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Hunt moves to favourite in next CON leader betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,162
edited May 2022 in General
imageHunt moves to favourite in next CON leader betting – politicalbetting.com

Johnson’s position as PM is looking increasingly precarious there’s been a fair bit of betting activity on the next CON leader market.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited April 2022
    FPT- Carnforth queried re extent of Disney special district powers now revoked on account of woke.

    Check out the district's wiki page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District

    EDIT - Refuse as matter of principle to be first, until Mickey Mouse is given his day in kangaroo court.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    FPT- Carnforth queried re extent of Disney special district powers now revoked on account of woke.

    Check out the district's wiki page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District

    EDIT - Refuse as matter of principle to be first, until Mickey Mouse is given his day in kangaroo court.

    Me posting a 3am UK time time gives a great advantage to those on the West Coast of the US to be first. For you it is only 7pm in the evening.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891

    FPT- Carnforth queried re extent of Disney special district powers now revoked on account of woke.

    Check out the district's wiki page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District

    EDIT - Refuse as matter of principle to be first, until Mickey Mouse is given his day in kangaroo court.

    Me posting a 3am UK time time gives a great advantage to those on the West Coast of the US to be first. For you it is only 7pm in the evening.
    Some of us are studying the form for the last day of the jumps season, after rewatching A Very English Scandal. It is a lot better than I remember from first time round.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    FPT- Carnforth queried re extent of Disney special district powers now revoked on account of woke.

    Check out the district's wiki page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District

    EDIT - Refuse as matter of principle to be first, until Mickey Mouse is given his day in kangaroo court.

    Me posting a 3am UK time time gives a great advantage to those on the West Coast of the US to be first. For you it is only 7pm in the evening.
    True enough. Yet when YOUR OWN SON takes advantage of the same longitudinal advantage, do you protest?

    I don't think so!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    FPT- Carnforth queried re extent of Disney special district powers now revoked on account of woke.

    Check out the district's wiki page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District

    EDIT - Refuse as matter of principle to be first, until Mickey Mouse is given his day in kangaroo court.

    Me posting a 3am UK time time gives a great advantage to those on the West Coast of the US to be first. For you it is only 7pm in the evening.
    Some of us are studying the form for the last day of the jumps season, after rewatching A Very English Scandal. It is a lot better than I remember from first time round.
    "Bunnies can and will go to France" was actually secret code for ""Go and prepare for government".
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891
    Jeremy Hunt. PPE. Junior doctors. Saudi/Yemen.

    Hunt was minister overseeing the Olympics, and Boris was Mayor overseeing the Olympics.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,648
    Jeremy Hunt seems perfectly placed to take the Tories into opposition.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 2022
    Penny Mordaunt is the real star in that pack imho. She's definitely not in the Boris club. But she's female and I don't think Tory MPs are ready for another one after their culling of Theresa May.

    If they do replace Boris then I suspect the tories will lurch further to the right, which will take them out of power for even longer.

    Ben Wallace would be William Hague all over again.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    p.s. good morning everyone! And good night to the west coast.

    xx
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 2022
    If the Conservatives are going to do this then they need to get on with it. In-fighting parties don't do well at the ballot box but they would have about 2 years to settle down, which is enough time. They would also have to try and deal with the Daily Mail and Daily Express who are obsessed with the brilliance of Boris: flying in the face of the contrary evidence which voters now know.

    I still don't underestimate Johnson's capacity to try and ride this out. He might even doing something truly escalatory in Ukraine as a last resort to save his own skin. But the more Boris Johnson stays, the more of a liability he becomes to them.

    The real killer for Johnson's hopes is the way Labour now lead on the economy. This is the editorial in today's i: https://inews.co.uk/opinion/editor/boris-johnson-is-spooked-by-polls-showing-the-tories-are-no-longer-trusted-on-the-economy-1590813

    The tories have stuffed up. Splurging money on the country's credit card (typical Johnson), in totally unaccountable ways whilst raising the cost of living through higher taxation. Economically Boris Johnson has behaved like a profligate Socialist.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Disneyworld is no longer ruled by Mickey Mouse. As of today, Goofy has taken over.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/22/desantis-disney-special-status-dont-say-gay-00027302

    Personally am AGAINST special districts of the type created for fiscal benefit of Disney Corp back when Disneyworld was constructed. Clear however that Gov. De Santis is NOT opposed to the principle, just to corporations OR people who won't knuckle under.

    Huey Long without his charm, comic relief OR true populism in genuinely striving (and scheming) comfort the afflicted . . . and afflict the comfortable.

    Of course motive behind EVERYTHING De Santis does these days is 2024 presidential election.

    Shows amazing "development" of American politics since 2016, that a leading contender for the Republican nomination believes that one key means of winning over the GOP faithful and getting himself elected POTUS, is by kicking Mickey Mouse's big fat ass up and down Main Street, USA

    Technically, the Reedy Creek Improvement District is only dissolved in 15 months time.

    Which is designed to allow Disney and the State of Florida to find a compromise. De Santis doesn't really give a shit about Disney, and certainly doesn't want to assume $1.5bn of debt. But he does want a victory.

    At some point in the next year and a bit, it will all be forgotten.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    Good morning, everyone.

    Turns out I have an old bet at 19 (tipped by Mr. Royale) on Hunt, so I wouldn't be disappointed if he got the gig. Don't believe he will, though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    The German argument over helping Ukraine is getting interesting.

    https://twitter.com/AlexLuck9/status/1517564363598876672
    It appears German industry has on Thursday formally lodged a request for approval to export 100 Marder IFV with the German Ministry for Economic Affairs, which submitted it to the security committee of the German government (paywalled article)...
    Scholz of course can simply deny the request, so this move by industry seems mostly aimed at putting the government in Berlin further on the (public) spot for objecting to the transfer of armored vehicles.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 2022

    Good morning, everyone.

    Turns out I have an old bet at 19 (tipped by Mr. Royale) on Hunt, so I wouldn't be disappointed if he got the gig. Don't believe he will, though.

    I cashed out on Sunak when he was at peak power. I love it when that happens.

    I have a dilemma at the moment. I'm green on Macron on anything above 55%. I've been offered a cash-out which will basically double my stakes.

    But should I be greedy and hold on in case he sneaks over 60%? If he does, I win big. There's always the chance he gets under 55% in which case I win zilch.

    Decisions decisions.

    p.s. a deluge of biblical proportions across some of France tomorrow. No idea if and how that might affect things though?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    Ms. Heathener, I'm pretty poorly qualified for commenting on leadership elections (I am green on the next PM one but only because of Mr. Roberts' excellent Sunak tip) but generally have finished behind with them.

    Personally, I'd hold on.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    F1: no tips on practice/sprint race nonsenses:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2022/04/imola-pre-qualifyingsprint-race.html

    Qualifying was comical, but it did vindicate my decision early on to ensure I had a book to read in case of red flags.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Good morning all. Pleasant morning here, and the forecast is good. There's cricket to watch at our local club this afternoon, too, and there's some very nice bitter in the bar.

    On topic, our PM doesn't 'do' leaving gracefully; I'm quite sure he won't take any hints and resign, and so he'll have to be forced out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    F1: no tips on practice/sprint race nonsenses:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2022/04/imola-pre-qualifyingsprint-race.html

    Qualifying was comical, but it did vindicate my decision early on to ensure I had a book to read in case of red flags.

    Mercedes are completely lost at the moment.
    … Toto Wolff revealed that George Russell’s Mercedes suffered so severely from porpoising on the straight at Imola in practice that it broke a floor stay designed to increase the rigidity of the car’s floor.

    Mercedes have struggled most visibly from the bouncing phenomenon experienced by 2022 ground effect F1 cars and are still developing solutions to the problem.

    “We had George bouncing so much that he broke the stay, actually, on the floor,” Wolff explained to Sky. “You can’t drive here, you have to lift on the straight.”

    Asked how the effect would impact on drivers Russell and Lewis Hamilton physically, Wolff said he did not know. “I don’t know, but I think they are trained,” he said.

    “I have never experienced in my life bouncing like this, but it’s clearly not drive-able.”…
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 2022

    Ms. Heathener, I'm pretty poorly qualified for commenting on leadership elections (I am green on the next PM one but only because of Mr. Roberts' excellent Sunak tip) but generally have finished behind with them.

    Personally, I'd hold on.

    Thanks MD. Much appreciated & I think you're correct.

    x
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891
    The Telegraph reports that France and Germany sold Russia arms despite an EU embargo after the 2014 annexation of Crimea.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/22/exclusive-france-germany-evaded-arms-embargo-sell-weapons-russia/ (£££)
  • Morning all! I have come out strongly on two fronts over the last few days:
    1) Boris is toast, and
    2) Watch Hunt.

    Glad to see there is now some momentum behind Hunt who is the obvious candidate when you decide you need to erase Chibnall-era Who Boris.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited April 2022
    Johnson is going nowhere.

    According to the last two polls, the Tories are just 6 points behind. Obviously Tory performance at the locals will be watched closely but my personal thinking is that they will outperform expectations especially here in London.

    What's keeping Tory support up? It's Brexit and all its associated wrapping. The Tories need to keep Brexit as a live issue - the cultists will fall into line if that's the case.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    Mr. B, interesting. It certainly looks awful and may explain why they could go for a new spec entirely rather than trying to fix the current car.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    Mr. Pioneers, whoa there, crazy horse!

    I know Boris Johnson's an incompetent, short-sighted, self-obsessed buffoon unworthy of high office and a disgrace to the nation, but he's not as bad as Chibnall's buggering up for Doctor Who lore.

    On the plus side, very glad I emotionally disengaged from the show a while ago. As a child, it was one of my favourites.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    The HuffPost UK Saturday read on where Tory MPs are now after another grim week for Boris Johnson.

    One former cabinet minister said: "A lot of people feel trapped in a nightmare that doesn’t end and they don’t see how it can."

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-partygate-rishi-sunak_uk_62611d56e4b0dc5d7b6aaf54
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375
    Scott_xP said:

    The HuffPost UK Saturday read on where Tory MPs are now after another grim week for Boris Johnson.

    One former cabinet minister said: "A lot of people feel trapped in a nightmare that doesn’t end and they don’t see how it can."

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-partygate-rishi-sunak_uk_62611d56e4b0dc5d7b6aaf54

    If they're so stupid they can't see how to end it, they deserve to lose.
  • ***Legendary modesty klaxon***

    I did post this last Sunday.

    You can get odds of around 9/1 on Hunt, I’m on odds of around 20/1 but I still think there’s a smidgen of value at 9/1 but I expect some of you will disagree.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/04/17/is-rishi-sunak-the-new-theresa-may/
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Scott_xP said:

    The HuffPost UK Saturday read on where Tory MPs are now after another grim week for Boris Johnson.

    One former cabinet minister said: "A lot of people feel trapped in a nightmare that doesn’t end and they don’t see how it can."

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-partygate-rishi-sunak_uk_62611d56e4b0dc5d7b6aaf54

    It's a nightmare that they have foisted on the whole country. They knew this man was wholly unsuited to lead Britain, and yet they chose him anyway. They deserve everything that's coming to them, and more.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 2022
    Quincel said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The HuffPost UK Saturday read on where Tory MPs are now after another grim week for Boris Johnson.

    One former cabinet minister said: "A lot of people feel trapped in a nightmare that doesn’t end and they don’t see how it can."

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-partygate-rishi-sunak_uk_62611d56e4b0dc5d7b6aaf54

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.
    And it's remarkable when you consider that after defenestrating the by then deeply unpopular Margaret Thatcher at the end of 1990, they went on to win the General Election 18 months later under John Major. In that 1992 election the Conservatives polled more votes than at any time in British electoral history before or since.

    So they could do it. And they could still pull off a win.

    Why don't they? Are they held under some spell? Mesmerised by Boris? Terrified of his sting? In thrall to the fatheaded journalists at the Mail and Express?

    Don't they realise that they could yet win the next GE if they boot out the man who is now a liability? The current state of the polls is very similar to autumn 1990 in the run up to Thatcher's removal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1992_United_Kingdom_general_election#1990

    If this were industry Boris would have been kicked out months ago. Maybe that's the source of the problem: lots of these MPs would never cut it in the real world of business.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Quincel said:

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.

    ydoethur said:

    If they're so stupid they can't see how to end it, they deserve to lose.

    But while a consensus seems to be forming among Tory backbenchers that the PM must go, they cannot agree on when it should happen, how it can be done and who should replace him.

    What they need to do is think like BoZo.

    Seize the opportunity of Bozexit. Head for the sunlit uplands of a post BoZo World, freed from the shackles of his incompetence and mendacity.

    Take Back Control...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    murali_s said:

    my personal thinking is that they will outperform expectations

    Good luck with that thinking
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375
    edited April 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Quincel said:

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.

    ydoethur said:

    If they're so stupid they can't see how to end it, they deserve to lose.

    But while a consensus seems to be forming among Tory backbenchers that the PM must go, they cannot agree on when it should happen, how it can be done and who should replace him.
    1) now
    2) VoNC
    3) Pretty much anyone who isn't Rees-Mogg, Dorries, Truss, Raab or Patel would be better.

    Happy to help.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375

    Have we done this? This is truly frightening on so many levels.

    Nadine Dorries has done it again.

    The culture secretary prompted ridicule after featuring in a fellow Tory MP’s TikTok to explain her job.

    But her phrasing raised a few quizzical eyebrows, and lent weight to the suggestion she struggles to fully grasp her brief.

    In the clip shared by Luke Evans, she says the department of culture, media and sport is responsible for broadband, which means “you can downstream your movies” at home. People typically download movies.

    One of her goals is to “make the internet in the UK the safest internet in the world”. The internet doesn’t really have national boundaries.

    Dorries also fronts the Whitehall department in charge of sport, which involves “tennis pitches” (they’re usually referred to as courts), which is one of the places where you can “exercise your sports”.

    Not bad for 42 seconds of work.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nadine-dorries-downstream-your-movies_uk_6262d753e4b0dc52f4965119

    No wonder Nadine Dorries is such an enthusiastic supporter of Boris Johnson, she is so dense that light bends around her.

    When she said 'downstream your movies' did she think movies were all about current affairs?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Quincel said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The HuffPost UK Saturday read on where Tory MPs are now after another grim week for Boris Johnson.

    One former cabinet minister said: "A lot of people feel trapped in a nightmare that doesn’t end and they don’t see how it can."

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-partygate-rishi-sunak_uk_62611d56e4b0dc5d7b6aaf54

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.
    You are probably right, but, I suggest, somewhat less than 50/50. These thoughts must be in people's minds.
    1. VONC is called. Johnson won't just go.
    2. VONC succeeds; Johnson loses, goes to HMQ and asks for an election
    3. VONC fails; Johnson purges one or two ringleaders
    4. VONC isn't called; ringleaders purged.

    Purge: lose Whip at least for a while. 'Word gets out' that association with them is also toxic.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 2022



    No wonder Nadine Dorries is such an enthusiastic supporter of Boris Johnson, she is so dense that light bends around her.

    :smiley:
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,380

    Mr. Pioneers, whoa there, crazy horse!

    I know Boris Johnson's an incompetent, short-sighted, self-obsessed buffoon unworthy of high office and a disgrace to the nation, but he's not as bad as Chibnall's buggering up for Doctor Who lore.

    On the plus side, very glad I emotionally disengaged from the show a while ago. As a child, it was one of my favourites.

    Last weeks episode was everything you’d expect from this era. Sadly. I’ve been watching since Jon Pertwee’s first season and it has known it’s ups and downs but it is incredibly down now. Chibnall has said after the next episode he won’t return and RTD is likely to ignore his takes on the show.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 2022

    Quincel said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The HuffPost UK Saturday read on where Tory MPs are now after another grim week for Boris Johnson.

    One former cabinet minister said: "A lot of people feel trapped in a nightmare that doesn’t end and they don’t see how it can."

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-partygate-rishi-sunak_uk_62611d56e4b0dc5d7b6aaf54

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.
    You are probably right, but, I suggest, somewhat less than 50/50. These thoughts must be in people's minds.
    1. VONC is called. Johnson won't just go.
    2. VONC succeeds; Johnson loses, goes to HMQ and asks for an election
    3. VONC fails; Johnson purges one or two ringleaders
    4. VONC isn't called; ringleaders purged.

    Purge: lose Whip at least for a while. 'Word gets out' that association with them is also toxic.
    I'm sure this has been discussed but I don't think 2. is viable. The Queen won't play along with Boris Johnson's games. If the Conservatives announce that they will hold a leadership election there's no way she will get into the constitutional crisis of a dissolution.

    If he loses a VONC of his MPs he's out.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,380
    If Boris stays PM long enough to change the method of funding of the BBC that’s fine by me,
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Jeremy Hunt. He of the jr doctors contracts fiasco. The burying of Exercise Cygnus. Chinese Japanese dirty knees what are these. Jeremy C… oops who said that!

    He’s a walking disaster area with slick Pr that has caused collective amnesia in those afflicted with BDS. If he’s the answer then you’re asking the wrong question.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    Have we done this? This is truly frightening on so many levels.

    Nadine Dorries has done it again.

    The culture secretary prompted ridicule after featuring in a fellow Tory MP’s TikTok to explain her job.

    But her phrasing raised a few quizzical eyebrows, and lent weight to the suggestion she struggles to fully grasp her brief.

    In the clip shared by Luke Evans, she says the department of culture, media and sport is responsible for broadband, which means “you can downstream your movies” at home. People typically download movies.

    One of her goals is to “make the internet in the UK the safest internet in the world”. The internet doesn’t really have national boundaries.

    Dorries also fronts the Whitehall department in charge of sport, which involves “tennis pitches” (they’re usually referred to as courts), which is one of the places where you can “exercise your sports”.

    Not bad for 42 seconds of work.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nadine-dorries-downstream-your-movies_uk_6262d753e4b0dc52f4965119

    No wonder Nadine Dorries is such an enthusiastic supporter of Boris Johnson, she is so dense that light bends around her.

    I think someone shared this last night. I didn't comment on it because it is so cringe that I actually felt sorry for Nadine Dorries and thought that drawing attention to it further would be in bad taste.
  • Apparently there is still debate over "He's Toast".

    Its very simple. Thursday saw the complete and final collapse of "just bluster your way through". The line of amoral Tory MPs and ministers babbling their way through the latest version of Save Big Dog is of the past. A few will still pledge loyalty to Chibnall Boris but most accept the gig is up.

    Less than 2 weeks now to the local elections. A pocket of Tory resistance here and there won't remove the clear message that losing a pile of councillors and some councils will deliver to MPs. We hear that post-dated letters to Mrs Brady are already written.

    And then the Met tell us how many more FPNs he has been served. Though we may get double bubble as these apparently are going to be unofficially leaked during the campaign as well. Then we get the unredacted Sue Grey report. Then we get the shame of a sitting PM being torn apart by the Privileges Committee.

    And I do mean torn apart. Don't worry about the Tory majority. The notion that they would try and bluster their way through this ended on Thursday. The weight of evidence will be simply crushing. The Big Dog himself may continue to bluster. But its lonely at the top and more so when the moves against you are clearly happening and support is simply drifting away in preparation for the imminent regime change.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    I think someone shared this last night. I didn't comment on it because it is so cringe that I actually felt sorry for Nadine Dorries and thought that drawing attention to it further would be in bad taste.

    Eating anus is no longer the most embarrassing thing she has done on camera...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,190
    It's just a Facebook poll but Boris seems to have loads of support in Retford. Realignment here to stay I think
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Taz said:

    If Boris stays PM long enough to change the method of funding of the BBC that’s fine by me,

    You would prop up this incompetent dishonest buffoon in order to end your licence fee? Somewhat of a loss of perspective I feel.

    The BBC funding does need changing imho. That's not a reason to keep in post the worst prime minister many of us can remember.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,648

    Apparently there is still debate over "He's Toast".

    Its very simple. Thursday saw the complete and final collapse of "just bluster your way through". The line of amoral Tory MPs and ministers babbling their way through the latest version of Save Big Dog is of the past. A few will still pledge loyalty to Chibnall Boris but most accept the gig is up.

    Less than 2 weeks now to the local elections. A pocket of Tory resistance here and there won't remove the clear message that losing a pile of councillors and some councils will deliver to MPs. We hear that post-dated letters to Mrs Brady are already written.

    And then the Met tell us how many more FPNs he has been served. Though we may get double bubble as these apparently are going to be unofficially leaked during the campaign as well. Then we get the unredacted Sue Grey report. Then we get the shame of a sitting PM being torn apart by the Privileges Committee.

    And I do mean torn apart. Don't worry about the Tory majority. The notion that they would try and bluster their way through this ended on Thursday. The weight of evidence will be simply crushing. The Big Dog himself may continue to bluster. But its lonely at the top and more so when the moves against you are clearly happening and support is simply drifting away in preparation for the imminent regime change.


    He has two things going for him. Despite all that Boris has a special pull with a certain group of electors. Secondly there is no one senior on the Tory benches he hasn’t damaged in some way.

    So for all his travails, many Tory MPs will view him as a vote winner regardless of the local elections.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375

    Quincel said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The HuffPost UK Saturday read on where Tory MPs are now after another grim week for Boris Johnson.

    One former cabinet minister said: "A lot of people feel trapped in a nightmare that doesn’t end and they don’t see how it can."

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-partygate-rishi-sunak_uk_62611d56e4b0dc5d7b6aaf54

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.
    You are probably right, but, I suggest, somewhat less than 50/50. These thoughts must be in people's minds.
    1. VONC is called. Johnson won't just go.
    2. VONC succeeds; Johnson loses, goes to HMQ and asks for an election
    3. VONC fails; Johnson purges one or two ringleaders
    4. VONC isn't called; ringleaders purged.

    Purge: lose Whip at least for a while. 'Word gets out' that association with them is also toxic.
    Hi OKC, I think you misunderstand. There is a 'motion of no confidence' in the House of Commons, which has to be tabled by the Leader of the Opposition, and a 'vote of no confidence' which the Tories hold among themselves. If the latter is held and he loses, he is automatically removed as leader of the party. He cannot therefore go to the Queen and ask for a dissolution as it would not help him. In any case, the 1922 committee could decide to remove him immediately and install an acting leader if they wished or if he decided to do crazy stuff.

    As for 'purging the ringleaders,' the process is anonymous. Sure, some have stuck their necks out publicly, but by trying to wreak revenge on them he would quickly guarantee that he would be toppled one way or another. It's why May didn't remove the whip from him, although with hindsight that was an error on her part.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Pulpstar said:

    It's just a Facebook poll

    There will always be some support. Even Jeremy Corbyn led Labour to 32% last time around.

    But Facebook is the last place you should turn to for a true litmus test, closely followed by Mumsnet and Twitter.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Jonathan said:

    Apparently there is still debate over "He's Toast".

    Its very simple. Thursday saw the complete and final collapse of "just bluster your way through". The line of amoral Tory MPs and ministers babbling their way through the latest version of Save Big Dog is of the past. A few will still pledge loyalty to Chibnall Boris but most accept the gig is up.

    Less than 2 weeks now to the local elections. A pocket of Tory resistance here and there won't remove the clear message that losing a pile of councillors and some councils will deliver to MPs. We hear that post-dated letters to Mrs Brady are already written.

    And then the Met tell us how many more FPNs he has been served. Though we may get double bubble as these apparently are going to be unofficially leaked during the campaign as well. Then we get the unredacted Sue Grey report. Then we get the shame of a sitting PM being torn apart by the Privileges Committee.

    And I do mean torn apart. Don't worry about the Tory majority. The notion that they would try and bluster their way through this ended on Thursday. The weight of evidence will be simply crushing. The Big Dog himself may continue to bluster. But its lonely at the top and more so when the moves against you are clearly happening and support is simply drifting away in preparation for the imminent regime change.

    , many Tory MPs will view him as a vote winner regardless of the local elections.
    It was the same myopia they had towards Margaret Thatcher.

    It does take time for the penny to drop.

    Which would be fine by me. If he leads them into the next General Election they will get hammered. And between now and then won't be pretty. This last week was shambolic.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Congratulations.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Crikey that sounds like a 'marish situation but many many congratulations on the happy outcome.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Congratulations, I nearly fainted in theatre when Fox jr was born by C section. I had forgotton what it was like. Hope all well with the family.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    WooHoo! Congratulations!

    Hope mother and child are okay after all of that. And life gets a little different from now on... :)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Quincel said:

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.

    ydoethur said:

    If they're so stupid they can't see how to end it, they deserve to lose.

    But while a consensus seems to be forming among Tory backbenchers that the PM must go, they cannot agree on when it should happen, how it can be done and who should replace him.
    1) now
    2) VoNC
    3) Pretty much anyone who isn't Rees-Mogg, Dorries, Truss, Raab or Patel would be better.

    Happy to help.
    That makes sense from outside the cult. Is it possible to put together a case for retaining BoJo where the holes are reasonably well hidden? Hmm.

    1 It could be that only Boris holds the coalition together. Anyone else causes either the Faragists to drift back to RefUK (of Hunt wins) or the remaining centrists to go to the Lib Dems (if it's, say, Patel). Possible exceptions are Truss and Gove.

    2. It could be that, while Brexit is done, it's still in peril. Some Conservatives would be happy with a start of a drift back to BEANO, as long as we stay formally out of the political system, but many wouldn't.

    3. There is a tidal wave of sewage about to hit the government, and it would be better for Boris to take the brunt of it. Then let someone relatively clean take over. That would argue for a summer '23 leadership election and a spring '24 GE, because that's the earliest the economy comes right.

    4. Boris hasn't failed enough yet. In the same way that many Tories held a flame for Maggie long after 1990, a cult of Bros could warp the party for decades to come.

    5. There's nobody better, because Boris has engineered it that way. Hence the non-crazy talk of Hunt and Tughendhat.

    None of this outweighs Johnson being a disaster for the party and country who should have never been let in and certainly shouldn't kept on, but I can see why people might want it to be plausible. Because:

    6. Big Dog has a scary reputation. Shoot and miss, and it's off to the outer darkness with you.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Congratulations. Time to binge watch This is Going to Hurt :wink:
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Dancer,

    I quite liked 'Dr Who' when it first appeared. but I lost interest when William Hartnell left. I realised then it was only a children's programme.

    As for BoJo, he's the same, but he does ignite fury in some. Get real, people, he's not the spawn of Satan, not worse than Pol Pot, Hitler, or Mao. But he is a very naughty boy.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    Mr. Taz, the enjoyment I've got from it recently has been the shitposting and pisstakes online. Only saw the first two episodes of the incumbent, and that proved a sound decision.

    If RTD has the nerve to do it there's a perfect retcon opportunity, though. The Master's a known liar and the Matrix is just a fancy computer, so you could obviously falsify nonsense in it.

    That being said, the overblown hero-worship of the Doctor has existed in all of New Who, (RTD got the ball rolling with the Time War, which pointlessly removed the Time Lords and made it so excuses were necessary to constantly reintroduce the daleks).
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Congratulations to you and your partner! Becoming a parent is the greatest joy and privilege that life has to offer. Make sure your partner gets plenty of rest.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    Mr. Pulpstar, congratulations :)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Many congrats!!!
  • Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Congratulations!!!!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Disneyworld is no longer ruled by Mickey Mouse. As of today, Goofy has taken over.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/22/desantis-disney-special-status-dont-say-gay-00027302

    Personally am AGAINST special districts of the type created for fiscal benefit of Disney Corp back when Disneyworld was constructed. Clear however that Gov. De Santis is NOT opposed to the principle, just to corporations OR people who won't knuckle under.

    Huey Long without his charm, comic relief OR true populism in genuinely striving (and scheming) comfort the afflicted . . . and afflict the comfortable.

    Of course motive behind EVERYTHING De Santis does these days is 2024 presidential election.

    Shows amazing "development" of American politics since 2016, that a leading contender for the Republican nomination believes that one key means of winning over the GOP faithful and getting himself elected POTUS, is by kicking Mickey Mouse's big fat ass up and down Main Street, USA

    Technically, the Reedy Creek Improvement District is only dissolved in 15 months time.

    Which is designed to allow Disney and the State of Florida to find a compromise. De Santis doesn't really give a shit about Disney, and certainly doesn't want to assume $1.5bn of debt. But he does want a victory.

    At some point in the next year and a bit, it will all be forgotten.
    I'm filling this under "Trump will be reined in by GOP Congress" as a prediction.

    GOP state Govenors have shown they are willing to inflict massive economic damage on their states in their quest for culture war wins (see Abbot's truck inspections in Texas).

    Until the 2024 GOP Nominee process is underway expect more and more unhinged GOP Gov policies.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    FPT:
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Remainer Hunt? I'll believe that when hell freezes over.
    Remainer Hunt sounds like some dystopian near-future reality TV show. Presented by Nadine Dorries and Mark Francois.

    If Channel 4 had commissioned it as a remake of Treasure Hunt (with Penny Mordaunt in the Anneka Rice role), they wouldn't have been threatened with privatisation.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    edited April 2022
    Jonathan said:

    Apparently there is still debate over "He's Toast".

    Its very simple. Thursday saw the complete and final collapse of "just bluster your way through". The line of amoral Tory MPs and ministers babbling their way through the latest version of Save Big Dog is of the past. A few will still pledge loyalty to Chibnall Boris but most accept the gig is up.

    Less than 2 weeks now to the local elections. A pocket of Tory resistance here and there won't remove the clear message that losing a pile of councillors and some councils will deliver to MPs. We hear that post-dated letters to Mrs Brady are already written.

    And then the Met tell us how many more FPNs he has been served. Though we may get double bubble as these apparently are going to be unofficially leaked during the campaign as well. Then we get the unredacted Sue Grey report. Then we get the shame of a sitting PM being torn apart by the Privileges Committee.

    And I do mean torn apart. Don't worry about the Tory majority. The notion that they would try and bluster their way through this ended on Thursday. The weight of evidence will be simply crushing. The Big Dog himself may continue to bluster. But its lonely at the top and more so when the moves against you are clearly happening and support is simply drifting away in preparation for the imminent regime change.


    He has two things going for him. Despite all that Boris has a special pull with a certain group of electors. Secondly there is no one senior on the Tory benches he hasn’t damaged in some way.

    So for all his travails, many Tory MPs will view him as a vote winner regardless of the local elections.
    I'm not convinced anything changed on Thursday except Steve Baker is definitely in the VONC camp. We've seen the pattern before: when something new comes up or there is a bad parliamentary debate, it all looks and sounds like finally the MPs are moving. We get all sorts of anonymous quotes from sources and whatsapp saying this is it/we can't go on like this etc.

    And then they go back to their constituency for the weekend and we reset again. I presume because they find out that the Johnson cult is alive and well amongst their activists.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Quincel said:

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.

    ydoethur said:

    If they're so stupid they can't see how to end it, they deserve to lose.

    But while a consensus seems to be forming among Tory backbenchers that the PM must go, they cannot agree on when it should happen, how it can be done and who should replace him.
    1) now
    2) VoNC
    3) Pretty much anyone who isn't Rees-Mogg, Dorries, Truss, Raab or Patel would be better.

    Happy to help.
    That makes sense from outside the cult. Is it possible to put together a case for retaining BoJo where the holes are reasonably well hidden? Hmm.

    1 It could be that only Boris holds the coalition together. Anyone else causes either the Faragists to drift back to RefUK (of Hunt wins) or the remaining centrists to go to the Lib Dems (if it's, say, Patel). Possible exceptions are Truss and Gove.

    2. It could be that, while Brexit is done, it's still in peril. Some Conservatives would be happy with a start of a drift back to BEANO, as long as we stay formally out of the political system, but many wouldn't.

    3. There is a tidal wave of sewage about to hit the government, and it would be better for Boris to take the brunt of it. Then let someone relatively clean take over. That would argue for a summer '23 leadership election and a spring '24 GE, because that's the earliest the economy comes right.

    4. Boris hasn't failed enough yet. In the same way that many Tories held a flame for Maggie long after 1990, a cult of Bros could warp the party for decades to come.

    5. There's nobody better, because Boris has engineered it that way. Hence the non-crazy talk of Hunt and Tughendhat.

    None of this outweighs Johnson being a disaster for the party and country who should have never been let in and certainly shouldn't kept on, but I can see why people might want it to be plausible. Because:

    6. Big Dog has a scary reputation. Shoot and miss, and it's off to the outer darkness with you.
    1) You mean, because Truss and Gove would cause everyone to drift off?

    2) I suppose that might be true even if it's wrong, because they are obsessives after all.

    3) He will anyway, but more to the point, somebody else might be seen to be doing something about it. Johnson has lost whatever passed for his mind and the government is drifting.

    4) If they think that, let's hope the Tories come third at the next election. At least Thatcher was a serious politician with remarkable talent and a track record of achievement, not a buffoon who has failed disastrously in every role he's ever held.

    5) Since anyone would be better with the few exceptions I've noted, any member of the cult who thinks otherwise should be hurriedly deselected on the grounds of insanity.

    6) All the more reason to get rid of him before the destruction becomes irreversible.

    So if your statements on the views of the cult are correct, we have a problem far greater than Johnson. Which may well be true, of course.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 2022
    CD13 said:



    As for BoJo [...] he does ignite fury in some.

    It's the sycophantic way some people can't see the fault in his stars that ignites the fury in me, even more than the clot himself: the Nadine Dorries wonderstruck look, like a female bird of paradise entranced by a male bird's dance. I expect it is partly because he has a famously huge penis.

    Once you see through the magician's sleight of hand, you realise that there's nothing beneath. A song and dance showman who steps forward night after night to trip the light fantastic.

    And with that dizzying mixture of metaphors I bid you all g'day.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,246
    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The HuffPost UK Saturday read on where Tory MPs are now after another grim week for Boris Johnson.

    One former cabinet minister said: "A lot of people feel trapped in a nightmare that doesn’t end and they don’t see how it can."

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-partygate-rishi-sunak_uk_62611d56e4b0dc5d7b6aaf54

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.
    You are probably right, but, I suggest, somewhat less than 50/50. These thoughts must be in people's minds.
    1. VONC is called. Johnson won't just go.
    2. VONC succeeds; Johnson loses, goes to HMQ and asks for an election
    3. VONC fails; Johnson purges one or two ringleaders
    4. VONC isn't called; ringleaders purged.

    Purge: lose Whip at least for a while. 'Word gets out' that association with them is also toxic.
    Hi OKC, I think you misunderstand. There is a 'motion of no confidence' in the House of Commons, which has to be tabled by the Leader of the Opposition, and a 'vote of no confidence' which the Tories hold among themselves. If the latter is held and he loses, he is automatically removed as leader of the party. He cannot therefore go to the Queen and ask for a dissolution as it would not help him. In any case, the 1922 committee could decide to remove him immediately and install an acting leader if they wished or if he decided to do crazy stuff.

    As for 'purging the ringleaders,' the process is anonymous. Sure, some have stuck their necks out publicly, but by trying to wreak revenge on them he would quickly guarantee that he would be toppled one way or another. It's why May didn't remove the whip from him, although with hindsight that was an error on her part.
    You're overlooking a possibility here that is so outlandish it must surely have occurred to the PM. In the event of losing a VOC he just digs in his heels and refuses to resign. The Tory party could proceed with an election if they want but Johnson is PM until he isn't, HMQ has no power to dismiss him and the Conservative Party has no constitutional significance. In such a situation Starmer could move a motion of no confidence in HoC but it would be against HMG, not against Johnson personally, and it remains to be seen how the PCP would respond. Or Starmer could resist the temptation and leave the Tories swinging on the gibbet.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891

    Jonathan said:

    Apparently there is still debate over "He's Toast".

    Its very simple. Thursday saw the complete and final collapse of "just bluster your way through". The line of amoral Tory MPs and ministers babbling their way through the latest version of Save Big Dog is of the past. A few will still pledge loyalty to Chibnall Boris but most accept the gig is up.

    Less than 2 weeks now to the local elections. A pocket of Tory resistance here and there won't remove the clear message that losing a pile of councillors and some councils will deliver to MPs. We hear that post-dated letters to Mrs Brady are already written.

    And then the Met tell us how many more FPNs he has been served. Though we may get double bubble as these apparently are going to be unofficially leaked during the campaign as well. Then we get the unredacted Sue Grey report. Then we get the shame of a sitting PM being torn apart by the Privileges Committee.

    And I do mean torn apart. Don't worry about the Tory majority. The notion that they would try and bluster their way through this ended on Thursday. The weight of evidence will be simply crushing. The Big Dog himself may continue to bluster. But its lonely at the top and more so when the moves against you are clearly happening and support is simply drifting away in preparation for the imminent regime change.


    He has two things going for him. Despite all that Boris has a special pull with a certain group of electors. Secondly there is no one senior on the Tory benches he hasn’t damaged in some way.

    So for all his travails, many Tory MPs will view him as a vote winner regardless of the local elections.
    I'm not convinced anything changed on Thursday except Steve Baker is definitely in the VONC camp. We've seen the pattern before: when something new comes up or there is a bad parliamentary debate, it all looks and sounds like finally the MPs are moving. We get all sorts of anonymous quotes from sources and whatsapp saying this is it/we can't go on like this etc.

    And then they go back to their constituency for the weekend and we reset again. I presume because they find out that the Johnson cult is alive and well amongst their activists.

    Other way round, reportedly. Boris was safe while MPs were at Westminster but during recess they went back to their constituencies to discover activists and voters furious with the Prime Minister.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The HuffPost UK Saturday read on where Tory MPs are now after another grim week for Boris Johnson.

    One former cabinet minister said: "A lot of people feel trapped in a nightmare that doesn’t end and they don’t see how it can."

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-partygate-rishi-sunak_uk_62611d56e4b0dc5d7b6aaf54

    There's a whole psychology PhD to be written about why MPs often feel so helpless despite literally holding the power in their hands. It's not even like the bar is that high. 50-odd MPs signing a letter would end this one way or another.
    You are probably right, but, I suggest, somewhat less than 50/50. These thoughts must be in people's minds.
    1. VONC is called. Johnson won't just go.
    2. VONC succeeds; Johnson loses, goes to HMQ and asks for an election
    3. VONC fails; Johnson purges one or two ringleaders
    4. VONC isn't called; ringleaders purged.

    Purge: lose Whip at least for a while. 'Word gets out' that association with them is also toxic.
    Hi OKC, I think you misunderstand. There is a 'motion of no confidence' in the House of Commons, which has to be tabled by the Leader of the Opposition, and a 'vote of no confidence' which the Tories hold among themselves. If the latter is held and he loses, he is automatically removed as leader of the party. He cannot therefore go to the Queen and ask for a dissolution as it would not help him. In any case, the 1922 committee could decide to remove him immediately and install an acting leader if they wished or if he decided to do crazy stuff.

    As for 'purging the ringleaders,' the process is anonymous. Sure, some have stuck their necks out publicly, but by trying to wreak revenge on them he would quickly guarantee that he would be toppled one way or another. It's why May didn't remove the whip from him, although with hindsight that was an error on her part.
    You're overlooking a possibility here that is so outlandish it must surely have occurred to the PM. In the event of losing a VOC he just digs in his heels and refuses to resign. The Tory party could proceed with an election if they want but Johnson is PM until he isn't, HMQ has no power to dismiss him and the Conservative Party has no constitutional significance. In such a situation Starmer could move a motion of no confidence in HoC but it would be against HMG, not against Johnson personally, and it remains to be seen how the PCP would respond. Or Starmer could resist the temptation and leave the Tories swinging on the gibbet.
    Your possibility falls, because under the rules he doesn't resign if he loses a VONC, he is automatically removed. If he plays ball, he gets to stay PM until a successor is elected. If not, he can just be expelled from the party for a breach of rules and that is that as far his government is concerned.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Congrats! Your life has changed forever - largely for the good! :)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    How many Tory MPs are seeing letters like this...

    A letter to the local Conservative Party Chair…. https://twitter.com/steam_simon/status/1517424319651061761/photo/1
  • Jonathan said:

    Apparently there is still debate over "He's Toast".

    Its very simple. Thursday saw the complete and final collapse of "just bluster your way through". The line of amoral Tory MPs and ministers babbling their way through the latest version of Save Big Dog is of the past. A few will still pledge loyalty to Chibnall Boris but most accept the gig is up.

    Less than 2 weeks now to the local elections. A pocket of Tory resistance here and there won't remove the clear message that losing a pile of councillors and some councils will deliver to MPs. We hear that post-dated letters to Mrs Brady are already written.

    And then the Met tell us how many more FPNs he has been served. Though we may get double bubble as these apparently are going to be unofficially leaked during the campaign as well. Then we get the unredacted Sue Grey report. Then we get the shame of a sitting PM being torn apart by the Privileges Committee.

    And I do mean torn apart. Don't worry about the Tory majority. The notion that they would try and bluster their way through this ended on Thursday. The weight of evidence will be simply crushing. The Big Dog himself may continue to bluster. But its lonely at the top and more so when the moves against you are clearly happening and support is simply drifting away in preparation for the imminent regime change.


    He has two things going for him. Despite all that Boris has a special pull with a certain group of electors. Secondly there is no one senior on the Tory benches he hasn’t damaged in some way.

    So for all his travails, many Tory MPs will view him as a vote winner regardless of the local elections.
    I'm not convinced anything changed on Thursday except Steve Baker is definitely in the VONC camp. We've seen the pattern before: when something new comes up or there is a bad parliamentary debate, it all looks and sounds like finally the MPs are moving. We get all sorts of anonymous quotes from sources and whatsapp saying this is it/we can't go on like this etc.

    And then they go back to their constituency for the weekend and we reset again. I presume because they find out that the Johnson cult is alive and well amongst their activists.

    Other way round, reportedly. Boris was safe while MPs were at Westminster but during recess they went back to their constituencies to discover activists and voters furious with the Prime Minister.
    And as I said above they were furious with a single FPN and a single proven lie to parliament. Stack the FPNs and lies up over the next few weeks, slam the Grey report on the desk and gasp as she describes a "we do what we want" culture in Downing Street and then we get the photos...

    He's Toast.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,380
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    If Boris stays PM long enough to change the method of funding of the BBC that’s fine by me,

    You would prop up this incompetent dishonest buffoon in order to end your licence fee? Somewhat of a loss of perspective I feel.

    The BBC funding does need changing imho. That's not a reason to keep in post the worst prime minister many of us can remember.
    What, Cameron ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891
    edited April 2022
    The Telegraph claims Boris had been intending to use Brexit and the NIP move attention on from Partygate.

    The threat [of more FPNs] comes as Mr Johnson is gearing up for a new Brexit fight in an attempt to reset his premiership following the fallout from his first “partygate” fine. These plans may be overshadowed by any further police sanction.

    The Prime Minister is set to announce a new bill in the Queen’s Speech on May 10 which will hand ministers powers to overrule parts of the Northern Ireland Protocol, which has governed customs arrangements between Great Britain and the province since Brexit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/15/100-government-buildings-close-civil-servants-shun-return-office/ (£££)

    Hmm. May the 10th. There's a date with historical resonances.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    Mr. JohnL, perhaps, but we've seen this play before. It'll be nice if they change the ending, but the troops have been marched up the hill and back down again many a time.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576
    Heathener said:

    CD13 said:



    As for BoJo [...] he does ignite fury in some.

    It's the sycophantic way some people can't see the fault in his stars that ignites the fury in me, even more than the clot himself: the Nadine Dorries wonderstruck look, like a female bird of paradise entranced by a male bird's dance. I expect it is partly because he has a famously huge penis.

    Once you see through the magician's sleight of hand, you realise that there's nothing beneath. A song and dance showman who steps forward night after night to trip the light fantastic.

    And with that dizzying mixture of metaphors I bid you all g'day.
    "ignites the fury in me"

    I think you may need to calm down a little.

    I could pose it the other way as well: far too many people are utterly unwilling to see anything good about him; and anything the government gets right is not down to him in any way. And anyone pointing out that he has got something right become seen as fans of his, however much they criticise other aspects.

    Johnson is deeply flawed, but he is not the devil incarnate that some like to make him out to be.

    Reserve your fury for the people who really deserve it - like people not wearing masks in shops. ;)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Jonathan said:

    Apparently there is still debate over "He's Toast".

    Its very simple. Thursday saw the complete and final collapse of "just bluster your way through". The line of amoral Tory MPs and ministers babbling their way through the latest version of Save Big Dog is of the past. A few will still pledge loyalty to Chibnall Boris but most accept the gig is up.

    Less than 2 weeks now to the local elections. A pocket of Tory resistance here and there won't remove the clear message that losing a pile of councillors and some councils will deliver to MPs. We hear that post-dated letters to Mrs Brady are already written.

    And then the Met tell us how many more FPNs he has been served. Though we may get double bubble as these apparently are going to be unofficially leaked during the campaign as well. Then we get the unredacted Sue Grey report. Then we get the shame of a sitting PM being torn apart by the Privileges Committee.

    And I do mean torn apart. Don't worry about the Tory majority. The notion that they would try and bluster their way through this ended on Thursday. The weight of evidence will be simply crushing. The Big Dog himself may continue to bluster. But its lonely at the top and more so when the moves against you are clearly happening and support is simply drifting away in preparation for the imminent regime change.


    He has two things going for him. Despite all that Boris has a special pull with a certain group of electors. Secondly there is no one senior on the Tory benches he hasn’t damaged in some way.

    So for all his travails, many Tory MPs will view him as a vote winner regardless of the local elections.
    I'm not convinced anything changed on Thursday except Steve Baker is definitely in the VONC camp. We've seen the pattern before: when something new comes up or there is a bad parliamentary debate, it all looks and sounds like finally the MPs are moving. We get all sorts of anonymous quotes from sources and whatsapp saying this is it/we can't go on like this etc.

    And then they go back to their constituency for the weekend and we reset again. I presume because they find out that the Johnson cult is alive and well amongst their activists.

    Other way round, reportedly. Boris was safe while MPs were at Westminster but during recess they went back to their constituencies to discover activists and voters furious with the Prime Minister.
    Yep I agree with this.

    I don't think some on here realise how furious people are and not just furious but also hurt.

    We went through hell during those lockdowns. To think that tosser was partying during our suffering is unbelievable.

    And as for 'that' picture of The Queen in Westminster Abbey ...

  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Heathener said:

    murali_s said:

    my personal thinking is that they will outperform expectations

    Good luck with that thinking
    It's in the interest of progressives to keep Johnson in post as long as possible ideally all the way out to GE24.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    CD13 said:



    As for BoJo [...] he does ignite fury in some.

    It's the sycophantic way some people can't see the fault in his stars that ignites the fury in me, even more than the clot himself: the Nadine Dorries wonderstruck look, like a female bird of paradise entranced by a male bird's dance. I expect it is partly because he has a famously huge penis.

    Once you see through the magician's sleight of hand, you realise that there's nothing beneath. A song and dance showman who steps forward night after night to trip the light fantastic.

    And with that dizzying mixture of metaphors I bid you all g'day.

    I think you may need to calm down a little.
    Ah yes, that well-known trope of ageing right wing tory men: 'Calm down dear.'

  • Scott_xP said:

    How many Tory MPs are seeing letters like this...

    A letter to the local Conservative Party Chair…. https://twitter.com/steam_simon/status/1517424319651061761/photo/1

    And one of the comments downthread:

    "Our conservative local councillor is wonderful, kind and helpful. What I can't understand is why he still attaches himself to a party that is without shame. He deserves my vote but he will not be getting it."

    This is the damage we can expect a week on Thursday. Remember that Tory voters don't have to vote against the party to do the damage, just simply stay at home in protest.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Scott_xP said:

    How many Tory MPs are seeing letters like this...

    A letter to the local Conservative Party Chair…. https://twitter.com/steam_simon/status/1517424319651061761/photo/1

    And one of the comments downthread:

    "Our conservative local councillor is wonderful, kind and helpful. What I can't understand is why he still attaches himself to a party that is without shame. He deserves my vote but he will not be getting it."

    This is the damage we can expect a week on Thursday. Remember that Tory voters don't have to vote against the party to do the damage, just simply stay at home in protest.
    Yep there are a few old tory men on here with their heads stuck in the sand who don't realise just how angry and hurt so many of us out there are.

    You will.
  • The Telegraph claims Boris had been intending to use Brexit and the NIP move attention on from Partygate.

    The threat [of more FPNs] comes as Mr Johnson is gearing up for a new Brexit fight in an attempt to reset his premiership following the fallout from his first “partygate” fine. These plans may be overshadowed by any further police sanction.

    The Prime Minister is set to announce a new bill in the Queen’s Speech on May 10 which will hand ministers powers to overrule parts of the Northern Ireland Protocol, which has governed customs arrangements between Great Britain and the province since Brexit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/15/100-government-buildings-close-civil-servants-shun-return-office/ (£££)

    Hmm. May the 10th. There's a date with historical resonances.

    Do have to laugh. "Can't remove the Big Dog. War on. Need to be working internationally, forging alliances, not focusing on internal stuff" vs "Lets blow up the TCA and start a trade war with the EU"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955

    Ms. Heathener, I'm pretty poorly qualified for commenting on leadership elections (I am green on the next PM one but only because of Mr. Roberts' excellent Sunak tip) but generally have finished behind with them.

    Personally, I'd hold on.

    Mr Roberts' tip? How very dare you!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    CD13 said:



    As for BoJo [...] he does ignite fury in some.

    It's the sycophantic way some people can't see the fault in his stars that ignites the fury in me, even more than the clot himself: the Nadine Dorries wonderstruck look, like a female bird of paradise entranced by a male bird's dance. I expect it is partly because he has a famously huge penis.

    Once you see through the magician's sleight of hand, you realise that there's nothing beneath. A song and dance showman who steps forward night after night to trip the light fantastic.

    And with that dizzying mixture of metaphors I bid you all g'day.

    I think you may need to calm down a little.
    Ah yes, that well-known trope of ageing right wing tory men: 'Calm down dear.'

    Not really. You're the one who talks about having fury ignited in them. And BTW, I don't particularly think of myself as 'right-wing', or a 'Tory'.

    And BTW, snipping what I said like that feels a little naughty, as you removed some context.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    FLSOJ shall cleave unto FLSOJ.


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Congratulations
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Do have to laugh. "Can't remove the Big Dog. War on. Need to be working internationally, forging alliances, not focusing on internal stuff" vs "Lets blow up the TCA and start a trade war with the EU"

    "We need to blow up the NIP because I signed a shit deal"

    "Please don't sack me"

    Oh, wait...
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    The Telegraph claims Boris had been intending to use Brexit and the NIP move attention on from Partygate.

    The threat [of more FPNs] comes as Mr Johnson is gearing up for a new Brexit fight in an attempt to reset his premiership following the fallout from his first “partygate” fine. These plans may be overshadowed by any further police sanction.

    The Prime Minister is set to announce a new bill in the Queen’s Speech on May 10 which will hand ministers powers to overrule parts of the Northern Ireland Protocol, which has governed customs arrangements between Great Britain and the province since Brexit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/15/100-government-buildings-close-civil-servants-shun-return-office/ (£££)

    Hmm. May the 10th. There's a date with historical resonances.

    It really is desperate stuff from the clown . If Brexit was still going to be the most important issue for Leave voters the Lib Dems wouldn’t have picked up North Shropshire .
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Taz said:

    Have we done this? This is truly frightening on so many levels.

    Nadine Dorries has done it again.

    The culture secretary prompted ridicule after featuring in a fellow Tory MP’s TikTok to explain her job.

    But her phrasing raised a few quizzical eyebrows, and lent weight to the suggestion she struggles to fully grasp her brief.

    In the clip shared by Luke Evans, she says the department of culture, media and sport is responsible for broadband, which means “you can downstream your movies” at home. People typically download movies.

    One of her goals is to “make the internet in the UK the safest internet in the world”. The internet doesn’t really have national boundaries.

    Dorries also fronts the Whitehall department in charge of sport, which involves “tennis pitches” (they’re usually referred to as courts), which is one of the places where you can “exercise your sports”.

    Not bad for 42 seconds of work.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nadine-dorries-downstream-your-movies_uk_6262d753e4b0dc52f4965119

    No wonder Nadine Dorries is such an enthusiastic supporter of Boris Johnson, she is so dense that light bends around her.

    I’m sorry but I just think this is nothing. She seems to have mixed up streaming and downloading and called a tennis court a pitch. Big deal. This just strikes me as a needless cheap dig. People do it all the time.
    People do but maybe the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media, Sport and Prostate Massages for Thick Leaver Twats shouldn't.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576

    Scott_xP said:

    How many Tory MPs are seeing letters like this...

    A letter to the local Conservative Party Chair…. https://twitter.com/steam_simon/status/1517424319651061761/photo/1

    And one of the comments downthread:

    "Our conservative local councillor is wonderful, kind and helpful. What I can't understand is why he still attaches himself to a party that is without shame. He deserves my vote but he will not be getting it."

    This is the damage we can expect a week on Thursday. Remember that Tory voters don't have to vote against the party to do the damage, just simply stay at home in protest.
    Labour was in a similar situation three years ago under Corbyn. The damage being done to the Conservatives may be greater, especially as they are in power, but a new leader with a firm broom could turn it around within a parliament. Or not. ;)

    But IMO Brexit is the biggest problem the Conservatives face. It seems to still be a major factor within the party, and that means they're more likely to pick one of the hardliners that will not resonate with the wider public. The Conservative Party should see Brexit as a done deal, and get on with everything else that faces the country. Especially as Europe as a whole is not faced by the spectre of a real evil to the east.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Congratulations. For me it was the first time I realised there really was someone I would sacrifice my life for. I was scared of the responsibility of having children, but the joy outweighs it many times over.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, I'm now a Dad. Had the longest hour of my life when my better half was taken to theatre for emergency c section tho.

    Congratulations
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Heathener said:

    CD13 said:



    As for BoJo [...] he does ignite fury in some.

    It's the sycophantic way some people can't see the fault in his stars that ignites the fury in me, even more than the clot himself: the Nadine Dorries wonderstruck look, like a female bird of paradise entranced by a male bird's dance. I expect it is partly because he has a famously huge penis.

    Once you see through the magician's sleight of hand, you realise that there's nothing beneath. A song and dance showman who steps forward night after night to trip the light fantastic.

    And with that dizzying mixture of metaphors I bid you all g'day.
    "ignites the fury in me"

    I think you may need to calm down a little.

    I could pose it the other way as well: far too many people are utterly unwilling to see anything good about him; and anything the government gets right is not down to him in any way. And anyone pointing out that he has got something right become seen as fans of his, however much they criticise other aspects.

    Johnson is deeply flawed, but he is not the devil incarnate that some like to make him out to be.

    Reserve your fury for the people who really deserve it - like people not wearing masks in shops. ;)
    You need to calm down the hyperbole. Who has said...anywhere .., that Johnson is the Devil incarnate?

    Johnson is however a self-absorbed, self-serving Charlatan whose only motivation, it would seem, is personal aggrandisement at the expense of everyone and everything else.

    This would be fine if we lived in Russia, but we don't.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Jonathan said:

    Apparently there is still debate over "He's Toast".

    Its very simple. Thursday saw the complete and final collapse of "just bluster your way through". The line of amoral Tory MPs and ministers babbling their way through the latest version of Save Big Dog is of the past. A few will still pledge loyalty to Chibnall Boris but most accept the gig is up.

    Less than 2 weeks now to the local elections. A pocket of Tory resistance here and there won't remove the clear message that losing a pile of councillors and some councils will deliver to MPs. We hear that post-dated letters to Mrs Brady are already written.

    And then the Met tell us how many more FPNs he has been served. Though we may get double bubble as these apparently are going to be unofficially leaked during the campaign as well. Then we get the unredacted Sue Grey report. Then we get the shame of a sitting PM being torn apart by the Privileges Committee.

    And I do mean torn apart. Don't worry about the Tory majority. The notion that they would try and bluster their way through this ended on Thursday. The weight of evidence will be simply crushing. The Big Dog himself may continue to bluster. But its lonely at the top and more so when the moves against you are clearly happening and support is simply drifting away in preparation for the imminent regime change.


    He has two things going for him. Despite all that Boris has a special pull with a certain group of electors. Secondly there is no one senior on the Tory benches he hasn’t damaged in some way.

    So for all his travails, many Tory MPs will view him as a vote winner regardless of the local elections.
    I'm not convinced anything changed on Thursday except Steve Baker is definitely in the VONC camp. We've seen the pattern before: when something new comes up or there is a bad parliamentary debate, it all looks and sounds like finally the MPs are moving. We get all sorts of anonymous quotes from sources and whatsapp saying this is it/we can't go on like this etc.

    And then they go back to their constituency for the weekend and we reset again. I presume because they find out that the Johnson cult is alive and well amongst their activists.

    Other way round, reportedly. Boris was safe while MPs were at Westminster but during recess they went back to their constituencies to discover activists and voters furious with the Prime Minister.
    This.

    He is toast.

    The only question is how burned the toast will be when it finally comes out the toaster and gets binned. And how long it will take to get the toaster working again.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited April 2022
    Hunt may be likely to get into the final 2 with MPs again but he is extremely unlikely to win the Conservative members vote given he only got 33% with them last time. Wallace, who tops the latest Conhome Cabinet net satisfaction ratings is a far more likely successor.

    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2022/04/our-cabinet-league-table-sunak-plunges-to-third-from-bottom.html

    I would also not be quite so dismissive of Boris, he is still the greatest Tory election winner since Thatcher and by far the most charismatic figure in UK politics today and on Ukraine he is a big figure on the world stage. Unless Labour build a really big poll lead and the Tories are trounced in the local elections, Tory MPs will be reluctant to remove him
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    FPT:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Remainer Hunt? I'll believe that when hell freezes over.
    Remainer Hunt sounds like some dystopian near-future reality TV show. Presented by Nadine Dorries and Mark Francois.

    If Channel 4 had commissioned it as a remake of Treasure Hunt (with Penny Mordaunt in the Anneka Rice role), they wouldn't have been threatened with privatisation.
    Harry could have flown her round Britain in a WAH-64. Television gold. I would have downstreamed it.
This discussion has been closed.