Nick Palmer - civilians don't give a toss and just want to live a decent life?
I still feel you don't really get it. We're not talking about Alsace Lorraine! Maybe in Crimea where the population might prefer to be part of Russia but as for the rest of the country? Donetsk and Lukansk have been turned into warlord cities on purpose. Putin set out to punish a western oriented Ukraine. If you want a decent life in Ukraine you probably don't want to be living under Russian rule.
Ukrainians appear to be increasingly anti-Russian and not just anti-Putin in their mindset. Why? They feel that if you give Russians a washing machine and decent roads they'll accept anything from their leaders. I don't know if that is truly fair and Russia may have been infanitilised by their oil and gas economy but Ukrainians want something else. FREEDOM. And they are willing to fight for it. They have a functioning, if somewhat chaotic democracy that does work in kicking out failing politicians. No President has been re-elected in the time that Vladimir Putin has been in charge in Russia. Given the centralisation of power around himself and the lack of any succession planning goodness knows what happens to Russia when he finally departs. Ukraine has a free media and a determination to deal with corruption. It is an absolute tragedy that this should all be threatened because it doesn't suit the world's number one mafioso.
I'm surprised that someone who grew up in the time of the cold war doesn't understand the ideological angle to all this. Zelensky wasn't just a comedian. He starred in a TV show mocking the corruption of Ukrainian politics (and Putin too). He got 72% of the vote! It's all staring at you in great big neon lights. A political chasm has opened up along Europe's longest border. Ukrainians idea of a decent is very different to Mr Putin's.
Yes, exactly this. This is not abstract, it's material. Some wars are petty, elitist struggles, but not this one. This one is about good and evil. And Putin is evil.
Another problem with the compromised settlement approach. There is already talk in Russia that they may need to accept that the re-incorporation of Ukraine may take 30-40 years. In other words Russian imperialists are playing the long game. The idea that this all ends when both sides agree on territory is extremely dubious. A western oriented Ukraine is an existential threat to Putin. Claiming a land corridor to Crimea won't change that I'm afraid. Further attempts to undermine the government in Kiev, make it a failed state or even take more territory would be inevitable.
Last December while walking through Wells town centre I met a man taking his alpaca for a walk
I've seen ferrets on leads, but the one that surprised me recently was a bloke strolling along with an owl.
We used to walk our ferret round Greenwich back in the day.
The man with the owl was as I was coming into Twickenham, where I'd also seen the ferrets, and something else that amused me was seeing a "missing parrot" poster on a lamppost, which was seemingly serious and not a joke.
~Whilst all of you who are on the side of the angels in the war root out evil doers and wrong-uns (Leon's list earlier LOL) I have just stuck £100 on Labour taking Barnet at 5/6 with ladbrokes.
You know whose probably most affected by the sinking of the Moskva? I would say China. Another example of how this war is shaking up the strategic calculus and will, hopefully, make countries think twice about starting wars in the future.
The "China will just walk in and take over Taiwan in 7 hours" thought line has taken a real hammering this conflict.
Not just the military aspects.
Analysts have been noting how taken aback the CCP powers-that-be have been by the western economic response, especially the voluntary aspects from private companies who have walked from Ru.
Is gaining Taiwan worth the economic collapse that would surely severely jeopardise their regime? Unlike Ru, China is holding to one party rule because it seems to work economically in that millions have become rich and middle class.
Yes, that's right. I can't see the slightest net benefit for China in invading Taiwan and I don't think they've seriously contemplated it for a long time. I hesitate to be dogmatic about how bonkers it would be as I though Putin was just willy-waving and he wan't, but has there actually been any Chinese declaration of intent to take over ("liberate") Taiwan in the last 20 years?
There was a speech in 2019 where he said "we should not allow this problem to be passed down from one generation to the next", which is pretty much exactly what Putin has been saying about Ukraine, and "we make no promise to renounce the use of force and reserve the option of taking all necessary means". An invasion would be way they're going to get Taiwan back since they blew up "One Country Two Systems" in Hong Kong. So the position kind of is that they're going to invade.
I don't know enough about war to say what would happen if they tried, and seeing how people thought Ukraine would turn out compared to how it actually turned out has to make you suspicious of people who think they can predict what's going to happen in war. I expect Xi is better informed and more circumspect than Putin, but I can't say that for sure, and nobody really knows what's in his head.
On the other hand, invading over 100 miles of open ocean that has a dozen Taiwanese submarines in is not for the faint of heart.
And you can't really mount a surprise invasion - this would be like D-Day, but over a much wider body of water and where the defenders have satellite imagery.
Edit to add: and the Taiwanese military is not lacking in Western kit: they have significant numbers of the latest generation of F16s and Dassaults.
I think one would have to be madder than Mad Jack McMad to invade Taiwan. I think the Chinese would prefer to go for a mix of intimidation and bribery to regain that island.
Possibly, but the prize is an historical legacy as being the Reunifier of All China. Saying it would be costly and not pay for itself is not the point, any more than Scottish separatists want what they want because they think it will increase their pay packets
Most separatists manage to convince themselves that freedom and wealth are benevolently intertwined. Biafra? Catalonia? Singapore? Taiwan? I've even heard it suggested that an independent Scotland in full enjoyment of its oil reserves would be richer than before.
Madness. You won’t believe this but some UK separatists promoted the idea that Brexit would make every man jack of HMS Global Britain richer than before.
Another factory that could hit the Tories hard is their unveiling of the amazing direct investment to replace the money lost when we left the EU. As an example Teesside has seen a magnificent rise from £73m before to an unbelievable £46m. Cornwall has lost tens of millions.
The Tories are of course doing their best to talk up the amazing funds - FORTY SIX MILLION? WOW!. But even stupid voters can add. And can see that instead of levelling up things are getting worse.
Ultimately when you promise the moon on a stick there is a moment where delivery is required.
Serious cuts for regional economic development in the north, with the Shared Prosperity Fund failing to match previous funds as promised 📉
This is a difficult one for Labour so as not to look like they’re overly criticizing Brexit but just to highlight no 10s broken promises .
Doesn’t seem difficult at all to me. No one’s proposing to reverse Brexit, so pointing out the failures and broken promises is just pointing out the failures and broken promises. Better still would be some positive suggestions.
BTW I hope everyone here is following Mike Martin on twitter, it's the perfect combination for pb people because it's like 75% military strategy currently focused for obvious reasons on Ukraine, but the other 25% is all about the LibDems Winning Here, where Here is Tunbridge Wells.
It strikes me that the Rwandan deal could backfire on the government. It seems pretty half-baked, and is reminiscent of a similar 'oven-ready' deal a couple of years back, also announced for political expediency. It will only succeed if it reduces the number of cross-channel refugees significantly, and that depends on effective implementation - highly doubtful via the Home Office.
It seems to be assumed that this red meat policy was designed to distract from partygate. I suspect that the timing of the announcement was more to do with a) distracting from the large number of migrant crossings we'll get this week now the weather has turned, and b) distracting from the significant travel problems expected over this weekend.
I haven't commented on the substance of the Rwandan policy itself, because I find every single aspect of it beyond the pale. Very little makes me angry - this did.
You prefer to encourage people to close on dangerous rafts and are willing to accept the inevitable casualties?
You’re assuming that this policy will do any such thing - and also that it’s even viable. You prefer gesture politics.
FWIW, were it my brief, which it isn’t and never will be, I’d do a deal with the French to take more migrants/refugees (the distinction is not at all a clear one) in return for their dealing with the problem at their end - on a strict performance basis.
I think this government absurdly ungenerous in its current attitudes to would be refugees.
You know whose probably most affected by the sinking of the Moskva? I would say China. Another example of how this war is shaking up the strategic calculus and will, hopefully, make countries think twice about starting wars in the future.
The "China will just walk in and take over Taiwan in 7 hours" thought line has taken a real hammering this conflict.
Not just the military aspects.
Analysts have been noting how taken aback the CCP powers-that-be have been by the western economic response, especially the voluntary aspects from private companies who have walked from Ru.
Is gaining Taiwan worth the economic collapse that would surely severely jeopardise their regime? Unlike Ru, China is holding to one party rule because it seems to work economically in that millions have become rich and middle class.
Yes, that's right. I can't see the slightest net benefit for China in invading Taiwan and I don't think they've seriously contemplated it for a long time. I hesitate to be dogmatic about how bonkers it would be as I though Putin was just willy-waving and he wan't, but has there actually been any Chinese declaration of intent to take over ("liberate") Taiwan in the last 20 years?
There was a speech in 2019 where he said "we should not allow this problem to be passed down from one generation to the next", which is pretty much exactly what Putin has been saying about Ukraine, and "we make no promise to renounce the use of force and reserve the option of taking all necessary means". An invasion would be way they're going to get Taiwan back since they blew up "One Country Two Systems" in Hong Kong. So the position kind of is that they're going to invade.
I don't know enough about war to say what would happen if they tried, and seeing how people thought Ukraine would turn out compared to how it actually turned out has to make you suspicious of people who think they can predict what's going to happen in war. I expect Xi is better informed and more circumspect than Putin, but I can't say that for sure, and nobody really knows what's in his head.
On the other hand, invading over 100 miles of open ocean that has a dozen Taiwanese submarines in is not for the faint of heart.
And you can't really mount a surprise invasion - this would be like D-Day, but over a much wider body of water and where the defenders have satellite imagery.
Edit to add: and the Taiwanese military is not lacking in Western kit: they have significant numbers of the latest generation of F16s and Dassaults.
I think one would have to be madder than Mad Jack McMad to invade Taiwan. I think the Chinese would prefer to go for a mix of intimidation and bribery to regain that island.
Possibly, but the prize is an historical legacy as being the Reunifier of All China. Saying it would be costly and not pay for itself is not the point, any more than Scottish separatists want what they want because they think it will increase their pay packets
Most separatists manage to convince themselves that freedom and wealth are benevolently intertwined. Biafra? Catalonia? Singapore? Taiwan? I've even heard it suggested that an independent Scotland in full enjoyment of its oil reserves would be richer than before.
Madness. You won’t believe this but some UK separatists promoted the idea that Brexit would make every man jack of HMS Global Britain richer than before.
Last December while walking through Wells town centre I met a man taking his alpaca for a walk
I've seen ferrets on leads, but the one that surprised me recently was a bloke strolling along with an owl.
I once saw a man walking his parrots in Brompton cemetery.
Thought I had a pic on Facebook..
Beautiful plumage, ain't it?
Just letting you know, we have done stations of the cross, I am now eating hot cross buns with my dad WATCHING Yorkshire cricket on telly on a live YouTube feed my dad has subscribed to!
Two England stars batting sensibly at the moment, deficit a mere 174 and King Harry Brook in next 😀
An “emergency decision” to fund the £400,000 repair of a private road at risk of slipping into a beck was made behind closed doors at City of York Council.
Springfield Close, in the ward of Heworth Without, is a private, unadopted street accessible to the public and the collapse of its supporting wall could lead to flooding downstream, according to City of York Council.
The council’s policy is not to maintain private roads. But a senior council officer last week gave the go-ahead for the authority to pay for its repair.
Corporate director of place, Neil Ferris, said the council did not want residents living on private roads elsewhere in the city to think they could rely on similar treatment.
But York Labour have criticised the move and implied the decision was a “special case” because it is in ruling councillor Nigel Ayre’s ward.
Last December while walking through Wells town centre I met a man taking his alpaca for a walk
I've seen ferrets on leads, but the one that surprised me recently was a bloke strolling along with an owl.
I once saw a man walking his parrots in Brompton cemetery.
Thought I had a pic on Facebook..
Beautiful plumage, ain't it?
Just letting you know, we have done stations of the cross, I am now eating hot cross buns with my dad WATCHING Yorkshire cricket on telly on a live YouTube feed my dad has subscribed to!
Two England stars batting sensibly at the moment, deficit a mere 174 and King Harry Brook in next 😀
I was just thinking, you must be happy that Yorkshire haven't lost any more wickets this morning. Malan and Lyth looking ominously set. They might even get Yorkshire past the follow on...
~Whilst all of you who are on the side of the angels in the war root out evil doers and wrong-uns (Leon's list earlier LOL) I have just stuck £100 on Labour taking Barnet at 5/6 with ladbrokes.
Were you disappointed not to make the list? You always struck me as far, far too sensible to fall for Putin's guff unlike the others.
Russia needs humiliation: they need to lose in Ukraine, and be seen to lose
This Manichean view of the conflict needs contextualisation. What would such a loss, that would be impossible to obfuscate, look like? Pushing the Russians back to the 2014 border?
You call it a 'Manichean' view. I am usually a shades-of-grey person, but I find it really, really difficult to do anything other than put the Russian regime fully in the 'evil' camp and Ukraine in the 'good' camp.
Do you differ? Do you think the Russian regime are the good guys? Do you think the Ukrainians have brought the death and destruction on themselves? How do you get shades-of-grey out of what Russia has done?
I have here a little list. Of PB-ers who ever-so-slightly want Russia to win, but are just too embarrassed to admit it out loud. You can spot them as they always over-estimate Russia’s military prowess, or they want a “peace now on present borders”, and they are super keen to NOT humiliate Putin. On PB it’s
I have a couple, similarly minded, in my friend/family network
I don’t necessarily condemn them. I quite strongly disagree - but it’s a free country. I just wish they’d be less mealy mouthed sometimes
Sigh. I've spoken at a Ukraine solidarity rally condeming the invasion. I've donated hundreds of pounds to support Western aid. I've repeatedly said here and elsewhere that Putin's behaviour is bonkers czarist imperialism. What do I need to do to avoid the claim that I want Russia to win?
Sure, I remember my mother with affection and she was Russian-born, and I don't think the Ukrainian record is perfect (for the reasons Dura Ace says). But the invasion is criminal lunacy, and it'd be horrrific to see it ending with Russia "winning" and Ukraine conquered and writhing under occupation.
The thing is, in conflicts people tend to become completely black and white. Our side has got to win outright, anything less than that is tantamount to supporting the other side. That thinking is ultimately at the expense of civilians who don't give a toss and simply want to live a decent life. It's the thinking which generates people like Putin, who regard any amount of suffering as OK if they can shift the border from X to Y. But few wars last forever, and in the end a deal short of total victory is usually a good idea.
"What do I need etc"
Stop reading posts by tedious virtue signalling trolls like Leon and Jessop. It's easy!
Being called a 'tedious virtue signalling trolls' by you, Roger, and having your post liked by Nick, has rather made my day. Thanks! I always enjoy a good belly laugh.
It strikes me that the Rwandan deal could backfire on the government. It seems pretty half-baked, and is reminiscent of a similar 'oven-ready' deal a couple of years back, also announced for political expediency. It will only succeed if it reduces the number of cross-channel refugees significantly, and that depends on effective implementation - highly doubtful via the Home Office.
It seems to be assumed that this red meat policy was designed to distract from partygate. I suspect that the timing of the announcement was more to do with a) distracting from the large number of migrant crossings we'll get this week now the weather has turned, and b) distracting from the significant travel problems expected over this weekend.
I haven't commented on the substance of the Rwandan policy itself, because I find every single aspect of it beyond the pale. Very little makes me angry - this did.
You prefer to encourage people to close on dangerous rafts and are willing to accept the inevitable casualties?
You’re assuming that this policy will do any such thing - and also that it’s even viable. You prefer gesture politics.
The tories are obviously trying to ape the Australian 'Sovereign Borders' operation but there a couple of very serious differences that they either don't know about or don't care about or both.
Offshore detention was only one part of the Australian scheme. They also did tow backs to Indonesia. That could be done by towing the refugees west into international waters and letting them go just outside French territorial limits in lifeboats with just enough fuel for France and nowhere else (as the RAN did off the coast of Indonesia). Johnson just doesn't have the guts for that.
The Australians also have a detention centre on Christmas Island which is outside the Australian Migration Zone. So refugees could be scooped up and housed there without recourse to the legal system while awaiting transportation to the penal colonies on Manus and Nauru. There is nowhere analogous to Christmas Island where the refugees can be interned beyond British law.
So its 33% of the Australian solution administered by people with 10% of the competence.
Russia needs humiliation: they need to lose in Ukraine, and be seen to lose
This Manichean view of the conflict needs contextualisation. What would such a loss, that would be impossible to obfuscate, look like? Pushing the Russians back to the 2014 border?
You call it a 'Manichean' view. I am usually a shades-of-grey person, but I find it really, really difficult to do anything other than put the Russian regime fully in the 'evil' camp and Ukraine in the 'good' camp.
Do you differ? Do you think the Russian regime are the good guys? Do you think the Ukrainians have brought the death and destruction on themselves? How do you get shades-of-grey out of what Russia has done?
I have here a little list. Of PB-ers who ever-so-slightly want Russia to win, but are just too embarrassed to admit it out loud. You can spot them as they always over-estimate Russia’s military prowess, or they want a “peace now on present borders”, and they are super keen to NOT humiliate Putin. On PB it’s
I have a couple, similarly minded, in my friend/family network
I don’t necessarily condemn them. I quite strongly disagree - but it’s a free country. I just wish they’d be less mealy mouthed sometimes
Sigh. I've spoken at a Ukraine solidarity rally condeming the invasion. I've donated hundreds of pounds to support Western aid. I've repeatedly said here and elsewhere that Putin's behaviour is bonkers czarist imperialism. What do I need to do to avoid the claim that I want Russia to win?
Sure, I remember my mother with affection and she was Russian-born, and I don't think the Ukrainian record is perfect (for the reasons Dura Ace says). But the invasion is criminal lunacy, and it'd be horrrific to see it ending with Russia "winning" and Ukraine conquered and writhing under occupation.
The thing is, in conflicts people tend to become completely black and white. Our side has got to win outright, anything less than that is tantamount to supporting the other side. That thinking is ultimately at the expense of civilians who don't give a toss and simply want to live a decent life. It's the thinking which generates people like Putin, who regard any amount of suffering as OK if they can shift the border from X to Y. But few wars last forever, and in the end a deal short of total victory is usually a good idea.
A deal short of total victory is diplomacy and what is required in peacetime to prevent war, not during war against existential threats like Putin.
Last December while walking through Wells town centre I met a man taking his alpaca for a walk
I've seen ferrets on leads, but the one that surprised me recently was a bloke strolling along with an owl.
I once saw a man walking his parrots in Brompton cemetery.
Thought I had a pic on Facebook..
Beautiful plumage, ain't it?
Just letting you know, we have done stations of the cross, I am now eating hot cross buns with my dad WATCHING Yorkshire cricket on telly on a live YouTube feed my dad has subscribed to!
Two England stars batting sensibly at the moment, deficit a mere 174 and King Harry Brook in next 😀
I was just thinking, you must be happy that Yorkshire haven't lost any more wickets this morning. Malan and Lyth looking ominously set. They might even get Yorkshire past the follow on...
Another problem with the compromised settlement approach. There is already talk in Russia that they may need to accept that the re-incorporation of Ukraine may take 30-40 years. In other words Russian imperialists are playing the long game. The idea that this all ends when both sides agree on territory is extremely dubious. A western oriented Ukraine is an existential threat to Putin. Claiming a land corridor to Crimea won't change that I'm afraid. Further attempts to undermine the government in Kiev, make it a failed state or even take more territory would be inevitable.
The problem is that Putin has made his intentions clear. It is not just Ukraine; he wants Russia to control, either directly or politically via satellite states, pretty much the entirety of eastern Europe.
This is why so many neighbouring and nearby states (e.g. Poland, Lithuania, Estonia etc) are busy sending kit to Ukraine. They're well aware Putin wants to destroy their democracies.
It's why I argue so strongly (and hopefully mostly politely) against Nick Palmers and Dura_Ace's view on this. Russia will always find a reason, an excuse, for their expansive imperialism. Victim-blaming is just playing into Putin's hands.
Russia needs humiliation: they need to lose in Ukraine, and be seen to lose
This Manichean view of the conflict needs contextualisation. What would such a loss, that would be impossible to obfuscate, look like? Pushing the Russians back to the 2014 border?
You call it a 'Manichean' view. I am usually a shades-of-grey person, but I find it really, really difficult to do anything other than put the Russian regime fully in the 'evil' camp and Ukraine in the 'good' camp.
Do you differ? Do you think the Russian regime are the good guys? Do you think the Ukrainians have brought the death and destruction on themselves? How do you get shades-of-grey out of what Russia has done?
I have here a little list. Of PB-ers who ever-so-slightly want Russia to win, but are just too embarrassed to admit it out loud. You can spot them as they always over-estimate Russia’s military prowess, or they want a “peace now on present borders”, and they are super keen to NOT humiliate Putin. On PB it’s
I have a couple, similarly minded, in my friend/family network
I don’t necessarily condemn them. I quite strongly disagree - but it’s a free country. I just wish they’d be less mealy mouthed sometimes
Sigh. I've spoken at a Ukraine solidarity rally condeming the invasion. I've donated hundreds of pounds to support Western aid. I've repeatedly said here and elsewhere that Putin's behaviour is bonkers czarist imperialism. What do I need to do to avoid the claim that I want Russia to win?
Sure, I remember my mother with affection and she was Russian-born, and I don't think the Ukrainian record is perfect (for the reasons Dura Ace says). But the invasion is criminal lunacy, and it'd be horrrific to see it ending with Russia "winning" and Ukraine conquered and writhing under occupation.
The thing is, in conflicts people tend to become completely black and white. Our side has got to win outright, anything less than that is tantamount to supporting the other side. That thinking is ultimately at the expense of civilians who don't give a toss and simply want to live a decent life. It's the thinking which generates people like Putin, who regard any amount of suffering as OK if they can shift the border from X to Y. But few wars last forever, and in the end a deal short of total victory is usually a good idea.
A deal short of total victory is diplomacy and what is required in peacetime to prevent war, not during war against existential threats like Putin.
I liked Garry Kasparov's point. Meeting evil halfway is still a victory for evil. Sometimes it has to be done like with Stalin in 1945. But we aren't there yet in Ukraine.
Russia needs humiliation: they need to lose in Ukraine, and be seen to lose
This Manichean view of the conflict needs contextualisation. What would such a loss, that would be impossible to obfuscate, look like? Pushing the Russians back to the 2014 border?
You call it a 'Manichean' view. I am usually a shades-of-grey person, but I find it really, really difficult to do anything other than put the Russian regime fully in the 'evil' camp and Ukraine in the 'good' camp.
Do you differ? Do you think the Russian regime are the good guys? Do you think the Ukrainians have brought the death and destruction on themselves? How do you get shades-of-grey out of what Russia has done?
I have here a little list. Of PB-ers who ever-so-slightly want Russia to win, but are just too embarrassed to admit it out loud. You can spot them as they always over-estimate Russia’s military prowess, or they want a “peace now on present borders”, and they are super keen to NOT humiliate Putin. On PB it’s
I have a couple, similarly minded, in my friend/family network
I don’t necessarily condemn them. I quite strongly disagree - but it’s a free country. I just wish they’d be less mealy mouthed sometimes
This is...a bit sinister? "I don't necessarily condemn them...". I wouldn't want to be on a Leon list but I am reassured that I am far to small a fry to be so.
~Whilst all of you who are on the side of the angels in the war root out evil doers and wrong-uns (Leon's list earlier LOL) I have just stuck £100 on Labour taking Barnet at 5/6 with ladbrokes.
Were you disappointed not to make the list? You always struck me as far, far too sensible to fall for Putin's guff unlike the others.
Nah - I am pragmatic though and think a diplomatic solution is needed sooner than later So not sure sinking russian warships whilst understandable is a cause for optimism longer term. As for "lists" it is far better to play the ball not the man and as a anti establishment sort of guy I am always wary of "lists" . Division is never has good as cooperation , good is never pure , evil is a unhelpful label
Moment a confused looking Biden sticks out his hand and appears to shake thin air after falsely claiming in speech that he had also been a 'full professor' at UPenn for four years
In a few years time, I am sure we are going to find out that he really wasn't with most of the time aren't we. Remember they heavily shielded him from normal campaign duties during the campaign under the guise of covid.
Russia needs humiliation: they need to lose in Ukraine, and be seen to lose
This Manichean view of the conflict needs contextualisation. What would such a loss, that would be impossible to obfuscate, look like? Pushing the Russians back to the 2014 border?
You call it a 'Manichean' view. I am usually a shades-of-grey person, but I find it really, really difficult to do anything other than put the Russian regime fully in the 'evil' camp and Ukraine in the 'good' camp.
Do you differ? Do you think the Russian regime are the good guys? Do you think the Ukrainians have brought the death and destruction on themselves? How do you get shades-of-grey out of what Russia has done?
I have here a little list. Of PB-ers who ever-so-slightly want Russia to win, but are just too embarrassed to admit it out loud. You can spot them as they always over-estimate Russia’s military prowess, or they want a “peace now on present borders”, and they are super keen to NOT humiliate Putin. On PB it’s
I have a couple, similarly minded, in my friend/family network
I don’t necessarily condemn them. I quite strongly disagree - but it’s a free country. I just wish they’d be less mealy mouthed sometimes
This is...a bit sinister? "I don't necessarily condemn them...". I wouldn't want to be on a Leon list but I am reassured that I am far to small a fry to be so.
If I were a maker of such lists I would definitely put on those who mere months ago were extolling the virtues of Putin as a guardian of Christian family values. Full confession and penance before the People's Revolutionary Committee, or an appointment with Vasily and his Walther.
Another problem with the compromised settlement approach. There is already talk in Russia that they may need to accept that the re-incorporation of Ukraine may take 30-40 years. In other words Russian imperialists are playing the long game. The idea that this all ends when both sides agree on territory is extremely dubious. A western oriented Ukraine is an existential threat to Putin. Claiming a land corridor to Crimea won't change that I'm afraid. Further attempts to undermine the government in Kiev, make it a failed state or even take more territory would be inevitable.
The problem is that Putin has made his intentions clear. It is not just Ukraine; he wants Russia to control, either directly or politically via satellite states, pretty much the entirety of eastern Europe.
This is why so many neighbouring and nearby states (e.g. Poland, Lithuania, Estonia etc) are busy sending kit to Ukraine. They're well aware Putin wants to destroy their democracies.
It's why I argue so strongly (and hopefully mostly politely) against Nick Palmers and Dura_Ace's view on this. Russia will always find a reason, an excuse, for their expansive imperialism. Victim-blaming is just playing into Putin's hands.
Certainly under the current leadership. I have some hope for the next generation of Russians. The dominance of Putin and a bunch of old farts from the KGB can't last forever.
Last December while walking through Wells town centre I met a man taking his alpaca for a walk
I've seen ferrets on leads, but the one that surprised me recently was a bloke strolling along with an owl.
I once saw a man walking his parrots in Brompton cemetery.
Thought I had a pic on Facebook..
Beautiful plumage, ain't it?
Just letting you know, we have done stations of the cross, I am now eating hot cross buns with my dad WATCHING Yorkshire cricket on telly on a live YouTube feed my dad has subscribed to!
Two England stars batting sensibly at the moment, deficit a mere 174 and King Harry Brook in next 😀
I was just thinking, you must be happy that Yorkshire haven't lost any more wickets this morning. Malan and Lyth looking ominously set. They might even get Yorkshire past the follow on...
Moment a confused looking Biden sticks out his hand and appears to shake thin air after falsely claiming in speech that he had also been a 'full professor' at UPenn for four years
Never mind that. Back to Boris. From your Mail story about Biden:-
The president was named Benjamin Franklin Presidential Practice Professor at Penn in 2017 He collected nearly a million dollars from the school over three years for giving about a dozen public appearances
That is what I mean when I say Boris will be up for appointment as a "moosehead professor" at a well-endowed American university. Minimal obligation for a lot of money. A couple of lectures on Pericles in relation to Westminster and jobs a good'un.
Russia needs humiliation: they need to lose in Ukraine, and be seen to lose
This Manichean view of the conflict needs contextualisation. What would such a loss, that would be impossible to obfuscate, look like? Pushing the Russians back to the 2014 border?
You call it a 'Manichean' view. I am usually a shades-of-grey person, but I find it really, really difficult to do anything other than put the Russian regime fully in the 'evil' camp and Ukraine in the 'good' camp.
Do you differ? Do you think the Russian regime are the good guys? Do you think the Ukrainians have brought the death and destruction on themselves? How do you get shades-of-grey out of what Russia has done?
I have here a little list. Of PB-ers who ever-so-slightly want Russia to win, but are just too embarrassed to admit it out loud. You can spot them as they always over-estimate Russia’s military prowess, or they want a “peace now on present borders”, and they are super keen to NOT humiliate Putin. On PB it’s
~Whilst all of you who are on the side of the angels in the war root out evil doers and wrong-uns (Leon's list earlier LOL) I have just stuck £100 on Labour taking Barnet at 5/6 with ladbrokes.
Were you disappointed not to make the list? You always struck me as far, far too sensible to fall for Putin's guff unlike the others.
Nah - I am pragmatic though and think a diplomatic solution is needed sooner than later So not sure sinking russian warships whilst understandable is a cause for optimism longer term. As for "lists" it is far better to play the ball not the man and as a anti establishment sort of guy I am always wary of "lists" . Division is never has good as cooperation , good is never pure , evil is a unhelpful label
"evil is an unhelpful label"
Sure, what do you call Russia's actions then, and the actions of many of its soldiers? A little naughty? Non-ideal? A bit off? regrettable?
There comes a time when you have to call something what it is. Plenty of people call historic imperialism evil; what we are seeing now is modern-day imperialism, with a healthy dose of what looks remarkable like fascism thrown in.
It strikes me that the Rwandan deal could backfire on the government. It seems pretty half-baked, and is reminiscent of a similar 'oven-ready' deal a couple of years back, also announced for political expediency. It will only succeed if it reduces the number of cross-channel refugees significantly, and that depends on effective implementation - highly doubtful via the Home Office.
It seems to be assumed that this red meat policy was designed to distract from partygate. I suspect that the timing of the announcement was more to do with a) distracting from the large number of migrant crossings we'll get this week now the weather has turned, and b) distracting from the significant travel problems expected over this weekend.
I haven't commented on the substance of the Rwandan policy itself, because I find every single aspect of it beyond the pale. Very little makes me angry - this did.
You prefer to encourage people to close on dangerous rafts and are willing to accept the inevitable casualties?
Where did I say that? I prefer a humanitarian, sensible, well-managed refugee policy that respects other human beings and provides well-organised routes for genuine asylum seekers. I also prefer a system whereby asylum applications are processed in weeks rather than months or years.
This is not about asylum seekers. It only applies to single adult men (ie prime category economic migrants)
Single adult men can be seeking asylum too. Single adult men can be tortured by totalitarian regimes. Single adult men can be at risk of being shot on sight. Single adult men can be locked up without trial. The largest group of single adult men crossing the Channel, IIRC, are from Syria. Do you doubt that people coming from Syria are fleeing war and persecution?
Moment a confused looking Biden sticks out his hand and appears to shake thin air after falsely claiming in speech that he had also been a 'full professor' at UPenn for four years
Never mind that. Back to Boris. From your Mail story about Biden:-
The president was named Benjamin Franklin Presidential Practice Professor at Penn in 2017 He collected nearly a million dollars from the school over three years for giving about a dozen public appearances
That is what I mean when I say Boris will be up for appointment as a "moosehead professor" at a well-endowed American university. Minimal obligation for a lot of money. A couple of lectures on Pericles in relation to Westminster and jobs a good'un.
This is what my daughter and I have both been suffering from for the last 6 months or so. My daughter is now just about back to normal but for me it is still very severe. Red wine, coffee, anything with mint. All are absolutely foul and at there is a constant taste of rancid butter 24/7.
judging by my daughters progress I have another 2 or so months to go. Its bloody depressing sometimes especially when I am such a foodie.
It strikes me that the Rwandan deal could backfire on the government. It seems pretty half-baked, and is reminiscent of a similar 'oven-ready' deal a couple of years back, also announced for political expediency. It will only succeed if it reduces the number of cross-channel refugees significantly, and that depends on effective implementation - highly doubtful via the Home Office.
It seems to be assumed that this red meat policy was designed to distract from partygate. I suspect that the timing of the announcement was more to do with a) distracting from the large number of migrant crossings we'll get this week now the weather has turned, and b) distracting from the significant travel problems expected over this weekend.
I haven't commented on the substance of the Rwandan policy itself, because I find every single aspect of it beyond the pale. Very little makes me angry - this did.
You prefer to encourage people to close on dangerous rafts and are willing to accept the inevitable casualties?
Where did I say that? I prefer a humanitarian, sensible, well-managed refugee policy that respects other human beings and provides well-organised routes for genuine asylum seekers. I also prefer a system whereby asylum applications are processed in weeks rather than months or years.
This is not about asylum seekers. It only applies to single adult men (ie prime category economic migrants)
Single adult men can be seeking asylum too. Single adult men can be tortured by totalitarian regimes. Single adult men can be at risk of being shot on sight. Single adult men can be locked up without trial. The largest group of single adult men crossing the Channel, IIRC, are from Syria. Do you doubt that people coming from Syria are fleeing war and persecution?
*claim* they are from Syria.
I believe that Cameron had the right policy: go to the refugee camps and extract people who need our support from there
OT I'm going out on a limb here in predicting the final Sue Gray report will not be published this week, as had been rumoured.
On the BBC news someone said it couldn't be published for a few weeks due to some longstanding rules about the civil service not doing anything that could influence 'politics' in the weeks before local elections. This looks like it might be the kind of thing they were talking about :
Russia needs humiliation: they need to lose in Ukraine, and be seen to lose
This Manichean view of the conflict needs contextualisation. What would such a loss, that would be impossible to obfuscate, look like? Pushing the Russians back to the 2014 border?
You call it a 'Manichean' view. I am usually a shades-of-grey person, but I find it really, really difficult to do anything other than put the Russian regime fully in the 'evil' camp and Ukraine in the 'good' camp.
Do you differ? Do you think the Russian regime are the good guys? Do you think the Ukrainians have brought the death and destruction on themselves? How do you get shades-of-grey out of what Russia has done?
I have here a little list. Of PB-ers who ever-so-slightly want Russia to win, but are just too embarrassed to admit it out loud. You can spot them as they always over-estimate Russia’s military prowess, or they want a “peace now on present borders”, and they are super keen to NOT humiliate Putin. On PB it’s
Moment a confused looking Biden sticks out his hand and appears to shake thin air after falsely claiming in speech that he had also been a 'full professor' at UPenn for four years
In a few years time, I am sure we are going to find out that he really wasn't with most of the time aren't we. Remember they heavily shielded him from normal campaign duties during the campaign under the guise of covid.
Certainly hard to see him coping with the rigours of a proper campaign.
Let's hope his wife can persuade him it is time to hang up his spurs. He's done his job.
OT I'm going out on a limb here in predicting the final Sue Gray report will not be published this week, as had been rumoured.
On the BBC news someone said it couldn't be published for a few weeks due to some longstanding rules about the civil service not doing anything that could influence 'politics' in the weeks before local elections. This looks like it might be the kind of thing they were talking about :
Yes, we're in pre-election purdah. It's not as serious as before a general election but you shouldn't announce or do anything that isn't business as usual
OT I'm going out on a limb here in predicting the final Sue Gray report will not be published this week, as had been rumoured.
On the BBC news someone said it couldn't be published for a few weeks due to some longstanding rules about the civil service not doing anything that could influence 'politics' in the weeks before local elections. This looks like it might be the kind of thing they were talking about :
Yes, we're in pre-election purdah. It's not as serious as before a general election but you shouldn't announce or do anything that isn't business as usual
Which begs the question, is criticism of this particular governments conduct not business as usual.....
It strikes me that the Rwandan deal could backfire on the government. It seems pretty half-baked, and is reminiscent of a similar 'oven-ready' deal a couple of years back, also announced for political expediency. It will only succeed if it reduces the number of cross-channel refugees significantly, and that depends on effective implementation - highly doubtful via the Home Office.
It seems to be assumed that this red meat policy was designed to distract from partygate. I suspect that the timing of the announcement was more to do with a) distracting from the large number of migrant crossings we'll get this week now the weather has turned, and b) distracting from the significant travel problems expected over this weekend.
I haven't commented on the substance of the Rwandan policy itself, because I find every single aspect of it beyond the pale. Very little makes me angry - this did.
You prefer to encourage people to close on dangerous rafts and are willing to accept the inevitable casualties?
Where did I say that? I prefer a humanitarian, sensible, well-managed refugee policy that respects other human beings and provides well-organised routes for genuine asylum seekers. I also prefer a system whereby asylum applications are processed in weeks rather than months or years.
This is not about asylum seekers. It only applies to single adult men (ie prime category economic migrants)
Single adult men can be seeking asylum too. Single adult men can be tortured by totalitarian regimes. Single adult men can be at risk of being shot on sight. Single adult men can be locked up without trial. The largest group of single adult men crossing the Channel, IIRC, are from Syria. Do you doubt that people coming from Syria are fleeing war and persecution?
Not from France, they're not.
According to a number of reputable refugee organisations, conditions for refugees in Calais are intolerable.
Which means that part of France is a failed state.
OT I'm going out on a limb here in predicting the final Sue Gray report will not be published this week, as had been rumoured.
On the BBC news someone said it couldn't be published for a few weeks due to some longstanding rules about the civil service not doing anything that could influence 'politics' in the weeks before local elections. This looks like it might be the kind of thing they were talking about :
Yes, we're in pre-election purdah. It's not as serious as before a general election but you shouldn't announce or do anything that isn't business as usual
Smolensk officials and local activists have brought heavy machinery to the Polish military cemetery in Katyn and threatened to destroy it in response to the "demolition of Soviet monuments in Poland". They've also started a petition to resolve the "Katyn issue" once and for all.
Russia needs humiliation: they need to lose in Ukraine, and be seen to lose
This Manichean view of the conflict needs contextualisation. What would such a loss, that would be impossible to obfuscate, look like? Pushing the Russians back to the 2014 border?
You call it a 'Manichean' view. I am usually a shades-of-grey person, but I find it really, really difficult to do anything other than put the Russian regime fully in the 'evil' camp and Ukraine in the 'good' camp.
Do you differ? Do you think the Russian regime are the good guys? Do you think the Ukrainians have brought the death and destruction on themselves? How do you get shades-of-grey out of what Russia has done?
I have here a little list. Of PB-ers who ever-so-slightly want Russia to win, but are just too embarrassed to admit it out loud. You can spot them as they always over-estimate Russia’s military prowess, or they want a “peace now on present borders”, and they are super keen to NOT humiliate Putin. On PB it’s
Burnley gave Dyche £21m (net) to spend since the start of the summer 2017 transfer window. Investment in the squad was chronically low,yet he kept them in the PL for 6 seasons & even qualified for Europa League. His miraculous overachievement will go down in the PL history books.
On the theme of local elections, there doesn't appear to be a Labour candidate for my ward (on the south coast), which is slightly strange as in 2021 the Labour candidate came second. Perhaps Nick Palmer knows what in percentage of available seats is there a Labour candidate?
In other news, my son has tested positive for Covid. He has a cough and runny nose but seems to have a healthy appetite. I am concerned as he is hemiplegic but he doesn't seem to come under the extremely at risk categories that are eligible for special treatment. I feel a bit rough but have tested negative.
Who do Britons want to win the French presidential election?
All Britons: Macron 37% / Le Pen 19%
Con voters: Macron 24% / Le Pen 37% Lab voters: Macron 53% / Le Pen 8%
Wow. A large Conservative majority (of those with a view) for Le Pen? The party really has moved away from One Nation Conservatism.
hmmm
Id interpret that differently
Con = anyone but Macron Lab = anyone but LePen
The average british voter is unlikely to have much idea what either is running with as policies
I beg to differ. Le Pen is a very well-known name in the UK by the standards of knowledge of French politics. From the lady's father, too. Many of those Tory voters know full well what they are going for.
It’s been all rather quiet on the sanctions front recently, save for the odd impounded yacht.
Temperatures across Western Europe are in the teens and early 20s, and blossom is on the trees. A good time to ban Russian gas. There’s a whole summer to stock up on alternatives.
Russia needs to run out of money. That’s how it lost the Cold War, it’s what led to several army mutinies in its history and would have lost it WW2 had the USA not kept it financially afloat.
Who do Britons want to win the French presidential election?
All Britons: Macron 37% / Le Pen 19%
Con voters: Macron 24% / Le Pen 37% Lab voters: Macron 53% / Le Pen 8%
Wow. A large Conservative majority (of those with a view) for Le Pen? The party really has moved away from One Nation Conservatism.
hmmm
Id interpret that differently
Con = anyone but Macron Lab = anyone but LePen
The average british voter is unlikely to have much idea what either is running with as policies
I beg to differ. Le Pen is a very well-known name in the UK by the standards of knowledge of French politics. From the lady's father, too. Many of those Tory voters know full well what they are going for.
Do they? I clearly follow politics a lot closer than your average bear and I don't really know. Macron, some further reform of state and private sector rules over employment, pensions etc. Le Pen, I don't really know...has ditched the wanting to leave EU, I presume stronger immigration rules, I don't know what policies she is standing on in terms of public and private sector. I am going to guess French equivalent of "levelling up" populism, but I couldn't give you any concrete policy.
~Whilst all of you who are on the side of the angels in the war root out evil doers and wrong-uns (Leon's list earlier LOL) I have just stuck £100 on Labour taking Barnet at 5/6 with ladbrokes.
Were you disappointed not to make the list? You always struck me as far, far too sensible to fall for Putin's guff unlike the others.
Nah - I am pragmatic though and think a diplomatic solution is needed sooner than later So not sure sinking russian warships whilst understandable is a cause for optimism longer term. As for "lists" it is far better to play the ball not the man and as a anti establishment sort of guy I am always wary of "lists" . Division is never has good as cooperation , good is never pure , evil is a unhelpful label
When a nation chooses to invade its neighbours then the only way to get a sustainable diplomatic solution is to defeat them militarily. Then a sustainable solution can be imposed.
There will be a time when diplomacy is required again and that will be either when Russia achieves its dominance, or when Russia is defeated. The more Russian warships at the bottom of the ocean, the more hope there is for the latter solution leading to a sustainable peace in the future where Russia is scared of ever repeating such a folly again.
The Kyiv Independent @KyivIndependent · 46m ⚡️ Washington Post: Russia warns US to stop arming Ukraine.
The Washington Post reported that it had received a copy of a diplomatic note sent by Russia. In the note, Russia claimed that US & NATO shipments of weapons to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences.”
Who do Britons want to win the French presidential election?
All Britons: Macron 37% / Le Pen 19%
Con voters: Macron 24% / Le Pen 37% Lab voters: Macron 53% / Le Pen 8%
Wow. A large Conservative majority (of those with a view) for Le Pen? The party really has moved away from One Nation Conservatism.
hmmm
Id interpret that differently
Con = anyone but Macron Lab = anyone but LePen
The average british voter is unlikely to have much idea what either is running with as policies
I beg to differ. Le Pen is a very well-known name in the UK by the standards of knowledge of French politics. From the lady's father, too. Many of those Tory voters know full well what they are going for.
And Macron isnt ?
The con are backing a woman with a corbynite economic policy and Lab an investment banker who sucks up to international finance and openly admits he likes pissing off poorer voters.
You cant judge the electorate by PB geek standards
Who do Britons want to win the French presidential election?
All Britons: Macron 37% / Le Pen 19%
Con voters: Macron 24% / Le Pen 37% Lab voters: Macron 53% / Le Pen 8%
Wow. A large Conservative majority (of those with a view) for Le Pen? The party really has moved away from One Nation Conservatism.
How many of those asked know anything about ale Pen other than she is not Macron? I suspect a lot of it is anti Macron votes as he has nor endeared himself to the U.K. in the last couple of years. Conceivably his quasi-effective nonsense cost lives.
Who do Britons want to win the French presidential election?
All Britons: Macron 37% / Le Pen 19%
Con voters: Macron 24% / Le Pen 37% Lab voters: Macron 53% / Le Pen 8%
Wow. A large Conservative majority (of those with a view) for Le Pen? The party really has moved away from One Nation Conservatism.
hmmm
Id interpret that differently
Con = anyone but Macron Lab = anyone but LePen
The average british voter is unlikely to have much idea what either is running with as policies
I beg to differ. Le Pen is a very well-known name in the UK by the standards of knowledge of French politics. From the lady's father, too. Many of those Tory voters know full well what they are going for.
Le Pen is quite hard to place in UK politics. I don't think she is equivalent to a Nick Griffin BNP type. Perhaps a cross between Farage and Patel, but I don't have much confidence in that comparison.
I think it fair to say that the average UK voter has reasonable name recognition of Le Pen, and knows she is right wing, but not a good grasp of where on the spectrum.
Macron I would have much more confidence in placing as a French Blairite.
Who do Britons want to win the French presidential election?
All Britons: Macron 37% / Le Pen 19%
Con voters: Macron 24% / Le Pen 37% Lab voters: Macron 53% / Le Pen 8%
Wow. A large Conservative majority (of those with a view) for Le Pen? The party really has moved away from One Nation Conservatism.
hmmm
Id interpret that differently
Con = anyone but Macron Lab = anyone but LePen
The average british voter is unlikely to have much idea what either is running with as policies
I beg to differ. Le Pen is a very well-known name in the UK by the standards of knowledge of French politics. From the lady's father, too. Many of those Tory voters know full well what they are going for.
And Macron isnt ?
The con are backing a woman with a corbynite economic policy and Lab an investment banker who sucks up to international finance and openly admits he likes pissing off poorer voters.
You cant judge the electorate by PB geek standards
I think a lot of Labour voters who say Macron might get a bit of a shock when they realise he is standing on a platform of wanting to reduce employee rights and pensions, to make French businesses more flexible including making it easier to hire and fire.
I think they were sold a dodgy relic. I’d be looking for a refund.
About as fake as the Russian Patriarch (and KGB bastard) Kirill´s own piety I should think. Indeed I beleive that the Moscow Patriarchy is gong to be expelled from the WCC, which is a happy thought on an otherwise sombre Good Friday.
The Kyiv Independent @KyivIndependent · 46m ⚡️ Washington Post: Russia warns US to stop arming Ukraine.
The Washington Post reported that it had received a copy of a diplomatic note sent by Russia. In the note, Russia claimed that US & NATO shipments of weapons to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences.”
Who do Britons want to win the French presidential election?
All Britons: Macron 37% / Le Pen 19%
Con voters: Macron 24% / Le Pen 37% Lab voters: Macron 53% / Le Pen 8%
Wow. A large Conservative majority (of those with a view) for Le Pen? The party really has moved away from One Nation Conservatism.
hmmm
Id interpret that differently
Con = anyone but Macron Lab = anyone but LePen
The average british voter is unlikely to have much idea what either is running with as policies
I beg to differ. Le Pen is a very well-known name in the UK by the standards of knowledge of French politics. From the lady's father, too. Many of those Tory voters know full well what they are going for.
Le Pen is quite hard to place in UK politics. I don't think she is equivalent to a Nick Griffin BNP type. Perhaps a cross between Farage and Patel, but I don't have much confidence in that comparison.
I think it fair to say that the average UK voter has reasonable name recognition of Le Pen, and knows she is right wing, but not a good grasp of where on the spectrum.
Macron I would have much more confidence in placing as a French Blairite.
The Kyiv Independent @KyivIndependent · 46m ⚡️ Washington Post: Russia warns US to stop arming Ukraine.
The Washington Post reported that it had received a copy of a diplomatic note sent by Russia. In the note, Russia claimed that US & NATO shipments of weapons to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences.”
thw war needs to end now - you cannot supply weapons forever - even taking away the large risk of it escalating into a nuclear war they are prolonging a killing of both sides when eventually a solution will have to be found. People on here can go on forever about being on the side of good and making lists and sharing twitter feeds of a russian plane being shot down but no good being good if dead or your child is dead
~Whilst all of you who are on the side of the angels in the war root out evil doers and wrong-uns (Leon's list earlier LOL) I have just stuck £100 on Labour taking Barnet at 5/6 with ladbrokes.
Were you disappointed not to make the list? You always struck me as far, far too sensible to fall for Putin's guff unlike the others.
Nah - I am pragmatic though and think a diplomatic solution is needed sooner than later So not sure sinking russian warships whilst understandable is a cause for optimism longer term. As for "lists" it is far better to play the ball not the man and as a anti establishment sort of guy I am always wary of "lists" . Division is never has good as cooperation , good is never pure , evil is a unhelpful label
When a nation chooses to invade its neighbours then the only way to get a sustainable diplomatic solution is to defeat them militarily. Then a sustainable solution can be imposed.
There will be a time when diplomacy is required again and that will be either when Russia achieves its dominance, or when Russia is defeated. The more Russian warships at the bottom of the ocean, the more hope there is for the latter solution leading to a sustainable peace in the future where Russia is scared of ever repeating such a folly again.
The Kyiv Independent @KyivIndependent · 46m ⚡️ Washington Post: Russia warns US to stop arming Ukraine.
The Washington Post reported that it had received a copy of a diplomatic note sent by Russia. In the note, Russia claimed that US & NATO shipments of weapons to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences.”
thw war needs to end now - you cannot supply weapons forever - even taking away the large risk of it escalating into a nuclear war they are prolonging a killing of both sides when eventually a solution will have to be found. People on here can go on forever about being on the side of good and making lists and sharing twitter feeds of a russian plane being shot down but no good being good if dead or your child is dead
The war either ends with Russia defeated, or Ukraine defeated.
If you're against us supplying weapons to Ukraine, if you're against Russian military assets being destroyed, then you're implicitly in favour of Ukraine's defeat.
We don't need to supply weapons forever, only until Russia surrenders.
The Kyiv Independent @KyivIndependent · 46m ⚡️ Washington Post: Russia warns US to stop arming Ukraine.
The Washington Post reported that it had received a copy of a diplomatic note sent by Russia. In the note, Russia claimed that US & NATO shipments of weapons to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences.”
thw war needs to end now - you cannot supply weapons forever - even taking away the large risk of it escalating into a nuclear war they are prolonging a killing of both sides when eventually a solution will have to be found. People on here can go on forever about being on the side of good and making lists and sharing twitter feeds of a russian plane being shot down but no good being good if dead or your child is dead
what if the peace option means having your daughter raped in front of you and then you and her being shot. Do those deaths not count ?
~Whilst all of you who are on the side of the angels in the war root out evil doers and wrong-uns (Leon's list earlier LOL) I have just stuck £100 on Labour taking Barnet at 5/6 with ladbrokes.
Were you disappointed not to make the list? You always struck me as far, far too sensible to fall for Putin's guff unlike the others.
Nah - I am pragmatic though and think a diplomatic solution is needed sooner than later So not sure sinking russian warships whilst understandable is a cause for optimism longer term. As for "lists" it is far better to play the ball not the man and as a anti establishment sort of guy I am always wary of "lists" . Division is never has good as cooperation , good is never pure , evil is a unhelpful label
When a nation chooses to invade its neighbours then the only way to get a sustainable diplomatic solution is to defeat them militarily. Then a sustainable solution can be imposed.
There will be a time when diplomacy is required again and that will be either when Russia achieves its dominance, or when Russia is defeated. The more Russian warships at the bottom of the ocean, the more hope there is for the latter solution leading to a sustainable peace in the future where Russia is scared of ever repeating such a folly again.
i am afraid this is delusional and not realistic
If you think a peaceful diplomatic resolution with Russia without them being defeated militarily first is in order then that is completely delusional and not realistic.
Russia aren't interested in a diplomatic resolution, if they were they wouldn't have started the war. Either they achieve their objectives militarily, or they're defeated, there are no better realistic options available.
If you think a peaceful, diplomatic resolution to war can be achieved without destroying the invading armies assets militarily then I'd love to suggest what it is you're proposing. Should we all sing Kumbayah and hope Putin turns over a new leaf?
The Kyiv Independent @KyivIndependent · 46m ⚡️ Washington Post: Russia warns US to stop arming Ukraine.
The Washington Post reported that it had received a copy of a diplomatic note sent by Russia. In the note, Russia claimed that US & NATO shipments of weapons to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences.”
I think they were sold a dodgy relic. I’d be looking for a refund.
About as fake as the Russian Patriarch (and KGB bastard) Kirill´s own piety I should think. Indeed I beleive that the Moscow Patriarchy is gong to be expelled from the WCC, which is a happy thought on an otherwise sombre Good Friday.
Indeed as it should be.
Had Epping Walk of Witness this morning for Good Friday which went very well, good mix of Churches in attendance, Church of England, Roman Catholic, Methodist and evangelical
I'm not sure why a Russian defeat is delusional. They are doing badly as things stand and that is with fairly half-hearted Nato support for Ukraine. I think Estonia has given more military aid than France? It looks like the US has stepped up support in recent days and hopefully a blurring of the defensive/offensive weapons position.
If the west is REALLY desperate to end the war ASAP then what we need is an embargo on Russian oil and gas.
I think they were sold a dodgy relic. I’d be looking for a refund.
About as fake as the Russian Patriarch (and KGB bastard) Kirill´s own piety I should think. Indeed I beleive that the Moscow Patriarchy is gong to be expelled from the WCC, which is a happy thought on an otherwise sombre Good Friday.
Indeed as it should be.
Had Epping Walk of Witness this morning for Good Friday which went very well, good mix of Churches in attendance, Church of England, Roman Catholic, Methodist and evangelical
I don't get the expressed morality on public show here. You support lies and crimes. We've all witnessed that.
The Kyiv Independent @KyivIndependent · 46m ⚡️ Washington Post: Russia warns US to stop arming Ukraine.
The Washington Post reported that it had received a copy of a diplomatic note sent by Russia. In the note, Russia claimed that US & NATO shipments of weapons to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences.”
thw war needs to end now - you cannot supply weapons forever - even taking away the large risk of it escalating into a nuclear war they are prolonging a killing of both sides when eventually a solution will have to be found. People on here can go on forever about being on the side of good and making lists and sharing twitter feeds of a russian plane being shot down but no good being good if dead or your child is dead
what if the peace option means having your daughter raped in front of you and then you and her being shot. Do those deaths not count ?
State go away is a Putinbot. He doesn't care about Ukrainian deaths except insofar as they can be used as an argument for giving Moscow what it wants.
I think they were sold a dodgy relic. I’d be looking for a refund.
About as fake as the Russian Patriarch (and KGB bastard) Kirill´s own piety I should think. Indeed I beleive that the Moscow Patriarchy is gong to be expelled from the WCC, which is a happy thought on an otherwise sombre Good Friday.
Indeed as it should be.
Had Epping Walk of Witness this morning for Good Friday which went very well, good mix of Churches in attendance, Church of England, Roman Catholic, Methodist and evangelical
Who do Britons want to win the French presidential election?
All Britons: Macron 37% / Le Pen 19%
Con voters: Macron 24% / Le Pen 37% Lab voters: Macron 53% / Le Pen 8%
There they are again, that 20%, same people - Trump, Hard Brexit, now LePen. Will also, if asked, be very keen on the idea of decanting refugees to Rwanda. What a horror show. Should be packed off to Rwanda themselves imo.
I'm not overly surprised by those Melenchon figures. It's a big mistake to view everything through a left right prism. Many of his supporters will obviously vote for the anti-system candidate. Le Pen also seems quite economically leftist too.
I'm not sure why a Russian defeat is delusional. They are doing badly as things stand and that is with fairly half-hearted Nato support for Ukraine. I think Estonia has given more military aid than France? It looks like the US has stepped up support in recent days and hopefully a blurring of the defensive/offensive weapons position.
If the west is REALLY desperate to end the war ASAP then what we need is an embargo on Russian oil and gas.
A Russian defeat is not just non-delusional, it is inevitable. Even if it succeeds in taking 30% of Ukrainian territory (now their best case scenario and something that is dropping week by week), they will not control it because 90% of the Ukrainian population will not accept their rule. The only way Russia wins this is if the West buckles, because otherwise this is another Afghanistan at 10x speed for them.
I'm not sure why a Russian defeat is delusional. They are doing badly as things stand and that is with fairly half-hearted Nato support for Ukraine. I think Estonia has given more military aid than France? It looks like the US has stepped up support in recent days and hopefully a blurring of the defensive/offensive weapons position.
If the west is REALLY desperate to end the war ASAP then what we need is an embargo on Russian oil and gas.
A Russian defeat is not just non-delusional, it is inevitable. Even if it succeeds in taking 30% of Ukrainian territory (now their best case scenario and something that is dropping week by week), they will not control it because 90% of the Ukrainian population will not accept their rule. The only way Russia wins this is if the West buckles, because otherwise this is another Afghanistan at 10x speed for them.
We still need that embargo though. Germany is the block now. Telegraph reporting that all three chairs of foreign and defence related German select committees are now pushing for a block on oil and gas imports from Ru. Scholz is looking an increasing lone voice.
Comments
Some wars are petty, elitist struggles, but not this one. This one is about good and evil. And Putin is evil.
You won’t believe this but some UK separatists promoted the idea that Brexit would make every man jack of HMS Global Britain richer than before.
No one’s proposing to reverse Brexit, so pointing out the failures and broken promises is just pointing out the failures and broken promises. Better still would be some positive suggestions.
FWIW, were it my brief, which it isn’t and never will be, I’d do a deal with the French to take more migrants/refugees (the distinction is not at all a clear one) in return for their dealing with the problem at their end - on a strict performance basis.
I think this government absurdly ungenerous in its current attitudes to would be refugees.
Two England stars batting sensibly at the moment, deficit a mere 174 and King Harry Brook in next 😀
Re cats on leads, this is a funny photo from 1961, as cats were auditioned for the film, The Black Cat.
Offshore detention was only one part of the Australian scheme. They also did tow backs to Indonesia. That could be done by towing the refugees west into international waters and letting them go just outside French territorial limits in lifeboats with just enough fuel for France and nowhere else (as the RAN did off the coast of Indonesia). Johnson just doesn't have the guts for that.
The Australians also have a detention centre on Christmas Island which is outside the Australian Migration Zone. So refugees could be scooped up and housed there without recourse to the legal system while awaiting transportation to the penal colonies on Manus and Nauru. There is nowhere analogous to Christmas Island where the refugees can be interned beyond British law.
So its 33% of the Australian solution administered by people with 10% of the competence.
This is why so many neighbouring and nearby states (e.g. Poland, Lithuania, Estonia etc) are busy sending kit to Ukraine. They're well aware Putin wants to destroy their democracies.
It's why I argue so strongly (and hopefully mostly politely) against Nick Palmers and Dura_Ace's view on this. Russia will always find a reason, an excuse, for their expansive imperialism. Victim-blaming is just playing into Putin's hands.
Moment a confused looking Biden sticks out his hand and appears to shake thin air after falsely claiming in speech that he had also been a 'full professor' at UPenn for four years
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10720467/Anyone-Biden-sticks-hand-appears-shake-air.html
In a few years time, I am sure we are going to find out that he really wasn't with most of the time aren't we. Remember they heavily shielded him from normal campaign duties during the campaign under the guise of covid.
https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/uss-the-sullivans-appears-to-be-sinking-at-buffalo-and-erie-county-naval-and-military-park
True, USS The Sullivans is a museum ship and not an active USN ship, but it's still sad. I hope they manage to refloat and reopen her.
The president was named Benjamin Franklin Presidential Practice Professor at Penn in 2017
He collected nearly a million dollars from the school over three years for giving about a dozen public appearances
That is what I mean when I say Boris will be up for appointment as a "moosehead professor" at a well-endowed American university. Minimal obligation for a lot of money. A couple of lectures on Pericles in relation to Westminster and jobs a good'un.
https://www.gloscricket.co.uk/news/club-legend-david-syd-lawrence-unveiled-as-glos-president/
Given they apologised to him a few months ago for the racist bullying he endured while a player, it's good to see.
His statement is excellent too.
He would never make an ECB exec...
Sure, what do you call Russia's actions then, and the actions of many of its soldiers? A little naughty? Non-ideal? A bit off? regrettable?
There comes a time when you have to call something what it is. Plenty of people call historic imperialism evil; what we are seeing now is modern-day imperialism, with a healthy dose of what looks remarkable like fascism thrown in.
(BTW, I don't agree with Leon's list either.)
I believe that Cameron had the right policy: go to the refugee camps and extract people who need our support from there
https://www.local.gov.uk/our-support/guidance-and-resources/pre-election-period/what-pre-election-period-means-practice
Gardens in both narratives too
Let's hope his wife can persuade him it is time to hang up his spurs. He's done his job.
https://twitter.com/AoDespair/status/1514829969670692868?s=20&t=RryQUJ2UxV-t-gpAfirrCQ
Which means that part of France is a failed state.
https://twitter.com/tadeuszgiczan/status/1514894841309708295
Who do Britons want to win the French presidential election?
All Britons: Macron 37% / Le Pen 19%
Con voters: Macron 24% / Le Pen 37%
Lab voters: Macron 53% / Le Pen 8%
"I have seen what you have done. I know the truth.
I have documents on all of you.
It's all written down. It is all written down on a very fucking long list"
https://twitter.com/PremLeaguePanel/status/1514910701290147852?s=20&t=TLkr9OYTr_YMFtYBDq073A
In other news, my son has tested positive for Covid. He has a cough and runny nose but seems to have a healthy appetite. I am concerned as he is hemiplegic but he doesn't seem to come under the extremely at risk categories that are eligible for special treatment. I feel a bit rough but have tested negative.
Id interpret that differently
Con = anyone but Macron
Lab = anyone but LePen
The average british voter is unlikely to have much idea what either is running with as policies
Temperatures across Western Europe are in the teens and early 20s, and blossom is on the trees. A good time to ban Russian gas. There’s a whole summer to stock up on alternatives.
Russia needs to run out of money. That’s how it lost the Cold War, it’s what led to several army mutinies in its history and would have lost it WW2 had the USA not kept it financially afloat.
There will be a time when diplomacy is required again and that will be either when Russia achieves its dominance, or when Russia is defeated. The more Russian warships at the bottom of the ocean, the more hope there is for the latter solution leading to a sustainable peace in the future where Russia is scared of ever repeating such a folly again.
@KyivIndependent
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46m
⚡️ Washington Post: Russia warns US to stop arming Ukraine.
The Washington Post reported that it had received a copy of a diplomatic note sent by Russia. In the note, Russia claimed that US & NATO shipments of weapons to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences.”
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent
The con are backing a woman with a corbynite economic policy and Lab an investment banker who sucks up to international finance and openly admits he likes pissing off poorer voters.
You cant judge the electorate by PB geek standards
The "Bluekip" stuff is an extrapolation way too far. To the point of being idiotic.
I think it fair to say that the average UK voter has reasonable name recognition of Le Pen, and knows she is right wing, but not a good grasp of where on the spectrum.
Macron I would have much more confidence in placing as a French Blairite.
Although I can predict what his reaction might be. Personally."
ntionalist and socialist
If you're against us supplying weapons to Ukraine, if you're against Russian military assets being destroyed, then you're implicitly in favour of Ukraine's defeat.
We don't need to supply weapons forever, only until Russia surrenders.
Russia aren't interested in a diplomatic resolution, if they were they wouldn't have started the war. Either they achieve their objectives militarily, or they're defeated, there are no better realistic options available.
If you think a peaceful, diplomatic resolution to war can be achieved without destroying the invading armies assets militarily then I'd love to suggest what it is you're proposing. Should we all sing Kumbayah and hope Putin turns over a new leaf?
Macron 54%
Le Pen 46%
Melenchon voters splitting 55% Macron, 45% Le Pen.
Zemmour voters 81% Le Pen, Jadot voters 95% Macron and Pecresse voters splitting Macron 79% Le Pen 21%
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1514924503012454401?s=20&t=fUrMLDS4Q6IcAY4OqzlAWA
Had Epping Walk of Witness this morning for Good Friday which went very well, good mix of Churches in attendance, Church of England, Roman Catholic, Methodist and evangelical
Macron gets his biggest support from Remain voters, 62% of whom want him re elected and LDs, 74% of whom would vote for Macron's re election
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/pop11lm7pd/YouGov - Who Britons want to win French election.pdf
If the west is REALLY desperate to end the war ASAP then what we need is an embargo on Russian oil and gas.
Condemnation
Tried
Here on the stand
With the Book in my hand
Truth on my side
Accusations
Lies
Hand me my sentence
I'll show no repentance
I'll suffer with pride
https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1514900373642874882?s=20&t=-4ZQLhP_EFYyMhn9vS2iRw