individual constituencies. It seems as if the SNP have drilled loyalty into their membership too well for a break off to thrive.
Looks a forlorn hope David. Looks like it will need to be Labour that cleanse the SNP ( the sheeple seem to forgive every useless policy , disaster , etc). If only they had a backbone and some independent thinking rather than just London clones. At some point someone with brains will get them out of just being patsies taking orders. They need to swing at least some way to independence , full fiscal autonomy or they will get nowhere. SNP are useless till Sturgeon and her clique of crooks, rogues and self ider's are history. She must fall soon , no-one can keep all that manure hidden forever. Meanwhile Scotland burns, gets ever more like a basket case that deserves to be just a colony.
Surely if you are a nationalist and dislike Sturgeon you already have a successful party to vote for - the Scottish Greens. I'm not a nat but recognise the clear electoral mandate last year for a 2nd referendum. Dodgy Alex and his cult weren't needed to deliver that, so why care that they have largely died out?
You have to be kidding , they are neither nationalist or green. Their leaders are odious creeps and them being useful idiots for Sturgeon does not incline me to ever consider voting for them. Only two hopes are that Sturgeon gets found out or labour come to their senses and stop being London lickspittles.
I have a lot of time for Andy Wightman - he really got up the nose of Tory landowners and Labour apparatchiks alike with his examination of land ownership, never mind dodgy firms, and got sued for it. It was a disgrace that the Greens forced him out.
Is it possible Starmer went back to work and some other people didn’t .
In which case what happens then .
I don't think that's relevant. AFAIK Durham Police have to determine two things: was the event illegal and did Starmer participate? This clearly was a work event and the schedule leaked by the Mail yesterday actually corroborates that. It would be illegal if there was a significant degree of apparently unscheduled socialisation. The case for an event that was actually promoted as "Birthday Party!" seems easier to make.
We don't know what evidence Durham Police are looking at, nor how they are going to call it. Going on what's known in the public domain it doesn't look particularly obvious to me, but I take a fairly relaxed view on all of these events/parties.
There is a potential hypocrisy argument to make against Starmer but (a) hypocrisy isn't illegal; (b) while Johnson refuses to resign over his actual FPN(s) it doesn't really land on Starmer. It would be different if Starmer is served with an FPN and also refuses to resign. I don't think that will happen because I think it more likely he won't get an FPN and he will resign anyway if he does.
The issue, as I see it, isn't whether it was "a work event" but whether it was "reasonably necessary for work".
We know that there were other sources of food available, so the teams could have returned to their hotels and eaten separately.
For it to be "reasonably necessary" in my view then they would have needed to return to work after dinner - i.e. was a break from work vs. something that was tagged on at the end of the work day to say thank you to the troops.
Indeed. Again with the caveat Durham Police will make the call not us, I don't think it matters that alternative food supplies were available, as long as you can make a semi-convincing argument that it was a working dinner, which may be implied by yesterday's leaked schedule
I disagree - the alternative suppliers are important.
If they did not exist then it is automatically "reasonably necessary" to have the food independent of whether there was any work afterwards.
If they do exist then it is not proof that there was an event, but it does require proof that work continued during/afterwards. I don't think you can rely on the schedule to proof it was "reasonably necessary".
With the caveat that this is all bollocks, the police shouldn't be getting involved in either the Downing Street or the Durham events and it's all about the politics.
I don't know if it has been posted down thread but rumours that Russia has lost control of (abandoned?) Snake Island. Whether Ukraine has got it is another matter.
On a related point I did ask the question yesterday as to whether we can do something about the blockade on Odessa? It's not just an economic disaster for Ukraine but a potential food crisis for the world. What would be the problem with Nato ships escorting commercial vessels out of the area?
Looking at the videos the Ukranians certainly gave it a pasting and sunk several ships as well.
World This Weekend just devoted the full half hour to Northern Ireland. Which was simultaneously both refreshing and thoroughly depressing.
And? Do they have any idea what is happening next? My guess is that the DUP will take their ball away and stop Stormount from sitting. Which is indeed depressing.
From what Edwin Poots was saying, they are threatening a total non co-operation with any of the terms of the GFA. Basically, they want the protocol binned and a series of re-runs of elections till they rightfully win. Meanwhile. The Health Service, in particular, is in the toilet and no decisions on that, or much else can be made. The Alliance want the GFA re-negotiated too.
AIUI, Alliance wants the dysfunctional government system in Stormont to be reformed to something more normal, not the basic settlement of the Good Friday Agreement. This is the system where only a coalition consisting of the largest unionist party and the largest nationalist party is allowed to form a government.
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Must be hard to keep track of your lines to take today, Vlad.
Yeah right Phillip Thompson.
See? Two can play the game.
The next Labour leader must and will be a woman. Sorry that this is causing such confusion for the right wing gammons.
Have a nice day folks.
Off out to walk around Hook Heath. I guess I could meet up with tlg86 some time and then that really will make you 'you're a troll' tories look even more stupid and dumbass than you already are (if that's poss.)
@PBModerator has said it's against the rules to doxx people.
Hoist with your own petard situation I'd have thought if you want to call vlad
Only if he genuinely is Vlad though.
One is a joke, a turn of phrase, the other is doxxing with full name.
Oh how we laughed and why should they be a "he"
Malcolm, do you think Alba still have a future after these elections? Not a single councillor in the whole of Scotland and some truly embarrassing figures in individual constituencies. It seems as if the SNP have drilled loyalty into their membership too well for a break off to thrive.
Looks a forlorn hope David. Looks like it will need to be Labour that cleanse the SNP ( the sheeple seem to forgive every useless policy , disaster , etc). If only they had a backbone and some independent thinking rather than just London clones. At some point someone with brains will get them out of just being patsies taking orders. They need to swing at least some way to independence , full fiscal autonomy or they will get nowhere. SNP are useless till Sturgeon and her clique of crooks, rogues and self ider's are history. She must fall soon , no-one can keep all that manure hidden forever. Meanwhile Scotland burns, gets ever more like a basket case that deserves to be just a colony.
Surely if you are a nationalist and dislike Sturgeon you already have a successful party to vote for - the Scottish Greens. I'm not a nat but recognise the clear electoral mandate last year for a 2nd referendum. Dodgy Alex and his cult weren't needed to deliver that, so why care that they have largely died out?
The Scottish Greens are ridiculously Woke, especially on things like Trans - they are even Wokier than the SNP (which is going some)
I don't think @malcolmg is particularly Woke, so I see his dilemma. Alba promised to be the non-Woke Nats, but they've now evanesced
As you say Leon absolutely and utterly not woke , so political wilderness for me at present. I did not even vote for the first time in my life, had no Alba choice.
Are you a member? Did you ever consider standing?
I am a member but given I have principles and morals I could never enter politics. It is full of crooks, donkeys and comic singers with a few decent people. PS: I also would not have the time, I spend enough hours working at something I like to spend the rest on the horror of politics.
World This Weekend just devoted the full half hour to Northern Ireland. Which was simultaneously both refreshing and thoroughly depressing.
And? Do they have any idea what is happening next? My guess is that the DUP will take their ball away and stop Stormount from sitting. Which is indeed depressing.
From what Edwin Poots was saying, they are threatening a total non co-operation with any of the terms of the GFA. Basically, they want the protocol binned and a series of re-runs of elections till they rightfully win. Meanwhile. The Health Service, in particular, is in the toilet and no decisions on that, or much else can be made. The Alliance want the GFA re-negotiated too.
AIUI, Alliance wants the dysfunctional government system in Stormont to be reformed to something more normal, not the basic settlement of the Good Friday Agreement. This is the system where only a coalition consisting of the largest unionist party and the largest nationalist party is allowed to form a government.
Indeed. However, I would argue, that is the fundamental basis of the GFA. At least the governance of the Province bit of it.
"Scientists Say There’s an ‘Anti-Universe’ Running Backward in Time
"Could it be that a newly discovered “anti-universe” might run parallel to our own universe? If so, it would essentially spread out “backward” in time, prior to the Big Bang, in the same way our universe progressed “forward” in time."
I don't know if it has been posted down thread but rumours that Russia has lost control of (abandoned?) Snake Island. Whether Ukraine has got it is another matter.
On a related point I did ask the question yesterday as to whether we can do something about the blockade on Odessa? It's not just an economic disaster for Ukraine but a potential food crisis for the world. What would be the problem with Nato ships escorting commercial vessels out of the area?
AIUI (fog of war and all that)
The strike on the Admiral Makrov pushed back the Russian naval-based air cover
The Ukrainians then used TB2 to strike at the island
I think they have denied it to Russia rather than retaken it. But that's an important strategic location to deny to the enemy.
Nato ships can't get into the Black Sea as they can't pass through the Straits unless they have a home port there
I don't know if it has been posted down thread but rumours that Russia has lost control of (abandoned?) Snake Island. Whether Ukraine has got it is another matter.
On a related point I did ask the question yesterday as to whether we can do something about the blockade on Odessa? It's not just an economic disaster for Ukraine but a potential food crisis for the world. What would be the problem with Nato ships escorting commercial vessels out of the area?
Looking at the videos the Ukranians certainly gave it a pasting and sunk several ships as well.
There were some videos of Ukrainian plane strikes on the island that came out last night/this morning. Then one of a helicopter getting hit. Scuttlebutt is that the helicopter contained Russian special forces who were sent in to help extract survivors.
Although I'm unsure why they'd send in sf to rescue people from an island where there are no enemy troops.
Labour performance, in terms of numbers of councillors:
Welsh Labour +14.3% Scottish Labour +7.6% English Labour +1.3%
I think it is fair to conclude that Drakeford is Labour’s best leader, and Starmer is a dud.
Up 1.3% against an horrifically poor Tory government, mid-term, is just eye-wateringly pathetic.
Statistically nonsense. It's easier to get larger percentage increases among smaller populations, and a lot more people voted in London than in Wales, let alone England as a whole.
Absolute guff. If anything, Drakeford had the hardest job. He’s in office, was working from a high base, and it is always super tempting to kick the incumbent in low-importance mid-terms.
It's very basic law of large numbers. Plus your chosen metric suffers from base effects. Your chosen metric is basically complete nonsense. It has zero useful information.
Don’t tell Anas Sarwar. He’s been hailed a genius on the back of those numbers.
Mostly by himself and Foulkes tbf.
Is Foulkes still a thing? I assumed most of the reptiles were still skulking under rocks.
He is still collecting his daily bung and among the top expenses claimers in the land, no change there.
That's not proof that the Tweet was sent from the event; that it was him who sent it; that the event as a whole wasn't tainted even if he was working (the "Rishi" scenario).
Not saying you are wrong, just that you haven't proved it
This is very much at the heart of the issue and the source was an attendee
The source who was present is willing to help police with their inquiries. Crucially, the source said Starmer did not go back to work after eating his curry: “It has been claimed that Starmer worked during the curry and then after the curry. None of those two things happened. He did not go back to work to the best of my knowledge.”
They also accused some attendees, including Foy and her staff, of not working at all and only being there to socialise.
“They were just there drinking,” said the source. “This made some people feel uncomfortable because they knew there was a risk we could be accused of breaking the rules.
“Mary Foy and her staff were not working and I have not got a problem telling that to the police. They were just getting pissed. They were just there for a jolly. It’s not something that I am prepared to defend. They just thought it was pretty cool to hang out with the leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party. I wouldn’t say they were hammered but they were definitely a little bit tipsy by the end.”
The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”
To the best of my knowledge ! Look out for the Mirror and Guardian over the next few days . If they don’t produce something helpful for Starmer then I’d see that as curtains for him , if they do he might survive .
I really think it is just stupid that Starmer may have to go over his own unwise words and him being a lawyer and previous head of the CPS
You could not make this up
On the 10:13pm tweet:
a) You can automate the time these posts get sent out with apps like tweetdeck
b) I doubt Starmer sends his own tweets anyway.
As to the day's work - I think it was mainly in the Hull area. That was a good day's work then - the council has just fallen to Liberal Dems.
You'd need very strong evidence that he didn't send the Tweet or that one of his own team there didn't - which the Durham Police may have.
I'm just saying, there does seem to be some evidence of work going on post the meal.
I'd imagine that you can figure that out from logins / phone location data. No one on here will know, though, unless it's been publicly released.
I think it's weaker than "some evidence"... may be "early indications"
55% want referendum within 5 years, and the actual yes: no is 49/51 - a dead heat at present within MOE.
People voted for a referendum. In a democracy we should give people what they vote for. But in this campaign we need to set out the framework for how such votes take place as we can't just repeat them every electoral cycle.
Last time there was an election to the legislative body that can call a referendum, parties wanting a referendum got less than 10% of the seats.
World This Weekend just devoted the full half hour to Northern Ireland. Which was simultaneously both refreshing and thoroughly depressing.
And? Do they have any idea what is happening next? My guess is that the DUP will take their ball away and stop Stormount from sitting. Which is indeed depressing.
From what Edwin Poots was saying, they are threatening a total non co-operation with any of the terms of the GFA. Basically, they want the protocol binned and a series of re-runs of elections till they rightfully win. Meanwhile. The Health Service, in particular, is in the toilet and no decisions on that, or much else can be made. The Alliance want the GFA re-negotiated too.
End compulsory power sharing, and the DUP can go into opposition if they wish.
Or cut off the salaries of MLA's who refuse to sit.
Doxxing is not fine. So we should stop it. Calling someone "a twat" IS fine, clearly, otherwise 90% of my commentary is forbidden
As for @Heathener I agree with @NickPalmer. I used to think she was a troll, but I don't any more. If she is a Russian troll, she's not very good, she barely mentions anything-to-do-with Russia from one week to the next. She seems to be what she says she is, an opinionated Labour supporting woman with a fondness for Buddhism, she might be eccentric, but we are all eccentric - we're on here, for a start
Peace!
Technical question, if someone has used a series of made up usernames previously, can referring to them truly be said to be doxxing? Not that I’m suggesting that you’re an expert or anything.
Normally, no. But if one of the the previous usernames points to a meatspace identity, then yes.
. A Starmer FPN and he goes. Replace with Andy Burnham
Under NO circumstances:
He failed massively to win last time. Why? Because he is no bloody good.
He's not even an MP. Duh.
He will put off all the new Labour voters down sarf. And we still need them.
He has a penis.
So in the words of Maggie, 'No. No. No.'
What the fuck difference does it make that "he has a penis"? Are you high?
Says a man. And a tory man at that.
It makes 'the fuck difference' because Labour MUST choose a woman as next leader.
End of.
And I'm a Labour supporter. You're not. So piss off.
xx
Given that your party can't define what a woman is it's all a bit academic isn't it?
Non sequitur.
We need our next leader to be a woman. Whether that's someone who is a trans woman is another issue but I doubt the red wall thickos like Fucker Faroq would cope with it.
Next Labour leader must be a woman. End of.
Must be hard to keep track of your lines to take today, Vlad.
Yeah right Phillip Thompson.
See? Two can play the game.
The next Labour leader must and will be a woman. Sorry that this is causing such confusion for the right wing gammons.
Have a nice day folks.
Off out to walk around Hook Heath. I guess I could meet up with tlg86 some time and then that really will make you 'you're a troll' tories look even more stupid and dumbass than you already are (if that's poss.)
@PBModerator has said it's against the rules to doxx people.
Hoist with your own petard situation I'd have thought if you want to call vlad
Only if he genuinely is Vlad though.
One is a joke, a turn of phrase, the other is doxxing with full name.
Oh how we laughed and why should they be a "he"
Malcolm, do you think Alba still have a future after these elections? Not a single councillor in the whole of Scotland and some truly embarrassing figures in individual constituencies. It seems as if the SNP have drilled loyalty into their membership too well for a break off to thrive.
I think they're doomed. And the election results are not much to do with the membership, but more the voters. Most voters aren't members, and the voters took one look at Alba and went "nah mate". It's over for Salmond. Not with a bang but with a whimper.
That was very much my view but @malcolmg has been a strong supporter and I wondered if he could give us any insight from the inside. Guilty or not guilty the hatchet job done on Salmond has worked a treat for Nicola.
Yeah, I'd like to hear Malky's view on it too. It never ceases to strike me how effective Sturgeon is. I've said in the past that I admire her. A measure of her success is the way the Conservatives were over the moon with the 2017 results and now in 2022 Labour also very pleased at wresting 2nd place back off them. When your opponents are pleased with second, it says a lot.
Salmond is just the latest in a long line of politicians who've tried to take her down and ended up in a crumpled heap instead. Whether you like her or not, her electoral record is astonishing.
EDIT Too slow, Malky's thoughts now apparent.
I think she has strong backing from London, we see lots of rubbish in print but I think she has an understanding that the boat only gets rocked so much. Can be no other reason why she has failed to do anything for so many years. Power crazy and is looking for a big job. Would be interesting to see what her superinjuctions are about as well and seems Swinney may also a naughty boy. They have managed to get rid of any thinking people and surrounded themselves with a bunch of grasping wasters. They will run out of cash though and unlike the other regional parties do not have London to bail them out.
Alternatively, she only wants to hold a referendum when there is a near certainty of winning. Another lost referendum - when would the third be?
She really doesn't want to hold one.
Do you think there is anyone of any significance in the SNP who would really push for one?
No one jumps to mind.
Not in the current mob, they are all gravy trainers wanting to keep their cushy very well paid numbers. Macbeth will certainly not be the one. Only one I would think of is Cherry but they will do their utmost best to not have her selected next time as she is too clever for them.
Labour performance, in terms of numbers of councillors:
Welsh Labour +14.3% Scottish Labour +7.6% English Labour +1.3%
I think it is fair to conclude that Drakeford is Labour’s best leader, and Starmer is a dud.
Up 1.3% against an horrifically poor Tory government, mid-term, is just eye-wateringly pathetic.
Statistically nonsense. It's easier to get larger percentage increases among smaller populations, and a lot more people voted in London than in Wales, let alone England as a whole.
Absolute guff. If anything, Drakeford had the hardest job. He’s in office, was working from a high base, and it is always super tempting to kick the incumbent in low-importance mid-terms.
It's very basic law of large numbers. Plus your chosen metric suffers from base effects. Your chosen metric is basically complete nonsense. It has zero useful information.
Don’t tell Anas Sarwar. He’s been hailed a genius on the back of those numbers.
Mostly by himself and Foulkes tbf.
Is Foulkes still a thing? I assumed most of the reptiles were still skulking under rocks.
He is still collecting his daily bung and among the top expenses claimers in the land, no change there.
Too busy trying to fiddle the law over independence referenda and saying that Scots doesn't exist.
Doxxing is not fine. So we should stop it. Calling someone "a twat" IS fine, clearly, otherwise 90% of my commentary is forbidden
As for @Heathener I agree with @NickPalmer. I used to think she was a troll, but I don't any more. If she is a Russian troll, she's not very good, she barely mentions anything-to-do-with Russia from one week to the next. She seems to be what she says she is, an opinionated Labour supporting woman with a fondness for Buddhism, she might be eccentric, but we are all eccentric - we're on here, for a start
Peace!
Technical question, if someone has used a series of made up usernames previously, can referring to them truly be said to be doxxing? Not that I’m suggesting that you’re an expert or anything.
Normally, no. But if one of the the previous usernames points to a meatspace identity, then yes.
World This Weekend just devoted the full half hour to Northern Ireland. Which was simultaneously both refreshing and thoroughly depressing.
And? Do they have any idea what is happening next? My guess is that the DUP will take their ball away and stop Stormount from sitting. Which is indeed depressing.
From what Edwin Poots was saying, they are threatening a total non co-operation with any of the terms of the GFA. Basically, they want the protocol binned and a series of re-runs of elections till they rightfully win. Meanwhile. The Health Service, in particular, is in the toilet and no decisions on that, or much else can be made. The Alliance want the GFA re-negotiated too.
End compulsory power sharing, and the DUP can go into opposition if they wish.
Or cut off the salaries of people who refuse to sit.
Your last sentence really is the only answer. However. Shinners can hardly moan about that kind of behaviour. Nor indeed the voters who keep endorsing it tbh.
Comments
It's word against word, effectively, and they just want to cover themselves
You could not make this up
If Starmer gets a FPN then he should resign .
Yes, there was his fury at the trial and all that, but as your last line indicates, his plan following that did not exactly build on a solid foundation.
Just realised we haven’t heard from SAGE or iSAGE for months. Thank fuck. Wankers
That’s my Take of the Day from the confident position of my Kusadasi swimming pool
Starmers main appeal is being not Johnson . As in his brand relies on being dull but sincere and honest . If that’s trashed then there’s nowhere to hide .
DUP doubling down.
@StillWaters here is how it looks on my laptop, was on my phone before. My apologies for an honest mistake
The reason I say that is because the rules were stupid and breaking them was easy to do, I did plenty of times and I'm sure you did too. The difference is that neither of us voted for the rules and didn't make a big song and dance over sticking to them either (well I didn't).
In an ideal scenario Keir resigns and makes Boris' position as PM untenable and forces the Tory MPs to remove him, after the poor set of local election results the appetite to keep him on has diminished significantly.
Left-wing politics is essentially about unity, and nationalism is essentially about division.
Now it's a bit more complicated than that, there are times when nationalism encourages unity on a small scale, but to a first-order approximation I think it's right.
Interesting: we start talking about indyref for the first time in ages and a poll comes along.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-gives-first-minister-impetus-for-fresh-independence-push-as-55-back-referendum-within-five-years-59jfkzx70
55% want referendum within 5 years, and the actual yes: no is 49/51 - a dead heat at present within MOE.
https://twitter.com/PeterArnottGlas/status/1523224757302448129?s=20&t=g06JBWppu0jV2eiHaCQMJQ
On a related point I did ask the question yesterday as to whether we can do something about the blockade on Odessa? It's not just an economic disaster for Ukraine but a potential food crisis for the world. What would be the problem with Nato ships escorting commercial vessels out of the area?
a) You can automate the time these posts get sent out with apps like tweetdeck
b) I doubt Starmer sends his own tweets anyway.
As to the day's work - I think it was mainly in the Hull area. That was a good day's work then - the council has just fallen to Liberal Dems.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61272553
I'm just saying, there does seem to be some evidence of work going on post the meal.
45% don’t want to think about a vote at all
This is nowhere near enough for sturgeon to go to Westminster - or the people
As I said: it’s an impasse. And it hasn’t been changed by covid or Brexit - amazingly. Nor by the passage of time and NO voters “dying off”
The only thing that can change this is a change of mind at Westminster
The next development will be the publication (or not) of the legal advice by 10 June. I'm curious as to whether that has implications for SG work on a referendum. I presume not, as referendums are not legally binding and so preparatory work is not unlawful as result?
If Johnson says no then I can't see any way for things to progress. And the closer we come to a Labour government at Westminster....
Unless the person in question has evidence to back up their "to the best of my knowledge" (if they do hand it over to the Police) and Starmer is finished.
For me this is two things: if Starmer is innocent, stay. If he is fined, he must go and there is simply no question in my mind about that.
If there is, that person is arguably the most powerful political mover in the UK atm
(Unless we get Black Swan like a disaster at Faslane, or the discovery of Mithril in the Cairngorms).
Wonder if NI goings on will have an impact?
Which was simultaneously both refreshing and thoroughly depressing.
Well done to them, these things make a massive difference to those in Ukraine, just as our forces fly out entertainers to overseas deployed troops to boost morale.
Get networking!
A cunning PM might then say: Enough of this bollocks, we cannot have the UK perpetually menaced. Let’s have a vote and end this.
Very risky. That’s what Cameron tried to do over the EU and got the wrong result. But I can see it happening. I can’t see any other route for the foreseeable
Barring a black swan of course
Not much off War I reckon.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=children+of+the+disappeared+argentina+U2&docid=608018093545772565&mid=59AC1BD52C183EAF999959AC1BD52C183EAF9999&view=detail&FORM=VIRE&msclkid=c452d0afcecc11ecbaca4d6cf6897121
No one jumps to mind.
Also, nobody will do blockade running if the USN won't and they look supremely disinterested with the nearest ship being USNS Trenton at Souda Bay.
Even if it is on topic.
Goes off in search of @Cyclefree .
Basically, they want the protocol binned and a series of re-runs of elections till they rightfully win.
Meanwhile. The Health Service, in particular, is in the toilet and no decisions on that, or much else can be made.
The Alliance want the GFA re-negotiated too.
Just do what the Russians allegedly did, and just send another nation's ships into the danger area to 'find' the mines. Since we're decent people we won't make civilian ships do it; the Russians can use theirs as part of the peace settlement.
What's to lose? There'll be more dive sites for the Ukrainians to use.
But to be serious for a moment, there's always the problem of getting ships to the area. I cannot see the Turks letting NATO ships in and banning Russian ones.
If they did not exist then it is automatically "reasonably necessary" to have the food independent of whether there was any work afterwards.
If they do exist then it is not proof that there was an event, but it does require proof that work continued during/afterwards. I don't think you can rely on the schedule to proof it was "reasonably necessary".
With the caveat that this is all bollocks, the police shouldn't be getting involved in either the Downing Street or the Durham events and it's all about the politics.
PS: I also would not have the time, I spend enough hours working at something I like to spend the rest on the horror of politics.
At least the governance of the Province bit of it.
The strike on the Admiral Makrov pushed back the Russian naval-based air cover
The Ukrainians then used TB2 to strike at the island
I think they have denied it to Russia rather than retaken it. But that's an important strategic location to deny to the enemy.
Nato ships can't get into the Black Sea as they can't pass through the Straits unless they have a home port there
Although I'm unsure why they'd send in sf to rescue people from an island where there are no enemy troops.
I think it's weaker than "some evidence"... may be "early indications"
Or cut off the salaries of MLA's who refuse to sit.
However. Shinners can hardly moan about that kind of behaviour.
Nor indeed the voters who keep endorsing it tbh.